00:00:56 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 
00:01:50 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 
00:10:19 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 
00:24:40 -!- monqy has joined. 
00:29:26 <monqy> i beat you to the punch this time 
00:33:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 
00:36:36 -!- itidus21 has left ("Leaving"). 
00:43:39 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 
01:01:28 -!- zzo38 has joined. 
01:04:33 <zzo38> Does this Haskell type meaningful anything to you (I wrote it while trying to figure out something else):  (forall y. forall z r. (x -> Cont r z) -> Cont r ((z -> x') -> y)) -> y) 
01:05:44 <Sgeo> Oh hey itidus was here 
01:22:36 -!- Wntrvnm has left ("http://wintervenom.github.com - http://wintervenom.us.to"). 
01:28:14 -!- heroux has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 
01:30:25 <zzo38> The control schemes I like for platform games are using the shift keys to move, space to jump, and any of Z X C V B N M , . / to shoot. 
01:30:43 <zzo38> However I know only of a few games implementing this. 
01:50:13 -!- Jafet has joined. 
02:01:08 <kmc> http://i.imgur.com/bFXM6.jpg 
02:04:28 <shachaf> zzo38: That's not good because you might accidentally press both Shift keys at the same time. 
02:04:33 <shachaf> Then it'll change your keyboard layout. 
02:22:05 <zzo38> shachaf: It was a DOS program so it didn't do that, and anyways it won't change the keyboard layout if you don't have it configured like that 
02:25:10 <Sgeo> Am I allowed to slap library writers who don't understand the most advertised feature of the language they're writing a library in? 
02:25:19 <Sgeo> Incanter uses STM, but uses it wrongly. 
02:25:29 <pikhq> Do tell? And, yes. 
02:27:45 <Sgeo> The defop function in incanter.infix alters several refs, but each alteration is in its own dosync block 
02:27:56 <Sgeo> https://github.com/liebke/incanter/blob/master/modules/incanter-core/src/incanter/infix.clj#L42 
02:28:15 <Sgeo> If there are several ... hold on, I have deja vu 
02:28:18 <kmc> and you're sure they intended for it to be atomic? 
02:28:33 <Sgeo> I don't know if they intended for it to be anything 
02:29:47 <Sgeo> Hmm, when I was reading it before, I thought there could be a negative consequence, but looking at it now, I don't think so 
02:30:36 <kmc> it seems like more transactions might have higher overhead and lower uncontended throughput, but fewer big transactions might have more likelihood of livelock 
02:30:45 <kmc> that's just a vague guess 
02:30:57 <kmc> also it might not be correct for Clojure because their STM implementation is not lockless 
02:32:11 <Sgeo> Even if that last dosync runs later, it's still finding the highest value in the precedence table and putting it in highest precedence 
02:34:17 -!- Bike has joined. 
02:40:56 -!- heroux has joined. 
02:53:37 <zzo38> My team has 24 winning streak so far. 
02:54:17 <shachaf> My team has 25 winning streak. 
02:54:25 <shachaf> I think I win this one, zzo38. 
02:55:48 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 
02:56:10 <zzo38> Regardless of winning streak you might win or lose. 
02:56:23 <zzo38> I beat someone with more winning streak than I have. 
02:58:28 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 
03:01:32 <shachaf> zzo38: Did you play Zork Zero? 
03:03:27 <shachaf> zzo38: That's a good game. 
03:05:35 -!- mig22 has joined. 
03:05:43 <quintopia> you should play trial of the clone 
03:10:44 <Sgeo> Wait, Chrome just goes ahead and downloads a .exe but warns me that .jars can harm my computer? 
03:11:48 <zzo38> Perhaps you did not configure it? 
03:12:14 <shachaf> zzo38: Did you play Double Fanucci? 
03:12:52 <zzo38> I don't have any cards to play Double Fanucci. 
03:12:59 <shachaf> What about in the computer? 
03:14:21 <Sgeo> Eww, the Incanter executable ships with Clojure 1.2 
03:37:50 <zzo38> This sentence claims to be an Epimenides Paradox, but it is lying. 
03:51:00 <kmc> zzo38: I don't believe you 
03:52:41 <zzo38> I don't believe me either! 
04:12:59 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 
04:22:48 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 
04:25:59 -!- monqy has joined. 
04:28:28 -!- FreeFull has quit. 
04:32:14 -!- donmarquis has joined. 
04:32:34 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 
04:32:59 <shachaf> @ask elliott what did the message say 
04:43:13 -!- donmarquis has quit (Quit: Leaving). 
04:45:11 -!- elliott has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 
04:49:20 <shachaf> http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/Agda/latest/doc/html/src/Agda-Auto-Auto.html#auto 
04:50:17 <pikhq> Hmm. National Coming Out Day. *shrug* Guess I'll use the last hour of it to say "I'm bi", though I think I might have said that previously here? 
04:50:20 <pikhq> Feh, not that it matters. 
04:50:27 <pikhq> No real IRC sexytimes here. 
04:50:34 <pikhq> Maybe some rape of the brain. 
04:50:46 <shachaf> pikhq: I didn't know you were a functor. 
04:50:53 <pikhq> shachaf: Smartass. 
04:52:50 <zzo38> My Dungeons&Dragons player has played Double Fanucci, though, but lost five perica (a form of currency in the Japanese manga "Kaiji", used by underground slave colony, worth one tenth of one yen) at it. 
04:54:15 <zzo38> shachaf: Did you know if you were a functor? 
04:54:27 <zzo38> Is it a endofunctor? 
04:55:10 <pikhq> Glad to see everyone here has appropriate levels of apathy about sexuality. 
04:59:35 <Sgeo> Agda.Utils.Impossible 
05:01:09 <kmc> hey all our brainfucking is strictly consensual 
05:01:16 <kmc> brainfucking and brickbraining too 
05:01:53 <pikhq> Malbolge touched me in naughty places 
05:02:01 <kmc> malbolge is kinky 
05:02:23 -!- monqy has left. 
05:04:07 <zzo38> Astronomical twilight is of importance in this Dungeons&Dragons game now. 
05:08:36 <zzo38> To win this game, we have to take advantage of everything, including the phase of the moon. 
05:14:51 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/11cmsi/paul_ryan_admits_romney_win_would_lead_to_world/ if I ever needed any proof that Democrats can sensationalize things too 
05:15:47 <pikhq> But everyone knows $other is evil, and $us is good! 
05:16:07 <pikhq> And that's why I should be supreme overlord of everything. 
05:16:16 <pikhq> I am your overlord! 
05:20:47 <zzo38> I think there should be no supreme overlord of everything. But maybe some thing, OK 
05:21:42 <pikhq> "There is no life, truth, intelligence, nor substance in matter. All is infinite Mind and its infinite manifestation, for God is All-in-all. Spirit is immortal Truth; matter is mortal error. Spirit is the real and eternal; matter is the unreal and temporal. Spirit is God, and man is His image and likeness. Therefore man is not material; he is spiritual." 
05:21:52 <pikhq> Christian Science is weirder than I thought. 
05:22:22 <zzo38> How is that Christian or science? 
05:22:44 <pikhq> Beats me, but that's Christian Science for you. 
05:24:04 <pikhq> Bike: Given that it suggests that *matter* is not *real*? Yeah, that's weird. 
05:24:33 <Bike> it's just platonism. 
05:25:35 <pikhq> Most religious folk go for dualism. Y'know, where minds are magic. 
05:26:16 <Bike> or "spirits", here. 
05:29:56 <pikhq> Point is, it's gibberish that's either false or devoid of meaning, and I find it deserving of mockery. 
05:30:21 * Sgeo finds anything that tells people to reject modern medicine as deserving of utmost hatred. 
05:30:45 <Bike> oh, go for it.  I just meant that it's old and venerable 
05:31:04 <pikhq> That Plato came up with it first doesn't mean shit. :) 
05:31:22 <pikhq> Only silly people think Plato was actually right about everything. 
05:31:50 <pikhq> He just managed to think about things before a lot of other people is all, really. 
05:35:03 <zzo38> Some people are monism other are dualism, but my opinion is I think monism and dualism are both wrong. 
05:35:56 <pikhq> What do you think is right? 
05:38:06 <zzo38> I think the mind, matter, are one with the universe, so really everything is one with the universe, however, the universe itself is just mathematics, which includes things other than those which might be physical. All is mathematics. However, even the universe may be exist just because people observe, and yet the people exist because is part of universe, it is something like a causality loop. 
05:39:19 <zzo38> Of course this is just philosophy, including of metaphysics and stuff like that, not reality. However, it is my opinion based on what I know about physics. 
05:40:08 <oklofok> i think there's a bit turtle whose poop is planets 
05:42:33 <zzo38> Because if nothing exists, then something might exist there is nothing to make nothing to exist! As someone has said, they couldn't decide whether nothing or something to exist, so they decided to toss a coin. But to toss a coin, it has to exist, so the choice is already made for them. Something exists because something is a cheater. Of course this is all metaphorical, but the point stands. 
05:44:02 <zzo38> This recording of the Dungeons&Dragons game (I have typed out the Oct.9 session today) contains footnotes such as "Why does Kjugobe's note have a reference to a footnote in this book?" 
05:44:17 <pikhq> zzo38: That sounds essentially like philosophical materialism, combined with the idea that the universe is a lawful place, combined with the idea that the simulation hypothesis is valid, and the idea that that simulation doesn't really need to be *run* for the universe to exist in some sense. 
05:44:29 <pikhq> ... Bit of a conjugation of ideas there, but eh 
05:45:44 <zzo38> I think it is not a simulation, but mathematics. Some mathematics may be uncomputable. In addition, some equations may have multiple solutions or no solution. And then, there are even more complexities than this. It doesn't necessarily all correspond to physical objects, even though all is the same mathematics. 
05:45:59 <zzo38> So they are the same as the ones that do. 
05:46:28 <pikhq> So, let's sum that up a bit more cleanly. 
05:46:49 <pikhq> "The universe can be expressed mathematically." 
05:47:11 <pikhq> That's... Basically materialism, isn't it/ 
05:48:00 <zzo38> I think it is like materialism but my ideas have some differences and more things too. But I don't know "materialism" exactly. 
05:48:52 <pikhq> "Materialism" in the modern sense is more-or-less "All that is, is physics." 
05:49:19 <pikhq> (there's technically other sorts, but that's the sort most people really care about) 
05:49:49 <pikhq> s/most people/most people who discuss ontology/ :P 
05:55:41 -!- kinoSi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 
05:56:08 -!- kinoSi has joined. 
06:54:13 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 
06:57:07 -!- nooga has joined. 
06:59:15 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: (dyn)). 
07:04:06 -!- mig22 has quit (Quit: mig22). 
07:20:08 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 
07:44:30 -!- mig22 has joined. 
07:55:15 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 
08:01:18 -!- monqy has joined. 
08:13:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 
08:18:18 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 
08:22:42 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 
08:42:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 
08:48:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 
09:12:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 
09:22:51 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 
09:23:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 
09:23:49 <ais523> so, randomly-walking brainfuck 
09:24:03 <ais523> I think that it's TC given arbitrary control flow (conditional goto is enough) 
09:24:13 <ais523> but it seems very difficult to convert that to [] loops 
09:43:47 -!- ais523_ has joined. 
09:43:48 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 
09:50:01 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 
09:55:43 -!- kinoSi has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 
09:56:10 -!- kinoSi has joined. 
10:06:13 -!- ais523_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 
10:06:19 -!- ais523_ has joined. 
10:11:06 -!- Jafet has joined. 
10:43:29 -!- ais523_ has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:43:42 -!- kmc has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:43:42 -!- Slereah_ has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- nortti has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- mroman has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- oklofok has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- glogbackup has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- nooga has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- atehwa has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- Nisstyre has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- tswett has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:31 -!- kallisti has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:36 -!- lambdabot has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:40 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:46 -!- Jafet has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:48 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:52 -!- ion has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:44:54 -!- Cryovat has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- sirdancealot7 has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- TeruFSX_ has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- constant has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- epicmonkey has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- Sanky has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- FireFly has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- TodPunk has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:09 -!- chickenzilla has quit (*.net *.split). 
10:46:28 -!- kinoSi0 has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- ais523_ has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- glogbackup has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- Jafet has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- ais523 has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- nooga has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- heroux has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- copumpkin has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- augur has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- pikhq has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- TeruFSX_ has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- yiyus has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- tswett has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- kmc has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- Sanky has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- jix has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- myndzi has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- constant has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- FireFly has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- oklofok has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- nortti has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- atehwa has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- Deewiant has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- mroman has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- EgoBot has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- TodPunk has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- ion has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- quintopia has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- lambdabot has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- kallisti has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- fizzie has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- Gregor has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- Cryovat has joined. 
10:47:11 -!- chickenzilla has joined. 
10:47:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 
10:47:23 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 
10:47:32 -!- glogbackup has left. 
10:47:32 <ais523> fizzie: through a NAT and the University's firewall? 
10:47:32 <fizzie> ais523: It's what all the popups say. 
10:47:32 -!- kinoSi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 
10:47:32 <ais523> computers always send their IP whenever they contact anything, unless you spoof it (in which case you don't get a reply) 
10:47:32 <ais523> although "broadcast" is a little different 
10:47:32 <fizzie> BROADCASTING an IP ADDRESS and HACKING, I tell you. 
10:47:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host). 
10:47:32 -!- ais523 has joined. 
10:47:32 <ais523> btw, both freenode and synirc were netsplitted at the same time 
10:47:32 <ais523> I wonder if it was for the same reason? 
10:48:37 <fizzie> That's funny, IRCnet was slightly, too. 
10:49:12 <fizzie> At least approximately at the same time; maybe it was slightly earlier. 
10:49:14 <fizzie> 13:38 -!- Netsplit *.pl <-> ircnet.eversible.com 
10:49:33 <fizzie> Eversible is somewhere in the states (united), I believe. 
10:50:01 <fizzie> fungot: You awake? I think you're connected to some us server too, right? 
10:50:02 <fungot> fizzie: i think she turned around but why? can i spend my time solving different kinds of numbers. i do. see: fnord/ fnord 
10:50:30 <fizzie> Solving different kinds of numbers sounds like a reasonable hobby for a computer program. 
10:59:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 
11:01:17 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 
11:12:38 <fizzie> Ah ha, more splittery on the IRCnet side. 
11:12:46 <fizzie> Someone must have it against IRC networks today. 
11:19:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 
11:27:07 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 
11:27:30 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 
11:56:47 -!- augur has joined. 
12:07:05 -!- boily has joined. 
12:39:50 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 
12:48:45 -!- nooga has joined. 
13:21:57 -!- elliott has joined. 
13:51:19 <ion> http://austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2012-10-10/44722/Holy_Shit 
15:06:52 <kmc> always amusing when a food is labeled "96% fat free" 
15:06:58 <kmc> sounds better than "4% fat" 
15:08:34 <shachaf> It means you're only paying for 4% of the fat. 
15:08:40 <shachaf> The rest is subsidized by the non-fat. 
15:08:43 <kmc> what a deal 
15:10:04 <shachaf> elliott: @shachaf, I assume that you were referring to my answer (correct me if I am wrong). Yes it does copy the array first and then does the in-place shuffle, however, fixing this is simply exchanging thaw with unsafethaw 
15:12:55 <elliott> shachaf: If the implicit question is whether HaskellElephant ever says anything that makes sense, the answer is no. 
15:14:25 <elliott> Come on, you literally just quoted them. 
15:14:43 <shachaf> Yes, but in the grander scheme. 
15:18:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 
15:19:10 <elliott> Some person who posts bad Haskell questions on SO. 
15:19:12 <elliott> shachaf: I like ilango's answer. 
15:19:19 <elliott> I like it so much I'm going to click the "delete" button on it. 
15:19:45 <shachaf> You have magical delete powers? 
15:21:01 <elliott> Needs two more votes to make it happen though. 
15:21:38 <shachaf> elliott: Memorized any good codepoints lately? 
15:23:06 <shachaf>  I woke up before 08:00 today. 
15:34:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 
15:35:27 -!- atriq has joined. 
15:35:28 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 
15:35:43 <atriq> I also just got here 
16:20:16 <Sgeo> Is the HHGG TV series better than the movie? 
16:21:46 <olsner> is there a new tv series to go with the recent(ish?) movie, an old movie to go with the old tv series, or neither? 
16:22:47 <olsner> ok, then I don't know because I haven't seen the tv series 
16:23:05 <olsner> but I think the movie can be watched in HD, so it must be better 
16:27:47 <Sgeo> The acting's a bit iffy 
16:27:52 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMoi-nDd6cQ 
16:28:52 <elliott> the bbc h2g2 series is good 
16:29:43 <Sgeo> That's what I linked I think? 
16:32:10 <Sgeo> I still think the acting's iffy 
16:33:49 <elliott> i don't remember anything about it, only that it was good 
16:34:09 <olsner> I think I like the book the best 
16:40:20 <Sgeo> I should probably buy And Another Thing at some point 
16:41:40 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 
16:48:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 
16:49:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 
16:50:39 -!- mig22 has quit (Quit: mig22). 
16:52:37 -!- augur has joined. 
16:56:50 <Sgeo> I think the reason I'm not laughing that much is because I pretty much know all the jokes 
16:57:17 <FreeFull> I bet there are plenty of new kinds of joke that would make you laugh 
17:09:25 <Arc_Koen> do you know that joke about the people who knew all the jokes? 
17:10:12 <Arc_Koen> there's a village somewhere where everyone knows all the jokes 
17:10:42 <Arc_Koen> in the local pub, occasionally someone exlaims "joke #46!" 
17:10:55 <Arc_Koen> and everyone would burst out laughing 
17:11:19 <Arc_Koen> but one day, a guy exclaims "joke #32!" 
17:11:41 <Arc_Koen> so that guy says "yeah, I've never known how to tell that joke." 
17:17:35 -!- ssue has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 
17:22:12 <zzo38> Try a number that is not in range 
17:25:14 <Gregor> And the fact that there were only 52 jokes when they declared that one #67 is, itself, #53. 
17:36:24 -!- ogrom has joined. 
17:37:33 -!- atriq has joined. 
17:38:48 <zzo38> I mean something other than a positive integer. 
17:39:11 <atriq> I wonder if Bill Bryson reads Homestuck 
17:39:24 <shachaf> zzo38: What if you try an unnameable real number? 
17:40:32 <atriq> zzo38, if they tried a number that is not a natural number, they'd get confused by your surrealist humour 
17:40:44 <atriq> 2+7i is a very complex joke 
17:40:59 <atriq> -4 is a bit negative 
17:44:16 <Gregor> (lim(x->infinity) 1/x) isn't very funny. 
17:44:45 <Sgeo> fwiw, my original statement was in the context of knowing the jokes used in HHGG 
17:45:20 <olsner> no-one respects context in here 
17:46:20 <Sgeo> No wonder Smalltalk isn't very well used in here; everyone disrespects thisContext. 
17:47:17 <elliott> Sgeo: ps what. who is bill bryson even. 
17:47:31 <atriq> elliott, non fiction author who is currently in hexham 
17:47:44 <kmc> why is bill bryson in hexham 
17:47:51 <Sgeo> elliott, why are you asking me who Bill Bryson is? 
17:47:59 <olsner> non-(fiction author who is currently in hexham) 
17:48:07 <atriq> He is in Hexham for the single purpose of beating me 
17:48:14 <elliott> can you guys stop having nicks of the same length 
17:48:21 <elliott> ok the same length give or take one 
17:48:36 -!- atriq has changed nick to atriqWhoIsTanebA. 
17:48:42 <elliott> atriqWhoIsTanebA: beating you at what 
17:48:44 <olsner> hey, none of us has the same nick length as any other participant 
17:48:55 -!- atriqWhoIsTanebA has changed nick to atriq. 
17:49:09 <atriq> elliott, other definition of "beating" 
17:49:13 <Sgeo> If by participant you mean chatting person 
17:49:23 <Sgeo> Because boily and augur have nicks length 5 
17:49:34 <atriq> http://www.hexhamcourant.co.uk/news/man-killed-by-falling-tree-1.1004001?referrerPath=news 
17:49:35 <olsner> I was only counting everyone after the "who is bill bryson even" line 
17:49:48 <shachaf> Wait, Hexham actually exists? 
17:49:59 <olsner> shachaf: no it doesn't 
17:50:09 <olsner> even imaginary places have newspapers duh 
17:50:16 <HackEgo> Hexham is a European town. There are nine people in Hexham, and at least two of them are in this channel. Taneb looks after the ham. 
17:50:31 -!- boily has changed nick to not5nick. 
17:50:50 <atriq> A Taneb is kinda like an atriq, but younger 
17:50:56 <HackEgo> boily may be French or something.  We are not sure about the rest. 
17:51:09 <not5nick> I'm not boily, because I don't have a 5-length nick :p 
17:51:23 <elliott> does everyone in the channel have a different nick length now 
17:51:27 * not5nick is not sure about the effectiveness of his subtle camouflage 
17:51:39 <olsner> elliott: yes, everyone 
17:51:53 <Sgeo> I can only assume that log is not an everyone. 
17:51:56 <lambdabot> JohnyBoy says: so have a nice goodspeed 
17:51:59 <zzo38> But your username is given as "~boily" and I can see your NICK command above too 
17:52:18 <atriq> elliott and shachaf are the same length 
17:52:31 <olsner> it's not completely obvious since the displayed nick lengths are rounded to the closest integer 
17:52:33 <atriq> This clearly means they are one and the same! 
17:52:50 <Sgeo> (swap! olsner inc) 
17:53:03 <elliott> `addquote <olsner> it's not completely obvious since the displayed nick lengths are rounded to the closest integer 
17:53:04 <lambdabot> butt2 says: "I'd butt linux on the butt, I'd like to give buttad a try" 
17:53:06 <HackEgo> 871) <olsner> it's not completely obvious since the displayed nick lengths are rounded to the closest integer 
17:53:09 <zzo38> atriq: Not only are "elliott" and "shachaf" the same length, but so are the usernames and cloaks 
17:53:18 <atriq> Hence Hexham is in Finland, hence I'm in Finland! 
17:53:45 <zzo38> I released version 5 of FurryScript with a few bugfixes, and added documentation for some commands: RSC ALL GEN ARG TR TR- TRB TRB- REX REX- REX+ RNG LAH 
17:53:55 <shachaf> elliott: no im shachaf!!!!!! 
17:54:21 <Sgeo> olsner, Clojure. If olsner is an atom, it atomically changes what the atom contains to (inc @olsner) 
17:54:45 <kmc> http://docs.python.org/library/doctest.html is cute 
17:54:47 <shachaf> elliott: You turn into shachaf at the full moon? 
17:54:58 <olsner> atomically changing an atom, that sounds good 
17:55:00 * Sgeo was going to say that but in a worse way 
17:55:05 <shachaf> 10:55 <Rodney> The Moon is Waning Crescent (10% of Full).  New moon in NetHack in 2 days. 
17:55:26 <olsner> but what's (inc @olsner)? 
17:55:39 <zzo38> Good things then, I have the phase of moon and all ephemeris of all planets in my computer. 
17:55:53 <Sgeo> @ is a bit of reader syntax that will expand to (deref olsner) 
17:55:58 <atriq> Which are the phases of the moon that are viewable mid-afternoon 
17:56:04 <atriq> I'm overthinking a song I heard once 
17:56:16 <olsner> why do I need to be dereffed before incorporation? 
17:56:22 -!- variable has joined. 
17:56:39 <Sgeo> (deref (atom 10)) ; 10 
17:56:59 <zzo38> atriq: I don't know, maybe half moon? 
17:57:19 <shachaf> zzo38: Maybe a Zork Zero Moon. 
17:57:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 
17:58:30 <zzo38> I have seen the Zork calendar, with various strange phase of moon 
17:58:46 <shachaf> Dimwit's Birthday Observed. 
17:59:13 <zzo38> Every Thursday, yes... But it is Friday today. 
17:59:25 <atriq> Aaah, a waxing moon 
18:00:11 <olsner> iirc, I was last setting up some boring stuff that'd allow running specific test-case programs on a fresh-booted kernel with qemu 
18:00:21 <shachaf> zzo38: No, Zork Zero is shifted by one day. 
18:00:46 <olsner> oh, and that either requires qemu built from git because some stuff is broken, or a bunch of boring workarounds in my code 
18:00:54 <zzo38> shachaf: O, is that because of the different leap years? 
18:01:23 <shachaf> I was just making things up. 
18:01:26 <zzo38> In the mid-afternoon perhaps the sun is in the 8th house, so perhaps the moon would be in the 11th house then, so it would be waxing half moon, if visible in the mid afternoon. 
18:02:02 <zzo38> (Since they move counterclockwise around the zodiac) 
18:02:20 <zzo38> (that is, forward.) 
18:04:07 <shachaf> I think clockwise is forward, zzo38. 
18:04:13 <shachaf> Have you ever looked at a clock? 
18:04:46 <zzo38> On a clock, yes, clockwise is forward. However, on a horoscope, the angle increases counterclockwise. 
18:04:57 -!- Gregor has set topic: BEWARE THE Ø̈RJANIST MØ̈Ø̈SE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | God made the natural numbers; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | Channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | http://esolangs.org/wiki. 
18:05:07 <zzo38> (that is, ecliptic longitude) 
18:05:36 -!- zzo38 has set topic: BEWARE THE RJANIST MSE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | God made the natural numbers; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | Channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 
18:05:59 <zzo38> Oops I forgot one letter 
18:06:13 -!- zzo38 has set topic: BEWARE THE ORJANIST MOOSE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | God made the natural numbers; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | Channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 
18:06:24 <zzo38> Oops I forgot the slash 
18:07:00 <olsner> organist moose, now that's a sight 
18:07:20 -!- Gregor has set topic: I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 
18:07:23 <kmc> beware the onanist moose 
18:07:40 <kmc> why are the channel logs now naked grandmas? 
18:07:52 -!- zzo38 has set topic: BEWARE THE O/RJANIST MO/O/SE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | God made the natural numbers; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | Channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 
18:08:02 <Gregor> kmc: shadyurl.com = best URL shortener 
18:08:14 <elliott> zzo38: Why did you duplicate the log link in the topic? 
18:08:28 <olsner> oh, and someone should make a new zardoz joke 
18:08:29 <Sgeo> Why does MyWOT dislike 5z8.info 
18:08:37 <zzo38> elliott: I did not duplicate it. Now you have both the picture and text logs. 
18:08:56 <elliott> you're too biased to windows-centric file extensions, zzo38!! 
18:09:00 <shachaf> It's a Clojure thing, isn't it? 
18:09:11 <zzo38> Well, I didn't look so I don't know, I just know that .jpg is usually a picture (regardless of operating system). 
18:09:41 -!- Gregor has set topic: BEWARE THE O/RJANIST MO/O/SE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | ZARDOZ created ZARDOZ; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | Channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | http://esolangs.org/wiki. 
18:09:42 <shachaf> zzo38: @ uses .jpg to hold filesystem metadata. 
18:09:53 <olsner> someone should've made that link point to naked grandmas after people had been taught it was just a link to the logs 
18:10:41 <Sgeo> Bluh, shadyurl doesn't like data URLs 
18:10:53 <atriq> I'm analysing a song from a children's TV show completely out of context 
18:11:19 <zzo38> Sgeo: Then don't use shadyurl, if it doesn't like data URLs. 
18:12:09 -!- zzo38 has set topic: BEWARE THE O/RJANIST MO/O/SE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | God made the natural numbers; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | Channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 
18:12:19 <zzo38> Hay why did you remove the log 
18:12:43 -!- zzo38 has set topic: BEWARE THE O/RJANIST MO/O/SE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | ZARDOZ created ZARDOZ; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | Channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 
18:12:53 <Gregor> zzo38 has a serious case of Not Getting the Joke, even though the joke was inspired by him. 
18:13:01 <Sgeo> zzo38, because it was there, but just looked different 
18:13:42 <Sgeo> shachaf, Web of Trust thingy, people vote on whether domains are suspicious or not 
18:13:54 <Sgeo> Sometimes people suck, but I do tend to rely on it 
18:14:05 <shachaf> 5z8.info is very suspicious. 
18:14:11 <shachaf> That's not even a valid z-encoding! 
18:14:23 <kmc> xn--5z8.info 
18:14:43 <Sgeo> http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/geocities.com 
18:15:06 <Sgeo> Just ... read the comments 
18:15:10 <zzo38> Well, it is a redirect but not a very good one, it says "expected /hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpgsplit Arrayshort hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpgQUERYhookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg" on it! 
18:15:30 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 
18:15:43 <olsner> searching for z-encoding gave me "Zen Coding is a set of plug-ins for text editors that allow for high-speed coding and editing in HTML, XML, XSL, [...]" 
18:15:52 -!- augur has joined. 
18:16:01 <olsner> but to be fair, the second hit was the ghc commentary 
18:16:29 <Gregor> “Zen” and “XML” should not be allowed in the same sentence. 
18:16:40 <zzo38> Then fix it to use xn--5z8.info if you think 5z8.info is no good 
18:16:50 <Gregor> Except to say “those who have written XML can never achieve Zen.” 
18:17:00 <zzo38> Gregor: Are you sure? 
18:17:19 <Deewiant> https://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info 
18:17:23 <atriq> I thought the path to Zen was avoiding Zen 
18:17:36 <Deewiant> Where does it get the value from? I doubt someone's actually voted for that 
18:18:23 <elliott> it's almost as if you can't trust web of trust 
18:19:14 <atriq> ...I'm analysing a Eurobeat fansong of a children's TV show 
18:19:16 <Deewiant> It's also got a higher score than the more normal domain name https://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/www.phlamethrower.co.uk 
18:19:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 
18:19:38 <atriq> NOW I MUST LEAVE FOREVER OR AT LEAST UNTIL PROBABLY TOMORROW EVENING 
18:19:39 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving). 
18:19:50 <Deewiant> Even though in the latter case it claims to know where the server is, unlike the former 
18:22:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 
18:28:57 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 
18:35:39 <Sgeo> Maybe someone did vote for it 
18:36:17 <Sgeo> The plugin doesn't really do exact numbers 
18:36:26 <elliott> yeah all those befunge haters on the internet 
18:37:01 -!- zzo38 has set topic: BEWARE THE O/RJANIST MO/O/SE | I, for one, welcome our new hash function overlords | E5081A06F9E364E179B336A2C6D6831D4B50CD7739C7E1565E03EBF2 | ZARDOZ created ZARDOZ; all else is the work of ZARDOZ | New channel logs: http://5z8.info/hookers_j0l4yf_nakedgrandmas.jpg | Old-style channel logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 
18:37:16 <kmc> i am arthur frayne, and i am zardoz 
18:38:03 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 
18:38:22 <kmc> i see "MOH/OH/SE" where the H's are reverse video which I guess means they are ^H? 
18:38:47 <kmc> oh i get it 
18:39:09 <zzo38> kmc: They are supposed to be backspace 
18:39:12 <olsner> ah, that thing where you use backspace to put characters on top of each other? 
18:39:49 <zzo38> My computer shows them black-on-purple on the screen, but displays the slashed O properly on the printout. 
18:40:01 <Sgeo> For me it just says MO/O/SE 
18:40:01 <kmc> do you print out hardcopy logs of IRC? 
18:40:09 <zzo38> (I mean the "H" with black on purple; the rest of the text in blue) 
18:40:23 <Sgeo> kmc, you don't? 
18:40:24 <olsner> kmc: yes, and then he OCRs them and puts them on gopher 
18:40:40 <kmc> at one point i had a dot matrix printer as my linux system console 
18:40:56 <kmc> to diagnose a bug which crashed the graphics card 
18:41:05 <kmc> it slowed down the boot process quite a bit 
18:41:57 <kmc> not on the printer 
18:43:47 <olsner> but why would you use an actual printer instead of e.g. connecting a null modem cable to another computer? 
18:44:44 <shachaf> Reaching the billionth decimal digit of pi could help technologists and mathematicians because they can use the equation to create random number sequences. Random numbers are a driving force behind computer security, including everyday consumer-level protections, like in electronic banking. 
18:45:00 <kmc> because i didn't have another computer 
18:45:25 <kmc> or didn't have a null modem cable, or something 
18:45:28 <kmc> i don't remember exactly 
18:45:54 <kmc> more recently i have used netconsole for this 
18:46:10 <zzo38> Can ARCFOUR be used for random number generator, though? 
18:46:30 <olsner> kmc: but you did have a dot matrix printer? 
18:46:30 <zzo38> I don't think pi is best for random number since pi is always the same for everyone. 
18:46:51 <shachaf> zzo38: The question is whether your computer is fast enough to compute it farther than anyone else. 
18:46:56 <kmc> olsner: yes 
18:47:07 <shachaf> That's why we build supercomputers. 
18:47:32 <Deewiant> RC4 has been used in some BSDs as (part of) a random number generator, IIRC. 
18:47:40 <zzo38> shachaf: What you have to do is to make the computer reprogram its own hardware to calculate billion digits of pi 
18:48:38 * shachaf likes the idea of a world where randomness is a scarce resource that has to be mined and such. 
18:49:20 <zzo38> Deewiant: As part of? What other part did they use, then? 
18:49:25 <shachaf> I guess the idea of people who carry one-time pad data is related. 
18:50:15 <Arc_Koen> http://samuelhughes.com/boof/ has "If the end-of-file character has been input, outputs a zero to the bit under the pointer." as part of the description of the ; (output) instruction 
18:50:19 <Deewiant> zzo38: I don't know, that's why it was in brackets. Perhaps it was the whole thing and there were no other parts. 
18:50:43 <Arc_Koen> do you think it's just a mistake and should be part of , (input) or is it some special feature? 
18:51:20 <olsner> shachaf: hmm... but the tricky part about one-time pad data is that you need the same randomness in two places, not that you need to collect a bunch of random? 
18:52:41 <shachaf> olsner: Right, it's not the same thing. 
18:53:36 <olsner> in this randomscarce world of yours, would one random bit be a reasonable christmas present? 
18:53:54 <zzo38> Deewiant: As it turns out, Famicom Hangman uses not only RC4 but also fails to initialize i and j (so it uses whatever happens to be in RAM at power on) and uses the microphone, and it runs several times per frame until the space-bar is pushed. 
18:54:08 <fizzie> A friend and I once collected a CD's worth of random, to be used as a one-time pad in conjunction with an irssi script. 
18:54:15 <shachaf> olsner: Only if kept it wrapped. 
18:54:19 <fizzie> Sadly, it never really got used. 
18:54:55 <olsner> shachaf: no, you unwrap it to see that it's a random bit box, then you need to open that box to use the random bit 
18:55:04 <zzo38> (It still appears to work fine even without a microphone; but it uses the microphone if it is available.) 
18:55:05 <olsner> it could be some kind of single-use electronic device too 
18:58:07 <zzo38> Deewiant: Are you sure they wouldn't add microphone and that stuff to the random numbers too, if such things would be available? 
18:58:11 <olsner> if you don't disclose whether it's previously used or not, does that give you another bit of random? 
18:59:48 -!- augur has joined. 
19:01:15 <olsner> shachaf: also, what happens if you roll a dice too often in this world of yours? 
19:01:39 <olsner> A is an integer number of dice 
19:02:15 <zzo38> If you need to use a dice for encryption, maybe you should use a casino dice and make sure to rull against the wall 
19:02:28 <olsner> dice: the gift that keeps on giving random numbers 
19:03:23 <kmc> maybe in shachaf's world the physics of dice rolling is just very easily predictable 
19:03:50 <kmc> even in our world you can learn to throw a die to a particular side 
19:03:58 <olsner> yeah, or maybe dice roll slower and slower as their random supply runs out 
19:04:15 <zzo38> I read about a "quantum dice" which always rolls doubles when rolled together, but act like regular dice when thrown individually. It probably doesn't exist; they just wanted to describe it. 
19:04:36 <shachaf> Maybe everyone knows the entire state of the world at any point. 
19:04:54 <shachaf> Except for the inside of their brain, which starts out deterministic but gets seeded with random data. 
19:05:33 <olsner> brains are the only sources of random data? 
19:05:59 <Arc_Koen> wouuuw I wrote exactly one fourth of the truth-machine implementations on the truth-machine page 
19:06:15 <olsner> (this is a placeholder for some kind of pun about zombies) 
19:09:11 <fizzie> Remeber to go back and replace it with the actual pun some day. 
19:09:12 <zzo38> How can brains be the only sources of random data, it is like physical like anything else? It must follow the same laws, although there is possibliity to cause different results just as mathematical functions can give different outputs by the different inputs. 
19:09:15 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 
19:09:37 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 
19:09:58 <olsner> fizzie: feel free to remind me, but I'm good at neither puns nor zombies 
19:10:53 <olsner> maybe oerjan or funpuns can fill it in later 
19:11:29 <Arc_Koen> olsner: I seem to recall joke #32 was about zombies 
19:11:32 <FreeFull> Brains don't really depend on quantum effects for operation any more than a rock does 
19:11:33 <Sgeo> Arc_Koen, I wonder if I should try implementing in in $current_preferred_language 
19:12:25 <Sgeo> Although most of these implementations are in esolangs 
19:12:32 <zzo38> FreeFull: Well, yes, but rocks are simpler so the result is generally the same as anything. However, everything will depend on quantum effect, I think. 
19:12:54 <FreeFull> zzo38: That is part of my point 
19:13:05 <zzo38> It must, since it is the same law of physics! 
19:16:01 <Arc_Koen> Sgeo: well, maybe we could add one in C in the intro 
19:16:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 
19:16:19 <Arc_Koen> that could be clearer that the current pseudo-code 
19:16:57 -!- ssue has joined. 
19:17:41 <zzo38> Just write it in whatever you want; whatever is the clearest can be linked to from the intro, I suppose. 
19:20:20 <FreeFull> I'm thinking C is just a bit old, therefore doesn't have some of the convieniences =P 
19:26:04 <zzo38> I think also that the I/O of FurryScript is not good enough to make truth-machine since it can only make input at beginning and output at the end. Possibly with lazy evaluation it could be done, but the current implementation does not use lazy evaluation. 
19:26:34 <Arc_Koen> it's the same problem with Kipple and a couple other languages 
19:27:22 <Arc_Koen> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Truth-machine#Squishy2K 
19:29:24 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 
19:29:49 -!- constant has quit (Quit: I found 1 in /dev/zero). 
19:32:16 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 
19:34:32 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 
19:41:24 -!- not5nick has changed nick to boily. 
19:57:37 -!- jiella has joined. 
20:02:33 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]). 
20:29:18 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 
20:29:32 <Gregor> OMG, I just realized that it is my destiny to create a web technology called AppleJAX. 
20:49:07 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Poniest. 
20:49:16 <Poniest> Did somebody say “HELL YES PONIES”?! Yeah, I did! 
20:50:48 <Arc_Koen> "Several languages exist which are based on rewriting strings, the most well-known being Thue." 
20:50:49 <nortti> anyone who understands what this does gets a virtual cookie: main(){char a[256],*b,*c[256],**d;int p;while(1){write(1,"$ ",2);for(b=a;*(b-1)!='\n';b++){read(0,b,1);}*b=0;d=c;*d++=a;for(b=a;b<a+256&&*b!=0;b++){if(*b==' '||*b=='\n'){*b=0;*d=b+1;d++;}}*(d-1)=0;if(!(p=fork()))execvp(a,c);else wait(p);}} 
20:50:58 <Arc_Koen> I thought it should be "the best-known being Thue" 
20:51:03 <nortti> bonus point to the first one who finds the buffer overflow 
20:51:23 <Arc_Koen> nortti: am I allowed to compile it? 
20:51:47 <Arc_Koen> or at least copy it into a text file and add proper indentation 
20:52:03 <FreeFull> nortti: Is it cheating if I copy-paste it into a text editor and make it more readable? =P 
20:52:24 <boily> there seems to be a suspicious fork() and execvp() in there. 
20:52:25 <nortti> don't forget that there is 1 space in there 
20:53:07 <Arc_Koen> what the heck of a way to code is that 
20:53:36 <Poniest> Uhhh, that's pretty conventional. 
20:54:10 <Arc_Koen> uh, I don't know fork() or execvp 
20:54:11 <Poniest> void strcpy(char*a,char*b){while(*b)*a++=*b++;*a=0;} 
20:55:03 <nortti> Arc_Koen: those are unix syscalls like read and write you should notice in there 
20:56:00 <Arc_Koen> hum, right, I don't know read and write either 
20:56:28 <nortti> consult your nearest man page 
20:56:36 <Arc_Koen> well hum there is a builtin read function in the shell OF COURSE so it won't show me the C one 
20:56:48 <Arc_Koen> man man will tell me how to do that maybe 
20:57:27 <nortti> in this case man 2 read 
20:58:08 <Arc_Koen> wait, it tells me you have to #include a bunch of stuff 
20:58:14 <Arc_Koen> therefore your program should not work 
20:58:36 <Arc_Koen> because there are no #includes in your program 
20:58:48 <nortti> I didn't need includes with unix v6 and I don't need then mow 
20:59:07 <nortti> and it only needs size_t 
20:59:45 <nortti> and as you see only a literal is used there 
21:00:41 <nortti> so following bad coding practices I left the #include out bcause I wanted to fit it in one line 
21:03:58 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 
21:06:36 <kmc> in C if a function is not declared it is assumed to exist with an int return type and an arbitrary number of int arguments 
21:06:39 <kmc> or something? 
21:06:55 <kmc> it's more complicated than what I just said, I'm sure 
21:07:46 <kmc> anyway nortti i'm guessing it's a shell 
21:07:52 <kmc> i think you showed us before 
21:08:10 <Poniest> There are specific rules regarding the default types of the parameters given the arguments, with the implication that those same types have to be compatible if you later give it a proper prototype. 
21:08:13 <kmc> also the write(',"$ ",2); and fork and execvp are good clues 
21:09:04 <kmc> but your shell does not do job control! 
21:09:23 * nortti gives kmc a virtual cookie 
21:09:36 <nortti> now find the buffer overflow 
21:09:51 <kmc> well there are only so many places it could be :) 
21:11:59 <FreeFull> You never allocate a space for c 
21:12:35 <nortti> >char a[256],*b,*c[256],**d 
21:13:22 <FreeFull> Unless I'm reading it wrong and it's a 256 array of char pointers 
21:13:26 <kmc> no it's the latter 
21:13:37 <kmc> cdecl> explain char *c[256] 
21:13:37 <kmc> declare c as array 256 of pointer to char 
21:14:08 <FreeFull> Maybe I should get cdecl then =P 
21:14:14 <nortti> FreeFull: do you understand what pointers are put in c? 
21:14:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 
21:14:38 <kmc> "*d=b+1;d++;" could be replaced with "*d++=b+1;" for extra obfuscation 
21:14:53 <nortti> hmm. missed that for some reason 
21:15:01 <kmc> you did it somewhere else aleady 
21:15:04 * kmc can't type 
21:15:06 <nortti> but the aim is not to obfuscate 
21:15:21 <kmc> there is a difference between compact code and obfuscated code 
21:15:45 <FreeFull> You could get rid of d and replace all occurences of it with c and it'd still work, right? 
21:15:55 -!- carado has joined. 
21:16:03 <Poniest> char*a,b[9999];main(){gets(a=b);while(*a){a+=(b[*a]-=b[a[1]])?3:a[2];}puts(b+1);} 
21:17:05 <FreeFull> nortti: Pointers to chars in a, right? 
21:17:16 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 
21:17:24 <kmc> also there is no way to exit the shell :D 
21:17:48 * nortti gives some extra points to kmc 
21:18:02 <nortti> forgot to include that in the puzzle 
21:18:09 <kmc> of course that would be as easy as if(!read(0,b,1))return; 
21:18:11 <olsner> is there a unix shell that emulates command.com? (or cmd.exe?) 
21:18:39 <kmc> yeah because it doesn't do job control ;P 
21:18:54 <nortti> but any other way than abusing it not handling signals 
21:21:58 <nortti> if no one finds the buffer overflow in 10 minutes I'm going to reveal it 
21:23:21 <kmc> it's just that long command lines will overflow 'a', right? 
21:30:43 * nortti gives kmc bonus points 
21:34:31 <olsner> oh, that was a boring one ... gets is an automatic buffer overflow 
21:42:49 <kmc> what does yours do Poniest  
21:43:13 <Poniest> Don't feel like guessing, eh? X-D 
21:43:23 <kmc> well i ran it but it wasn't particularly enlightnening 
21:43:33 <Poniest> You'd need very carefully-constructed input to use it. 
21:43:45 <Poniest> It's an interpreter for a TC subleq-like language. 
21:44:00 <Poniest> Although it is not itself TC since the memory is fixed at 9999 bytes. 
21:45:42 -!- jiella has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 
21:45:54 <kmc> what a coincidence, my computer is also not turing complete :) 
21:47:08 <kmc> you can build a turing machine by making an EC2 instance which upgrades its own storage when necessary, and also has an endowment in government bonds or something, which will eventually cover the costs of additional computation 
21:48:03 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 
21:48:22 <kmc> of course when amazon goes out of business you are still screwed :( 
21:49:37 <olsner> not if the machine moves to another internet fluffy weather thingy 
21:49:37 <Poniest> I like how you blindly ran unreadable C code, btw. 
21:50:07 <olsner> it's ok, he probably ran it as root so it couldn't touch his user data 
21:51:17 <kmc> it's not unreadable 
21:51:30 <kmc> i couldn't tell exactly what it does but i was fairly confident that it wouldn't do anything too nasty 
21:51:49 <kmc> the only system-ish calls are gets and puts 
21:51:59 <kmc> and it's too simple to be constructing a nasty payload and buffer overflowing it, or anything like that 
21:52:04 <kmc> though really 
21:52:11 <kmc> i am interested in how well you can hide these things 
21:52:30 <kmc> i want to run a contest kind of like http://underhanded.xcott.com/ 
21:52:33 <kmc> but more open-ended 
21:55:45 <olsner> kind of like ioccc but for malicious programs? 
21:56:20 <kmc> kind of, yeah 
21:56:36 * Sgeo thinks that Lisps might be good for that because as far as I understand, indentation is crucial for readability, so false indentation might be able to trick readers, I think 
21:56:44 <kmc> for the most part programs in ioccc are obviously very hard to understand 
21:57:02 <kmc> i'm interested in programs which look like very straightforward implementations of one thing, but actually do some other malicious thing 
21:57:08 <olsner> oh, except that instead of inscrutable they should look harmless 
21:57:10 <kmc> there are a few IOCCC winners like that, though 
21:57:24 <kmc> also, it's easy to make a progra 
21:57:25 <olsner> I recall some Java-like thing 
21:57:34 <kmc> also, it's easy to make a program with a deliberate subtle security hole 
21:57:43 <kmc> but that's not so interesting either 
21:58:01 <kmc> so it's hard to delineate exactly what i'm looking for 
21:58:21 <olsner> leave it to the judges? :) 
21:59:13 <kmc> i started writing up guidelines 
21:59:26 <kmc> 'Your program should conceal the malicious behavior from the user for as long as possible.  It's especially impressive if you can make it look like an honest mistake even after it's been uncovered.' 
22:00:00 <Sgeo> kmc, that underhanded thing, were the submissions ever shown/judged? 
22:00:04 <Sgeo> For the airline one 
22:00:14 <kmc> i think not for that iteration of the contest 
22:00:19 <kmc> some previous years are on there though 
22:01:19 <kmc> i'm particularly interested in what psychological tricks you can play to make someone shrug and say "eh, this code is probably ok" 
22:01:19 <olsner> I think the underhanded contest was a bit boring because you had to solve one specific problem and make a specific kind of malicious behavior 
22:01:30 -!- carado has joined. 
22:05:39 <olsner> actually, I think this kind of program goes well in the ioccc 
22:06:32 <olsner> although they might be surprised to get submissions that don't look obfuscated at all 
22:07:06 <olsner> also might be pissed if they try your program and it does something evil 
22:08:10 <Poniest> It would be just fine to /tell/ them it does something evil. 
22:08:26 <Poniest> In a way it's not similar to that submission that #defined a bunch of stuff to make Java-looking code run. 
22:08:40 <Poniest> And in a way, it's not similar ^^ 
22:14:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 
22:15:06 <kmc> my contest would definitely not be limited to C, though 
22:15:18 <kmc> i think a lot of different languages have a lot of different interesting ways to hide shit 
22:15:56 <kmc> i want to see a LaTeX document class that steals your SSH private key 
22:16:16 <kmc> to recover the key, the attacker has to print out the document and soak it in lemon juice 
22:16:44 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 
22:18:23 <Sgeo> "Note that some really nasty security holes result from similar acts of syntactic cleverness. Probably the biggest example is the format specifier bug, which exists because a zillion programmers think that writing printf( string ) instead of printf( %s, string ) is kinda neat." 
22:20:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 
22:26:05 <Arc_Koen> oh I had never thought of writing printf(string) 
22:33:52 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 
22:34:26 <kmc> first thing in gitit user's guide: "Gitit is a wiki program written in Haskell. It uses Happstack for the web server" 
22:34:37 <kmc> cause if there's anything users care most about, it's what language and web framework was used to implement the site 
22:34:55 <kmc> gitit is pretty cool though 
22:38:45 <kmc> i like that i can download any page on my wiki as a LaTeX document, man page, or S5 slideshow 
22:39:04 <kmc> for that "not three shits were given" presentation look 
22:44:49 -!- augur has joined. 
22:57:51 <olsner> it better not give you one of those LaTeX documents that steals your SSH private key 
22:58:50 -!- Poniest has changed nick to Gregor. 
22:58:58 <Gregor> Even the S5 presentation does. 
22:59:18 * ion saved an idea for a rhythm in glorious General MIDI. http://heh.fi/tmp/test-20121013.midi 
22:59:40 <olsner> I suppose the man page does too 
23:01:13 <elliott> ion: how do i play general midi on linux again 
23:01:45 <ion> elliott: xdg-open http://heh.fi/tmp/test-20121013.midi 
23:01:56 <olsner> hah, as if that would work 
23:01:58 <Gregor> My estimation of that working: 0% 
23:02:01 <elliott> what player do i need to install for midis 
23:02:03 <ion> Worksforme™ 
23:02:11 <ion> elliott: Totem plays it on my system. 
23:02:21 <ion> What’s your default media player? 
23:02:25 <Gregor> ion: … do you have a hardware MIDI synth? 
23:02:47 <Gregor> Then your distro must configure timidity or fluidsynth as an alsa server by default, I suppose. 
23:03:04 <elliott> all these modern conveniences 
23:03:20 <olsner> oh, xdg-open opened the link in my browser, upon which my browser is offering to open the file using xdg-open 
23:03:36 <Gregor> The answer is not “it's magic”, ion, there exists a sequencer somewhere X_X 
23:04:07 <pikhq> I blit into the framebuffer just right and tune an AM radio to my monitor. 
23:04:08 <olsner> chockingly, I don't have a midi player installed 
23:04:12 <ion> elliott: gst-launch-0.10 filesrc location=test-20121013.midi ! decodebin ! alsasink 
23:04:28 <elliott> apparently i actually have gstreamer 
23:04:29 <Gregor> <Gregor> Then your distro must configure timidity or fluidsynth as an alsa server by default, I suppose. 
23:04:31 <elliott> but i doubt that will work 
23:04:35 <elliott> i have no midi synthesiser installed 
23:05:19 <ion> This seems to be the thing it uses. /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/gstreamer-0.10/libgstwildmidi.so 
23:05:41 <olsner> oh wow, xdg-open's list of candidates lists 11 copies of Internet Explorer 
23:05:57 <ion> It came from gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad 
23:06:33 <Gregor> wildmidi, never heard of it. Uses GUS patches though, so it's shit. 
23:06:43 <Gregor> elliott: http://codu.org/webmidi/ 
23:06:57 <elliott> webmidi doesn't accept a url, worthless 
23:07:12 <olsner> derp, and I forgot to uncheck the "always use this program" thingy, so now all midi files open with internet explorer 
23:08:14 <ion> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/22676115734515/22676115734515.ogg 
23:08:19 <olsner> (I don't seem to have IE installed) 
23:09:28 <elliott> i like how tinny this sounds 
23:10:46 <elliott> anyone remember the algorhythm thing 
23:10:55 <elliott> imo ion should generate a melody for thar rhythm with it 
23:11:18 <ion> I’ll generate a melody using the algorithms in my wetware. :-P 
23:11:54 <elliott> nothing surpassed the algorhythms 
23:12:06 <olsner> elliott: GUS is a well-renouned sound card from the age before such things were standard equipment built into every PC 
23:12:12 <elliott> i forget what Gregor's really good one was called 
23:12:17 <olsner> it had buffers and samples and fancy stuff 
23:12:34 <ion> http://heh.fi/tmp/test-20121013.pdf 
23:12:52 <elliott> http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/mp/Onerously%20Uptight%20Toccata this one 
23:12:53 <Gregor> elliott: Onerously Uptight Toccata. 
23:12:57 <elliott> Gregor: please add a link that automatically webmidis it 
23:13:13 <Gregor> elliott: http://codu.org/music/auto/Onerously%20Uptight%20Toccata.ogg 
23:13:19 <Gregor> But I'll bear that in mind for this weekend and/or never. 
23:16:12 <elliott> i can't find the ones i made RIP 
23:16:19 <elliott> well i remember http://codu.org/masterpiecemachine/mp/Onerous%20Cake-Eating%20Festival%20Disallowment%20Barricade 
23:16:23 <elliott> but i forget what it sounds like because there's no ogg link 
23:17:11 <Gregor> First world too-lazy-to-just-download-it-then-upload-it-to-webmidi problems. 
23:17:33 <elliott> Gregor: http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/228332553116545/228332553116545.ogg doesn't work 
23:17:40 <elliott> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/228332553116545/ 
23:17:49 <Gregor> Well, I can't figure out why, as I'm at work, so nya ^^ 
23:17:54 <elliott> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/228332553116545/log.txt 
23:18:13 <Gregor> That's an unhelpful log ^^´ 
23:19:24 <elliott> now i'm trying with chorium 
23:19:26 <elliott> but it's stuck as "queued" 
23:19:31 <elliott> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/2288519420303/ 
23:20:08 <Gregor> The queue isn't based on webmidi submissions, it's based on system load. 
23:20:21 <Gregor> Webmidi is always prioritized lower than… just about everything else :) 
23:20:36 <elliott> ok now it finished and spat out a 0 second file 
23:21:16 <elliott> i think this "Roe v_ Wade As An Analogy For Temperature" one is mine 
23:21:54 <elliott> Gregor: btw fluidsynth: warning: Failed to pin the sample data to RAM; swapping is possible. 
23:22:07 <Gregor> It's irrelevant for rendering to a file. 
23:22:23 <elliott> http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/22981154128959/22981154128959.ogg this is amazing 
23:22:24 <Gregor> And infrequently an issue even for live playback. 
23:23:09 <elliott> i think this may be the best thing i have ever made 
23:23:54 <Gregor> And you didn't even make it. 
23:28:06 <Gregor> A couple weeks ago I drove by a place called “Beverages and More”. I thought to myself, “what a bizarre niche”, and drove on. 
23:28:19 <Gregor> Today I realized, of COURSE a place called “Beverages and More” would have Moxie. 
23:28:28 <Gregor> In retrospect, I am a fool :'( 
23:28:44 <Gregor> But in prospect, I will soon have Moxie! 
23:29:06 <Arc_Koen> elliott: your .ogg file sounds like it runs four times too fast 
23:29:38 <elliott> Arc_Koen: maybe you run four times too slow 
23:29:42 <elliott> how about this http://codu.org/webmidi/gen/23051228304267/23051228304267.ogg 
23:30:48 <elliott> gonna go with you being too slow on this one 
23:30:51 <Arc_Koen> there might be something wrong with my player 
23:31:38 <elliott> does http://codu.org/music/auto/Onerously%20Uptight%20Toccata.ogg sound too fast 
23:31:42 <elliott> (it's meant to be 160 bpm) 
23:32:34 <Arc_Koen> it's not just the sound - my player actually displays the time and every second it's incremented by 4 or 5 
23:51:44 <shachaf> kmc: Any talk of extracting the interesting part of mosh into a library? 
23:58:22 <kmc> people talk of it, yes 
23:58:29 <kmc> by "the interesting part" do you mean the state sync protocol? 
23:59:28 <kmc> well, it is already sort of a library 
23:59:41 <kmc> it lives in its own directory in the mosh source tree 
23:59:47 <kmc> and has a reasonably clean if completely undocumented interface