←2012-10-22 2012-10-23 2012-10-24→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:18:08 <kmc> damn you ec2
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00:28:02 <Sgeo> Dangit, I don't understand BitCoin enough to elaborate on my thoughts on http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988
00:29:06 <elliott> people still read loper-os for anything but yuks?
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00:29:51 <Sgeo> He has some interesting thoughts on Bitcoin, I think
00:30:07 <Sgeo> Actually, I find Loper-OS to be interesting rather often, if not perfect
00:35:33 <tswett> There is no computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers.
00:35:54 <tswett> Damned Gödel.
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00:42:34 <hagb4rd|afk> poor gödel finished himself
00:44:51 <hagb4rd|afk> lucky as i am.. i don't undestand the consequences of this theorem
00:45:08 <hagb4rd|afk> *his
00:56:14 <tswett> Eh, his incompleteness theorems are nothing special.
00:56:45 <tswett> They state, roughly, that there are things we will never know. Big whoop.
00:56:55 <tswett> His *completeness* theorem is something else, though.
00:57:15 <tswett> It implies that there is no computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers.
00:57:26 <tswett> *No computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers.*
00:57:46 <monqy> no computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers
00:57:59 <tswett> Yeah! Tell me about it!
00:58:25 <tswett> There is no computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers.
00:59:01 <tswett> You'd think that there'd be a computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers.
00:59:09 <tswett> But no, there is no computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers.
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01:01:50 <elliott> thanks
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06:21:10 <zzo38> Do look keys?
06:29:46 <elliott> yes
06:31:24 <barts> i disagree, zzo38
06:34:11 <zzo38> OK. Why?
06:34:29 <shachaf> I neither agree or disagree.
06:43:25 <elliott> barts: still at it?
06:48:53 <shachaf> barts: hi
06:49:05 <shachaf> barts: "do u hate me"
06:49:06 <Sgeo> Music update!
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07:29:10 <Sgeo> oh ffs
07:31:03 <elliott> hi
07:32:22 <shachaf> hi elliott!!!!!
07:33:04 <Sgeo> Fuck.
07:33:10 <monqy> hi
07:33:13 <Sgeo> Remind me never to tutor for money without a lot of documentation.
07:33:22 <Sgeo> Person is now trying to defraud his government, I think.
07:33:38 <monqy> what
07:33:51 <shachaf> <monqy> hi
07:33:54 <shachaf> :')
07:33:59 <Sgeo> He paid me, but is asking me to sign his sheet for reimbursement for far more money than he gave me
07:35:18 <monqy> what did you do..........................
07:35:58 <Sgeo> Tutored someone. He paid me. He is expecting to receive money back. I delayed on the paperwork. Now he's giving me paperwork to sign, but it says I tutored for more hours than actuality.
07:36:44 <elliott> hi
07:37:10 <shachaf> hi
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08:25:36 <Sgeo> Whatever. I wrote down and signed for the amount of tutoring paid for, although I have no idea if the actual list of sessions is accurate or not
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09:13:05 <mroman> There is no computable set of axioms that uniquely defines the natural numbers?
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09:25:43 <shachaf> kmc: Is there a way to write foo :: (a -> b) -> a -> Identity b which doesn't eta-expand without unsafeCoerce?
09:27:11 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy something
09:30:01 <shachaf> (Strictness-wise, that is.)
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10:31:41 <Arc_Koen> hello
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10:56:20 <elliott> Deewiant: Did CCBI 2 ever become a thing?
10:57:22 <Deewiant> Yes? http://iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa/befunge/ccbi.html
11:00:30 <elliott> Deewiant: I mean, a thing more than the thing it was.
11:00:33 <elliott> I remember there being some un-thinginess.
11:01:43 <Deewiant> Well, I'm working on the C library version of its funge-space right now and at some point I intend to convert/rewrite the interpreter itself in C as well. Does that count?
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11:05:55 <elliott> Deewiant: Oh, you're still writing that fungespace?
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11:07:42 <Deewiant> More "began working again a week ago" than "still", but yes. I'm doing some stuff related to it as part of a data structures course.
11:08:54 <elliott> Deewiant: Oh no, is it getting even fancier.
11:09:09 <Deewiant> Nothing that wasn't in the works anyway.
11:10:39 <elliott> Deewiant: So have you finally given up on D?
11:10:42 <Deewiant> I'm hoping to be able to throw out the hash table fallback in favour of using a decent spatial data structure for the boxes, and the course work is essentially trying that out and seeing if it's any good.
11:11:54 <Deewiant> Kinda-sorta. For this C makes the most sense IMO since I'm trying to stay as low-level as possible for performance. :-P C++ might be a better idea, but, well, it's C++.
11:12:25 <Deewiant> And my higher-level language of choice is Haskell so there isn't room for D.
11:12:44 <elliott> Deewiant: I guess shiro 2 will just have to beat you with Haskell then!!
11:12:49 <elliott> Even though C is totally cheating.
11:12:55 <elliott> Maybe I can write Shiro 2 in Rust.
11:12:57 <Deewiant> The main thing here is that D1 is totally deprecated, so if I have to convert my code to D2 I might as well convert it to C instead.
11:13:03 <elliott> That sounds sort of pleasant.
11:13:08 <elliott> Deewiant: I thought it was D2 already.
11:13:14 <Deewiant> Nope.
11:13:39 <shachaf> elliott: Did you know about GitHub's : pictures. :-(
11:13:40 <Deewiant> Hence good luck getting it to compile anywhere nowadays. :-P
11:14:10 <elliott> shachaf: GitHub's what?
11:14:22 <elliott> Deewiant: I needed good luck to compile it anywhere when D1 wasn't deprecated...
11:14:35 <Deewiant> elliott: That, too.
11:14:57 <shachaf> elliott: When you're editing text and press :
11:15:21 <elliott> shachaf: Smilies?
11:15:33 <shachaf> yes.
11:15:37 <elliott> Deewiant: Anyway CCBI 2 isn't going to have a scrubber-based debugger, is it?! Therefore Shiro is better.
11:16:17 <Deewiant> fizzie: Now that I ended up talking about this stuff: what's the most funge-space-allocation-intensive stuff fungot does and (how) can I easily make it do only that? I could use a 'ready-made' 'real-world' benchmark.
11:16:21 <Deewiant> elliott: Scrubber-based?
11:16:35 <elliott> Deewiant: You know, scrubbers like you have to seek around in media players.
11:16:40 <elliott> Deewiant: Except this one seeks in TIME.
11:16:53 <elliott> So you get to see the funge-space animated with all your IPs dancing around while you drag the scrubber along.
11:16:57 <elliott> And get the stack in a sidebar and so forth.
11:17:05 <elliott> Not exactly sure how that will work with TRDS, admittedly.
11:17:13 <Deewiant> Yeah I wanted to do that back when we were talking about the Funge debugging protocol thing.
11:17:34 <Deewiant> (Not in CCBI but in the external debugger program.)
11:18:03 <fizzie> I think Microsoft Visual Funge 2012 has that, right?
11:18:03 <Deewiant> I think I got approximately as far as drawing a triangle in an opengl frame with gtkhs.
11:18:39 <Deewiant> (That's pretty much what usually happens when I try to program something non-CLI.)
11:19:43 <Deewiant> elliott: With TRDS you just need to drag along executed ticks, not in-Funge ticks.
11:20:31 <Deewiant> Or then you can execute everything once and draw only the last executed tick matching the corresponding in-Funge tick, but that doesn't seem useful for a debugger.
11:25:37 <elliott> <Deewiant> elliott: With TRDS you just need to drag along executed ticks, not in-Funge ticks.
11:25:50 <elliott> Right, but it'd be cool if you somehow made the scrubber have a topology whereby it linked up with the previous ones and stuff.
11:25:58 <elliott> But I guess TRDS is too leaky for that anyway.
11:26:02 <Deewiant> Well yeah, you can make it fancy if you want.
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12:05:31 <fizzie> Deewiant: Oh, right, I forgot to answer. Um. My guess would be that it's the Underload interp that does the most funge-space manipulation. (Though it does it all with STRN, if that matters.)
12:06:48 <fizzie> Of the "major modules" (eh, heh), the babbling doesn't write much at all because it's all about FILE-seeking around and reading four-to-five byte things, and the Brainfuck has a 1000-cell tape that it manipulates (plus a few cells of state) and that's it.
12:07:45 <fizzie> The Underload, though, has the stack (and sometimes the program) both growing to negative X direction. (Though I suppose optimally you'd then need a "real-world" Underload benchmark to run in it.)
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12:10:41 <Deewiant> You should load the babble stuff into Funge-Space instead of using FILE. :-P
12:15:11 <Deewiant> But, thanks for the info. That's what I suspected anyhow; I recall messing with that Underload interpreter at some point.
12:15:29 <fizzie> There's that standalone copy of it somewhere too.
12:15:34 <fizzie> Easier to run than fungot.
12:15:35 <fungot> fizzie: ( and that's where your coding skills come into play?
12:15:41 <fizzie> ...
12:15:52 <Deewiant> I have an underload.b98 which is probably it.
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12:17:25 <fizzie> Also, having the babble stuff in fungespace would be such a memory-waster. (Admittedly, though, it'd then at least do the silly base-128 number-parsing only once.)
12:17:58 <fizzie> I was about to say "and I don't have that much memory to waste, anyway", but apparently fungot's box has (-/+ buffers/cache) 128M used, 872M free.
12:17:59 <fungot> fizzie: ok, what's next? fnord? yow! it's some people inside the wall!
12:18:26 <Deewiant> How much does it take up on disk?
12:18:52 <fizzie> The 'irc' style (which is the largest) is 195659600 + 1042812 bytes.
12:19:32 <fizzie> 627M for the whole chroot dir it runs in.
12:19:33 <Deewiant> Binary-loading that into a 32-bit fungespace would nicely eat up most of that 872M.
12:20:22 <fizzie> Given that with buffers/cache it's 888M used, 113M free, there's a reasonable change a large amount of it is already "in memory" in a sense anyway.
12:20:27 <Deewiant> In CCBI2, that is. In the hash table interpreters I guess you should something like double that.
12:20:29 <fizzie> Chance.
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13:10:43 <Arc_Koen> a language that doesn't have any form of conditonal statements
13:10:55 <Arc_Koen> that's basically an automaton, right?
13:12:51 <Arc_Koen> or don't we have a computational class for those
13:13:35 <Jafet> Your statement is conditional on what a conditional statement is
13:13:55 <Arc_Koen> oh, yes
13:14:12 <Arc_Koen> well, I'm reading http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Beebles
13:14:24 <Arc_Koen> basically it has 13 simple commands to manipulate two stacks
13:14:44 <Arc_Koen> but none of those commands can retrieve information from the stack
13:15:32 <Arc_Koen> oh wait it does have "if the top item of the stack is not 0" on the jump command
13:15:35 <Arc_Koen> don't know why I missed that
13:15:42 <Arc_Koen> ok, but imagine it didn't
13:16:26 <Jafet> It could have unconditional computed goto
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13:16:59 <Arc_Koen> what do you mean?
13:17:06 <Jafet> pop x -> goto x
13:19:01 <Jafet> If there is a fork command, you could also make the interpreter angry in the branch that you don't want to run.
13:19:02 <Arc_Koen> I'm pretty sure the "pop" commands pops and discards the top item
13:19:55 <Arc_Koen> well it does have a "kill" command so making the interpreter angry shouldn't be necessary
13:21:35 <Jafet> But without a conditional operator, you can't exercise discretion on killing the program
13:22:04 <Arc_Koen> as far as I know you can't exercise discretion on making the interpreter angry, either
13:22:43 <Jafet> You can push some numbers that happen to be prime if a condition is met
13:22:57 <Arc_Koen> ouh, nice
13:23:13 <Arc_Koen> ok, but it's limited to 30 numbers on the stack anyway
13:33:48 <Arc_Koen> @tell AnotherTest well apparently you were right, zzz is not strictly-speaking equivalent to brainfuck... see cpressey's comment on zzzzzz!
13:33:48 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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13:35:16 <shachaf> elliott: Why am I awake?
13:35:42 <elliott> who knows
13:35:58 <shachaf> who: Why am I awake?
13:36:09 <shachaf> elliott: who is a doctor right
13:44:00 <shachaf> foo ℓ = foo' True
13:44:22 <ais523> hmm, writing comments in BF is annoying
13:44:31 <ais523> the only punctuation mark you can normally use is the semicolon
13:44:36 <shachaf> Just zencode them.
13:44:40 <ais523> so you use it in all sorts of contexts it'd otherwise be inappropriate
13:44:50 <Jafet> y u no type lik this lol?
13:44:58 <shachaf> Or write them like telegrams.
13:44:58 <ais523> oh, and ? and !
13:45:07 <shachaf> And ()
13:45:14 <ais523> you can't use () in BF Joust
13:45:20 <ais523> which is where I mostly write BF comments
13:45:21 <shachaf> Oh, Joust.
13:46:05 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_style
13:46:46 <Jafet> There is a telegram exchange consisting of "?", followed by "!"
13:48:05 <shachaf> It's mentioned on that page.
13:48:16 <shachaf> «In 1843, a school girl remarked that General Charles James Napier on his having conquered the Indian province of Sindh, should have sent the telegram peccavi, Latin for "I have sinned", as used in the confessional.[2]»
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13:49:04 <elliott> <ais523> so you use it in all sorts of contexts it'd otherwise be inappropriate
13:49:11 <elliott> ais523: you already do that though! :)
13:58:42 <ais523> I mean, even more so
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14:48:23 <AnotherTest> Hello
14:48:23 <lambdabot> AnotherTest: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
14:48:29 <AnotherTest> @messages
14:48:29 <lambdabot> Arc_Koen said 1h 14m 41s ago: well apparently you were right, zzz is not strictly-speaking equivalent to brainfuck... see cpressey's comment on zzzzzz!
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14:48:54 <Arc_Koen> yeah, "zz" is a command and "zzz" is another
14:49:02 <Arc_Koen> so parsing might turn out to be somewhat difficult
14:49:18 <AnotherTest> The author probably thought it was a good idea
14:49:31 <AnotherTest> but was obviously worng
14:49:33 <AnotherTest> *wrong
14:51:31 <AnotherTest> "Intended brainfuck equivalent, but failed"
14:51:32 <AnotherTest> ?
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15:01:42 <Arc_Koen> AnotherTest: I'm starting to think we should have a category for that :p
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15:03:59 <kmc> is there an esolang whose syntax consists entirely of invisible unicode characters?
15:04:05 <atriq> Whitespace?
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15:04:38 <kmc> zero-width as well, i mean
15:05:00 <atriq> Unispace?
15:06:55 <Arc_Koen> well you can start an Emmental program by renaming all instructions \0, \1, etc.
15:07:44 <kmc> soft hyphen is a fun invisible character
15:08:01 <kmc> as are the various bidirectional overrides/embeds
15:08:24 <Jafet> What happens when you use a combining mark next to an invisible character?
15:10:00 <Jafet> You know, if you create this language and use it to implement itself, it would probably be the first unicode aware self-interpreter
15:10:07 <Jafet> for an esolang
15:11:31 <elliott> I was about to say
15:12:54 <kmc> hm I guess the prevalence of brainfuck equivalents is a corollary of Wadler's Law
15:13:58 <atriq> I knew someone called Wadler.
15:14:03 <atriq> I wonder how he's doing
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15:17:11 <ais523> Jafet: I think I wrote a partial Underlambda interp which was Unicode-aware for no obvious reason
15:17:16 <ais523> but it wasn't a self-interp
15:17:17 <barts_> you can name things with utf word characters in php. is php an esoteric language?
15:18:18 <Jafet> No, PHP lacks even that redeeming quality
15:18:37 <Jafet> Also, it's not really unicode aware
15:18:50 <Jafet> https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=18556
15:19:18 <Jafet> I guess it is unicode aware, it just becomes aware that it can break things in more ways
15:19:24 <ais523> huh, I recognise the email address of the reporter
15:19:26 <ais523> but am not sure from where
15:19:44 <barts_> i remember you were able to use non-breaking spaces in names
15:20:24 <Arc_Koen> hey is there a "random" service on google ?
15:20:25 <barts_> in another life, you were a php developer
15:20:29 <Arc_Koen> like, show me random pages from the internet
15:20:33 <ais523> Jafet: it looks like it's using the current locale to parse identifiers
15:20:50 <Jafet> A good approximation is to search for porn
15:20:58 <ais523> anyway, in Turkish, lowercase I is ı, capital i is İ
15:21:02 <Jafet> And throw in random words
15:21:13 <ais523> Jafet: I doubt it, porn is one of the most heavily seo'd of industries
15:22:21 <Arc_Koen> also, how the hell does the "I'm feeling lucky" button work? as soon as you start typing you're redirected to the search page
15:22:53 <Jafet> Try
15:22:55 <Jafet> pressing it
15:23:37 <ais523> Arc_Koen: it automatically goes to the first result
15:23:49 <Arc_Koen> ais523: my point is it cannot be pressed
15:23:53 <Arc_Koen> or clicked or whatever
15:23:54 <ais523> the name is because if you're lucky, the first result will be what you want
15:24:05 <ais523> Arc_Koen: well it probably only works if you have instant results off
15:24:10 <Arc_Koen> oh
15:24:12 <Arc_Koen> how do I do that
15:24:22 <elliott> haha, wow
15:24:30 <elliott> so I'm feeling lucky is now a button that exists just to be there
15:24:33 <elliott> that's beautiful
15:25:00 <Jafet> I bet Clint Eastwood uses it.
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15:25:09 <Arc_Koen> (also, if I hover the mouse over it, it starts spinning
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15:25:42 <ais523> Arc_Koen: it's in the options somewhere
15:25:52 <Arc_Koen> and is replaced by random stuff like "I'm feeling hungry" or "I'm feeling stellar" (which redirects to results for "restaurants" or image results for "nebulae", respectively)
15:25:55 <ais523> elliott: it's probably like the upvote/downvote counter on Reddit
15:26:01 <ais523> the numbers are actually entirely made up
15:26:04 <Arc_Koen> ais523: recently I haven't even be able to get google in english
15:26:20 <elliott> IIRC Google did studies that said people would be super mad if they got rid of I'm feeling lucky
15:26:26 <elliott> even though nobody actually /used/ it
15:26:29 <Arc_Koen> other than manually typing google.com/search?hl=en&q=(query here)
15:26:36 <ais523> but apparently user feedback was that they preferred blatant lies to removing the values entirely
15:26:46 <ais523> elliott: yes, I thought it'd be similar to the reddit situation
15:26:58 <kmc> what's the reddit situation
15:27:04 <ais523> every now and then someone asks why there are so many downvotes on what looks like an uncontroversial post, and someone has to explain
15:27:30 <ais523> Arc_Koen: well I dislike Google, and typically preferred other search engines
15:27:32 <kmc> Arc_Koen: haha, I never noticed the spin before
15:27:40 <Arc_Koen> neither did I
15:27:41 <ais523> I used Wikia Search back when it existed
15:27:48 <kmc> the numbers are entirely made up?
15:27:54 <ais523> (note: I started hating Wikia some time after it stopped existing, so there's no real contradiction there)
15:27:55 <Arc_Koen> ais523: well I'm seriously considering using something else
15:27:56 <kmc> then what is it based on
15:28:07 <ais523> nowadays I use DuckDuckGo
15:28:22 <ais523> kmc: nothing
15:28:23 <Arc_Koen> wasn't that just a proxied google?
15:28:28 <ais523> it's just upvote and downvote numbers that add up to the right thing
15:28:34 <ais523> Arc_Koen: it's mostly a proxied Bing, acutally
15:28:41 <kmc> but the net upvotes - downvotes is real?
15:28:45 <ais523> Jafet: yes
15:28:53 <ais523> *kmc: yes
15:28:55 <ais523> Jafet: sorry about the misping
15:28:59 <kmc> i see
15:29:09 <Jafet> I feel misped.
15:29:14 <elliott> ais523: I think it is actually based on the real numbers.
15:29:19 <elliott> They're just so heavily fudged it's meaningless.
15:29:35 <ais523> that would seem strictly inferior just to making it entirely fudged
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15:43:17 <ais523> Jafet: anyway that PHP bug you linked seems to be a demonstration of the fundamental problem that it's impossible to be case-insensitive in every language at once
15:43:43 <ais523> the only backwards-compatible solution I can think of would be to insist that PHP identifiers are case-insensitive in English, regardless of what language is being used to process data
15:44:02 <ais523> meanwhile, the PHP devs are trying (and failing) to solve every possibility at once, which is ofc impossible
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15:45:41 <elliott> ais523: it's perfectly possible to fail at that
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15:49:54 <ais523> elliott: not sure I understand
15:50:02 <ais523> oh, I see
15:50:06 <ais523> you intentionally misparsed my sentence
15:50:24 <tswett> Well, it's possible to be case-insensitive in every language at once. Simply make no distinctions at all.
15:50:46 <kmc> the PHP developers are trying and failing so hard at so many things
15:50:53 <tswett> The downside is that this means that there is only one usable identifier.
15:51:27 <tswett> Anyway, what happens if you try to be case-insensitive in every language at once? Can you show that if you do that, then two "obviously different" identifiers end up being the same?
15:52:45 <Jafet> How would one be case-insensitive in chinese
15:53:15 <tswett> Chinese makes no case distinctions. I'd say it's impossible *not* to be case-insensitive in Chinese.
15:54:49 <Arc_Koen> on the contrary
15:55:00 <Jafet> So you can be case-sensitive and case-insensitive at the same time
15:55:43 <tswett> Well, if you define "case-sensitive" as "sensitive to at least one case distinction", and "case-insensitive" as "not sensitive to any case distinction"...
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16:09:35 <Sgeo> How soon after a job fair will employers typically contact you if they're interested
16:10:56 <Jafet> You could ask them
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16:29:45 <Arc_Koen> Sgeo: did he say "we'll be contacting you" or something?
16:30:42 <Sgeo> One of them said if you don't hear back from us, let me know. I don't remember about the others
16:32:23 <Arc_Koen> the logical answer to that would be to let him know immediately, and then if in the future when you hear back from them, use your time machine to stop yourself from letting them know
16:37:23 <atriq> I'm sure xkcd has made that joke before
16:38:55 <Jafet> I don't remember that. Perhaps Munroe thought it was trite and went back in time to erase it.
16:53:20 <zzo38> Does Famicompo Mini have a maximum song duration rule?
17:02:37 <kmc> that's like the law of the excluded middle
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17:17:47 <kmc> Sgeo: i don't think there's a circumstance where it hurts to try to contact them again
17:18:36 <kmc> not to be like "WHY WON'T YOU TALK TO ME?!?!?!!?" but just "I enjoyed talking to everyone at the job fair, and I'm excited to hear back about the next steps"
17:19:40 <Sgeo> kmc, well, that one employer gave a time frame
17:20:06 <kmc> even then I don't think it would hurt to send them an email
17:21:32 <kmc> companies like to see that you are excited
17:22:30 <Jafet> Dear Shankly,
17:22:31 <Jafet> Yours sincerely
17:22:42 <kmc> is the company actually called shankly
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18:07:22 <zzo38> Or, is that the name of the people whose job it is to give you a paycheck?
18:08:06 <zzo38> kmc: What are you saying is like law of excluded middle?
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18:13:30 <kmc> 'let him know immediately, and then if in the future when you hear back from them, use your time machine to stop yourself from letting them know'
18:14:03 <kmc> it is like the proof of excluded middle using call/cc i.e. peirce's law
18:15:18 <Sgeo> Here, have some absolutely disgusting gross and, worst of all, useless Clojure code that I wrote
18:15:19 <Sgeo> http://ideone.com/BTJxYN
18:15:56 <zzo38> O, so that is how it is. I don't entirely see how it is like that, but I guess it may be. (I think I made a law of excluded middle by call/cc)
18:16:02 <kmc> "p is false! what, you claim p is true and provide a proof? let me just steal your proof and go back in time and claim that p was true all along!"
18:16:09 <kmc> ^----- this is what classical logic actually believes
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18:18:55 <zzo38> O, I suppose that is sort of like law of excluded middle with call/cc, although classical logic is not about time like this
18:19:25 <kmc> yeah
18:19:29 <zzo38> Since I have once made the law of excluded middle from call/cc you may have seen before on this channel.
18:19:41 <zzo38> And it is somewhat like how you described.
18:19:42 <kmc> it's not entirely fair and accurate way to interpret classical logic
18:19:44 <kmc> but it is amusing
18:20:01 <zzo38> OK
18:21:02 <kmc> (call-cc (lambda (cont) (Left (lambda (proof-of-p) (cont (Right proof-of-p))))))
18:21:30 <kmc> shankly would be a good name for a social network devoted to swapping information about how to shank people in prison
18:21:35 <kmc> http://achewood.com/index.php?date=01142005
18:23:02 <zzo38> Mine was Haskell, but OK
18:26:54 <AnotherTest> What syntax highlighting schemes do you all use in vim? I'm sort of trying vim out for the first time, but I dislike the white background and yellow colors when I do :syntax on
18:28:24 <boily> AnotherTest: I use an old revision of lucius, slightly tweaked to fit with a transparent darkish background.
18:28:41 <kmc> i use the default but my terminal is white on black
18:28:51 <AnotherTest> aha
18:29:02 <AnotherTest> Debian seems to have black on white as a default
18:29:04 <AnotherTest> I should change that
18:30:37 <FreeFull> AnotherTest: White background? Are you using gvim? =P
18:30:59 <FreeFull> Ah
18:31:05 <AnotherTest> No, the debian terminal seems to have white as the default background
18:31:07 <FreeFull> What terminal do you use?
18:31:10 <AnotherTest> I changed that now
18:32:20 <AnotherTest> FreeFull: the same with in another profile (gnome-terminal)
18:34:33 <AnotherTest> so
18:34:38 <AnotherTest> dumb question
18:34:47 <AnotherTest> How do I switch to a second tab again?
18:35:03 <AnotherTest> If I did vim -p *.ext
18:35:56 <FreeFull> I think it's :n
18:37:08 <AnotherTest> It worked with :n
18:37:09 <AnotherTest> thanks
18:37:40 <FreeFull> You could just close the current file with :q too
18:37:44 <FreeFull> But then you can't come back to it
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19:01:09 <kmc> there are trapdoors that you can't come back from
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19:06:37 <zzo38> Also my law of excluded middle in Haskell put Left and Right the other way around but basically that is what it was
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19:45:44 <zzo38> How do you tilt an underground cave?
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19:58:16 <quintopia> tectonic motion
19:59:10 <quintopia> also, by replacing once side of it with neutronium
20:04:36 <zzo38> I don't think we have any of those things.
20:09:33 <quintopia> what is this for? d&d?
20:10:00 <zzo38> Yes
20:11:49 <quintopia> why do you need to tilt it?
20:12:12 <zzo38> To gain an advantage in fighting the demon who owns it.
20:13:12 <zzo38> I already realized some things: I have an amulet which can negate magic, which I think will cause the water on the ceiling to fall down, extinguishing the candles, but it is probably not enough to cause much of a flood.
20:14:01 <zzo38> This antimagic will still help a lot, though, since they will not be able to cast any spells at us.
20:15:46 <quintopia> is there another way to get advantage (besides the usual stuff)?
20:16:49 <boily> flanking, partial/complete cover, and the maneuver that shall not be named.
20:33:26 <zzo38> Sure those are some ways, but I think tilting the floor will help a bit, and so will the anti-magic. One thing that can be done with the anti-magic is cause the water to fall down, so we can pick it up and extinguish the candles which are lit around that room.
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20:40:33 <Arc_Koen> @seen Oerjan
20:40:34 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
20:40:48 <Arc_Koen> !seen oerjan
20:40:56 <Arc_Koen> `seen oerjan
20:41:07 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: seen: not found
20:42:07 <Arc_Koen> ah, /ns info is responding
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21:02:25 <Sgeo> Arrow's theorem sucks. (As in, the implications suck, not as in I think that it's incorrect)
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21:14:19 <Arc_Koen> ais523: imagine I had created a wiki page for an "esolang" and was especially ashamed of it
21:14:39 <Arc_Koen> because it is a derivative of an already existing esolang, and doesn't bring anything new or interesting at all
21:15:02 <Arc_Koen> could I blank the page or something?
21:29:37 <Sgeo> Arc_Koen, you could just ask Phantom_Hoover to kill you
21:30:13 <Arc_Koen> hey! it's not even a brainfuck derivative!
21:30:30 <olsner> to people tend to survive getting their brain replaced with a brick?
21:30:34 <olsner> *do
21:30:47 <Arc_Koen> apparently yes
21:31:06 <Arc_Koen> he threatened someone to have his brain repeatedly replaced with a brick then replaced with the brain again
21:31:47 <Phantom_Hoover> it's totally harmless
21:31:59 <olsner> for the brick or for the person?
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21:37:26 <Phantom_Hoover> no comment
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21:44:02 <zzo38> Maybe you know why, in this Dungeons&Dragons game, that I need a wig and nail clipper and facial hair trimmer? (Hint: I don't use them on myself! Also, the wig has two purposes and the others only one.)
21:44:18 <zzo38> Probably you don't know because I haven't told you, but you can try to figure out.
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22:05:52 <Sgeo> Based on the hearts surrounding it when it was briefly shown in one of the videos, I think http://blog.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom/ likes Schulze voting
22:06:27 <Phantom_Hoover> wooo i got my first letter from tv licensing trying to extort me
22:06:42 <Phantom_Hoover> at last i am a man grown
22:09:07 <zzo38> What are they writing?
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22:12:15 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, uh, do you know how TV licensing works
22:13:15 <zzo38> No
22:13:24 <zzo38> Not quite.
22:14:10 <Phantom_Hoover> you need to pay for a license to watch live tv on any device
22:14:36 <Phantom_Hoover> and the attitude of the agency that collects it is that the onus is on you to prove that you don't have to pay
22:14:37 <zzo38> O, yes, in England yes I read that somewhere. I still don't know exactly how they work, though.
22:14:53 <zzo38> How can you prove that you don't have to pay?
22:15:33 <Phantom_Hoover> by not being caught watching live tv
22:15:54 <Phantom_Hoover> even if you never do that they'll still assume you're a freeloader and try to intimidate you
22:17:48 <coppro> lol
22:17:49 <coppro> usa
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22:19:10 <zzo38> I think I read somewhere, you can watch it later, you don't have to pay, and that if it is black and white you still have to pay but not as much as colors?
22:19:34 <zzo38> Is that how it works?
22:22:06 <Phantom_Hoover> dunno about the second part
22:22:09 <Phantom_Hoover> first part is true
22:22:18 * Sgeo vaguely wonders if it would be possible to have a voting system where voters submit functions.
22:23:06 <zzo38> Do you have to pay for audio? I think I might have read somewhere that you don't but I am unsure.
22:23:07 <Sgeo> As in, apparently one criticism of IRV is that voters can't actually change where their "next" vote goes based on who lost, so multiple rounds gives more flexibility.
22:23:15 <Sgeo> But maybe a function that ... hm
22:25:04 <zzo38> Could they encrypt the broadcasts and then broadcast the key afterward, so that if you don't pay you are forced to watch after you can decrypt the recording you have made?
22:32:48 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9rk-JTCCck
22:33:31 <coppro> Sgeo: possible, certainly
22:33:34 <coppro> worth it? probably not
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23:25:24 <Sgeo> I should play Alchemy
23:25:48 <Sgeo> I actually bought the standalone version a long time ago
23:26:02 <Sgeo> I want to say PC version, but the flash version runs on PCs, so..
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23:29:09 <zzo38> Many programs can run on PCs.
23:29:29 <kmc> git log --pretty=%s | grep ^[A-Z] | awk '{print $1}' | sort | uniq -c | sort -nr | head -n 10
23:29:38 <zzo38> Whether it is native codes, running standalone, by an operating system, or an emulator, it may run.
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23:33:29 <Sgeo> Yeah, but what's the best way to distinguish between the Flash version of a game and a version that's a .exe?
23:34:49 <Sgeo> Hmm, it seems to actually be Java not Flash
23:35:28 <zzo38> If it is a Windows .exe file then call it the Windows version.
23:36:48 <zzo38> I think it should only be called software for PC if it is meant to run on the PC with only the hardware and BIOS not needing operating system and so on. That way, you can distinguished more easily you can say specifically what operating system/programming language/whatever if it is for some specific system.
23:37:23 <Sgeo> After having watched a video of some expert playing Alchemy, I realized I have no idea of basic Alchemy strategy
23:37:53 <Sgeo> The person discarded runes that could have been placed
23:37:57 <Sgeo> Rather often, actually
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