00:00:37 <ais523> anyway, I have a feeling "CPS" is the way to go here
00:00:45 <ais523> or at least, inside-out loop programming
00:01:04 <ais523> you'd expect it to be just because it isn't obviously sub-TC
00:02:04 <ais523> you can use alternating elements of the tape as two counters
00:02:20 <ais523> you can increment them, the problem is decrement and zero test
00:03:24 <ais523> to decrement, you'd need to find one end of the counter, then overwrite it with a 0
00:03:41 <ais523> the problem is if the counter is actually 0, you'd just spend forever trying to find the end
00:03:48 <ais523> even if you had a reliable inverted while, and I'm not sure you do
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06:00:24 <shachaf> kmc: 22:59 <shachaf> A new lambdabot isn't cool. You know what's cool? A new (U+E9278)bot.
06:01:16 <oerjan> kelvinbot is the coolest bot
06:06:00 <olsner> I'm guessing that was the pun he was going for
06:06:24 <kallisti> yes but it is more solidified cool.
06:07:39 <oerjan> some people want solid zero kelvin puns, but i say the helium
06:08:58 <oerjan> the helium deficit is simply ballooning
06:09:28 <olsner> what other things is helium used for, really?
06:12:20 <olsner> I should be doing more mad science
06:13:05 <shachaf> ((more mad) science) or (more (mad science))?
06:13:56 <olsner> also more science, so I have some science to put the mad in
06:20:31 <fizzie> More ((more mad) science).
06:20:39 <shachaf> More, more, I'm still not satisfied!
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07:57:09 <oerjan> Just realized I probably shouldn't imply that I expect not to survive hospital :P
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07:57:38 <shachaf> kmc: The examples in the end of http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2010/10/quantification-in-haskell.html aren't actually monoids (1/"foo" aren't identities).
07:58:09 <shachaf> I'm not sure whether that was meant to imply that Something was equivalent to SomeMonoid.
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09:47:50 <Kosnik> can anyone solve this riddle
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09:53:14 <fizzie> I don't think anyone can.
09:53:27 <Jafet> A homotopy lattice on elliptic curve residues.
09:55:41 <Jafet> theproofistrivial.com
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12:04:16 <ion> Some sensor testing. http://heh.fi/tmp/imu-test
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14:06:53 <elliott> pikhq: How was it you said how to convert GPT to MBR?
14:07:01 * elliott 's system has been all too stable the past few days.
14:17:23 <elliott> shachaf: Why isn't there a castStableName :: StableName a -> StableName b -> a -> Maybe b?
14:20:04 <elliott> Or I guess castStableName :: StableName a -> StableName b -> p a -> Maybe (p b) is better.
14:20:28 <elliott> (Implementation is Just through unsafeCoerce if (==).)
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15:52:21 <shachaf> elliott: To annoy you. :-(
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15:53:26 <elliott> shachaf: Doesn't it annoy you too?
15:53:47 <shachaf> I've never wanted that function.
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15:54:20 <elliott> It lets you do observable sharing, see?
15:54:26 <elliott> It's useful with existential types and stuff.
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15:54:48 <shachaf> StableNames are for people who horse around while they're programming.
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16:00:50 <elliott> ais523: I think you should kick shachaf for that.
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16:31:22 <olsner> oh, that pun took a while to spot
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17:22:22 <Sgeo> Ugh, even well-known libraries like Incanter sometimes feel like they were written by Clojure newbies
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17:43:57 <shachaf> kmc: How many cores were in that machine you were talking about at ksplice?
17:45:05 <kmc> four sockets, each with one of AMD's "Magny-Cours" processors
17:45:19 <elliott> kmc: More like kscheisse, right?
17:45:37 <elliott> Magny-Cours is French for Many-Cores
17:45:39 <kmc> which are sold as 12-core processors but are actually two six-core processors in a multi-chip module
17:45:53 <kmc> (for example, each socket has 2 NUMA domains and 2 L3 caches)
17:46:15 <shachaf> 2 L3 caches? That's like an L6 cache!
17:46:23 <kmc> i know, right?
17:46:35 <elliott> kmc: I feel like you don't appreciate my jokes.
17:46:44 <kmc> it is elliott
17:46:49 <kmc> that's the joke
17:47:33 <shachaf> What did Ksplice need with 48 cores?
17:48:06 <kmc> shachaf: building kernels
17:48:10 <elliott> kmc??? "No it isn't okay!!!" - mc
17:48:20 <elliott> suddenly I burned you instead..........
17:48:24 <kmc> it's true that this work could be distributed across multiple machines
17:48:37 <kmc> we did the biggest batch builds on EC2 spot instances
17:49:26 <kmc> but in general it's easier to manage one machine, and one build script that runs on one machine
17:52:35 <kmc> so we built the most parallel single machine we could using parts that are still vaguely commodity PC hardware
17:54:46 <kmc> basically we decided the price premium of one integrated super beefy machine versus four reasonably beefy machines was less than the value of engineering effort to make the existing build scripts run in a distributed fashion
17:55:09 <kmc> (or the engineering effort of making a local distributed setup that looks like EC2 enough to reuse the EC2 build scripts, which also had various problems)
17:55:40 <kmc> this being a 12 person company and not someone like Google or Oracle with huge teams devoted to building and managing distributed systems
17:55:45 <shachaf> Making build scripts distributed is more trouble than you might think.
17:55:52 <shachaf> Even if you take Hofstadter's law into account.
17:56:18 <kmc> i was pretty pleased with myself when i added distributed work to the script to re-encode my music library as ogg vorbis
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18:12:46 <kmc> building a ksplice update involves building the distribution's kernel using exactly their configuration and toolchain, then applying your patch and building it again
18:13:28 <kmc> you do get to use make's incremental build, but it still takes a fair amount of time
18:13:42 <kmc> and you have to do this separately for each version of the base kernel the user booted into
18:13:46 <kmc> nooga: do you know what ksplice is
18:17:11 <nooga> linux kernel extension?
18:17:16 <kmc> not really
18:17:27 <shachaf> It's more of a Windows NT kernel extension.
18:17:37 <kmc> it's a technology for applying linux kernel updates to a running system, without rebooting or disrupting any processes
18:18:12 <kmc> i worked for the company that developed this technology, and sold an updates service based around it
18:18:20 <kmc> until that company was bought by oracle
18:18:30 <kmc> now it is a feature of oracle linux premium support, but i don't work there anymore
18:18:52 <kmc> anyway ksplice works by comparing the compiled object files of the pre- and post-patch kernels
18:19:08 <kmc> which is why you need to compile the kernel exactly as the distribution did
18:19:20 <kmc> you don't need a special kernel to apply ksplice updates
18:19:55 <nooga> then wikipedia is wrong
18:19:56 <kmc> we had customers who had not rebooted their machines since before ksplice was created, and yet they could apply rebootless updates
18:20:17 <kmc> 'Using Ksplice does not require any preparation before the system is originally booted (the running kernel does not need to have been specially compiled, for example)'
18:20:26 <kmc> does wikipedia contradict this somewhere else?
18:20:37 <nooga> "Ksplice is an open source[2] extension of the Linux kernel "
18:20:44 <kmc> it is open source
18:20:47 <kmc> i added that citation
18:20:52 <nooga> but not an extension?
18:21:13 <kmc> each update is a linux kernel module
18:21:23 <kmc> (actually, a few kernel modules)
18:21:32 <kmc> it seems valid to call kernel modules "extensions"
18:21:54 <kmc> also it is possible to build a kernel that has the core ksplice technology built in (or, it was possible at one point, anyway) but we did not expect our customers to have done so
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18:22:11 <kmc> we expected our customers to be using standard precompiled kernels from red hat, ubuntu, debian, etc.
18:23:14 <nooga> actually, that's pretty nifty
18:23:32 <kmc> yeah, it is really cool tech :)
18:24:27 <nooga> are you one of the founders?
18:24:37 <kmc> i joined only 8 months before the company was acquired
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18:26:12 <nooga> i'm sure it was a nice job
18:26:22 <nooga> hacking this stuff
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18:26:32 <kmc> it was really fun
18:26:49 <kmc> i was kinda bummed when we got acquired by compuglobalhypermegacorp
18:27:01 <kmc> but i made a decent amount of money off it
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18:28:33 <nooga> that's the best part usually
18:29:15 <nooga> it's nice to have some extra
18:30:21 <kmc> i guess money is overrated
18:30:32 <kmc> but the value of having money is that you can adopt the attitude "money is overrated"
18:30:39 <kmc> if you don't have money then it does not seem overrated
18:30:56 <nooga> tthat i was an uneployed student
18:31:11 <nooga> and couldn't afford bread
18:31:31 <kmc> i do feel like my quality of life does not change much past some fairly low income level, but that level is still very high by global standards
18:31:33 <nooga> nothing too bad - but it was an important experience
18:31:44 <kmc> sometimes students can get free food :)
18:31:45 <shachaf> Money is overrated beyond a certain point, I mean.
18:32:28 <kmc> but money saved is also more time you don't have to work later
18:32:40 <kmc> and longer you can survive without getting a job in the future
18:32:44 <shachaf> Maybe I'm just trying to convince myself.
18:32:48 <kmc> and you can also give it to someone who needs it more
18:33:25 <nooga> i like having some cash buffer
18:34:15 <nooga> not worrying about the small stuff
18:34:43 <nooga> you cannot even focus if you fear that you won't be able to pay rent
18:37:02 <kmc> being poor is expensive
18:37:38 <kmc> if you're poor you can't afford the time or equipment to cook at home, can't buy food or anything else in bulk
18:37:54 <kmc> poor people in rich countries eat lots of terrible cheap fast food
18:38:27 <kmc> if you're poor you probably spend a lot of your time on transit getting from your house in the middle of nowhere to various jobs
18:38:39 <kmc> basically being poor is expensive and exhausting
18:38:46 <nooga> majority of ppl earn from 600 to 1200 bucks
18:38:54 <kmc> are poor people in Poland fat or thin?
18:38:59 <nooga> and gas is like 2 bucks per litre
18:39:02 <kmc> i think poland is rich enough that the poor people should be fat but i'm not sure
18:39:28 <nooga> dinner in a decent restaurant is 20-30 bucks
18:40:03 <nooga> rest ona 55sqm flat is 400-600
18:42:00 <nooga> living here is quire expensive when you look at the earnings
18:42:24 <nooga> i think living in london is cheaper, provided that you work for pounds
18:43:07 <kmc> where in poland are you?
18:44:07 <kmc> i was in poland briefly in august
18:44:11 <kmc> didn't make it that far west though
18:44:28 <nooga> where have you been?
18:44:30 <kmc> it's crazy how much housing prices differ by area
18:44:54 <kmc> my parents have a nice big four bedroom house in suburban iowa and I think their mortgage is about the same per month that I pay to rent one bedroom in cambridge massachusetts
18:45:49 <kmc> i was in kraków and warszawa
18:46:12 <kmc> and surrounding areas
18:46:12 <nooga> kraków is nice and warszawa is awful
18:46:23 <kmc> that's kinda what i thought too
18:46:44 <kmc> i saw the wieliczka salt mine
18:46:46 <kmc> that was really cool
18:47:29 <nooga> yeah, been there too
18:50:12 * nooga has never been to USA
18:50:26 <nooga> but I'm working on fixing that
18:50:34 <kmc> cool, where will you go?
18:50:35 * FreeFull has been to two salt mines. Wieliczka and Bochnia
18:51:34 <shachaf> nooga: That's the place to be!
18:52:07 <nooga> sillicon valley :D
18:52:15 <kmc> san francisco is really nice
18:52:29 <nooga> i'm working on some tech for language pattern recognition and I was invited
18:52:35 <kmc> silicon valley is south of there and I don't think there's much to see if you don't have friends working there
18:52:45 <nooga> our guys have founded a company there
18:52:47 <kmc> there are a few interesting computery museums down that way
18:52:57 <nooga> that's what i'm waiting for :D
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18:53:38 <lambdabot> luite says: I'm really interested in both practice and theory of optics and wave mechanics, so I'll be coming over from Europe for Edward's lecture on lenses and transversals.
18:54:07 <itidus21> hello guys! just taking a break from here.. just joined by muscle memory since i join all rooms manually
18:54:48 <nooga> muscle memory huh? :D
18:55:47 <nooga> btw. I wonder when was the first time I joined this fine channel
18:55:58 <nooga> something around... uh... 2005?
18:58:10 <itidus21> the the most interesting thing i have been trying to do is to take a bitmap which could be viewed as an image in black and white, and compress it into colours
18:58:23 <fizzie> [2004-12-23 10:04:58] -!- VonTroba is now known as nooga
18:59:09 <fizzie> With a join just 17 seconds before.
18:59:29 <itidus21> i'm curious in such things as to whether it's possible for human brain to learn to see simple shapes as colours
19:00:44 <itidus21> one particularly interesting part is that only the edges of things really change colours
19:01:05 <nooga> can you provide an example?
19:01:20 <itidus21> ill show my paint image.. its a bit ridiculous
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19:06:33 <itidus21> it's this http://oi49.tinypic.com/35hlsh0.jpg
19:08:00 <FreeFull> itidus21: Can you do better than 8 pixels per byte raw B&W data?
19:12:07 <itidus21> humm.. my theory is that using 2 or 3 bits per pixel like that that it would be possible to learn to watch objects move by changing colour
19:12:43 <itidus21> beyond that, it was just a weird idea i had to try
19:13:30 <itidus21> i guess even in black and white objects move by changing colour
19:14:30 <itidus21> with 24bits it could represent 16 million patterns per pixel of course
19:20:35 <nooga> definately human brain can comprehend that
19:22:19 <olsner> yeah, the human brain is like smart
19:23:28 <itidus21> i was thinking about the way resolution affects the number of frames in an animation
19:23:35 <itidus21> and then i ended up on that ..
19:25:04 <itidus21> to be honest i think images compressed by colour would be nightmare fuel
19:28:27 <nooga> http://attrition.org/errata/charlatan/hakin9/nmap.html lfmao
19:29:33 <nooga> "Furthermore, we reduced the effective tape drive throughput of our stochastic overlay network. Similarly, we tripled the effective floppy disk space of our Internet-2 overlay network."
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19:40:38 <nooga> https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:_j0_-BRo0MAJ:raisama.net/ufpr/tg/paper.pdf+&hl=pl&gl=pl&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESivOHOM_O0aEfZ-Wn_XOroe2qgQBYM2XLaGHn75VcvILppGL9BrWLyhX124vxLTxQJL3_GNMAAqhrdoUN-Qv_VkT78Utvb8edLqnMQ8EBlOrDS1QlLt6h8HooGIqL9AppSDbZun&sig=AHIEtbRjm2-pxwjJXi3NaH-FXk2vqaZPyQ LULZ
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21:08:10 <atriq> itidus21, I've missed you!
21:08:11 <lambdabot> atriq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
21:10:59 <lambdabot> atriq: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
21:11:10 <atriq> I've replaced the "Hello" with a different hello
21:23:34 <atriq> Is there a term for the restriction of brainfuck where comments and whitespace aren't allowed?
21:30:08 <Gregor> Yes, it's called ++++++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++>+><<<<-]>.>++.<-.++++++++.+++++.--------.>+++.<---.++++++++.>>----.
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21:45:17 <atriq> Goodnight, everyone
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22:31:51 <kmc> branfuck has 800% your daily recommended allowance of dietary fiber
22:32:44 <Gregor> When absorbed via the penis, that's about 80%!
22:32:56 <kmc> no it's over 9000%
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22:51:53 <elliott> kmc: more like dietary fuckber
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22:56:18 <Gregor> #esoteric: From any topic to gay porn in three steps or less.
22:59:46 <pikhq> That seems like an abusable property.
23:00:36 <pikhq> Like, say, next time someone needs to fill a gay porn folder.
23:15:02 <pikhq> But lazy is what I do best
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