←2012-02-04 2012-02-05 2012-02-06→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:03 <zzo38> pikhq_: Yes; but you must know rule about state-based effect causing tokens to cease to exist; in my rules, a new object is simply not created because the old object had no initial state.
00:01:44 -!- oerjan has set topic: /fnord/Friendship Is Magic: The Gathering | elliott sacked as bearer of Element of Loyalty, seeking pegasus replacement | http:\\\/\\\/codu.org\\\/logs\\\/_esoteric\\\/ | Now slightly on-topic | Now failing to construct an esolang in THE. WORST. POSSIBLE. WAY./fnord.
00:01:44 <Sgeo> kallisti, update
00:03:34 <zzo38> * You can concede any time except in the middle of an atomic ante effect (I am not sure if the Magic: the Gathering rules mention atomic ante effects). The opponent may optionally continue in order to prove they have overmate.
00:05:05 <zzo38> * Even though cards cannot be bought/sold, each card has a cash value. These values are used to partially determine your score in a tournament.
00:05:09 <Taneb> I've made my page slightly fancier
00:05:14 <oerjan> that phrase has _way_ too many google hits.
00:07:08 <oerjan> ah i thought the google estimate might be off, it gave up at 103 hits
00:07:56 <zzo38> * You can still concede to prevent additional anteing and/or doubling (as in backgammon).
00:08:36 <oerjan> and just before, it estimated more than 3 million.
00:09:08 <Taneb> Everyone look at my site and satisfy my need for acknowledgement!
00:09:13 <Taneb> Page, really
00:09:14 <Taneb> http://www.vandoorn.talktalk.net/esoteric/
00:09:58 <zzo38> I see nothing other than a heading, a single sentence with a link, and four names of esolangs. You need to add more, isn't it?
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00:10:23 <oerjan> very minimalistic.
00:10:37 <Taneb> Click the headings
00:10:55 <Gregor> Taneb: You should make them look clickable.
00:11:19 <Taneb> I'll work on that after I have slept
00:11:23 <Taneb> It's gotten to tomorrow here
00:11:25 <Taneb> Goodnight
00:11:27 <oerjan> ah for once IE greatly enhances my browsing experience
00:11:43 <oerjan> (by showing everything without clicking.)
00:12:11 <Gregor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBgMeunuviE <-- behold and be amazed
00:12:58 <oerjan> in fact it seems to have ignored style completely.
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00:18:16 <Sgeo> "You know those useless snow-covered lands from Ice Age? Not so useless as of Coldsnap — 11 years later!"
00:18:17 <Sgeo> o.O
00:20:48 <pikhq_> They weren't even that useless in Ice Age.
00:20:59 <pikhq_> They've just got much more use after they finished the block.
00:24:59 <ais523> everyone but me hates coldsnap, though
00:25:04 <ais523> besides, coldsnap is part of ice age block
00:25:09 <ais523> and homelands doesn't exist
00:27:37 <Sgeo> WTF http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=980
00:29:53 <ais523> Sgeo: that one was, umm, rather pointless
00:29:57 <ais523> the mechanic's only been used once every again
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00:30:05 <ais523> and it was in an un-set
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00:30:19 <Sgeo> Sounds lengthy
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00:45:14 <Sgeo> With planeswalkers, is it more typical to get their loyalties to 1 + its .. is ultimate the right word, so that it can be used again, or just get it to ultimate and let it die?
00:48:07 <oerjan> ais523: you know about wikipedia customs - would it be a good idea if i simply deleted the code examples from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look-and-say_sequence ? they seem to be starting to breed lately.
00:49:01 <ais523> you could transwiki them to Rosetta Code if the licenses match, I guess
00:49:08 <oerjan> argh
00:49:13 <ais523> no idea what would happen if you simply deleted them
00:49:53 <oerjan> well i just have a vague impression that isn't place for it.
00:50:29 <oerjan> (i also looked in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Computer_science/Manual_of_style_(computer_science))
00:50:53 <oerjan> *the place
00:51:33 <Jafet> Just delete it; if it's nobody's pet, then no one will add it back
00:51:36 <oerjan> an alternative would be simply to remove the javascript one that was added today.
00:51:42 <Jafet> ie. "consensus"
00:51:56 <oerjan> well, there was this guy cleaning up the python version before
00:53:29 <oerjan> well there is a point in the manual about not having multiple versions
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00:56:24 <oerjan> actually it seems i'll be doing nothing.
00:56:47 <zzo38> Taneb: You need to make it fully expanded when JavaScript disabled.
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00:58:18 <Sgeo> "You may think that the “lucky charms” (Crystal Rod, Iron Star, Ivory Cup, Throne of Bone, and Wooden Sphere) are bad, but our testing shows that most beginners are drawn to them and only learn over time that they are not as good as they seem (usually because a more advanced player tells them). That is why we keep including them in the basic set."
00:58:24 <Sgeo> Why are the lucky charms bad?
01:09:10 <Sgeo> If creatures without flying can't attack you (with Form of the Dragon), and Green tends not to have flying...
01:09:23 <Sgeo> Is Form of the Dragon better against Green than against other colors?
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01:28:40 <pikhq> http://www.familyresearchinst.org/ So, my little sister seems to think that these guys do good science.
01:28:45 <ais523> Sgeo: quite possibly; Green generally has decent flying defence, but not flying offense
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01:28:51 <ais523> as in, reach is quite a common ability in green
01:29:14 <pikhq> I am *so* not coming out until I move.
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01:32:19 * pikhq_ mutters at Internet
01:32:22 <oklopol> out of the closet?
01:32:59 <pikhq_> I'm bi and atheist. So, yes. Twice over.
01:33:23 <oklopol> oh i didn't open the page so i figured i just didn't get what you meant
01:33:52 <pikhq_> They think that homosexuality is EVIL. And that they have science to prove it.
01:34:04 <pikhq_> The only journal they were published in isn't peer-reviewed.
01:34:25 <oklopol> yeah i gathered that from "the 'right' to practise homosexuality"
01:34:43 <pikhq_> Also, their only 'scientist', a doctor of psychology, was removed from the APA for ethics violations.
01:35:29 <oklopol> what if your sisters read #esoteric logs
01:35:39 <oklopol> sister reads, although that was accidentally grammatical
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01:36:06 <oklopol> i would've never imagined you bi for some reason
01:36:45 <pikhq_> Oh?
01:37:03 <Jafet> "Screw you, god!"
01:38:23 <oklopol> hmm, perhaps that is because i've never associated you with anything remotely sexual
01:39:14 <oklopol> (unlike most people here who i keep thinking about sexually)
01:39:24 <pikhq_> Ah. Yeah, I don't usually talk about sexual things.
01:39:27 <oerjan> ...right.
01:39:29 <oklopol> yeah
01:39:47 <oklopol> you have taken part in such conversations, but you are then even more academic than usual.
01:40:09 <pikhq_> Part of that is the result of a fundamentalist Christian upbringing.
01:40:29 <pikhq_> Which ~/media/porn loves contradicting.
01:41:07 <oklopol> :P
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01:42:11 <oklopol> well upbringing doesn't always tell you everything, my parents always encouraged me to go my own way and i'm still very careful what i say.
01:42:14 <pikhq> Fuck my Internet with something rusty.
01:42:16 <oklopol> as you've surely noticed
01:42:29 <oklopol> from the color of my penis
01:42:37 <pikhq> :P
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01:45:46 <oklopol> when i was something like 5 my father once told me he would love me no matter what i chose to do with my life. i asked him what if i became a serial killer. he said he'd still love me. (i added some emotion to make this more accessible to non-finns.)
01:46:01 <oklopol> *once
01:47:21 <oklopol> *-once
01:48:52 <oklopol> pikhq: did you read any of their articles?
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01:51:44 <pikhq> Yes.
01:52:08 <pikhq> It's a couple of crackpots.
01:52:11 <oklopol> can you explain their arguments in layman's terms
01:52:20 <oklopol> and what's their definition of evil
01:52:36 <oklopol> does it assume the christian god
01:52:39 <pikhq> Their definition? Judeo-Christian God says "no".
01:53:38 <oklopol> weren't you a gay-bashing christian when you were your sister's age
01:53:42 <pikhq> They ramble on a bit, but basically say shit like "gayness comes from child sex abuse" and "gay sex is more pleasurable than straight sex, therefore if we accept gayness people will die"
01:53:46 <pikhq> Actually, no.
01:54:26 <pikhq> I was a Christian then, but gaybashing? Hah.
01:56:29 <pikhq> It's a little bit hard to be gaybashing when you know most of the gay people at your school.
01:56:44 <oklopol> well gayness is kind of dangerous, what with us running out of people and all.
01:56:56 <oklopol> everyone needs to procreate while we still can
01:57:42 <oklopol> i mean can you believe the moon is still completely empty
01:58:04 <pikhq> Yeah... Need to get a scientist to lie and say there's oil on the moon.
01:58:19 <pikhq> It'll be liberated this time next year!
01:58:50 <oklopol> :D
01:58:54 <oklopol> \o/
01:58:55 <myndzi> |
01:58:55 <myndzi> |\
01:59:28 <oerjan> ^celebrate oil
01:59:28 <fungot> \o| |o| |o/ \m/ \m/ |o/ \o/ \o| \m/ \m/ \o| |o| |o/
01:59:29 <myndzi> | | | `\o/´ | | | `\o/´ | | |
01:59:29 <myndzi> >\ /| /< | /´\ |\ /| | >\ /| /<
01:59:29 <myndzi> /´¯|_) /'\
01:59:29 <myndzi> (_| (_| |_)
02:00:12 <Sgeo> Ah, ok
02:00:21 <Sgeo> We did a Booster Draft
02:00:33 <Sgeo> (Except perhaps not as strict about talking)
02:01:05 <oklopol> pikhq: the problem is obviously no one will believe a single scientist unless he manages to get multiple publications in a peer-reviewed journal.
02:01:40 <pikhq> I think we could get a bunch of astronomers to agree to the claim.
02:01:52 <pikhq> And perhaps an astrophysicist or two.
02:01:57 <oklopol> and perhaps some astrologists
02:02:14 <pikhq> Heck, won't even need to work for *that*.
02:02:25 <pikhq> If it sounds like a neat idea, the astrologists will go with it. :P
02:03:55 <oerjan> the moon is the most fluid planet, of course there's oil there.
02:05:40 <oklopol> i hear there's water there. and not just one molecule, but like hundreds of them.
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02:14:43 <Sgeo> Honestly, I think I really really hate the "collectible" part of CCG
02:14:57 <Sgeo> Paying money on a regular basis to be able to play a game
02:15:01 <pikhq> Agreed. It's the weakest feature of Magic.
02:15:10 <Sgeo> More money = more versitality.
02:15:13 <Sgeo> It's kind of bleh
02:15:43 <pikhq> Particularly the fact that there's a lot of deckspace that most people can't access.
02:15:51 * Sgeo hmms at http://cockatrice.de/
02:16:40 <Sgeo> (which was linked to from reddit)
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02:17:18 <Sgeo> (I know there are other programs like it, but I forget their name offhand)
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02:23:04 <Sgeo> http://magiccards.info/uqc/en/6.html
02:23:12 <Sgeo> That looks hard to deal with
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03:34:23 <zzo38> One of the rules in my new idea of game similar to Magic: the Gathering, is each card is worth a certain number of poker chips, and this value is printed on the card. It has no effect during a duel, but whatever cards you drafted could be traded for poker chips and poker chips for card other people sold to you, and so on. Poker chips earned for winning a duel depends on backgammon doubling, overmate, and so on.
03:36:38 <zzo38> What is your idea of this idea?
03:37:56 <ais523> zzo38: you should write Mornington Crescent rulesets
03:38:52 <zzo38> ais523: I think I might; I do have a map of the London Underground. So, I will do so after I make a larger copy, and make up some cards.
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04:17:59 <zzo38> Ideas for addition optimisation flag for Haskell compiler: -fuse-optimisation-files -fassume-no-error -fcrashable -fauto-strictify -fsafe-core -fall-modules-together -fmemory-threshold -fdisk-threshold -falgebraic -ftry-everything
04:22:14 <ion> -funroll-loops -O9999
04:23:48 <FooBarBazQux> -fdebug-itself
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04:29:19 <oerjan> why would you want to fuse optimisation files anyhow.
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05:09:21 <oerjan> dammit r/physics why have you combined the subreddit links in the sidebar
05:13:06 <oerjan> i _hate_ when things change :(
05:20:12 <oerjan> hm... if i change to visiting r/particlephysics first, that _does_ have four of my other favorites linked in its sidebar
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05:20:24 <oerjan> (what do you _mean_ i could register?)
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10:44:08 <cheater_> darmok
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10:49:05 <Taneb> HTML really could do with a "yesscript" element
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10:50:51 <cheater_> html is a very failed technology
10:51:05 <Taneb> It's pretty widespread
10:52:16 <fizzie> What, someone uses HTML? How bizarre. I thought everyone was all SMIL or whatever.
10:53:10 <cheater_> Taneb: so is HPV-C
10:54:19 <cheater_> fizzie: i'm just waiting for the whole SPDY/Rust stack to close in on html and do away with it
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11:10:42 <Taneb> Everybody look at my updated website at http://www.vandoorn.talktalk.net/esoteric/ so I can fulfil my need for appreciation
11:11:17 <Taneb> And so it can be tested for browsers with Javascript disabled
11:23:14 <cheater_> it is amazing
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11:26:56 <Taneb> Yay
11:27:35 <cheater> Taneb: it is amazing
11:28:16 <cheater> does your brainfucky thing translate to haskell
11:30:09 <Taneb> Not really, haskell doesn't like lambda-y recursion
11:30:21 <Taneb> But it's close
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11:33:51 <cheater> that's too bad
11:34:11 <cheater> i had my hopes up
11:40:12 <Taneb> :t join id
11:40:13 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: m = (->) (m a)
11:40:14 <lambdabot> Probable cause: `id' is applied to too few arguments
11:40:14 <lambdabot> In the first argument of `join', namely `id'
11:40:18 <Taneb> That's why
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11:42:30 <zzo38> I think pattern matching of numbers in Haskell, instead of Num class should be another one: class IntegerLiteral x where { fromInteger :: Integer -> x; eqInteger :: Integer -> x -> Bool; } And the similar thing for fractional number literal too
11:43:15 <cheater> Taneb: that's ok, i still wish there were a bf-like high-level language that compiles to low-level languages like haskell (:
11:43:38 <cheater> zzo38: that was completely out of context and made no sense
11:44:11 <zzo38> cheater: I know, but I have just connected
11:44:48 <cheater> zzo38: :)
11:45:23 <cheater> zzo38: btw, have you looked at type promotion? it's a fairly recent type system extension for haskell
11:45:55 <zzo38> Yes I have looked.
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11:46:40 <Taneb> Is there an option that allows me to construct infinite types?
11:47:23 <cheater> i don't think there is
11:47:35 <cheater> but you might try asking in #haskell
11:48:46 <zzo38> There are many extensions I wanted but that the Haskell people hate
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11:58:23 <Taneb> Apaprently there isn't such an option
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12:05:17 <cheater> Taneb: how did you make it apparent ?
12:07:26 <Taneb> Asked in Haskell
12:08:19 <Taneb> *#haskell
12:08:26 <Taneb> Also searched the flag reference
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12:12:10 <cheater> ah ok cool
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13:30:18 <Phantom_Hoover> cheater, fuck off.
13:36:43 <cheater> Phantom_Hoover: no can do sir
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14:03:11 <kallisti> I wish there was a definite order for numeric whois replies on IRC....
14:18:38 <cheater> why do you?
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14:39:16 <Taneb> Hello
14:39:33 <Taneb> The topic's ///, right?
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14:58:02 <cheater> yes.
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15:18:37 <fizzie> "Please contact the server administrator, [no address given] and inform them of the time the error occurred, --"
15:18:49 <fizzie> I'll get right on that.
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16:37:48 <Taneb> > "test"
16:37:49 <lambdabot> "test"
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18:13:21 <Taneb> God I'm bored
18:13:37 <Taneb> I'm watching /Harry Hill/
18:13:40 <fizzie> Better that than being a bored God. At least for others.
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18:26:31 <Taneb> Why did nobody tell me Antiques Roadshow was on!?
18:27:17 <fizzie> Why would you watch such drivel when the Finnish presidential election is on!?
18:27:31 <fizzie> Though it's a really boring one, there's two candidates and an obvious winner.
18:27:34 <Taneb> Can't get it here
18:27:38 <fizzie> (It's the second round.)
18:27:42 <Taneb> I'm in a valley
18:30:04 <Taneb> Wow, I didn't know that channel existed
18:30:20 <Taneb> Is Sauli Niinisto the right election?
18:31:45 <Taneb> The Finnish election is the only thing in English Language Euronews
18:36:15 <fizzie> Yes.
18:36:28 <fizzie> Sauli is a slimy guy.
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18:41:57 <fizzie> And apparently also the only possible winner, too. (530k uncounted votes, 660k lead.)
18:42:31 <Taneb> Unless the other guy cheats
18:42:56 <Taneb> There's one country in Africa where the president got 23000% or something of the votes
18:43:41 <monqy> that's a lot of votes
18:45:57 <fizzie> In my city, currently Sauli has 66.6% of the votes. Certainly this is a sign.
18:47:08 <Taneb> In my not-city, Guy Opperman got 43.2% of the votes.
18:48:58 <fizzie> Is he the Guy?
18:49:26 <Taneb> Just a wannabe.
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19:05:56 <monqy> `welcome Iambdabot
19:06:08 <HackEgo> Iambdabot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
19:07:36 <monqy> @ask monqy hi
19:07:37 <lambdabot> You can tell yourself!
19:08:25 <Taneb> @ask monqy hi
19:08:25 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
19:08:37 <monqy> @ask Taneb hi
19:08:38 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
19:08:56 <Iambdabot> @ask lambdabot please go away
19:08:57 <lambdabot> Nice try ;)
19:09:26 <Taneb> ^echo fungot
19:09:26 <fungot> fungot fungot
19:09:37 <Taneb> ^echo I am Taneb, who is also Ngevd
19:09:37 <fungot> I am Taneb, who is also Ngevd I am Taneb, who is also Ngevd
19:09:49 <Taneb> ^echo fungot keeps repeating itself.
19:09:49 <fungot> fungot keeps repeating itself. fungot keeps repeating itself.
19:09:55 <Taneb> fungot
19:09:55 <fungot> Taneb: for me, was there ever a method written that could be fnord
19:09:58 <Taneb> ^style
19:09:58 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
19:10:12 <Taneb> ^style alice
19:10:12 <fungot> Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll)
19:10:23 <Taneb> fungot: does this include his mathematical papers?
19:10:24 <fungot> Taneb: " no, no!" said the earl. " what, you know. there's glory for you!"
19:10:24 <shachaf> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg Iambdabot @messages' to read them.
19:10:30 <Taneb> @messages
19:10:30 <lambdabot> You don't have any new messages.
19:10:39 <Taneb> THAT'S WHAT YOU THINK
19:11:30 <Iambdabot> lambdabot said 5m ago: I'm not fit to be in #esoteric please kick me
19:11:59 <monqy> @ask Iambdabot hi
19:12:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
19:12:03 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg Iambdabot @messages' to read them.
19:12:27 <Taneb> @messages
19:12:27 <lambdabot> You don't have any new messages.
19:12:32 <Taneb> Aaaaaaaaaaah
19:12:39 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 0 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to not read them.
19:12:44 <Iambdabot> Iambdabot said 0s ago: wait what
19:12:44 <lambdabot> Iambdabot: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:13:05 <lambdabot> Iambdabot: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
19:13:17 <Taneb> > "what is going on?"
19:13:17 <Gregor> O_O
19:13:18 <lambdabot> "what is going on?"
19:13:27 <monqy> @messages
19:13:28 <lambdabot> Taneb asked 5m 2s ago: hi
19:13:30 <lambdabot> help.
19:13:33 <monqy> hi
19:13:44 <Iambdabot> >
19:13:45 <lambdabot> not an expression: `'
19:13:50 <Taneb> I reckon it's glogbot who's behind the bot rebellion
19:13:53 <lambdabot> > 1 + 1
19:13:59 <Gregor> glogbot is innocent!
19:14:02 <Iambdabot> > >
19:14:03 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `>'
19:14:11 <Taneb> Well, I know it's not Pietbot.
19:14:21 <Iambdabot> > I blame Jafet
19:14:22 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `I'Not in scope: `blame'Not in scope: data c...
19:14:40 <lambdabot> Jafet: i blame u
19:16:51 -!- Pietbot has joined.
19:17:05 <Taneb> Pietbot still doesn't do anything
19:17:24 <monqy> hi
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19:18:31 <Gregor> !c printf("%d\n", 0 || 2);
19:18:36 <EgoBot> 1
19:18:36 <Taneb> )df iiisso
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19:18:50 <Taneb> ^char 41
19:19:05 <Taneb> :t chr
19:19:06 <lambdabot> Int -> Char
19:19:10 <Taneb> > chr 41
19:19:10 <lambdabot> ')'
19:19:17 <Taneb> > chr 32
19:19:18 <lambdabot> ' '
19:19:37 <monqy> is )df iiisso a pietbot deadfish thing
19:19:44 <Taneb> Yes
19:19:52 <Taneb> Or it will be when it works
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19:23:47 <Gregor> Hmmm, does the C spec define the logical operators to always evaluate to 0 or 1, or is that a property of GCC?
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19:26:38 <fizzie> ^chr 41
19:26:38 <fungot> )
19:26:49 <kallisti> Gregor: which C spec?
19:27:42 <fizzie> Gregor: "Each of the operators yields 1 if the specified relation is true and 0 if it is false."
19:27:52 <fizzie> (C99, but I really do think C90 had that property too.)
19:29:14 <fizzie> "Each of the operators < (less than), > (greater than), <= (less than or equal to), and >= (greater than or equal to) shall yield 1 if the specified relation is true and 0 if it is false." (That one C89 draft that's floating around.)
19:29:14 <shachaf> !! is a very old idiom, I think.
19:29:55 <fizzie> Oh, I didn't bother checking !. But it, too.
19:30:45 <fizzie> "The || operator shall yield 1 if either of its operands compare unequal to 0; otherwise, it yields 0" might've been the more relevant quote.
19:31:12 <Gregor> Ohyeah, should've thought about !!.
19:31:22 <Gregor> I'm so glad this channel is a better ##c than ##c X-D
19:31:25 <Deewiant> Heh, so instead of '!!x' you can do 'x || false'?
19:32:05 <Gregor> Well, "false" is only meaningful with the utterly sinful stdbool.h
19:32:12 <Gregor> But x || 0, I suppose.
19:33:00 <fizzie> Or x && 1, obviously.
19:35:25 <fizzie> "Or x ^^ 0 OH WAIT no logical xor."
19:36:49 <Gregor> Logical xor is !=, except that != doesn't have the same properties of C's non-booleans as the other logical operators do, so nya ^^
19:39:20 <kallisti> ...now only if there was a biconditional. :>
19:40:09 <Gregor> Get back to prologin' yer prolog you prolog prolog prologue.
19:40:21 <kallisti> (spoiler: biconditional is == )
19:41:00 <Gregor> With all the same caveats, naturalismo.
19:41:04 <kallisti> yes
19:41:14 <Gregor> But still.
19:41:15 <Gregor> Get back to prologin' yer prolog you prolog prolog prologue.
19:41:31 * kallisti has actually been learning a little Prolog
19:41:35 <kallisti> haven't written anything though.
19:42:22 <kallisti> I've been too busy writing an obscene Haskell-to-C library for the plugin system of a bot written in C.
19:42:47 <kallisti> just to familiarize myself with such things.
19:43:16 <fizzie> #define lop(v00,v01,v10,v11,a,b) (a?(b?v11:v10):(b?v01:v00)) and then you never need to touch a logical operator any more, since instead of a && b you can just write the more clearer lop(0,0,0,1,a,b). Except it doesn't short-circuit right.
19:43:43 <Gregor> PERFECT
19:43:47 <fizzie> Also put some parens in that macro, man.
19:43:58 <kallisti> what does lop stand for.
19:44:02 <Gregor> Logical op, of course
19:44:04 <fizzie> Yes.
19:44:12 <fizzie> Also "lop your hand off".
19:44:21 <kallisti> is it like... a thing
19:44:24 <kallisti> with a name
19:44:26 <kallisti> elsewhere
19:44:29 <kallisti> in maths
19:44:43 <fizzie> I'm sure that wasn't the first use, but probably not like that.
19:45:14 <kallisti> you could call it THE TRUTH TABLE OPERATOR
19:45:38 <Taneb> What if you want a ternary operation?
19:45:47 <fizzie> Or BiTruFu, for binary truth function.
19:46:00 <fizzie> You just define a lop3.
19:46:08 <fizzie> Or TeTruFu, if you like.
19:47:19 <fizzie> Or a int ntrufu(int arity, ...); with <stdarg.h>.
19:48:00 <fizzie> The name fits within the 6 significant-for-external-identifiers characters and all.
19:49:27 <fizzie> ntrufu(2,0,0,0,1,a,b) is objectively speaking 5.25 times better than a&&b.
19:49:47 <fizzie> (Yes, I just counted the number of characters. Are you saying that's not objective?)
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19:53:28 <Taneb> Cunningly, my school has decided to teach us the Statistics 2 module before Statistics 1
19:54:14 <monqy> how cunning
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20:25:32 <ion> In the local polytechnic the mechanics classes constantly used things we had just supposedly learned in the algebra classes. Which was just fine, except that for some reason the algebra classes were exactly one week late from that schedule.
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20:44:00 <oerjan> `log elliott_>
20:44:33 <oerjan> `echo hi
20:44:33 <HackEgo> 2011-10-14.txt:20:23:13: <elliott_> `quote
20:44:37 <HackEgo> hi
20:46:36 <oerjan> `log elliott_>
20:46:58 <HackEgo> 2011-07-29.txt:23:56:38: <elliott_> hmm
20:47:50 <Gregor> oerjan: Trying to imagine a world with elliott in it again?
20:48:59 <Gregor> fizzie: Can we have an elliott mode for fungot?
20:49:00 <fungot> Gregor: the default garbage collector is a refrigerator, thermodynamically speaking. :p
20:49:26 <Gregor> Well that's gotta be verbatim. Too insightful.
20:49:57 <Gregor> ?style
20:49:58 <lambdabot> <no location info>: not an expression: `'
20:50:01 <Gregor> Err
20:50:03 <Gregor> Forgot the prefix >_>
20:50:04 <Gregor> ^style
20:50:04 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
20:50:11 <zzo38> O, yes... I don't know, though... You can still occasionally get proper sentences from random generation too
20:50:33 <zzo38> It still seems out of context though
20:50:47 <Gregor> Well, it wasn't just syntactically correct, it actually makes sense. Of course it's not in context, but taken as an independent statement it's internally sensible.
20:51:09 <zzo38> Gregor: Yes I know, I noticed that too
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20:54:28 <oerjan> <Gregor> Logical xor is !=, except that != doesn't have the same properties of C's non-booleans as the other logical operators do, so nya ^^
20:54:37 <oerjan> wait, what properties does it lack?
20:54:56 <Taneb> I have had a cunning idea
20:54:57 <zzo38> Such as using different nonzero values as boolean I suppose
20:55:33 <Taneb> A dashing esolang
20:55:45 <oerjan> oh hm right it doesn't treat different nonzeros as equivalent
20:58:05 <zzo38> But of course Haskell does have actual boolean type and /= means logical XOR there; I have used it for that purpose, in fact. In C and in BASIC, I have occasionally needed logical XOR (more so than in Haskell), and can use ^ usually in C if I know it is 0 or 1, I can use the ^= operator in C for that purpose.
21:00:12 <oerjan> <ion> In the local polytechnic the mechanics classes constantly used things we had just supposedly learned in the algebra classes. Which was just fine, except that for some reason the algebra classes were exactly one week late from that schedule.
21:00:22 <oerjan> someone _clearly_ hadn't read up on murphy's law.
21:01:34 <Gregor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Bn4m6dQbI O_O
21:11:41 <fizzie> QBasic has the logical IMP operator, that's pretty rare.
21:12:17 <fizzie> (It has the boolean operators NOT, AND, OR, XOR, EQV and IMP.)
21:12:29 <e^[i_pi]> IMP is rare?
21:12:56 <fizzie> As an operator. As far as I know.
21:13:28 <ion> fizzie: Heh, interesting.
21:13:55 <fizzie> Also: "If the expressions evaluate to 0 or -1, a Boolean operation returns 0 or -1 as the result. Because Boolean operators do bit-wise calculations, using values other than 0 for false and -1 for true may produce unexpected results."
21:14:34 <ion> gregor: Yeah, i *love* that one. Too bad it’s out of sync.
21:14:45 <e^[i_pi]> Any programming languages with converse nonimplication?
21:15:15 <e^[i_pi]> a </- b
21:17:52 <zzo38> fizzie: I know about all the operators QBASIC has; although, they all act bitwise (and I do occasionally mix bitwise with logical)
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21:24:51 <Gregor> ion: Yeah, the sync issue is annoying :(
21:25:16 <oerjan> the nice thing about using 0 and -1 is that you don't really need to distinguish logical and bitwise operators
21:25:48 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, and I have used that. Both in BASIC, and in Forth.
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21:55:09 <zzo38> Oops, now my computer says [04:45/02:20] for a music file it is playing
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21:57:10 <Vorpal> <Gregor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Bn4m6dQbI O_O <-- wow... I never heard anything like that on accordion before...
21:58:02 <Vorpal> also that is my favourite movement from Vivaldi's Summer
22:06:43 <Vorpal> night →
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22:15:08 <zzo38> I am now writing a Haskell preprocessor; I wrote much of it already. But not yet completely.
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22:23:39 <zzo38> So please tell me if you have any ideas/suggestions.
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22:39:19 <zzo38> Currently I have: * 0b110100 for binary integer literals. * 0'x' for ASCII/Unicode number of character literals. * {"..."} for WEB-style chunks. * #I to include file in path. * #J for wildcard includes (not currently working). * #D to define macros. * Various built-in macros.
22:53:13 <ion> You should ask that on #haskell.
22:54:57 <oerjan> i think it is rather predictable that #haskell won't like it
22:59:13 <oerjan> if someone hasn't seen it yet http://terrytao.wordpress.com/2012/02/01/every-odd-integer-larger-than-1-is-the-sum-of-at-most-five-primes/
23:05:21 <zzo38> I think people on #haskell hate a lot of my things
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23:09:10 <itidus21> oerjan: does that suggest 5 dimensional objects?
23:10:15 <itidus21> no i am reading too much into it
23:10:50 <oerjan> itidus21: well the (weak goldbach) conjecture is that 3 is enough, actually
23:11:03 <oerjan> primes that is, dunno about dimensions :)
23:11:45 <oerjan> *are
23:12:42 <itidus21> hmmmmm... its ... i was reading the sentence wrong to begin with.. i think i'll just let it go
23:13:06 <oerjan> i'm not even going to delve into the proof enough to find out whether higher dimensional objects were used, but i doubt it.
23:14:28 <oerjan> itidus21: well half the comments on reddit were about the title being unambiguous, so nothing to worry about :P
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23:19:44 * kallisti can't wait for -XGeneralizedAlgebraicDataPolyKindInstanceFamilies
23:21:23 <oerjan> s/PolyKind/PolyConstraintKind/
23:23:22 <kallisti> soon to be incorporated into the -XOneMillionSpecialSubsetsOfDependentTyping extension.
23:23:48 <oerjan> nice rant http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/p5x53/every_odd_number_greater_than_1_is_the_sum_of_at/c3n1n14
23:25:05 <oerjan> kallisti: nah, oleg will prove you can actually embed full dependent typing into them
23:25:23 <oerjan> not in a way sane humans can _use_, though
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23:44:13 <zzo38> How many people hate my Haskell preprocessor, already?
23:45:11 <oklopol> at most 53, on this channel
23:45:38 <oerjan> i don't hate it. i probably wouldn't use it, though.
23:45:54 <oklopol> i don't use haskell do i don't anything your haskell preprocessor
23:46:12 <oerjan> also oklopol no use grammar
23:46:30 <oklopol> *son't
23:46:50 * oerjan swat oklopol -----###
23:46:50 <zzo38> OK, probably you won't use it; but would you use any Haskell preprocessor at all?
23:47:43 <oerjan> hardly.
23:47:49 <oklopol> i only use postprocessors that transform the program after its effects have been processed my brain.
23:48:03 <oklopol> for instance beer and whiskey
23:49:29 <zzo38> I do suppose, I could later on, write a Haskell postprocessor as well, using the compiler plugins feature, maybe
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23:54:20 <kallisti> ......god damnit irssi
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23:56:50 <ColonelJ> ok I've been trying as hard as possible to make this language less esoteric but no one's buying it yet http://pastebin.com/hD890kVg
23:58:11 <ColonelJ> it's stack based and factorable like a concatenative language
23:59:11 <ColonelJ> indentation based like python to save on too many extra chars
23:59:19 <kallisti> sorry, you'll have to direct inquiries of that nature to our sister channel #un-esoteric
23:59:31 <ColonelJ> not esoteric enough?
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