←2012-05-06 2012-05-07 2012-05-08→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:02:46 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:10:12 <monqy> 17:09:15 < Delcan> Crawl loves... it's just misunderstood
00:10:12 <monqy> 17:09:20 < Perryman> hate is love.
00:10:12 <monqy> 17:09:25 < Perryman> thats what i tell my girl anyway
00:10:12 <monqy> 17:09:30 < Perryman> did i say that out loud
00:10:12 <monqy> 17:09:33 < monqy> hi
00:10:19 <monqy> ##crawl quality. ##crawlity.
00:11:31 <ais523> monqy: was that hi as punishment?
00:12:11 <monqy> as punishment as it can be without anyone understanding it
00:12:36 <ais523> I mean, us in #esoteric understand that you mean hi as a threat
00:12:39 <ais523> does ##crawl generally know that?
00:12:53 <monqy> I don't think so
00:13:25 <elliott> a threat?
00:13:28 <elliott> what does it threaten?
00:13:32 <elliott> to continue?
00:13:33 <ais523> well, a punishment
00:13:39 <ais523> it's the sort of thing you threaten
00:13:41 <ais523> -much like this-
00:13:49 <elliott> i know i'd feel ashamed if monqy "hi"d me :(
00:14:09 <ais523> -I could keep this up for ages-
00:14:15 <elliott> -It doesn't work if you don't punctuate.-
00:14:25 <ais523> -it doesn't work as well at least-
00:14:31 <ais523> -but punctuating is rare on IRC anyway-
00:14:41 <elliott> im getting bored of brogue im going to play crawl instead
00:15:47 <elliott> after playing a fixed-viewport game for a while crawl's moving viewport makes me dizzy again oops
00:16:51 <elliott> aaa it's awful
00:20:23 <elliott> monqy: help :(
00:20:37 <monqy> maybe triy a different stairs down
00:20:41 <monqy> oh too late
00:20:42 <coppro> elliott: play nh4
00:20:42 <elliott> actually it was the
00:20:49 <elliott> viewport i needed help with
00:20:51 <elliott> coppro: already have
00:21:12 <elliott> it's not different enough to nethack for me to play it more yet
00:22:17 <elliott> coppro: but if ais523 listens to me maybe i will ;)
00:23:40 <elliott> _You sense Yredelemnul urging you to kill the trapped human.
00:23:43 <elliott> yred, that's mean :(
00:24:26 <elliott> maybe that was a bad idea
00:24:59 <monqy> how so?
00:25:09 <monqy> "oh no, a goblin"
00:25:09 <elliott> idk i was expecting yred to
00:25:11 <elliott> i dunno
00:25:13 <elliott> reanimate it
00:25:14 <elliott> or something
00:25:15 <elliott> and kill me
00:25:16 <elliott> i have no idea
00:25:31 <elliott> wait, undead can worship yred?
00:25:38 <monqy> yes
00:25:43 <monqy> yred hates nonliving though
00:25:51 <elliott> so
00:25:56 <elliott> you can worship it but it'll hate you
00:26:00 <monqy> no
00:26:06 <monqy> nonliving is distinct from undead in crawl
00:26:11 <monqy> (they're technical terms)
00:26:22 <elliott> is nonliving like
00:26:22 <elliott> plants
00:26:26 <monqy> no
00:26:28 <monqy> golems and stuff
00:26:43 <monqy> the crawl holinesses are natural, plant, undead, nonliving, holy
00:26:56 <monqy> (holiness is also a crawl term)
00:27:14 <elliott> crawl what are you DOINGe
00:27:25 <elliott> should i worship yred (no)
00:27:38 <monqy> yaey, undead friends. yaey, alley managemtn
00:27:51 <monqy> yaey, drain life?
00:28:20 <elliott> do you want to hear a joke
00:28:30 <monqy> i love jokes
00:28:33 <elliott> orcs
00:28:37 <monqy> ha
00:28:48 <elliott> pls ha some more
00:28:52 <monqy> ah
00:28:54 <monqy> aaah
00:29:14 <elliott> no
00:29:14 <elliott> ha
00:29:15 <elliott> the a comes
00:29:17 <elliott> after the hs
00:29:47 <monqy> wow after playing monqys-crawl crawl levels look so big and empty
00:29:55 <elliott> i want to see monqys-crawl :'(
00:30:07 <monqy> it's not ready for the public eye!!!
00:30:17 <elliott> im not public!!!
00:30:35 <monqy> i was almost going to fix the segfaulting today but then i remembered i had homework
00:30:43 <elliott> segfaulting is part of the monqys-crawl experience!!!
00:30:43 <monqy> "man i sure suck at not having that"
00:31:11 <elliott> monqys-crawl doesn't actually exist you've just put a segfault in some branch of standard crawl code and lied about the rest "my prediction"
00:31:34 <monqy> noo!!!
00:31:51 <monqy> there are lots of segfaults !
00:31:54 <elliott> i have
00:31:54 <elliott> NO
00:31:55 <elliott> reason
00:31:58 <elliott> to believe you!!!!
00:32:09 <elliott> yaey, i can go berserk
00:32:09 <monqy> D:
00:32:17 <monqy> good joke eliot
00:32:20 <elliott> ill go berserk over monqy's LIES
00:32:22 <elliott> :'(
00:32:23 <monqy> D:
00:32:34 <quintopia> elliott: what's the command to find out what my internet interfaces are
00:32:37 <ion> Hmm. Someone should make a roguelike where you have to try to win by avoiding actual segfaults.
00:32:56 <monqy> maybe i'll termcast monqys-crawl once I get some of the segfaultiness ironed out
00:33:17 <elliott> monqy: are you telling me that segfaults wouldn't make a termcast at least 67.4% more amusing
00:33:29 <elliott> im sorry but i just cant condone your heretical views
00:33:30 <quintopia> monqy: what is the betterness of monqys-crawl?
00:33:33 <ion> ±0.1%
00:33:34 <monqy> elliott: segfault likelihood increases quickly as you descend
00:33:44 <elliott> monqy: that's even funnier!!!
00:33:47 <monqy> quintopia: it's not really a serious branch
00:33:48 <elliott> :''(
00:33:58 <elliott> you know what's unserious?
00:33:58 <elliott> segfaults
00:34:03 <monqy> =/
00:34:10 <elliott> im going on crawl strike until i see monqys-crawl "taking a stand for freedom"
00:34:17 <elliott> "with peer pressure"
00:34:25 <monqy> ugh fiiiiiiine
00:34:34 <ion> yay
00:34:36 <monqy> let's see i if i remember how to do this
00:34:42 <elliott> i can tell you if you want
00:34:45 <elliott> its
00:34:46 <elliott> uhhh
00:34:49 <elliott> ais523 what's the termcast oneliner
00:34:53 <monqy> no i have it
00:35:00 <elliott> thanks
00:35:03 <ais523> `pastlog ratry_login
00:35:04 <monqy> i just forget how to type
00:35:06 <elliott> ais523: i don't need to know any more
00:35:11 <elliott> monqy: this happens to me also
00:35:12 <ais523> it'll be hilarious if this works ;)
00:35:16 <ais523> * :)
00:35:35 <HackEgo> No output.
00:35:43 <elliott> ha
00:35:44 <elliott> ha
00:35:45 <ais523> `pastlog ratry_login
00:35:46 <elliott> ha
00:35:47 <elliott> ha
00:35:49 <elliott> ha
00:35:54 <ais523> elliott: it may have just been the HackEgo startup bug
00:35:55 <ion> ha
00:35:56 <elliott> its so funny i cant survive help :(
00:35:56 <elliott> ha
00:35:57 <elliott> ha
00:36:01 <elliott> ha
00:36:01 <ais523> elliott: hi
00:36:01 <elliott> ha
00:36:02 <elliott> im dying
00:36:04 <elliott> ha
00:36:06 <elliott> ha
00:36:08 <elliott> ha
00:36:10 <elliott> im ded
00:36:10 <HackEgo> 2010-08-29.txt:22:22:02: <ais523> script -f >( cat ./ratry_login - | nc -q5 noway.ratry.ru 31337 > /dev/null ) "$@"
00:36:15 <ais523> elliott: ha
00:36:39 * ais523 goes back to feeling smug
00:36:55 <elliott> ha
00:37:10 <ais523> yay, it brought you back from the ded
00:37:20 <elliott> no im still ded
00:37:25 <elliott> im just laughing also
00:38:11 <ion> Hmm. xw on CDO seems to be running a bot of some kind, too.
00:38:18 <ion> And now he died.
00:38:39 <quintopia> elliott: halp
00:38:41 <ion> And now he died again.
00:38:56 <elliott> TESTIN' POTIONS
00:39:00 <elliott> TESTIN' SCROLLS
00:39:16 <elliott> WEARIN' RIN'
00:39:35 <monqy> xw is n7's autorobin fork
00:39:44 <elliott> this thing is better than monqy's bot
00:39:49 <elliott> "big surprise"
00:39:56 <monqy> im surpis
00:40:00 <elliott> ye die
00:40:02 <monqy> ok uh
00:40:03 <elliott> oh
00:40:04 <elliott> felid
00:40:08 <monqy> i got termcaste runeing
00:40:21 <monqy> (i'm squarelos)
00:40:23 <elliott> good ps1
00:40:29 <ion> monqy: On what server?
00:40:32 <elliott> termcast.org
00:40:34 <elliott> ais523: quick watche!!!
00:41:20 <ais523> what a shell :)
00:41:34 <ais523> well, shell prompt
00:42:07 <monqy> so uh
00:42:09 <monqy> what should i play
00:42:15 <elliott> feck of chei
00:42:16 <elliott> or
00:42:17 <elliott> just
00:42:17 <elliott> anything
00:42:18 <ais523> SeAM
00:42:21 <elliott> (not feck of chei)
00:42:23 <ais523> * SEAM
00:42:38 <monqy> i don't know if my modifications touched ranged combat, so it might megasuck
00:42:39 <elliott> monqy: play something that won't die instantly or i guess nothing will since everything got nerfed
00:42:41 <monqy> uhh
00:42:45 <elliott> just play what you've been playing or w/e
00:42:52 <ais523> let's pick a combo that's bad but not horrendously bad
00:42:53 <monqy> hard choices
00:42:57 <ais523> unless they removed AM altogether
00:43:04 <monqy> AM got removed and then unremoved
00:43:08 <ion> SpFi
00:43:13 <ais523> ion: haha
00:43:24 <ais523> that's not so much bad as completely missing the point :)
00:43:28 <elliott> monqy: just play (a) whatever you played when testing or (b) muck or something
00:43:44 <monqy> but i've only been playing op things
00:43:46 <ais523> MfFE
00:43:55 <elliott> monqy: that's fine!!!
00:43:57 <elliott> it'll mean we
00:44:02 <ion> DEIE
00:44:03 <elliott> ~see more of the monqys-crawl experience~
00:44:17 <monqy> ok i'll cycle through everything you suggest that isn't just "whatever you tried"
00:44:24 <elliott> i suggest:
00:44:26 <elliott> whatever you tried
00:44:26 <ais523> what about just viable random?
00:44:29 <monqy> so first, a feck that takes chei first chance it gets
00:44:35 <elliott> ok fine
00:44:50 <elliott> at least xom's teleportation isn't very scary when the maps are this small
00:44:53 <elliott> erm
00:44:55 <elliott> monqy: TERM=xterm
00:44:56 <elliott> the
00:44:58 <elliott> dark grey is
00:44:59 <ais523> hmm, the felid is a Unicode character that isn't in dejavu sans mono
00:44:59 <elliott> black again
00:45:00 <monqy> oh no is it not working
00:45:07 <elliott> it works apart from dark grey that turns out black because
00:45:08 <elliott> urxvt
00:45:08 <ais523> gnome-terminal can render it fine
00:45:12 <elliott> xterm can't
00:45:23 <monqy> ais523: it's not the normal fe glyph
00:45:24 <elliott> ais523: no, it's a square
00:45:29 <elliott> monqy plays as a flashing rainbow square
00:45:30 <ion> elliott: The politically correct term is African-American.
00:45:34 <ais523> oh, it's /meant/ to look like that
00:45:37 <elliott> monqy: pls TERM=xterm? :(
00:45:40 <elliott> ion: shut up
00:45:50 <ais523> elliott: what about looking at it through screen?
00:46:04 <ais523> what's with the messages, too?
00:46:09 <elliott> ais523: I know for a fact it works if you set TERM=xterm, so why bother?
00:46:14 <elliott> rip, eliot is a jerk
00:46:21 <monqy> now what
00:46:30 <elliott> octopode abyssal knight of chei
00:46:31 <ion> MDFi
00:46:32 <monqy> oh right it was uh seam wasn't it
00:46:36 <ais523> yes
00:46:48 <ais523> trying to remember where I remember that combo from, it might have been a nemelex choice
00:47:09 <elliott> "what wepon" - monqy
00:47:15 <monqy> yeah
00:47:17 <monqy> what weapon, i mean
00:47:21 <monqy> i dunno if it was neme choice
00:47:26 <ion> weapone
00:47:26 <ais523> whatever you have the best apt for, I guess
00:47:30 <monqy> javs then
00:47:39 <elliott> "skilles"
00:48:01 <elliott> wow
00:48:02 <monqy> oh no i oopsed
00:48:04 <elliott> monqys crawl has
00:48:07 <elliott> swarm problems
00:48:11 <elliott> just
00:48:12 <ais523> low hitpoint warning already?
00:48:13 <elliott> go with something op already
00:48:19 <elliott> so you don't keep dying
00:48:23 <monqy> fiiiiine
00:48:23 <ais523> you're still in sight of all three of the entry squares :)
00:48:34 <monqy> so uh
00:48:36 <monqy> what's op
00:48:38 <elliott> whatever
00:48:38 <elliott> you
00:48:40 <elliott> tested with
00:48:41 <monqy> D:
00:48:42 <elliott> are you ASHAMED
00:48:46 <monqy> i tested with a LOT OF THINGS
00:48:53 <monqy> and yes im totally ashamed because of how op it is
00:48:59 <elliott> its fine
00:49:01 <elliott> we wont judge you
00:49:02 <elliott> its just for testing
00:49:03 <monqy> :'(
00:49:16 <elliott> we'll accept this convenient fiction and ignore the fact that you obviously always play that combo when offline
00:49:33 <elliott> does monqys-crawl have the randomised languages and colours and turncount-type-changing built in
00:49:41 <monqy> no that's my .crawlrc
00:50:05 <elliott> wow did you
00:50:07 <elliott> start with full piety
00:50:19 <ais523> elliott: he dropped to five, then back to six the next turn
00:50:19 <ion> Someone shoulde make a Britishe localisation for Crawle.
00:50:28 <ais523> so I guess it has some sort of scaling, even more extreme than Sprint's
00:50:36 <elliott> this looks more fun than crawl already
00:50:37 <ais523> ion: Crawl is in British English already, actually
00:50:39 <ais523> well, Australian English
00:50:45 <ais523> or was it New Zealandish?
00:50:46 <ion> ais523: But not Britishe Englishe
00:50:47 <elliott> monqy: you realise you're going to die so hard if you remove upstairs
00:50:51 <ais523> but much closer to British than American
00:51:07 <monqy> elliott: no
00:51:10 <ais523> monqycrawl reminds me of Sprint a bit
00:51:11 <ion> Wait. Why do you have so much ********?
00:51:14 <monqy> elliott: i forgot i had a conduct where i didnt take upstairs
00:51:20 <ais523> ion: it's obviously being scaled
00:51:21 <elliott> monqy: tell us about why you started with lots of piety :'(
00:51:23 <monqy> ais523: it's kind of like zigsprint
00:51:33 <elliott> monqy: also that's a bad conduct sheeshe!!!
00:51:36 <monqy> elliott: nope, but i have sprint piety gainsenabled
00:51:38 <elliott> "upstairs are good"
00:51:40 <ais523> monqy: actually, that seems like a good game mode
00:51:53 <monqy> what does?
00:51:54 <elliott> ais523: what does?
00:51:57 <ais523> start the player in a zig, put Sprint-like exp gains
00:51:58 <elliott> monqy: "highe five"
00:52:10 <ais523> increase the amount of loot somewhat
00:52:15 <monqy> ais523: zig sprint is a thing, it's not really a zig but
00:52:28 <ais523> oh, they made a Sprint map that's like a zig?
00:52:34 <monqy> yeah
00:52:39 <monqy> sprint v, by st_
00:52:46 <ais523> hmm, perhaps I'll play that, I prefer Sprint to regular Crawl quite a bit
00:52:52 <ais523> on CDO?
00:52:57 <elliott> monqy: hmm, are you sure just making maps the full size of the viewport was too small??
00:53:01 <elliott> s/\?\?/?/
00:53:12 <elliott> it looks like they're too thin and too tall
00:53:13 <elliott> so
00:53:21 <monqy> elliott: these are square
00:53:29 <monqy> elliott: it's the shape of your font that makes it seem like that
00:53:34 <elliott> :(
00:53:51 <elliott> i think the piety scaling might be a bit extreme
00:54:06 <monqy> getting rid of corpses means getting rid of corpse sacrifices
00:54:13 <elliott> fair enough
00:54:21 <monqy> i'll see if it's extreme after then
00:54:23 <elliott> i think all the monsters are
00:54:27 <monqy> and i turned on the sprint stuff just for fun
00:54:27 <elliott> a bit too nerfed yeah
00:54:28 <elliott> otoh
00:54:34 <elliott> the kind of packs you get when going downstairs
00:54:34 <monqy> some of them are megabuff
00:54:39 <monqy> they just don't show up yet
00:54:41 <elliott> will probably annihilate a low-level player with th enerfing
00:54:42 <monqy> also
00:54:44 <elliott> *the nerfing
00:54:44 <elliott> reversed
00:54:49 <elliott> so
00:54:52 <elliott> "idke"
00:54:53 <monqy> it doesn't help that I have 10ac. ac is op in monqys-crawl
00:55:15 <elliott> great segfault
00:55:22 <elliott> "glah"
00:55:52 <elliott> this actually looks way better than crawl
00:56:19 <elliott> ahahaha
00:56:23 <monqy> i told you
00:56:23 <ion> :-)
00:56:28 <elliott> they're great!!
00:57:27 <elliott> monqy: you went upstairs!!!
00:57:35 <monqy> i forgot about hte conduct
00:57:39 <monqy> i also forgot about the no-resting conduct
00:57:42 <elliott> "upstairs are great see"
00:57:47 <monqy> it's just wired into me from so much crawl play
00:57:49 <monqy> no i hate it
00:57:52 <elliott> monqy: no-resting is a bit unreasonable if you get poisoned or slow or whatever
00:57:58 <monqy> trogs hand
00:58:02 <elliott> you're only removing HP regeneration, right?
00:58:06 <monqy> i have infinite piety
00:58:13 <elliott> magic/pois/etc. regeneration seem reasonable to keep
01:00:36 <elliott> monqy: yuore skills are default
01:00:37 <elliott> i think
01:00:40 <monqy> no
01:00:43 <elliott> oh
01:00:46 <elliott> wow how are they
01:00:47 <elliott> that high already
01:00:53 <monqy> sprint xp gains
01:01:04 <monqy> oops i forgot to go upstairs
01:01:06 <elliott> whoops it reset you
01:01:09 <monqy> yeah
01:01:15 <monqy> i'll just dive
01:01:35 <elliott> funne
01:01:43 <elliott> you can't really
01:01:48 <elliott> dive in this version
01:02:18 <elliott> maybe you should
01:02:20 <elliott> do something about that hp
01:02:42 <monqy> rip
01:02:54 <monqy> i get careless when its too easy and then there's a huge difficulty spike
01:02:57 <monqy> monqys-crawl is like that
01:03:06 <ion> crawl is like that
01:03:08 <monqy> now what to play!!
01:03:18 <elliott> monqy: octopode chaos knight of chei
01:03:18 <monqy> dsbe again?
01:03:20 <elliott> like i said before
01:03:22 <monqy> ok
01:03:30 <elliott> recipe for humour: <bad race> chaos knight of chei
01:03:39 <monqy> op can't armoure so it might be a bit "difficult"
01:03:51 <elliott> its ok armour is monqys-crawl's version of mephitic cloud
01:04:00 <elliott> "dont use it" - monqys-crawl's version of monqy
01:05:33 <elliott> ais523: does this look fun to you i cant tell if im just hallucinating
01:05:35 <elliott> monqy: good glass
01:05:46 <ais523> elliott: I'm playing zigsprint instead
01:06:13 <elliott> ais523: bah, how can i choose between you playing crawl and monqy playing monqys-crawl?
01:06:53 <elliott> monqy: you forgot to remove the monster colour-coding
01:07:06 <monqy> it's low on the priority list
01:07:54 <elliott> monqy: see that's what i meant by
01:07:57 <monqy> opck "decidedly bad"
01:07:58 <elliott> dying when going downstairs post-un-nerfing
01:08:05 <elliott> (the no armour simulates the un-nerfing)
01:08:24 <elliott> monqy: not yes
01:08:25 <elliott> "aye"
01:08:43 <elliott> monqy: try "ye"
01:08:59 <elliott> monqy: do a same letter combo
01:08:59 <elliott> i.e.
01:09:01 <elliott> aa or pp or whatever
01:09:08 <elliott> "excitinge variation"
01:09:39 <ion> monqy: *
01:09:47 <ion> Err, i mean #
01:09:53 <elliott> monqy: wait it
01:09:55 <elliott> actually asks for combination?
01:09:56 <elliott> oh
01:09:56 <monqy> huae?
01:09:57 <elliott> because random
01:10:01 <elliott> huae is
01:10:03 <elliott> good pronouncing
01:10:04 <elliott> so yes
01:10:21 <elliott> i think it's pronounced like the first word of Beowulf
01:10:46 <ion> It’s the name of a Chinese network hardware manufacturer.
01:10:48 <elliott> whoa
01:10:50 <elliott> monqy: what happened
01:10:56 <monqy> deid to ooze
01:11:17 <elliott> is ddbe
01:11:17 <elliott> good
01:11:20 <monqy> yes
01:11:22 <elliott> it sounds like it accidentally picked you an ok combination
01:11:59 <ion> Oh, i had totally forgotten DDs sense surroundinges.
01:12:44 <elliott> theyre deep
01:12:53 <ais523> "the two-headed ogre shouts in stereo!"
01:12:59 <elliott> monqy: im dibs on setting up the first monqys-crawl server
01:13:06 <elliott> the dibs are mine
01:13:13 <monqy> ok
01:13:21 <ion> p eliot is a jerk's ghost
01:13:34 -!- elliott has changed nick to jerks_ghost.
01:13:42 -!- jerks_ghost has changed nick to jerks-ghost.
01:13:56 <jerks-ghost> monqy: will you implement monsters following you downstairs please
01:13:58 <jerks-ghost> thanxke
01:14:05 <monqy> ok
01:14:31 <monqy> "forgot to updsatatairs"
01:14:43 <jerks-ghost> monqy: thank you you're good person :')
01:14:59 <jerks-ghost> does that also mean you'll remove things teleporting downstairs when they should by rights take multiple turns to get down just because they're right next to you
01:15:03 <jerks-ghost> (correct answer is yese)
01:15:44 <jerks-ghost> good
01:15:54 <jerks-ghost> are duvessa and dowan nerfed too
01:16:05 <monqy> everyone got the same changes applid
01:16:11 <jerks-ghost> yes but you said
01:16:16 <jerks-ghost> some things are bufffffffed
01:16:23 <jerks-ghost> ais523: btw you can reply to my messages with : hope this helps
01:16:31 <ais523> jerks-ghost: I knew
01:16:38 <ais523> just didn't feel like replying earlier
01:16:59 <jerks-ghost> :'(
01:17:02 <ais523> bleh, didn't quite last long enough
01:17:08 <ais523> but it turned out not to matter
01:17:22 <jerks-ghost> Full Pois Slow Exh -cTele
01:17:24 <jerks-ghost> good combination
01:17:30 <jerks-ghost> if only it was Starving too
01:17:39 <jerks-ghost> monqy: at least the monsters shield you from the centaur
01:17:48 <jerks-ghost> "gah" -- monqys-crawl
01:19:26 -!- lexande has left ("Leaving").
01:19:38 <jerks-ghost> monqy: what button did you press by oops
01:19:39 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
01:19:42 <monqy> ac
01:19:44 <monqy> instead of ab
01:19:46 <jerks-ghost> oopse
01:20:01 <jerks-ghost> monqy: did you asnwer my regen question i forget
01:20:02 <jerks-ghost> *answer
01:20:05 <jerks-ghost> ais523: you're missing out on monqys-crawl!!!
01:20:06 <monqy> which
01:20:38 <jerks-ghost> monqy: you're removing hp gen; i'm assuming you'll leave magic/pois/slow/exh/etc. regen?
01:20:42 <monqy> oh
01:20:59 <monqy> yeah, except for magic
01:21:12 <monqy> hp/magic regen will be handled in similar ways
01:21:20 <jerks-ghost> magic regen seems like
01:21:22 <jerks-ghost> more of a pain
01:21:25 <jerks-ghost> i forget, how are you handling hp regen
01:21:33 <monqy> undecided
01:21:37 <jerks-ghost> you could make food regen hp for everyone but "woops no corpsen"
01:21:55 <jerks-ghost> (maybe leave corpsen and just make them regen hp instead of the hunger mechanic???)
01:22:54 <monqy> eating is bad tho
01:23:05 <monqy> would rather just atuomatically just regain hp from kile
01:23:24 <jerks-ghost> that doesn't help if you need hp regenerating later on after kille
01:23:37 <jerks-ghost> hmm
01:23:40 <monqy> so it doesn't!
01:23:43 <jerks-ghost> you could do hp on kill + remove max hp
01:23:44 <monqy> dd of makh sure doesn't mind
01:23:56 <jerks-ghost> so that killing increases max hp instead of hp if you're at max
01:23:59 <jerks-ghost> well
01:24:01 <jerks-ghost> max hp and hp rather
01:24:05 <jerks-ghost> (or maybe just max hp???)
01:24:24 <jerks-ghost> dunno if that would have any downsides or whatever "i d k"??? it's "just an idea"
01:24:28 <jerks-ghost> nice
01:30:18 <jerks-ghost> monqy: what happpended
01:30:20 <monqy> in monqys-crawl, levels take a long time to generate because of how small they are
01:30:49 <monqy> could be stuck vetoing everyyyyyyything
01:30:53 <jerks-ghost> oh is it
01:30:56 <jerks-ghost> literally hung
01:30:56 <jerks-ghost> ok
01:31:05 <monqy> or it may have actually hung itself rip
01:31:13 <jerks-ghost> "attach gdb to it"
01:31:16 <monqy> i'll put it out of its misery and try again
01:31:25 <jerks-ghost> or that
01:31:33 <jerks-ghost> monqy: what did you thinke about
01:31:36 <jerks-ghost> above ideae ^
01:31:41 <monqy> whihc
01:31:54 <jerks-ghost> 02:23 <jerks-ghost> you could do hp on kill + remove max hp
01:31:54 <jerks-ghost> 02:23 <monqy> dd of makh sure doesn't mind
01:31:54 <jerks-ghost> 02:24 <jerks-ghost> so that killing increases max hp instead of hp if you're at max
01:31:56 <jerks-ghost> 02:24 <jerks-ghost> well
01:31:58 <jerks-ghost> 02:24 <jerks-ghost> max hp and hp rather
01:32:00 <jerks-ghost> 02:24 <jerks-ghost> (or maybe just max hp???)
01:32:02 <jerks-ghost> 02:24 <jerks-ghost> dunno if that would have any downsides or whatever "i d k"??? it's "just an idea"
01:32:27 <monqy> oh
01:32:44 <monqy> dunno how that would work out
01:32:49 <ais523> well, that explains why people hate torment, at least
01:32:59 <monqy> mummy level?
01:33:03 <ais523> yes
01:33:13 <jerks-ghost> ais523: what happend
01:33:20 <ais523> tormented repeatedly and then poked to death
01:33:25 <ais523> I couldn't out-regen them
01:33:34 <ais523> and they also killed the berserking trolls really quickly
01:35:20 <jerks-ghost> monqy: well the idea would be: remove increasing max hp on level up
01:35:42 -!- quintopia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:35:45 <monqy> oh nuts slime critter
01:36:49 <jerks-ghost> are they
01:36:51 <jerks-ghost> hard in monqys-crawl
01:36:55 <monqy> they merge and
01:36:56 <jerks-ghost> i havent seen
01:37:00 <jerks-ghost> anything hard in monqys-crawl yet!!!
01:37:03 <jerks-ghost> monqy: i know what slime creatures do
01:37:08 <monqy> that one got to enourmouse, ie 88dam
01:37:15 <monqy> with maxdam that's uh
01:37:17 <monqy> 88dam
01:37:22 <monqy> but then i subtract ac so
01:37:24 <monqy> less than that but
01:37:27 <monqy> "you get the idea"
01:37:33 <ais523> jerks-ghost: they're designed to punish fighting in corridors
01:37:46 <ais523> and interpret everywhere as a corridor in a level as confined as a monqys-crawl level
01:38:04 <jerks-ghost> monqys-crawl must be gr8 for characters that are claustrophobic
01:39:52 <jerks-ghost> monqy: yaktaur captain sounds like fune
01:40:12 <jerks-ghost> yake
01:40:32 <jerks-ghost> monqy: do the changes you made
01:40:34 <jerks-ghost> affect the branches
01:40:42 <monqy> they affect everything
01:40:49 <monqy> probably make branch endings crash
01:40:58 <jerks-ghost> monqy: go to the temple :D
01:42:01 <jerks-ghost> monqy: :'(
01:42:43 <monqy> ok fine i'll go to the termplel
01:42:53 <jerks-ghost> thank
01:43:11 <jerks-ghost> gr8
01:43:11 <monqy> hapy?
01:43:13 <jerks-ghost> hapy
01:43:18 <jerks-ghost> now go to lair
01:43:19 <jerks-ghost> oops
01:43:20 <monqy> you kiled
01:43:21 <monqy> it
01:43:22 <monqy> forever
01:43:23 <jerks-ghost> oops
01:43:24 <monqy> its GONE
01:43:32 <jerks-ghost> maybe try again???
01:43:33 <jerks-ghost> maybe ill
01:43:33 <jerks-ghost> revive
01:43:34 <monqy> i'll continue playing my testing gam
01:43:46 <jerks-ghost> i br b for one second
01:44:21 <jerks-ghost> im bake
01:44:35 <jerks-ghost> monqy: did i miss anything
01:44:52 <monqy> segfau
01:44:57 <jerks-ghost> oopse
01:45:18 <monqy> oh right in this game I have ignite blood and a vampiric battleaxe
01:46:15 <jerks-ghost> do mutations come more often since
01:46:17 <jerks-ghost> sprint
01:46:25 <monqy> yeah
01:46:26 <monqy> well
01:46:30 <monqy> you gain levels more often
01:46:31 <monqy> so
01:46:33 <jerks-ghost> monqys-crawl sounds like
01:46:36 <jerks-ghost> jog
01:46:36 <jerks-ghost> or
01:46:37 <jerks-ghost> brisk walk
01:46:42 <jerks-ghost> (compared to crawl, sprint)
01:46:57 <monqy> i told you it's not presentable yet :|
01:47:06 <jerks-ghost> i didnt say that was a bad thing!!!
01:47:08 <jerks-ghost> it looks great fun
01:47:20 <jerks-ghost> it'd crash when going into zot too right
01:47:33 <monqy> zot:5 for sure
01:48:46 <jerks-ghost> monqy: have you not been using wizmode for testing?
01:48:54 <monqy> wizmode is for cheaters
01:49:00 <jerks-ghost> oopse
01:50:37 <jerks-ghost> hi urug
01:50:42 <jerks-ghost> hi haurice
01:50:48 <jerks-ghost> hi joseph
01:53:05 <monqy> wow good level
01:53:50 <jerks-ghost> wow
01:53:51 <jerks-ghost> that's
01:53:57 <monqy> did you see the action
01:53:59 <jerks-ghost> no
01:54:00 <jerks-ghost> what happened
01:54:03 <jerks-ghost> was it
01:54:05 <jerks-ghost> ltos of monsters
01:54:14 <monqy> every square had a monster
01:54:24 <jerks-ghost> nioce
01:54:28 <jerks-ghost> maybe you should make there only be one downstair wit
01:54:29 <jerks-ghost> *with
01:54:31 <jerks-ghost> the kind of levels you generate
01:54:33 <monqy> i spawned next to a giant spore, which killed everything except me (barely), a hill giant(which it confused) and a centaur (which was outside the blast radious)
01:54:42 <monqy> jerks-ghost: that's on the todo list
01:55:17 <jerks-ghost> oops you died
01:55:21 <monqy> oops
01:55:32 <jerks-ghost> lots of dsbe and trbe eh
01:55:38 <monqy> yeah
01:55:41 <monqy> "testing"
01:55:42 <jerks-ghost> you're revealing your TRUE PREFERENCES!!!
01:55:43 <jerks-ghost> *PREFERENCES
01:55:46 <monqy> :(
01:55:47 <monqy> i should get back to my
01:55:49 <monqy> homework
01:55:57 <jerks-ghost> you are shamed!!!
01:57:03 <jerks-ghost> monqy: im jerks-ghost forever now btw
01:57:22 <monqy> did you die
01:57:40 <jerks-ghost> yes, rip, im ded
01:57:46 <jerks-ghost> monqy: i want to play monqys-crawl :(
01:58:04 <jerks-ghost> haven't you ever heard of "commit early commit often"!!!!!!!!
01:58:08 <monqy> D:
01:58:09 <monqy> should i commit what i have, segfaults and all
01:58:56 <jerks-ghost> yes
01:59:04 <jerks-ghost> is it all going to be in one big commit
01:59:12 <jerks-ghost> the git user inside me is sobbing
01:59:56 <monqy> :(
02:00:09 <monqy> normally i try to commit early and often!! monqys-crawl is just an exception
02:00:25 <monqy> wherein i just wanted to play around
02:00:40 <jerks-ghost> you could do what i do
02:00:50 <jerks-ghost> do a bunch of changes and then use git commit -p
02:00:51 <jerks-ghost> except
02:00:55 <jerks-ghost> sometimes you have to stash half-way through
02:00:59 <jerks-ghost> and reverse some commits and uh
02:01:01 <jerks-ghost> it can get kinda messy
02:01:14 <jerks-ghost> once i had a commit session that lasted a few hours on mchost
02:01:23 <monqy> aahhhh
02:01:25 <monqy> so how do i do this
02:01:33 <jerks-ghost> it's uhh i
02:01:36 <jerks-ghost> really wouldn't recommend it
02:01:40 <monqy> oh
02:01:40 <jerks-ghost> but
02:01:41 <jerks-ghost> git commit -p
02:01:43 <jerks-ghost> presents you all the hunks
02:01:45 <monqy> just one big commit for now?
02:01:46 <jerks-ghost> and lets you y/n them
02:01:48 <jerks-ghost> and then
02:01:50 <jerks-ghost> just commits those
02:01:54 <monqy> oh
02:01:58 <jerks-ghost> that's OK; it's when you have more complex requirements that it gets
02:01:58 <jerks-ghost> not ok
02:02:03 <jerks-ghost> like if you have changes that both touched the same place
02:02:05 <jerks-ghost> but you want them in separate commits
02:02:13 <jerks-ghost> then it's stash and restash and apply and modify and uugh time
02:03:03 <jerks-ghost> but
02:03:05 <jerks-ghost> git commit -p is ok
02:04:31 <jerks-ghost> monqy: nice self-self-portrait
02:04:45 <jerks-ghost> i think i forgot a few selfs :(
02:04:58 <monqy> dind't you see it already before? did i accidentally make another
02:05:06 <jerks-ghost> https://gitorious.org/~monqy
02:05:26 <kmc> i use git add -p
02:05:37 <jerks-ghost> kmc: but then you have to git commit!!!
02:05:41 <kmc> yep
02:05:51 <kmc> life's a bitch
02:07:04 <jerks-ghost> monqy: alternatively: just do it all in one big commit if you would instead give up
02:07:45 <jerks-ghost> (shouldn't you be doing it in a branch though) oh wait there's no commits
02:07:53 <jerks-ghost> (don't do it in another branch its boreing)
02:08:10 <monqy> ok i made the comites
02:08:18 <jerks-ghost> hapy
02:08:20 <monqy> ???
02:08:27 <monqy> doing what in a branch
02:08:34 <jerks-ghost> monqys-crawl
02:08:47 <monqy> oh boring
02:08:53 <jerks-ghost> "technically" git "accepted wisdom" would have it in a branch if you had any pretenses about merging it back into crawl itself
02:09:11 <jerks-ghost> monqy: ok now do the push :'(
02:09:13 <monqy> i don't think they'd accept my changes
02:09:27 <jerks-ghost> also uhhhh does it put stuff in my home directory or whatever
02:09:34 <monqy> i dont think so
02:09:35 <monqy> i don't know how to push!!!
02:09:45 <monqy> im learn
02:10:35 <jerks-ghost> monqy: git push
02:10:40 <jerks-ghost> "that was hard"
02:10:42 <monqy> thanks
02:11:40 <ion> TWSS
02:11:50 <monqy> what
02:11:59 <monqy> come on you can do better than that, ion
02:12:03 <ion> TWSS
02:12:07 <monqy> coycdbtti
02:12:11 <jerks-ghost> ion: stop it already
02:12:17 <ion> TWSS
02:12:32 <monqy> "hi" - she
02:12:48 <ion> “that” –she
02:12:56 <jerks-ghost> plonk
02:17:05 <monqy> ok i
02:17:07 <monqy> think i psuhed
02:17:13 <monqy> "one waty to foidn out"
02:17:25 <monqy> yeah there it goes
02:17:44 <monqy> oh no i just remembered i forgot to make the code look presentable too
02:17:46 <jerks-ghost> help i don't see them
02:17:52 <monqy> refersh
02:17:58 <jerks-ghost> http://gitorious.org/~monqy/crawl/monqys-crawl
02:17:59 <jerks-ghost> elp
02:18:01 <jerks-ghost> *h
02:18:10 <jerks-ghost> oh its on your user page
02:18:23 <jerks-ghost> monqy: your commit messages are lowercase :'(
02:18:34 <monqy> was i suposed to upercase them
02:18:37 <monqy> did i do soemthing wrong
02:18:38 <monqy> heLP
02:18:57 <jerks-ghost> the crawle repo uses "Blah blah blah blah." (but "Blah blah blah blah" is the git standard (but crawl adds .s too))
02:19:00 <jerks-ghost> its ok ill just judge you
02:19:08 <jerks-ghost> also wouldn't it have been simpler to just
02:19:10 <jerks-ghost> override crawl_state.game_is_sprint
02:19:10 <monqy> i never should have comited
02:19:12 <jerks-ghost> im just
02:19:13 <jerks-ghost> asking
02:19:13 <jerks-ghost> im not
02:19:15 <monqy> that doesnt work
02:19:22 <monqy> it was my first try
02:19:22 <jerks-ghost> im not complaining!! im just judging
02:19:25 <jerks-ghost> monqy: huh why not
02:19:27 <monqy> but
02:19:30 <jerks-ghost> just
02:19:32 <jerks-ghost> out of ucriosirty
02:19:32 <monqy> it tries to load sprint maps
02:19:33 <monqy> but
02:19:41 <jerks-ghost> oh
02:19:49 <monqy> it doesnt have the sprint map thingy set so
02:19:51 <monqy> it doesnt work
02:19:55 <jerks-ghost> rip
02:20:10 <jerks-ghost> defender->heal(1 + random2avg(7, 2), true); // heh heh
02:20:10 <jerks-ghost> 2159 defender->heal(1 + 7, true); // heh heh
02:20:11 <jerks-ghost> heh heh
02:20:18 <jerks-ghost> ("1 + 7" goode)
02:20:21 <ion> Transmogrify the tribbles (title without a dot in the end)
02:20:23 <ion> (empty line)
02:20:31 <monqy> i expect the optomizer to catch that
02:20:40 <jerks-ghost> const int damage = 5 + random2(10);
02:20:40 <jerks-ghost> 1950 const int damage = 5 + (10);
02:20:40 <ion> An optional longer explanation for the commit, potentially multiple lines/paragraphs.
02:20:42 <jerks-ghost> goode
02:20:43 <monqy> i think that's where distortion heals blink frogs
02:20:49 <jerks-ghost> its the parens this time
02:20:50 <jerks-ghost> not the number
02:20:56 <jerks-ghost> beam.damage.num += 2;
02:20:56 <jerks-ghost> 1848 beam.damage.num *= 2;
02:20:59 <jerks-ghost> thats not fair!
02:21:16 <monqy> what did i do there i forget
02:21:21 <monqy> im sure i had a good reason
02:21:21 <jerks-ghost> i have no idae
02:21:23 <jerks-ghost> *idea
02:21:29 <jerks-ghost> ok im going to
02:21:31 <jerks-ghost> compile monqys-crawl
02:21:38 <monqy> "hav fun"
02:22:12 <jerks-ghost> if i get it working maybe i'll remove identification or something "getting my toes wet in the water that is the crawl codebase"
02:22:21 <monqy> oh right i remember why i did that thing
02:22:41 <jerks-ghost> have you considered just
02:22:44 <jerks-ghost> reverting that commit
02:22:48 <monqy> in crawl when you lrd certain monsters it either instakills them or adds 2 damage
02:23:05 <monqy> i got rid of the instakill and changed add 2 to multipl;y by 2
02:23:09 <monqy> i think what i did was fair!!
02:23:17 <jerks-ghost> i dont mean
02:23:18 <jerks-ghost> that part
02:23:19 <jerks-ghost> i mean al lthe
02:23:25 <jerks-ghost> unrandomisde parts that made every monster either terrible or too good
02:23:43 <monqy> :(
02:23:49 <jerks-ghost> (maybe you should have split the lrd part into another commit!!!)
02:23:58 <monqy> no
02:24:08 <jerks-ghost> :'( -- the lrd part
02:24:11 <jerks-ghost> "not good enough" -- the lrd part
02:24:31 <jerks-ghost> wow its slow to downloade
02:26:09 <jerks-ghost> ok it
02:26:10 <jerks-ghost> s
02:26:11 <jerks-ghost> downloaded
02:26:27 <jerks-ghost> monqy: how do i build crawl :(
02:26:30 <monqy> make
02:26:35 <jerks-ghost> does -j3 work
02:26:39 <monqy> duno
02:26:45 <jerks-ghost> ais523: does -j3 work
02:26:54 <ais523> probably not
02:27:06 <monqy> im not going to remove unrandomisation but i'll probably twaeak it and also other monster-related things
02:27:08 <jerks-ghost> ls: /Developer/SDKs: No such file or directory
02:27:08 <jerks-ghost> Makefile:412: *** You do not seem to have any Mac OS X SDKs installed! This build is doomed to fail. Stop.
02:27:11 <jerks-ghost> this makefile is out of date!!!
02:27:16 <jerks-ghost> monqy: what do you have against random :'(
02:27:27 <jerks-ghost> its kind of boring if fights are predetermined!
02:27:28 <monqy> random in crawl is pretty annoying
02:27:38 <jerks-ghost> doesn't have to be in monqys-crawl!!
02:28:20 <jerks-ghost> monqy: will you accept patches to make it work with xcode 4.something
02:28:31 <monqy> sure
02:29:07 <jerks-ghost> ugh its
02:29:08 <jerks-ghost> really ingrained
02:29:09 <monqy> but really those should be going to the normal crawl gus
02:29:36 <jerks-ghost> i dont want to associate with them!!!
02:29:51 <monqy> fiine
02:30:04 <jerks-ghost> wow the path is
02:30:07 <jerks-ghost> /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs
02:31:59 <jerks-ghost> Makefile:447: *** The Mac OS X /Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/MacOSX.platform/Developer/SDKs: SDK seems missing. Stop.
02:32:01 <jerks-ghost> this is
02:32:02 <jerks-ghost> a pain
02:32:13 <monqy> yaey, crawl
02:33:16 <jerks-ghost> argh this is
02:33:17 <jerks-ghost> awful
02:33:25 <jerks-ghost> im juts going to
02:33:26 <jerks-ghost> hack it up
02:34:51 <jerks-ghost> im git submodule update
02:35:01 <jerks-ghost> monqy: how does it decide whether to build tiles or not
02:35:06 <jerks-ghost> i bet it decides to tiles on os x
02:35:12 <monqy> if you say make TILES=y it tileses
02:35:21 <monqy> maybe make tiles makes tiles too
02:35:24 <monqy> idk ive never made tiles
02:35:30 <jerks-ghost> Cloning into 'crawl-ref/source/contrib/pcre'...
02:35:30 <jerks-ghost> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
02:35:30 <jerks-ghost> Clone of 'git://gitorious.org/crawl/crawl-pcre.git' into submodule path 'crawl-ref/source/contrib/pcre' failed
02:35:31 <jerks-ghost> help
02:35:35 <jerks-ghost> oh now it works
02:35:44 <monqy> ????
02:35:53 <jerks-ghost> it failed but
02:35:54 <jerks-ghost> then it worked
02:35:57 <jerks-ghost> im updating the submodules
02:37:06 <jerks-ghost> No TILE defined for 'milk chocolate'
02:37:06 <jerks-ghost> No TILE defined for 'dark chocolate'
02:37:07 <jerks-ghost> oh NO!!!
02:38:53 * ion realized a brain/computer interface could be called a silicon implant.
02:39:13 <monqy> could it?
02:41:06 <jerks-ghost> crawl is slow to compile!!!!!!!
02:41:11 <monqy> yes
02:41:14 <monqy> you know what's fun
02:41:17 <monqy> touching a header
02:41:22 <monqy> and then everything recompiles
02:41:53 <jerks-ghost> "c++"
02:42:26 <shachaf> herks-ghost
02:43:09 <shachaf> is this "ur permenant nikc"
02:43:43 <jerks-ghost> CXX rltiles/tiledef-feat.o
02:43:44 <jerks-ghost> help
02:43:47 <jerks-ghost> looks like tiles to me !
02:43:52 <jerks-ghost> monqy: so uhhh
02:43:53 <jerks-ghost> if i start ./crawl
02:43:56 <jerks-ghost> will it put stuff in my home directory
02:44:06 <monqy> i dont think so
02:44:10 <monqy> "hop not"
02:44:18 <jerks-ghost> but
02:44:22 <jerks-ghost> high scores and stuff?
02:44:26 <jerks-ghost> katia:source elliott$ ./crawl
02:44:27 <jerks-ghost> ./dat/des/altar/altar.des:279: Map too large - 20x7 (max 16x16)
02:44:27 <jerks-ghost> help.
02:44:34 <monqy> that goes in source/something/somethingesel i think
02:44:40 <monqy> ar you termckasting
02:44:45 <jerks-ghost> help
02:44:49 <jerks-ghost> it won't astart
02:44:50 <jerks-ghost> katia:source elliott$ ./crawl
02:44:50 <jerks-ghost> ./dat/des/altar/altar.des:279: Map too large - 20x7 (max 16x16)
02:44:52 <jerks-ghost> should nt it be
02:44:53 <jerks-ghost> 24x24
02:44:56 <monqy> oh no is it
02:44:57 <monqy> is it broken
02:45:01 <monqy> did it get broke
02:45:07 <jerks-ghost> yes
02:45:08 <jerks-ghost> it
02:45:11 <jerks-ghost> prints that every time
02:45:13 <jerks-ghost> git diff
02:45:15 <monqy> :[
02:45:17 <jerks-ghost> maybe you have uncommitted stuffes
02:45:25 <monqy> it doesnt say so!!
02:45:52 <jerks-ghost> well
02:45:54 <jerks-ghost> type make
02:45:55 <jerks-ghost> does it work for you
02:46:14 <jerks-ghost> as in
02:46:15 <jerks-ghost> the resulting
02:46:15 <jerks-ghost> binary
02:46:58 <monqy> it works for me yes
02:47:11 <monqy> d:
02:47:11 <monqy> D:
02:47:13 <jerks-ghost> make clean
02:47:13 <jerks-ghost> make
02:47:18 <jerks-ghost> also
02:47:20 <jerks-ghost> you had a thing where you
02:47:22 <jerks-ghost> deleted lots of files
02:47:26 <jerks-ghost> was altar.des meant to be one of them
02:47:29 <jerks-ghost> i guess not since
02:47:32 <jerks-ghost> 20x7 < 24x24
02:47:33 <jerks-ghost> but uhhh
02:47:40 <jerks-ghost> yeah make clean && make and maybe then it'll break? because
02:47:42 <jerks-ghost> it thinks the maximum is 16x16
02:47:52 <monqy> ok i made clean and am mak
02:51:33 <jerks-ghost> ;_;
02:51:49 <monqy> mak taks tim
02:52:36 <jerks-ghost> you should add a new god called Maktakstim
02:52:45 <jerks-ghost> it's the god of slowness O H W A I T
02:55:37 <monqy> it uh
02:55:38 <monqy> still works
02:55:41 <monqy> ??? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ??
02:55:57 <monqy> hlep
02:56:42 <jerks-ghost> :'(
02:56:46 <jerks-ghost> try cloning a new repo?
02:58:23 <jerks-ghost> and then
02:58:24 <jerks-ghost> building that
02:58:25 <jerks-ghost> but uhhh
02:58:26 <monqy> o-k
02:58:34 <jerks-ghost> monqy: i think it might have built with tiles??
02:58:40 <monqy> waht
02:58:43 <jerks-ghost> because
02:58:43 <monqy> try
02:58:43 <jerks-ghost> os x
02:58:45 <monqy> building with
02:58:46 <monqy> not tiles
02:58:52 <jerks-ghost> should make TILES=n work
02:58:57 <monqy> maybe !
02:59:02 <kmc> OH WAIT
03:01:00 <jerks-ghost> tool/tile.cc:9:25: warning: SDL_image.h: No such file or directory
03:01:00 <jerks-ghost> tool/tile.cc: In member function ‘bool tile::load(const std::string&)’:
03:01:00 <jerks-ghost> tool/tile.cc:381: error: ‘IMG_Load’ was not declared in this scope
03:01:02 <jerks-ghost> make[1]: *** [tool/tile.o] Error 1
03:01:04 <jerks-ghost> make: *** [build-rltiles] Error 2
03:01:06 <jerks-ghost> help
03:01:08 <jerks-ghost> it did
03:01:10 <jerks-ghost> make -C rltiles all ARCH=x86_64-apple-darwin11.3.0 TILES=n
03:01:41 <jerks-ghost> monqy: where's the
03:01:42 <jerks-ghost> building documentation
03:02:03 <monqy> did oyu do the git submodule --init thing but really you shouldn--it's somewhere--'t need to build rltiles if you're not tiles ????? maybe crawls build just dum
03:02:20 <jerks-ghost> monqy: where's the
03:02:21 <jerks-ghost> building documentation
03:02:43 <monqy> somewhere!!
03:03:04 <monqy> http://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/downloads try this i think it has some documentat
03:03:24 <jerks-ghost> no theres
03:03:25 <jerks-ghost> a file
03:03:26 <jerks-ghost> with info
03:03:35 <monqy> oh i forget where that is
03:03:39 <monqy> "woops"
03:03:46 <monqy> maybe it's in like
03:03:48 <jerks-ghost> # Typical parameters:
03:03:48 <jerks-ghost> # TILES -- set to anything to enable tiles build
03:03:49 <monqy> the doc foler
03:03:50 <jerks-ghost> nooooo thats misleading
03:03:51 <monqy> or somethin
03:03:55 <monqy> D:
03:03:59 <monqy> that's awful
03:04:01 <jerks-ghost> where's
03:04:03 <jerks-ghost> the doc folder
03:04:09 <monqy> the sourc tre
03:04:17 <jerks-ghost> greet:
03:04:17 <monqy> might be docs
03:04:17 <jerks-ghost> @printf " * If you experience any problems building Crawl, please take a second look\\n"\
03:04:17 <jerks-ghost> " * at INSTALL.txt: the solution to your problem just might be in there!\\n"
03:04:19 <jerks-ghost> thanks
03:05:25 <jerks-ghost> Mac builds use the Unix build process described above, but require you
03:05:25 <jerks-ghost> to add 'APPLE_GCC=y' to the 'make' command-line. In addition, to build the
03:05:25 <jerks-ghost> graphical version of Crawl, you must add 'NO_PKGCONFIG=y' and
03:05:26 <jerks-ghost> 'CONTRIB_SDL=y'.
03:05:28 <jerks-ghost> creis
03:05:33 <jerks-ghost> im try
03:05:34 <jerks-ghost> APPLE_GCC=y
03:05:43 <jerks-ghost> monqy: can you check that
03:05:45 <jerks-ghost> dat/des/altar/altar.des
03:05:46 <jerks-ghost> exists for oyu
03:05:49 <jerks-ghost> *you
03:06:15 <monqy> it does
03:06:16 <jerks-ghost> im all headachey and bleh i blame crawl
03:06:34 <monqy> im make from the fresh clone now
03:10:28 <jerks-ghost> little did know when monqy forked crawl
03:10:31 <jerks-ghost> that he would have to support it
03:10:40 <monqy> D:
03:10:47 <monqy> i dont want to support it can i unfork it
03:11:00 <jerks-ghost> no
03:11:07 <jerks-ghost> theres no going back
03:12:06 <shachaf> jerks-ghost: why are you called "jerks-ghost", jerks-ghost
03:14:13 <jerks-ghost> monqy: did it work
03:14:36 <monqy> ok FINALLY it break
03:15:14 <jerks-ghost> ok now
03:15:18 <jerks-ghost> monqy: diff your two directories
03:15:19 <jerks-ghost> or
03:15:20 <jerks-ghost> something
03:15:23 <jerks-ghost> oh wait!
03:15:24 <jerks-ghost> try
03:15:26 <jerks-ghost> git diff --cached
03:15:30 <jerks-ghost> in the
03:15:34 <jerks-ghost> old directory
03:15:34 <jerks-ghost> or just
03:15:38 <jerks-ghost> diff the two directories but i'd do that first
03:18:20 <jerks-ghost> monqy: if diff says theres no differences ill
03:18:22 <jerks-ghost> scream
03:19:05 <monqy> screm
03:19:47 -!- TeruFSX2 has changed nick to TeruFSX.
03:19:54 <jerks-ghost> monqy: are you srs
03:19:55 <jerks-ghost> did you
03:19:57 <jerks-ghost> diff it correctly
03:20:10 <jerks-ghost> diff -r dir1 dir2
03:20:16 <jerks-ghost> uh -u too i guess
03:20:58 <monqy> the onlllllly thing i can find that diffffers that i think might make adifference is
03:21:09 <monqy> saves/des
03:21:22 <jerks-ghost> hmmm
03:21:34 <jerks-ghost> looks suspicious to me!!!
03:21:35 <monqy> sure enough i remvo and it break
03:21:44 <jerks-ghost> well
03:21:51 <monqy> but now what went wrong !!
03:21:52 <jerks-ghost> the error is
03:21:55 <jerks-ghost> 03:45 <jerks-ghost> ./dat/des/altar/altar.des:279: Map too large - 20x7 (max 16x16)
03:21:58 <jerks-ghost> so i bet somewhere you have 16
03:21:59 <jerks-ghost> where you meant 24
03:22:05 <ion> I love assumptions like this in math questions: “The person is entirely made of water, which weighs 1kg/L.”
03:22:07 <jerks-ghost> like you divided by two once too many or something!!!
03:22:11 <jerks-ghost> so uh
03:22:12 <jerks-ghost> fix that
03:22:22 <jerks-ghost> at least there's not many places it can be
03:22:32 <monqy> D:
03:23:09 <jerks-ghost> i can even
03:23:12 <jerks-ghost> narrow it down
03:23:15 <monqy> ok
03:23:24 <jerks-ghost> its either
03:23:25 <jerks-ghost> http://gitorious.org/~monqy/crawl/monqys-crawl/commit/934ebc7df7933d82e37bf959b5e62c749a2efffc
03:23:29 <jerks-ghost> or http://gitorious.org/~monqy/crawl/monqys-crawl/commit/fc9667dff88582d60a78de5b4bc36074c69dcb98 (<-- less likely)
03:26:06 <monqy> i'll think about it when i have less homwork
03:26:16 <shachaf> monqy: hi does elliott have me on /ignore
03:26:24 <monqy> I don't know.
03:26:33 <shachaf> or does he just h8 me :(
03:26:37 <monqy> I don't know.
03:27:05 <shachaf> what is that thing at the end of your sentence
03:27:14 <monqy> thing
03:27:27 <monqy> oh i have to go "oops"
03:27:37 <shachaf> bonqy
03:29:00 <jerks-ghost> i may never get to play monqys-crawl :'(
03:38:47 -!- oklopol has joined.
03:44:34 -!- quintopia has joined.
04:01:23 -!- quintopia has quit (Quit: leaving).
04:01:36 -!- jerks-ghost has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:03:23 -!- quintopia has joined.
04:16:03 -!- zzo38 has joined.
04:19:53 -!- asiekierka has joined.
04:29:02 -!- madbr has joined.
04:32:42 -!- zzo38 has set topic: It looks like a pipe, but it is not. Anemometers don't fire bullets. Not even the explosive ones! Or I don't think they do ... if they do, meteorologists are more hardcore than I thought possible. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
04:33:31 <quintopia> ceci n'est pas une pipe?
04:40:23 <zzo38> OK
04:58:08 -!- calamari has left ("Leaving").
05:08:46 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.).
06:01:12 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
06:01:28 <pikhq_> Ceci n'est pas une "ceci n'est pas une pipe".
06:01:52 <shachaf> why is french weirde
06:02:07 <shachaf> it should be like english
06:02:33 <pikhq_> The French musta thought English should be more like French.
06:02:38 <pikhq_> Hence the invasion.
06:03:46 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
06:04:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Quit: Wychodzi).
06:12:00 <madbr> latin meets german did it
06:15:13 <zzo38> Who is Arthur Mometer?
06:15:58 -!- zzo38 has set topic: It looks like a pipe, but it is not. Astronomers don't fire bullets. Not even the explosive ones! Or I don't think they do ... if they do, meteors are even more hardcore than I thought possible. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
06:26:21 <shachaf> @tell elliott By the way, the "unordered tuple" thing is just n-choose-k.
06:26:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
06:26:52 <ion> @telliott
06:26:52 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
06:27:11 <shachaf> thion
06:36:34 <shachaf> @tell elliott OK, maybe not quite.
06:36:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
06:38:27 <monqy> unordered tuple? multiset?
06:40:38 <shachaf> @tell elliott (n + k - 1) choose (k - 1)?
06:40:38 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
06:40:47 <shachaf> monqy: Of a particular size.
06:40:57 <monqy> right
06:41:25 <monqy> I've heard that (n + k - 1) choose (k - 1) thing called "multichoose" too
06:42:19 <kmc> shachaf, do you know why -fstack-protector would have a much higher relative performance impact on an Atom N270 than a Core 2 Duo?
06:42:28 <shachaf> monqy: I haven't heard that.
06:42:44 <monqy> I have!
06:42:50 <shachaf> kmc: Nope.
06:42:55 <shachaf> Any more details?
06:43:12 <kmc> that's about all i have
06:43:22 <shachaf> How did you measure it?
06:43:40 <kmc> also i used GCC 4.4 and 4.6 respectively, so that might be it
06:43:51 <kmc> shachaf: ran a Mosh benchmark program a few times
06:44:16 <shachaf> You should try profiling it.
06:44:23 <shachaf> No idea whether that'll yield any insights.
06:44:42 <kmc> function-level profiling probably will not
06:44:50 <kmc> since each function has its own copy of the stack-check code
06:45:16 <kmc> ...that could be why, actually.
06:45:21 <kmc> i-cache blowout
06:45:34 <shachaf> Right, instruction-level profiling.
06:45:50 <kmc> i don't know how to do that, and i don't know if the Atom has the right CPU features
06:45:58 <shachaf> That seems like a reasonable theory. How much code does it actually generate?
06:46:19 <shachaf> The Linux program "perf" makes at least some kinds of instruction-level profiling pretty easy, I think.
06:46:23 <shachaf> There's also oprofile.
06:46:40 <kmc> i also don't have the Atom machine handy anymore :/
06:47:01 <shachaf> You should use perf anyway!
06:47:06 <shachaf> It's nifty.
06:47:06 <kmc> maybe
06:48:05 <kmc> i was also thinking it could be bad branch prediction
06:48:12 <kmc> basically i can only speculate
06:49:02 <shachaf> kmc: apt-get install linux-base # maybe?; perf record ./blah; perf annotate
06:54:13 <shachaf> monqy: thonqy
06:54:18 <shachaf> Good operation.
06:55:01 <kmc> shachaf: on amd64 it adds at least 25 bytes to each function
06:55:39 <shachaf> -fstack-protector is for people who make mistakes. Just don't make mistakes.
06:55:46 <kmc> seriously
07:01:35 <itidus21> i write all my source code compressed to save keystrokes
07:03:21 <Deewiant> You might as well write the binary directly then because making changes to any part of that code will entail rewriting most of it
07:04:39 <itidus21> hmm.. i write the binary compressed..
07:07:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
07:09:09 <itidus21> PK A,8
07:09:12 <zzo38> If you write the binary directly, it makes the program less portable and less adjustable, I would think. Still, for sufficiently small and simple programs it may be useful.
07:09:35 <itidus21> it requires a lot of messing around with the Alt key though
07:09:45 <zzo38> itidus21: Is this in ZIP format?
07:10:00 <itidus21> lol. wow.. nice spotting.
07:10:15 <Deewiant> The "PK" kind of gave it away
07:10:17 <itidus21> its not quite genuine though.. i faked some parts of it
07:10:40 <itidus21> yes.. for all those people who know that zip files start with a PK when viewed as ascii :P
07:10:47 <zzo38> The PK followed by CTRL+C and CTRL+D is what made me realize; these are the first four bytes of any ZIP file.
07:10:47 <itidus21> its a dead giveaway :-s
07:11:11 <itidus21> the rest of the code is faked with spaces etc
07:11:58 <itidus21> humm.. im just being silly of course
07:13:50 <itidus21> i was inspired by shachaf's comment about not making mistakes
07:14:30 <kmc> itidus21: you're a Real Hacker
07:16:15 <kmc> shachaf: the code gets about 12% bigger with stack-smashing protection
07:16:18 <kmc> (on 32-bit now)
07:16:21 <itidus21> i'm not trying to hide the fact i took a zipfile(instead of traditionally open compression format) and opened it in Windows wordpad and pasted the first few chars
07:17:11 <itidus21> or the fact that producing source code in compressed format would be computationally more expensive
07:17:55 <shachaf> kmc: That's a bigger increase than I thought.
07:18:00 <kmc> i guess that... could explain a 20% performance hit?
07:18:05 <kmc> not sure
07:18:06 <shachaf> Maybe?
07:18:10 <shachaf> You should profile it. :-)
07:18:19 <kmc> i don't know if I care enough to dig deep on this
07:18:24 <kmc> but it would be cool to learn how to do that
07:18:30 <kmc> but i have so many other things i could do
07:18:40 <kmc> i'm going to blog post it and hope someone else tells me the answer
07:18:41 <itidus21> but i think it would be cool in a sci fi kind of way to be able to type data in compressed format
07:19:09 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorthand
07:19:16 <shachaf> kmc: I would measure it but I don't have a program or an Atom CPU handy.
07:19:24 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenotype
07:19:36 <shachaf> But perf etc. can measure icache misses pretty easily, I think.
07:19:39 <kmc> court stenographers are the true cyberpunk heros
07:19:41 <kmc> yeah
07:19:56 <kmc> the program is in Mosh; i can send you a link
07:20:07 <shachaf> I heard of that program once.
07:20:46 <kmc> hm oh I do have an Atom machine I forgot about
07:20:53 <kmc> but it's running a weird Linux distro
07:21:10 <shachaf> Doesn't make a big difference, I think.
07:21:11 <kmc> also it's not the same one I did the original measurements on
07:21:26 <shachaf> If you can't reproduce the original measurements on, even better!
07:21:28 <kmc> and it's not turned on
07:21:34 <shachaf> Ouch.
07:21:35 <kmc> so I'd have to walk all the way upstairs
07:21:38 <shachaf> OK, unpossible.
07:21:45 <kmc> it's not even plugged in, man!
07:22:10 <kmc> grr
07:22:22 <kmc> the forces of curiosity and laziness are doing battle in my head
07:23:00 <shachaf> You can do it, laziness!
07:23:03 <itidus21> unpossible = simpsons reference 1. maybe. airconditioner fighting the heater in the rental car is the second.
07:23:34 <shachaf> kmc: You should "learn" to do simple instruction-level profiling.
07:23:37 <shachaf> It's fun to a point.
07:23:43 <shachaf> And perf has this fancy TUI.
07:24:42 <kmc> ok fine i'll at least see if perf can get cache misses on atom
07:25:06 <kmc> i'll use the same Atom machine I used before (but not the same OS install)
07:25:12 <kmc> which is not ideal because it's under load
07:25:21 <shachaf> Load?
07:25:59 <kmc> oh, wait, no I don't have that machine at all
07:26:04 <kmc> it's in new york city
07:26:16 <kmc> too many netbooks
07:26:40 <kmc> the one i have has a 900 MHz Celeron M, not an Atom
07:29:51 <kmc> fuck it
07:29:58 <kmc> let the internet sort this one out
07:32:31 <shachaf> LAZINESS WINS AGAIN
07:34:08 <kmc> shachaf: it's 12% bigger because we stack protect *every* function
07:34:18 <shachaf> Just protect the ones with bugs in them.
07:34:22 <kmc> even the ones with no buffers
07:34:34 <kmc> shachaf: i might have to upgrade gcc to get that feature
07:35:21 <shachaf> kmc: Did you know Either (Nat,Nat) Nat is an even type, but (Nat,Nat) isn't?
07:35:47 <pikhq_> shachaf: Better: annotate the ones with bugs in them.
07:36:00 <pikhq_> Then, you can stick every single statement in its own function!
07:36:37 <shachaf> @tell elliott Did you know Either (Nat,Nat) Nat is an even type, but (Nat,Nat) isn't? Becuase of the extra diagonal.
07:36:37 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:36:52 <kmc> what's an even type?
07:37:14 <shachaf> @tell elliott Also it's actually just (n + k - 1) choose k, for the sensible value of k
07:37:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:37:21 <shachaf> kmc: A type you can divide by 2.
07:37:31 <shachaf> For example Bool is even but Maybe Bool isn't.
07:37:45 <kmc> i didn't read that paper on quotient types or whatever
07:37:51 <shachaf> I didn't either.
07:37:55 <kmc> ok
07:38:06 <kmc> well then
07:38:07 <shachaf> Just #haskell-blah gossip with dolio.
07:38:27 <shachaf> kmc: It makes some sense for (n^2 + n) to be even for any value of n.
07:38:35 <shachaf> 00:33 < dolio> The reason is, I guess, that Left (n, n) is the same as Right n, and Left (m, n) is the same as Left (n, m), so there are two of every thing you want to make into one element.
07:38:38 <shachaf> 00:34 < dolio> You can't just divide Nat * Nat by 2, though, because there is only one of each of the diagonal.
07:38:42 <shachaf> 00:34 < dolio> You have to add an extra diagonal to it.
07:41:06 <shachaf> I know what even finite types are but even infinite types are a bit weirder.
07:41:32 <shachaf> Maybe Nat is also even.
07:41:43 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur).
07:41:58 <shachaf> I'm not sure either makes sense.
07:42:02 <shachaf> Nat = 1 + Nat, after all.
07:46:32 <zzo38> Tell me what half of (Either (Nat,Nat) Nat) is?
07:47:12 <shachaf> An unordered pair of Nats.
07:48:16 <zzo38> OK
07:48:27 <zzo38> Prove it
07:48:31 <shachaf> Well, in general for a finite type x, (x^2+x)/2 is an unordered pair of xs.
07:48:47 <shachaf> zzo38: See dolio's thing above for a mapping.
07:49:06 <shachaf> I'm not sure that it's valid for infinite types, but take it for arbitrary finite types instead. :-)
07:55:59 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
08:02:06 <cheater_> doesn't even type just mean there's a cycle of length two through which you can create a quotient
08:02:55 <cheater_> because if yes then it's fairly obvious anything with a binary choice in series with other type features will be even
08:04:18 <cheater_> i liked dolio's explanation
08:04:53 <cheater_> i really like the fact that this channel is talking about haskell, even though it's not really an esolang
08:07:01 <kmc> OR IS IT??????
08:07:02 <qfr> It isn't?
08:07:12 <kmc> esolang is in the eye of the beholder
08:07:14 <cheater_> well i use it at my job
08:07:21 <kmc> oh really
08:07:23 <cheater_> it's totally in the industry
08:07:27 <kmc> what do you use it for?
08:07:35 <kmc> did you tell #haskell? did they cream their pants?
08:07:41 <cheater_> i told you the last thing i used it for
08:07:41 <qfr> kmc +1
08:07:50 <cheater_> and you creamed your pants
08:07:53 <kmc> oh
08:07:55 <kmc> i don't remember
08:08:01 <cheater_> except that was a lie because your pants were probably off already
08:08:04 <kmc> yeah
08:08:09 <kmc> there's really no reason to wear pants
08:08:16 <cheater_> unless you're having guests
08:08:20 <cheater_> (yeah right)
08:08:59 <kmc> yeah when i have guests over, i have to put pants on
08:09:02 <kmc> sometimes they come off though
08:09:35 <cheater_> like when the mormons come over for a bible talk?
08:09:44 <kmc> yes
08:09:48 <cheater_> love thy brother
08:10:21 <cheater_> highlight of yesterday's visit to hi-fi tradeshow: audiophile breakers
08:11:46 <cheater_> gold-plated contacts n' all
08:15:24 <kmc> circuit breakers?
08:15:32 <cheater_> yea
08:15:43 <cheater_> the stuff that's in your breaker box
08:15:43 <zzo38> data Zero; data UnordNatTag :: * -> * where { Z :: UnordNatTag Zero; S :: UnordNatTag x -> UnordNatTag (Maybe x); }; type UnordNatPair = DSum UnordNatTag; Is this a correct way of an unordered pair of natural numbers?
08:15:55 <kmc> wow
08:15:58 <kmc> that's a hell of an industry
08:16:02 <kmc> i should get into it
08:16:06 <cheater_> cocaine's a hell of a drug
08:16:07 <kmc> do they have special food for audiophiles yet?
08:16:11 <kmc> they have special food for gamers
08:16:16 <cheater_> they do?
08:16:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
08:16:25 <cheater_> i've seen special food for geeks
08:16:27 <cheater_> ubuntu cola
08:16:31 <kmc> haha
08:16:33 <cheater_> you seen ubuntu cola?
08:16:36 <cheater_> it's a thing in london
08:16:52 <cheater_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Cola
08:16:56 <kmc> http://www.gamergrub.com/
08:17:04 <kmc> nice
08:17:17 <kmc> looks like it's not really related to the OS?
08:17:21 <cheater_> no
08:17:28 <cheater_> it's still an african scam though
08:17:29 <kmc> too bad
08:17:35 <kmc> 419 cola
08:17:40 <cheater_> ++
08:18:04 <kmc> 419 scam westerners every day
08:18:06 <pikhq_> You can do much better than audiophile stuff.
08:18:09 <pikhq_> Homeopathy!
08:18:09 <cheater_> "boost your game with gamer grub"
08:18:13 <cheater_> how fucking quaint
08:18:25 <cheater_> pikhq_: oh yeah, that's really good too
08:18:32 <cheater_> so anyways
08:18:33 <pikhq_> Actually, combine them.
08:18:39 <pikhq_> Homeopathic audiophile equipment.
08:19:07 <cheater_> this western electric stuff, i've seen a recreation of it
08:19:15 <cheater_> just one tweeter cost 9000 euro
08:19:19 <pikhq_> "Each box contains a 50X solution of Sennheiser headphones, making your audio experience the best it can be!"
08:19:29 <cheater_> and it's like an electromagnet and a small horn and that's it
08:19:43 <cheater_> nothing you couldn't do on a rotary mill
08:21:28 <zzo38> Do you know answer for my question above?
08:23:13 <cheater_> not i, perhaps try to explain your reasoning?
08:24:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
08:24:55 <zzo38> I am using the DSum type from "dependent-sum" package; it is defined as follows: data DSum tag = forall a. !(tag a) :=> a
08:28:12 <zzo38> This way may be better: data UnordNatTag :: * -> * where { Z :: UnordNatTag (Maybe Zero); S :: UnordNatTag (Maybe x) -> UnordNatTag (Maybe (Maybe x)); };
08:30:09 <zzo38> It does seem to work; it is not really unordered but the larger number must come first so it acts like just two natural numbers put in one box where you don't know the order
08:36:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
08:38:33 -!- Taneb has joined.
08:38:42 <Taneb> Hello
08:38:57 <zzo38> getUNP :: UnordNatPair -> (Integer, Integer); getUNP (Z :=> Nothing) = (0, 0); getUNP (S x :=> Nothing) = (\(a, b) -> (succ a, b)) $ getUNP (x :=> Nothing); getUNP (S x :=> Just y) = (\(a, b) -> (succ a, succ b)) $ getUNP (x :=> y);
08:39:47 <zzo38> putUNP :: (Integer, Integer) -> UnordNatPair; putUNP (0, 0) = (Z :=> Nothing); putUNP (x, y) | x < 0 || y < 0 = error "Cannot use negative numbers here"; putUNP (x, y) | x < y = putUNP (y, x); putUNP (x, 0) = case (putUNP (pred x, 0)) of { (Z :=> Nothing) -> (S Z :=> Nothing); (S a :=> Nothing) -> (S (S a) :=> Nothing); }; putUNP (x, y) = case (putUNP (pred x, pred y)) of { (Z :=> b) -> (S Z :=> Just b); (S a :=> b) -> (S (S a) :=> Just b); };
08:42:12 <zzo38> It works for me.
08:48:23 <Taneb> @ping
08:48:23 <lambdabot> pong
08:49:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:49:53 -!- Taneb has joined.
08:49:57 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
08:54:15 <zzo38> ping....ouch.....
08:54:54 <Taneb> :P
08:58:44 -!- shubshub has joined.
08:58:48 <shubshub> Hi
08:59:19 <cheater_> @ping
08:59:19 <lambdabot> pong
08:59:25 <cheater_> interesting.
08:59:37 <shubshub> Hai cheater
08:59:59 <shubshub> !ping
09:00:04 <EgoBot> Pong!
09:00:16 <shubshub> !!!Batch a
09:01:06 <shubshub> Who delted my interp!!!!!!!!
09:01:19 <zzo38> My brother called mahjong players that called sequences a lot, a "chii"ter
09:01:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: DOING OTHER THINGS).
09:03:14 <shubshub> DONR IGNORE ME!
09:03:45 <zzo38> OK
09:03:47 -!- azaq23 has joined.
09:03:58 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
09:04:15 <shubshub> Who deleted my user interp!
09:04:28 <zzo38> I don't know
09:04:32 <shubshub> ....
09:05:02 * shubshub needs another fejoa
09:08:39 <kmc> what's that
09:08:54 <kmc> fruit?-
09:09:08 <kmc> is it delicious
09:13:23 <shubshub> yes
09:13:40 <shubshub> Ihave a huge fejoa tree in my yard
09:25:18 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: That is what happens when you burn your finger on an ash tray).
09:44:21 <pikhq_> Why am I good at being awake at unreasonable hours?
09:44:42 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a skill, all right.
09:45:16 <pikhq_> Least desirable skill.
09:45:27 <pikhq_> Am I turning into elliott?
09:45:37 <shubshub> lol
09:45:52 <pikhq_> I've got the "awake at stupid hours and complaining about it" bit down, at least.
09:46:03 * shubshub should start playing dwarf fortress
09:46:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Turning into elliott: also a useful skill.
09:46:16 <shubshub> Why
09:46:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Playing Dwarf Fortress: a useful skills.
09:46:25 <pikhq_> Also the hubris. But that just comes with being a programmer.
09:46:35 <Phantom_Hoover> (there are so many skills involved)
09:46:38 <shubshub> How is that useful :P and whats hubris?
09:47:49 <shubshub> Phantom_Hoover: how is playing dwarf fortress a usefull skill?
09:48:14 <Phantom_Hoover> suppose you find yourself stuck in the wilderness with 6 other dwarves and a wagon full of supplies
09:48:16 <Phantom_Hoover> what now
09:48:48 -!- Ngevd has joined.
09:48:51 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: I suffer from miasma.
09:49:03 <Ngevd> Hello
09:49:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Ngevd, do you feel you could survive indefinitely given only a square of lightless dirt, one plump helmet seed and a rock.
09:49:59 <shubshub> lul
09:50:08 <Ngevd> Phantom_Hoover, probably
09:50:28 <Ngevd> Assuming I had some space next to the dirt
09:50:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, fair point.
09:50:48 -!- ais523 has joined.
09:50:48 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Can't farm that seed without a hoe and a water block.
09:50:58 * shubshub got his DSTT working :P
09:51:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Hahaha pikhq_ is stupid minecrafter.
09:51:05 <Ngevd> pikhq_, it's dirt, you can use your hands
09:51:22 <Ngevd> pikhq_, and Plump Helmets are pretty hardy
09:51:34 <Phantom_Hoover> You only need water for bare cave floors, and moving it to the farm should always be a colossal undertaking.
09:51:38 <Phantom_Hoover> It is the Dwarven Way.
09:51:57 <pikhq_> The only dwarves I like are in Boatmurdered.
09:52:00 <Ngevd> My advice is don't try to make an underground fishing plaza
09:52:06 <Ngevd> It's not worth it
09:52:27 <Phantom_Hoover> I made one by accident in Rosyarrow.
09:53:50 <shubshub> aaaaah that Peaceful Dragon Quest 9 Music ATLAST :D
09:53:55 <Phantom_Hoover> (It was meant to be a well.)
09:54:02 <Phantom_Hoover> (That didn't really work out.)
09:54:17 <shubshub> and it freezes......
09:54:53 <shubshub> Maybe DQH Rocket slimes is better then :P
09:55:06 <shubshub> :D
09:55:27 <shubshub> Dragon Quest Heroes Rocket Slimes FTW
10:00:15 <itidus21> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGA7kGPEVPE "Drunk teacher"
10:01:13 <Ngevd> All of my fortresses that have ended for reasons other than boredom or goblins, have ended due to underground fishing plazas
10:01:43 <shubshub> SPACE INVADERS!!!!
10:06:59 -!- cheater__ has joined.
10:10:46 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
10:22:58 -!- MoALTz has joined.
10:31:36 -!- cswords has joined.
10:34:10 -!- cswords__ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
10:40:54 -!- shubshub has quit (Quit: Its Illegal).
10:41:36 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
10:42:29 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
10:46:19 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:50:26 -!- Ngevd has joined.
10:53:37 -!- MoALTz__ has joined.
10:55:37 -!- MoALTz__ has quit (Client Quit).
10:56:18 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
11:14:38 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:17:26 <kmc> shachaf: i'm playing with perf now
11:21:01 <kmc> kind of insane to run a short test program and see "98,469,751,820 instructions"
11:21:08 <kmc> i'm still not really used to how fast computers are
11:29:07 -!- nortti has joined.
11:30:22 -!- derdon has joined.
11:39:07 <nortti> sasl still requires a bit of tweaking (you can't use autoconnect) but I have moustly solved my problems like irssi crashing
11:39:29 -!- Ngevd has joined.
11:53:55 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
11:56:43 -!- Ngevd has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
12:06:46 -!- itidus20 has joined.
12:08:29 -!- ion has joined.
12:10:10 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
12:11:22 -!- Ngevd has joined.
12:13:32 <Ngevd> Hello
12:13:37 <Ngevd> I'm in a Taneb mood
12:13:39 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb.
12:13:52 <nortti> `? Ngevd
12:13:56 <nortti> `? Taneb
12:14:07 <HackEgo> ​:mt"4}*.J<,C.).Y?;H.sܭ~~Fv..$:..؀|]&.}Dt7C9.Sl-O9.Ӝ.O-g[XPwU{%.|,.tvڛ3q.ZeQ.ie=hߑ..e2w8M2ND/ZWj/.'a.*{t..6.؋2f7tZayj.%5d$ʠKK..PyEqnhS*f"4..uI.pvqI.fe. \ HÚNO.K1u.5M&g.
12:14:16 <HackEgo> Taneb ? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:14:38 <Taneb> `? nortti
12:14:40 <HackEgo> nortti? ¯\(°_o)/¯
12:16:33 -!- MoALTz has joined.
12:17:04 <Taneb> `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask.
12:17:07 <HackEgo> I knew that.
12:18:47 <itidus20> `? elliott
12:18:51 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things?
12:26:12 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
12:51:02 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
12:58:11 -!- MoALTz has joined.
12:59:29 <kmc> shachaf: i'm unable to reproduce the performance hit on my other atom machine :/
12:59:52 <kmc> and stack protector does not make a large difference in the number of branches or branch mispredictions
13:34:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Goodbye).
13:35:46 <oklopol> what's a user interp?
13:36:23 -!- itidus22 has joined.
13:40:37 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
13:53:07 <cheater__> oklopol: it interps users
13:53:50 <cheater__> kmc: maybe one of your machines is compiled for atom's funny machine code and not for x86?
13:54:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
13:56:36 <kmc> what's that cheater__?
13:56:42 <kmc> do you mean LPIA?
13:57:11 <cheater__> no idea, i remember atom has its own set of instructions that it translatex x86 to
13:57:18 <cheater__> it can also be fed that directly
13:57:24 <cheater__> there was ubuntu for that i think
13:57:32 <cheater__> or debian or something
13:57:57 <kmc> i think you're thinking of lpia
13:58:14 <cheater__> i might be
13:58:15 <kmc> which isn't really a different instruction set, just a different set of optimization options
13:58:21 <kmc> as i understand it
13:58:28 <cheater__> right
13:58:44 <kmc> was supported by ubuntu for a little while, but it never took off and got desupported
13:58:47 <cheater__> i thought atom was actually some sort of risced thing
13:59:00 <cheater__> yeah, i heard they shut it down when it brought no improvement at all
13:59:34 <cheater__> so what's up kmc
13:59:36 <kmc> i mean all (?) x86 implementations use microcode
13:59:54 <cheater__> yeah
13:59:58 <kmc> you can sort of consider that 'translating to RISC' but Atom is not special in this regard, afaik
14:00:20 <cheater__> yeah but you can't normally feed the cpu its microcode
14:00:21 <cheater__> can you
14:00:27 <kmc> no
14:00:35 <kmc> sometimes you can upload new microcode
14:00:40 <cheater__> can u
14:00:41 <kmc> to fix bugs with particular instructions, or add new ones
14:00:55 <cheater__> can you do that on any desktop intels
14:01:06 <kmc> but that's more like redefining a single instruction; you can't upload an arbitrarily long stream of microcode and say "execute this" afaik
14:01:11 <kmc> think so
14:01:37 <cheater__> is that because of the pentium floating point mult fiasco
14:01:55 <kmc> hm I doubt that would be fixable in microcode anyway
14:01:56 <kmc> but i don't know
14:03:24 <cheater__> so what are you trying to do on atom?
14:03:40 <cheater__> sounds like something being done for work
14:05:04 <kmc> Transmeta implemented x86 with a software JIT sort of thing and a chip with their own VLIW architecture
14:05:24 <cheater__> or is it a super duper secret ksploracle project you're working on
14:05:37 <cheater__> ksplorificle
14:05:43 <kmc> and of course you can JIT x86 to RISC architectures not explicitly designed for it
14:05:46 <kmc> using qemu
14:05:57 <cheater__> that's pretty cute
14:06:17 <cheater__> i like how qemu does every thing you can imagine
14:06:30 <kmc> and the Loongson 3 variant of MIPS has a bunch of extra instructions to make that JITted code faster
14:06:36 <kmc> specifically for x86
14:06:43 <kmc> i don't work for ksploracle
14:07:06 <kmc> lately i have been working on http://mosh.mit.edu/
14:07:11 <kmc> as a volunteer / open source thing
14:07:41 <cheater__> the only thing i've been doing lately is working out
14:07:47 <kmc> one thing i did was add automatic binary hardening -- stack protector, position independent code, etc.
14:07:51 <cheater__> i should start doing like, geeky stuff again
14:07:59 <kmc> and so I wanted to see how much performance this cost
14:08:05 <kmc> and one of my test machines was this atom netbook
14:08:29 <cheater__> was it a huge hit
14:08:35 <kmc> and it got a surprisingly large hit from stack protector
14:08:42 <kmc> and I'm not sure why
14:08:46 <kmc> so that's what I'm trying to figure out
14:09:05 <cheater__> how many colors does mosh support
14:10:04 <kmc> turning on all the hardening cost like 29% on the netbook
14:10:36 <cheater__> how much was it on a normal pc thing
14:10:41 <cheater__> negligible?
14:10:55 <kmc> 17% on another 32-bit Atom system
14:11:09 <kmc> 4% on my Core 2 Duo laptop
14:11:20 <kmc> 2% on my Phenom II desktop
14:11:36 <kmc> it's expected that position-independent code has a 5-10% performance penalty on 32-bit x86
14:11:50 <cheater__> have you thought that maybe it's just a constant amount of performance being eaten
14:12:04 <cheater__> and since an atom has overall much less performance that constant amount is a higher percentage
14:12:24 <kmc> but I'm not sure why stack protector should have another 20% on top of that, for the one atom only
14:12:27 <kmc> yeah, that might be
14:16:46 -!- asiekierka has joined.
14:17:34 <kmc> comparing the speeds of the two atom machines just about accounts for 29% vs 17% hit
14:17:45 <kmc> but on the former, like 80% of the performance hit goes away if you disable stack protector
14:17:55 <kmc> and on the latter only like 40%
14:19:00 <kmc> but it's all a bit iffy
14:19:06 <kmc> there are various other differences, like GCC version
14:23:23 <kmc> i'm not trying to do rigorous science here
14:23:33 <kmc> just to get an idea of how much it costs us
14:23:49 <kmc> really that's already settled and I'm just writing up a blog post for other people who want to add hardening to their autoconf projects
14:27:27 <kmc> cheater__: mosh supports 256 colors, if the outer terminal does
14:28:46 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
14:32:22 <cheater__> k
14:32:37 <cheater__> does vim work well over mosh
14:33:56 <kmc> yeah
14:35:47 <cheater__> that's all i need
14:36:22 <kmc> cool cool
14:36:31 <kmc> i mainly use it for irssi
14:36:58 <cheater__> i tire of chatting in fixed fonts quickly
14:37:04 <kmc> heh
14:37:22 <kmc> whereas i swiched from xchat to irssi so i could have a persistent session over mosh :)
14:37:33 <cheater__> http://www.dangerousmusic.com/ass.html
14:37:35 <kmc> gotta do the same for aim / gchat
14:37:49 <kmc> haha
14:37:51 <cheater__> yeah i kinda don't give a fuck about that
14:38:12 <cheater__> it's mostly, look on irc, see if you can have fun for n minutes, leave
14:38:20 <kmc> heh
14:38:26 <cheater__> having scrollback is useful but only marginally
14:38:55 <kmc> i've been on connections which are too shit to connect to irc at all
14:38:59 <kmc> but mosh works ok
14:39:10 <cheater__> really
14:39:15 <kmc> also if you're in the middle of a conversation and need to switch from wifi to cell or such
14:39:18 <kmc> then the roaming is nice
14:39:19 <cheater__> that's pretty impressive
14:39:28 <cheater__> that it works better than irc that is
14:39:31 <cheater__> i can see why
14:39:35 <cheater__> but i'm still surprised
14:39:46 <kmc> yeah, IRC is TCP-based
14:39:56 <kmc> TCP does not do well with non-congestive packet loss
14:40:17 <cheater__> yea
14:40:39 <cheater__> kmc: would you put these in your house http://hifiheroin.blogspot.de/2012/04/munich-high-end-2012-preview.html
14:40:45 <kmc> and it will drop entirely if you go too long without an ack
14:41:04 <kmc> whereas a mosh session will survive arbitrarily long and will come back within 3 seconds if the network comes up
14:41:30 <cheater__> yea
14:41:32 <kmc> i can take my laptop on the subway and use my mosh sessions for the one bit where it comes out of the ground to go over the bridge between Boston and Cambridge
14:41:34 <cheater__> why 3 seconds?
14:41:43 <cheater__> is 3 seconds a built in delay or something?
14:41:43 <kmc> that's the heartbeat packet interval
14:41:47 <cheater__> ok
14:48:41 <Sgeo> kmc, the mobile shell, or something else?
14:48:51 <Sgeo> (See? I did Google!)
14:48:53 <kmc> cheater__: speaking of qemu have you used ubuntu's magical qemulated chroots?
14:49:17 <kmc> Sgeo: i'm talking about http://mosh.mit.edu/
14:49:26 <Sgeo> kmc, ah, so yes
14:51:51 <Sgeo> No Windows client :(
14:52:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:55:01 <Sgeo> " The heartbeats allow Mosh to inform the user when it hasn't heard from the server in a while (unlike SSH, where users may be unaware of a dropped connection until they try to type)."
14:55:03 <Sgeo> I love it already
14:55:08 <kmc> mosh-1.2 works in Cygwin, maybe
14:55:17 <kmc> some people say it does, some say it doesn't
14:55:36 <kmc> the core mosh team doesn't use Windows
14:56:08 * ais523 tries to explain the may bank holiday to non-british people
14:56:32 <ais523> (elliott and ngevd, when they logread this, will understand why that's amusing)
14:56:45 <ais523> (or maybe not, if they assume that every country works like that)
14:56:53 <kmc> what's the amusing part?
14:57:33 <ais523> kmc: it's a holiday that doesn't commemorate anything
14:57:42 <ais523> most countries have too many holidays to celebrate one thing or another
14:58:00 <ais523> the UK doesn't have enough, so it adds a couple at convenient times of year just because people need a holiday
14:58:06 <kmc> heh
14:58:12 <kmc> so it's not a May Day labour thing?
14:58:18 <ais523> no
14:58:25 <ais523> well, hmm, perhaps it was originally, I'll check wikipedia
14:59:23 <Sgeo> :Q: Does mosh work with Amazon EC2?
14:59:23 <Sgeo> Yes, it works great, but please remember to open up UDP ports 6000061000 on the EC2 firewall.:
14:59:39 <ais523> hmm, seems it was originally created by merging 8¼ saint's days (on average) and the day after whitsun
14:59:43 <Sgeo> Did I seriously use : as a quote character?
14:59:50 <Sgeo> And why does mosh need so many ports?
14:59:54 <cheater__> kmc: what are magical qemulated chroots good for?
15:00:08 <ais523> in an attempt to cut down on the excessive number of saint's days
15:00:08 <kmc> US labor day is pretty decoupled from actual labor stuff for most people
15:00:11 <ais523> *saints' days
15:00:15 <kmc> but this may reflect my white-collar upbringing
15:00:23 <kmc> Sgeo: it doesn't need them all at once, just one per session
15:00:39 <ais523> oh, wait, no, that's late spring bank holiday
15:00:44 <kmc> mosh-server picks the first available port in that range
15:00:53 <ais523> first monday in may is a purely arbitrary one indeed
15:01:09 <kmc> so if you only need 5 concurrent sessions, you only need open 5 ports
15:01:25 <kmc> ais523: cool
15:01:33 <kmc> i think japan has some holidays like that too
15:01:41 <ais523> and was only added in 1978; surprisingly recent
15:02:05 <cheater__> kmc: why doesn't it reuse the port
15:02:16 <cheater__> kmc: that sort of sux doesn't it
15:02:39 <kmc> there is no persistent mosh daemon
15:02:54 <kmc> each session launches its own mosh-server process
15:03:10 <kmc> they could be different users running different versions of mosh-server they compiled separately
15:03:20 <kmc> and so the easiest way to get packets to the right place is for each session to use its own port
15:04:31 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Japan
15:05:33 <kmc> Massachusetts has one extra official public holiday compared to the US federal govt
15:05:40 <kmc> this year it fell on Tax Day
15:05:42 <kmc> great fun
15:16:04 <shachaf> Heegan
15:16:21 <shachaf> Isn't perf fun?
15:17:24 <ais523> kmc: holiday clashes are impossible in the UK
15:17:35 <ais523> this sometimes leads to Christmas being moved to dec 26, if it would naturally fall on a sunday
15:17:41 <ais523> (and thus boxing day moved to dec 27)
15:17:48 <ais523> although everyone celebrates it on dec 25 anyway
15:18:21 <shachaf> hais523
15:18:40 <ais523> -shachaf-
15:18:54 <shachaf> I'm not sure what *that* means.
15:19:02 <ais523> I didn't think you would be
15:19:07 <ais523> but it means hi, sort of
15:19:13 <kmc> shachaf: fun enough
15:19:19 <ais523> probably only elliott could get it, and that doesn't mean he /would/
15:19:34 <ais523> as it involves cross-referencing multiple inside mems
15:19:36 <ais523> *memes
15:19:36 <cheater__> kmc: that's not the simplest, it's just the laziest
15:19:54 <kmc> oh yeah cheater__?
15:20:00 <cheater__> imo simplest is for mosh to use a shared resource
15:20:26 <kmc> a shared resource installed by a sysadmin? that's a non-starter for a lot of our users
15:20:56 <cheater__> no, you can have the process instantiate one locally if it's not found system-wide
15:21:00 <kmc> a big selling point of mosh is that you can compile it in your homedir and use it right away without any administrative intervention
15:21:08 <kmc> cheater__: local for that user only?
15:21:11 <cheater__> yeah, that doesn't change
15:21:11 <cheater__> yes
15:21:18 <kmc> so you still have the problem of multiple ports
15:21:39 <kmc> and you've added significant complexity to make this agent relay packets around
15:21:39 <cheater__> so one user ends up using one port at most
15:21:40 <cheater__> and at the least, all users just use one port
15:21:43 <kmc> for what gain?
15:21:58 <cheater__> you only have the problem in a fairly stupid situation
15:22:27 <cheater__> one which happens but does not happen to often
15:22:33 <cheater__> so kmc, you never told me what those qemu'ed chroots were good for
15:22:43 <cheater__> can you have an arm chroot?
15:22:48 <kmc> what stupid situation?
15:22:49 <kmc> yeah cheater__
15:22:54 <cheater__> or a 32 bit chroot on a 64 bit system?
15:22:56 <cheater__> k
15:23:07 <kmc> you run a simple command or two and you get a chroot full of ARM binaries on an x86 Linux machine
15:23:11 <kmc> which automatically execute through qemu
15:23:12 <cheater__> the stupid situation is that there's no system-wide support for mosh
15:23:24 <cheater__> which only ever happens on multiuser systems
15:23:39 <cheater__> and let's be honest here, it's not like people do this sort of thing these days
15:23:39 <kmc> but they talk to your real kernel, not some emulated ARM machine
15:23:52 <cheater__> it's not like people run their BitchX from grex.org anymore
15:24:19 <cheater__> or try to hack the modified bsd kernel of cyberspace.org to be able to run 'drops
15:24:31 <kmc> as a mosh developer i'm really glad that Mosh doesn't have a persistent daemon or anything setuid / setgid or anything that runs as root
15:24:44 <cheater__> well you don't need to have a persistent daemon
15:24:46 <kmc> i'm reluctant to throw that away for the cause of saving a few UDP ports
15:24:53 <kmc> since there's 2^16 of them
15:24:56 <cheater__> you just have the first one that starts up handle everything
15:25:02 <cheater__> and persist until everything quits
15:25:10 <kmc> anyway I still don't see what problem this solves really
15:25:14 <kmc> it's certainly not the simplest solution
15:25:26 <cheater__> not having to open port ranges
15:25:34 <cheater__> ideally you just want a single port
15:25:37 <cheater__> huge port ranges are unmanageable
15:26:25 <kmc> schroot itself is also pretty slick
15:26:37 <kmc> it's used for the debian package build infrastructure, among other things
15:26:49 <kmc> a nice way to enter chroots and also have ephemeral copy-on-write clones of existing chroots
15:27:26 -!- augur has joined.
15:28:49 <kmc> cheater__ i don't see why you said "your solution is not simplest, just laziest" and then proceeded to describe a solution which is emphatically less simple, though it has certain advantages
15:29:03 <ais523> main advantage to a single port is that it's easier to firewall
15:29:10 <kmc> i guess in general the way engineers argue is they pick different definitions of the word "simple"
15:29:41 <cheater__> kmc: it's the simplest from the user's point of view
15:29:53 <cheater__> it's not the simplest from the developer's point of view
15:30:17 <kmc> it's better from the user's view, but arguably more complicated
15:30:27 <kmc> because you still need to explain about port ranges, in the multi-user case
15:30:39 <kmc> and you also need to explain about this extra daemon that stays running
15:30:49 <kmc> and about the unix socket or whatever it uses to talk to the mosh-servers
15:32:36 <kmc> i know corporate IT security doesn't like to open too many ports
15:33:02 <kmc> but is identifying a mosh session by a UDP port number really any worse than identifying it with a 16-bit number immediately inside the UDP packet?
15:33:18 <ais523> kmc: not beyond the firewall
15:33:33 <ais523> but configuring it correctly is awkward because many firewalls don't have obvious support for port ranges
15:33:57 <kmc> arguably the port number is better for security; it's easier to correlate port numbers with users and mosh-server processes
15:34:34 <kmc> i guess that's so
15:35:10 <kmc> my firewall config is just an iptables shell script and so i used a shell loop :)
15:35:16 <kmc> (though i think iptables also has range support)
15:43:12 -!- elliott has joined.
15:43:20 -!- elliott has quit (Changing host).
15:43:20 -!- elliott has joined.
15:46:12 <cheater__> multiple ports is just very impractical
15:46:21 <cheater__> and it's not like explaining my scheme is that difficult
15:47:39 <cheater__> "mosh will use a single port for all sessions if it can, but it might have to use more ports due to permissions. You can read about the exact scheme in [7]."
15:47:53 <cheater__> 99.999999999% of all people using it will not need to read [7]
15:48:29 <kmc> wow
15:48:42 <kmc> even if every person on earth is a Mosh user, only 7% of one person will need to read that link
15:50:08 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:55:29 -!- itidus21 has joined.
15:57:56 -!- itidus22 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
15:59:05 <kmc> anyway it's not impossible we will implement some kind of multiplexer
15:59:47 <kmc> i think what's more likely is that we'll use hole punching techniques (as do Skype and many other applications) to make both directions of UDP traffic look "outgoing" to firewalls
16:01:51 <cheater__> kmc: i like ur math
16:05:06 <cheater__> kmc: do you think there's an actual real reason to use quemu chroots?
16:05:07 <cheater__> i'm thinking, the one thing i am missing with linuxes right now is the ability to migrate a 32 bit system to 64 bit
16:05:07 <cheater__> it really really sucks there isn't anything to do it
16:05:08 <cheater__> so maybe this sort of thing is necessary
16:07:03 <kmc> i used it for testing and debugging the ARM build of Mosh
16:07:08 <kmc> on my amd64 desktop
16:07:20 <kmc> this was much more pleasant than using a whole system emulated arm system
16:07:23 <kmc> which i have also done
16:07:49 <kmc> qemu is not necessary for running 32-bit binaries on 64-bit kernel of the same architecture family, usually
16:08:29 <kmc> disabling 32-bit compat on a multi-user system is a savvy security move
16:08:34 <kmc> but i don't think many people do it
16:11:19 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
16:12:16 <AnotherTest> hello
16:12:28 <cheater__> yeah but still, you can't migrate 32 bit to 64 bit
16:12:28 <cheater__> at least that i know of
16:12:28 <cheater__> do you know of a way?
16:12:29 <cheater__> brb
16:13:01 <kmc> what do you mean by "migrate" exactly
16:14:09 -!- cheater__ has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat).
16:16:06 <qfr> http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3981354_460s.jpg oh really?
16:17:20 -!- cheater has joined.
16:17:48 <kmc> cheater: what do you mean by "migrate" exactly
16:18:14 <cheater> i have a computer with an OS which i installed with a 32 bit ubuntu dvd
16:18:26 <cheater> i want it to start using 64 bit versions of everything
16:35:56 <Sgeo> I'm a Cadaeic! I'm a Cadaeic! I'm a real Cadaeic!
16:37:29 <kmc> cheater: ok
16:37:34 <kmc> that's a package manager problem i guess
16:37:44 <kmc> i wonder if debian's new multiarch support helps
16:38:07 <kmc> i don't know if it has a way to "pivot" which binary is actually stored at /bin/ls or whatever
16:39:28 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
16:49:13 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
16:50:14 -!- cheater has joined.
17:10:20 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:12:07 -!- cheater has joined.
17:17:49 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
17:31:12 -!- ais523 has quit.
17:39:45 -!- cheater has joined.
18:01:17 -!- pikhq has joined.
18:04:12 -!- nortti has joined.
18:05:56 <nortti> Power plug of my computer fell off when I was updating slitaz. Now it doesn't want to boor
18:06:22 <nortti> *boot
18:06:43 <olsner> you may need to plug in the power again
18:09:47 <nortti> olsner: i have done that
18:10:37 <nortti> olsner: it boots to grub and starts loading and then it panics
18:11:30 <olsner> maybe you can ease it up against a wall, that's what you do with panicking horses apparently
18:13:45 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: brb).
18:13:58 <nortti> KERNEL panics
18:15:40 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18:19:21 -!- AnotherTest has left.
18:19:43 -!- cheater has joined.
18:23:59 -!- asiekierka has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:27:45 <Gregor> I almost want to `addquote <nortti> Power plug of my computer fell off when I was updating slitaz. Now it doesn't want to boot <olsner> you may need to plug in the power again
18:28:21 <nortti> Why only almost?
18:28:40 <Gregor> It's too obvious. It's not an especially #esoteric joke.
18:38:13 <oklopol> we have high standards
18:45:48 -!- elliott has joined.
18:46:15 -!- zzo38 has joined.
18:53:49 <elliott> 2:43
18:53:50 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 6 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
18:55:58 <Gregor> Popular guy.
18:56:10 <Gregor> But ten minutes off.
18:56:34 <elliott> ten minutes and many hours
18:57:10 <Gregor> If we assume PM, you were in fact only ten minutes off for me.
18:58:12 <elliott> Sure thing, American.
18:58:50 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
18:59:05 <shachaf> hi elliott
19:06:55 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
19:06:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:28:01 <olsner> hmm, my ability to differentiate the words terrific and terrible is deteriorating
19:28:58 -!- Ngevd has joined.
19:28:59 <elliott> That's just terrifible.
19:29:25 <Ngevd> Hello
19:29:26 <olsner> terrifblic
19:30:00 <elliott> Ngevd: Hi!
19:30:04 <olsner> Terry Feeble
19:30:05 <elliott> Ngevd: How's your roguelike?
19:30:10 <Ngevd> elliott, stuck!
19:30:21 <elliott> Ngevd: :''(
19:30:34 <Ngevd> I haven't worked out how to simulateneously render something and input characters!
19:30:43 <elliott> Ngevd: You don't.
19:30:48 <elliott> You render the screen, and then you wait for character input.
19:30:51 <Ngevd> Well, yeah
19:30:52 <elliott> Rinse, wash, repeat.
19:31:13 <olsner> use threads, and you can also simultaneously crash terrifibly unreliably
19:31:15 <elliott> (You probably want to use a terminal library like one of the curses bindings or vty if you're not.)
19:31:26 <Ngevd> Yeah, I'll look into that
19:31:32 <Ngevd> I DO MANY THINGS NOW
19:31:34 <Ngevd> Hahahah
19:31:44 -!- cheater has joined.
19:31:52 <elliott> (Note that some of the curses bindings are awful.)
19:31:53 <Ngevd> Including what is now the second-best chess game for the 0x10c CPU
19:32:12 <elliott> (vty might be the best option, even if it is kind of gross.)
19:33:29 <oklopol> sooooo
19:33:42 <oklopol> i had this girlfriend who lived in kuopio and was going to move to turku
19:33:52 <oklopol> and now i have this girlfriend who lived in turku and moved to kuopio
19:33:58 <oklopol> and they are fucking neighbors
19:34:23 <oklopol> they don't know each other, and have no links.
19:34:28 <Ngevd> Are you the neighbors?
19:34:34 <olsner> oklopol: you are a link
19:34:42 <olsner> oklopol: introduce them
19:35:02 <oklopol> "hello ex, this is why i left you"
19:35:33 <oklopol> i just wanted to drive 800km to show you.
19:36:03 <olsner> then they will knife-fight to the death (as all finns do) and you will take the winner
19:36:20 <elliott> olsner: Are you sure you weren't born Finnish?
19:36:31 <olsner> you don't have to drive all the way though, you can just tell them "hey, she's your neighbor now!"
19:36:32 <Lumpio-> Nothing wrong with some finnish
19:36:38 <Lumpio-> ( ̄ー ̄)
19:37:03 <elliott> Finns use ridiculous smilies like ( ̄ー ̄).
19:37:05 <olsner> elliott: yes
19:37:15 <elliott> olsner: Are you sure?
19:37:24 <olsner> elliott: yes
19:37:29 <elliott> olsner: Are you sure?
19:37:32 <olsner> elliott: yes
19:37:33 <oklopol> olsner: i'm going there this weekend. i'm sure this will be fun.
19:37:41 <elliott> olsner: Are you sure?
19:37:43 <olsner> elliott: yes
19:37:47 <elliott> olsner: Are you sure?
19:37:47 <nortti> elliott: that is aproximaltely how out face looks like
19:38:10 <elliott> olsner: Aren't you sure?
19:38:22 <olsner> elliott: I am sure
19:38:25 <elliott> olsner: Arse you sure?
19:38:31 <Ngevd> elliott, you're like that person in that book I'm reading by that person who Phantom_Hoover is disappointed by his appearance due to it not being recursive enough
19:38:32 <olsner> elliott: arse you
19:39:02 <elliott> Ngevd: Is that the book I think it is?
19:39:32 <Ngevd> elliott, that would depend on which book you think it is.
19:39:36 <Ngevd> But probably.
19:39:48 <elliott> I will just leave http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Chris_Pressey#G.C3.B6del.2C_Escher.2C_Bach:_An_Eternal_Golden_Braid here.
19:39:52 <Ngevd> Are you thinking of The Stainless Steel Rat's Revenge?
19:40:09 <elliott> HOW DID YOU GUESS
19:40:34 <Ngevd> Three things:
19:40:40 <Ngevd> One, you live in my local area
19:40:46 <Ngevd> Two, you have EYES EVERYWHERE
19:40:57 <Ngevd> Three, I am currently reading The Stainless Steel Rat's Revenge
19:41:08 <elliott> I'm going to have to move away from Ngevd. :'(
19:41:27 * elliott tries to figure out where the recursion comes in.
19:42:28 <olsner> next to the review of wolfram's book, I just can't figure out what level of sarcasm/irony/parody that GEB review is written with
19:43:07 <elliott> Has anyone ever ended a serious statement with "!!1!"?
19:43:32 <olsner> yes, I'm sure someone has
19:44:04 <olsner> err, I mean
19:44:08 <elliott> Ah yes, that's what Chris thought of the Dragon Book: "The classic, borderline-incomprehensible book on compiler construction".
19:44:18 <olsner> Has anyone ever ended a retorical question with?
19:44:43 -!- azaq23 has joined.
19:44:44 <olsner> pluss speling
19:44:46 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:44:51 -!- azaq23 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded).
19:44:54 <elliott> coppro: Who's Noé Rubinstein?
19:44:58 <elliott> Oh.
19:45:05 -!- Ngevd has joined.
19:45:13 <elliott> Never mind, Gmail answered my question first.
19:45:30 -!- azaq23 has joined.
19:47:05 <Ngevd> "The robot stood as stolid as a statue"
19:47:08 <Ngevd> STOLID
19:47:15 <Ngevd> STOLID
19:47:34 <Ngevd> o_O
19:47:37 <Ngevd> O_o
19:47:40 <elliott> hi
19:47:54 <Ngevd> Harry Harrison really needs a better editor
19:48:10 <elliott> hi
19:48:36 <Ngevd> hi
19:48:45 <elliott> no
19:48:49 <olsner> Ngevd: stolid is a word that can be used in a sentence just like that
19:49:07 <elliott> terrifibly stolid
19:49:13 <olsner> it even makes sense, although statues aren't necessarily stolid
19:49:21 <olsner> good statues probably aren't
19:49:22 <Ngevd> It's a silly word
19:49:34 <Ngevd> stilly
19:49:50 <olsner> terrifibly stillily stolid
19:50:33 <elliott> Ngevd: I'm bored. You should play Crawl so I can watch and laugh.
19:51:06 <Ngevd> elliott, I'm currently using Windows for stilly and friviltous treasons
19:51:12 <elliott> Ngevd: Do you have PuTTY?
19:51:29 <Ngevd> Can you stream with PuTTY?
19:51:34 <Ngevd> I thought it could only recieve
19:51:37 <elliott> Yes, you play on the server.
19:51:44 <Ngevd> Aaaah
19:51:47 <elliott> Which then streams it for you (and also lets people send messages).
19:51:55 <elliott> (Mostly "Squarelos: hi".)
19:52:06 <Ngevd> Okay, running PuTTY
19:52:13 <Ngevd> What settings?
19:52:13 <elliott> crawl.develz.org, port 345
19:52:14 <elliott> Telnet
19:52:26 <olsner> "stream"?
19:52:33 <elliott> olsner: Termcast style.
19:52:36 <Ngevd> Gotcha
19:53:09 <Ngevd> Playing
19:53:32 <elliott> Don't you dare be an elf.
19:54:13 <elliott> Don't be a vamp.
19:54:30 <Ngevd> It's quite slow?
19:54:35 <elliott> What is?
19:54:38 <Ngevd> The lag
19:54:43 <olsner> basically you telnet to it and it appears in your terminal? sort of like how telnet works?
19:54:45 <elliott> It's sometimes a bit laggy. But then it isn't.
19:54:50 <elliott> olsner: wat
19:55:09 <olsner> elliott: I am confuse
19:55:21 <elliott> olsner: It lets other people watch.
19:55:34 <elliott> Ngevd: Go for Minotaur or Troll or something.
19:55:35 -!- Ngevd has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:55:43 <elliott> If you want something overpowered enough to let you survive on pure luck. :p
19:55:49 <elliott> TANEEEEEEB
19:56:00 -!- Ngevd has joined.
19:56:07 <elliott> Ngevd: Go for Minotaur or Troll or something.
19:56:10 <elliott> If you want something overpowered enough to let you survive on pure luck. :p
19:56:38 <elliott> Fighter or Berserker would complete the overpowered-melee-fighter combo.
19:56:46 <elliott> Axe.
19:57:02 <elliott> Ngevd: You know about vikeys, right?
19:57:06 <Ngevd> No?
19:57:15 <elliott> Don't use the arrow keys, you'll die, because you can't do diagonals.
19:57:22 <elliott> If you have a number pad you can use that.
19:57:26 <elliott> Otherwise it's hjkl/yubn to move.
19:57:36 <elliott> Also, the two more useful keys are o and tab.
19:57:39 <elliott> *most useful
19:58:13 <elliott> Ngevd: You should chop that corpse.
19:58:43 <elliott> Oh, wait.
19:58:45 <elliott> It's a Kobold corpse.
19:58:55 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:00:12 <elliott> (You might want to adjust the skills you're training by pressing m.)
20:00:24 <elliott> (Turning off everything but axes would be reasonable.)
20:00:51 <elliott> Oh, press / to go manual.
20:00:53 <elliott> Or it won't really work.
20:01:02 <elliott> Crawl's skills settings are kind of complicated.
20:01:42 <elliott> Ngevd: You're still using the arrow keys, aren't you. :(
20:02:50 <Ngevd> No
20:02:57 <Ngevd> I just forget about diagonals
20:03:11 <elliott> Ngevd: Did you leave that scroll there on the previous level?
20:03:15 <elliott> (Ctrl+F scroll <return> to check.)
20:03:28 <elliott> Try a. to go back there and pick it up.
20:03:40 <oerjan> hm it appears that DMM has filled up the LMOO queue by drawing other other people
20:03:40 <elliott> It'll walk for you.
20:03:44 <oerjan> 's suggestions
20:03:54 <elliott> (The advantage of using o rather than walking around manually, apart from being less tedious, is that it makes sure you don't miss picking anything up>0
20:03:56 <elliott> *up.)
20:04:50 <elliott> You should chop corpses after killing them with "c", unless they show up as green text. (So you can eat them when you get hungry.)
20:05:39 <elliott> Ngevd: Stop.
20:05:41 <elliott> Press Ctrl+P.
20:05:52 <elliott> Eating is... a bad idea when you're in combat.
20:06:29 <elliott> 21:05 <Gretell> Taneb the Shield-Bearer (L3 MiFi), blasted by Sigmund (magic dart) in D:3, with 91 points after 1086 turns and 0:08:54.
20:06:38 <elliott> go team sigmund
20:13:07 <Ngevd> Well, neither Vty nor hscurses want to install
20:18:52 <elliott> What errors?
20:18:56 <elliott> vty should be easier to install.
20:19:26 <nortti> Ngevd: what are you trying to do?
20:20:02 <Ngevd> Write a roguelike
20:21:10 <Ngevd> elliott, http://hpaste.org/68200
20:21:19 <elliott> Ah.
20:21:23 <elliott> That's Windows for you.
20:21:42 <elliott> I think there might be a curses binding on Hackage that works with PDCurses. Maybe.
20:22:09 <elliott> Oh, it's http://hackage.haskell.org/package/nanocurses. But that package has been broken for years.
20:25:49 <zzo38> If you are writiing a roguelike, a few things to consider are: * Separate front-end and back-end * PC/NPC unification * If using Haskell, the "extensible-data" package
20:29:05 <nortti> http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2010/05/18/lets-use-a-methaphor-charlie-and-his-car/
20:30:48 <elliott> Challenge: Write introductory paragraph that can start no blog post of value. Submission: "Few weeks ago I posted a rant about stupid people not knowing how to internet. Most of the readers could relate, but some folks criticized me for being elitist. I’m pretty sure these people were just trolling but I guess they were successful enough to make me want to revisit this post."
20:32:02 <elliott> Ngevd: Anyway, you could just...
20:32:05 <elliott> Ngevd: I dunno, use SDL or something.
20:32:14 <elliott> Or write it in Python, that has libtcod bindings. :p
20:48:49 <elliott> "Turn: 167115944"
20:48:53 <elliott> that's a many turn
20:54:29 <Ngevd> I was using ansi-terminal, but input is dodhy?
20:55:55 <elliott> ansi-terminal can't do the kind of things you'd want.
20:56:08 <elliott> I suppose you could just redraw the entire screen each time... :p
20:57:15 <olsner> elliott: thanks, you just made me not read nortti's link
20:57:35 <elliott> olsner: But now you've missed out. :(
20:57:54 <Ngevd> No he didn't
20:57:58 <Ngevd> That blog is awful
20:58:22 <elliott> You can miss out on awful things, too!
20:58:25 <nortti> Ngevd: why do you think so
20:58:48 <Ngevd> Because Charlie is an awful name!
20:59:06 <elliott> Ngevd: Did you know that every teenager consumes porn?
20:59:07 <elliott> http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2012/05/02/is-your-teen-browsing-the-pr0n/
20:59:07 <olsner> now I just need to learn how to internet, to make sure that blog poster doesn't make fun of me
20:59:10 <elliott> CHECKMATE ASEXUALS
20:59:16 -!- blacksun1 has joined.
20:59:22 <elliott> Ngevd's cover is blast wide open.
20:59:23 <Ngevd> elliott, FSVO porn
20:59:25 <elliott> `welcome blacksun1
20:59:29 <HackEgo> blacksun1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:00:07 <Ngevd> I occasionally have disturbing deviantArt binges
21:00:19 -!- blacksun1 has quit (Client Quit).
21:00:25 <elliott> TELL US NO MORE
21:07:01 <Ngevd> Well, goodnight
21:07:03 -!- Ngevd has quit (Quit: Goodbye).
21:14:18 <pikhq_> Grawr
21:26:26 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti).
21:32:44 -!- itidus20 has joined.
21:35:53 -!- itidus21 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
22:06:20 -!- Patashu has joined.
22:10:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:38:25 <Gregor> <Ngevd> I occasionally have disturbing deviantArt binges <elliott> TELL US NO MORE
22:38:46 <Gregor> Welp, time to look up "pony" on Deviant Art and see how many pages I have to go through 'til I get to pony porn.
22:38:48 <Gregor> My guess: 0
22:39:50 <elliott> Gregor: That's some cover you have there.
22:39:59 <elliott> How long have you been waiting for a tangentially-related IRC discussion to reply to with that?
22:40:31 <Lumpio-> ( ゚∀゚)
22:40:47 <Gregor> I was going to say that right now regardless, it was merely happy happenstance that it vaguely fit a previous conversation.
22:41:34 <elliott> Shameless as ever, I see.
22:48:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
22:49:18 <Gregor> <Lumpio-> ( ゚∀゚) // I honestly can't make heads or tails of this smiley.
22:49:25 <Gregor> Is it smiling? Freaked out? A bird?
22:49:42 <Lumpio-> Really?
22:49:57 <Lumpio-> What about (  ゚,_ゝ゚)
22:50:24 <elliott> It looks like the O RLY owl to me.
22:50:26 <elliott> I mean, the previous one.
22:50:27 <Gregor> That's pretty understandable.
22:50:42 <Lumpio-> What about (ノ`Д´)ノ彡┻━┻
22:50:45 -!- variable has changed nick to const.
22:52:16 <Lumpio-> http://shoppies-img.jp/res_items3/746/7465945/PT_110601202610190.jpg
22:52:20 <Lumpio-> Not an owl
22:52:25 <elliott> Definitely an owl.
22:52:35 <Lumpio-> I guess an exaggerated version of ( °▽°)
22:52:36 <elliott> My system's rendering of it is better.
22:52:37 <Lumpio-> If you must
22:52:43 <elliott> The dors are wider than just the dot, and to the left of the character.
22:52:51 <elliott> *dots
22:52:57 * elliott screenshots.
22:53:06 <elliott> http://ompldr.org/vZG51cA
22:53:21 <Lumpio-> Yeah that's a pretty odd rendering
22:53:30 <Lumpio-> They're not dots, they're degree signs.
22:53:41 <elliott> Degree signs are just dots with ego.
22:53:43 <Lumpio-> They're supposed to be circles.
22:53:50 <elliott> They are circles.
22:53:53 <elliott> Just small circles.
22:53:56 <Lumpio-> ...with no fill
22:53:58 <Lumpio-> Just a stroke
22:54:09 <elliott> They turn into hollow circles when I increase the font size.
22:54:17 <Lumpio-> There you go
22:54:19 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:54:21 <elliott> I already knew that.
22:54:23 <Lumpio-> Just leave it on the higher setting from now on
22:54:27 <Lumpio-> So you can see my °
22:54:30 <elliott> It's hard to display the hollowness without distorting the sizes at a font size like that.
22:54:38 <elliott> Lumpio-: I already interpreted it as a circle.
22:54:49 <elliott> Lumpio-: Also, that is a different character.
22:54:54 <Lumpio-> Maybe you should change fonts
22:54:57 <elliott> That one renders as larger and more hollow here.
22:55:34 <Lumpio-> hm?
22:55:42 <Lumpio-> ゚°
22:55:44 <elliott> http://ompldr.org/vZG51cQ Compare your original smiley to your "So you can see my" line.
22:55:44 <Lumpio-> oo, you're right
22:55:59 <Lumpio-> It's not a degree sign, it's a half-width handakuten mark
22:56:19 <elliott> IN YR FACE
22:56:48 <Lumpio-> (Which should also preferably be a circle, mind you)
22:57:05 <elliott> It is a circle, just a small one.
22:57:05 <Lumpio-> ugh, mozc's standard dictionary uses a full-width handakuten mark for those
22:57:22 <Lumpio-> Yeah but the proportions are off.
22:57:23 <elliott> Japanese text isn't really well-suited to this font size on displays with standard pixels per inch.
22:57:43 <elliott> (Even though this display has an above-average PPI.)
22:57:45 <Lumpio-> My font size is the same or smaller tbh
22:57:53 <Lumpio-> And it's quite legible.
22:58:00 <elliott> It would probably be better at this size with more hinting.
22:58:12 <Lumpio-> Yeah, full hinting is a must.
22:58:18 <elliott> But I don't use Japanese on IRC, so :p
22:58:22 <Lumpio-> Otherwise it's just black blobs.
22:58:41 <elliott> OS X never hints afaik.
22:58:57 <Lumpio-> mm
22:59:01 <Lumpio-> Enjoy your blobs then I guess
22:59:09 <Lumpio-> Full hinting + stroke elimination is a must for small text
22:59:47 <Lumpio-> On my resolution even 書 has enough horizontal lines to require stroke elimination
22:59:51 <Lumpio-> er, font size
23:00:00 <elliott> If there's any justice, increasing PPI will obsolete that (and antialiasing) soon enough.
23:00:02 <elliott> (There isn't any justice, though.)
23:00:14 <elliott> (Especially since most OSes are woefully badly-equipped to handle larger PPIs.)
23:00:28 <Lumpio-> (Let me guess, "except OSX")
23:00:36 <elliott> No, OS X is terrible at it.
23:00:39 * elliott doesn't usually use OS X.
23:00:44 <Lumpio-> ¬u¬
23:00:51 <elliott> OS X just assumes everything is 100 PPI and uses bitmap images for most things.
23:01:00 <Lumpio-> Anyways PPI hasn't increased on your usual laptop displays for years
23:01:12 <Lumpio-> Consumers seem to be content with "full HD"
23:01:29 <Lumpio-> Hard to find displays with better resolution.
23:01:48 <pikhq_> I blame Windows.
23:02:05 <elliott> This display is ~128 PPI, which is nice. (1440x900 at 13")
23:02:07 <Lumpio-> Actually I doubt most desktop displays go higher than that either.
23:02:20 <pikhq_> 96 DPI is still standard. Alas.
23:02:32 <elliott> My other laptop is the same size but 1366x768, which is smaller than I would like.
23:02:47 <Lumpio-> LVDS1 connected 1440x900+1920+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 367mm x 229mm
23:03:02 <Lumpio-> I wonder if xrandr can calculate DPI for me, too lazy to
23:03:33 <elliott> "578 characters were initially added, though some characters unsuitable for names such as 怨 (grudge, resent), 痔 (haemorrhoids) and 屍 (corpse) were removed as a result of public feedback."
23:03:50 <elliott> You mean I can't call my kid Grudge Haemorrhoidscorpse?
23:04:07 <elliott> So much for free speech. :(
23:04:53 <Lumpio-> I don't think that would go through in most countries...
23:04:54 <pikhq_> elliott: You still can.
23:05:13 <pikhq_> It just can't be 痔屍 怨.
23:05:20 <pikhq_> You'll have to spell it out.
23:06:20 <pikhq_> グラッジ ヘモロイヅコープす morelike
23:07:08 <Lumpio-> 倉地 兵諸井戸幸符巣
23:07:16 <Lumpio-> there
23:07:31 <elliott> 恨みの痔の死体
23:07:36 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: Nonono. Kuraji HEMOROIDOKOUPUSU
23:07:41 <Lumpio-> Yeah, google translate doesn't do it justice
23:07:41 <elliott> "Piles of corpses of resentment"
23:07:47 <elliott> Well, that's my new metal album name.
23:07:53 <Lumpio-> pikhq_: ...I capitalize randomly because Japan doesn't have capitalization.
23:08:14 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:19 <elliott> 悪の宇宙へようこそハローお名前とご住所を記入してください。
23:08:30 <Lumpio-> pikhq_: ...I capitalize randomly because Japan doesn't have capitalization.
23:08:34 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:36 <Lumpio-> pikhq_: ...I capitalize randomly because Japan doesn't have capitalization.
23:08:37 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:37 <elliott> 悪の宇宙へようこそハローお名前とご住所を記入してください。
23:08:39 <Lumpio-> No.
23:08:40 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:43 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:43 <Lumpio-> No.
23:08:46 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:49 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:51 <Lumpio-> I reject your reality and substitute my own.
23:08:52 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:55 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:08:58 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:09:01 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:09:04 <Gregor> ...
23:09:04 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:09:07 <pikhq_> Lumpio-: When you romanise names, if you do all-caps, the bit in all-caps is a last name.
23:09:11 <Lumpio-> elliott: "Welcome to the space of evil, hello. Please write down your name and address"?
23:09:18 <elliott> Lumpio-: Close enough.
23:09:19 <elliott> 音声学アルカトラズは、オステオパシーの解釈の赦免をバカ-うねる。
23:09:30 <Lumpio-> o_Ô
23:09:45 <Lumpio-> I have no idea what 赦免 is
23:09:51 <elliott> "Phonetics Alcatraz osteopathic moron-undulate exegesis pardoning."
23:09:54 <Lumpio-> Ah.
23:10:00 <elliott> Through the filter of GOOGLE.
23:11:05 <Lumpio-> Phonetics Alcatraz stupid-twist the pardon of the analysis of osteopathy
23:11:10 <Lumpio-> Is what I'd have guessed.
23:11:20 <zzo38> pikhq_:That is what I eould have say. You have to use kana, only that specific kanji disallow
23:11:37 <elliott> Piles of Corpses of Resentment, by The Pardon of the Analysis of Osteopathy
23:12:58 <Lumpio-> ( ´ー`)
23:13:18 <elliott> You have to admit, it's catchy.
23:14:55 -!- cheater has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:17:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:18:41 -!- augur has joined.
23:18:44 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:26:57 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , Gmail: Patashu0@gmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .).
23:27:05 -!- Patashu has joined.
←2012-05-06 2012-05-07 2012-05-08→ ↑2012 ↑all