←2012-05-12 2012-05-13 2012-05-14→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:31:36 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbXfyH0rt3M
00:31:37 <Sgeo> <3
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00:49:52 <xander345> hello
00:50:43 <ais523> rehi
00:50:57 <xander345> what does that mean?
00:51:03 <ais523> hi again
00:51:11 <xander345> oh i get it
00:51:48 <xander345> i wanted to see if the owner of esolangs wanted to do a link exchagen with http://codecompiler.info
00:52:44 <ais523> elliott: you're still here, right?
00:53:02 <elliott> yep
00:53:10 <elliott> xander345: can you specify what you mean by link exchange exactly?
00:54:00 <xander345> well because i'm adding support for more and more esolangs on codecompiler we could link to each others site as both of our visitors care about esolangs
00:54:26 <elliott> hmm, wouldn't linking the compiler from the pages of the languages it supports be more reasonable?
00:55:08 <xander345> yeh that would be good
00:56:01 <xander345> it only does about 5 right now but it's really easy to add more so we can have more links with each other
01:01:37 <elliott> well, anybody can add relevant external links to pages on the wiki...
01:03:24 <xander345> are they dofollow and would you like me to put a link esolangs.org on codecompiler.info ?
01:05:07 <ais523> mediawiki nofollows links to avoid spamming
01:06:39 <elliott> and the whole of esolangs.org runs on MediaWiki
01:08:11 <elliott> xander345: how many visitors (or at least hits) does your site get a month, anyway? esolangs.org is relatively high-traffic (for a small site, at least)
01:10:51 <xander345> it was getting about 500 a day when it worked but now that it's been on a sever for 2 months where it doesn't actually work the traffic has droped but i'm getting a vps for it in the next few days and it should get backup and i'm adding a register system where you get to complie more per day if you refer more people
01:11:39 <elliott> 500 visitors or hits?
01:13:53 <xander345> visitors per day
01:14:13 <xander345> if hits aren't visitors what are they? i always though they were the same as visitors
01:14:24 <elliott> hits are individual page loads; visitors are usually counted by unique IPs
01:14:28 <elliott> hits are a lot easier to count
01:14:58 <elliott> I just checked; esolangs.org gets about 23000-26000 hits per day; it'll be trickier to get the number of visits, but I'll try and write an awk script to do it...
01:17:34 <elliott> OK, we get about 1250-1380 visitors per day
01:18:45 <xander345> thats pretty good
01:20:08 <xander345> i'll put codecompiler links in all the languages it supports and add one in the navigation bar
01:20:17 <elliott> which navigation bar?
01:21:24 <xander345> the one where it says Home Esolangs Codepanel.net About Us Login / Register
01:21:35 <shachaf> kmc: Did you ever get that Stripe shirt?
01:21:50 <elliott> ah
01:23:02 <elliott> the wiki already has some links to your site, actually
01:23:11 <elliott> I suspect there might be quite a lot of overlap between your visitors and our visitors, really
01:23:24 <elliott> where are you getting the visitor count statistic from?
01:23:36 <elliott> mine is from the nginx access logs with duplicate IPs removed
01:25:34 <elliott> anyway, I think removing the nofollow (which I'm not entirely sure how to do, anyway, and which would require modifying LocalSettings.php) in return for visitors might count as an ad, which I cannot add to the site
01:27:52 <elliott> xander345: hmm, codecompiler.info fails to compile the cell test in http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/tests.b
01:28:01 <elliott> I'm not sure what the problem is; perhaps because I didn't select an OS? when I do that, the esolangs list disappears
01:29:07 <xander345> yeh it's because i'm getting a new server in a few days so until then nothing will compiler
01:29:13 <xander345> *compile
01:32:35 <elliott> xander345: out of curiosity, what sandboxing are you using?
01:34:23 <xander345> it doesn't need one because it doesn't actually run any of the programs, people have uploaded virus and scripts and it compiles them and nothing else happens, everybody was telling me they could take it down easily but they were ALL wrong
01:34:47 <xander345> i do not let anybody understand how the site works
01:35:21 <elliott> well, you support D; D supports running code at compile time
01:35:28 <elliott> and security through obscurity is generally considered a bad idea
01:36:29 <xander345> D doesn't work yet
01:36:42 <elliott> ok, but when it does... :)
01:37:27 <xander345> codecompiler controls how it is compiled all the users controls is what is in the file
01:37:48 <elliott> right: D lets you run code at compile-time
01:37:50 <elliott> with its template stuff
01:37:55 <elliott> just by writing a code file
01:39:15 <xander345> thats why i've not include D yet
01:39:31 <xander345> i'm going to put this in: http://php.net/manual/en/runkit.sandbox.php before re-release
01:39:48 <elliott> that just sandboxes PHP itself, not any process it runs
01:39:58 <elliott> you'll probably want UMLBox or a virtual machine for the latter
01:40:07 <elliott> (UMLBox is what our EgoBot and HackEgo bots, which allow execution of arbitrary code, work)
01:40:09 <elliott> erm
01:40:11 <elliott> (UMLBox is what our EgoBot and HackEgo bots, which allow execution of arbitrary code, use)
01:42:03 <xander345> how do i use that from php?
01:42:47 <elliott> it's a standalone program, so probably use whatever mechanism you currently use to call the compilers
01:42:48 <elliott> https://bitbucket.org/GregorR/umlbox
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01:46:57 <elliott> xander345: Anyway, if you'd like to get nofollow removed from links, bring it up on the community portal's talk page to see what the community thinks; I would be breaking trust of several people if I were to do it out of my own volition rather than the community's.
01:47:29 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Community_portal
01:47:46 <xander345> i went to esolangs and saw that they were all dofollow links anyway
01:48:00 <elliott> hmm, they're not
01:48:05 <elliott> internal links are
01:48:08 <elliott> external links aren't: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/db/">
01:54:05 <xander345> damn
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02:16:37 <elliott> there's that solved
02:18:17 <ais523> temporarily, at least
02:18:40 <ais523> hmm, have I spoken in here about my love of people sequence-breaking live-action gameshows? it isn't really the right channel…
02:20:46 <Gregor> How could there be a better channel?
02:21:00 <Gregor> Although I wonder what game shows can be sequence-broken ...
02:21:10 <Gregor> (I accidentally sequence-broke Portal 2 and caused a bizarre plot hole in the process!)
02:22:13 <ais523> Gregor: typically action ones where the puzzle is basically "get from A to B" or "starting at A get item X" and there's a bunch of obstacles that are meant to be combined creatively to solve the problem
02:22:47 <ais523> the sequence breaks normally involve holding onto things you weren't intended to hold on (one I saw today involved hooks on the ceiling that you were meant to hang a walkway from, instead the contestant just held onto the hooks and swung across the ceilng)
02:23:10 <ais523> or alternatively, gaining more height than expected (reaching things you weren't expected to reach by jumping, or by standing on the shoulders of a partner rather than sitting on them)
02:24:18 <ais523> I'm surprised nobody's beaten one of the puzzles where you're meant to retrieve a code to unlock something by brute-forcing the code
02:24:30 <ais523> it seems doable if you recover a few digits but not all of them
02:25:01 <coppro> depending on the way the game is presented, it may not be doable
02:25:07 <ais523> oh, of course
02:25:14 <coppro> since it may be seen as a rules violation
02:25:16 <ais523> it's pretty rare, and typically fixed in future runnings of the show
02:25:28 <ais523> I like shows which don't penalise people for unintended solutions
02:25:50 <ais523> although you're right, the show's producers could arbitrarily forbid things if they liked
02:26:08 <ais523> (that's particularly obnoxious in the UK version of Gladiators (the US version is known as American Gladiators in the US))
02:26:20 <coppro> the question I would say comes down to whether failure to follow instructions is a violation
02:26:26 <ais523> a whole load of people getting disqualified for not going about the events the exact way they were supposed to
02:26:39 <coppro> like in Survivor, the challenges are described as "do X, then Y, then the first person to do Z wins"
02:26:47 <ais523> well, in the cases I was talking about, there weren't explicit instructions, you were meant to figure it out
02:26:52 <coppro> oh, that's bad
02:27:07 <coppro> it could be interpreted as either "you must do X and Y and then Z" or "you must do Z. X and Y are the suggested and intented means."
02:27:24 <coppro> you definitely should not have invisible rules
02:27:38 <ais523> oh, in the cases where sequence-breaking was allowed
02:27:42 <ais523> not the cases where it was forbidden
02:28:19 <coppro> oh I see
02:28:21 <coppro> nevermind
02:28:33 <coppro> although my comment about Survivor's instructions stands. Are they rules or suggestions?
02:28:54 <ais523> I don't know
02:29:05 <coppro> watching closely tends to indicate they are rules, but they don't show that much on TV
02:29:08 <ais523> I haven't really watched Survivor much, btw; it's not very popular in the UK so doesn't get shown much
02:29:28 <ais523> it was shown more in Canada, but French subtitles really throw me off following English speech, for some reason
02:29:36 <coppro> oh right, Ottawa
02:30:08 <ais523> do the TV channels vary in language composition from province to province/city to city?
02:30:21 <ais523> it seems unlikely that the TV in Ottawa is significantly different to the rest of Ontario
02:30:23 <ais523> but perhaps it is
02:30:42 <ais523> there weren't French subtitles on everything, just on some things (and some things were in French outright)
02:31:36 <coppro> Yeah, it does.
02:32:02 <coppro> French shows and even subtitles are quite rare elsewhere.
02:32:28 <coppro> but the National Capital Region is definitely one of the most bilingual areas of the country
02:32:43 <coppro> Montreal and most of New Brunswick being the others
02:32:49 <ais523> it is really incredibly bilingual
02:33:02 <coppro> having not visited them all, I can't say which is most
02:33:16 <ais523> it's kind-of funny, really, given that pretty much everyone there knows both English /and/ French it's not quite clear how they generally choose to communicate
02:33:19 <coppro> but certainly all the public service is bilingual, and Ottawa is largely public service
02:33:24 <ais523> presumably the first person to speak picks a language and other people go with it
02:33:27 <coppro> yeah
02:33:33 <coppro> or else you alternate
02:33:44 <ais523> I'm surprised that the languages haven't got mixed together there
02:33:53 <ais523> people using French words in English sentences, etc
02:33:57 <coppro> it's an interesting study in Parliament of the various approaches to speaking
02:34:06 <ais523> or perhaps they have, just didn't to me because I only spoke in English
02:34:13 <coppro> I don't think so as much
02:34:30 <ais523> (and my British accent probably betrayed the fact that I don't actually know much French)
02:34:32 <coppro> A lot of the bilingualism is for work, not cultural, reasons
02:34:44 <Gregor> I hate when it's 10:30 and I realize I didn't eat dinner X_X
02:34:56 <coppro> There are some English loanwords in Québecois French, but not that many the other way
02:35:07 <coppro> ("c'est ok" is a particularly egregious one)
02:35:08 <ais523> Gregor: am or pm? presumably pm, if you're talking about now
02:35:13 <ais523> coppro: ouch!
02:35:27 <coppro> it's even pronounced "kay" rather than "kah"
02:35:39 <ais523> also, I like the way you typed the é but not the ç
02:35:51 <coppro> forgot about the cedilla there :)
02:36:16 <ais523> do you have a ç key on your keyboard?
02:37:01 <coppro> No, I use dead keys
02:37:04 <coppro> ç
02:37:08 <ais523> (meanwhile, I conclude that Canada is actually too large for my mind to comprehend)
02:37:16 <coppro> Canada is /weird/
02:37:19 <ais523> (to be fair, even the UK is close to large enough for that)
02:37:49 <ais523> (and it isn't very large)
02:39:20 <Gregor> <ais523> Gregor: am or pm? presumably pm, if you're talking about now // yes, PM
02:41:01 <ais523> Gregor: and by "dinner" you mean evening meal?
02:42:36 * ais523 wonders how large Ottawa is compared to, say, London
02:42:40 <ais523> I imagine it's smaller, but am not sure
02:43:51 <coppro> ais523: in Parliament, you get the Bloc, who always speak French to make a point, the Westerners, who can't speak French so always speak English, the MPs who aren't super-comfortable with their non-preferred language so they will only speak it in response to a question in that language, out of courtesy, and the MPs who are confident in both and switch often, even in the same speech. By convention, the Speaker is always the last kind, and ...
02:43:57 <coppro> ... also by convention, the Deputy Speaker does not have the same native language as the Speaker, although the Deputy Speaker obeys the same conventions while speaking.
02:44:31 <ais523> heh, that must be quite hard to follow
02:44:57 <ais523> I looked at the parliament TV channel a bit in Canada; they were speaking in English at the time, but I couldn't really understand what they were saying anyway
02:45:11 <ais523> I understood the individual points, but it was a very nomicky bit of recursive procedure
02:45:15 <ais523> rather than actual lawmaking
02:45:15 <coppro> In Ottawa, was it English, French, or floor audio?
02:45:23 <coppro> yeah, it's gotten particularly bad lately
02:45:29 <ais523> was what?
02:45:34 <coppro> CPAC
02:45:44 <ais523> oh, what I was watching was in English
02:45:47 <coppro> ok
02:45:51 <ais523> but I didn't watch enough of it to know if it'd be in French at some point
02:46:16 <coppro> it's live translated
02:46:31 <ais523> that makes sense, really
02:46:40 <coppro> yeah
02:47:06 <coppro> floor audio is what they call the feed with no translation
02:47:15 <coppro> MPs have earpieces they can use to listen to the live translators
02:47:43 <ais523> hmm, I imagine that most countries don't have multilingual governments
02:47:48 <ais523> but Canada seems to deal with that quite well
02:47:54 <coppro> Yeah. It's pretty amazing, really.
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02:48:25 <coppro> And they produce bilingual transcripts by the next day.
02:48:48 <ais523> so, I guess the real question is why Quebec hasn't become independent yet; do they not want to leave, or does the rest of the country not want them to go?
02:49:07 <coppro> apparently visiting parliamentary delegations are consistently impressed by the turnaround time much less the turnaround time in two languages
02:49:30 <coppro> It came to referendum twice and came very very close to passing the second time
02:49:30 <ais523> well, if it's being translated anyway, transcripts for two languages are only twice as hard as transcripts for one
02:49:41 <ais523> as they can just transcript the translated audio
02:49:49 <ais523> coppro: referendum across the whole country, or across just Quebec?
02:49:53 <coppro> just Quebec
02:50:16 <coppro> yeah, but they need to be made sure to be accurate, and the live translation might not be so accurate.
02:50:25 <ais523> ah, right
02:50:35 <ais523> it might be hard to actually translate it, sometimes
02:50:36 <coppro> the second referendum in particular was panned for being particularly badly-worded
02:50:53 <ais523> <Douglas Hofstadter> "This English sentence is hard to translate into French."
02:51:21 <coppro> feelings across Canada tend to vary roughly linearly with distance from Québec
02:51:40 <ais523> in the UK, there's actually a government body responsible for wording referendums
02:51:51 <ais523> I didn't really like their wording on the single transferable vote issue
02:52:00 <ais523> but at least it wasn't as bad as some of the ones they considered
02:52:12 <ais523> and there was a PDF online explaining their reasoning (with focus groups backing it up!)
02:52:35 <coppro> plenty of people feel that Québec is an important part of Canada and they'd rather keep it (msyelf included)
02:52:56 <coppro> there is some sentiment that they're a bit of whiners and/or get special treatment and we'd be better off without them
02:53:10 <coppro> but in my experience it is usually more of a "fine, let them go, see how well they do without the rest of us"
02:53:16 <coppro> rather than a "yeah let's get rid of them"
02:53:23 <coppro> not that the latter don't exist, they just aren't very common
02:54:22 <coppro> There was a Supreme Court case trying to determine if Québec could secede unilaterally at some point, I think around the second referendum
02:54:41 <coppro> The outcome was basically "they can't do so unilaterally, but if they voted to, then they couldn't just be ignored"
02:54:49 <coppro> so both sides claimed it as a victory
02:54:54 <ais523> were they /trying/ to secede unilaterally? or was it a just-in-case thing?
02:55:12 <coppro> the proponents of the referendum sure would have like it to be unilateral
02:55:39 <ais523> and I guess the answer is, that if they /did/ secede unilaterally, then they wouldn't consider the supreme court judgement binding on them anyway
02:56:05 <coppro> since then, the Clarity Act was passed, which basically sets up a minimum standard of referendum for secession, and then commits the governments to working out how it would actually work should a vote succeed
02:56:42 <ais523> reminds me a bit of the law in the UK, which says that a union can't go on strike unless its members vote for one
02:57:02 <ais523> I think it's part of the measures taken to avoid a repeat of the infamous miner's strike several decades ago
02:57:10 <coppro> (4) For the purpose of subsection (3), a clear expression of the will of the population of a province that the province cease to be part of Canada could not result from
02:57:13 <coppro> (a) a referendum question that merely focuses on a mandate to negotiate without soliciting a direct expression of the will of the population of that province on whether the province should cease to be part of Canada; or
02:57:15 <ais523> the basic idea is to avoid coercing people into striking, while still letting them do so if they want to
02:57:17 <coppro> (b) a referendum question that envisages other possibilities in addition to the secession of the province from Canada, such as economic or political arrangements with Canada, that obscure a direct expression of the will of the population of that province on whether the province should cease to be part of Canada.
02:57:23 <coppro> right
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03:03:09 <ais523> clearly, if you want a referendum to pass, you just give the yes option and /two/ no options
03:03:13 <ais523> so that the no options dilute each other
03:06:02 <coppro> haha
03:06:27 <coppro> they should make a voting reform referendum with a number of options, using AV :P
03:08:17 <zzo38> That isn't proper! The vote should just be yes/no, possibly with comments if they are needed?
03:08:32 <coppro> ais523: Puerto Rico actually has that problem
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03:10:01 <ais523> ouch
03:10:14 <ais523> meanwhile, apparently my IRC client juts segfaulted
03:10:15 <ais523> *just
03:19:41 <coppro> Puerto Rico has had referendums in the past where they are offered a) statehood b) status quo c) independence
03:19:59 <ais523> oh dear
03:20:08 <ais523> to favour the status quo?
03:20:19 <coppro> My understanding is there are a fair number who would prefer a or c to b, but a and c invariably split that vote, and the indeciseveness means that the status quo gets chosen by default
03:20:40 <coppro> I think they're planning a new one that first says "should we accept the status quo" and then if the answer is no, they will do another to decide between statehood and independence
03:21:12 <ais523> which is unfair in another way, of course
03:21:26 <coppro> indeed
03:21:28 <ais523> approval vote would be a good solution for that sort of referendum, IMO
03:21:31 <coppro> yeah
03:21:39 <ais523> STV would work too but seems like overkill
03:22:06 <coppro> that's just AV
03:22:15 <coppro> AV is lim_{n\to 1} STV
03:22:23 <coppro> where n is the number of outcomes selected
03:22:48 <ais523> indeed
03:22:53 <ais523> but even AV is overkill for something like that
03:23:32 <coppro> approval would be good
03:30:49 <zzo38> What kind of dream did you have?
03:32:58 <ais523> in the dream I had last night, Totem was a package manager…
03:33:09 <ais523> I berated it for its technological inaccuracy when I woke up
03:36:45 <elliott> ais523: btw, you're missing brilliant games of monqys-crawl
03:36:51 <elliott> (not the same as monqy's crawl)
03:37:43 <ais523> s/li/l/
03:44:25 <zzo38> I have type Expander = StateT [Declaration] []; but now I think that might be wrong because, it may read only some declarations while expanding macros, and then the macros are capable to add new declarations, but we need to keep track of which declaration added on, which the compiler then may need to call the expander again to expand macros in new blocks, etc
03:47:23 <zzo38> I am somewhat confuse how to do
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05:06:33 <coppro> elliott: I just won agora
05:06:37 <elliott> coppro: congrats
05:06:41 <elliott> i'm trying to win monqys-crawl
05:06:43 <elliott> it's /really difficult/
05:06:48 <elliott> ais523: you should telnet termcast.org, choose elliottmq
05:06:52 <elliott> view a brief glimpse of monqys-crawl endgame
05:06:54 <elliott> (it's nothing like crawl)
05:07:03 <shachaf> Who wants a MATHEMATICS PUZZLE?!?
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05:16:23 <Sgeo> Grah, PuTTY
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07:15:14 <ais523> elliott: oh dear, I just noticed the domain name at the top of proggit right now
07:15:19 <ais523> "alan.dipert.org"
07:15:23 <ais523> is it THE ALAN DIPERT, I wonder?
07:15:25 <elliott> i commented on that earlier
07:15:26 <elliott> it is
07:19:45 <ais523> also, I think I've seen that page before
07:24:20 <Sgeo> Alan Dipert?
07:24:37 <elliott> *THE ALAN DIPERT
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08:09:07 <elliott> wow
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08:23:05 <cheater_> @tell kmc i just can't choose: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=html&cat=personas&appver=&platform= ----------- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=php&cat=personas
08:23:05 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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08:35:41 <Taneb> Hello!
08:36:42 <Sgeo> Hi Taneb
08:36:46 <Sgeo> Did you see the update?
08:36:48 <Taneb> Yeah
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09:43:09 <itidus20> so a thought just occured to me.. for a program which takes code with gotos, and reorganizes it into code without gotos
09:43:35 <Phantom_Hoover> What do you mean 'without gotos'?
09:43:51 <Phantom_Hoover> If you mean loop-based, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible.
09:44:24 <Lumpio-> You can always write the equivalent program without gotos
09:44:30 <itidus20> loops, conditionals, loop breaks, continues, anything but the gotos
09:44:32 <Lumpio-> However automating that transform might be a bit hard
09:44:40 <kmc> itidus20: why
09:44:40 <lambdabot> kmc: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
09:44:52 <kmc> @messages
09:44:53 <lambdabot> cheater_ said 1h 21m 46s ago: i just can't choose: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?q=html&cat=personas&appver=&platform= ----------- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/search/?
09:44:53 <lambdabot> q=php&cat=personas
09:44:56 <Lumpio-> I doubt anybody uses gotos without a good reason anymore
09:45:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Lumpio-, obviously you can assuming the two things you're translating between are both TC.
09:45:34 <itidus20> ahhh
09:45:43 <cheater_> kmc: help me choose
09:45:46 <itidus20> is BASIC TC?
09:45:59 <kmc> when nelhage published http://livegrep.com some redditor was aghast to note that there are "over 50" gotos in the Linux kernel
09:46:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait
09:46:08 <kmc> there are like... many thousands
09:46:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Just write an interpreter for the goto language in the structured one, then get it to interpret the goto code.
09:46:39 <elliott> Lumpio-: Automating that transform might be a bit hard?
09:46:44 <cheater_> kmc: hahaha
09:46:44 <elliott> That's, uh, what a compiler does.
09:46:50 <elliott> There's no structured control at the machine levle.
09:46:52 <elliott> *level.
09:46:58 <kmc> elliott: i think you have it backwards
09:47:03 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, he means no structured control -> structured control
09:47:08 <elliott> Oh, oops.
09:47:18 <itidus20> well i really meant some structued control -> all structured :D
09:47:23 <elliott> Well, that's still trivial, all you need is a switch and a while loop.
09:47:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Hey cool, alt-. makes a mid-dot
09:47:38 <elliott> kmc will now complain at me for saying "trivial".
09:47:41 <kmc>
09:47:49 <kmc> elliott: it might be an acceptable use
09:47:56 <Phantom_Hoover> hey elliott remember when you did all ellipses like that
09:48:01 <elliott> œ
09:48:03 <kmc> after all the reason i complain about "awesome" and "trivial" is not that I think these words should never be used
09:48:06 <nortti> Phantom_Hoover: it looks like grey block for me
09:48:09 <cheater_> actually, he'd complain more if someone said "solved problem"
09:48:13 <elliott> kmc: awesome
09:48:20 <Lumpio-> elliott :V
09:48:21 <itidus20> one good application for this would be so that people have no excuses to have code with gotos
09:48:24 <Phantom_Hoover> nortti, even more reason to use it!
09:48:30 <elliott> §
09:48:33 <kmc> itidus20: some code is much nicer when written with goto
09:48:34 <Lumpio-> A switch is just cheating
09:48:38 <Lumpio-> In C at least
09:48:45 <kmc> especially when you have only C control flow
09:48:47 <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, you realise the goto battle was won long ago, right?
09:48:47 <elliott> A switch without fallovers or whatever.
09:48:53 <nortti> ■■■■■■■■
09:48:57 <elliott>
09:49:05 <kmc> ┌──────────┐
09:49:06 <kmc> │ ■■■■■■■■ │
09:49:06 <kmc> └──────────┘
09:49:10 <cheater_> i will start making full stops like this ■
09:49:16 <cheater_> there■
09:49:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Nobody uses goto as their primary control structure any more.
09:49:23 <elliott> ÷πª•∞¢´∑ß≈ç√∫~∆˚øª•¶§∞åÎØÍÚÏÎ`˜ÂÁ¢
09:49:44 <cheater_> because a full stop really needs to be a fully black character■
09:49:53 <nortti> elliott: I can type § without using any modifier keys kinda like ½
09:49:57 <elliott> ≈ƒµçk≈
09:50:01 <itidus20> well it would be ridiculous to stop using goto altogether.
09:50:03 <kmc>
09:50:03 <nortti> åäöäåöäå
09:50:10 <cheater_> inb4 zalgo
09:50:13 <itidus20> i have therefore said nothing :D
09:50:17 <elliott> ΉÅÊÓ ÍÓÈÊ
09:50:24 <cheater_> kmc, zalgo?
09:50:33 <kmc> no zalgo 4 u
09:50:37 <cheater_> ow
09:50:40 <cheater_> that hurt■
09:50:44 <elliott> πøøπ
09:50:48 <elliott> ®øø∂
09:51:01 <elliott> §üπé®
09:51:05 <elliott> ˙鬬ø
09:51:06 <kmc> hm my boxifying script probably does not handle combining characters
09:51:32 <elliott> `MAN'
09:51:32 <cheater_> why do you have a boxifying script■
09:51:40 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: MAN': not found
09:51:42 <elliott>
09:51:45 <elliott>
09:51:46 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ´: not found
09:51:50 <kmc> so i can put stuff in boxes
09:52:07 <cheater_> kmc, that makes sense■
09:53:14 <kmc> but it does handle
09:53:17 <kmc> ┌────────────────────────────────┐
09:53:20 <kmc> │ FULLWIDTH LATIN │
09:53:23 <kmc> └────────────────────────────────┘
09:53:48 <Lumpio-> But... does it handle fullwidth CJK?
09:53:52 <kmc> yes
09:53:58 <Lumpio-> great
09:53:58 <cheater_> fwiw, it doesn't work in xchat anyways because variable width font■
09:54:04 <kmc> i get the character properties from ICU
09:54:12 <kmc> cheater_: :(
09:54:18 <cheater_> it never did, kmc■
09:54:19 <Lumpio-> Variable width fonts for IRC are just wrong
09:54:29 <cheater_> as hard as you might try■
09:54:41 <Lumpio-> It could work
09:54:44 <cheater_> Lumpio-: that's only until you start using them and your eyes don't hurt anymore■
09:54:49 <Lumpio-> Japanese people make "ASCII art" using variable width fonts
09:55:01 <cheater_> Lumpio-: yeah but the right wall won't line up at all■
09:55:09 <Lumpio-> (Of course they assume everybody's running exactly the same version of Windows with the same font and rendering method)
09:55:27 <Lumpio-> (But then again over there everybody is still stuck with w2k or something)
09:55:39 <cheater_> this isn't exactly exactly ascii art■
09:55:40 <Lumpio-> (And using operating systems besides Windows would dishonor your entire family)
09:55:45 <cheater_> it's more line drawing than anything■
09:55:46 <Lumpio-> Yes, it's not ASCII art. They still call it that.
09:55:58 <cheater_> you misunderstood me■
09:56:01 <Lumpio-> It's not even ASCII.
09:56:08 <cheater_> it's also not art■
09:56:09 <Lumpio-> No, I didn't.
09:56:15 <cheater_> kmc's boxes are merely kitsch■
09:56:18 <Lumpio-> I was talking about lining up stuff with variable width fonts
09:56:24 <Lumpio-> Also these days anything can be art
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09:56:47 <Lumpio-> As long as somebody thinks it's art, it's art.
09:56:48 <cheater_> what about the art of computer programming■
09:57:04 <Lumpio-> If other people have problems accepting that all they need to do is call it experimental or progressive art
09:57:07 <cheater_> go program some php, make art■
09:57:29 <cheater_> what if it's not progressive or experimental at all■
09:57:50 <cheater_> let's say someone paints a really beautiful landscape, rembrandt style■
09:57:53 <Lumpio-> It is if somebody says so.
09:57:58 <cheater_> it's touching■
09:58:02 <Lumpio-> Also wtf is with the ■
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09:58:11 <cheater_> but it's neither progressive nor experimental■
09:58:19 <cheater_> it's just the new FULLER stop■
09:58:27 <Lumpio-> ooh
09:58:29 <cheater_> it's a FULL CHARACTER■
09:58:36 <Lumpio-> Fine
09:58:42 <Lumpio-> Then I shall use the CJK full stop。
09:58:49 <cheater_> feel free
09:58:53 <cheater_> i just got bored with my fuller stop
09:59:02 <cheater_> i won't be using it for the time being
09:59:31 <pikhq> Yay、 CJK fullーwidth full stop!
10:00:07 <kmc>
10:00:47 <pikhq> Wut
10:01:44 <Lumpio->
10:01:49 <cheater_> «серафими многоꙮчитїи»
10:02:01 <kmc> yep
10:02:20 <kmc> 💩
10:02:22 <cheater_>
10:02:44 <cheater_> what's the one you just pasted
10:02:46 <cheater_> i don't have it
10:02:47 <pikhq> Lumpio-: Lame. 森
10:02:56 <kmc> cheater_: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm
10:03:12 <cheater_> right
10:03:22 <cheater_> that's probably a very good unicode coverage testing character
10:03:25 <kmc> the only (?) unicode character with smell lines
10:03:33 <kmc> actually they should have combining smell lines
10:03:42 <Lumpio->
10:03:43 <cheater_> they should, shouldn't they
10:03:55 <cheater_> i am surprised they ignore this fact so blatantly
10:04:32 <kmc> ⅯⅭⅯⅬⅩⅩⅩⅧ
10:04:51 <pikhq> Lumpio-: 𪚥
10:05:20 <pikhq> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Zh%C3%A9.svg
10:05:39 <kmc> i'm using Mosh so i can't copy-paste characters wich aren't recognized by my locale :/
10:06:09 <pikhq> 龘's also fun.
10:06:11 <kmc> they turn into U+FFFD 'REPLACEMENT CHARACTER'
10:06:19 <Sgeo> smell lines?
10:06:20 <Sgeo> o.O
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10:08:36 <kmc> maybe han characters were invented by dragons
10:09:32 <kmc> i was thinking the other day about how chopsticks kinda suck compared to forks, but asian soup spoons are way better than western ones
10:09:47 <kmc> i want to make this into an entire bullshit pop-psych theory about east vs west
10:10:56 -!- cheater_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
10:11:57 <kmc> chopsticks are versatile though
10:14:11 <itidus20> i saw somewhere that some japanese guy adding thumb shaped stubs to forks to make them look more like hands
10:15:01 <cheater__> hey kmc what was that haskell shell lib that allowed you to use combinators to pipe stuff around?
10:15:07 <kmc> don't remember
10:15:13 <cheater__> you know which one i mean though?
10:15:28 <kmc> maybe
10:15:35 <cheater__> you're so cryptic
10:15:41 <cheater__> haha
10:16:39 <cheater__> does shqq have piping?
10:16:51 <kmc> not in any special way
10:17:06 <kmc> you can use the normal shell pipe within the quotation
10:17:12 <kmc> [sh| foo | bar |]
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10:34:35 <cheater__> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3966632
10:34:50 <cheater__> i bet that'll at least double my karma
10:35:05 <cheater__> basically, any mention of hskell = karma
10:35:12 <kmc> really?
10:35:16 <kmc> i thought reddit and hackernews were over haskell
10:35:24 <cheater__> apparently not
10:35:44 <kmc> i know /r/programming had a haskell phase but last i checked they had more of a haskell backlash
10:35:54 <kmc> however these days I avoid that place like the pits of hell
10:35:55 <cheater__> yea i heard they had a haskell aversion
10:35:59 <kmc> hn is pretty annoying too
10:35:59 <cheater__> but hn is all functional
10:36:03 <cheater__> it's written in lisp isn't it
10:36:08 <cheater__> that's the nature of the beast
10:36:09 <kmc> eh paul graham is not a big haskell fan
10:36:16 <cheater__> paul graham is not a big * fan
10:36:25 <kmc> it's written in Arc actually
10:36:32 <kmc> which is PG's crackhead Lisp dialect
10:36:32 <cheater__> what's arc
10:36:35 <cheater__> right
10:36:40 <cheater__> it's pg's blub isn't it
10:36:43 <kmc> yeah
10:36:44 <cheater__> i remember reading about it
10:37:01 <kmc> also Lisp ≠ functional, if you read _On Lisp_ you'll see that PG doesn't particularly use a functional style
10:37:17 <kmc> a lot of Lispers will get really annoyed if you call Lisp a functional language
10:37:31 <cheater__> don't take this too seriously
10:37:45 <cheater__> i was joking and you think i'm serious
10:38:04 <cheater__> i thought it was an obvious joke, i mean "lisp is functional" come on
10:38:21 <cheater__> ok now upvote that comment and the post it links to kmc
10:38:25 <cheater__> plz
10:38:34 <kmc> anyway HN may be written in Arc but it's full of startup weenies who think ruby and node.js coffeescript are beautiful awesome ninja hacker software
10:38:45 <kmc> at this point i'm really embarassed to be associated with "hacker" culture
10:38:49 <kmc> i guess that makes me a bitter elitist
10:38:58 <kmc> cheater__: i don't have a HN account
10:39:16 <cheater__> damn you
10:39:42 <cheater__> well, you know
10:39:43 <cheater__> kmc
10:39:46 <kmc> cheater__
10:39:51 <cheater__> 98% of everything is shit
10:40:04 <cheater__> also, if you take the remaining 2% then 98% of that is shit
10:40:14 <kmc> yes
10:40:16 <kmc> fractal shit
10:40:19 <kmc> it's shit all the way down
10:40:28 <cheater__> there you go
10:40:34 <cheater__> so i'm thinking, it applies to hackers too
10:40:38 <kmc> On Lisp is a cool book though
10:40:40 <cheater__> that's what we have to work with
10:40:55 <cheater__> you can't just hide in your shell and wait for the (shit)storm to pass
10:40:58 <cheater__> it will never pass
10:41:00 <cheater__> it's just the way it is
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10:41:28 <cheater__> you can ignore it's there, and avoid everything where you think there's that 98% of shit
10:41:30 <cheater__> but really
10:41:48 <cheater__> if you don't see the 98% in something then you just aren't good enough at that thing to appreciate good quality
10:42:08 <cheater__> example: you still haven't gotten put off on electronics
10:42:13 <cheater__> if you keep at it, you surely will
10:42:38 <cheater__> so i'm thinking, it's much better to display enough creativity to actually make something out of all that, you know, shit
10:42:45 <cheater__> since it's 98% of the natural resource.
10:42:52 <cheater__> i guess that's the smart way to go, make something out of nothing.
10:43:04 <kmc> wow CNN has articles about brogrammers now
10:43:09 <cheater__> do they
10:43:10 <cheater__> url
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10:43:23 <kmc> http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/tech/web/brogrammers/index.html
10:43:26 <kmc> cheater__: i'm not put off making stuff
10:43:31 <kmc> just put off "hacker culture"
10:43:42 <kmc> so instead of spending my time reading HN, i make stuff
10:44:01 <cheater__> you've just learnt that it's crap, that's all
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10:44:18 <cheater__> but it's not really an earth shattering realization once you realize that 98% of everything is crap
10:44:45 <kmc> i'm almost pleased about the fact that Mosh uses such un-sexy tools
10:44:53 <kmc> C++ and Automake and fucking unix terminal subsystem
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10:45:09 <kmc> though it really should be in a memory-safe langauge
10:46:36 <cheater__> why should it
10:46:48 <cheater__> why didn't you make it in python and twisted and coffeescript
10:46:53 <cheater__> you suck
10:46:57 <cheater__> you're not a hacker
10:47:06 <cheater__> (:D)
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10:48:08 <kmc> yeah i know right
10:48:40 <kmc> also it uses a network protocol that isn't HTTP based
10:48:49 <cheater__> actually, i'm wondering about python's increasing notoriety as a "systems language"
10:48:54 <kmc> that pretty much marks us as dinosaurs right
10:49:07 <cheater__> it really does feel like it's replacing the C/C++/Cobol/Perl hydra
10:49:13 <kmc> in 40 years all protocols below HTTP will be forgotton
10:49:21 <cheater__> they have already
10:49:24 <Sgeo> I assume kmc is joking
10:49:25 <cheater__> "what's a port"
10:49:35 <cheater__> "what do you mean the port is not 80"
10:49:41 <kmc> and we'll be reimplementing TCP and UDP poorly over HTTP
10:49:45 <cheater__> "how can you have a port that's not 80"
10:49:49 <cheater__> kmc, exactly
10:49:57 <cheater__> that's the fucking amazing part about hackers nowadays
10:50:11 <cheater__> reimplement shit on top of exactly the same shit fifty layers down
10:50:51 <kmc> my friend was at a café and someone saw code on his screen and asked him what he does for a living
10:51:02 <kmc> "i'm a kernel programmer, it's the very core of the operating system"
10:51:11 <kmc> "oh, so, like not even the Drupal layer? even lower than that?"
10:51:16 <kmc> -_-
10:51:52 <kmc> this is really a sign of progress though
10:51:59 <kmc> even if it's unpalatable to eleet ninja hackers
10:52:35 <kmc> our abstractions are good enough that people can build worthwhile things without knowing every single irrelevant detail of the hardware and operating system
10:53:13 <cheater__> hahahahhaha
10:53:16 <cheater__> Drupal Layer
10:53:16 <kmc> there is some fallacy that we could make all current programmers learn assembly language and CPU architecture
10:53:26 <kmc> when really a lot of people would just give up on programming then
10:53:42 <cheater__> Drupal Layer is the new ISO OSI Layer 0
10:53:46 <kmc> yeah
10:53:47 <cheater__> amirite
10:53:49 <cheater__> haha
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10:58:20 <cheater__> http://scpd.stanford.edu/knuth/index.jsp
10:58:23 <cheater__> here you go kmc
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11:02:53 <kmc> cheater__: http://a841-tfpweb.nyc.gov/bikeshare/files/2012/05/Schaefer-Landing.jpg
11:02:56 <kmc> don't you love this map
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11:07:36 <cheater__> what is that
11:08:00 <cheater__> i think they might be using the wrong metric
11:08:42 <kmc> yeah...
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11:08:51 <kmc> it's supposed to be how far you can bike from a given point in n minutes
11:08:55 <kmc> but that point is on the waterline...
11:09:24 -!- MoALTz has joined.
11:09:37 <kmc> also you have to bike east to the edge of their "5 min" circle just to get on the bridge to go west
11:11:17 -!- MoALTz_ has joined.
11:13:44 <cheater__> why does it matter
11:13:51 <cheater__> it's obviously a crude representation
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11:14:07 <cheater__> why do you expect it to be autism-compatible
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11:14:27 <Taneb> Hello
11:15:04 <kmc> hi Taneb
11:15:24 <cheater__> hi Taneb
11:15:36 <kmc> cheater__: the circle maps are always crude approximations but this one is beyond ridiculous
11:15:53 <cheater__> is it really
11:15:55 <kmc> yes
11:16:02 <cheater__> what if the center of the circle were just a little bit further
11:16:05 <kmc> it understates the time to bike to many points by at least a factor of 2
11:16:05 <cheater__> somewhere on land
11:16:15 <cheater__> factor of 2 is not that much
11:16:24 <cheater__> it's only one order of magnitude in binary
11:16:28 <kmc> lol cheater__
11:16:41 <kmc> so anyone who cares about correctness within an order of magnitude is mentally ill
11:16:54 <cheater__> it's not like you'll expect to go for a 10 minute ride and end up commuting for a whole day
11:17:00 <cheater__> no kmc
11:17:05 <cheater__> it's just you
11:17:10 <cheater__> not anyone
11:17:11 <cheater__> :D
11:17:24 <kmc> ;P
11:17:31 <kmc> if they just had the east half of each circle that would be ok
11:18:25 <kmc> but e.g. they imply you can get from Schaefer Landing to DUMBO in 10 minutes
11:18:43 <kmc> by biking across the water and the navy yard
11:18:51 <cheater__> i am dismayed at the fact that no european universities do an OCW kind of thing
11:19:01 <kmc> the intersection of that circle with the route you'd actually take is less than halfway
11:19:39 <cheater__> why are you obsessing over this
11:19:46 <kmc> to annoy you cheater__
11:19:52 <cheater__> have you been watching some sort of commuter-version of requiem for a dream
11:20:05 <cheater__> it doesn't annoy me
11:20:09 <cheater__> it just makes me wonder
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11:20:43 <cheater__> better tell me if you know of any european unis that have online courses available
11:20:46 <cheater__> free ones
11:22:32 <kmc> i don't know of any
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11:23:43 <kmc> your language says a lot cheater__
11:23:54 <kmc> you assume i bring up this map because i am "obsessing"
11:24:02 <kmc> when it is just a momentary diversion
11:24:05 <kmc> that says more about u than about me
11:26:23 <Sgeo> FOS: cheater__ ?
11:26:31 <cheater__> Sgeo: FOS?
11:26:38 <Sgeo> Sorry, I'm a bit Mafia obsessed lately
11:26:46 <Sgeo> Finger of Suspicion
11:26:58 <Taneb> I'm awful at mafia
11:27:02 <cheater__> wat
11:27:20 <Sgeo> Taneb, you're officially better than the people in #wolfgame
11:27:29 <Taneb> cheater__, he thinks you are one of the people who kill a townsperson at night-time
11:28:07 <Sgeo> I, as a townie, was once lynched at lylo for checking stats at daybreak
11:28:15 <Taneb> !!!
11:30:17 <cheater__> Taneb: oh
11:31:18 <Sgeo> Taneb, pop-quiz: Should the town, during the day, if there's nothing in particular to talk about:
11:31:31 <Sgeo> a) Talk, in an attempt to root out mafia, or
11:31:34 <Sgeo> b) Not talk.
11:31:39 <Taneb> I'd go for a
11:31:50 <Sgeo> And you're smarter than #wolfgame, good job
11:32:05 <Taneb> Of course, I suck at talking, and when I do talk, everyone thinks I'm mafioso
11:32:13 <Sgeo> lol
11:34:30 <cheater__> man
11:34:40 <cheater__> the german universities really suck at online courses
11:34:51 <cheater__> there's the british Open University that does it
11:34:53 <cheater__> and ParisTech
11:35:04 <cheater__> then the next nearest thing to europe is in australia, or something.
11:35:20 <cheater__> you even get a japanese uni.
11:36:03 <Taneb> Japan's closer to Europe than Australia?
11:36:11 <Taneb> Unless you mean culturally?
11:36:20 <Taneb> Or linguistically, I guess
11:36:43 <cheater__> no i mean as in "the closest thing to europe other than europe or usa"
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11:36:57 <cheater__> just trying to display how far behind europe is in that regard
11:37:26 <Taneb> Oh, close as in close in the rankings
11:37:54 <cheater__> no
11:37:56 <cheater__> geographically
11:39:06 <cheater__> hey have you seen this https://gist.github.com/701213
11:39:13 <cheater__> "lessons learned from #python"
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11:45:26 <Taneb> How does GPL apply to a file format?
11:48:29 <cheater__> gpl is a copyright based license
11:48:39 <cheater__> a format is not data, it is metadata
11:48:48 <cheater__> you can only copyright data, not metadata
11:49:16 <cheater__> but it also means that you can change the format and you're still under the same copyright
11:49:29 <cheater__> that's why mp3 files are copyrighted because people have copyright over the source cds
11:50:41 <Taneb> So, I'm free to write a program that saves to a format, the specifications of which are in the form of an XML DTD which explicitly mentions that it is licensed under GPL, and release my program under any license I like?
11:52:18 <Taneb> Actually, nevermind
11:58:47 <kmc> cheater__: interesting
11:58:54 <kmc> in my short time in #python i noticed these problems too
11:58:59 <cheater__> everyone has
11:59:05 <cheater__> those trolls are legendary
11:59:11 <cheater__> getting banned from #python = badge of honor
12:00:41 <cheater__> hey kmc, EvilTerran on Hackernews says "ShQQ looks very nice"
12:00:45 <cheater__> i thought it would be pertinent
12:00:49 <kmc> ok
12:01:06 <cheater__> i'll livestream all comments to your ephemeral consciousness
12:01:13 <cheater__> livetweeting to your cortex
12:01:35 <cheater__> git pushing into your noggin with --force
12:01:40 <kmc> haha
12:02:30 <kmc> reallyUnsafe
12:03:11 <ion> Use the --force-luke.
12:03:27 <cheater__> git push --force ssh://localhost/dev/brain
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12:04:47 <cheater__> i guess it's better to use ``git push --force file:///dev/brain''
12:08:29 <kmc> or just /dev/brain
12:08:34 <kmc> i often use "git push ."
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12:15:26 <kmc> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Gato_enervado_pola_presencia_dun_can.jpg
12:19:30 <cheater__> why do you use git push . ?
12:24:12 <kmc> to update a ref in the local repository
12:27:10 <cheater__> excuse me sir but what does that do
12:29:41 <kmc> sometimes i want to change which commit a particular branch points to
12:29:48 <kmc> without checking out that branch
12:29:57 <kmc> git push . is a fine way to do it
12:30:11 <kmc> there are other ways
12:30:11 <olsner> I'd use git branch -f for that
12:30:44 <kmc> cool
12:31:22 <kmc> that probably handles the case where the ref doesn't exist better
12:34:05 <cheater__> wow the chinese OCW doesn't even have a fuckin domain
12:34:11 <cheater__> it's just an ip address
12:34:15 <cheater__> and the port is 8080
12:34:16 <cheater__> lol
12:34:57 <kmc> haha
12:35:01 <ion> nice
12:35:22 <nortti> OCW?
12:35:58 <cheater__> open course ware
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12:40:14 <Taneb> Hello!
12:40:22 <kmc> hi Taneb
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12:45:35 <cheater__> hi kmc
12:45:40 <kmc> hi cheater__
12:45:44 <cheater__> what's up
12:46:04 <kmc> not a lot
12:47:03 <cheater__> i am just currently being mindblown by the fact that the first digit of my weight in kilograms in decimal at sea level earth gravitation is about to drop by 1
12:47:41 <kmc> ok
12:49:47 <nortti> cheater__: do you mean your mass in kilograms or you weight in newtons?
12:50:18 <kmc> nortti: in before cheater__ accuses you of having an autism spectrum disorder
12:51:45 <cheater__> nortti: good catch, i keep forgetting that weight is a force
12:51:58 <cheater__> kmc: dude stop it with your autism
12:52:04 <cheater__> (:D)
12:53:00 <cheater__> so i'm browsing this blog with online video lectures and i notice a lecture by Spolsky
12:53:02 <cheater__> and i think
12:53:04 <nortti> kmc: why would he think I have autims spectrum disorder
12:53:08 <cheater__> who the fuck let that guy teach at a university
12:53:14 <cheater__> really frightening moment
12:53:19 <cheater__> i look again and it's like.. Saplosky
12:53:20 <kmc> some other spolsky i hope
12:53:23 <kmc> ok good lol
12:53:26 <cheater__> lol
12:53:29 <olsner> nortti: only autists know about the difference between mass and weight
12:53:38 <kmc> or any other matter of correctness
12:53:49 <olsner> kmc: autist.
12:54:01 <kmc> autofellatio
12:54:06 <cheater__> autoautist
12:54:10 <olsner> autistfellatio?
12:54:23 <nortti> I don't want to know
12:55:14 <kmc> cheater__: i streamlined my blogpost writing workflow by using inotifywait to run pandoc when i save the markdown file
12:55:19 <kmc> this is a lifehack for sure
12:57:18 <cheater__> kmc: pandoc gives you html yes?
12:57:23 <kmc> yes
12:57:33 <kmc> can output many formats, but i'm doing markdown → html
12:57:46 <cheater__> kmc: i'm thinking i should set up a build system for my blog, so that i can jump ship from posterous any time
12:58:03 <cheater__> if i can set up a blog and have all the posts up in just one command, that's gotta be worth something
12:58:11 <kmc> yeah
12:58:16 <kmc> mine isn't quite that slick
12:58:33 <kmc> it might be cool to use jekyll or hakyll or something
12:58:52 <cheater__> i just mean, something that uploads to posterous in one go
12:58:59 <cheater__> and when the time comes, have it upload to some other thing
12:59:07 <cheater__> like blogspot or whatever
12:59:09 <cheater__> blogstain
13:01:22 <kmc> yes
13:01:35 <kmc> with those progs i mentioned, you get just a static file tree
13:01:37 <kmc> so you can use any web host
13:05:42 <ion> Please give me Coke. http://youtu.be/VuAXoSnp14M?t=13m36s
13:06:29 <cheater__> kmc: i don't want to use a web host because web hosts are not free
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13:08:26 <cheater__> ion: hilarious A+++++++ would watch again
13:13:56 <nortti> yay. LAME says that encoding will take aproximately 23 hours and 10 minutes -.-'
13:14:10 <ion> The encoding of what?
13:14:53 <nortti> ion: sound file from wav to mp3
13:15:03 <ion> The encoding of what sound file?
13:16:06 <nortti> ion: audio of brain scratch comms Q&A video ripped to 2.3GB wav file
13:16:31 * ion googles
13:16:36 <nortti> oh. now it is only 23 hours
13:17:21 <cheater__> why is it a 2.3 gb wav file?
13:17:29 <cheater__> also, that's way too much.
13:17:41 <cheater__> and, you're probably better off transcoding speech to flac
13:17:49 <cheater__> because mp3 really mutilates it and makes it SUPER annoying
13:19:34 <nortti> cheater__: video is 3 hours and 55 minutes long. I ripped the audio with ffmpeg using ffmpeg -i bscqa.mp3 bscqa.wav
13:23:11 <cheater__> yeah.
13:23:11 <nortti> wow. I got response from European Parliament to my question about law making possession of hacking tools illegal
13:23:20 <cheater__> 23 hours is way too much.
13:23:23 <ion> such as gcc?
13:23:25 <cheater__> nortti: what did they say?
13:23:38 <cheater__> ion: another reason to use clang amirite
13:23:45 <nortti> cheater__: they can't say what is hacking tool
13:24:14 <nortti> cheater__: remember I am using computer with 700MHz Pentium III
13:24:40 <ion> Still sounds too long.
13:25:06 -!- variable has changed nick to function.
13:25:22 <cheater__> nortti: oh, so you don't have sse. you've really fucked yourself over there
13:25:32 <cheater__> why are you using such an antique piece of technology?
13:25:32 <nortti> ion: now it says 22h 30min
13:25:43 <nortti> cheater__: by iBook G4 broke
13:25:51 <nortti> s/by/my
13:25:53 <ion> My 66 MHz Amiga can’t encode MP3 in realtime, but most things faster than that should be able to do that. :-P
13:25:53 <nortti> +/
13:26:01 <cheater__> g4 is still antique
13:26:38 <nortti> cheater__: is is not
13:27:17 <nortti> cheater__: it isn't even 10 years old
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13:27:30 <olsner> nortti: if the source is mp3, why are you encoding anything at all?
13:27:38 <nortti> olsner: source is wav
13:28:10 <cheater__> i see a very big sexist bias in this list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people#Ten_verified_oldest_people_living
13:28:29 <olsner> nortti: "I ripped the audio with ffmpeg using ffmpeg -i bscqa.mp3 bscqa.wav"?
13:28:42 <nortti> olsner: I mean bcsqa.mp4
13:29:57 <nortti> olsner: I used youtube-dl to download bscqa.mp4, ffmpeg to rip it's audio and lame to convert audio to something that is not completely ridicilous in size
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13:30:17 <cheater__> nortti
13:30:21 <cheater__> what's the original url of that thing
13:30:29 <olsner> what codec is the original audio track? that's probably something fairly standard
13:30:47 <cheater__> mp4 is often aac isn't it
13:31:03 <ion> bscqa.mp4 almost certainly contains compressed audio, why not just extract it and use it as-is?
13:31:23 <nortti> ion: I don't know ho to do that
13:31:58 <olsner> you can do something like mplayer -dumpaudio
13:32:23 <cheater__> yeah recompressing is usually a bad idea anyways
13:32:31 <cheater__> nortti: so why are you exporting the audio again?
13:33:52 <nortti> cheater__: I download bscqa.mp4, rip audio from it to bscqa.wav and encode bscqa.wav to mp3. I don't see where I am exporting the audio again
13:34:25 <cheater__> "again" is a matter of speech
13:34:33 <cheater__> tell me why you are exporting the audio
13:34:38 <ion> http://www.mediafire.com/?d94ngt9iuqmd4sd
13:36:39 <nortti> ion: what is that?
13:37:37 <nortti> (mediafire requires javascript so I don't know what is behind that link)
13:38:57 <ion> “BrainScratchComms Q&A Responses!.mp3”
13:39:09 <nortti> cheater__: I am exporting audio because their .mp3 file is hosted on megaupload
13:39:24 <nortti> ion: well I can't download it
13:39:58 <ion> Your Pentium III can’t run a browser that supports JavaScript?
13:40:32 <nortti> ion: it can but hv3 crashes when trying to parse the mess on that page
13:40:52 <ion> Then try another one.
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13:41:36 <nortti> ion: hv3 is the only one running at speed that is acceptable
13:42:02 <nortti> ion: well it and links2 with -enable-javascript but that is a joke
13:42:24 <nortti> *that thing
13:43:24 <cheater__> try uh
13:43:24 <cheater__> dropbox?
13:43:54 <cheater__> kmc: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4536.html
13:44:05 <cheater__> ^best argumentation strategy
13:44:10 <nortti> cheater__: how do I download file from mediafire using dropbox?
13:44:32 <cheater__> nortti: that was for ion really
13:44:39 <cheater__> can you download from dropbox using dropbox?
13:45:15 <nortti> cheater__: yes. I had to install Xvesa for it to work though
13:45:30 <nortti> s/I had/I'd have/
13:46:20 <nortti> cheater__: oh you meant from dl.dropbox.com? yes I can even with links
13:47:05 <cheater__> yeah
13:47:13 <cheater__> ion try uploading to dropbox if u want to
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13:58:08 <Gregor> "Sensors detect no signs of life." *beam down* *surrounded by trees*
13:58:35 <cheater__> which one was that
13:58:42 <cheater__> i can vaguely recollect
14:00:08 <cheater__> kmc do you know of rexcurry.net
14:05:25 <ion> cheater: I don’t have the file.
14:05:56 <cheater__> ion: oh i thought you uploaded it for him
14:06:02 <cheater__> anyways i gotta go to the gym, ttyl
14:06:07 <ion> Nah, it was just linked from the video comments.
14:10:14 <nortti> interesting. LAME stopped at 20 hours and 6 minutes
14:18:17 <cheater__> don't get your hopes up
14:18:36 <cheater__> so apparently, my gmail has 455 filters
14:18:50 <cheater__> around 450 of those filters are to folderize recruiter spam
14:19:11 <cheater__> thank DOG for the ability to export and import filters in gfail
14:21:53 <kmc> so sassy
14:21:56 <kmc> gfail
14:22:08 <kmc> micro$haft winbloze
14:22:24 <kmc> facecock
14:24:36 <ion> HAHAHAHA
14:25:23 <kmc> i agree with olsner that you should dump the encoded audio out of the mp4 file
14:25:28 <kmc> unless you need mp3 specifically
14:26:44 <nortti> kmc: yeah. I remeber that next time when I have to do that
14:28:44 <nortti> kmc: lame finished encoding when it said it still had over 20 hours left
14:28:53 <cheater__> km¢
14:29:24 <cheater__> the cent sign is representative of the described object's perceived value
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14:29:51 <cheater__> nortti: oh it finished? ok
14:30:09 <cheater__> nortti: i thought you meant it just stopped predicting at 20 hours, and continued to predict it'll take another 20 hours.
14:30:29 <ion> ₭₥₵
14:31:02 <cheater__> \zalgo{kmc}
14:31:15 <cheater__> hahaha someone should really make a zalgo function for LaTeX
14:31:16 <ion> Has someone actually implemented \zalgo{}?
14:31:19 <ion> oh
14:31:26 <cheater__> i wish they would
14:31:31 <cheater__> it would be the ultimate thing ever
14:31:50 <kmc> relevant: http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/29402/how-do-i-make-my-document-look-like-it-was-written-by-a-cthulhu-worshipping-madm
14:32:03 * cheater__ chuckles
14:32:47 <kmc> "Googling "crazy latex" did not return what I expected."
14:33:09 <itidus20> "scrawled by a gibbering madman, unhinged by the horrors he has witnessed"
14:36:23 <cheater__> sounds like ShQQ
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14:40:09 <kmc> snap
14:40:37 <cheater__> got u there didn't i
14:40:40 <kmc> yep
14:42:42 <kmc> what are the horrors i have witnessed
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14:49:38 <cheater__> #php
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14:50:36 <kmc> i've never been to #php
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15:41:36 <Taneb> @ping
15:41:36 <lambdabot> pong
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17:04:08 <cheater__> kmc: lies, one time i told you to go there because funny shit was going down
17:04:12 <cheater__> and you joined in
17:06:46 <Taneb> Hello!
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17:11:15 <kmc> did i
17:11:20 <kmc> what funny shit went down
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17:23:10 <cheater__> no idea
17:24:50 <cheater__> speaking of funny shit going down
17:25:11 <cheater__> guy in ##electronics joins in, asks if we know how to scan rfid in credit cards and personal id's
17:25:26 <cheater__> asked why he needs this, he says there's some guy stealing from him periodically
17:25:50 <cheater__> basically, he leaves behind expensive stuff (in the city at that, not suburbia) standing around in front of the garage or in the car
17:25:56 <cheater__> he's lost thousands of dollars
17:25:59 <cheater__> installed some cameras
17:26:13 <cheater__> but he can't get an ID because it's usually dark at night
17:26:30 <cheater__> so he figures, he saw some guys at defcon scan credit cards at a distance
17:26:41 <cheater__> and he figures the thief must have a credit card on him
17:26:46 <cheater__> so now he's trying to figure out how to do it
17:26:51 <cheater__> first world problem
17:27:03 <cheater__> low tech solution: don't leave your shit for people to steal
17:27:46 <cheater__> kmc: tip for nuggets, a drop of green tabasco and a dash of lime juice is all they need to taste better
17:32:29 <kmc> nice
17:32:31 <kmc> tabasco is great
17:32:56 <cheater__> i don't use it too often
17:33:07 <kmc> i use it all the damn time
17:33:13 <cheater__> but it's good used every now and then in moderation
17:33:18 <cheater__> is your mouth like a kiln
17:33:20 <cheater__> kmc
17:33:26 <cheater__> is your tongue all lacerated
17:33:36 <kmc> i like spicy food and i like vinegar taste
17:35:06 <cheater__> do you like woucester sauce
17:35:12 <ion> It’s a bit too vinegary for my taste.
17:35:16 <kmc> i think so, but i don't have it often enough to say for sure
17:35:18 <ion> Tabasco, that is.
17:35:19 <cheater__> tabasco or WS
17:35:31 <kmc> vinegar, tabasco, and sriracha are some of my favorite seasonings
17:35:37 <cheater__> kmc: how do you pronounce it, wor-chest-er or wooster?
17:36:04 <ion> I’d like to taste sriracha, but i haven’t found any yet.
17:36:07 <kmc> the one i know is named Worcestershire sauce
17:36:11 <cheater__> yeah
17:36:14 <kmc> and pronounce wus-ter-sher
17:36:21 <kmc> fucking brits am i rite
17:36:26 <cheater__> i keep on arguing with people here
17:36:32 <cheater__> who all pronounce it incorrectly
17:36:38 <cheater__> and they look at me like i'm fucking stupid
17:38:21 <kmc> well it's a stupid pronunciation even if it's "correct"
17:42:58 <cheater__> wfm
17:43:31 <kmc> basically i think people should know what's "correct" but should feel free to ignore it for sanity or consistency
17:43:42 <cheater__> i guess you can't appreciate real historical value living in a country halfway predated by the house i live in
17:43:50 <kmc> :D
17:44:22 <cheater__> ;P
17:47:02 <cheater__> i mean the american history is so recent i'm surprised it hasn't been televised from the very beginning
17:47:23 <kmc> yeah
17:47:56 <kmc> but the flip side is that our history is way more important and everything else is irrelevant
17:48:07 <kmc> in fact glorious leader george w. bush has brought about the end of history
17:48:28 <cheater__> yep
17:48:34 <cheater__> however, kmc
17:48:36 <cheater__> the revolution
17:48:38 <cheater__> will not
17:48:41 <cheater__> be televised
17:48:58 <cheater__> shit i wasn't wrong
17:48:59 <kmc> it will be livetumblr'd
17:49:11 <cheater__> my house actually IS about 50% the age of your country
17:49:22 <cheater__> usa is what
17:49:30 <cheater__> 223 years old?
17:49:55 <cheater__> 229 years old
17:50:03 <cheater__> my house is 113 years old
17:50:08 <cheater__> nearly there
17:50:20 <cheater__> 3 more years
17:50:30 <cheater__> haha fuckin' a.
17:50:33 <kmc> it's a little older than that depending on how you count
17:51:05 <kmc> but yeah like 238 years max
17:51:21 <cheater__> we count starting the time other people stopped calling your ramshacks a colony
17:51:33 <cheater__> ;D
17:52:45 <shachaf> kmc: Remember back when Wireshark was called Ethereal?
17:52:55 <shachaf> I wanted to install it in Ubuntu but I was having problems.
17:52:59 <cheater__> those were the days, shachaf
17:53:10 <shachaf> So I searched for «ethereal universe».
17:53:12 <cheater__> good ol' ethereal.
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17:54:41 <cheater__> hey kmc you know what's really hot
17:54:47 <cheater__> olive oil with pepper in it
17:54:51 <kmc> that sounds p. good
17:55:02 <cheater__> T KMC WHAT
17:55:45 <cheater__> have you ever tried any of that stuff
17:55:57 <cheater__> it's really nice and hot
17:56:10 <cheater__> you don't feel the heat until you're done chewing and it goes down your throat
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18:10:04 <AnotherTest> hello
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18:15:54 <cheater__> kmc do you like asian food http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/images/1200/DSC_4023.jpg
18:16:45 <kmc> yes
18:17:12 <kmc> i'm having trouble decoding this one
18:17:32 <kmc> i think the first one says that if I don't wash my hands after taking a shit, I will get sick
18:18:06 <kmc> also ways of killing flies
18:26:27 <cheater__> do you know chinese
18:26:38 <cheater__> here's some chinese porn for you http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/images/1200/DSC_4053.jpg
18:28:26 <kmc> i don't know chinese
18:28:30 <kmc> that sucks
18:28:43 <cheater__> why
18:29:23 <kmc> it sucks to have diarrhea and vomitosis at the same time
18:29:26 <cheater__> ok guess what this one is http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/images/1200/DSC_4082.jpg
18:29:37 <kmc> aids?
18:29:40 <cheater__> no
18:29:42 <cheater__> near
18:29:48 <kmc> herpes?
18:30:17 <cheater__> lol, no.
18:30:23 <cheater__> i was thinking edit distance.
18:30:23 <kmc> swine flu
18:30:27 <cheater__> declaration of war on SARS
18:30:28 <kmc> sars?
18:30:29 <kmc> aha
18:30:31 <cheater__> sars ~ aids
18:30:39 <cheater__> ur so clever kmc
18:30:44 <kmc> ah the grumpy little fellows are
18:30:45 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS_coronavirus
18:30:47 <cheater__> you almost guessed quicker than i told you
18:31:03 <AnotherTest> Does anyone happen to know of any good papers about techniques for prevention of distributed denial of service attacks?
18:31:18 <cheater__> no
18:31:35 <cheater__> because mostly it's a big business that people don't share their techniques in
18:31:53 <AnotherTest> surely, there must be some papers?
18:31:56 <cheater__> kmc: lol @ "grumpy little fellows"
18:32:28 <cheater__> AnotherTest: meh
18:33:50 <kmc> cheater__: have you read http://www.vice.com/read/life-is-a-cosmic-giggle-803-v18n5
18:34:00 <cheater__> kmc: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/images/1200/DSC_4057.jpg
18:34:18 <cheater__> more http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/chineseposters/index.html
18:34:38 <cheater__> kmc is that the one about the junkie girl
18:34:52 <cheater__> how did i know what you'd post
18:34:54 <cheater__> oh, kmc.
18:35:24 <cheater__> have a look at that jpg i just posted, but not before you drop some acid and put on your stoner goggles
18:36:07 <kmc> no thx
18:36:55 <cheater__> As your attorney, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And you'll need the cocaine. Tape recorder for special music. Acapulco shirts.
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18:47:58 <cheater__> kmc: r u unhappy b/cuz i stereotyped u
18:48:04 <kmc> no
18:48:06 <kmc> i'm not unhappy
18:48:24 <shachaf> kmc: I read that article!
18:49:07 <kmc> cool shachaf
18:49:31 <shachaf> It was mostly when you posted it in the other channel a few minutes ago.
18:49:39 <kmc> ok
18:50:02 <cheater__> i think you posted it like last year
18:50:03 <cheater__> or so
18:51:37 <cheater__> *+ago
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18:56:28 <cheater__> man, the renamer script for vim is a lifesaver
18:56:57 <shachaf> == kmc in the other channel.
18:57:06 <shachaf> I typically try not to get involved in this argument.
18:59:03 -!- zzo38 has set topic: SPOILER ALERT: You die in the end | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric.
18:59:27 <oerjan> YOU HAVE NO PROOF OF THAT
19:00:03 <shachaf> zzo38: I peeked at the end of the book and I'm still alive.
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19:01:46 <Taneb> Hello!
19:02:46 <shachaf> Haneb
19:11:22 <zzo38> shachaf: No, you looked at the wrong page. The correct book is the one with poison on the end, therefore it will kill you too
19:17:08 <cheater__> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57411977-1/the-black-hole-los-alamos-lab-surplus-store-surprises/
19:18:40 <cheater__> experienced this so often: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4528.html
19:20:10 <nortti> ?
19:26:28 <cheater__> http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity4513.html
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20:14:18 <nortti> Although left-handed people make up only 10 percent of the population as a whole, they compose a full 20 percent of schizophrenics. Is it because all those right-handed can openers slowly drive them mad? Possibly. "
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20:23:56 <nortti> "That's right: Ovoviviparous sharks eat each other in the womb. Particularly nurse sharks, which just proves that science loves irony."
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20:58:29 <quintopia> hard computing problem: is it possible to have a computable program that 1) computes any non-halting program given as input and 2) assuming that the program's internal state at time t is P(t), eventually computes P(t) by simulation of itself for all t?
21:00:11 <quintopia> Let's say that it must eventually output a complete summary of all the actions it did at any given step in its self-simulation, while also producing whatever output the input program would produce.
21:00:28 <quintopia> it would be like using gdb to debug gdb
21:00:58 <quintopia> where the underlying gdb was always being used for the same purpose
21:04:53 <cheater__> no idea but sounds fun
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21:20:55 <cheater__> very lulzy trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&v=ZJkd5X2aG34&NR=1
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21:33:00 <quintopia> ais523:
21:33:09 <quintopia> 16:58 < quintopia> hard computing problem: is it possible to have a computable program that 1) computes any non-halting program given as input and 2) assuming that the program's internal state at time t is P(t), eventually computes P(t) by simulation of itself for all t?
21:33:14 <quintopia> 17:00 < quintopia> Let's say that it must eventually output a complete summary of all the actions it did at any given step in its self-simulation, while also producing whatever output the input program would produce.
21:33:19 <quintopia> 17:00 < quintopia> it would be like using gdb to debug gdb
21:33:23 <quintopia> 17:00 < quintopia> where the underlying gdb was always being used for the same purpose
21:34:08 <ais523> err, hmm, don't want to think about that right now :)
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21:57:32 <Phantom_Hoover> omg
21:57:39 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc's first name is keegan???
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22:12:52 <ion> http://i.imgur.com/sX0i5.gif
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22:19:48 <cheater__> haha
22:20:12 <cheater__> ion: amazing
22:20:34 <cheater__> Phantom_Hoover: welcome to 1990
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23:02:10 <itidus20> ok thats funny
23:02:49 <itidus20> possibly burn scars for life.. but funny
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23:10:52 <pikhq_> itidus20: ?
23:11:09 <itidus20> @ ion's link
23:11:37 <pikhq_> Ah. :)
23:16:25 <itidus20> The helmet... it does nothing!
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23:35:42 <itidus20> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=r84d-msuyp0#t=32s
23:36:48 <ion> Someone should record that youtube video from their screen using a phone camera and upload that to youtube.
23:37:39 <itidus20> sorry this link
23:37:45 <itidus20> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r84d-msuyp0&t=32s
23:37:53 <itidus20> can ignore the first one
23:38:10 <ion> It’s the same one.
23:38:22 <itidus20> yes but i don't like the first url...
23:38:29 <itidus20> it didn't work right for me
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