00:00:14 <Vorpal> Arc_Koen, at least it appears to be based on the original movies, not the prequels.
00:00:17 <Phantom_Hoover> you'd basically have to do it "dna style" and have an attached protein that substitutes along a structure, splittting it into two behind it
00:00:44 <Arc_Koen> Vorpal: movies? THEY DID ANGRY BIRD MOVIES??
00:00:47 <Vorpal> Arc_Koen, and the music is better than the normal terrible angry birds music. Other than that is basically the same idea.
00:00:49 <Bike> how excitingly exotic
00:00:52 <Vorpal> Arc_Koen, no the star wars ones
00:01:08 <Vorpal> Arc_Koen, since it is angry birds star wars
00:01:17 <Arc_Koen> they did angry birds star wars movies????
00:01:27 <Vorpal> Arc_Koen, they did angry birds star wars game
00:01:41 <Vorpal> Arc_Koen, which is based on star wars 3-6
00:01:50 <Arc_Koen> oh hey I just saw an ad for twilight 5 today
00:01:54 <elliott> really through could a hypothetical angry birds star wars film really be worse than the prequels
00:01:56 <Vorpal> so no Jar Jar Binks at least
00:02:06 <Vorpal> elliott, hm... that is a close call
00:02:08 <fizzie> Vorpal: Not 4-6? But you said "original".
00:02:17 <Vorpal> fizzie, err I meant 4-6
00:02:23 <Vorpal> fizzie, off by one error
00:02:38 <elliott> i don't even like star wars and i want to see the new films coming out
00:02:45 <elliott> they will either be a trainwreck or surprisingly good
00:02:57 <elliott> either way it'll be entertaining
00:02:58 <Vorpal> elliott, glad I'm not alone in not being a fan of star wars
00:02:59 <pikhq_> It doesn't have Lucas running the show, which is very promising.
00:03:02 <fizzie> FreeFull: Angry Lego Birds Star Wars.
00:03:37 <Vorpal> fizzie, from what I heard the Lego games are usually actually kind of good
00:03:44 <Arc_Koen> but everytime he speaks I can't seem to manage to understand what he says
00:13:54 <kmc> i think maybe it is harder to get over someone being annoying in the past than it is to forgive them for doing something specific to hurt you
00:14:05 <kmc> because annoyance is this basic conditioning thing
00:14:20 <kmc> it gets to the point where whenever you hear their voice you are automatically annoyed
00:16:23 <elliott> and that's why I can never forgive kmc
00:24:46 * pikhq_ contemplates replacing his facebook page with a series of figurative thermonuclear bombs
00:26:51 <elliott> how figurative are we talking here
00:27:42 <pikhq_> Well, I'll get to see who amongst family and friends is homophobic, and to what degree.
00:28:38 <elliott> that's at least 7 figurative
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00:44:38 <elliott> i literally just asked how figurative they are
00:46:09 <kmc> figurative neutron bomb
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01:01:42 <Arc_Koen> it's funny how the plot in atlantis' first season seems to be exactly the same as in sg1's first season
01:02:11 <Arc_Koen> except in sg1 it felt like the gate gave us an opening on a huge new world
01:02:35 <Arc_Koen> and in atlantis it feels like they're stranded in a very small place
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01:14:53 <coppro> Arc_Koen: rather, yeah
01:15:13 <Arc_Koen> well as small as a galaxy can be
01:15:24 <Arc_Koen> also, I had a few questions for you
01:15:44 <Arc_Koen> they've repeated several times that "the gate on this planet is the only one that can dial to earth"
01:15:56 <Arc_Koen> how the hell do they know that and why the hell would it be true?
01:16:26 <coppro> I don't know if it's established how they work at out
01:16:39 <Arc_Koen> also, back when there were two active stargates on earth, how come incoming wormholes always hooked to sgc's stargate and never to the russian one?
01:16:42 <coppro> but at some point it's mentioned that the Atlantis DHD contains a special control crystal to allow it to dial 8 chevrons
01:17:03 <coppro> Because the Russians were really good at timing connecting and disconnecting the DHD
01:17:22 <kmc> this is how we fix things on the russian space station
01:17:27 <Arc_Koen> so you can just disconnect the dhd and the gate will no longer work<,
01:17:38 <coppro> it will still accept wormholes
01:17:50 <coppro> but when it was disconnected, the SG-1 gate became primary
01:18:30 <kmc> should one watch stargate?
01:18:35 <Arc_Koen> and when it's connected, it becomes primary for offworld russian teams?
01:18:39 <coppro> it's implied that primary-ness is also determined by the most recent use
01:19:11 <coppro> since the Antartica gate didn't become primary
01:19:43 <Arc_Koen> also, what about those very very advanced guys on the planet that didn't have a gate?
01:19:58 <Arc_Koen> those who made up the clorel/scar trial
01:20:17 <coppro> Arc_Koen: Yes. The Russians somehow managed to time their dial-ins so that they wouldn't accidentally get a US team
01:20:36 <coppro> (also klorel & skarra, I believe)
01:20:38 <Arc_Koen> coppro: I just don't understand how they managed not to go to the sgc
01:21:16 <Arc_Koen> at some point in the series (probably seaosn 5) they simply stopped mentionning them
01:21:34 <coppro> Arc_Koen: They timed when they would dial ack
01:21:42 <coppro> "We will dial back in in 6 hours"
01:21:50 <Bike> i thought the tollan died at some point
01:22:04 <coppro> what about the tollan?
01:22:28 <Arc_Koen> but how does the fact that they will dial back in in 6 hours prevent them from going to the sgc gate?
01:23:04 <Arc_Koen> Bike: well I remember during the trial episode, sg1 saved their asses
01:23:11 <Arc_Koen> and then I never heard of them again
01:23:27 <Bike> i thought they died then though...
01:23:34 <Arc_Koen> except maybe in the "the-NDI-steals-artifacts" episode
01:23:38 <Bike> well, let me consult the inevitable wiki
01:23:57 <coppro> Arc_Koen: The Russians reconnect the DHD 6 hours later
01:24:08 <Arc_Koen> yes, but the sgc gate is connected as well
01:24:18 <Bike> «Anubis found a way to make his fleet impervious to the Tollan Ion cannons, their only defense, they met their eventual destruction» oh that douche
01:24:21 <coppro> right but the active DHD causes the Russian gate to take priority
01:24:38 <Arc_Koen> hmmmm I might have missed that episode
01:24:50 <coppro> it was probably mentioned off-hand somewhere
01:25:16 <Arc_Koen> like, "oh btw, the tollans were exterminated last week. wanna go fishing?"
01:25:30 <Bike> they were jerks, weren't they
01:25:50 <Arc_Koen> what about those guys from 2010?
01:26:10 <Arc_Koen> I was expecting them to reappear at some point or another, did I miss that too?
01:26:54 <Arc_Koen> (you know the people who supposedly formed an alliance with earth, then stopped everyone from being able to reproduce, then sg1 had to go back in time)
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01:53:25 <ion> I shoud rewatch SG. I don’t remember much about it anymore.
01:53:35 <ion> For instance, i don’t remember the Tollans.
01:54:11 <ion> They look familiar in a Google image search, but i don’t remember the relevant plot.
02:03:04 <Arc_Koen> ion: plot is "we're the tollans. we're technologically far more advanced than everyone else. we're invincible. but we'd rather watch you die than share with you."
02:03:17 <Arc_Koen> and apparently they are the ones who die
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02:28:48 <kmc> David Simon's blog is called "The Audacity of Despair"
03:08:16 <kmc> http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/63991000/gif/_63991516_race.gif
03:28:23 <Gregor> http://whitepeoplemourningromney.tumblr.com/
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03:57:09 <pikhq_> Gregor: Dammit I want ponies
03:57:16 <pikhq_> Why am I addressing that to Gregor?
03:57:23 <pikhq_> Everyone else: Dammit I want ponies
03:57:40 <kmc> what kind?
03:57:56 <kmc> a pony is a big responsibility, pikhq_
03:58:17 * pikhq_ has actually taken care of horses before.
03:59:10 <Gregor> My Little Ponies are considerably less responsibility.
03:59:14 <Gregor> Seeing as how they're sapient.
03:59:21 <kmc> that's rather worse!
03:59:30 <kmc> if you kill them you can go to jail for murder
03:59:37 <kmc> it's like having a child
04:00:13 <pikhq_> You think of killing things when assigned a new responsibility?
04:00:17 <pikhq_> You should not have a pony.
04:03:23 <pikhq_> That said, 2 more days
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04:07:40 <kmc> look i'm just talking about the worst case scenario
04:08:18 <pikhq_> That's not the worst case scenario.
04:08:36 <pikhq_> The worst case scenario is that someone puts HF in your drinking water.
04:11:25 <pikhq_> Mmmm, tastes like agonizing death!
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04:14:08 <kmc> i think the worst case scenario is that a malevolent AI instantiates 2^80 copies of you in a simulacrum designed to produce the maximum possible pain and existential terror, forever
04:14:49 <pikhq_> Come now, that's not even close to the worst case scenario.
04:14:57 <pikhq_> I can think of numbers larger than 2^80!
04:16:14 <kmc> yeah, well
04:16:27 <shachaf> product [1..2^80]? That's pretty big.
04:16:44 <monqy> but would it be any worse or would it start getting better
04:16:51 <shachaf> I feel no sympathy for copies of me.
04:17:51 <monqy> maybe after a certain point it'd gradually stop being terrifying and start being goofy
04:18:14 <shachaf> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a6/Goofy.svg/220px-Goofy.svg.png
04:18:44 <kmc> which should i buy, a Windows 7 license I won't use or a Windows 8 license I won't use
04:19:17 <monqy> something you'll use
04:19:27 <shachaf> What about a Windows 3.11 license?
04:19:39 <kmc> assume that i must buy exactly one of these two
04:19:55 <shachaf> Are you certain not to use it?
04:20:05 <kmc> they are the same price
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04:23:06 <kmc> elliott: you are a true statesman
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04:24:52 <shachaf> elliott: a true scotsman ??
04:25:32 <pikhq_> Nah, he is no true Scotsman.
04:25:40 <pikhq_> No *true* Scotsman is not from Scotland!
04:25:54 <shachaf> Isn't Hexham basically Scotland?
04:26:20 <pikhq_> But it's not actually!
04:26:23 <shachaf> Hexham-upon-Thyme, Scotland
04:26:39 <pikhq_> They have *seven* pigs in Scotland.
04:27:02 <shachaf> That's as many as seven ones.
04:27:40 <elliott> shachaf: what has true scotsman got to do with what i said
04:28:14 <shachaf> It wasn't even addressed to you.
04:28:27 <elliott> <shachaf> elliott: a true scotsman ??
04:28:54 <shachaf> Cambridge, MA: Greater Boston Area or Greatest Boston Area?
04:29:00 <elliott> i don't quite see what you get out of outright obviously lying here
04:29:20 <kmc> greater boston buddhist cultural center
04:29:21 <shachaf> When you say "blah: blam?", it doesn't mean you're addressing blah.
04:29:28 <pikhq_> shachaf: Cambridge, MA: Real Boston.
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04:40:56 <kmc> imaginary boston
04:41:17 <pikhq_> Boston points in the complex plane.
04:47:46 <kmc> shachaf: i ordered the whatsit
04:48:03 <kmc> inanimate carbon rod
04:48:09 <kmc> i've got no soul to sell
04:48:25 <shachaf> You ordered the .au version?
04:48:40 <kmc> i ordered the i5 / 8GB
04:50:21 <kmc> M.A.T.H.S.
04:51:06 <shachaf> `learn maths stands for Mathematical Anti-Telharsic Harfatum Septomin
04:52:42 <quintopia> :/ there is no way to type backtick in connectbot on this phone
04:56:50 <kmc> ``for writing LaTeX'', he said
04:56:52 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `for: not found
04:57:48 <quintopia> i bet there's an android latex editor
05:11:17 <ais523> in Emacs pressing " will type `` or '' depending on context
05:11:23 <ais523> and you get a literal " by typing ""
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06:29:21 <kmc> oh boy, we get to add "frequentist statisticians" to the list of groups xkcd has strawmanned
06:30:12 <kmc> at least it makes a good goatkcd
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06:52:54 <ais523> <netbsd> I've tested it to work with Firefox and tested it to not work with Internet Explorer.
06:53:58 <ais523> kmc: surely the easiest way to check would be to contact someone on the other side of the world over IRC
06:54:03 <ais523> and ask them if the sun was still visible?
06:54:43 <fizzie> ais523: They might lie more often than that detector.
07:04:15 <Sgeo> Suppose you can't find anyone. Possibilities: The Sun exploding killed everyone on that side, some virus that needs its victims to be exposed to daylight ran rampant and killed everyone
07:04:31 <Sgeo> Hmm, there would be some survivors of the latter, I'm sure
07:05:16 <Bike> but would they have phones? (use your prior distribution of daylight in your answer)
07:07:48 <pikhq_> Stupidly obvious answer: look at the moon.
07:09:20 <fizzie> Which also wouldn't be visible, since circumstances conspire to make this as difficult as possible.
07:09:47 <Sgeo> That comma was intended to indicate a different scenario
07:09:48 <fizzie> (I remember a short story about sun going nova that involved deducing it from a really bright moon.)
07:10:10 <pikhq_> Well, the Bayesian has the correct answer. Bet on the sun still existing.
07:10:23 <pikhq_> If it doesn't exist, your money will be null and void soon anyways.
07:11:25 <pikhq_> And thus, anyone taking him up on the bet is either giving up money, or convinced the sun exploded and just doesn't care any more.
07:13:36 <fizzie> Sun, pshaw. What's it good for, anyway? Just a cause for annoying glares on screens.
07:13:54 <fizzie> We'll just turn on the lights if it goes out.
07:15:16 <pikhq_> Corrected: fizzie has the correct answer.
07:15:35 <Sgeo> How much of the sun's energy do we actually need? Enough to grow crops and keep the air and water at a survivable temperature, but surely a lot is wasted?
07:15:58 <Bike> most of it doesn't hit the earth, for one
07:16:29 <monqy> mirrors around the sun, get all of that energy to earth
07:17:58 <pikhq_> Sgeo: Currently, essentially all of it.
07:18:06 <fizzie> We could use a bit more of it up here, it was below the freezing point of water this morning again.
07:18:52 <Sgeo> pikhq_, well, not literally all of it. Solar panels don't cause significant negative effects, do they? Although, if much of the Earth's surface was covered in them, what would happen?
07:18:59 <ais523> Sgeo: we probably need slightly less than currently hits the Earth
07:19:16 <ais523> also, conservation of energy: the energy captured by solar panels eventually ends up dissipating as heat anyway
07:19:27 <pikhq_> The Earth is fairly small, and the Sun radiates equally in all directions.
07:19:43 <fizzie> ais523: They do increase Earth's albedo, I think.
07:19:53 <ais523> well it depends on where you install them
07:20:04 <ais523> Sgeo: also, another way to think of it: imagine that the Earth is mostly covered in grass
07:20:18 <fizzie> ais523: At least I'd sort of assume that solar panels don't reflect very much of (direct) sunlight; it sounds like it'd be slightly counterproductive.
07:21:02 <Sgeo> ais523, we use that energy for survival, kind of... well, animals we eat eat grass. What would happen if there was no grass, we killed all the grass and replaced with solar panels?
07:21:05 <ais523> they do actually reflect quite a lot at the moment
07:21:07 <Sgeo> Ecologically, I mean.
07:21:08 <ais523> because they aren't very efficient
07:21:22 <ais523> I think 33% efficient solar panels were invented last month, and they're prohibitively expensive to manufacture
07:21:44 <ais523> what would be neat would be solar panels that were transparent, i.e. they transmitted most of the energy they didn't convert to electricity
07:21:54 <ais523> that way if you needed to capture more light in a small area, you could stack them
07:22:10 <Bike> Sgeo: most autotrophs are solar. the few exceptions are things that rely on geothermal vents and chemosynthesis, not exactly enough to keep humanity alive
07:22:14 <ais523> Sgeo: we'd pretty much need to move to hydroponics to grow food to eat
07:22:32 <pikhq_> We'd have an easier time of it if we knew how to get fusion working.
07:22:35 <ais523> we could do without animals, it's possible to live on plant matter and dietary supplements alone
07:22:44 <ais523> but doing without plants as well is basically impossible
07:22:47 <ais523> (/other/ animals, I mean)
07:22:51 <ais523> we wouldn't want to, though
07:24:47 <fizzie> ais523: I suppose it's partly (mostly?) because the parts that do convert to electricity are reasonably picky about wavelengths, while the Sun's reasonably blackbodyish.
07:25:44 <fizzie> Still, 33% efficiency is far better than what grass manages.
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08:02:34 <fizzie> Uh... this is the famous W|A being clever: I ask for "distance from earth to moon / speed of light", and the main answer is "378 313 km/c (kilometers per speed of light in vacuum)" -- the best unit. (Okay, so the "unit conversions" list has the "1.262 seconds" result too, but still.)
08:07:25 <Jafet> Why doesn't it use planck units
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08:21:04 <coppro> http://homestuck.bandcamp.com/album/symphony-impossible-to-play
08:21:09 <coppro> so the fourth piece is really good
08:21:36 <coppro> except the arranger really doesn't like triplets for some reason :(
08:21:53 <coppro> at least, in the trumpet part
08:22:01 <coppro> gets them right in the piccolo
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09:02:19 <Deewiant> http://javadoc.bugaco.com/com/sun/java/swing/plaf/nimbus/InternalFrameInternalFrameTitlePaneInternalFrameTitlePaneMaximizeButtonPainter.html
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09:09:59 <shachaf> `addquote <Jafet> I wonder if Red Alert 4 will use MMIX
09:10:10 <HackEgo> 865) <Jafet> I wonder if Red Alert 4 will use MMIX
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12:13:22 <ais523> so, I came to a sudden realisation last sleep period
12:13:28 <ais523> brainfuck is a concatenative language
12:13:39 <ais523> it's not a very typical or idiomatic concatenative language, but it is one
12:14:21 <shachaf> Is C also a concatenative language?
12:14:28 <ais523> someone please agree with me or refute me, because this has implications
12:14:43 <ais523> shachaf: no, you can't separate a function from its arguments in a concatenative way
12:15:05 <shachaf> OK, the contents of one C function?
12:15:12 <Slereah_> Concatenation of two BF programs is also a valid BF program
12:15:19 <ais523> shachaf: I meant in a function call
12:15:38 <ais523> Slereah_: yeah, and if you see BF programs as functions (as in Pure BF), concatenating them = function composition
12:15:58 <ais523> this means that my monads in BF idea may not be too far from the mark after all
12:16:20 <ais523> the problem is that BF does not have any sort of operation on code segments
12:16:24 <ais523> apart from repeating them
12:16:31 <ais523> so you need a metalanguage to describe program transformations
12:16:50 <ais523> so I guess it's more like saying that you can create monad-like structures that compile to BF
12:16:52 <ais523> and operate on BF code
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16:16:15 <kmc> https://blogs.oracle.com/ksplice/entry/introducing_redpatch
16:18:06 <kmc> a while back, Red Hat stopped releasing source for their kernels in an easily digested form -- instead they give just one giant .patch file
16:19:10 <kmc> the Ksplice team (independently, and then at Oracle) has to reverse-engineer the individual patches
16:19:14 <kmc> and now they are publishing their work
16:19:37 <kmc> i'm sure the Internet will somehow conclude that Oracle is being evil here and Red Hat is the victim
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16:39:29 <atriq> KALLISTI, you look louder than usual
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17:05:38 <elliott> http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Esolang:Community_portal&diff=next&oldid=34681
17:05:48 <elliott> this edit is sort of inaccurate...
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17:10:46 <elliott> well the part where it implies the community portal should be used for discussions of esolangs in general
17:10:51 <elliott> when in actual fact it is only for discussion of the wiki
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17:16:47 <atriq> And post a message on (the person who made the edit)'s talk page?
17:17:10 <elliott> the problem is if you look at the community portal there is non-wiki related stuff on there already :P
17:25:06 <Arc_Koen> how about correcting it to "you can use [[User_talk:Theguywhomadethateditinthefirstplace|the talk page]] for discussions about esolangs in general."
17:26:54 <elliott> somehow i think that would be ever so slightly rude
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18:24:52 <Arc_Koen> if only there wasn't this thing about main characters not being able to die
18:25:04 <Arc_Koen> stargate would have soooooo much more suspense and drama
18:25:40 <Arc_Koen> like that episode where they found cassandra, the girl with a nuclear bomb in her belly
18:26:08 <Arc_Koen> and at some point major carter decides to stay with her till the end
18:26:19 <atriq> Arc_Koen, main characters not allowed to die? As a Homestuck fan, I smile
18:26:26 <Bike> yeah, that was a sad episode
18:26:29 <atriq> The main character of Homestuck has died... 3 times?
18:26:32 <Bike> and then it didn't go off. boring.
18:26:55 <Arc_Koen> Bike: well since major carter decided to stay and we know she can't die
18:27:09 <Arc_Koen> that kind of defused any emotion there could have been
18:27:11 <Jafet> The deus ex americana of television shows
18:27:13 <Bike> atriq: multiple deaths has about the same dramatic effect as none.
18:28:05 <Arc_Koen> that's why movies are so much better
18:28:09 <atriq> Homestuck seems to be an excersize in bringing characters back to life in various ways
18:28:13 <atriq> ANd now I will go eat
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18:28:21 <Arc_Koen> at least there are no "next episodes" so everybody can die
18:28:37 <Arc_Koen> james bond kind of dies four or five times in skyfall
18:28:40 <Jafet> Movies are not immune from deus ex americana
18:29:04 <Arc_Koen> I think even jean grey from x-men was never able to die so many times in a single story
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18:46:41 <Arc_Koen> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Loose_Circular_Brainfuck_(LCBF) says it's turing-complete
18:46:57 <Arc_Koen> but the only significant difference with brainfuck is that its tape is circular
18:47:04 <Arc_Koen> which kind of suppose it's bounded
18:48:25 <ion> I posted a popping (dance) video to a subreddit about popping pimples. Waiting for the downvotes. :-P http://www.reddit.com/r/popping/comments/12xbil/incredible_popping/
18:51:26 <fizzie> Arc_Koen: It could be a circular yet sometimes (e.g. when moving >, but not when moving <) growing; but indeed it seems to have a fixed size.
18:52:01 <atriq> ion, that's a subreddit that exists!?
18:52:39 <fizzie> Arc_Koen: The cells of the Python implementation seem to be bignums, though.
18:52:59 <Arc_Koen> something like "if current cell is rightmost, > goes to leftmost cell; if current cell is leftmost, < creates (and go to) a new cell to the left of the current cell"?
18:53:14 <fizzie> Er, assuming Python numbers are that. I think they are. They do that L thing when they go past regular integers.
18:54:06 <fizzie> I was thinking the other way around, but something like that, yes.
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19:46:17 <Vorpal> Okay this is interesting. It is almost like Google don't want me to use youtube. Now they went one step further than the usual "front page not properly updated for days with my subscriptions"-shit, which can be due to flawed caching or something. This time I got unsubscribe to about half the channels I'm subscribing to. Sorry, what?
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19:56:23 <Arc_Koen> elliott: what are the conditions to be met before a new category can be created? for instance, would it be ok if I created http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang_talk:Categorization#Proposed_category:_Instruction-rewriting ?
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19:56:55 <elliott> i don't think there really are any criteria really :P
19:57:10 <elliott> it seems there's some disagreement about what it should be called?
19:57:43 <Arc_Koen> well, "Self-redefining" seems fine from what I understand
19:58:10 <Arc_Koen> AnotherTest argued "Instruction-redefining" was not 'open' enough, and I agree
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20:07:45 <Arc_Koen> urrrrh I hate it when titles are so explicit
20:08:21 <Arc_Koen> in my opinion a good title should make sense *after* you've watched the thing, not be a sumary of what happens
20:10:09 <kmc> The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down
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21:18:18 <Sgeo> Who knows how long this will last :/
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21:23:00 <kmc> welcome back
21:23:03 <kmc> (why did you leave?)
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21:24:31 <Sgeo> My Internet access cut out
21:26:02 <atriq> zzo38, lens is making parts of Prelude.Generalize not seem so great
21:26:06 <atriq> For instance, Part1 etc
21:30:00 <atriq> I'm... not sure what you can do with this
21:33:02 <atriq> But Prelude.Generalize.Part1 is the same-but-worse as Control.Lens.Tuple.Field1 etc
21:33:26 <zzo38> O, well it wasn't there before I think
21:33:48 <atriq> Nah, Prelude.Generalize predates Control.Lens by a long way
21:45:49 <atriq> elliott, have you made any headway with @ in the last year?
21:49:10 <Sgeo> I literally just restarted my mouse.
21:49:17 <atriq> Will you in the next year?
21:49:36 <Sgeo> It was acting like I was holding down the mouse button. Restarting it fixed it.
21:50:23 -!- carado has joined.
21:50:27 <Sgeo> And by restarting, I mean turning it off and on again.
21:51:38 <Sgeo> `welcome carado
21:51:44 <HackEgo> carado: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:52:42 <carado> oh, thanks for the welcome !
21:53:09 <atriq> Does anyone use #esoteric-minecraft anymore?
21:55:59 <zzo38> carado: It is common procedure to welcome everyone (including you, of course)
21:59:19 <fizzie> atriq: It was just a moment ago (September 4th) that somebody spoke there. (That was PH wondering when was the last time anyone spoke; for the record, that was PH saying "hello" on August 5th.)
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22:00:03 <impomatic> zzo38: is your Forth adventure system still online somewhere?
22:01:55 <Vorpal> hm did the N64 have PCM audio or did it synthesise it?
22:02:10 <kmc> i don't understand that dichotomy
22:02:59 <Vorpal> kmc, I mean, did it synthesise it as SNES did (though more advanced obviously), or did it basically use pre-recorded audio data?
22:11:10 <fizzie> I don't think it has dedicated hardware sound-synthesis-only chips; but that's not to say all ROMs would use just pre-recorded PCM, apparently the DSPish chip that does graphics geometry things generally also does the actual audio synthesis, based on what data it gets from the MIPS core. (Wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo's dev tools had stock microcode for that chip; reportedly that's the ...
22:11:16 <fizzie> ... case for the ARM7 side of the DS.)
22:14:16 <Phantom_Hoover> "2011...the acedemic year of death and sneaky hijinks."
22:14:31 <Phantom_Hoover> I wonder if they're really this sloppy or if it's just a front.
22:16:12 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/CITg -- sounds very typical.
22:16:42 <atriq> Phantom_Hoover, there is a university campus game called Assassins or some such
22:17:00 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: is your university MIT?
22:17:19 <kmc> MIT's is a rather elaborate live action roleplaying society
22:17:20 <kmc> http://web.mit.edu/assassin/www/
22:20:17 <kmc> at my school we had an assassination game which was all about leaving traps
22:20:25 <Vorpal> kmc, what sort of traps?
22:20:40 <kmc> to get a kill, the target had to trigger some kind of noise or flashing light or other prominent indicator placed by you
22:20:47 <kmc> but triggered by them
22:20:54 <kmc> people got pretty intense about defending themselves
22:21:02 <kmc> had lackeys open doors for them, push on chairs before they sat down
22:21:11 <kmc> some people put razor wire in the ceilings above their rooms to prevent people breaking in
22:21:29 <Vorpal> you are making this up right?
22:21:33 <atriq> That sounds... crazy
22:21:50 <kmc> not making it up
22:22:17 <kmc> one time i got a kill by hiding a cellphone in someone's room, then setting up a buddy pounce in Pidgin which would send a text to that phone when the target logged in to AIM
22:22:31 <kmc> this was deemed to count as them triggering the trap, even though it had to go through my computer
22:22:51 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: yeah, there was a whole 'hyperspace' area accessible above the ceiling, which you could crawl around in
22:22:54 <kmc> was pretty cool
22:22:55 <atriq> Did you get your phone back
22:23:12 <kmc> there was 60 years of accumulated scavenged lab equipment hidden up there
22:23:13 <Vorpal> <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: yeah, there was a whole 'hyperspace' area accessible above the ceiling, which you could crawl around in <-- uh...?
22:23:20 <kmc> improvised local networks put in by the students in the 80's
22:23:35 <Vorpal> kmc, which university was this?
22:23:40 <kmc> they actually put in a homebrew phone / PBX / music sharing service in the 60's, before the college officially wired the dorms for phone
22:23:58 <kmc> though when I played alley assassins, we were actually living in the horrible temporary trailer park housing
22:24:13 <fizzie> Vorpal: I don't *know*, but I wouldn't be surprised if the stock SGI microcode would support at least mixing K channels of (raw or compressed-with-some-codec) PCM (with DMA transfers), but possibly not much more software-synthesizy things than that.
22:24:16 <kmc> see also http://kheafield.com/personal/kludgenet/photos/
22:26:35 <kmc> we also spent evenings breaking into academic buildings and disassembling the locks on doors in order to construct home-made master keys
22:26:46 <kmc> and exploring the steam tunnels of course
22:26:53 <fizzie> The German Caltech would have even their "kludgenet" done with MILITARY PRECISION.
22:27:20 * impomatic explored steam tunnels under the school once.
22:28:37 <kmc> there was a *lot* of emo poetry written on the walls down there
22:29:26 <kmc> yeah, they were full of steam pipes
22:29:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Maybe there was a single, small group of emo poets that decided it was the darkest place to pour out their soul.
22:29:37 <kmc> and water pipes and fiber optic cables etc
22:29:43 <kmc> and boxes that say "DANGER 110,000 VOLTS"
22:29:46 <kmc> all covered in asbestos
22:30:05 <kmc> it's more efficient to generate it centrally and use it to heat every building on campus
22:30:08 <atriq> Phantom_Hoover, to fuel the rotor fan
22:30:15 <kmc> a lot of colleges and corporate campuses do this
22:30:24 <kmc> in fact some cities like New York have city-wide steam heat distribution
22:30:49 <atriq> I think my school does?
22:30:55 <atriq> In the older building, anyway
22:31:14 <atriq> The older building used to be a hotel
22:32:01 <atriq> Anyway, my school is just a high school and hence lame compared to your grand universities
22:32:27 <Phantom_Hoover> I've been to exactly one school that wasn't built in the 19th century so central heating is the only heating I know
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22:34:49 <fizzie> I think a very clear majority of apartment buildings (don't know about standalone houses; some of those too) in cities in Finland tend to be part of the district heating network, though I don't know whether the big pipes carry steam or water; certainly the building-internal heating pipes are just warm water.
22:35:19 <impomatic> Do emos group? I thought they kept themselves to themselves...
22:36:34 <Phantom_Hoover> who would they pour the inner septic tank of their soul onto
22:37:54 <kmc> http://achewood.com/?date=06282004
22:39:29 <fizzie> Also I've heard some rumours that the Otaniemi student housing also had some... creative network installations way back in the dark ages; but they were all professional (100base-t inside walls for intra-building, 1000base-sx/lx/?x inter-building backbone) when I lived there.
22:41:06 <fizzie> "The 1 Gbps upgrade project, which will eventually provide 1 Gbps access connectivity to all users and 10 Gbps uplinks to access switches, started in July 2010 from Servinkuja 1." Oh, they've upgraded since then, too.
22:42:42 <fizzie> It's "only" tied to the Interweb through 2x10G connections via FUnet, so it's not like they could provide a real gigabit for everyone. But at least sharing of studying materials (that's what they used to call it) inside the campus will be nice and fast.
22:45:24 <fizzie> E.g. there were quite a few large corpora of instructional videos of human anatomy shared in the local network back when I lived there. (Slightly curious since the university doesn't have a medical school.)
22:49:20 <kmc> would you say this was the work of corporoaphiles
22:55:59 <fizzie> It could be; some of the corpora were really quite large! (By the standards of the day, anyway; terabytes were still quite impressive numbers at least on the consumer side of the fence.)
22:56:05 <kmc> seriously though, house fileservers *did* have lots of pirated copies of textbooks for important classes
22:56:22 <kmc> which was super useful
22:57:17 <fizzie> That much is true. The search engines had a "book" search category that matched a couple of likely extensions.
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23:00:44 <kmc> the house I was in currently has a 40? TB file server, but it recently melted
23:00:50 <kmc> actually more like caught fire
23:00:58 <kmc> http://wsyntax.com/cs/killer-norco-case/
23:02:12 <kmc> i have 25 TB at home in a much simpler configuration, but not really any higher quality hardware, which has me worried
23:02:39 <kmc> also i don't have ECC RAM so probably some of that 25 TB has random bits flipped
23:02:46 <kmc> it occurred to me that I ought to stop gzipping my backups for this reason
23:02:55 <kmc> or at least, reed-solomon-encode them after i gzip them
23:03:04 <atriq> This is the future
23:03:20 <atriq> kmc, how much does a can of Pepsi cost?
23:05:18 <kmc> i don't know
23:05:21 <kmc> is that a trick question?
23:05:28 <kmc> soda is about $1 no matter how much you buy
23:05:39 <atriq> Wow, a whole dollar?
23:05:48 <atriq> That's like 100 times the number of dollars I have!
23:06:50 <atriq> fizzie, help, I'm in the future
23:07:04 <atriq> I'm far enough into the future that 40TB is feasible
23:07:14 <fizzie> I think you can fix that with time travel.
23:07:22 <atriq> I lost my time machine!
23:08:58 <fizzie> $ df -h|egrep 'Filesys|lustre'
23:08:59 <fizzie> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
23:08:59 <fizzie> lustre-nfs:/triton/ics 427T 123T 300T 29% /triton/ics
23:09:03 <fizzie> (Okay, that's not on a student budget.)
23:09:38 <kmc> how many physical drives and servers is that
23:10:08 <fizzie> I don't really know; it's some kind of a SAN delivered by a company.
23:11:10 <fizzie> It also manages somehow to be terribly slow when it comes to some tens of thousands of small files. According to docs, it's really optimilized for very large files.
23:12:14 <atriq> When (if) I've got a decent job, in the far off future, imagine how much hard drive I can have!
23:12:27 <fizzie> By "really slow" I mean it took like two hours just to stat(2) 20k files in order to prune a file list; reading through a directory is fast enough, but MATLAB's dir function stats every file to find the size.
23:12:33 <Sgeo_> "If your license plate ends with an even number or 0, you fill up on even days"
23:12:42 <Bike> so what sort of things do you have in 123 terabytes?
23:13:36 <elliott> <fizzie> It also manages somehow to be terribly slow when it comes to some tens of thousands of small files. According to docs, it's really optimilized for very large files.
23:13:50 <atriq> According to Moore's law, in 6 years I'll have 4 terabytes!
23:13:51 <elliott> fizzie: make a filesystem optimised for small files as a file
23:14:21 <fizzie> Bike: "Scientific data", I suppose. It's a cluster shared by the CS, physics, chemistry and such folks. I would assume it mostly runs simulations.
23:14:22 <pikhq_> Bike: 123 terabytes? Clearly, store Blurays raw.
23:14:40 <Bike> of course, of course
23:16:20 <atriq> Saying that, I've got a laptop with 250 GB, an external with 130 GB, an external with 1 TB, and a computer from 2006 and one from 2001 so god knows how much hard drive they have
23:16:25 <fizzie> Just to pick a random job, someone's running "htseq.gencode_Sample_4.sh". I suspect some of the bio-computing folks.
23:16:26 <atriq> This adds up to about 2 TB
23:16:33 <atriq> I feel insignificant
23:17:01 <Bike> you could get a couple terabytes of bioinformatics data from the 'net to make yourself feel sciency
23:18:05 <fizzie> atriq: The cluster has two (I think) nodes with 1 TB of RAM each, in the "hugemem" queue, for applications that need reasonable amounts of RAM.
23:19:06 <atriq> fizzie, across my house there is just over 2 TB of hard drive space. RAM, I've got no idea, about 20 GB, I think
23:19:14 <atriq> Am I living in the past?
23:19:25 <Bike> would you like some lotto numbers?
23:20:19 <fizzie> I don't have much more than maybe a total of 5-6 TB disk at home either.
23:20:24 <kmc> to be fair, nearly anything is terribly slow with lots of small files
23:20:51 <atriq> My place of work probably has less RAM and hard drive than this computer
23:20:53 <kmc> i only have 60 GB disk and 3 GB RAM in my laptop
23:20:56 <fizzie> kmc: Not so slow that it takes *hours* with just 20k files.
23:20:58 <atriq> But that's a charity shop
23:20:58 <kmc> though i just ordered one with a bit more
23:21:03 <kmc> fizzie: ok, that's bad
23:21:31 <kmc> at ksplice we had the need to frequently generate chroots off some fixed template, do something with them, and then throw out the changes
23:21:42 <kmc> initially we used a fancy unioning filesystem
23:21:56 <kmc> but it was much faster to simply store the chroots as .tar.gz, decompress them to a ram disk, and then delete them
23:22:07 <kmc> because that way the only disk IO is a big sequential read
23:24:14 <kmc> http://wondermark.com/884/
23:24:47 <fizzie> Lustre has some kind of a complicated split-to-servers scheme, but it apparently makes initially starting an access on file a slow thing; once it's open, it can read bytes very fast. Sadly, our tools aren't really written with that in mind.
23:25:08 <elliott> kmc: is your startup still classified
23:25:12 <kmc> not exactly
23:25:28 <kmc> we don't have, like, a public page saying what we do
23:25:32 <kmc> but we've been telling various people
23:25:41 <kmc> it's a text chat tool for businesses
23:25:48 <kmc> so in one sense, just glorified IRC in the browser
23:25:53 <kmc> but it has a different user experience from IRC
23:25:59 <elliott> aw i was hoping for something at least 10x more exciting than that
23:26:08 <kmc> there you have it
23:26:14 <atriq> elliott, do you want to do something more exciting, with me?
23:26:21 <fizzie> I heard everyone uses ninchat for that now.
23:26:22 <elliott> like you were working on bombs that exploded into kittens or something
23:26:29 <elliott> atriq: what are we talking here exactly
23:26:29 <atriq> We can make a text chat tool for the MILITARY!
23:26:55 <fizzie> (I haven't heard of anyone in particular actually using ninchat.)
23:28:04 <kmc> huh never heard of ninchat until now
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23:28:58 <elliott> good to know kmc knows his competitors
23:30:01 <kmc> so yeah, it is a pretty different company and product from ksplice
23:30:04 <kmc> but mostly the same people
23:30:06 <kmc> which is interesting
23:30:23 <kmc> what do you mean
23:30:59 <shachaf> Well, I guess I don't actually know most ksplice people.
23:31:36 <kmc> that's okay, i don't know most non-ksplice people
23:32:59 <kmc> the people from "ksplice classic" who are still at oracle are andersk and spang
23:33:05 <kmc> nelhage left but went to stripe
23:33:15 <kmc> he has already implemented at least one EBCDIC-based financial systems protocol
23:34:02 <kmc> beats shoveling coal
23:34:52 <kmc> programmers are like the only people in america who aren't unemployed
23:35:07 <kmc> in fact we are still in inexplicably high demand
23:35:19 <elliott> well that bubble is still going on isn't it
23:35:45 <kmc> plenty of jobs working for disruptive startups who are marketing services for other disruptive startups who are eventually going to disrupt each other all the way to bankruptcy auction
23:36:02 <kmc> elliott: look, if you haven't started a company by the age of 14, you're a failure and should kill yourself
23:36:08 <kmc> paul graham is just telling it like it is
23:37:19 <kmc> YC came to MIT and gave a talk that was like "fuck MIT! drop out and do a startup" and then MIT did a talk that was like "fuck YC, we have our own incubator nobody has ever heard of!"
23:38:07 <elliott> everybody loves capitalism
23:38:08 <kmc> thankfully i did not attend either
23:39:19 <kmc> it's so weird that software startup culture is obsesseed with funding
23:39:28 <kmc> since it's basically the least capital-intensive industry that could possibly exist
23:39:51 <kmc> but i guess getting a fat sack of cash is a nice way to demonstrate your worth that's easier than making a product people want or will pay money for
23:40:19 <elliott> well if you have money you don't need a business model any more
23:41:58 <Bike> I thought getting lots of funding was how it worked during the dotcom bubble too.
23:43:01 <elliott> i would like to go back to the days where every company ended in .com
23:43:09 <elliott> y combinator should be called startup.com
23:43:19 <atriq> British East India Company.com
23:43:28 <KALLISTI> atriq: YES I AM TRAPPED IN FORTRAN HELP
23:43:46 <elliott> atriq: shouldn't that just be britisheastindia.com
23:43:53 <atriq> KALLISTI, if you look to your left you should see a door labelled "COBOL".
23:44:26 <Bike> http://www.theeastindiacompany.com/ So...
23:45:21 <elliott> well they just need to be better at branding clearly
23:45:31 <elliott> what does the east india company even do now
23:45:46 <zzo38> What I do want to do is making up a open source FPGA and sell it, and I want to make sure the OpenCores stuff will run on there at good enough speed without wasting too much energy.
23:45:46 <Bike> food, apparently
23:46:01 <Bike> no word on paramilitaries
23:46:39 <elliott> "When you hear our name you will probably already have a sense of who we are. Deep within the world’s sub-consciousness is an awareness of The East India Company, powerful pictures of who we are. You’ll feel something for us; you’ll have a connection to us, even if you don’t know us."
23:46:46 <elliott> that is pretty much the most sinister opening ever
23:46:59 <Bike> Yeah, I'm not entirely sure if it's satire.
23:47:07 <zzo38> Actually I don't know anything about them; they are wrong.
23:47:15 <Bike> I got the Ullman paper.
23:47:46 <elliott> "It’s not a new beginning,
23:47:46 <elliott> It’s a connection to heritage
23:47:46 <elliott> It’s a continuation of a long tradition
23:47:46 <elliott> It’s always been in our time
23:47:55 <elliott> kind of freaked out by the east india company now
23:47:58 <Bike> But it turns out that being completely naïve about graph theory makes it hard to write programs for it.
23:48:19 <elliott> well wikipedia claims the east india company no longer exists
23:48:22 <elliott> and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company_(disambiguation) is no help
23:50:29 <Bike> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/883e56f6-9d90-11df-a37c-00144feab49a.html#axzz2BlxbIVOh
23:51:37 <kmc> shachaf: KeithW just reminded me of one of the less obvious advantages of Mosh
23:51:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, you should definitely familiarise yourself with adjacency matrices if you haven't already.
23:51:50 <kmc> which is that, an attacker can terminate a SSH connection by sending a single RST packet
23:51:56 <kmc> but Mosh's transport layer is encrypted-authenticated
23:52:34 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: well I know what those are at least. I just napped through a lot of that part of discrete maths, and haven't written ay actual programs for this stuff before.
23:52:57 <shachaf> kmc: I think we've talked about that advantage of Mosh before.
23:53:04 <shachaf> Or at least that disadvantage of SSH.
23:54:25 * shachaf doesn't know how the log commands work.
23:54:59 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18986
23:56:23 <shachaf> 2012-09-01.txt:22:51:50: <shachaf> kmc: "For example, an attacker can abort an SSH connection or an HTTPS connection by forging a single TCP Reset packet."
23:56:48 <shachaf> Hah, that's a quote from curvecp.org