←2012-07-21 2012-07-22 2012-07-23→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:02 <kmc> that too
00:00:14 <Phantom_Hoover> And New South Wales.
00:00:17 <kmc> also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme
00:00:18 <Phantom_Hoover> I never understood that one.
00:00:37 <kmc> the one time independent Scotland tried to set up a colony, they picked one of the worst spots on Earth to try to colonize
00:01:14 <kmc> and it was such a ruinous disaster that they had to join the UK
00:01:24 <kmc> (well, a uk. I don't think it was called "the UK" until later.)
00:01:30 <elliott__> kmc: Well Scots are kind of incompetent.
00:01:33 <kmc> :3
00:01:43 <Phantom_Hoover> What spot?
00:01:47 <elliott__> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Nahl_1850%2C_Der_Isthmus_von_Panama_auf_der_H%C3%B6he_des_Chagres_River.jpg Scotland.
00:01:50 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott__, it was the plan all along.
00:01:53 <elliott__> Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isthmus_of_Panama, presumably.
00:02:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Now we get free prescriptions and university; WHO IS THE REAL LOSER?
00:02:19 <elliott__> Sweden?
00:02:33 <kmc> the Darien gap, a bit of swampland between Panama and Colombia
00:02:42 <kmc> the swamp is trying very hard to kill you
00:02:44 <elliott__> "Many held the English responsible while believing that they could and should assist in yet another effort at making the scheme work."
00:02:47 <elliott__> Oh sure, blame the English.
00:02:58 <copumpkin> I went to the edge of the Darien gap last summer
00:02:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Also "Although the scheme failed, it has been seen as marking the beginning of the country's transformation into a modern nation oriented toward business. Within a generation, Scotland had one of the most advanced commercial cultures in the world."
00:03:06 <kmc> it's the only gap in the Pan-American Highway, which otherwise runs from the tip of Argentina up to Alaska
00:03:19 <elliott__> What's up with New Caledonia. Can someone explain that to me?
00:03:20 <copumpkin> the panamanian authorities try very hard to discourage you from going down there
00:03:21 <kmc> also maybe Scotland will be independent again sometime soon
00:03:23 <copumpkin> but we persevered
00:03:30 <kmc> copumpkin: woah
00:03:35 <kmc> what did you think
00:03:46 <elliott__> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Sud_NC.JPG It is quite pretty, at least.
00:03:46 <copumpkin> well, we went to the end of the highway :)
00:03:51 <elliott__> But I don't know why it's called New Caledonia.
00:03:53 <copumpkin> it felt very isolated :)
00:03:56 <copumpkin> there's a little town at the end of it
00:03:57 <elliott__> What's new about it? What's Caledonia about it?
00:04:02 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott__, it was named by Captain Cook and the French got it later?
00:04:03 <copumpkin> I loved it down there
00:04:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Apparently everywhere looks like Scotland.
00:04:22 <copumpkin> we also found a local tribe and slept on a hammock in their village with no running water or electricity
00:04:30 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sud_NC.JPG
00:04:44 <copumpkin> there was this american dude who had decided to abandon his comfortable life, and drove a beat-up truck down to panama and was living with them in exchange for labor and use of his truck
00:04:48 <elliott__> Phantom_Hoover: He didn't even colonise the place and slaughter the locals and he gets to name it????
00:05:01 <elliott__> Phantom_Hoover: (<elliott__> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Sud_NC.JPG It is quite pretty, at least.)
00:05:11 <Phantom_Hoover> It doesn't matter how much you think this doesn't look like Scotland.
00:05:17 <copumpkin> panama is an awesome place to visit, I think
00:05:23 <Phantom_Hoover> You have underestimated how much it doesn't look like Scotland.
00:07:56 <elliott__> shachaf: Is there a point to that?
00:08:30 <shachaf> elliott__: I was just surprised.
00:11:24 <elliott__> Well, er, I was commenting on what was going on in #haskell minutes ago when you were in here?
00:11:28 <elliott__> And talking in #haskell also?
00:11:43 <shachaf> I thought you were logreading.
00:12:57 <elliott__> I joined so I could more accurately inform kmc about what makes #haskell bad.
00:17:41 <kmc> #haskell does not look like scotland
00:20:25 <kmc> everyone says how horrid slough is, but the bits i can see from this flat seem nicer than most US suburbs
00:21:23 <kmc> the roads are narrow, and there are lots of shops within walking distance, and 5 min walk away a train station with frequent service to the metropolis
00:21:40 <kmc> (langley (berks) station, not slough station)
00:22:14 <kmc> maybe it's comparable to the bits of Palo Alto near the train station
00:22:17 <elliott__> it was properly nastier in the Olden Days
00:22:26 <elliott__> and things like that persist
00:22:55 <kmc> yeah
00:23:23 <kmc> today i saw the statue of John Betjeman ("Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough! / It isn't fit for humans now") at St Pancras station
00:23:58 <kmc> we were at kings cross but st pancras is next door and the toilets there are free
00:24:01 <elliott__> kmc: Yet see: However, on the centenary of Betjeman's birth, his daughter apologised for the poem. Candida Lycett-Green said her father "regretted having ever written it". During her visit, Mrs Lycett-Green presented Mayor of Slough David MacIsaac with a book of her father's poems. In it was written: "We love Slough".[1]
00:24:09 <kmc> :)
00:24:10 <elliott__> "whoops"
00:24:36 <kmc> well it probably did suck in 1937
00:24:44 <kmc> "It was written in protest against 850 factories that were to be built"
00:25:00 <elliott__> In 2005, Ian McMillan published a poem titled Slough Re-visited using the same metre and rhyme-scheme as Betjeman's original, but celebrating Slough and rejecting mockery of the town as unfair.[2]
00:25:06 <kmc> also there were cows grazing right next to the sidewalk in cambridge
00:25:18 <kmc> in like a dense touristy part (next to the river)
00:25:18 <elliott__> ^ the least cool thing ever
00:25:27 <kmc> cows? or standing up for slough
00:26:06 <elliott__> well there is something profoundly ridiculous and snore-inducing about taking an anti-slough poem and using it to write Hey Maybe Slough Isn't All That Bad After All by ripping off its structure
00:26:30 <kmc> yeah
00:26:34 <elliott__> Let's All Just Get Along And Not Make Nasty Poems (structure taken from Fuck Everybody Everything Sucks)
00:26:40 <kmc> being nice isn't cool
00:26:45 <elliott__> yes!
00:26:47 <kmc> you know what's cool? being nice 1000 times
00:30:21 <elliott__> That's too many.
00:30:24 <elliott__> Who could be nice 1000 times?
00:31:45 <kmc> i ate two dozen jaffa cakes today
00:32:20 <elliott__> (a -> Term b) (Scope a -> Term (Scope b))... I had an elegant definition for this
00:32:22 <elliott__> kmc: That is a lot.
00:33:24 <kmc> it's 1000 kcal
00:34:17 <elliott__> kmc: I'm not sure recommended daily amount thingies work that way.
00:34:32 <kmc> ?
00:35:15 <elliott__> It was meant to be a bad joke.
00:35:19 <elliott__> But now it's an even worse joke, because it failed.
00:35:20 <elliott__> : ' (
00:35:25 <elliott__> I require a rainbow to feel better.
00:35:26 <elliott__> ^rainbow2
00:35:26 <fungot> ...too much output!
00:35:54 <kmc> :(
00:36:20 <kmc> also the UK thinks i should eat 25% more food than the USA
00:36:35 <kmc> i.e. one dozen jaffa cakes more
00:38:50 <elliott__> ask Phantom_Hoover about jaffa cakes
00:39:09 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: what about jaffa cakes?
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00:44:18 <elliott__> kmc: I feel thingied. Thingied. You know, the thing where you are proven right. That thing.
00:44:26 <elliott__> (Because I just read Slough Revisited and it's awful.)
00:44:31 <elliott__> (Also it was... made for Volvic???)
00:44:33 <kmc> vindicated!
00:45:16 <elliott__> Yes! That.
00:45:25 <elliott__> http://www.uktouring.org.uk/ian-mcmillan/index.html YOU TOO CAN ENJOY SLOUGH REVISITED
00:45:46 <kmc> don't wanna
00:47:23 <elliott__> Maybe I'll paste all of it in the channel so nobody is left out. :p
00:47:25 <elliott__> (I won't actually.)
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01:05:14 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, JAFFA CAKES ARE FUCKING AWFUL
01:05:31 <zzo38> Do you know if Csound or any expansion or UDO or whatever can support these kind of commands: "famicom_square" (2A03 square channel) "famicom_tri" (2A03 triangle channel) "famicom_noise" (2A03 noise channel) "famicom_dpcm" (2A03 DPCM channel) "famicom_2a03_multi" (2A03 triangle+noise+DPCM) "famicom_vrc6_square" (VRC6 square wave) "famicom_vrc6_saw" (VRC6 saw wave)
01:07:10 <zzo38> "famicom_vrc7" (VRC7/OPLL FM synthesis) "famicom_mmc5" (MMC5 square wave) "famicom_n106" (N106) "famicom_disksystem" (Famicom Disk System audio) "freqmod" (use input as modulator wave and table as carrier wave) "impulse_tracker" (emulate a channel of Impulse Tracker playback with sample, instrument, and effect) "framecount" (total frames since start of file)
01:07:21 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: blasphemy
01:08:46 <zzo38> "diskinmidi" (read MIDI events from file) "diskoutmidi" (write MIDI events to file) "dtmf" (make DTMF tones, blue box, red box, dial tone, busy signal, etc) "SoXsynth" (make synthesis like SoX "synth" effect) "dtmfin" (read DTMF/blue box/red box tone) "plot" (vector drawing) "pipeorgan" (pipe organ) "resonates" (string resonating from another string) "guqin" (Chinese guqin) "gameboy" (GameBoy audio)
01:08:47 <shachaf> kmc: Wait, you had a JaffaCake?
01:10:18 <zzo38> "c64sid" (Commodore 64 SID audio) "metronome" (metronome) "differentiate" (make derivative of audio respect to time) "integrate" (make antiderivative of audio respect to time) "tapehiss" (simulation of magnetic audio tape hissing noise) "drawbar" (Hammond drawbar organ) "ephemeris" (read NASA JPL ephemeris data)
01:10:59 <zzo38> "joystick" (read joystick axis) "amiga" (Amiga .MOD channel) "rotaryspeaker" (rotary speakers)
01:12:13 <zzo38> Do you know of anything like that?
01:14:00 <zzo38> Also add a score command to adjust the control rate.
01:20:25 <zzo38> Do you use Csound?
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01:52:20 <kallisti> `fetch ' rm -rf /; '
01:52:23 <HackEgo> wget: unable to resolve host address `\' rm -rf '
01:52:37 <kallisti> `paste ' rm -rf /; '
01:52:41 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.13438 \ cat: ' rm -rf /; ': No such file or directory
01:52:55 <shachaf> kallisti: You can just `run rm -rf /, you know.
01:53:06 <kallisti> shachaf: I'm well aware
01:53:09 <kallisti> but that would do something else.
01:53:14 <kallisti> fetch and paste are not in the sandbox
01:57:43 <shachaf> Oh.
01:57:54 <shachaf> `run type fetch
01:57:56 <HackEgo> bash: line 0: type: fetch: not found
01:58:04 <shachaf> Magic.
02:01:49 <kallisti> networking in general isn't allowed
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03:35:35 <elliott__> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11597246/which-keyboard-keyboard-layout-will-be-most-suitable-for-haskell-programming
03:45:49 <kallisti> elliott__: the answerer completely missed the mistae.
03:45:51 <kallisti> +k
03:46:04 <kallisti> but I'm too lazy to SO
03:46:31 <elliott__> Don't worry, I'm busy talking past them in #haskell.
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04:46:02 <zzo38> Have you read the background story I wrote for my Dungeons&Dragons characters? I have asked the other players to do so but they have not yet done so.
04:57:25 <zzo38> Have you ever written any character background story?
04:59:46 <zzo38> (Kjugobe has lost five perica at a Double Fanucci game against a red half dragon once, and that is the only time Kjugobe has ever played any cards at all.)
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05:51:39 <Vorpal> hm
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05:56:01 <zzo38> Do you like this?
06:01:50 <Vorpal> like what?
06:07:26 <zzo38> Did you read the text above?
06:38:24 <Sgeo_> " If you're familiar with using HTML tables to do layout, you'll feel right at home here."
06:41:39 <zzo38> Do you see message about Dungeons&Dragons related?
06:41:54 <zzo38> Sgeo_: What is that quotation refering to?
06:42:14 <Sgeo_> http://www.tkdocs.com/tutorial/grid.html
06:42:19 <zzo38> OK
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07:22:32 <oerjan> bah stupid dns errors keep returning
07:22:42 <oerjan> i'll try a reboot
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07:30:56 <Vorpal> Hm I have 797 sysctls under net.* and 233 under everything else.
07:31:02 <Vorpal> a major imbalance in the sysctls
07:31:22 <oerjan> well that reboot (of both the laptop and the router) seemed to help
07:31:46 <Vorpal> oerjan, but you didn't identify the underlying cause!?
07:32:35 <oerjan> Vorpal: well my laptop had been unrebooted for a while (just hibernated), sometimes it gets weird. and i already tried just the router before once.
07:32:37 <Vorpal> on my phone the ratio is even more absurd: 921 vs. 123
07:33:09 <Vorpal> oh right, there are per-interface sysctls
07:33:40 <oerjan> i assume it can get memory errors or something like that.
07:34:19 * oerjan retains his right to consider computer hardware magic
07:34:52 <Vorpal> you should run memtest then
07:34:55 <Vorpal> oerjan, do you remember the PCRE syntax for negative lookaheads?
07:35:10 <oerjan> no, but man perlre
07:35:23 <ion> (?!foo)
07:35:33 <oerjan> damn
07:35:37 <Vorpal> ion, thanks
07:35:54 <oerjan> gah it isn't fixed anyhow, it happened with a website again
07:36:05 <Vorpal> dammit, why isn't it workin
07:36:27 <Vorpal> oh right
07:37:57 <oerjan> it's like every website times out on first try, then works fine. happened to putty as well. (although adobe ran an update fine.)
07:38:13 <Vorpal> right 250 net.* sysctls if I drop all the interface specific ones (and just include the "all" variant for those)
07:38:19 <Vorpal> still more than non-network related ones
07:38:37 <ion> oerjan: What was the result of memtest86+?
07:38:45 <Vorpal> pcregrep -v '^net\.ipv[46]\.(neigh|conf)\.(?!all)'
07:39:26 <oerjan> i don't think it's memory any more
07:39:35 <oerjan> also, is that a windows program? >:)
07:39:44 <Vorpal> oerjan, it is not a linux one, nor a windows one
07:39:44 <ion> Because memtest86+ didn’t find memory errors?
07:39:55 <Vorpal> oerjan, you basically boot into memtest86+
07:40:03 <Vorpal> oerjan, you put it on an USB disk or CD or whatever
07:40:09 <Vorpal> it doesn't run under any OS
07:40:20 <ion> There is little reason to “think” that it is a RAM problem or that it is not. Just run the damn test. ;-)
07:40:53 <oerjan> ...booting from a disk? i have _never_ done that on this computer.
07:40:53 <Vorpal> memtest86+ is the first thing you run on a new computer. After that you run full SATA tests from a boot CD
07:41:03 <Vorpal> oerjan, USB stick
07:41:05 <Vorpal> whatever
07:41:18 <Vorpal> probably fits on a floppy too
07:41:21 <Vorpal> if you want that
07:41:22 <ion> You probably can netboot memtest as well.
07:41:23 <Vorpal> oerjan, I put it in my GRUB menu
07:41:29 <oerjan> i have never _used_ an usb stick although i have one in the original wrapping :P
07:41:45 <Vorpal> ion, oh come on, setting up a netboot server under windows (which oerjan uses) would be painful
07:41:47 <oerjan> this thing has no floppy disk
07:41:48 <Vorpal> is it even possible
07:41:54 <Vorpal> oerjan, magnetic drum!
07:42:30 <oerjan> also why the heck would a memory problem affect my connection _now_, after a full reboot.
07:42:54 <Vorpal> oerjan, well your memory may be failing
07:43:02 <Vorpal> any other issues?
07:43:56 <Sgeo_> If I'm going to be trying to make GUIs, might as well read various User Interface guidelines
07:44:20 <Sgeo_> Starting with Windows because I'm on Windows right now
07:44:58 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, those are basically "this goes into this menu, and cancel is on the right/left of OK"
07:45:30 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, what are you making a GUI for
07:45:37 <Sgeo_> Although I remember that the guy behind Bonobo Conspiracy disagreed with something
07:45:42 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, right now, I just want to learn
07:45:53 <Sgeo_> Although I do plan on making an IRC bot fairly soon
07:46:05 <Vorpal> "Bonobo Conspiracy"?
07:46:06 <Vorpal> wtf is that
07:47:00 <Sgeo_> A webcomic
07:47:04 <Sgeo_> Doesn't run anymore
07:47:16 <Sgeo_> http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/181
07:47:18 <ion> vorpal: The bonobo conspiracy: monkeys demolished building seven.
07:47:59 <Vorpal> anyway the stuff about what goes into what menu is kind of useless. On windows, the settings option in firefox is in a different menu than in linux. Yet another menu on OS X iirc
07:48:29 <Vorpal> but you basically have to know the guideline for the OS to find it on first try anyway. And far from all programs follow them.
07:49:11 <Vorpal> so essentially, stuff like "settings is under edit/tools/<program name>-menu" is useless
07:49:53 <Vorpal> only truly shared conventions are useful ones
07:50:30 <Vorpal> since it is worse for stuff to move around when you use the same program on multiple platforms than it is to not follow the platform ordering of the menus
07:51:09 <oerjan> no, i don't think it is my computer, since the websites which loaded just _before_ i rebooted still load afterward. as does this national newspaper site which i haven't visited since yesterday.
07:51:30 <Vorpal> oerjan, try another computer on the same network?
07:51:32 <oerjan> i strongly suspect some dns server
07:51:45 <oerjan> Vorpal: i don't have any.
07:51:51 <Vorpal> oerjan, okay try using google's DNS server then in your network settings
07:51:53 <Vorpal>
07:52:02 <oerjan> oh hm maybe i should do that
07:52:10 <Vorpal> oerjan, I don't remember what their secondary one is
07:53:12 <Vorpal> oerjan, ah,, 2001:4860:4860::8888 and 2001:4860:4860::8844
08:01:18 <oerjan> ok i managed to change that, let's see if that helps
08:01:45 <Sgeo_> I find it remarkably easy to write one very trivial script in Tcl, and suddenly I like it?
08:08:35 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, what is the question here?
08:09:11 <Sgeo_> My surprise at liking a language less for theoretical reasons and more for how easy it was to get started using it for something interesting.
08:09:33 <Sgeo_> Although making a web page based on the contents of a directory hardly counts as interesting probabl
08:09:35 <Sgeo_> y
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08:30:02 <Taneb> Hello
08:30:11 <oerjan> hi
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08:37:50 <Sgeo_> def a = 6
08:37:50 <Sgeo_> def b = 7
08:37:51 <Sgeo_> def mul {a b} = {expr {$a * $b}}
08:43:31 <Sgeo_> I wonder if I should be creeped out by Tk's reliance on global variables
08:45:18 <Sgeo_> "Don't give your wish scripts the same name as any of the widgets provided by Tk. It will cause problems with wish trying to apply options for those widgets to your program as a whole. Try the file name example.tcl."
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08:55:33 <nautilux> hi
09:00:09 <oerjan> `welcome nautilux
09:00:18 <HackEgo> nautilux: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
09:07:55 <oerjan> so i see an apparently persistent, long-time wikipedia anonymous ip vandal that no one seems to have noticed -- and decide it's simply too much work to do anything about it.
09:08:15 -!- nautilux has left ("Saliendo").
09:09:23 <Sgeo_> oerjan, o.O?
09:09:34 <Sgeo_> Linky?
09:09:38 <oerjan> (the scoundrel "adjusts" population data in several louisiana pages.)
09:10:06 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/
09:10:26 <Sgeo_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism
09:10:47 <oerjan> yes, but i'm supposed to give warnings first. what the heck is the point?
09:12:08 <oerjan> also a lot of those edits are long since buried by other edits.
09:13:06 <Sgeo_> I kind of want to just link into #wikipedia
09:13:57 <Sgeo_> oerjan, this is what I'm going to say, is this ok?:
09:13:59 <Sgeo_> Someone I know in another channel noticed this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/
09:14:11 <oerjan> thanks :)
09:16:02 <Sgeo_> The Bossier City, Louisiana adjustments equal out to apparently just experimenting
09:16:09 <Sgeo_> Didn't look at the others
09:17:17 <oerjan> um no they don't.
09:17:50 <oerjan> or wait, missed one
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09:17:54 <Sgeo_> Only looked at the first and last Bossier City edits, I do see that other pages changes are more permanent
09:18:24 <oerjan> yep
09:18:50 <oerjan> lots of changing numbers, that are hard to detect if you don't look at history.
09:19:48 <oerjan> for the one in the main Lousiana page i checked the references, since they were conveniently linked, and they are clearly wrong edits
09:19:56 <oerjan> *+i
09:27:43 <Sgeo_> Woah I actually remember my PURL password
09:30:26 <Sgeo_> Grah, where can I see a list of PURLs I created?
09:32:28 <Sgeo_> Found it, just needed to search
09:32:32 <Sgeo_> I used bravehost once?
09:57:45 <Sgeo_> Python really screwed me up
09:58:10 <Sgeo_> The whole yield must be in the text of the function and not just a function that it calls thing
09:58:31 <Sgeo_> Seeing Ruby's Fibers seemed cool. Then zzo38's thing for Haskell. Then Tcl.
09:58:39 <Sgeo_> Python's the crappy exception here, not the rule.
09:58:55 <Sgeo_> Python and C# (although I don't know much about the async stuff in .NET 4.0)
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10:16:02 <Sgeo_> `welcome sirdancealot7
10:16:06 <HackEgo> sirdancealot7: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
10:16:12 <sirdancealot7> ohai
10:21:08 <oerjan> > 14*15 `div` 2
10:21:09 <lambdabot> 105
10:27:00 <fizzie> I think I'd find it amusing if that parsed as
10:27:01 <fizzie> > 14*(15 `div` 2)
10:27:03 <fizzie> instead.
10:27:03 <lambdabot> 98
10:27:21 <fizzie> "More gotchas" is my motto.
10:29:23 <fizzie> > let add = (+); mul = (*) in [3 + 5 * 2, 3 `add` 5 `mul` 2]
10:29:24 <lambdabot> [13,16]
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10:41:02 <oerjan> fizzie: `mod` and `div` have sensible fixities assigned in haskell. (same as multiplication/division.)
10:41:49 <oerjan> although it _would_ have parsed as you said if they'd had the default ones.
10:47:10 <ion> > let add = (+); mul = (*); infixl 6 `add`; infixl 7 `mul` in [3 + 5 * 2, 3 `add` 5 `mul` 2]
10:47:11 <lambdabot> [13,13]
10:47:47 <oerjan> > (0$0+)
10:47:49 <lambdabot> The operator `GHC.Num.+' [infixl 6] of a section
10:47:49 <lambdabot> must have lower prece...
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14:13:57 <mroman> I always read compuking .
14:15:03 <olsner> I think he's also known as king of pumpkins or something like that
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14:40:28 <mroman> pumpking?
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15:37:02 <elliott> Unable to understand coding logic / principle / convention - why 'Show a' is needed? Why 'Show Car“ or ”Show String" is not working?
15:45:18 <olsner> are you on stackoverflow again?
15:46:20 <elliott> how could i resist checking for gems like that
15:47:03 <olsner> how could you not?
15:47:22 <olsner> apparently I recently got +100 reputation as an "Association Bonus"
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15:58:41 <olsner> after reading http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11601729 I've decided that "Duporabnikakijeobiskopravil" should replace foo as a metasyntactic variable
15:59:30 <elliott> :D
16:00:50 <soundnfury> My eyes, my eyes
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16:03:18 <mroman> I sure hope haskells value unboxing/boxing is pretty fast.
16:04:26 <olsner> unboxing might not finish at all due to the halting problem and all that
16:04:57 <Gregor> People who use $ in JS variable names are the worst kind of people.
16:05:18 * variable looks at Gregor
16:05:40 <mroman> http://hpaste.org/71949
16:06:26 <mroman> Gregor: I use $_$ !
16:07:46 <mroman> http://fmnssun.ibone.ch/cgi/jlude/mirr/JLude/doc/HTML/files/prelude-js.html#$_$
16:07:50 <mroman> like that.
16:07:54 <mroman> very helpful helper function
16:08:43 * soundnfury hates JQuery's way of doing everything through $()
16:08:50 <soundnfury> then again, all JS is ugly
16:09:07 <soundnfury> but some .Equals() are more equal than others
16:09:16 <Gregor> mroman: lul
16:09:33 <mroman> $_$(reverse,flip(ladd,"foo"))("hallo")
16:09:34 <mroman> and such.
16:10:40 <mroman> I was bored during bookkeeping lectures so I started hacking together haskells prelude in Javascript :)
16:10:51 <mroman> It's not a neat trick, but it works.
16:11:21 <olsner> soundnfury: I think you can choose your own name for the jQuery function if you want to
16:12:07 <mroman> and it map's nicely to haskell most of the time.
16:12:55 <mroman> like map (head&&&length) . group -> $c(map(pairWith(head,length)),group)
16:13:26 <mroman> -'
16:13:47 <soundnfury> what's &&&?
16:14:07 <olsner> with some hacking I think you could write that as map(head,"&&&",length).group
16:14:11 <soundnfury> to me that takes the logical and of head with the address of length, but I'm guessing it doesn't do that in JS
16:14:37 <mroman> &&& is Arrow magic :)
16:14:38 <zzo38> In Haskell's Control.Arrow the &&& operation means to do both operation and the pair of the result
16:14:47 <mroman> but essentially it takes two functions
16:14:53 <elliott> (&&&) :: (a -> b) -> (a -> c) -> a -> (b,c)
16:14:59 <mroman> and applies them to the same value collecting the result in a pair
16:15:04 <elliott> (Technically any arrow (~>) instead of (->), but that's irrelevant.)
16:15:24 <mroman> *Main Control.Arrow Data.List> (+5) &&& (+3) $ 2
16:15:24 <mroman> (7,5)
16:15:29 <mroman> ^- like that.
16:16:04 <mroman> http://fmnssun.ibone.ch/cgi/jlude/mirr/JLude/doc/HTML/files/prelude-js.html#pairWith
16:16:31 * soundnfury runs away screaming and eats chocolate
16:17:15 <mroman> olsner: Probably @some hacking
16:17:18 <mroman> But I stopped working on that
16:17:28 <mroman> bookkeeping lectures are over so... :D
16:17:48 <mroman> And I barely passed the bookkeeping final exam so...
16:17:49 <soundnfury> so &&& is Lxyz.(xz,yz)?
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16:18:06 <mroman> yeah.
16:18:07 <soundnfury> Don't end sentences with so...
16:18:16 <mroman> if your lambda calculus supports pairs like that ;)
16:19:14 <soundnfury> mroman: well there's a reasonable way of defining the PAIR function that then allows you to write &&& := Lxyz.(PAIRxz)yz
16:19:15 <soundnfury> iirc
16:19:24 <mroman> \xyz.((\x.y\n.nxy)(xz)yz) probably.
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16:19:41 <mroman> *\xy.
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16:20:34 <soundnfury> Sorry, I can't work out where that emendation applies to
16:20:51 <mroman> PAIR is \xy.\n.nxy
16:21:23 <soundnfury> why not \xyn.nxy?
16:21:43 <mroman> Because they are the same.
16:21:51 <soundnfury> yes, I thought they were
16:21:52 <mroman> but I like to distinguish the inner function.
16:21:59 <soundnfury> ok then
16:22:19 <mroman> It's less confusing to some people.
16:22:26 <soundnfury> also I'd rather you didn't use \ for lambda, I read it as escape. Particularly lambda n
16:22:42 <mroman> \ is the usual ascii symbol for lambda?
16:22:42 <oonbotti> ERROR:Word not found
16:22:48 <nortti> :P
16:22:51 <mroman> \ hallo
16:22:51 <oonbotti> ERROR:Word not found
16:22:53 <mroman> \ why
16:22:53 <oonbotti> ERROR:Word not found
16:22:55 <soundnfury> I wondered at first why your PAIR function had a newline in
16:22:56 <mroman> \why
16:23:36 <mroman> What the hell is oonbotti?
16:23:43 <nortti> mroman: it is my7 bot
16:23:45 <nortti> -7
16:23:50 <mroman> And he does?
16:23:58 <zzo38> What is a Mugabe Relativity Rating?
16:24:15 <mroman> Isn't that the name of a dictator?
16:24:19 <mroman> or ex-dictator somewhere?
16:24:38 <mroman> Hm.
16:24:47 <nortti> mroman: iterpret forth with prefix \, talk to you with prefix oonbotti: and other things with prefix #help
16:24:55 <mroman> #help
16:24:56 <oonbotti> #echo, #welcome, #cat, #ls, #rm, #writefile, #cc, #exec, #msg, #readmsg, #forth, #loadforth, #eliza
16:25:15 <nortti> oonbotti means "I'm a bot"
16:25:16 <oonbotti> nortti: Can you elaborate on that?
16:25:21 <mroman> #eliza I saw a ghost last night!
16:25:21 <oonbotti> Can you elaborate on that?
16:25:34 <mroman> #eliza He was green.
16:25:34 <oonbotti> Very interesting.
16:25:40 <mroman> #eliza Can you help me?
16:25:41 <oonbotti> If I could help you, then what?
16:25:50 <mroman> #eliza Then I'm healed!
16:25:50 <oonbotti> Let's change focus a bit... Tell me about your family.
16:26:07 <mroman> #eliza I have three wifes, two kids
16:26:07 <oonbotti> Have you really three wifes, two kids?
16:26:09 <olsner> fungot: foo
16:26:10 <fungot> olsner: over the undertow! under the overpass! around the future and not just fnord for example. it's just the syntax
16:26:18 <olsner> #eliza over the undertow! under the overpass! around the future and not just fnord for example. it's just the syntax
16:26:18 <oonbotti> Please tell me more.
16:26:18 <mroman> #eliza Yes, I have
16:26:19 <oonbotti> You seem quite sure.
16:26:37 <mroman> #eliza Where's your drunk sister?
16:26:37 <oonbotti> Please consider whether you can answer your own question.
16:27:15 <mroman> #eliza Why are you not drunk?!
16:27:15 <oonbotti> Why don't you tell me the reason why am me not drunk?!?
16:27:32 <mroman> o_O
16:27:49 <mroman> Grammar!
16:28:19 <mroman> #eliza しずか!
16:28:19 <oonbotti> Very interesting.
16:28:50 <elliott> `addquote <fungot> olsner: over the undertow! under the overpass! around the future and not just fnord for example. it's just the syntax
16:28:51 <fungot> elliott: so could do something like this
16:28:53 <HackEgo> 853) <fungot> olsner: over the undertow! under the overpass! around the future and not just fnord for example. it's just the syntax
16:28:53 <elliott> It's a poem.
16:29:09 <elliott> ^style
16:29:09 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
16:30:16 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
16:30:21 <mroman> ^style speeches
16:30:21 <fungot> Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg)
16:30:35 <mroman> fungot: We must fight with pride, mustn't we?
16:30:39 <fungot> mroman: establishments, ancient, on the conduct and duty of. fnord on the coast of guinea. a gang of " fnord de fnord, was barren, and the success complete. a second edition with fnord and kent with 282, exhibit a far greater alacrity and satisfaction in tracing resemblances than in searching for differences: because by making resemblances we produce new fnord we unite, we create, we enlarge our fnord but i cannot just now be a
16:30:53 -!- Gregor has set topic: Fnord on the coast of Guinea | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
16:30:55 <fungot> mar@suibone.ch: now then, it be a sin which he never thought any of these things that it was my duty to obey your summons, though i have to be put to the utmost. since that declaration was made four years have fnord and ingeniously compared anarchy and fnord but that which they regard as containing the best system is that in which he sails may be endangered by fnord it with his spoon. it is notorious that the g
16:31:14 <olsner> fnord it with his spoon!
16:31:26 <soundnfury> he seems fnord heavy today
16:31:31 -!- Gregor has set topic: Fnord on the coast of Guinea | FNORD IT WITH! HIS! SPOON! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
16:31:31 <mroman> he seems broken
16:31:42 <soundnfury> did someone accidentally set fnord-density too high in his config?
16:31:44 <mroman> m���a���r�����@����su��ibone.ch: o_O ?
16:31:49 -!- elliott has set topic: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
16:31:53 <Gregor> :(
16:32:15 <mroman> fungot: Who let the dogs out?
16:32:17 <fungot> mroman: again, if this strange and fearful infatuation be indeed upon them, just as he would weigh the words of bacon will seem to us to have fallen among the fnord a foreign dominion by means of a wise and good men long deceased, whose munificent endowments have been monstrously perverted from their purposes. it is being executed in violence. i say that the incapacity is fnord vi fnord and inclusively comprehended in the expul
16:32:34 <soundnfury> fnord vi fnord, the editor on the coast of Guinea
16:33:02 <mroman> fungot: What's fnord?
16:33:04 <fungot> mroman: it is the first and last time. he has held us spellbound upon the plain at the foot of ben lomond and at the dinner of the society as unjust. he who is a naturalist, and has during some time been, in a question of which the judge complains, and from the left, he must have meant this--that the monarchy and the loyalty of that service to his majesty's service: it is now for them to consider all piety as grimace. the times
16:33:06 <mroman> Some sort of fjord?
16:33:38 <mroman> Ah
16:33:42 <mroman> Robert Wilson, IC.
16:34:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow, that was beautiful.
16:34:54 <soundnfury> I'm afnord you leave me with no choice.
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16:35:21 <soundnfury> It's alive! Bwa ha ha!
16:35:43 <soundnfury> $Good afternoon
16:35:47 <Virgil> soundnfury: Were correct goodnight whenever person friends between guard usually wealth close
16:36:00 <soundnfury> that almost makes sense :(
16:37:21 <monqy> is virgil broken
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16:38:09 <soundnfury> Broken as designed.
16:38:36 <soundnfury> Well, it was originally designed to talk intelligently, but it didn't take long for me to realign my goals
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16:45:58 <zzo38> They say the Gregorian calendar has no sync with the moon and does not accurately track the equinoxes and solstices. But, we can use the horoscope for that, isn't it?
16:59:19 <itidus21> zzo38: i believe in premonition.
17:00:14 <itidus21> often the way a premonition works i find is that some thought occurs, say in a daydream, and we take the time to think what does this thing, this symbol we have been thinking about mean?
17:01:36 <itidus21> or it could be that some coincedences are so appealing that i abandon reason
17:03:23 <zzo38> itidus21: I suppose that yes when some tought occurs you later associated it with something else in future, whether or not it actually is.
17:03:56 <zzo38> But sometimes it might be because you don't know what it is before, such as a dream it can be confusing so later on you think of the thought making it more coherent
17:06:16 <itidus21> is determining if there is life outside of earth NP-hard?
17:07:29 <itidus21> i say that because, a lot of the kind of speculation about aliens also shares common ground with speculation about premonition etc
17:08:02 <zzo38> I don't know if it is the kind of problem which you can call "NP-hard" and stuff like that.
17:09:07 <itidus21> hum
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17:24:01 <Phantom_Hoover> this is perhaps the most ??? thing iti has said
17:24:43 <itidus21> `quote horoscope
17:24:46 <HackEgo> 837) <zzo38> (Some astrologers say all horoscopes that include objects other than the Sun are 3D, but they don't know what 3D means, that is why they are astrologers.)
17:24:59 <itidus21> nice
17:25:17 <itidus21> i remember when that happened
17:25:58 <Gregor> I ♥ that quote.
17:26:50 <itidus21> Phantom_Hoover: my point of view is that the topic of horoscopes invites the strange and extraordinary
17:27:58 <zzo38> itidus21: Perhaps it does. Perhaps this channel as a whole is strange, regardless of the topic of discussion. That is why the topic message change a lot.
17:29:02 <itidus21> the word extraordinary was a sort of joke i have about this tv show here
17:29:22 <itidus21> this 17second youtube gives context http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUuWnS8sBow
17:31:03 <fizzie> Oh no, it's that thing that I always misread as "Vorpal".
17:33:43 <fizzie> fungot: Imitate Virgil, please.
17:33:44 <fungot> fizzie: euripides, mother of. his jesuitical morality. how regarded by historians of the plutarch class. peculiar and essentially english character of english liberty. political, views with which it is a weed that grows in every soil. they are zealous against this bill.
17:33:53 <fizzie> That was a good imitation.
17:34:13 <itidus21> fungot is out of his vulcan mind
17:34:15 <fungot> itidus21: pilgrimages advantageous to the cause of compulsory freedom, civil and religious and commercial freedom. every factory that hums with marvelous machinery, every railway and steamer, every telegraph and telephone, the changed systems of agriculture, which however is itself but part of a conservative government, this plan which would fnord all the parts of the earth; and in some of the worst evils of every other tribuna
17:34:23 <fizzie> ^style
17:34:29 <fizzie> ...
17:34:34 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
17:34:40 <fizzie> ^style
17:34:41 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches* ss wp youtube
17:34:44 <fizzie> Oh.
17:34:50 <itidus21> <fungot> i no longer report my style
17:34:51 <fungot> itidus21: some account of the battle in a moment the dreadful tampering with the body of the people is a great satisfaction to me that maybe it was in that place he would not have come forward to demand approbation for a life black with every sort of generous and honest feeling that belongs to him, however, to belong indisputably to the royal parc-aux-cerfs, and turned people who might have been almost exclusively confined to o
17:34:57 <zzo38> Now I added a track questioning command to PPMCK, so that it can be used with preprocessor macros and so on, you can play chord like that: http://sprunge.us/ZgFN
17:35:05 <itidus21> nah.. i know it never did
17:35:12 <fizzie> Well, it's an eclectic set.
17:35:33 <fizzie> It had that bug where it sees one message as a garbled version of a previous message, that ate the ^style.
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17:45:38 <elliott> hi ais523
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17:50:38 <soundnfury> but it does report its style. There's an asterisk on speeches, which is indeed its current style
17:51:17 <elliott> fizzie: There was another thing.
17:51:20 <elliott> <fungot> mŠ¥Œa€™žr•“©”@Ž§ªŸsu¬¨ibone.ch: now then, it be a sin which he never thought any of these things that it was my duty to obey your summons, though i have to be put to the utmost. since that declaration was made four years have fnord and ingeniously compared anarchy and fnord but that which they regard as containing the best system is that in which he sails may be endangered by fnord it with his spoon. it is notoriou
17:51:20 <elliott> s that the g
17:51:21 <fungot> elliott: the desultory and faint persecution carried on against the will of god; but still there are cases in which england feels more than several others ( though they all feel) the perplexity of their pursuits. what now? by bacchus, old man, i must confess that, in france.
17:52:00 <itidus21> ah ok
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17:54:43 <fizzie> It keeps happening. :/
17:55:05 <soundnfury> looks like a stale pointer read to me
17:55:10 <soundnfury> run it in valgrind
17:55:25 <elliott> yes, debug a befunge 98 program in valgrind
17:55:28 <elliott> what could possibly go wrong
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17:56:08 <fizzie> soundnfury: I did some testing that did lead me to think it's a bug in the Funge-98 code, and not in the interpreter, though I forget exactly what that was.
17:56:12 <fizzie> ^source
17:56:12 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
17:56:22 <olsner> just invent fungegrind, run fungot through it
17:56:23 <fungot> olsner: i was reminded of jack because i came across mr. and mrs. a. building. mr. choate's head is full of ecclesiastical establishments: but such a method, instead of shutting himself up with a book, he tells us fnord at the gate of the tower hamlets to the city of new york; let the great council of four persons, of those persons who were acceptable to the people_, _or while factions predominated in the constituent assembly o
17:56:24 <fizzie> If something obviously wrong jumps at you, let me know.
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17:58:17 <soundnfury> fizzie: I can only see one thing that's obviously wrong
17:58:23 <soundnfury> IT'S WRITTEN IN SODDING FUNGE
17:58:25 <soundnfury> ;)
17:58:39 <soundnfury> also: my eyes, my eyes it burns, etc.
17:58:45 <fizzie> funge bot is written in Funge? Oh no!
17:59:19 <fizzie> When I get sufficiently motivated, I'll construct a way to reproduce it, that should make tracking down the cause easier.
17:59:52 <soundnfury> your funges are going to start reproducing? Too much information
18:00:21 <elliott> fizzie: You should try it with CCBI2 or something.
18:05:38 <fizzie> I should, but it only bugs so rarely. I'll probably need an interpreter where I can set the seed of ? so that I can deterministically bug it, in order to actually catch it.
18:05:44 <fizzie> Well, "rarely".
18:17:09 <itidus21> oh no i gotta brb.. thankfully i couldn't care less since the log will tell me if i miss anything. so stuff ya
18:17:20 -!- itidus21 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:17:46 <elliott> rude itidus
18:17:48 <elliott> RUDE!!!!!
18:17:50 <elliott> we don't like you any more
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18:33:37 <Taneb> Hello
18:34:06 <olsner> oh, nice *assembly* question: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11070680/how-can-i-remove-some-opcodes-from-java-class-file
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18:34:39 <Taneb> olsner, answer it using only assembly
18:36:16 <olsner> like, build an assembly-language binary grep that removes all goto and throw bytecodes? I guess that can be done
18:36:20 <olsner> tr -d is probably quicker though
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18:37:24 <Taneb> Tell him how to build an assembly-language binary grep that removes all goto and throw bytecodes
18:38:36 <olsner> it probably won't help, this smells of an X/Y problem
18:39:33 <olsner> for starters, how is that transformation useful for "decompiling programmatically"? and who builds decompilers anyway?
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18:40:26 <itidus21> i wonder what he means by "using ASM"
18:41:01 <olsner> ASM is a library for modifying java bytecode
18:41:20 <itidus21> oh.. thats really .. .... a great idea
18:41:36 <olsner> so that's a fairly common way for java questions to end up tagged "assembly"
18:41:48 <itidus21> yeah, i love when that happens
18:42:14 <mroman> Only happens on stackoverflow.
18:42:27 <itidus21> well
18:42:48 <itidus21> the person who named the ASM library should be shot so to speak
18:43:04 <mroman> What he's actually asking
18:43:22 <mroman> "There's a java program and I want to crack it. How can I do that using ASM?"
18:44:26 <mroman> itidus21: He should have named it like everybody else does
18:44:31 <mroman> JAsm!
18:44:54 <mroman> The J at the beginning tells you it's cool.
18:45:13 <itidus21> thats really sad...
18:46:13 <mroman> Which lead to the conspiracy that the actual name of Java is not Java, but ava.
18:46:29 <itidus21> i mean the guys question not the jasm thing
18:46:44 <itidus21> but
18:46:46 <itidus21> yeah
18:46:52 <itidus21> i see what you're saying
18:47:07 <itidus21> j is a prefix
18:47:24 <itidus21> j-oak
18:48:10 <itidus21> ames gosling
18:50:06 <itidus21> Hello, I am Ames Gosling and I would like to talk to you about the Ava Programming Language. With me today is special guest Peter Molydeux.
18:50:24 <soundnfury> Ava Programming Language... APL???
18:50:42 <soundnfury> Or is Ava a new version of Ada?
18:50:55 <soundnfury> Either way, fleeing in terror might be an appropriate response
18:50:59 <itidus21> ava.tar.gz
18:51:02 <elliott> hi
18:52:06 <Taneb> hi
18:53:28 <mroman> soundnfury: No.
18:53:38 <soundnfury> No?
18:53:39 <soundnfury> Aww
18:53:40 <mroman> It's a very common programming language without the common prefix.
18:54:08 <mroman> But APL sounds good ;)
18:54:38 <mroman> J is actually based on Ava Programming Language (APL)
18:54:43 <mroman> so that works out very well.
18:55:26 <mroman> Who's Ames Gosling?
18:55:50 <mroman> oh.
18:55:52 <mroman> I SEE.
18:56:15 <mroman> Ames Gosling is the father of Ava Programming Language.
18:56:20 <itidus21> yeah..
18:56:25 <itidus21> `log
18:56:27 <itidus21> `log
18:56:27 <itidus21> `log
18:56:28 <itidus21> `log
18:56:33 <HackEgo> 2010-12-19.txt:23:56:58: -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:56:33 <HackEgo> 2009-03-12.txt:22:57:45: <orelo> Well, it's clear in some places that one pair of opposite squares is brighter than the other.
18:56:47 <HackEgo> 2008-09-11.txt:15:38:44: <AnMaster> hm
18:56:47 <HackEgo> 2010-07-26.txt:09:01:23: -!- Madk has joined #esoteric.
18:57:10 <mroman> And his partner William Nelson Oy
18:57:29 <itidus21> `log
18:57:30 <itidus21> `log
18:57:30 <itidus21> `log
18:57:30 <itidus21> `log
18:57:39 <HackEgo> 2006-09-17.txt:20:28:21: <CakeProphet> But you didn't
18:57:51 <HackEgo> 2003-03-31.txt:07:13:14: -!- iamcal has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:57:54 <HackEgo> 2006-07-03.txt:19:30:14: <SimonRC> ah, ok
18:57:54 <HackEgo> 2007-10-08.txt:19:24:42: <ehird`> bsmntbombdood: brought to you by the same kooks that brought you homeopathy: well, no, it was the Chinese. But still.
18:58:07 <mroman> `quote
18:58:09 <mroman> `quote
18:58:10 <HackEgo> 788) <elliott> a billion popups are worse than one distended anus.
18:58:21 <HackEgo> 497) <zzo38> Pythagoras was running away and he reached a field of beans, but he didn't want to step on them so he let those guys chasing him to kill him instead.
18:58:22 <elliott> hi
18:58:24 <elliott> `delquote 788
18:58:28 <mroman> :D
18:58:29 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <elliott> a billion popups are worse than one distended anus.
18:58:48 <olsner> elliott: is this @? http://singularity.codeplex.com/
18:59:22 <elliott> no
18:59:24 <elliott> I know of Singularity, though
19:00:03 <soundnfury> Pythagoras didn't actually exist probably
19:00:27 <itidus21> that sounds very jain of him
19:01:10 <soundnfury> also the Pythagorean Brotherhood was an orphic cult that had essentially no effect on Greek mathematics whatever
19:01:26 <soundnfury> all that stuff about irrational numbers and the drowning of Hippasus is complete fiction
19:04:47 <Taneb> extract is kinda like copure
19:04:56 <Phantom_Hoover> soundnfury, source?
19:05:11 <Taneb> By "kinda like", I mean "probably is, but I don't want to embarrass myself if I'm wrong"
19:06:17 <Phantom_Hoover> WP's sources give a concrete enough basis to conclude that Pythagoras at least lines up with a real person.
19:06:22 <elliott> Taneb: It is the analogy of return for Comonad, yes.
19:06:22 <Taneb> edwardk, documentation for comonad is broken
19:06:35 <Taneb> "Finally, if you choose to define (\<\@) and ('>)"
19:08:12 <edwardk> taneb: ah
19:08:18 <Taneb> Pythagoras is about as real as the least real of me and elliott
19:08:35 <Taneb> elliott does a lot, and I have secondary sources confirming my existence
19:08:56 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:09:18 <Phantom_Hoover> What about Facekicker?
19:09:36 <soundnfury> Phantom_Hoover: I'm afraid my source is indirect, namely lectures in the history of mathematics from one Dr. P. Bursill-Hall
19:09:49 <Taneb> Facekicker... is ACTUALLY A TIME-TRAVELLING FIZZIE!
19:09:55 <Phantom_Hoover> " Pythagoras is also said to have preached that men and women ought not to have sex during the summer, holding that winter was the appropriate time."
19:10:02 <Taneb> (he's younger than he looks)
19:10:04 <soundnfury> ooh, my dinner's ready. Biab
19:10:08 <Phantom_Hoover> OK he must be real, there's no way someone would make that up.
19:10:11 <Taneb> (other way round)
19:10:30 <Taneb> He thought white chickens were sacred
19:10:59 <monqy> I've heard lots of things about Pythagoreas, but then I forgot them
19:11:01 <itidus21> as i see it the problem is that most peoples stories are depressing
19:11:09 <monqy> something about beans and wrestling, I think?
19:11:16 <monqy> these may just have been rumours
19:11:23 <Taneb> monqy, he believe people were reincarnated as beans
19:11:30 <Taneb> Wrestling, I don't know about
19:11:41 <itidus21> we want to learn more about the gauss's of the world
19:11:45 <monqy> well that's beans down at least
19:12:11 <itidus21> we want to learn about people who actually defied expected human limitations
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19:12:33 <elliott> monqy: maybe he wrstled beans
19:12:36 <Taneb> edwardk, also, is there any possible ComonadApply that isn't also an Applicative?
19:12:52 <elliott> Taneb: Does ComonadApply imply having a -> f a?
19:13:05 <Taneb> Ah, no it doesn't
19:13:23 <ais523> gah, I had a dream last night in which the length of a bridge was measured in attolightseconds
19:13:38 <ais523> and now none of the online unit conversion things recognise the unit, so I can't tell how long it actually is
19:13:44 <elliott> try wolfram alpha
19:13:46 <ais523> (my guess is too short)
19:13:52 <ais523> I disagree with its ToS
19:13:59 <Taneb> I had a dream last night where I went back to first school to resit my GCSEs, with some guy I know called Juan
19:13:59 <elliott> sucks to be you
19:14:05 <elliott> `frink attolightsecond -> metre
19:14:16 <HackEgo> 149896229/500000000000000000 (exactly 2.99792458e-10)
19:14:22 <ais523> yep, /way/ too short
19:14:28 <ais523> even attolightyears would be
19:14:37 <Taneb> And I had to get a fake tan?
19:14:49 <elliott> `frink attolightcentury -> metre
19:14:50 <itidus21> i went to school with a Juan. hHe had some issues. i was wondering a few weeks ago what has become of him
19:14:59 <HackEgo> Warning: undefined symbol "attolightcentury". \ Unconvertable expression: \ attolightcentury (undefined symbol) -> 1 m (length)
19:15:05 <elliott> rip
19:15:07 <itidus21> ^wasn't sure whether to capitalize my sentences.
19:15:18 <itidus21> and i forgot to check
19:15:32 <Taneb> itidus21, was he a Spanish misogynist?
19:15:43 <itidus21> it doesn't seem fair to say i, and call him Juan
19:16:27 <itidus21> Taneb: nah.. he had some kind of mental issue where he started misbehaving
19:16:49 <itidus21> juan perez
19:16:51 <Taneb> Okay, he probably didn't find a time machine and move to 2011 Hexham
19:17:02 <Taneb> Juan RIDICULOUS SURNAME
19:17:28 <Taneb> Felipe Rodriguez Osorio
19:18:39 <Taneb> So...
19:22:09 <itidus21> i would like to hire hayao miyazaki to draw all my game art
19:22:27 <Taneb> itidus21, have you...
19:22:37 <Taneb> How close have you ever come to completing a game?
19:24:25 <itidus21> my most prolific period was when i was doing stuff with the allegro library on dos, which meant none of this nonsense about windows, opengl, directx, sdl, makefiles
19:25:14 <ais523> yay allegro
19:25:17 <itidus21> but i guess most importantly, my mind was healthier back then.
19:25:36 <ais523> SDL and allegro are kind-of similar…
19:25:42 <itidus21> humm
19:25:46 <itidus21> i guess
19:26:13 <ais523> the main difference is that allegro has software 3D rendering, which is kind-of useless nowadays because GPUs got invented
19:26:14 <itidus21> but i am not sure how to put this. allegro didn't constantly remind you that you were using a tool for experts
19:26:17 <Sgeo_> The TkDocs person tweeted me
19:26:21 <Sgeo_> Mostly because I found a typo
19:26:39 <Taneb> Notch tweeted me because I asked what he meant by chips
19:26:59 <Taneb> Turns out he meant crisps, but he thought fries would be a cool idea
19:27:01 <itidus21> ais523: yeah, i used the 3d allegro stuff a little..
19:27:17 <itidus21> i didn't actually make anything with it
19:27:20 <elliott> Sgeo_: TkDocs, wow!!!
19:27:22 <itidus21> just 2 experiments
19:27:23 <elliott> you are famous
19:28:21 <itidus21> ais523: infact, allegro is so good that i was able to get 3d models moving on the strength of the allegro vivace document alone, with no prior knowledge of 3d math
19:28:44 <ais523> yep, it's nice if you want to learn the principles behind 3D but not the maths
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19:28:53 <ais523> the maths is actually pretty easy, though
19:29:07 <itidus21> hmm...
19:29:52 <itidus21> i toiled over the document.. going so far as to write the section on 3d down in a notebook
19:30:12 <itidus21> which in hindsight doesn't sound like all that much of an effort
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19:32:51 <itidus21> Taneb: the biggest obstacle now is that i just don't care like i used to
19:33:39 <Taneb> :(
19:33:41 <Taneb> That's sad
19:33:49 <Taneb> You should make yourself care!
19:34:13 <itidus21> hmm
19:34:37 <itidus21> caring is an elusive thing
19:34:46 <ais523> huh, a link on the homepage of a website went to a .swf file
19:34:47 <itidus21> i took it for granted when i did care
19:34:50 * ais523 tries to open it with Totem
19:35:09 <itidus21> it may be that my house is frankly quite depressing
19:35:18 <ais523> apparently it is indeed some embedded flash thing rather than a video
19:35:21 <ais523> just not embedded…
19:35:46 <ais523> oh, Chromium seems to know how to open it
19:36:09 <ais523> oh, even nicer, there's a "view as PDF" that's only accessible from inside the SWF
19:36:11 <itidus21> i think my brother is really on the verge of some kind of breakdown
19:36:23 <ais523> err, that goes to an HTML file
19:37:08 <Taneb> itidus21, give him a hug
19:37:10 <Taneb> ais523, ditto
19:37:41 <Taneb> elliott, tritto
19:38:04 <elliott> hi
19:38:15 <Taneb> Give him a hug!
19:38:18 <itidus21> Taneb: i can't. heh. i never gave my dad hugs. and well.. it would rock the boat too much
19:38:25 <elliott> Taneb: who
19:38:31 <Taneb> itidus21's brother
19:38:43 <itidus21> we're not a hugging family
19:39:00 <elliott> help
19:39:07 <Taneb> `quote mezzoforte
19:39:11 <HackEgo> 455) <NihilistDandy> Non sequitur is my forte <NihilistDandy> On-topic discussion is my piano <Taneb> Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte <Taneb> Full fat milk is my pianissimo <Taneb> On which note, I'm hungry
19:39:29 <itidus21> who the fuck am i kidding
19:39:32 <itidus21> i have $1000
19:39:37 <itidus21> i have no reason to be depressed
19:40:25 <itidus21> i even have 4 sessions of free therapy
19:40:44 <itidus21> and a broadband internet connection
19:41:10 <itidus21> and 1kg of hommus
19:41:22 <itidus21> (well my brother said i can have some)
19:42:57 <itidus21> ahem.
19:43:02 <itidus21> `quote
19:43:03 <itidus21> `quote
19:43:03 <itidus21> `quote
19:43:08 <HackEgo> 475) <oerjan> i try to be a hermit but it's hard with all these housemates.
19:43:16 <HackEgo> 746) <fizzie> [...] and then you just shuffle the integral signs around a bit and hope no mathematicians notice.
19:43:17 <HackEgo> 776) <elliott> then they edited their own talk page comments after someone replied to it, and edited /the replier's comment/ so that it made sense in context
19:46:04 <edwardk> Taneb: there are _lots_ of ComonadApply instances that aren't Applicative
19:46:41 <edwardk> also if you work with indexed monads and indexed comonads the operations become even more distinct from those of applicatives since the index gets updated differently
19:46:47 <itidus21> i was never actually prolific. i always liked to do things without knowing how
19:47:03 <itidus21> its a very strange mindset to have
19:48:03 <itidus21> but then again, i did used to be more inspired
19:52:54 <mroman> broadband connection is a reason for not having depressions?
19:53:00 <mroman> o_O
19:59:42 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:59:46 <elliott> hi oerjan
19:59:51 <oerjan> hi elliott
20:00:00 <elliott> hi oerjan
20:00:04 <Taneb> Helloerjan
20:00:20 <oerjan> helliott
20:00:43 <oerjan> hellotaneb
20:01:14 <Taneb> My nick isn't good for this...
20:01:19 <olsner> `welcome oerjan
20:01:21 <HackEgo> oerjan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:01:41 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:03:30 <oerjan> getoutaneb
20:03:37 <Taneb> :(
20:03:43 <Taneb> /part
20:04:59 <oerjan> parting is not so bad. i hear moses did some big parting.
20:05:35 <nortti> /quit
20:05:43 <oerjan> you could say the egyptians were left in the channel.
20:08:41 <olsner> hmm, I think this is the episode where picard has an extended dream and learns to play a flute
20:09:32 <olsner> many of the actual episodes sound eerily similar to the TNG Season 8 tweets
20:11:24 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:11:47 * oerjan wonders if olsner saw when he linked http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/120717.html (includes the following strips)
20:11:59 -!- edwardk has joined.
20:12:15 <olsner> did I link that?
20:12:20 <olsner> if so I didn't see that
20:12:23 <oerjan> no, i did
20:14:42 <olsner> :)
20:16:28 <olsner> ah, yes, this is the one with the flute
20:18:48 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
20:19:56 <olsner> hmm, they're quite inconsistent with their handling of medical problems... for some reason this time it wasn't "emergency transport!" but "the captain's hurt!"
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20:57:32 <Taneb> Dammit, oerjan
20:58:07 -!- edwardk has joined.
21:00:09 -!- nortti_ has joined.
21:00:38 <oerjan> Taneb: what?
21:00:59 <Taneb> I'm now stuck reading a daily webcomic that started in 2001
21:01:04 <oerjan> XD
21:01:13 <oerjan> been there, done that :P
21:01:22 <Taneb> And it's 5 years since I read IWC!
21:01:29 <olsner> at one second per picture that should only take like 1 hour
21:02:37 <oerjan> well i binged it only a few months ago, and i managed.
21:02:59 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:04:47 <Sgeo_> Taneb, what comic?
21:04:56 <Taneb> Sheldon
21:04:56 <oerjan> i looked at it because i was looking at kaja foglio's livejournal, and she mentioned it positively.
21:05:31 <oerjan> (note: if you don't know who kaja foglio is, don't look or you will find yourself binging yet another webcomic (or four)
21:05:34 <oerjan> )
21:06:02 <oerjan> (i.e. girl genius and other foglio work)
21:10:28 <Taneb> (I read Girl Genius)
21:10:34 <oerjan> ok you're saved then
21:10:40 <Taneb> (No other Foglios, though
21:10:41 <Taneb> )
21:11:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah, I was thinking it'd be strange if you liked their fetish stuff.
21:11:17 <oerjan> Taneb: well that's the only _currently_ running one, but there's an "our other comics" link to archives
21:11:35 <oerjan> Taneb: also dave kellett has a scifi comic as well, drive
21:11:51 <Taneb> oerjan, can you at least let me archive binge this one?
21:12:10 <oerjan> Taneb: SURE SURE
21:12:22 <oerjan> TALK TO YOU IN A MONTH THEN
21:12:28 <Taneb> I'm also running through the archives of Schlock Mercenary, two a day
21:13:12 <Taneb> I'm up to...
21:13:19 <Taneb> 2002
21:13:25 <elliott> is schlock mercenary the mormon one
21:13:25 <elliott> i forget
21:13:31 <elliott> all i remember is the author's a mormon and it's bad
21:13:41 <oerjan> a bad case of mormon?
21:13:48 <Phantom_Hoover> *mormon missionary
21:14:10 <oerjan> i thought all mormons are supposed to spend a while as missionaries
21:14:40 <oerjan> which is why you see them (and the jehova's witnesses) around, even in norway
21:15:10 <Taneb> I've never actually seen either
21:15:25 <Taneb> There's a Jehova's witness place-y thing just outside Hexham
21:15:28 <elliott> missionaries are the worst eurgh
21:16:30 <oerjan> the new trend is supposedly african missionaries coming from the countries we originally converted
21:16:53 <oerjan> since we've turned into heathen atheist scum
21:17:26 <elliott> oerjan: wait, you actually get missionaries from /abroad/ in Norway?
21:18:00 <oerjan> elliott: so they say. and the handful of mormons i've met on the street were americans, afaict
21:19:20 <oerjan> although i vaguely recall them speaking norwegian with an accent.
21:20:23 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:20:38 <olsner> I've run into a couple of swedish mormons
21:21:10 <oerjan> btw i think it was only past month norway passed a law greatly diminishing the ties between government and the state church
21:21:31 <oerjan> not 100% removing though
21:22:16 <elliott> oerjan: isn't that a redditty spin on it; iirc it was done for internal structure reasons (maybe taxation), not to loosen the officiality of the church?
21:22:26 <oerjan> the king personally asked to still be required to be a member
21:22:58 <oerjan> elliott: i don't think it has to do with taxation. the priests are still supposed to be government paid, i think.
21:23:07 <elliott> well it was _something_. maybe olsner knows!!
21:23:17 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:23:23 <olsner> yes, ask me all about the norwegian state church!
21:23:33 * olsner knows everything, after all
21:23:39 <oerjan> but the government no longer chooses the bishops.
21:24:11 <oerjan> the church had to change into a more democratic structure first, though.
21:24:27 <olsner> <oerjan> since we've turned into heathen atheist scum <-- I guess the next africa aid will have african artists singing about how sad it is that no-one in europe knows it's christmas
21:24:41 <oerjan> olsner: word
21:24:51 <itidus21> my xmas mornings were extremely happy :D
21:25:08 <oerjan> itidus21: well you're not a heathen european, duh
21:25:13 <elliott> olsner: do they know it's christmas is like the worst song ever
21:25:15 <elliott> i argh
21:25:19 <olsner> elliott: indeed
21:25:31 <elliott> it is incredibly annoying that someone was condescending enough to actually write that crap
21:25:36 <itidus21> oerjan: well australia isn't in the EU yet
21:25:40 <elliott> yet
21:25:56 <oerjan> itidus21: you'll probably join the asian equivalent
21:26:09 <elliott> AU
21:26:12 <elliott> AUstralia
21:26:13 <elliott> coincidence??
21:26:30 <olsner> to be fair, I think they were merely ridiculously naive
21:27:07 <itidus21> oerjan: my dad did xmas the fun way
21:27:45 <elliott> olsner: that might be more depressing
21:27:58 <olsner> that was also the reason that almost none of the money raised actually resulted in anyone anywhere getting fed
21:28:08 <elliott> it probably fed bob geldof
21:28:10 <itidus21> suffice to say, my parents never talked about religion when i was growing up. until my teens my only churchly visits were xmas
21:28:38 <itidus21> after that well, it was never raised as an issue :P
21:29:46 <itidus21> but my dad did stuff like leave a bucket of water for the reindeer... and he chewed off some of the carrots we left out
21:29:49 <kmc> my parents decided it would be good for children to have religion, despite not being very religious people themselves
21:30:00 <olsner> (they failed to consider that all the money in the world won't magically make a civil war go away or make a bunch of random countries cooperate around a shared charity food supply)
21:30:12 <itidus21> or did he
21:30:13 <kmc> olsner: what, you mean "Africa" isn't a single country?
21:30:24 <oerjan> the 80's _were_ naive. i still vaguely recall how there was this big environment-supporting multinational concert. i also recall a chinese president or minister or something giving a video speech in it. the reason i recall that particularly is probably because at the same time the tienanmen massacre was happening.
21:30:25 <elliott> olsner: well
21:30:29 <olsner> kmc: it is, but they have civil war and shit
21:30:44 <kmc> you should all read wrongingrights.com
21:30:48 <elliott> olsner: according to the lyrics, "the only water flowing is the bitter sting of tears"
21:30:52 <kmc> they have a regular feature "Africa: Land of Rape and Lions"
21:31:00 <elliott> so if i was a ruthless dictator i would probably want some water that isn't the bitter sting of tears
21:31:11 <elliott> "And the Christmas bells that ring there are the clanging chimes of doom" I HONESTLY FORGOT HOW AMAZING THESE LYRICS ARE
21:31:18 <itidus21> i used to get into the tree decorating
21:31:22 <elliott> what are the chimes??? what do the chimes represent
21:31:51 <itidus21> once upon a time my family convinced me it was fun to make paper chains to decorate the tree and rest of house out of cut up paper ribbons
21:32:06 <elliott> "Well, tonight thank God it's them instead of you" this is good
21:32:08 <olsner> elliott: they represent DOOM
21:32:14 <elliott> thank god african children are suffering and I'm not
21:32:19 <kmc> which is about rich westerners ignoring most aspects of africa
21:32:20 <elliott> A+ message
21:33:10 <kmc> anyway my parents took me to church every week even though they weren't particularly keen on religion
21:33:23 <kmc> which was an annoying waste of time
21:33:43 <olsner> augh, why would they do that?
21:34:07 <pikhq_> olsner: Stuck in their thoughts is the idea "Church is good for you", no doubt.
21:34:11 <kmc> also i think i took it more seriously than they intended and so worried a lot about whether i would be going to hell or not
21:34:23 <kmc> they failed to communicate the whole "j/k about the bible, just be nice to people because it's the nice thing to do"
21:34:41 <elliott> i remember identifying apathetically as a christian for a while despite never being introduced to or indoctrinated into religion at all by my parents
21:34:52 <elliott> maybe because i went to a church of england first school?
21:35:23 <elliott> i guess there was the whole lord's prayer thing but afair that's as far as the CofE aspect actually went
21:36:33 <kmc> lol church of england
21:36:44 <olsner> schools that are associated with religions scare me
21:37:00 <itidus21> olsner: its pretty common really
21:37:02 <elliott> olsner: well religion in the uk is a bit funny
21:37:04 <olsner> I think there ought to be an age limit on religion, much like there are regulations on ads targeted to kids
21:37:12 <elliott> in that it exists and we just kind of ignore it most of the time
21:37:14 * oerjan recalls accidentally seeing one good american tv preacher on tv once. he spoke about how you should have love, not fear, and if you were basing your faith on fear instead of love, you were doing it wrong.
21:37:25 <kmc> olsner: yeah
21:37:25 <itidus21> olsner: essentially all private schools in australia are named after one saint or another
21:37:31 <kmc> there is a lot of awful gruesome stuff in the bible
21:37:35 <kmc> and a lot of really dangerous memes too
21:38:02 <elliott> olsner: it is not like there are not other ways to instill bad stuff in kids
21:38:42 <elliott> I mean a parent does not have to take their child to church to get them to grow up to be a bigot
21:39:03 <kmc> yeah
21:39:07 <olsner> elliott: well, sure... but preventing some ways must still be beneficial :)
21:39:14 <kmc> that's pretty stupid argument elliott
21:39:24 <olsner> I also think that things like indoctrinating your kids in your evil religious cult should count as child abuse
21:39:47 <kmc> olsner: and it does, but we have a weird idea of which religions are evil cults
21:40:18 <kmc> if your religion has 100 people and you sexually abuse children, it's an evil cult
21:40:30 <elliott> kmc: well I do not really see the point of legislating this kind of stuff patchwork when you're really just using an age limit on religion as a proxy for getting kids to have the values you want
21:40:35 <kmc> but if you have many millions of followers and a wealthy global institution behind it, then sexually abusing children is fine
21:41:18 <itidus21> i was approached by two girls at a busstop to talk about religion a week or two ago... i told them my concern was that god was defined vaguely, and escaped on the bus
21:41:27 <olsner> sexual abuse is ... somewhat irrelevant since that's illegal regardless of religious association
21:41:42 <kmc> sadly i don't think this discussion will uncover any new revelations about religion
21:41:53 <kmc> olsner: sure, but the catholic church systematically covers up sexual abuse by priests
21:41:54 -!- nortti_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
21:42:03 <kmc> and yet the catholic church is still considered a respectable and tax-exempt organization
21:42:15 <kmc> whereas if your cult of 100 people did that, the whole thing would get raided by federal agents
21:42:36 <elliott> kmc: ...but personally I think it is probably a bad idea to do that in the first place
21:42:46 <elliott> especially since saying "you can't teach your kids X" is just basically going to fuel X
21:42:54 <kmc> yeah i think legislating it would be fail
21:43:11 <elliott> right - and i was responding to <olsner> I think there ought to be an age limit on religion, much like there are regulations on ads targeted to kids
21:43:24 <kmc> yeah, fair enough
21:43:29 <elliott> meanwhile "Participants in the 300 Club wait for a day when the temperature drops to −100°F (-73°C) for more than a few minutes, generally in the winter. The persons first warm up in a sauna heated to 200°F (93°C) for as long as 10 minutes.[1] Then they run naked in the snow to the Ceremonial Pole itself in the −100-degree weather, and run around the Pole.[2] After this, they usually warm themselves back in the sauna again, often with the
21:43:29 <elliott> aid of alcoholic drinks.[3]"
21:43:36 <olsner> well, I'm not saying it would work :)
21:43:40 <kmc> still, the argument "there are other ways to fuck up kids!" is not much of an argument against banning some way of fucking up kids
21:43:46 <kmc> but "it wouldn't work" is
21:43:48 <elliott> disclaimer: do not run naked in -100 degree weather
21:44:11 <kmc> babies are allowed on airplanes without special seats
21:44:13 <kmc> not because it's safe
21:44:31 <kmc> but because, if it weren't allowed, you would drive and that's even more dangerous
21:44:54 <elliott> kmc: well, it's more that "religion isn't the thing you want to attack, if anything, because (a) religion is not wholly comprised of all the nasty things you want to prevent kids from being exposed to and (b) it is not the only conduit for such things, so it is inefficient and unproductive to set age limits on religion, if you want to regulate anything in the first place"
21:45:21 <elliott> kmc: what good would special seats do on a plane
21:45:44 <kmc> same as in a car
21:45:53 <fizzie> elliott: A bit funny that people at Amundsen-Scott have a club that's based on Fahrenheit temperatures. (Maybe "166 Club" wouldn't just have sounded as good.)
21:45:54 <kmc> as is, they're allowed to sit in your lap
21:46:05 <kmc> fizzie: heh
21:46:31 <elliott> fizzie: Well, -100 degrees C is pretty cold.
21:46:38 <elliott> 200 degrees C is pretty hot, also.
21:46:45 <itidus21> `frink -100 farenheit to celsius
21:46:52 <itidus21> i think i did that wrong
21:46:57 <HackEgo> Warning: undefined symbol "farenheit". \ Bounds in range expression are of unsupported types: (-100 farenheit (undefined symbol), celsius (undefined symbol)) \ at frink.expr.bh.byte(frink) \ at frink.expr.bh.evaluate(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.parseString(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.parseStrings(frink) \ at frink.parser.Frink.main(frink) \ Bounds in range expression are of unsupported types:
21:46:57 <kmc> today i rode the Emirates Air Line
21:46:59 <kmc> not to be confused with Emirates Airline
21:47:09 <olsner> itidus21: the original quote included celsius conversions
21:47:22 <itidus21> lol..........
21:47:24 <elliott> `frink F[-100] -> C
21:47:33 <HackEgo> ​-73.33333333333333333
21:48:00 <itidus21> wow.. thats freaking cold
21:48:21 <itidus21> but i was thinking it was -100c
21:48:43 <olsner> I remembered nitrogen boiling at -77C, but luckily it was actually 77K
21:48:47 <itidus21> but either one is not a good idea
21:49:28 <kmc> i once observed people having a long, impassioned argument about the boiling point of nitrogen
21:49:39 <olsner> it would be pretty scary if places on earth could get cold enough for the atmosphere to almost turn liquid
21:49:55 <kmc> since then i and my friends have used "boiling point of nitrogen" to refer to any emotionally heated argument which is actually about an objectively checkable fact that someone could just look up
21:50:19 <itidus21> olsner: well ... we will see what xkcd does next
21:50:50 <shachaf> kmc: They should've argued about the boiling point of helium instead. :-(
21:51:04 <kmc> is that a trick question
21:51:06 <elliott> kmc: it's 4
21:51:08 <oerjan> sheesh it's not that hard to convert between fahrenheit and celsius. look:
21:51:15 <oerjan> `frink F[-40] -> C
21:51:24 <HackEgo> ​-40.0
21:51:35 <itidus21> gasp
21:51:52 <olsner> elliott: actually I think my primary objective with that idea was not so much "religion is horrible!!" but rather that we should make sure that people's faith is based on a conscious decision
21:52:02 <elliott> olsner: yeah
21:52:08 <olsner> and based on other laws there's a certain age where we say that people become capable of making decisions
21:52:16 <elliott> olsner: I don't disagree, I just think that that essentially applies to everything you can be indoctrinated with
21:52:23 <elliott> which is most everything
21:52:26 <olsner> indeed
21:52:41 <elliott> and at that point it gets sort of tricky :p
21:53:02 <olsner> of course the important part is the stuff I don't agree with
21:53:07 <oerjan> shachaf: *melting point of helium, hth
21:53:12 <olsner> that's not *that* tricky
21:53:24 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, I probably meant melting.
21:53:49 <fizzie> Finland has sometimes had -50C temperatures (though really rarely), and you can stand a minute or two of +125C, so I suppose you don't need to go to the pole to join the 300 Club. Though the ten minutes mentioned might be pushing it, and I suppose if running up to the pole is an obligatory part...
21:54:01 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/2_Helium.png liquid helium looks refreshing
21:54:26 -!- impomatic has joined.
21:54:43 <olsner> so what happens if you drink that?
21:54:58 <elliott> well it is sort of cold
21:55:00 <elliott> so i suspect you die
21:55:08 <coppro> olsner: you get squeaky burps
21:55:15 <shachaf> That looks like lemonade.
21:55:16 <Sgeo_> Is that thing with the guy who drank liquid nitrogen urban legend/made up or was it real?
21:55:28 <shachaf> Sgeo_: Who cares?
21:55:30 <shachaf> Lern2urbanlegend.
21:55:44 <oerjan> lern2snopes
21:56:02 <shachaf> lern2lern2
21:56:06 <elliott> Unlike ordinary liquids, helium II will creep along surfaces in order to reach an equal level; after a short while, the levels in the two containers will equalize. The Rollin film also covers the interior of the larger container; if it were not sealed, the helium II would creep out and escape.[5]
21:56:08 <elliott> superfluids are weird as heck
21:56:12 <fizzie> World Sauna Championships used to do 110C, up until they stopped after those few fatalities.
21:56:14 <shachaf> > fix ("lern2"++)
21:56:16 <lambdabot> "lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern...
21:56:55 <fizzie> Oh, there was just one dead guy after all.
21:57:07 <nortti> ^ul ((learn2)S:^):^
21:57:07 <fungot> learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2learn2 ...too much output!
21:57:11 <elliott> After the death of one finalist and near-death of another during the 2010 championship, the organizers announced that they would not hold another.[2] This followed an announcement by prosecutors in March that the organizing committee would not be charged for negligence, as their investigation revealed that the contestant who died may have used painkillers and ointments that were forbidden by the organizers.[3]
21:57:14 <oerjan> hm actually snopes doesn't seem to have anything except a message board message
21:57:20 <elliott> pretty fucked up
21:57:37 <fizzie> elliott: Sauna is serious business.
21:57:37 -!- Virgil has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:57:55 <Sgeo_> Suddenly I'm slightly sad that Tcl doesn't have infinite-length strings
21:58:15 <fizzie> "His death was aided by his use of strong painkillers and local anesthetic grease on his skin."
21:58:22 <mroman> ^bf_textgen learn2
21:58:26 <itidus21> Sgeo_: nothing has infinite length strings :)
21:58:29 <mroman> !bf_textgen learn2
21:58:30 <elliott> fizzie: I wonder if he thought about the part where he might die.
21:58:32 <mroman> !bf_gen learn2
21:58:33 <elliott> itidus21:
21:58:38 <elliott> > cycle "you are wrong"
21:58:38 <olsner> "was aided by" ... makes it sound like it was a good thing
21:58:39 <lambdabot> "you are wrongyou are wrongyou are wrongyou are wrongyou are wrongyou are w...
21:58:41 <mroman> ^bf_gen learn2
21:58:44 <mroman> damn
21:58:46 <mroman> ^help
21:58:47 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
21:58:49 <mroman> !help
21:58:50 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
21:58:56 <mroman> !bf_txtgen learn2
21:58:59 <EgoBot> ​82 ++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++>+><<<<-]>--.-------.----.+++++++++++++++++.----.>.>. [275]
21:59:03 <kmc> dick balls
21:59:03 <itidus21> damn... i see now .. the error of my.. ways
21:59:13 <elliott> kmc: hi
21:59:21 <kmc> helliott
21:59:21 <fizzie> elliott: At least he made it on the Wikipedia "List of unusual deaths" article.
21:59:25 <Sgeo_> I still think that Tcl is interesting
21:59:28 <shachaf> kmc: Did you hear ddarius is coming to visit the west coast?
21:59:32 <olsner> helium is weird... "Boiling of helium II is not possible due to its high thermal conductivity; heat input instead causes evaporation of the liquid directly to gas."
21:59:33 <mroman> ^bf +[>++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++>+><<<<-]>--.-------.----.+++++++++++++++++.----.>.>.<]
21:59:33 <kmc> oh cool
21:59:34 <fungot> learn2.dHA=NJ($*&2,<
21:59:34 <shachaf> copumpkin: The west coast: Such a good coast, even ddarius is coming to visit.
21:59:37 <kmc> did not hear
21:59:45 <mroman> yeah!
21:59:46 <fizzie> fungot: What was THAT all about.
21:59:47 <fungot> fizzie: " id fnord, fnord in the fire. this was the best he fnord has had a run of fnord and he soon retired again. at another, he insisted on her joining him in a chair, beating me at my lodging in the temple, as much consulted as those of any fnord of the pyrenees. no commotion, says mr bentham, that interest was synonymous with beggary. see aristophanes; plutus, fnord.
21:59:52 <itidus21> elliott: though, i enjoy being wrong. phew
21:59:58 <kmc> shachaf: the west is the best. ride the snake seven miles
22:00:42 <fizzie> Incidentally, I'm going to a conference in Portland, Oregon, United USA of America after a month and a bit. Isn't that on the west side, more or less?
22:00:45 <fizzie> Not quite coast, though.
22:00:58 <shachaf> fizzie: That's pretty west.
22:01:07 <mroman> ^bf +[>++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++>+><<<<-]>--.-------.----.+++++++++++++++++.----.>.>.[-]<[-]<[-]<]
22:01:08 <fungot> learn2.
22:01:16 <shachaf> fizzie: You should go to San Francisco, California, United USA of America!
22:01:20 <mroman> ^bf +[>++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++>+><<<<-]>--.-------.----.+++++++++++++++++.----.>.>.[-]<[-]<[-]<[-]<]
22:01:21 <fungot> learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.lear ...
22:01:44 <fizzie> shachaf: I don't want to wear flour in my hair, though.
22:01:54 <Sgeo_> I sort of like how Tcl, if someone wants to do byref stuff, requires explicitness on both sides
22:01:57 <shachaf> fizzie: I don't believe that's a requirement.
22:02:05 <Sgeo_> Although C# has that use case covered more cleanly
22:02:09 <fizzie> I heard you have to, if you're going to San Fran Cisco.
22:02:17 <mroman> ^bf +[>++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++>+><<<<-]>--.-------.----.+++++++++++++++++.----.>.>.[-]<[-]+<[-]<[-]<]
22:02:17 <fungot> learn2.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.learn3.lear ...
22:02:34 <shachaf> fizzie: You can't believe everything you hear.
22:02:37 <mroman> afk
22:02:55 <oerjan> ^+[->[>++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++>+><<<<-]>--.-------.----.+++++++++++++++++.----.>.>.[[-]<]+]
22:03:02 <oerjan> ^bf +[->[>++++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++>+><<<<-]>--.-------.----.+++++++++++++++++.----.>.>.[[-]<]+]
22:03:03 <fungot> Mismatched [].
22:03:10 <oerjan> oops
22:03:27 <kmc> Sgeo_: yeah, i like that feature in C#
22:03:32 <kmc> though i haven't used C# very much
22:03:46 <oerjan> ^bf +[+++++++++[>+++++++++++>+++++>+><<<<-]>--.-------.----.+++++++++++++++++.----.>.>.[[-]<]+]
22:03:47 <fungot> learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.learn2.lear ...
22:03:49 <coppro> C has that same feature
22:03:58 * Sgeo_ vaguely wonders if upvar has other uses in Tcl
22:03:59 <shachaf> What feature in C#?
22:04:00 <fizzie> It's far easiest if you just use the input bit.
22:04:01 <fizzie> ^bf ,[>,]<[[<]>[.>]<]!lern2
22:04:02 <fungot> lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2lern2le ...
22:04:10 <kmc> coppro: except it's tied up with several other concepts in C
22:04:30 <Sgeo_> shachaf, you can pass in variables by reference, but need to be explicit about it both when calling the function and when writing the function.
22:04:49 <shachaf> Oh.
22:04:58 <coppro> kmc: well sure
22:05:24 <kmc> also you can declare an "out" reference
22:06:01 <kmc> which means the caller is not required to initialize the variable in that argument position
22:06:06 <kmc> but otoh the callee is required to assign it
22:06:15 <kmc> (i'm not sure where or how exhaustively these things are checked)
22:06:50 <kmc> i like that the London area has a unified fare structure for all rail transport
22:07:16 <kmc> you can use mainline intercity trains to get around town and it costs the same as a Tube trip between the same pair of zones
22:07:32 <Sgeo_> On the other hand, calling such a function in Tcl is less syntactically ugly than in C#
22:07:33 <Sgeo_> Arguably
22:07:42 <Sgeo_> But uglier to write
22:07:48 <Sgeo_> (To write the function)
22:09:35 <kmc> i think new york would benefit from this feature
22:09:47 <kmc> although there are far fewer mainline rail stations overall
22:10:03 <pikhq_> Sgeo_: upvar can seek up to an arbitrary point in the stack. With some nasty, nasty hacking you could get it so you could pretend to have dynamic scope in Tcl.
22:10:16 <fizzie> If I recall correctly, you're not allowed to use the actual long-distance trains at all to get from Helsinki central railway station to Pasila/Tikkurila where they also stop mostly to pick up more passengers for which getting to those stations is easier than going to the centrum.
22:10:36 <pikhq_> Or other, worse things.
22:10:50 <itidus21> ^bf ,[>,]<[[<]>[.>]<<+>]!lern2
22:10:51 <fungot> lern2lero2lerp2lerq2lerr2lers2lert2leru2lerv2lerw2lerx2lery2lerz2ler{2ler|2ler}2ler~2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2ler2le ...
22:10:54 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:10:57 <itidus21> d'oh
22:11:05 <nortti> :O
22:11:12 <Sgeo_> Why not, for fake dynamic scope, just have a command that sets the variable, runs the passed script, then resets the variable back to where it was?
22:11:22 <Sgeo_> Or am I missing something in what dynamic scope is?
22:11:24 <kmc> fizzie: do they actively prevent you from getting on, or they just won't sell you a ticket
22:11:30 -!- kallisti has joined.
22:11:31 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host).
22:11:31 -!- kallisti has joined.
22:11:37 <kmc> sometimes when there are two stations at the end of an intercity line, it means they never check tickets between those two stations
22:11:45 <kmc> so you can get away with riding for free
22:12:19 <itidus21> ^bf ,[>,]<[[<]>[.>]<+]!lern2
22:12:19 <fungot> lern2lern3lern4lern5lern6lern7lern8lern9lern:lern;lern<lern=lern>lern?lern@lernAlernBlernClernDlernElernFlernGlernHlernIlernJlernKlernLlernMlernNlernOlernPlernQlernRlernSlernTlernUlernVlernWlernXlernYlernZle ...
22:12:46 <fizzie> kmc: I don't think they sell a ticket, and I have a feeling they watch for passengers getting off on those boarding-only stations, but that's just a feeling. They never manage to check tickets that early, no.
22:13:20 <pikhq_> Sgeo_: proc bar {set x foo; foo};proc foo {puts $x};bar in a dynamic-scoped Tcl would work.
22:13:36 <pikhq_> Sgeo_: With any number of stack levels between foo and bar, assuming none of them modified x, in fact.
22:13:54 <kmc> Sgeo_: i believe that's how Scheme's fluid-let works
22:14:03 <kmc> (MIT/GNU Scheme, anyway)
22:14:33 <fizzie> People do ride the local trains for free, too, and it's very possible it's economically a rational thing to do, since there's only limited amount of people doing ticket-checking, and it's a fixed cost of something like 65 EUR if you get caught.
22:14:43 <kmc> but it needs to use dynamic-wind in order to deal with continuations properly
22:14:43 <fizzie> Oh, 80 EUR now.
22:14:54 <kmc> and dynmaic-wind is insane dark magic
22:15:01 <kmc> also it doesn't work well with concurrency
22:15:26 <Sgeo_> pikhq_, had to fix your syntax, but why isn't it working (if I set x "" beforehand)?
22:15:30 <Sgeo_> Isn't x a global variable?
22:15:45 <itidus21> fizzie: it ends up breaking even, which is their plan all along.... :D
22:16:05 <pikhq_> Sgeo_: Why would it be?
22:16:44 <Sgeo_> Well, it would be if I do set x "" before running the procs? Oh, if I use global maybe it will work
22:17:17 <Sgeo_> (System32) 20 % unset x
22:17:17 <Sgeo_> (System32) 21 % proc bar {} {global x; set x foo; foo};proc foo {} {global x; puts $x};bar
22:17:17 <Sgeo_> foo
22:17:30 <pikhq_> Sgeo_: You're missing the point.
22:17:31 <pikhq_> Sgeo_: Entirely.
22:18:20 <Sgeo_> :/
22:18:34 <pikhq_> Sgeo_: In a dynamic-scoped languages, functions can access locals of calling functions. bar(){char *x = "foo";} foo(){printf("%s, x);} would work in dynamic-scoped C.
22:18:38 <pikhq_> Erm.
22:18:49 <pikhq_> bar(){char *x = "foo"; foo();} foo(){printf("%s, x);}
22:19:09 <kmc> pikhq_: is that really a requisite?
22:19:25 <kmc> you can have a language where functions have local variables and also variables inherited by callees
22:20:33 <kmc> also i wouldn't call Python a dynamic-scoped language, but you *can* access caller's variables by sufficient dark magic
22:20:36 <pikhq_> kmc: Then only the inheritable variables would be of dynamic scope, but... Yeah, that works.
22:21:03 <kmc> so i would say dynamic scope is a property of a variable and not really of a language
22:21:06 * variable does a jig
22:21:20 <pikhq_> The same is true of Tcl: the call stack is inspectable...
22:21:27 <kmc> i have even seen semi legitimate uses of this feature in python
22:21:43 <pikhq_> kmc: Dynamic scope as a language property would mean that all variables are like that, if it has any meaning at all.
22:21:44 <Sgeo_> The corresponding feature in Tcl is probably more frequently used
22:21:57 <pikhq_> Sgeo_: Yes, but only for pass-by-reference.
22:22:22 <pikhq_> And upvar only peeks one level up the stack.
22:22:24 <kmc> for EDSLs say
22:22:38 <pikhq_> Rather than as many levels as is necessary to find a variable with that name.
22:22:58 <fizzie> SRFI 39 -- http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-39/srfi-39.html -- does kind of explicitly dynamic-scoped things in Scheme.
22:23:15 <Sgeo_> pikhq_, was going to say no it can look at any level, but yeah, doesn't keep searching
22:23:52 <Sgeo_> Could probably loop or something to find it
22:25:02 <pikhq_> Yeah. Combine uplevel and info vars, I guess.
22:32:15 <Sgeo_> kmc, I'm now curious how you access a caller's variables in Python
22:33:37 <kmc> sys._getframe
22:33:45 <kmc> "CPython implementation detail: This function should be used for internal and specialized purposes only. It is not guaranteed to exist in all implementations of Python."
22:33:51 <kmc> so i'm stretching the truth a bit
22:34:45 <Sgeo_> Blah
22:35:01 <Sgeo_> Tcl seems to be more introspectiony, I guess?
22:36:53 <kmc> my friend had an EDSL which worked like run('x + y')
22:37:13 <kmc> where that code 'x + y' is code for the embedded language, not for Python, but should have access to python variables named x and y
22:37:36 <kmc> run('x + y', {'x': x, 'y': y}) is pretty shitty
22:37:40 <elliott> fizzie: Re the sauna death thing: "As Kaukonen and Ladyzhensky were disqualified for not leaving the sauna unaided, Ilkka Pöyhiä became the winner.[10]"
22:37:46 <kmc> but perhaps run('x + y', locals()) is the reasonable compromise
22:37:47 <elliott> I'm not sure I think much of the organisers of this thing.
22:38:06 <elliott> kmc: I was about to say, just use locals().
22:38:17 <elliott> (Or just don't do that in the first place. But.)
22:38:29 <kmc> you can also do run('x + y', x=x, y=y)
22:39:01 <elliott> "Kaukonen woke up from a coma two months after the event. His respiratory system was scorched, 70% of his skin was burnt and eventually his kidneys failed as well."
22:39:03 <elliott> jesus christ
22:39:10 <elliott> imagine passing out in a sauna and waking up two months later
22:39:26 <elliott> "also, hey, the other guy in that sauna died"
22:40:10 <Sgeo_> Should I feel odd that Tk interacts with the main program by modifying global variables
22:40:17 <kmc> yes
22:41:21 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, wait what how
22:41:21 <kmc> you should feel dirty
22:43:29 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
22:49:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, the list of unusual deaths.
22:49:30 <Phantom_Hoover> My old friend.
22:49:43 <elliott> <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, wait what how
22:49:43 <elliott> ?
22:50:01 <Phantom_Hoover> sauna
22:50:14 <fizzie> elliott: Rules are rules, after all.
22:52:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm why would his kidneys fail.
22:52:51 -!- spirity has joined.
22:52:58 <spirity> Gregor: hi what was the fix for frink in umlbox?
22:53:41 <spirity> I have /etc and /var mounted because I doesn't afraid of anything
22:55:29 <Phantom_Hoover> ~eris... I recognise that host.
22:56:14 <spirity> sssshhhh
22:56:17 <spirity> I'm hiding from someone
22:56:30 <spirity> (not on this channel)
22:56:32 * spirity secretive.
22:57:50 <spirity> correct!
22:58:02 <spirity> it's my dark information nexus
22:58:05 <spirity> hidden from the world.
22:58:07 <spirity> part of the dark net.
22:58:12 <Phantom_Hoover> oh
22:58:27 <spirity> imagine a secret lair, but significantly more boring.
22:58:38 <Phantom_Hoover> does it have paedophiles and assassins to kill the paedophiles and drugs for the assassins to psyche themselves up
22:58:51 <kmc> the swan and paedo
22:58:55 <spirity> yes it has all of thse things and more.
22:59:10 <spirity> the paedophiles get high on the brains of assassins
22:59:14 <oerjan> kallisti: wait this isn't you... or elliott.
22:59:21 * oerjan is now confused.
22:59:59 <spirity> and then they chant the evil chant that summons the IRC daemons
23:00:02 <oerjan> hm wait...
23:00:13 * oerjan changes from confused to suspicious
23:00:21 <spirity> which is the medium through which we are communicating.
23:00:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Eurgh OK seriously what's your normal nick
23:00:34 <spirity> via daemons
23:00:43 * impomatic chants
23:00:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Or at least tell us something to guess
23:00:55 <elliott> oerjan: what
23:00:55 <spirity> shitting dick nipples.
23:01:06 <elliott> it's obviously kallisti
23:01:08 <elliott> if anyone is wondering
23:01:17 <oerjan> elliott: well you were hiding. but i see you have lost your _'s
23:01:17 <spirity> I wasn't
23:01:20 <impomatic> Does anyone use Joy?
23:01:25 <elliott> if you didn't realise that immediately you're kind of dumb and should be ashamed
23:01:31 <elliott> oerjan: said person is currently offline
23:01:32 <oerjan> elliott: yes but kallisti is present
23:01:39 <spirity> it's magick
23:01:48 <spirity> I have multiple internets through which to invoke the daemons.
23:02:32 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, argh right.
23:02:45 <spirity> elliott: you probably know
23:02:47 <elliott> oerjan: right because there are two people with username eris who are using umlbox
23:02:48 <elliott> and frink
23:02:48 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought him but I think I confused his cloak for his host.
23:02:54 <spirity> what was the thing that was needed for frink to run in umlbox
23:02:55 <elliott> and talk like that
23:03:07 <elliott> spirity: i don't recall anything having to be changed...
23:03:11 <elliott> grep the logs if you want
23:03:13 <elliott> `pastelogs frink
23:03:24 <spirity> well there's a mountpoint for openjdk in the source.
23:03:31 <spirity> but I have all of that stuff mounted so it's available.
23:03:46 <HackEgo> No output.
23:03:57 <spirity> (the source = hackbot source)
23:04:03 <spirity> `paste bin/frink
23:04:06 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.2576
23:04:12 <spirity> HackEgo: thanks
23:04:37 <spirity> `paste lib/frink
23:04:41 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16755
23:04:42 <spirity> HackEgo: thanks
23:05:30 <oerjan> to frink, perchance to dream
23:06:03 <spirity> this ia a binary
23:06:21 <oerjan> ia ia fhtagn
23:06:29 <spirity> I am using a .jar
23:06:32 <spirity> so maybe I should find this binary.
23:11:50 <elliott> spirity: oh that lib/frink is uh
23:11:53 <elliott> a compiled version of frink I made
23:11:54 <elliott> I think with gcj
23:12:01 <elliott> there's instructions on the frink site
23:12:02 <elliott> for how to do it
23:12:06 <elliott> except they're sort of spotty
23:12:09 <elliott> you use the jar I think
23:12:16 <spirity> is it amd64?
23:12:21 <spirity> because I could just, like, steal it.
23:12:23 <elliott> idk
23:12:52 <spirity> `run uname -a
23:12:54 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
23:12:59 <spirity> looks to be
23:14:24 <spirity> I have no idea if this will help me with my problem
23:14:28 <spirity> it's probably just some java configuration issue.
23:14:50 <spirity> but it runs fine outside of the sandbox
23:14:52 <spirity> no output inside
23:17:16 -!- nortti_ has joined.
23:17:35 <spirity> nortti_: what did you need daemons for again?
23:18:45 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:21:11 <spirity> okay that didn't work either.
23:21:22 <spirity> perhaps frink exceeds my 500MB memory limit?
23:21:29 <spirity> ..
23:22:23 <spirity> nope. that's not the problem
23:22:41 <nortti_> frink? isn't that package manager for OS X?
23:22:41 -!- impomatic has left.
23:23:10 <nortti_> "Here we can see the Border Patrol watching over the border between the United States and the United States."
23:23:13 <spirity> `run lib/frink --help
23:23:21 <HackEgo> Can't open file --help
23:23:38 <spirity> `run lib/frink -help #?????
23:23:48 <HackEgo> Can't open file -help
23:23:51 <spirity> um
23:23:58 <spirity> frink is a calculator / programming language
23:24:15 <spirity> `frink 500 USD -> dollars_1960
23:24:25 <HackEgo> Error when reading Consumer Price Index file from FTP site. \ Will use static file for historical U.S. currency conversions. \ 65.329184047319517095
23:26:05 <spirity> nortti_: why did you need daemons from the sandboxing?
23:26:28 <nortti_> whar?
23:26:46 <spirity> you mentioned needing to be able to run daemons inside the sandbox
23:26:50 <spirity> to do the emulator thing
23:28:12 <nortti_> oh. the simh thing. well it would be bit impractical to restart entire os every time command is executed
23:28:49 <spirity> that's essentially what umlbox does, if I understand correctly
23:29:10 <kmc> displaying money to 18 decimal places is a bit excessive
23:29:24 <copumpkin> wow
23:29:30 <spirity> nortti_: is it not possible to pipe into a login shell after starting the sandbox?
23:29:32 <kmc> that's a cool feature though
23:29:43 <kmc> `frink 1 dollars_1920 -> USD
23:29:53 <HackEgo> Error when reading Consumer Price Index file from FTP site. \ Will use static file for historical U.S. currency conversions. \ 11.32725
23:30:02 <nortti_> spirity: what do you mean?
23:30:27 <spirity> nortti_: well simh itself is a sandbox, right? there's no need to use any other sandboxing mechanism.
23:30:37 <nortti_> yes
23:30:57 <spirity> so you could just communicate with the login shell that you startup with. somehow.
23:31:02 * spirity hasn't looked at how simh works.
23:31:05 <nortti_> hmm
23:31:36 <spirity> you'd need to restart it whenever it dies, of course.
23:32:14 <elliott> <kmc> displaying money to 18 decimal places is a bit excessive
23:32:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:32:15 <elliott> imo not enough
23:32:21 <nortti_> well I am trying to figure out how to do it without simh destrying the input stream
23:32:23 <elliott> frink is really cool though
23:32:27 <spirity> needs infinite precision CReal
23:32:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
23:32:56 <spirity> nortti_: how does it destroy the input stream.
23:33:23 <nortti_> it randomly cuts off chars from it
23:33:27 <pikhq_> -!!((col & 0xFF000000) ^ 0xFF000000) Not-revolting restatements, anyone?
23:33:35 <nortti_> if it is from pipe
23:34:37 <kmc> yes it should display the number out to a precision where, if one person had purchased one more grain of rice in the year in question, the number would change
23:34:45 <pikhq_> (the effect of that, BTW, is: if the high byte is not 0xFF, 0, otherwise 0xFFFFFFFF)
23:34:52 <pikhq_> (and yes I want it branchless)
23:35:10 <spirity> nortti_: that's odd.
23:35:19 <nortti_> yeah
23:35:56 <nortti_> it is realated to certain flags about ttys
23:40:06 <oerjan> pikhq_: would using == not be branchless?
23:40:54 <oerjan> -((col >> 24)!=0xFF)
23:41:05 <oerjan> oops
23:41:10 <coppro> oerjan: depends on how your compiler implements that
23:41:15 <oerjan> * -((col >> 24)==0xFF)
23:41:30 <elliott> kmc: you can purchase individual grains of rice?
23:43:50 <spirity> kmc: should be hydrogen atoms
23:43:57 <spirity> since that's the most abundant substance in the universe.
23:44:03 <spirity> at the atomic level anyway
23:44:20 <spirity> anything less would just be impractical!
23:45:47 <oerjan> !c printf("%u", ~(unsigned)3);
23:45:52 <EgoBot> 4294967292
23:46:14 <oerjan> > showHex 4294967292 ""
23:46:15 <lambdabot> "fffffffc"
23:46:36 <spirity> I didn't realize (unsigned) was a valid cast.
23:46:45 <spirity> I should probably get "The C Programming Language" and read that thing.
23:47:12 <oerjan> it probably doesn't make a difference there, but just in case
23:47:24 <elliott> spirity: why wouldn't it be?
23:47:29 <elliott> unsigned is the same as unsigned int
23:47:34 <spirity> ah right.
23:47:34 <elliott> just like "long" is "long int"
23:47:40 <spirity> I forgot "unsigned" is a valid type.
23:48:33 * spirity also recently learned that you can't use aggregate types in selection statements.
23:48:47 <oerjan> pikhq_: -!((~col)& 0x00FFFFFF) is also shorter if i got that right
23:49:08 <spirity> elliott: are you familiar with Rust? I've been going through the tutorial.
23:49:55 <elliott> I know of it
23:50:16 <spirity> some of the concepts need some... work. but it looks promising.
23:51:39 <spirity> structural typing in particular is something that I'd like to see more of.
23:52:03 <pikhq_> oerjan: Mostly trying "not fucking insane"
23:54:39 <olsner> table[col >> 24]
23:55:33 <pikhq_> olsner: ... Tempting.
23:55:58 <elliott> olsner: that will be slower, won't it?
23:56:02 <elliott> the bitwise expr involves no memory lookups
23:56:28 * olsner does some handwaving and mumbles something about cache
23:56:47 <oerjan> pikhq_: -!((~col)>>24)
23:56:59 -!- zzo38 has joined.
23:57:35 <pikhq_> Well. How long will the table be? 8 * 32 bits... 256 bits...
23:57:55 <kmc> why do so many sinks in the UK have separate faucets for hot and cold water
23:58:21 <kmc> it is completely unreasonable
23:58:23 <oerjan> pikhq_: i guess you think that's _more_ insane, right? >:)
23:58:30 <olsner> unfortunately I think you mean 256 * 32 bits :) but 256 bytes also works, if you sign-expand while/after reading
23:59:26 <zzo38> kmc: Why do you think it is unreasonable?
23:59:30 <olsner> or... 256 bits, yes, but then you'll also need to look up a bit position
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