←2012-07-17 2012-07-18 2012-07-19→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:09:38 <FireFly> `fetch me a sandwich
00:09:40 <HackEgo> wget: unable to resolve host address `me a sandwich'
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00:51:48 <oerjan> `welcome nshelton
00:51:52 <HackEgo> nshelton: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:52:03 <nshelton> cool
00:52:48 <oerjan> bit quiet this evening
00:53:16 * quintopia hands oerjan a bullhorn o=<
00:54:00 * oerjan blows the bullhorn
00:54:03 <oerjan> _____ ___ ___ _____
00:54:03 <oerjan> |_ _/ _ \ / _ \_ _|
00:54:03 <oerjan> | || | | | | | || |
00:54:03 <oerjan> | || |_| | |_| || |
00:54:03 <oerjan> |_| \___/ \___/ |_|
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00:55:19 <quintopia> you blew mdude right out of the channel
00:55:34 <oerjan> temporarily
00:56:29 <quintopia> well i suspect if you'd kept blowing it could have held him off
00:56:38 <oerjan> MAYBE
00:56:42 <kmc> TRAAAAAIN
00:57:00 <oerjan> BRAAAAAINS
00:57:08 <quintopia> GRAAAAAIINS
00:57:12 <oerjan> oh wait, you said train, never mind
00:57:37 * oerjan goes back to gnawing on someone's leg
01:00:15 <shachaf> kmc: So what does TRAAAAAIN mean?
01:01:14 <kmc> it means TRAAAAAIN
01:01:25 <shachaf> kmc: Did you try saying it in that other channel?
01:01:28 <kmc> there is some channel where a bot will print an ASCII train if you say that
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01:01:35 <kmc> i did not try it yet
01:01:36 <shachaf> Ah. Yes. That channel.
01:01:51 <shachaf> kmc: They actually have three bots.
01:02:02 <shachaf> Each of them prints only a few lines of the train.
01:02:03 <kmc> otherwise it would flood
01:02:05 <kmc> yeah
01:02:08 <shachaf> Yep.
01:02:26 <shachaf> They also respond to TERRAAAAAIN and PLAAAAANE and other things.
01:02:38 <oerjan> BOOOOOAT?
01:02:39 <shachaf> Ask lexande. lexasknde
01:02:57 <shachaf> oerjan: Nope.
01:03:01 <kmc> PLANTAAAAAIN
01:03:02 <oerjan> aww
01:03:04 <shachaf> Yes.
01:03:20 <oerjan> SPAAAAAIN
01:03:28 <shachaf> I think I tried that.
01:04:14 <oerjan> EXPLAAAAAIN
01:04:55 <oerjan> urricanes ardly hever appen
01:06:53 <oerjan> Likewise, it is considered technically incorrect that hurricanes ever in fact happen in Hertford, Hereford, or Hampshire (in the UK), as the only hurricane force (≥64 knot) winds occurring in these areas are due to extratropical cyclones which, in spite of having hurricane force winds, are not strictly speaking hurricanes due to their different physical causes and dynamics.
01:07:00 <oerjan> thank you, wikipedia.
01:07:33 <shachaf> Wait, so if they never appen, it means they don't ardly hever appen?
01:07:50 <oerjan> hobviously
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01:12:28 <kallisti> `run du -hd0 .git
01:12:31 <HackEgo> du: invalid option -- 'd' \ Try `du --help' for more information.
01:12:32 <kallisti> `run du -hd0 .hg
01:12:32 <Phantom_Hoover> <shachaf> The RAAAAAIN in SPAAAAAIN STAAAAAYS MAAAAAINLY in the PLAAAAAIN
01:12:35 <HackEgo> du: invalid option -- 'd' \ Try `du --help' for more information.
01:12:38 <Phantom_Hoover> It's 'FALLS' you MORON
01:12:38 <kallisti> `run du -h -d0 .hg
01:12:42 <HackEgo> du: invalid option -- 'd' \ Try `du --help' for more information.
01:12:48 <kallisti> wtf kind of du is this
01:13:17 <kallisti> `run du -hc .hg | tail -n 1
01:13:21 <HackEgo> 33M.total
01:14:37 * oerjan swats Phantom_Hoover -----###
01:14:39 <oerjan> NOPE
01:15:31 <shachaf> @karma vim/emacs/notepad
01:15:31 <lambdabot> vim/emacs/notepad has a karma of 1
01:15:34 <shachaf> kmc: Good editor, right?
01:15:53 <kmc> AM I RITE?!?!?!?!?!?!?
01:16:03 <kmc> penis balls
01:16:20 <oerjan> @karma pico
01:16:21 <lambdabot> pico has a karma of 0
01:17:14 <oerjan> @karma teco
01:17:15 <lambdabot> teco has a karma of 0
01:17:24 <oerjan> *Gasp*
01:17:27 <oerjan> teco++
01:18:24 <shachaf> kmc: You should invent an esolang called ++C
01:18:41 <shachaf> And then complain to people that ++C/C++ is undefined behavior.
01:18:47 <oerjan> like C++, but more proactive
01:19:02 <kmc> haha
01:19:47 <shachaf> proäctive
01:23:33 <Gregor> #esoteric: Channel of diaeresis marks.
01:25:43 <oerjan> indeëd
01:26:10 * oerjan hopes Gregor isn't in a foül moöd
01:26:16 <shachaf> ïndëëd
01:26:24 <shachaf> Oops, that was too many.
01:26:33 <shachaf> ındėėd
01:27:03 <oerjan> it's a small step for man, a great step for unicodë
01:27:38 <shachaf> üṅıċȯḋė
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01:37:29 <kallisti> what do I want to set COLORTERM to if I want 16-bit color
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01:43:22 <kallisti> Gregor: what's the default user when running inside umlbox
01:43:34 <kallisti> and what's the best way to change that.
01:45:17 <Gregor> The default user within umlbox is an imaginary user with the same ID as the host user, and the nature of UML makes that effectively impossible to change while still allowing any filesystem access at all.
01:45:40 <kallisti> ah okay
01:46:45 <kallisti> is the imaginary user in the same groups as the original? From my playing around with umlbox, it seems as though the sandbox user is always considered "other" within hostfs mountpoints.
01:49:22 <kallisti> `ls --color
01:49:24 <HackEgo> ​.[0m.[01;34mbin.[0m \ canary \ foo \ karma \ .[01;34mlib.[0m \ .[01;34mpaste.[0m \ quotes \ .[01;34mshare.[0m \ .[01;34mwisdom.[0m
01:57:03 <zzo38> Gregor: Did you write any musics recently? What programd have you used for such things? Do you know of PPMCK?
01:57:16 <Gregor> zzo38: Only acoustic, none as they were acoustic, no.
01:57:52 <zzo38> Gregor: Using what instruments?
01:59:13 <Gregor> My digital piano. (OK, not really acoustic, but effectively acoustic)
02:05:23 <pikhq> You should definitely push it as "electronic". :)
02:07:26 <zzo38> I sometimes play piano, although when I write music I want to write music on paper using standard musical notation or on computer using MML.
02:08:28 <zzo38> What model of digital piano?
02:09:31 <kallisti> `ls logs
02:09:34 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access logs: No such file or directory
02:09:44 <kallisti> `ls
02:09:47 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ foo \ karma \ lib \ paste \ quotes \ share \ wisdom
02:11:38 <kallisti> `run paste "`which paste`"
02:11:41 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.30276
02:12:01 <zzo38> Did you put this music on the computer? Do you have other musical instruments? Did you ever use any non-12-TET?
02:14:27 <kallisti> Gregor: I'm currently writing a hackbot clone using my perl bot instead of multibot and git instead of hg
02:14:36 <kallisti> and then seeing if I can do daemons.
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02:22:22 <zzo38> I have recently written some cover of music, using an improved version of PPMCK, to make .NSF music.
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03:09:29 <Sgeo_> tswett, monqy update
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03:23:37 <tswett> Thank you.
03:45:30 <oerjan> finally they have started updating monqy again!
03:56:02 <kallisti> Gregor: my current IRC sandbox thing uses one git repo. it doesn't clone the repo on each command. Is this a bad idea? Why did you set it up that way with hackbot?
03:56:27 <Gregor> kallisti: So that simultaneously running commands can't interfere.
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03:56:40 <kallisti> ah I see.
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04:02:30 <kallisti> I'm not actually sure if my bot handles commands simultaneously or not. if it does it's part of the perl library I'm using.
04:02:50 <kallisti> I think it does, it just gives the appearance of sequential operation by buffering the output.
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04:51:10 <kallisti> Calico: hi
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04:51:15 <Calico> kallisti: Hello there.
04:52:17 <oerjan> `welcome Calico
04:52:21 <HackEgo> Calico: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
04:52:40 <Sgeo_> Phantom_Hoover, did you see the update?
04:52:45 <Phantom_Hoover> That I did.
04:53:10 <zzo38> Calico: Do you like this???????????
04:53:26 <Calico> If you're talking about excess quotation marks then no.
04:53:30 <Calico> Question, even
04:53:40 <Calico> I'm so tired, I'm going to leave in a minute anyway.
04:54:52 <zzo38> OK
05:22:42 <oerjan> wtf
05:23:09 * oerjan tried registering on ghc trac but couldn't understand the captcha :(
05:24:33 * oerjan slides away, robotically
05:29:01 <zzo38> "Someone who sacrifice Liberty for Security deserves neither." -Benjamin Franklin
05:38:40 * oerjan makes his first reddit comment instead.
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05:39:00 <kmc> noooooo
05:39:22 <oerjan> kmc: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/wp70x/lambdacase_and_multiway_if_added_to_ghc_head_for/c5fn688?context=1
05:39:40 <oerjan> i had to point it _somewhere_ :(
05:39:43 <oerjan> *it out
05:41:43 <oerjan> basically we now have the dangling if from hell :P
05:43:08 * oerjan realizes this means he's going to feel obliged to vote on stuff now
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06:47:27 <kallisti> so
06:47:28 <kallisti> guys
06:47:31 <kallisti> I made
06:47:33 <kallisti> an esolang
06:50:54 <coppro> so.
06:51:09 <coppro> the fact that all monoids have coequalizers is far more interesting
06:52:44 <zzo38> coppro: What does it mean?
06:52:56 <zzo38> What is a coequalizer?
07:02:07 <copumpkin> you know what an equalizer?
07:02:08 <copumpkin> is
07:03:03 <zzo38> Actually I don't know that either
07:05:05 * kallisti comes to #esoteric
07:05:08 * kallisti announces esolang.
07:05:16 * kallisti is ignored for maths.
07:05:22 <copumpkin> aww
07:05:25 <kallisti> :_(
07:05:39 <zzo38> kallisti: What esolang did you make?
07:05:48 <kallisti> zzo38: can you read perl?
07:05:56 <kallisti> I have a reference interpreter in perl.
07:05:56 <zzo38> Somewhat.
07:06:22 <zzo38> I am writing a music!
07:06:24 <kallisti> it's based off of dupdog, in some ways.
07:06:36 <pikhq> We couldn't have the channel be *on topic*, now could we?
07:06:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait shit those guys in that one Simpsons episode in France were called Ugolin and Cesar?
07:06:42 <Phantom_Hoover> HOW DID I NEVER KNOW
07:06:47 <zzo38> kallisti: OK and in what way?
07:06:50 <kallisti> but more-to-the-point, at the sacrifice of possibly being turing complete
07:07:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has set topic: no esolang talk for [0] days | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
07:07:28 <Phantom_Hoover> (dammit kallisti)
07:07:38 <kallisti> zzo38: a character in the source code is interpreted as a command; the command modifies the source code. the process repeats.
07:08:01 <kallisti> in dupdog, the first character in the source is interpreted as a command. in dogless, it's the character after the first ]
07:08:30 <kallisti> (there's only one interpreter. no alternating interpreters.)
07:09:06 <zzo38> OK
07:10:25 <kallisti> http://sprunge.us/JGVg?perl current source. I haven't fully tested it.
07:11:23 <kallisti> another difference is that commands can have character arguments. > and < are substition commands
07:11:49 <kallisti> >ab substitutes the first a that occurs after the command for b
07:12:02 <kallisti> <ab substitutes /all/ the a's the occur before the ] marker with b's
07:13:49 <kallisti> ? reverses the source, ~ duplicates the source. ^ swaps everything on the left with everything on the right. abc[^def becomes def[abc
07:14:39 <kallisti> ! deletes everything on the left. abc[!def becomes [def
07:15:44 <kallisti> [ removes everything up to and including the next ]
07:15:50 <kallisti> ][this is ignored]!
07:15:55 <kallisti> becomes [!
07:16:26 <kallisti> (or the end of the string if there's no matching ])
07:16:46 <kallisti> anything else is just moved from one side of the ] to the other. abc[def becomes abcd[ef
07:17:57 <kallisti> if there's no ], the program terminates, and the output is the source code.
07:20:17 <zzo38> OK
07:33:06 <itidus20> Phantom_Hoover: ahh the exchange student program where bart learns french.. yeah
07:34:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Except now I realise it's a really blatant reference to the villains of Jean de Florette.
07:34:50 <itidus20> simpsons is littered with references...
07:35:17 <Phantom_Hoover> I know, but that one surprised me.
07:35:43 <itidus20> i was flicking a library book about animation and discovered that there is infact a "jolly little elves"
07:35:47 <itidus20> or something like that
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08:00:57 <kallisti> so yeah, I guess I should make a wiki page.
08:01:41 <kallisti> and maybe attempt to do something interesting with it.
08:02:28 <kallisti> I don't see any other kind of arithmetic besides unary being feasible really.
08:04:18 <soundnfury> dunno, you might be able to shuttle back and forth somehow, with substers at each end
08:04:45 <soundnfury> (and ?s)
08:04:50 <kallisti> oh btw I changed < so that it works like >
08:04:53 <kallisti> only one substition is made
08:05:09 <soundnfury> oh
08:05:11 <kallisti> I guess the asymmetry could be useful somehow
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08:34:04 <kallisti> 11|11[]<|1<1]
08:34:22 <kallisti> this entirely uninterested dogless program takes 2 numbers specified in unary and seperated by |'s
08:34:26 <kallisti> and adds them together
08:34:30 <kallisti> the result is: 1111
08:39:32 <kallisti> $ echo -n '11|11[]<|1<1]' | scripts/Dogless.pl -d | sprunge
08:39:44 <kallisti> http://sprunge.us/Ldbc
08:41:05 <kallisti> unary arithmetic has never been so exciting.
08:42:25 <itidus20> Beer: Helping to make unary arithmetic exciting since 1862!
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09:39:13 <nooga> meh
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10:51:48 <itidus20> one thing i don't like about linguistics is when well-meaning people tell things that are 90% true
10:54:15 <itidus20> if people liked speaking in languages which have a 1 to 1 correspondance with a definition they could just go to latin
10:57:06 <itidus20> "is "but" an interjection? not in english" "my friends use "but" as an interjection, are my friends speaking english? your friends are idiots" "(defeated face)"
10:57:53 <olsner> it is an interjection when you use it as one
10:58:37 <itidus20> "have your friends published anything? why? if they publish something using but as an interjection we can reference it in OED"
10:59:13 <itidus20> "actually wait.. that alone won't be enough.. but it will be a leg up"
10:59:55 <itidus20> olsner: must be
11:00:34 <olsner> I would say that every word can be used as an interjection
11:00:47 <itidus20> i think english interjection but is equivalent to japanese ka particle :D
11:01:11 <itidus20> no wait
11:01:17 <itidus20> its not indicating a question always
11:01:18 <olsner> kedo?
11:01:53 <itidus20> ive heard it used as slang in australia :P
11:02:23 <itidus20> sorta like "i gotta go" "yeah, how come but?"
11:04:38 <itidus20> i think i don't understand linguistics nearly well enough to have a clue whats happening there
11:12:24 <mroman> ka is not really an interjection I'd say.
11:12:36 <mroman> It's a question marking particle if used at the end of a sentence.
11:14:23 <olsner> I remember reading that question marking particles are more common than using word sequence or intonation to mark questions
11:15:53 <mroman> yes
11:16:15 <mroman> Are you a dog. You are a dog.
11:16:23 <mroman> That's what you mean by word sequence?
11:16:30 <mroman> You can't do that in japanese.
11:16:51 <mroman> You can't just switch the position of the verb.
11:17:54 <nortti> in finnish you add usually add suffix -ko when doing that. (For example "Sinä olet koira" -> "Oletko sinä koira")
11:18:14 <olsner> word order is kind of fluid in japanese as I understand it, but in english you can't switch freely because it might make your statement a question
11:18:50 <mroman> That's the point, yes.
11:18:58 <mroman> Are you a dog is clearly a question
11:19:17 <mroman> You are a dog could be a question but it's usually just a statement.
11:19:32 <olsner> You're a dog!?
11:19:39 <mroman> The word order in japanese is subject object verb
11:20:10 <mroman> The verb always comes at the end.
11:21:13 <mroman> and a correct sentence does not need a subject neither an object.
11:21:18 <nortti> best channel name ever: #!/bin/mksh
11:24:29 <olsner> ah, here it is: http://wals.info/feature/116A
11:28:15 <mroman> oh
11:28:18 <mroman> you meant globally
11:30:08 <mroman> http://wals.info/feature/49A?s=20&z3=3000&z4=2999&z5=2998&z2=2997&z7=2996&z8=2995&z9=2994&z6=2993&z1=2992&tg_format=map&v1=cfff&v2=cffc&v3=cff0&v4=cfc0&v5=cf40&v6=cd00&v7=ca00&v8=c000&v9=dfff
11:30:12 <mroman> interesting.
11:39:35 <Vorpal> 20 MB/s download speed... How I wish that was not only on a server I'm sshed to atm.
11:39:48 <Vorpal> (that is megabyte)
11:39:53 <Vorpal> (not megabit)
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12:05:47 <fizzie> 100%[=======================================================================>] 177,209,344 81.9M/s in 2.1s
12:05:51 <fizzie> That's in bytes too.
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12:15:37 <olsner> Vorpal: fizzie wins
12:25:18 <itidus20> to me, video:audio::c:haskell
12:28:24 <fizzie> olsner: Sadly, it's all due someone else. (It was on my workstation at work.)
12:28:47 <fizzie> At home-work, to be specific. Wait, that sounds wrong too.
12:29:43 <olsner> the workstation in your working-from-home office?
12:31:57 <fizzie> The workstation at the place of work where I usually am, as opposed to this current temporary location.
12:32:11 <fizzie> But it's not quite "home" in the normal sense.
12:32:36 <fizzie> @wn home
12:32:36 <lambdabot> *** "home" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
12:32:36 <lambdabot> home
12:32:36 <lambdabot> adv 1: at or to or in the direction of one's home or family; "He
12:32:38 <lambdabot> stays home on weekends"; "after the game the children
12:32:40 <lambdabot> brought friends home for supper"; "I'll be home
12:32:42 <lambdabot> [43 @more lines]
12:32:46 <fizzie> Bleh.
12:33:03 <olsner> your work-away-from-work?
12:33:14 <fizzie> 5. (2) base, home -- (the place where you are stationed and from which missions start and end)
12:33:24 <fizzie> I guess that sense sort of matches.
12:33:36 <fizzie> If I take the view that I'm currently on a "mission".
12:34:02 <fizzie> They do pay me some daily allowance cost-of-living kind of thing for the duration of this trip.
12:35:57 <olsner> a per-diem?
12:39:16 <fizzie> Yes.
12:39:19 <fizzie> Exactly that.
12:39:24 <fizzie> I didn't know there was a word for it.
12:39:28 <fizzie> @wn per-diem
12:39:28 <lambdabot> No match for "per-diem".
12:39:31 <fizzie> Huh.
12:39:36 <fizzie> @wn perdiem
12:39:37 <lambdabot> No match for "perdiem".
12:39:41 <fizzie> (Typo.)
12:39:43 <fizzie> @wn per_diem
12:39:43 <lambdabot> No match for "per_diem".
12:39:58 <fizzie> Weird thing. The WordNet at the aforementioned workstation knows about it.
12:40:24 <fizzie> $ wn per_diem -over
12:40:24 <fizzie> Overview of noun per_diem
12:40:24 <fizzie> The noun per diem has 1 sense (no senses from tagged texts)
12:40:24 <fizzie> 1. per diem -- (a daily allowance for living expenses (especially while traveling in connection with your job))
12:40:28 <fizzie> See.
12:40:47 <fizzie> It's Release 3.0 too.
12:40:55 <olsner> oh, of course it's not written with a hyphen in english
12:41:05 <fizzie> Maybe the lambdabot hookup doesn't do the underscore that the command line interface does.
12:41:05 <nortti> http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/12/07/17/205255/anti-piracy-group-fined-for-using-song-without-permission
12:41:08 <fizzie> @wn per diem
12:41:09 <lambdabot> No match for "per".
12:41:09 <lambdabot> No match for "diem".
12:41:16 <fizzie> @wn "per diem"
12:41:17 <lambdabot> *** "per diem" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
12:41:17 <lambdabot> per diem
12:41:17 <lambdabot> adv 1: one every day; "we'll save 100 man-hours per diem" [syn:
12:41:17 <lambdabot> {per diem}, {by the day}]
12:41:17 <lambdabot> n 1: a daily allowance for living expenses (especially while
12:41:19 <lambdabot> traveling in connection with your job)
12:41:20 <fizzie> There.
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12:57:26 <itidus20> newly announced jfeg (joint forum experts group) compression scheme uses data such as what a person's source of income is to predict their comments during flame wars
13:00:10 <nortti> how?
13:00:33 <nortti> also do you have link?
13:01:10 <itidus20> header includes field containing location of first hitler reference in thread
13:02:48 <itidus20> nortti: sorry, it only exists in my imagination
13:03:51 <nortti> oj
13:05:12 <itidus20> i said it cos i read this
13:05:18 <itidus20> "So we don't need to discuss this anymore. Copyright infringement is "THEFT" http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber/ipr"
13:05:37 <itidus20> and i had to vent somehow
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15:06:32 <nooga> um
15:06:56 <nooga> does somebody know how to recover files in OS X?
15:07:18 <nortti> fsck?
15:19:04 <sebbu> mv ~/.Trash/$file $file
15:21:54 <nooga> i've lost whole project when trying to import it into Xcode
15:22:20 <nooga> how the hell am I supposed to find C sources on this goddamn partition
15:22:26 <nooga> deleted C sources
15:27:17 <ion> I hate it when people rob my thoughts and don’t leave me with a copy. :-(
15:27:21 <ion> s/with //
15:28:11 <nooga> nortti: what do you mean fsck?
15:28:33 <nortti> I have recovered files from broken fs with it
15:33:04 <nooga> FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUU
15:33:16 <nooga> i will reimplement this shit
15:33:18 <nooga> fine
15:34:01 <ion> Does it have something called Time Machine? I’m not familiar with it, i’ve just heard the name. Filesystem snapshots, i presume.
15:37:15 <fizzie> You need to make those happen, I believe.
15:38:07 <fizzie> And I think conventionally you do those on a separate volume.
15:38:13 <fizzie> Or a Time Capsule.
15:49:48 <itidus20> it sounds like the program name fsck is a play on the word fuck, but applying to file systems
15:51:33 <nortti> file system check
15:52:01 <itidus20> no, it means fuck
15:52:09 <itidus20> :P
15:52:16 <itidus20> @google fsck
15:52:17 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fsck
15:52:18 <lambdabot> Title: fsck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
15:52:43 <itidus20> O_o The system utility fsck (for "file system check") is a tool for checking the consistency of a file system
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16:16:18 <itidus20> you guys sure like foo, isn't foo just bar?
16:17:33 <itidus20> i mean the world was just fine before foo
16:18:04 <itidus20> maybe i am just thinking too homeostasis
16:18:15 <itidus20> not progressive enough
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16:19:07 <itidus20> it's almost as if the main payoff of foo is the ability to appreciate foo
16:19:34 <itidus20> maybe it's just me
16:20:27 <itidus20> ;
16:20:46 <itidus20> youse fellers sure dig foo, ain't foo just like bar?
16:21:51 <itidus20> foo is probably just a product of the industrial age
16:22:09 <itidus20> i guess i can't cope with change
16:25:38 <FireFly> you can't order beer from a foo
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16:39:54 <nooga> shmoo
16:40:02 <nooga> i've lost the project
16:40:14 <nooga> 3 KLOC
16:40:16 <nooga> UHH
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16:45:07 <nortti> Yay. my minidistro is now ready. Complete size is under 4MB (including build system, sources, patches and binaries). It includes toybox, sash, my own crappy init and mksh
16:45:47 <Gregor> Not small enough to fit on a floppy disk.
16:45:53 <Gregor> Not even a superformatted one.
16:46:36 <nortti> well is it build staticaly against glibc. next step is swich to musl
16:46:50 <nortti> also just binaries it 2.3MB
16:47:43 <Gregor> Mmmm.
16:47:52 <nortti> *is
16:48:27 <nortti> and mksh can be replaced with heirloom-sh if needed
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17:09:59 <itidus20> nooga: what you need now is, not to realize anything in particular, but to act in accordance with the understanding that the project is gone (unless it isn't, which it is)
17:10:41 <itidus20> last few words wrong
17:19:09 <nooga> it will be fun
17:19:15 <nooga> i will make it better
17:19:17 <nooga> naaah
17:19:20 <nooga> fml
17:19:38 <nortti> why?
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17:55:15 <epicmonkey> FireFly: can you hang out at the foo till 5am?
17:56:23 -!- Gregor has set topic: no foo talk for [0] days | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
17:58:43 <itidus20> theres nothing good on tv
18:01:06 -!- lament has joined.
18:01:20 <lament> WHAT NOW
18:15:45 <itidus20> now.. we chat
18:16:28 -!- MDude has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
18:16:44 -!- MDude has joined.
18:18:35 <MDude> AHHHHHHHHHH
18:19:14 <itidus20> idea!
18:22:39 <MDude> Also, did anythig happen while I was disconnected that caused lament to screeam "no" or was that a response to nothing happening?
18:26:09 <itidus20> <lament> WHAT NOW <itidus20> now.. we chat <lament> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
18:26:55 <MDude> It's even worse than I thought!
18:28:35 <itidus20> no... it's even worse yet
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18:30:07 <itidus20> because this picture shows my idea.. http://oi46.tinypic.com/3466l1w.jpg
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18:32:34 <itidus20> the idea being to simulate someone, possibly with a mouse interface, playing a motion sensor console such as wii, psmove, or kinect
18:33:18 <nooga> huh
18:33:40 <itidus20> so you click and drag the figures arm up..
18:33:48 <nooga> what's the difference between JL and JB instructions?
18:34:01 <itidus20> and the swordsman in turn drags it's arm up
18:34:03 <nooga> less vs below
18:35:53 <itidus20> if you use a physics engine, you could make it so that the wiimote can be dropped if you move it too fast
18:36:09 <itidus20> or you could simulate having to replace the batteries
18:36:47 <itidus20> also input lag!
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18:37:39 <oerjan> <itidus20> if people liked speaking in languages which have a 1 to 1 correspondance with a definition they could just go to latin
18:37:51 <oerjan> latin isn't actually a logical language. hth.
18:38:03 <itidus20> oh !
18:38:44 -!- Taneb has joined.
18:38:51 <Taneb> Hello
18:38:58 <MDude> Make it a web application that can work in the PS3's and/or the Wii's browser.
18:38:58 <oerjan> hi Taneb
18:38:58 <itidus20> im basically trying to argue there against pedantry for pedantry sake
18:39:20 <Taneb> I'm in Durham
18:39:20 <MDude> Not sure if the former can take the psmove as a mouse input.
18:40:03 <itidus20> humm.. i suppose that pedantry serves the subtle purpose of preventing the language changing too quickly
18:40:54 <itidus20> but, we can let them think they are just trying to teach
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18:41:17 <itidus20> Ahahahahha
18:41:35 <oerjan> <olsner> I would say that every word can be used as an interjection <-- horsefeathers
18:41:44 * oerjan slides away, paradoxically
18:41:59 <olsner> hogwash!
18:42:22 <Sgeo_> When I was a kid, I thought the word "Hallelujah" came from the School House Rock song
18:42:56 <oerjan> nah it comes from handel
18:43:05 <Sgeo_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e24kdjdbtw
18:44:16 <oerjan> <itidus20> i think i don't understand linguistics nearly well enough to have a clue whats happening there <-- ask augur, then you'll get even more confused :P
18:44:54 <itidus20> i have heard the word used that way but
18:45:29 <itidus20> now i think its something more sinister than a mere interjection
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18:45:44 <itidus20> perhaps it's a but shift
18:46:02 <oerjan> <olsner> I remember reading that question marking particles are more common than using word sequence or intonation to mark questions <-- /me vaguely recalls that italian has intonation, but drops it if there is a question word
18:46:54 <oerjan> it's just a nice but
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18:47:16 * oerjan sidles away from the tar and feathers
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18:47:51 <oerjan> lament was here? and i managed to chase him away without even knowing.
18:48:32 <nortti> who is lament
18:49:17 <olsner> lament is lament
18:49:52 <oerjan> nortti: an esolanger of old times. also technically still an op here.
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18:50:17 <olsner> oh, I thought he was a haskeller more than an esolanger
18:50:46 <oerjan> i don't know if lament is a haskeller, i don't recall him from my time in #haskell
18:51:03 <oerjan> (which is getting a long time ago, anyway)
18:51:10 <oerjan> *becoming
18:51:54 <olsner> yes, I don't think I've ever seen you in the haskell channels
18:52:36 <oerjan> i think i was top 5 or 6 speaker in #haskell in 2008 or thereabouts.
18:53:06 <olsner> wow
18:53:33 <olsner> I think I might've been in #haskell around 2008
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19:02:32 <Taneb> Hello again
19:07:09 <Taneb> @ping
19:07:09 <lambdabot> pong
19:07:19 <nortti> @pång
19:07:20 <lambdabot> pong
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19:21:05 <Gregor> Removing google-chrome-stable ...
19:21:05 <Gregor> dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting:
19:21:05 <Gregor> fork failed: Cannot allocate memory
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19:21:09 <Gregor> Sometimes Google is downright evil.
19:21:48 <nortti> how?
19:22:15 <nortti> also why are you removing chrome?
19:22:50 <Gregor> I'm just trying to switch to my distro's packaged version instead of Google's.
19:23:04 <nortti> oh
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19:25:19 <Gregor> Bahahaha, I quit Firefox, then Chrome could be uninstalled.
19:26:17 <nortti> :P
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19:30:50 <Taneb> what is your favourite l system
19:31:09 <Taneb> I'm using my voice recognition
19:33:30 <Gregor> My favorite l system is l.
19:33:53 <Taneb> L-system
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19:34:20 <kmc>
19:34:25 <kmc> £
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19:34:40 <Taneb> :(
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19:46:33 <coppro> Taneb: L-system?
19:46:53 <Taneb> zt
19:46:57 <Taneb> bah
19:47:17 <Taneb> string rewritinh system
19:47:30 <Taneb> see Luigi on the wiki
19:47:35 <coppro> ah
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19:55:56 <oerjan> Taneb: 0 -> 01, 1 -> 10 has a certain nostalgy for me.
19:58:49 <Taneb> Thue-morse sequence
19:59:03 <Taneb> ?
19:59:19 <oerjan> indeed, my advisor liked to use it as example
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20:05:56 <Taneb> How can I say what the thue morse sequence
20:06:23 <Taneb> is in about two minutes?
20:07:01 <oerjan> well first you give the above substitution
20:07:06 <oerjan> then you just write
20:07:06 <oerjan> 0
20:07:07 <oerjan> 01
20:07:09 <oerjan> 0110
20:07:11 <oerjan> 01101001
20:07:18 <oerjan> 0110100110010110
20:07:58 <oerjan> and in the limit, you get an infinite sequence that is the substitution applied to itself.
20:09:07 <copumpkin> > fix ((>>= \x -> case x of '0' -> "01"; '1' -> "10") . ('0':))
20:09:10 <lambdabot> "01011001101001011010011001011001101001100101101001011001101001011010011001...
20:09:29 <oerjan> you might then point out that it's non-periodic, but every finite subsequence occurs with bounded gaps.
20:09:50 <oerjan> (which is what made it fit into the framework of my advisor)
20:10:26 <oerjan> (although for that you also need to extend it infinitely leftwards as well. there are two ways of doing so.)
20:10:45 <oerjan> either mirror, and mirror _and_ switch 0's and 1's.
20:10:56 <oerjan> *or mirror
20:11:40 <oerjan> uniform recurrence was the term for those bounded gaps
20:13:37 <oerjan> and the fact that there were two ways of extending leftwards meant that a tweak had to be made later when constructing the infinite diagrams.
20:14:44 <Taneb> Thanks
20:15:33 <oerjan> copumpkin: your sequence looks wrong.
20:16:02 <oerjan> > fix (('0':) . (>>= \x -> case x of '0' -> "01"; '1' -> "10") . tail)
20:16:06 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
20:16:09 <oerjan> wat
20:16:21 <oerjan> oh duh
20:16:37 <oerjan> > fix (("01"++) . (>>= \x -> case x of '0' -> "01"; '1' -> "10") . tail)
20:16:39 <lambdabot> "01101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101101001011001...
20:16:58 <oerjan> oh hm
20:17:09 <kallisti> also known as the "generic binary sequence in movies and television"
20:17:11 <oerjan> > fix ((>>= \x -> case x of '0' -> "01"; '1' -> "10") . ('0':) . tail)
20:17:13 <lambdabot> "01101001100101101001011001101001100101100110100101101001100101101001011001...
20:17:18 <oerjan> kallisti: it is? :P
20:17:21 <copumpkin> oerjan: what's wrong with it?
20:17:31 <kallisti> well, it reminds me of it.
20:17:36 <kallisti> it has enough variation.
20:17:42 <kallisti> to be just arbitrarily chosn 1's and 0's
20:17:43 <oerjan> copumpkin: you need to drop the 0 off before adding it again
20:17:56 <copumpkin> oerjan: nah, it's the same as yours except all concatted together, from what I can see?
20:18:07 <copumpkin> break it up into power-of-two chunks
20:18:36 <copumpkin> maybe I'm wrong :)
20:18:38 <oerjan> copumpkin: um it's _one_ infinite sequence of digits, not a sequence of sequences
20:19:20 <copumpkin> oh well I misunderstood then :P
20:20:11 <oerjan> copumpkin: you want a sequence that is a fixpoint of (>>= \x -> case x of '0' -> "01"; '1' -> "10"), but fix isn't lazy enough so you must help it along by choosing the first element, which ('0':) . tail does
20:20:42 <oerjan> without the tail, the result isn't a fixpoint of the original sense
20:20:59 <kallisti> so here's an idea for a language:
20:21:01 <kallisti> Y sed
20:21:09 <kallisti> a sed program with itself fed as input
20:21:25 <kallisti> iterated until the output is the same in X iterations.
20:22:45 <oerjan> <kallisti> to be just arbitrarily chosn 1's and 0's <-- you see that it isn't when you split it into some power of 2 chunks, though
20:23:03 <kallisti> well of course it's not "arbitrary" (whatever that even means in a technical sense)
20:23:35 <kallisti> I guess all binary sequences sound like "generic binary sequence from TV or movie"
20:23:48 <oerjan> another way of constructing it is to xor all the bits of the index position
20:24:36 <kallisti> Y sed is turing complete no? it's iterated regex.
20:24:53 <nortti> reminds me of ///
20:25:03 <oerjan> kallisti: i have heard that iterated sed is TC somehow, anyway
20:25:26 <kallisti> the difference here being that the source code is the input and the output
20:26:05 <olsner> sed can replace in a loop, it even has conditional jumps, so it's obviously TC
20:26:36 <kallisti> it seems like when you start forcing the source to be the input and output weird things start happening with its computational class. I somehow think that dogless isn't TC.
20:27:28 <oerjan> > [ chr . foldl1' ((xor .) . ord) . flip (showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit) "" | n <- [0..]]
20:27:30 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> a'
20:27:30 <lambdabot> against inferred type `GHC.Ty...
20:27:36 <oerjan> too optimistic
20:27:41 <oerjan> oh
20:28:00 <oerjan> > [ chr . foldl1' ((xor .) . ord) $ showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit n "" | n <- [0..]]
20:28:01 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> a'
20:28:01 <lambdabot> against inferred type `GHC.Ty...
20:28:10 <oerjan> hmph
20:28:12 <oerjan> oh
20:28:17 <kallisti> precedence?
20:28:19 <oerjan> > [ chr . foldl1 ((xor .) . ord) 0 $ showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit n "" | n <- [0..]]
20:28:20 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `a -> a'
20:28:21 <lambdabot> against inferred type `GHC.Ty...
20:28:32 <kallisti> oh nevermind
20:28:42 <oerjan> now what
20:28:53 <oerjan> :t (xor .) . ord
20:28:54 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `f a' against inferred type `Int'
20:28:54 <lambdabot> Expected type: Char -> f a
20:28:54 <lambdabot> Inferred type: Char -> Int
20:29:01 <oerjan> oh
20:29:15 <kallisti> :t xor
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20:29:16 <lambdabot> forall a. (Bits a) => a -> a -> a
20:29:19 <copumpkin> :t xor `on` ord
20:29:20 <lambdabot> Char -> Char -> Int
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20:29:27 <copumpkin> :t chr .: xor `on` ord
20:29:29 <lambdabot> Char -> Char -> Char
20:29:35 <oerjan> > [ chr . foldl1 (flip xor . ord) 0 $ showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit n "" | n <- [0..]]
20:29:36 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
20:29:36 <lambdabot> against inferred type...
20:30:03 <oerjan> :t flip xor . ord
20:30:05 <lambdabot> Char -> Int -> Int
20:30:23 <oerjan> > [ chr . foldl1 (flip (xor . ord)) 0 $ showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit n "" | n <- [0..]]
20:30:24 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Char'
20:30:25 <lambdabot> against inferred type...
20:30:32 <oerjan> ...this is getting awkward :P
20:30:41 <oerjan> oh
20:30:42 <kallisti> :t flip (xor . ord)
20:30:43 <lambdabot> Int -> Char -> Int
20:30:48 <oerjan> > [ chr . foldl' (flip (xor . ord)) 0 $ showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit n "" | n <- [0..]]
20:30:51 <lambdabot> "01\SOH\NUL1001\SOH\NUL\NUL\SOH\NUL\SOH\SOH\NUL1001011001101001\SOH\NUL\NUL...
20:30:56 <oerjan> oops XD
20:31:25 <mroman> about that output...
20:31:30 <oerjan> _maybe_ xor'ing digit characters isn't such a good operation :P
20:32:46 <kallisti> the perils of programming after too much abstract math.
20:33:18 <oerjan> somehow i had the idea that '0' `xor` '1' would be '1' etc.
20:34:08 <mroman> `xor` True is an Inverter ;)
20:34:14 <mroman> (and `xor` False is Identity)
20:34:17 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: xor`: not found
20:34:34 <kallisti> > (xor `on` read . return) 0 1 :: Word
20:34:35 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num GHC.Types.Char)
20:34:35 <lambdabot> arising from the literal `0...
20:34:44 <kallisti> > (xor `on` read . return) '0' '1' :: Word
20:34:46 <lambdabot> 1
20:34:50 <kallisti> > (xor `on` read . return) '1' '1' :: Word
20:34:52 <lambdabot> 0
20:35:28 <ais523> hmm, what are opinions on Rust in here?
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20:35:37 <ais523> it looks sort-of like what Splint was trying to do but better designed
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20:35:42 <ais523> it'll be nice to see what it's like when it's done
20:36:00 <kallisti> what is rust
20:36:01 <kallisti> help
20:36:14 <kallisti> ais523: btw I made a spiritual successor to dupdog
20:36:37 <kallisti> I need to do some other stuff before I can write up a wiki page for it.
20:36:58 <kallisti> http://sprunge.us/BiLC?perl reference interpreter in Perl.
20:38:12 <kallisti> ais523: looks interesting
20:38:13 <mroman> do you have to return $_?
20:38:16 <kallisti> I'll have to read more about it.
20:38:20 <kallisti> mroman: yes
20:38:25 <mroman> so
20:38:27 <kallisti> return; is just return undef
20:38:32 <mroman> although everything can handle $_
20:38:34 <mroman> return cant?
20:38:42 <kallisti> "everything" can't handle $_
20:38:47 <mroman> ok
20:38:47 <kallisti> many things can
20:38:48 <mroman> most
20:38:49 <kallisti> return is not one of those.
20:38:52 <mroman> pff.
20:38:54 <mroman> perl sucks :)
20:39:11 <kallisti> return; is typically used to exit a "void" function
20:39:16 <kallisti> so it would make sense that it returns an undefine result.
20:39:23 <kallisti> *undefined
20:39:33 <mroman> As much sense as any decision in perl can make ;)
20:39:43 <mroman> but yeah.
20:39:59 <mroman> having return; return $_ is probably a bad idea.
20:40:05 <kallisti> oh oopse so of my old recursion is showing
20:40:11 <kallisti> *some
20:40:28 <kallisti> I had written it recursive before but I don't think perl optimizes tail calls.
20:41:23 <kallisti> http://sprunge.us/BiLC?perl
20:41:29 <kallisti> er....
20:42:18 <kallisti> http://sprunge.us/aZYA?perl there we go
20:46:12 <itidus20> wikipedia has added popup text to those numbered reference links. those who use text browsers and the like can disregard.
20:49:58 <augur> oerjan: :D
20:51:00 <nortti> :P
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21:26:51 <kallisti> mroman: $_ is implicit in scalar builtin operators, usually string or numeric operators, and basically anything that takes one-argument. return isn't really a scalar operator.
21:27:11 <kallisti> its context depends on the calling context, in fact.
21:27:35 <kallisti> return could evaluate its argument in either list, scalar, or whatever-ekse context.
21:27:38 <kallisti> *else
21:31:54 <kallisti> ais523: structural typing in purely functional languages is something I'm interested in.
21:34:30 <nortti> structural typing?
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21:40:23 <kallisti> nortti: the type of a value is determined by the structure of its representation.
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23:38:41 <Gregor> `WELCOME WHAT_RIGHT
23:41:05 <FireFly> `WELcome
23:41:08 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: WELcome: not found
23:41:18 * FireFly wonders how many variations of the welcome command there are
23:41:26 * FireFly believes that he knows four
23:41:41 <oerjan> finally the `WELCOME command gets properly used!
23:42:48 <nortti_> FireFly: welcome, WELCOME and WeLcOmE
23:43:03 <FireFly> Isn't there also one in unicode fixed-width characters?
23:43:04 <nortti_> FireFly: what is the fourth
23:43:18 <nortti_> oh. that one
23:43:48 <WHAT_RIGHT> Too bad that link is broken
23:43:53 <nortti_> `WeLcOmE FireFly
23:43:57 <HackEgo> FiReFlY: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.)
23:44:11 <nortti_> oh. that still works
23:44:28 <WHAT_RIGHT> you should make it not break the capitalization in links
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23:45:38 <nortti_> wasn't there before a page at HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE?
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23:45:49 <oerjan> WHAT_RIGHT: our wiki admin was _supposed_ to make that link work, but i think he got stuck overengineering it (he wants to make it work for _any_ wiki page)
23:47:07 <oerjan> oh and probably to make it work for links followed too
23:47:23 <FireFly> couldn't you just do something about /wiki/ and then setup mediawiki redirects for the various variations of Main_page that are linked to?
23:47:50 <oerjan> FireFly: note that he wants the _page_ to show in all caps
23:47:52 <FireFly> the latter half should be possible without admin powers, even
23:47:57 <FireFly> Ah.
23:48:38 <oerjan> `welcome
23:48:41 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:48:51 <oerjan> feel free to visit that one instead :P
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