←2012-09-29 2012-09-30 2012-10-01→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:01:45 -!- constant has changed nick to trout.
00:02:32 <augur> oerjan: ?
00:02:41 <oerjan> i see it now
00:03:05 <augur> actually its (1 ==) . nand
00:03:12 <oerjan> why the abs?
00:03:53 <augur> because Int is signed, so if you flip all the bits, you flip the sign
00:03:54 <oerjan> hm...
00:04:07 <oerjan> yes but...
00:04:20 <augur> yes but?
00:04:39 <oerjan> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ abs (complement (m .&. n)) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in text . reverse \$ intercalate "\n" \$ map (concat . map (\n -> case n of 1 -> "X"; -1 -> "Y"; _ -> " ")) mns
00:04:41 <lambdabot> X
00:04:41 <lambdabot> XX
00:04:41 <lambdabot> X X
00:04:41 <lambdabot> XXXX
00:04:41 <lambdabot> ...
00:04:48 <oerjan> er
00:04:56 <oerjan> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ complement (m .&. n) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in text . reverse \$ intercalate "\n" \$ map (concat . map (\n -> case n of 1 -> "X"; -1 -> "Y"; _ -> " ")) mns
00:04:58 <lambdabot> Y
00:04:58 <lambdabot> YY
00:04:58 <lambdabot> Y Y
00:04:58 <lambdabot> YYYY
00:04:58 <lambdabot> ...
00:05:17 <oerjan> ok no apparent 1's...
00:06:14 <oerjan> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ complement (m .&. n) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in 'X' `elem` (concat \$ intercalate "\n" \$ map (concat . map (\n -> case n of 1 -> "X"; -1 -> "Y"; _ -> " ")) mns)
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00:06:16 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[a]'
00:06:16 <lambdabot> against inferred type `GHC.Types...
00:07:00 <oerjan> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ complement (m .&. n) | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in 'X' `elem` (intercalate "\n" \$ map (concat . map (\n -> case n of 1 -> "X"; -1 -> "Y"; _ -> " ")) mns)
00:07:02 <lambdabot> False
00:07:07 <oerjan> ok there are none
00:07:23 <augur> oerjan: there couldnt be any
00:07:34 <augur> n > 0 has initial 0 in the bits
00:08:09 <augur> anyway
00:08:10 <augur> point is
00:08:15 <augur> how cool is that
00:08:25 <augur> (1 ==) . nand gets you sierpinski's triangle
00:08:38 <augur> check out The Philosophical Computer
00:08:52 <oerjan> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ m .&. n | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in text \$ intercalate "\n" \$ map (concat . map (\n -> case n of 0 -> "X"; _ -> " ")) mns
00:08:54 <lambdabot> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
00:08:54 <lambdabot> X X X X X X X X
00:08:54 <lambdabot> XX XX XX XX
00:08:54 <lambdabot> X X X X
00:08:54 <lambdabot> XXX...
00:10:04 <oerjan> bit simpler
00:12:14 <oerjan> > let k = 15 ; mns :: [[Int]] ; mns = [ [ m .&. n | m <- [0..k] ] | n <- [0..k] ] in text \$ intercalate "\n " \$ map (map (\n -> case n of 0 -> 'X'; _ -> ' ')) mns
00:12:16 <lambdabot> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
00:12:16 <lambdabot> X X X X X X X X
00:12:16 <lambdabot> XX XX XX XX
00:12:16 <lambdabot> X X X X
00:12:16 <lambdabot> ...
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00:14:30 <augur> is that (0 ==) . and
00:14:31 <augur> ?
00:14:38 <oerjan> yep
00:14:44 <augur> interesting
00:14:50 <augur> well it makes sense
00:14:50 <augur> but
00:15:24 <augur> the really interesting thing is that these are the nand/and tautologies/contradictions for all propositions
00:18:47 <oerjan> mhm
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00:21:05 <tswett> I wonder. In NFU, is there a function f whose domain is the set of all non-empty sets, and whose image is the set of all singleton sets, such that for all non-empty sets S, f(S) is a subset of S?
00:22:39 * oerjan vaguely recall new foundations is incompatible with axiom of choice
00:22:42 <oerjan> *+s
00:22:48 <tswett> oerjan: NFU *has* the axiom of choice.
00:23:13 <coppro> ah, fuck
00:23:30 <tswett> So yeah, there is. Consider the set P = { { (S, {x}), x in S}, S is non-empty }. P is a set of pairwise disjoint non-empty sets.
00:24:33 <tswett> Therefore, there is a set C, called a choice set from P, which contains exactly one element of each element of P. In other words, for all non-empty sets S, C contains a pair of the form (S, {x}), where x is in S.
00:24:48 <tswett> So C is the "universal choice function" we're after.
00:25:34 <coppro> tswett: wikipedia says that it disproves choice
00:25:48 <tswett> coppro: Wikipedia says that NFU disproves choice?
00:26:40 <coppro> tswett: yes, because there is no function x \mapsto {x}
00:26:47 <coppro> this is required to avoid Cantor's Paradox
00:26:54 <oerjan> "Much of this entry discusses NFU, an important variant of NF due to Jensen (1969) and exposited in Holmes (1998)."
00:27:15 <oerjan> and then wikipedia proceeds not to define NFU properly...
00:27:38 <coppro> yeah :/
00:28:11 <coppro> ah wait
00:28:18 <tswett> coppro: I guess I can believe that NFU disproves one *formulation* of the axiom of choice.
00:28:20 <coppro> NF disproves choice, but NFU is not a strict superset
00:28:23 <coppro> of NF
00:28:29 <tswett> Right.
00:28:33 <coppro> ok
00:28:35 <coppro> carry on
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00:29:00 <tswett> Now I wonder if we can go the other way: given this universal choice function, can we prove the axiom of choice?
00:29:42 <tswett> For all non-empty S, let f(S) be a singleton subset of S. Is it true that "for each set P of pairwise disjoint non-empty sets, there is a set C, called a choice set from P, which contains exactly one element of each element of P"?
00:30:15 <tswett> If I'm not mistaken, the answer is yes: let C be the union of f(T) for all T in P.
00:39:09 <tswett> It really seems like given stratified comprehension as an axiom, NFU has very few other axioms.
00:39:40 <tswett> There are probably a couple of axioms so "obvious" I've completely forgotten them, like extensionality.
00:40:22 <tswett> But given that stratified comprehension is the "basic" axiom and the ones I've forgotten are "obvious" axioms, the only axiom I've seen so far that is neither basic nor obvious is the axiom of choice.
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00:45:54 <oerjan> well comprehension, extensionality and choice are afair the only axioms of naive set theory
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00:46:11 <tswett> I wasn't aware that naive set theory had choice as an axiom.
00:46:56 <oerjan> well you cannot obviously deduce it (without going through the actual inconsistencies :P)
00:47:20 <tswett> Aha, here's another neither-basic-nor-obvious axiom.
00:48:05 <tswett> If n is a natural number, let S be a set of cardinality n, and let 1 -> S be the set of all singleton subsets of S.
00:48:11 <tswett> Then n = |S| = |1 -> S|.
00:48:28 <tswett> The n = |S| part is obvious, of course, but |S| = |1 -> S| is not.
00:49:31 <tswett> Can this axiom also be expressed as the existence of a function? Yeah, I think so.
00:50:10 <tswett> It's the function { (x, {x}), x is a natural number }, isn't it?
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00:53:19 * coppro loves Zorn's lemma
00:55:36 * quintopia eats zorn's lemon
00:58:11 * oerjan peels a bananach algebra
00:58:43 <tswett> One more NBNO axiom. The Axiom of Small Ordinals: "For any sentence phi in the language of set theory, there is a set S such that for all x, x is a small ordinal such that phi iff (x in A and x is a small ordinal)."
00:58:47 <tswett> ...what?
01:02:11 <tswett> Okay. If phi is a statement about small ordinals, then there is a set A such that each small ordinal is in A if and only if it satisfies phi.
01:05:47 <oerjan> OKAY
01:10:17 <tswett> Looks like there's exactly one NBNO axiom remaining, the Axiom of Large Ordinals.
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02:46:49 <tswett> help my brain
02:48:24 <olsner> how can we help it?
02:48:41 <tswett> haealp
02:48:45 <zzo38> tswett: In what way? What help?
02:49:17 <tswett> Okay, so Forsome takes [S], a box of a type. That type is S. It then takes f, a function taking a box of an S, and returning a type. It finally returns a box of a type.
02:49:32 <tswett> The type of Forsome is an expression involving Forsome.
02:50:13 <tswett> Its first argument is [Box [Type]], which is a box of type, and also is the expression for the phrase "a box of a type".
02:50:52 <itidus21> <oerjan> itidus21: http://lesswrong.com/lw/k9/the_logical_fallacy_of_generalization_from/ <-- the thing to remember though is that inspite of what is true and what isn't, science keeps developing more and more dangerous things, due to it's unwitting constant participation in arms races
02:50:56 <tswett> It then takes f, a function taking a box of an S, and returning a type. What is "an S"? Well, S = Box [Type], so "an S" is a box of a type.
02:51:17 <itidus21> admittedly i haven't read the article itself yet, and it's not necessarily denying that
02:51:19 <tswett> So f (here) is a function taking a box of a box of a type, and returning a type.
02:53:01 <tswett> What is f? It's the function taking [[S]] (a box of a box of a type) and returning the type "a function taking a box of an S, and returning a type" (a type).
02:53:28 <kmc> describing types in english is so cumbersome, if only someone had invented a concise symbolic syntax for them
02:54:02 <tswett> And modified the human brain to make that symbolic syntax as easy to understand as English, in all cases.
02:54:10 <zzo38> What is a box of a type?
02:54:33 <kmc> yeah because the english sentences one produces this way are so easy to understand
02:54:36 <tswett> zzo38: for all type S, a "box of an S" is a one-element set whose element is an S.
02:56:20 <tswett> The distinction is important in NFU.
02:56:35 <zzo38> I still do not understand very well.
02:56:50 <tswett> Well, I haven't given you any of the context.
02:56:58 <zzo38> OK
02:57:07 <zzo38> I suppose that is why
03:05:07 <itidus21> hello log reader! i know that theres plenty of things wrong with what i'm saying. i haven't been awake very long and i had some kind of nightmare.
03:05:39 <zzo38> What kind of nightmare? The kind of nightmare with plenty of things wrong with what you are saying?
03:09:15 <itidus21> the one where i'm in an alternate universe where haskell curry joined the circus, and all of programming was affected
03:09:30 <tswett> itidus21: that was my fault. I'm sorry.
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03:13:07 <itidus21> nah it was the one where marty mcfly travels to a future which is dominated by something more exciting than the internet
03:13:26 <itidus21> ^world wide web sorry
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03:18:15 <itidus21> or being chased through a kafkaesque maze by a female gregor
03:18:41 <Gregor> I've had some REALLY interesting mentions on this channel of late >_>
03:18:49 <Gregor> I hope female me has hair as fabulous as male me.
03:19:53 <pikhq> One hopes.
03:20:26 <itidus21> somehow i think she dresses like tom baker
03:20:34 <itidus21> even though you don't
03:20:54 <itidus21> ^i think
03:22:03 <kmc> is there something like http://subterfugue.org/ but working on modern linux
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03:42:45 <kmc> there is https://github.com/dustin/labrea which is a bit different, but also very cool
03:50:23 <zzo38> I made the Ptolemaic just intonation to work with Famicom with the exact ratios in all octaves (if using equal temperament, you get approximate ratios which are less precise in higher octaves).
03:59:21 <Jafet> Cue ominous choral music
04:13:24 <zzo38> What ominous choral music?
04:48:33 <pikhq> "行今if君欲it、an他界a待s君。為不君呉上onit、君噛the手that餌s君。" Okay, English written with Chinese characters is really silly looking.
04:51:30 <pikhq> "行 今 if 君 欲 it、an 他界 a待s 君。為不 君 呉 上 on it、君 噛 the 手 that 餌s 君。"
04:51:35 <pikhq> And only slightly less strange space'd
04:52:24 <kmc> what does it say?
04:52:40 <kmc> google translate gives pinyin but i can't read it as english
04:53:04 <pikhq> "Go now if you want it, an otherworld awaits you. Don't you give up on it, you bite the hand that feeds you." First couple lines of "Otherworld", from the FFX soundtrack.
04:53:09 <pikhq> Random boredom.
04:53:15 <kmc> heh, that song!
04:53:27 <kmc> i haven't thought about that song in, like, 10 years
04:53:29 <kmc> pretty good one though
04:53:40 <pikhq> Kinda partial to Uematsu music.
04:53:43 <pikhq> :)
04:53:47 <kmc> i wonder if english written with arabic alphabet works ok
04:54:06 <kmc> you can do so many cool things with arabic letters, typographically / calligraphically speaking
04:54:45 <pikhq> If it weren't for the random has-to-be-alphabetic bits, English in Chinese characters basically works. Except, of course, you really need to know your characters to do it.
04:55:11 <pikhq> Like, that whole phrase only repeats 君...
05:02:29 <kmc> naming stuff is hard
05:02:34 <kmc> what is a good way to name things
05:03:13 <zzo38> Throw the Scrabble tiles on the floor, whichever ones land face up, mixed up their order and use that as their name.
05:03:32 <shachaf> @fresh
05:03:32 <lambdabot> Hahr
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06:01:54 <zzo38> I made up Famicom Hangman it works so far! Only things left to add is tme limit and 7166 more phrases (I already have 514).
06:02:48 <shachaf> kmc: Some people name programs after Italian foods.
06:03:25 <zzo38> I suppose that is one way.
06:11:52 <zzo38> If you have phrases (single words is also OK) to add to Famicom Hangman you can suggested it. Rules are: Maximum length is 32 (but recommended maximum 30; text is centered and the edge is outside of the NTSC safe area). Letters (all converted to uppercase, although input is case-insensitive), digits, spaces, and some punctuation is allowed: - , . ? ! / & ' "
06:12:08 <zzo38> (nine kinds of punctuation)
06:12:43 <zzo38> (Actually, : and ; are also allowed, making eleven kinds of punctuation)
06:12:59 <zzo38> O, and also parentheses, I forgot that.
06:56:04 <kmc> using chrome element inspector to fix typographical errors in the page i'm reading
07:01:33 <zzo38> Can you tell it to save the changes, though?
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07:25:10 <atriq> I had a dream that I was playing a sidescrolling platformer/shoot-em-up with randomly generated levels
07:25:10 <lambdabot> atriq: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
07:27:21 <monqy> but was it good
07:27:33 <atriq> I wasn't very good at it
07:28:05 <atriq> It had lava and turrets
07:28:09 <atriq> No wait
07:28:14 <atriq> They weren't turrets
07:28:17 <atriq> They were people
07:28:34 <monqy> what does that mean
07:29:07 <monqy> were there people shaped like turrets? did a wizard turn people into turrets?
07:29:29 <atriq> It means they were people who acted like turrets
07:29:35 <atriq> i.e. standing still shooting at me
07:30:04 <atriq> Maybe
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08:34:48 <barts> hi guys
08:35:36 <atriq> Hey
08:35:40 <atriq> `welcome barts
08:35:51 <HackEgo> barts: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
08:37:03 <barts> oh hi
08:37:05 <barts> :)
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09:24:36 <atriq> Why did I think it would be a good idea to port mcmap to Haskell
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09:37:43 <atriq> @ask fizzie If I, in the near future, were to ask you questions regarding the implementation of mcmap, could you easily answer them?
09:37:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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09:40:50 <itidus21> because doing what normal people would consider useless things is highly esoteric
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09:46:13 <itidus21> i think just as images can be stored as lossy and lossless, maybe programs can be stored as lossy and lossless
09:49:41 <itidus21> to be honest i think its the sort of nonsense zzo38 might have a cogent opinion on
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11:16:06 <Arc_Koen> hallo
11:23:03 <lifthrasiir> hi
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11:29:38 <Arc_Koen> ggggh the coffee maker is full of delicious coffee
11:29:43 <Arc_Koen> I love coffee
11:29:51 <Phantom_Hoover> no you don't
11:29:55 <Phantom_Hoover> you are ba
11:29:56 <Phantom_Hoover> d
11:29:56 <Arc_Koen> but if I drink coffee I won't be able to sleep tonight
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11:58:40 <atriq> @messages?
11:58:40 <lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today.
11:58:44 <atriq> Yay!
11:59:11 <ion> @massages
11:59:11 <lambdabot> You don't have any new messages.
12:10:09 <Phantom_Hoover> what the hell
12:10:38 <Phantom_Hoover> the internet connection in these halls has an upstream more than twice as fast as the downstream
12:11:12 <FreeFull> Lol
12:11:42 <atriq> They got the package that says "we're hosting a bunch of websites! Yay"
12:28:46 <Phantom_Hoover> They say you're not allowed t run servers too, it makes no sense
12:29:10 <atriq> How... how do they know if you're running a server?
12:29:15 <atriq> Wait
12:29:24 <atriq> There's loads of ways they can know if you're running a server
12:29:36 <atriq> Maybe Coventry University has an evil plan to take over the world
12:32:51 <atriq> And they're gonna use all the upload speed to take over the internet
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12:33:17 <atriq> The reason this doesn't make sense is because the philosophy department created the plan and nobody can be bothered to shut them up
12:38:12 <Sgeo> Blaxxun. Y U NO EXIST ANYMORE?
13:08:43 <atriq> Wait
13:08:43 <atriq> Hmm
13:08:47 <atriq> What number's opaque?
13:08:51 <atriq> 255?
13:08:51 <atriq> 0?
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13:28:33 <Jafet> If you're not sure, go with 127.5.
13:28:33 <ion> −42
13:34:12 <olsner> in Java, Math.OPAQUE
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14:52:03 <Arc_Koen> wait, is "whitespace" invariable?
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15:51:55 <AnotherTest> Hello
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15:53:11 <AnotherTest> On Wikipedia, programming language pages have this side bar thing which shows some basic but useful information (paradigms, creator, year of creation etc.); maybe we could do this on the esolangs wiki too?
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16:02:48 <AnotherTest> I believe it's called an "info box"
16:13:56 <ion> A couple of photos from the GPS receiver connected to my NTP server. http://imgur.com/a/WtaOp
16:21:22 <lifthrasiir> AnotherTest: maybe bf derivatives should have their own infoboxes.
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16:50:19 <fizzie> "Ultimate GPS Breakout" is kind of an impressive name, I'll give it that.
16:50:20 <lambdabot> fizzie: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
16:50:24 <fizzie> @messages
16:50:24 <lambdabot> atriq asked 7h 12m 41s ago: If I, in the near future, were to ask you questions regarding the implementation of mcmap, could you easily answer them?
16:50:45 <fizzie> @tell atriq That really depends on the questions.
16:50:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:51:00 <fizzie> @tell atriq With a nonzero likelihood, yes, I suppose.
16:51:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:56:23 -!- AnotherTest1 has changed nick to AnotherTest.
16:57:38 <AnotherTest> lifthrasiir: Perhaps that could be a field in the input box? "Derived from:"/"Derivative of:"
16:58:46 <lifthrasiir> ah, I was thinking of mappings from 8 BF primitives to derivative codes
17:03:26 <AnotherTest> *info box
17:05:49 <AnotherTest> Any wiki admins interested in this idea?
17:11:01 <AnotherTest> @ask ais523 On Wikipedia, programming language pages have "info boxes" which show some basic but useful information. Maybe we could do this on the esolangs wiki too? (To give you an idea of the information that the boxes would contain; I was thinking of: paradigms, creator, year of creation, derived from, influenced by, influenced, specification, reference implementation etc.
17:11:02 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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17:42:35 <elliott> lifthrasiir: congratulations on your IOCCC win
17:43:54 <lifthrasiir> elliott: thanks
17:44:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:44:43 <lifthrasiir> I was actually in hurry and ended up with reusing a year old code (very subtly modified though)
17:45:08 <lifthrasiir> so I never thought that it would win
17:45:47 <olsner> which one is yours?
17:46:20 <lifthrasiir> Best short program: Seonghoon Kang - Decodes spelled out numbers
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18:18:36 <ion> Where’s the source?
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19:10:31 <Arc_Koen> zzo38: I wrote down your idea for a "trigger" operator http://esolangs.org/wiki/Kkipple
19:11:43 <Arc_Koen> I also included an "execute" stack which executes its content as Kkipple code when triggered, though I'm not sure it really fits with the rest of the language
19:15:32 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
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19:42:52 <Arc_Koen> also I thought the @ stack could be used not only to ease outputting numbers, but for input as well
19:43:37 <Arc_Koen> so I made it that pushing a number onto it would push the ascii codes of its digits instead, and triggering it would merge the digits inside into a number
19:45:03 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:45:15 <Arc_Koen> problem is, getting digits from input into it is kind of hard, for instance if input is '1', io>@* will actually make the number 49 and not 1
19:46:04 <Arc_Koen> the simplest solution seems to have two different stacks, one for turning digits into a number, and one for turning a number into digits
19:46:30 <Arc_Koen> or maybe only one stack, but triggering it would toggle it between the two roles
19:46:35 <Arc_Koen> hello oerjan
19:46:38 <oerjan> hi
19:47:24 <oerjan> my brain is unlikely to be of help today because the housemate has a cold and is constantly talking in the phone
19:47:33 <oerjan> *one housemate
19:48:55 <oerjan> which means, by synchronicity, that any mathematical chain of thought is 100% likely to be interrupted by unbearable noise.
19:49:33 <zzo38> The close the door
19:49:53 <oerjan> zzo38: the door is closed. the walls are "paper thin".
19:51:04 <Arc_Koen> if you open the door, though, the thinness of the walls won't matter any longer!
19:52:01 <oerjan> i discovered to my surprise the walls actually _do_ stop the other housemate's music, probably because he has no real bass speaker.
19:52:30 <oerjan> well, most of the time.
19:55:13 -!- Slereah has joined.
19:55:16 <Slereah> Hey folks
19:55:38 <oerjan> Slereah: hey you cannot speak, it's untraditional!
19:56:06 <Slereah> Yes, except fuck you
19:56:13 <oerjan> wait a minute, have you been gone? it's hard to tell when you never speak.
19:56:18 <Slereah> Fuck you in the ass with a big rubber dick!
19:56:25 <Slereah> I changed PC
19:56:31 <Slereah> So I had to turn down the IRC for a bit!
19:56:33 <elliott> #esoteric never changes
19:56:35 <elliott> except when it does
19:56:45 <Slereah> War never changes.
19:56:54 <oerjan> Slereah: i have ops and i'm not afraid to ... shutup elliott
19:57:12 <oerjan> hm that was a bit too ambiguous
19:57:22 <elliott> i agree, oerjan should kick chickenzilla
19:57:29 <elliott> fuck that guy
19:57:38 <oerjan> what did he do
19:57:43 <elliott> idk
19:57:45 <elliott> what does anyone do
19:58:07 <oerjan> PLOT AGAINST ME
19:58:08 <Slereah> I mostly drip mucus
19:58:13 <Slereah> Because cold :(
19:58:38 <oerjan> thankfully irc is not a sound-based chat
19:58:52 <oerjan> or else i would soon ban you for coughing
19:59:00 <elliott> COUGH
19:59:03 <elliott> COUGH COUGH COUGH
19:59:05 <elliott> C
19:59:06 <elliott> O
19:59:07 <elliott> U
19:59:07 <elliott> G
19:59:08 <elliott> H
19:59:19 <oerjan> although spamming might also work. sometimes.
19:59:20 <elliott> coff
19:59:22 <Slereah> So anyway
19:59:31 <Slereah> Anything interesting happened in the last two years?
19:59:39 <Slereah> Did you solve the halting problem?
19:59:44 <elliott> guess im gonna die cuz i cant stop coffin
19:59:49 <elliott> : D
19:59:59 <elliott> : D
20:00:03 <elliott> : D
20:00:11 <elliott> :
20:00:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:00:28 <oerjan> poor elliott, coughed is lower jaw off
20:00:32 <oerjan> *his
20:00:46 <elliott> i see that soundnfury guy isn't here. did you chase him away
20:00:48 <zzo38> I added one idea to list of ideas
20:01:30 <oerjan> hm my underload stuff was last year, wasn't it.
20:02:03 <Slereah> So it turns out nobody implemented the languages I was too lazy to implement!
20:02:12 <Slereah> I am disappointed in your lack of doing my own work
20:02:16 <zzo38> My idea is ANSI codes self-modifiable funge.
20:02:31 <oerjan> Slereah: i did prove some things turing complete. also i did implement some languages, probably not yours though.
20:02:37 <elliott> oerjan: is that a yes. come on keep me updated on all the bullshit that happens here
20:03:08 <oerjan> elliott: i haven't noticed soundnfury since last he bitched against haskell or something
20:03:33 <elliott> guys i don't understand haskell
20:03:38 <elliott> it's almost as if it's some kind of esoteric languag elOL
20:03:42 <elliott> joke (c) me 2012
20:03:59 <oerjan> Slereah: elliott took over as wiki admin, we have featured languages now
20:04:09 <oerjan> two of them or so
20:04:09 <elliott> well it depends what you mean by have
20:04:23 <elliott> i note that as a wiki admin you are responsible for updating those, oerjan
20:04:34 <elliott> 08:37:14: <UnknownCharacter> yup, thats it
20:04:34 <elliott> 08:37:51: <UnknownCharacter> any huevos, I think imma let you computer geeks do your stuff
20:04:34 <elliott> 08:37:55: <UnknownCharacter> now
20:04:34 <elliott> 08:38:22: <UnknownCharacter> so long and thanks for listening
20:04:38 <elliott> this log looks good
20:04:57 <elliott> 08:03:07: -!- UnknownCharacter has joined #esoteric.
20:04:57 <elliott> 08:03:17: <UnknownCharacter> i loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
20:04:57 <elliott> 08:06:06: <itidus21> `WELCOME UnknownCharacter
20:04:57 <elliott> 08:06:18: <HackEgo> UNKNOWNCHARACTER: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
20:04:57 <oerjan> also elliott is rarely here, probably because he's spending most of his time in an alternate reality where i am wiki admin.
20:04:58 <elliott> 08:06:55: <UnknownCharacter> i was just passing by
20:04:59 <elliott> 08:07:01: <UnknownCharacter> but thanks for welcoming me
20:05:01 <elliott> 08:07:04: <itidus21> oh its just a bot command
20:05:04 <elliott> 08:07:20: <itidus21> it makes for grandoise welcomings
20:05:05 <elliott> 08:07:23: <UnknownCharacter> well, fuck u then
20:05:07 <elliott> wow good
20:05:26 <elliott> 08:08:02: <itidus21> srory
20:05:27 <elliott> 08:08:05: <itidus21> ^sorry
20:05:27 <elliott> 08:08:15: <UnknownCharacter> im sorry, 2
20:05:27 <elliott> 08:08:32: <UnknownCharacter> let's make out to make up only if u r a hot girl
20:05:29 <elliott> best log ever
20:06:36 <elliott> this is really good
20:06:46 <elliott> 08:19:22: <UnknownCharacter> with the rain covering my tears... i sat down on some stairs leading to a parking lot
20:06:46 <elliott> 08:19:39: <Phantom_Hoover> can you type a bit faster please
20:06:46 <elliott> 08:19:40: <UnknownCharacter> and i wondered why this all happened.
20:06:46 <elliott> 08:19:50: <Phantom_Hoover> i'm getting bored between messages
20:06:46 <elliott> 08:19:58: <UnknownCharacter> dont rush me, emotions cant be rushed
20:07:29 <shachaf> hi are you elliott
20:07:33 <elliott> no
20:07:37 <elliott> 08:25:32: <UnknownCharacter> lol... okay, I didn't kill myself... but i wish i had thought of that.
20:07:47 <shachaf> elliott: hi are you
20:07:55 <elliott> 08:28:11: <itidus21> it does seem that way.. he hasn't made any references to brainfuck, lisp, turing, or haskell
20:08:36 <olsner> *loud
20:08:44 <elliott> yes
20:08:45 <elliott> 08:31:53: <Phantom_Hoover> so... to deal with your suicidal thoughts as a result of a bitter and traumatising breakup, you came to a channel about weird programming languages
20:09:07 <elliott> oh wow
20:09:11 <elliott> 08:32:12: <Phantom_Hoover> couldn't you talk to a psychiatrist, or one of those helplines they have?
20:09:11 <elliott> 08:32:25: <UnknownCharacter> they kinda annoy me
20:09:11 <elliott> 08:32:26: <UnknownCharacter> so no
20:09:11 <elliott> 08:32:47: <UnknownCharacter> plus, im an artist.
20:09:16 <olsner> oh, just like every one else then
20:09:16 <elliott> this is my favourite log ever
20:09:21 <oerjan> olsner: we shall now reenact all the embarassing moments of past weeks
20:09:43 <olsner> the ghosts of logs past, here to haunt us yet again
20:10:34 <elliott> 08:35:58: <itidus21> i wonder if he realizes what this channel is about
20:10:34 <elliott> 08:36:18: <itidus21> i realize it, but i just ignore the purpose of this channel
20:11:48 <Slereah> Guys
20:11:49 <elliott> 12:06:47: <oerjan> you could say that a couple of while loops had their tests reversed.
20:11:52 <elliott> great metaphor oerjan
20:11:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:11:58 <Slereah> Why the sudden flux of copypasta!
20:12:01 <Slereah> Take it easyyyy
20:12:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:12:04 <elliott> because i am visiting
20:12:15 <elliott> rules mean nothing
20:12:21 <Phantom_Hoover> he is a tourist he does not know our ways
20:12:28 <shachaf> `WELCOME elliott
20:12:30 <pikhq> Especially not this one.
20:12:34 <HackEgo> ELLIOTT: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
20:12:37 * pikhq shoves elliott in a pot
20:12:58 <oerjan> <kmc> i wonder if english written with arabic alphabet works ok <-- semitic alphabets (absomethings) only work well for languages that don't put much information into vowels
20:12:59 <FreeFull> `WeLcOmE
20:13:05 <HackEgo> WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
20:13:32 <Arc_Koen> `WELcome
20:13:35 <pikhq> oerjan: Abjads kinda-sorta work for English.
20:13:44 <pikhq> oerjan: 'bjds knd-srt wrk fr 'nglsh
20:13:45 <Arc_Koen> `wElCoMe
20:13:50 <elliott> 13:15:44: <itidus21> half-life 3: the anxiety transferance gun
20:13:50 <elliott> 13:16:58: <itidus21> gabe newell is a cyborg at this point
20:14:33 <Arc_Koen> oh I thought it would find a pattern of uppercase/lowercase in the inputted welcome, and apply it to its welcoming message
20:14:41 <Arc_Koen> that's highly disappointing
20:14:57 <elliott> Arc_Koen: we apologise for the inconvenience
20:15:19 <pikhq> oerjan: 'f crs, thy 'ls rlly sck fr rdng. ' mn, rlly, ths 's *'nsnly* hrd t rd. :)
20:15:34 <olsner> Arc_Koen: I think you're free to add the missing 120 or so variants if you want to
20:16:00 <oerjan> pikhq: and you're cheating on some of the y's too
20:16:20 <oerjan> well i guess abjads do that anyway
20:16:21 <Arc_Koen> olsner: that's definitely not going on my to-do list
20:16:47 <olsner> `w e l c o m e
20:16:50 <HackEgo> 20:16:49 up 0 min, 0 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 \ USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT
20:17:18 <olsner> okay, w already is a command... but it does the wrong thing
20:17:28 <Arc_Koen> let's rewrite it
20:17:51 <zzo38> No, I think you should keep it how it is.
20:17:55 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
20:18:02 <zzo38> Make up w_e_l_c_o_m_e if you want to.
20:18:32 <olsner> I don't want to
20:18:46 <pikhq> oerjan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:18:48 <zzo38> OK, then don't make up any.
20:20:42 <itidus21> one possible but awful solution is to make ` case insensitive but implement ambiguity resolvers for any ambiguous cases
20:20:46 <elliott> Whoa, Dan Weinreb died.
20:20:53 <elliott> Unexpected.
20:21:17 <Phantom_Hoover> who designed the goddamn doors in these halls
20:21:37 <Phantom_Hoover> they're carefully designed to slam, seriously
20:23:48 * itidus21 begins to get an evil grin as i ponder the type case_sensitive_identifier
20:23:56 <itidus21> ^as he ponders
20:27:10 <elliott> oerjan: What are people??????????????????????????????????
20:27:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:27:32 -!- dajfsa has joined.
20:27:35 <dajfsa> i am people
20:27:39 <dajfsa> qq qq q q qq qqqq qqq
20:27:44 <dajfsa> q
20:27:49 <dajfsa> q : )
20:27:52 <dajfsa> q hat
20:28:05 <oerjan> wat.
20:28:36 <zzo38> dajfsa: What is that? Do you have anything real to write?
20:28:41 <dajfsa> oerjan: well dont breathe thuogh. you could die
20:28:47 <dajfsa> zzo38: :( maybe
20:29:06 <dajfsa> i think deadfish should be the new featured language
20:29:13 <dajfsa> mainly b/c i am a dead fish myself
20:29:35 <dajfsa> a dead fish with a fed dish (the dish was fed to the dead fish)
20:30:21 <itidus21> { int_i i = 0; I++; }
20:30:27 <itidus21> it will hurt your eyes
20:30:49 <dajfsa> im crying itidus21. crying. crying tears
20:30:55 <dajfsa> from my eyes
20:31:07 <itidus21> it's incredibly painful to parse
20:31:38 <elliott> Given my longtime wish to see LaTeX on iOS (and past experiments with porting it myself), I was thrilled to see that TeX appears to have finally made it natively to iOS in the form of TeX Notebook. Naturally once the novelty of being able to typeset on my iPad had worn off I started a spot of digital archaeology to find out how this was done - in summary, it appears (though I could be wrong) that the App's typesetter itself is an x86 emulator, wh
20:31:38 <elliott> ich loads a frozen image of MSDOS6+Tex, and the typesetting is done there.
20:32:04 <pikhq> Ludicrous.
20:32:09 <olsner> awesome
20:33:50 <oerjan> i am concluding that dajfsa is _probably_ british. and may be Phantom_Hoover, or otherwise elliott.
20:34:48 <dajfsa> oerjan: im actually bird. from outer space. ISS bird. bird originally from canada
20:34:50 <oerjan> `pastlog dajfsa>
20:34:59 <dajfsa> bird big fan of human rights. i mean birdian rights.
20:35:12 <dajfsa> also, you are hexagon philanthorpist.
20:35:20 <HackEgo> 2012-09-22.txt:12:47:33: <dajfsa> ```
20:35:25 <dajfsa> quack
20:35:33 <oerjan> `pastelogs dajfsa>
20:35:42 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.28948
20:35:52 <oerjan> hm wait
20:35:54 <oerjan> `pastelogs dajfsa
20:36:01 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.17482
20:36:25 <dajfsa> OTOH, maybe oerjan is not actually a person and instead a figment of our imagination.
20:36:28 <dajfsa> OTOH, maybe so are ducks.
20:36:41 <dajfsa> OTOOH I don't have that many hands.
20:38:56 <dajfsa> oerjan: Have you ever heard of video games ?
20:39:18 <oerjan> actually i think elliott is more likely than Phantom_Hoover.
20:39:52 -!- atriq has joined.
20:39:58 <dajfsa> oerjan: Well it is all relative... America is more likely than Greenland, for instance. And yet they both exist. Why is that?
20:40:28 <dajfsa> oerjan: (There is also the matter of ice cream.)
20:40:32 <oerjan> america likely? what a ridiculous idea!
20:40:54 <dajfsa> oerjan: It's about the probability of enunciation. And daggers.
20:40:57 <atriq> @messages?
20:40:57 <lambdabot> atriq: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
20:41:00 <dajfsa> They have daggers in Portland..............
20:41:06 <dajfsa> They have atriq in a museum
20:41:11 <pikhq> Everyone knows people only come from Hexham.
20:41:19 <pikhq> You can't have humans without six pigs.
20:41:37 <dajfsa> There aren't pigs. Let alone six. There are gerbils however
20:41:56 <dajfsa> Actually the real thing I would doubt is that fountains can even survive without water (hence oxygen)
20:42:12 <pikhq> Hexjerboa?
20:42:16 <oerjan> rubbish, there are liquid methane fountains on titan
20:43:09 <dajfsa> oerjan: Um, you're a liquid methane fountain? Come on have a little respect.
20:43:40 <oerjan> no i'm a pun fountain, haven't you noticed?
20:43:51 <dajfsa> Pountain.
20:44:06 <dajfsa> Clowntain (fountain of clowns; like a mountain)
20:45:05 <dajfsa> Heeeeey now..... I didn't order a planet just to get bogged down by wolves who own the sky
20:45:13 <oerjan> yep. although coughing is worse.
20:45:22 <itidus21> mountain clowns have a lot of clowt
20:45:47 <zzo38> What is a "hard line" phone?
20:45:52 <dajfsa> oerjan: Uh , you are not one of the wolves right? I trust business to ferrets
20:46:14 <itidus21> zzo38: wall socket
20:46:38 <zzo38> Someone asked this on BBS Scene global onelinerz
20:46:41 <oerjan> i'm a metal cancer dog, does that count?
20:46:59 <shachaf> > rot13 "oerjan"
20:47:00 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `rot13'
20:47:03 <itidus21> i better double check
20:47:07 <shachaf> @@ @let rot13 = @where rot13
20:47:08 <dajfsa> oerjan: Yes. What is a metal cancer dog ?
20:47:09 <lambdabot> Defined.
20:47:10 <shachaf> > rot13 "oerjan"
20:47:12 <lambdabot> "brewna"
20:47:14 <shachaf> > rot13 "shachaf"
20:47:16 <lambdabot> "funpuns"
20:47:23 <itidus21> :o
20:47:26 <dajfsa> Since when does @let foo = @where bar work?
20:47:38 <dajfsa> And who are anthills anyway
20:48:00 <itidus21> dear god
20:48:15 <oerjan> > rot13 "itidus21"
20:48:17 <lambdabot> "vgvqhf21"
20:48:22 <oerjan> > rot13 "dajfsa"
20:48:24 <lambdabot> "qnwsfn"
20:48:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:48:31 <dajfsa> @where friends
20:48:32 <lambdabot> I know nothing about friends.
20:48:35 <dajfsa> @guesstimate
20:48:35 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
20:48:43 <itidus21> shachaf: i had to check on rot13.com that you didn't special case that
20:49:08 <dajfsa> Who doesn't love special cases? Or cesial spaces?
20:49:17 <itidus21> that is the best rot13 ever
20:49:39 <FreeFull> > print \$ print \$ print \$ print \$ print 4
20:49:41 <lambdabot> <IO ()>
20:49:49 <fizzie> oerjan: A pun fountain on the fun mountain.
20:50:09 <dajfsa> Don't do that fizzie. We know how are you.......
20:50:12 <Sgeo> I assume that that doesn't work without Caleskell, or whatever Caleskell does to make IO printable
20:50:14 <oerjan> > fix print
20:50:15 <lambdabot> <IO ()>
20:50:28 <shachaf> You can do actual IO in lambdabot.
20:50:29 <shachaf> > putStrLn " <IO ()>"
20:50:31 <lambdabot> <IO ()>
20:50:33 <Sgeo> > print \$ (undefined :: IO (a -> IO b))
20:50:34 <lambdabot> Ambiguous type variable `a' in the constraint:
20:50:35 <lambdabot> `Data.Typeable.Typeable a...
20:50:42 <dajfsa> Lmao ; )
20:50:47 <Sgeo> > print \$ (undefined :: IO (Int -> IO Int))
20:50:48 <lambdabot> <IO ()>
20:51:00 <Sgeo> hmm, why did I expect that to work
20:51:03 <itidus21> later: shachaf's book of fun puns
20:51:15 <Sgeo> > undefined :: IO Int
20:51:16 <lambdabot> <IO Int>
20:51:51 <Sgeo> I wonder how the Showable instance manages to grab the name of the types...
20:52:08 <oerjan> Sgeo: Typeable constraint
20:52:32 <dajfsa> Excel is an "Excel"lent program for managing your spreadsheets, pick up Microsoft Excel today!
20:52:34 <Sgeo> Ah
20:52:39 <shachaf> Is dajfsa itidus21?
20:52:54 <oerjan> shachaf: no.
20:53:01 <shachaf> Is oerjan shachaf?
20:53:05 <dajfsa> shachaf: Yes. And yes.
20:53:09 <dajfsa> But no, no.
20:53:10 <dajfsa> No.
20:53:13 <dajfsa> No. No. Maybe? Yes.
20:53:24 <oerjan> there is no f way itidus21 could speak like that for any length of time.
20:53:48 <itidus21> my newly acquired ip spoofing skills at work
20:54:06 <shachaf> Is elliott elliott?
20:54:29 <dajfsa> No.
20:54:33 <atriq> > "elliott" == "elliott"
20:54:34 <lambdabot> True
20:54:37 <dajfsa> oerjan: What is an f way?
20:54:39 <dajfsa> Is it like a q way?
20:54:42 <itidus21> q qq q -q -qq qqq -qqqq -qq qq-
20:54:43 <Sgeo> A equals A. Existence exists.
20:54:44 <dajfsa> I follow the Q Way Path to the Eternalle in the Sky.
20:54:54 <dajfsa> Sgeo: Tell us more, Ayn!
20:54:54 <itidus21> i guess there is no -q
20:54:58 <oerjan> Sgeo: how objective of you
20:55:00 <dajfsa> There is -q if you believe in it.
20:55:55 <oerjan> :k Mu
20:55:56 <lambdabot> (* -> *) -> *
20:56:27 <Sgeo> :k Asdf
20:56:28 <lambdabot> Not in scope: type constructor or class `Asdf'
20:56:47 <itidus21> q q q q q q q q q q q q q q q q.. another uneventfuy day at the seti office.. q q q q (qq)_q_q_q ___ wow!
20:57:17 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:57:33 <oerjan> :t Mu
20:57:34 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Mu'
20:57:39 -!- monqy has joined.
20:57:44 <oerjan> ff
20:59:04 <oerjan> itidus21: i think you are concentrating on the wrong parts to spoof
20:59:43 <oerjan> :t Fix
20:59:44 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Fix'
20:59:52 <shachaf> > uncps (uncps (cps (cps (*2)) . cps (cps (+1)))) 5
20:59:54 <lambdabot> 12
21:00:00 <oerjan> :t mu
21:00:01 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `mu'
21:00:10 <FreeFull> > cps 3
21:00:12 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show ((t1 -> t2) -> t -> t2)
21:00:12 <lambdabot> arising ...
21:00:15 <oerjan> oh whatever
21:00:19 <zzo38> What does "cps" and "uncps" means?
21:00:25 <shachaf> cps f g = g . f
21:00:28 <shachaf> uncps f = f id
21:00:34 <zzo38> OK
21:00:39 <itidus21> oerjan: there is no hidden side to me capable of suddenly being dajfsa
21:00:52 <zzo38> Why do they need such definitions?
21:01:04 <oerjan> itidus21: ARE YOU SURE
21:01:09 <itidus21> of course not
21:01:11 <zzo38> Since you can write (flip (.)) and (\$ id)
21:01:35 <shachaf> zzo38; Why does anything need a definition?
21:01:36 <zzo38> (I do sometimes write (\$ id) in some Haskell programs)
21:01:50 <dajfsa> oerjan: What is "spoof"?
21:01:55 <zzo38> shachaf: Since they are longer definitions, or class definitions
21:02:07 <zzo38> Or type definitions
21:02:24 <shachaf> Instead of writing (\$ id) you can write ap id (const id)
21:02:38 <dajfsa> shachaf: Should not cps be cps x k = k x?
21:02:44 <oerjan> > (`id` id) id `id` id 42
21:02:45 <lambdabot> 42
21:02:54 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes that would work too if you want to use SKI combinator
21:03:12 <zzo38> (\$) is really the infix id
21:03:37 <zzo38> But with a more specific type
21:03:53 <oerjan> > (`id` id) (+) `id` id 42 `id` 7
21:03:54 <lambdabot> 49
21:04:08 <oerjan> > (\$ id) (+) \$ id 42 \$ 7
21:04:09 <lambdabot> Overlapping instances for GHC.Show.Show (a -> a)
21:04:09 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `...
21:04:18 <oerjan> COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
21:04:53 <zzo38> It may also have different fixity as well as a more specific type.
21:05:49 <oerjan> > (`id` 42 `id` 7) (+) -- sadly this still doesn't work, i think
21:05:50 <lambdabot> The operator `GHC.Base.id' [infixl 9] of a section
21:05:50 <lambdabot> must have lower pre...
21:05:58 <shachaf> Instead of (flip (.)) you can write ap (const (ap (ap (const ap) (ap (const const) id)))) (ap (const const) (ap (ap (const ap) (ap (const const) id)) (const id)))
21:06:06 <FreeFull> Lol
21:06:36 <zzo38> Well yes you can use SKI combinators if you want to, I think that is what that is isn't it?
21:06:43 <oerjan> :t (>>>) `asTypeÒf` flip (.)
21:06:44 <lambdabot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
21:06:48 <oerjan> wat
21:06:52 <oerjan> :t (>>>) `asTypeOf` flip (.)
21:06:53 <lambdabot> forall a a1 b. (a -> a1) -> (a1 -> b) -> a -> b
21:07:03 <dajfsa> Second tyme lucky - chinese proverb
21:08:28 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:16:02 <oerjan> > let (x \$ y) f = f x y; (x * y) f = x f y in (42 \$ 7 * 5) (,,)
21:16:03 <lambdabot> (42,7,5)
21:16:59 <dajfsa> oerjan: Q
21:17:13 <oerjan> K
21:17:19 <dajfsa> <atriq> @ask fizzie If I, in the near future, were to ask you questions regarding the implementation of mcmap, could you easily answer them?
21:17:29 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
21:17:58 <zzo38> Are there any uses of the unstable 6502 instructions in which the unstable parts of the operation are irrelevant?
21:18:01 <dajfsa> <Sgeo> Blaxxun. Y U NO EXIST ANYMORE?
21:18:03 <dajfsa> Sgeo : You are bad
21:18:08 <oerjan> ...ok i'm now positive dajfsa is elliott, if there was any doubt remaining
21:18:48 <dajfsa> oerjan: Friends are suns
21:19:02 <dajfsa> oerjan: What was Trotsky any way
21:19:32 <Sgeo> Black Sun. Blaxxun.
21:19:36 <Sgeo> Bitmanagement Software.
21:19:41 <dajfsa> What
21:19:42 <Sgeo> Doesn't quite fit the pattern
21:19:47 <dajfsa> Hello
21:19:49 <oerjan> *Mismanagement
21:20:01 <Sgeo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaxxun
21:20:37 <Sgeo> IVN is the king of mismanagement
21:20:41 <Sgeo> I want to slap IVN
21:20:47 <itidus21> oerjan: somehow i doubt managing bits is as fun as it sounds
21:20:50 <itidus21> oops
21:21:05 <itidus21> didn't mean to type that at you
21:22:32 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
21:23:27 <oerjan> itidus21: well it's too late now, you chased carado away
21:28:28 <itidus21> so.. i guess you can bend a number
21:28:42 <itidus21> if you can divide it
21:29:01 <itidus21> but then you just get more numbers really
21:30:19 <itidus21> uhhhnnn nurghh
21:30:28 <itidus21> fnynrrrghhh
21:30:55 <dajfsa> grjeong
21:31:48 -!- Lumpio- has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
21:32:54 <Sgeo> I can move objects with my mind.
21:33:16 <Arc_Koen> BUT can you move the lava out of the floor?
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21:37:44 <dajfsa> i am mind
21:37:47 <dajfsa> who minds
21:40:20 <oerjan> to mind, perchance to think
21:48:58 <fizzie> "You need me on your staff, because I'm a man who thinks."
21:50:17 <fizzie> (Geoffrey Pyke, reportedly.)
21:52:42 <Arc_Koen> a man who sinks!
21:53:04 <Arc_Koen> (this pun works in french as well)
21:53:30 <fizzie> There's a game Discordians play, it's called "Sink".
21:54:35 <Arc_Koen> nd with that I'm gonna sink into my bed, gnight
21:54:44 <fizzie> "UPON SINKING: The sinked shall yell 'I sank it!' or something equally as thoughtful." (From the rules.)
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21:55:37 -!- dartman has left.
21:57:28 <oerjan> shouldn't that be yelled by the sinker rather than the sinked, really?
21:57:46 <oerjan> or is that part of the discordianism.
21:59:11 <fizzie> It's a bit unclear.
21:59:41 <fizzie> "NAMING OF OBJECTS is some times desirable. The object is named by the finder of such object and whoever sinks it can say for instance, 'I sunk Columbus, Ohio!'" -- another rule.
21:59:45 <zzo38> Perhaps it is supposed to be unclear so that people think of it differently.
22:00:27 <oerjan> i shall second that, seeing the rest of the descirption
22:01:48 <zzo38> Even the Discordian calendar some people think of it differently, there is a perpetual Gregorian to Discordian calendar but the description describes the Julian calendar though; but these definitions have the same result until 2100 AD.
22:05:40 -!- Arc_Koen has joined.
22:06:59 <zzo38> Have you ever made a audio with a "masked saw wave"? What I mean by a "masked saw wave" is, if s is the array for the sound sample and k is a constant, then: s[t]=t&k;
22:07:19 <elliott> what's t
22:07:24 <zzo38> Time
22:08:00 <elliott> thx
22:11:15 <zzo38> If it is 4-bit digital-to-analog, then you can use k=15 for saw wave, k=7 for saw wave half volume and one higher octave, k=8 for square wave, k=4 for square wave half volume and one higher octave, and some combination of them canbe used too.
22:13:52 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: that's dr. turing to you, punk).
22:16:55 <itidus21> the bending thing was based on an idea i had about 2d origami
22:33:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:35:46 <itidus21> "In January 2002, while a junior in high school, Gallivan demonstrated that a single piece of toilet paper, 4000 ft (1200 m) in length, can be folded in half twelve times." well i'll be damned
22:37:30 <dajfsa> i had an argument once with a smug idiot who insisted you can't ever fold paper that much
22:37:40 <dajfsa> they didn't concede
22:38:40 <oerjan> > 1200/2^12
22:38:41 <lambdabot> 0.29296875
22:46:02 <fizzie> Mythbusters I think also folded a big sheet of paper.
22:46:23 <dajfsa> technically thou fizzie you are a big sheet of paper
22:46:25 <dajfsa> life thoughts
22:46:35 <fizzie> I suppose.
22:47:02 <olsner> it thoughts, therefore it is
23:07:07 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:11:18 <zzo38> How do you select high intensity CGA palette in QBASIC?
23:20:54 <kmc> i had an idea for a MMU with configurable page permissions policy
23:21:16 <shachaf> kmc.zzo38.moed
23:21:33 <shachaf> (kmc: What do you mean?)
23:21:51 <dajfsa> kmc: Dont lie .........
23:21:59 <kmc> the operating system configures a lookup table for a function whose inputs are the CPU mode, the type of access (rwx), some bits from the page table entry, some of the high bits of the address, and maybe other stuff
23:22:01 * shachaf is at the AAAAAIRPORT
23:22:11 <elliott> kmc: So did soundnfury get bored and leave or something?
23:22:12 <kmc> and the function says whether access should fault or not
23:22:18 <kmc> elliott: i have no idea
23:22:27 <elliott> You're useless, kmc. :(
23:22:34 <dajfsa> i agree wholeheartedly
23:23:08 <itidus21> i think what it boils down to is my problem is i have to work my brain just to maintain a grip on reality
23:23:40 <itidus21> not all the time
23:23:54 <itidus21> just during certain moments
23:24:25 <kmc> this would let you encode global policy like W^X, kernel can't execute user memory, user can't access top half of memory
23:24:37 <kmc> as well as giving flexibility as to what the page table bits mean
23:25:15 <kmc> basically if we started with a scheme this general, there would be no need for specific additions like NX, SMEP, SMAP
23:25:21 <kmc> of course that's a bit of 20/20 hindsight
23:26:10 <kmc> SMAP adds new instructions which the kernel uses to access user memory, which accesses are forbidden otherwise
23:26:25 <kmc> i guess to implement that in my scheme you would feed some spare bits from the instruction encoding and/or a prefix into that look up table
23:27:02 <shachaf> The Xbox 360 only allows encrypted memory to be executed, if I remember correctly.
23:27:07 <kmc> this sort of thing could be useful for userspace sandboxing as well
23:28:25 <kmc> for example a NaCl-like system could force all control flow instructions to specify a certain input to the permissions function
23:28:35 <elliott> this sounds sort of like @ kmc
23:28:35 <kmc> and then use page table bits to delineate where untrusted code is allowed to jump to
23:28:55 <kmc> well @ is the least upper bound of all ideas in computer science
23:29:19 <itidus21> lol
23:30:14 <kmc> well that's pretty useless though
23:30:21 <shachaf> kmc: Did you read about how they managed to get code running on the Xbox 360?
23:30:36 <kmc> because generally "you can jump anywhere within this page" is not a sufficient security rule
23:30:45 <kmc> shachaf: was it a timing attack on the MAC comparison function?
23:31:17 <shachaf> I don't believe so.
23:31:36 -!- augur has joined.
23:31:48 <shachaf> It was a bug in the system call dispatch code, I think.
23:32:13 <kmc> which bug?
23:32:40 <shachaf> It only checked the lower 32 bits of an address, or something like that.
23:32:44 <elliott> `addquote <elliott> this sounds sort of like @ kmc <kmc> well @ is the least upper bound of all ideas in computer science
23:32:45 <kmc> ah
23:32:48 <HackEgo> 865) <elliott> this sounds sort of like @ kmc <kmc> well @ is the least upper bound of all ideas in computer science
23:32:57 <shachaf> I saw a presentation about it. It was quite involved.
23:33:16 <shachaf> I think it was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxjpmc8ZIxM
23:33:47 <elliott> kmc: anyway with this you can sort of see dereferencing as a lookup capability
23:34:09 <elliott> like you are given the capability to query a database that is just a version of another database (memory) filtered by a predictae
23:34:25 <elliott> I sort of prefer making capabilities as small as possible by construction though
23:34:53 <elliott> so instead of giving the capability (Address -> Maybe Byte) you'd give (SafeAddress -> Byte) where SafeAddress is in some way constructed to ban such things
23:34:59 <elliott> obviously x86 is not very well built for this though
23:35:48 <shachaf> (a:Address) -> SafetyProof a -> Byte
23:36:16 <elliott> shachaf: Yes, but I'm not the biggest fan of that either.
23:36:23 <copumpkin> shachaf: doesn't the safety depend on when it's evaluated?
23:36:26 <elliott> (a :: SafeAddress) beats (a :: Address, SafetyProof a) in my book.
23:37:04 <shachaf> Does (a :: PrimeNumber) beat (a :: Number, PrimenessProof a)?
23:39:28 <elliott> shachaf: It depends on your use-case.
23:39:47 <elliott> shachaf: There's not much use talking about or using unsafe addresses, because an address has no use except to point to some information.
23:40:04 <elliott> So if Address only exists to be used in a tuple with a SafetyProof of it, then I'd rather there just be a SafeAddress to start with.
23:40:17 <shachaf> Fair enough.
23:40:38 <shachaf> I wonder what it would be like if all proofs were passed implicitly somehow.
23:40:54 <elliott> (Note that you need a way to construct SafeAddress. So in the end SafeAddress kind of ends up isomorphic to Byte.)
23:41:12 <elliott> (Which is the Right Thing, because (Byte -> Byte) means "if you have permission to access a byte, then you can access it".)
23:42:58 <shachaf> @ty cps (cps (*2))
23:42:59 <lambdabot> forall a t2 t21. (Num a) => ((a -> t2) -> t21) -> (a -> t2) -> t21
23:44:08 <elliott> kmc: (Do you like how I managed to rephrase your idea in a way that turned it into the identity function?)
23:44:11 <elliott> The power of @.
23:44:54 <shachaf> lambdabot: @
23:44:55 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add
23:44:55 <lambdabot> djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune
23:44:55 <lambdabot> fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma
23:44:55 <lambdabot> karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline
23:44:55 <lambdabot> oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc
23:44:55 <kmc> the power of @
23:44:57 <lambdabot> read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc
23:44:59 <lambdabot> topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow
23:45:00 <shachaf> the power of @
23:45:53 <elliott> @yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw
23:45:53 <lambdabot> "\"#\$%&'()*+,\""
23:46:15 <shachaf> Hah, cps f = (. f)
23:46:23 <shachaf> Whereas theotherthing f = (f .)
23:46:41 <shachaf> @pl (. f) . (. g) . (. h)
23:46:41 <lambdabot> (. f) . (. g) . (. h)
23:46:46 <shachaf> @pl ((. f) . (. g) . (. h)) id
23:46:46 <lambdabot> h . g . f
23:47:21 <elliott> I still don't understand why cps f is (. f) rather than (\$ f).
23:48:15 <shachaf> @ty \f -> (Prelude.. f)
23:48:16 <lambdabot> forall b c a. (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c
23:48:20 <shachaf> @ty \f -> (\$ f)
23:48:22 <lambdabot> forall a b. a -> (a -> b) -> b
23:50:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:52:05 -!- augur has joined.
23:52:35 <oerjan> @
23:52:52 <oerjan> hm?
23:52:55 <oerjan> > 2
23:52:56 <lambdabot> 2
23:52:59 <oerjan> @
23:53:05 <shachaf> oerjan: You have to have magical artist powers.
23:53:12 <oerjan> lambdabot: @
23:53:12 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add
23:53:12 <lambdabot> djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune
23:53:12 <lambdabot> fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma
23:53:12 <lambdabot> karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline
23:53:12 <lambdabot> oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc
23:53:14 <lambdabot> read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc
23:53:16 <lambdabot> topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow
23:53:17 <oerjan> OKAY
23:53:45 <oerjan> > var \$ cycle "test\n"
23:53:47 <lambdabot> test
23:53:47 <lambdabot> test
23:53:47 <lambdabot> test
23:53:47 <lambdabot> test
23:53:47 <lambdabot> test
23:53:49 <lambdabot> [8 @more lines]
23:54:01 <oerjan> lambdabot: @run var \$ cycle "test\n"
23:54:02 <lambdabot> test
23:54:03 <lambdabot> test
23:54:03 <lambdabot> test
23:54:03 <lambdabot> test
23:54:03 <lambdabot> test
23:54:04 <lambdabot> [8 @more lines]
23:54:30 <dajfsa> > var (cycle "q")
23:54:31 <lambdabot> qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq...
23:54:33 <dajfsa> > var (cycle "q\n")
23:54:34 <lambdabot> q
23:54:34 <lambdabot> q
23:54:34 <lambdabot> q
23:54:34 <lambdabot> q
23:54:34 <lambdabot> q
23:54:36 <lambdabot> [21 @more lines]
23:54:36 <oerjan> ok it's not just the prefix
23:54:36 <dajfsa> @more
23:54:38 <lambdabot> q
23:54:39 <dajfsa> @more
23:54:39 <dajfsa> @more
23:54:39 <dajfsa> @more
23:54:40 <lambdabot> q
23:54:42 <lambdabot> q
23:54:44 <lambdabot> q
23:54:46 <lambdabot> q
23:54:48 <lambdabot> [16 @more lines]
23:54:50 <lambdabot> q
23:54:52 <lambdabot> q
23:54:54 <lambdabot> q
23:54:55 <shachaf> oerjan: kick oerjan
23:54:56 <lambdabot> Plugin `more' failed with: thread killed
23:55:00 <dajfsa> kick lambdabot
23:56:05 <oerjan> lambdabot is claiming entrapment
23:56:43 <shachaf> elliott: Help, how do I say that something is associative and has an identity?
23:56:57 <zzo38> It is a monoid, isn't it?
23:57:16 <shachaf> Well, I want to include categories.
23:57:31 <zzo38> O, OK.
23:57:52 <zzo38> But even a monoid can be made a category of one object isn't it?
23:58:01 <shachaf> Right.
23:58:01 <oerjan> shachaf: "it's a category"
23:58:04 <shachaf> So I could say category but people would get confused.
23:58:12 <shachaf> Because I'm talking about monoids. :-(
23:58:30 <shachaf> If I used a lower-case 'c' I'd be technically correct.
23:58:32 <zzo38> Then say it is a monoid, if you are talking about monoids.
23:58:40 <dajfsa> shachaf: Monoidagory
23:58:41 <shachaf> I'm talking about categories too!
23:58:52 <shachaf> I just wrote that it's associative and has an identity.
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