←2012-02-05 2012-02-06 2012-02-07→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:05 <ColonelJ> what if I told you if and else were implemented in the language
00:00:12 <kallisti> well, you said you need help making it less esoteric.
00:00:13 <ColonelJ> as in they aren't reserved words
00:00:25 <ColonelJ> oh nah I just came here for lulz
00:00:52 <kallisti> I would say: okay
00:00:53 <oerjan> well i would certainly hope the language has no reserved words that readable, sheesh
00:01:07 <ColonelJ> there aren't any reserved words at all in fact
00:01:56 <ColonelJ> @if?[bool ~:ifchain]: #c#f
00:01:56 <ColonelJ> @ic?ifchain{>$b[] >$sb[=b []=sb ic]} ic
00:01:56 <ColonelJ> c if_t: .sb(f)
00:01:56 <ColonelJ> @elif?[ifchain bool ~:ifchain]:#f if_t: .sb(f)
00:01:56 <ColonelJ> @else?[* ifchain ~:*]:#f .sb(f) .b#
00:01:56 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
00:01:57 <ColonelJ> @endif?[* ifchain:*]:.b#
00:03:23 <ColonelJ> @true?[bool]: 0 0 =
00:03:23 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
00:04:01 <kallisti> are you sure bool isn't a reserved word?
00:04:32 <ColonelJ> well it's one of the built-in types
00:04:42 <kallisti> BLASPHEMOUS
00:04:45 <ColonelJ> if you want to you can override bool with a different type in an inner-scope
00:04:49 <ColonelJ> so don't fear
00:04:56 <kallisti> ah good.
00:05:01 <ColonelJ> also all types are optional you never have to state them anywhere
00:05:16 <ColonelJ> it's a dynamically typed language apart from where you specify types
00:06:05 <ColonelJ> for esoteric programming I guess you wouldn't bother with typing stuff
00:06:09 <itidus21> :->
00:06:14 <kallisti> actually these highly dynamic pet project things are surprisingly common...
00:06:25 <kallisti> ColonelJ: not necessarily.
00:06:37 <kallisti> Glass is an esoteric OO language!
00:06:38 <oerjan> unless you make the type system turing-complete.
00:07:07 <ColonelJ> oh right yea -.-
00:07:30 <ColonelJ> I'm more worried about my type system being decidable at the moment
00:07:37 <kallisti> why's that?
00:07:41 <oerjan> ...i'm not sure there actually exists a statically typed esoteric language.
00:07:58 <kallisti> oerjan: I'm almost certain there is.
00:08:05 <ColonelJ> never mind that I'm talking rubbish
00:08:50 <ion> Haskell? /me ducks
00:09:01 <kallisti> oerjan: ORK
00:09:12 <kallisti> I think
00:09:22 <kallisti> maybe not?
00:09:24 <kallisti> I'm not actually sure.
00:09:36 <oerjan> it catches type errors at compile time? i have never tried to run anything in it...
00:09:45 <kallisti> yeah I have no clue actually.
00:09:54 <kallisti> but the type of every variable is known at compile time... so....
00:10:09 <ColonelJ> that's static typing
00:10:26 <kallisti> but you might be able to rewrite the variable to a different type later...
00:10:35 <kallisti> >_> I don't really know.
00:10:39 <kallisti> and am too lazy to find out.
00:10:50 <oerjan> Gregor: is ORK statically typed?
00:11:06 <ColonelJ> the philosophy of my language is that adding types to variables can allow the compiler to do more optimizations on the code and catch some type errors at compile time
00:11:33 <ColonelJ> any that can't be detected or proven will be found at runtime
00:11:55 <Gregor> oerjan: ORK is a really poor choice of syntax for C++.
00:11:55 <ColonelJ> as the compiler becomes more developed more are detected at runtime rather than compiletime
00:12:41 <oerjan> Gregor: i take that as a yes.
00:12:44 <kallisti> ColonelJ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindley%E2%80%93Milner
00:12:47 <Gregor> oerjan: Indeed.
00:12:49 <oerjan> Gregor: hm does the same apply to Glass?
00:12:53 <ColonelJ> kallisti: what about it?
00:13:00 <Gregor> oerjan: No
00:13:00 <kallisti> oerjan: Glass is stack based
00:13:07 <Gregor> oerjan: Glass is dynamic and nonsensical.
00:13:16 <kallisti> ColonelJ: you could use this to infer types at compile-time if you wanted.
00:13:30 <Gregor> It's Forth meets Smalltalk meets torture.
00:13:31 <ColonelJ> I was planning to use some extension of it
00:13:41 <kallisti> Glass is awesome what are you talking about.
00:13:42 <ColonelJ> because it's a stack based language I can't use it directly
00:13:58 <ColonelJ> stack languages have stack effect systems instead
00:14:07 <ColonelJ> so it will be some strange hybrid of both
00:14:19 <ColonelJ> currently I'm basing the types on regular expressions
00:14:19 * kallisti has a plan to make a really simple revision to dupdog.
00:14:30 <kallisti> that might actually make it easier to prove turing-completeness
00:14:50 <oerjan> Gregor: i thought so but in principle none of that _prevents_ it being statically typed :P
00:15:06 * kallisti sets out to make a statically typed stack based language. :>
00:15:19 <ColonelJ> proving turing completeness isn't hard
00:15:37 <kallisti> ColonelJ: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Dupdog by all means go ahead
00:15:38 <oerjan> well, i guess Cat's type system never really got to work, so stack based and statically typed don't go too well together
00:15:40 <ColonelJ> kallisti: one exists already it's called Cat
00:15:49 <ColonelJ> damn it oerjan
00:16:05 <Gregor> <oerjan> Gregor: i thought so but in principle none of that _prevents_ it being statically typed // it'd be ... painful. But perhaps not impossible.
00:16:05 <kallisti> link?
00:16:32 <oerjan> the type system part never got implemented, or possibly it was dropped again
00:17:14 * kallisti doesn't think it would be too difficult actually.
00:17:44 <kallisti> certainly not impossible.
00:18:13 <kallisti> oh found it
00:18:15 <kallisti> nevermind
00:18:44 <oerjan> kallisti: type inference for stack based languages has special needs
00:18:50 <kallisti> oh, type inference, yes.
00:19:48 * kallisti sets out to make a statically typed /esoteric/ stack based language.
00:19:50 <ColonelJ> anyway for starpial basically the type system is ?type or ?[input1type in2type in3type : out1type out2type out3type]
00:19:54 <oerjan> like types for segments of stack, which might be arbitrary length if you want polymorphism
00:20:07 <ColonelJ> and it uses regular expressions to handle stupid stuff
00:20:23 <ColonelJ> @loop?[+:*]: #f f# f loop
00:20:23 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
00:20:35 <ColonelJ> + being one or more anythings and * being 0 or more anythings
00:21:06 <ColonelJ> but functions like this are obviously going to give the type inference algorithm a lot of problems
00:21:43 <ColonelJ> this is a really bad one
00:21:43 <ColonelJ> @list?[* int:{*}]: #n n 0 > [dip[n 1 - list] push] {} ?#
00:21:44 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
00:22:10 <ColonelJ> number of arguments consumed depends on an integer which might not be known at compile time
00:22:43 <oerjan> ColonelJ: well that makes it dependent typing, which is obviously undecidable
00:22:48 <oerjan> to infer
00:23:35 <ColonelJ> [00:07] <ColonelJ> I'm more worried about my type system being decidable at the moment << and that's why this was rubbish because it's impossible
00:26:06 <Jafet> When in doubt, add another quantifier
00:27:12 <oerjan> for all cases where doubt exists, always add another possible quantifier
00:30:09 <ColonelJ> I was thinking of allowing the language to try to find a valid value of an uninitialized variable that doesn't cause the program to crash, in the same way that prolog does
00:30:45 <ColonelJ> so that the language can spread over the whole imperative/functional/logic categorizations
00:31:56 <Jafet> "My language is multipathologic"
00:33:12 <ColonelJ> ironically it's meant to make programs more secure and verifiable
00:33:55 <ColonelJ> just because the type system is undecidable doesn't stop it being doable for a large range of programs
00:34:53 <Jafet> Or you can require that programs are valid only if their types can be verified by some algorithm
00:35:21 <ColonelJ> I could but where would be the fun in that
00:36:01 <Jafet> You can release different versions of the algorithm, ensuring language versions are never fully compatible
00:36:31 <ColonelJ> the language itself is always compatible but what each implementation is able to verify may differ
00:36:33 <Jafet> Hmm, that joke might hit too close to home
00:37:41 <ColonelJ> kallisti: dupdog isn't turing complete
00:37:54 <ColonelJ> the proof is like one line
00:38:58 <ColonelJ> there's nowhere to store any extra state and the length of the program is monotonically decreasing
00:39:23 <ColonelJ> turing machine requires potentially infinite state
00:39:40 <oerjan> ColonelJ: um no it's not monotonically decreasing
00:40:03 <ColonelJ> d'oh
00:40:11 <ColonelJ> duplication
00:40:22 <ColonelJ> what did I think that meant
00:40:46 <ColonelJ> maybe I thought it only duplicated that character
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00:49:50 <ColonelJ> does it matter if the program spits out random crap while simulating a turing machine
00:50:53 <oerjan> not as long as it's easy to filter out
00:51:42 <oerjan> e.g. the bitwise cyclic tag proof assumes all deleted bits are printed
00:52:07 <oerjan> of course it would be nicer if you could actually do nice output
00:52:46 <Jafet> You can relax the definition of turing-completeness a long way
00:53:28 <Jafet> Eg. if determining the final state of some wolfram crank automaton is turing-complete, you can say the automaton is turing-equivalent
00:54:08 <ColonelJ> yea
00:54:28 <ColonelJ> anyway I'm just having trouble seeing how this language can encode any state that actually affects the running of the program
00:54:39 <ColonelJ> oh I see
00:54:58 <ColonelJ> it's all odds and evens
00:55:53 <ColonelJ> just need a way to store that..
00:56:04 <ColonelJ> brb
01:01:23 <ColonelJ> I guess for a practical implementation of this language you'd just delete everything except the start and the end
01:09:41 <Gregor> What's the current preferred non-terrible pastebin?
01:10:03 <Sgeo> Chromium is starting to irritate me these days
01:10:28 <zzo38> Sgeo: In what ways? Perhaps use something else or modify Chromium
01:10:39 <zzo38> Gregor: Best is sprunge, in my opinion
01:10:43 <Sgeo> zzo38, some pages don't work properly
01:12:49 <oerjan> ColonelJ: as i recall, it's not easy to prove you won't need to go arbitrary deep into it
01:13:48 <oerjan> my idea for a practical implementation is to use a data structure with lots of internal sharing
01:17:19 <ColonelJ> there's really literally nothing used other than the start and the end
01:18:00 <oerjan> ColonelJ: um every command character deletes itself before running
01:18:02 <ColonelJ> but yea you could probably make it so you have a perfect implementation by keeping track of where the copying happened so you can get the inside stuff back
01:19:31 <ColonelJ> anyway back to turing land, still having trouble seeing how it's possible to store data given that you can't add anything to the code or even rearrange it
01:20:02 <ColonelJ> {~s..e} -> {s..es..e}
01:20:05 <oerjan> well there's a reason it's still unresolved :P
01:21:14 <oerjan> now once you run that s part, the two duplicated parts won't be identical any longer
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01:21:41 <oerjan> and it starts looking insanely complicated which commands will get run
01:22:12 <oerjan> but is it complicated enough to make it tc? we don't know.
01:23:27 <ColonelJ> my point was that the start and end are still the same so they haven't moved
01:23:47 <ColonelJ> reversing it has no effect either
01:23:47 <oerjan> otoh if you make the assumption that there _is_ some part inside that you will never get to ever (even in duplicated form), then keeping just the start and end does seem enough
01:24:01 <ColonelJ> it seems like a good assumption to me
01:24:30 <oerjan> hm except you _must_ get to _some_ copy of every command, eventually, i think.
01:25:32 <oerjan> and once you have traversed the entire length from the original s to e, suddenly it is not enough to keep track of just start and end any more
01:25:46 <oerjan> *to the leftmost e
01:26:32 <ColonelJ> tbh I think you only need to keep track of the duplications
01:26:46 <ColonelJ> that's already logarithmic in the size of the source code as it grows
01:26:59 <ColonelJ> so that's something you can reasonably store
01:27:43 <oerjan> yes, that was my idea with the sharing
01:29:00 <zzo38> There are so many things I can think of for Haskell extensions which might be useful to me but many people hate. I thought of another one now, which would be -XWildcardImports which allows you to write import X.Y.Zzz.*; import qualified Xyz.Abc.* as XyzAbc; import qualified Abc.Xyz.* as AbcXyz.*;
01:29:11 <ColonelJ> anyway you're right on the every symbol being accessed thing
01:29:34 <ColonelJ> the program pointer is indeed monotonically moving through the source code from both directions
01:29:54 <monqy> zzo38: how does that work portabilitywise
01:29:59 <ColonelJ> the interesting stuff happens at the boundaries
01:30:24 <zzo38> monqy: Can you ask a question better, please? I do not completely understand your question
01:32:26 <monqy> from what I can see it: (1) makes dependency tracking harder (2) makes it so things may fail to compile if someone has all the proper dependencies but also some other things that cause conflicts when imported by the wildcard
01:33:28 <zzo38> monqy: One thing is that, if there are directories with these names in the current program, it uses only the modules in the current program and not other packages, is one of my ideas. And if you want other packages wildcard imports you must name them explicitly.
01:33:49 <zzo38> Therefore it will not cause conflicts.
01:34:48 <monqy> what happens if there are not directories with those names in the current program
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01:35:07 <zzo38> monqy: Then you get an error if you have not named the package explicitly.
01:35:24 <monqy> oh
01:35:56 <zzo38> And then, the explicit package naming can also include wildcards, but if you do so, you must explicitly tell the compiler to unhide the packages you want (and that can also include wildcards).
01:36:26 <kallisti> @pl (f -> f x y)
01:36:26 <lambdabot> (line 1, column 4):
01:36:26 <lambdabot> unexpected ">"
01:36:26 <lambdabot> expecting variable, "(", operator or ")"
01:36:30 <kallisti> @pl (\f -> f x y)
01:36:30 <lambdabot> flip ($ x) y
01:36:39 <zzo38> But if there is such a directory ("X/Y/Zzz/" in the first example), but contains no files, that wildcard import declaration is silently ignored.
01:36:57 <kallisti> zzo38: I would use #let for macros, but that conflicts with hsc2hs macro syntax
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01:39:01 <zzo38> kallisti: I didn't know that, but mine has # followed by a letter to indicate what kind of macro you want, such as #D define normal macro, #{ to enter a named chunk and #P for the main program again, etc (somewhat similar to WEB, although using # instead of @)
01:40:43 <zzo38> Other idea for Haskell extension is -XHideNonexist which allows a hiding clause of an import declaration to specify things which the named module does not export, without causing warning/error messages.
01:40:45 <kallisti> why is #P needed?
01:41:55 <zzo38> kallisti: For example, #{"hello world"} creates a named section {"hello world"} and then everything beyond that point until another #{ or a #P will be part of that chunk, so #P is the things directly entered into the program rather than a named chunk.
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01:49:17 <oerjan> :t (`id` ?x `flip` ?y)
01:49:18 <lambdabot> The operator `id' [infixl 9] of a section
01:49:18 <lambdabot> must have lower precedence than that of the operand,
01:49:18 <lambdabot> namely `flip' [infixl 9]
01:49:43 <oerjan> darn, wrong way
01:49:55 <oerjan> d'oh of course
01:52:34 <zzo38> And then there could be -XZeroParamTypeClasses which allow you to make a class with zero parameters, which means it can have only one instance (although it does not have to be defined in the same module)
01:52:49 <oerjan> @pl (\f -> f x y z)
01:52:49 <lambdabot> flip (flip ($ x) y) z
01:53:11 <zzo38> (And with -XInstanceDisambiguation you could have multiple instances in different files which you can specify which is used)
01:53:24 <oerjan> :t id `flip` ?x `flip` ?y
01:53:25 <lambdabot> forall a a1 b. (?x::a, ?y::a1) => (a -> a1 -> b) -> b
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01:59:36 <oerjan> holy spam batman
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02:05:10 <elliott> heads up -
02:05:47 <elliott> in the next few days I'm planning to set up MediaWiki on pyralspite, with the intention of importing the daily database dumps of the esolangs wiki and hopefully pointing esolangs.org over there
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02:06:05 <elliott> since graue said (via ais) he was open to someone taking over administration. and because this spam is really annoying.
02:06:16 * oerjan agree
02:06:39 <Gregor> Sooooo you ended your strike in order to try to shanghai the site???
02:06:53 <elliott> Gregor: What strike, what shanghaiing
02:07:04 <oerjan> WHY DON'T YOU COME HERE ANY MORE
02:07:55 <elliott> Graue doesn't have time to care for the site any more, it's badly in need of a MediaWiki upgrade, and spam now completely fills the recent changes (yesterday you had to increase the shown number of items to see the _legitimate_ changes that got made earlier in the day)
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02:08:37 <oerjan> i've been using ?limit=250 or whatsitsname for a while
02:08:44 <elliott> I was merely letting people know I'm intending to do such in the next few days, since I have the free time and the server, so that they could contact me with anything they found relevant (e.g. extensions they'd like or such).
02:09:44 <elliott> But by all means revel in your discovery of my dastardly plot to burden myself with installing and configuring anti-spam and caching extensions and administrating a PHP server :)
02:11:09 <Gregor> You dastard!
02:11:14 <oerjan> yay!
02:11:15 <elliott> oerjan: Because I hear this place isn't terribly interesting recently.
02:11:17 <oerjan> and then you'll enslave us all, right?
02:11:32 <Gregor> (Apparently "dastard" is a word, at least according to my spell checker. I have no idea what it means, and it's probably not a noun)
02:11:36 <elliott> Yes, I personally plan to use my database access to give myself the biggest powers, and then delete every brainfuck derivative and put goatse on the main page.
02:11:56 <elliott> That would be productive and you would all be completely powerless to do anything, 'cuz domains can't be pointed elsewhere more than once.
02:12:01 <Gregor> So, on the whole an improvement.
02:12:04 <elliott> THE PERFECT CRIME
02:12:09 <oerjan> i see, so Phantom_Hoover is involved, right?
02:12:19 <elliott> No, he's handling the murder. That's ancillary.
02:12:42 <oerjan> right, right
02:12:46 <elliott> Gregor: (Also if people know I plan to do it I'm less likely to procrastinate not doing it, which is what I spent today doing.)
02:15:30 <elliott> Relatedly -- does anyone have any experience with the Varnish cache?
02:15:47 <elliott> And/or reasons to use other caches
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02:16:55 <tswett> Gregor: here it is.
02:17:02 <Gregor> lol
02:17:12 <Gregor> But I can't /nick Applejack here.
02:17:23 <ColonelJ> or you could like not use Apache
02:17:39 <elliott> ColonelJ: When did I say I was using Apache?
02:17:39 <tswett> Fine. Join #esoteric on Sine. }:P
02:17:55 <ColonelJ> I just assumed that if you actually needed a cache then you were using apache
02:18:09 <elliott> ColonelJ: You've clearly never run MediaWiki.
02:18:25 <elliott> It eats up every resource it's given to serve the minimum amount of people it possibly can.
02:19:10 <Gregor> Sort of like Trac, then.
02:19:32 <elliott> Gregor: Yes, but the end result is more useful.
02:19:37 <Gregor> Indeed.
02:19:42 <elliott> OTOH, MediaWiki is PHP.
02:21:46 <elliott> Oh, hmm, it looks like nginx might support caching directly.
02:21:54 <elliott> That would be less painful than setting up an external cach...ier.
02:22:01 <ColonelJ> "As you can see from these test, if you are working with Nginx serving static files, it gives you no advantage to put Varnish in front of it" source: http://www.go2linux.org/linux/2011/04/nginx-varnish-compared-nginx-941
02:22:31 <elliott> ColonelJ: That's nice. Where's your source for "MediaWiki is based on serving static files"?
02:22:38 <ColonelJ> truedat
02:22:53 <ColonelJ> but that was just to illustrate one point at least
02:23:01 <elliott> :)
02:23:13 <ColonelJ> if it's set up wrong it may well perform even worse
02:23:35 <elliott> It's a bit ridiculous to cache static files anyway.
02:23:38 <elliott> They're already cached.
02:23:47 <elliott> The kernel will keep them in memory.
02:26:01 <tswett> I wonder what you call this sort of music: http://homestuck.bandcamp.com/track/homestuck-anthem
02:26:04 <tswett> Don't say "electronic".
02:26:29 <elliott> Anyhow, that's all, methinks.
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02:27:04 <tswett> It's... you know, that one electronic genre that sounds like a ping-pong game at the beginning, and then transitions into piano and violin and bass.
02:27:10 <ColonelJ> tswett: ambient?
02:27:56 <tswett> Perhaps. It's not very unobtrusive, though, I think.
02:30:03 <ColonelJ> like just a random one from google/youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPmmHWSZwEA
02:30:09 <ColonelJ> get the piano coming in after a minute
02:31:14 <tswett> Yeah, I guess the intros are definitely the same style.
02:33:41 <tswett> "White" from the same album may also qualify as ambient.
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03:10:00 <quintopia> tswett: i'm going with experimental industrial ambient
03:11:25 <quintopia> is that hubble deep field in the background
03:11:55 <quintopia> also: approximately how many weeks should i take off work if i want to go through all of homestuck in a single session?
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03:34:07 <Gregor> OK, I seriously use ctrl+W when I mean ctrl+Q an embarrassing amount of the time.
03:35:02 <oerjan> remap?
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03:57:58 <zzo38> Here it is: http://sprunge.us/FfJA It is called "Hampp" it is short for "Haskell macro preprocessor"
03:58:44 <zzo38> Tell me I'm wrong.
04:07:10 <quintopia> you're wrong
04:07:14 <quintopia> (what are you wrong about?)
04:09:59 <monqy> it's actually called hamapp
04:12:40 <quintopia> it's actually called hasmacprep
04:15:10 <zzo38> O, I didn't know that.
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04:15:38 <quintopia> circles are lame
04:33:07 <zzo38> Now you can please tell me in case something should be add/remove/whatever, or comment/question/complain, or something else.
04:45:58 <quintopia> i don't really haskell. sorry.
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05:55:53 <zzo38>
05:56:06 <quintopia> i agree
05:56:16 <oerjan> very succinct.
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06:51:55 <zzo38> Do you know, what file formats you suggest, I could make Hampp load, additionally? And any other idea of built-in macros or other features? One idea I have is 8data which creates datatype declarations from other things, although I am unsure exactly how it would do.
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07:08:08 <oklopol> "<Gregor> (Apparently "dastard" is a word, at least according to my spell checker. I have no idea what it means, and it's probably not a noun)" americans -__-
07:09:01 <monqy> backformation of dastardly? or is dastardly derived from dastard help
07:10:52 <oklopol> also yaaay elliott was back
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07:27:15 <Sgeo> He was?
07:27:19 <Sgeo> Oh
07:32:34 <Jafet> My spell checker once corrected "benzodiazepines" to "sleeplessness"
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09:02:22 <Sgeo> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10%2F0
09:02:35 <Sgeo> You know, the things I wish I knew of in grade school
09:04:10 <Sgeo> My "number circle" seems less impressive now.
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09:45:18 <Sgeo> kallisti, Phantom_Hoover update
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10:09:55 <kallisti> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=brandon+jacobs+rushing+yards+in+lightyears
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10:28:33 <kallisti> aw, wolfram alpha has 2D graphs of functions but not 3D :(
10:29:30 <Jafet> You need a 3D screen first
10:30:32 <fizzie> kallisti: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Plot3D[Sin[x%2By^2]%2C+{x%2C-3%2C3}%2C+{y%2C-2%2C2}]
10:30:55 <fizzie> (Possibly it's writable in some less Mathematicaey way.)
10:32:48 <kallisti> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=left-compressed+evolution+of+Wolfram+2%2C3
10:32:51 <kallisti> woah
10:33:33 <kallisti> things like a^2 + b^2 show a plot
10:33:51 <fizzie> Yes, I guess it guesses.
10:33:54 <kallisti> but a^2 + b^2 + c^2 do not
10:34:43 <kallisti> also multi-dimensional sine things looks cool.
10:35:13 <kallisti> ah you can just say "plot <equation>"
10:35:30 <ais523> gah, I just deleted 3 recent-pages-screenfuls worth of spam
10:35:38 <ais523> and I'd only been away for 17 hours or so
10:35:56 <kallisti> dude, bro
10:35:58 <kallisti> bayesian inference
10:36:18 <Jafet> Bayesian mass guessing
10:36:26 <kallisti> nah
10:36:39 <kallisti> train it for a few days by marking changes manually
10:40:10 <Jafet> Require posters to prove or disprove that a randomly given esoteric language is Turing-equivalent
10:40:45 <Jafet> It's like recaptcha, except it's also a Turing test
10:40:51 <fizzie> Aw, it input-interpretates http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=RegionPlot3D[x^2+%2B+y^2+%2B+z^2+%3C+1+%26%26+x^2+%2B+y^2+%3C+x^2%2C+{x%2C+-1%2C+1}%2C+{y%2C+-1%2C+1}%2C+{z%2C+-1%2C+1}] right but can't produce an image.
10:42:04 <fizzie> Ooh, I'm on level III in our room-booking system.
10:42:56 <fizzie> Also many RegionPlot3D[]s it just ignores and says something about the equation inside instead.
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15:34:10 <Gregor> cheater: I'm so glad you agree with my celebration!
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15:40:02 <fizzie> (Equal time and all that.)
15:45:32 <Gregor> http://ioccc.org/2011/whowon.html :)
15:48:07 <cheater> Gregor: is that u
15:48:11 <cheater> Gregor: nice
15:48:19 <fizzie> Contrugalattices, then.
15:48:24 <fizzie> Nice category.
15:48:59 <Gregor> My goal was for them to invent a category.
15:49:00 <Gregor> So yeah.
15:49:02 <Gregor> Wooooooh
15:51:40 <itidus20> wow
15:52:28 <Gregor> Hm, apparently I read the word "Contrugalattices" as "Congratulations" without even a second glance.
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16:00:42 <Gregor> Also, is "Daniel Vik - Tracker player" a coincidence, or a name in this channel?
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16:08:51 <Sgeo> reverse life?
16:09:19 * Sgeo blinks at suprisingly portable
16:10:01 <Sgeo> And apparently I can't spell a word even if I've just seen it.
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17:04:26 <ais523> Gregor: wow
17:04:30 <ais523> results out already
17:04:31 <ais523> and you won
17:05:13 <ais523> Gregor: I'm glad I inspired you into doing this, even if I didn't win myself
17:05:29 <ais523> also, shinh is on there
17:11:11 <Gregor> ais523: Sorry you didn't win :( :( but that's actually wildly insufficient to diminish my current ear-to-ear grin 8-D
17:11:23 <ais523> it's OK
17:11:33 <ais523> I'm just not good enough at C to really do well at the IOCCC
17:11:56 <ais523> I get the feeling that there's a relatively small number of entries, though, just from the fact that submissions closed in January and we have the winners already in February
17:12:30 <Gregor> Yeah, probably.
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17:13:02 <ais523> I guess the easiest way to win is a crazily golfed game full of graphics and sound
17:13:10 <ais523> even if it isn't particularly obfuscated
17:15:18 <cheater> easiest way: df clone
17:15:56 <ais523> cheater: no, not easy to do a df clone within the size limit
17:16:00 <itidus20> what is golfed?
17:16:16 <cheater> lol
17:16:16 <itidus20> i hope to have a small TTL on this question :->
17:17:13 <ais523> itidus20: the IOCCC
17:17:30 <ais523> not specifically because they request golfing, but because they have a relatively small maximum size limit
17:17:30 <itidus20> ok i found it in google by typing golfed esolang
17:18:06 <cheater> try vimgolf
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17:44:21 <Taneb> Hello
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19:47:48 <oerjan> so wolfram alpha wants to tell me about the next big step in computational knowledge, coming soon.
19:48:04 <oerjan> now i shall never look at it.
19:51:46 <fizzie> They don't actually tell anything there either.
19:52:08 <fizzie> It was all "we don't want to reveal the details, but it's going to be amazing".
19:52:22 <ais523> fizzie: this would be worrying coming from many people
19:52:25 <oerjan> oh.
19:52:28 <ais523> from the Wolfram people, it's more likely banal
19:52:58 <fizzie> You get to personalize the experience on a whole new level, made possible by their computational knowledge methods and whatnots.
19:53:07 <fizzie> Also I think a dialogue was mentioned.
19:53:16 <oerjan> Gregor: congratulations!
19:54:24 <fizzie> "We’re not going to let you know the details just yet, but what you’re going to find is a dramatic enhancement of functionality. You’ll be able to personalize your interaction with Wolfram|Alpha in ways that only our combination of algorithms, presentation tools, and data representation could make possible."
19:54:45 <fizzie> Maybe it'll be shiny.
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20:00:52 -!- oerjan has set topic: /fnord/Home of N>=1 IOCCC Winners! | Friendship Is Magic: The Gathering | elliott sacked as bearer of Element of Loyalty, seeking pegasus replacement | http:\\\/\\\/codu.org\\\/logs\\\/_esoteric\\\/ | Now slightly on-topic | Now failing to construct an esolang in THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY./fnord.
20:01:10 <oerjan> i'm not entirely sure what N is at this point
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20:02:28 <oerjan> i guess most likely 1, if only because it's so long since the last one
20:02:53 <oerjan> but i may be forgetting someone i should remember
20:03:02 <kallisti> IOCCC winners what?
20:03:17 <oerjan> kallisti: Gregor won
20:03:38 <kallisti> oh noice
20:04:28 <kallisti> "most self deprecating" huh?
20:04:54 <kallisti> ..."most devolving" okay they're just making up arbitrary superlatives now.
20:04:55 <oerjan> quite so
20:06:02 <Gregor> I do quite enjoy the category they invented for me 8-D
20:06:12 <Gregor> Because it makes no sense for any other program.
20:06:30 <kallisti> "most shrinkable" lol
20:06:45 <Gregor> I do quite want to know what that means.
20:07:00 <zzo38> Shinichiro Hamaji entered as well; I didn't know that before. And it seems like they changed the categories entirely this year.
20:07:13 <Gregor> zzo38: The categories change every time.
20:07:16 <oerjan> someone should have run a spellchecker over that page.
20:07:24 <zzo38> Why is there two Paint by number puzzle?
20:07:25 <Gregor> zzo38: They reuse, but they invent categories per-competition.
20:07:33 * kallisti wonders how difficult it is to actually win IOCCC
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20:09:38 <oerjan> also there seems to be something resembling a duplicate
20:10:18 <Gregor> oerjan: Yeah, I'm curious about that too, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what it means.
20:10:19 <oerjan> zzo38: and both from Japan, could be a duplicate
20:10:30 <kallisti> could be Japanese clones.
20:10:42 <kallisti> with secret identities.
20:11:01 <oerjan> best non-chess game - but no chess games anywhere else :P
20:11:06 <Gregor> oerjan: Yup
20:11:16 <kallisti> I'm guessing they got a lot of chess game entries.
20:11:23 <oerjan> unless it's in one of those 3 embedded programs for the best of show
20:12:13 * kallisti submits an obfuscated C portal chess implementation for IOCCC 21
20:12:49 <ais523> perhaps it was a co-submitted entry
20:12:50 <Gregor> So who was talking about making a MIDI and/or Tracker player for this IOCCC (other than elliott and me, since I stole the idea and then didn't follow thru)
20:13:38 <Gregor> ais523: You'd think they could format it less ridiculously then ...
20:14:13 <kallisti> !perl $_="blah";s'blah'\r\n';print
20:14:14 <ais523> Gregor: it wouldn't surprise me if they're trying to wind people up
20:14:15 <EgoBot> ​\r\n
20:14:29 <Gregor> ais523: Oh?
20:14:30 <ais523> kallisti: testing quoting rules of s'''?
20:14:31 <oerjan> well we know ais523's name, so he wasn't one of the winners
20:14:36 <ais523> I wasn't, I already said as much
20:14:49 <kallisti> ais523: it's been about a month since I've looked at perl. I occasionally forget small details. :P
20:15:06 <oerjan> ais523: ok, i haven't finished logreading yet
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20:16:28 <kallisti> Gregor: AndGregor: hi
20:17:06 <fizzie> LandGregor, to distinguish from the SkyGregor and the SeaGregor.
20:17:22 <oerjan> i was more expecting OrGregor and XorGregor
20:17:26 <AndGregor> Earth pony Gregor
20:19:05 <oerjan> `pastlog daniel vik
20:19:38 <HackEgo> No output.
20:19:45 <oerjan> hmph
20:19:57 <oerjan> well it may not have been mentioned
20:20:57 <oerjan> `pastlog shinh
20:21:13 <HackEgo> 2011-10-26.txt:15:51:37: <ais523> here's a GolfScript factorial program, that factorials every line of input (treating it as a number): http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Factorial/narb_1298033052&gs
20:21:37 <oerjan> oh it's the maintainer of that site?
20:21:45 <oerjan> (also ICFP winner, i saw)
20:22:06 <oerjan> `pastlog shinh>
20:22:13 <HackEgo> No output.
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20:24:15 <fizzie> \land is IIRC LaTeX for the /\.
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20:24:45 <fizzie> In related news, "latex land" is a google search for which some of the hits... are not about LaTeX.
20:25:24 <oerjan> but _may_ be relevant to rule 34.
20:25:28 <oerjan> (i assume.)
20:25:38 <AndGregor> lol
20:28:35 <fizzie> Random gripe time: they don't stick X servers in the lecture room Windows workstations. :/
20:28:56 <fizzie> (They do put a commercial SSH client in, though.)
20:34:58 <oerjan> fizzie: two version replies?
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20:39:17 <Physis> someona can read my future?
20:40:23 <ais523> `? esoteric
20:40:27 <HackEgo> This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
20:40:43 <Physis> :)
20:40:48 <Physis> sank you
20:41:07 <Physis> I know only C++ an C# btw
20:41:09 <Physis> yo
20:41:39 <ais523> yep, this is probably the wrong channel for you
20:41:50 <ais523> it took a while to figure out where the right one was (several years), but we're happy to send people there now
20:42:41 <oerjan> `? welcome
20:42:44 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
20:42:53 <oerjan> just in case you like this stuff too :)
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20:58:21 <Gregor> <fizzie> Random gripe time: they don't stick X servers in the lecture room Windows workstations. :/ // what a ... shock?
20:58:24 <Gregor> Where by "shock"
20:58:25 <Gregor> I mean "duh"
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21:25:59 <fizzie> Gregor: But they have a site-wide license to one X server and all, and they used to put it in.
21:26:18 <fizzie> (I'm supposed to show some MATLAB stuffs tomorrow.)
21:27:27 <Gregor> ais523, oerjan: Upon further observation, the two "paint by number puzzle" entries are almost certainly a coventure, as the site says there are 14 winners but this list has 15 entries.
21:28:15 <ais523> right
21:28:40 <oerjan> hm
21:36:26 <oerjan> :t unionBy
21:36:26 <lambdabot> forall a. (a -> a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] -> [a]
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21:37:21 <oerjan> @hoogle unionBy
21:37:22 <lambdabot> Data.List unionBy :: (a -> a -> Bool) -> [a] -> [a] -> [a]
21:42:51 <olsner> there are 14 winners but this list has 15 entries => one of them is the loser
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23:55:07 <Sgeo> kallisti, Phantom of the Update
←2012-02-05 2012-02-06 2012-02-07→ ↑2012 ↑all