←2012-03-02 2012-03-03 2012-03-04→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:25 <shachaf> ^swat hmm
00:00:25 * fungot swats hmm -----###.
00:00:43 <oerjan> ^def swat bf +.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[.,]<<.>+.....<+++...-------------------------.[-]+.
00:00:43 <fungot> Defined.
00:00:50 <oerjan> ^swat now
00:00:50 * fungot swats now -----###.
00:00:53 <oerjan> argh
00:01:11 <oerjan> why the final . ?
00:01:15 * elliott knows why.
00:01:23 <oerjan> oh hm
00:01:32 <oerjan> ^def swat bf +.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[.,]<<.>+.....<+++...[-]+.
00:01:32 <fungot> Defined.
00:01:36 <oerjan> ^swat now
00:01:37 * fungot swats now -----###
00:02:14 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
00:03:16 <elliott> ^def swat swat swat
00:03:16 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:03:48 <oerjan> ^def swat bf +.++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-]>-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[--------------------------------[++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]],]<<.>+.....<+++...[-]+.
00:03:49 <fungot> Defined.
00:03:54 <oerjan> ^swat test
00:03:55 * fungot swats test -----###
00:03:58 <oerjan> ^swat elliott
00:03:58 * fungot swats elliott -----###
00:04:02 <oerjan> excellent
00:04:11 <shachaf> ^swat elliott
00:04:11 * fungot swats elliott -----###
00:04:18 <shachaf> Yep, it works.
00:04:18 <elliott> ^def swat ul !
00:04:18 <fungot> Defined.
00:04:39 <zzo38> ^def swat forth 1 EMIT ." ACTION swats " [BEGIN] KEY EMIT KEY? 0= [UNTIL] ." -----###"
00:04:39 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:04:59 <oerjan> i think elliott has a negative feeling about ^swat for some incomprehensible reason
00:05:00 <zzo38> ^def swat ul
00:05:00 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:05:07 <zzo38> ^def swat sh
00:05:07 <shachaf> ^list languages
00:05:07 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:05:09 <elliott> I hereby mandate that ^swat can only return under that Forth form.
00:05:21 <elliott> oerjan will just have to implement Forth in Befunge-98 if he wants it.
00:05:39 <zzo38> ^def swat false
00:05:39 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:05:47 <olsner> looks like lots of FUN has been had in the channel tonight
00:05:57 <oerjan> zzo38: only bf and ul are implemented languages
00:06:42 <zzo38> oerjan: O, there is no language extensions either?
00:07:25 <oerjan> zzo38: they're both implemented in funge-98 in fungot's source
00:07:25 <fungot> oerjan: i'm having a big bang theory!!! you die...", and then having each entry be a 16-bit cons cell. also popular: ' lst' for lists.
00:07:46 <shachaf> ^def swat bf +1 EMIT ." ACTION swats "++++++++++[BEGIN>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-] KEY EMIT KEY? 0= >-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[UNTIL--------------------------------[++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]],]<< .">+.....<+++...[-]+. -----###"
00:07:46 <fungot> Defined.
00:07:51 <shachaf> ^swat elliott
00:07:51 * fungot swats elliott -----###
00:08:01 <elliott> ^def swat bf
00:08:01 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
00:08:03 <elliott> ^def swat bf swat
00:08:03 <fungot> Defined.
00:08:09 <oerjan> shachaf: very elegant
00:08:34 <shachaf> elliott just hates.
00:08:42 <zzo38> Are you trying to cinfuse things?
00:09:02 <shachaf> ^elliott
00:09:13 <oerjan> `? elliott
00:09:16 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
00:09:30 <elliott> oerjan: btw fix http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=AutoMouse&curid=1235&diff=30864&oldid=30819 thanks
00:09:31 <shachaf> `? zzo38
00:09:34 <HackEgo> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
00:10:37 <zzo38> It is probably easier to implement Forth without GNU extensions, anyways
00:11:01 <shachaf> ^forth
00:11:05 <shachaf> @where forth
00:11:05 <lambdabot> I know nothing about forth.
00:11:09 <shachaf> @go forth
00:11:09 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: google googleit do
00:11:14 <shachaf> @do
00:11:14 <lambdabot> ()
00:11:19 <shachaf> @do (,)
00:11:19 <lambdabot> (,)
00:11:23 <shachaf> @do x >>= x
00:11:23 <lambdabot> do { a <- x; x a}
00:11:37 <elliott> @type ?x >>= ?x
00:11:37 <lambdabot> Top level:
00:11:37 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: a = a -> b
00:11:38 <lambdabot> Expected type: a -> a
00:11:56 <shachaf> In other words, we need infinite types support.
00:26:08 <elliott> OCaml has that.
00:27:11 <elliott> http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/124343/how-to-fix-it-if-your-variables-arent-passing
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00:46:50 <oerjan> elliott: it was removed?
00:47:09 <oerjan> also mm, waffles
00:47:53 <shachaf> ^swat swat
00:48:03 <elliott> oerjan: You missed it.
00:48:16 <shachaf> ^def swat bf +1 EMIT ." ACTION swats "++++++++++[BEGIN>++++++>++++++++++>+++>++++<<<<-] KEY EMIT KEY? 0= >-.++.+++++++++++++++++.-----------.++++++.-.>>-.<+++++.++++.<+++++++++++++++++++.>---.-.>.>>,[UNTIL--------------------------------[++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]],]<< .">+.....<+++...[-]+. -----###"
00:48:16 <fungot> Defined.
00:48:21 <shachaf> ^swat elliott
00:48:21 * fungot swats elliott -----###
00:48:25 <oerjan> elliott: AAA
00:48:28 * elliott screenshots.
00:48:55 <oerjan> yay
00:49:21 <elliott> http://ompldr.org/vY3d4cA
00:50:25 <oerjan> fancy
00:52:32 <elliott> fizzie: Pingyping.
00:53:28 * elliott gets an ingenious idea.
00:54:45 <elliott> > "abc" >>= flip replicateM_ [0..]
00:54:46 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
00:54:46 <lambdabot> against inferred type...
00:54:56 <elliott> hmm
00:55:06 <elliott> > [0..] >>= (`replicateM` "abc")
00:55:06 <lambdabot> ["","a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","a...
00:55:28 <elliott> > [1..] >>= (`replicateM` "abc")
00:55:29 <lambdabot> ["a","b","c","aa","ab","ac","ba","bb","bc","ca","cb","cc","aaa","aab","aac"...
00:55:48 <oerjan> elliott: i'm pretty sure that one's been done here before
00:55:49 <elliott> [1..] >>= (`replicateM` "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz012346789")
00:55:53 <elliott> > [1..] >>= (`replicateM` "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz012346789")
00:55:54 <lambdabot> ["a","b","c","d","e","f","g","h","i","j","k","l","m","n","o","p","q","r","s...
00:56:15 <shachaf> 16:48 < copumpkin> > [0..] >>= (`replicateM` ['a'..'z']) -- fine
00:56:59 <oerjan> also some times with =<< iirc
01:01:28 <elliott> Woo, it works
01:02:03 <elliott> Nobody minds if I wildly abuse solidity's network connection, right?
01:04:27 <elliott> That's good.
01:06:35 <oerjan> well it's your connection
01:09:39 -!- itidus21 has joined.
01:10:06 <elliott> `welcome itidus21
01:10:09 <HackEgo> itidus21: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
01:10:34 <itidus21> now i know which type of esoteric this is
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01:12:10 <elliott> `@ itidus21 ? esoteric
01:12:13 <HackEgo> itidus21: This channel is about programming -- for the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.
01:19:12 <oerjan> "An `MVar`"
01:19:13 <oerjan> is like a burri… wait, wrong tutorial.
01:19:29 * oerjan strangles irssi
01:24:28 <elliott> oerjan: wat
01:25:50 <elliott> > replicateM 3 "abc"
01:25:51 <lambdabot> ["aaa","aab","aac","aba","abb","abc","aca","acb","acc","baa","bab","bac","b...
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01:35:58 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:37:11 <oerjan> elliott: "An `MVar` is like a burri… wait, wrong tutorial."
01:37:25 <oerjan> quote from parallel haskell digest
01:37:47 <elliott> ah
01:38:36 * oerjan also wants to strangle the haskell designers for not making a raw string syntax
01:39:04 <elliott> oerjan: use a TH qq package?
01:39:46 <oerjan> elliott: i couldn't find an appropriate one.
01:40:53 <oerjan> i made such a module myself though
01:40:53 <elliott> oerjan: there's an ehird SO answer for that(tm)
01:40:54 <zzo38> I did put , on my own idea of programming language, the syntax for string literals that can be heredocs. Possibly later version of GHC might also add extensions for such things
01:41:29 <elliott> oerjan: let me dig it up :P
01:41:46 <elliott> oerjan: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8956801/which-haskell-library-for-interpolated-strings (I cover ones that can't do interpolation too)
01:41:53 <elliott> though with an interpolated one you only have to worry about, like, ${ and |]
01:41:59 <elliott> which are probably unlikely strings for you
01:42:24 <oerjan> indeed those are not legal Qdeql syntax :P
01:42:49 <oerjan> well, except that Qdeql treats everything else as comments.
01:43:03 * elliott has ~10 minutes to learn how to use screen
01:43:13 <elliott> elliott@solidity:~$ screen
01:43:13 <elliott> $TERM too long - sorry.
01:43:13 <elliott> elliott@solidity:~$ echo $TERM
01:43:13 <elliott> rxvt-unicode-256color
01:43:24 <oerjan> i suppose interpolation _might_ be nice
01:44:39 <elliott> oerjan: how do you detach a screen session
01:44:49 <oerjan> i have never used screen
01:44:51 <quintopia> ^a d is my preferred method
01:45:18 <elliott> quintopia: ok, where does that put the file thing?
01:45:25 <elliott> i.e. how do i re-attach
01:45:43 <quintopia> screen -r
01:45:48 <elliott> thank you
01:45:48 <quintopia> reattaches last session
01:45:53 <elliott> that works even past ssh reconnects, right?
01:46:01 <quintopia> yes
01:46:05 <elliott> thank you
01:47:03 <quintopia> if you will be attaching from multiple devices, and don't want to have to remember whether you detached or not
01:47:06 <quintopia> use screen -dr
01:47:21 <quintopia> (detach from elsewhere and reattach here)
01:48:02 <elliott> i won't be
01:48:19 <elliott> this is just so I can leave mplayer running without having to be connected all the time, and still be able to check on it easily
01:48:25 <quintopia> gotcha
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01:49:49 <oerjan> heh string-qq looks almost like what i wrote
01:50:07 <oerjan> with a few enhancements
02:00:53 <oerjan> elliott: btw i think i didn't find your answer earlier because i was searching for raw strings, which are not mentioned on that page
02:01:53 <oerjan> while there are a couple other answers telling haskell doesn't have them
02:02:42 <elliott> ah
02:03:58 <Jafet> I like my strings medium rare
02:05:18 <oerjan> Jafet: it's a bit annoying when you're trying to quote snippets from an esolang which uses \ all over the place
02:05:48 <Jafet> interact show
02:06:26 <oerjan> Jafet: by quoting i mean "but into a haskell program"
02:06:39 <Jafet> Exactly.
02:06:43 <elliott> oerjan: you could just read from a file, you know
02:06:47 <elliott> with unsafePerformIO if you must
02:07:06 <oerjan> elliott: um part of my annoyance is also about having to make this more than one file
02:07:16 * oerjan hasn't actually started writing the program yet though
02:07:19 <elliott> ok :P
02:10:40 <oerjan> ok so i got the idea to click on a random page on the wiki to see if there was something to improve.
02:10:44 <oerjan> i hit Esme.
02:11:24 <zzo38> Perhaps use a kind of preprocessor
02:11:30 <elliott> oerjan: better improve it!
02:11:37 <elliott> i suggest e.g. blanking the page
02:11:50 <elliott> i do the random cleanup thing too
02:11:54 <elliott> it's rewarding
02:12:28 <zzo38> I think you should leave it there. It is one of the joke languages
02:12:38 <oerjan> i think there is a certain point of view from which the Esme page is already perfect.
02:14:21 * oerjan hits random again instead
02:20:10 <elliott> oerjan: what did you hit :D
02:20:16 <oerjan> INCAL
02:20:31 <oerjan> zzo38: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/incal/ doesn't load
02:20:31 <elliott> wow, it doesn't even have an introduction
02:20:45 <elliott> oerjan: it is probably obsoleted in favour of a gopher link :P
02:21:25 <itidus21> wow it earned the Shameful category
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02:23:26 <elliott> itidus21: what, Esme?
02:23:27 <elliott> it created it.
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02:23:50 <itidus21> that is quite a feat
02:24:15 <itidus21> in a place where obfuscated code is celebrated
02:24:42 <elliott> it's not obfuscated.
02:24:44 <elliott> it's just meaningless
02:25:24 <itidus21> wow
02:25:50 <elliott> hmm, this mp3 file is going to end up at like a gigabyte.
02:25:55 <elliott> or two.
02:26:02 <itidus21> so the feat is to make a full sized article about an esolang which actually has no meaning
02:27:57 * oerjan swats zzo38 for being another person prohibiting the web archive
02:28:03 <itidus21> ###b#ott#les#of#b#eer o#n t#he #w#all#, ###lovely ###[[Esme]]ralda ###o#n ###t#h#e #b#ee#r...
02:28:04 <oerjan> *+ -----###
02:28:16 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
02:29:01 <itidus21> to think that i could accidently catch the bus with the person who wrote "###b#ott#les#of#b#eer o#n t#he #w#all#, ###lovely ###[[Esme]]ralda ###o#n ###t#h#e #b#ee#r..."
02:29:13 <elliott> `addquote <itidus21> to think that i could accidently catch the bus with the person who wrote "###b#ott#les#of#b#eer o#n t#he #w#all#, ###lovely ###[[Esme]]ralda ###o#n ###t#h#e #b#ee#r..."
02:29:16 <HackEgo> 814) <itidus21> to think that i could accidently catch the bus with the person who wrote "###b#ott#les#of#b#eer o#n t#he #w#all#, ###lovely ###[[Esme]]ralda ###o#n ###t#h#e #b#ee#r..."
02:29:24 <elliott> oerjan: technically, everyone. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/robots.txt
02:31:00 <oerjan> oh so even google isn't allowed
02:31:26 <elliott> oerjan: you must have missed zzo38 suggesting blocking google as the solution to all google-related problems.
02:31:37 <oerjan> well at least the page is a little prettier now
02:32:00 <elliott> yay
02:32:49 <oerjan> oh hm forgot the introduction
02:36:10 <elliott> hard to write without any more information...
02:36:31 <NihilistDandy> Did David-Wynn: Miller make the news recently?
02:38:21 <elliott> Only the #esoteric news.
02:38:55 <Friendship> GREGOR-FRIENDSHIP-RICHARDS: also makes #esoteric news regularly.
02:40:27 <NihilistDandy> lol
02:41:39 <NihilistDandy> Also, gopher?
02:42:13 -!- tikfreenode has changed nick to Tiktalik.
02:42:36 <NihilistDandy> I didn't think anyone *ever* used that :|
02:44:48 <elliott> NihilistDandy: You seem to be assuming zzo38 is a member of everyone.
02:45:23 <zzo38> Actually a few other people also use gopher
02:46:39 <oerjan> SCA members, probably
02:46:47 <elliott> :D
02:47:34 <elliott> hmm, why did the dollar recover from a few years ago? i distinctly recall it being <0.6 gbp
02:48:19 <pikhq_> elliott: That might have actually been the GBP failing.
02:49:35 <oerjan> pikhq_: elliott clearly means this in the "Storm in the channel; continent isolated" sense.
02:49:49 <elliott> pikhq_: That's impossible.
02:50:01 <elliott> The GBP can never fall.
02:50:06 <pikhq_> 1 USD is still ~0.75 EUR...
02:50:27 <zzo38> Is it all relative?
02:50:40 <pikhq_> zzo38: Yup. Gotta love fiat currency.
02:51:17 <elliott> pikhq_: Anyway, gimme ten pounds.
02:51:23 <elliott> It's the least you could do, as an American.
02:51:46 <quintopia> elliott: as an american, it is my duty to offer you ten pounds worth of work
02:52:05 <quintopia> so about an hour's worth
02:52:06 <pikhq_> Also, USD is still at near parity with the CAD.
02:52:46 * pikhq_ gives elliott 4.5 kilograms
02:53:28 <elliott> pikhq_: OK now 10 GBP.
02:54:21 <elliott> pikhq_: 10 dollars of your American currency thank you.
02:54:30 <shachaf> GGGGGGGGGGBP
02:54:53 <pikhq_> Oh, fine, sure, that's worth approximately nothing.
02:55:06 * pikhq_ gives elliott enough cash to buy a single stick of gum
02:55:44 <elliott> Wait, it'll actually be more like 300 megabytes, not 2 gigabytes.
02:56:10 -!- NihilistDandy has quit.
03:01:13 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy UPDATE
03:09:17 <elliott> http://groups.google.com/group/haskell-cafe/browse_thread/thread/ec9910ce56eb9187 mcquary rolls in his grave
03:16:12 <Sgeo> mcquary?
03:17:13 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signature_block#E-mail_and_Usenet, see McQuary limit
03:24:35 <elliott> @peng
03:24:36 <lambdabot> pong
03:25:48 <oerjan> elliott: i noticed that guy too
03:26:08 <oerjan> although top posters annoy me more, for essentially the same reason
03:27:16 <Sgeo> @pong
03:27:16 <lambdabot> pong
03:27:20 <Sgeo> @pong
03:27:20 <lambdabot> pong
03:27:40 <oerjan> @pony
03:27:40 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: ping pointy
03:27:43 <oerjan> oops
03:28:10 <Sgeo> @piny
03:28:10 <lambdabot> pong
03:28:22 <Sgeo> @peny
03:28:22 <lambdabot> pong
03:31:35 <elliott> @pet
03:31:36 <lambdabot> Defined.
03:31:38 <elliott> help
03:31:48 <Sgeo> @peni
03:31:48 <lambdabot> pong
03:32:16 * Sgeo is tempted to try something, but that's kind of weird
03:32:37 <Sgeo> Doesn't work anyway
03:32:56 <elliott> what kind of monster would type @peniq
03:37:02 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy UPDATE
03:38:03 <monqy> oh no
03:52:18 <elliott> STOP AMERICAN
04:03:19 <Friendship> @pigs
04:03:19 <lambdabot> pong
04:03:43 <Friendship> @fink
04:03:43 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: kind ping
04:03:46 <Friendship> Foo
04:03:54 <Friendship> @pint
04:03:54 <lambdabot> pong
04:04:03 <Friendship> @pines
04:04:03 <lambdabot> pong
04:04:13 <Friendship> @point
04:04:13 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: pointful pointless pointy
04:04:15 <Friendship> Grr
04:04:52 <Friendship> @ink
04:04:52 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: ask id kind ping wn
04:04:59 <Friendship> *shakes fist*
04:05:12 <oerjan> @paint
04:05:12 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: part ping pointy
04:05:15 <Sgeo> @pointy
04:05:15 <lambdabot> ()
04:05:18 <Sgeo> @pointy foo
04:05:18 <lambdabot> foo
04:05:23 <Sgeo> @pointy foo bar
04:05:23 <lambdabot> foo bar
04:05:26 <Sgeo> ?
04:05:29 <Sgeo> @pointy foo . bar
04:05:29 <lambdabot> (\ c -> foo (bar c))
04:05:41 <Sgeo> Oh, duh
04:05:52 <oerjan> @dung
04:05:52 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: bug ping run
04:05:56 <Sgeo> @pointy I want to have your babies
04:05:56 <lambdabot> I want to have your babies
04:06:05 <oerjan> @bing
04:06:05 <lambdabot> pong
04:06:23 <Friendship> @pointy `echo hi
04:06:23 <lambdabot> Parse error at "hi" (column 7)
04:06:25 <Friendship> Foo
04:06:33 <Friendship> Didn't know if ` would be meaningful X-D
04:07:02 <Sgeo> `echo @pointy I am going to slap Friendship
04:07:05 <HackEgo> ​@pointy I am going to slap Friendship
04:07:07 <oerjan> not in that position
04:07:20 <Sgeo> Invisible space?
04:07:27 <Friendship> Sgeo: Botloop avoidance WOMP WOMP
04:08:03 <Sgeo> @pointy `echo`
04:08:04 <lambdabot> Parse error at end of input
04:08:18 <Sgeo> Why at end of input? Since when did ` mean something in Haskell?
04:09:15 <elliott> Sgeo: since forever
04:09:21 <elliott> `div`
04:09:24 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: div`: not found
04:09:30 <Sgeo> Oh
04:09:36 <Sgeo> Right
04:09:44 <Friendship> OH
04:09:45 <Friendship> Duh
04:09:52 <elliott> @pointy +
04:09:52 <lambdabot> (+)
04:09:54 <elliott> lol
04:10:07 <elliott> unpl and pl are a bit
04:10:11 <elliott> idiosyncratic with syntax
04:10:13 <oerjan> @pointy this `echo` sucks
04:10:14 <lambdabot> (echo this sucks)
04:10:19 <elliott> <Friendship> Sgeo: Botloop avoidance WOMP WOMP
04:10:23 <elliott> Friendship: Which caused me to use fungot instead.
04:10:23 <fungot> elliott: ( including the procedure)
04:10:30 <elliott> Friendship: Yer losin' customers.
04:10:48 <elliott> @pointy the `including` procedure
04:10:48 <lambdabot> (including the procedure)
04:10:56 <Friendship> elliott: HackEgo is playing the world's smallest violin.
04:15:41 <elliott> Friendship: It's too slow to manage anything bigger, eh?
04:16:11 <Friendship> `echo :'(
04:16:14 <HackEgo> ​:'(
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04:24:50 <elliott> Friendship: I suppose I shouldn't talk, when botte's bitcoins would have been stolen, did it exist.
04:25:14 <elliott> Its precious, precious bitcoins.
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04:41:43 <elliott> `welcome itidus22
04:41:45 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:41:47 <HackEgo> itidus22: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
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05:23:21 <itidus22> thanks
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05:32:03 <shachaf> elliott: DINOSAUR COMICS ARE THE DEVIL
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06:07:09 <Sgeo> "All online casinos use an RNG, but not all RNGs are the same. Of course, for security reasons, we can’t tell you exactly how ours works; but we can give you an idea: "
06:09:44 <madbrain> eheh
06:11:15 <Sgeo> https://www.uwinpoker.com/en.integrity.shuffler
06:11:24 <Sgeo> They apparently reshuffle the deck after each draw
06:11:53 <Sgeo> That sounds like a setup for something that sounds more secure but for subtle reasons isn't so random. I have no idea though.
06:12:17 <MDude> SO it's not "we've got a big chunk of uranium and a lot of geger counter pointed at it"?
06:12:32 <Sgeo> MDude, sounds like they're simulating it.
06:12:46 <Sgeo> Well, simulating a different quantum thing
06:13:01 <Sgeo> Which makes little to no sense, because the simulation itself needs random numbers from somewhere.
06:13:10 <MDude> Looking at it, guess thet do have that.
06:13:39 <madbrain> The easy way is to sample sound card noise
06:14:13 <madbrain> and then randomify it further
06:14:30 <MDude> I'm not sure what the simulation would even be other than calling for a random bit when the photon hits hte half-mirror.
06:14:42 <Sgeo> "Hole cards are only visible to the players that hold them. Even our floor manager cannot see what you are holding until the game is finished."
06:14:53 <Sgeo> That sounds like a recipe for trusting the client.
06:15:11 <Sgeo> Unless they're just talking interface-wise.
06:15:24 <madbrain> simpler guess: the page is all bullshit
06:15:51 <Sgeo> I was just talking to their live support too, but closed out. Maybe tomorrow I'll bring this up to them, see what they say.
06:16:24 <Sgeo> "The “black box” shuffler is itself set within a totally secure system.
06:16:24 <Sgeo> The only thing which can enter our shuffler is a secure, coded request for a freshly shuffled deck of cards.
06:16:24 <Sgeo> The only thing which can come out of our shuffler is a shuffled deck of cards."
06:16:32 <madbrain> I'd guess they use some hardware source of randomness coupled with a statistically reliable programmatic RNG
06:16:33 <MDude> Random numbers are generated by a giant brain hooked up to the various computers via large cables sunk deep into it's frontal lobes.
06:19:23 <Sgeo> "Just to be sure, the Shuffler monitors the output of the RNG for randomness.
06:19:24 <Sgeo> "
06:19:37 <Sgeo> What happens when, just randomly, the output looks non-random?
06:19:54 <Sgeo> Fails the statistical tests, or whatever.
06:20:24 <madbrain> well
06:20:39 <madbrain> if your test is good, the chaces of that are ridiculously low
06:21:06 <MDude> Pull out another number and xor them?
06:24:34 <madbrain> well, it's gotta have at least one source of real entropy
06:24:49 <madbrain> though timing probably works
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06:26:13 <madbr> good luck predicting the cpu cycle counter's last bit on a server for instance
06:26:47 <madbr> hmm
06:26:56 <madbr> or maybe not
06:28:31 <MDude> Build two machine learning algorithms, there one tries to predict the output of the other, which itself attempts to avoid being predicted.
06:29:10 <madbr> just have them play rock paper scissors
06:29:50 <elliott> MDude: reminds me of that self-avoiding sequence i implemented
06:30:00 <MDude> I would but 3 isn't a power of 2.
06:30:23 <MDude> Ellitt: Neat, what did you implement it in/for?
06:31:27 <elliott> it was python for no real reason, and for: because <whatever name fax was using at the time> proposed it in-channel :P
06:31:40 <elliott> basically at each step it constructed a markov chain of increasing order from its existing output
06:31:51 <elliott> and then picked the /least/ likely bit to follow the $order bits it just outputted
06:32:33 <madbr> you could do it with burrows wheeler transform too I guess :D
06:33:14 <MDude> I'm not really familiar with the details of that kind of stuff.
06:33:23 <MDude> Like what order means exactly.
06:33:34 <MDude> But I'll need ot go to bed before learning up on it.
06:33:45 <MDude> night
06:33:48 <elliott> order just means how many previous symbols you use
06:34:03 <MDude> =Ah, ok.
06:34:04 <elliott> a markov chain is just a map of $order previous symbols to every next symbol seen and its probability (relative to every sequence it's seen)
06:34:07 <elliott> night :)
06:34:33 <MDude> I thought order had to do with the probabiltiy function somehow.
06:34:40 <MDude> thanks
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07:11:36 <Taneb> Hello!
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07:16:48 <Sgeo> macroexpand does not in fact expand all macros
07:16:51 * Sgeo is not pleased.
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07:20:59 <Jafet> macroexpanddammit
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07:27:08 <zzo38> I did once think of "card dealing protocol", where the server does not need to know what game you are playing; however, all clients must know and will receive some information from the server whenever a card is dealt, and possibly private. Depending on the game, you might require all clients to check with the server after the game is finish, to know that you are not cheating.
07:33:16 <Sgeo> swank-backend:macroexpand-all works I guess
07:33:29 <Sgeo> I feel uneasy with the notion of using SWANK as a library
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07:47:00 <Jafet> @dict swank
07:47:00 <lambdabot> Supported dictionary-lookup commands:
07:47:00 <lambdabot> all-dicts devils easton elements foldoc gazetteer hitchcock jargon lojban vera web1913 wn world02
07:47:00 <lambdabot> Use "dict-help [cmd...]" for more.
07:47:05 <Jafet> @wn swank
07:47:06 <lambdabot> *** "swank" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
07:47:06 <lambdabot> swank
07:47:06 <lambdabot> adj 1: imposingly fashionable and elegant; "a swank apartment"
07:47:06 <lambdabot> [syn: {swank}, {swanky}]
07:47:06 <lambdabot> n 1: elegance by virtue of being fashionable [syn: {chic},
07:47:08 <lambdabot> [5 @more lines]
07:47:22 <Phantom_Hoover> @more
07:47:22 <lambdabot> {chicness}, {chichi}, {modishness}, {smartness},
07:47:23 <lambdabot> {stylishness}, {swank}, {last word}]
07:47:23 <lambdabot> v 1: display proudly; act ostentatiously or pretentiously; "he
07:47:23 <lambdabot> showed off his new sports car" [syn: {flaunt}, {flash},
07:47:23 <lambdabot> {show off}, {ostentate}, {swank}]
07:47:28 <oerjan> ^chr 191
07:47:28 <fungot>
07:47:46 <oerjan> ^chr 159
07:47:47 <fungot>
07:47:49 <oerjan> er
07:47:53 <elliott> ^chr 2348234
07:47:53 <fungot>
07:48:07 <oerjan> > 256 - 97
07:48:08 <lambdabot> 159
07:48:15 <oerjan> hm
07:48:35 <oerjan> something is wrong with my . translation
07:48:45 <elliott> oerjan: i wouldn't rely on fungot for things that aren't pure ascii
07:48:46 <fungot> elliott: the new fnord
07:49:11 <elliott> :D
07:49:14 <elliott> `addquote <fungot> elliott: the new fnord
07:49:15 <fungot> elliott: what is the point? nothing changed.
07:49:17 <oerjan> elliott: well irssi fallbacks to latin-1 or so
07:49:23 <HackEgo> 815) <fungot> elliott: the new fnord
07:49:27 <elliott> `delquote 815
07:49:32 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <fungot> elliott: the new fnord
07:49:33 <elliott> `addquote <fungot> elliott: the new fnord <fungot> elliott: what is the point? nothing changed.
07:49:33 <fungot> elliott: we're all like that. does that fit into the day i decide to use ' fdisk /dev/ hda
07:49:36 <HackEgo> 815) <fungot> elliott: the new fnord <fungot> elliott: what is the point? nothing changed.
07:49:45 <elliott> oerjan: yes but i still wouldn't trust it.
07:50:06 <oerjan> right the neighbors let out the dog, mental work immediately becomes impossible.
07:50:52 <oerjan> in any case, i was just trying to print an 'a'
07:51:14 <oerjan> and some other character appeared instead. also the loop quit unexpectedly.
07:51:49 <oerjan>
07:51:53 <oerjan> hm
07:51:57 <oerjan> ^asc ▒
07:51:57 <fungot> 226.
07:52:09 <oerjan> ^chr 226
07:52:09 <fungot>
07:52:31 <oerjan> > "▒"
07:52:32 <lambdabot> "\9618"
07:52:36 <oerjan> aha
07:52:46 <oerjan> (wtf?)
07:53:41 <oerjan> oh less shows it as <FF>
07:54:23 <elliott> oerjan: have you considered investing in earmuffs
07:55:19 <oerjan> hm. a bit.
07:57:21 <Madoka-Kaname> ^asc 1
07:57:22 <fungot> 49.
07:57:23 <Madoka-Kaname> ^asc 14
07:57:23 <fungot> 49.
07:57:32 <Madoka-Kaname> ^ か
07:57:39 <Madoka-Kaname> ^asc か
07:57:39 <fungot> 227.
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07:58:00 <Madoka-Kaname> > (ord $ 'か') % 256
07:58:00 <lambdabot> 12363 % 256
07:58:03 <Madoka-Kaname> ...
07:58:06 <Madoka-Kaname> > (ord $ 'か') `mod` 256
07:58:06 <lambdabot> 75
07:58:11 <Madoka-Kaname> Eh?
07:58:12 <Madoka-Kaname> Oh right
07:58:17 <Madoka-Kaname> Things are being sent in UTF-8
08:05:57 <oerjan> > 223 + 97
08:05:58 <lambdabot> 320
08:06:09 <oerjan> > 223 + 32
08:06:10 <lambdabot> 255
08:06:30 <oerjan> ok fixed one bug...
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08:10:56 <oerjan> oh whoops i forgot that \ adds two 0's again
08:12:42 <oerjan> yay it printed the 'a'
08:12:54 <oerjan> but why did it still quit the loop
08:14:00 <Jafet> Someone should make a language called Lime Slices
08:15:38 <elliott> the term is trilime tyvm
08:18:01 <oerjan> yay ,[.] seems to be working
08:18:29 <Jafet> Hm, no one's named their language Sublime
08:19:01 <elliott> oerjan: :D
08:19:39 <oerjan> now to add an extra , (it's not trivial because the first one cheats by having an already zeroed cell)
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08:29:33 <oerjan> ,[.,] is working
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08:32:59 <elliott> :D
08:33:02 <elliott> what about +[>+]?
08:33:23 <oerjan> http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/qdeql/cat
08:33:32 <elliott> wow that's pretty
08:34:11 <oerjan> elliott: i was thinking of doing one of the 3-cell bf constants
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08:35:14 <oerjan> food ->
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08:40:15 <Taneb> Hello!
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08:42:12 <Taneb> I think Fueue is Turing-complete
08:44:57 <elliott> hello
08:47:17 <Taneb> As it has the capability for loops and decision-making, and has unbounded memory.
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08:57:56 <monqy> hi
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09:00:08 <elliott> hi
09:04:28 <fizzie> elliott: I have been kinda-sorta asleep.
09:06:23 <elliott> fizzie: Yes, and you were TOO LATE.
09:06:39 <elliott> fizzie: I ended up dumping the stream on the Linode with mplayer, and playing the stream itself with VLC.
09:06:51 <elliott> ALL BECAUSE OF YOU.
09:07:46 <fizzie> OH NO.
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09:10:10 <Sgeo> elliott, ...Ng and Ta aren't here, monqy UPDAte
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09:18:40 <elliott> http://supervillainornewt.com/
09:18:43 <elliott> this... is impossible
09:19:02 <elliott> my score is 0%
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09:25:59 <hagb4rd> > [x | a <- [2,3,5,7,11,13,17], b <- [1,3,4,6,7], x <- [a^b] ]
09:26:00 <lambdabot> [2,8,16,64,128,3,27,81,729,2187,5,125,625,15625,78125,7,343,2401,117649,823...
09:26:34 <hagb4rd> how do i make x the intersecting set of a and b?
09:27:52 <elliott> it's... not really clear what you want
09:28:01 <oerjan> elliott: last insane bug: writing "3-cell brainfuck" in a comment on top of the file
09:28:07 <elliott> oerjan: :D
09:28:13 <elliott> > intersect [2,3,5] [1,3,5]
09:28:14 <lambdabot> [3,5]
09:28:19 <hagb4rd> yea...thx
09:28:25 <hagb4rd> thats it
09:28:33 <elliott> hagb4rd: note that [x | ..., x <- [y]] === [y | ...]
09:28:46 <elliott> so in your expression you can skip the binding of "x" entirely
09:28:57 <elliott> (or alternatively replace the binding with "let x = a^b")
09:29:17 <hagb4rd> hmhm..k got it
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09:46:44 <oerjan> ^chr 75
09:46:44 <fungot> K
09:48:11 <oerjan> yay
09:52:14 <elliott> yay
09:52:17 <elliott> is it working?
09:52:19 <oerjan> yes
09:52:31 <oerjan> http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/qdeql/75
09:52:53 <oerjan> so all the parts have been tested
09:52:56 <elliott> pretty
09:53:04 <elliott> i take it it's not yet automated?
09:53:11 <oerjan> right
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09:54:03 <elliott> [[
09:54:03 <elliott> * After the 1.19wmf1 deployment several people have complained about various aspects of the new diff styling
09:54:04 <elliott> -- The contrast being too low in the highlighted part (darker background behind bolded text)
09:54:04 <elliott> -- The colors not being obvious perhaps (orange/blue)
09:54:04 <elliott> -- Color blind users not seeing the difference very well between the light tones of the orange and blue
09:54:05 <elliott> -- Trevor mentioned something about W3C Accessibility guidelines
09:54:07 <elliott> To play it safe for now I think we should revert these changes to the status quo, and take the next few days (or weeks) to carefully check the concerns, perhaps look at other diff tools out there for inspiration (GitHub, Gerrit, LocalWiki, ..).
09:54:11 <elliott> ]]
09:54:13 <elliott> WHY MUST YOU RUIN MY SHINY
09:54:41 <elliott> "A new patch is coming which will provide the same functionality as these changes did, but without breaking accessibility." yay
09:55:20 <elliott> oerjan: heh the new MW diffs are going to look like http://bug-attachment.wikimedia.org/attachment.cgi?id=10148
09:56:21 <elliott> hi Phantom_Hoover
09:56:31 <Phantom_Hoover> helo
09:56:31 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
09:56:42 <oerjan> dolor sit amet
09:58:14 <elliott> oerjan: oh i lie, the borders will only be on the side
09:58:22 <elliott> hope this is a sufficiently disconcerting change
09:58:35 <oerjan> OKKEJ
09:58:40 <coppro> elliott: is there a loggrep in one of these bots?
09:58:56 <coppro> I'm looking for that link you posted a while back to the BBC radiophonic workshop sound sampley thingy
09:59:07 <oerjan> `pastlog radiophonic
09:59:09 <elliott> coppro: `log
09:59:15 <elliott> though pastlog is more useful (ignores today)
09:59:28 * elliott isn't sure which link you're referring to
09:59:40 <coppro> elliott: it was a flash application on the bbc site I think
09:59:44 <HackEgo> No output.
09:59:50 <coppro> `pastlog bbc
10:00:00 <coppro> oh wait what have i done
10:00:03 <coppro> `pastlog bbc.co.uk
10:00:05 <HackEgo> 2008-11-05.txt:02:46:55: <Slereah> The BBC is a pretty cool guy
10:00:13 <HackEgo> 2010-08-21.txt:17:05:32: <alise> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316
10:00:14 <elliott> `pastelogs http://bbc\.co\.uk\b
10:00:22 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15060
10:00:32 <elliott> (takes a few seconds to populate)
10:00:43 <coppro> hrm
10:00:52 <elliott> oh hmm
10:00:59 <elliott> `pastelogs http://bbc\.co\.uk
10:01:07 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.6261
10:01:11 <elliott> oh wait
10:01:12 <elliott> www.
10:01:15 <elliott> `pastelogs http://(www\.)?bbc\.co\.uk
10:01:23 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18773
10:01:33 <elliott> coppro: there
10:01:50 <elliott> I see news-ham is adequately represented
10:01:58 <coppro> got it
10:02:06 <coppro> radiophon-a-tron
10:02:51 <elliott> i like how it was ph and not me
10:04:13 <coppro> yeah I thought it was you
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10:19:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, the radiophon-a-tron.
10:21:18 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, I want news-ham back :(
10:22:16 <elliott> it ded
10:22:43 <Phantom_Hoover> rip news-ham, 2011-2011.1
10:23:43 <oerjan> in the news: elliott still ham-fisted
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10:41:15 <Taneb> Hello
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10:47:18 <fizzie> Oh, I had somehow gotten the notion that pastlog's randomization was weighted to bias older entries, but apparently it indeed is just "ignore last day".
10:48:50 <elliott> We don't do fancy things like that here
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10:49:51 <fizzie> "You have completed 5/10 questions. Your score is 100%." I doubt I can keep this up, though.
10:51:15 <fizzie> 8/10 correct in the end.
10:54:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, 8/10 on what?
10:54:46 <fizzie> elliott's supervillainornewt.com link.
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10:57:07 <olsner> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvW2xeSn4As
10:57:09 <olsner> Fearsome Flying Jacob - Regular Ordinary Swedish Meal Time
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10:57:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, wow...
11:00:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: How do you do on that thing?
11:00:27 <elliott> *well do
11:00:51 <Phantom_Hoover> What thing.
11:01:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, supervillainornewt.com?
11:02:43 <Phantom_Hoover> I
11:02:47 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought it would be so easy
11:05:01 <Vorpal> well I got 5/10 at least. I'm very surprised some of those ideas weren't from super villains. Or maybe they were: Arguably that man is nuts...
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12:09:00 <elliott> "word" -words
13:34:20 <oklodol> word.
13:38:23 <fizzie> `words
13:38:31 <HackEgo> ens
13:38:35 <fizzie> Ens.
13:38:46 <oklodol> ens.
13:40:43 <elliott> ens
13:41:12 <oklodol> ens to that, bro
13:43:43 <elliott> you ruined it
13:44:32 <oklodol> i retract my ens because apparently you are a fuckface.
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14:23:23 <Taneb> Hello!
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14:31:19 -!- elliott has set topic: Four loko biodiesel eu raw denim butcher hoodie. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/wiki/ has moved servers!.
14:31:37 -!- elliott has set topic: Four loko biodiesel eu raw denim butcher hoodie. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
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16:01:09 <ais523> so, to recall a conversation from ages ago, I figured out how to make highlight work together with less and lesspipe
16:01:38 <ais523> just write 'highlight -A "$1" 2>/dev/null' in ~/.lessfilter, and chmod it executable
16:03:19 <ais523> lesspipe calls ~/.lessfilter, and if it errors out, lesspipe handles the error itself (by falling back to what it would have done anyway), so you don't have to handle lesspipe failing
17:32:22 <oklodol> so i have to program this fuckload of crap today and i'm like hey the day is young
17:32:31 <oklodol> then i realized i have to get on the bus at 0300
17:32:53 <oklodol> so i have 8 hours to program everything in the universe and get ready (that is, grab my laptop)
17:34:10 <oklodol> also my passport will expire in like a month, do you know if they care about that at the airport, i just heard they do in some third-world countries
17:34:48 <oklodol> i'm coming through london which i guess is pretty much a bonsai somalia
17:35:04 <oklodol> (yes, #esoteric is my google)
17:36:18 <fizzie> ISTR that mostly for the EU region it's enough that it doesn't expire during the trip, but I could well be worng.
17:37:24 <elliott> More like: doesn't expire during: the TRIP.
17:37:38 <elliott> I expired during the trip, once.
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17:47:43 <Phantom_Hoover> hello
17:54:52 <elliott> hi
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18:43:09 <Taneb> Hello!
18:44:21 <elliott> hel
18:44:22 <elliott> o
18:45:08 <mroman> hllo
18:48:01 <elliott> heo
18:48:15 <Vorpal> If I have a complex polygonal model (say, a room in a 3D game), is there any algorithm to figure out if there are any holes in said room. I presume you could do it by defining a point that you know is outside and one that you know is inside and checking if you can connect them or not, but is there any efficient algorithms for that?
18:57:53 <Vorpal> Checking that every edge connects to another edge wouldn't work: You can have a surface that is inside the room but not connected on one corner. (For example, the leaves of a plant inside the room would have this property)
18:59:17 <Taneb> And the algorithm you suggested won't work if there's a closed box in the room
18:59:40 <Vorpal> Taneb, the one with outside and inside point?
18:59:41 <Vorpal> hm
18:59:51 <Taneb> Yeah
19:00:11 <Vorpal> uh, why not?
19:00:13 <Friendship> Um, you'd have to have one amazingly broken pathfinding algo for that to be true ...
19:00:30 <Taneb> If the inside point is inside the box, there'll be no path at all, even if there is a hole in the room
19:00:44 <Friendship> The box is the room of that inner point.
19:00:49 <Vorpal> Taneb, the inside and outside points would have to be manually placed to be sane though
19:01:00 <Taneb> By what algorithm?
19:01:15 <Taneb> I'd assume you want this to be as automated as possible
19:01:21 <Friendship> The inner point, if this is in a game, would presumably be where the character is.
19:01:25 <Friendship> The outer point may be more difficult.
19:01:26 <Vorpal> I'm not aiming to solve the problem of detecting which one is outside and which one is inside. Just if given an inside an an outside, is there a path between them or not
19:02:45 <Vorpal> Friendship, I believe for my purpose I could just do something like "inside is defined as the room spawn marker and outside we set to something like 9999,9999,9999"
19:03:03 <elliott> Friendship: I hate you so much.
19:03:04 <Vorpal> that point is unlikely to be inside, and if it was it would just be a false positive
19:03:28 <Taneb> Or a potentially false negative, if it's in a box
19:03:35 <Taneb> I like boxes
19:03:47 <Friendship> elliott: ???
19:03:53 <Taneb> I suspect Vorpal may not
19:03:59 <zzo38> Why do you want to know if there are holes in the room?
19:04:28 <Vorpal> Taneb, right.
19:05:06 <elliott> Friendship: JavaScript.
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19:05:10 <Taneb> Okay, let's assume for convinience, well chosen points
19:05:11 <Vorpal> zzo38, to be able to automatically find areas that need fixing.
19:05:42 <elliott> Friendship: I'm spending my time writing JavaScript. I'm spending my time *optimising* JavaScript.
19:05:47 <elliott> This is not the life I was meant to lead and it's all your fault.
19:06:27 <Taneb> elliott: create a Haskell to JavaScript compiler.
19:06:42 <zzo38> I think such a thing Haskell->JavaScript exists.
19:06:43 <Friendship> elliott: 8-D
19:06:51 <Vorpal> hm, wasn't there some early FPS that did this before writing out levels created in the editor? Quake or some such... Might be worth looking at that.
19:06:54 <elliott> Taneb: That would not make it go fast.
19:07:12 <Taneb> elliott: be amazing at writing Haskell to JavaScript compilers
19:07:30 <elliott> Friendship: The best part about JavaScript and O(n) algorithms is, n has to be under 500 or so, or you're fucked.
19:07:31 <zzo38> But depending on what you are doing, you might not need JavaScripts at all and can use native codes
19:07:38 <mroman> ghcjs exists.
19:07:49 <Friendship> elliott: Naw, you just roll your own CPS ^^
19:07:51 <elliott> Friendship: So, you know... it's completely obliterated and obsoleted the field of complexity analysis.
19:08:02 <elliott> Who cares any more? It just has to be under O(500).
19:08:13 <elliott> Friendship: CPS? I'm not running out of stack, it's just slow as shit.
19:08:23 <Friendship> elliott: You use CPS so that you can yield to the browser.
19:08:27 <elliott> Ah.
19:08:35 <Vorpal> ah yes, so it did. Hm
19:08:39 <elliott> Friendship: But the problem is that my tight loop isn't going fast enough to display smoothly.
19:08:49 <elliott> That will just give the browser more time to not display the next frame.
19:08:53 <Vorpal> the source was released for quake right?
19:09:40 <zzo38> If it is going to be slow like that, don't put it on a webpage. Write a C or Haskell code which can be downloaded and compiled and operated locally.
19:09:41 <Taneb> I believe so, Vorpal
19:10:09 <Friendship> elliott: Ahhh. Then you're fucked.
19:10:18 <zzo38> I expect a native code to run faster.
19:10:29 <Vorpal> Taneb, this problem is quite similar, not exactly the same, and I'm not sure if it depends on how the level is built up or not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_engine#Reducing_3D_complexity_to_increase_speed
19:10:39 <elliott> Friendship: V8 *should* be ripping this to shreds, I think the problem is that I'm doing canvas operations inside my loop.
19:10:48 <Taneb> Vorpal, any non-wikipedia links?
19:10:54 <elliott> Friendship: Maybe I'll have a tight loop doing all the maths and another loop doing the canvas shit, so that the first one can be optimised out.
19:10:55 <Taneb> Lenten challenge
19:11:15 <Vorpal> Taneb, specifically it seems it used convex 3D models to make up the environment, mine might not be convex.
19:11:18 <Vorpal> Taneb, uh?
19:11:22 <Vorpal> why?
19:11:33 <Taneb> I was challenged by a friend.
19:11:42 <Vorpal> to do what?
19:11:53 <Taneb> To not go on Wikipedia until Easter
19:12:10 <Vorpal> And I don't know any. Someone should add "[citation needed]" there
19:12:18 <Vorpal> since it doesn't cite anything on that paragraph
19:12:25 <elliott> Taneb: What do you think of this new esolang? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Abacompute
19:12:44 <Slereah> I read that as ABBA compute
19:12:50 <Taneb> I think it's a veil to make me lose my challenge
19:12:58 <Slereah> You are the dancing queen!
19:13:04 <Slereah> Young and sweet, only 17!
19:13:06 <elliott> Taneb: It's on the wiki, man.
19:13:10 <elliott> On the wiki.
19:13:17 <Taneb> Especially as searching the wiki for that name yields no results
19:13:21 <elliott> Cache.
19:13:38 <Taneb> Not cache/
19:14:23 <Vorpal> elliott, no?
19:14:34 <Vorpal> elliott, besides he said wikipedia not any wiki in general
19:15:13 <Taneb> Huh
19:15:18 <Taneb> It's an empty page
19:15:29 <elliott> Oh, fuck, not that problem again
19:15:38 <elliott> Fixed
19:15:40 <Vorpal> elliott, for me it says the page doesn't exist
19:15:56 <Vorpal> okay now it redirects, what?
19:15:59 <Vorpal> to wikipedia
19:16:08 <elliott> Pfft, you're imagining things.
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19:16:18 <Vorpal> I wasn't aware #REDIRECT or whatever it is called worked to another wiki
19:16:28 <Vorpal> bbl food
19:16:38 <Taneb> ditto
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19:18:22 <elliott> I wonder if you fail lent if you, e.g. decided to give up chocolate but someone decides to force-feed you chocolate.
19:18:26 <elliott> I guess: no.
19:18:35 <elliott> Thus foiling my devious plan :'(
19:22:51 <elliott> Friendship: Aha, splitting the two loops worked perfectly.
19:22:59 <elliott> Well, to a degree, anyway.
19:24:09 <Phantom_Hoover> <Vorpal> I wasn't aware #REDIRECT or whatever it is called worked to another wiki
19:24:22 <Friendship> "Perfectly to a degree"
19:24:30 <Phantom_Hoover> He set the server up to redirect, obviously.
19:27:12 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, right
19:27:33 <elliott> It has been 0 days since etc.
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19:34:41 <elliott> Friendship: "This is one thing that I really like about JavaScript: You can write a three line function for a trivial operation and still need 800 words to explain its true nature."
19:34:52 <elliott> Friendship: So, I'm beginning to suspect that John Resig is just really high, all the time.
19:35:38 <Friendship> ^^
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19:40:13 <elliott> Friendship: So, why is the canvas API so terrible?
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19:44:08 <Friendship> Apple.
19:44:26 <elliott> Friendship: Like everyone else didn't bolt on crap too.
19:46:13 <Friendship> Only Apple nailed the apple-flavored jelly to the JS/DOM tree.
19:46:23 <elliott> Is it even possible to get the rendered contents of a canvas as a bitmap object and blit it into another one?
19:46:26 <elliott> I want to cache this shit.
19:46:38 <Friendship> Yes, it is.
19:48:06 <elliott> Okay. Is there a better way to find out how than blindly gawking at Mozilla's impossible wiki docs?
19:52:08 <elliott> I see.
19:59:10 <zzo38> Oops! How are you supposed to play Hero Hearts if the hearts are upsidedown?
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20:27:35 <myndzi> elliott: i seem to recall it wasn't too bad, but i never implemented it haha
20:31:11 <elliott> myndzi: wat
20:34:21 <Vorpal> <elliott> Friendship: "This is one thing that I really like about JavaScript: You can write a three line function for a trivial operation and still need 800 words to explain its true nature." <-- that is trivial in any language that doesn't require line breaks for parsing...
20:37:26 <elliott> <Vorpal> Hurr what is line
20:39:49 <Vorpal> :P
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20:46:52 <elliott> hi monqy
20:47:57 <zzo38> Is there such a thing as "failing Lent"?
20:49:16 <monqy> hi
20:49:28 <Vorpal> zzo38, what is Lent?
20:49:58 <zzo38> Vorpal: The period of time between Ash Wednesday and Easter Sunday.
20:50:01 <Vorpal> (apart from past tense of "lend" with a capital letter at the beginning of the word)
20:50:22 <shachaf> Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up.
20:50:33 <Vorpal> Ash Wednesday?
20:50:35 <elliott> `addquote <shachaf> Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up.
20:50:41 <HackEgo> 816) <shachaf> Lent is a bad habit that people find very difficult to give up.
20:52:11 <Vorpal> Oh, "Lent" is the same as "fasta" in Swedish.
20:52:23 <monqy> is that anything like pasta
20:52:28 <elliott> apparently this is a thing people actually do in PHP: extract(array_map("mysql_real_escape_string", get_defined_vars()));
20:52:30 <Vorpal> monqy, no it is like fasting.
20:52:38 <shachaf> Don't be silly. Pasta isn't Swedish.
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20:52:49 <elliott> 10 points to the first person to explain what it does
20:53:06 <Vorpal> elliott, is that +10 or -10?
20:53:07 <monqy> it does php
20:53:29 <shachaf> elliott: What it does or what it's meant to do?
20:53:39 <Vorpal> elliott, if you tell me what "get_defined_vars()" does I can tell you what the whole does
20:53:43 <monqy> it is also meant to do php
20:53:53 <Vorpal> I just hope it isn't as stupid as it seems, knowing php devs it probably is
20:54:12 <Sgeo> Something to do with putting slashes in all variable contents?
20:54:28 <elliott> Vorpal: It gets the defined vars.
20:54:34 <Vorpal> hm
20:54:46 <elliott> Hint: extract is the inverse.
20:54:53 <Vorpal> ouch
20:54:54 <Vorpal> right
20:55:08 <Vorpal> elliott, so it changes every variable in the program to be mysql-escaped?
20:55:13 <elliott> In the local scope, I think.
20:55:21 <Vorpal> still pretty horrible
20:55:25 <elliott> slightly_less_magic_quotes
20:55:44 <Vorpal> I don't understand why anyone would not simply send the data as bound parameters.
20:55:58 <Sgeo> Vorpal, because PHP doesn't come with that?
20:56:09 <Vorpal> you know, "select * from foo where name = ?" or whatever and then bind that
20:56:15 <Sgeo> Actually, the PHP installation we used in class did, so
20:56:23 <Sgeo> (Although the teacher certainly never showed us)
20:56:32 <elliott> Vorpal: PHP couldn't do that back ages ago.
20:56:38 <Vorpal> Sgeo, pretty sure there is some database API of php that does that
20:56:39 <Vorpal> elliott, ah
20:56:44 <zzo38> Does MySQL and/or PHP support these kind of SQL parameters binding?
20:57:48 <Vorpal> I seem to remember using php and psql bindings, I just currently can't think of a reason I would /have/ that memory. Sure I have been forced to use php a few times (mostly when trying to fix something in a bug tracker or wiki software) but usually you had to use mysql as well then
20:58:00 <Vorpal> so why do I remember using psql and php? Weird.
20:59:16 <elliott> I've been doing some PHP lately. It's... uh...
20:59:31 <Vorpal> it is a bit like perl, but far worse.
21:00:09 <Vorpal> (And as you probably know by now, I'm not exactly a fan of perl.)
21:00:21 <Vorpal> though actually, it is bad for different reasons than perl
21:01:08 <zzo38> I think in a few ways, PHP is like Perl but worse.
21:01:35 <elliott> Nah, Perl is a really great, rich language, in the relative scale. PHP is a 64 kbps MP3 rip of Perl from 2001.
21:01:47 <Vorpal> heh
21:02:13 <Vorpal> I can't argue with "rich language" certainly
21:03:11 <elliott> PHP is like if Perl was a complex three-dimensional object and somebody took a photograph of it, so all the depth perception was ruined, then they asked an almost-blind person to recreate the original object with their feet based on that photograph.
21:03:15 <zzo38> I have written my own SQL templating program; currently it only works with SQLite but you can modify it to work with other SQL system if you want to. I have written a separate program to make it work with CGI, since the SQL templating program itself cannot use CGI. Both programs are written in C.
21:03:21 <elliott> Out of mud.
21:03:34 <zzo38> elliott: O, yes, OK.
21:03:55 <ion> elliott: Well said. :-D
21:04:33 <Vorpal> elliott, agreed
21:04:42 <elliott> Then they stole the OOP sculpture from the Java building and just plonked it on top.
21:04:50 <monqy> perl has $s in front of stuff and php does too. they're basically the same language.
21:04:59 <elliott> With superglue.
21:05:08 <Vorpal> I don't think I ever used the OOP features thankfully
21:05:19 <zzo38> monqy: In that case you understand neither Perl nor PHP......
21:05:39 <Vorpal> monqy, I always found the $ in front of a lot of stuff to be rather ugly
21:06:15 <zzo38> Vorpal: I have used the object oriented features in PHP as a substitute for partially applied functions
21:06:26 <Vorpal> now I'm scared
21:06:38 <ion> > let a = 42 in show $a
21:06:39 <lambdabot> "42"
21:06:53 <elliott> > let ($a) = 42 in show ($a)
21:06:54 <lambdabot> <no location info>: Parse error in pattern
21:07:06 <elliott> > let _$a = 42 in show ($a)
21:07:06 <Vorpal> ion, nice
21:07:07 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (t -> t1)
21:07:07 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ...
21:07:21 <elliott> Oh, duh.
21:07:30 <elliott> > let _$a = 42 in show $a
21:07:31 <lambdabot> 42
21:07:33 <elliott> CLOSE ENOUGH.
21:07:47 <elliott> > let f$a = f 42 in show $a
21:07:47 <lambdabot> "42"
21:09:30 <zzo38> Do you believe me?
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21:34:39 <Sgeo> Note: I mentioned this place in another channel. Be ware.
21:34:49 <monqy> oh no
21:35:12 <elliott> why
21:35:13 <elliott> do you keep
21:35:14 <elliott> doing
21:35:15 <elliott> that
21:36:10 <Sgeo> Someone was talking about how they thought Freenode was "enabling" Christians by allowing channels like #jesus to stay with one #
21:36:34 -!- jix has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
21:36:39 <Sgeo> "Sgeo: how refreshing to see you talk about something other than whatever the heck homestuck is"
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21:36:56 -!- Friendship has set topic: The international hub for exoteric voodoo programming and astral software projection. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
21:37:01 -!- Friendship has set topic: The international hub for exoteric voodoo programming and astral software projection. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
21:37:04 -!- Friendship has set topic: The international hub for exoteric voodoo programming and astral software projection. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers!.
21:37:17 <Friendship> ...
21:37:27 <elliott> What the fuck are you doing
21:37:34 <Friendship> I tried to change the topic once.
21:37:39 <elliott> `addquote <Sgeo> "Sgeo: how refreshing to see you talk about something other than whatever the heck homestuck is"
21:37:43 <HackEgo> 817) <Sgeo> "Sgeo: how refreshing to see you talk about something other than whatever the heck homestuck is"
21:37:44 <Friendship> Apparently my client went "Once? I think you mean thrice."
21:37:54 -!- elliott has set topic: Go away | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers! Fuck you!.
21:37:58 <elliott> i think this will suffice
21:38:04 <ion> ♪ THRICE
21:38:22 <ais523> perhaps I should put the gosc stuff in the topic
21:38:38 -!- Friendship has set topic: Gosc away | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | http://esolangs.org/ has moved servers! Fuck you!.
21:38:55 <ais523> elliott: btw, they're counting views of the license page as downloads of the software, because they don't host it themselves and are using google analytics in an attempt to count downloads indirectly
21:39:22 <elliott> ais523: well, I viewed the license page at least twice for my one download (which was not under the license)
21:39:45 <ais523> hmm, you'll probably cancel out me
21:39:49 <Sgeo> What page?
21:39:54 <ais523> admittedly, I've never downloaded the software from there because I haven't needed to
21:40:02 <Sgeo> What software?
21:40:06 <ais523> Sgeo: https://sites.google.com/site/thegeometryofsynthesis/
21:40:11 <ais523> admire the beatifully well-designed website
21:41:20 <elliott> I wish I paid taxes so I could be indignant about my taxes funding a work licensed in a way that severely restricts my use of it.
21:41:53 <Sgeo> What... is it, exactly?
21:41:59 <Sgeo> Some sort of language?
21:42:04 <ais523> Sgeo: it's a compiler from Verity to VHDL
21:42:26 <Sgeo> Ah. I know vaguely what VHDL is, but not Verity
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21:42:47 <ais523> right, because we invented Verity for the purpose
21:42:57 <ais523> it's a call-by-name higher-order statically-typed language
21:43:07 <ais523> which is really an Algol variant, but in disguise
21:43:30 <elliott> (With lambdas.)
21:43:45 <elliott> Sgeo: Search for "gosc.tgz" to download it without agreeing to the license.
21:43:47 <ais523> right, with lambdas
21:43:51 <elliott> Then you can look at the example programs.
21:44:02 <ais523> elliott: but the example programs are very permissively licensed
21:44:39 <elliott> ais523: Did the University grant you permission to license them in that way? If so, why not the rest of the package?
21:44:42 <elliott> Anyway, it's the principle of the thing.
21:44:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:45:05 <elliott> [[In the event of a dispute arising from or relating to this Agreement the Parties will attempt to settle it by mediation in accordance with the Centre for Effective Dispute Resolution (“CEDR”) Model Mediation Procedure. Unless otherwise agreed between the Parties, the mediator will be nominated by CEDR. To initiate the mediation a Party must give notice in writing (“ADR notice”) to the other Party to the dispute requesting mediation.
21:45:05 <elliott> A copy of the request should be sent to CEDR. The mediation will not start later than 30 days after the date of the ADR notice.]]
21:45:20 <elliott> ais523: How much will it personally inconvenience you if I try and annoy them with this?
21:45:32 <ais523> elliott: it's licensed so as to retain the ability to commercialise
21:45:44 -!- MoALTz has joined.
21:47:23 <Phantom_Hoover> What's this about taxes.
21:48:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Someone gotta pay them so I can use them as a platform for indignancy wrt ais523's compiler's licensing.
21:48:51 <Phantom_Hoover> What's ais523's compiler's licensing?
21:48:59 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: it's a crazy EULA
21:49:11 <ais523> I told the lawyers about the obvious contradictions and I fixed them
21:49:18 <ais523> *they fixed them
21:49:20 <ais523> but not the typos
21:49:24 <ais523> it's a licence agreement
21:49:27 <Phantom_Hoover> How crazy...
21:49:33 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It doesn't just restrict your ability to redistribute derivatives.
21:49:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It restricts your ability to *make* them.
21:49:45 <elliott> Like, privately.
21:50:05 <elliott> They have to be for "academic teaching" or "non-commercial research" purposes.
21:50:13 <elliott> ais523: (ii) You many make derivative works for the purposes of non-commercial research.
21:50:19 <elliott> "many"
21:50:32 <elliott> oh, I guess you noticed that
21:50:35 <Phantom_Hoover> I...
21:50:47 <ais523> I still think "LICENCE.rtf" is the best one
21:50:58 <elliott> hmm, I bet the easiest way to get this under a reasonable license would be to sabotage all attempts at commercialisation
21:50:59 <ais523> I asked if I should rename the file, but meh
21:50:59 <Sgeo> LICENCE.wtf
21:51:03 <elliott> who wants to help me spread FUD about hardware compilers?
21:51:07 <ais523> I /did/ turn the executable bit off, though
21:51:37 <ais523> elliott: what you do is you sell it to Xilinx and Altera for a fortune
21:51:41 <ais523> /then/ you opensource it :)
21:51:55 <ais523> (note: probably wouldn't work in practice)
21:52:04 <elliott> maybe I'll write my own Verity implementation
21:52:07 <elliott> beats javascript
21:52:20 <elliott> but--first--sleep:
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21:52:24 <ais523> feel free; I recommend that you GPLv3 it
21:52:36 <ais523> (v3 is very important in this context, for reasons that I hope are obvious)
21:53:05 <zzo38> Yes I agree, make GPLv3
21:53:53 <zzo38> Is there FPGA which does not support encryption, and that has open specification?
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22:12:00 <lambdabot> pong
22:15:33 <Friendship> @ching
22:15:33 <lambdabot> pong
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23:29:30 <Sgeo_> monqy UPDATE
23:29:47 <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
23:30:11 <oerjan> `addquote <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
23:30:14 <HackEgo> 818) <ais523> bleh, why doesn't tab-complete work in mkdir for the name of the new directory
23:30:28 <ais523> it was a rhetorical question :)
23:30:55 <oerjan> SO YOU SAY
23:33:34 <olsner> I ask the same question every time I mkdir
23:34:20 <Friendship> I ... don't.
23:34:48 <oerjan> imagine a world in which it _did_ work.
23:38:56 <olsner> since that system could just figure out the whole command for you, all you need to do is press tab and enter, tab enter, tab enter until you're done
23:41:58 <oerjan> <zzo38> Oops! How are you supposed to play Hero Hearts if the hearts are upsidedown? <-- play villain hearts duh
23:43:02 <olsner> if the hearts are upside down, it's hero butts?
23:43:45 <Jafet> Hero Nuts
23:44:36 <oerjan> well the villains tend to be the butt of the joke
23:50:03 <oerjan> new mezzacotta blog posts! it's only been 1 1/2 years!
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