←2012-09-28 2012-09-29 2012-09-30→ ↑2012 ↑all
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01:15:53 <shachaf> kmc: In a situation where the client can get incoming packets but not receive outgoing packets, would mosh continue to work?
01:16:01 <shachaf> For reading text, that is.
01:34:03 <shachaf> @quote Cale.it
01:34:03 <lambdabot> ddarius says: Now I can just point people at a readable and relevant paper instead of having to Cale it.
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01:49:45 <itidus21> https://www.digipen.edu/?id=1170&proj=1470
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02:09:04 <itidus21> and all this time I thought we were talking about postmodern analysis of junk mail delivery methods and simulations of elephant breeding patterns
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03:32:49 <ion> ntpq -np with the GPS clock http://heh.fi/tmp/ntp-peers
03:37:52 <pikhq> Spiffy. I should totally set myself up with a GPS clock sometime.
03:38:09 <pikhq> I must be a weirdo: I actually care about having accurate time.
03:38:40 <ion> Also, everyone with an NTP server, please join the NTP pool. :-) http://www.pool.ntp.org/
03:39:15 <pikhq> Sadly, my system is not publicly accessible.
03:39:25 <pikhq> Aaaand not much of an NTP server.
03:39:37 <pikhq> Though it is currently a stratum... 3? time source.
03:39:58 <ion> That should be fine for the pool.
03:42:15 <pikhq> Yup, definitely a stratum 3 source.
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03:44:57 <pikhq> It amuses me that I own a time keeping device that would've been the envy of universities a few decades ago.
03:45:14 <ion> hehe
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07:08:13 <fizzie> I've been thinking maybe I should hook my old Garmin to this box for timekeeping, because it hasn't really gotten any use lately, what with there being GPS in the phone too.
07:09:07 <ion> Go for it (as long as it has a PPS output).
07:13:46 <fizzie> It hasn't generally been very indoor-use-capable, though. But I suppose I could always try it out.
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07:15:31 <ion> Surprisingly, my reception is fine 4–5 meters from the nearest window on the ground floor of a multiple-floor brick building.
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13:39:18 <Sgeo__> "WinRAR includes around a dozen standard filters that improve compression of several common inputs, but surprisingly also allows new filters to be defined at runtime by archives!"
13:43:35 <FreeFull> RAR has VM
13:44:30 <Sgeo__> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/10nh6s/fun_with_constrained_programming_the_winrar_vm/
13:44:42 <Sgeo__> Oh, and the LoseThos guy is in that thread
13:45:15 <FreeFull> It's not as if it's the only compression format that uses a VM
13:45:29 * Sgeo__ doesn't know much about compression formats
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14:30:10 <atriq> ...
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15:25:04 <Phantom_Hoover> help i'm trapped in england
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15:56:51 <Sgeo__> Argh when will the new Doctor Who be available
15:57:12 <Sgeo__> Also: Person decides that argument from authority is a good idea
15:57:21 <olsner> it airs on sundays, doesn't it?
15:57:31 <Sgeo__> "but dont be picking apart that website, that guy has been doing computers and writing software for longer then youve been alive, no offense"
15:58:15 <FreeFull> olsner: Nope, it airs today
15:58:19 <FreeFull> 19:20 BST
15:58:28 <FreeFull> Will be on iplayer once it ends on TV
15:58:49 <FreeFull> The episode is 45 minutes so it'll be around 20:05 BST
15:58:56 <olsner> is that the bbc thing that only works from britain?
15:59:14 <FreeFull> Yes
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16:03:25 <Phantom_Hoover> who cares, if you're not in britain you don't deserve to get to watch the bbc
16:03:30 <Phantom_Hoover> you filthy foreigner
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16:33:40 <Sgeo__> Time to reply to her
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17:51:30 <Sgeo__> I think I should learn to be more assertive.
17:51:53 <atriq> Sgeo__, why?
17:52:00 <Sgeo__> Although I think saying "And, do you own this chat? If not, why should I be silent?" counts as assertive
17:53:14 <Sgeo__> Although I said "No offense." afterwards
18:04:34 <Sgeo__> atriq, I feel like I'm pandering to someone who believes that, because her good friend made something, that thing is the be-all and end-all.
18:05:08 <Sgeo__> And that no one else in the large Facebook group should look at anything else, and I shouldn't talk about alternatives in the group
18:05:18 <atriq> Ooh, that's bad
18:05:32 <atriq> I had a dream that I was Facebook friends with kmc
18:06:03 <Sgeo__> " if that is not good enough for you to us then please do your own thing and stop posting about it in this chat"
18:06:57 <atriq> He was called Kenneth or Keagan (I can't quite remember) McConaugh (give or take spelling)
18:08:36 <itidus21> Sgeo__: so my gp got me to see psychologist who works in the same building. so the guy asks me whats the biggest thing you would like to change or fix or whatever (i forget exact words), and i said something similar to "<Sgeo__> I think I should learn to be more assertive."
18:09:13 <itidus21> whats my point? i understand where you're coming from
18:10:13 <itidus21> but, i am starting to think assertiveness is largely a self help fantasy
18:10:57 <itidus21> well after we talked for a while he recognized that i had anxiety problems
18:12:04 <itidus21> so what he wanted to do was teach me to make informed choices or something like that
18:12:06 <itidus21> blahhhhhh
18:13:33 <Sgeo__> I think she takes personal offense to even the slightest criticism of this thing
18:20:56 <itidus21> i am an extremely unassertive person. but i think the phrase is not as helpful as it purports to be
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18:32:45 <itidus21> http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/1f9/163/8ab/resized/socially-awkward-penguin-meme-generator-talk-to-girl-on-facebook-chat-they-start-typing-proceed-to-delete-everything-you-started-typing-until-they-send-3aee3a.jpg
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18:43:42 <Arc_Koen> I do that all the time
18:43:55 <Arc_Koen> (well I didn't click your link but the description seems pretty straightforward
18:44:14 <Sgeo__> Sometimes I'll Cut what I was going to say
18:44:21 <Sgeo__> To paste it back in after I reply
18:44:35 <Arc_Koen> yes I do that on irc
18:44:59 <Arc_Koen> but facebook had this warning when the other person was typing
18:54:27 <Sgeo__> Bluh
18:54:35 <Sgeo__> How does New York law define "resident"?
18:57:47 <Sgeo__> As in, resident of a county
19:01:13 <fizzie> As far as voting is concerned, at least, you "have the right to choose either one [of your multiple 'homes'] as their residence for voting purposes, as long as they have legitimate, significant and continuing attachments to the one they choose".
19:01:37 <fizzie> (I came across this bit in a blog just the other day.)
19:01:56 <fizzie> (For other purposes, I suppose the standard might well be different.)
19:03:53 <Sgeo__> I'm concerned about voting
19:04:17 * Sgeo__ isn't sure about "continuing" at this point
19:04:28 <fizzie> Also I write things I'm sometimes reasonably sure I'm not even going to say, and then down-arrow to leave those in the input buffer, unsaid.
19:04:38 <Sgeo__> Wait, what if the home is technically uninhabitable at this point in time?
19:04:49 <Arc_Koen> "I haven't set foot in my parents' house for decades, but I feel attached to it"
19:05:25 <Arc_Koen> I guess as long as a judge doesn't accuse you of treachery you're fine
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19:40:19 <oerjan> `addquote <itidus21> and all this time I thought we were talking about postmodern analysis of junk mail delivery methods and simulations of elephant breeding patterns
19:40:30 <HackEgo> 863) <itidus21> and all this time I thought we were talking about postmodern analysis of junk mail delivery methods and simulations of elephant breeding patterns
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19:45:00 <shachaf> simulator alligator!
19:45:46 <oerjan> Vi har ingen elediller eller krokofanter, men vi har en grevling i taket!
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19:52:27 <atriq> Phantom__Hoover, going back to the other day, is your name pronounced "Pheentome"?
19:52:37 <Phantom__Hoover> it is not
19:53:01 <Phantom__Hoover> also i am now in your 'eng' 'land' it is an odd place
19:53:08 <atriq> Which bit?
19:53:15 <Phantom__Hoover> my first thought was "aaaaaagh my eyes i should've brought shades"
19:53:17 <Phantom__Hoover> coventry
19:53:25 <atriq> A weird place indeed
19:53:32 <atriq> What are you doing in Coventry?
19:53:46 <Phantom__Hoover> being at university
19:53:51 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: oh that must have been the daystar!
19:53:53 <Phantom__Hoover> i should probably get some shades
19:53:59 <atriq> Get pointy anime one
19:54:00 <atriq> s
19:54:24 <Phantom__Hoover> no because someone might read either homestuck or the thing homestuck got that off and then they would be insufferabl
19:54:27 <Phantom__Hoover> *insufferable
19:54:39 <Phantom__Hoover> oerjan, do you have that in norway
19:55:20 <Phantom__Hoover> sometimes i see it lurking near the horizon when there's a parting in the clouds, its wan light a chilling warning
19:55:21 <oerjan> in the summer, yes
19:55:27 <Phantom__Hoover> or a warming warning
19:55:29 <Phantom__Hoover> i guess
19:58:53 <atriq> If you get confronted just say you got them because you thought they looked call
19:59:06 <atriq> And then they say they want you to watch TTGL
19:59:11 <atriq> To which you say "piss offQ"
19:59:15 <atriq> With the Q
19:59:16 <atriq> That's important
19:59:20 <atriq> And totally not a typo
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20:02:08 <Sgeo__> Is it wrong to feel sad that someone who is a bit too easily offended on others' behalves defriended me?
20:03:01 <Arc_Koen> yes
20:03:05 <Arc_Koen> I mean no
20:03:21 <Arc_Koen> though that probably depends on what you mean by "defriended"
20:03:26 <atriq> Maybe! I don't know!
20:03:27 <atriq> Aaaah!
20:03:33 <atriq> Stop asking me these questions!
20:05:19 <oerjan> atriq: how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
20:05:47 <atriq> A woodchuck wouldn't chuck any wood because a woodchuck wouldn't chuck wood!
20:05:51 <Arc_Koen> I had a good friend with whom I went hiking on many occasions... last time we started together... and at some point we split and got home separately. that was more than three months ago and he won't talk to me... HE EVEN REFUSED TO DRINK A BEER I OFFERED which is probably the silliest thing ever to refuse!!
20:06:17 <atriq> And he's hanging out with all his teetotal friends
20:06:55 <Arc_Koen> so I was thinking maybe I should wait till christmas and buy him a present or something
20:07:08 <atriq> You could just buy him a present
20:07:20 <atriq> Wrap it up nice
20:07:23 <atriq> And when he asks why
20:07:28 <atriq> Say it's because you miss him
20:07:52 <Arc_Koen> weird thing is, I still see him every now and then at the local game of go club - he's someone who jokes a lot, and last time he made a lot of joke about the game I was in the middle of, so we laughed together, yet he still won't talk to me
20:09:14 <Arc_Koen> (btw, thank you so much to OberoN, I kept trying to find what stack-based language I was thinking about all the time, and it turns out to be Ozone.)
20:09:34 <atriq> brb
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20:26:59 <FireFly> oerjan: a woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could if a woodchuck would chuck wood, I guess
20:27:25 <atriq> Anyway
20:27:33 * oerjan swats FireFly -----###
20:27:38 <oerjan> RIDICULOUS
20:27:46 <atriq> Is it wrong to feel absolutely terrified because someone fancies you?
20:28:41 <itidus21> atriq: its actually surprisingly right
20:29:16 <itidus21> its one of those feelings normal people have
20:29:25 <atriq> Oh, that's relieving
20:29:28 <atriq> How do I make it stop
20:29:49 <itidus21> actually what the hell am i saying.. is the terror due to a lack of reciprocal feelings?
20:29:59 <atriq> Yes
20:30:04 <atriq> And no clue how to proceed
20:30:40 <oerjan> it's ok just find a good place to hide the body
20:32:45 <itidus21> atriq: i think that... my brain wants to think about legend of zelda.. but...
20:32:58 <itidus21> it's likely that she will get over you
20:33:11 <itidus21> she won't be as hurt by not having you as you anticipate
20:33:44 <itidus21> ahh so i say.. but in another chatroom i am in is a guy terrified by a female stalker
20:34:12 <atriq> Is he my future self?
20:35:29 <itidus21> this guy talking to some random female who joined chatroom and says "Well, as long as this isn't karissa in disguise."
20:36:11 <itidus21> but its not so much paranoia because she does indeed go there looking for him
20:38:55 <itidus21> no woman has ever truely fancied me. i don't know what it's like
20:40:47 <atriq> Imagine a female, English Gregor who is really creepy
20:40:58 <atriq> And a few years younger
20:43:00 <oerjan> ...does this include the fashion sense?
20:43:12 <atriq> Only to the extent of hats
20:43:41 <atriq> I have not seen her wearing objects similar to the PANTS OF NARCISSUS
20:44:44 <itidus21> i'd say your best option is to just do nothing... and curse your brain for doing this to you
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20:48:07 <atriq> Phantom__Hoover, advise!
20:48:26 <Phantom__Hoover> about what
20:48:33 <atriq> This!
20:48:37 <atriq> Without reading the logs!
20:48:41 <atriq> Just advise!
20:49:00 <atriq> Blindly and naively!
20:49:17 <atriq> "Only the most ignorant may be truly wise."
20:49:24 <Phantom__Hoover> sry i read logs
20:50:10 <Phantom__Hoover> hmm
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20:50:13 <Phantom__Hoover> ok just think
20:50:18 <Phantom__Hoover> 'if gregor fancied me'
20:50:24 <Phantom__Hoover> 'what would scare him off'
20:50:30 <atriq> Hmm
20:50:35 <Phantom__Hoover> Gregor, any tips for atriq?
20:50:42 <atriq> This reminds me of a quote
20:50:42 <zzo38> Do you think this is good ideas? http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php?title=User:Zzo38/DotFami&curid=818&diff=4701&oldid=4608
20:50:49 <atriq> `quote fall in love
20:50:53 <HackEgo> 604) <Ngevd> Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love \ 625) <HackEgo> 678) <Ngevd> Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love <HackEgo> 187) <alise> Gregor: You should never have got her pregnant. <Gregor> what whaaaaaaaaaaaat
20:51:22 <Phantom__Hoover> ok
20:51:34 <Phantom__Hoover> tell her you should never have got her pregnant
20:51:53 <atriq> Something tells me that may not work
20:52:10 <Phantom__Hoover> you must seed the seeds of doubt
20:52:39 <Phantom__Hoover> did i get her pregnant? did i not? who am i anyway? the pronouns of this situation are so ambiguous!
20:52:47 <Phantom__Hoover> who do i fancy anyway? i think it's gregor
20:53:00 <itidus21> atriq: ok i have a theory
20:53:07 <oerjan> oh no
20:53:10 <Phantom__Hoover> she flies to purdue, gets eaten by its giant mutant poultry, everyone else lives happily ever after
20:54:33 <oerjan> Phantom__Hoover: is that the "chicken out" solution?
20:54:40 <Phantom__Hoover> yes
20:54:41 <Phantom__Hoover> yes it is
20:54:52 <itidus21> in seinfeld, george tried various attempts to escape susan
20:55:33 <Phantom__Hoover> wow i'm getting adverts on gmail for greenwich college
20:56:14 <oerjan> itidus21: http://lesswrong.com/lw/k9/the_logical_fallacy_of_generalization_from/
20:56:21 <atriq> I think we're all missing the point
20:56:27 <oerjan> seemed relevant
20:56:32 <atriq> I have a remote control helicopter
20:57:25 <atriq> And 3D glasses
20:57:36 <Phantom__Hoover> no atriq
20:57:45 <Phantom__Hoover> she'll think you're stalking her and feel flattered
20:57:47 <itidus21> thanks oerjan
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21:02:58 <itidus21> atriq: its almost impossible to end up in a relationship with a woman without actually wanting it. so your actual fears are irrational
21:04:03 <Arc_Koen> hmmm are you sure of that?
21:04:10 <Arc_Koen> what about if your parents forced you to marry her
21:04:19 <itidus21> oh humm
21:04:36 <Arc_Koen> I'm not familiar with that kind of situation but I'm assuming you would have to get in some sort of relationship with her
21:04:59 <itidus21> yeah that would suck
21:05:30 <Arc_Koen> or what if she's blackmailing you
21:06:44 <itidus21> hmmmmm.... ok ok .. logically it is possible to be forced into a relationship with a woman without wanting it
21:07:18 <Arc_Koen> that's not even unlikely - she could be your colleague
21:07:48 <Arc_Koen> well I don't know how close you need to be to be called "in a relationship", but if you have to spend 8 hours a day working with her...
21:07:48 <Phantom__Hoover> what, and you're vulcanologists
21:08:30 <Arc_Koen> Phantom__Hoover: problem is, she's probably not aware the floor is lava, so it'd be very hard for you to escape but very easy for her to follow you
21:08:50 <Phantom__Hoover> pretty shitty vulcanologist then
21:09:31 <Arc_Koen> and I ask you, WHO would want to be in a relationship with a girl who refuses to acknowledge that the floor is lava??
21:10:49 <oerjan> hey it'll be a short relationship, anyway
21:10:56 <Phantom__Hoover> not all of us demand vulcanology in a partner
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21:12:18 <Toni_Funchal> hello
21:12:37 <Toni_Funchal> is there someone to talk?
21:12:54 <oerjan> `welcome Toni_Funchal
21:12:57 <HackEgo> Toni_Funchal: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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21:13:08 <Arc_Koen> hum
21:15:22 <shachaf> kmc: http://blog.cmpxchg8b.com/2012/09/fun-with-constrained-programming.html
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21:20:44 <Arc_Koen> isn't there something called "constraint programming"? "constrained programming" sounds more like an oulipo thing
21:21:04 <Arc_Koen> (like making palindrome programs)
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21:21:54 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: Toni_Fuchal could have soon become an esolang enthusiast and prove eodermdrome tc within two monthes
21:22:15 <Arc_Koen> but no you had to be 0.1 second too late on the `welcome command!
21:22:19 <oerjan> i already proved eodermdrome tc, thank you very much
21:22:24 <Arc_Koen> oh
21:22:39 <Arc_Koen> well then who needs Toni_Fuchal
21:23:16 <oerjan> now we just need someone to implement it so the proof can be tested
21:23:33 <Arc_Koen> (btw, I knew that! I just momentarily forgot it!)
21:23:52 <oerjan> suuuuure
21:24:32 <oerjan> i was going to write something but the housemate started coughing
21:24:46 <Arc_Koen> I swear, that "A version including ascii drawing of relevant subgraphs" sentence sounds very very familiar
21:25:38 <Phantom__Hoover> perhaps you saw it last time you read the article
21:25:44 <oerjan> Arc_Koen, now accusing me of plagiarism!
21:26:15 <Arc_Koen> am not! please believe what Phantom__Hoover says
21:26:59 <Phantom__Hoover> always believe what Phantom__Hoover says
21:27:00 <Phantom__Hoover> give in
21:27:29 <oerjan> i'm sorry, but i cannot trust a known hatheist
21:27:42 <kmc> shachaf: nice
21:28:16 <Phantom__Hoover> oerjan, you can't prove a damn thing!
21:28:28 <nortti> oerjan: what is hatheist?
21:28:41 <Phantom__Hoover> ah, the hatheist
21:28:49 <Phantom__Hoover> my greatest work... never to be
21:29:42 <nortti> oerjan: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Hatheist lists two kinds of hatheists
21:30:33 <oerjan> nortti: this refers to neither, although it may be a subset of both
21:30:45 <nortti> ok
21:31:42 <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
21:32:05 <Phantom__Hoover> the pope is on a tour of the uk, and is passing through edinburgh for some reason
21:32:42 <Phantom__Hoover> a moment of gregorian fancy siezes me and i can think only of his hat, and how i long to have it for my own
21:32:49 <Phantom__Hoover> so begins and ends operation hatheist
21:33:42 <Phantom__Hoover> had it gone according to plan i would have at least two pope hats in my possession, along with finally getting excommunicated from the church
21:33:54 <oerjan> `addquote <hantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
21:33:57 <HackEgo> 864) <hantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
21:34:00 <oerjan> oops
21:34:02 <oerjan> `revert
21:34:05 <HackEgo> Done.
21:34:15 <oerjan> `addquote <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
21:34:18 <HackEgo> 864) <Phantom__Hoover> the scene: it is a warm summer's day in scotland, although one obscured by cloud and the fact that it is september
21:37:31 <atriq> I was going to say I can't be excommunicated but then I remembered I can be excommunicated
21:41:26 <atriq> :(
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21:43:27 <oerjan> with latae sententiae, you already may be!
21:45:04 <oerjan> "a person who uses physical force against the Pope;"
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21:52:17 <itidus21> atriq: are you the object of gregorian fancy?
21:52:44 <atriq> I'm the object of the alternate universe gregorian fancy
21:53:03 <itidus21> the gregor of hexham
22:05:23 <nortti> someone at #jollamobile got a great idea. build a bomb shelter out of nokia 3310s
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22:12:00 <fizzie> I had a 3110 a long time, and was therefore envious of friends with 5110s or 6110s: they had Snake (or whatever it was called), and infrared.
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22:27:43 <Phantom__Hoover> fizzie, i remember when my parents had 3110s
22:28:42 <nortti> I use 3110 currently
22:29:07 <Phantom__Hoover> my dad always called it a noikia no matter how many times i corrected him
22:29:14 <nortti> :P
22:29:41 <nortti> I should build a phone and label it NOIKIA
22:30:31 <Phantom__Hoover> they upgraded to something new but i don't seem to be able to find it
22:30:34 <atriq> Sounds like protesting against affordable furniture
22:30:40 <atriq> Except that would be NOIKEA
22:30:55 <Phantom__Hoover> it didn't have an arial and it had an ir thing on the top
22:31:36 <Phantom__Hoover> actually come to think of it they mustn't've had 3110s because i distinctly remember playing snake on those and being like "omg this is the next generation" when i played snake on their new phones
22:31:46 * Arc_Koen adds "build my own phone" to the list of things to do at some point in his life
22:31:53 <itidus21> nvxvba forang!
22:32:25 <nortti> Arc_Koen: how long is that list?
22:33:01 <Arc_Koen> I think it is very long, but I have never put it on paper and I can never remember more than three items at a time so one could say it is never longer than three items
22:33:18 <Arc_Koen> however I do recall that it involves a lot of building stuff
22:33:23 <quintopia> i remember playing snake on my dad's black and white motorola "flip" phone way back when
22:33:38 <nortti> why "flip"?
22:33:45 * itidus21 adds "dispose of to-do list before everything on it has been done" to his to-do list
22:33:48 <Phantom__Hoover> i remember my first and current until yesterday phone being one of those
22:33:55 <Phantom__Hoover> i was awestruck by it when i got it too
22:34:02 <Phantom__Hoover> although i was disappointed at the lack of snake
22:34:10 <Arc_Koen> itidus21: but then if you do complete it a paradox will happen!!
22:34:23 <quintopia> because it didn't fold in half the microphone flipped down in a thin plastic thing that came only halfway up it, and the rest was in the main body of the phone
22:34:24 <Arc_Koen> anyway, bye
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22:36:44 <zzo38> One thing I wanted to do some day is make up a Famicom hardware clone with 60-pins, Famicom expansion port, NES controller ports, with an extra pin on second port (detached from the others so that you can connect devices that don't have it) used for microphone, and internal ROM which is activated when no cartridge is inserted.
22:38:09 <zzo38> And then it come with: player 1 controller, player 2 controller (including microphone and SELECT and START button), keyboard, 72-to-60 adapter, manual for programming it, and a cartridge to program with your own software to test it.
22:38:39 <nortti> I'd buy that
22:39:17 <Phantom__Hoover> one day i will (not) build a mechanical game of life cell and waste away staring at its beauty
22:39:42 <quintopia> zzo38: so you can play famicom with new controllers?
22:39:57 <quintopia> *nes
22:40:15 <zzo38> I would buy that too. So, if I ever make that, I wil tell you, so that you can buy it too.
22:40:39 <nortti> Phantom__Hoover: how is mechanical game of life created?
22:40:57 <Phantom__Hoover> idk, cogs and stuff
22:41:22 <zzo38> quintopia: One reason for having this is so that you can replace the controllers; the protocol is the same except the microphone (which is why I want to add an extra pin to the second port).
22:41:46 <nortti> electromechanical would be pretty easy but completely mechanical seems pretty hard
22:42:12 <quintopia> a watchmaker could do it
22:42:44 <zzo38> The microphone is read on the first port even though it is on the second controller, the extra pin on the second port is actually connected internally to the first register.
22:52:27 <coppro> ugh
22:52:32 <coppro> this proof involves sets of sets of sets
22:55:39 <Phantom__Hoover> pretty tame
22:56:08 <atriq> Can a set contain itself?
23:01:13 <quintopia> the null set contains itself
23:01:40 <coppro> atriq: no
23:01:43 <quintopia> well
23:01:45 <coppro> atriq: thankfully
23:01:45 <quintopia> not really
23:02:06 <coppro> I am proving that every infinite subset has two disjoint subsets that are equinumerous to the original set
23:02:10 <quintopia> but the null set is the flattening of the set containing the null set
23:03:06 <quintopia> could we not define a set that contains only one set which is itself?
23:05:18 <quintopia> "Zermelo-Frankel set theory does not allow such sets due to the Axiom of Foundation/Regularity. There are non well-founded set theories, which typically replace the Axiom of Foundation with some statement that implies the negation of foundation. The Anti-Foundation Axiom comes to mind.
23:05:27 <atriq> Goodnight!
23:05:28 <quintopia> Perhaps the simplest example of a non well-founded set is [the thing i just described]"
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23:30:00 <oerjan> @tell atriq <atriq> Can a set contain itself? <-- NO FAIR ASKING SUCH QUESTIONS JUST BEFOR QUITTING. Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom_of_regularity
23:30:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:30:16 <oerjan> @tell atriq *+E
23:30:16 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:32:22 <oerjan> <coppro> I am proving that every infinite subset has two disjoint subsets that are equinumerous to the original set <-- how does that involve sets of sets of sets?
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23:45:37 <oerjan> eek, the evil car is back
23:45:40 <tswett> In ZFC, no set contains itself. You can create a "definition" of such a set, but your "definition" won't actually define anything.
23:46:43 <oerjan> @tell atriq Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-well-founded_set_theory
23:46:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:53:13 <augur> lambdabot: > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ abs (complement (m .&. n)) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in intercalate "\n" $ map (concat . map (\n -> if 1 == n then "X" else " ")) mns
23:53:21 <augur> whoops :D
23:53:26 <coppro> oerjan: The suggested method, which I am using, involves breaking the set into infinite countable subsets, with Zorn's lemma. Thus I am working on the collection of all sets of countable subsets of X.
23:53:27 <augur> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ abs (complement (m .&. n)) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in intercalate "\n" $ map (concat . map (\n -> if 1 == n then "X" else " ")) mns
23:53:29 <lambdabot> "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX\nX X X X X X X X \nXX XX XX XX \nX X X X \nXX...
23:53:32 <augur> noooo
23:53:38 <augur> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ abs (complement (m .&. n)) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in text $ intercalate "\n" $ map (concat . map (\n -> if 1 == n then "X" else " ")) mns
23:53:40 <lambdabot> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
23:53:40 <lambdabot> X X X X X X X X
23:53:41 <lambdabot> XX XX XX XX
23:53:41 <lambdabot> X X X X
23:53:41 <lambdabot> XXX...
23:54:04 <FreeFull> Sierpinski triangle :D
23:54:07 <FreeFull> Do one with /\
23:54:24 <augur> with what
23:55:21 <oerjan> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ abs (complement (m .&. n)) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in text . reverse $ intercalate "\n" $ map (concat . map (\n -> if 1 == n then "X" else " ")) mns
23:55:23 <lambdabot> X
23:55:23 <lambdabot> XX
23:55:23 <lambdabot> X X
23:55:23 <lambdabot> XXXX
23:55:23 <lambdabot> ...
23:57:16 <augur> isnt it cool tho?
23:57:35 <augur> its just nand of NxN
23:58:16 <oerjan> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ abs (complement (m .&. n)) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in text . reverse . unlines $ map (map (" X" !!)) mns
23:58:18 <lambdabot> *Exception: Prelude.(!!): index too large
23:58:23 <oerjan> oops
23:58:57 <oerjan> :t complement
23:58:58 <lambdabot> forall a. (Bits a) => a -> a
23:59:38 <oerjan> why are there indices other than 0 and 1 in there...
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