←2012-03-24 2012-03-25 2012-03-26→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:03:19 <olsner> yay, managed to compile the metacircular evaluator in my compiler... it gets far enough to crash becasuse read is not defined, after printing ";;; M-Eval input:"
00:03:43 <olsner> the metacircular evaluator *from SICP
00:07:10 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:13:19 <oerjan> i take it my BCT chores are indefinitely postponed.
00:21:37 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:25:37 -!- derdon_ has joined.
00:28:38 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
00:39:03 -!- augur has joined.
00:47:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:08:09 -!- Sofox has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
01:34:20 <zzo38> Is there anything like Tor for telephones?
02:03:04 -!- derdon_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:04:33 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
02:29:59 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
02:36:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:40:39 <zzo38> Are there any Haskell libraries for typesetting other than my own one?
02:42:22 <oerjan> eek, i've missed an hour!
02:42:36 <Mathnerd314> zzo38: what's yours?
02:44:41 <Mathnerd314> but a random search shows http://hackage.haskell.org/package/HPDF
02:47:56 <zzo38> Mathnerd314: Mine is dvi-processing, which is not yet posted to Hackage
02:47:59 -!- Nihilist_ has joined.
02:48:24 <zzo38> It can both read and write DVI files, and it can read TFM files.
02:48:25 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
02:49:53 <Mathnerd314> #haskell would probably be more helpful
02:50:35 <zzo38> HPDF doesn't even have Applicative instances for anything
02:59:51 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
03:02:37 -!- augur has joined.
03:07:51 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
03:08:26 -!- NSQX has joined.
03:14:02 <NSQX> One saying to quote: "A recently-created programming language whose author intends to never make better than programming languages created earlier in either usability, power, things that can be done with it, or simplicity, is probably an esoteric programming language."
03:18:59 <NSQX> elliot: What if MediaWiki could be rewritten in Objective LOLCODE with CGI support?
03:20:04 <oerjan> it's spelled elliott, also there's not a snowball's chance in hell of anyone doing that.
03:22:11 <NSQX> I will always think of MediaWiki rewritten in Objective LOLCODE (run with an interpreter that has CGI extensions) and Nonsense Query List databases.
03:22:23 <Jafet> It's already written in PHP.
03:23:47 <NSQX> I don't mean that, but I will always think of when Ehird translates MediaWiki from PHP and MySQL to Objective LOLCODE and Nonsense Query Lists,
03:24:05 <NSQX> and then use that version of MediaWiki on the Esolang website.
03:24:17 <NSQX> Jafet?
03:25:07 <Jafet> It's already written in PHP.
03:26:26 <NSQX> Bye. Anyway, always remember this saying: "A recently-created programming language whose author intends to never make better than programming languages created earlier in either usability, power, things that can be done with it, or simplicity, is probably an esoteric programming language."
03:26:34 -!- NSQX has quit.
03:27:36 <Sgeo_> "things that can be done with it"?
03:28:05 <Sgeo_> I assume there's an easily in there, otherwise it's a nonsensical thing to attempt to compare.
03:28:30 <Sgeo_> Well, hmm, not quite... I guess
03:28:41 <Sgeo_> I mean, can't really manipulate hardware with pure PHP, can you?
03:29:03 <Sgeo_> Erm, manipulate hardware arbitrarily. Obviously stuff like memory and network cards is affected.
03:30:54 -!- Nihilist_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
03:35:06 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:36:03 <Madoka-Kaname> That definition makes many programming languages not esoteric, when, by all rights, they should be.
03:36:08 -!- NSQX has joined.
03:36:16 <Madoka-Kaname> Some esoteric languages take their esotericness from being way simpler than any proper language would be.
03:36:19 <Madoka-Kaname> <Madoka-Kaname> That definition makes many programming languages not esoteric, when, by all rights, they should be.
03:36:30 <NSQX> "I mean, can't really manipulate hardware with pure PHP, can you?" - well,
03:36:58 <NSQX> at least PHP has most features that C/C++ has,
03:37:35 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).
03:38:06 <NSQX> and, unlike in C/C++, PHP doesn't have to be told something like "int i = 0;", it only has to be told something like "$i = 0",
03:38:41 <NSQX> and PHP does not require an int main() function, and the author intends to give PHP a lot of features,
03:38:46 <NSQX> so PHP is not esoteric.
03:39:55 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
03:40:17 <Sgeo_> NSQX, if it helps, I was criticising myself criticising a part of your definition
03:40:27 <NSQX> Objective LOLCODE may be almost esoteric because it's paradigms are either as good as, or not as good as, (never better than) PHP which was created earlier.
03:41:16 <zzo38> PHP has "create_function" but that works very stupid, it wastes memory and does not make proper lambda-style function. You can make a closer to lambda-style function by using classes instead, since a callback in PHP is allowed to be an object together with a name of one of its methods.
03:42:15 <zzo38> It is also said PHP has no pointers, it has variable references which work differently. But there is a way to make a reference into a value to use in a bit similar way to pointers (but no pointer arithmetic): $x=array(&$y); make the value of $x to reference $y and now $x[0] dereference it both for read and write.
03:50:01 -!- NSQX has quit.
04:01:53 -!- Jafet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
04:02:03 -!- Jafet has joined.
05:10:05 -!- yorick has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
05:11:01 -!- yorick has joined.
05:26:48 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
05:58:02 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
06:06:04 -!- asiekierka has joined.
06:07:03 -!- MoALTz has joined.
06:15:48 <zzo38> Why does JPL HORIZONS stop working if enter key is pushed?
06:23:39 <itidus21> zzo38: speaking of things not working i'd love to know why david eppstein's page on wikipedia crashes firefox on me
06:24:35 <zzo38> itidus21: I don't know
06:25:54 <itidus21> but I am digressing from JPL HORIZONS
06:33:54 <zzo38> The webpage for JPL HORIZONS works but some functions are missing. JPL HORIZONS doesn't work though (unless I am doing something wrong?).
06:37:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
06:40:54 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
06:48:43 <zzo38> But as far as I know they don't have rotation of planets and other objects in there, they only have positions.
06:49:55 <zzo38> If someone asked you to use astrology to determine whether or not they should sleep, how would you answer?
07:10:48 <itidus21> zzo38: uh..(i wouldn't really say this) the appropriateness of sleep is a function of the rotation of the earth around it's axis
07:11:13 <itidus21> ^relative to ones location on the earth's surface
07:12:23 <itidus21> added to the time of day the person needs to wake up
07:12:23 <zzo38> itidus21: That is what I did too. I asked for their geographic location and see which house the Sun is at.
07:13:22 -!- Taneb has joined.
07:14:04 <Taneb> Hello!
07:14:12 <Taneb> Did you know that Windows 7 can still BSOD?
07:15:02 <itidus21> zzo38: in other words, 1) is it nighttime where you live? 2) do you sleep at night? ... Taneb: Hi Taneb. i am actually somewhat surprised by that.
07:15:33 <zzo38> Taneb: I would have guessed it would, but have never seen such thing. But I did know that ReactOS already has enough code to make a BSOD
07:15:48 <Taneb> It just happened to me while I was browsing the internet
07:15:59 <shachaf> Should've used Windows 8.
07:16:03 <shachaf> Windows 8 can't BSOD.
07:17:52 -!- MoALTz has joined.
07:18:00 <Taneb> I should realy configure the WiFi on Ubuntu
07:18:33 <Taneb> And install Haiku for not going online
07:19:30 <Taneb> (this is a plan)
07:22:35 <Taneb> I think the last time I BSOD'd, I was on a Vista system infested with trojans
07:22:41 <Taneb> Had the lot of them.
07:22:46 <Taneb> Paris, Hector, Aeneas
07:22:57 <Taneb> Priam
07:23:48 <Taneb> All of them
07:23:51 <Taneb> @ping
07:23:51 <lambdabot> pong
07:23:56 <Taneb> fungot, hello
07:23:57 <fungot> Taneb: fails same here... my brain is as non-functional as the rest of the year
07:24:08 <Taneb> fungot, who's your favourite Trojan?
07:24:09 <fungot> Taneb: true, but apply, being a piece of crap. -g is fine as long as i don't pass *pointers* to local vars defenition, and it transforms into a let block
07:24:16 <Taneb> ^style
07:24:17 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
07:24:28 <Taneb> ^style europarl
07:24:28 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
07:24:39 <Taneb> fungot, what do you think of Paris of Troy?
07:24:42 <fungot> Taneb: question no 13 by mr poignant and all the necessary means for a renewed but deepened commitment to resorting and sustaining the peace accords. the commission agrees with the amendment extending the scope of community powers. respect for the rule of law and in some cases we have authorised, these risks are and proposing the necessary measures to restore the balance, the powers of the commission, conservation measures appl
07:24:59 <Taneb> Right, now to execute my plan!
07:25:01 <Taneb> Hahahaha!
07:25:02 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye).
07:31:25 <itidus21> ^style fungot
07:31:25 <fungot> Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself)
07:31:33 <itidus21> fungot
07:31:34 <fungot> itidus21: i just wrote :p ( what was i thinking of something. at the moment. wheee, shiny.'). the solution is to produce the bonds i.e fnord between the karma and our fnord causeway. the scene uses hare coursing as a metaphor and may be fnord to other military genius, indeed, from country, have the fnord so fnord a series of really coy riddles about it and stop the eval loop, stable or otherwise fail ( just annotate the paste i
07:33:29 -!- Taneb has joined.
07:33:44 <Taneb> Right, now for stage 2
07:34:47 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
07:36:40 <Taneb> So, what do people think of Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download?
07:37:32 <itidus21> ONE MORE THAN ZERO
07:38:01 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
07:50:36 -!- NSQX has joined.
07:51:04 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
07:51:15 <NSQX> esolangs.org/wiki/­
07:51:22 <NSQX> https://esolangs.org/wiki/­
07:51:43 -!- MoALTz has joined.
07:51:44 <NSQX> No, I mean http://esolangs.org/wiki/­
07:52:09 <NSQX> Yes, that is the same thing as http://esolangs.org/wiki/TLWNN
07:52:52 <NSQX> Do you want to know how I changed the page's name to no title?
07:53:31 <zzo38> I know what it is, it is URL-encoded as %C2%AD (so it does actually have a title, you just can't see it)
07:53:48 <Deewiant> It's a soft hyphen
07:55:51 <NSQX> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot http://pastebin.com/YTd5bG5N
07:57:28 <NSQX> The soft hypen was the only character ever discovered (originally at http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/%AD ) which MediaWiki accepts in page titles but most web browsers will treat like that character isn't even in the name.
07:59:07 <NSQX> I would want to know why most web browsers treat the soft hyphen like there is no soft hyphen in the text.
07:59:44 <Deewiant> Because that's the whole point.
07:59:49 <Deewiant> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_hyphen
08:04:34 <NSQX> I've now renamed it from a soft hypen (0xAD) to a zero-width character (0x200B)
08:05:37 <NSQX> Do you think every instance of "The Language With No Name" or TLWNN in the text should be replaced with a zero-width character?
08:06:16 <NSQX> Bye
08:06:17 -!- NSQX has quit.
08:11:03 -!- tzxn3 has joined.
08:28:15 -!- nortti has joined.
08:30:25 -!- kmc has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:38:13 -!- kmc has joined.
08:46:31 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
08:49:54 -!- Vorpal has joined.
08:54:57 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
08:57:21 <Taneb> http://www.amazon.com/Noras-Hair-Salon-Shear-Disaster/dp/B004FK5E8E
08:58:40 -!- MoALTz has joined.
08:59:06 <zzo38> I have played some Dungeons & Dragons game in the past week and I recorded it in the computer
08:59:41 <Taneb> Yay!
09:03:01 <Taneb> I've never actually managed to play D&D
09:04:27 <zzo38> Did you see the recordings?
09:04:40 <Taneb> No
09:05:51 <zzo38> Do you want to see it? They are using TeX
09:06:40 <Taneb> I am not sure how to render TeX files
09:07:19 <zzo38> Simply start the program "tex" and enter the filename at the ** prompt.
09:07:23 <Taneb> Okay
09:07:28 <Taneb> Link?
09:07:57 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/level20.tex You also need this file http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dnd/recording/dungeonsrecording.tex
09:09:20 <Taneb> /usr/bin/mktexfmt: 974: /usr/share/texmf/texconfig/tcfmgr: not found
09:09:21 <Taneb> fmtutil: config file `fmtutil.cnf' not found.
09:09:21 <Taneb> I can't find the format file `tex.fmt'!
09:09:28 <Taneb> ???
09:09:42 <zzo38> Taneb: You have failed to install TeX correctly, if you get that message.
09:09:48 <Taneb> Okay
09:10:39 <zzo38> And then a DVI file is created. You can then view it on screen using xdvi or dviout or yap or whatever, or you can print it out using dvilj4 (for PCL printers) or another program for your printer.
09:10:57 <Taneb> It doesn't seem to want to work...
09:12:14 <zzo38> What operating system (including version) are you using?
09:12:58 <Taneb> Ubuntu 10.04
09:13:15 <zzo38> For systems with Debian-based package management, I think you need to install the "texlive" package. (There is also "texlive-binaries" but that is only the binaries, not the format files.)
09:13:30 <nortti> Taneb: why LTS?
09:13:43 <Taneb> nortti, don't like upgrading
09:13:49 <Taneb> Things always seem to go wrong for me
09:15:34 <nortti> Taneb: you should update to 12.04 when it gets relased
09:15:44 <Taneb> I did know that
09:15:53 <Taneb> I'll try to be very careful doing that
09:17:21 <zzo38> (It says the program "tex" is in the "texlive-binaries" package, which is correct, although the program won't run without the format files, which are in a different package.)
09:22:14 <Taneb> I've got it working!
09:22:15 <Taneb> :)
09:24:10 <zzo38> After entering "level20" (without quotes) at the ** prompt, you should get another prompt which is specific to this document and which asks "Select printing level". Select the level of detail you wish and then you will get a .dvi file. To view it on the screen, use the "xdvi" program; to send it to the printer, use "dvilj" or "dvilj4" if you have a PCL printer, and pipe it to "lp" to send the PCL codes to the printer.
09:26:54 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
09:28:01 <zzo38> Do you have a printer on your computer? If so, is it compatible with PCL?
09:29:32 <Taneb> I'd rather not print it
09:29:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
09:29:48 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
09:29:55 <zzo38> You are not required to print it. I was just asking if you had a printer.
09:30:01 <Taneb> I don't know
09:30:05 <Taneb> Well, I have a printer
09:30:15 <Taneb> But I don't think I can access it from here?
09:31:15 <fizzie> I have a printer, and it speaks some form of PCL.
09:32:06 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
09:33:05 <zzo38> It would be useful to know in case you want to use TeX for anything else. If you have other questions about TeX you can ask me since I know many things about it. Books describing TeX and METAFONT are available in a series called "Computers & Typesetting", in case you are interested (it includes not only documentation but also complete source-codes for TeX, METAFONT, and Computer Modern).
09:34:14 <zzo38> fizzie: I think many laser printers (and some others) support PCL; do you know how common it is and with what different printer models, brands, companies, and type of printer (laser, ink, etc)?
09:37:31 <fizzie> I think some form of PCL is quite common when it comes to "cheap" laser printers. ("Expensive" ones tend to do postscript, and inkjets seem to tend to use their own custom things.) But that's just my hunch, and based on the situation few years back; I haven't done any survey about it or anything.
09:37:45 -!- derdon has joined.
09:38:12 <Taneb> I've got an inkjet
09:38:15 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
09:39:38 <fizzie> Some of them probably do PCL too.
09:39:45 <zzo38> There are printers that support both PCL and PostScript, although I do not know how common they are (although PJL would be needed to configure them and to switch between them).
09:50:59 -!- cheater has joined.
09:51:20 -!- NihilistDandy has quit.
10:12:39 <Taneb> I may work on Salesman for a bit
10:16:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
10:58:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:11:00 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
11:15:43 -!- elliott has joined.
11:15:52 <elliott> fizzie: ping
11:16:33 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: ping
11:16:36 <elliott> pikhq: ping
11:16:41 <elliott> Sheesh, where are you people when I need you.
11:16:48 <Phantom__Hoover> [logn
11:17:30 <Phantom__Hoover> OK Steam is starting to annoy me; two days after I pirate Deus Ex, it offers the entire series for free.
11:17:41 <Phantom__Hoover> Erm, *75% off
11:17:56 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: /msg
11:27:22 <elliott> Maybe I'll ping...
11:27:23 <elliott> RocketJSquirrel: !
11:37:52 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:01:04 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
12:06:17 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving").
12:19:05 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:34:07 -!- cheater has joined.
12:55:38 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
13:02:43 <Phantom__Hoover> Oh for
13:02:58 <Phantom__Hoover> Steam binds the screenshot key to the same one Deus Ex uses for the torch.
13:07:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:15:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .).
13:30:15 -!- augur has joined.
13:33:57 -!- elliott has joined.
13:34:12 <elliott> <Elemir> Guys, what haskell CMS is more useful?
13:34:12 <elliott> * Elemir knows happstack and yesod
13:34:15 <elliott> <elliott> Elemir: web framework =/= cms
13:34:19 <elliott> <Elemir> elliott: aaaand? Happstack or yesod not only web framework
13:34:22 <elliott> <Elemir> This frameworks are CMS too, so good sample
13:34:25 <elliott> <elliott> Elemir: happstack and yesod are not CMSes
13:34:27 <elliott> <Elemir> Why?
13:34:30 <elliott> <Elemir> Really CMS just provide XML interface for programming
13:34:36 <elliott> <Elemir> For example at yesod I can write pages, scriptes and css-shit at pure haskell
13:34:37 <elliott> <Elemir> *at pure template haskell
13:42:17 <elliott> apparently since you can write a blog in few SLOC with Yesod, it's a CMS
13:49:17 <elliott> on why Yesod is marketed as a web framework despite obviously being a CMS: * Elemir thinks that author may have some term phobies, it's a normal
13:55:37 <olsner> I think someone has a normal
14:08:26 <elliott> Deewiant: Unicode expert ping.
14:56:00 <elliott> Man, where is ais523.
14:56:29 <RocketJSquirrel> <elliott> I sure do hate it when people aren't here.
14:56:40 <RocketJSquirrel> * elliott vanishes for several weeks in a hissy fit.
14:58:53 <elliott> /whois ais523
14:58:54 <elliott> * ais523 :No such nick/channel
14:58:54 <elliott> * [ais523] End of WHOIS list.
14:59:00 <elliott> /whois elliott when he wasn't in #esoteric
14:59:05 <elliott> * [elliott] (~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott): Elliott Hird
15:15:50 <RocketJSquirrel> /whois elliott when he wasn't in #esoteric
15:15:52 <RocketJSquirrel> * when :No such nick/channel
15:21:41 <Deewiant> elliott: Pong.
15:23:28 <elliott> Deewiant: You like UNICODE MYSTERIES, right?
15:23:53 <Deewiant> Depends, but go on.
15:24:03 <elliott> Deewiant: What's the difference between the "TLWNN" in these two lines from http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:RecentChanges:
15:24:05 <elliott> (Deletion log); 12:31 . . Ehird (Talk | contribs | block)‎ deleted "TLWNN" (content was: "#REDIRECT ​")
15:24:06 <elliott> (diff | hist) . . m ​TLWNN‎; 11:54 . . (-121) . . Ehird (Talk | contribs | block)‎ (restore incorrect title hatnote)
15:24:16 <elliott> I've wgetted it and looked at it in vi, and they both look identical.
15:24:20 <elliott> But one of them has a redirect, and the other doesn't.
15:24:24 <elliott> I also looked at it in emacs, nothin'.
15:24:53 <Deewiant> http://esolangs.org/wiki/TLWNN
15:24:54 <Deewiant> http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%80%8BTLWNN
15:24:57 <elliott> Also, when the latter one existed (and contained the article) and the first one didn't, searching for "TLWNN" would produce "This doesn't exist lol why not create [[TLWNN]]" and clicking that link would go to the article so ?????
15:25:06 <elliott> Deewiant: Bah; okay
15:25:14 <elliott> Deewiant: Annoying that my browser doesn't distinguish the two in the URL bar at all
15:25:20 <Deewiant> Mine does :-P
15:26:57 <elliott> Deewiant: Welp, my position that using freaky Unicode characters in titles for the sake of a cheap joke is terrible is strengthened some more.
15:38:17 -!- MoALTz has joined.
16:45:47 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:46:46 -!- Taneb has joined.
16:48:00 <elliott> hi Taneb
16:48:16 <Taneb> Hello!
16:49:27 <Taneb> Making a Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download implementation
16:51:57 <Taneb> It contains an implementation of Lambda Calculus
16:52:05 <Taneb> Using Uniques as the variables
16:52:08 <Taneb> Because I am on FIRE
16:52:13 <Taneb> (not literally)
16:52:18 <Taneb> (or figuratively)
16:55:26 <elliott> hi
16:55:28 <elliott> dont use uniques
16:55:30 <elliott> asthe viarbales
16:55:31 <elliott> thats dum
16:55:35 * Sgeo_ uses a fire extinguisher on Taneb
16:56:05 <Sgeo_> It's a metaphorical fire extinguisher. I have no idea what it's a metaphor for.
16:56:36 -!- azaq23 has joined.
16:56:39 <Taneb> My restoration of sanity?
17:18:18 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:27:33 -!- asiekierka_ has joined.
17:27:33 -!- asiekierka_ has quit (Client Quit).
17:27:57 <elliott> hi ais523
17:29:33 <ais523> hi
17:29:33 <lambdabot> ais523: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
17:35:10 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
17:48:23 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
17:48:43 <hagb4rd> was geht ab homies?
17:50:05 <ais523> @messages
17:50:05 <lambdabot> elliott said 1d 5h 16m 49s ago: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4471
17:50:05 <lambdabot> elliott said 1d 2h 57m 15s ago: Stop appearing where I least expect you!
17:50:48 <elliott> heh
17:50:52 <elliott> those two messages are completely unrelated :)
17:51:14 <ais523> oh, and CBPV is a vaguely misleading name in that sense; stack semantics are not the only semantics that exist for it, although its stack semantics are kind-of neat
17:51:44 <elliott> hmm, in what sense? I know the stack semantics thing was discussed in the comments
17:52:18 <elliott> the second one was about you being mentioned in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#The_History_of_G7, which I was reading for... god knows what reason
17:55:11 <kmc> elliott, is that from #haskell?
17:55:19 <kmc> the discussion of CMSes
17:56:26 <ais523> elliott: fwiw, that restriction on G7 was originally there to stop someone who was annoyed with the project to go round speedying everything they'd ever contributed
17:57:21 <ais523> bleh, so what's the DRV that thing was talking about?
17:58:14 <ais523> fun fact: I wasn't an admin when I made that unilateral change to G7
17:58:29 <elliott> kmc: yes
17:58:48 <kmc> :(
17:59:01 <elliott> ais523: 03:33, 6 March 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+11,755)‎ . . Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion ‎ (→‎The History of G7: new section)
17:59:01 <elliott> 03:23, 6 March 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+1,474)‎ . . Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2012 March 2 ‎ (Endorse, comment)
17:59:01 <elliott> 02:22, 2 March 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+2,135)‎ . . Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2012 February 14 ‎ (→‎User:Bittergrey/CAMH_Promotion: overturn)
17:59:03 <elliott> probably one of those two
18:00:26 <elliott> ais523: ah, it might be http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2012_February_28&diff=prev&oldid=479475708
18:00:37 <ais523> it's feb 14, salvador tercero
18:02:03 <elliott> ah, indeed
18:10:47 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:14:51 <elliott> kmc: currently in #haskell we are learning that FRP behaviors should be (a -> a) instead of (Time -> a)
18:15:02 <elliott> because that means you no longer have behaviours that "relate to both events and time in themselves" which is incorrect
18:15:07 <elliott> fucking kill me
18:15:20 <elliott> (i felt like making you suffer as much as i am)
18:16:01 * Sgeo_ whats at a -> a being behaviors
18:16:27 <Mathnerd314> elliott: I think it's more like (b -> a)
18:16:41 <Mathnerd314> maybe (Timelike b) => (b -> a)
18:17:14 <elliott> Mathnerd314: that's probably just TimeDictionary -> a, more or less
18:17:17 <elliott> aka Time -> a
18:18:04 <Mathnerd314> 'k
18:22:12 <kmc> (FunctionLike f) => f
18:23:05 <Mathnerd314> I think the universal quantification gets you something though
18:24:41 <kmc> gets you coolness points
18:25:06 <elliott> Mathnerd314: well, no, not if you can rewrite it in the dictionary form, because it'll be literally equivalent
18:25:14 <elliott> however nobody seems to know what Timelike should actually contain, so...
18:25:22 <kmc> after all the point of haskell is typeclasses and monads so let's have as much of those as possible
18:25:44 <elliott> <timthelion> elliott: except we have no variable time. It doesn't matter WHEN, but in which order!
18:25:48 <elliott> WHOAAAAA MAAAAAAAN
18:26:00 <elliott> he's REVOLUTIONISED frp, all it took was the reading of the original paper
18:26:05 <elliott> god i'm so grumpy
18:26:20 <Mathnerd314> do something fun, like another esolang
18:27:22 <elliott> esolangs are hard :(
18:27:26 <elliott> yelling at people on irc is easier
18:28:02 <Mathnerd314> but it makes you grumpy...
18:29:09 <elliott> i'm always grumpy
18:29:18 <elliott> maybe i'll yell at fungot instead
18:29:19 <fungot> elliott: and that is? you've had it for some time i added a new page and sends it to emacs, i suggest, vote). you need to install in /usr/ lib " 1.ss" " srfi". is this a cognate of the spanish fnord fnord?
18:29:53 <fizzie> You'll make fungot feel bad. :/
18:29:53 <fungot> fizzie:, so i'd be happy to help an fnord archive). fnord :) fnord would it be it by now. try. i've often amused myself that way. consider this platform i am aware, commissioner, that there are no gentiles in the garden, examining the fastenings of the drawing-room window, washing and the summoning of the small piece of source code anywhere there's whitespace is ignored and made my own, freed. in c, it's dlopen(). if it's compu
18:30:25 <elliott> sorry fungot ilu
18:30:28 <elliott> hearts
18:30:29 <elliott> hearts for fungot
18:30:30 <fungot> elliott:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov
18:30:35 <fizzie> Heh.
18:30:35 <elliott> why did it ignore me the first time ;_;
18:30:39 <fizzie> One of the classics.
18:30:42 <fizzie> Also maybe a BUG.
18:30:57 <Mathnerd314> > fungot + 1
18:30:58 <fungot> Mathnerd314: ( ( ( a()**)a*:a*)(a()**)a*:a*)((x1)(x2)(x3)) ...out of time! don't let that binds the variables, you probably want is broken" archives. even less chance. i called " o" in " the other side has that as their whole fnord range of the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there
18:30:58 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `fungot'
18:31:11 <elliott> airbus is a big fan of avril
18:31:11 <fizzie> elliott: It ignored you because your message was RAW >>> :fizzie!fis@un��fZ�iytzd/}b{v�e�n��VMSd #esoteric :You'll m:elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry fungot ilu <<<
18:31:12 <fungot> fizzie: i, myself, will bring an end to all. ghosts lurk in the ruins were in truth, and everything in readiness for fnord. under these, too.)
18:31:22 <elliott> fizzie: I'll try to avoid turning into a corrupted you in future.
18:31:42 <ais523> what's with all the control characters in the part of the message that the user /doesn't/ have control over?
18:31:51 <fizzie> ais523: It's a BUG.
18:32:08 <ais523> in fungot or in the ircd?
18:32:08 <fungot> ais523: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going to the theater
18:32:14 <fizzie> ais523: In fungot.
18:32:15 <fungot> fizzie: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there is, that's what sorts of startup?
18:32:28 <ais523> hmm, that fungot reply to me, I guess is mostly verbatim
18:32:28 <fungot> ais523: " and this is a new game. there is no new-line in morse code ( the way databases do it), but... it's x-treme!
18:32:35 <ais523> perhaps made from two or three quotes
18:32:51 <fizzie> ais523: It seems to happen when the generated sentence is very long; presumably it corrupts the message buffer. Though they should be mostly on separate lines, so I don't know how.
18:33:03 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
18:37:27 <Madoka-Kaname> ^ul ( ( ( a()**)a*:a*)(a()**)a*:a*)((x1)(x2)(x3))
18:37:29 <fizzie> ais523: As for the comment, I can't really find its sources. I found a previous generated message that said "yeah i call them mindless games because i don't", but that's about it. Might be due to the preprocessing that has made the sources not match my greps.
18:37:42 <ais523> fair enough
18:37:52 <ais523> Madoka-Kaname: that contains no output instructions
18:37:58 <ais523> so I'm not sure what you were expecting
18:38:04 <Madoka-Kaname> <fungot> Mathnerd314: ( ( ( a()**)a*:a*)(a()**)a*:a*)((x1)(x2)(x3)) ...out of time! don't let that binds the variables, you probably want is broken" archives. even less chance. i called " o" in " the other side has that as their whole fnord range of the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there
18:38:04 <fungot> Madoka-Kaname: if it's ( syntactically) long debate with a few more things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some things we can deploy but some thi
18:38:06 <ais523> also, it just pushes one thing onto the stack
18:38:06 <fizzie> I should maybe have a "no output" message just in case.
18:38:23 <Madoka-Kaname> fungot knew it
18:38:23 <fungot> Madoka-Kaname: make it pink"." atom) in the room is rarely use s-exps... it will use it to buy it
18:38:26 <ais523> oh, fungot said it? it still isn't particularly useful as Underload programs go
18:38:26 <fungot> ais523: if it's ( syntactically) long years. when will it be the reptites, or you silly apes who end up ruling the world? yes, i'd have done something very brave? fnord 06:22, 29, no. 2, 2, 3, 4, 8, 13, 1(::**) ...bad insn!
18:38:27 <Madoka-Kaname> I wanted to see what fungot knew.
18:38:27 <fungot> Madoka-Kaname: c has an ignore restarter, restart/ ignore do? the symbols, pairs, procedures, and so am i just being anal here or am i misunderstanding how these were the people skills of a plane to the next place and then the file
18:38:34 <ais523> I mean, even less so than usual
18:38:48 <fizzie> ^rainbow2 most useful Underload program
18:38:48 <fungot> ...too much output!
18:38:48 <Madoka-Kaname> What would that code do
18:38:49 <elliott> <timthelion> elliott: I did understand C. Elliott's paper. I don't think I was wrong at all there. I only think, that it was written in 97 and that the concepts can be expressed much much better... Unfortunatly, the modern stuff, still uses his old vocabulary, which was missguided...
18:39:56 <Madoka-Kaname> Make a mandelbrot renderer in Underload
18:39:59 <Madoka-Kaname> That outputs in BMP format
18:40:04 <elliott> no
18:40:46 <Madoka-Kaname> Make a pi computer
18:40:55 <elliott> no
18:41:42 <fizzie> Make a pie.
18:41:48 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
18:41:48 <fizzie> Bake a pie.
18:41:51 <kmc> make a -fPIE
18:42:05 <elliott> poop is everything
18:42:12 <fizzie> A position-independent pie.
18:42:15 <Madoka-Kaname> Make a underload interpreter in underload
18:42:18 <fizzie> You can eat it everywhere.
18:42:36 <elliott> Madoka-Kaname: been done
18:42:42 <Madoka-Kaname> Brainfuck interpreter?
18:43:01 <kmc> when pizza's on a bagel you can eat pizza anytime!
18:43:41 <Phantom__Hoover> An Eodermdrome interpreter in literally anything at all?
18:43:46 <Phantom__Hoover> (This is a wish list, right?)
18:44:24 <itidus21> make a monitor whose aspect ratio is pi
18:46:13 <ais523> itidus21: can't be done exactly, obviously
18:46:17 <ais523> unless you can have fractional pixels somehow
18:46:23 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
18:46:25 <itidus21> ahhh
18:47:00 <itidus21> yeah it is a pretty bad idea
18:47:37 <ais523> that's pretty much the definition of irrational
18:47:49 <ais523> except you can optimise out the actual monitor
18:48:32 <itidus21> yeah, a monitor which was 1:3 would just be bad. the whole exercize would be pointless if it wasn't even actually pi
18:48:39 <fizzie> You could use a 22:7 pi-approximation monitor.
18:48:45 <fizzie> It's a well-known number, after all.
18:48:55 <fizzie> Don't they celebrate Pi Approximation Day then or something?
18:51:07 <ais523> 44th July!
18:53:12 <Mathnerd314> > tau
18:53:13 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `tau'
18:53:16 <Mathnerd314> > pi
18:53:17 <lambdabot> 3.141592653589793
18:53:20 <Mathnerd314> :-/
18:53:41 <Mathnerd314> @hoogle pi
18:53:41 <lambdabot> Prelude pi :: Floating a => a
18:53:42 <lambdabot> Data.Fixed type Pico = Fixed E12
18:53:42 <lambdabot> Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.PixelRectangles module Graphics.Rendering.OpenGL.GL.PixelRectangles
18:53:52 <itidus21> wiki says CinemaScope goes up to 2.66:1 .. which isn't that far from pi
18:53:59 <itidus21> maybe they could get away with pi
18:55:30 <itidus21> 2.76:1 (~11:4) Ultra Panavision 70 (65 mm with 1.25x anamorphic squeeze). Used only on a handful of films between 1962 and 1966, such as the Battle of the Bulge (1965).
18:57:31 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
18:58:08 -!- augur has joined.
19:00:07 <itidus21> apparently some movie "napoleon" was 4:1
19:01:48 <RocketJSquirrel> The original Stargate was some absurdly wide aspect ratio.
19:01:58 <RocketJSquirrel> Probably not that much ;)
19:03:10 <itidus21> ah it was only last 20 mins of a 5 hour film was 4:1 it seems
19:10:39 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
19:11:06 <Madoka-Kaname> I just had a crazy idea for Brainfuck minimization
19:11:10 <Madoka-Kaname> Take boolfuck.
19:11:16 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:11:27 <elliott> taken
19:11:29 <elliott> >
19:11:45 <Taneb> Hello!
19:11:49 <Madoka-Kaname> And define @ as "flips the bit if mp%3==0, outputs 0 if mp%3==1, outputs 1 if mp%3==2"
19:11:52 <elliott> I don't understand "Hello!".
19:11:53 <elliott> >
19:11:56 <elliott> I don't understand "And".
19:11:57 <elliott> >
19:12:06 <Taneb> let x = 1 in x + x
19:12:22 <elliott> I don't understand "let". Professional tip: Use "look" to view your surroundings.
19:12:22 <Madoka-Kaname> Removes both IO instructions by making them implicit
19:12:22 <elliott> >
19:12:27 <elliott> I don't understand "removes".
19:12:28 <elliott> >
19:12:40 <Taneb> look
19:12:47 <Madoka-Kaname> def Hello! = look
19:12:49 <Madoka-Kaname> Hello!
19:12:56 <elliott> You are in an IRC channel.
19:12:58 <elliott> There are so many idiots here.
19:13:02 <elliott> >
19:13:09 <elliott> For macro support, please purchase elliott adventure: advanced edition.
19:13:10 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:13:10 <elliott> >
19:13:11 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host).
19:13:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:13:36 <Madoka-Kaname> pick nose with ice pick
19:13:56 <elliott> You die.
19:14:01 <elliott> SCORE: 100/100
19:16:27 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
19:22:11 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:22:32 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:22:32 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host).
19:22:32 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
19:32:11 <Madoka-Kaname> http://paste.strictfp.com/26718?key=3395700907e5fb72c3cc04e0b68b5f31
19:32:21 <Madoka-Kaname> Can anybody see any problem with this brainfuck minimization?
19:34:40 <ais523> do you mean data pointer, rather than instruction pointer?
19:35:19 <ais523> and it doesn't seem /wrong/, but does seem rather arbitrary, it's halfway down the path to Whirl already
19:35:30 <ais523> which has only two instructions using a similar but even more blatant trick
19:35:31 <Phantom__Hoover> <ais523> itidus21: can't be done exactly, obviously
19:35:31 <Phantom__Hoover> <ais523> unless you can have fractional pixels somehow
19:35:34 <Madoka-Kaname> data pointer, yeah
19:35:45 <Phantom__Hoover> Or a continuous display.
19:38:32 <Madoka-Kaname> ais523, I'm pretty sure you could encode } in Boolfuck
19:38:51 <ais523> hmm
19:38:59 <Madoka-Kaname> Just leave behind a few markers in the memory
19:39:08 <ais523> couldn't you do the same with Whirl? it'd be a really complex encoding, but I don't see why it wouldn't be /possible/
19:40:35 <Madoka-Kaname> I suppose
19:40:36 -!- MoALTz has joined.
19:41:45 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
19:46:09 <Taneb> Here's a not-very-good joke:
19:46:30 <Taneb> Why was the statistician hungry?
19:46:41 <Taneb> Because he could binomial!
19:46:47 <elliott> ha
19:46:48 <elliott> ha
19:46:48 <elliott> ha
19:46:48 <elliott> ha
19:46:49 <elliott> ha
19:46:49 <elliott> ha
19:46:50 <elliott> ha
19:46:52 <elliott> ha
19:46:54 <elliott> ha
19:46:56 <elliott> ha
19:46:58 <elliott> ...
19:47:00 <elliott> ha
19:47:53 <Taneb> Also, he is long term unemployed
19:49:49 <fizzie> Now it went sad.
19:50:00 <elliott> :(
19:50:12 <elliott> Taneb comedy "a range of emotions"
19:55:59 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
19:59:04 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
20:01:15 -!- zzo38 has joined.
20:07:03 <elliott> it's funny because unemployed
20:07:22 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:08:01 <elliott> hi oerjan
20:10:13 -!- oerjan has set topic: This is NOT the WORST MARMITE you will ABSORB all GUY FAWKES NIGHT: http://championofbirds.com/?p=4991 | The proof is trivial! Just view the problem as a convex algebra whose elements are alternating Turing machines | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
20:10:33 <oerjan> and hi
20:10:39 <ion> Why did the chicken cross the road?
20:10:46 <ion> Because the statistician is unemployed.
20:11:22 <oerjan> i ... see
20:11:52 <Taneb> ion, correlation does not employ causation
20:12:31 <ion> taneb: Ah, i understand what you mean. Let me fix it.
20:12:35 <ion> Why is the statistician unemployed?
20:12:40 <ion> Because the chicken crossed the road.
20:12:46 <elliott> ha
20:12:47 <elliott> ha
20:12:48 <elliott> ha
20:12:48 <elliott> ha
20:12:49 <elliott> ,,,
20:12:49 <elliott> ah
20:12:50 <elliott> ha
20:14:02 <ion> Correlation correlates so strongly with causation it’s obvious correlation implies causation.
20:15:12 <oerjan> 07:52:09: <NSQX> Yes, that is the same thing as http://esolangs.org/wiki/TLWNN
20:15:12 <oerjan> 07:52:52: <NSQX> Do you want to know how I changed the page's name to no title?
20:15:21 <oerjan> i guess he cannot be all bad after all
20:15:56 <elliott> oerjan: Next time it'll be your morning taken up figuring out how to move the page back.
20:16:11 <oerjan> elliott: wait, it didn't work?
20:16:19 <elliott> Yes, it "worked".
20:16:32 <elliott> It "worked" to produce a page that nobody could type in, that was unclickable from recent changes, and that was very difficult to link to.
20:16:40 <elliott> A vast "improvement".
20:16:53 <elliott> (Especially since the resulting title was not actually blank...)
20:17:08 <oerjan> i mean, i cleaguely recall someone discussing that it _should_ have had no title
20:17:24 <elliott> I jokingly suggested I might hide the title element on the page once.
20:17:39 <elliott> Obviously you can move any page to a Unicode mess that looks like it's nothing.
20:18:25 <oerjan> ok so heart in the right place, cursed with bad judgement.
20:18:36 <oerjan> ^ current temporary verdict
20:19:14 <elliott> I suppose the idea might make sense if you just read the hatnote and not the rest of the page where the language is constantly referred to as "TLWNN"...
20:19:30 <oerjan> well ok
20:19:52 * oerjan continues his policy of refusing to get dragged into infuriating stuff
20:23:01 <oerjan> until next time, anyway
20:23:37 <elliott> Don't worry: I won't let myself wake up for the fourth day in a row with a mess to clean up.
20:24:12 <oerjan> elliott: btw i see he changed the method - was the original soft hyphen one working more reasonably?
20:24:29 <elliott> i woke up after it all happened.
20:24:40 <elliott> i don't know why it was changed. but both titles are unacceptable
20:24:56 <elliott> both are unclickable, both are difficult to make links to (they won't even copy from the address bar in my browser)
20:24:57 <oerjan> because the idea of replacing every instance of "TLWNN" with "" is tempting.
20:25:09 <oerjan> oh unclickable, right
20:25:16 <elliott> oerjan: that would be vandalism, especially since smjg: (Move log); 15:13 . . Smjg (Talk | contribs | block)‎ moved ​TLWNN to TLWNN (put it back at the title it's meant to be at)
20:25:35 <zzo38> Actually if you know where it is, you can click to the left of it and then push tab and then enter
20:25:36 <oerjan> ok smjg is the author?
20:25:39 <elliott> yes.
20:25:43 <oerjan> very well then.
20:26:10 <elliott> (that former title is the one I incorrectly moved it back to, which has unicode junk at the start of it that doesn't show up if you move a text cursor through the line and doesn't copy)
20:26:16 <oerjan> i am partially thinking of this because random happened to send me to Whitespace yesterday
20:26:39 <elliott> (which had fun effects like "TLWNN" in the search bar -> "This article doesnt exist lol heres a search page why not create [[TLWNN]]" -> click the redlink -> the article displays)
20:26:52 <oerjan> and i thought it would have been fun to make a spec for it that used the actual characters rather than any character names, everywhere
20:27:02 <elliott> heh
20:27:07 <elliott> I think MediaWiki might strip a lot of those out
20:27:21 <oerjan> elliott: yes, but not in pre.
20:27:26 <elliott> ah
20:27:34 <elliott> oerjan: i still doubt it maintains \n vs. \r\n.
20:27:42 <elliott> hmm, does whitespace use \r?
20:28:01 <oerjan> elliott: only as a synonym for \n, i think
20:28:19 <elliott> well, i think \n might end up normalised to \r\n
20:28:20 <oerjan> possibly allowing \r\n to work as both
20:28:22 <elliott> which would break things, I think
20:28:24 <elliott> ah
20:28:36 <oerjan> elliott: i think that was the _intention_
20:28:45 <elliott> what, breaking things?
20:28:46 <elliott> quite
20:30:10 <oerjan> anyway i got stuck on two points (1) it looks like there is no way to use tab inline (i haven't quite checked it completely) (2) how _does_ one make a spec without infringing copyright on the original, anyway?
20:30:44 <itidus21> how boring it would be for you guys to maintain the wiki without NSQX and
20:33:41 <olsner> maybe if wiki maintenance was boring, elliott could go make some new esolangs instead
20:33:54 <Taneb> I made an esolang recently
20:33:54 <Taneb> :)
20:34:27 <Taneb> I will make another soon
20:34:39 <olsner> ah, real fast nora?
20:34:47 <Taneb> Yes
20:35:02 <Taneb> Actually, oerjan, can you swat olsner?
20:35:18 <Taneb> It's Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
20:37:44 <Taneb> Also, Fueue, which needs more love
20:38:21 <elliott> back
20:38:31 <elliott> oerjan: (2) by rewriting it
20:38:38 <elliott> languages aren't copyrightable, prose is
20:39:04 <elliott> oerjan: compare using an encyclopedia as a source for a paper and copying its text
20:39:17 <elliott> ok, it's not an objective standard, but nothing is in copyright
20:39:22 * oerjan swats olsner ----
20:39:43 <Taneb> I declare the content of my webpage Public Domain, mainly because I copy a lot of it from the wiki and don't really understand copyright
20:39:48 <oerjan> you only get half the swatter since you only gave part of the name
20:40:03 <elliott> Taneb: You can put a fancy logo from Creative Commons on the page!!!
20:40:15 <elliott> http://creativecommons.org/choose/zero/
20:40:36 <olsner> oerjan: so if I had given nothing of the name, I would have had none of the swat?
20:40:37 <ais523> Taneb: you can copy public domain anywhere without problems
20:40:45 <oerjan> olsner: POSSIBLE
20:41:15 <Taneb> ais523, yeah, but I don't want to get it backwards and get the wiki in trouble
20:41:25 <elliott> Taneb: when you submit it to the wiki, you release it
20:41:31 <elliott> whether you copied it from your site or not, as long as it's yours
20:41:53 <ais523> Taneb: the opposite is all-rights-reserved, which would get you in trouble rather than the wiki
20:41:58 <elliott> (also, the only person who could get the wiki into trouble if we /did/ violate your copyrights is you, more or less)
20:42:10 <elliott> ais523: backwards as in copying from site -> wik
20:42:11 <elliott> i
20:42:31 <ais523> elliott: not sure
20:42:47 <elliott> Taneb: I like your page's background, by the way.
20:43:43 <elliott> olsner: anyway, as i was saying to ais523, I've actually worked on *two* esolangs recently, except one of them stopped being esoteric
20:44:15 <olsner> elliott: oh, ok
20:44:28 <olsner> I just assumed that since I hadn't noticed, you weren't doing anything
20:45:09 <olsner> so which are those esolangs you've supposedly been working on?
20:45:36 <Taneb> elliott, thanks
20:47:11 <elliott> olsner: My name is Johny, what the F**K?????, and an unnamed language
20:48:49 <Taneb> Hey, does Fueue count as concatenative?
20:49:03 <elliott> Taneb: does appending one program to another sequence them together?
20:49:09 <olsner> oh, another spam-inspired esoname... doesn't seem to have anything on the wiki though
20:49:09 <elliott> or, more formally,
20:49:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:49:39 <elliott> Taneb: considering a fueue program as a function from a queue to a queue, does (p ++ q)(queue) represent q(p(queue))?
20:49:43 <elliott> where ++ is just appending the two programs together
20:49:44 <Taneb> elliott, I don't think so...
20:49:51 <Taneb> No it doesn't
20:50:14 <elliott> then it's not concatenative... unless you misunderstood me :)
20:58:43 -!- monqy has joined.
21:00:06 <elliott> hi monqy
21:01:17 <quintopia> where is monqy from
21:01:27 <quintopia> clearly an amonqyan
21:01:28 <monqy> hi
21:01:58 <elliott> he is from the america
21:02:09 <quintopia> but which state, you know?
21:02:15 <olsner> finland, probably
21:02:21 <elliott> i know which state! i don't know if monqy wants quintopia to know which state.
21:02:31 <elliott> i wouldn't trust quintopia.
21:02:44 <quintopia> it's true. i might, like...end up knowing a fact
21:02:52 <quintopia> wouldn't want that
21:03:52 -!- derdon has joined.
21:08:32 <monqy> I don't really care but
21:08:38 <monqy> why do you want to know, just curiosity???
21:09:12 <elliott> (stalking)
21:11:29 <monqy> :(
21:11:46 <monqy> is quintopia creepy
21:11:56 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined.
21:12:04 <quintopia> so that i can judge you based on your time zone
21:12:22 <quintopia> if you are atlantic time, i will judge SO HARD
21:12:39 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:12:44 * oerjan tests in the sandbox: <div class="plainpres">Testing "<pre style="display: inline">&#9;</pre>" ho!</div>
21:12:57 <elliott> this am not
21:12:58 <elliott> the sandboxe
21:13:07 <oerjan> elliott: i'm just quoting from it
21:13:22 <elliott> :'(
21:13:27 <oerjan> maybe i should save it for the future
21:13:38 <monqy> quintopia: im pacific time
21:13:57 <quintopia> monqy: JUDGE JUDGE JUDGE okay j/k
21:13:58 <oerjan> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox
21:14:07 <quintopia> monqy: rainy pacific or sunny pacific?
21:14:18 <monqy> at the moment it's raining
21:14:23 <monqy> but i think it's sunny pacific
21:14:53 <oerjan> elliott: the div is only because class="plainpres" apparently doesn't affect the element _itself_ if it's a pre
21:15:50 <elliott> yes, indeed.
21:16:09 <elliott> oerjan: try display: inline-block
21:16:18 <elliott> that's like a block element, but smushed up with the other text
21:16:19 <elliott> very useful
21:16:23 <oerjan> what's the difference?
21:17:34 <oerjan> hm really this should probably have <code> style, but it needs to be a <pre> because that's the only thing which preserves tabs...
21:17:36 <elliott> oerjan: inline is inline
21:17:39 <elliott> inline-block is inline-block
21:17:44 <elliott> see CSS spec if you need gory details
21:17:51 <elliott> oerjan: you can give the white-space property to a <code>
21:17:54 <elliott> to get it to preserve whitespace inside
21:18:15 <elliott> i can either make that work, or do the W image after wikipedia links today. pick one :P
21:18:23 <oerjan> hm let me test
21:18:34 -!- augur has joined.
21:18:36 <quintopia> so monqy is in LA or somewhere just NW of there. this is a place i feel kin to, so ...
21:18:40 * quintopia does not judge
21:18:52 -!- Vorpal has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net).
21:19:05 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:19:12 <oerjan> elliott: i am sceptical because i found on google someone complaining how they couldn't get white-space: pre to work for tabs
21:19:27 <elliott> fair enough then
21:19:31 <elliott> oerjan: but <pre>s are not special at all.
21:19:31 <oerjan> or that it varied chaotically between browsers
21:19:39 <elliott> the CSS rules are the only thing making them special.
21:19:49 <oerjan> elliott: oh? hm.
21:19:53 <elliott> so if you want, you can make an <i> look just like a <pre>
21:19:55 <elliott> well this is in theory.
21:20:00 <elliott> i can't guarantee it applies to all browsers in practice.
21:20:05 <elliott> but they all use html5 parsers nowadays
21:20:07 <elliott> so I'd /hope/ it doe
21:20:08 <elliott> s
21:20:09 <elliott> *does
21:20:26 <elliott> oerjan: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox
21:20:30 <elliott> inline-block works perfectly
21:21:35 <elliott> oerjan: wow
21:21:42 <elliott> oerjan: i google "white-space css3". top result is safalra's website.
21:21:50 <oerjan> ok
21:22:04 <oerjan> elliott: white-space: pre does work in IE8, at least.
21:22:08 <elliott> oerjan: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Sandbox here it is with a <code>
21:22:25 <elliott> you might want to put that in a {{tab}} template or such
21:22:51 <olsner> looks like http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS/#properties has the whole list
21:23:30 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:23:43 <oerjan> elliott: is the difference with inline-block that it puts the tabstops starting from the beginning of the block rather than the whole line?
21:24:01 <olsner> but it'd be nice if googling for css and a property actually got you the css spec rather than a boatload of random crap from the 'webs
21:24:41 <itidus21> from wiki i finally see why aspect ratios are x/y where x> y .. since eyes are arranged horizontally on one's face
21:25:41 <elliott> oerjan: ok, let me try and explain the difference between inline and inline-block
21:25:46 <elliott> oerjan: say your element has a red outline
21:25:54 <elliott> if it's inline, then the outline will start where your text starts, wrap across lines, etc.
21:25:59 <elliott> i.e. an inline element flows with the text, so to speak
21:26:07 <elliott> with an inline-block element, the outline will always be rectangular
21:26:17 <elliott> it basically renders it as a block and /places/ it inline
21:26:43 <elliott> oerjan: otherwise, this might help: http://dustwell.com/div-span-inline-block.html
21:26:49 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:26:55 -!- pikhq has joined.
21:27:17 <elliott> oerjan: i'm not sure exactly _why_ it helps in this case.
21:27:31 <elliott> but i guess that "inline" text collapses whitespace always, or something
21:29:23 <elliott> <timthelion> osa1: basically, an imperitive program is just a program that is deterministic as to order of evaluation. Many mathematical structures are determinstic, gnostically, as to order of evaluation, therefore, imperitiveness is a subset of the structures which haskell can represent.
21:29:33 <elliott> i guess not making sense is this guy's day job
21:33:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:33:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host).
21:33:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:34:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
21:36:09 <elliott> hi Phantom_Hoover
21:36:27 <Phantom_Hoover> bye Taneb
21:37:38 <elliott> bye Phantom_Hoover
21:37:57 <Phantom_Hoover> hahaha im not falling for that one again
21:38:15 <elliott> hi Taneb
21:41:07 <itidus21> elliott: he is saying that haskell can be both imperative and non-imperative
21:43:43 <itidus21> .....i think
21:45:03 -!- augur has joined.
21:45:13 <olsner> I think he's saying that imperitiveness is, gnostically, a subset of haskell
21:45:46 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:46:30 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
21:47:00 <olsner> Gnostic Subset, that could be the name of something
21:48:53 <itidus21> using assignment operator '=' ... many mathematical structures = imperative program = deterministic, gnostically, as to over of evaluation
21:50:02 <itidus21> ^order....
21:51:59 <oerjan> as a general rule, mathematical notation doesn't make things clearer unless you first understand what you are saying.
21:52:32 <elliott> olsner: band, when in doubt it's always a band
21:52:53 <elliott> `addquote <oerjan> as a general rule, mathematical notation doesn't make things clearer unless you first understand what you are saying.
21:53:02 <HackEgo> 832) <oerjan> as a general rule, mathematical notation doesn't make things clearer unless you first understand what you are saying.
21:55:47 <Sgeo_> Dear Chrome, please start being OK with YouTube again
21:56:18 <itidus21> Sgeo_: it wouldn't make sense for a company's browser to be the most compatible with one of that companies websites
21:56:43 <fizzie> oerjan: You must = mistaken.
21:57:00 <oerjan> O KAY
21:58:02 <itidus21> i don't know any neater way than to express X = Z, Y = Z than to say X = Y = Z
21:58:32 <itidus21> but i don't actually mean to say X is Z
21:59:37 <Sgeo_> So, some non-transietive version of equality?
22:00:04 <itidus21> cars turn green in the spring. eggs turn green, gnostically, in the spring. .. so i phrased it as.. cars = eggs = turn green, gnostically, in the spring
22:00:16 <elliott> is transietive like imperitive
22:00:25 <elliott> very droll
22:00:57 <Sgeo_> elliott, I can't spell
22:01:15 <Sgeo_> But the property of ? specifying that if a ? b and b ? c then a ? c
22:01:17 <itidus21> spelling english words is not necessary to be a programmer
22:01:37 <itidus21> anyway, if its english as a second language it matters even less
22:02:45 <elliott> "transitive" hth
22:02:55 <itidus21> sorry im in a shitty mood
22:03:04 <olsner> it's much more important to put the correct amount of spaces on the correct side of punctuation marks !
22:03:22 <ais523> elliott: in your very recent Mr. Snuggles CFJ, did you consider the implications of submitting it without proper arguments or evidence?
22:03:29 <ais523> olsner: enigma contains different floors !
22:04:59 <ais523> (minor achievement I've accomplished: submitting the same puzzle to two different unrelated puzzle competitions both named "Enigma")
22:05:17 <elliott> ais523: I'm not a player, so I don't think I have to
22:06:14 <ais523> so you didn't?
22:06:37 <shachaf> `welcome elliott
22:06:41 <HackEgo> elliott: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:06:53 <NihilistDandy> elliott: You're totally a player
22:07:11 <elliott> ais523: maybe I did, maybe I didn't... whichever one will not result in you doing something nasty like criminal cfjing me
22:07:19 <ais523> I'm going to criminal CFJ you /anyway/
22:07:23 <elliott> oh
22:07:26 <elliott> well, I definitely did
22:07:34 <elliott> I concluded that it was for the good of Agora for me to submit that CFJ
22:07:41 <elliott> mainly because it would lead to the game's collapse, which is for the best
22:07:49 <ais523> you're not helping
22:08:02 <ais523> I wanted a nice clear precedent on whether it was possible to violate a SHOULD or not
22:08:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:08:52 <elliott> oh
22:09:00 <elliott> well, truthfully, I didn't :P
22:09:16 <elliott> i suppose the only way i can be punished is EXILE, which is rather ineffective.
22:09:19 <ais523> somehow I guessed that :)
22:09:23 <RocketJSquirrel> `learn welcome We are pleased to welcome you to the conception of the international application and the language centre. For more information about de la wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
22:09:27 <HackEgo> I knew that.
22:09:29 <ais523> and indeed, and it's possible you'll have a low or null centre
22:09:35 <ais523> *punishment
22:09:37 <ais523> even if you are found guilty
22:10:16 <elliott> `revert
22:10:19 <HackEgo> Done.
22:10:23 <RocketJSquirrel> :(
22:10:33 <elliott> ais523: centre -> punishment? how
22:10:41 <ais523> elliott: no idea
22:10:42 <itidus21> Sgeo_: hmm.. it seems actually that i was using = as a concatenation operator
22:10:47 <RocketJSquirrel> He read my line :)
22:10:49 <ais523> oh, must have been a mental typo for "sentence"
22:10:52 <ais523> then I couldn't find the original line
22:10:54 <ais523> *word
22:11:16 * elliott finds RocketJSquirrel's explanation more plausible
22:11:19 <Sgeo_> ais523, didn't I try to do something to test that?
22:11:23 <Sgeo_> The SHOULD thing?
22:11:27 <ais523> Sgeo_: possibly
22:11:32 <ais523> can you find a link or reference to it?
22:11:38 <itidus21> so.. X + Z, Y + Z ... (X | Y) + Z
22:11:56 <ais523> itidus21: you changed notation in the middle of your line? or didn't you?
22:12:22 <itidus21> i didnt know what i was doing....
22:12:46 <itidus21> but there you have it.. X + Z, Y + Z therefore (X | Y) + Z
22:12:54 <Sgeo_> ais523, http://zenith.homelinux.net/cotc/viewcase.php?cfj=2383
22:13:13 <ais523> Sgeo_: thanks!
22:13:16 <elliott> *http://cfj.qoid.us/2383
22:13:20 <elliott> ftfy hth
22:13:33 <elliott> ais523: heh, you called it
22:13:34 <Sgeo_> elliott, what's the big difference that you're saying that that site is better?
22:14:11 <elliott> Sgeo_: cfj.qoid.us loads before the heat death of the universe, and i don't have to increase the font size a few times before not wanting to claw my eyes out
22:14:12 <Sgeo_> http://zenith.homelinux.net/cotc/viewcase.php?cfj=2383a or http://cfj.qoid.us/2383a
22:14:17 <itidus21> (many mathematical structures are | an imperative program is) deterministic, gnostically, as to over of evaluation
22:14:28 <elliott> oh, the font size seems to be better nowadays
22:14:52 <itidus21> *phew*
22:15:31 <ais523> I typically use zenith over qoid, I'm more used to its search function
22:16:07 <itidus21> ^order of...
22:17:41 <NihilistDandy> This game looks fun
22:17:47 <elliott> ais523: Ctrl+F is a good enough search :P
22:17:53 <elliott> NihilistDandy: http://agoranomic.org/, you should join!
22:18:04 <elliott> it's having a bit of a slump right now
22:18:10 <elliott> but unlike B, there's no cosmic guarantee it's just getting out of one
22:18:34 <NihilistDandy> I'm into the idea. Gonna read up a bit and then probably join
22:18:59 <Sgeo_> ais523, I don't know if that appeal adequately explores stuff, considering the involvement of a direct admission...
22:19:13 <elliott> NihilistDandy: http://agora.qoid.us/current_flr.html is nice, it links rules and CFJs together
22:19:25 <ais523> it doesn't, if it did we wouldn't need another CFJ on the matter
22:19:29 <ais523> but it's a good history
22:19:33 <ais523> a good context
22:19:34 <NihilistDandy> lol
22:19:35 <ais523> err, precedent
22:19:36 <elliott> NihilistDandy: although http://agora.qoid.us/current_slr.txt might by better for a beginner, since they probably don't care about all the CFJs
22:19:42 <elliott> *be better
22:20:02 <itidus21> oh no it's australia-ish
22:20:17 <elliott> hmm, although the summaries are useful
22:20:24 <elliott> ais523: what would you recommend for a beginner, the SLR or FLR?
22:20:29 <ais523> FLR
22:20:36 <ais523> SLR is only good if you know your way around already
22:20:39 <ais523> FLR contains all the context
22:20:43 <elliott> fair enough then
22:20:57 <Sgeo_> I should get back in at some poitn
22:20:59 <Sgeo_> point
22:21:47 <elliott> ais523: heh, I think rule 104 might be the only rule that has ever been called as a CFJ
22:22:02 <ais523> heh
22:22:13 <Sgeo_> o.O what
22:22:41 <NihilistDandy> I like the map puns
22:23:05 <elliott> Sgeo_: speaker for the first game
22:23:05 <itidus21> i live in a place which looks just like MANUBOURNE
22:23:23 <Sgeo_> Oh, the text of the rule was called as a CFJ
22:23:38 <Sgeo_> Thought someone was saying that the rule itself was both a rule and a CFJ at one point
22:24:08 <elliott> @tell comex http://agora.qoid.us/current_flr.html#rule-105 has the (hide) one CFJ line too low, presumably because the first line lists two CFJs
22:24:09 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:24:29 * Sgeo_ is le tired
22:24:48 <elliott> Amended(17) by Proposal 6124 (ehird), 15 March 2009
22:24:57 <elliott> ais523: I've made a /successful proposal/ that /amended a rule/?
22:25:06 <elliott> that isn't the Monster?
22:25:21 <comex> elliott: thanks
22:25:21 <lambdabot> comex: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
22:25:23 <ais523> wow
22:25:27 <comex> lambdabot: @messages
22:25:28 <lambdabot> elliott said 1m 19s ago: http://agora.qoid.us/current_flr.html#rule-105 has the (hide) one CFJ line too low, presumably because the first line lists two CFJs
22:25:42 <comex> isn't lambdabot the #haskell bot?
22:25:48 <elliott> it's in a lot of channels
22:25:50 <elliott> @listchans
22:25:50 <lambdabot> ##freebsd ##logic ##proggit ##villagegreen #agda #arch-haskell #darcs #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs #haskell #haskell-blah #
22:25:50 <lambdabot> haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-in-depth #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell.au #haskell.cz #haskell.de #haskell.dut #haskell.hr #haskell.se #learnanycomputerlanguag
22:25:51 <lambdabot> e #lesswrong #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #teamunix #unicycling #uscs2010 #xmonad #yi weird#
22:25:53 <comex> lambdabot: @help
22:25:53 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
22:25:56 <comex> lambdabot: @list
22:25:56 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
22:26:15 <elliott> ais523: does murphy's site have proposals?
22:26:28 <ais523> I think so
22:26:29 <comex> @djinn a -> a
22:26:29 <lambdabot> f a = a
22:26:30 <ais523> it definitely has assessments
22:26:33 <comex> @djinn a -> b
22:26:34 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
22:26:35 <ais523> not sure if it has the proposals themselves
22:26:37 <ion> Why would one scan Ned I., avian?
22:26:45 <comex> no undefined for you, huh
22:26:49 <elliott> http://agora.qoid.us/rule/1681#diff/610610/610806 hmm...
22:27:03 <comex> @djinn [a] -> Int
22:27:03 <lambdabot> Error: Undefined type []
22:27:05 <ais523> nope, no proposals
22:27:14 <ais523> it links to Wooble's website for them, which isn't working
22:27:16 <Sgeo_> What's weird# ?
22:27:24 <comex> you can just search gmail
22:27:40 <comex> http://pastie.org/private/lht4f5nxfe6lcxwzwuhkvw
22:27:41 <elliott> ais523: nope, just assessments, not proposals
22:27:44 <elliott> it links to wooble's site for proposals
22:27:47 <elliott> oh
22:27:48 <elliott> ha
22:27:50 <elliott> pseudo-snap
22:28:19 <elliott> http://zenith.homelinux.net/assessor/list.php?author=ehird haha, wow, only two of my proposals have ever passed
22:28:19 <comex> (I have had the theory for a while that there is a fundamental disconnect between players that use Gmail and players tha tdon't)
22:28:23 <elliott> /including/ Mad Scientist proposals
22:28:24 <shachaf> I guess augustss forgot about undefined when he was implementing @djinn.
22:28:27 <comex> (such as ais523)
22:28:33 <shachaf> It would've made his life so much easier.
22:29:00 <comex> :p
22:29:01 * elliott wonders wtf Fuck That does
22:29:10 <elliott> http://sprunge.us/TVYC
22:29:37 <comex> @djinn Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
22:29:37 <lambdabot> f a b = a >>= (\ _ -> b)
22:29:44 <comex> :)
22:30:02 <shachaf> Hmm, that's more than I would've expected.
22:30:15 <elliott> ais523: http://sprunge.us/hIAd
22:30:18 <shachaf> @djinn Monad m => m (m a) -> m a
22:30:19 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
22:30:19 <elliott> I have no idea why I proposed this
22:30:32 <shachaf> Some djinn you are.
22:30:33 <comex> @hoogle Monad m => m (m a) -> m a
22:30:33 <lambdabot> Control.Monad join :: Monad m => m (m a) -> m a
22:30:33 <lambdabot> Prelude (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
22:30:33 <lambdabot> Control.Monad (>>) :: Monad m => m a -> m b -> m b
22:30:37 <ais523> elliott: how did that amend a rule?
22:30:42 <shachaf> join x = x >>= id
22:30:43 <elliott> ais523: it didn't
22:30:44 <elliott> nor did it pass
22:30:47 <shachaf> It should've figured that out...
22:30:50 <elliott> comex already linked the one that did: <comex> http://pastie.org/private/lht4f5nxfe6lcxwzwuhkvw
22:31:06 <ais523> what's the point of privating that?
22:31:13 <comex> I habitually private everything
22:31:16 <shachaf> @djinn Monad m => (a -> mb) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
22:31:16 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
22:31:40 <shachaf> Useless bot.
22:31:45 <elliott> "mb"
22:31:45 <elliott> hth
22:31:48 <NihilistDandy> ^
22:31:53 <NihilistDandy> @djinn Monad m => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
22:31:53 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
22:31:54 <shachaf> @djinn Monad m => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
22:31:55 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
22:31:58 <NihilistDandy> :(
22:31:59 <shachaf> Useless bot.
22:33:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:33:13 <ais523> elliott: were you a player in the first week of February?
22:33:23 <ais523> (not that it's really relevant)
22:35:00 <shachaf> Agora is a silly game. Just my 0.27 cents.
22:35:10 <shachaf> @google 0.01 ILS in USD
22:35:21 <lambdabot> http://snindex.spacenews.com/imaginova.spacenews/quote?Symbol=149%3A275136
22:35:30 <shachaf> Useless bot.
22:35:47 <NihilistDandy> 0.2681
22:35:56 <NihilistDandy> Oh, wait
22:36:03 <NihilistDandy> That's the 1 ratio
22:36:19 <NihilistDandy> So more in the 0.0027
22:36:45 -!- tzxn3 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:36:59 <shachaf> Oh, right.
22:37:11 * shachaf = Verizon
22:37:44 <NihilistDandy> Oh, god. They were right! Corporations *are* people!
22:37:51 <NihilistDandy> People with IRC handles!
22:39:04 <ais523> <ais523> I have been publishing a null string as required by the contract every week (cunningly disguised amongst other messages, I'll make it more explicit if people want)
22:39:10 <ais523> looking over past CFJs is pretty fun
22:41:20 <zzo38> In my opinion >>= should be defined in terms of join instead of the other way around
22:43:34 <shachaf> @djinn Monad m => m (a,b) -> ((a,b) -> m (c,d)) -> m (c,d)
22:43:35 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
22:43:37 <shachaf> @djinn Monad m => m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
22:43:38 <lambdabot> f = (>>=)
22:43:42 <shachaf> Useless bot.
22:44:16 <elliott> <ais523> elliott: were you a player in the first week of February?
22:44:19 <elliott> i think so
22:45:26 <ais523> hmm, fun question: if it turns out you can't violate a SHOULD you're unaware of, is it possible to miss the existence of RtR week due to not having read the rules?
22:45:29 <ais523> there's some sort of fun recursion here
22:47:15 <zzo38> Once I told someone that I have proven that mzero >> x = mzero is implied by the monad laws, they didn't believe me because the monad laws don't mention mzero. But I wrote a kind of proof, but it was too informal and had some mistakes, but then some other people said I was still correct in the conclusion, and that it is a free theorem.
22:47:33 <oerjan> @djinn-env
22:47:33 <lambdabot> data () = ()
22:47:33 <lambdabot> data Either a b = Left a | Right b
22:47:33 <lambdabot> data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a
22:47:33 <lambdabot> data Bool = False | True
22:47:33 <lambdabot> data Void
22:47:35 <lambdabot> type Not x = x -> Void
22:47:37 <lambdabot> class Monad m where return :: a -> m a; (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
22:47:39 <lambdabot> class Eq a where (==) :: a -> a -> Bool
22:49:04 -!- Taneb has joined.
22:49:20 <Taneb> Hello!
22:49:21 <zzo38> Rewrite it as: join (x <$ mzero) = mzero and join (return <$> x) = x
22:49:31 <Taneb> I've just realised something sad
22:49:35 <zzo38> And then include Functor laws.
22:50:09 <Taneb> In Brook, it's impossible to create the very thing Brook was created to create
22:50:27 <elliott> :'(
22:51:15 <oerjan> i guess that somehow the Monad definition does not fit into the form necessary for the logic solver to use it efficiently - something like a missing subformula property, perhaps?
22:51:23 <oerjan> *missing the
22:51:58 <shachaf> @djinn-env
22:51:58 <lambdabot> data () = ()
22:51:59 <lambdabot> data Either a b = Left a | Right b
22:51:59 <lambdabot> data Maybe a = Nothing | Just a
22:51:59 <lambdabot> data Bool = False | True
22:51:59 <lambdabot> data Void
22:52:00 <lambdabot> type Not x = x -> Void
22:52:02 <lambdabot> class Monad m where return :: a -> m a; (>>=) :: m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b
22:52:04 <lambdabot> class Eq a where (==) :: a -> a -> Bool
22:52:05 <ais523> Taneb: which is what?
22:52:13 <Taneb> Infinite streams of code
22:52:35 <Taneb> It's possible to make an infinite number of finite streams, however
22:53:00 <oerjan> or cut-elimination theorem, or something like that
22:54:58 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:57:33 <elliott> "nor
22:57:33 <elliott> is e the sort of person who's at all likely to carefully weigh the
22:57:33 <elliott> implications of something before acting impulsively"
22:57:35 <elliott> thanks a lot, ais523 :)
22:58:24 <ais523> elliott: this is the same sort of statement as you saying that I couldn't possibly be Mr. Snuggles as that would mean I'd use GMail
22:59:00 <ais523> note: I actually have code on this laptop for fetching submissions from GMail over IMAP
22:59:26 <elliott> pah, that's your university using gmail
22:59:27 <ais523> because at least two automatic submission processes I've worked on used GMail for the submission process
22:59:29 <ais523> yes
22:59:43 <ais523> which is stupid as they have entirely competent mailserver admins, and their own mailserver
23:00:27 <elliott> wow, I've been failing to effectively play agora for 4 years
23:01:20 <ais523> hmm, looking back over my own Lua code, it's surprising how hard it is to read sometimes due to not using semicolons
23:01:30 <ais523> x3 = m4 - x2 x5 = m4 - m5
23:01:41 <ais523> end end end end
23:01:42 <ais523> end end end end end end end end end
23:02:00 <ais523> and then a comment, then another end
23:02:07 <ais523> it's almost as good as Lisp :)
23:02:19 <elliott> Have you considered using: newlines?
23:02:31 * oerjan is with elliott
23:03:19 <fizzie> "end end end end end end end end end" sounds like a crazy apocalyptic person.
23:03:32 <elliott> <ais523> if they wanted me to use newlines, they'd force me to! [or some equally-nonsensical language trolling]
23:03:41 * elliott SAVES PEOPLE WORK
23:04:15 <ais523> elliott: the code in question would have been much harder to read with newlines added between every command
23:04:25 <olsner> they should add "the end" as a macro for the right number of endings
23:12:28 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
23:12:33 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:13:45 -!- hagb4rd2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:18:14 <shachaf> HEY ELLIOTT
23:18:17 <shachaf> REMEMBER THAT THING?
23:18:24 <elliott> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
23:18:25 <elliott> NOT THE THING
23:19:04 <shachaf> The thing you asked me not to remind you of?
23:19:59 -!- NihilistDandy has quit.
23:20:08 <oerjan> good, good.
23:21:45 <ais523> elliott: heh, something I just saw in a Reddit comment: apparently the reason the GNU tools are so complex and produce so many options is to make it obvious that they aren't copyvios of some commercial UNIX
23:22:00 <ais523> it's plausible, but it's not clear if it's true
23:22:09 <elliott> You have a weird definition of plausible.
23:22:19 <ais523> elliott: I mean that it isn't obviously false
23:22:33 <Sgeo_> How many options does true have?
23:22:38 <ais523> two IIRC
23:22:52 <ais523> yep
23:22:59 <Sgeo_> --help and --version ?
23:23:02 <ais523> yes
23:23:09 <shachaf> It has at least three.
23:23:11 <shachaf> true -- --help
23:23:31 <ais523> shachaf: it ignores any arguments unless it gets exactly "--help" or "--version", IIRC
23:23:31 <Sgeo_> ais523, well, it's not behaving like it recognizes those
23:23:37 <ais523> Sgeo_: /bin/true
23:23:41 <shachaf> ais523: Oh.
23:23:42 <ais523> you need to use GNU true
23:23:51 <ais523> not bash true
23:24:29 <Sgeo_> There is NO WARRANTY
23:24:42 <Sgeo_> Hmm. I think I wish I had a warranty on /bin/true
23:24:47 <shachaf> true is a patentcopyrighttrademark violator.
23:24:57 <Sgeo_> Never know when it will return nothing unsuccessfully.
23:25:18 <Sgeo_> What if the power suddenly goes out? Than /bin/true might not fulfill its contract!
23:25:19 <ais523> Sgeo_: if you've never seen it before, do "/bin/true --version > /dev/full"
23:25:35 <ais523> then check the return code
23:25:39 <ais523> ("echo $?")
23:25:42 <shachaf> @google falso true "axiomatic system"
23:25:44 <lambdabot> http://www.eleves.ens.fr/home/amarilli/falso/
23:25:44 <lambdabot> Title: Falso, by Estatis Inc.
23:25:54 <elliott> shachaf: I just linked to that days ago. :(
23:25:58 * ais523 /bin/true --version > /dev/full 2> /dev/full
23:26:10 <Sgeo_> ais523, is that the shell's returning 1 though?
23:26:12 <ais523> hmm, no separate error for the failure to print the error message
23:26:15 <ais523> Sgeo_: no, it's true
23:26:18 <ais523> returning false
23:26:22 <ais523> because it failed to print the version message
23:26:28 <ais523> because there was no space left on /dev/full
23:26:43 <ais523> a tragic circumstance, too many people used it for testing lack of space errors and now it's full
23:31:08 <ais523> hey, why (in C/C++) does the null directive exist anyway?
23:31:28 <ais523> (I love saying "C/C++" when talking about the preprocessor, as that's pretty much the only context where it's a correct phrase to use)
23:31:58 <ais523> null statements are potentially useful (label anchors, etc.); null declarations don't exist but gcc implements them anyway for no obvious reason; but null directives seem a little pointless, as you can't even generate them with macros
23:32:33 <pikhq> Null directives?
23:32:45 <ais523> pikhq: a # on a line by itself
23:32:50 <pikhq> ...
23:32:50 <ais523> it does nothing and is deleted by the preprocessor
23:32:58 <pikhq> That is astonishingly useless.
23:33:03 <ais523> indeed
23:33:15 <pikhq> Why not at least make it *vaguely* useful...
23:33:19 <pikhq> #!
23:33:34 <pikhq> So you can have compliant interpreted C code with a shebang. :)
23:33:53 <ais523> and also ignore the rest of the line, which null directives don't do
23:33:58 <ais523> they have to be alone on the line (or with a comment)
23:34:04 <ais523> (or multiple comments, I guess)
23:34:26 <pikhq> Well, even if it didn't you could work around it.
23:34:30 <pikhq> #!//bin/run-c
23:35:06 <ais523> haha :)
23:35:21 <ais523> or you could create a symlink to / called *, in /
23:35:49 <ais523> then you wouldn't even have to rely on // being parsed as / in a pathname (at the start of a path, it isn't necessarily)
23:44:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:53:10 -!- kmc has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:56:33 -!- augur has joined.
23:58:57 <zzo38> I tried to follow a "Tibetan Personality Test". It asked me to put animals in a preferred order, give words describing certain things, name people who know me corresponding to five colors, and to write my favorite number and day of week. Before beginning, it asked me to make a wish. I didn't know the answers, so I kept the animals in the order given, used the words themselves to describe themselves, used names of people who had the given colors
23:59:48 <zzo38> It said my wish will come true after I tell my favorite number of people about this test, on the day of the week my favorite one. But, not only does my wish describe something impossible but the number I indicated as my favorite number is not a positive integer.
←2012-03-24 2012-03-25 2012-03-26→ ↑2012 ↑all