←2012-11-24 2012-11-25 2012-11-26→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:20:08 <Phantom_Hoover> ohhhhhshit
00:20:24 <Phantom_Hoover> The mayor has gone berserk, and she's friends with half the fortress.
00:21:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Great, we've now got even more miserable dorfs than just after the 3 murders.
00:23:53 <Phantom_Hoover> I have a feeling the entire fortress is hanging by a thread.
00:25:32 <oerjan> you should find that damocles dorf and ask him
00:26:02 <Phantom_Hoover> A butcher went berserk; I think this is it.
00:29:59 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, see, that is what happens when you put the dwarf named after me in peril
00:30:36 <Phantom_Hoover> your life is worth nothing next to a great strand extractor!
00:31:51 <Vorpal> hm when were vampires added?
00:32:04 <atriq> May, I think
00:32:05 <Vorpal> I don't remember seeing them, and I haven't played for several months by now
00:32:10 <Vorpal> that explains it
00:34:28 <Vorpal> atriq, so how do they work when it comes to strand extractors?
00:34:52 <atriq> I've never stuck with a fortress long enough to encounter one
00:36:10 <Phantom_Hoover> this is horrible
00:38:26 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, if I can't stem this tantrum spiral, I can at least make sure I have enough coffins to bury everyone in the fort!
00:43:05 <zzo38> Need you to bury everyone in the fort?
00:44:18 <zzo38> And if so, are you sure you require coffins to do so?
00:46:07 <Phantom_Hoover> well if they all die, yes
00:46:21 <Phantom_Hoover> to prevent miasma and unhappy thoughts from friends and relatives
00:46:31 <Phantom_Hoover> although by this point i'm not sure the latter will help at all
00:46:51 <Phantom_Hoover> otoh: the number of miserable dorfs has fallen somewhat!
00:47:38 <oerjan> fallen off this mortal coil
00:48:30 <Phantom_Hoover> shit
00:48:37 <Phantom_Hoover> someone destroyed the bridge to the farms
00:48:41 <Phantom_Hoover> good thing i caught that
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01:02:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, the good news is that the military can keep the place defended until the food runs out, which given current trends I would extrapolate to be until... forever.
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01:17:56 <Phantom_Hoover> monqy has ded :(
01:18:03 <monqy> hi
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01:45:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Population's now down to 50.
01:45:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Most of that is insane, I suspect.
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01:50:24 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan is *still* sane and valiantly tending to the wounded, despite having been miserable for most of this mess.
01:52:22 <shachaf> oerjan is sane?
01:56:49 <oerjan> lies and slander!
02:13:17 <Phantom_Hoover> I can't help but laugh.
02:13:28 <Phantom_Hoover> The vampire strand extractor who started all this just died...
02:13:39 <Phantom_Hoover> When a rock was accidentally dropped on her head.
02:17:24 <Sgeo__> Phantom_Hoover, am I alive?
02:17:31 <Phantom_Hoover> No.
02:25:12 <kmc> fileserver is being described as "99.91% up"
02:25:31 <kmc> much improved from before anyway
02:26:06 <Phantom_Hoover> I think the only lesson I can really take away from this experience is "don't fuck around with vampires".
02:26:37 <shachaf> filserver is 0.09% down. netcraft confirms it
02:26:52 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: that's what took down the fileserver too
02:27:06 <kmc> if by "vampires" you mean "poorly designed SATA hot-swap power electronics"
02:27:07 <oerjan> `quote <Phantom_Hoover> I think the only lesson I can really take away from this experience is "don't fuck around with vampires".
02:27:12 <oerjan> oops
02:27:15 <oerjan> `addquote <Phantom_Hoover> I think the only lesson I can really take away from this experience is "don't fuck around with vampires".
02:27:21 <HackEgo> No output.
02:27:41 <HackEgo> 855) <Phantom_Hoover> I think the only lesson I can really take away from this experience is "don't fuck around with vampires".
02:29:54 <Phantom_Hoover> uuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh
02:30:09 <oerjan> PROBLEM?
02:30:14 <Phantom_Hoover> there was a segfault
02:31:35 <Phantom_Hoover> ugh
02:31:39 <Phantom_Hoover> reset everything
02:31:42 <Phantom_Hoover> waaaaaaaay back
02:33:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Well I suppose I know not to fuck around with the vampire this time.
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03:14:47 <nooga> meh
03:14:51 <nooga> no elliott
03:39:10 <zzo38> I made "ares, aloop phasorloop xcps, [iphs], [iamp], [iloopstart], [iloopend]", where ares is a saw wave and aloop is 1 initially and becomes 0 after it loops once.
03:41:43 <zzo38> It could be used to index a table for looped sample playback, if you need something more complicated than loscil and so on.
03:44:28 <zzo38> This is similar to lphasor but there are some differences, such as the aloop output.
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05:09:31 <shachaf> kmc: help
05:09:32 <shachaf> <Multi_key> <underscore> <U2260> : "≢" U2262 # _ ≠ NOT IDENTICAL TO
05:09:40 <shachaf> How do I type ≠?
05:13:56 <pikhq_> Compose / =
05:14:27 <shachaf> pikhq_: That's not what I mean.
05:14:31 <pikhq_> 'Course, doesn't help with ≢
05:14:34 <shachaf> How do I type ≢?
05:14:42 <pikhq_> No idea.
05:15:16 <quintopia>
05:19:18 <kmc>
05:31:22 <quintopia> … 2u2
06:01:44 <zzo38> What is Japanese time zone?
06:02:23 <Bike> +9, I think?
06:04:33 <zzo38> OK, thanks
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06:11:31 <kmc> splat
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06:38:29 <Sgeo__> Fiora potato
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06:43:07 <shachaf> potato
06:43:23 <Fiora> the last page of the update is wonderful
06:52:58 <Gregor> What the HELL? I'm ssh'd into my old phone, hacking Debian onto it, and it just rebooted, judging by the screen… except that I'm still ssh'd into it. And it's still… doing stuff. Over ssh.
06:53:46 <Sgeo__> According to one random person on #clojure, I am able to "think really hard"
06:54:01 <Sgeo__> And am thus being solicited by this random person for thoughts on a proposal on a mailing list
06:58:03 <coppro> haha
06:58:23 <coppro> potato?
06:59:51 <Sgeo__> I think it has been used to mean "UPDATE!" in pound-MSPA
07:00:39 <coppro> i see
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07:03:28 <coppro> I especially like that you get volume control back after the bar is removed
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09:34:00 <shachaf> zomg http://ehird.blogspot.com/
09:35:08 <monqy> @ask elliott 01:34:00 <shachaf> zomg http://ehird.blogspot.com/
09:35:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
09:35:23 <shachaf> @tell elliott is that the real ehird
09:35:23 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
09:37:03 <shachaf> monqy: why did you ask elliott that
09:37:27 <monqy> "he deserves to know"
09:37:39 <monqy> 2010 is a scary place
09:37:49 <monqy> especially in january 05, yikes
09:38:12 <shachaf> monqy: "i was hoping to keep it between you and me"
09:38:22 <shachaf> "and whoever is in the channel or reads the logs"
09:39:04 <shachaf> monqy: You should learn lens!
09:39:10 <shachaf> And then help me figure out my lens problems.
09:41:06 <fizzie> logs/freenode/#esoteric/2010-01.log:[2010-01-06 00:31:45] <ehird> everyone should preemptively add http://ehird.blogspot.com/ to their feed readers because i am awesome
09:41:36 <shachaf> @ask elliott 01:41 <fizzie> logs/freenode/#esoteric/2010-01.log:[2010-01-06 00:31:45] <ehird> everyone should preemptively add http://ehird.blogspot.com/ to their feed readers because i am awesome
09:41:36 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
09:41:50 <monqy> wow you beat me to it !
09:43:25 <shachaf> "sorry"
09:43:28 <shachaf> @unask
09:43:28 <lambdabot> Plugin `tell' failed with: Prelude.head: empty list
09:44:23 <monqy> :0
09:45:23 <oklopol> so ielliott's blog seems a bit singleton.
09:45:30 <oklopol> *elliott's
09:46:34 <shachaf> indexed elliott
09:59:06 <shachaf> monqy: Did you learn lens yet?
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10:04:50 <atriq> "You got torn about by four horses, which did rather discourage people"
10:11:08 <monqy> shachaf: no
11:15:51 <shachaf> monqy: no
11:16:07 <monqy> but I really haven't!
11:16:21 <shachaf> Haven't what?
11:16:27 <monqy> : (
11:16:35 <shachaf> help
11:16:39 <shachaf> What haven't you done!
11:17:11 <monqy> : |
11:18:44 <shachaf> · ⎜
11:18:47 <shachaf> — ⎜
11:18:50 <shachaf> · ⎜
11:18:59 <monqy> yes thats me.
11:19:08 <monqy> "picture perfect"
11:19:09 <shachaf> monqy: when did you grow a nose
11:22:06 <FreeFull> | |
11:22:09 <FreeFull> _____
11:22:27 <shachaf> —————
11:22:28 <shachaf> —————
11:22:28 <shachaf> —————
11:22:29 <shachaf> —————
11:22:30 <shachaf> —————
11:22:47 <shachaf> ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
11:22:54 <shachaf> ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
11:23:00 <shachaf> ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
11:23:06 <shachaf> ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
11:23:12 <shachaf> ████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
11:23:18 <shachaf> hdlp
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11:47:32 <ion> :─┐
11:47:33 <ion> )─┘
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11:49:34 <shachaf> ion: Are there any parts of lens left for you to figure out yet?
11:50:06 <Phantom_Hoover> so what is this lens thing
11:50:28 <atriq> Phantom_Hoover, a library for Haskell obfuscation
11:51:00 <Phantom_Hoover> oh
11:51:01 <Phantom_Hoover> how
11:51:56 <atriq> type Lens s t a b = Functor f => (a -> f b) -> s -> f t
11:52:15 <atriq> If the Functor is Identity, you've got a setter
11:52:29 <atriq> If the Functor is Const r, you've got a Getter
11:52:48 <ion> shachaf: I’m not sure. I haven’t looked through all of it yet.
11:52:56 <shachaf> atriq: What if it's a Context a b t?
11:53:09 <shachaf> "excuse me"
11:53:11 <shachaf> atriq: What if it's a Context a b?
11:53:15 <atriq> Then you have a lens, I believe
11:53:33 <atriq> You're the second biggest contributor to this library, you should know
11:53:51 <shachaf> I am?
11:54:02 <shachaf> Oh, that's just nonsense commits.
11:54:59 <shachaf> Functor---->Apply
11:54:59 <shachaf> | |
11:54:59 <shachaf> v v
11:54:59 <shachaf> Pointed---->Applicative
11:55:11 <shachaf> ion: Please fix the hierarchy to look like that. :-(
11:56:00 <ion> shachaf: Ok, fixed. I also added type families while i was at it.
11:56:14 <shachaf> To whom?
11:56:23 <ion> to ur mom
11:56:30 <shachaf> I mean, where do type families belong?
11:58:17 <ion> shachaf: For constraints, so you can make Set a functor for instance.
11:59:03 <shachaf> "ew :'("
11:59:08 <shachaf> Besides Set will never be Applicative.
12:00:51 <atriq> class Functor f => Pointed f where pure :: a -> f a; unit :: f (); pure a = a <$ unit; unit = pure ()
12:02:24 <atriq> class Functor f => Apply f where (<*>) :: f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b; azip :: f a -> f b -> f (a, b); azip as bs = (,) <$> as <*> bs; fs <*> as = uncurry id <$> azip fs bs
12:02:39 <atriq> type Applicative f = (Pointed f, Apply f)
12:02:48 <atriq> :)
12:02:50 <ion> That’s not zipping.
12:03:05 <shachaf> atriq: No, Applicative has laws.
12:03:12 <shachaf> As edwardk pointed out in the other channel earlier.
12:03:37 <shachaf> Also what ion said.
12:03:46 <atriq> ion, is that me making a mistake, or is that me naming things badly?
12:04:06 <ion> > zip [0..5] [0..5]
12:04:08 <lambdabot> [(0,0),(1,1),(2,2),(3,3),(4,4),(5,5)]
12:04:11 <ion> > liftA2 (,) [0..5] [0..5]
12:04:13 <lambdabot> [(0,0),(0,1),(0,2),(0,3),(0,4),(0,5),(1,0),(1,1),(1,2),(1,3),(1,4),(1,5),(2...
12:04:27 <shachaf> > getZipList $ liftA2 (,) (ZipList [0..5]) (ZipList [0..5])
12:04:28 <lambdabot> [(0,0),(1,1),(2,2),(3,3),(4,4),(5,5)]
12:05:27 <atriq> You could do "class (Pointed f, Apply f) => Applicative f
12:05:59 <shachaf> Better.
12:06:49 <atriq> class (Apply f, forall a. Semigroup (f a)) => Alt f
12:07:27 <atriq> Would that work?
12:15:06 <shachaf> Not really?
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15:46:11 <shachaf> oh no it's elliott
15:46:36 <quintopia> nooooo
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15:46:41 <fizzie> It's nolliott.
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15:51:09 <quintopia> it's fizzilott
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15:56:32 <Phantom_Hoover> oh for-- i got another great strand extractor who isn't a vampire
15:56:32 <monqy> hi
15:56:45 <Phantom_Hoover> all this fucking around with doors and levers was pointless
15:57:14 <nortti> does anyone here have any experience with seamonkey 1.5 or seamonkey on windows 95
15:59:00 <monqy> is this about a dumpster computer
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16:01:19 <shachaf> for++
16:01:42 <monqy> @karma for
16:01:42 <lambdabot> for has a karma of -3
16:01:47 <monqy> yikes, shachaf!!!!!!!!
16:02:11 <shachaf> monqy: help
16:02:13 <shachaf> what happened
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16:02:48 <shachaf> @karma milkshakes
16:02:49 <lambdabot> milkshakes has a karma of -2678
16:02:53 <shachaf> help
16:02:54 <monqy> how did this happen
16:03:00 <shachaf> which this
16:03:04 <nortti> monqy: no. I'm going to fork seamonkey
16:03:05 <monqy> milshakes
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16:03:23 <shachaf> monqy: i don't even know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
16:03:30 <monqy> milkshakes++
16:03:33 <shachaf> maybe dracula did it?
16:03:39 <monqy> milkshakes++
16:03:52 <shachaf> @karma milkshakes
16:03:52 <lambdabot> milkshakes has a karma of -2676
16:03:56 <shachaf> you have a long way to go monqy
16:03:57 <nortti> monqy: actually depends on whether you count my computer as dumpster conmputer
16:04:06 <monqy> did you get it from a dumpster
16:04:13 <nortti> monqy: yes
16:04:19 <monqy> then it's a dumpster computer.......................
16:04:24 <nortti> ok
16:04:30 <elliott> dumpster computers are computers that compute dumpsters
16:04:30 <lambdabot> elliott: You have 10 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
16:04:34 <elliott>
16:04:36 <elliott> ok
16:05:04 <nortti> elliott: how does one compute dumpsters?
16:05:09 <shachaf> elliott: wait what
16:05:21 <shachaf> elliott: I demand @messages in public
16:05:32 <elliott> i demand no
16:05:41 <nortti> shachaf: there you go
16:05:44 <nortti> @messages
16:05:45 <lambdabot> You don't have any new messages.
16:05:56 <shachaf> elliott: why cant you be like nortti?
16:06:03 <monqy> @messages
16:06:04 <lambdabot> You don't have any new messages.
16:06:08 <monqy> does this make me Cool
16:06:10 <atriq> @messages
16:06:10 <lambdabot> You don't have any new messages.
16:06:14 <atriq> Yes
16:06:16 <nortti> shachaf: do you want elliot to be insane?
16:06:18 <shachaf> @ask monqy oops
16:06:19 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:06:56 <shachaf> hey elliott
16:07:02 <monqy> @messages?
16:07:02 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
16:07:03 <monqy> @messages.
16:07:03 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages messages?
16:07:06 <shachaf> Did you know I have OVER A THOUSAND stackoverflow points?
16:07:13 <monqy> @message
16:07:13 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages messages?
16:07:17 <monqy> :(
16:07:26 <shachaf> @ask monqy you fool!
16:07:26 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:07:35 -!- elliott has left.
16:07:36 <shachaf> monqy: "not meant as an insult btw"
16:07:52 <shachaf> monqy: "just saying you shouldn't have done that"
16:08:41 * shachaf goes to sleep.
16:09:51 -!- elliott has joined.
16:10:03 * nortti doesn't
16:13:44 <elliott> fizzie: -t pls
16:13:48 <elliott> (the mode)
16:13:57 <elliott> wolfe.freenode.net set +t for no apparent reason
16:15:44 <fizzie> Fancy that.
16:15:49 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie.
16:15:53 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -t.
16:15:56 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o fizzie.
16:16:31 <elliott> thanks fizzie. you're the best
16:22:14 <shachaf> elliott: I didn't link you to it.
16:22:37 <shachaf> I came across it in an unrelated context and mentioned it in the channel out of surprise.
16:22:43 <shachaf> Then monqy sent you a message.
16:23:42 <monqy> are you sleep-typing
16:23:48 <shachaf> Yes. :-(
16:24:04 <shachaf> Actually I was waiting for my laundry to finish.
16:24:10 <monqy> that's not sleeping
16:24:21 <shachaf> I wanted to sleep!
16:25:34 <shachaf> Oh, well.
16:25:37 <shachaf> Now I'll sleep.
16:25:52 <zzo38> O no! It seems that GEN plugins in Csound cannot take string parameters, since the name of the plugin is already a string parameter.
16:26:14 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:28:23 <zzo38> Did this channel used to have a -t mode lock? CS INFO #esoteric currently reports only +n mode lock
16:28:45 <zzo38> Also did the founder be changed?
16:30:47 -!- elliott has joined.
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16:31:00 <AnotherTest> Hello
16:32:04 <nortti> hi
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16:34:54 -!- elliott has joined.
16:40:16 <zzo38> Another possible use of zero-length arrays in C would be type idenfication, I think. For example: #define T(x) (sizeof((x).typeid[0])) Would it work, though?
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16:55:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: public class MohammedAli { float like_a_butterfly; string like_a_bee; }).
16:56:54 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
17:01:40 -!- elliott has joined.
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17:29:43 <kmc> 'Cambridge Police: Woman summonsed after grabbing EMT’s breasts'
17:30:47 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq.
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18:04:00 -!- Bike has joined.
18:05:36 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:12:54 <zzo38> I did figure out a way to send string parameters to GEN plugins using GEN01 deferred allocation. It is a bit klugy but it does work.
18:27:55 <fizzie> 20:26 [freenode] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- Founder : freenode-staff
18:27:59 <fizzie> Yes, I think that's new.
18:28:02 <fizzie> Or at least new-ish.
18:29:18 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:29:38 -!- elliott has joined.
18:41:16 <zzo38>
18:41:42 <elliott>
18:41:44 <zzo38> Was the mode lock set before? I don't know, maybe I don't remember.
18:45:42 <Vorpal> <fizzie> 20:26 [freenode] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- Founder : freenode-staff <-- ouch
18:45:54 <Vorpal> so the account of the original owner expired
18:47:52 <elliott> not like it matters
18:49:09 <Vorpal> hopefully not
18:53:50 <fizzie> There was a +nc-mst mode lock before; there have also been mode locks +sc, +n-s, -nt, +ntc-slk and +n.
18:54:11 <elliott> oh right
18:54:13 <elliott> can you remove +n too
18:54:16 <elliott> thanks
18:56:29 <fizzie> [2012-06-12 15:47:08] <fizzie> I don't set modes. Anyway, -n is ANARCHY and CHAOS and HINGE.
18:56:48 <fizzie> It was -n few moments there in June, and I think that was enough.
18:56:58 <fizzie> It was after all exactly those things.
18:57:15 <elliott> fizzie: OK but you set modes today.
18:57:41 <fizzie> Or DID I?
18:58:02 <elliott> fizzie: also codu doesn't record you as saying that????
18:58:06 <elliott> either that day or the two surrounding days
19:00:09 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:01:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
19:03:36 <fizzie> http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2012-06-12.txt seems to have an inexplicable gap from 07:19:17 to 14:56:03 -- I have 343 lines of stuffs in-between those.
19:04:19 <fizzie> [2012-06-12 15:33:22] <elliott> Gregor: Yo, fix glogbot already.
19:04:23 <fizzie> History; it's so malleable.
19:05:32 <Gregor> fizzie: Send me those lines and I can integrate them. Richards@codu.org .
19:05:49 <fizzie> They're in a stupid format. Does that matter?
19:05:57 <Gregor> Depends how stupid, I suppose :)
19:06:01 <fizzie> The thing I've been pasting has been a fake.
19:06:08 <Gregor> I always have to change the format, since glogbot logs in raw IRC.
19:06:15 <fizzie> In reality it looks like 12-06-2012 15:33:22 < elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott: Gregor: Yo, fix glogbot already.
19:06:16 <quintopia> gregor doesnt incorporate things that require extra effort
19:06:29 -!- elliott has joined.
19:06:34 <quintopia> for instance, the new bfjoust scoring system
19:06:54 <Gregor> quintopia: Logs are more important than BFJoust ;)
19:07:06 <quintopia> are they?
19:07:17 <quintopia> even logs from june?
19:07:24 <elliott> fizzie: I bet -n broke glogbot.
19:07:27 <Gregor> Eeeeeevery log is saaaaaaaacred
19:07:32 <Gregor> Eeeeeevery log is goooooooooood
19:07:32 <elliott> Gregor: Can glogbot handle people talking who aren't in the channel?
19:07:44 <quintopia> i'll lay a log on your mom
19:07:58 <Gregor> elliott: Sure, it doesn't really care who's in the channel except to know how to report QUIT.
19:10:22 <zzo38> Yes I have tried it, if you sent message directly to glogbot it will still be logged (except password command).
19:11:51 <fizzie> If you privmsg your password to glogbot, it will show up as "hunter2".
19:11:55 <fizzie> Or so I heard.
19:12:57 <quintopia> yeah its true, i tested it
19:13:02 <zzo38> Well if that is your password it will. I mean specifically password command not just a command which contains your password. I think.
19:13:05 <zzo38> Gregor: Is it?
19:13:48 <Gregor> Oh u
19:17:18 <zzo38> My logs are also raw IRC, although still different from glogbot; I use SIRCL although it should be easy to convert between if you don't need microseconds.
19:22:43 <zzo38> Some log formats don't log hostnames, don't log seconds, etc, if you need to convert a format without hostnames into one that has, I suggest using "notavailable.pseudo", and if one without seconds/microseconds to one that has, to use zero.
19:23:21 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
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19:31:16 <atriq> elliott, did you start the fortress yet!
19:32:29 <elliott> nope
19:32:31 <elliott> i will soon
19:34:59 <atriq> Close enough?
19:38:22 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:38:49 -!- Arc_Koen has joined.
19:39:13 -!- elliott has joined.
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19:41:53 -!- elliott has joined.
19:44:18 <atriq> Help I'm having a positive influence on the community
19:44:31 <fizzie> Start saying the opposite of what you would otherwise say.
19:44:36 <fizzie> That should balance things out.
19:44:44 <atriq> That's a brilliant idea
19:44:49 <atriq> Not ridiculous at all
19:45:01 <fizzie> Oh, you started already. Good.
19:45:01 <atriq> I'll not do it.
19:49:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
20:01:32 <coppro> lawl
20:09:55 <atriq> Huh
20:10:24 <atriq> data Stack :: (* -> * -> *) where EmptyStack :: Stack Zero a; PushStack :: a -> Stack n a -> Stack (Succ n) a
20:10:37 <atriq> I need to mess with GADTs more
20:11:18 <Arc_Koen> what's this :: operator?
20:11:23 <atriq> It's not an operator
20:11:30 <atriq> This is messy experimental Haskell stuff
20:11:31 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:11:31 <Arc_Koen> in ocaml it means cons (as in head :: tail)
20:11:39 <atriq> In Haskell, that would be :
20:11:54 <atriq> :: means "Had type of" or, as here, "Has kind of"
20:12:01 <Arc_Koen> oh, right
20:12:06 <oerjan> yeah those are switched :)
20:12:32 <Arc_Koen> yeah you can use : to force a type in ocaml
20:12:38 <atriq> Did the creators of ML and Haskell get together and say "How awkward can we make it for people to switch between the two?"
20:13:00 <oerjan> atriq: i assume haskell borrowed it from miranda
20:13:09 <oerjan> ML was definitely oldest
20:13:12 <Arc_Koen> and ocaml is french, so it's ok to be reversed
20:13:27 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: i assume it's the same in standard ml as in ocaml
20:13:38 <Arc_Koen> I certainly hope so
20:13:48 <Arc_Koen> but that's beyong my time
20:13:56 <zzo38> I don't need a type "Succ" if the type "Maybe" would work?
20:14:28 <oerjan> zzo38: i think you can use Maybe instead of Succ for type-level calculations, yes
20:14:41 <atriq> zzo38, you could even use [] or IO
20:15:06 <zzo38> atriq: Yes you could, but if Zero is uninhabited then you have (Maybe (Maybe (Maybe Zero))) with three possible values, and so on.
20:15:12 <Deewiant> ML : and :: are Miranda :: and :, yes
20:15:18 <atriq> Or StateT [Integer] (WriterT Ordering STM)
20:15:27 <atriq> zzo38, it's the types that matter, not the values
20:15:53 <zzo38> It is why I would use Maybe here, even if the values are not used. Since, it will be compatible with something which does use values of that type.
20:16:10 <oerjan> i guess the rationale is that cons is more often used than type annotation
20:16:16 <atriq> You could, if you want, replace Zero with any type of kind *
20:16:31 <atriq> It doesn't matter if the type has values or not
20:16:35 <zzo38> Therefore in (Stack n a) then you can use the n type as an index to read something inside the stack.
20:16:38 <oerjan> while original ML borrowed the : from mathematical type theory
20:17:26 <oerjan> mind you miranda had a crazy type notation - type variables were *, **, *** etc.
20:17:55 <oerjan> so haskell improved some of the syntax
20:18:04 <zzo38> atriq: Yes you could do that too; but at least how I generally do, is define Zero as uninhabited, and use that as the number zero in types as well as using it as an uninhabited type in general.
20:18:29 <kmc> they should have used *, †, ‡, etc.
20:18:47 <oerjan> miranda was almost certainly pre-unicode
20:19:03 <kmc> i'll make my own encoding! with blackjack! and hookers!
20:19:31 <kmc> ♠♥♦♣
20:19:32 <oerjan> has anyone made their own esolang with blackjack and hookers yet
20:19:51 <Fiora> kmc: UTF-HOMESTUCK?
20:20:19 <zzo38> I think you should use name mangling for codes higher than ASCII, like CWEB and Punycode does.
20:21:15 <atriq> Fiora, are you on Sgeo__'s list of people to tell when an update happens?
20:21:22 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure ghc does in the backend(s)
20:21:54 <zzo38> I think they should do that with Haskell, too. Or, if is made Ibtlfmm with a Unicode extension, it makes the name like that, so that the same file can be used with ASCII files.
20:21:57 <oerjan> z<character> means something else
20:22:33 <zzo38> oerjan: But is it possible to do it with source files?
20:23:03 <kmc> we already have a fine way to represent unicode characters as sequences of bytes
20:23:17 <oerjan> ghc always assumes utf-8 for source file contents (ignoring comments which are more lenient)
20:23:23 <kmc> amazingly there are people in the world who don't use English as their primary language
20:23:28 <kmc> and might want to edit documents in their native tongue
20:23:32 <kmc> including source code
20:23:51 <fizzie> kmc: And that fine way is surely UTF-1.
20:23:54 <oerjan> what was that icelandic programming language again
20:24:29 <kmc> a bunch of countries had national localized variants of BASIC
20:24:35 <zzo38> kmc: Yes I agree you might want to do that, but you can use whatever encoding you want it shouldn't require Unicode specifically. As long as it is ASCII compatible, comments can be in any encoding you want.
20:24:38 <Sgeo__> How do you get "more lenient" than an encoding? Is GHC expected to guess what encodings are used in a comment?
20:24:44 <kmc> usually as part of some government "teach our children to computer good" initiative
20:24:46 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fj%C3%B6lnir_(programming_language)
20:24:49 <Fiora> atriq: yes yes I am
20:24:52 <kmc> Sgeo__: you can allow invalid UTF-8 sequences in comments
20:24:55 <Sgeo__> Ah
20:25:05 <kmc> basically you look for the terminator "-}" as a byte sequence
20:25:07 <Fiora> it is super useful actually
20:25:10 <zzo38> kmc: Yes I think invalid UTF-8 sequences should be allowed in comments.
20:25:31 <kmc> so then you can use UTF-8 or ISO-8859-anything in comments
20:25:52 <Sgeo__> Can't use UTF-16 in comments though
20:26:00 <kmc> true but why the fuck would you do that
20:26:01 <Sgeo__> Erm, well, hmm.
20:26:08 <kmc> multibyte CJK encodings is a more realistic concern
20:26:29 <zzo38> I agree you should be allowed to use anything in comments as long as not conflict with the ASCII codes which terminate the comment.
20:26:30 <kmc> sadly } is not in the ISO 646 invariant set, so if I go back in time 40 years and try to program Haskell on a norwegian microcomputer I might have some troubles
20:26:45 <oerjan> zzo38: i guess ghc decided to do only utf-8 to avoid a mess for transferring files between people with different setups
20:26:46 <kmc> have to end your comments with -å
20:27:07 <kmc> GHC also allows non-ASCII identifiers though
20:27:09 <elliott> probably ghc did utf-8 only because it is the only reasonable thing to do
20:27:17 <kmc> and for those you need to know both the encoding and the character properties database
20:27:23 <pikhq_> zzo38: Character encodings come in two sorts: UTF-8, and insane.
20:27:29 <pikhq_> I do not support insanity.
20:27:35 <kmc> yeah
20:28:03 <zzo38> Unicode (I don't mean UTF-8, I mean Unicode in general) is crazy.
20:28:26 <pikhq_> Near as I can tell, essentially all complexity in Unicode is inherent to the domain.
20:28:33 <pikhq_> Unicode is complex because *text* is complex.
20:28:36 <kmc> unicode is pretty crazy but the advantages of using this global standard outweigh whatever complexity could be avoided by using your weird thing
20:28:47 <pikhq_> There's a small handful of things that could be simplified about it.
20:29:06 <pikhq_> But those are things you're probably not even thinking of.
20:29:09 <kmc> of course i am talking to someone who thinks that gopher is the best hypertext protocol and magic the gathering is the best programming language
20:29:16 <zzo38> I don't care if they don't do anything other than UTF-8 that is OK, as long as it is compatible with ASCII, which UTF-8 is. But they should allow the names to have ASCII equivalents, somewhat like Punycode does it. Or, just use ASCII encoding and ignore Unicode and everything, and do name conversion like CWEB does it.
20:29:50 <oerjan> Fiora: Sgeo__ the human feed reader
20:29:52 <kmc> people who speak only english tend to have poor perspective on the way text works globally
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20:30:11 <kmc> english is like the simplest case
20:30:11 <pikhq_> (Korean could be encoded jamo by jamo instead of jamo by jamo *or* syllable by syllable, for instance)
20:30:36 <pikhq_> kmc: ASCII doesn't even *quite* handle English, it just handles a sizeable subset of English.
20:30:40 <kmc> right
20:30:47 <kmc> it handles enough that most english speakers don't really care
20:30:50 <Sgeo__> pikhq_, hmm?
20:30:58 <zzo38> Therefore it work as well with UTF-8 as anything else if you don't care about encoding and just ensure that 8-bits encoding works.
20:31:00 <Sgeo__> What of English does ASCII not handle?
20:31:06 <elliott> Sgeo__: café
20:31:13 <kmc> but english might be almost the only language that's true for
20:31:16 <pikhq_> Sgeo__: Well, you see, “quotation” doesn't work in ASCII properly.
20:31:19 <elliott> coöperate
20:31:20 <kmc> even among those using the latin alphabet
20:31:22 <elliott>
20:31:25 <kmc> confusion of hyphen and minus
20:31:33 <kmc> all kinds of typographical stuff that's used in english text
20:31:36 <elliott> × (arguable, but)
20:31:56 <kmc> ASCII has $ but not £; English my ass!
20:31:59 <atriq> "pt"
20:32:07 <zzo38> You can code typographical stuff in TeX, even using only ASCII input file.
20:32:13 <kmc> so
20:32:26 <elliott> kmc: can you enlighten me, why are you arguing with zzo about encodings
20:32:26 <zzo38> But, TeX does support 8-bit input file too, if it would help.
20:32:31 <kmc> yeah i dunno
20:32:34 <pikhq_> zzo38: Or you can do it in a transparent and clean manner by encoding things properly.
20:32:37 <elliott> been wondering that for a few minutes
20:32:52 <kmc> i think i'm not so much arguing with zzo38 as vigorously agreeing with everyone else
20:32:59 <pikhq_> zzo38: By the way, have fun using ASCII input for Japanese.
20:32:59 <kmc> i know that zzo38 is a harmless and entertaining crackpot
20:33:02 <pikhq_> Anywho.
20:33:25 <kmc> but it bugs me how much that attitude pervades programming communities
20:33:58 <zzo38> Just do what CWEB does with 8-bit characters.
20:34:01 <Phantom_Hoover> what is zzo38 even arguing for
20:34:06 <Phantom_Hoover> unicode being stupid?
20:34:22 <atriq> Phantom_Hoover, to exercise his keyboard, maybe
20:34:33 <Phantom_Hoover> har har
20:34:43 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: Near as I can tell, he thinks that "a char is a character" is holy doctrine.
20:35:26 <nortti> lets make char 32bit. problem solved
20:35:41 <pikhq_> A codepoint is not a character.
20:35:49 <zzo38> Unicode is being stupid. In applications where you need universal character sets, it would have been better to design to change code points so that you don't need a lot of tables to know how to decode everything and fallback and so on.
20:36:42 <pikhq_> zzo38: Your proposal requires *more* tables.
20:36:54 <kmc> zzo38: that would be simpler tech but it would not accurately represent the complexities of how text is used world wide
20:36:59 <kmc> including the need to accommodate legacy encodings
20:37:01 <Phantom_Hoover> anyway, afaict oerjan's dorf is miserable solely because someone else has a slightly better bedroom
20:37:21 <kmc> unicode would be a lot simpler if it didn't have to interconvert with legacy encodings, and there would be some value in that
20:37:30 <kmc> but it would hinder adoption
20:38:51 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: darn that dorf really _is_ me, isn't he.
20:39:03 <kmc> frankly i'm sick of programmers who have maximal privilege wrt character encodings complaining about the extra work necessary to make computers accessible to others
20:40:38 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: yo how do you do the dfhack thing
20:40:40 <elliott> with the thing
20:40:41 <elliott> and the thing
20:40:53 <Phantom_Hoover> um
20:40:54 <kmc> but hey as long as your software works for rich, able bodied English speakers living in San Francisco, that's good enough to make loads of cash
20:40:59 <Phantom_Hoover> you mean the labour manager?
20:41:02 <Phantom_Hoover> ul
20:42:25 <zzo38> I make open source software so if someone wants something which I don't want, they can add it, anyways.
20:43:11 <oerjan> 16:28:23: <zzo38> Did this channel used to have a -t mode lock? CS INFO #esoteric currently reports only +n mode lock
20:43:14 <oerjan> 16:28:45: <zzo38> Also did the founder be changed?
20:43:51 <oerjan> (1) fizzie had just changed it back (2) i think andreou was finally deregistered in freenode's last database cleanup
20:44:06 <kmc> zzo38: but you can design it in such a way that others can add these features later
20:44:09 <oerjan> and the default policy is to transfer to freenode staff.
20:44:19 <kmc> or you can design it in a way that is willfully incompatible with the global standard
20:44:22 <kmc> for no reason
20:45:12 <zzo38> kmc: I design in whatever way I think is best. Usually that means that any ASCII-compatible encoding (such as UTF-8, CP437, etc) is allowed in comments.
20:45:50 <zzo38> And possibly in text too, it just won't decode it unless you tell it explicitly what it is.
20:46:10 <elliott> oerjan: (3) please set -n
20:50:01 <oerjan> ^ul ((SPAM )S:^):^
20:50:12 <fizzie> Oh no!
20:50:17 <oerjan> fizzie: FUNGOT DEFICIENCY!
20:50:30 <elliott> oerjan: (3) please set -n
20:50:34 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
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20:50:52 <oerjan> ^ul ((SPAM )S:^):^
20:50:56 -!- nooga has joined.
20:51:08 <oerjan> elliott: see my assistant fungot's counterargument
20:51:09 <fungot> oerjan: someone once said it seems to come up with for ( f 2 1) 2
20:51:31 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:51:45 <elliott> oerjan: spammers don't actually use that, come on
20:52:30 <fizzie> The very last time I -n'd it was immediately all "HOKUM PRO HOKUM FREE SNAKES & A BARREL COME TO GOOGLE.EXE" from random-looking nicknames.
20:52:58 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, oh also
20:53:02 <elliott> fizzie: right but i seem to recall that was actually me
20:53:12 <elliott> and I spam even with +n
20:53:13 <elliott> so
20:53:19 <Phantom_Hoover> i just found out, dfhack also actually fixes two major bugs if you use the right commands
20:53:35 <elliott> what are the bugs
20:53:38 <elliott> btw did that underwater bug ever get fixed
20:53:48 <oerjan> elliott: we prefer to have spammers where we can at least potentially ban them. hth.
20:53:54 <elliott> oerjan: +b works with -n...
20:53:59 <elliott> stuff can't send to the channel if it's banned
20:54:03 <oerjan> oh it does?
20:54:11 <elliott> well cf. the fact that you can't send messages while banned but in a channel
20:54:17 <atriq> elliott, apparently there's a which in Hexham who has a shop opposite Gaia
20:54:18 <Phantom_Hoover> not afaik, but the actual nature of it was unclear
20:54:21 <elliott> I haven't actually tested it but you'd have to specifically code it to be really stupid for it not to work
20:54:36 <Phantom_Hoover> anyway, the bugs are that humans and elves are meant to send diplomats
20:54:52 <atriq> elliott, which is on Market Street, I think
20:54:58 <elliott> atriq: a which
20:55:06 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: oh, well, no risk of diplomats where we're going
20:55:10 <atriq> I meant "witch"
20:55:14 <oerjan> elliott: i dunno, it would be more efficient not to have to check a nick against the ban list on every message
20:55:15 <Phantom_Hoover> oh fuck what are you doing
20:55:24 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: it's all under control
20:55:24 <fizzie> atriq: I liked it more when you were talking about a which.
20:55:37 <oerjan> with regexps, that is
20:55:54 <elliott> oerjan: ...but you already have to do that (and bans aren't regexps)
20:56:02 <elliott> because people who are banned cannot talk even if they are still in the channel
20:56:22 <fizzie> You need a which in order to become a dak.
20:56:22 -!- sebbu has joined.
20:56:52 <fizzie> @wn dak
20:56:52 <lambdabot> *** "dak" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
20:56:53 <lambdabot> dak
20:56:53 <lambdabot> n 1: East Indian tree bearing a profusion of intense vermilion
20:56:53 <lambdabot> velvet-textured blooms and yielding a yellow dye [syn:
20:56:53 <lambdabot> {dhak}, {dak}, {palas}, {Butea frondosa}, {Butea
20:56:54 <lambdabot> monosperma}]
20:57:10 <elliott> oerjan: anyway my point is -n pls
20:57:15 <elliott> no hokum I promise
20:57:28 <oerjan> elliott: but if it doesn't include people sending from outside the channel you only need to check the regexps when someone joins or the ban list is changed
20:57:51 <oerjan> then you can set a simple flag to check on each message
20:57:56 <zzo38> Is the source codes for this IRC server available, if so can you check?
20:57:56 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:58:05 <elliott> oerjan: ok how about we test it
20:58:11 <elliott> you set -n and kickban me
20:58:13 <elliott> then I try to send messages
20:58:38 <elliott> it is like science but with more pain
20:59:34 <oerjan> hexham's coven consists of a which, a whose and a wherefore
20:59:52 <elliott> please it's been ages since I was kicked
20:59:55 <elliott> need to keep up my reputation
21:00:11 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
21:00:36 <oerjan> wtf is MLOCK
21:00:46 <elliott> mode mlock
21:00:49 <elliott> you need to remove +n from it
21:00:54 <elliott> *lock
21:00:55 <zzo38> Probably mode lock; you need a CS command to change it
21:01:20 <zzo38> Try CS HELP to see what command you need
21:01:36 -!- tswett_ has changed nick to tswett.
21:03:26 <atriq> Help
21:03:40 <atriq> I want to through money at iTunes, but I don't want to install iTunes
21:03:42 <atriq> What do
21:04:17 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -n.
21:04:25 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*elliott@unaffiliated/elliott.
21:04:25 -!- oerjan has kicked elliott elliott.
21:04:25 <oklopol> to throw through thorough money
21:04:42 <oerjan> FOR SCIENCE
21:04:51 <oklopol> sexy science
21:05:03 <elliott> pro hokum
21:05:19 <oklopol> w
21:05:20 <elliott> redeeming astrophysics
21:05:20 <oklopol> o
21:05:21 <oklopol> w
21:05:36 <elliott> porcupine gramophone
21:05:39 <olsner> here yet not here, it's magic
21:05:53 <elliott> technicality matriculator
21:06:16 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +n.
21:07:17 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -n.
21:07:48 <elliott> antipodal piano
21:07:50 <elliott> rock lobster
21:07:50 <oerjan> i hope MLOCK didn't contain anything other than +n originally, my attempt to check just cleared it
21:08:03 <elliott> extralegal monogamy
21:08:14 <fizzie> oerjan: It did not recently contain anything else.
21:08:20 <elliott> synonymic logic
21:08:32 <elliott> free pizza
21:08:32 <oerjan> good, good
21:08:47 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +n.
21:08:50 <fizzie> <fizzie> There was a +nc-mst mode lock before; there have also been mode locks +sc, +n-s, -nt, +ntc-slk and +n.
21:09:07 <fizzie> (I'm not sure what was up with +sc.)
21:09:34 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*elliott@unaffiliated/elliott.
21:09:44 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
21:09:58 -!- elliott has joined.
21:11:30 <fizzie> Reason: 400 load at 31.22, try later
21:11:31 <fizzie> Maybe switching to eternal-september wasn't such a great idea after all.
21:12:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm?
21:13:36 <fizzie> I switched from my ISP's Usenet server to eternal-september, since the former had been kind of flaky, with messages missing.
21:14:02 <fizzie> Now I got the above when trying to read news.
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21:18:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:18:26 -!- nooga has joined.
21:23:58 * oerjan laughs at today's darths & droids
21:24:17 <oerjan> (it might require some context)
21:26:52 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:35:37 <fizzie> Reason: 400 load at 36.52, try later
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22:16:26 -!- nooodl has joined.
22:17:17 <nooodl> hey, what's the most well-known stack-based turing tarpit
22:18:03 <atriq> Underload, or maybe False?
22:18:37 <nooodl> ooh underload looks like it's what i need
22:19:00 <atriq> What're you doing?
22:19:53 <nooodl> well, "need" is a strong word, but it's just, i was wondering how you would prove a simple stack-based language to be TC
22:20:00 <Arc_Koen> underload is stack)based ?
22:20:05 <Arc_Koen> why didn't you mention that before!
22:20:11 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: that's one interpretation of it
22:20:29 <Arc_Koen> ooooookay.
22:20:43 <oerjan> did i make that alternative interpretation section i was thinking of...
22:21:04 <atriq> Evidently not
22:21:06 <oerjan> yep
22:21:17 <oerjan> um http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload#Rewriting_semantics
22:21:46 <atriq> Huh
22:23:32 <oerjan> nooodl: the minimization section is all about how little of it you need to be TC
22:23:41 -!- monqy has joined.
22:26:00 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:26:20 <nooodl> oerjan: interesting. thanks
22:26:51 <elliott> note: there are easier ways to prove underload TC
22:26:56 -!- jiella has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
22:27:02 <Phantom_Hoover> wait
22:27:06 <Phantom_Hoover> isn't nooodl monqy
22:27:26 <oerjan> indeed. it gets harder with fewer building blocks. and the ! removals are esoteric in themselves.
22:27:34 <nooodl> monqy: help
22:27:40 <monqy> hi
22:27:40 <lambdabot> monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
22:27:43 <monqy> help
22:29:42 <oerjan> the unlambda (well, really ski + a little extra) to underload conversion is the first proof, it is relatively simple and uses all commands.
22:34:10 <Sgeo__> Phantom_Hoover, did you see the latest update?
22:34:54 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
22:35:01 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:35:50 -!- elliott has joined.
22:37:26 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
22:38:04 <Arc_Koen> to your blog?
22:40:11 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:40:13 <oerjan> ಠ_ಠ
22:42:20 <Phantom_Hoover> oh
22:42:21 <Phantom_Hoover> no
22:42:52 <Phantom_Hoover> wow this one is amazing
22:45:22 <Arc_Koen> the author hardly remained anonymous though
22:45:23 <Arc_Koen> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Gabrielkfl
22:48:27 <Arc_Koen> anyway, have a good night
22:50:27 <oerjan> @help remember
22:50:28 <lambdabot> quote <nick>
22:50:28 <lambdabot> remember <nick> <quote>
22:50:28 <lambdabot> Quote somebody, a random person, or save a memorable quote
22:51:11 <oerjan> @remember ndmitchell I don't understand the semantics of Hoogle either, and I wrote it!
22:51:11 <lambdabot> I will never forget.
22:51:29 <Arc_Koen> hey shouldn't Truth-machine be in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Examples?
22:51:40 <oerjan> hm quite possibly
22:53:11 <oerjan> perhaps Deadfish too...
22:58:12 <Arc_Koen> hmm hey if I add, say, a "duplicate a block then deblock the copy" instruction to Ftack
22:58:29 <Arc_Koen> wouldn't it be more powerful?
22:58:44 <quintopia> is ftack turing-complete already?
22:58:53 <oerjan> nope
22:59:43 <Arc_Koen> far from it :)
22:59:50 <Arc_Koen> well, I guess
23:00:58 <oerjan> well at the very least i think you'd get a larger class of infinite loops
23:05:30 <Arc_Koen> anyway, good nght
23:05:43 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Gateship. It's a ship. It goes through the gate!).
23:08:54 -!- nooga has joined.
23:14:18 <nooga> elliott: have you seen my brogue streamer screenshot?
23:16:44 <elliott> yep
23:18:13 <nooga> it's broken, but I'm working on it
23:18:40 <nooga> pretty efficient also, changes to Brogue's platform code were minimal
23:21:39 <nooga> it can handle full color and animation
23:21:54 <elliott> I presume it just streams the faketerm
23:22:16 <nooga> but there's no realtime "omniscience" mode & inventory view
23:23:16 <nooga> I changed Brogue's platform code to accumulate screen updates in a buffer and send them via TCP socket when game commits the changes to the screen
23:23:34 <elliott> well, letting spectators use omniscience would be bad
23:23:55 <nooga> and then there is a simple server that broadcasts this stuff to websocket clients
23:24:06 <nooga> an I use rot.js for rendering
23:24:45 <nooga> well, yeah :D
23:25:06 <elliott> it would be nice if there was an in-game spectating mode too, though I don't know how hard that would be
23:25:46 <nooga> not very hard, I got some ideas from Joshua Day
23:26:29 <nooga> anyway
23:26:47 <nooga> I guess this web client is an excercise in futility
23:27:13 <elliott> if you can do spectating then you can also do server-based play
23:27:35 <nooga> I thought about that
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