←2011-05-30 2011-05-31 2011-06-01→ ↑2011 ↑all
00:00:04 <coppro> work if paid
00:00:07 <coppro> same as usual
00:00:19 <elliott> someone pay me 9 cents to make @
00:03:52 <CakeProp1et> hmm, seems like you can still list it as experience. And with no documented experience, that would be a good way for me to start.
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00:37:22 <pikhq_> elliott: It means that the video was scaled with a scaling algorithm that wasn't interlace-aware.
00:37:29 <pikhq_> elliott: Which *royally* fucks shit up.
00:39:52 <elliott> pikhq_: oh well
00:40:00 <elliott> it was a rip of the first doctor who episodes
00:40:02 <elliott> probably dvd rip
00:40:07 <elliott> it was dvd resolution i thin
00:40:09 <elliott> k
00:40:09 <elliott> BUT
00:40:16 <elliott> the interlacing was really minor
00:40:18 <elliott> and then i found
00:40:18 <elliott> a torrent
00:40:18 <elliott> of
00:40:25 <elliott> including a bunch of reconstructed ones
00:40:57 <pikhq_> elliott: Define "DVD resolution".
00:41:22 <elliott> pikhq_: seven hundred by blah
00:41:27 <elliott> seven hundred and something that is
00:41:34 <pikhq_> There's, uh, 8 possible resolutions.
00:42:31 <elliott> yes yes yes
00:42:33 <elliott> the most common one
00:42:54 <pikhq_> There's 4 resolutions that could be called that.
00:43:13 <pikhq_> 720x576@50i, 704x576@50i, 720x480@60i, 704x480@60i.
00:45:59 <elliott> 720 x 480
00:46:01 <elliott> twenty-five fps
00:46:02 <elliott> happy?
00:46:42 <pikhq_> Not even slightly. That is a very solidly WTF combination of resolution and framerate.
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00:52:39 <quintopia> does 50i mean each line gets updated 25 times a second?
00:52:52 <pikhq> quintopia: Yes.
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00:53:12 <quintopia> then it's probably 50i he means
00:53:30 <pikhq> Except that 720x480 is digital NTSC.
00:53:42 <pikhq> (well, or digital PAL-M)
00:53:46 <pikhq> Which straight-up doesn't *do* 50i.
00:54:41 <quintopia> well, even if it's not a real DVD resolution, it would still be considered DVD quality
00:55:53 <pikhq> 720x480@50i is completely and utterly screwy, though. I think the only way you could get that would be a downscale from 720x576@50i...
00:56:14 <pikhq> And if the downscale was interlace-ignorant, well, there's elliott's issue with yadif.
00:59:01 <elliott> <pikhq_> Not even slightly. That is a very solidly WTF combination of resolution and framerate.
00:59:06 <elliott> well it can't be more than twenty-five fps
00:59:12 <elliott> british tv framerate :P
00:59:13 <elliott> in the sixties
00:59:17 <elliott> black 'n whiiiite
00:59:33 <pikhq> elliott: Except that the resolution is American TV resolution.
00:59:44 <elliott> pikhq: well didn't it use to be different back then...
00:59:54 <elliott> anyway i'm redownloading it all and this copy's avis are much bigger
00:59:56 <elliott> so probably better quality :P
01:00:02 <pikhq> elliott: No, the switch was earlier.
01:00:06 <elliott> its two hundred gigabytes
01:00:07 <elliott> can you believe that
01:00:09 <elliott> two hundred gigabytes
01:00:14 <elliott> well gibibytes even
01:00:42 <pikhq> Oh, wait, they stopped 405-line service in *1985‽*
01:02:47 <pikhq> Anyways, the UK started system I service in 1964... *the year after Doctor Who started*?
01:02:51 <pikhq> The fuck.
01:03:26 <pikhq> Okay, so both 480 *and* 576@50i are weird for that.
01:03:49 <elliott> pikhq: Well, I wouldn't be surprised of anything... this is probably a DVD rip that's then been reconverted badly.
01:03:54 <elliott> And god knows how the DVD itself was resized.
01:03:56 <elliott> This shit is ooooooold.
01:05:23 <pikhq> Hmm. No 1960s episodes exist as original videotape; they only exist as film.
01:05:37 <pikhq> So *already* it's @25p.
01:07:44 <elliott> pikhq: you should archive binge doctor who with us two to three monkeys :D
01:07:48 <elliott> itll take us like two years
01:08:18 <pikhq> Actually, I calculated. Only a bit under a year, at a rate of a serial per day.
01:08:50 <elliott> pikhq: hmm
01:08:52 <elliott> this thing has
01:09:00 <elliott> one hundred fifty nine serials
01:09:03 <elliott> the average serial lasts about two hours
01:09:13 <elliott> so that's
01:09:18 <elliott> 13.25 days of raw footage
01:09:29 <elliott> pikhq: at a serial per day it's only half a year
01:09:44 <elliott> but a serial per day is a pretty intense amount, we'll probably keep that up to start with but definitely not through the whole thing
01:09:55 <elliott> pikhq: oh and i'm ignoring the new series because seriously you could breeze through that in a couple of weeks
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01:09:59 <elliott> which we will of course
01:10:05 <elliott> and Dimensions in Time, the EastEnders crossover
01:10:08 <elliott> and the Jim'll Fix It section
01:10:12 <elliott> pikhq_: logread :P
01:10:38 <elliott> http://www.icir.org/christian/publications/deadline.pdf What.
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01:18:32 <elliott> god
01:18:35 <elliott> i need a faster internets
01:18:36 <elliott> and a bigger disk
01:25:36 <elliott> pikhq_: btw this torrent even includes the reconstructed Shada
01:25:42 <pikhq_> Wow.
01:25:46 <elliott> yeah
01:25:53 <elliott> http://torrentz.eu/122fccaa560242d3c89577d419e9e485d8e22fae
01:25:57 <elliott> insanely completist
01:26:12 <elliott> yeah sure some serials are half mpeg and half avi
01:26:15 <elliott> but the quality of these things is shit anyway
01:26:21 <elliott> considering how much of it will be reconstructed :)
01:29:57 <Gregor> elliott: RThis seems to have every episode; I thought some of the earlier seasons were lost outright, and only a few episodes preserved by recordings or through other shows.
01:30:40 <pikhq_> Gregor: Some of them are labelled "reconstruction".
01:30:43 <pikhq_> Guess what that means?
01:31:01 <Gregor> pikhq_: Presumably at least a little bit more than them not being there at all :P
01:31:16 <elliott> Gregor: Not EVERY, I don't think.
01:31:30 <elliott> Gregor: Wrt recordings, I'll imagine there's a lot of them here.
01:31:32 <pikhq_> elliott: All of the Doctor Who episodes exist in audio format.
01:31:48 <elliott> pikhq_: Yes, but they would not make a blank video with an audio track.
01:31:50 <elliott> That would be ludicrous.
01:32:03 <Gregor> Also that wouldn't be a "reconstruction"
01:32:04 <elliott> One of the most sought-after lost episodes is Part Four of the last William Hartnell serial, The Tenth Planet (1966), which ends with the First Doctor transforming into the Second. The only portion of this in existence, barring a few poor quality silent 8 mm clips, is the few seconds of the regeneration scene, as it was shown on the children's magazine show Blue Peter.
01:32:06 <pikhq_> And I'm pretty sure fans have made "reconstructions" of each.
01:32:12 <elliott> It... has part four here.
01:32:24 <elliott> Listed as "reconstruction".
01:32:28 <elliott> So I guess it's like, a fan animation? :P
01:32:48 <pikhq_> More typically fan pieced-together-photos.
01:32:59 <elliott> Nice X-D
01:33:00 <pikhq_> There's also a lot of photos of each episode.
01:33:01 <Gregor> ... lol
01:33:18 <elliott> Gregor: Don't laugh, it's like a radio show :P
01:33:26 <Gregor> I mean, fair enough, they're working in difficult circumstances, but still ... lol.
01:33:29 <elliott> Sweet, the ENTIRETY of "The Smugglers" is listed as a reconstruction.
01:33:45 <Gregor> And no, it's not like a radio show, it's not like you can just remove the video from a TV show and have a radio show X-D
01:33:47 <elliott> "All four episodes of this serial are considered missing. The soundtrack and telesnaps survive, along with bits of Australian censor footage."
01:33:54 <elliott> So all the hot naked bits survive.
01:34:11 <elliott> Gregor: I don't care, we're still watching them :P
01:34:12 <Gregor> lol
01:34:36 <elliott> Maybe we can read the novelisations simultaneously to figure out what's going on.
01:34:38 <Gregor> So as of what series are they actually all present?
01:35:25 <elliott> Gregor: Between about 1964 and 1973, large amounts of older material stored in the BBC's various video tape and film libraries were either destroyed,[40] wiped or suffered from poor storage which led to severe deterioration from broadcast quality. This included many old episodes of Doctor Who, mostly stories featuring the first two Doctors: William Hartnell & Patrick Troughton. Following consolidations and recoveries the archives are complete fro
01:35:25 <elliott> m the programme's move to colour television (starting from Jon Pertwee's time as the Doctor), although a few Pertwee episodes have required substantial restoration; a handful have been recovered only as black and white films, and several survive in colour only as NTSC copies recovered from North America (a few of which are domestic, off-air Betamax tape recordings, not of transmission quality).[citation needed] In all, 108 of 253 episodes produce
01:35:29 <elliott> d during the first six years (most notably series 3, 4, & 5, from which 90 episodes are missing) of the programme are not held in the BBC's archives.
01:35:44 <elliott> So, all Pertwee episodes onwards survive, although some required substantial restoration and some are only black and white or low-quality colour.
01:35:54 <elliott> Presumably after Pertwee it's all good.
01:36:02 <elliott> Anything after 1973 should be good to go, since the destruction ended then apparently.
01:36:25 <Gregor> I wonder in what universe film studios decided "Well we're done with this, let's just burn this shit."
01:36:54 <elliott> Gregor: The same universe that today didn't really blink an eye at Encyclopedia Dramatica being unilaterally wiped?
01:37:01 <Gregor> Heh
01:37:02 <Gregor> Touche
01:37:09 <elliott> (OK, that has much less... lasting potential, but then they thought old episodes had no lasting potential either.)
01:37:32 <elliott> EVEN IRC CHANNELS ARE AT RISK
01:37:41 <Gregor> Dun dun DUN
01:38:22 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_missing_episodes
01:38:25 <elliott> "There are 27 incomplete Doctor Who serials, with 108 of 253 episodes from the first six years of the programme missing."
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01:39:46 <elliott> Gregor: Seems the BBC has released similar stills-plus-audio "reconstructions" :P
01:40:13 <Gregor> Super :P
01:40:36 <elliott> I sure hope they've mixed in the few seconds of regeneration footage into The Tenth Planet.
01:40:42 <elliott> IT WILL BE RUINED WITHOUT IT
01:41:12 <elliott> "This is reflected in the nature of the surviving episodes – Seasons 1 and 2, the most widely-sold abroad of the 1960s era, are missing only nine and two episodes respectively. Most of the episodes probably survived due to a late sale in 1973 to Algeria, which is believed to have returned their copies to BBC Enterprises after their rights to broadcast them had expired, shortly before the end of the junkings."
01:41:27 <elliott> "Of all the series shown by the Corporation throughout the 1960s which had runs of significant length, only Steptoe and Son can be said to have a better survival record [...]"
01:41:49 <elliott> Gregor: Apparently all seventies episodes survive, so there's only... seven years with gaps :P
01:41:58 <elliott> Seven years that will pass rather quickly :P
01:41:59 <Gregor> Yesssssssssssssssssss :P
01:42:04 <Gregor> lol
01:42:08 <elliott> (Consider that one serial is like four weeks.)
01:42:10 <elliott> (And only about two hours.)
01:42:48 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/07/Fury_from_the_Deep.JPG "Bill Burridge as Mr. Quill, in a scene censored by the Australian Film Censorship Board from the missing serial Fury from the Deep."
01:42:56 <elliott> IT'S JUST TOO SCAR
01:42:58 <elliott> IT'S JUST TOO SCARY
01:43:37 <elliott> "Episodes 5 and 10 came from an ex-BBC property which had been purchased by a LDS Church group in the early 1980s, who had come across the films when tidying the basement and subsequently offered them back to the Corporation."
01:43:40 <elliott> MORMONS
01:43:51 <elliott> This article is amazing :P
01:44:56 <Gregor> Bahahaha, the censor stuff is pretty great.
01:45:11 <Gregor> The only surviving scenes are those which were cut for Australia ... that's just bizarre X-D
01:45:23 <elliott> Doctor Who: The SCARIEST Moments
01:45:33 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Invasion_reconstruct.jpg "An example of a Loose Cannon reconstruction from The Invasion, with rolling subtitles to indicate action not obvious from the audio track."
01:45:41 <elliott> OK that's way better than just stills and audio :P
01:46:00 <elliott> "Since the late 1990s, reconstructions of the missing serials have been made by fan groups such as Loose Cannon Productions, who distribute them free.[34] These "recons" are based on the directors' original camera scripts, and use a combination of the surviving soundtracks, surviving footage, photographs, still images (especially Cura's tele-snaps) and specially-recreated material.[34][35] Although technically infringing copyright, these recons h
01:46:02 <elliott> ave been tolerated by the BBC, provided they are not sold for profit and are only distributed in degradable, non-digital formats such as VHS.[34]"
01:46:07 <elliott> Only distributed in degradable formats.
01:46:11 <elliott> LEARNED OUR LESSON I SEE
01:46:38 <Gregor> ... wow.
01:46:57 <elliott> Gregor: But they're in this torrent, so herp derp I guess nobody is listening to the BBC :P
01:47:11 <Gregor> Torrents rarely try hard to fit with legality X-D
01:47:11 <elliott> Unless these are VHS rips X-D
01:47:33 <elliott> Yeah, but the fans who produce the recons you might think would, given that paragraph :P
01:47:40 <elliott> So these are either VHS tapes or EVIDENCE OF NAUGHTINESS
01:47:43 <elliott> VHS rips, that is
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01:48:29 <elliott> This is an absolutely insane binge, isn't it >_>
01:48:31 <Gregor> I'd actually bet these are VHS rips.
01:48:37 <elliott> Gregor: Oh gawd :P
01:48:46 <Gregor> It's especially insane since I'll bet early Doctor Who was pretty much shit :)
01:49:11 <elliott> Gregor: Hey, An Unearthly Child was really good :P
01:49:24 <elliott> Even the racism!
01:49:32 <elliott> The Cave of Skulls was... less good.
01:49:36 <elliott> Worst cavemen evar
01:50:07 <elliott> (The racism was when the Doctor charmingly compared humans' inability to understand the technobabble that is the TARDIS by analogising us to a Red Indian quote-unquote "savage".)
01:50:16 <elliott> We're all basically indians of the stars dudes
01:50:35 <elliott> Gregor: Anyway, how can I possibly say I enjoy the new series without the decades of context >:)
01:52:22 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_No_Tobacco_Day
01:52:33 <elliott> They should just institute a World No Tobacco Month and suddenly everyone will be cured of their smoking addiction
02:11:32 <pikhq> Gregor: Worse. We've got camera-pointed-at-screen rips.
02:11:38 <elliott> are you serious
02:11:45 <elliott> pikhq: btw "these" was "reconstructed things"
02:11:49 <pikhq> Black-and-white filme cameras pointed at the screen.
02:12:01 <pikhq> Ah. The reconstructions literally are VHS rips.
02:12:26 <elliott> Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
02:12:27 <pikhq> The BBC frowns upon fan groups distributing reconstructions on more permanent media, for reasons I do not understand.
02:12:39 <pikhq> Of course, a torrent of Doctor Who isn't about to give a fuck.
02:12:42 <elliott> Herp derp coopyright infrongement
02:13:03 <elliott> I guess it takes away sales from a hypothetical future BBC reconstruction :P
02:13:21 <pikhq> If, uh, they ever actually *make* them.
02:13:29 <elliott> Well they've made A FEW :P
02:13:37 <pikhq> The closest you can get is official BBC CDs of the audio for most of the episodes.
02:14:24 <pikhq> Shame that they can't really spend money to actually animate the missing episodes.
02:15:06 <elliott> They did for The Invasion :P
02:16:20 <pikhq> Yeah, but that was an oddity...
02:17:07 <elliott> It seems that, since only one of us has a disk that can actually fit all these episodes at once, and is also getting the fastest speed (i.e. just above crawling) on the torrent, we're going to do trans-continental external hard drive mailings in lieu of us all downloading it separately :P
02:19:03 <elliott> For our next trick we'll binge the entirety of Guiding Light.
02:19:04 <elliott> ALL OF IT.
02:19:33 <elliott> That's right, all YEAR AND A HALF of it.
02:19:41 <elliott> That might not even include the radio series :P
02:19:53 <elliott> And it'll be EVEN
02:19:54 <elliott> LESS
02:19:55 <elliott> ENJOYABLE
02:20:01 <elliott> "Not much survives from the radio years, or the first 25 years or so of its TV incarnation, and what does exist is in the form of kinescopes and home video recordings (and vinyls, in the case of the radio years)."
02:20:04 <elliott> DAMMIT
02:20:18 <elliott> pikhq: plz to be salvaging old episodes of bad soap opera
02:21:02 <pikhq> Oh, jesus fuck.
02:21:22 <elliott> pikhq: MUST ARCHIVE BINGE
02:21:58 <CakeProp1et> hmmm
02:22:24 <CakeProp1et> so I need to find an open source project working on something that I can contribute a lot to.. hmmmmm
02:22:42 <elliott> Aren't you going about this totally wrongly
02:22:47 <CakeProp1et> ...no?
02:22:52 <elliott> Why not look for a program you want to use and contribute to that
02:22:57 <elliott> Rather than just looking for something random to contribute to
02:23:27 <CakeProp1et> either way works fine, I'd say.
02:23:41 <elliott> Uhhhhh no
02:25:03 <pikhq> elliott: Next, archive binge Doraemon!
02:25:26 <CakeProp1et> and it's not random. I don't necessarily have to be using something in order to contribute to it. For example, a bookkeeping system. There was another project featured on sourceforge that converted odt to various braile formats. Not something I'd use, but something I wouldn't mind working on.
02:25:31 <elliott> Meh, that's tiny :P
02:25:41 <CakeProp1et> elliott: what's wrong with this approach?
02:26:02 <elliott> CakeProp1et: You can't contribute well to something you don't understand; understanding something you're not actually interested in using is not an easy thing to do.
02:26:07 <pikhq> elliott: Uh, 2,000 episodes. And counting.
02:26:08 <elliott> Putting lots of effort into it is even less feasible.
02:26:28 <CakeProp1et> right, that's why I was thinking of things I understand so I could "randomly" go find a program I could work on.
02:26:32 <elliott> But hey, "GIVE ME SOMETHING TO CODE" is the attitude of shittons of, like, fourteen year old programmers on the interwebs, so maybe I'm just old. ;-P
02:27:36 <elliott> Hmm, I think prog21 actually had a post on this
02:27:57 <elliott> Here it is
02:27:58 <elliott> http://prog21.dadgum.com/80.html
02:28:31 <CakeProp1et> for example, I know a bit about signal processing, text-based games, programming languages, and various internet protocols.
02:28:47 <elliott> Programming in the 21st Century is a good blog.
02:29:37 <CakeProp1et> ah, music is something I know about. notation, theory, etc.
02:30:54 <pikhq> Please, scratch your itches.
02:33:24 <CakeProp1et> now it's just a matter of finding a program that concerns one of these interests, and finding one that is actually in need of some serious work.
02:33:45 <elliott> you could always just write your own
02:33:51 <elliott> rather than working on something broken
02:34:04 <CakeProp1et> ...I do plenty of that. I never finish.
02:34:48 <CakeProp1et> right now I'm working on a Perl script that organizes music, but I think I'm going to move it to C# so I can distribute it in Windows easily.
02:35:06 <elliott> nice, inferior language restricting it to an inferior os
02:35:07 <CakeProp1et> I'm not too far into the Perl version so it's no big deal to switch now.
02:35:33 <CakeProp1et> elliott: C# can run in linux just fine.
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02:36:28 <elliott> CakeProp1et: unless you use too recent .NET features
02:36:33 <elliott> then it doesn't
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02:37:51 <CakeProp1et> well, I think I COULD package my Perl program for Windows, but then I also want to give it a GUI at some point and I'm not really sure if Perl is the right language for that.
02:38:24 <elliott> yeah, it's not a total pain to code in like C# is
02:38:27 <elliott> unsuitable
02:44:19 <CakeProp1et> elliott: I was under the impression that you didn't like Perl.
02:45:10 <elliott> better than C# :)
02:46:22 <CakeProp1et> I think C# is better than everything it is based on, but otherwise isn't great.
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04:19:55 <CakeProphet> anyone here like tabletop games? I've been looking for a group to play Shadowrun via IRC, but no luck so far.
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04:22:34 * Sgeo is always up for Paranoia
04:22:41 <Sgeo> Does that ount as "tabletop"?
04:23:52 <oerjan> well if you use the table for rolling dice...
04:24:29 <CakeProphet> I don't really know what Paranoia is actually..
04:24:53 <oerjan> well good, you are not cleared for that information anyway.
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04:55:51 <CakeProphet> oh look, I'm finding emacs-like key combinations in other programs I use. Like irssi
04:56:13 <CakeProphet> C-a C-k is a great thing type when I'm about to say something stupid. :D
04:57:46 <CakeProphet> (note the irony of the above)
04:58:22 <lament> noted.
05:03:47 <coppro> doesn't work for me due to screen
05:04:20 <pikhq> C-a and C-j is a terrible thing, however.
05:04:24 <pikhq> coppro: C-a C-a.
05:04:30 <pikhq> Erm, C-a a
05:04:45 <oerjan> CakeProphet: C-u is shoter
05:04:54 <oerjan> *shorter
05:04:54 <CakeProphet> oh cool.
05:05:26 <CakeProphet> oerjan: as an American hearing things like "shawty" often, that made perfect sense to me. :)
05:05:38 <oerjan> aw kay
05:06:13 <oerjan> CakeProphet: also, /bind
05:06:43 <CakeProphet> oh nice.
05:09:43 <coppro> pikhq: fun
05:10:34 * oerjan recalls he changed home and end to do scroll_start and scroll_end.
05:10:55 <oerjan> before they just duplicated C-a and C-e
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05:14:25 * pikhq wonders if anyone has Leviticus 19:28 tattooed on them.
05:14:40 <pikhq> "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I /am/ the LORD."
05:14:48 <CakeProphet> hahaha
05:15:02 <CakeProphet> I would. :)
05:15:28 <oerjan> "I put it there in memory of my late girlfriend"
05:15:41 <pikhq> :)
05:15:46 <pikhq> "This scar, too."
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05:18:22 <oerjan> does "for the dead" apply to the part after the comma, or all _all_ tattoos forbidden
05:18:33 <oerjan> *are all
05:18:38 <pikhq> I dunno.
05:18:45 <pikhq> Might as well hit all possibilities.
05:18:53 <lament> people do, even now, tattoo marks for the dead
05:19:05 <CakeProphet> the "any" seems to suggest no tattoos at all.
05:19:19 <lament> (lil wayne)
05:19:22 <pikhq> lament: Well, yes, I'd imagine it's not *too* uncommon for someone to get a tattoo in memoriam, after all.
05:19:46 <CakeProphet> but I don't know, English is a little /too/ esoteric for this channel.
05:19:59 <CakeProphet> especially translated from other languages.
05:20:19 <oerjan> 'But by far the Christian tattooers favorite excuse for disobeying Leviticus 19:28 is the "that means nor print any marks upon you – for the DEAD". It’s ok, as long it’s not for the dead".'
05:20:58 <CakeProphet> like anyone actually follows everything in leviticus..
05:21:09 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Well, except the anti-gay stuff.
05:21:22 <pikhq> That they shout from the rooftops.
05:21:44 <pikhq> oerjan: Strange, I thought the usual excuse was to claim that Jesus made those laws moot.
05:22:07 <Sgeo> Jesus did quite clearly make the Kosher laws moot... and made 0 laws moot...
05:22:08 <coppro> The Jews take that particular law quite seriously
05:22:15 * Sgeo 's head spins
05:22:41 <oerjan> pikhq: that page then goes on to fume further about it
05:22:55 <pikhq> It *is* the Bible.
05:23:09 <pikhq> Land of the vengeful, hating god YHWH.
05:23:22 <CakeProphet> In Shadowrun, there are tatoos that animate and change color. That would be pretty sick.
05:23:50 <coppro> CakeProphet: just do it with nanobots
05:24:00 <CakeProphet> I think that's how they explain it.
05:25:21 <CakeProphet> there's also all kinds of genetically modified implants that are purely cosmetic. cats eats/eyes/tails, oddly pigmented skin, scales, etc.
05:25:45 <CakeProphet> I wonder what conservatives will say then. :)
05:26:28 <pikhq> Eh, with any luck we'll have shoved the lot of them on the B Ark.
05:27:22 <CakeProphet> I would get some photosynthetic skin, and live off of sunlight. For great profit.
05:27:47 <CakeProphet> (but not for great "prophet." ZING!)
05:28:25 <coppro> B Ark?
05:32:37 <oerjan> but then who will clean our telephones! er wait..
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06:52:26 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKy_VTBq0yk
06:52:42 <Phantom_Hoover> This is so stupid it hurts...
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06:55:14 <pikhq_> Let S be the set containing 0 and the successors of the members of S.
06:55:19 <pikhq_> Disproved.
06:55:43 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, ah, but you're using AXIOMATICS which you DON'T UNDERSTAND.
06:57:24 <Patashu> 'mathfoundations'
06:57:26 <Patashu> what is this?
06:57:56 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: *sigh*
06:58:22 <Phantom_Hoover> "I don't understand it therefore noöne does" is a depressingly common fallacy.
06:58:37 <pikhq_> let l = [0..] -- Let S be the set of numbers in the Haskell value l, of type [Integer}.
07:01:02 <pikhq_> I wonder if he is opposed to succ.
07:01:49 <pikhq_> Cause, uh, that implies the existence of an infinite set.
07:02:27 <Phantom_Hoover> I think he's opposed to it on the grounds of the paradoxes of naïve set theory.
07:03:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Which is why he skips from 1900 to 2009 as if everyone suddenly went from "oh god this makes no sense" to "let's use this EVERYWHERE" without anything in between.
07:03:42 <pikhq_> Isn't there a reason we don't use naïve set theory? :P
07:05:20 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, why not inform him about what he's doing wrong?
07:05:27 <Sgeo> Instead of being inflammatory?
07:05:32 <pikhq_> Sgeo: Willful ignorance.
07:05:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, because when confronted with the reasons he was wrong he dismissed them as BASELESS AXIOMATICS WHICH MOST MATHEMATICS NEITHER UNDERSTAND NOR USE
07:06:16 <pikhq_> We're not exactly taking esoteric, impossible details here.
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07:06:44 <Patashu> Isn't it kind of tautological to say a mathematical object doesn't exist
07:06:50 <Patashu> Nothing about maths exists
07:06:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, ZF{C} isn't the most intuitive thing, but he's making essentially the same mistake as my Idiot Chemistry Teacher.
07:07:00 <pikhq_> Patashu: A philosophical point.
07:07:12 <pikhq_> Patashu: He seems far-gone from that.
07:07:13 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKy_VTBq0yk
07:07:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Discuss.
07:07:58 <oerjan> <pikhq_> Isn't there a reason we don't use naïve set theory? :P
07:08:03 <oerjan> russell's paradox
07:08:06 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, yes.
07:08:06 <Patashu> Yup
07:08:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Which is why the man is an idiot for dismissing all set theory because of the failings of naïve.
07:08:30 <pikhq_> oerjan: Yeaaah, I know.
07:08:59 <Phantom_Hoover> The way he presents it is exactly how you'd expect a charlatan to, which suggests that he either knows he's wrong or that he's *really* deluded.
07:09:49 <Patashu> There's no profit in rejecting set theory though
07:11:11 <pikhq_> ... Hmm. If he rejects infinity... Wouldn't that mean he also rejects Turing machines?
07:11:25 <pikhq_> I propose we rip the computer out of his hands.
07:11:46 <pikhq_> And possibly rip his hands out of his hands, too.
07:12:14 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, that's just silly.
07:12:28 <pikhq_> And?
07:12:29 <oerjan> this may surprise you, but your computer is not _actually_ turing-complete, pikhq_
07:12:31 <Patashu> Computers are finite
07:12:35 <Patashu> beaten
07:12:38 <Phantom_Hoover> For one thing, you do not actually need infinite sets for TMs.
07:12:40 <pikhq_> oerjan: LIES AND DECEIT
07:13:20 <pikhq_> Which is why I'm hosting a mirror of the entirety of the Internet.
07:13:27 <oerjan> ic
07:13:50 <Phantom_Hoover> (The control mechanism is entirely finite, and the tape only requires that you generate more tape as the head moves onto blank space.)
07:14:22 <pikhq_> (and by "mirror of the entirety of the Internet", I of course mean "the state each and every portion of the Internet, at each and every multiple of 1 Planck time since the first IMP booted for the first time.")
07:14:31 <pikhq_> s/state/state of/
07:14:53 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Screw your "logic", I have pointless assertions.
07:15:05 <pikhq_> And a lack of sleep.
07:15:07 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq_, SO DO I
07:15:09 <pikhq_> Jeeze, it's 01:15.
07:15:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Except for the lack of sleep part.
07:15:33 <Phantom_Hoover> BUT STILL
07:15:58 <Phantom_Hoover> <Patashu> Nothing about maths exists
07:16:16 <Phantom_Hoover> In before logreading elliott: ultimate ensemble.
07:16:28 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Philosophical debate utterly irrelevant to mathematics. :)
07:16:47 <Patashu> I found a 2 in my bed last night
07:16:52 <Patashu> It wanted to do some multiplication with me
07:16:58 <pikhq_> Hot.
07:17:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Did you oblige it?
07:17:09 <Patashu> No, I'm not oblique
07:20:28 <Phantom_Hoover> ...oh god I'm stuck listening to the Homestuck music again.
07:20:32 <Phantom_Hoover> I had things to do today!
07:21:31 <CakeProphet> `perl $b='$b=%c%s%c;printf$b,39,$b,39;';printf$b,39,$b,39;
07:21:34 <HackEgo> No output.
07:21:37 <CakeProphet> lies
07:21:49 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, you can run Perl on your own computer, you know/
07:21:57 <CakeProphet> nope.
07:22:11 <CakeProphet> I can't run Perl in IRC on my computer without substantial effort.
07:30:25 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, which music?
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07:52:26 <Sgeo> If I don't turn the computer off, I'm not going to go to sleep, am I?
07:54:15 <oerjan> a most likely hypothesis
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08:20:05 <_Alex_50> Hi!
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08:22:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Well that was odd.
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08:46:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow, you slept for a whole 40 minutes or so.
08:48:44 <Sgeo> New plan: Stay awake, sleep later in the day, take melatonin next night
09:03:13 <Phantom_Hoover> <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, which music?
09:03:16 <Phantom_Hoover> All the music.
09:03:18 <Phantom_Hoover> All of it.
09:52:29 <Sgeo> "I am like this huge lesbian." --Andrew Hussie
10:03:34 <Sgeo> Pirates love silly hats. Gregor loves hats. Therefore, Gregor is a pirate.
10:09:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, have you gone crazy from sleep deprivation?
10:09:37 <Sgeo> No, I'm just failing to be funny
10:09:47 <Sgeo> Reading through some of Andrew's Formspring
10:11:19 <Sgeo> And yes, I'm aware that my logic about Gregor and pirates is... is the proper term "not valid"? I know between sound and valid, one is for premises true, logic sensible, the other is for logic sensible, but no comment on premises. I think it's "valid" that doesn't comment on premises
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11:35:46 <Sgeo> Wow, I feel pathetic for not getting the highblood pun until now
11:36:21 <Patashu> pun?
11:36:56 <Sgeo> Patashu, have you read Homestuck?
11:37:05 <Patashu> yes
11:37:32 <Sgeo> Gamzee is a highblood, right? "high"
11:37:41 <Patashu> There's no way that's the pun
11:37:43 <Patashu> I disbelieve
11:38:01 <Sgeo> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005407
11:38:27 <Sgeo> See the first parenthetical note
11:38:36 <Sgeo> Although yes, I know that's the ancestors
11:38:39 <Sgeo> It still applies imo
11:38:55 <Patashu> Hmm, okay, taken
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12:13:53 * Sgeo has a bit of speculation
12:14:10 <Sgeo> Not going to say it for fear of spoileriness
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17:07:30 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WWI-re.png
17:07:41 <Phantom_Hoover> You'd have thought a world war would be less one-sided.
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17:19:02 <Sgeo> Maybe the landmass thing makes it look more one-sided than it was?
17:19:21 <Phantom_Hoover> What landmass thing?
17:19:55 <Sgeo> Just that size of a country doesn't necessarily represent... hmm, not sure
17:20:21 <CakeProphet> it seems that a lot of time was spent bugtesting 20th century warfare, in WWI.
17:22:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Bug #3451: effectiveness of chlorine considerably reduced by client-side exploit with urine-soaked cloth.
17:22:59 <oerjan> Sgeo: an area-preserving map would make russia and canada smaller, but would also make africa, india and brazil larger
17:23:22 <CakeProphet> Bug #3452: 100-man groups inefficient at handling indirect artillery fire
17:25:45 <oerjan> Sgeo: hm i think europe was a larger fraction of world population at that time, not to mention even more technologically superior
17:26:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Bug #3453: clients fail to recover after large explosions nearby.
17:31:33 <CakeProphet> Germany had the advantage as far as technology and the use of modern military tactics, but had a disadvantage in numbers.
17:32:01 <CakeProphet> but then everyone else started catching on.
17:33:53 <CakeProphet> I can't even imagine what conventional warfare looks like now
17:34:11 <Phantom_Hoover> 'Iraq'.
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17:34:25 <CakeProphet> do we just shoot at each other's Predator drones?
17:34:47 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: I don't think that's usually classified as conventional.
17:34:53 <Phantom_Hoover> If it's two advanced nations, it consists of pointing nukes at each other and seeing who flinches first.
17:35:57 <CakeProphet> also nukes no longer fit the definition of conventional. though it is becoming the normal mode of operation, regardless of definition of terms.
17:36:21 <oerjan> If it's two advanced nations, it consists of "proxy wars".
17:36:30 <Phantom_Hoover> That too.
17:38:41 <CakeProphet> I was just wondering, what if we forgot about nukes or had sufficient anti-nuclear defenses so that something like trench warfare existed.. but with modern military technology.
17:39:43 <CakeProphet> pure "what if" question, I guess. I suppose "Woah dude..." would be an appropriate reply.
17:40:17 <Phantom_Hoover> I suppose that's what kind of happens in a proxy war.
17:40:26 <oerjan> does trench warfare work even in a modern conventional war...
17:41:07 <oerjan> don't air forces ruin that completely or something
17:42:40 <CakeProphet> no WWI and WWII had both aircraft and trenches
17:42:57 <CakeProphet> modern aircraft might ruin that, though.
17:42:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Not to nearly the extent we have now.
17:43:03 <CakeProphet> yes.
17:53:22 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsole
17:53:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Is this the best compound?
17:53:30 <Phantom_Hoover> The answer is yes.
17:54:06 <oerjan> well based solely on the name...
17:54:38 <Phantom_Hoover> "When arsole is fused to a benzene ring, this molecule is called arsindole, or benzarsole.[3]"
17:54:56 <olsner> hehe, benzarsole :D
17:55:14 <oerjan> there's a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_chemical_compounds_with_unusual_names
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17:56:03 <oerjan> "It is known that Glenn Seaborg proposed the chemical symbol Pu (from P.U.) for plutonium as a joke, only to find it officially adopted."
17:56:15 <Phantom_Hoover> P.U.?
17:56:40 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.U.
17:56:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Who the hell writes it that way.
17:57:47 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cummingtonite
17:59:02 <CakeProphet> haha, nice.
17:59:59 <CakeProphet> so, did we somehow get to unusual elements from WWII?
18:00:12 <Phantom_Hoover> I'd been meaning to mention that.
18:00:18 <CakeProphet> I guess that's not a far stretch.
18:00:20 <Phantom_Hoover> It had nothing to do with the conversation.
18:01:07 -!- pumpkin has changed nick to copumpkin.
18:01:32 <CakeProphet> I was just wondering if we had traversed the Wikipedia link graph from WWII to strange elements, but I guess not.
18:01:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Strange elements
18:01:49 <Phantom_Hoover> *?
18:01:55 <Phantom_Hoover> ITYM compounds.
18:02:09 <Phantom_Hoover> "Penguinone(3,4,4,5-tetramethylcyclohexa-2,5-dienone), so named because its two-dimensional structure resembles a penguin.[31]"
18:03:05 <CakeProphet> yes, compounds.
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18:18:05 <elliott> 07:05:20: <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, why not inform him about what he's doing wrong?
18:18:07 <elliott> 07:05:27: <Sgeo> Instead of being inflammatory?
18:18:09 <elliott> oops
18:18:11 <elliott> wrong copy
18:18:14 <elliott> 07:06:44: <Patashu> Isn't it kind of tautological to say a mathematical object doesn't exist
18:18:16 <elliott> 07:06:50: <Patashu> Nothing about maths exists
18:18:17 <elliott> (window scrolled as i dragged)
18:18:22 <elliott> platonists would disagree
18:22:55 <CakeProphet> are there any conditions on which mathematical objects exist to platonists?
18:24:07 <CakeProphet> for example, are naive sets real even though they're subject to Russell's paradox?
18:24:30 <elliott> Only consistent objects, presumably
18:24:35 <elliott> As defined by insert-favourite-theory-here
18:25:05 <elliott> But it's a rather vague position :)
18:25:14 <Kustas> what is a mathematical object? do you have a problem with real objects?
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18:30:42 <CakeProphet> I have a problem with all objects. Also, I hate Java.
18:30:58 <oerjan> what did the poor island do to you
18:31:35 <CakeProphet> heh, it had a programming language named after it.
18:52:45 <elliott> whois Kustas
18:52:48 <elliott> oops ;D
18:52:59 <elliott> you've all made me paranoid :<
18:53:05 <elliott> how can i trust any new person not to just be a nickchange of another
18:55:26 <oerjan> just accept the truth of solipsism, and the problem goes away
18:55:54 <Kustas> whois elliott
18:56:03 <elliott> whois yourself
18:56:08 <Gregor> whois alise
18:56:11 <Gregor> whois ehird
18:56:17 <Gregor> whois ehypocrite :P
18:56:22 <elliott> NEVER HEARD OF 'EM
18:56:46 <Gregor> All I've done is drop that pesky 'R' :P
18:57:14 <elliott> AND THE -L, -W, ET
18:57:15 <elliott> CET
18:57:15 <elliott> ER
18:57:16 <elliott> A
18:57:57 <elliott> <Gregor> I am so sorry ;_;
18:58:02 <elliott> TOUGH SHIT.
18:59:12 <elliott> Kustas: hi, welcome to the qualityest channel on irc
18:59:18 <elliott> although the quality part should be obvious
18:59:46 <elliott> i take it you came here from the wiki?
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19:02:34 <Kustas> wrong
19:02:45 <elliott> oh, where then?
19:05:41 <ais523> happy australian mailman reminders day!
19:05:49 <elliott> ais523: [asterisk]mailman mailing list
19:05:56 <elliott> sloppy!
19:06:03 <ais523> meh, I like my version better
19:06:09 <elliott> it's inaccurate ;(
19:06:19 <ais523> besides, it's the software that powers the list that sends the mail, not the list itself
19:06:30 <elliott> yes, but it's /historically/ inaccurate
19:06:33 <elliott> you are misrepresenting this great holiday
19:06:35 <ais523> the software isn't called "mailman mailing list"
19:06:38 <ais523> ah, OK
19:06:43 <elliott> ais523: and that's not how it's parsed
19:06:50 <elliott> the subject line includes "mailing list memberships reminder"
19:07:02 <elliott> it's australian ((mailman mailing list) reminder)s day
19:07:16 <elliott> reminders for the mailing lists, which are powered by mailman
19:07:20 <elliott> making them Mailman mailing lists
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19:13:22 * elliott continues a stupid argument on reddit
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20:04:55 <elliott> pikhq hates qs
20:06:54 <oerjan> remarkable with that nick
20:11:06 <elliott> pik
20:11:09 <elliott> hq (hate qs)
20:11:14 <elliott> h heich/hate
20:11:14 <elliott> qs
20:11:17 <elliott> pikhq hates qs
20:15:14 <cheater_> wat
20:16:07 <pikhq> elliott: Yeah, the final q is just ironic.
20:16:15 <pikhq> </hipster>
20:17:15 -!- Lymia has changed nick to qs.
20:17:15 <elliott> ok pikh
20:17:18 <qs> Hey!
20:17:20 <qs> That's mean.
20:17:33 <elliott> qs are for losers
20:17:56 <qs> :(
20:17:59 <qs> ;-;
20:18:01 * qs runs off
20:18:03 -!- qs has changed nick to Lymia.
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20:18:19 <elliott> Lymia: sorry qs :(
20:20:08 <cheater_> what
20:21:14 <oerjan> i forget whether germans count ü, ä, ö and that sz i cannot type
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20:24:20 <elliott> oerjan: what fixity is (->) again? ;D
20:24:20 <oerjan> clearly so have the germans present
20:24:22 <cheater_> you mean the ss
20:24:55 <oerjan> cheater_: um it's _pronounced_ ess zed, isn't it
20:25:01 <cheater_> no.
20:25:22 <cheater_> in fact, the translit for it is "ss".
20:25:28 <cheater_> for example, Strasse
20:25:51 <oerjan> cheater_: i mean, the _name_ of it
20:26:01 <cheater_> "scharfes s"
20:26:32 <elliott> rude oerjan :(
20:26:35 <cheater_> you're confused because the original glyph for it is a ligature of s and z.
20:26:57 <oerjan> "Its German name is Eszett (IPA: [ʔɛsˈt͡sɛt], lexicalized expression for sz) or scharfes S (IPA: [ˈʃaːfəs ˈʔɛs], sharp S).
20:27:21 <cheater_> yes, right, the name
20:27:26 <cheater_> but it's not pronounced as "sz"
20:28:03 <cheater_> i've never come across people calling it Eszett though, scharfes s is quite common though
20:28:36 <cheater_> any spelling using "sz" was changed to "ss" in one of thousands of grammar reforms
20:28:44 <oerjan> :k (Maybe ~> Erm ->) --let's see if this works
20:28:44 <lambdabot> parse error on input `)'
20:28:49 <oerjan> bah
20:29:08 <elliott> heh
20:29:08 <oerjan> :k (Maybe ~> Erm -> Test) --let's see if this works
20:29:09 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type variable `~>'
20:29:09 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Erm'
20:29:09 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Test'
20:29:58 <oerjan> :k (Maybe `Maybe` Erm -> Test) --let's see if this works
20:29:59 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Erm'
20:29:59 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Test'
20:30:11 <oerjan> :k (Maybe `Maybe` Maybe -> Maybe) --let's see if this works
20:30:12 <lambdabot> `Maybe' is applied to too many type arguments
20:30:12 <lambdabot> In the type `Maybe Maybe Maybe -> Maybe'
20:30:21 <elliott> heh
20:30:26 <elliott> try Either
20:30:33 <elliott> :k (Maybe `Either` Maybe -> Maybe)
20:30:34 <lambdabot> `Maybe' is not applied to enough type arguments
20:30:34 <lambdabot> The first argument of `Either' should have kind `*',
20:30:34 <lambdabot> but `Maybe' has kind `* -> *'
20:30:39 <elliott> :k (Maybe () `Either` Maybe () -> Maybe ()
20:30:40 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
20:30:40 <elliott> :k (Maybe () `Either` Maybe () -> Maybe ())
20:30:41 <lambdabot> *
20:30:42 <oerjan> :k (Maybe -> Maybe `Maybe` Maybe) --let's see if this works
20:30:43 <lambdabot> `Maybe' is not applied to enough type arguments
20:30:43 <lambdabot> Expected kind `??', but `Maybe' has kind `* -> *'
20:30:43 <lambdabot> In the type `Maybe -> Maybe Maybe Maybe'
20:30:55 <elliott> :k (Maybe () -> Maybe () `Either` Maybe ())
20:30:56 <lambdabot> *
20:30:57 <oerjan> elliott: i'm not interested in having it type
20:31:02 <elliott> I don't think this is going to work, joeran
20:31:04 <elliott> oerjan: fair nuff
20:31:11 <oerjan> i'm just trying to find the fixity
20:31:37 <elliott> i don't think it will tell you
20:31:48 <oerjan> it would if i could get a fixity error
20:31:57 <elliott> are you sure that it's even the same parser
20:32:14 <oerjan> well it has _infix_ types...
20:33:25 <oerjan> :k (Int -> Int `State` Int) --let's see if this works
20:33:26 <lambdabot> *
20:33:53 <oerjan> hm...
20:34:06 <oerjan> :t undefined :: (Int -> Int `State` Int)
20:34:06 <lambdabot> Int -> State Int Int
20:34:25 <oerjan> :t undefined :: (Int `State` Int -> Int)
20:34:26 <lambdabot> State Int Int -> Int
20:34:39 <oerjan> ok so lower than the default
20:34:45 <elliott> that's a bit obvious :)
20:34:59 <elliott> well at least to me
20:35:11 <oerjan> but without type sections it's not easy to force a fixity error
20:36:34 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:38:04 <oerjan> hm...
20:40:24 <oerjan> !haskell newtype Test a b = T b; infixl 0 `Test`; f :: Int -> Int `Test` Int; f x = T x; main = return ()
20:40:46 <oerjan> 22:40 =EgoBot> precedence parsing error
20:40:46 <oerjan> 22:40 =EgoBot> cannot mix `(->)' [infixr 0] and `Test' [infixl 0] in the same infix expression
20:41:59 <oerjan> i guess that was the obvious fixity for it
20:42:24 <elliott> I'm still really disturbed that you can set fixities for `foo`
20:42:33 <elliott> it just feels _wrong_
20:42:45 <oerjan> :D
20:43:07 <oerjan> > 3 `mod` 5 + 9 `div` 4
20:43:07 <lambdabot> 5
20:43:25 <elliott> nooooooooooooo
20:43:56 <oerjan> > 3 `mod` 5 ^ 9 `div` 4
20:43:56 <lambdabot> 0
20:45:13 <elliott> sobbin
20:53:28 <Lymia> > div x=0
20:53:29 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `='
20:53:56 <oerjan> wat
20:54:02 <Lymia> > div x = 0
20:54:03 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `='
20:54:05 <Lymia> :<
20:54:25 <oerjan> div is already a defined function and > only takes expressions
20:54:46 <oerjan> > let div x = 0 in div 5
20:54:47 <lambdabot> 0
21:05:35 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/hnzwx/til_that_a_majority_of_biologists_believe_earth/c1wxejf
21:05:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Someone tell me what the hell that last guy to respond to me is trying to say.
21:06:02 <Phantom_Hoover> It seems really stupid, but I'm too tired to work it out.
21:06:20 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: herp derp derpy derp herpderp
21:06:23 <elliott> summarised for you
21:09:44 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: honestly I don't see how something can be important if it doesn't concern that which is directly related to human affairs.
21:10:02 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, exactly my point.
21:10:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, related *in some way*.
21:10:18 <CakeProphet> is it somehow noble to keep our little corner of the universe full of life?
21:11:04 -!- shachaf has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:11:58 <Phantom_Hoover> I would argue that it's worthwhile.
21:12:17 -!- shachaf has joined.
21:12:35 <Phantom_Hoover> And, at this point, highly unadvisable to poke around without making sure we know what we're doing.
21:12:48 <CakeProphet> "But biodiversity is so much more important than the ways it serves people. It's sad that there will be a recovery period after man that lasts for millions of years before big crazy creatures like tigers and elephants can evolve. Those creatures are what makes this planet so nice." And how will any of it be "nice" in the event that we're extinct?
21:15:07 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: yeah I'm not arguing against preserving biodiversity. I just have trouble grasping an argument about the importance of a cause that is unrelated to humanity. If it's not related to humans then it must be important in some sort of grand cosmological sense. I don't think biodiversity is important to the universe.
21:15:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, these are all things I was going to say but decided against.
21:15:49 <pikhq> CakeProphet: Hardly anything that happens on this blue speck of dust *can* be important to the universe at large.
21:16:03 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
21:16:11 <Phantom_Hoover> There are, after all, only so many words worth using to say "you're wrong please shut up."
21:16:18 <pikhq> The simple fact is, the only thing that makes it important to us is that we happen to be on it.
21:16:38 <CakeProphet> I guess the act of preserving life is noble. But really it's not. By preserving life we preserve predators, disease spreading insects, things that wipe out other species, etc. We can't really know what effect that has.
21:16:47 <pikhq> And we happen to consider life inherently valuable and noble.
21:17:05 -!- Plazma has left ("Leaving").
21:17:10 -!- Plazma has joined.
21:20:11 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, true, but our civilisation is currently built on a particular ecological makeup, and it's not very sensible to start messing with it more than is necessary.
21:20:51 <CakeProphet> #esoteric - we talk about WWI, German, Haskell, the existence of mathematical objects, and the philosophical implications of ecological preservation
21:21:26 <elliott> when have we ever talked about WWI
21:21:26 <Phantom_Hoover> (Although not necessarily in that order.)
21:21:28 <CakeProphet> Phantom_Hoover: yes, I agree. I say preservation is good, but not for stupid reasons like "it's the right thing to do just because". :P
21:21:32 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, before you came in.
21:21:44 <elliott> also, we only talk about those things until I decide the conversation has become too stupid and order you all to stop
21:22:06 <CakeProphet> yes elliott is the prime minister of #estoeric.
21:22:23 <elliott> yes
21:22:43 <CakeProphet> self-appointed.
21:22:55 <elliott> no, appointed by definition.
21:23:09 <CakeProphet> yes, as defined by elliott.
21:23:24 <elliott> no. as defined by THE PLATONIC CONCEPT OF PRIME MINISTERIALITY itself.
21:23:33 <elliott> fuck you, i'm archive binging doctor who. (<-- new answer to everything)
21:23:43 <CakeProphet> eh, never liked that show.
21:24:15 <elliott> CakeProphet: psht, he thinks i'm talking about just the new series
21:24:16 <coppro> out
21:24:19 <coppro> now
21:24:33 <elliott> i've got four fucking decades of it to go through
21:24:43 <coppro> where are you now?
21:25:08 <elliott> coppro: was watching the first serial, but it's paused pending a torrent of the entire fucking thing to complete for the person I'm binging it with in America
21:25:14 <elliott> and then some trans-continental external hard drive mailing
21:25:29 <elliott> (my disk is too small to store all the episodes (two hundred gibibytes), and my internet connection is slow)
21:26:00 <olsner> you have no disks larger than 200GB? seriously?
21:26:05 <coppro> elliott: I may be the other end of that torrent
21:26:16 <CakeProphet> elliott: oh I didn't know it was such a massive program(me? fucking limeys)
21:26:17 <elliott> coppro: there are over a hundred other ends of it
21:26:20 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
21:26:22 <elliott> olsner: oh, I do, but they're all internal
21:26:23 <elliott> and not in this laptop
21:26:28 <coppro> elliott: ah, ok, you have better connectivity than I do
21:26:35 <coppro> I have like 3 peers for some reason
21:26:39 <elliott> coppro: seeders, I mean
21:26:50 <coppro> elliott: which torrent?
21:26:57 <elliott> 122fccaa560242d3c89577d419e9e485d8e22fae
21:27:03 <elliott> file list at http://torrentz.eu/122fccaa560242d3c89577d419e9e485d8e22fae
21:27:10 <coppro> iirc (at home) there were only like 6 seeders and 100ish leechers
21:27:33 <elliott> 126 seeders, 1,502 leechers says torrentz
21:27:35 <elliott> but it may be wrong
21:27:52 <elliott> I know Mr. Downloader is connected to like fifty peers, so
21:28:04 <elliott> it was going at a semi-decent speed, but it's been in the teens of kibibytes since
21:28:07 <coppro> ah yes, the torrent I have covers the new series and several spinoffs too
21:28:07 <elliott> which is... ridiculous
21:28:14 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:28:25 <elliott> coppro: hmm, if I'd seen that I would have probably downloaded it instead
21:28:30 <elliott> does it have all the fan reconstructions?
21:28:35 <coppro> don't know
21:28:39 <olsner> I wonder how I can tell ld to put stuff at one offset in the file, put a different offset in the part that tells the elf boot loader where to load it, and use a third offset for where things will appear in virtual memory
21:28:42 <coppro> it has some I think
21:28:46 <elliott> coppro: do you have the hash?
21:28:49 <coppro> some files are labeled (reconstruction) so I assume so
21:28:59 <elliott> it probably has the same source files then
21:29:02 <coppro> http://torrentz.eu/195862a4c232b8b48e2d94d5d12f852f626e84b9
21:29:02 <elliott> for the classic series
21:29:05 <coppro> probably
21:29:29 <elliott> lmao, it has K9
21:29:48 <elliott> aww, it doesn't have A Fix with Sontarans or Dimensions in Time or anything :-P
21:30:00 * elliott nabs it to see if it'll go any faster than the other one
21:30:41 <CakeProphet> elliott: the ninth doctor is the sexiest of all.
21:31:00 <elliott> nonsense, have you ever seen William Hartnell??!!!?!
21:31:03 <elliott> :p
21:31:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Hartnell is the best.
21:31:19 <elliott> best racist asshole
21:31:22 <Phantom_Hoover> This is the party line.
21:31:46 <elliott> coppro: heh, it started off about twenty times faster than the other one but has now promptly crawled down to being roughly as slow (six kibibytes per second) :(
21:32:02 <coppro> elliott: yeah :/
21:32:12 <elliott> it'd probably be quicker to make thousands of pounds and buy all the raw material than to wait for this
21:32:12 <coppro> btw the weakest link is hilarious
21:32:32 <elliott> coppro: have you been spying on our television ಠ_ಠ
21:32:58 <elliott> No. of episodes1600+ (incl. prime time)
21:33:03 <elliott> oh wow, now I have to archive binge The Weakest Link
21:33:08 <coppro> elliott: I've seen a few episodes. But I was talking specifically about the doctor who one that's in the torrent and for whatever reason finished downloading for me before any episode of the series proper
21:33:19 <elliott> coppro: oh you mean the spoof?
21:33:22 <elliott> in one of the episodes
21:33:25 <elliott> that television one
21:33:26 <elliott> from the new series
21:33:35 <coppro> no, they did a weakest link with cast members for charity
21:33:40 <elliott> hahaha
21:33:46 <coppro> it's in that torrent
21:33:48 <elliott> the great thing about the weakest link is how tiny the prizes are
21:33:50 <coppro> yeah
21:33:58 <elliott> happiest day of my life
21:34:01 <coppro> "Hi, I'm David, I'm 900 years old and I'm from Gallifrey"
21:34:20 <elliott> :D
21:34:55 <pikhq_> Wow, someone, just for kicks, has been computing election results for Canada under the stochastic election system.
21:35:07 <elliott> pikhq_: yes, Russell O'Connor
21:35:10 <elliott> the erm, "populariser" of the system
21:35:20 <pikhq_> Yup.
21:35:24 <elliott> aka: the person whose blog post I link to whenever I want to describe it to someone
21:35:33 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, do you have The Curse of Fatal Death?
21:35:41 <elliott> pikhq_: unfortunately it means basically nothing because the votes are under the non-stochastic system
21:35:44 <pikhq_> Yeah, saw his post on Planet Haskell on the 2011 stochastic election.
21:35:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Planning to watch that where it appears chronologically.
21:36:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I mean come on, we're going to watch the _EastEnders crossover_.
21:36:14 <elliott> Do you think we would skip that?!
21:36:35 <coppro> pikhq_: link?
21:36:46 <pikhq_> http://r6.ca/blog/20110530T170250Z.html For 2011.
21:36:47 <elliott> http://r6.ca/blog/20110505T205710Z.html
21:36:48 <elliott> http://r6.ca/blog/20110530T170250Z.html
21:36:56 <elliott> you missed the update :P
21:37:13 <elliott> coppro: oh hang on, the torrent speed is climbing up
21:37:27 <elliott> if it stays up for a while i'll get mr downloader to switch over to this one since it'll be quicker
21:37:56 <elliott> (gross, the New Doctor episodes are in SD)
21:38:14 <coppro> elliott: for some reason I found that downloading a parallel torrent would speed it up sometimes
21:38:26 <elliott> coppro: wat
21:38:31 <elliott> heh
21:38:44 <coppro> it was crawling at a few kb/s
21:38:52 <coppro> then I started downloading the most recent episod
21:38:56 <elliott> it would be nice if the torrent finished before summer is over since that's when the downloader has the most time to waste watching an entire serial per day
21:38:57 <coppro> and it jumped to like 100
21:39:10 <elliott> coppro: only one thing for it
21:39:14 <elliott> i'll start the other torrent with the same stuff
21:39:19 <coppro> hah
21:39:20 <elliott> and they'll both shoot up in speed
21:39:20 <elliott> LOGIC
21:39:33 <coppro> actually if you selectively download so there's no overlap it might work
21:40:20 <elliott> i love how transmission actually estimates over two thousand days remaining for the slower one
21:40:27 <elliott> that information will never be useful to anyone ever
21:40:38 <elliott> it should just display "Don't bother, just cancel this torrent and find another one." instead
21:42:28 <elliott> coppro: well, the torrent you're on seems to be hovering around sixty kib/s, which gives a much better fifty days to wait than the few thousand on the other one
21:42:30 <elliott> so, thank you
21:43:04 <coppro> elliott: with any luck you and I will peer and our net speed will go up
21:43:39 <elliott> coppro: well, I'm about to turn it off and wait for Mr. Downloader to get at the computer so I can tell him to switch; this thing is several gigabytes more than my total hard disk size
21:43:46 <elliott> and more than twice this partition's size
21:43:53 <elliott> so downloading it directly myself is not practical :)
21:44:33 <coppro> I'm selectively downloading for now
21:44:52 <coppro> I will probably get a USB hard drive and move to it or something
21:45:11 <elliott> I think we'll just download the classic-who episodes from this and get the new series in a higher quality at a faster speed elsewhere
21:45:21 <elliott> I'm not completist enough to want to watch K9 :P
21:45:21 <coppro> that does sound reasonable
21:45:29 <coppro> I can only fit the first three doctors on my current disk though
21:45:34 <coppro> so it's kind of irrelevant for me
21:45:39 <coppro> for now
21:45:56 <elliott> yeah, thus the transcontinental external hard drive plan :)
21:46:30 <elliott> hmm, if another friend gives in and says yes to watching it all, maybe we should cover it with stamps whenever it goes somewhere
21:46:32 <elliott> I CAN SEE A MAILING LIST IN THIS
21:46:35 <elliott> The Whodrive
21:46:49 <elliott> then someone formats it and all the fun ends
21:48:19 <elliott> coppro: i'm kind of dreading the reconstructions tbh
21:48:19 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
21:48:33 <elliott> a radio show where all the narration is silent and done with scrolling text instead
21:48:37 <elliott> with a bunch of stills accompanying it
21:48:39 <elliott> AWESOME
21:48:44 <coppro> yeah, I dunno
21:49:00 <coppro> but it's better than nothing
21:49:25 <elliott> I suppose I should worry more about e.g. the unbearable cheesiness of the vast majority of the early stuff, more than that, really :P
21:50:10 <coppro> yeah
21:50:27 <coppro> I've watched the very first episode
21:50:32 <elliott> serial or episode?
21:50:35 <coppro> episode
21:50:40 <coppro> other three finished last night
21:50:41 <elliott> yeah
21:50:42 <coppro> (downloading)
21:50:50 <elliott> the second episode is... not as high-quality
21:50:56 <elliott> mostly because the cavemen are terrible
21:50:57 <coppro> that's what I'm expecting
21:51:10 <coppro> there was not a lot of room for too much cheesiness in the first episode
21:51:26 <elliott> ... but as soon as i saw the torrent it was basically inevitable that i'd have the urge to binge it all, so i can't complain too much :)
21:54:29 <elliott> :t foldr (const f) undefined (repeat ())
21:54:30 <lambdabot> forall b. (Show b, SimpleReflect.FromExpr b) => b
21:54:32 <elliott> :t \f -> foldr (const f) undefined (repeat ())
21:54:33 <lambdabot> forall b. (b -> b) -> b
22:00:11 <CakeProphet> elliott: will that terminate?
22:00:21 <elliott> It's fix.
22:00:28 <elliott> So, depends on its argument.
22:00:30 <CakeProphet> hmmm, ah I see.
22:00:47 <CakeProphet> I was having a hard time following the folding logic but I think I see now.
22:00:50 <elliott> > foldr (const (0:)) undefined (repeat ())
22:00:50 <lambdabot> [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,...
22:00:55 <elliott> It's from http://www.haskell.org/wikiupload/1/14/TMR-Issue6.pdf.
22:01:06 <elliott> Well, they used (repeat undefined) rather than (repeat ()), but yeah.
22:01:38 <CakeProphet> it could be (repeat pi) right? doesn't matter.
22:01:53 <elliott> Yeah.
22:03:19 <CakeProphet> so what kind of proper does something have that makes it terminate when fixed?
22:03:25 <CakeProphet> *property
22:03:37 <elliott> It just lets you do general recursion :P
22:06:02 <CakeProphet> > fix (\xs@(x:_) -> (x+1):xs)
22:06:05 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
22:06:13 <elliott> > fix (\xs@(x:_) -> 0:(x+1):xs)
22:06:17 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
22:06:19 <elliott> hm
22:06:20 <elliott> oh
22:06:32 <elliott> > fix (\xs -> 0 : (case xs of (x:xs') -> (x+1):xs))
22:06:33 <lambdabot> [0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,...
22:06:59 <CakeProphet> hrm?
22:07:05 <elliott> CakeProphet: laziness
22:07:11 <CakeProphet> oh that's right
22:07:11 <elliott> you force a pattern-match before ever producing an element there
22:07:27 <CakeProphet> forgot about that caveat.
22:07:57 <CakeProphet> Haskell slips my mind so easily.. probably because I still haven't used it much.
22:08:09 <elliott> it's because perl is busy poisoning you
22:08:13 <CakeProphet> oh hey, I should find an open source Haskell project.
22:08:14 <CakeProphet> and, yes.
22:08:29 <CakeProphet> but now I think I've gotten to an intermediate of perl understanding, so I am comfortable moving to another place.
22:09:18 <CakeProphet> in other words, I can answer most questions on #perl, but the grumpy oldbies still school me on trivial details that I hadn't considered.
22:10:53 <CakeProphet> hmm, a Haskell signal processing package would be something I could work on.
22:10:53 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep
22:10:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:11:46 <CakeProphet> I've really wanted a nice clean notation I can use to describe various time-varying signals.
22:12:29 <elliott> that's rather vague
22:12:35 -!- zzo38 has joined.
22:13:03 <CakeProphet> elliott: not really..
22:17:21 <CakeProphet> it's a broad statement, describing a specific goal.
22:22:08 <CakeProphet> cFifth = foldl1 (\(xa,xf) (ya,yf) -> (sine xf $*$ xa) $+$ (sine yf $*$ ya)) [(2000,220), (1500, 330), (500, 440)]
22:22:29 <elliott> Reminds me of the things http://yaxu.org/ does.
22:22:42 <elliott> He has various Haskell-music things and does livecoding performances with them.
22:22:42 <CakeProphet> though if the type is something like (Num n) => Signal n
22:22:48 <elliott> Take a look at his videos.
22:22:54 <CakeProphet> you might be able to make a Num instance and just use + and *
22:23:13 <CakeProphet> elliott: yes, livecoding is something I'm interested in. Though less so than studio production with code.
22:23:28 <elliott> take a look at his videos then :P
22:24:46 <CakeProphet> hmmm, that's interesting
22:24:57 <CakeProphet> he must be telling it to re-evaluate the code when he's finished something.
22:25:27 <elliott> he is, obviously, since you can see it flashing :)
22:25:32 <CakeProphet> ah yes, the good ol' copypasta technique.
22:25:52 <CakeProphet> I should learn how to type properly. :P
22:26:05 <elliott> eh?
22:26:08 <elliott> it flashes because of his emacs mode.
22:26:16 <elliott> CakeProphet: there is also his other stuff like http://yaxu.org/text-update-and-source/
22:26:36 <elliott> and the post before that too
22:26:49 <elliott> that's based on haskell too iirc
22:27:00 <elliott> oh http://yaxu.org/workshop-output/ is done with the same language/tool thing I think
22:27:25 <CakeProphet> I wonder what those ~~'s are doing.
22:27:39 <elliott> there's a summary in one of his posts IIRC
22:27:53 <elliott> unfortunately it is hard to see the actual code in http://yaxu.org/workshop-output/ :P
22:30:47 <CakeProphet> I have a pretty fast typing speed but it's entirely using my index and middle finger. I think I would type faster if I practiced a better technique but currently I'm very slow at typing normally.
22:32:32 <Gregor> ... wow.
22:32:43 <elliott> Gregor: Wow what
22:32:44 <Gregor> What's your amazing typing speed with only index and middle finger? :P
22:32:48 <elliott> Oh
22:32:51 <CakeProphet> uh, I don't know.
22:32:55 <CakeProphet> I haven't tested it out recently.
22:33:11 <Gregor> 'cuz I type at 115WPM, but then I use all my fingers ... except for my left thumb.
22:36:01 <pikhq_> Funny, it's my *right* thumb that goes unused when I'm typing.
22:36:02 <CakeProphet> just did a typing test and got 97 WPM
22:36:14 <pikhq_> My spacebar has a noticable indentation for my thumb now.
22:36:15 <CakeProphet> but it said "N.F.L." like 10 times which seriously slowed me down.
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22:36:38 <CakeProphet> seriously who types NFL like that.
22:36:52 <pikhq_> People more pedantic than I.
22:36:55 <pikhq_> Who apparently exist.
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22:41:06 <CakeProphet> 99 WPM on a less stupid test.
22:42:05 <CakeProphet> the average for this site is apparently 36 WPM...
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22:46:09 <CakeProphet> I just never built the reflexes to touch type any other way.
22:47:14 <coppro> I can usually do about 90-100 touch typing with all my fingers except usually my left thumb
22:47:24 <coppro> I also use exclusively my right pinky for shift rather than either pinky
22:47:35 <coppro> and I make mistakes but usually correct them by feel
22:47:39 <CakeProphet> I use pinky for shift, enter, ctrl, and alt
22:47:54 <CakeProphet> but that's it..
22:47:57 <elliott_> coppro: heh, I only use my left shift
22:48:06 <coppro> Also I have a few other oddities
22:48:14 <CakeProphet> I'm a right shifter, but I use ctrl and alt on the left side.
22:48:37 <CakeProphet> Left Shift Would Be Weird.
22:48:42 <coppro> I only use my pinkies for modifiers and they keys they naturally rest on actually
22:49:15 <coppro> (plus /)
22:49:44 <coppro> elliott_: stupid brit
22:49:44 <CakeProphet> I occasionally use my ring finger... I think. Not often. Most of the time my fingers are dancing all over the place when I type so I use my most dextrous ones.
22:50:05 <elliott_> coppro: uhhhhh... fagnadian
22:50:08 <elliott_> yeah my burns are on top form today
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22:52:14 * pikhq_ typically averages ~70.
22:52:21 <pikhq_> But that's mostly because of typo correction.
22:52:36 <pikhq_> Inexplicably, I have a somewhat high typo rate. Kinda sucks.
22:53:24 <pikhq_> I alternate shift, left thumb alt, left pinky Ctrl.
22:54:12 <pikhq_> The only key to the immediate right of space I end up using is Win, which I have bound to compose.
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22:54:32 <coppro> I have alt bound to compose but rarely use it
22:54:43 <coppro> don't use any of the others on any sort of regular basis
22:54:49 <cheater_> really? i only use my pinky fingers to type
22:54:54 <pikhq_> cheater_: Hardcore.
22:54:57 <cheater_> well pinky and ring
22:54:58 <Gregorzilla> I'll bet if I joined ##javascript with this hostname some people would worship me :P
22:55:05 <pikhq_> XD
22:55:21 <CakeProphet> honestly is using home row an advantage in programming, where a large percentage of the characters you type end up being punctuation?
22:55:21 <cheater_> that is actually a good way to practice now that i try it :D
22:55:32 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Not as much of an advantage.
22:55:48 <pikhq_> My fingers end up actually hovering vaguely above the home row, BTW.
22:56:06 <pikhq_> Only coming down to rest when I'm not actively typing.
22:56:07 <cheater_> yes of course it is an advantage, because your editor uses hjkl for movement
22:56:16 <cheater_> as well as a/s/d for basic editing
22:56:33 <elliott_> <Gregorzilla> I'll bet if I joined ##javascript with this hostname some people would worship me :P
22:56:36 <elliott_> Do it :P
22:56:46 <elliott_> What does nat/ even mean
22:57:02 <Gregorzilla> elliott_: I guess for certain "major" NATs they rename you to nat/lol/somebullshit
22:57:03 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: Of course, you *do* still write a notable number of alphabetic characters in most languages.
22:57:08 <coppro> meh, I can one-up that
22:57:12 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: yes.
22:57:13 <Gregorzilla> e.g. for the NAT that Mozilla has for wireless.
22:57:17 <pikhq_> *cough*APL*cough*
22:57:22 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: Oh, regular kind of NAT
22:57:30 <CakeProphet> I guess I just have mad typing skills without a traditional technique.
22:57:32 <CakeProphet> so there.
22:57:34 <Gregorzilla> elliott_: Uhh, yes :P
22:58:00 <pikhq_> CakeProphet: The traditional technique is just much *easier* to achieve speed with.
22:58:01 -!- schunt has joined.
22:58:04 <schunt> hah
22:58:32 <CakeProphet> pikhq_: yes, but so hard for me to learn now. Because I don't want to deal with typing slow for a long time until I get the hang of it. It's like switching keyboard layouts
22:58:36 <CakeProphet> except not quite as bad.
22:58:39 <elliott_> schunt: Gregorzilla: Fight to the death.
22:58:44 <pikhq_> It's at least possible to achieve non-terrible speeds so long as you're not freaking staring at the keyboard.
22:58:53 <Gregorzilla> schunt: Oh noooooose!
22:58:56 <pikhq_> ... Man. I can't hunt-and-peck anymore.
22:59:06 <elliott_> schunt: Violated privacy good lately?
22:59:09 <pikhq_> My fingers won't let me.
22:59:15 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: Made a hog of a web browser lately?
22:59:16 <elliott_> TROLLFACE
22:59:19 <pikhq_> They force me to type right.
22:59:30 <elliott_> eagerly awaiting * foo (~foo@nat/microsoft/x-gjdfgkjdgsdkfj) has joined #esoteric
22:59:34 <elliott_> followed by a swift lynching
22:59:36 <CakeProphet> that's not even what I do. I just have my keyboard memorized. I also just memorize the motions for words.
22:59:37 <Gregorzilla> Bahaha
22:59:46 <cheater_> what is 'traditional technique'?
22:59:48 <Gregorzilla> schunt: But seriously, who are you? X-P
22:59:48 <elliott_> maybe it'll be oerjan
22:59:50 <elliott_> he DOES use IE after all
22:59:54 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: pooppy
22:59:58 <pikhq_> cheater_: Touch typing, home row, and all that.
23:00:04 <Gregorzilla> pooppy is at Google?
23:00:08 <cheater_> what is non-traditional?
23:00:14 <pikhq_> cheater_: CakeProphet apparently pecks.
23:00:17 <Gregorzilla> coppro: Which Google location?
23:00:20 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: No, he's just leeching their WiFi.
23:00:23 <elliott_> OBVIOUSLY
23:00:23 <Gregorzilla> lol
23:00:24 <cheater_> lolol
23:00:30 <CakeProphet> cheater_: I am the best pecker of all.
23:00:31 <cheater_> what a l0z3r amirite
23:00:38 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: Can you BELIEVE they didn't set a password????
23:00:41 <pikhq_> At least he's not hunt-and-pecking.
23:00:53 <coppro> Gregorzilla: MTV
23:01:09 <Gregorzilla> pooppy: Dude, you're like RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.
23:01:10 <elliott_> coppro: Not shown any music videos well lately?????????
23:01:11 <elliott_> HYUK
23:01:18 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: coppro: OMG MEET UP
23:01:20 <elliott_> AND FIGHT
23:01:21 <elliott_> TO THE DEATH
23:01:33 <coppro> Gregorzilla: where are you?
23:01:42 <Gregorzilla> coppro: Mozilla's main HQ.
23:01:45 <CakeProphet> Gregorzilla: I hear consuming drugs is a common thing to do at a social gathering.
23:01:46 <coppro> which is...?
23:01:53 <Gregorzilla> coppro: Mountain View
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23:03:27 <CakeProphet> man, I'm never going to find people who want to play a roleplaying game over IRC...
23:03:32 <elliott_> * FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death)
23:03:35 <CakeProphet> I might as well give up
23:03:42 <elliott_> the first casualty in the Gregorzilla/schunt war of two thousand 'leven
23:03:46 <Gregorzilla> elliott_: See how people behave on ##javascript ? Doesn't it make you want to kill yourself?
23:03:53 <elliott_> CakeProphet: i put on my robe and etc.
23:04:01 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: yeah, can you believe it's full of people who USE JAVASCRIPT??
23:04:02 <elliott_> Ewwwww
23:04:09 <Gregorzilla> Dun dun DUNNNNN
23:04:20 <CakeProphet> elliott_: not quite what I have in mind. But, I guess since we're on the subject, you can't ignore my girth.
23:04:27 <elliott_> So are you two meeting up or not, it would be a HISTORIC MOMENT.
23:04:42 <CakeProphet> you could play Yahtzee
23:04:44 <CakeProphet> HISTORICALLY
23:04:48 <Gregorzilla> elliott_: Hey there Britto, I think you mean "an historic moment" X-P
23:04:50 <coppro> Gregorzilla: do you know a Toby Elliott by any chance
23:04:58 <elliott_> CakeProphet: Or SHOWDOWN TO THE DEATH.
23:05:00 <elliott_> HISTORICALLY
23:05:03 <elliott_> coppro: hi, every Elliott here
23:05:09 <elliott_> all other elliotts are imposters
23:05:11 <Gregorzilla> coppro: Nope.
23:05:36 <Gregorzilla> elliott_: You know that you're the music hall at Purdue, right?
23:05:49 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: Yeah.
23:05:55 <elliott_> Gregorzilla: It's kind of great, apart from the poultry science.
23:06:06 <CakeProphet> elliott_: it's strange that it's spelled 'historically' even though you're more likely to pronounce it as "historicly"
23:06:09 <coppro> Gregorzilla: kk
23:06:11 <Gregorzilla> Yeah ... clearly they need a SECOND poultry science annex building.
23:06:15 <CakeProphet> I guess that's English, once again.
23:06:38 <elliott_> coppro: Gregorzilla: MEET UP YOU BASTARDS
23:06:48 <elliott_> topic
23:06:51 <elliott_> oops
23:06:56 <elliott_> I gotta get better at typing slashes
23:07:41 <Gregorzilla> pooppy: Why should I know Toby Elliott?
23:07:41 <CakeProphet> learn CakeProphet's mad peck typing kungfu
23:07:56 <elliott_> he's a tory
23:07:58 <elliott_> APPARENTLY
23:07:59 <elliott_> SAYS GOOGLE
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23:10:52 <coppro> probably a different toby
23:10:56 <coppro> Gregorzilla: guy I know works at mozilla
23:14:14 <CakeProphet> hmmm, I might switch to puredyne
23:14:51 <CakeProphet> or figure out how to remove pulseaudio from ubuntu and not have anything else break.
23:16:20 <elliott_> http://idyllictux.wordpress.com/2009/04/21/ubuntu-904-jaunty-keeping-the-beast-pulseaudio-at-bay/
23:16:26 <elliott_> the volume control thingamajig will break though
23:21:31 <CakeProphet> well, if that doesn't break my volume control keys, then I'm fine with that. But I suspect it might.
23:23:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:24:54 <elliott_> CakeProphet: it does.
23:24:58 <elliott_> there are replacements, but.
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23:26:38 <coppro> I got bored
23:28:20 <elliott_> did you meet gregor
23:29:57 <coppro> not yet
23:36:23 <CakeProphet> elliott_: hmm, so this blog you linked me keeps mentioning a "hackpact" in which he and bunch of other people wrote a lot of code to do live coding in Haskell... but, I cannot find a link to the source.
23:36:45 <elliott_> well there is http://yaxu.org/software/, http://yaxu.org/tidal/.
23:37:09 <elliott_> those posts look really old though
23:37:31 <CakeProphet> I might try to contact him and see if he has anything new..
23:37:36 * CakeProphet is INTRIGUED.
23:38:18 <CakeProphet> I enjoy that it works with visual as well as aural media. You can use that to make a color pattern, and then plug that into a spiral renderer to make nifty spiral shapes.
23:39:13 <CakeProphet> also, it's all in Haskell.
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23:50:43 * pikhq_ wonders how good or bad PulseAudio is these days.
23:51:04 <pikhq_> I mean, at least in 2009 it was the horrible program that broke your audio, but does it work sanely these days?
23:51:27 <elliott_> no
23:51:45 <pikhq_> Of course, regardless of whether or not it functions at all, a freaking audio server is probably a fucking retarded idea.
23:52:50 <CakeProphet> I'm almost positive he could turn the Pattern data type into a monad.
23:52:51 <pikhq_> Okay, well. If you absolutely must have one, make it like JACK.
23:53:19 <pikhq_> Cause, uh, JACK doesn't suck.
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23:55:12 <pikhq_> Probably helps a lot that JACK wants a real-time kernel.
23:59:36 <CakeProphet> yes, JACK works very well in puredyne
23:59:57 <CakeProphet> but I don't really know if I want to boot it to hard disk. I guess I'll just stick to USB boot if I ever use it.
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