←2012-09-30 2012-10-01 2012-10-02→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:04:08 <oerjan> it has been known to associate with certain ... identities. sometimes while commuting.
00:05:05 <oerjan> and it is also suspected of distribution, although we have no firm evidence
00:06:23 <oerjan> so we simply had to bust this ring.
00:06:33 <shachaf> oerjan: I'm sure you'll be abel to come up with something.
00:06:57 <elliott> /kick oerjan
00:08:03 <shachaf> oerjan: If you manage to join their secret meet, you'll have a field day.
00:08:33 <oerjan> don't lattice get _all_ out of hand, now
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00:35:37 <oerjan> darn wikipedia front page is knocking monads
00:37:03 <elliott> kick oerjan
00:37:27 <Lumpio-> Monads are impossible for humans to understand
00:38:04 <elliott> Lumpio-: is the joke that that's bullshit
00:38:49 <oerjan> itt: Lumpio- reveals himself to be soundnfury in disguise
00:39:08 <elliott> well it is ok because we have kmc here to argue with tedious morons who say bullshit about haskell
00:39:10 <elliott> that is his job
00:39:11 <elliott> good old kmc
00:40:42 <Lumpio-> The joke is that it's the truth
00:40:58 <Lumpio-> Developers should stick to well-established and easily understandable industry-standard design patterns
00:41:26 <elliott> Lumpio-: are you really this stupid hahahahahahahahaha
00:41:50 <oerjan> no way that last sentence wasn't a joke
00:41:55 <Lumpio-> I take it you have never experienced working in the enterprise.
00:42:08 <elliott> ok yeah you are obviously just bullshitting at this point
00:42:52 <Lumpio-> We do not take kindly to propeller-cap wearing kids trying to replace our proven practice COBOL systems with their new fancy schmancy C or Haskell or whateveritis these days
00:43:06 <monqy> there is no way you're not joking
00:43:06 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
00:43:16 <elliott> well obviously by now
00:43:20 <monqy> so please stop!!!
00:43:30 <oerjan> we clearly is missing a language called whateveritis
00:43:34 <oerjan> *are
00:43:34 <Lumpio-> Would *you* have your stock transactions go through a "monad"?
00:43:41 <Lumpio-> I for one wouldn't.
00:43:56 <monqy> nobody likes your joke stop it you're hurting our joke feelings
00:44:09 <monqy> i know this because i conducted a joke meeting
00:44:15 <monqy> we all agreed your joke is bad
00:44:15 <Lumpio-> Punched tape has worked perfectly fine for the last eleven decades and it's not going anywhere.
00:44:18 <elliott> joke consortium
00:44:19 <Lumpio-> ¬u¬
00:44:22 <Lumpio-> damn
00:44:28 <elliott> joke council handing down joke fines
00:44:35 <elliott> joke sentencing of joke jailtime
00:44:45 <elliott> people get joke arrested and go to joke prison
00:44:48 <elliott> but prison is no joke
00:44:50 <Lumpio-> I'll be sure to file an advance application the next time I feel like making a joke
00:45:02 <Lumpio-> ...in punched tape form
00:45:35 <elliott> joke council accepts only .rtf
00:46:19 <Lumpio-> Not .docx!?
00:49:03 <elliott> docx uses monads
00:50:20 <monqy> it's been years since I've last seen an rtf
00:50:26 <monqy> maybe not even a year since I've seen docx
00:51:19 <monqy> I guess this means rtf is better???
00:52:04 <elliott> monqy: it's because geocities died and took all the rtfs with it : (
01:03:30 <kmc> pumpkin jokes.pdf
01:03:39 <copumpkin> :O
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01:57:21 <itidus21> the nice thing about punched tape is it's human readable
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01:57:56 <itidus21> ^without electricity
01:58:34 <itidus21> because, you just know that any year now the property of technology that doesn't need electricity will become important for some reason
02:00:31 <coppro> whoa
02:00:57 <coppro> bec isn't supposed to lose his sword like that I think
02:03:08 <oerjan> itidus21: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies_the_Fire hth
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02:34:25 <itidus21> "a mysterious worldwide event that suddenly alters physical laws so that electricity, gunpowder, and most other forms of high-energy-density technology no longer work." just because
02:37:12 <zzo38> Is that possible? I doubt it. Anyways, even if such things is possible, it may be a "universewide" event, not just the worldwide event.
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02:43:58 <elliott> it doesn't have to be possible to be a good sci-fi premise
02:45:28 <zzo38> OK, but even in sci-fi, maybe it should be apply for universe, possibly other thing in universe also goes wrong later they realized later on
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03:03:47 <itidus21> a special goo was invented such that an animal's form interpolates with the last animal it was in contact with
03:04:40 <itidus21> when you think about it, thats quite an impressive backstory to spin to account for anthropomorphic turtles
03:11:17 <itidus21> google translation shuffle from "once upon a time he said riddle me this." to "Time, he said to me once when this mystery."
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04:37:24 <zzo38> How do I convert double to HWND type in C?
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04:39:26 <kmc> @hoogle Double -> HWND
04:39:26 <lambdabot> Warning: Unknown type HWND
04:39:27 <lambdabot> Unsafe.Coerce unsafeCoerce :: a -> b
04:39:27 <lambdabot> Control.OldException throwDyn :: Typeable exception => exception -> b
04:39:45 <kmc> "Warning: unknown type, but why not try unsafeCoerce anyway?"
04:40:20 <zzo38> I mean in C, not in Haskell.
04:41:19 <kmc> this is one of those cases where I say something which is not 100% a serious suggestion
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04:42:21 <zzo38> How to make a DLL in MinGW?
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04:43:49 <zzo38> Something like g_hWnd=(HWND)(int)hwnd; seems to compile at least, but I don't know if it is correct, and it won't link, maybe I need some switch to tell it to make DLL?
04:46:20 <zzo38> I tried -Wl,--export-all-symbols -Wl,--dll but it doesn't work.
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04:49:40 <zzo38> Maybe it works now....
04:50:50 <quintopia> zzo38: do you know a program that converts formatted text to .txt by wrapping italics in // and underlines in __ etc
04:52:10 <zzo38> quintopia: I don't know, but what file format is the input in?
04:52:49 <elliott> what is formatted text
04:52:57 <quintopia> who cares? pdf, html, rtf?
04:53:08 <elliott> well presumably you care since you wanted a program for it :P
04:53:17 <elliott> there are html to markdown converters
04:53:25 <quintopia> well i'd like to know if it exists for any format
04:53:26 <elliott> cf. http://milianw.de/projects/markdownify/
04:54:03 <kmc> quintopia: pandoc can convert stuff to markdown
04:54:25 <kmc> html and latex in particular
04:54:34 <kmc> though it's not, like, a full implementation of the TeX macro engine
04:55:58 <quintopia> cool
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06:42:07 <zzo38> How good is ARCFOUR as just a random number generator?
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07:41:31 <AnotherTest> Hello
07:42:16 <Jafet> It's better than RANDU.
07:46:27 <kallisti> anyone go to the magic prerelease
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07:47:44 <kallisti> I picked the Azorius guild
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12:30:58 <Phantom_Hoover> hey sgeo
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12:32:24 <Sgeo> Hi
12:34:01 <quintopia> i agree
12:34:17 <Phantom_Hoover> my tutor did his phd with ian stewart WHAT SAY YOU
12:35:11 <Sgeo> I say I know why you're mentioning Ian Stewart to me, you are curious what my reaction is.
12:35:49 <Phantom_Hoover> such insight
12:36:41 <Sgeo> I want to see if I can find the quote
12:36:42 <Arc_Koen> I would've said something irrelevant that fact is to me, but actually I'M VERY JEALOUS
12:37:22 <coppro> that's nothing
12:37:38 <coppro> There's a guy at UW who did his PhD under Hawking
12:38:23 <Sgeo> "Page 435 is not part of this book preview"
12:38:36 <Sgeo> Now I'm annoyed, since it now seems very likely that that's the exact page I want
12:39:13 <Phantom_Hoover> why, what's on it
12:40:13 <Sgeo> The part where there's an advertisement screaming something like "Supersymmetric Sisters!" or something like that, very uncomfortably reminiscent of quantum mechanics quackery
12:41:02 <Arc_Koen> that sounds more like porn than physics to me :/
12:41:02 <Sgeo> Not at all convinced that the best approach to equality is "Hey! In some invisible dimensions, we actually have more sides than the men"
12:41:39 <Sgeo> Actually, that wasn't the exact concept, but something similar to it
12:41:46 <Sgeo> Number of symmatries I think
12:42:05 <Phantom_Hoover> so in other words symmetry is entirely relevant
12:42:54 <Phantom_Hoover> also he had coffee with terry pratchett once
12:42:59 <Phantom_Hoover> he was 'surprisingly normal'
12:43:16 <Sgeo> I think maybe trying to push for equality based on the idea that number of symmetries is irrelevent is better than "technically, we're better"
12:44:58 <coppro> I was in the same room as hawking once is what say I
12:45:23 <quintopia> you dont have the same galactic scale as i coppro
12:45:24 <fizzie> Well, *I* see prof. (em.) Kohonen here every now and then! Uh... I guess that's not terribly impressive, he's maybe not exactly a household name.
12:45:51 <quintopia> for i can claim to have been on the same planet as hawking, and there are billions more planets than there are rooms!
12:46:20 <Sgeo> http://i.imgur.com/OkbGc.jpg
12:46:43 <quintopia> not only that, but i managed to be alive at the same time as hawking! out of the ~14b yrs the universe has existed and at least that much more it will go on
12:46:51 <Sgeo> I'm gonna puke
12:47:03 <Sgeo> (Not for reasons relevant to this conversation)
12:48:09 <fizzie> "at least that much more it will go on" not if I have something to say about that! ...er, nothing.
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12:56:29 <elliott> fizzie: PROFESSOR KOHONEN?!??!?!?!
12:56:32 <elliott> fizzie: Tell him he's my hero.
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12:57:06 <Phantom_Hoover> tell him he's a mangy frua
13:04:53 <Arc_Koen> fizzie: so I wanted to add a possibility for subroutines in Kipple, but I did not want to add new syntaxes
13:05:08 <Arc_Koen> I made it so that stacks are executable, but that doesn't sound like Kipple at all
13:06:40 <fizzie> I saw something about that. It's not all *that* far off, really.
13:07:46 <Arc_Koen> well I didn't write down what it meant to execute a stack exactly - for instance, should it be parsed already? or can it still contain whitespace and numbers expressed as multiple digits?
13:08:46 <Arc_Koen> maybe I should just include a way to define and call functions... but as I said I don't really like the idea of new syntax - I'd like everything to use stacks
13:09:13 <Arc_Koen> or maybe I should make functions, and include a special "call stack"
13:11:04 <Arc_Koen> (isn't there already a language that allows to access its call stack?)
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13:15:49 <fizzie> Forth, at least. If a bit unportably.
13:19:05 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/XMOh -- nasty, eh?
13:34:00 <Arc_Koen> fizzie: http://sprunge.us/SDDP
13:34:10 <Arc_Koen> I'm thinking the call stack doesn't add anything useful, actually
13:39:45 <itidus21> i think the entire purpose of humans existing is to have a species which does things that do not make any sense whatsoever from a biological standpoint
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13:40:35 <itidus21> thats the whole point.. thats why the earth is not free of humans
13:40:42 <elliott> good observation itidus21
13:42:23 <itidus21> we are a species which spends most of it's time seeking states of intoxication and laughter
13:43:06 <itidus21> and when not doing that we try to travel along roads at 300miles an hour just because we can
13:43:53 <itidus21> oh yes and porn..
13:44:10 <Arc_Koen> so you think other species don't do that?
13:44:12 <elliott> by "we" do you mean "me"
13:44:33 <elliott> Arc_Koen: i am actually fairly confident other species do not drive on roads at 300 mph just because they can
13:44:52 <itidus21> i pulled 300mph mostly out of hte air
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13:47:44 <itidus21> by analyzing bits and pieces of the universe it can seem to make sense, but taking everything as one thing, it can only be some kind of joke
13:48:20 <Arc_Koen> so you've read that egg thing?
13:49:45 <itidus21> if you ask an infinite number of "why?" questions, in the limit you find "for a joke"
13:50:34 <itidus21> i dont know what in the limit means...
13:50:36 <Arc_Koen> why?
13:50:44 <itidus21> im heavily borrowing idioms
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13:52:19 <Arc_Koen> why?
13:53:59 <Arc_Koen> should make a bot that does that... "I love chocolate" "Why do you love chocolat?" "because it tastes good" "Why does it taste good?" "because there is cocoa in it "Why is there cocoa in it?" and so on
13:55:24 <itidus21> "why did the chicken cross the road?" "to get to the other side"
13:55:51 <Arc_Koen> "Why get to the other side?"
13:56:40 <coppro> quintopia: its true
13:56:52 <itidus21> or at least i would like to think it's a joke
13:57:03 <quintopia> hi coppro
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13:57:50 <Arc_Koen> why, has the universe been bullying you?
13:58:51 <itidus21> facebook is somewhat of a joke
14:01:18 <quintopia> haha! facebook! good oone!
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14:10:25 <itidus21> by "we" i do basically mean "me"
14:10:48 <ogrom> how humble you
14:12:49 <quintopia> "i am a species which spends most of its time seeking states of intoxication and laughter"
14:12:56 <quintopia> you're my kind of species itidus
14:20:40 <itidus21> "For some time, Gell-Mann was undecided on an actual spelling for the term he intended to coin, until he found the word quark in James Joyce's book Finnegans Wake"
14:20:46 <itidus21> wow
14:21:13 <quintopia> i see you've been reading the wiki article on quarks
14:21:28 <itidus21> only that part
14:21:29 <quintopia> i did so also fairly recently
14:21:55 <itidus21> somehow i found that part
14:22:46 <quintopia> it would be a better story if it went
14:23:23 <itidus21> my plan was to say: i am tempted to say i wonder what would happen if there were no electrons. but then it would mean there were no quarks, but then i pondered saying no particles, but quarks were particles
14:23:30 <quintopia> "Gell-Mann was undecided on an actual spelling for the term he intended to coin, until he saw an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine featuring everyone's favorite Ferengi"
14:23:33 <itidus21> so i wonder what would happen with no particles
14:24:12 <Slereah> Also what if everything was made of asparagus
14:24:17 <quintopia> way to ask meaningful questions
14:24:45 <quintopia> lemme try
14:25:01 <quintopia> i wonder what would happen if time went backwards and reverse entropy was the norm
14:25:08 <quintopia> damn that one actually has an answer
14:25:13 <quintopia> i'm no good at this
14:25:21 <quintopia> um
14:25:58 <itidus21> sometimes i act like there are no particles
14:26:06 <quintopia> i wonder what would happen with the fourth fundamental force being antigravity
14:26:11 <quintopia> i'm gonna ask randall
14:26:41 <Slereah> Also I'm not sure reversing time would reverse entropy
14:26:46 <itidus21> ah that reminds me to check whatif
14:28:05 <Arc_Koen> on a monday?
14:29:43 <itidus21> i have not looked for a while
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14:37:00 <itidus21> i find most whatifs end in tragedy
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16:03:13 <Arc_Koen> itidus21: WE BLEW THE MOON UP!! that's not a tragedy that's AN ACCOMPLISHMENT
16:03:37 <ion> The introduction of emulators created to play illegally copied Nintendo software represents the greatest threat to date to the intellectual property rights of video game developers. […] the assumption that the games involved are vintage or nostalgia games is incorrect. Nintendo is famous for bringing back to life its popular characters for its newer systems http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp
16:04:27 <shachaf> Oh no. :-(
16:05:26 <Arc_Koen> well, emulators themselves are legal, aren't they?
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16:06:29 <fizzie> Arc_Koen: Possibly, but since they are the GREATEST THREAT maybe they shouldn't be!
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16:07:48 <fizzie> "Such emulators have the potential to significantly damage a worldwide entertainment software industry which generates over $15 billion annually, and tens of thousands of jobs."
16:07:57 <fizzie> See, you are RUINING it.
16:08:43 <fizzie> In case you feel like saying something to the contrary, remember that it's not open to debate.
16:08:47 <fizzie> ("Emulators developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software promote piracy. That's like asking why doesn't Nintendo legitimize piracy. It doesn't make any business sense. It's that simple and not open to debate.")
16:09:58 <fizzie> They also have the "linking is infringing" argument, I note. That's always a fun one.
16:13:01 * FreeFull links to google.com
16:13:03 <FreeFull> Oh no
16:22:10 <Sgeo> How many ROMs exist that aren't copies of Nintendo games?
16:22:14 <Sgeo> As in, homebrew ROMs?
16:25:07 <fizzie> I don't know how you could count that kind of thing, since there's presumably quite a few that only exist on their creator's computer.
16:27:46 <Sgeo> Are there a significant enough number that there's at least some usage of emulators that are legitimate?
16:30:44 <Arc_Koen> yes
16:30:55 <Arc_Koen> (that's a wild guess)
16:31:05 <Arc_Koen> (but I think it's a good approximation)
16:31:29 <fizzie> pouet's search finds 33 releases for NES; presumably watching those on an emulator should be legal. Depending, of course, whether those involve any burned-in-ROM code for which Nintendo claims copyright.
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16:33:34 <fizzie> (As well as 98 SNES releases, and somewhere around 250 GBA things.)
16:34:01 <shachaf> Can't you legally make a copy of a ROM you have for your own use?
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16:36:42 <fizzie> shachaf: Not according to Nintendo, because the copying devices are illegal.
16:36:46 <fizzie> Due to their "functions".
16:37:10 <fizzie> "Are Game Copying Devices Illegal? Yes. Game copiers enable users to illegally copy video game software onto floppy disks, writeable compact disks or the hard drive of a personal computer. They enable the user to make, play and distribute illegal copies of video game software which violates Nintendo's copyrights and trademarks. These devices also allow for the uploading and downloading of ...
16:37:16 <fizzie> ... ROMs to and from the Internet. Based upon the functions of these devices, they are illegal."
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16:37:29 <fizzie> I'd argue, but I'm sure this too is "not open to debate".
16:38:46 <fizzie> Anyway, I don't think there's (at least currently) a DMCA exemption for archival copying, so they might be (US-)right for all I know.
16:47:07 <mroman> So... CD-Burners are illegal too?
16:47:31 <mroman> also: By that definition, any regular computer is illegal?
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16:47:56 <Sgeo> I need to talk out my emotions somewhere, and my gf isn't online
16:48:23 <Phantom_Hoover> oh lord
16:48:38 <Sgeo> I'm probably not actually going to talk them out
16:48:41 <Sgeo> At least, not here
16:49:25 <fizzie> mroman: Well, IANAL. It might have to do with a value judgement on whether the device is "intended" to circumvent technical rights-protection measures or not, and whether it has any other uses. At least the Finnish anti-circumvention law criminalizes "circumvention devices" that have "only limited commercial uses" in addition to the circumvention bit. For regular computers and CD burners, I ...
16:49:32 <fizzie> ... would think it's reasonably clear they have substantial noninfringing uses.
16:54:31 <fizzie> (At least the Finnish law has a general-purpose exemption that you are allowed to circumvent a protection if you need to in order to use the product; so it'd be legal to go through AACS to watch a legally bought Blu-ray disc. Er, assuming you were clever enough to figure out how to do that; importing, distributing, selling, etc. of devices, products, parts or services to do it is of course a ...
16:54:37 <fizzie> ... criminal act.
16:55:31 <Sgeo> fizzie, does your client do some sort of wrapping thing automatically
16:55:53 <Sgeo> There exists a person with the nick of fi
16:56:06 <Sgeo> Discovered while trying to VERSION fizzie
16:56:26 <fizzie> It does, and I've configured it with a somewhat pessimal auto-wrapping line length limit.
16:56:59 <fizzie> Because the one it calculates (from uhost prefix, channel/target name etc.) sometimes fails miserably and leaves a few characters clipped.
16:57:14 <fizzie> (It's the quasi-standard irssi splitlong.pl.)
16:59:11 <fizzie> The autoguessed length is 497 - length($server->{nick} . $server->{userhost} . $target) where 497 is 510 - length(":! PRIVMSG :") and I think I did puzzle out why it's not always right but forgot already.
17:00:14 <fizzie> I've just fixed it to 400 bytes of actual content.
17:02:37 <fizzie> Perhaps it was simply the mismatch between "fis@iris.zem.fi" and "fis@unaffiliated/fizzie".
17:03:03 <fizzie> The former presumably being what $server->{userhost} expects.
17:05:58 <Sgeo> I need sleep
17:06:06 <Sgeo> And to not feel so nauseous
17:08:01 <Phantom_Hoover> both sterling idea
17:08:04 <Phantom_Hoover> *s
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17:52:26 <Sgeo> One of my typical channels for emotion stuff is also mostly inactive right now
17:54:58 <Phantom_Hoover> we can be used to emote!
17:55:07 <Phantom_Hoover> just ask that guy who was contemplating suicide a while back!
17:57:35 <Sgeo> I feel nauseous. Not sure if I'm physically sick, or if it's just emotions+lack of sleep
17:57:39 <Sgeo> I'm not running a fever.
17:58:26 <Phantom_Hoover> those aren't emotions Sgeo
17:58:30 <Phantom_Hoover> those are just feeling sick
17:58:34 <Phantom_Hoover> perhaps ask a doctor
17:58:52 <Phantom_Hoover> i guess this is a bad time for snark, i'll stop
17:58:54 <Sgeo> But I'm having some emotions, and unsure if they may be causing the symptoms
17:59:15 <Phantom_Hoover> a doctor would probably be able to tell you!
18:00:02 <fizzie> What, there was an #esoteric suicide and I missed it?
18:01:55 <itidus21> i think he means unknown character
18:02:22 <itidus21> <-- aware of the useless trivias
18:03:28 * Sgeo mentally replaces "useless" with "wicked". The wicked trivias
18:03:29 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
18:03:37 <Sgeo> honk HONK
18:03:59 <Sgeo> </homestuck>
18:04:35 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, he didn't commit suicide, at least not in-channel.
18:04:40 <Phantom_Hoover> I hope not at all, I don't need that kind of angst.
18:04:59 <itidus21> for some reason i associate angst with fried chicken
18:07:28 -!- sivoais has joined.
18:07:38 <itidus21> i don't think it's synesthesia
18:10:46 <fizzie> Synæsthesia. (I just wanted a ligature.)
18:22:38 <itidus21> s/bringing back to life its popular characters/shamelessly porting very old games/
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18:26:54 <Sgeo> Who was it that said that making a game made you immortal?
18:27:03 <Sgeo> Because people will find ways to keep the game working
18:27:23 <Sgeo> Sounds like something Sam Hugh would say, except he said it about math
18:29:09 <Sgeo> Hmm, I might be changing my mind about Ian
18:30:31 <Sgeo> It does make sense to say "Your arbitrary reason for discrimination doesn't even work", even if I would prefer "Arbitrary reasons for discrimination just suck, don't do that"
18:31:28 <Arc_Koen> problem is, if someone disagrees with your second statement, you're in a dead-end
18:31:42 <Arc_Koen> whereas it might be possible to reason him using the first
18:32:55 <Sgeo> Indeed
18:35:48 <Sgeo> Oh, PH isn't here
18:35:57 <Sgeo> @ask Phantom_Hoover Have you read Flatterland?
18:35:57 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:36:19 <Sgeo> @tell Phantom_Hoover Do read logs around when I @ask'd that.
18:36:20 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:50:39 -!- AnotherTest has left.
18:51:15 <tswett> Sgeo: would you like me to object to the intent to deregister you, on your behalf?
18:51:36 <Sgeo> o.O
18:51:38 <Sgeo> Hmm, sure
18:55:29 <Sgeo> o.O https://twitter.com/shit_hn_says
18:58:29 -!- oerjan has joined.
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19:01:14 <shachaf> Sgeo: _why?
19:01:36 <Sgeo> shachaf, why what?
19:03:20 <shachaf> "if you program and want any longevity to your work, make a game. all else recycles, but people rewrite architectures to keep games alive."
19:04:27 -!- atriq has joined.
19:06:10 <atriq> I completed Bastion this afternoon
19:06:10 <lambdabot> atriq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:06:12 <atriq> The ending was sad
19:06:39 <Sgeo> shachaf, oh, I feel like a derp now.
19:06:41 <Sgeo> And thank you.
19:08:38 <atriq> fizzie, in mcmap's colour scheme (in colors.txt and block.c)
19:10:46 <atriq> How does the alpha work?
19:10:53 <atriq> As in, which end's which?
19:12:29 <olsner> apparently, the alpha is bi-endian so that depends on which mode it's in
19:12:40 <atriq> Hmm
19:19:30 <oerjan> <itidus21> i find most whatifs end in tragedy <-- he does seem to make a point of that
19:20:14 <oerjan> *munroe
19:23:21 <atriq> Maybe he's sad because his wife has cancer
19:25:03 <kmc> i think it's because bad things happening to other people is the basis of humor
19:25:13 <kmc> (not actually true)
19:25:21 <atriq> I thought bad puns were the basis of humour
19:33:55 <shachaf> Puns *are* bad things happening to people.
19:34:09 <atriq> Wow
19:34:33 <atriq> This is like when I first got told that Monads *are* monoids in the category of endofunctors
19:35:37 <shachaf> I have the feeling that reading a page full of quotes from _Stranger in a Strange Land_ is a better experience than reading the actual book.
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19:45:59 <fizzie> atriq: It's actually opacity, so 255 is fully opaque, 0 is completely transparent.
19:48:19 <fizzie> atriq: (As far as I know, anyhow. And water is special.)
19:51:02 <oerjan> @tell Arc_Koen did you mean to remove an a from the kipple truth-machine program? i don't know kipple so...
19:51:02 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
19:58:49 -!- jiella1 has changed nick to jiella.
20:03:51 <zzo38> Is the random number generator I used in Famicom Hangman OK?
20:07:43 <kmc> http://www.daniellesucher.com/2011/11/jailbreak-the-patriarchy-my-first-chrome-extension/
20:11:14 <itidus21> from another internet place:
20:11:35 <itidus21> "Damn it Jim, I'm a roleplayer not a whore."
20:14:25 <atriq> fizzie, thanks
20:16:50 <atriq> fizzie, what's the point of block traits? The only one with LAVA_TRAIT is lava and lave, similar for WATER_TRAIT
20:17:23 <Sgeo> "There is a known bug with the English language itself that Im dealing with imperfectly at the moment. See, sometimes her should translate to him, and sometimes it should translate to his. There are a lot of tricky edge cases here."
20:18:58 <oerjan> well translate may be the wrong word, but i understand what it's trying to say.
20:19:35 <oerjan> "her" is both oblique form and possessive, but "him" and "his" divide this.
20:20:57 <Sgeo> I'm just amused by calling English "buggy"
20:24:07 <fizzie> atriq: Future-proofing, I suppose. It used to be so that IS_WATER checked against block IDs directly, I think. It was felt cleaner if such block properties were more centrally collected.
20:24:21 <atriq> Okay
20:24:30 <fizzie> atriq: There are, after all, apparently two waters. (0x08 and 0x09.)
20:24:49 -!- augur has joined.
20:26:56 <atriq> Okay
20:27:20 <atriq> Yeah, water source and running water
20:30:21 <atriq> Which generation's "Generation Y"?
20:30:24 <atriq> (not mcmap)
20:31:19 <fizzie> The one after X, I think? Maybe?
20:31:42 <atriq> Is it my generation? The one before me? The sort of half generation between my and my parents?
20:31:43 <atriq> ???
20:37:14 <olsner> if it wasn't obvious, these "generations" are arbitrary groupings that are very vaguely related to the time people are born, and anyone can invent a Generation Fnarf if they want to
20:37:55 <olsner> you could be in as many as a thousand generations simultaneously
20:38:03 <oerjan> Generation Fnarf is Gregor's, naturally.
20:38:28 <olsner> and his children will be Generation Fnarf'
20:38:58 <atriq> Apparently, Generation Y is the children of Generation X
20:39:02 <atriq> Who were the baby boomers
20:39:11 <atriq> So, I'm right at the end of Generation Y
20:43:29 <fizzie> I thought somehow that baby boomers were an older thing.
20:44:20 <atriq> Generation after WWII?
20:44:43 <fizzie> "There are no precise dates for when Generation Y starts and ends. Commentators use beginning birth dates ranging somewhere from the later 1970s[2] or the early 1980s to the early 2000s (decade).[3]"
20:44:52 <fizzie> Sounds kinda longish-timey.
20:45:05 <Gregor> lul
20:45:11 <Gregor> Generation Y is like six generations.
20:45:42 <oerjan> i thought a generation was about 30 years.
20:47:30 <fizzie> oerjan: It's supposed to be a "demographic cohort (a group of subjects with a common defining characteristic)", not exactly a generation in the "mean time between current children becoming parents" sense.
20:47:55 <Gregor> Mmm hmmm.
20:48:50 <olsner> oerjan: with all the kids running around getting kids nowadays, it's probably more like 15 years now
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20:50:29 <atriq> 15 years!?
20:50:40 <atriq> What have I been missing for the past 3!?
20:51:06 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:51:22 <zzo38> About LAVA_TRAIT for lava only, it is actually something similar I did in MegaZeux, I changed it to do like that due to the features I have added to make new kind of objects, so that they can be treated as lava by movement functions.
20:51:24 <olsner> I suppose he left to start a family now
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20:57:06 <fizzie> olsner: Finnish statistics for children born in 2011: mean age of mother, 30.3 years; 28.4 considering only firstborn.
20:57:46 <fizzie> (Firstborn children, that is. There are no statistics on the firstbornedness status of the mothers.)
21:01:33 <olsner> hmm, that'd mean finland is about 1 generation behind per 15 years
21:01:39 <fizzie> 25.0 for the latter figure over all of US in 2006.
21:02:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
21:04:42 <fizzie> 25.2 in 2009.
21:09:06 <Gregor> So I “should” be having children.
21:09:09 <Gregor> Ha ha.
21:09:10 <Gregor> Ha ha.
21:09:12 <Gregor> *sob*
21:09:55 <fizzie> I did not know you aspire to being a mother.
21:11:26 <olsner> Gregor: Generation Fnarf' is dying for you to get going
21:11:59 <Gregor> fizzie: I assume the age is about the same for mothers and fathers >_<
21:12:22 <fizzie> I would guesstimate that it's higher for fathers.
21:12:37 <fizzie> The statistics reports don't bother saying.
21:13:00 <fizzie> These particular ones, anyway; I'm sure such a statistic exists.
21:14:23 <fizzie> 29.65 for a first-time father in 2010.
21:15:14 <fizzie> So about four-and-half years oldr, assuming the mother ages didn't drastically change in one year.
21:16:16 <Gregor> Hm.
21:16:19 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: yes, one specificity of Kipple is that operators can share operands, I thought it would be a good thing to show it in the truth-machine
21:16:19 <lambdabot> Arc_Koen: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
21:16:21 <Gregor> OK, got a little bit of time!
21:16:43 <shachaf> @ask Gregor hi
21:16:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
21:16:46 <oerjan> ok
21:17:04 <Gregor> @messages
21:17:04 <lambdabot> shachaf asked 21s ago: hi
21:17:06 <fizzie> Coincidentally, I seem to be approximately 29.46, and there's a kind of a 0.75 year obligatory delay in the process, or so I believe.
21:17:09 <Arc_Koen> for instance, 0>a? first pushes a zero on a (with >), then if a's top element is 0, clear the stack
21:17:22 <fizzie> So I suppose I'll just forget about it.
21:18:15 <Arc_Koen> or the cat program (i>o) uses i both as an operand for the test condition of the '(' loop, and as a value to push on the output stack
21:18:28 <Arc_Koen> it's equivalent to (i i>o)
21:19:38 <Arc_Koen> I guess I should have made a comment about the modification but I thought it was minor
21:26:56 <Arc_Koen> hmm, question: is it possible to use non-printable characters in thue?
21:27:21 <Arc_Koen> I saw in the external resources a link to a brainfuck interpreter in thue, and thought it would be a cool thing to do
21:27:53 <Arc_Koen> and I'm thinking the easiest way to implement brainfuck cells is by stocking chars directly
21:28:51 <Arc_Koen> (well I guess writing them as 8-bit sequences would work as well, but because of . I'd need to have all the translations anyway)
21:28:53 <oerjan> afair the main problem with thue i/o is that input is line oriented in a way that makes it impossible to do input without possible "code injection"
21:29:16 <Arc_Koen> oh it's a whole line
21:29:18 <Arc_Koen> right
21:30:13 * itidus21 thinks.
21:30:15 <oerjan> iirc the brainfuck interpreter doesn't even try to use thue i/o for brainfuck i/o
21:30:38 <Arc_Koen> no I was using thue's input for brainfuck code
21:31:03 <oerjan> that should be possible as long as you have no comments
21:31:05 <Arc_Koen> this way I can place the brainfuck instruction next to the current cell
21:31:31 <Arc_Koen> yes, I decided to assume the input would be +-.,><[] only
21:31:41 <Arc_Koen> (though I may drop ,.)
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21:35:49 <itidus21> (thinks) haiku 5 bytes 7 bytes 5 bytes (look at wiki found haifu) (thinks more) pi 3 1 4 1 5 9.. a program whence the number of tokens per line is the line number'th digit of pi
21:36:48 <itidus21> not a big deal, just a thing
21:38:42 <oerjan> trivial in something like C that has free whitespace
21:39:36 <itidus21> yeah
21:40:43 <itidus21> could be an interesting text format though.
21:41:29 <Phantom_Hoover> pi is so boring though
21:41:29 <lambdabot> Phantom_Hoover: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
21:41:36 <itidus21> agh no no it wouldn't..........
21:41:37 <Phantom_Hoover> ooh, messages
21:43:41 <itidus21> oerjan: perhaps if each pi digit was a token length, including whitespace
21:44:05 <Arc_Koen> I think something that might help improve thue is an event-driven feature
21:44:29 <itidus21> uh i guess you wouldn't need whitespace actually
21:44:31 <Arc_Koen> like "if you just applied rule x, apply rule y"
21:44:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, would you like me to find ian stewart and present your objections to him
21:45:03 <Phantom_Hoover> i think he has a lecture soon
21:45:18 <Phantom_Hoover> a public one obv. not a teaching one
21:45:22 <Arc_Koen> ok +->< were easy to implement... now to loops
21:45:41 <Sgeo> Phantom_Hoover, um
21:45:53 * Sgeo panics
21:46:05 <Phantom_Hoover> don't worry i'm not nearly motivated enough to do that
21:46:37 <Sgeo> Oh, ok
21:46:51 <itidus21> Heyaduck.Lookswonderfuleh
21:48:07 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: what do you think of http://sprunge.us/EPIe
21:48:21 <oerjan> itidus21: ooh, now that's a bit more interesting
21:48:30 <zzo38> Can we make up a programming language that requires use of bus conflicts and race conditions?
21:48:31 <itidus21> yes, i finally struck something
21:48:49 * itidus21 drops wool. picks up pitext
21:49:36 <oerjan> zzo38: it will have to be named after Rosa Parks
21:49:47 <Arc_Koen> (well BEGIN!::=BEGIN00000000!; should be BEGIN!::=BEGIN;00000000!; instead but appart from that)
21:50:13 <olsner> oerjan: ha!
21:50:15 <zzo38> oerjan: OK, but why, and why is Rosa Parks?
21:50:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Arc_Koen, this is Thue right
21:50:30 <olsner> why and how is she?
21:50:33 <Arc_Koen> yes
21:50:40 <itidus21> ok i just got that
21:50:42 <Arc_Koen> an interpreter for brainfuck
21:50:46 <zzo38> I mean, who is Rosa Parks?
21:50:51 <itidus21> hats off for that pun
21:51:18 <Arc_Koen> but I really don't know how to implement loops
21:51:48 <olsner> the whole program is one big loop, really
21:52:04 <Arc_Koen> what program?
21:52:08 <olsner> the thue program
21:52:11 <Arc_Koen> oh, yes
21:52:21 <Arc_Koen> but I mean I don't know how to implement brainfuck's [ and ]
21:52:27 <itidus21> bus conflicts!
21:52:43 <Arc_Koen> they'd need to keep the brainfuck code somewhere, instead of taking it char after char from input
21:52:52 <oerjan> zzo38: "Rosa Louise McCauley Parks (February 4, 1913 – October 24, 2005) was an African-American civil rights activist, whom the U.S. Congress called "the first lady of civil rights", and "the mother of the freedom movement"."
21:52:53 <itidus21> if i didn't know better i'd say zzo38 did that on purpose
21:53:14 <Arc_Koen> but if I do so, then how can I have statements like "if the current instruction is so, do so to the tape"?
21:53:19 <zzo38> Did what on purpose?
21:53:32 <itidus21> you made a joke
21:53:46 <zzo38> What joke?
21:53:51 <olsner> Arc_Koen: I think the usual way is to encode some kind of marker that points out the next thing for the interpreter to do
21:54:01 <oerjan> zzo38: no you made the setup to my rosa parks joke
21:54:04 <itidus21> <zzo38> Can we make up a programming language that requires use of bus conflicts and race conditions? <oerjan> zzo38: it will have to be named after Rosa Parks
21:54:26 <zzo38> OK
21:54:26 <Arc_Koen> olsner: I'm not sure I understand
21:55:07 <Arc_Koen> problem is if I have brainfuck code someplace, and the tape in another place, I cannot apply the code to the tape
21:55:21 <itidus21> you see zzo38, rosa parks caused a conflict on a bus when she refused to let a white person take her seat because her race was black
21:55:35 <Arc_Koen> the !::=::: statement allowed me to inject the brainfuck instruction directly into the tape
21:55:53 <zzo38> itidus21: OK. Now I know who is Rosa Parks.
21:55:58 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:56:08 <itidus21> it couldn't be more fitting
21:56:09 <zzo38> But I didn't make a joke; oerjan did.
21:56:22 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: that _would_ seem to be a problem. i think you'll just have to move things about, that's usual with thue
21:56:34 <zzo38> But I am OK if you want to call it that.
21:57:20 <itidus21> i think they keep the bus in question in a museum or something
21:57:43 <itidus21> can't recall if i remember that or if i read something wrong
21:57:45 -!- heroux has joined.
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21:57:58 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: move things about? like, moving a whole portion of brainfuck code inside the tape? problem is, thue doesn't allow for "variables" (as some kind of regexp or pattern-matching), so i'd need to write transformation laws for every possible code
21:58:38 <Arc_Koen> hhmmm, or I guess I could move the tape through the code instead of moving the code through the tape
21:58:46 <olsner> iirc, moving everything around is what the other bf in thue interpreter is doing ... I'm not too sure where the tape is, but there is stuff moving around in the state space that roughly corresponds to the instruction pointer
21:58:47 <Arc_Koen> that would feel weird though
21:58:59 <itidus21> the irony is on the intra bus conflicts and inter bus conflicts
22:01:44 <Arc_Koen> well I'll think about it, at least it looks possible now
22:01:51 <Arc_Koen> thank you for your help and good night
22:02:26 <olsner> it is definitely possible
22:04:37 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
22:05:03 <Arc_Koen> hehe :)
22:06:15 <itidus21> Arc_Koen: yeah i have also been thinking about events..
22:06:59 <itidus21> ok you did say good night
22:07:02 <Arc_Koen> someone dropped a comment on list of ideas saying "hey I have ideas for an object-oriented derivative for thue, but I don't know how to create a page"
22:07:26 <Arc_Koen> btw, I really like today's xkcd
22:08:54 <Arc_Koen> (I'm puzzled as to how thue could be object-oriented... this is probably the last paradigm I would've thought of for a derivative)
22:09:05 <Arc_Koen> anyway, gnight
22:09:25 <olsner> hmm, object rewriting
22:11:04 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: shall I answer to the thue derivative idea on the list of ideas page? since it's not a user I don't know of another way to talk to him
22:13:53 <oerjan> that page has always been a bit talky anyway
22:23:20 -!- copumpkin has joined.
22:28:40 <Arc_Koen> well, done, good night for good
22:28:52 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen).
22:48:59 <olsner> hmm, how does ^/([^q].*)$ not match '/+++++.'?
22:50:38 <shachaf> olsner: Maybe / is being treated as a special character?
22:54:44 <fizzie> Maybe there's a newline at the end. (Don't laugh. Sometimes there is!)
22:57:34 <fizzie> !perl '/+++++.' =~ m{^/([^q].*)$} ? print "match" : print "no";
22:57:35 <EgoBot> match
22:57:51 <jiella> itidus21: The Rosa Parks bus is in the Henry Ford museum.
22:58:19 <olsner> I think the problem was that RewriteCond applies to the next RewriteRule, didn't remember that part
23:00:08 <itidus21> thanks
23:00:30 <fizzie> olsner: Do you have brainfuck in your URIs?
23:00:36 <olsner> fizzie: yes
23:00:48 <fizzie> Sounds like a situation.
23:01:24 <olsner> that's not the problem though, the problem is that it's not working
23:01:55 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
23:02:28 <olsner> it seems to be going "oh, qq000000000000000101^ioiooooooooooooooo looks like a valid uri, let's go to that file!" and then serves a 400 Bad Request error
23:03:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:07:37 <olsner> !perl 'qqr000000000000000101^ioiooooooooooooooo' =~ m{^(q.*q[^r].*)$} ? print "match" : print "no";
23:07:38 <EgoBot> no
23:07:52 <olsner> oh, reading it backwards again
23:16:34 <itidus21> that's a fancy esolang
23:18:15 <olsner> argh, the problem was so damn silly :(
23:18:41 <olsner> you're supposed to add a colon followed by the input to the program followed by an underscore
23:18:50 <olsner> if you don't, then nothing happens
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23:40:22 <olsner> in other words, it was never broken in the first place, I was just using it wrong
23:49:49 <olsner> wtf, now I got the 10% bug but in the *other direction*
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23:58:23 <olsner> > (zipWith (/) `on` map (fromIntegral . ord)) "Oovvy#^y|vn$" "Hello World!"
23:58:25 <lambdabot> [1.0972222222222223,1.099009900990099,1.0925925925925926,1.0925925925925926...
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