00:00:00 <qfr> shachaf no, it's not even UTF-16
00:00:09 <qfr> It's not Unicode standard conformant
00:00:23 <qfr> It's loosely based on UTF-16 but also Windows homebrew stuff I was told?
00:00:53 <kmc> it's probably based on UCS-2 actually
00:01:19 <kmc> anyway no surprise that Microsoft embraced and extended unicode
00:01:58 <qfr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCS-2#Use_in_major_operating_systems_and_environments hm
00:02:40 <madbr> what's the point of 16 bit unicode
00:03:43 <kmc> well the BMP includes most of the characters people actually care about
00:04:07 <shachaf> characterspeoplecareabout.bmp
00:04:22 <Gregor> Very much like ASCII includes most of the characters people actually carea bout.
00:05:43 <qfr> Gregor but it doesn't
00:06:04 <qfr> That only works for some 20% of the internet content?
00:07:17 <kmc> if you are ok with only BMP characters, then a 16-bit encoding is simple and supports many operations efficiently
00:07:46 <kmc> so that's "the point of 16-bit Unicode"
00:08:06 <kmc> the other point is that Unicode had only 16 bits of characters until about 1999
00:08:41 <kmc> so it especially makes sense that the Windows NT API uses 16-bit characters
00:10:21 <shachaf> Kind of unfair of Unicode, really.
00:10:59 <shachaf> They should've used Unicode Big Endian from the start, obviously!
00:11:51 <kmc> it's a tradition of #esoteric that if you say something dumb, we will mock you for it for months
00:12:08 <kmc> hey shachaf, are you still angry at that one person who I forgot the nick of who liked PHP
00:12:11 <kmc> because i am
00:12:27 <shachaf> (I don't think I got angry about that at the time.)
00:12:34 <kmc> i don't remember
00:12:50 <shachaf> kmc: Anyway, this is an intellectual sort of channel where we mock ideas, not people!
00:12:56 <shachaf> This makes us better than other channels.
00:13:05 <shachaf> I mean it makes our ideas better than other channels' ideas.
00:13:54 <shachaf> The Win32 interface for getting the command line apparently gives you one long string that you have to parse yourself.
00:14:05 <madbr> 16 bit unicode has byte order mark
00:14:20 <kmc> whereas the POSIX interface gives you several long strings that you have to parse yourself
00:14:23 <Sgeo> Where are these slow-paced FPSes that Warsow contrasts itself with?
00:14:25 <Sgeo> I want to try one
00:14:57 <kmc> play counterstrike, hide in the toilets
00:15:00 <qfr> Sgeo BF/CoD/MW series
00:15:03 <kmc> nice slow pace
00:15:05 <qfr> Presumably
00:15:41 <Sgeo> http://tremulous.net/media/files/microtrem.jpg
00:15:50 <Sgeo> Never tried those
00:15:53 <Sgeo> Any of them free?
00:18:21 <Sgeo> I guess Allegiance might be described as slow
00:18:27 <Sgeo> Hardly popular, though
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01:25:44 <pikhq> Microsoft seems to be working very hard to make Windows 8 suck.
01:26:59 <pikhq> Among other things, Microsoft is no longer providing a free Win32-targetting compiler.
01:27:46 <pikhq> Thereby hurting the single greatest asset they have: Win32 is used by nearly everything.
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01:36:31 <tswett> So, what my code is doing is this.
01:36:46 <tswett> Read a byte from file A. Read a byte from file B. Read a byte from file C. Write a byte to file D. Repeat six and a half billion times.
01:37:36 <tswett> Is that going to be as slow as it sounds like it's going to be, or is the operating system going to make it all okay?
01:39:25 <kmc> if you're actually making a system call for every byte, it will be extremely slow
01:39:42 <kmc> if you're using the standard IO libraries of some language, they will buffer for you
01:40:39 <tswett> I guess that doesn't change the fact that this is only going at, like, a gigabyte an hour or something.
01:40:42 <kmc> you can use strace or similar tool to confirm
01:41:04 <kmc> i'm confused why you're asking if it will be slow, when you already know how fast it is :)
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01:50:01 <tswett> You see, it all started back in the year 428, when King Gunderic of the Vandals and Alans died and was succeeded by his half-brother Genseric.
01:52:07 <itidus21> ah, yes, that makes it quite clear
01:59:02 <shachaf> kmc: I assume tswett wants to know if it's slow relative to what it could be.
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02:03:15 <BlueProtoman> I've got a question for those familiar with Brainfuck. I'm writing a BF interpreter in C++11. How can I easily jump from a '[' to a ']' if the value at the pointer is 0?
02:03:47 <shachaf> Sorry, you need to be using C++12 for that.
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02:09:04 <kmc> loop through the characters in the program
02:09:21 <kmc> keep a counter, increment it when you see '[', decrement when you see ']'
02:09:36 <Gregor> Typically people maintain a table of all the matches, so when you actually run it, you just have to look it up in the table.
02:11:14 <pikhq> Alternately, you can compile those into conditional jumps, and then interpret the resulting bytecode.
02:11:31 <BlueProtoman> kmc: I already know how to handle whether or not we have the right balance of 's.
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02:12:02 <pikhq> BlueProtoman: Ah, right, doing it in C++. Making parsing a bloody *pain*.
02:12:13 <kmc> BlueProtoman: that algorithm isn't just good for detecting whether brackets are balanced
02:12:17 <kmc> you can use it to find the matching bracket
02:12:19 <kmc> just like i said
02:12:33 <kmc> caching those results in a table is a fine optimization, but not necessary
02:13:06 <pikhq> True, it's perfectly workable, if slow, to just do that grepping each time you execute a [ or ].
02:14:58 <kmc> scan the program left to right
02:15:04 <kmc> when you see a '[', push its index onto a stack
02:15:11 <kmc> when you see ']', pop the stack
02:15:40 <kmc> you now have the indices of both brackets; enter those into your table(s)
02:16:18 <kmc> and not a std::stack ?
02:16:29 <kmc> no, for the stack :)
02:16:51 <kmc> vector is a fine choice for the table
02:17:42 <kmc> or you can have each instruction of the BF program be a struct / object in its own right
02:17:52 <kmc> and make the linking of brackets be a field in that object
02:19:15 <BlueProtoman> Actually, each instruction is a lambda function stored in an unordered map.
02:19:40 <BlueProtoman> Calling it is as easy as just instructions[program[i]], handling exceptions as necessary.
02:20:00 <BlueProtoman> I wanna add a lot of derivatives to my interpreter, this'll make it really easy to do
02:22:30 <BlueProtoman> Why couldn't I use a std::vector as the brace stack AND the brace table? It supports push and pop operations.
02:22:51 <kmc> you mean two vectors? or the same one for both, somehow?
02:23:19 <BlueProtoman> Oh, wait, I see. When I finish up, it should be empty.
02:23:30 <BlueProtoman> Never mind. I'd have to add things to the vector along the way.
02:23:38 <kmc> yes, otherwise the braces are unmatched
02:23:49 <madbr> what's wrong with that?
02:24:12 <kmc> depending on your reading of the brainfuck rules, it is allowed
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02:25:30 <kmc> you could say that ] is a valid brainfuck program, because it's a conditional jump (to nowhere) which is not taken
02:25:47 <kmc> similarly +[
02:26:02 <kmc> i don't know if there is an authoritative source on this
02:28:59 <kmc> BlueProtoman: sure, you can use a std::vector as a stack, it will work fine
02:29:37 <BlueProtoman> kmc: I know *that*. I don't think we're all on the same page here, but thanks.
02:30:11 <kmc> there are a few reasons to use the container which supports only the operations you need
02:31:09 <kmc> i guess i won't list them
02:42:53 <pikhq> http://sprunge.us/UfLP If anyone wants to tell me how I'm being stupid, please do so.
02:44:26 <madbr> reming me what static functions do in plain C
02:44:51 <pikhq> Aren't exported outside of the compilation unit.
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02:51:11 <pikhq> Oh, and if you don't want to be psychic, I'm *trying* to create a Huffman table.
02:51:36 <pikhq> And it ends up creating one, except it omits entirely a lot of characters.
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05:21:15 <pikhq> Correct answer is "use a less obtuse algorithm".
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08:54:07 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
08:54:07 <elliott> 19:11 Deewiant has left IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
08:54:07 <elliott> 19:12 <Guest28135> Try to check the site of cottages in BALI: www.bebaucottage.comli.com
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08:55:57 <elliott> 18:41:24: <Gregor> That being said, http://codu.org/hats/Cowpoke-med.jpg.
08:56:11 <elliott> Gregor: you look so serious and world-weary
08:56:34 <elliott> please sing depressing songs about failure while wearing that hat
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08:56:58 <elliott> 19:50:39: <fizzie> I, uh... The... I mean, this... there's this Eurovision contest thing, and this one entry is... it's about "social networks".
08:57:03 <elliott> fizzie: NO did I miss Eurovision???
08:57:46 <Sgeo> Is Brogue good?
08:57:58 <elliott> Also: re: on the subject of: songs about social networks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbYqDFvM0wE
08:58:02 <Sgeo> I know it's been talked about in here, and I just saw it mentioned in a Reddit thread
08:58:44 <elliott> I wonder if ais523 is still addicted to it.
08:58:54 <Sgeo> There's no Brogue servers?
08:59:19 <elliott> Didn't you ask that days ago?
08:59:27 <elliott> It would look pretty ugly in a terminal, anyway.
08:59:35 <elliott> It saves a recording file.
09:00:15 <elliott> The game spoils everything you need to know from inside.
09:00:16 <Sgeo> I like spoilers
09:00:18 <elliott> The game spoils everything you need to know from inside.
09:00:33 <elliott> e.g. look at an enemy and you get information on how, and how fast, it can kill you.
09:00:54 <elliott> No spoilers required is a design goal, I think.
09:02:28 <Sgeo> Hey, it has autoexplore
09:02:30 <elliott> 19:51:58: <oerjan> i don't watch tv, but i read somewhere that the uk's singer is supposedly engelbert humperdinck
09:02:37 <elliott> It's spelled "Benedict Cumberbatch".
09:02:44 <elliott> Sgeo: The autoexplore is not really useful.
09:02:50 <elliott> (It even has an auto-play, technically.)
09:03:06 <elliott> The levels are small and filled with stuff, so mostly shift+direction is what's useful.
09:03:08 <Sgeo> Blah I need to resize the window
09:03:19 <fizzie> elliott: Just the first semifinal of it.
09:03:41 <elliott> 19:53:19: <oklofok> euro neuro
09:03:56 <elliott> fizzie: Is it onlinebroadcasterated?
09:04:12 <Sgeo> How do I resize the window?
09:04:30 <fizzie> Our national BBC-alike (YLE) onlinecasts it, but possibly only within Finland. But I suppose quite a few other TV companies do too?
09:04:31 <elliott> It depends on the OS, technically.
09:05:33 <elliott> Oh, http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01j741p/Eurovision_Song_Contest_2012_SemiFinal_One.
09:05:49 <fizzie> Yes, it's in your "iPlayer" too.
09:05:57 <fizzie> I was just checking for that.
09:06:07 <fizzie> Ours is yle.fi/areena but it speaks Finnish only, I think.
09:06:19 <elliott> 'Eurovision Song Contest: 2012: Semi-Final One' may be unsuitable for young audiences.
09:06:19 <elliott> Yes, I am aged 16 or older
09:06:26 <elliott> Sgeo: K Desktop Environment
09:06:44 <Sgeo> Yes, but what is its relevence to everything else>?
09:06:47 <elliott> fizzie: So does Finland not get it live?
09:07:08 <elliott> fizzie: (Also I think Finnish narration is probably funnier.)
09:07:34 <fizzie> It is sent live, too; it's some other part of YLE Areena where live broadcasts go, but anyway.
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09:07:48 <fizzie> The recording -- http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1525991 -- is "watchable only in Finland", according to the description.
09:08:01 <elliott> "and the Hump himself will be here".
09:08:53 <fizzie> Correspondingly, yours doesn't work for me. "Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only."
09:09:06 <elliott> I always forget that the problem with Eurovision is that you have to watch two hours of it.
09:09:30 <fizzie> It's more like six hours for both semifinals and the final.
09:09:49 <elliott> fizzie: Yes, but those are in separate bits.
09:10:12 <Sgeo> "It will reveal its secrets to you if you wear it for 1000 turns"
09:10:42 <elliott> Sgeo: i.e. it identifies itself.
09:11:04 <elliott> Sgeo: ("Secrets" here means "the enchantment".)
09:11:10 <elliott> (Note that they can be negative.)
09:11:16 <elliott> I guess that message could be a little clearer.
09:11:36 <Sgeo> Huh, so paralysis actually has a timer thing go across the screen
09:11:50 <elliott> Yeah, pretty much any effect has a meter bar.
09:12:10 <elliott> BTW, the easiest way to look at dungeon features/monsters is to hover over them. And also the click-to-autotravel thing is really useful.
09:12:42 <elliott> 20:28:27: <fizzie> Oh hay, Finland had the longest string of "been participating but never won" (1961-2003), but we screwed that up with our 2004 win; now it's Portugal (1964-present).
09:13:40 <elliott> AND LET THE EUROVISION SONG CONTEST BEGIIIIN and then one of them goes on a bit too long "IIIIN".
09:13:49 <Sgeo> Is Easy Mode a bad idea?
09:14:28 <elliott> Sgeo: I haven't played it. But I expect you'll get bored.
09:14:37 <elliott> The first floors aren't really hard anyway.
09:18:29 <elliott> 21:18:25: <kmc> all the good musicians are from the UK
09:19:43 <elliott> EURO NEURO MONETARY BREAK DANCE
09:20:50 <elliott> "That was Montenegro, they've never reached the final in three attempts here on Eurovision."
09:21:10 <elliott> Oh wait, I think the presenter was being sarc—
09:21:44 <fizzie> I only heard a few seconds of euro neuro, but the way he says the "euro neuro" bit sounds somehow Finnish.
09:22:09 <elliott> fizzie: You need to hear the whole thing.
09:22:12 <elliott> It's a religious experience.
09:22:40 <elliott> Wow Iceland this isn't very good.
09:22:43 <Sgeo> Why is QuakeNet so popular?
09:23:06 <fizzie> Iceland qualified for the finals.
09:24:12 <fizzie> Greece had a song that was exactly like the songs they always have.
09:25:43 <elliott> It's really annoying how the vocals are always mixed to be about 2x louder than the music in Eurovision. It makes everything sound even worse.
09:25:49 <elliott> I guess that might be an upside.
09:26:19 <elliott> Or did their 100% RATE get RUINED?
09:28:49 <fizzie> The Finnish subtitles for the song lyrics are occasionally hilarious, though I don't recall really spectacular examples offhand.
09:29:53 <elliott> Do we get subtitles? I forget.
09:31:22 <fizzie> According to Finnish announcers, only Finland and Estonia provide subtitles for the songs.
09:31:51 <fizzie> They're all singing your language anyway. Well, not quite all. But most.
09:34:14 <elliott> Why would she want their aphrodisiac if she's already like this?
09:34:16 <elliott> Come on, this is so unrealistic.
09:35:48 <fizzie> Oh, the Beautiful Song.
09:36:06 <fizzie> Sadly, they didn't qualify.
09:36:12 <Sgeo> *sigh* what game am I downloading now
09:36:19 <elliott> 23:58:12: <shachaf> kmc: UPDATE: Windows people still use "Unicode" to mean "UTF-16".
09:36:23 <elliott> shachaf: Is that Big or Little Endian?
09:36:29 <elliott> fizzie: Oh, it's that thing?
09:36:34 <elliott> fizzie: This will be good.
09:36:47 <elliott> Sgeo: Hope you enjoyed your 3 minutes of Brogue.
09:37:06 <shachaf> elliott: I think that joke was already made.
09:37:19 <Sgeo> Playing a roguelike with a GUI is weird
09:37:23 <elliott> shachaf: Well, those were the last lines in the log.
09:37:37 <elliott> Sgeo: It's not really a "GUI".
09:37:40 <shachaf> Sgeo: MORE LIKE A ROGUEUNLIKE, AM I RIGHT?
09:37:54 <fizzie> More like a ROGUILIKE.
09:38:09 <Sgeo> DF needs an interface like that though
09:38:11 <elliott> 00:12:08: <kmc> hey shachaf, are you still angry at that one person who I forgot the nick of who liked PHP
09:38:19 <elliott> kmc: I'm only angry because he hecked my aim.
09:39:43 <elliott> 02:16:24: <BlueProtoman> For the table?
09:39:44 <elliott> 02:16:29: <kmc> no, for the stack :)
09:39:46 <elliott> 02:16:51: <kmc> vector is a fine choice for the table
09:40:28 <shachaf> Quick, someone draw a caricature of elliott as a donkey between two haystacks!
09:40:31 <elliott> 02:25:30: <kmc> you could say that ] is a valid brainfuck program, because it's a conditional jump (to nowhere) which is not taken
09:40:31 <elliott> 02:25:47: <kmc> similarly +[
09:40:31 <elliott> 02:26:02: <kmc> i don't know if there is an authoritative source on this
09:40:36 <elliott> kmc: strong consensus is that it is not valid
09:40:42 <elliott> I don't know what the original implementation does
09:41:29 <elliott> [ Starts loop, flag under pointer
09:41:34 <elliott> from the original command reference
09:41:52 <shachaf> What if there's a needle in their haystack?
09:42:35 <shachaf> Would they use a Brayer-Moore algorithm?
09:42:47 <shachaf> I wish I was a donkey. :-(
09:43:17 <elliott> Did you know that the most fun thing is applying a huge patch by hand?
09:43:59 <shachaf> elliott: I used an exciting WINDOWS DEBUGGER today!
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09:53:06 <fizzie> Are we to assume that now Windows no longer has bugs?
09:56:18 <shachaf> Don't worry, you can still make fun of PHP.
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10:01:14 <elliott> Oops, I forgot to unpause Eurovision.
10:02:03 <elliott> "Beautiful song that everybody knows, that everybody loves"
10:03:37 <elliott> fizzie: Perhaps they're talking about some other hypothetical song?
10:03:41 <Sgeo> I'm starting to have the impression that all these FPSes are the exact same damn game
10:04:23 <elliott> fizzie: Is Albania's good?
10:04:34 <elliott> "If you've got any pets, you might want to put them in another room."
10:05:23 <elliott> Her hair is... interesting.
10:07:22 <elliott> Well, this is the best one so far on the sole basis of not sounding predictable.
10:08:26 <elliott> fizzie: Why can't UK viewers vote???
10:08:35 <Sgeo> I should just play whatever game all these games are based on
10:08:43 <Sgeo> Quake 3 Arena I think? Is that free/
10:08:44 <elliott> "UK VIEWERS DO NOT VOTE IN THIS SEMI FINAL: Your vote won't count and you may be charged."
10:10:12 <elliott> "The waterline could be anything you want it to be."
10:10:23 <elliott> "I actually... grab... ass."
10:10:55 <elliott> fizzie: "I can't do it. I can't do it at all." "Why are you here then?" "...it is mystery!" --Euro Neuro guy.
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10:12:24 * Sgeo wonders if anyone plays openArena
10:13:13 <Sgeo> 27 players on right now
10:13:55 <shachaf> elliott: HINT: Every disc covers at least one rational point, so you can't have more discs on a plane than rationals.
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10:15:04 <elliott> shachaf: oklopol already spoiled the answer, anyway.
10:23:52 <elliott> why isn't everyone eurovision
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10:24:51 <shachaf> Isn't that the Molvania thing?
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11:52:31 <elliott> welcome back Phantom_Hoover we missed you
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11:55:59 <elliott> welcome back Phantom_Hoover we missed you
11:59:17 <Sgeo> How many times has Phantom_Hoover died?
11:59:37 <Sgeo> Hmm, he should really be Phantom^n_Hoover
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12:35:46 <elliott> shachaf: Your country's music is weird.
12:36:58 <Gregor> elliott: Your country's music is weird.
12:48:03 * Sgeo has decided to refer to everyone in the third person
12:48:32 * Sgeo has no real reason for doing so other than the awkwardness of above lines where he referred to Phantom_Hoover in the third person.
12:51:31 <Phantom_Hoover> the third person is the normal way to refer to other people if you're not directly addressing them
12:52:09 * Sgeo thinks it was awkward that he was not directly addressing Phantom_Hoover though, although Phantom_Hoover was right there.
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13:09:47 <HackEgo> ogrom: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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13:11:58 <elliott> Gregor: Yooooooo fix this bug for me
13:19:45 <Sgeo> The one where people think this is an esoterica channel?
13:21:07 <Sgeo> Mouse battery dead
13:23:29 <Sgeo> Found some batteries
13:23:44 <elliott> Sgeo: You should fix the bug for me.
13:24:24 <elliott> Spellcast aiming in tiles is a bit weird.
13:24:48 <Sgeo> Well, I don't know what game this is, and I don't know what "weird" is
13:24:54 <elliott> Gregor: See, it's practically garbage collection code.
13:25:13 <elliott> And "weird" is "it omits most of two rows of the target except one square is included in the second-last row".
13:27:02 <elliott> Hmm, I guess I'll check beam.cc again...
13:27:28 <elliott> And dungeon.cc (maybe), glwrapper.cc (doubtful), item_use.cc, spl-cast.cc, spl-util.cc.
13:27:48 <elliott> And viewgom.cc, viewmap.cc.
13:30:27 <elliott> Note to self: Perhaps suggest showing success percentage rather than failure percentage.
13:30:38 <elliott> Also check out why it says 0 for <= 2.
13:30:43 <elliott> (in spl-cast.cc, failure_rate_to_string)
13:31:31 <elliott> Other things to check: the Fire Storm-specific code.
13:44:44 <elliott> Checked spl-cast.cc, on to spl-util.cc.
13:45:57 <elliott> if (flags & SPFLAG_TARGETING_MASK)
13:47:53 <elliott> // FUNCTION APPLICATORS: Idea from Juho Snellman <firstname.lastname@example.org>
13:47:53 <elliott> // on the Roguelike News pages, Development section.
13:47:53 <elliott> // <URL:http://www.skoardy.demon.co.uk/rlnews/>
13:47:54 <elliott> Ah, yes, the arcane magicks of functions that TAKE OTHER FUNCTIONS AS PARAMETERS AND APPLY THEM.
13:48:07 <elliott> // Applies the effect to all nine squares around/including the target.
13:48:07 <elliott> // Returns summation of return values from passed in function.
13:48:07 <elliott> // Applies the effect to the eight squares beside the target.
13:48:08 <elliott> // Returns summation of return values from passed in function.
13:48:18 <elliott> TODO: Look into adjacent_iterator.
13:48:41 <elliott> (Except this doesn't explain why it only happens in tiles, gah! Grep for uses of apply_area_square, apply_area_around_square.)
13:48:52 <elliott> (Also apply_area_within_radius.)
13:48:59 <elliott> (But that uses radius_iterator, so...)
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14:05:50 <elliott> TODO: Come back to tilereg-spl.cc.
14:10:55 <elliott> TODO: Come back to tilereg.cc.
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14:18:18 <elliott> Probably not viewmap.cc, by the looks of it.
14:18:35 <elliott> TODO: Check dungeon.cc, glwrapper.cc, item_use.cc; do those greps, and check back on the things.
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14:21:12 <Sgeo> Why do I keep trying different FPSes?
14:21:17 <Sgeo> They're all the same
14:22:44 <Sgeo> It seems like they're mostly just different themes
14:22:48 <Sgeo> A few exceptions
14:22:54 <Phantom_Hoover> If you're going to claim TF2, CoD-alikes and HL2 are all the same...
14:23:00 <elliott> Sgeo: just like 3D virtual world games, then?
14:23:23 <cheater> Sgeo: hitman 5 looks real good.
14:23:40 <cheater> i've never thought i'd want to play a hitman game, but this one is compelling.
14:23:56 <Sgeo> I don't know what CoD is like
14:24:06 <Sgeo> But I think these are all Quake  like
14:24:46 <cheater> Sgeo, but quake 1 had a totally different storyline to quake 3!
14:24:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Quake is about fast movement, aiming to account for that and dodging.
14:25:31 <Sgeo> I mean, Xonotic, World of Padman, Warsow, Urban Terror (probably),
14:25:50 <Sgeo> Tremulous at least has base building and an alien team
14:26:30 <Phantom_Hoover> If you're trying open-source FPSes, I seem to recall that like all of them are built on the Quake engine.
14:26:33 <cheater> oh now they have also made an unreal tournament clone on the crysis engine called Nexuiz or something
14:27:02 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, that's what I meant
14:27:57 * Sgeo wonders if America's Army is fun
14:28:06 <elliott> please don't play us army propaganda
14:28:25 <Phantom_Hoover> *Hopefully* that Source port is real and will arrive fairly soon.
14:29:40 <elliott> 15:28 Reply(367): #esoteric *!*@g230223105.adsl.alicedsl.de ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 1337155762
14:30:09 <cheater> i assumed ais just unbanned me, since i hadn't rebooted my modem
14:30:23 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, hey, America's Army has those crazy level designs.
14:31:09 <Sgeo> So, what games have similar play to AA/
14:31:20 <Phantom_Hoover> cheater, I don't think it was intended to be temporary.
14:32:15 <cheater> *shrug* nothing to lose life over
14:32:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, well assuming it's an ultra-realistic military sim, ARMA 2?
14:32:19 <Sgeo> What's the difference between Quake III Arena and Unreal Tournament?
14:32:43 <cheater> some new team modes in UT that didn't pick up that much
14:34:10 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, free version has no support for mods o.O
14:34:45 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: FSVO ultra-realistic.
14:35:12 <Sgeo> I think I'm mostly interested in strategic stuff
14:35:12 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, um the sunken city of R'lyeh is one of the future battlegrounds for democracy.
14:35:15 <Sgeo> Or is it tactical?
14:36:20 <Sgeo> I just wish that the first place I had heard of Arma 2 from wasn't some religious nut's YouTube channel
14:36:40 <Sgeo> Although that video actually had nothing to do with religion, except for the stuff in the description
14:37:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Well um I didn't play it for long but seeing as it takes about 3 shots to put you down and combat is pretty long ranged, I'm guessing it's tactical.
14:43:03 <Sgeo> <3 Pentagonal Dreams
14:43:45 <elliott> Excuse me it must only be called The Enigma Menu Song (RIP; Will Be Missed).
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14:44:20 <elliott> The welcomes, they never stop.
14:44:22 <HackEgo> ogrom: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
14:44:49 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: You know, the thing that used to be the Enigma menu music.
14:44:54 <elliott> http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=73118 This thing.
14:46:08 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1ycI_zz1jo&t=9m47s
14:46:27 <elliott> Sgeo: um no that is a false god.
14:46:31 <elliott> Only Enigma is allowed to use that music.
14:50:16 <Sgeo> elliott, it's gone from all versions of Enigma, not just Debian's or something?
14:50:20 <cheater> Sgeo, http://youtu.be/bQ4lLu4huzQ
14:51:12 <elliott> Sgeo: But it was removed from Debian's first, I think.
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15:01:59 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: They didn't have a license for it.
15:02:06 <elliott> Or rather, it was non-free.
15:02:09 <elliott> It was just "freely redistributable" or something, I think.
15:19:08 <coppro> why does haskell have no function to count elements of a list matching a predicate?
15:19:57 <elliott> coppro: Because it's a trivial composition of existing functions:
15:20:28 * elliott awaits the kmc "trivial" police.
15:21:15 <lambdabot> Prelude any :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool
15:21:15 <lambdabot> Data.List any :: (a -> Bool) -> [a] -> Bool
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15:22:07 <coppro> elliott: but length . filter is inefficient
15:22:23 <elliott> coppro: If you think it makes two passes over the list, it doesn't (and you need to refine your understanding of non-strict evaluation).
15:22:43 <elliott> From an operational point of view, length forces each cell of the list as it goes along it ,causing the computation in filter, and so on.
15:23:03 <coppro> forgot about lazy eval again
15:23:06 <elliott> (That also means that once it passes a cell, it can be garbage-collected, but you'd need an awfully large list of booleans for that to matter.)
15:23:12 <coppro> I keep doing that after not programming Haskell for >1 week
15:23:17 <elliott> coppro: It does wonders for efficient composition :)
15:23:36 <coppro> I've written non-trivial stuff before where efficiency mattered :)
15:23:47 <coppro> and where infinite lists were involved
15:23:53 <coppro> so getting the order of evaluation right was important
15:24:30 <elliott> mon-util.h:47: error: ‘int8_t’ does not name a type
15:28:07 <elliott> Sgeo: Did you know that Crawl considers squares a type of circle?
15:28:23 <elliott> In fact, the circle_def class will assume you mean a square circle unless you specify otherwise.
15:30:22 <Taneb> As opposed to a circular circle
15:30:28 <Taneb> elliott, can you hear thunder?
15:32:21 <fizzie> Can't you hear, can't you hear the thunder? / You better run, you better take cover.
15:32:55 <elliott> Ah, the famous Scottish anthem.
15:34:03 <fizzie> I though it was from that song about Austria.
15:35:29 <elliott> fizzie: You mean Switzerland.
15:39:16 <elliott> (To spoil the joke: Wikipedia once referred to Men at Work as a "Scottish-Australian" band and this was relevant somehow when I was talking to Phantom_Hoover.)
15:40:09 <Taneb> The two cities the song names are brussels and bombay. Hence it must be about the Dutch Empire in Indea
15:54:16 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, this is correct.
15:55:09 <Sgeo> I haven't been to many of those places
15:55:40 <Sgeo> And these days no one is anywhere but the entry area
15:57:40 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, the I have to take a piss scene and what's going to happen after that?
15:58:20 <Sgeo> That maze is not put together in a physically possible way.
15:58:36 <Sgeo> You can end up seeing yourself
15:59:52 <Sgeo> Some of them area
16:00:02 <Sgeo> Bathroom with its maze
16:00:25 <Sgeo> What do you mean by norm?
16:01:58 <Sgeo> "It's just a cube"
16:02:02 <Sgeo> Come on you can't find the maze?
16:02:08 <Sgeo> Hmm, Worlds, Inc seems to be fond of weird mazes
16:02:16 <Sgeo> There's an invisible maze in that room
16:02:59 <Sgeo> The beach is not a place that Worlds, Inc built, but it's the most common hangout now
16:03:15 <Sgeo> Well, both it and the normal starting area have overlapping chat
16:03:55 <Sgeo> As in, two worlds, but someone who is in one is visible in another as though they're there.... well, two worlds sharing one ... chatters and their locations thing
16:05:11 <Sgeo> I didn't even know cel-shading was possible in Worlds
16:05:50 <Sgeo> Oh, the weird colored purple and yellow walls are the colors of the walls of the default room when one makes a new room
16:06:56 <Sgeo> "I did not type that"
16:07:18 <Sgeo> Individual's Worlds can force people to say things I think
16:08:12 <Sgeo> This place looks user-created
16:08:24 <Sgeo> I'd like to know who made it, by that beach there's a list of user-made worlds
16:08:34 <Sgeo> If this place is active, it's likely listed there
16:08:48 <Sgeo> Or the beach's list might not have been updated
16:09:40 <Sgeo> "Walk into myself"
16:09:54 <Sgeo> An easy effect, two portals, one as a mirror one as not
16:10:36 <Sgeo> HOW ARE THESE PLACES SO POPULATED?
16:10:57 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
16:10:57 <Sgeo> The walking in space thing is used on the Meteor for some reason
16:11:06 <Sgeo> Walking between the Meteor and the Avatar Gallery
16:11:10 -!- AnotherTest has left.
16:11:50 <Sgeo> The place with the elevator looks like a mockery of a Worlds Inc world
16:13:02 <Sgeo> Spy worlds tend to be like that, but I don't think this is a spy world
16:13:08 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, sorry for the chatter
16:13:53 <elliott> It is unforgivable. You will be exterminated.
16:14:30 * Sgeo hmms at the forced av changes
16:14:37 <Sgeo> That is not something I was aware was possible.
16:14:41 <Sgeo> Voluntary av changes, yes
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16:17:37 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, I can always give you a tour of Worlds, although I do not know many of those places
16:18:32 <Sgeo> The scariest thing I'm likely to do to you is enter a mirror
16:19:38 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, I might need to give you the download link, the website is broken :(
16:22:12 <Sgeo> Arma 2 wanted me to press the enter key on my numpad
16:22:18 <Sgeo> I don't have an enter key on my numpad
16:23:50 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, there's a place called the Gauntlet
16:24:07 <Sgeo> You go into one room, you see a window into a world. The next room, new window, different world
16:24:20 <Sgeo> And you see windows into all the builtin worlds
16:24:37 <Sgeo> (It was made for technical reasons but isn't necessary anymore. Still cool though)
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16:30:54 <Sgeo> o.O just saw a video that was an official place but I've never seen
16:30:59 <Sgeo> I've never been in the Sports pod
16:32:14 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBNDa4y3pSo looks like more of a tour of the official worlds
16:32:43 <itidus21> i like it.. none of this boring second life crap
16:33:58 <itidus21> Hookstone also trapped. His soul will never be free.
16:34:03 <Sgeo> With Second Life, multiple people can build in the same place
16:34:13 <Phantom_Hoover> OK so guessing the creepiness was just kind of a thing in the community.
16:34:22 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, I... guess?
16:34:40 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, look at video I linked starting at 39 minutes
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16:35:55 <itidus21> The gdsgewyedws have been hoiedwied
16:35:58 <Sgeo> Why is it so easy to miss the weird parts of the maze
16:36:25 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:36:38 <Sgeo> Oh, it shows more of the maze
16:36:58 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb.
16:37:15 <itidus21> Phantom_Hoover: well.. i do like weird though
16:37:36 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, there are a lot of portals in it, basically.
16:37:43 <Sgeo> Worlds uses portals a lot
16:38:30 <itidus21> i like qwop, i liked the stupid conspiracy theories until i started to realize people were actually haunted by such ideas day to day
16:39:45 <itidus21> well there is fun happy weird and theres austrian basement weird
16:40:26 <Sgeo> Oh, all those "Need to download a world" dialogs in that video are obsolete
16:40:34 <Sgeo> And that was the problem the Gauntlet was intended to solve
16:40:41 <Sgeo> One place where you deal with all of that garbage
16:44:31 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, there's a Sadness pod
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16:46:01 <Sgeo> Yes. Worlds Center has these pod offshoots
16:46:06 <Sgeo> Little cute worlds
16:46:29 <Sgeo> Well, not "cute"
16:46:36 <Sgeo> But it's a space station
16:46:47 <Sgeo> You walk around it, then go to this arm that's part of the space station
16:46:53 <Sgeo> Then there's a "Skydoor" to a world
16:47:00 <Sgeo> So, there's a Sadness world
16:47:11 <Sgeo> (Right near the Glee world)
16:47:18 <Sgeo> And that's Glee as in the emotion
16:47:46 <elliott> Who needs Glee when you have Hanson?
16:48:27 <Sgeo> elliott, is that a random remark, or did you see Hanson in one of the videos?
16:48:36 <Sgeo> Because there's a bunch of Hanson stuff for some reason.
16:48:39 <elliott> 16:54 <Phantom_Hoover> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqel0k0NzNU
16:48:56 <elliott> You're missing out if you stopped watching it.
16:50:21 <Sgeo> Going to see if I can find the hand garden
16:51:37 <Sgeo> I felt nothing weird about it
16:52:59 <itidus21> i know several videos have been posted so just to clarify, i felt that the vine sauce worlds exploration video was weird
16:53:20 <itidus21> and its interesting that you don't
16:53:35 <Sgeo> There's a "Halloween Ground Zero"
16:53:38 <Sgeo> And a "Worlds Hell"
16:55:01 <elliott> Sgeo: Yeah, a creepy-looking dog thing that tells you they want to show you were they were born and then takes you to a glaringly-bright cartoon world with a bunch of animal sprites and then to a weird messed-up world and makes you say things about Jesus dying on the cross or whatever and then turns you into a skeleton and then turns you into a weird mechanical-looking thing when you walk out isn't weird at all.
16:55:10 <elliott> Happened to me the other day.
16:55:31 <Sgeo> Creepy looking dog is one of the built-in avs
16:55:44 <Sgeo> User-made worlds can force people to say things
16:55:57 <Sgeo> And ... I'm not sure about the forcibly changing someone's av. That's bizarre.
16:56:01 <Sgeo> I should try it
16:56:22 <elliott> Sgeo: To clarify: things can be weird without being seemingly-impossible.
16:56:33 <elliott> Someone making that world and then doing that to random people is weird.
16:58:20 <Sgeo> ....Sista_ClickMe
16:58:26 <Phantom_Hoover> "makes you say things about Jesus dying on the cross or whatever" <- um the phrase is "He died for our sins... I see no nails..."
16:58:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: I didn't *read* it! And it was multiple lines; you can see them in the video.
16:58:45 <Sgeo> There's a Posable (avatar without an attached real person or bot)
16:58:55 <Sgeo> Called Sista_Clickme
16:59:01 <Sgeo> Clickme is totlally the best name ever
16:59:03 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Clickme.
16:59:11 <itidus21> is the text "He died for our sins... I see no nails..." itself weird?
16:59:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Well yes because of the religious undertones that don't actually make sense.
16:59:31 <Clickme> Sista_ClickMe> Come along Cap, we may be nuns but we still know sexy thighs when we see them ;)
16:59:50 <Clickme> That's what was said when I clicked Sista_ClickMe
17:00:29 <itidus21> Phantom_Hoover: fwiw i'm not one of them in the sense i haven't used worlds
17:00:42 <itidus21> but i have second-lifed in the past for a short while
17:01:21 <Clickme> a bunch of newbie avatars in a cage
17:01:27 <Clickme> Clicking them causes them to ask things like ASL
17:02:02 <Clickme> I'm going to restart Worlds then go back there
17:02:05 <Clickme> So I can actually copy/paste
17:04:16 <Clickme> As in, someone registerd with that named
17:07:22 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:07:57 <Clickme> Someone mentioned Onion Vortex
17:09:26 <Clickme> The Onion Vortex just put words in my mouth
17:09:38 <Clickme> "Sgeo> you know my nanme? the word of goD..click the orange disc"
17:10:50 <Clickme> Yep, this is totally the place
17:12:55 <Clickme> The list of user-made worlds even calls it ! Weird !
17:13:02 <Clickme> As did the person who pointed it out to mne
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17:13:41 <Clickme> Phantom_Hoover, I'll bring you here
17:13:49 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o ais523.
17:13:52 -!- ais523 has kicked cheater User terminated!.
17:13:59 -!- ais523 has set channel mode: -o ais523.
17:14:17 <ais523> looking at cheater's messages, he doesn't seem to have improved his behaviour at all
17:14:26 <ais523> I told chanserv to kickban him if he turns up again
17:14:58 <elliott> Clickme: Wait, Phantom_Hoover is playing?
17:15:17 <Clickme> But I plan on dragging him here
17:16:59 <Clickme> Asked someone who would be likely to know
17:17:08 <Clickme> "i used virtual box on linux"
17:17:25 <elliott> That's so amazingly not worth it.
17:17:39 <elliott> ais523: Worlds, one of those awful 90s 3D virtual reality games
17:18:22 <Gregor> Which is apparently still around a dozen years later?
17:18:37 <elliott> Gregor: Can you imagine being an employee?
17:18:50 <elliott> Maybe they come to the office every day and pretend it's still the dot-com era.
17:19:11 <elliott> Gregor: Maybe they sit at their desks all day and hold meetings in a virtual office.
17:19:17 <Clickme> you know my name? the word of goD..click the orange disc
17:19:25 <Clickme> elliott, they're a patent troll
17:19:42 <elliott> Clickme: Well, that's just patent trolling!
17:20:15 -!- Clickme has changed nick to Sgeo.
17:20:20 <Sgeo> ..in the name of the father
17:20:49 <Sgeo> ..and the holy spirit..amen....
17:21:00 <Sgeo> ..look at him there..do walk closer and see what you have done..
17:21:33 <Sgeo> ..how the blood from his wounds flow so easily in your mind when you, yes you drive that evil spirit through his side..
17:21:37 <coppro> you are in an irc channel
17:21:44 <Sgeo> ..he died for your Sin.....I see no nails..
17:21:47 <coppro> available exist are north, south, and dennis
17:22:10 <coppro> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
17:22:46 <Sgeo> I seem to be unable to leave this room
17:23:01 <Sgeo> There's one window with INRA out the side on the cross
17:23:34 <Sgeo> Ok, I needed to walk along the wall
17:24:22 <fizzie> When uppercased, Sin is that dude in Final Fantasy X.
17:24:31 <Sgeo> Ok, this place weirds me out
17:25:25 <Sgeo> I seem to be trapped. I'm going to go to hell
17:26:42 <elliott> Sgeo: FINALLY you acknowledge something is weird about it :P
17:27:33 <Sgeo> Host-Jaguar> Ahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! I guess that's what you get for having a/s/l down as a hate in your info!
17:27:44 <Sgeo> (He's caged in with the ASL asking newbies)
17:29:36 <Sgeo> I've been here before
17:29:43 <Sgeo> There's a naked male av with a sign as a censor
17:33:10 <Sgeo> Hanson world has a Science Room
17:33:47 <Sgeo> Because it's a school
17:34:24 <Sgeo> This totally makes sense to someone somewhere
17:34:44 <fizzie> I understand less than half of what's going on here.
17:34:55 <elliott> that's a lot more than I do
17:35:24 <fizzie> I don't think "less than half" really establishes a lower bound.
17:35:43 <elliott> i didn't understand your line, either :(
17:36:17 <Sgeo> fizzie, http://worlds.com
17:36:19 <Sgeo> If you have Windows
17:36:30 <Sgeo> Although the download might not work
17:36:34 <fizzie> Sgeo: I don't think I dare.
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17:37:52 <Sgeo> Lemme find the download link that the tech support person emailed me
17:38:24 <Sgeo> http://worlds3.worlds.com/WorldsPlayerWin7.exe
17:38:50 <Sgeo> There's a WWF world
17:39:27 <fizzie> I always forget, is that a wrestling thing or a protect-nature thing?
17:40:03 <elliott> both, except the former is WWE now
17:40:08 <elliott> because of the latter, I think
17:40:20 <elliott> thus ends the sum total of my knowledge of WWF/WWE
17:42:05 <fizzie> "I am Prof.Elvis H. AJAH., the Director in charge of Treasury Department, -- You are to reply through this my official alternative email address(email@example.com) for security reasons." Sounds legit!
17:42:22 <fizzie> I'm sure Prof. Elvis has my security in mind.
17:50:33 <Gregor> I just got an email asking if I wanted a job in the mining industry.
17:54:08 <Sgeo> Worlds apparently saw a surge of people last night
17:54:10 <Sgeo> Due to that video
17:54:33 <itidus21> i just watched the 45min video
17:57:45 <Sgeo> elliott, is TinyXP an option?
17:58:00 <itidus21> oh yeah, you guys aren't running windows xp
17:59:45 <Sgeo> "BowieWorld is a trip"
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18:00:42 <itidus21> worlds has patented proprietry technology? i can imagine the kind of innovation
18:03:19 <kmc> elliott: that sounds actually trivial to me
18:04:46 <itidus21> Sgeo: i wonder how many times navyboy said "I don't" during that video
18:05:57 <itidus21> it's like he lacked any conceptual infrastructure to understand what he was doing
18:10:49 <quintopia> is there a name for keys that are only tapered on two sides?
18:11:28 <itidus21> Sgeo: i really enjoyed that though. i would like to make software like that
18:13:36 <itidus21> im not happy with the idea that anything i saw there was innovative enough for patents though
18:13:56 <itidus21> maybe some optimized algorithm implementations perhaps
18:17:36 <Sgeo> Was not expecting to see a topless woman'
18:20:15 <Sgeo> Found the walking skeletons
18:26:38 <Sgeo> I just walked through the entire alien/skeleton/robot/pegasus adventure
18:32:03 <Sgeo> I more or less knew what to expect
18:32:14 <Sgeo> Stole the avs, so now I can be a skeleton or robot thingy anytime I want
18:32:21 <Sgeo> Didn't think to take the alien avs, but I can
18:33:03 <Sgeo> Skeleton: avatar:dude.0EC__C__C__C__C__T7gltLbMbOaRbUbVaWeXeYIeJeKBbPeGbonesSHHH.rwg
18:33:11 <Sgeo> Robot thingy: avatar:sty.0ET4bfyC_AC_NC_UC0j0C0F0C0Z0PaGdudeSMMM1cG3birdieSMMMBGxIbGbitmanSmmmJb1cG3birdieSmmmKbWbGbitmanSmmmXb1cG3birdieSmmmYbNGxHbGdalek0a1a2a3a4cShhh5D0eD0fD0gD0fShhh6Shhh7D0dD0cD0cD0cShhh1bG3achooSy0ySm0y.rwg
18:33:12 <elliott> call the skeleton Malaria please
18:33:30 <quintopia> we should have a BF busy beaver competition. like, see who can write the program which prints the most characters in a given number of program characters (enough to allow complex programs, not enough to allow programs that would run until the universe ends)
18:33:58 <Taneb> You can run 'till the universe ends in 3 characters
18:34:15 <quintopia> Taneb: busy beaver implies the program must halt
18:34:27 <quintopia> infinite loops would be disqualified
18:34:48 <itidus21> but how can you know if a program will halt?
18:35:41 <kmc> that sounds like an annoying competition
18:36:16 <quintopia> it also sounds like a difficult puzzle
18:36:23 <itidus21> don't listen to me, for i am not a math guy
18:36:26 <elliott> quintopia: That was done with C programs.
18:36:36 <elliott> The entries were beautiful.
18:37:20 <kmc> i like that the busy beaver sequence is not just uncomputable, but it grows faster than any computable sequence
18:37:33 <elliott> quintopia: that's why I pinged shachaf for you
18:37:35 <itidus21> oh.. so the idea is bf programs which print out a set of +-<>,. ?
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18:43:29 <elliott> *OK, beam.determine_affected_cells time.
18:45:33 <itidus21> so, how does one obtain non-computable data.. does that rely on externalities?
18:45:51 <Taneb> brute force, I believe
18:46:09 <itidus21> ahh.. so brute force isn't counted as computation? :D
18:46:19 <quintopia> kmc: whats the reduction for that proof? i cant find it
18:46:28 <Taneb> Not if it's done by professional computer science people
18:46:35 <quintopia> i know it goes to halting problem, but not how
18:46:53 <Taneb> Rather than computers?
18:47:03 <elliott> If it's computable whether some data is the non-computable data, and the non-computable data is finite, then the data is computable.
18:47:47 <Taneb> You need the professional computer science people to figure out if it halts or not
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18:48:07 <itidus21> i should stop using words i really don't understand
18:48:27 <Taneb> I should stop making things up to sound clever
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18:49:40 <itidus21> theres plenty of words i do understand.
18:50:09 <kmc> quintopia: if you had a computable upper bound for busy beaver, you could solve the halting problem
18:50:18 <kmc> just run the program as long as the bound says
18:50:33 <quintopia> just run a program until your upper bound was reached.if it hasnt halted, it wont
18:50:49 <nortti_> what *bsd os would you recomend for novice bsd user that has used other kind of unixes for 6 years
18:51:37 <itidus21> (looking at wiki) just consult an oracle for the values of S(n)
18:54:45 <kmc> (by "grows faster" we mean that for any computable sequence A, there is some k such that for all n>k, BusyBeaver[n] > A[n])
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18:58:25 <olsner> I wonder if it would be fun to be a firmware engineer
18:58:30 <elliott> I was considering saying "Linux". :(
18:59:19 <olsner> and I can never decide what "system" engineer or developer means
19:00:06 <nortti_> olsner: Linux doesn't seem to be bsd os
19:00:34 <olsner> sometimes it seems to mean putting widgets together into flying gadgets (like, hardware stuff), other times it seems to mean either high-level stuff, very low-level stuff (i.e. systems programming as in C), other times building vast networks of crud screens in Java
19:01:05 <fizzie> I'm under the impression that Free is the most mainstreamy of them.
19:01:34 <elliott> nortti_: You should ask Chris for his opinions.
19:01:37 <elliott> Tell him Elliott sent you.
19:01:47 <olsner> nortti_: sweden is australia, so linux is also bsd
19:02:03 <nortti_> elliott: where can I find him
19:02:39 <elliott> Erm, http://catseye.tc/. But maybe you shouldn't actually do that.
19:02:47 <elliott> Oh, what the hell, go for it.
19:03:14 <olsner> hmm, here was an ad for a "development engineer"
19:05:43 <olsner> other things I have a hard time with: jobs with "senior" in the title
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19:06:18 <olsner> can never decide whether I'd like to call myself senior, or whether it's maybe a bad thing to get involved in
19:06:40 <Taneb> olsner, 17. Worked for me
19:06:44 <shachaf> elliott: The "biggest number" C program?
19:06:56 <olsner> Taneb: thanks, 13 to you
19:07:45 <shachaf> elliott: I don't remember the URL.
19:08:20 <shachaf> elliott: If you really want it I can look it up this evening.
19:08:31 <elliott> Well, quintopia is the one who'd appreciate it.
19:08:40 <shachaf> quintopia: If you really want it I can look it up this evening.
19:09:18 <shachaf> The idea was that you have pseudo-C with an unlimited-size int, and you're supposed to write a function that returns the biggest possible int in under 512 bytes.
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19:15:04 <Sgeo> Worlds is seeing a surge of people
19:15:11 <Sgeo> This is a good thing in my opinion
19:15:28 <Sgeo> And it's all because of that video
19:24:15 * ais523 wonders why, in Java, setAccessible works on things like java.lang.Integer
19:24:33 <ais523> you can apparently modify Integers to be redefinable, then redefine them
19:30:34 <nortti_> another term for byte endiangness
19:31:15 <nortti_> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEX_(computing)
19:34:58 <oerjan> it's because geeks don't need the word for the usual meaning
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19:46:06 <olsner> medical imaging, is that fun? or maybe secure communication systems, which looked more low level
19:47:29 <olsner> surfing around for jobs in the area, thought I might switch if I find something fun
19:50:06 <itidus21> Sgeo: was it due to the 13min video?
19:50:53 <itidus21> i guess that goes without saying..
19:51:21 <kmc> wow a joke about geeks not getting laid
19:51:24 <kmc> how clever
19:51:34 <olsner> kmc: it's funny because geeks don't get laid
19:51:54 <elliott> kmc: stfu i spent like three seconds suppressing the urge to snark on it if i can resist everyone must
19:52:15 <kmc> except that's not actually true
19:52:33 <itidus21> the geeks who don't get laid are the ones who lack skill
19:52:43 <kmc> i guess jokes are founded on lies often
19:52:43 <elliott> thank you for your input itidus21
19:53:01 <elliott> kmc: well, lies are a different thing to stereotypes
19:53:08 <kmc> it's hard to make friends if you are surrounded by people very different from you
19:53:11 <elliott> jokes based on stereotypes are usually not actually funny
19:53:13 <itidus21> skill generates income which attracts women
19:53:13 <kmc> which is why geeks don't get laid in high school
19:53:18 <kmc> fortunately, real life is not high school
19:55:17 <itidus21> ok i like hiding behind the fallacious stereotype though i secretly know geeks get laid as much as non-geeks, and it's other factors entirely which determine laid or not
19:55:42 <Sgeo> itidus21, the yes was to the surge being caused by the video
19:55:44 <kmc> i'm not sure about "as much"
19:56:12 <kmc> but i think how much sex you have as an adult correlates less with how popular you were in high school than people tend to assume
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19:57:09 <Sgeo> I feel like I should not contribute to this conversation.
19:57:43 <kmc> so contribute to the meta-conversation
19:58:17 <elliott> what's the opposite of meta
19:58:39 <kmc> para or ortho, take your pick
19:58:50 <elliott> contribute to the orthoconversation
19:58:57 <elliott> I wonder what the orthoconversation of a regular conversation is
19:59:56 <Sgeo> I never contribute to meta-conversations.
20:00:14 <elliott> the orthometaconversation would be itself
20:00:46 <Sgeo> Perfectly cromulent word.
20:00:52 <Sgeo> Also, that meme is overused.
20:00:57 <olsner> meh, I should just go to bed and read a book
20:01:25 <olsner> but what I really should do though is locate all versions of my CV and figure out which one is the latest
20:01:29 <itidus21> ok, in a metaconversational sense, it seems my style makes it more necessary to indicate when a post is made in response to me with my nick
20:02:03 <itidus21> kmc's nick was also referenced several times before mine
20:02:48 <itidus21> it's probably best if i stay out of the metaconversation!
20:09:10 <Sgeo> A website powered by Java on the backend could reasonably require knowledge of both
20:14:14 <ais523> Sgeo: but that would imply that the job was highly enterprisey
20:14:19 <ais523> so it's probably still a bad sign
20:14:34 <ais523> Java on webservers is on the short list of things that let you know you should run away
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20:19:14 <kmc> yeah, people will assume you worked in an EnterpriseJavaBeanFrameworkSolutionFactory
20:20:33 <oerjan> the beans being soy and lent
20:20:40 <fizzie> public String getHelpImTrappedInTheJavaBeanFactory();
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23:00:20 <ion> I think i’ve seen some HD clips of ES and i don’t remember thinking they look worse than the standard stuff.
23:00:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, those HD clips are prerendered and possibly are being held back as a future premium thing.
23:01:41 <elliott> ion: btw watch NEQOXEC on CAO when it's on.
23:09:57 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: Calculating your weed schedule?
23:10:39 <elliott> Is that 10 weeds every hour?
23:10:45 <elliott> Your garden will be awful.
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23:33:44 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
23:35:31 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages messages?
23:38:33 <elliott> monqy: it's ok if you have +23 cpa and berk trj
23:39:54 <elliott> did i ask you if you know where fire storm targetting is handled
23:40:21 <elliott> do you know where fire storm targetting is handled
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23:41:36 <elliott> i might just ask elliptic since he seems to be responsible for new_squarelos and it's a Squarelos Problem
23:47:38 <elliott> and got a summoning rod from xom
23:47:53 <elliott> by "from xom" i mean xom gave a scroll of acq which gave the rod
23:47:59 <elliott> and now it's like +ridiculous
23:48:21 <monqy> rods rods rods is 100% muck
23:48:45 <elliott> im not the one who said it was fake musu first!
23:48:48 <elliott> you had to ~see it happen~
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