←2012-10-21 2012-10-22 2012-10-23→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:04:45 <quintopia> zzo38's brain is the best one
00:05:16 <quintopia> (there should be an esolang called zzo38's brain)
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00:26:38 <Sgeo> Oh, Phantom_Hoover: I recommend deciding nowish if you're going to check update tonight or tomorrow
00:26:45 <Sgeo> From what I've heard, it's really long
00:27:51 <Phantom_Hoover> it's half one and i have a nine o'clock lecture tomorrow
00:27:53 <Phantom_Hoover> guess
00:28:19 <kmc> there is a cellular automaton called Brian's Brain
00:28:50 <kmc> it has lots of spaceships
00:29:02 <olsner> I guess Brian is a scifi fan
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00:33:53 <shachaf> Maybe olsner is a pokémon who evolves into oerjan.
00:34:01 <shachaf> Is that how it works?
00:34:37 <olsner> I don't think I'm a pokemon
00:34:37 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, it's kind of boring though
00:34:41 <olsner> oerjan might be
00:34:45 <Phantom_Hoover> it has lots of spaceships the same way seeds does
00:34:51 <shachaf> if evolution is true why are there still olsners
00:34:56 <olsner> @ask oerjan Are you a pokemon?
00:34:56 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:35:30 <Phantom_Hoover> most patterns explode, and most of the things that don't explode are spaceships
00:36:26 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: is that a theorem?
00:36:38 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
00:36:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Phantom_Hoover's theorem
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00:36:52 <Phantom_Hoover> i also have a theorem about tea
00:36:55 <coppro> your theorem sucks
00:37:03 <AnnApolis> hello folks
00:37:35 <AnnApolis> despite the fact i do CS i don't know anyone who knows haskell so i'm hoping you guys can help me out:
00:38:03 <AnnApolis> if i write a song called "my love has side-effects" and release it under the name "mona d. and the funk-tors", that totally works, right?
00:38:43 <AnnApolis> "ooh, babe, my love has side-effects/if you want something purely functional i'll go with no regrets" etc
00:39:27 <monqy> hi
00:40:50 <Jafet> @quote 007
00:40:50 <lambdabot> lambdabot says: <chessguy> sorry, this is the bird book: http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Functional-Programming-2nd-Bird/dp/0134843460/sr=8-6/qid=1159309594/ref=pd_bbs_6/104-1423720-3100708?ie=
00:40:51 <lambdabot> UTF8&s=books <lambdabot> http://tinyurl.com/root7
00:41:02 <Jafet> @quote monochrom 007
00:41:02 <lambdabot> monochrom says: 007 titles for haskellers. fromForeignPtr withCString. You Only lift Twice. Bottoms Are Forever. The Monad with the Pure Function. For Your Types Only. A view to A seq. Licence
00:41:02 <lambdabot> to killThread. iterate Never Dies. unsafePerformIO Is Not Enough.
00:41:30 <Phantom_Hoover> <coppro> your theorem sucks
00:41:37 <Phantom_Hoover> no, my tea theorem is perfect
00:41:56 <coppro> your other one
00:41:57 <Jafet> Its proof seems pretty strained.
00:42:12 <Phantom_Hoover> pfft, proofs are boring
00:42:21 <AnnApolis> it involves a lot of syntactic sugar?
00:50:05 <zzo38> I have question of Curry-Howard, is, loops which might or might not halt?
00:50:41 <coppro> huhwhat?
00:50:48 <coppro> halting has nothing to do with curry-howard
00:51:26 <zzo38> I know loops are normally not allowed to make the proof but I don't know if in some cases there is no other choice?
00:51:46 <coppro> example
00:52:18 <zzo38> Are you asking for an example? I don't know, which is why I asked.
00:53:56 <zzo38> I wonder if there is anything related to Curry-Howard which involves the halting problem somehow?
00:54:06 <coppro> not that I know of
00:54:17 <coppro> Curry-Howard is just an equivalence
00:55:07 <zzo38> Yes I know of that
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01:10:03 <Phantom_Hoover> halting does map to a property of logics through curry-howard though
01:10:23 <Phantom_Hoover> dunno what the formal statement of that is though
01:10:26 <zzo38> What kind of property?
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01:15:29 * kmc nominates AnnApolis for Employee of the Month
01:37:50 <Sgeo> monqy, UPDATE
01:38:01 -!- kmc has set topic: A button to touch, a dial to turn, a key to hold | http://phantom-hoover.tumblr.com/ | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
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02:41:49 <coppro> I am not sure which is more disturbing
02:42:13 <coppro> What Damara's saying, or that Google Translate can accurately translate the vulgarity
02:48:39 <zzo38> I was on #haskell channel I was asking why guards cannot be used in a do-notation, such as do { y@(PartPin z _) | z == x <- p; [y]; } do you think guards should be allowed?
02:49:10 <shachaf> What would it mean?
02:49:18 <hagb4rd|afk> the ones looking terrbible on mondays must have had an awesome weekend
02:49:19 <shachaf> "fail" if the guard condition is false?
02:49:24 -!- hagb4rd|afk has changed nick to hagb4rd.
02:49:29 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes.
02:50:00 <hagb4rd> good morning esofriends
02:50:00 <lambdabot> hagb4rd: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
02:50:01 <shachaf> zzo38: There's already the function "guard".
02:50:07 <hagb4rd> kool
02:51:06 <zzo38> I know there is already the function "guard" for MonadPlus (although it should be for Alternative), but it would still seem to me that it should be allowed guard on a pattern in a do-notation like you can fail with other not matching patterns the same way.
02:53:24 <shachaf> zzo38: It should be for MonadZero, or the applicative equivalent.
02:53:57 <hagb4rd> `log pastie
02:54:04 <zzo38> Well, whatever it should be for, doesn't matter here.
02:54:27 <HackEgo> 2009-05-23.txt:00:06:16: <AnMaster> <ehird> pikhq: Slereah_: A step-by-step demonstration that the anti-kludge Plain English is basically a rearrangement of a small subset of C: http://pastie.org/486940.txt?key=y7p297kilxy4kj0kelcig
02:55:13 <hagb4rd> `log .*hagb4rd.*pastie.*
02:55:37 <HackEgo> 2012-10-22.txt:02:55:13: <hagb4rd> `log .*hagb4rd.*pastie.*
02:55:44 <hagb4rd> meh
02:56:13 <hagb4rd> `log .*hagb4rd.geometry.*pastie.*
02:56:29 <HackEgo> 2012-10-22.txt:02:56:13: <hagb4rd> `log .*hagb4rd.geometry.*pastie.*
02:58:02 <zzo38> You should change it to omit display of lines starting with ` unless you explicitlyr request it
02:58:35 <zzo38> Also should allow to specify date/time range
03:04:15 <pikhq> God, Plain English.
03:04:53 <coppro> Sgeo: have you read Damara's translated text yet?
03:05:16 <Sgeo> Through Google Translate, yes
03:05:22 <Sgeo> Is there a better translation?
03:05:50 <coppro> not that I'm aware
03:05:53 <pikhq> Damara's text?
03:05:55 <coppro> I'm sure someone will post one on the forums soon
03:05:58 <coppro> pikhq: homestuck
03:06:03 <pikhq> Ah.
03:06:07 <pikhq> I need to read that sometime.
03:06:09 <coppro> pikhq: recent updated included a character speaking in Japanese
03:06:24 <coppro> I didn't know Google could translate such vulgarity correctly
03:06:33 <coppro> (mostly, anyway)
03:06:37 <pikhq> I could try my hand at it without context, though. :P
03:06:50 <coppro> http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scraps2/damaramegido.html
03:06:56 <Sgeo> Spoilers
03:07:05 <coppro> Sgeo: duh
03:11:29 <coppro> pikhq: enjoying yourself yet?
03:17:36 <Sgeo> coppro, you're aware you can reach Aranea's booth as Damara?
03:18:52 <coppro> Sgeo: No. Bug?
03:19:03 <Sgeo> coppro, nope. Deliberate.
03:19:13 <Sgeo> Easter egg ish
03:19:15 <coppro> oh of course
03:19:21 * coppro loads up game again
03:19:48 <coppro> I knew I missed something earlier
03:20:20 <Sgeo> Also, Karkat has a room, I missed that earlier
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03:20:36 <Sgeo> Once I'm done with late game Damara, I'll go check it out as I actually forgot her name
03:20:41 <Sgeo> Meenah
03:21:56 <coppro> haha
03:28:21 <Sgeo> Oh, you should absolutely visit Karkat's room as Damara
03:29:17 <coppro> heh
03:29:21 <coppro> amusing
03:29:31 <coppro> (going through the conversation with the booth now)
03:32:21 <Sgeo> Oh crud there's even more I didn't do
03:32:47 <Sgeo> Supposed to talk to Karkat as Dave and Rose apparently
03:32:50 <Sgeo> This is too much
03:33:35 <hagb4rd> *laugh* where did you say have you found this dialogue? (damara->menah)
03:34:06 <coppro> hagb4ard: homestuck
03:34:18 <hagb4rd> the google jap translation works even better than for example english-german
03:34:18 <coppro> Sgeo: I like his description of cronus
03:34:28 <hagb4rd> wow
03:35:18 <hagb4rd> really nice.. i should learn japanese and reduce
03:36:10 <hagb4rd> my output here to this dirty oxford by using the translater
03:36:15 <hagb4rd> *noted
03:36:24 <coppro> hagb4rd: that's the first foreign language to appear in any quantity
03:36:32 <coppro> *any noticeable quantity
03:36:40 <hagb4rd> quantity?
03:36:47 <hagb4rd> not quaality?
03:36:58 <coppro> yes, quantity
03:37:01 <coppro> it's in english
03:37:06 <coppro> http://mspaintadventures.com/
03:37:35 <hagb4rd> okay. thanks so far.. need to read through this first *g
03:37:44 <Sgeo> The Japanese text in question was made through Google Translate
03:37:52 <hagb4rd> however
03:38:14 <hagb4rd> spare my illusions o dear sgeo
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03:51:23 <zzo38> Do you like feat/spell I make on Dungeons&Dragons game?
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04:10:58 <Sgeo> With the IO monad, you assemble an action that will later get executed. With Lisp macros, you assemble code that will later get executed.
04:11:09 <Sgeo> Just a thought
04:11:38 <zzo38> OK, but I don't know a lot about Lisp macros, but I think they are different.
04:11:41 <Sgeo> Also, there's a thing called expansion-passing style
04:11:45 <shachaf> what if you wrote lisp code *TO ASSEMBLE THE IO MONAD* dude
04:12:02 <shachaf> like, multiple levels of assembly
04:12:08 <shachaf> so close to the metal man
04:12:40 <Sgeo> That reminds me. Someone should make an esolang where the only way to .. do things is to monkeypatch
04:13:00 <zzo38> Write them on list of ideas
04:15:40 * Sgeo gives up trying to log in
04:18:18 <Jafet> Exception-passing style
04:19:38 <Sgeo> Gagnam-passing style
04:20:04 <Sgeo> *Gangnam-passing styl
04:20:05 <Sgeo> e
04:20:49 <kmc> Sgeo++
04:21:05 <Sgeo> :D
04:23:43 <kmc> http://opalang.org/gangnam.style.html
04:25:25 <Jafet> I hope that catches on.
04:26:26 <coppro> Sgeo: doesn't that apply to any language whose memory is its own code
04:27:07 <Sgeo> coppro, hmm. Guess I wasn't thinking of it in those terms
04:27:26 <coppro> e.g. Malbolge
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05:32:35 <Sgeo> I should get around to writing blog posts
05:33:02 <Sgeo> ...why do I have 103 pageviews when I only actually posted one thing and it was nonsense?
05:34:01 <coppro> what blog is this?
05:34:04 <coppro> can I be view 104
05:34:10 <Sgeo> http://sgeoster.blogspot.com/
05:34:29 * coppro reblogs
05:34:30 <coppro> or whatever
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06:02:35 <ais523> Sgeo: how many are search engine crawlers?
06:02:50 <Sgeo> No idea
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07:15:47 <Sgeo> I found myself googling something and vaguely agreeing with a post I saw, then saw it was by someone I'm not especially fond of
07:15:56 <Sgeo> Although maybe I'm a bit too angry at the person
07:17:49 <Sgeo> I should stop hating people I perceive as incompetant.
07:18:22 <shachaf> I bet it was elliott.
07:18:44 <Sgeo> I don't perceive elliott as incompetant.
07:19:00 <Sgeo> And I think I'm spelling that word wrong. I think the last vowel is either a or e but not sure which.
07:19:08 <shachaf> incompetant at spelling
07:19:36 <Sgeo> Yas.
07:19:44 <shachaf> @ask elliott hi alliott
07:19:45 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:20:03 <Sgeo> shechef
07:20:30 <shachaf> @esk Sgeo hi Sgao
07:20:30 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:20:52 <Sgeo> @tall shachaf hi shechef
07:20:53 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:21:34 <shachaf> @clear-masseges
07:21:35 <lambdabot> Messages cleared.
07:21:46 <shachaf> @claer-message?
07:21:46 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
07:21:47 <shachaf> @claer-messages?
07:21:47 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
07:21:50 <shachaf> @claer-messages
07:21:50 <lambdabot> Messages cleared.
07:22:00 <shachaf> monqy: remember when you said hi
07:22:07 <monqy> no
07:22:10 <fizzie> @XXssages?
07:22:10 <lambdabot> Sorry, no messages today.
07:22:17 <shachaf> all your friends are doing it monqy
07:22:23 <shachaf> like elliott
07:22:40 <shachaf> come on say hi once for old times sake :'(
07:22:57 <monqy> my quit message is "hello" is that good enough
07:23:02 <shachaf> no
07:23:05 <shachaf> it has to be:
07:23:08 <shachaf> hi
07:23:18 <shachaf> and not a quit message but a privmsg message
07:23:48 <fizzie> A public privmsg message.
07:24:05 <shachaf> public static privmsg message(hi monqy);
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08:05:00 <shachaf> HION
08:05:06 <shachaf> FEELING LOUD TODAY?
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08:52:15 <ION> HI
08:52:18 <ION> IT’S CAPS LOCK DAY.
08:52:21 <shachaf> OH NO
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08:54:31 <ION> HTTP://EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG/wiki/Caps_Lock_day
08:54:42 <ION> WHOOPS
08:54:51 <ION> HTTP://EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG/wiki/Caps_lock_day
08:56:33 <ION> NO U
08:56:59 <SHACHAF> OH U
08:57:50 <fizzie> HTTP://EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG/wiki/Special:Search/CAPS_LOCK_DAY goes to the same place and has a bit more lock of caps.
08:58:26 <SHACHAF> fizzie: I KNOW, THAT'S HOW I FOUND Caps_lock_day
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09:00:56 <ION> Some flags have not been recognized: -XOVERLOADEDSTRINGS
09:01:15 <SHACHAF> {-# RULES ION #-}
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11:06:40 <fizzie> Incidentally, a funny story: Netflix landed in Finland last week, and already got caught getting their Finnish subtitles from "DivX Finland", a fansubbing kind of site, due to not remembering to remove their at-the-start-of-the-subtitles ad.
11:07:52 <fizzie> They're "investigating" how that happened to happen.
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12:06:05 <Jafet> Due to not remembering to remove the annoyingly conspicuous self-plug from fansub groups
12:07:39 <Jafet> I learned the (aptly named) ASS format to edit out some of those
12:13:33 <fizzie> I've only ever edited SRT files, which don't really have that much to learn.
12:18:45 <fizzie> Though I did have to perl -pe 's/^(\d+)(\s*)$/($1-432).$2/e;' or something a file from which I removed the first 432 subtitles.
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12:24:59 <Arc_Koen> helllo
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12:44:43 <fizzie> Hell, lo.
12:47:13 <boily> holy hi.
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13:40:42 <elliott> That `cast` statement corresponds to the IO constructor from our IO newtype:
13:40:42 <elliott> IO :: (State# RealWorld -> (# State# RealWorld, a #)) -> IO a
13:40:42 <elliott> This constructor hides the underlying stateful representation behind the opaque IO newtype.
13:40:46 <elliott> kill
13:40:50 <elliott> kill this blog post :'(
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15:00:05 <ais523_> `welcome sirdancealot
15:00:17 <HackEgo> sirdancealot: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
15:00:32 <sirdancealot> ohai
15:01:00 <ais523_> hi
15:01:22 <ais523_> note: the underscored version of me, when it's not due to connection problems, is typically either bored or busy
15:01:47 <ais523_> and can change between the two suddenly
15:05:10 <sirdancealot> very schroedinger nick
15:05:30 <ais523_> whereas ais523 is a little less under tension
15:05:53 <elliott> hi
15:07:06 <ais523_> elliott: gah, this channel has conditioned me to the stage where, especially from you, I can only interpret "hi" as a threat
15:07:14 <ais523_> made worse because I don't even know what it's threatening
15:07:20 <ais523_> and yet I don't mean it like that when I use it myself
15:07:26 <ais523_> unless it's a non sequitur, in which case I do
15:07:30 <elliott> hi
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15:25:17 <AnotherTest> Hello
15:25:25 <ais523_> AnotherTest: hi
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15:25:52 <AnotherTest> I saw the social network yesterday
15:26:01 <AnotherTest> it was OK. Not amazing though
15:26:12 <kmc> i agree
15:26:16 <kmc> it has some good moments though
15:26:24 <AnotherTest> yeah
15:27:12 <AnotherTest> I found that the "technical descriptions" were actually OK, unlike in many other movies
15:27:47 <AnotherTest> Some things were exaggerated of course
15:28:27 <kmc> well the dialogue / voiceover in the early scene where he's scraping the various dorm websites is mostly lifted directly from zuckerberg's livejournal
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15:30:50 <kmc> i generally don't care when fiction gets irrelevant details of technology wrong
15:31:21 <kmc> neal stephenson named the OS in Cryptonomicon "finux" instead of "linux" to avoid beardos bombarding him with annoying complaints
15:31:47 <AnotherTest> Well, sometimes it's just hilarious
15:31:56 <kmc> it's different if people are using computers to do fundamentally impossible things, like rotate the objects in surveilance footage from a single camera
15:32:23 <AnotherTest> and sometimes makes it impossible to take a movie serious
15:32:49 <kmc> http://www.avclub.com/articles/hackers-may-have-been-of-its-time-but-it-was-also,72249/
15:33:36 <AnotherTest> aw my browser crashed
15:33:37 <AnotherTest> nvm
15:33:40 <AnotherTest> fixed that
15:35:30 <AnotherTest> kmc: Can you believe their was an article in a Belgium newspaper about some kid that claimed to "own" the internet?
15:35:48 <AnotherTest> And the newspaper claims to be of quality
15:36:06 <ais523_> AnotherTest: someone claiming to own the internet can be newsworthy even if you don't believe them
15:36:14 <ais523_> depending on how high-profile a claim it is
15:36:33 <ais523_> put it this way: Al Gore didn't even claim to invent the internet, and yet /that/ made the news
15:37:20 <ais523_> Phantom__Hoover: are you planning to add more to your tumblr, than just bitching about a BF derivative?
15:37:39 <AnotherTest> ais523_: His name had to remain anonymous, nor did the journalist even know who he was
15:37:55 <AnotherTest> and wasn't that atriq's Tumblr?
15:38:04 <AnotherTest> acting as if he was Phantom__Hoover
15:38:13 <ais523_> AnotherTest: atriq's tumblr has phantom-hoover in the URL?
15:38:21 <ais523_> I hadn't actually considered that possibility
15:38:23 <AnotherTest> Um, something like that I think
15:39:58 <ais523_> does Ihybrid actually have any flow control at all?
15:41:27 <barts> i never got to that part of cryptonomicon, it was so boring
15:42:03 <ais523_> barts: is that a non sequitur, or am I just missing how it's relevant?
15:45:19 <ais523_> elliott: idea! create a projectspace page that redlinks to deleted spam pages with interesting titles
15:45:28 <ais523_> then leave the links there if/when the languages are created
15:46:07 <barts> ais523_: i was replying to the last thing said about cryptonomicon.
15:46:18 <elliott> ais523_: enjoy
15:46:18 <ais523_> ah, OK
15:46:20 <ais523_> how long ago was that?
15:46:22 <elliott> ais523_: (doing that)
15:46:26 <barts> half a screen
15:46:33 <ais523_> oh right
15:46:58 <ais523_> I'm tired
15:47:08 <ais523_> if I'm being incoherent or incorrect, ignore me
15:47:33 <ais523_> huh, zzo38 has a BF derivative?
15:47:39 <ais523_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Cufrab
15:49:23 <barts> Koen has several new ones
15:50:19 <ais523_> BF derivs? or languages?
15:50:23 <ais523_> BF derivs mostly suck
15:50:38 <ais523_> Cufrab is what you get if you zzo38ise BF, which is pretty much expected
15:50:54 <barts> the former
15:50:56 <ais523_> (zzo38 derivs don't /exactly/ suck, but they take things in a direction nobody else envisaged or wanted, typically)
15:51:02 <Arc_Koen> hmm
15:51:09 <barts> ais523_: does it use pokemon cards as code
15:51:38 <ais523_> no
15:51:44 <ais523_> that /is/ the sort of thing he would do
15:51:48 <ais523_> but he didn't in that language
15:52:06 <barts> surprising
15:52:16 <ais523_> (note: he'd only use cards from the Pokémon Trading Card Game for the Game Boy, not the printed cards)
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15:55:23 <barts> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&search=pokemon&fulltext=Search
16:04:14 <Arc_Koen> barts: I sincerely apologize for any bf derivative I might have accidentally spawned
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16:55:23 <barts> Arc_Koen: i forgive you.
16:55:34 <Arc_Koen> thank you!
16:55:40 <Arc_Koen> that makes me feel so much better
16:58:37 <barts> don't thank me, thank moloch
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17:43:25 <Arc_Koen> does anyone understands this? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lo%27reran
17:44:18 <Arc_Koen> I'm tempted to mark it as a stub :(
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17:45:49 <zzo38> Despite having only 14 players, my team is still the best winner at 45 wins out of 51 games.
17:45:56 <zzo38> All the other teams have 16 players.
17:47:34 <elliott> Arc_Koen: nice useless spec
17:47:35 <zzo38> Perhaps due to, we have a lot of more energy
17:53:06 <AnotherTest> Arc_Koen: do that, we need to mark more articles as a stub
17:54:18 <zzo38> Yes, I think some articles have not enough description.
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18:02:03 <zzo38> I am trying to make FamicomHDL, which is a set of Haskell functions for making a DotFami mapper codes. But maybe the binary format should be changed too, although it seem OK for now.
18:02:34 <zzo38> And then all the iNES mappers should be written in FamicomHDL/DotFami format too.
18:02:55 -!- atriq has joined.
18:05:32 * Sgeo undergoes Reddit deprivation
18:05:33 <lambdabot> Sgeo: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:05:43 <Sgeo> @massegas
18:05:43 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
18:05:50 <Sgeo> @massagas
18:05:50 <lambdabot> shachaf asked 10h 45m 20s ago: hi Sgao
18:05:58 <Sgeo> atriq, did you see updoot?
18:06:04 <atriq> Yes, I did
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18:29:30 <olsner> does inception become better or worse the second time you see it?
18:29:38 <atriq> I dunno
18:29:42 <atriq> I've only seen it one
18:29:43 <atriq> time
18:31:25 <Arc_Koen> olsner: what do you mean "worse"? it's not bad!
18:31:49 <Arc_Koen> though I seem to recall it was better the first time
18:31:53 <Arc_Koen> the screen felt larger
18:32:05 <olsner> worse than not bad is either bad or (less not) bad
18:32:37 <olsner> fsvo of 'not', 'bad' and 'worse'
18:32:46 <Arc_Koen> oh
18:33:12 <Arc_Koen> in french saying "A is worse than B" implies that B was bad already
18:33:31 <atriq> French is a silly language, then
18:33:36 <atriq> Or at least different to English
18:33:41 <atriq> Which is kind of a given
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18:40:23 <Arc_Koen> well, "A is worse than B" means "A is more bad than B"
18:41:17 <Arc_Koen> (note that in french, we do have a words for "worse", "worst", "best", "better", but almost all other adjectives do not have comparative versions and use "more" and "most")
18:41:40 <Arc_Koen> how can "A is more xxx than B" be logically correct if B is not xxx?
18:41:55 <atriq> quite easily
18:42:01 <atriq> > -9 > -1838
18:42:03 <lambdabot> True
18:42:16 <Arc_Koen> uh
18:42:23 <Arc_Koen> > -9
18:42:24 <lambdabot> -9
18:42:37 <atriq> -9 is more big than -1838 even though -1838 isn't very big at all
18:42:49 <Arc_Koen> are you saying "nothing" is more big than -9 ??
18:43:20 <atriq> Hmm
18:43:21 <atriq> No
18:43:24 <elliott> 0 > -9
18:43:26 <elliott> i think you will find
18:43:28 <Arc_Koen> but, see, "-1838 isn't very big"
18:43:37 <Arc_Koen> you didn't say "-1838 isn't big"
18:43:48 <atriq> > -1 / 0
18:43:50 <lambdabot> -Infinity
18:43:59 <atriq> > -9 > (-1 / 0)
18:44:00 <Arc_Koen> > -1 / -0
18:44:00 <lambdabot> True
18:44:01 <lambdabot> Precedence parsing error
18:44:01 <lambdabot> cannot mix `GHC.Real./' [infixl 7] and prefix...
18:44:17 <Arc_Koen> > (-1) / 0
18:44:18 <lambdabot> -Infinity
18:44:24 <Arc_Koen> > (-1) / (-0)
18:44:25 <lambdabot> Infinity
18:44:37 <Arc_Koen> > (-0) = 0
18:44:38 <lambdabot> <no location info>: parse error on input `='
18:44:54 <Arc_Koen> what, haskell doesn't have an equal operator?
18:44:58 <FireFly> > (-0) == 0
18:45:00 <lambdabot> True
18:45:10 <FireFly> Yes it does; it's the same as in e.g. C
18:45:14 <FireFly> :P
18:45:18 <Arc_Koen> thanks
18:45:28 <atriq> Haskell has an everything statement
18:45:33 <atriq> *operator
18:45:39 <Arc_Koen> > (-1) / (-0) == (-1) / 0
18:45:40 <lambdabot> False
18:45:49 <Arc_Koen> WELL THAT'S NOT OK BY ME
18:46:31 <Arc_Koen> that means (-0) is not completely equal to 0
18:46:46 <atriq> Haskell is the only language I can think of where (+=) does roughly what you expect but it's a normal operator in a pretty new library
18:46:51 <Arc_Koen> well either that or /'s arguments are evaluated after /
18:46:54 <atriq> That isn't installed by default
18:47:17 <atriq> Arc_Koen, that's a symptom of the standard Double type
18:47:46 <atriq> It's an IEEE standard
18:59:10 <FireFly> atriq: what's (+=)'s type?
18:59:48 <atriq> (MonadState a m, Num b) => SimpleSetting a b -> b -> m ()
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19:05:34 <fizzie> &win 51
19:05:39 <fizzie> Snarg.
19:05:44 <olsner> &fail 51
19:06:10 <fizzie> I should maybe bind some kind of a two-digit window-swapping keybinding.
19:06:18 <fizzie> They only go up to 19 now.
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19:06:47 <olsner> how do you get the ones above 9?
19:06:57 <fizzie> alt-q to alt-o.
19:07:03 <fizzie> Corresponding to the number mostly-above.
19:07:19 <fizzie> alt-p ought to be 20, but it's "prior"/pageup instead.
19:07:50 <fizzie> (Assuming qwerty here.)
19:08:06 <fizzie> Oh, and alt-0 for 10.
19:08:13 <fizzie> Or esc 0, whatever.
19:08:14 <olsner> ah, that makes sense I guess
19:08:41 <fizzie> Fortunately, #esoteric is in 17, so the important ones are covered.
19:08:58 <fizzie> Unfortunately, I think my wife is in 28.
19:09:06 <fizzie> (But that's just because I've sorted it channels first.)
19:09:15 <olsner> you have SIXTEEN channels more important than us?
19:09:27 <fizzie> No, it's not sorted in order of importance.
19:09:34 <fizzie> Just that all the important ones are <= 19.
19:10:33 <fizzie> Among those 19 are at least four channels on which there's approximately one comment per year; two where I'm the only one on.
19:10:41 <fizzie> (Important stuff!)
19:11:03 -!- atriq has joined.
19:12:35 <fizzie> On #5 the last actual privmsg was in 6th of August, 2011.
19:13:23 <fizzie> (Someone called "thecakeisalie" joined, said "hi", waited two minutes and twenty-two seconds, then left; I said "Bye" about eleven minutes later.)
19:14:16 <fizzie> (The one before that was May 22nd, 2010, somebody saying (paraphrasing) "Fizzie I suppose this channel is dead too?", then left.)
19:15:16 <atriq> FireFly, this expands to Num c => ((c -> c) -> a -> a) -> c -> State a ()
19:15:44 <atriq> (for the plain ol' State monad)
19:18:18 <atriq> So if you have myFst f (a, b) = (f a, b); myFst += 1 turns a state of (n, x) to (n + 1, x)
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19:27:47 <zzo38> Continuation are normally made by Peirce's law, but perhaps it might be made with law of excluded middle, and/or with double negative elimination, maybe in some cases some parts of a program works better in this way?
19:29:18 <atriq> LawOfExcludedMiddle :: (a, a -> Void) -> Void?
19:29:38 <zzo38> Law of excluded middle allows to go back when a result is available
19:30:56 <Sgeo> atriq, a -> Void means not a?
19:30:59 <zzo38> atriq: Well you need continuation
19:31:01 <atriq> Yes
19:31:04 <atriq> And yes?
19:31:12 <zzo38> Since it does not apply in intuitionistic logic
19:32:18 <atriq> brb
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19:34:13 <atriq> Back
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19:35:00 <atriq> zzo38, could you explain how it would work, in practise?
19:36:48 <zzo38> callCC (return . Right . (. Left)) is what I had.
19:37:08 <zzo38> And it does work; I tried it. Its type is ContT r m (Either a (a -> ContT r m b))
19:37:21 <copumpkin> atriq: that isn't excluded middle
19:37:25 <copumpkin> atriq: that's noncontradiction
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19:37:43 <atriq> copumpkin, ah, so it is
19:37:48 <copumpkin> and is provable in intuitionistic logic
19:37:54 <copumpkin> uncurry (flip id)
19:38:02 <atriq> LawOfExcludedMiddle :: Either a (a -> Void)
19:38:05 <copumpkin> yeah
19:38:15 <copumpkin> much harder to implement :)
19:39:22 <zzo38> But I made something similar, you can make the function to go back when the result is available
19:40:45 <atriq> doubleNegativeElimination :: ((a -> Void) -> Void) -> a
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19:41:13 <copumpkin> it's actually kind of fun to implement LEM from Peirce
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19:41:40 <atriq> pierce :: ((x -> y) -> x) -> x
19:41:54 <barts> zzo38: have you heard about this bf clone based on pokecard classic gameboy?
19:41:56 <copumpkin> (forall x y. ((x -> y) -> x) -> x) -> Either a (Not a)
19:42:07 <zzo38> barts: No, I have not heard. What is it?
19:42:10 <barts> zzo38: you have made it in 2015.
19:42:22 <zzo38> Well, then that is why I have not heard of it yet.
19:42:31 <copumpkin> atriq: Peirce!
19:42:31 <copumpkin> :P
19:42:44 <atriq> Aaargh
19:44:03 <elliott> !logs
19:47:16 <atriq> Does EgoBot have logs?
19:47:35 <elliott> barts: hi cheater, why are you ban-evading?
19:50:51 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that Lisps are heavy with syntax sugar
19:51:02 <Sgeo> After all, (a b c) is really (a . (b . (c . ())))
19:51:15 <Sgeo> And that sugar is used pervasively
19:51:44 <Arc_Koen> so, imagine I have a pseudo-random number generator that works as follow: you seed it with Random.seed(<arbitrarily large integer>), and you generate a number with Random.f()
19:52:16 <atriq> Yes
19:52:21 <Arc_Koen> and it is such that the sequence [Random.f(), Random.f(), ...] is always the same if it has been seeded just before the first term of the sequence and the seed is always the same
19:52:22 <atriq> That is how many PRNGs work
19:52:45 <Arc_Koen> now imagine I look into how numbers are generated
19:53:24 <Sgeo> elliott, did you see the Homestuck update?
19:53:42 <Arc_Koen> and since it is deterministic and if I am very very smart, is it possible to consider that random number generator a language?
19:53:56 <Arc_Koen> where a program is an arbitrarily large integer
19:54:40 <elliott> Sgeo: I haven't kept up with Homestuck in the last forever, so no.
19:54:40 <Arc_Koen> and then it would even be possible that it be turing complete or something
19:55:08 <atriq> Arc_Koen, there's an esolang like that, I'm sure
19:55:31 <Arc_Koen> something like http://esolangs.org/wiki/NULL?
19:55:35 -!- barts has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
19:55:46 <Arc_Koen> wait, no
19:56:23 -!- barts has joined.
19:56:47 <elliott> probably that message came in after you pinged out, so:
19:56:48 <elliott> barts: hi cheater, why are you ban-evading?
19:59:50 <Arc_Koen> atriq: well, if there is, it's not in the Zero-dimensional catgory
20:00:04 <atriq> That refers to data structure, I think
20:00:15 <Arc_Koen> though I guess it would be quite easy to build such a generator
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20:03:26 <Arc_Koen> for instance you have a bijection p : {boolfuck programs} -> N, and Random such that after "Random.seed(p(boolfuck program)) Random.f() Random.f()..." etc. with n iterations of Random.f(), the next Random.f() will result in an integer representing the state of the tape after executing n instructions
20:03:45 <Arc_Koen> wait that does not match the description I gave above
20:03:48 <elliott> apparently he is not so talkative about this topic
20:04:33 <Arc_Koen> anyway, that was my random thought of the moment
20:05:37 <atriq> elliott, barts is ban-evading because he's a cheater
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20:08:34 <zzo38> Trying to make this hardware description language, I have like this is it OK? andGate :: Mapper LogicGate; andSignal :: [Pin] -> Mapper Pin; orGate :: Mapper LogicGate; orSignal :: [Pin] -> Mapper Pin; notSignal :: Pin -> Mapper Pin; and so on for other logic gates
20:09:31 <atriq> What's the definition of Mapper?
20:09:40 <zzo38> type Mapper = ContT [Command] ((->) Int);
20:09:42 <atriq> Or the function
20:10:35 <zzo38> andGate = logicGate 0; andSignal = logicSignal 0; notSignal = nandSignal . return; logicGate x = LogicGate <$> addPart (LogicPart x); and so on.
20:13:02 <zzo38> The module Language.FamicomHDL defines most stuff, and then I have Language.FamicomHDL.Logic for logic gates, and then I can add Language.FamicomHDL.Cartridge, Language.FamicomHDL.Audio, Language.FamicomHDL.Memory, and so on
20:13:07 <Sgeo> Do something to make money, or write Clojure bindings for a crappy AW clone?
20:13:10 <Sgeo> Decisions, decisions
20:13:11 -!- barts has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:13:34 <Sgeo> Although with the former, I'd be working in the blub of a language known as LSL
20:13:36 <zzo38> Is it OK?
20:14:14 * Sgeo vaguely wonders what the LoperOS person would think of Tcl
20:14:39 <atriq> Sgeo, write a Clojure to LSL compiler
20:14:42 <atriq> In Tcl
20:15:52 <zzo38> atriq: Do you think these definition are OK?
20:16:41 <atriq> Hmm
20:16:47 <atriq> I've never thought of it, really
20:17:03 <atriq> It's not what I would do, but I'd probably do loads, then realise what I'm doing is impossible, then give up
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20:22:43 <atriq> Reddit's back uo
20:22:59 <atriq> I'm gonna pretend "uo" is an emoticon
20:23:04 <atriq> Oh no it's down again
20:23:20 <atriq> Must have been my browser cache
20:23:47 <FreeFull> ouo
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20:33:31 <Sgeo> atriq, I think it was briefly back up
20:33:42 <Sgeo> I accidentally got to a subreddit that I haven't been in before
20:35:37 <Sgeo> It's up
20:35:53 <Sgeo> And down
20:35:55 <Sgeo> And up
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21:55:10 <tswett> atriq: "uo" is a Lojban interjection expressing completion.
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