←2012-05-16 2012-05-17 2012-05-18→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:43:24 <ais523> bleh, just accidentally deleted my entire email inbox
00:43:49 <ais523> I have a backup from February, and there hasn't been much important since; but it was my work email not my home email, which has been backed up more recently by the work people, I hope
00:44:17 <coppro> oops
00:44:28 <ais523> meanwhile, something is creating files in my home directory that look like PEM certificates (but are the wrong length), and have names that look suspiciously like uninitialized memory
00:46:15 <ais523> I doubt there's anyone around to restore it from backup at quarter to 2, though
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01:44:16 <ais523> hmm, are there any asm interps?
01:44:32 <ais523> as in, not machine code interps, but things that interp the actual asm itself without assembling it?
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02:00:13 <madbr> ais523: what's the point
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02:00:57 <ais523> something I saw in the Oracle v Google court case
02:01:07 <ais523> apparently Oracle have a patent so badly worded it probably doesn't apply to anything
02:01:14 <ais523> I was wondering if it might apply to an asm interp
02:01:22 <ais523> I can't think of much point for having one of those either, though…
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02:04:59 <coppro> haha
02:05:06 <coppro> ais523: create an esolang based on patent claims
02:05:12 <ais523> heh
02:05:17 <ais523> most illegal esolang ever
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02:09:00 <madbr> what current patent is the most ridiculous one anyways?
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02:44:17 <zzo38> I don't know
02:44:25 <zzo38> Maybe all of them
02:44:30 <coppro> ais523: x SUES y
02:44:32 <coppro> SETTLE
02:44:39 <ais523> hmm
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03:00:54 <madbr> needs to have one particularly egregious patent owned by a notably sue happy company
03:06:15 <ais523> the problem is that patents keep expiring
03:10:04 <madbr> true
03:10:15 <madbr> the lzw one was a winner
03:10:33 <madbr> what about the ones on mp3%?
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03:43:36 <quintopia> madbr: i choose the patent on a mouse. how can you patent a freakin' mouse?
04:00:28 <madbr> dunno how you'll make a programming language with that? :D
04:00:51 <coppro> quintopia: it took a lot of work to get it that tiny
04:01:08 <coppro> quintopia: I mean, look at the little eyes
04:01:10 <coppro> and the tiny feet
04:01:15 <coppro> that's serious creativity there
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04:02:20 <quintopia> coppro: you mean serious stupidity? a modern engineer totally could have put the same functionality in half the space with lower energy consumption and heat output. and it would probably last longer too.
04:02:32 <coppro> no way man
04:02:44 <coppro> how would it eat all the cheese?
04:04:30 <quintopia> i wouldn't call that a "feature"
04:06:11 <kmc> come back when your robot mouse is self-healing and self-replicating
04:06:50 <kmc> self-replicating using a feedstock of garbage and air
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04:11:26 <quintopia> kmc: it doesn't have to be self-healing. it just needs to not break at all before *average mouse lifespan*
04:11:50 <quintopia> also, that self-replicating thing? also not a feature. stealing food from humans? not feature.
04:12:08 <kmc> i don't know who you think wrote the requirements document for a mouse
04:13:43 <quintopia> a blind idiot god
04:14:01 <quintopia> although
04:14:12 <quintopia> the scientists who gengineered and patented a mouse
04:14:20 <quintopia> probably also had a requirements document
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04:28:45 <pikhq> I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god".
04:29:08 <quintopia> pikhq: to what?
04:29:29 <pikhq> To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse.
04:31:26 <quintopia> yeah. it's weird.
04:32:22 <ais523> `addquote <pikhq> I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god". <quintopia> pikhq: to what? <pikhq> To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse.
04:32:25 <HackEgo> 853) <pikhq> I vastly prefer "a blind idiot god". <quintopia> pikhq: to what? <pikhq> To the idea of someone actually intentionally designing a mouse.
04:33:18 <quintopia> ais523: a keyboard should be enough for anyone.
04:35:23 <zzo38> Keyboard is good for many things. For some things it helps to use both keyboard and mouse together
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04:41:20 <quintopia> zzo38: like what? everything a mouse does, something else can do it better. drawing? wacom tablet. FPS aiming? joystick/thumbstick. every user interface ever? if you can't use the keyboard for them, they should be redesigned.
04:41:55 <quintopia> 3D design? 3D "ball" controller
04:42:21 <madbr> still beats touch interface
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04:48:04 <zzo38> quintopia: O, well, yes those things work too. And, yes, if you cannot use the keyboard for some interface, it should probably be redesigned to work with keyboard. The purpose for the mouse is selecting a point on the screen, is what I intended to mean.
04:48:50 <quintopia> zzo38: selecting a point on the screen is easier with a wacom tablet
04:48:56 <zzo38> Anything where you need to select a point on the screen work by mouse, other things work by keyboard. Sometimes you may want to enter coordinates or other ways to identify something on screen by keyboard too.
04:49:29 <zzo38> quintopia: O, I didn't know that.
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04:59:30 <zzo38> For example, in Astrolog, all functions can be accessed by keyboard, but you can push right mouse button to click on the world map and set the current location to where you clicked, and left mouse button to draw on the current chart. It is better than many programs which lack this kinds of keyboard interface.
05:00:51 <zzo38> In MegaZeux, the DOS version you could click on the menu to activate an option, or use keys on keyboard. The mouse could not be used to select a command in new version. Some people wanted to restore it, but I never intended to restore it; however I have improved both keyboard and mouse function of MegaZeux. Now all three mouse buttons can be used, and there are many more keyboard commands, and can be entered more quickly than before.
05:02:51 <zzo38> Dialog boxes in MegaZeux were, to activate a command button, you have to click it or tab over to it, but I have changed it so that you can also activate a command button by pushing the corresponding function key on the keyboard.
05:03:43 <zzo38> Do you agree?
05:03:57 <zzo38> Disagree?
05:04:01 <zzo38> Neither agree nor disagree?
05:05:18 <madbr> yeah keyboards are grate for the middle and late part of the learning curve
05:05:26 <madbr> and for non-spatial stuff
05:06:14 <quintopia> i agree
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05:20:13 <zzo38> How can you get USB device to emit infrared signals?
05:21:24 <madbr> light it on fire
05:21:37 <madbr> it will emit infrared light! :D
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05:41:39 <zzo38> No, I mean signals, such as for TV, VCR, DVD, etc
05:42:52 <zzo38> If I make function in Haskell to make [x, y, z] into (x . y . z) and another function for make [x, y, z] into (z . y . x) then what should these functions be called?
05:42:52 <ais523> zzo38: I imagine you could make something yourself out of a microcontroller and infrared diode
05:43:19 <ais523> zzo38: foldCompose and foldComposeReverse, perhaps?
05:43:26 <ais523> they're just special cases of folds
05:43:29 <zzo38> ais523: OK.
05:43:52 <zzo38> ais523: Yes I do know they are special case of folds.
05:44:16 <ais523> so it makes sense to use a name that reflects that
05:45:44 <zzo38> I just don't want it too long, such as maybe "compose" or "composes" or "foldC" or I don't know what else
05:51:37 <zzo38> Maybe another name do you know?
05:51:55 <zzo38> Is there any existing libraries with such functions?
05:52:25 <zzo38> I intended to use with any category, so you have :: (Foldable t, Category c) => t (c x x) -> c x x
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05:54:20 <zzo38> Such as there is already function called "fold" in Data.Foldable which is similar but for monoid
06:03:13 <zzo38> But there should be forward and backward.
06:03:28 <zzo38> I could use "foldCompose" and "foldComposeReverse" but it seem slightly long to me
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06:33:59 <zzo38> Package "chalmers-lava2000" has a similar function under the name "compose", but only one direction. It also has "composeN" which is like the function "church" in my program.
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09:22:13 <Taneb> Hello!
09:26:43 <Sgeo> Hi
09:26:50 <Sgeo> Taneb, did you see the update?
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09:27:11 <Taneb> DD: Ascend more casually?
09:27:13 <Taneb> Yeah
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10:46:43 <ion> https://github.com/mroth/lolcommits#readme
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12:35:09 <elliott> hi
12:36:47 <ais523> hi
12:40:14 <elliott> hi
12:43:50 <Phantom_Hoover> hi
12:44:33 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/fqn9e/any_of_you_ever_been_shot_what_exactly_does_that/c1hwy10?context=5#c1hwy10
12:47:14 <Gregor> OH YOU
12:52:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Getting shot with a handgun is surprisingly survivable, apparently.
12:53:11 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Whooooooooooo
12:53:13 <elliott> ooooooo
12:53:15 <Phantom_Hoover> dude
12:53:17 <elliott> ooooo cough splutter hack oooo
12:53:17 <Phantom_Hoover> i read the link
12:53:19 <Phantom_Hoover> obviously
12:53:22 <elliott> sh.
12:53:30 <Phantom_Hoover> i can't improve on that
12:53:37 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I thought you were assuming he, like, blacked out and woke up in hospital or something.
12:53:40 <Phantom_Hoover> there's nothing i can say
12:53:41 <elliott> I don't know, you're Scottish.
12:53:44 <elliott> Scots are morons.
12:53:52 <Phantom_Hoover> dude in scotland we don't black out
12:53:53 <elliott> I can't predict their thought patterns.
12:53:56 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Oh.
12:53:59 <Phantom_Hoover> we grab the blood and shove it back in
12:54:00 <elliott> Do you just die instead?
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12:58:35 <elliott> I think Phantom_Hoover just died.
12:58:48 <Phantom_Hoover> I died quite a long time ago.
12:59:13 <elliott> Oh. Right.
12:59:14 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean when have I ever been just 'Hoover'?
12:59:18 <elliott> More evidence of Scot weakness.
13:00:18 <itidus21> unfortunately, the better someone is at killing, the less likelihood you can stay on their good side
13:00:35 <itidus21> it's called the depressing paradox of doom
13:00:42 <itidus21> oops not paradox
13:01:13 <itidus21> just.. depressing consequenece of doom
13:02:02 <itidus21> basically, putting what i said in english,
13:02:36 <itidus21> a person who shoots at you for looking at them the wrong way will be a better shot than a person who shoots at you due to your attempt to burgle their home
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13:03:01 <Phantom_Hoover> Deep thinking from itidus21.
13:05:15 <itidus21> it's the sort of thing you think about when you're conflict avoidant
13:06:01 <itidus21> one post too many
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13:20:19 -!- Gregor has set topic: Welcome to #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language P.
13:20:29 <Gregor> ...
13:20:30 <Gregor> Dahell
13:20:43 -!- Gregor has set topic: Welcome to #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, for that language please visit www.perl.org or #perl - logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
13:20:52 <elliott> That's wayyyy too retro
13:21:54 -!- elliott has set topic: HIowp; welcome toj ie#esoteirc its eosnaletierc progaming lnauges odeisgn dpeojylment - jojekaengurne prlk jeoirt.org #perkljsd - logpsje http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
13:22:15 <elliott> Gregor: i improve
13:22:52 -!- Gregor has set topic: #esoteric-en for non-Finnish discussion | HIowp; welcome toj ie#esoteirc its eosnaletierc progaming lnauges odeisgn dpeojylment - jojekaengurne prlk jeoirt.org #perkljsd - logpsje http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
13:24:00 <elliott> XD
13:24:07 <ion> Kas, tervehdys.
13:24:25 <elliott> daïïaka lopëetumenos
13:24:59 <ion> Päivää, elliott. Pelliott.
13:42:12 <nortti> elliott: mitä daïïaka lopëetumenos tarkoittaa?
13:42:52 <elliott> nortti: Täouvä pitëmaani.
13:43:19 <nortti> elliott: mitä kieltä se oikein on?
13:43:34 <elliott> ion: What the hell is nortti saying? It's sure not Finnish.
13:43:57 <nortti> elliott: it is. I say
13:44:26 <nortti> *said "what language is that written in"
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13:53:30 <ion> elliott: I think he’s trying to talk in pseudo-Finnish but doesn’t actually understand Finnish.
13:53:51 <elliott> ion: How disruptive. We don't need to waste our time with such silliness.
13:53:57 <elliott> We're here to talk about esolangs!
13:57:32 <nortti> eikö kukaan muu ole #esoteri-en kanavalla?
13:59:10 <elliott> Eätii mistaan eëina kotuä.
14:00:27 <nortti> tuo näyttää eestiltä
14:01:31 <Gregor> Olipakerrannainenvenusjonkaruumismuotoinen.
14:03:02 <nortti> Onceuponatimewerewomanvenuswhosecorpseshape?
14:03:38 <kmc> Hilipati hilipati hilipati hillaa hilipati hilipati hilipampaa
14:04:20 <ion> Onceuponatimeawomanvenuswhosecorpseshaped.
14:04:28 <ion> whoops
14:04:36 <ion> Onceuponatimetherewasawomanvenuswhosecorpseshaped.
14:05:22 <KingOfKarlsruhe> Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft
14:06:25 <elliott> Slkfhdskjakgdhfjslghdg
14:08:20 <Gregor> `words --finnish 50
14:08:24 <HackEgo> taisi henemältänsä iloiturvalla tuloero tustamilta uupistamme tiuksemme kehkumiensä nelleni suosioivoittämän lämyrkyttä kattisesi saampinnoitsemme alhailemmassa sillenne agisesi hajoisemaaville tiukoon jylisempiä kasensa reintumallaan änköhän kyttiloitteellisemmalle aloisimmastu tihkiatyttänsä
14:14:47 <Lumpio-> wut
14:14:56 <Lumpio-> o__Ô
14:15:07 <fizzie> `words --finnish --swedish 20
14:15:10 <HackEgo> föraktivt peisimme muismenteissani pykälla löytyks fysioniemme frättadein keillt olättamme saiståt vansa straahtuvamp algodwiniviss koller budademo fånight källdes afrisevistummarkterapolt sädetsään biograbelt
14:15:34 <Lumpio-> Randomly generated words huh
14:15:39 <Lumpio-> Those... kind of
14:15:40 <Lumpio-> er
14:15:40 <fizzie> Afrisevistummarkterapolt.
14:15:47 <Lumpio-> They throw my brain into a weird loop
14:15:54 <Lumpio-> Stop DOSing my brain
14:18:50 <Phantom_Hoover> jjgieajjjgbi9eeealllnneee
14:18:53 <Phantom_Hoover> im finn
14:19:01 <elliott> `words --finnish 10
14:19:05 <HackEgo> ilmallentiallamien malta aloittumalla optalisimmiltä labamastamaastamiksen hawkinne jäärisempimeto kiehtivastaattavia entäviävineeksesi tuneillenittamassa
14:19:22 <elliott> It isn't very good at vowel harmony.
14:19:28 <elliott> `pastlog markov assumption 0
14:19:32 <Kray> wtf I just read
14:19:42 <elliott> Kray: Finnish!
14:20:00 <HackEgo> No output.
14:20:05 <elliott> `pastlog markov assumption
14:20:16 <HackEgo> 2011-08-26.txt:20:09:35: <fizzie> Given that what you get from an n-gram is (n-1) words of context, I think it's pretty safe bet to say that the Markov assumption (of order n-1) will hold for most things you do with them.
14:20:31 <elliott> fizzie: Oh come on.
14:20:32 <elliott> `pastlog markov assumption
14:20:39 <HackEgo> 2011-08-26.txt:20:09:35: <fizzie> Given that what you get from an n-gram is (n-1) words of context, I think it's pretty safe bet to say that the Markov assumption (of order n-1) will hold for most things you do with them.
14:20:43 <elliott> How many things involving the Markov assumption can you say, you speech recognition researcher?
14:20:45 <elliott> `pastlog markov assumption
14:20:52 <HackEgo> 2011-09-26.txt:16:54:56: <fizzie> tehporPekaC: There's an alternative solution which will always hit the target length, and thanks to the Markov assumption really shouldn't affect the distribution of the last characters of a word: when generating a word of length K with trigrams, first generate K-2 characters so that you ignore all "xy " entries. For the penultimate character, only consider such trigrams "xyz" for
14:21:04 <elliott> `pastlog markov assumption
14:21:10 <HackEgo> 2011-09-26.txt:13:03:19: <fizzie> CakeProphet: Certainly there are different ways to do language models; I just can't offhand figure out how to make a (sensible) language model that would use n-grams but not have the (n-1)-order Markov assumption.
14:21:57 <fizzie> I say it a lot, yes.
14:22:01 <elliott> `pastlog markov assumption
14:22:09 <HackEgo> 2011-09-26.txt:16:54:56: <fizzie> tehporPekaC: There's an alternative solution which will always hit the target length, and thanks to the Markov assumption really shouldn't affect the distribution of the last characters of a word: when generating a word of length K with trigrams, first generate K-2 characters so that you ignore all "xy " entries. For the penultimate character, only consider such trigrams "xyz" for
14:22:12 <elliott> Oh fuck it.
14:22:18 <elliott> `pastelogs markov assumption
14:22:25 <Gregor> Potkin teidän apina sitten käyttänyt vuohi.
14:22:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11442
14:22:27 <itidus21> go hackego!
14:22:39 <elliott> 2011-12-23.txt:09:46:31: <fizzie> "säänellaan" -- broken vowel harmony 1, Markov assumption 0.
14:22:47 <elliott> Thank you, HackEgo. (No thank you for the broken encoding.)
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14:57:38 <Taneb> Hello
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14:59:31 <elliott> hi
15:00:07 <Taneb> Well, that package I've been working on for so long is on Hackage now
15:00:14 <elliott> Oh dear.
15:00:32 <Taneb> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/family-tree
15:00:33 <elliott> Taneb: OtherLicense?
15:00:39 <elliott> I found it in the recently-uploaded log.
15:00:56 <Taneb> MIT. Apparently older versions of Cabal have issues with that
15:01:00 <elliott> You should really put version constraints on those dependencies. And use cereal instead of binary. (And a license that isn't Other :P)
15:01:06 <elliott> Ah.
15:01:25 <Taneb> What advantages does Cereal have over Binary?
15:01:29 <elliott> FWIW, BSD3 is basically isomorphic to MIT and supported by every version of Cabal. But it's no big deal (except for people that'll be scared away by seeing OtherLicense).
15:02:07 <elliott> Taneb: Not really all that many, admittedly, since I see that binary just got a new release (previously it hadn't been updated since 2009). But it, uh, supports IEEE-format floats.
15:02:11 <elliott> (And uses strict ByteStrings.)
15:02:31 <elliott> OK, let me look at this code.
15:02:45 <elliott> This module is for Family Trees.
15:02:45 <elliott> It's got lenses, which are pretty cool.
15:02:45 <elliott> I would use "Data.Binary" to do saving and loading.
15:02:47 <elliott> is this a poem?
15:02:49 <elliott> *Is
15:02:56 <elliott> Module : $Header$
15:03:01 <elliott> You're meant to put the module name here :P
15:03:04 <Taneb> The syllables are wrong
15:03:17 <elliott> (But I don't bother with that first header block, it does nothing.)
15:03:17 <Taneb> And I was panicking about an exam when I uploaded it!
15:03:45 <Taneb> And I mix lazy and strict types wantonly
15:03:49 <elliott> Taneb: Well, your code has gotten a lot better than when you wrote that Latin program :P
15:03:58 <Taneb> Yup!
15:04:04 <elliott> I'm a bit worried about "Lens FamilyTree Person", however.
15:04:15 <elliott> I suspect personLens does not obey the lens laws in all circumstances.
15:04:31 <Taneb> How so?
15:04:36 <elliott> Well, I suspect what you really want is Lens FamilyTree (Maybe Person).
15:04:55 <elliott> In line with mapLens/intMapLens.
15:04:56 <Taneb> That probably goes with all the lenses
15:05:02 <Taneb> :/
15:05:10 <elliott> Taneb: Well, it might behave oddly when you pass an invalid identifier, although actually I think it should obey all the lens laws.
15:05:22 <elliott> (Maybe Person) has the advantage that you can use the lens to DELETE SOMEONE FROM EXISTENCE.
15:06:02 <Taneb> I thought about that, thought it would be hard to code, avoided it, and later realised it'd be easy to code
15:06:15 <Taneb> But it's marked as unstabe, so I guess I can make changes like that?
15:06:20 <elliott> It's easier if you use lookup rather than HM.(!).
15:06:26 <elliott> You can make changes like that even if it isn't unstable.
15:06:28 <elliott> Just follow the PVP.
15:06:41 <elliott> (Which... admittedly you haven't so far, since your version should have more digits.)
15:07:00 <elliott> Taneb: You can write (fmap f $ x) as (f <$> x) (with Control.Applicative).
15:07:25 <Taneb> Or Data.Functor, iirc
15:07:31 <elliott> Ah, yes, it's in there too.
15:07:50 <elliott> You could also write your Family get as Family <$> get <*> get <*> get <*> fmap ModifiedJulianDay get <*> fmap ModifiedJulianDay get <*> get.
15:07:58 <elliott> But obviously you lose the field namse.
15:07:59 <elliott> *names
15:08:26 <Taneb> I wrote it so I could panic and completely change the data types later with ease?
15:08:39 <elliott> I'm not complaining, just suggesting :P
15:08:54 -!- ais523 has quit.
15:08:58 <Taneb> And I'm rationalizing rather than refuting
15:09:04 <Taneb> I'm also running out of battery
15:09:25 <elliott> Other than that, it looks good to me, although I'm dubious of the partial pattern-matches in add{Person,Family,Event}; you might also like to use lenses for the records themselves, with data-lens-template, so you can avoid Haskell's ugliness when modifying record values.
15:10:12 <Taneb> What partial pattern matches?
15:10:17 <Taneb> Oh, those partial pattern matches
15:10:20 <elliott> let ((n,_):_) = dropWhile (uncurry (==)) $
15:10:20 <elliott> zip [1..] $ IM.keys $ families familyTree
15:10:30 <elliott> I don't believe this works if families FamilyTree is empty.
15:10:32 <elliott> *familyTree
15:10:49 <elliott> Which is odd, because I don't see why you shouldn't be able to add a family to an empty family tree.
15:11:44 <elliott> By the way, I would suggest doing
15:11:49 <elliott> newtype ID = ID Int
15:11:57 <elliott> and then using an export list and doing ID, ... so you don't export a constructor.
15:12:16 <elliott> That way, ID acts as an abstract key, and people can't do funny business like making up their own IDs out of nowhere.
15:12:22 <Taneb> Yeah, it fails
15:12:43 <elliott> (Although you still want to use Maybe for the Lens, since you can delete things and hold on to the key.)
15:12:47 <Taneb> Damn...
15:13:04 <Taneb> First thing to fix for 0.1.1!
15:13:32 <elliott> And I've run out of things to complain about^W^Wsuggest!
15:14:47 <Taneb> Yay!
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16:33:12 <elliott> @tell monqy Remind me not to stairdance packs of gnolls.
16:33:12 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:33:22 <elliott> Wait, I thought this was /query lambdabot.
16:33:26 <elliott> Oh well, it worked.
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17:52:17 <zzo38> How many people in here are English and how many are Finnish and how many neither or both?
17:52:30 <itidus20> <-- australia
17:52:47 <Gregor> That's a lie, he's Finnish.
17:53:25 <elliott> itidus20 *is* Australia.
17:54:26 <itidus20> <-- australiae
17:54:30 <fizzie> RAW >>> :barjavel.freenode.net NOTICE fungot :*** Notice -- You need to identify via SASL to use this server <<<
17:54:34 <fizzie> How rude.
17:57:08 <itidus20> Hey, you're not permitted in there fungot. It's restricted. You'll
17:57:09 <itidus20> be deactivated for sure..
17:59:26 <fizzie> It's not something it used to do.
18:00:29 <itidus20> Don't call me a mindless philosopher fungot, you overweight glob of grease!
18:02:14 <fizzie> Sadly, fungot does not support SASL at the moment.
18:02:46 <itidus20> i had to say it anyway
18:03:10 <elliott> fizzie: Pick a different server?
18:06:03 <fizzie> Servers that say the same: lindbohm, kornbluth, holmes, calvino. It seems to be a thing.
18:08:13 -!- nooga has joined.
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18:10:40 -!- itidus20 has joined.
18:11:10 <fizzie> It says the same thing for this box I'm internetting from when connecting over v4, but not when doing it over (tunneled) v6. I suppose my ISP has just been too freenode-abusey lately, or something.
18:12:28 -!- itidus20 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
18:12:39 <fizzie> Incidentally, according to the FAQ -- http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nocloakonjoin -- doing SASL will fix the "cloak isn't always set before autojoin". Not sure this came up when it was (recently) discussed.
18:16:54 <fizzie> (I don't think my bouncer does SASL either.)
18:17:34 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:19:45 <fizzie> "Any way to use sasl with bip? No.", added to the bip FAQ exactly eight days ago. How coincidental.
18:19:48 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
18:20:07 <elliott> Heh.
18:21:15 <Gregor> Glad I have no desire to cloak.
18:22:08 <fizzie> I don't care about the cloak.
18:22:16 <fizzie> But I would like to connect at all.
18:22:59 <fizzie> Which I no longer can. (Well, except over v6. But fungot doesn't support IPv6 either, since the SOCK fingerprint doesn't.)
18:23:19 <elliott> fizzie: Are you sure another server won't work?
18:23:28 <elliott> Anyway, nortti whined about this a few days ago, ask him what he did.
18:23:55 <zzo38> Then reprogram the SOCK fingerprint.
18:24:02 <fizzie> I tried five, I'm not sure I can bother to try more.
18:24:14 <fizzie> He identified using SASL, if I remember correctly.
18:25:12 <elliott> fizzie: Do you have a VPS?
18:25:16 <elliott> Try running your bouncer there.
18:26:03 <fizzie> I could do that, that's true.
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18:28:50 <fizzie> I wonder if any of the sensible bouncers do SASL. I know ZNC has a module, but I can't recall if that was one of the sensible ones. On a quick glance it seemed slightly overengineered. (Browser-based administration support, plugins in four languages?)
18:29:14 <elliott> ZNC is what Vorpal uses, so don't.
18:29:26 <elliott> I used miau a while back. But I sort of doubt it supports SASL.
18:33:20 <fizzie> Oh, also the ZNC sasl module is for doing SASL authentication of the clients, not SASL identification towards the server that freenode has. I guess I'll just go via the VPS.
18:35:29 <elliott> fizzie: What's a nice way of saying max(n, 0) without using max?
18:35:37 <elliott> (Just basic arithmetic.)
18:37:17 <fizzie> (n+abs(n))/2?
18:37:41 <elliott> fizzie: That... might work, but it'd be done with floats.
18:37:58 <elliott> (There is (integer) div and mod, however.)
18:39:22 <fizzie> For fixed-size integers, it of course has some overflow issues.
18:39:45 <elliott> They're smal lintegers.
18:39:49 <elliott> *small integers
18:39:58 <elliott> Would floating-point rounding not come into play? I don't have an intuition for it.
18:40:10 <elliott> (Also I'd sort of prefer to avoid repeating n in the expression, but...)
18:48:00 <elliott> THX FIZZIE
18:49:00 <fizzie> If n is a small integer, I would think all of n, abs(n), n+abs(n) and (n+abs(n))/2 would be exact even when done as floats. But of course that's just a guess. You could round the result to nearest integer (with any behaviour for 0.5-ish cases), I suppose.
18:49:37 <elliott> fizzie: The repeating thing is just because
18:49:38 <elliott> -{{#expr: ({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) / 2 round0}}px
18:49:39 <elliott> isn't the prettiest.
18:49:53 -!- monqy has joined.
18:49:56 <elliott> Especially as part of this line:
18:49:58 <elliott> | {{ns:10}} = <div style="display:none; right:{{#expr: {{{number|{{{icon_nr|0}}}}}}*(2+{{{width|15}}})+10+{{{offset|{{{extra_offset|0}}}}}} }}px; {{{style|}}}" class="metadata topicon nopopups {{{class|}}}" {{#if:{{{id|}}}|id="{{{id}}}"}}><div style="margin-top: -{{#expr: ({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) / 2 round0}}px">[[File:{{{image|{{{imagename}}}}}}|{{{width|15}}}px|{{#if:{{{link|}}}{{{wi
18:49:58 <elliott> kilink|}}}|link={{{link|{{{wikilink|}}}}}}}}|{{{text|{{{description}}}}}}]]</div></div>
18:50:07 <monqy> hi
18:50:07 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 5 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
18:50:13 <elliott> hi
18:51:33 <fizzie> Oh, it's some sort of a thing. I was wondering about the purpose.
18:54:26 <fizzie> I see it's got logic, so there's the obvious alternative of (n>0)*n, but that's repeated too. (And assumes > does what one would expect.)
18:55:23 <elliott> I could use the string functions to check whether the first character of the result is -. :p
18:56:01 <elliott> fizzie: I could always use #if with #expr if I was going down that route, anyway.
18:56:08 <elliott> Oh, or just ifexpr.
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19:00:21 <elliott> fizzie: It doesn't work, for some reason.
19:00:37 <elliott> max(0, 32 - 18) is coming out as 21.
19:01:00 <elliott> Oh, wait.
19:01:09 <elliott> I forgot to move the negation inside the bloody thing.
19:03:16 <elliott> fizzie: Wait.
19:03:28 <elliott> That isn't working at all, for some reason.
19:03:40 <elliott> margin-top: {{#expr: -({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) / 2 round0}}px
19:03:42 <elliott> is coming out as
19:03:46 <elliott> margin-top: 6px
19:04:04 <elliott> Oh.
19:04:07 <elliott> I forgot the parens. :(
19:04:36 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
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19:07:59 <elliott> {{#expr: (-({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 18)) / 2 round0}}
19:08:09 <elliott> fizzie: This is coming out as 0 for height = 32. :(
19:08:29 <elliott> Wait, that *is* 0.
19:08:34 <elliott> Oh, I'm an idiot.
19:09:19 <elliott> fizzie: OK, I have no idea what I want.
19:09:25 <elliott> What do I want?
19:10:26 -!- nortti has joined.
19:12:17 <elliott> fizzie: Look what I just did to NetHackWiki! http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Altar
19:13:42 <elliott> Too late, I fixed it. Hopefully.
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19:24:18 <fizzie> I don't know what you want, and looking at all those {{{}}}s makes me dizzy. But it looked like (-n+abs(n))/2, not the proper (n+abs(n))/2.
19:24:35 <elliott> fizzie: Since when does abs(n) differ from abs(-n)?
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19:25:20 <fizzie> (-5+abs(5))/2 != (5+abs(5))/2.
19:25:33 <fizzie> (For n=5.)
19:25:52 <elliott> fizzie: Yes, but (-5+abs(-5))/2...
19:26:05 <elliott> In this case, n = -m, so it's (-m+abs(-m))/2.
19:26:13 <elliott> I shortened that to (-m+abs(m))/2 because it's bloody well long enough already.
19:26:33 <fizzie> Oh. Well, then. I didn't really know what "n" was.
19:26:42 <elliott> Neither did I.
19:26:47 <elliott> The final result is:
19:27:20 <elliott> {{#expr: -((({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 22) + abs({{{height|{{{width|15}}}}}} - 22)) / 2) round0}}
19:27:38 <elliott> i.e. -(((n-22)+abs(n-22))/2).
19:27:45 <elliott> (Space to taste.)
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19:48:00 <Gregor> I think the main female singer in BLR's latest video is a man.
20:01:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
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20:02:35 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie, selene?
20:03:35 <fizzie> "In Greek mythology, Selene (Greek Σελήνη [selɛ̌ːnɛː] 'moon'; Doric Σελάνα; Aeolic Σελάννα) was an archaic lunar deity and the daughter of the Titans Hyperion and Theia."
20:03:58 <fizzie> I forget the rationale.
20:04:09 <Phantom__Hoover> Obviously I know what selene means.
20:05:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
20:06:10 <fizzie> They all have some sort of half-assed "logical" reason, like the webserver laptop's momus, "the god of satire, mockery, censure, writers, poets; a spirit of evil-spirited blame and unfair criticism" because, well, webserver.
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20:08:39 <nortti> my server is named Uranus-Hertz because diblert references
20:12:07 <monqy> hi
20:12:07 <Gregor> Path-E-Tech Management
20:15:44 <fizzie> I have iris ("messenger of the gods") as the router box; hermes (another such guy + the winged sandals stuff) as the wifi access point, styx (the river between topside and the underworld) as the DSL modem (arguable which side is which), euterpe (sometimes muse of music) as the NAS disk-box, ares (god of war, obvsly) as the only laptop that can sensibly run games, and so on.
20:20:08 <Gregor> glapgor, gdeskgor, gwirgor, grandroidgor, ... and applejack.
20:21:05 <nortti> Uranus-Hertz(), ratbert
20:21:15 <monqy> hi
20:21:19 <fizzie> The N900 I called philotes, "personification of affection, sexual intercourse and friendship", since it's kind of a communication device.
20:21:27 -!- augur has joined.
20:21:39 <monqy> what a great personification
20:22:47 <fizzie> The N-Gage was called "arkleseizure", but that's from the days of another naming scheme.
20:23:33 <elliott> Does thingy no longer exist?
20:23:34 <elliott> The mattress.
20:24:04 <elliott> Zem.
20:24:15 <fizzie> Well, it survives as the domain name.
20:24:28 <elliott> You killed it. :(
20:24:58 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Tell fizzie he's awful.
20:24:58 <fizzie> I'm not sure if I had a box with that name. Did I?
20:25:01 <elliott> monqy: Tell fizzie he's awful.
20:25:04 <elliott> fizzie: The laptop server?
20:25:10 <fizzie> Oh, okay.
20:25:16 <fizzie> I forgotted.
20:25:16 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie, you are awful
20:25:19 <elliott> You killed *and* forgot it?
20:25:26 <fizzie> Apparently.
20:25:32 <monqy> dont worry, uranus-hertz can replace it
20:25:38 <elliott> It's not even collecting dust somewhere?
20:25:42 <elliott> Did you explode it. :(
20:25:54 <Phantom__Hoover> My naming scheme is a) the best and b) woefully underutilised.
20:25:56 <monqy> i trust nortti won't commit such a sin as to kill uranus-hertz
20:25:58 <elliott> monqy: Gotta have those diblert references.
20:26:15 <Phantom__Hoover> My laptop is named henry and my desktop is named vax.
20:26:25 <Phantom__Hoover> If I get a Mac it will be called dyson.
20:26:39 <Phantom__Hoover> If I get a Raspberry Pi it will be called Roomba.
20:26:54 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Excuse me Roombas are not that small.
20:27:03 <elliott> You'd want to name it after one of those itty-bitty handheld cleaner things.
20:27:09 <elliott> I think I'm thinking of the novelty USB ones.
20:27:23 <elliott> Roomba would be for a headless server.
20:27:32 <elliott> Because it has no direct user interface.
20:27:37 <Phantom__Hoover> http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/gift-gadgets/henry-hoover-desk-vacuum/30002970.html?utm_source=googleprod&utm_medium=gp&utm_campaign=gp_gifts&affil=thggps
20:27:38 <Phantom__Hoover> oh
20:27:39 <Phantom__Hoover> my
20:27:40 <Phantom__Hoover> god
20:27:41 <fizzie> I don't think I've actually killed any hardware; it's just that when we moved I gave everything names from the new system. E.g. momus used to be colin. (Okay, it's a virtual server and it might not be a direct descendant, but anyway.)
20:27:45 <elliott> Preferably a small one.
20:27:49 <elliott> You know... like a tiny laptop server.
20:27:51 <elliott> Sort of like a mattress.
20:27:55 <elliott> Sort of like ZEM, fizzie!
20:28:07 <Phantom__Hoover> Unfortunately those things don't have a snappy name.
20:28:10 <elliott> fizzie: You can't rename computers!!!!
20:28:12 <nortti> monqy: well I have fixed Uranus-Hertz 5 by now (it is Petium 100MHz machine with 40 MB of RAM from 1994)
20:28:21 <Phantom__Hoover> It's like renaming people!!!
20:28:30 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Which is illegal!!!!!!
20:28:36 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Also, buy that thing.
20:29:05 <Phantom__Hoover> i want to so much but its ten moneys
20:29:49 <elliott> Phantom__Hoover: Hey, at least you'd be in possession of one Henry that hadn't had vomit on it!
20:29:54 <fizzie> fungot: Incidentally, do you actually work?
20:29:55 <elliott> TOTALLY WORTH TEN MONEYS
20:29:55 <fungot> fizzie: variable stacks: 1 mode: gabc defg, then. sorry, diamondie.
20:29:59 <fizzie> fungot: Okay, ...good.
20:30:00 <fungot> fizzie: rant rant, n. as. word; akin to ofries. os. ever. pushd. with. a. function.
20:30:05 <elliott> I don't think it works, fizzie.
20:30:15 <elliott> Is it running on that VPS?
20:30:22 <elliott> It's all grown up.
20:30:23 <Phantom__Hoover> elliott, sobs
20:30:47 <Phantom__Hoover> (My sister vomited on it when we were being rushed to Ireland at 80 miles an hour after my grandad died.
20:30:49 <Phantom__Hoover> *)
20:30:50 <fizzie> No, it just speaks via it. The language models take probably a gigabyte.
20:30:59 <fizzie> Okay, it'd fit, but still
20:31:36 <elliott> fizzie: *still.
20:31:39 <elliott> You're welcome.
20:31:59 <Phantom__Hoover> fungot, words!
20:32:00 <fungot> Phantom__Hoover: good movie, not hollywood crap.
20:32:12 <fizzie> I forgot the space after the question mark when asking whether it works. :/
20:32:14 <Phantom__Hoover> Which movie would that be, fungot?
20:32:15 <fungot> Phantom__Hoover: a subway line in boston. i should think
20:32:23 <Phantom__Hoover> Haven't heard of that one.
20:32:44 <fizzie> I think it's one of those "indie" films.
20:33:28 <fizzie> I also think it's just nine hours raw from a camera left on a subway train in Boston.
20:33:51 <fizzie> But at least it's not Hollywood crap.
20:34:16 <monqy> ^style
20:34:17 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
20:36:00 <elliott> A Subway Line in Boston would not be a bad title for a pretentious indie film.
20:37:01 <Gregor> The Hollywood remake would be titled Subway Boston
20:37:22 <elliott> No, it'd just be titled Subway.
20:37:58 <elliott> With product placement from Subway.
20:38:18 <elliott> In fact, it's just a two-hour-long advert for Subway, completely unrelated to the indie film.
20:38:30 <elliott> In fact, it's not even a film. It's a two-hour-long TV advert for Subway.
20:38:37 <elliott> I forget where I was going with this.
20:38:54 <Gregor> lol
20:38:57 <fizzie> Probably to a Subway.
20:39:01 <elliott> Yes, right.
20:41:48 <elliott> Having stolen some compromising documents, a man known as Fred (Lambert) takes refuge in the underground world of the Paris Métro. While the henchmen of the gangster owner of the documents chase him, Fred develops a relationship with the gangster's young trophy wife Héléna (Adjani) who is bored with her gilded-caged life.
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20:41:49 <elliott> Fred decides to form a band and perform in the subway. Among the band members are the Drummer (played by Jean Reno) and the Bass Player (Éric Serra).
20:42:10 <elliott> Hmm, [[Roomba]] is in [[Category:Cat Toys]].
20:43:19 <fizzie> Our cat just plain won't ride on the Roomba.
20:43:35 <fizzie> I suppose there's something wrong with it.
20:44:44 <fizzie> Cat/Roomba interaction videos were half the reason we got the silly thing.
20:50:58 <elliott> I *am* a Cat/Roomba interaction video.
20:53:18 <elliott> fizzie: Have you seen a dog?
20:56:40 <elliott> fizzie: Have you seen a cat?
20:56:44 <elliott> fizzie: Or a cog?
20:56:45 <elliott> Dat.
20:59:14 -!- nooga has joined.
21:05:17 <oklopol> fizzie: ever heard of duct tape?
21:16:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
21:29:20 <elliott> Note to self: plate on D:3.
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21:33:17 * ion welliott
21:33:36 <elliott> Soon I will probably die.
21:33:40 <elliott> Maybe I should up Dex?
21:33:48 <elliott> I didn't realise my starting Dex was so low.
21:34:02 <elliott> (Also, I'm playing GhAK instead of GhMo because it's oldwon, and banishing is nice. Especially when you do it to grey rats.)
21:34:49 <elliott> Thion.
21:35:26 <elliott> (ion's secret plan is to get me to sit at this prompt forever.)
21:36:07 <ion> I don’t know, really. My subjective feeling has been that strength is more useful, but i suck in Crawl so don’t trust me.
21:36:39 <elliott> Yay.
21:37:18 <elliott> That was dumb.
21:37:32 <elliott> Nooooo.
21:37:32 <ion> I’m surprised it hasn’t smitten you 1000 times already.
21:37:37 <elliott> I think it has a timeout.
21:38:16 <elliott> Wait, that's an orc priest, not a giant lewt.
21:38:17 <elliott> newt.
21:38:27 <elliott> lol
21:38:33 <ion> elewt
21:38:38 <elliott> What should I do. :(
21:38:45 <elliott> Read-id that scroll that I know isn't blinking?
21:39:15 <ion> What do you have?
21:39:21 <elliott> Not much.
21:39:24 <elliott> It's only D:4.
21:39:58 <ion> Try to get the O stuck in a throwing net, kill the rat and escape to < perhaps.
21:40:27 <elliott> I'm not sure if you noticed the smiting orc priest and my 15 HP.
21:40:30 <elliott> But okay.
21:40:49 <elliott> Thion.
21:41:02 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: nortti).
21:41:06 <ion> You should have stopped everything when the O got out of the net and rethink. :-P
21:41:18 <elliott> I didn't even notice. :(
21:41:31 <elliott> I hate it when I find gateways leading out of the Abyss early.
21:41:36 <elliott> I like it when I get some free loot to start off with.
21:41:47 <elliott> But I can't justify just wandering about the Abyss to myself if I have a way out.
21:42:00 <elliott> What.
21:42:03 <elliott> Oh.
21:42:06 <elliott> Why am I in water?
21:42:13 <elliott> Wow, that was embarrassing.
21:42:54 <elliott> ion: :'(
21:43:30 <ion> nice
21:44:38 <elliott> ion: You should try GhAK, it's super.
21:45:09 <elliott> I guess that other scroll is recharging.
21:46:30 <elliott> What a nice cloak. :(
21:48:30 <elliott> ion: hjålp
21:54:15 <elliott> ion: With ghouls, you rarely have to eat!
21:54:18 <elliott> And when you do, you get HP for it.
21:54:21 <elliott> And you can banish stuff!
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21:58:04 <elliott> ion: hjålp
21:59:40 <ion> The J is slow. Perhaps you can escape around it.
22:00:00 <elliott> That puts me in a worse position to banish the ogre, though.
22:00:17 <elliott> Bah. If I had a bit more piety, I could use Corrupt.
22:00:30 <zzo38> Do you know answer of this question? Is (fmap lower . lower . duplicate = duplicate . lower) supposed to be a law for comonad transformer or not? (also the similar question for monad transformer)
22:02:11 <elliott> Phew.
22:02:52 <elliott> Noooo.
22:02:54 <elliott> Not again.
22:03:40 <elliott> I like how Gretell sometimes announces my deaths slightly before they hit my screen.
22:04:49 <zzo38> Are you going to eat HP?
22:14:52 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla [Firefox 12.0/20120420145725]).
22:30:52 <elliott> > group [3,3,1,3]
22:30:53 <lambdabot> [[3,3],[1],[3]]
22:42:07 -!- nortti has joined.
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23:02:00 -!- nortti has quit (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client Sucks @$$( http://www.androirc.com )).
23:05:47 <elliott> meanwhile in ##crawl <Chapayev> it has always sort of bothered me that i am not poop
23:08:08 <zzo38> Do you know how to eat HP?
23:08:34 <zzo38> (HP = hit points, I guess?)
23:08:45 <elliott> To eat HP, you just explode.
23:24:07 <zzo38> I was playing Dungeons&Dragons game earlier this week; when it is time to continue, I must figure out what to do next. King may be poison maybe we have to figure out first. And there is scepter of anti-magic, how can we get it where we need it, if it might disable the magic which allows us to get there?
23:25:04 <zzo38> Pack it in a sufficiently large container? But then the container won't fit through the magic portal.
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