←2012-01-23 2012-01-24 2012-01-25→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:09:37 * kallisti_ should learn how to effectively use xargs
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00:29:00 <fizzie> Actually I simplified those out in theory, except words seems to output "space, newline, space" after the last word, causing the simpler version to generate a spurious gry-line. :/
00:29:09 <fizzie> `run words --eng-all 3 | sed -e 's/ \|$/gry&/g'
00:29:17 <HackEgo> nachcnggry torygry griigry \ gry
00:29:19 <fizzie> `run words --eng-all 1 | od -t x1z
00:29:26 <HackEgo> 0000000 61 70 6f 6e 64 20 0a 20 >apond . < \ 0000010
00:29:46 <fizzie> See, what's that ... 20 0a 20 doing there?
00:31:05 <fizzie> (Also nachcnggry, totally English.)
00:31:49 <Jafet> Maurnest thou thine nachcnggry.
00:35:06 <kallisti_> fizzie: huh
00:35:06 <kallisti_> weirde
00:36:10 <kallisti_> oh I know why.
00:36:33 <kallisti_> local $\ = ' '; print generate for 1..min(25, int($ARGV[0]||1)); print "\n";
00:40:13 <kallisti_> `fetch http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/words.pl
00:40:16 <HackEgo> 2012-01-24 00:40:16 URL:http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16495819/words.pl [4627/4627] -> "words.pl" [1]
00:40:29 <kallisti_> `run chmod +x words.pl; mv words.pl bin/words
00:40:33 <HackEgo> No output.
00:40:36 <kallisti_> `words 5
00:40:42 <HackEgo> Optional module Math::Random::MT::Perl not found. \ lamore golo grapp blacea collllll
00:41:20 <kallisti_> oh yes I actually care about random number generation unlike Gregor.
00:43:29 <kallisti_> `run sed -i~ -e 's/^\s*warn/#warn/'
00:43:32 <HackEgo> sed: no input files
00:43:36 <kallisti_> `run sed -i~ -e 's/^\s*warn/#warn/' bin/words
00:43:40 <HackEgo> No output.
00:43:50 <kallisti_> `words --esolangs 500
00:43:55 <HackEgo> onoz 0x29a intediusp rcem tmmlpter xigxag mon morse entropy object 5-log beat m-code sbeezg rna mage ted! sbeezg rever waker) nic fit flip constuff orook
00:45:17 <kallisti_> `rm bin/words~
00:45:20 <HackEgo> No output.
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01:07:37 <kallisti_> http://www.google.com/trends/?q=haskell,+PHP&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
01:09:23 <kallisti_> interestingly Hugs gets more search volume tan GHC.
01:10:32 <Sgeo> kallisti_, combined with Haskell on the same page?
01:10:41 <Sgeo> Because if not, there's an obvious explanation for that
01:10:47 <Sgeo> Erm, wait, not page. Search.
02:11:23 <zzo38> Is there any way to do custom grouping with a Map in Haskell?
02:11:44 <zzo38> The keys are a record with two fields, and I want to group on one of them
02:18:57 <kallisti_> zzo38: you could do a fold to a list of Maybe and then catMaybes
02:19:43 <kallisti_> is that what you meant by grouping?
02:20:39 <zzo38> kallisti_: I mean, all items that the first field of the key is same, should be grouped together. They are already sorted since it is Map, and that is the primary sort already
02:21:25 <kallisti_> zzo38: so you want a [[a]] output?
02:21:49 <zzo38> That might do, or [Map]
02:21:57 <zzo38> I am unsure
02:22:13 <kallisti_> group . toDescList should give you what you want anyway, assuming you don't want to apply some other sort.
02:23:16 <kallisti_> otherwise you could probably do something by hand with mapAccumWithKey
02:23:21 <kallisti_> if you want a map result or something else.
02:23:43 <zzo38> Maybe I have to convert to list and use groupBy; the result doesn't have to be map
02:25:57 <kallisti_> andRule :: (Monad m) => WalkRule m a -> WalkRule m b -> WalkRule m b
02:25:58 <kallisti_> andRule f g i = f i >> g i
02:26:03 <kallisti_> does this look like >> for an existing monad?
02:26:38 <zzo38> Is it like ReaderT?
02:26:46 <kallisti_> yes that's what I thought
02:26:52 <kallisti_> I accidentally invented ReaderT :P
02:27:11 <kallisti_> type WalkRule m a = WalkInfo m -> m a
02:28:31 <kallisti_> thenRule :: (Monad m) => WalkRule m a -> WalkRule m b -> WalkRule m b
02:28:32 <kallisti_> thenRule f g i = f i >>= (\m -> g i{wMove = m})
02:28:37 <kallisti_> however here I do something different
02:28:58 <kallisti_> maybe I should rewrite this as RWS.
02:29:06 <kallisti_> or just ReadT State
02:32:32 <kallisti_> aah
02:32:55 <kallisti_> thenRule can be done with local
02:37:19 <kallisti_> > const [1,2,3,4] ++ const [1,2,3,4]
02:37:20 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (b -> [t])
02:37:20 <lambdabot> arising from a use of...
02:37:27 <kallisti_> > const [1,2,3,4] ++ const [1,2,3,4] $ [3]
02:37:29 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4]
02:37:45 <kallisti_> > const [1,2,3,4] `mplus` const [1,2,3,4] $ [3]
02:37:46 <lambdabot> No instance for (Control.Monad.MonadPlus ((->) [t]))
02:37:46 <lambdabot> arising from a use ...
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03:08:53 <pikhq> Be that Gregor, or just someone else from Purdue?
03:29:08 <Guardric> Could anyone explain to me how Iota/Jot operate? I don't know much about lambda calculus or combinatory logic, so it's hard for me to follow many of the descriptions online. My main confusion is how these languages manage to actually manipulate data
03:31:43 <pikhq> Quite honestly, you would probably be best off learning a functional language (e.g. Haskell), which would make the semantics of Iota fairly obvious.
03:33:43 <zzo38> You can make data into functions, such as church numbers, and so on, explain by Wikipedia and by the Unlambda documentation
03:51:19 <Guardric> ok thanks
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03:53:07 <kallisti_> lol
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04:11:22 <zzo38> Does the Haskell compiler know that equality is reflexive?
04:12:07 <kallisti_> it might. I don't know if Eq necessarily has that as a law though
04:13:04 <kallisti_> a cursory glance suggests that there's no rewrite rule to handle the reflexive case
04:13:30 <kallisti_> I would be surprised if there were non-reflective instances of Eq.
04:13:39 <kallisti_> *reflexive
04:14:44 <zzo38> The compiler ought to know it is reflexive so that you can do shortcut by pointer equality when it would help; is there any way for a Haskell compiler to know when to do that, anyways?
04:16:10 <kallisti_> syntactically at compile time, sure.
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04:17:51 <zzo38> What I mean is if there are some large structures that are usually passed using the same calculated value (so, same pointer) then check pointer equality first, if that fails then you can check in the other way
04:21:28 <kallisti_> RWS is nice.
04:22:15 <kallisti_> zzo38: dunno. the additional test would have to be worth it though.
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04:50:39 <zzo38> kallisti_: Yes, I know; it depend on the circumstances it might or might not be worth it.
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04:56:35 <kallisti_> despite being slightly ill-defined MonadPlus is a very useful generalization
04:57:20 <kallisti_> it would be better if it were broken up into multiple typeclasses, and with a proper way to refer to typeclass synonyms.
04:59:17 <zzo38> The class Alternative is the similar thing for Applicative
05:01:13 <zzo38> Although MonadPlus has a left zero law which is actually implied by the type signature of mzero and the monad laws
05:03:00 <zzo38> A proper way to refer to typeclass synonyms, in my opinion, would be to have a kind & where you can then use the "type" command
05:04:40 <zzo38> For example, to mean they have two classes required, you can have: type (X :: * -> &) (x :: *) = (Y x, Z x)
05:04:53 <zzo38> (Where Y and Z are classes)
05:05:46 <kallisti_> > let f = 2 where where where where where where in f
05:05:47 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `where'
05:06:43 <zzo38> kallisti_: What is that supposed to be??????
05:07:21 <kallisti_> nothing I was seeing what would happen
05:07:25 <coppro> http://robertsrules.forumflash.com/index.php?/topic/14206-treasurers-report/page__view__findpost__p__68024
05:07:27 <kallisti_> pretty sure you can have an empty where though
05:07:39 <zzo38> Do you need {} afterward if it is empty where?
05:07:48 <kallisti_> on one line probably
05:07:51 <kallisti_> but not with layout
05:07:58 <kallisti_> > let f = 2 where {} in f
05:07:59 <lambdabot> 2
05:08:02 <kallisti_> > let f = 2 where in f
05:08:03 <lambdabot> 2
05:08:06 <kallisti_> oh, no.
05:08:23 <kallisti_> > let in 2
05:08:24 <lambdabot> 2
05:13:30 <kallisti_> type aliases curry right?
05:13:37 <kallisti_> type Walk = WalkT Identity
05:13:47 <zzo38> Yes, I believe so.
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05:25:09 <zzo38> What should my program write in the Cwt/v field of the S3M files it creates? It is a sixteen-bit field which is supposed to indicate created with tracker/version.
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05:57:31 <zzo38> I will just put 0x0000
05:57:37 <quintopia> someone suggest a cli command with the user dict that would let me estimate the number of legal trigrams (or smaller) in the english language
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06:22:45 <kallisti_> `run perl -e 'use Storable; ($grams,undef) = retrieve("share/WordData/Eng1M"); print scalar keys %$grams"
06:22:48 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
06:22:53 <kallisti_> `run perl -e 'use Storable; ($grams,undef) = retrieve("share/WordData/Eng1M"); print scalar keys %$grams'
06:22:58 <HackEgo> Not a HASH reference at -e line 1.
06:23:14 <kallisti_> `run perl -e 'use strict; use Storable; ($grams,undef) = retrieve("share/WordData/Eng1M"); print scalar keys %$grams'
06:23:18 <HackEgo> Global symbol "$grams" requires explicit package name at -e line 1. \ Global symbol "$grams" requires explicit package name at -e line 1. \ Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
06:23:26 <kallisti_> `run perl -e 'use strict; use Storable; my ($grams,undef) = retrieve("share/WordData/Eng1M"); print scalar keys %$grams'
06:23:32 <HackEgo> Not a HASH reference at -e line 1.
06:24:09 <kallisti_> `run perl -e 'use strict; use warnings; use Storable; my ($grams,undef) = retrieve("share/WordData/Eng1M") or die; print scalar keys %$grams'
06:24:15 <HackEgo> Not a HASH reference at -e line 1.
06:26:15 <kallisti_> `run perl -CSDL -e 'use strict; use warnings; use Storable "retrieve"; my ($grams,undef) = @{retrieve("share/WordData/Eng1M")}; print scalar keys %$grams'
06:26:21 <HackEgo> 49303
06:26:25 <kallisti_> quintopia: ^
06:26:30 <kallisti_> turns out I already have that data for you.
06:26:44 <kallisti_> that's from a google dataset of 1 million english words.
06:31:13 <kallisti_> running my gram script on /etc/share/dict/american-english yields 7665 trigrams.
06:31:16 <kallisti_> well...
06:31:31 <kallisti_> character trigrams. did you mean word trigrams actually? I get confused sometimes. :P
07:03:39 <zzo38> Right now the sun and moon are not directly overhead any land; they are over the water.
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07:05:29 <zzo38> I have a map of where the sun, moon, and planets is rising, setting, and directly overhead, for this time.
07:05:46 <zzo38> Is it daytime in your location?
07:08:53 <oklopol> morningtime in mine
07:09:49 <zzo38> Do you mean the sun has already risen and it is before solar noon?
07:11:00 <oklopol> well according to the internet, the sun should be rising right about now
07:11:29 <oklopol> length of day 7 hours 17 minutes, so i suppose 3.5 hours till solar noon
07:12:40 <zzo38> According to Astrolog, too; I found Finland on the map according to Wikipedia
07:13:36 <zzo38> Are you in the south half of Finland?
07:13:48 <oklopol> roughly as south as helsinki
07:13:57 <oklopol> slightly norther... i think
07:14:28 <oklopol> something like 20 km norther maybe
07:16:26 <oklopol> (i assume you know where helsinki is if you just astrologged finland)
07:18:05 <zzo38> Is it near the red line? http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_14/astro-graph.png (I know where Finland is because I looked it up in Wikipedia, so I can see the red line on this map passes through the south half of Finland)
07:19:04 <zzo38> I believe these lines are for the *center* of the object rising, and ignoring refraction, but still taking into account the finite speed of light.
07:25:24 <zzo38> I have heard that the moon looks sideways in some places?
07:33:56 <kallisti_> > [const 2, const 3] <*> [1,2,3]
07:33:57 <lambdabot> [2,2,2,3,3,3]
07:48:55 <zzo38> Astrological signs are about as useful a measurement of ecliptic angles as months are a measurement of the date on the calendar. Agree/disagree/something else?
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08:17:23 <oklofok> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiMMERUpaNY my eyes are finally open
08:18:02 <oklofok> i've always wondered why the pharao needed to catch moses, but it's now obvious it's because he stole the superconductor
08:19:37 <oklofok> Youve got to be ignorant not to believe this. clearly civilizations before us? could do what we today, cannot. when looking at the crystal skulls, the underground chambers that are mapped out so direct and so precise that even today scientists are baffled. think what you want but our society is growing ignorant and is afraid to believe that we arent as powerful as we once were.
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08:19:47 <oklofok> hmm prolly didn't come through
08:19:53 <oklofok> and so precise that even today scientists are baffled. think what you want but our society is growing ignorant and is afraid to believe that we arent as powerful as we once were.
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08:20:24 <fizzie> There is some sort of an echo here, it seems.
08:20:30 <oklofok> :D
08:20:44 <kallisti> `? monoid
08:20:58 <HackEgo> Monoids are just categories with a single object.
08:24:18 <oklofok> WHAT'S WRONG WITH PEOPLE
08:24:37 <kallisti> oklofok: they're not categories with a single object.
08:25:13 <oklofok> strictly speaking, don't monoids have to be small categories with a single object though? or maybe not when it's a category theory term.
08:25:57 <kallisti> single object categories are pretty small if you think about it...
08:28:33 <oklofok> yeah just like an infinite universe containing only a single atom of xenon is small.
08:28:55 <oklofok> see there's also krypton
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08:36:44 <oerjan> 23:20:03: <fizzie> Aw, e left.
08:36:44 <oerjan> 23:20:04: <HackEgo> czekgry taceaegry maurnegry liltigry xitgry mortigry nyadovgry skadenberagry lientgry regalgry roumegry vesiniegry komugry froygry oreingry categry scionagemoigry naragry isonpoetgry irrotigry
08:36:48 <oerjan> OKAY
08:49:47 <oerjan> @tell <zzo38> Does the Haskell compiler know that equality is reflexive? <-- it actually isn't, for Double (NaN)
08:49:47 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:51:10 <oerjan> many think that's a bad enough case that IEEE equality/ordering shouldn't have been used for the haskell instances
08:53:14 <oerjan> @tell zzo38 There is reallyunsafeptrequality#, but as the name says that's really unsafe
08:53:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:53:43 <oerjan> @tell zzo38 *reallyUnsafePtrEquality#
08:53:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:59:21 <kallisti> @tell @tell @tell
08:59:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:59:28 <kallisti> @ 34235@#$@#%@#$@#^ hi
08:59:32 <kallisti> @tell 34235@#$@#%@#$@#^ hi
08:59:33 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
09:02:11 <oerjan> some day someone is going to have to investigate why lambdabot's @tell file is 400 GB
09:03:45 <oerjan> actually maybe not, because by the time that happens that will be a too insignificant amount to worry about.
09:12:15 <Jafet> There hasn't even been 400 GB of irc in lambdabot's channels
09:13:18 <oerjan> DETAILS
09:13:25 <oerjan> you can also @tell in privmsg
09:25:37 <quintopia> the degree sequence is the sequence of sizes of single vertex cuts. what is the sequence of cuts of k vertices called? what is known about two graphs which have the same such sequences for all k<=n?
09:27:13 <oerjan> i'm sure there's someone, somewhere, who knows the answer.
09:27:37 <quintopia> yes
09:27:56 <quintopia> i know such a person
09:27:58 <oerjan> wikipedia or mathexchange maybe?
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09:28:28 <quintopia> perhaps the latter
09:28:33 <quintopia> the former helpeth not
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09:33:21 <itidus20> http://www.amazon.com/Esoteric-Programming-Languages-including-Instruction/dp/1243288019/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1327397466&sr=8-3
09:34:02 <itidus20> Hephaestus Books represents a new publishing paradigm, allowing disparate content sources to be curated into cohesive, relevant, and informative books. To date, this content has been curated from Wikipedia articles and images under Creative Commons licensing, although as Hephaestus Books continues to increase in scope and dimension, more licensed and public domain content is being added.
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09:37:17 <oerjan> i think we've mentioned that before
09:37:22 <itidus20> ahh
09:41:33 <kallisti> http://blog.zx2c4.com/749
09:43:54 <oerjan> i hate long blog posts with the date at the bottom
09:45:08 <oerjan> i want to know _before_ i start reading whether this is from this year or 2001, dammit
09:46:07 <oerjan> not that i was actually going to read all of that, though
09:47:46 <quintopia> i posted question of mathexchange but i think half the question got cut off...
09:48:18 <oerjan> i think there may be a way to edit?
09:48:39 <oerjan> or perhaps you need to have reputation for that
09:49:37 <fizzie> It's all about the "reps".
09:49:51 <fizzie> "Hey peeps, have you got the reps?" <-- look, I can be hip too.
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10:11:10 <fizzie> 63 people on the course and the room has a sign "max. 32 people" on the wall. Oh well, let's hope only at most half show up. (Given that these things are optional, that's very possible.)
10:14:33 <fizzie> 16 so far and I'm supposed to start in a minute. Maybe they'll all fit.
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10:15:28 <itidus20> fizzie: class seems to revolve around powers of 2
10:16:47 <itidus20> 2^4 present.. 2^5 maximum... (2^6)-1 signed up
10:18:05 <itidus20> as to how 63 is not actually a power of 2, it is only one brainfuck instruction away from a power of 2
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11:29:23 <fizzie> There were a bit more than 2^4 at the end.
11:32:32 <fizzie> But less than 2^5.
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12:19:08 <fizzie> Sadly, no-one asked which channel the data was from.
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14:51:34 <Phantom_Hoover> halo
14:51:35 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
16:05:06 <ais523> hi Phantom_Hoover
16:26:29 <Sgeo> kallisti, I may have forgotten to update you, I'm not sure
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16:35:58 <Phantom_Hoover> >30*60
16:36:01 <Phantom_Hoover> > 30*60
16:36:02 <lambdabot> 1800
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17:06:21 <Phantom_Hoover> > NaN == NaN
17:06:23 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `NaN'Not in scope: data constructor `NaN'
17:06:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit.
17:07:49 <Deewiant> > (0/0) == (0/0 :: Float)
17:07:50 <lambdabot> False
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20:18:42 * oerjan considers some of his recent unanswered blog comments and gets this weird thought: is the _universe_ shadow banning him?
20:20:02 <ais523> oerjan: I'm still capable of perceiving you
20:20:14 <quintopia> ais is the universe
20:20:27 <ais523> assuming that the universe isn't also producing fake oerjan comments in order to hide the fact that you've been banned
20:20:38 <quintopia> the fact of your existence doesnt inspire in him any feelings of preference
20:22:30 -!- oerjan has set topic: Now open for Japanese vacation trips | Get your esoil and esoline here! | Glorious optators graciously levy special tax to subsidize their gold-embossed biography to poor people | Based on the power of the nuclear family! | Spotted marsh elliott spotted in other marsh | Gregorian chants outlawed, "American" | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
20:23:54 <oerjan> ais523: esolang fora seem to be exempted
20:25:47 <oerjan> except for User:Nthern, that scoundrel.
20:28:24 <olsner> Gregorian chants outlawed!? wtf
20:29:42 <oerjan> olsner: yes, Gregor admitted to being American. unprovoked, even. almost no torture involved at all.
20:31:35 <olsner> oh right, that kind of gregorian
20:32:13 <quintopia> Gregor! Gregor! Gregor! Gregor! Gregor!
20:32:33 <quintopia> (am i banned now?)
20:35:30 <oerjan> this law applies to loyal citizens, you are obviously an american spy provocateur.
20:36:34 <quintopia> so, i'm banned for being an american spy provocateur?
20:37:07 <oerjan> just watch your step, is all i'm saying.
20:38:24 <quintopia> oh...is there a sudden drop-off at the door? did you just wax the floor? spill your marbles?
20:39:27 <oerjan> yes, there are a lot of lost marbles around here
20:41:42 <olsner> where did all the marbles go though? must've gone somewhere
20:41:56 <Phantom_Hoover> They went to the floor, duh.
20:42:33 <olsner> the what?
20:42:50 <oerjan> `? mad
20:42:54 <HackEgo> ​"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked. "Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad." "How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice. "You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."
20:43:10 <olsner> so true
20:43:16 <oerjan> oh it was that one
20:43:30 <olsner> swap that and the `? welcome text
20:43:38 <oerjan> er
20:43:39 <quintopia> YES
20:50:10 <Gregor> Agreed.
20:51:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Although with the incessant portal chess it's kind of just been boring.
20:51:32 <olsner> Agreed.
20:51:47 <olsner> is anyone even doing esolangs anymore_
20:52:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb does sometimes, but he also feeds the portal chess so it cancels out.
20:54:07 <olsner> is that portal chess thing interesting? I missed the beginning of it so I've just filtered it all out
20:54:20 <Phantom_Hoover> No.
20:54:50 <Phantom_Hoover> It's just a chess variant based on an "OMG wouldn't it be cool if" taken too far.
21:06:30 * oklofok does recursion theory, does that count?
21:07:55 <olsner> probably, it sounds alright
21:18:19 * oerjan tests the shadow ban theory by answering an actual math question
21:21:58 <olsner> shadow ban?
21:22:45 <oerjan> ...
21:23:13 <olsner> ...!
21:25:00 <fizzie> It's like shadow boxing, except you ban.
21:25:39 * olsner puts some shadows in boxes
21:27:59 <olsner> ooh, kira nerys appears in Castle
21:30:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Does DS9 fall on a planet and turn into a castle.
21:30:38 <olsner> no, she's a dog psychologist
21:30:54 <fizzie> You mean... a dog who's also a psychologist?
21:31:54 <olsner> unsure, but she emulated a human pretty well
21:45:30 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> Does DS9 fall on a planet and turn into a castle. <-- sounds like elfquest
21:52:59 <kallisti> hi
21:54:06 <oerjan> lo
21:54:15 <olsner> me
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