←2012-08-04 2012-08-05 2012-08-06→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:21:25 <augur> oklopol! :D
00:22:16 <Phantom_Hoover> I watched a video of the ending!
00:22:24 <Phantom_Hoover> The virgin turns out to be the guy from the start.
00:35:08 * Sgeo is watching Red vs. Blue
00:35:44 <ion> sgeo: Both Chimays are awesome.
00:37:27 <Sgeo> Uh
00:37:31 <Sgeo> I'm still in season 1
00:49:09 <zzo38> Does LCD monitor sometimes wrong phase even though it was correct yesterday?
00:54:57 <ion> Switch to a digital video interface.
00:54:59 <oklopol> it seems too hard for me to solve manually in reasonable time, at least if i insist on "realistic" running, so i wanted to make a bot for it, but apparently there's no easy way to send keydowns and keyups to the active window so ble.
00:56:05 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, what?
00:56:21 <oklopol> when it's me vs IO/API stuff, "not easy" means it's not "import keystuff; keystuff.sendkeydown(key)".
00:56:28 <oklopol> what what?
00:56:55 <Phantom_Hoover> You seemed to say that without context.
00:57:10 <oklopol> oh sorry context was clop
00:57:22 <Phantom_Hoover> ah
00:57:35 <oklopol> see i went to the shoppe between my messages, so no time passed.
00:57:49 <Phantom_Hoover> How would you do it with a bot, make it mash hjk over and over?
00:58:03 <Phantom_Hoover> (Leaving out l makes your back leg act as a stabiliser.)
00:58:26 <oklopol> i'm not sure what i'll do yet, but i certainly won't do anything myself, i will automatize everything and just let it play.
00:59:22 <oklopol> i have ideas but the most sensible solutions would require me to parse the at least the rotation, velocity and rotational velocity of the horse, which sounds tedious.
00:59:57 <oklopol> so i'll probably just have it hill climb the last five seconds of best solutions known sofar and measure the speed at which the horse is moving.
01:00:16 <oklopol> to get a utility function
01:01:01 <Phantom_Hoover> You could decompile the Flash, lay it out on a slab and stick electrodes into it, but that's... very tedious.
01:01:32 <oklopol> looking at the actual data moving around inside the flash thing gets way too IO for me.
01:01:42 <oklopol> i just parse everything from the window atm
01:03:07 <oklopol> where everything = where the horse currently is on the level
01:07:21 <oklopol> luckily there's a little horsie at the bottom of the window, although it's still pretty annoying to do due to the tree.
01:09:57 <zzo38> What is the picture on the list of ideas for?
01:13:57 <oerjan> zzo38: Tektur's edit has the summary "picture of a bit esoteric lamp symbolizing ideas"
01:14:14 <zzo38> OK.
01:14:23 <zzo38> Does any TV set have 16:15 aspect ratio mode?
01:19:40 <zzo38> ion: Digital video interface, well, that doesn't answer my question though.
01:22:02 <zzo38> By discussion with some people I have come up with another kind of digital video interface consisting of eleven pairs and all data in one direction only. It also uses nine bits per channel (27 bits per pixel) due to just how it turns out. The pairs are labeled: RED0, RED1, RED2, GREEN0, GREEN1, GREEN2, BLUE0, BLUE1, BLUE2, CLOCK, SYNC.
01:22:29 <zzo38> The resolution is known by the number of CLOCK signals between two SYNC signals; there are three clocks per pixel and one sync per frame.
01:24:17 <zzo38> (Maybe add a twelvth pair labeled AUDIO which has a mono audio signal. Now it can use 24 pins of DB-25.)
01:57:20 <shachaf> kmc: This person is working on a program called "kmc".
02:01:23 <oerjan> k modular compiler
02:13:54 <quintopia> kickass monkey crawler
02:19:59 <zzo38> What person?
02:38:52 <zzo38> Is it OK? for(x=0;x<16;x+=2) { y=tiles[addr].data[x]; tiles[addr].data[x]=tiles[addr].data[x^7]; tiles[addr].data[x^7]=y; }
02:39:18 <quintopia> looks right
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03:55:17 <zzo38> What is algorithm for rotating a 8x8 icon of one bit per pixel?
04:09:47 <quintopia> by 90 degrees?
04:10:49 <quintopia> i wrote code that did that with colored bitmaps stored as 1-dim arrays
04:13:04 <quintopia> it was in java (because processing) but you can translate:
04:13:37 <quintopia> public void rotate(PImage in, int times) { int l=in.pixels.length; in.loadPixels(); int h=in.height; int w=in.width; for (int j=0;j<times;j++) { color[] newbuff = new color[l]; for (int i=0;i<l;i++) { newbuff[i]=in.pixels[i%w*h+h-1-i/w]; } in.pixels = newbuff; h=w^h; w=w^h; h=w^h; } in.width=w; in.height=h; in.updatePixels(); }
04:14:02 <quintopia> in.pixels is the original image array, and newbuff is the new image's array
04:14:44 <quintopia> times is an integer that tells it to rotate 90*times degrees
04:14:56 <quintopia> newbuff[i]=in.pixels[i%w*h+h-1-i/w]; is the real work
04:24:53 <zzo38> But in this case it is one bit per pixel, so the array is length 8 (actually 16 because there is two planes, but we can ignore that).
04:35:00 <soundnfury> hmm. How would you rotate an image through 90 degrees in-place? Supposing that all you can do is pixel swaps.
04:35:09 <soundnfury> I'll allow you to assume a fixed size of 8x8 if that helps
04:35:36 * soundnfury thinks he has the answer, but it might not be optimal
04:37:20 <FreeFull> Do you want to rotate it by 90 degrees in a certain direction or by 180 degrees?
04:37:51 <soundnfury> 90 in a certain direction
04:37:58 <soundnfury> 180 is too trivial ;)
04:38:16 <FreeFull> It's actually pretty easy to do
04:38:42 <soundnfury> Fairly easy, yes
04:38:50 <FreeFull> Let's say char x[8]; is the input picture
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04:38:57 <FreeFull> and char y[8]; is the output
04:39:08 <soundnfury> you using a bitmask of 1-bit pixels there?
04:39:34 <soundnfury> there may be an efficient trick you can pull in that case, Iunno
04:39:47 <soundnfury> no, no separate output. *in-place*
04:40:48 <quintopia> soundnfury: do the same routine i did above, but with three xors instead of the assignment
04:41:01 <FreeFull> Well, if you do it in place, you end up overwriting the data you want to read
04:41:32 <quintopia> (same as i did for switching the height and width)
04:42:10 <soundnfury> yeah but supposing you have a single "swap pixel (x1,y1) with pixel (x2,y2)" operation
04:42:32 <soundnfury> what pattern of such operations do you use to do the rotate in the fewest ops?
04:42:33 <quintopia> oh right
04:42:47 <FreeFull> Hmm, maybe you could do 90° rotation with two flips
04:42:57 <FreeFull> I thought about it ages ago but I forgot
04:43:02 <quintopia> yeah i think freefull is right
04:43:16 <quintopia> it's like that one nametag swapping puzzle
04:43:21 <FreeFull> You can do any rotation using two flips
04:43:24 <quintopia> should be able to do it in two passes
04:43:28 <soundnfury> FreeFull: you could, but that's inefficient
04:43:33 <FreeFull> But I forget what the flips would be for 90°
04:43:42 <FreeFull> soundnfury: Sure, but it's a starting point
04:43:44 <soundnfury> there's a better way
04:43:55 <soundnfury> don't try to do it with linear algebra, you don't have to
04:44:07 <soundnfury> think in terms of group theory / permutations
04:44:15 <soundnfury> / actions
04:44:24 <quintopia> soundnfury: there's a better way than the two passes of swaps?
04:44:39 <soundnfury> yup
04:44:51 <quintopia> well, there's the one-pass version i guess
04:45:09 <quintopia> just swap them all into the first cell and then back out to where that next one goes
04:45:20 <soundnfury> a quarter of the pixels only get touched once with my method
04:45:40 <FreeFull> What do you mean only a quarter of the pixels?
04:45:59 <soundnfury> well, two flips takes w*h swaps, right?
04:46:03 <FreeFull> If you have a checkerboard image you have to touch all the pixels to rotate it 90°
04:46:18 <soundnfury> quintopia's method takes w*h-1 swaps
04:46:32 <soundnfury> my method takes ¾w*h swaps
04:46:33 <FreeFull> Once you have two flips
04:47:05 <soundnfury> FreeFull: read again. not "only a quarter get touched once", but "a quarter only get touched one".
04:47:09 <soundnfury> the rest get touched twice
04:47:22 <soundnfury> in the two flips method, they all get touched twice
04:47:28 <FreeFull> soundnfury: Shouldn't ½w*h be possible
04:47:29 <quintopia> i dunno
04:47:35 <quintopia> i think freefull is right
04:47:41 <quintopia> i think my original idea does it like that
04:47:47 <FreeFull> quintopia: It doesn't
04:47:56 <quintopia> i didn't explain it
04:48:04 <quintopia> i rejected it too fast
04:48:24 <soundnfury> FreeFull: I don't think ½w*h is possible
04:48:50 <soundnfury> I should make clear that you have to find a general method that works for any image
04:48:54 <quintopia> right
04:48:55 <zzo38> Actually char x[8] is like what we have not the swap pixel operation.
04:48:57 <quintopia> rectangular
04:49:02 <FreeFull> I have a ½w*h+1 method
04:49:09 <soundnfury> quintopia: no, square
04:49:11 <zzo38> I already have mirror, flip, draw rectangle, and format conversion.
04:49:16 <soundnfury> I mean, with a totally black image you need no swaps
04:49:26 <quintopia> soundnfury: then why say w*h
04:49:31 <soundnfury> zzo38: This isn't a practical problem to do with what you're doing, it's just a puzzle
04:49:40 <zzo38> soundnfury: OK
04:49:42 <quintopia> ½L
04:49:42 <soundnfury> quintopia: just because
04:49:48 <FreeFull> You can swap pixels in a circular pattern
04:49:54 <FreeFull> Or rather square pattern
04:49:56 <soundnfury> FreeFull: yes...
04:49:58 <FreeFull> But if you just go clockwise
04:50:02 <soundnfury> you're getting there...
04:50:22 <FreeFull> I need to think of the code though
04:50:40 <quintopia> yeah the spiraling thing does ¾
04:50:53 <zzo38> Is there any better way than swap pixels?
04:50:57 <soundnfury> quintopia: yup. Can you see a way to beat it?
04:51:17 <quintopia> yeah i think
04:51:37 <quintopia> three swaps for every rectangle of pixels
04:51:56 <quintopia> tl with tr, tr with ll, lr with ll
04:52:10 <quintopia> wait
04:52:14 <zzo38> I do happen to have lookup tables "reverse" and "unmingle" but could add a few more if it help a lot
04:52:15 <quintopia> that last one's off :P
04:52:24 <quintopia> tl with tr, tr with ll, tr with lr
04:52:27 <FreeFull> Let's say we have a 2x2 image
04:52:32 <FreeFull> 1001
04:52:40 <quintopia> tl=top left, lr = lower right etc.
04:52:52 <soundnfury> quintopia: just think permutations: (1 2 3 4) = (1 2) (2 3) (3 4)
04:53:53 <quintopia> soundnfury: i said (1 2) (2 4) (2 3). that way no *value* moves more than twice
04:53:54 <FreeFull> I just thought of something that probably isn't very useful
04:54:39 <FreeFull> If you treat the outer rim of the image as a binary number of 28 bits, by rotating it right by 8 you literally rotate it right
04:54:40 <soundnfury> quintopia: do you mean (1 3)(1 2)(3 4)?
04:54:55 <soundnfury> FreeFull: that's quite neat, yes
04:54:59 <FreeFull> But that would be inconvienient to code
04:55:16 <quintopia> FreeFull: also converting the bit array to that number would end up slower than this
04:55:20 <soundnfury> but I don't know how useful it is, unless you actually store your image in taxicab polar co-ordinates
04:55:21 <zzo38> Yes that is true but useless since the picture is not stored in that format.
04:55:44 <soundnfury> which would also be inconvenient as you now have a triangular array to store
04:56:29 <FreeFull> anyway, to rotate a 2x2 image, the way I'm thinking of would have four swaps
04:56:41 <FreeFull> But that's w*h and not the best according to what yous ay
04:56:46 <quintopia> i had an idea to execute soundnfury's method faster
04:57:01 <quintopia> without assuming a swap routine
04:57:57 <quintopia> hmm
04:58:03 <quintopia> but it requires square image
04:58:09 <FreeFull> That's fine
04:58:28 <soundnfury> yeah, no problem. You can't really in-place rotate a non-square image :p
04:58:35 <soundnfury> so what's your idea?
04:58:43 <quintopia> zzo38: your best bet is the loop i said above. it rotates any image (including rectangular) in time linear in the length of the image.
04:58:57 <quintopia> soundnfury: yes you could.
04:58:59 <FreeFull> That's w*h
04:59:26 <quintopia> my method above, with the assignment replaced by three xors would rotate even non-square images in place.
05:00:02 <soundnfury> oh, you mean if you reinterpret the array dimensions?
05:00:25 <FreeFull> Ultimately, you always need to move w*h pixels to a different position
05:00:26 <quintopia> just swapping them is sufficient for a 90 degree rotation
05:01:01 <quintopia> well, i have proven you can rotate any image 90 degrees with 3*l*w bitwise operations. that's something eh
05:01:12 <quintopia> go beat it.
05:01:13 <zzo38> Do you know how it is 1 bit per pixel monochrome?
05:01:36 <quintopia> zzo38: my method doesn't care about your encoding of a pixel.
05:01:50 <zzo38> I am thinking of some other stuff too now
05:01:52 <soundnfury> zzo38: your 1bpp images I still think there should be an efficient trick with bitwise stuff
05:01:53 <quintopia> if you can fetch a bit and move it
05:02:28 <zzo38> quintopia: Sure you can fetch a bit and move it but that doesn't seem efficient, since they are packed in one byte
05:02:35 <FreeFull> You could probably rotate a byte at a time
05:02:51 <zzo38> FreeFull: Yes that is one of my thoughts too.
05:03:08 <quintopia> FreeFull: it is difficult to rotate a byte at a time, since the bits will all end up separated in memory after the rotation
05:03:29 <FreeFull> quintopia: What do you mean?
05:03:55 <quintopia> assume row major ordering on a picture 10 pixels wide.
05:04:10 <quintopia> bits that start next to each other in memory will end up separated by 10 bits
05:04:11 <FreeFull> Yes, row major ordering is the common one
05:04:38 <FreeFull> We are working with a picture 8 pixels wide though
05:04:41 <FreeFull> 8x8
05:04:44 <quintopia> fine
05:04:44 <soundnfury> something like y[0]=((x[0]&0x80)>>7)|((x[1]&0x80)>>6)|((x[2]&0x80)>>5)|...|(x[7]&0x80)
05:04:48 <quintopia> they end up a byte separated
05:05:29 <FreeFull> soundnfury: You said in place
05:05:31 <soundnfury> Or you could use bitfields (in C) and a massive block of assignments, and rely on vectorising compilers
05:05:32 <quintopia> soundnfury: that is essentially the method i give above, rewritten to handle a byte at a time
05:05:47 <soundnfury> FreeFull: I'm talking about zzo38's problem now, sorry
05:06:18 <quintopia> soundnfury: and i think it is the best bet
05:07:10 <soundnfury> Can you cast the char[8] to a uint64_t and do something nifty there?
05:08:03 <zzo38> soundnfury: Maybe not since the endianness might differ
05:08:14 <FreeFull> soundnfury: That would depend on endianness
05:08:18 <zzo38> Although it might be some algorithm that work with any endianness.
05:08:39 <FreeFull> And I don't think it would be useful
05:08:48 <soundnfury> You might possibly be able to condition on #ifdef BIG_ENDIAN
05:09:01 <quintopia> there is a whole thread on this
05:09:02 <quintopia> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1667591/rotating-a-bitmap-90-degrees
05:09:23 <quintopia> the top answer looks promising
05:09:43 <soundnfury> yeah, it does
05:09:57 <FreeFull> In the first byte, the first bit becomes the last bit
05:10:09 <quintopia> i like that binary search approach
05:10:10 <FreeFull> And the rest of the bits are from the side
05:10:12 <soundnfury> oh nice, it uses octal constants!
05:11:41 <zzo38> I rarely use octal constants but sometimes I find it useful, one purpose is to encode seven-segment displays
05:12:01 <quintopia> zzo38: did you see that solution? it appears to be exactly what you want and is completely in-place
05:12:12 <soundnfury> zzo38: my favourite octal use is chmod
05:12:19 <zzo38> I didn't look yet but maybe I will do so
05:12:38 <soundnfury> though I also like to use octal for backslash escapes, like C does
05:13:25 <soundnfury> that's how I handle escapes in quIRC
05:13:48 <zzo38> chmod is another use of octal numbers. I will also use octals when the number of bits of some field is a multiple of three
05:14:19 <soundnfury> indeed
05:14:38 <soundnfury> also if you are dealing with a 9-bit byte or 36-bit word computer
05:14:51 <zzo38> Yes those are the kind of things I meant
05:15:21 <quintopia> why is it good to use them then?
05:15:27 <quintopia> oh nvm
05:15:32 <quintopia> for storing them
05:16:06 <soundnfury> distinguish the case of "multiple-of-3-bit fields in software" (like chmod) from "multiple-of-3-bit bytes in hardware" (like 36-bit word computers)
05:16:24 <soundnfury> not that there are many of those around these days ;)
05:17:40 <FreeFull> If you're using a 36-bit word computer, you're likely to be using lisp rather than c =P
05:19:57 <FreeFull> I think it'd be cool if there was a modern balanced trinary computer
05:28:38 <soundnfury> FreeFull: one of my secret ambitions is to make one
05:28:54 <soundnfury> I have an engineer friend who thinks it could be done with ECL
05:28:59 <soundnfury> (Emitter Coupled Logic)
05:29:23 <soundnfury> Actually, I say engineer; he's actually a physicist, but he /behaves/ like an engineer.
05:34:11 <soundnfury> what you need are to use signals of GND/+/- for 0/1/A
05:34:40 * soundnfury wonders if esoteric hardware belongs on an esolang wiki
05:35:16 <zzo38> soundnfury: I think yes you can put hardware too there are a few things already about hardware so you could include it.
05:35:24 <soundnfury> cool
05:36:03 <soundnfury> I have a few old sketches of a ternary instruction set
05:36:16 <soundnfury> and a few ideas of how to make ternary logic on this model
05:36:36 <soundnfury> so I think I could put a design together, then emulate it in software
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05:49:36 <soundnfury> wait a minute... we can do /weighted/ sums in ECL
05:49:46 <soundnfury> since it's basically just op-amps
05:50:05 <soundnfury> this is semi-analogue, freaky
05:55:15 * soundnfury just designed a ternary half-adder using only summing and inverting op-amps
05:55:46 <soundnfury> and because everything runs in the linear region, it'd be very fast (though it'd drink power and get hot!)
06:18:31 <zzo38> Can you convert a program to a Typographical Number Theory string so that the program halt if it is true and no halt if not true? Can it be done the other way around?
06:27:05 <soundnfury> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Soundandfury/Ternary_ECL <-- half-adder done
06:31:25 <soundnfury> also, I've invented a new term, "trith table"
06:31:33 <soundnfury> it's like truth table, but for trits ;)
06:32:57 <soundnfury> Oh cock, I've just realised my half-adder is wrong
06:33:34 <soundnfury> I'll get it right /eventually/...
06:37:49 <soundnfury> Fixed it.
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06:53:00 * soundnfury is now designing an HDL for amplifier logic
06:53:12 <soundnfury> so that I can test these designs properly, and describe them without drawing pictures
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07:52:37 <Sgeo> WHY WHY WHY would I read blog posts of someone who I determined is an idiot?
08:02:56 <coppro> soundnfury: do you signify anything?
08:03:35 <Vorpal> Sgeo, no idea. You are giving their website extra hits, and depending on if it has ads and if you have an adblocker, extra ad revenue
08:03:42 <Vorpal> so yes that sounds like a very stupid thing to do
08:04:50 <Vorpal> speaking of stupid ideas, lets check if efunge works on windows. I can't see why it shouldn't, though building and starting it may require cygwin (due to a Makefile and a shell script wrapper)
08:06:34 <Sgeo> I don't seem to see any ads
08:09:15 <Vorpal> yeah it seems to work from cygwin as soon as I set up the proper PATH for it to find erlang
08:11:57 <soundnfury> coppro: no, nothing.
08:12:27 <coppro> soundnfury: well told by an idiot
08:12:27 <soundnfury> I am a tale told by an idiot.
08:12:39 <soundnfury> ;)
08:12:56 <Vorpal> is it just me, or does anyone else have problems with the annotations option being off by default on youtube?
08:13:03 <coppro> soundfury: well, at least one of us didn't say tomorrow
08:13:04 <Vorpal> I think the problem started like last week
08:13:09 <coppro> there would have been time for such a word
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08:37:32 <Taneb> Hello
08:43:44 <soundnfury> Hello, Taneb
08:43:52 <soundnfury> Good morning to you.
08:43:58 <Taneb> :)
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08:48:56 * soundnfury is inventing ternary computers made of op-amps
08:49:01 <soundnfury> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Soundandfury/Ternary_ECL
08:50:08 <Taneb> You using balanced ternary?
08:50:26 <Taneb> (-1, 0, 1 as opposed to 0, 1, 2)
09:17:08 <soundnfury> Taneb: yup
09:17:24 <soundnfury> (sorry, I was reading bitbitjump arguments from 2009)
09:17:51 <Vorpal> soundnfury, can you represent ternary logic in VHDL btw?
09:17:58 <Vorpal> also I don't remember how balanced ternary works...
09:18:23 <soundnfury> Vorpal: only by encoding each trit as two bits. Not natively
09:18:30 <soundnfury> at least, afaik
09:18:31 <Vorpal> hmm
09:18:36 <Taneb> (there's also 0, 1, ?, iirc)
09:18:42 <soundnfury> fairly sure that's the case in Verilog)
09:18:48 <Vorpal> soundnfury, can you represent analogue values in VHDL?
09:18:54 <Vorpal> I don't remember
09:19:00 <soundnfury> I don't think so. But tbh I've only used Verilog
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09:19:09 <Vorpal> fair enough
09:19:14 <Vorpal> and I only used VHDL
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09:28:23 <Sgeo> <3 Red vs Blue
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09:43:03 <Sgeo> Oh hey, the person edited their blog post and mentioned me
09:43:03 <Sgeo> http://clojurefun.wordpress.com/2012/08/04/macro-magic-the-xor-macro-38-2/
09:43:44 <Vorpal> music cds are such strange beasts.
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09:57:00 <mroman> Defmacro to the rescue!
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10:17:58 <fizzie> Vorpal: Whereas DVD-Audio is just a data DVD with an AUDIO_TS directory. (C.f. VIDEO_TS for DVD-Video.)
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10:46:07 <Vorpal> fizzie, there are DVD-Audio?
10:47:04 <Vorpal> also I almost completely finished sorting my computer based music collection now
10:47:16 <Vorpal> still, I don't think I ever ripped most of the CDs I own...
10:48:53 <fizzie> There's a standard, yes.
10:49:08 <Vorpal> Probably have about 50-70 classical music CDs that I don't have on the computer.
10:49:17 <Vorpal> maybe more
10:49:23 <fizzie> It goes up to 192 kHz 24-bit stereo; or 96 kHz 5.1-surround, officially.
10:49:41 <Vorpal> (basically all the ones I didn't find in musicbrainz and couldn't be arsed to add)
10:50:02 <fizzie> (And you can have multiple versions at different settings.)
10:50:39 <fizzie> Stored as plain old linear PCM, either uncompressed or with Meridian.
10:50:54 <Vorpal> heh
10:51:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, what do you mean "with Meridian"?
10:51:19 <fizzie> MLP.
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10:51:27 <fizzie> It's a lossless packing format.
10:51:29 <Vorpal> I see
10:51:31 <Vorpal> never heard of it
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10:51:54 <fizzie> I think it's patented or at least somewhat proprietary.
10:51:54 <Vorpal> anyway, I think I will ditch using flac and go ogg for all of that
10:52:13 <Vorpal> since that is what I'm going to use on the phone
10:52:15 <fizzie> Not that I've probably even seen a DVD-Audio disc anywhere, it's not exactly a terribly popular format.
10:52:20 <Vorpal> and I want a unified music library thing
10:53:13 <Vorpal> btw my phone supposedly supports exFAT. Samsung licensed it or something
10:53:19 <Vorpal> however that didn't work well at all
10:53:20 <fizzie> But you can put both VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS folders on the same disc, so a DVD-Audio disc can be compatible with regular DVD players, if you just put the same music into the audio track of some placeholder video.
10:53:48 <Vorpal> I reformatted the 64 GB card to FAT32 after getting "create failed" errors when copying files to it
10:53:57 <Vorpal> works like a charm now
10:54:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, I guess you could do music videos even?
10:54:38 <fizzie> Well, probably.
10:54:59 <Vorpal> still, nothing can play audio DVD that isn't a computer afaik
10:55:10 <Vorpal> so what is the point
10:55:31 <Vorpal> I just wish CDs included metadata about the music
10:55:48 <Vorpal> CD-TEXT isn't very common
10:56:03 <Vorpal> I think I seen it once on a CD-ROM
10:56:05 <fizzie> Oh, I think there are players.
10:56:11 <fizzie> As in, actual DVD-Audio players.
10:56:14 <Vorpal> heh
10:56:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, well DVD-audio would certainly making ripping this 7-CD box less painful
10:57:16 <Vorpal> cdparanoia took about two minutes for the first track on the first CD
10:57:29 <Vorpal> a 13 minute long track though
10:57:32 <Vorpal> so I guess not too bad
10:58:03 <Vorpal> anyway entering stuff into musicbrainz is painful. Especially for classical music
10:59:55 <fizzie> Oh, heh; there's a thing in the DVD-Audio standard that you're not allowed to send the output over an unencrypted digital link, like S/PDIF, unless it's limited to 48 kHz stereo.
11:00:29 <fizzie> So if you want digital audio out of your DVD-Audio player, HDMI's about the only way.
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11:04:16 <fizzie> Vorpal: Also, to correct a misstatement I made earlier; the laptop doesn't have {HDMI, DVI, VGA}; it just has {HDMI, DVI}. (Though you can of course use a DVI/VGA adapter.)
11:04:40 <fizzie> Could also sort-of explain "why DVI": can't put analogue VGA into a HDMI hole, I don't think it has the right pins for that.
11:04:52 <fizzie> (And "why HDMI" can be explained as a convenience thing.)
11:25:57 <Vorpal> heh
11:26:11 <Vorpal> doesn't explain "why DVI instead of VGA" though
11:26:25 <Vorpal> since VGA is often used for projectors
11:28:38 <Vorpal> bbl
11:32:32 <soundnfury> Hmm.
11:34:06 * soundnfury wonders just how much can be achieved in LOOPY ECLAIR
11:34:19 <soundnfury> and whether it qualifies as an esolang itself
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12:11:27 <soundnfury> I need a name for my ECL ternary computer
12:11:44 <soundnfury> preferably something containing the letters 'ECL'.
12:12:21 <soundnfury> so far I've thought of Recluse and Declare, neither of which are great
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12:24:50 <Sgeo> Ugh, this video player has an advertisement playing counter that's wrong
12:24:59 <Sgeo> The ad keeps playing even when it says 0 seconds left
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13:29:01 <elliott> has everyone seen http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Deadfish&curid=2038&diff=33318&oldid=33243
13:30:22 <Sgeo> Now I have
13:30:30 <Sgeo> I need sleep before comprehension though
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13:34:46 <FreeFull> fizzie:
13:34:56 <FreeFull> fizzie: My semi-newish laptop still has VGA for some reason
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13:35:01 <FreeFull> VGA and HDMI
13:35:45 <FreeFull> I guess they went "Hey, we have some space here, what do we put in? I know, VGA! People still use VGA sometimes, right?"
13:36:15 <Sgeo> Oh
13:36:17 <Sgeo> I get it
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14:38:52 <Vorpal> hm I want a distributed offloading thingy. Like distcc but for general tasks
14:39:40 <Vorpal> like... If I ripped a CD and I want to convert it to ogg, then I would normally do echo *.wav | xargs -P4 -n1 oggenc -q4 or so, (where -P4 is the number of cores)
14:39:49 <Vorpal> what if I could use all my computers instead
14:47:23 <elliott> see gnu parallel
14:47:25 <elliott> pretty sure it can do that
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15:03:16 <FreeFull> Can it?
15:07:03 <elliott> i think so
15:07:22 <Deewiant> "GNU parallel is a shell tool for executing jobs in parallel using one or more computers."
15:11:10 <fizzie> FreeFull: It can be useful if you e.g. need to hook up the laptop to a projector.
15:12:04 <fizzie> At least in quite a few lecture halls I've been in the provided projector cable that reaches the speaker's desk has still been VGA, no matter if the projectors themselves do DVI and HDMI and whatnot.
15:19:27 <soundnfury> Argh, recursively instantiating hardware gives me a headache
15:27:24 <soundnfury> Okay, so. Conclusion: if you supply ecloop with an ECLAIR file that contains recursion, it segfaults because it's trying to instantiate blocks that it doesn't yet have the full definition for.
15:27:54 <soundnfury> But it doesn't segfault until the third recursive call of instantiate(), in the simple case of a block that contains a copy of itself.
15:28:30 <soundnfury> This is because the behaviour of instantiation of incomplete objects is *weird*.
15:29:47 <soundnfury> In related news, you also have to define things before you instantiate them else the instantiator gets confused - it can't handle forward references.
15:29:55 * soundnfury head asplode
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15:40:52 <Gregor> Hmm. I put a poll on Facebook to see what color pants I should buy. Orange, hot pink or (normal) pink. Most people voted for orange. My dad voted for hot pink. I come from a weird family.
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15:51:12 <FreeFull> Gregor: Go for hot pink
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16:45:56 <Taneb> Hello
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16:58:20 <Taneb> Hello, elliott
16:59:00 <elliott> hello
17:00:30 <Phantom_Hoover> helliott
17:01:29 <Taneb> There's a homestuck meetup in Newcastle on Tuesday if you guys want to come
17:03:12 <Phantom_Hoover> which newcastle
17:03:50 <oklopol> the new one
17:04:05 <elliott> hhhhhheh
17:04:18 <oklopol> fuck you elliott that was funny
17:04:21 <elliott> i am fine, thank you for the information
17:04:27 <oklopol> good to know
17:04:28 <elliott> oklopol: that wasn't to you!! in fact that wasn't to anyone
17:04:33 <oklopol> oh sorry
17:04:34 <elliott> maybe it was to lambdabot
17:04:45 <oklopol> oh lambdabot you tell the best jokes :)
17:04:45 <monqy> hi
17:04:57 <oklopol> hi monqy we're being extra friendly today do you want a cookie
17:05:07 <monqy> maybe
17:05:19 <oklopol> well what the fuck kind of half-assed semiresponse is that
17:05:36 <oklopol> and also i don't have cookies :(
17:06:04 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, the one both of us can get a train to
17:07:14 <Taneb> So, the old one...
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18:02:03 <Taneb> Hello
18:02:08 <elliott> Is that Microsoft Security Essentials thing any good? I'm trying to set up a Windows VM thing.
18:02:11 <elliott> I bet... Deewiant knows.
18:02:47 <ion> I’m under the impression that it’s good.
18:02:51 <Deewiant> It's decent.
18:03:40 <elliott> Okay then. (Microsoft(TM) Update(R) helpfully offered to install it as, uh, an "update".)
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18:06:02 <pikhq> elliott: As far as I know, it's a functional antivirus program that is low on bloat.
18:06:24 <pikhq> For Windows use, I recommend it heavily over more common bullshit.
18:06:29 <Taneb> Functional as in working, or functional is in written in OCaml?
18:06:33 <pikhq> (Norton can fuck off and die)
18:06:35 <pikhq> Taneb: As in working.
18:08:41 <elliott> Deewiant: What's the name of that new-ish (native) port of bash and grep and awk and make and so on to Windows? ISTR it had a GitHub page for a website.
18:09:14 <Deewiant> Beats me..
18:09:16 <Deewiant> -.
18:09:25 <elliott> Aw.
18:09:29 <elliott> You were doing so well, too.
18:10:04 <Deewiant> I don't use stuff like that barely at all these days.
18:10:30 -!- fizzie has joined.
18:10:44 <elliott> Deewiant: Well, I need to compile this program, which has a Makefile. :/
18:10:59 <elliott> Ugh, I'm going to have to set up PDCurses and everything too.
18:11:00 <Deewiant> MinGW and MSYS :-P
18:11:21 <elliott> Deewiant: Well the idea would be to use those ports as something like MSYS except that isn't a crappy fork of ancient Cygwin.
18:11:29 <elliott> I'll be using MinGW for a compiler, yes.
18:11:50 <Deewiant> Who cares what it is, it works well enough.
18:12:21 <elliott> Well, what's "stuff like that", then?
18:12:27 <elliott> My interpretation would have included MSYS.
18:12:59 <Deewiant> I haven't used it in years, but last time I did it worked fine.
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18:17:57 <Vorpal> <elliott> Is that Microsoft Security Essentials thing any good? I'm trying to set up a Windows VM thing. <-- it is okay, and it is pretty lightweight
18:18:25 <oerjan> it certainly reduced my memory footprint when i switched to it from avg
18:19:07 <oerjan> although on the downside, i now have strange delays when starting programs
18:19:48 <Vorpal> I use it on windows, no strange delays unless I'm opening huge installers, but that happens anyway due to checking if the thing is signed or not
18:20:29 <oerjan> i mainly notice it when starting vim
18:20:40 <Vorpal> don't use vim under windows. Or anywhere
18:20:42 <pikhq> I've not really noticed much in the way of program start delay. But, then, Windows has such a ridiculous process spawn cost anyways.
18:20:49 * oerjan swats Vorpal -----###
18:21:04 <Vorpal> oerjan, I use emacs and kate on *nix and notepad++ on windows
18:21:21 <elliott> nobody cares what editor you use
18:21:37 <Taneb> Whether you prefer Rock Band or Guitar Hero however...
18:21:37 <Vorpal> indeed
18:21:49 <elliott> well, except for Vorpal, apparently
18:21:59 <Vorpal> Taneb, I don't play either
18:22:02 <Taneb> :O
18:22:53 <Vorpal> Taneb, don't both require consoles?
18:22:56 <Vorpal> I don't have a console
18:23:13 <Taneb> Nah, guitar hero at least is also arcade!
18:23:19 <Vorpal> very funny
18:23:27 <Vorpal> I don't think there is an arcade for miles
18:23:29 <Taneb> Wasted like 30 on it last week :(
18:24:44 <oerjan> <FreeFull> Let's say char x[8]; is the input picture
18:25:07 <oerjan> there's got to be something clever with shifts and bitmasks for that...
18:25:43 <Taneb> On the plus side, the high scores were really easy to beat, and I am awesome at Belly of a Shark
18:25:57 <Vorpal> FreeFull, what is the size of your char?
18:26:13 <Vorpal> Taneb, what is that
18:26:18 <Taneb> Vorpal, song
18:26:21 <Taneb> It goes...
18:26:25 <Taneb> So here I lie
18:26:27 <oerjan> it's 8 bit, since it's encoding an 8 x 8 icon
18:26:28 <Taneb> In the belly of a shark
18:26:32 <Vorpal> I see...
18:26:33 <Taneb> So fucking cold so fucking dark
18:26:36 <Taneb> So here I lie
18:26:39 <Taneb> In the belly of a shark
18:26:41 -!- elliott has left ("Leaving").
18:26:48 <Taneb> And how the fuck did I get this far
18:26:53 <Taneb> Now all I have to do
18:26:57 <Taneb> Is swim up to you
18:26:59 <Taneb> Convince you
18:27:00 <Vorpal> oerjan, monochrome with 1 bit per pixel then
18:27:02 <Vorpal> hm
18:27:03 <Taneb> To climb in too
18:27:06 <Vorpal> who uses that
18:27:20 <oerjan> Vorpal: ask zzo38 he was asking the original question
18:27:22 <Taneb> It's a nice song
18:27:35 <Vorpal> a TI calculator would be a nice place to use such a compact crazy encoding
18:27:38 <oerjan> <zzo38> What is algorithm for rotating a 8x8 icon of one bit per pixel?
18:28:41 <Taneb> Actually, I'm gonna go play guitar hero now
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18:32:31 <Taneb> Change of plan...
18:32:38 <Taneb> My brother's on the XBox
18:33:17 <FreeFull> Vorpal: I believe the C99 standard guarantees chars to be 8 bits
18:33:31 <FreeFull> I suppose you could always use uint8_t
18:34:32 <pikhq> It's 8 or more bits.
18:34:44 <pikhq> POSIX guarantees chars to be 8 bits precisely.
18:34:54 <pikhq> (because it requires uint8_t to exist)
18:35:35 <FreeFull> But uint8_t doesn't have to be equivalent to char, does it?
18:35:57 <Vorpal> <FreeFull> Vorpal: I believe the C99 standard guarantees chars to be 8 bits <-- nope
18:36:01 <Vorpal> as pikhq said
18:36:23 <pikhq> No, but it must be without padding if it does exist, and *hugely importantly* all sizes of other types are multiples of char's size in size.
18:36:30 <Vorpal> <FreeFull> But uint8_t doesn't have to be equivalent to char, does it? <-- yeah but nothing can be smaller than a char (except a bitfield)
18:36:47 <Vorpal> (which obviously still is padded to at least a char)
18:37:16 <Deewiant> POSIX requires it to have no padding?
18:37:21 <FreeFull> So you can't have uint8_t in a C implementation with 9-bit chars?
18:37:25 <pikhq> Deewiant: C99 requires it to have no padding.
18:37:28 <pikhq> FreeFull: Right.
18:37:56 <Vorpal> if you have 9 bit chars you can't have unit16_t and so on either I guess
18:38:10 <Vorpal> you could have uint18_t but that isn't standard (still allowed iirc)
18:38:35 <Vorpal> FreeFull, more realistically these days would be a 16 or 32 bit char on a DSP
18:38:41 <Vorpal> 9 bits chars are dead
18:39:33 <pikhq> Yeah, it's not standard but it's in reserved namespace, so a libc could provide it sanely.
18:39:55 <fizzie> Vorpal: uint18_t is "standard" in the sense that it will have all the properties that uint16_t would have. Well, except two more bits, obviously.
18:40:08 <Deewiant> pikhq: AFAICT no padding is only required for the signed integer types...
18:40:11 <pikhq> fizzie: Not really, it would have implementation-defined semantics.
18:40:16 <pikhq> Deewiant: Other way around.
18:40:28 <Deewiant> pikhq: Source.
18:40:49 <fizzie> pikhq: Huh? "The typedef name uintN_t designates an unsigned integer type with width N. Thus, uint24_t denotes an unsigned integer type with a width of exactly 24 bits."
18:41:01 <Deewiant> pikhq: "The typedef name intN_t designates a signed integer type with width N , no padding bits, and a two’s complement representation."
18:41:01 <pikhq> Deewiant: I'm off.
18:41:09 <fizzie> pikhq: There isn't anything special about uint16_t and such except they're required to exist if types like that exist.
18:41:31 <FreeFull> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4042
18:41:37 <pikhq> fizzie: Huh, didn't realise.
18:42:04 <pikhq> But irrelevant, because POSIX requires int8_t, int16_t, int32_t to exist.
18:42:37 <Vorpal> pikhq, POSIX.1-2001 and later you mean
18:42:51 <pikhq> Vorpal: POSIX-actually-relevant and later, right.
18:43:03 <pikhq> Guess what: HTML 1 doesn't have a video tag. But HTML does!
18:43:15 <Vorpal> what is HTML without a qualifier here?
18:43:21 <fizzie> Deewiant: "When typedef names differing only in the absence or presence of the initial u are defined, they shall denote corresponding signed and unsigned types as described in 6.2.5" -- and you can derive from that that there's no padding in uintN_t either.
18:43:26 <Vorpal> HTML4?
18:43:32 <pikhq> Why the fuck would it be?
18:43:34 <pikhq> That's old shit.
18:43:42 <Vorpal> pikhq, I bet HTML4 is still the most common HTML version out there
18:43:49 <Vorpal> not on the top 100 sites, sure
18:43:53 <Vorpal> but globally
18:44:05 <pikhq> Globally, tag soup is the most common HTML version.
18:44:09 <Vorpal> well yes
18:44:20 <Vorpal> but most of them that claim a version is going to claim HTML4
18:44:20 <pikhq> Which can't really be called HTML4.
18:44:31 <pikhq> True but irrelevant.
18:44:47 <Deewiant> fizzie: §6.2.5 requires that corresponding signed/unsigned types have the same amount of padding?
18:45:41 <fizzie> Deewiant: "Each bit that is a value bit shall have the same value as the same bit in the object representation of the corresponding unsigned type", and they have the same width. I'm trying to find out whether there's something that'd prohibit having the sign bit as a padding bit in uintN_t though.
18:45:44 <Vorpal> btw how is C11 support nowdays
18:45:50 <Vorpal> I can't find a GCC status matrix
18:46:00 <pikhq> Vorpal: When those things could not be parsed by an actual HTML4 parser, I'm calling it not-HTML4.
18:46:05 <Deewiant> HTML5 is still under development, so it's somewhat reasonable to not consider it in just "HTML".
18:46:29 <Vorpal> pikhq, fair enough
18:46:44 <Vorpal> so HTML without a qualifier should refer to tag soup
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18:47:00 <Vorpal> also I'm sad XHTML pretty much died
18:47:03 <pikhq> Deewiant: It also happens to be the only spec that describes the behavior web browsers *exhibit*.
18:47:06 <Vorpal> it made more sense than HTML5 IMO
18:48:08 <fizzie> Deewiant: FWIW, C11 has the "no padding" description explicitly also for uintN_t, and you could argue no matter what C99 exactly says, that is the intention.
18:48:20 <Deewiant> fizzie: It requires that they take up the same amount of storage, but does that require bit-level accuracy?
18:48:58 <fizzie> Deewiant: "width of exactly N bits".
18:49:05 <Deewiant> Okay, missed that.
18:49:24 <fizzie> (C11 also no longer mentions the "corresponding type" thing.)
18:49:44 <Vorpal> is there a matching POSIX version for C11 yet
18:49:46 <Vorpal> I guess not
18:49:53 <Vorpal> wonder when the next POSIX is due
18:50:05 <Vorpal> in about 6 years based on the last delay
18:50:24 <Vorpal> hm wait
18:50:25 <Vorpal> no
18:50:39 <fizzie> I think there was a thread about this with people arguing you can still derive the "no padding" thing, but I can't be bothered to figure it out. At least I'm pretty sure the only bit that could possibly be a padding bit (after applying 6.2.5) in uintN_t is the sign bit in intN_t.
18:50:45 <fizzie> comp.lang.c thread, I mean.
18:50:56 <Vorpal> in about 3 years
18:51:15 <fizzie> Or maybe it was one of the C11 comment meeting note things.
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18:52:14 <pikhq> 'Cept there's not a sign bit per se in intN_t.
18:52:20 <pikhq> (it's two's complement)
18:52:26 <fizzie> Sure there is.
18:52:33 <fizzie> One of the bits is called a sign bit.
18:53:03 <pikhq> Is it really called that?
18:53:06 <fizzie> Yes.
18:53:11 <pikhq> ... Well. I guess you can read the sign off of that bit, so.
18:53:23 <fizzie> "For signed integer types, the bits of the object representation shall be divided into three
18:53:26 <fizzie> groups: value bits, padding bits, and the sign bit.
18:53:36 <fizzie> "the sign bit has the value −(2 N ) (two’s complement)
18:53:49 <fizzie> (That's -(2^N) after evince copy-paste.)
18:54:55 <Taneb> zzo38, did you see my message the other day?
18:57:10 <fizzie> Deewiant: Also even in C99, "UINTN_MAX" is defined to be "exactly 2^N - 1", so there's not really any room for padding bits.
18:57:52 <Deewiant> I thought that padding bits are essentially invisible? Of course the _MAX wouldn't be changed.
18:58:11 <fizzie> No, but the "width" of the type includes padding bits.
18:58:22 <fizzie> So if your width is N, you have to spend all N bits as value bits.
18:58:28 <Taneb> Will I get in trouble if I learn the C from 1978?
18:58:45 <fizzie> Or maybe not.
18:59:08 <fizzie> It's hard to remember the definitions of commonplace words here.
18:59:12 <Deewiant> heh
18:59:37 <fizzie> Deewiant: Anyway, here's the defect report which added "no padding" for unsigned types too: http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_269.htm
19:01:10 <Deewiant> Heh, the committee found it too much trouble to change the second bullet
19:02:15 <fizzie> At least they fixed it in C11.
19:02:55 <fizzie> It's not exactly obvious from the document why they didn't stick that change in the Technical Corrigendum already.
19:03:27 <Deewiant> Probably because it wasn't a corrigendum as such.
19:03:34 <Deewiant> I.e. it didn't fix anything, it just clarified.
19:04:23 <fizzie> The existing text is the sort of "can be derived" about which otherwise sensible people can argue for hours, though, and that's something that I think could have been "fixed".
19:05:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, that sentence didn't really parse for me
19:05:11 <Deewiant> Sure, but I guess they want to keep their TCs as small as possible.
19:05:30 <Deewiant> As for why they want to do that, beats me.
19:05:53 <fizzie> Deewiant: Maybe compiler writers are contractually obligated to actually read those, and they don't want to bother them.
19:05:58 <zzo38> Evidently Zoe Smith set a new British record for lifting 121 telegrams!
19:06:22 <zzo38> Taneb: What message what other day?
19:06:39 <Taneb> Prelude.Generalize.choice is the same as Data.Foldable.asum
19:06:43 <Deewiant> fizzie: Yes, I'm sure the one-line diff right next to the other diff would've been a huge mental overload on the compiler writers.
19:06:47 <zzo38> O, yes, I ahve read that.
19:06:49 <Taneb> Which the former already exports
19:07:04 <zzo38> OK
19:07:18 <Taneb> I'm probably the only one who uses Prelude.Generalize...
19:07:23 <fizzie> NASA's "Curiosity" is landing in ten and a half hours, incidentally; let's hope they haven't mixed up imperial and metric units this time.
19:07:27 <zzo38> I do too
19:07:33 <Taneb> Yeah, but you made it
19:07:36 <Vorpal> Deewiant, not that one, but enough of those
19:07:40 <zzo38> OK
19:08:02 <Vorpal> "många bäckar små gör en stor å" (you guys had to learn Swedish idioms in school right?)
19:08:32 <fizzie> There's the one about breaking a camel's back that I think is more global.
19:08:36 <Taneb> Vorpal, what does that mean?
19:08:46 <Deewiant> I doubt they have that many defect reports with clarification opportunities.
19:08:48 <fizzie> Straw that broke the camel's back.
19:08:57 <Vorpal> Taneb, a rough translation is "many small streams make a large river"
19:08:59 <Taneb> fizzie, yeah, we use that here. Origin of phrase "final straw" or "last straw"
19:09:08 <Vorpal> which isn't the same
19:09:27 <Taneb> Like, working together is good?
19:09:30 <Taneb> Or evil?
19:09:37 <Vorpal> could be both ways
19:09:43 <Vorpal> depending on context
19:10:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, the "final straw" thing in Sweden is "droppen som fick bägaren att rinna över" (meaning "the drop that made the cup overflow"
19:10:34 <Vorpal> )
19:10:43 <fizzie> So I saw, at the Wikipedia article about the camel.
19:10:47 <Vorpal> ah
19:11:02 <Vorpal> though google translate thinks bägare means beaker
19:11:05 <Vorpal> well it could mean that too
19:11:08 <Vorpal> I guess
19:11:29 <fizzie> Anyway, I think the camel one sounds more appropriate in this context; I imagine a poor MSVC developer which reads the interminable TC, reaches this particular correction, finally goes mad (well, madder; it's a MSVC developer) and goes on to shoot up his colleagues.
19:12:08 <Vorpal> Taneb, all the phrase "många bäckar små gör en stor å" really means is that many small contributions that are in themselves insignificant can have a huge impact
19:12:32 <Vorpal> it can be used both in a context indicating that is bad, or where that is good
19:12:40 <Taneb> Reminds me of an avalanche?
19:12:45 <fizzie> Vorpal: Oh, we do that one in Finnish, too.
19:12:54 <fizzie> Vorpal: With a pretty literal translation.
19:12:57 <Vorpal> right
19:13:17 <Vorpal> fizzie, dude MSVC don't care about C99 :P
19:13:19 <Vorpal> or anything later
19:13:32 <Vorpal> last I checked C89 was the last supported C version in MSVC
19:14:00 <fizzie> Yeah, they only care about C++11 and such.
19:14:06 <Vorpal> indeed
19:14:15 <fizzie> "Our primary goal is to support "most of C99/C11 that is a subset of ISO C++98/C++11.
19:14:19 <fizzie> We do not plan to support ISO C features that are not part of either C90 or ISO C++."
19:15:56 <Vorpal> heh
19:15:59 <fizzie> "We recommend that C developers use the C++ compiler to compile C code. This is the best choice for using Visual C++ to compile C code."
19:16:06 <Vorpal> ouch
19:16:15 <Vorpal> except that breaks a lot of C code
19:16:29 <Vorpal> int new = old + this;
19:16:39 <fizzie> If you want "real C", they've got that C90 compiler for you, though.
19:16:47 <Vorpal> which doesn't work on C99
19:17:29 <Taneb> I've got a disc with Microsoft Visual Basic 2005 on it, which I keep in my shorts draw
19:17:32 <fizzie> "If you really need either of the following: features in C95/C99/C11 that are not part of ISO C++; or features in C that are in the C++ subset but without also enabling the writing of C++ code; then we recommend that you consider using a different compiler such as Intel or gcc (short-term) and/or pressure your standards committee representatives to have ISO C++ include more of the C standard ...
19:17:38 <fizzie> ... (longer-term)."
19:17:41 <Taneb> I only have two pairs of shorts, I'm not sure why I need a shorts draw
19:17:47 <Taneb> I wear shorts about once a year
19:17:53 <zzo38> If you want to compile a C code, use the GNU compiler or something else
19:18:00 <Taneb> Which I'm planning to make Tuesday
19:18:15 <Taneb> Gregor, did your JIT compile with MSVC?
19:18:23 <fizzie> (It's not exactly clear why pressuring your standards committee representatives helps if you don't want to enable C++ mode.)
19:18:37 <Vorpal> fizzie, where does it say that?
19:19:05 -!- TodPunk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:19:10 <Vorpal> <Taneb> I wear shorts about once a year <-- why?
19:19:10 <fizzie> It's mentioned as the long-term solution "If you really need -- features in C that are in the C++ subset but without also enabling the writing of C++ code".
19:19:24 <Taneb> Vorpal, don't like shorts. I have hairy legs.
19:19:32 <Vorpal> and?
19:19:34 <Vorpal> so do I
19:19:39 <Taneb> Sometimes I have to wear shorts
19:19:47 <Taneb> But I really do not like shorts
19:19:54 <Vorpal> why
19:20:07 <Vorpal> why 1) do you have to wear them 2) do you not like them
19:20:10 <Taneb> Maybe I'm too used to trousers?
19:20:19 <Taneb> Well, next Tuesday is for cosplay purposes
19:20:27 <Taneb> Sometimes my parents make me
19:20:39 <Taneb> I guess I just don't like them
19:20:45 <Vorpal> I have convertible trousers btw from Fjällräven. There are zippers going around them just above the knees, so you can in about a minute convert between full length and shorts
19:20:46 <Vorpal> very neat
19:20:55 <Vorpal> lots of pockets too
19:21:18 <Taneb> Used to have some
19:21:21 <Vorpal> very durable, as usual for Fjällräven (that brand focuses on people out in nature a lot)
19:21:29 <fizzie> Taneb: Was that last "them" your parents, or shorts?
19:21:41 <Taneb> fizzie, shorts
19:21:41 <Vorpal> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%A4llr%C3%A4ven
19:22:02 <Taneb> When I want pockets, I wear a jacket
19:22:38 <Vorpal> I have regular non-convertible shorts today though
19:22:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
19:22:53 <Taneb> It doesn't really get warm enough to wear shorts here
19:23:00 <Vorpal> come on you are in UK
19:23:02 <Taneb> Britain's summer temperatures are awful
19:23:06 <Vorpal> that is way more southern than Sweden
19:23:32 <fizzie> Sadly, it's not just about latitude.
19:23:37 <Vorpal> Taneb, Today's temperature peaked at about 22 C
19:23:42 <Vorpal> perfect for shorts
19:23:50 <Vorpal> hm 21 C even
19:23:59 <Vorpal> don't claim that is too cold for shorts
19:24:05 -!- FreeFull has joined.
19:24:19 <mroman> What's 411?
19:24:25 <Taneb> Okay, I'm making excuses
19:24:29 <Taneb> mroman, a number
19:24:34 <Taneb> 407 + 4
19:24:41 <fizzie> I don't wear shorts either, even though climate here is pretty close to Sweden.
19:24:43 <mroman> A.
19:24:44 <Vorpal> 406+5
19:24:47 <fizzie> (More or less.)
19:24:53 <mroman> A telephone number for information
19:25:05 <Vorpal> don't think so
19:25:14 <Taneb> You're in... Switzerland, right?
19:25:22 <fizzie> It's that in the states.
19:25:28 <Taneb> I don't think many of us will have access to that number
19:25:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, you have way more lakes, surely you have more mosquitos?
19:26:21 <mroman> If anything, it is a US telephone number, yes.
19:26:25 <fizzie> Vorpal: I'm not sure if that qualifies as "climate", especially when it comes to basic stuff like temperature. But probably, yes.
19:26:38 <mroman> give someone the 411 on something
19:26:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, well it qualifies when it comes to leg protection from said insects
19:26:46 <mroman> American Slang I guess.
19:27:00 <Taneb> Something to do with drugs, I think?
19:27:05 <Vorpal> fizzie, I always understood that the mid-southern part of Finland was pretty much a fractal pattern of forest and lakes
19:27:08 <Vorpal> is that correct
19:27:36 <fizzie> mroman: It's also a subsampling format. You can have YUV411, though things like YUV422 (or is that 420?) are more popular, I guess.
19:27:59 <Vorpal> fizzie, does that determine how many bits each field has?
19:27:59 <mroman> It's a scene in family guy.
19:28:07 <mroman> "yo did y'all check me when that hottie was all up in my
19:28:08 <mroman> coolade, yeah I was looking to break off a little
19:28:08 <mroman> something something but my crew gave me the 411 on that skank
19:28:08 <mroman> that she's all about the bleng bleng."
19:28:56 <Vorpal> fizzie, also I guess assembly is over now, how was it this year?
19:29:49 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's a relative sampling rate thing. 4:1:1, meaning U/V get sampled one quarter as often as Y. (Or Y four times as often as U/V, equivalently.)
19:29:59 <Vorpal> heh
19:30:05 <Vorpal> what is Y now again
19:30:09 <fizzie> Luminance.
19:30:13 <mroman> The second scene in which Chris is talking ghetto style I don't understand a word :(
19:30:17 <fizzie> U/V are the two chroma components.
19:30:20 <Vorpal> ah
19:30:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, which represent what in this case? I don't remember
19:30:38 <Vorpal> blue and red?
19:30:52 <oerjan> <fizzie> NASA's "Curiosity" is landing in ten and a half hours, [...] <-- that late? i was wondering if it had already happened...
19:34:19 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's not exactly very easy to say, but with U=0, the V axis goes from cyan (negative) to red (positive), and with V=0 the U axis goes from a greenish thing (negative) to violet (positive).
19:34:50 <Vorpal> hm
19:34:58 <fizzie> Vorpal: And yes, the lake thing is correct for a suitable value of "mid-southern". The coast areas aren't that lakey.
19:34:59 <Vorpal> that is pretty strange
19:37:03 <oerjan> > 59/88
19:37:04 <lambdabot> 0.6704545454545454
19:37:58 <Vorpal> fizzie, is it pine forest?
19:38:11 <Vorpal> or trees with proper leaves?
19:38:18 <Vorpal> or mixed?
19:40:59 <FreeFull> What is lambdabot written in?
19:41:17 <zzo38> I think it is Haskell
19:41:55 <FreeFull> Haskell isn't very esoteric
19:41:58 <Vorpal> oerjan, what does that ratio signify
19:42:04 <Vorpal> FreeFull, the bot is also in #haskell though
19:42:30 <Vorpal> also EgoBot pertain to esolangs but they are not written in them
19:42:33 <fizzie> Vorpal: Well, there's a reasonable amount of birch and such. The mixture ratios change as you go northwards, though.
19:42:33 <fizzie> Enough birch to make those things that we use to whip ourselves in the sauna, at least. :p
19:42:35 <Vorpal> HackEgo is just cool
19:42:59 <FreeFull> You could also use willow
19:43:01 <Vorpal> fizzie, surely it go back to birch even further to the north?
19:43:15 <Vorpal> Also birch is terrible.
19:43:21 <Vorpal> due to allergy
19:43:37 <FreeFull> Or hazel
19:43:52 <FreeFull> I guess hazel would be bad for allergic people
19:43:55 <FreeFull> Willow migth be too
19:43:58 <Vorpal> no problem with hazel personally
19:44:03 <Vorpal> just birch
19:44:03 <FreeFull> might*
19:44:17 <Vorpal> anyway why would you whip yourself in a sauna
19:44:21 <Vorpal> it sounds very strange
19:44:25 <fizzie> Vorpal: I suppose, but the lake concentration also falls before that. And there's a different kind of birch up north. I don't know the English names.
19:44:33 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
19:44:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, I thought they were the same genetically?
19:44:51 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_sauna#Finnish_sauna_customs "Occasionally one uses leafy, fragrant boughs of silver birch called vihta in West Finland and vasta in East Finland to gently beat oneself. This has a relaxing effect on the muscles and also helps in calming the effects of mosquito bites."
19:44:52 <fizzie> There's a picture tool
19:45:07 <Vorpal> fizzie, The smaller size being a pure environmental thingy
19:45:58 <fizzie> Of the thing, not a person using it.
19:45:58 <fizzie> (And I have a light birch pollen allergy too, but not enough to be really annoying.)
19:46:15 <fizzie> I guess they could be.
19:46:21 <fizzie> There's a different Finnish name.
19:46:38 <fizzie> But of course those were given long before genetics.
19:47:11 <Vorpal> fizzie, "It is usually considered especially rude to swear in sauna, even in company that does not usually shy on swearing." really?
19:47:24 <fizzie> I haven't noticed that. :p
19:47:36 <fizzie> But it could be true somewhere.
19:47:40 <Vorpal> hm
19:47:51 <Vorpal> add citation needed then
19:49:54 <fizzie> I don't hear terribly much swearing anywhere, so I probably wouldn't have noticed.
19:50:03 <Vorpal> "Foreign visitors to Finland often get invited into the sauna. This may even happen after business negotiations and other such events. On these occasions it may be acceptable to refuse, although it may not impress one's Finnish hosts. Such an invitation in a business setting may indicate that the negotiations have gone well and a joint business effort is anticipated." <-- really?
19:50:28 <Vorpal> hm that whole section on the wiki sounds so weird
19:50:40 <fizzie> Well, the first sentence at least is true as far as I know.
19:50:48 <Vorpal> of that quote?
19:50:52 <fizzie> Yes.
19:50:54 <Vorpal> right
19:51:11 <fizzie> And the second too, I believe, though I haven't been part of real business negotiations ever.
19:51:17 <Vorpal> of course, every country try to fool foreign people into trying dubious local customs
19:51:25 <fizzie> I would think it's always acceptable to refuse, though.
19:51:58 <Vorpal> anyway we have saunas in Sweden too (called "bastu") but we don't go so absurd about them
19:52:02 <Vorpal> personally I don't like them
19:52:44 -!- elliott has joined.
19:52:51 <elliott> Deewiant: I believe it was https://github.com/bmatzelle/gow.
19:53:06 <Taneb> elliott, is mcmap alive?
19:53:21 <elliott> Well, uh. That is to say... ask fizzie?
19:53:28 <Taneb> fizzie, is mcmap alive?
19:53:33 <oerjan> Vorpal: mercury's day / mercury's year, see today's iwc annotation
19:53:45 <Taneb> I never realised "fizzie" is shorter than "elliott"
19:53:58 <augur> where is ski! D:
19:54:02 <Vorpal> oerjan, hm?
19:54:11 <Vorpal> haven't been reading IWC regularly since it ended
19:54:17 <Vorpal> also I'm just about to go to bed
19:54:18 <Vorpal> so eh
19:54:33 <Taneb> I still get the RSS :)
19:54:46 <Phantom_Hoover> There's no way it'll be fully compatible with the latest MC, but it might just be a matter of adding new block types.
19:54:57 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it will almost certainly be more involved than that
19:55:03 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, they've changed the map layout since then
19:55:30 <Phantom_Hoover> Then it will be... difficult.
19:55:34 <Vorpal> is 1.3 out?
19:55:34 <Vorpal> hm
19:55:46 <Taneb> From MCRegion to Anvil
19:55:59 <Taneb> Back in 12w07a
19:56:06 <Taneb> And then 1.2
19:56:09 <Vorpal> as a format anvil is actually pretty reasonable mostly
19:56:13 <Vorpal> unlike some of the old ones
19:56:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Yeah you're probably going to have to rewrite it.
19:56:23 <fizzie> I would also be a bit surprised if someone would actually consider "willingness to go to sauna with me" a relevant criterion when making a business deal.
19:56:50 <Taneb> Everyone wants to go to the sauna with fizzie.
19:57:02 <Taneb> Everyone.
19:57:03 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: not rewrite
19:57:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Um?
19:57:15 -!- derdon has joined.
19:57:21 <Taneb> elliott, fizzie, what's it written in?
19:57:29 <Phantom_Hoover> If the map has changed format completely that entire part of it will need reworking.
19:57:32 <elliott> Taneb: C
19:57:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, C.
19:57:34 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: yes
19:57:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: how much do you know about the mcmap source
19:57:47 <Taneb> Hey, that's a language I meant to learn at some point
19:57:50 <Phantom_Hoover> OK sorry.
19:57:54 <elliott> specifically where do you get the impression the map format parser is a sufficiently large portion of the code that you'd need to rewrite mcmap
19:58:04 <Phantom_Hoover> s/it/the entire map handling code/
19:58:04 <elliott> it's abstracted enough that that would not be necessary at all, probably the changes would be localised to a few files
19:58:08 <Phantom_Hoover> That was bad wording, I admit.
19:58:10 <Taneb> MCRegion and Anvil are quite similar, too
19:58:16 <fizzie> You could even go as far as to say that it would be slightly unprofessional.
19:58:18 <elliott> the main problem would be the larger maps
19:58:49 <fizzie> (I seem to be very lagged here. Like five minutes late, judging from what fungot sees.)
19:58:50 <fungot> fizzie: simon, saint, fnord on the evening of may 14, 1908, to indicate to the public safety suffers any detriment, the state of feeling with regard to such the demands of the people at large, or from one race of men living in that village in more than, two years. this is the way in which lord bacon thus describes the logomachies of the schoolmen. and of a large part of our fnord but i cannot just now touch it. it is this tempe
19:59:39 <Taneb> fungot, tell fizzie to communicate USING THE POWER OF FUNGOT
19:59:41 <fungot> Taneb: after a due interval the wines began to come in; and the volume never appeared. an ancient writer, plutarch, i think, the argument against mr bentham's doctrine is as strong as any sober man would allow himself to use concerning locke or bacon. the westminster reviewer we have quoted from dryden the case is widely different. their connection was close enough to allow of mutual observation and improvement, of the illustra
19:59:53 <Taneb> ^style
19:59:54 <fungot> Taneb: the purpose of turning out and keeping out the whigs. i also wish to thank mr bentham for undertaking his defence, insisted that no speech or motion which he had already begun to operate. who can be more true. barere was, like chloe, false and fickle as he was eleven years ago.
20:00:02 <Taneb> ^style
20:00:02 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches* ss wp youtube
20:00:06 <fizzie> Hey, now everything came flooding in.
20:00:10 <Taneb> That was odd
20:00:16 <Taneb> fizzie, possible glitch
20:00:29 <fizzie> I also took a look at the new map format once, and the related mcmap changes seemed not terribly impossible, but there was certainly some work involved. I'd be more interested to do it if I actually played any Minecraft.
20:01:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, I forget, did you use it after elliott added mob and item tracking?
20:01:17 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, I think so
20:01:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Because those were awesome.
20:01:31 <oerjan> @tell Vorpal <Vorpal> haven't been reading IWC regularly since it ended <-- oh, there are still annotations (almost) every sunday, big ones. also he adds extra background comments to the currently rerun comics
20:01:32 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:02:19 <fizzie> There was a minecraft clone in Assembly gamedev, except you crafted a spaceship, put in thrusters and whatevers, bound keys to them, and then went on and flew the thing.
20:03:41 <elliott> @tell Vorpal (Not annotations of anything in particular.)
20:03:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:04:39 <Taneb> Oh dear god
20:04:44 <Taneb> They're singing Black Eyed PEas
20:04:46 <Vorpal> oerjan, I know
20:04:47 <lambdabot> Vorpal: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
20:04:49 <oerjan> @tell Vorpal Yeah the new Sunday stuff is more like a popular science blog
20:04:49 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:04:54 <oerjan> oops :P
20:05:02 <Vorpal> @messages
20:05:03 <lambdabot> oerjan said 3m 31s ago: <Vorpal> haven't been reading IWC regularly since it ended <-- oh, there are still annotations (almost) every sunday, big ones. also he adds extra background comments to the
20:05:03 <lambdabot> currently rerun comics
20:05:03 <lambdabot> elliott said 1m 21s ago: (Not annotations of anything in particular.)
20:05:03 <lambdabot> oerjan said 13s ago: Yeah the new Sunday stuff is more like a popular science blog
20:05:04 <Taneb> @tell Vorpal it's got art and culture stuff too, a bit
20:05:04 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:05:14 <Vorpal> very funny
20:05:15 <lambdabot> Vorpal: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:05:18 <Vorpal> @messages
20:05:18 <lambdabot> Taneb said 14s ago: it's got art and culture stuff too, a bit
20:05:25 <Taneb> Oh good, they've switched to Queen
20:05:34 <Taneb> But they're the US!
20:05:38 <Taneb> Queen's British!
20:05:56 <Vorpal> oerjan, I said I didn't read it regularly
20:06:00 <Vorpal> not that I didn't read it at all
20:06:27 <elliott> @tell Vorpal HELLO
20:06:28 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:06:31 <elliott> @tell Vorpal WHAT'S UP ?: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?
20:06:32 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:06:34 <elliott> @tell Vorpal ARE YOU HAVING A NICE DAY
20:06:35 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:06:39 <pikhq> Taneb: However, Queen is well-liked in the US.
20:06:43 <Vorpal> @tell elliott You are being a jerk now
20:06:44 <oerjan> OKAY
20:06:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:06:48 <Taneb> That's not the point!
20:06:52 <Taneb> It's the OLYMPICS!
20:06:59 <oerjan> @tell Vorpal Should I ban him?
20:07:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:07:13 <pikhq> And the fundamental property of US culture is it's the amalgamation of everyone else's.
20:07:23 <Vorpal> @tell oerjan Can I save that for a time when he is more annoying?
20:07:24 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:07:44 <elliott> @tell Vorpal JOKE'S ON OERJAN I JUST /PART ALL THE TIME ANYWAY
20:07:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:07:52 <elliott> @ASK VORPAL I CANNOT BE STOPPED??? ? ?
20:07:53 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
20:07:55 <elliott> @HELP
20:07:56 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
20:07:58 <elliott> @list
20:07:59 <lambdabot> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
20:08:01 <oerjan> @tell Vorpal MAYBE
20:08:01 <elliott> @thanks
20:08:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:08:02 <lambdabot> you are welcome
20:08:06 <elliott> haha
20:08:07 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:08:08 <elliott> i was not expecting that
20:08:11 <elliott> @messages???
20:08:12 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:08:13 <Taneb> No, that's the british culture! Freddy Mercury was born in Zanzibar!
20:08:20 <elliott> @messages
20:08:21 <lambdabot> You don't have any new messages.
20:08:23 <Vorpal> @tell elliott Indeed you part, but I'll use it at some point you don't want to part.
20:08:23 <elliott> WHER,S MY MESAGES
20:08:24 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:08:24 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:08:30 <elliott> @tell Vorpal I ALWAYS WANT TO PART
20:08:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:08:37 <Vorpal> @messages
20:08:38 <lambdabot> elliott said 2m 10s ago: HELLO
20:08:38 <lambdabot> elliott said 2m 7s ago: WHAT'S UP ?: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? ?
20:08:38 <lambdabot> elliott said 2m 4s ago: ARE YOU HAVING A NICE DAY
20:08:38 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1m 39s ago: Should I ban him?
20:08:38 <lambdabot> elliott said 53s ago: JOKE'S ON OERJAN I JUST /PART ALL THE TIME ANYWAY
20:08:40 <lambdabot> oerjan said 37s ago: MAYBE
20:08:41 <Vorpal> hm
20:08:42 <lambdabot> elliott said 8s ago: I ALWAYS WANT TO PART
20:08:55 <Vorpal> highlight spam
20:08:58 <Taneb> /part every day?
20:11:05 <Sgeo> I like Black Eyed Peas
20:11:07 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
20:11:12 <oerjan> @messages
20:11:12 <lambdabot> Vorpal said 3m 49s ago: Can I save that for a time when he is more annoying?
20:11:31 <Vorpal> oerjan, lyrics?
20:12:26 <Taneb> @tell SuperTod Nobody even knows who you are here! But I do! This is probably a long time ago!
20:12:27 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
20:12:52 <Taneb> The odds of SuperTod ever joining a channel with lambdabot in it are slim
20:13:07 <Taneb> The odds of him even being on IRC at any given time are pretty slim, too
20:13:09 <oerjan> Vorpal: yes, some 1960's or so norwegian hit
20:13:19 <Vorpal> I see
20:13:55 <oerjan> hm being a norwegian hit, there's a significant chance it's translated
20:14:19 <Vorpal> from English?
20:15:41 <oerjan> or whereever. hm that 1960 link was a bad one, maybe it's even older
20:17:35 <oerjan> no, it was 1960, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4cgYJH1WHo&feature=related
20:17:55 <oerjan> (at your own risk)
20:19:00 <oerjan> my god that's cheesy
20:20:32 <oerjan> (also, accordion)
20:24:25 <Gregor> I LOVE ACCORDION
20:24:26 <Gregor> *click*
20:24:40 <oerjan> r.i.p. Gregor
20:25:33 <Gregor> Needs moar… something.
20:25:54 <oerjan> ukulele, perhaps?
20:25:55 <ion> For all,,,,,,,“Finns” who,,,,,,,,,enjoy “grammar”: https://www.facebook.com/pages/105-kunnian-P%C3%A4iv%C3%A4%C3%A4-Talvisodan-Sankareille/172253096132410
20:26:10 <fizzie> Vorpal: Oh, right, you also asked about Assembly. Well... the 1k was nice (even if ~all the entries were one effect wonders, understandably), and the 4k/demo quality was sort of generally good, but there was nothing sort of amazingly outstanding like there has been in other years. (Perhaps because ASD didn't compete.)
20:27:35 <elliott> 1k is so bloated.
20:27:39 <elliott> 512 bytes: the ideal??
20:27:49 <fizzie> There have been a few 256b compos, I think.
20:27:54 <elliott> (With no DOS calls, naturally.)
20:27:59 <elliott> (So you can use it as a boot sector.)
20:28:20 <fizzie> pouet has size categories 32b, 64b, 128b, 256b, 512b, 1k, 4k, and so on.
20:28:31 <elliott> The 32b ones are a bit silly.
20:28:49 <fizzie> 25 entries in the 32b category.
20:29:01 <ion> elliott: Yeah, you can’t fit a lot into 4 bytes.
20:29:16 <fizzie> ion: It's a lowercase b for bytes. :p
20:29:54 <fizzie> Oh, sorry, 25 was just first page; there's six pages.
20:30:25 <fizzie> Some of those are 16-byte entries, though.
20:31:01 <Gregor> oerjan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkV6hX66HO0 It is missing being this.
20:34:59 <oerjan> OKAY
20:37:15 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:37:41 -!- augur has joined.
20:37:49 <zzo38> What computers are these being targeting?
20:37:53 <zzo38> And what programs are they?
20:37:59 <Sgeo> Grah, the IRC<->Jabber bridge in #tcl keeps tricking me into thinking people are talking
20:38:26 <FreeFull> Lol
20:39:06 <FreeFull> ^bf +.
20:39:06 <Gregor> Sgeo: Use this simple algorithm to determine instead: Has anyone talked in #tcl? -> No
20:39:06 <fungot> <CTCP>
20:39:41 <Sgeo> Gregor, #tcl is actually rather active sometimes
20:40:10 <elliott> FreeFull: Hey now, you'll summon THE STAFF.
20:40:21 <Sgeo> I didn't mean at this time though, PH
20:40:24 <FreeFull> Woops
20:40:52 <Taneb> What on earth is a CTCP
20:41:00 <Phantom_Hoover> I had absolutely no idea what an IRC <-> Jabber bridge was.
20:41:01 <FreeFull> Should have done that in query
20:41:01 <elliott> it's a ctcp
20:41:03 <Gregor> This channel does not need another STAFF infection.
20:41:05 <elliott> FreeFull: i'm kidding
20:41:06 <Phantom_Hoover> I wanted to find out.
20:41:17 <Taneb> Gregor, has that happened before?
20:41:19 <elliott> FreeFull: one time someone made fungot make a ctcp query and some unknown person complained about it to freenode staff for no apparent reason
20:41:20 <fungot> elliott: the success which has crowned the efforts to weld into one community the peoples of its two great races. our final halting-place was, by fnord this great law in an essential part in true economy. if it had happened, what hope could we have possibly got on, if our troops had exterminated them all, joining fact with theory, and take hold of another.
20:41:25 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, connects an IRC and a Jabber chatroom
20:41:26 <Gregor> !bf +.
20:41:27 <FreeFull> Phantom_Hoover: Jabber is a different messaging protocol
20:41:29 <EgoBot> ​.
20:41:30 <elliott> so they told fizzie to remove it from fungot and then idled in the channel for like months
20:41:32 <fungot> elliott: 2. a lofty power of generalisation, both in their rude, broken, fnord way which, if there was such a state unless he had read it with any attention, he means what is fnord called " first fnord because of their aptitude for it, nor the energy of a monarchy, and every bird of prey, and every part of the town, where the place, where were collected together the wisdom, the moderation, and the savage wilderness, to the serp
20:41:48 <FreeFull> elliott: lol
20:42:01 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
20:42:07 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:42:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, well that doesn't sound annoying at all.
20:42:25 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, it speaks outloud when someone on the Jabber side joins or leaves
20:45:40 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, wait why was that objectionable again.
20:46:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Wasn't it something to do with an ancient version of mirc having a potential exploit or something?
20:46:46 <elliott> oh, right, it was that ctcp that made a lot of routers crash
20:46:50 <elliott> except it was fixed by then i think
20:47:07 <Phantom_Hoover> But why is it a problem if bots can be made to do it?
20:47:10 <FreeFull> The DCC 0 one?
20:47:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Surely Malicious O'Hackerty is just going to send it by themselves?
20:47:44 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: yes, this is what i said
20:47:48 <elliott> FreeFull: stopkeylog or something
20:47:52 <elliott> sendkeylog?
20:48:13 <FreeFull> Ah, overzealous antivirus trigger?
20:49:15 <elliott> something like that, yes
20:49:22 <elliott> Deewiant: Of course it seems gow has not gotten a release for like 9 months :(
20:50:55 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
20:51:25 <elliott> Deewiant: What was that alternate terminal thing for Windows?
20:52:17 <fizzie> zzo38: The 32-byte programs? There's quite a variety of platforms; on the first page, DOS, VIC-20, C64, ZX Spectrum, Atari. Later on there's a Windows entry, though it seems to be a cheat.
20:52:37 <Taneb> 32 byte programs?
20:52:59 <fizzie> Taneb: It's a category at pouet, a demoscene archive/forum/etc. site.
20:54:02 <Taneb> 32 bytes makes 8^32 possible programs in an ideal world
20:54:08 <Taneb> > 8 ^ 32 :: Integer
20:54:09 <lambdabot> 79228162514264337593543950336
20:54:47 <fizzie> Uh... don't you mean 256^32?
20:54:59 <Taneb> Yes
20:55:01 <fizzie> Or 2^(8*32) if you want to say it like that.
20:55:09 <Taneb> > 256 ^ 32
20:55:10 <lambdabot> 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639...
20:55:24 <Taneb> I think I meant (2 ^ 8) ^ 32
20:56:32 <Taneb> > log (256 ^ 32) / log 10
20:56:33 <lambdabot> 77.06367888997917
20:56:41 <fizzie> > 256**32
20:56:42 <lambdabot> 1.157920892373162e77
20:56:43 <fizzie> The easy way.
20:57:07 <Taneb> I'm not a huge fan of scientific notation
20:57:23 <Taneb> For personal reasons
20:57:35 <Taneb> i.e. it confuses me
21:00:38 <oerjan> elliott: it was EgoBot or HackEgo, not fungot.
21:00:39 <fungot> oerjan: an inspection of the constitution, which we would never have attained the distinction of races. fitness is henceforth to be the boswell of the long line of julian nobles. some violent convulsion is expected."
21:00:54 <oerjan> which is why fungot still allows ctcp
21:00:55 <fungot> oerjan: thus juvenal immortalised the obsequious senators who met to decide the question; and proceeds to settle the order of nature, that procured to them a very wise body. in our judicial, we have in a libel, 1st. the object of our journey, and you will find if you search for it.
21:01:01 <oerjan> ^show
21:01:01 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome
21:01:34 <oerjan> !help
21:01:35 <EgoBot> ​help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
21:01:50 <oerjan> !bf_txtgen ACTION
21:01:55 <EgoBot> ​78 +++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>>-.++.<+++++++.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.>-. [817]
21:02:30 <fizzie> I can see where this is going.
21:02:41 * oerjan cackles evilly
21:02:55 <fizzie> Remeber that it has an extra newline after.
21:03:08 <fizzie> (bf_txtgen output, that is.)
21:04:30 <oerjan> ^def me bf +.++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>>-.++.<+++++++.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.,[.,]+.
21:04:30 <fungot> Defined.
21:04:35 <oerjan> ^me is testing
21:04:36 * fungot is testing
21:05:00 <oerjan> that went unreasonably smoothly
21:05:29 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:05:38 <Taneb> ^me is on fire
21:05:39 * fungot is on fire
21:05:57 <Taneb> You were saying?
21:06:26 <fizzie> ^bf +.++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++<<<-]>>-.++.<+++++++.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.,[.,]+.!is testing
21:06:26 * fungot is testing
21:06:28 <oerjan> YOU MANIACS, YOU BLEW IT UP
21:06:35 <fizzie> ^def me bf +.++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++>+++<<<-]>>-.++.<+++++++.>++++++.++++++.-.>-.,[.,]+.
21:06:36 <fungot> Defined.
21:06:41 <fizzie> OMG-optomized.
21:06:46 <oerjan> wat
21:06:58 <fizzie> The fourth cell of bf_txtgen was only used for the newline.
21:07:02 <oerjan> ah
21:07:02 <fizzie> Which happens almost all the time.
21:07:07 <fizzie> Since it's so far from the other characters.
21:11:15 <quintopia> ^me feels like a new bot!
21:11:15 * fungot feels like a new bot!
21:11:34 <fizzie> ^save
21:11:35 <fungot> OK.
21:12:26 <quintopia> where in fungespace do bf macros get written?
21:12:42 <oerjan> ^source
21:12:43 <fungot> http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98
21:13:18 <oerjan> something seems not to be loading
21:13:36 <fizzie> oerjan: There's an issue. You can work around it by using IPv6. (Happy to help.)
21:13:44 <oerjan> OKAY
21:14:47 <fizzie> quintopia: Somewhere in the negative rows.
21:15:24 <elliott> <oerjan> elliott: it was EgoBot or HackEgo, not fungot.
21:15:25 <fungot> elliott: i have just described. these schools for both sexes. this, i promise him that, in places where there is no land where paper exists to print on, where it is the scriptural statute of limitations. after that you hang them up to let them season.
21:15:31 <elliott> I am pretty sure it is not.
21:15:41 <elliott> fizzie: You were told to fix the CTCP thing, yes/
21:15:42 <elliott> *?
21:16:03 <quintopia> fizzie: is there any stuff that gets written to columns?
21:16:28 <oerjan> elliott: i am pretty sure it was Gregor who was directly accosted, not fizzie
21:16:39 <fizzie> elliott: No, not by anyone official. People on the channel recommended, after all the hulabaloo about some other bot.
21:16:46 <fizzie> I still haven't managed, though.
21:16:55 <elliott> Hmm.
21:16:58 <elliott> Okay.
21:17:06 <Gregor> I was the one attacked by the STAFF.
21:17:24 <oerjan> fizzie: wait, so the saved state won't show up in the source link?
21:17:54 <quintopia> Gregor: freenode staff? what was misbehaving?
21:17:54 <oerjan> i guess that's for the best, but still.
21:18:19 <fizzie> oerjan: Yes. And it wouldn't, anyway; that's just the version-controlled source. ^save writes a state file (fungot.dat) which is loaded at start time.
21:18:20 <fungot> fizzie: sympathy, on the whole a good or an evil, which is a model in its kind, is painfully diffuse and languid. the animali parlanti of casti is perfectly intolerable. i admire the dexterity of the plot, and the democracies under its protection. it is plain therefore, that the machine of a free commonwealth, who have seen much of the criticism by which their manner has been fashioned. from outrageous absurdity they are preser
21:18:36 <oerjan> aha
21:19:23 <fizzie> quintopia: Uh, well. I mean. Of course some columns are involved, too. But there isn't anything for which space would be allocated in "full columns", so to speak. (And the programs aren't exactly full rows either; it's rows < 0 and columns >= 0, so program storage eats up one quadrant.)
21:19:38 <fizzie> Or maybe it starts a bit higher up than 0. But anyway.
21:21:06 <quintopia> what goes in rows < 0 columns < 0? rows >=0 columns < 0?
21:21:51 <fizzie> Nothing in rows < 0, columns < 0, I think. Very little in columns < 0 at all, except for some isolated rows, like some of the underload interpreter stuff.
21:21:54 <quintopia> rows > fungot length columns >=0?
21:21:55 <fungot> quintopia: i will teach you how it should be discovered to be no better than an old fnord with a fnord skill in expressing them. fnord, who in a few hours hence, the grand security for the rights of the people is against them, more from a wish to become intimately acquainted with the general happiness are even now promoting the general happiness to the very life of such an instrument as this to talk about--i do not say there ar
21:22:08 <elliott> ^style
21:22:08 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches* ss wp youtube
21:22:21 <Taneb> The ought to be an itidus style
21:22:48 <fizzie> quintopia: Oh no, I'm wrong: in fact the stored commands go to rows >= 2000, columns >= 0. Fungot length is assumed to not grow longer. (Though it's an easy change to bump the starting address up a bit.)
21:23:04 <fizzie> quintopia: There's something in negative rows, though. Something related to the loop avoidance.
21:23:51 <fizzie> Underload stack (on row 9) grows left, starting from column 0.
21:24:08 <fizzie> (Mainly because the STRN ops always read left-to-right, so some things were easier that way.)
21:24:45 <fizzie> The current underload program can also grow to columns < 0, I suppose.
21:24:47 <quintopia> what is the format of fungot.dat? does it write everything as it's actually oriented in space with some kind of marker for where row 0, column 0 is?
21:24:47 <fungot> quintopia: these metaphysic rights entering into common life, are variously mixed and modified, enjoyed in very different accents, fnord by fnord of rights. this circumstance, which is fnord to a ferocious dog. to come into competition with them.
21:25:36 <fizzie> quintopia: No, things get (manually) serialized. It's a text-based, line-oriented format. It only saves the ^def commands and not much more.
21:25:45 <quintopia> oh
21:25:50 <fizzie> (The ^ignore string is not saved, for example; another thing on the TODO list.)
21:25:50 <quintopia> that was my other guess
21:26:01 <quintopia> oops
21:26:22 <fizzie> Oh, and it does save the 'str' entries.
21:26:28 <fizzie> For some strange reason.
21:27:16 <fizzie> So 10 first lines are str:0 .. str:9, then come the programs, with command name on one line, implementation language identifier (0 = brainfuck, 1 = underload) on second, and then the body stored in a language-specific way.
21:28:06 <fizzie> (brainfuck programs with the bytecode as one-ascii-number-per-line terminated by a line with a 0, underload programs as just the program text on one line IIRC.)
21:28:51 <quintopia> why the strange storage method for bf?
21:28:56 <fizzie> Oh, it's the underload program text as one character (as a decimal number) per line, for some reason.
21:29:00 <fizzie> Which is perhaps even stranger.
21:29:16 <quintopia> weird
21:29:21 <fizzie> I suppose I wanted to be ready for people embedding strange characters.
21:29:28 <fizzie> The bytecode itself might have newlines, for example.
21:29:52 <fizzie> +++++++++ turns into cells [X][10] where X is some number from 1 to 6 or so.
21:30:16 <fizzie> 2, apparently.
21:32:19 <fizzie> It uses FILE:G (a fgets, basically) and STRN:V (strtol) to get back to cells.
21:32:38 <fizzie> Easy to implement, not such an efficient format storage-wise.
21:32:46 <fizzie> $ wc -l fungot.dat
21:32:46 <fizzie> 7118 fungot.dat
21:32:47 <fungot> fizzie: it is true or not, the frankness with which i may know to be erroneous, i do not attack the founders of the government, when mr. eng nye, who hadn't any moral sense at all, i never use slang to an interviewer or anybody else concerned had a right to do what we can to have the franchise? all the causes which have created and fostered this spirit, i, for one, a commission in the army, he saw with sorrowful heart the blazi
21:33:32 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:38:41 <fizzie> (Can't really have embedded newlines in underload programs, but it's possible I share the serialization/deserialization code for both program types.)
21:39:15 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
21:39:22 <FreeFull> ^style jargon
21:39:23 <fungot> Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive)
21:41:45 <fizzie> I think elliott must've contributed that style.
21:41:53 <fizzie> It's not often used.
21:41:57 <fizzie> fungot: What do you sound like?
21:41:58 <fungot> fizzie: " oh, actually, she said " welcome class of ' em every time that postdates 1982, but
21:42:02 <elliott> fizzie: No.
21:42:09 <elliott> I just told you to replace the Jargon File one with the UNIX-HATERS one.
21:42:12 <fizzie> Oh.
21:42:12 <elliott> So you did, and, uh, kept the name.
21:42:16 <fizzie> Okay.
21:42:24 <fizzie> Well, that's what "replace" means.
21:42:32 <oerjan> tru dat
21:42:33 <fizzie> I was kind of wondering, though.
21:42:58 <fizzie> I just remembered it wasn't entirely my idea.
21:43:08 <fizzie> ^style fisher
21:43:09 <fungot> Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations)
21:43:13 <fizzie> This one doesn't get much use either.
21:43:17 <fizzie> It's kind of boring, though.
21:43:25 <fizzie> fungot: Say "umm" or something?
21:43:26 <fungot> fizzie: no it wasn't turkey if i remember correctly
21:43:51 <fizzie> It has a bit of transcription annotations left in it.
21:44:56 <fizzie> You, too, can own a text about turkeys for just $2000.
21:45:13 <fizzie> (That's the total asking price for both halves of it.)
21:45:21 <fizzie> (It's not all about turkeys.)
21:59:09 -!- Taneb has joined.
21:59:50 -!- monqy has joined.
22:08:56 <Phantom_Hoover> ^style homestuck is the best
22:08:56 <fungot> Not found.
22:09:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit.
22:09:04 <Phantom_Hoover> ^style homestuck
22:09:05 <fungot> Selected style: homestuck (Homestuck pages 1901-4673)
22:09:11 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot!
22:09:11 <shachaf> fungot
22:09:12 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: what, the last one. wait no, that just made you disappear" and stuff.
22:09:12 <fungot> shachaf: enter name.
22:11:58 <Taneb> fungot: Zoosmell Pooplord
22:11:59 <fungot> Taneb: of what??
22:12:10 <Taneb> fungot: of old Hexham Town, of course
22:12:11 <fungot> Taneb: you will be taking that crowbar though because that was stupid, so he can just button it happen already. i dont see him, but he had already been a mass grave
22:12:32 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, you're a mass grave!
22:12:33 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: man. it is just another waste of your talents. t)(ose are your black leanings, much as the moon takes liberty. reason. justice. civility. edification. perfection.
22:13:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I think fungot is being racist but I'm not sure.
22:13:10 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: your name is john. is that correct??
22:13:28 <oerjan> *GASP*
22:13:34 <oerjan> it's all being revealed
22:14:38 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, oh shit, my cover's blown!
22:14:39 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: the modus recognizes the drawing, but there it is, in case he doesn't want you to be my next wild presumption.
22:16:11 <FreeFull> Must be the pictionary modus
22:16:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Probably. This style also has a "that sword alone can't stop" but I forget what it is.
22:17:39 <fizzie> fungot: What causes you to be stuck in homestuck?
22:17:40 <fungot> fizzie: name one, the powerful electromagnets concealed in his gesture in retrospect. heavy-handed.
22:17:48 <fizzie> Not that.
22:18:28 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:19:23 <FreeFull> ^style
22:19:24 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck* ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
22:19:27 <FreeFull> ^style c64
22:19:27 <fungot> Selected style: c64 (C64 programming material)
22:19:45 <FreeFull> fungot: What is pie?
22:19:45 <fungot> FreeFull: it is often convenient to use dos support" program by mark niggemann, compute!'s second book of vic memory control register b the default position of the dot it is set by sprite-sprite collision interrupt.
22:20:52 <fizzie> fungot: Quote some tables, will you?
22:20:53 <fungot> fizzie: registers affected: a, x, y
22:20:57 <fizzie> Heh.
22:29:30 <fizzie> fungot: That's pretty much all the registers, really. (Discounting stack and the PC, which probably doesn't count.)
22:29:31 <fungot> fizzie: this line is last for a total of 200 numbers in the
22:33:16 -!- stanley has quit (K-Lined).
22:35:25 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
22:35:32 <oerjan> hm that's the second time i've seen stanley k-lined
22:35:50 * oerjan wonders what evil he's up to
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22:43:23 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to farooq.
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22:54:59 <fizzie> K-lines of #esoteric, 2010-2012: http://sprunge.us/JABZ
22:55:56 <elliott> only 2010, eh?
22:56:08 <fizzie> I had those handier.
22:57:06 <fizzie> Also the previous ircd might have printed out something different since I see nothing before 2010-05-16.
22:57:28 <fizzie> Yes, it seems to have printed [K-lined] with a lowercase l.
22:58:33 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/BIde -- my whole set.
22:58:40 <fizzie> Also some change in log formats.
22:59:20 <elliott> I got k-lined?
22:59:30 <elliott> Maybe it was just an excess flood thing back then.
23:00:03 <fizzie> [2009-01-19 15:25:57] < ehird> WTF @ K-LINE
23:00:26 <fizzie> You sent them an email.
23:00:29 <fizzie> Reportedly.
23:00:40 <fizzie> [2009-01-19 15:36:04] < ehird> I've sent an email to kline@freenode.net.
23:00:40 <fizzie> [2009-01-19 15:36:13] < ehird> Very WTFy.
23:00:45 <fizzie> [2009-01-19 15:49:53] ... ehird [n=ehird@eso-std.org] has quit [K-lined]
23:00:45 <fizzie> [2009-01-19 15:51:46] < fizzie> Maybe they didn't like his tone in the email.
23:01:01 <elliott> ugh
23:01:04 <elliott> i was annoying back then
23:01:09 <elliott> now i'm annoying in better ways
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23:03:24 <elliott> Deewiant: This thing's bash is 2.03. :(
23:05:58 <Abdela> H
23:06:06 <elliott> Abdela: h
23:06:15 <oerjan> `welcome Abdela
23:06:28 <HackEgo> Abdela: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
23:06:33 <Abdela> Sank
23:08:35 <elliott> Deewiant: And a version of make from 1999. Ew.
23:09:07 -!- augur has joined.
23:11:14 <shachaf> elliott: Am I annoying in better or worse ways than I used to be?
23:12:01 <shachaf> elliott: Also did you see dolio's exciting discoveries on type arithmetic?
23:12:12 <shachaf> doliorgey's, that is.
23:13:30 <elliott> Huh?
23:14:29 <shachaf> I guess not, because it was in #-blah.
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23:51:44 <oerjan> > '\0x40'
23:51:46 <lambdabot> <no location info>:
23:51:46 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at chara...
23:52:09 <oerjan> (that's a "nope")
23:54:41 <elliott> shachaf: Go on, then.
23:54:42 <elliott> > '\x40'
23:54:44 <lambdabot> '@'
23:54:59 <shachaf> elliott: ?
23:55:06 <oerjan> oh
23:55:15 <elliott> shachaf: <shachaf> elliott: Am I annoying in better or worse ways than I used to be?
23:55:15 <elliott> <shachaf> elliott: Also did you see dolio's exciting discoveries on type arithmetic?
23:55:15 <elliott> <shachaf> doliorgey's, that is.
23:55:19 <elliott> Er, the latter two lines.
23:55:40 <shachaf> elliott: GET YOUR COLOUR OUT OF THIS CHANNEL
23:56:07 <monqy> i like the thingys that render as H for me
23:56:07 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
23:56:10 <monqy> "a nice touch"
23:56:24 <shachaf> elliott: http://slbkbs.org/doliorgey-exciting.txt
23:57:32 <shachaf> monqy: That link was for elliott. :-(
23:58:27 <elliott> Well, that mystified me.
23:58:33 <shachaf> What did?
23:59:08 <elliott> The text.
23:59:33 <shachaf> Which part of it?
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