←2012-11-25 2012-11-26 2012-11-27→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:01:14 -!- lambdabot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:05:22 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
00:11:32 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:19:41 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:19:54 -!- elliott has joined.
00:28:29 -!- sirdancealot8 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
00:34:53 -!- Rawlie has joined.
00:37:05 <Rawlie> K
00:39:19 <oerjan> `welcome Rawlie
00:39:31 <HackEgo> Rawlie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:54:07 -!- zzo38 has joined.
00:55:10 <Rawlie> thank you
00:55:37 <zzo38> You're welcome.
01:00:59 <shachaf> zzo38++
01:01:24 <oerjan> shachaf++
01:01:35 <oerjan> also, lambdabot isn't here.
01:01:59 <shachaf> oerjan: Also, karma is meaningless.
01:02:02 <elliott> `addquote <oerjan> `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 (~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca) has joined #esoteric <Rawlie> thank you <zzo38> You're welcome.
01:02:06 <HackEgo> 856) <oerjan> `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 (~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca) has joined #esoteric <Rawlie> thank you <zzo38> You're welcome.
01:02:58 <FireFly> The hostname could've been stripped from the quote
01:03:14 <elliott> feel free :P
01:03:32 <FireFly> `delquote 856
01:03:33 <oerjan> but you _must_ use sed to do it. strict policy.
01:03:37 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <oerjan> `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 (~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca) has joined #esoteric <Rawlie> thank you <zzo38> You're welcome.
01:03:37 <oerjan> dran.
01:03:54 <zzo38> Or replace with a different domain name if you want "zzo38computer.org" since that point to my computere even in case of DHCP change or ISP changed.
01:03:55 * oerjan swats FireFly for not using sed -----###
01:04:06 <FireFly> `addquote <oerjan> `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 has joined #esoteric <Rawlie> thank you <zzo38> You're welcome.
01:04:10 <HackEgo> 856) <oerjan> `welcome Rawlie * zzo38 has joined #esoteric <Rawlie> thank you <zzo38> You're welcome.
01:04:12 <zzo38> But, you might want to leave it as it is instead, in case you want to know it is Eastlink for now
01:04:27 <FireFly> oerjan: I don't know how to HackEgo :(
01:04:35 <oerjan> zzo38: i think FireFly was concerned about your privacy, more like
01:04:50 <FireFly> Well, mostly about the unnecessary clutter
01:05:07 <oerjan> FireFly: PAINFULLY, hth
01:05:12 <zzo38> I don't care about the privacy in this case; it is on the logs anyway and is public. Some things are private but this isn't one of them.
01:05:23 <elliott> what is private
01:05:40 <oerjan> elliott: an ancient pre-web concept
01:06:08 <shachaf> <HTML><a href="gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net/">Please use the gopher service.</a>
01:06:56 <oerjan> so basically private = gopher
01:07:03 <zzo38> No, that is public too
01:07:10 -!- lambdabot has joined.
01:07:14 <elliott> that link is broken right
01:07:18 <elliott> by way of using cjb.net
01:07:37 <zzo38> O, yes, I need to fix it.
01:08:08 <FireFly> You could also close that HTML element
01:08:08 <zzo38> Fixed
01:08:34 <zzo38> OK, I did that too, now.
01:10:20 <Sgeo__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GopherVR
01:11:19 <shachaf> > upon (!!2) succ "zzo38"
01:11:21 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `GHC.Types.Char' with `f0 GHC.Types.Char'
01:11:23 <Bike> Sgeo__: reminds me of goons "archaelogy"-ing old online VR systems.
01:11:25 <shachaf> > over (upon (!!2)) succ "zzo38"
01:11:27 <lambdabot> "zzp38"
01:11:49 <Sgeo__> :t over
01:11:50 <lambdabot> Setting s t a b -> (a -> b) -> s -> t
01:11:50 <Sgeo__> :t upon
01:11:52 <lambdabot> (Data.Data.Data s, Typeable a, Applicative f, Indexed Int k) => (s -> a) -> k (a -> f a) (s -> f s)
01:11:56 <elliott> > Left "abc" & uponTheDeep (last . fromRight) .~ 'x'
01:11:58 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `fromRight'
01:12:03 <Sgeo__> ..is this lens stuff?
01:12:08 <elliott> > Left "abc" & uponTheDeep (\(Right xs) -> last xs) .~ 'x'
01:12:09 <lambdabot> Left "abc"
01:12:12 <elliott> > Right "abc" & uponTheDeep (\(Right xs) -> last xs) .~ 'x'
01:12:15 <lambdabot> Right "abx"
01:12:16 <elliott> mm
01:12:27 <FireFly> Yeah, the type signature says "stab". Must be lenses
01:13:15 <Sgeo__> Now I really want to do lensey stuff in Clojure
01:13:17 <Sgeo__> That seems cool
01:13:26 <Sgeo__> Not that I understand it, but it seems cool.
01:13:29 <Bike> do you know what it is?
01:13:43 <elliott> good luck doing what lens does without a type system
01:14:01 <Sgeo__> Looks like sort of modifying a portion of a thing based on a function specifying where
01:14:16 <zzo38> I know about GopherVR, which can be used if you want a 3D render of the gopher menus. I just prefer the plain menus, and may be programmed differently for different device and virtual machine and whatever, whichever fit best for that specific computer.
01:14:34 <elliott> (upon/uponTheDeep are awful hacks and should not be used)
01:14:37 <zzo38> How can brainfuck have monad transformer but not monads?
01:14:46 <Bike> an important question
01:14:53 <elliott> > Right "abc" & _right._last .~ 'x'
01:14:54 <zzo38> If you have a category, you will have at least identity monad.
01:14:55 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
01:14:55 <lambdabot> with actual ty...
01:15:01 <elliott> oh
01:15:03 <elliott> > Right "abc" & _right._last ?~ 'x'
01:15:05 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe b0'
01:15:05 <lambdabot> with actual...
01:15:08 <elliott> what
01:15:09 <elliott> :t (?~)
01:15:11 <lambdabot> Setting s t a (Maybe b) -> b -> s -> t
01:15:16 <elliott> :t _right._last
01:15:18 <lambdabot> (Functor (k (Last a -> f (Last b))), Applicative f, Isomorphic k) => k (Last a -> f (Last b)) (Either c (Maybe a) -> f (Either c (Maybe b)))
01:15:27 <elliott> oh heh
01:15:37 <elliott> :t _last
01:15:39 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Isomorphic k) => k (Last a -> f (Last b)) (Maybe a -> f (Maybe b))
01:15:45 <shachaf> > Right "abc" & _right.upon _last ?~ 'x'
01:15:46 <elliott> :t Data.List.Lens._last
01:15:47 <zzo38> For categories with final objects, you will also have Finalize monad. And then, there are various other possible monads depending on the category.
01:15:47 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]'
01:15:47 <lambdabot> with actual ty...
01:15:47 <lambdabot> (Applicative f, Indexed Int k) => k (a -> f a) ([a] -> f [a])
01:15:48 <shachaf> > Right "abc" & _right.upon last ?~ 'x'
01:15:50 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Data.Maybe.Maybe b0'
01:15:51 <lambdabot> with actual...
01:15:56 <elliott> > Right "abc" & _right . Data.List.Lens._last ?~ 'x'
01:15:58 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `Data.List.Lens._last'
01:16:02 <elliott> wtf
01:16:04 <Rawlie> guys how do i go afk?
01:16:12 <elliott> Rawlie: stand up and walk away from your keyboard
01:16:24 <shachaf> > Right "abc" & _right.upon last .~ 'x'
01:16:26 <lambdabot> Right "abx"
01:16:41 <shachaf> elliott: Name conflicts are terrible. :-(
01:16:42 <Rawlie> ...that's not nice
01:16:45 <zzo38> Rawlie: Use the AWAY command in IRC if you need to make a AWAY message for when someone will check.
01:17:01 <Rawlie> k
01:17:03 <Rawlie> ty
01:17:12 <Rawlie> and what's double clicking?
01:17:50 <elliott> what does that question mean...
01:18:02 <elliott> btw my answer was serious
01:18:06 <zzo38> O no, wait, it is purple.
01:18:20 <shachaf> zzo38 makes a good point.
01:18:37 <monqy> HOW TO GO AFK: set your name to RAWLIE|AFK with /NICK RAWLIE|AFK and stay at your keyboard you do not want to leave it
01:18:47 <zzo38> I don't know how to enter the AWAY command with that, but probably there is the menu something.
01:18:49 <kmc> a bold claim
01:19:04 <kmc> Rawlie: eat your keyboard it is the only way
01:19:15 <shachaf> colourful language
01:19:30 <zzo38> There is also sometimes use a client AWAY command too, but is rarely used; I think the syntax is the same as the IRC AWAY command but does not require a colon.
01:19:42 <elliott> afk: always fucking keyboards
01:19:54 <elliott> afk: ampersands = feudal knights
01:20:06 <elliott> afk: altruistic father ksomething
01:20:13 <elliott> why aren't there more k words?????????
01:20:30 <zzo38> <CTCP>AWAY I think client AWAY command is like this?<CTCP>
01:20:32 <Sgeo__> Kings?
01:21:07 <oerjan> Rawlie: i rarely bother to do anything special when leaving the keyboard unless i was just talking to someone
01:21:13 <kmc> "alas: fucked karl"
01:21:17 <shachaf> <CTCP>CTCP help stop ctcping me<CTCP>
01:21:35 <kmc> <CTCP>CCCP<CTCP>
01:21:42 <Rawlie> hang on my room is on fire
01:21:51 <Rawlie> afk
01:21:52 <zzo38> Then please go away
01:22:03 <elliott> shachaf: how about remove _first and _last
01:22:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:22:07 <elliott> the monoid ones
01:22:31 <shachaf> elliott: edwardk likes the conflict
01:22:40 <shachaf> Also take up it in #haskell-lens
01:22:41 <Sgeo__> Is Rawlie mimicking bash or is there actually a scenario?
01:22:49 <shachaf> elliott: "btw we could've used you in there a few minutes ago"
01:22:56 <elliott> what were you doing a few minutes ago
01:23:17 <shachaf> Getting lambdabot in the channel.
01:23:18 <oerjan> rip Rawlie
01:23:22 <shachaf> I had to do it "illegitimately".
01:23:32 <kmc> shachaf: <!DOCTYPE gopher>
01:23:46 <kmc> presumably one of those CTCPs set their computer on fire
01:23:54 <shachaf> kmc: What do you think of upon?
01:24:03 <shachaf> > set (upon (!!4)) 'q' "hello there"
01:24:05 <lambdabot> "hellq there"
01:24:09 <Rawlie> lol my poster got burnt
01:24:12 <kmc> what is it
01:24:18 <shachaf> It turns a getter into a setter.
01:24:40 <Sgeo__> Rawlie, just to confirm, there is presently no fire, correct?
01:24:41 <shachaf> @let setUpon = set . upon
01:24:43 <lambdabot> Defined.
01:24:46 <shachaf> @let setUponTheDeep = set . uponTheDeep
01:24:48 <lambdabot> Defined.
01:24:48 <Rawlie> lolo nah
01:24:49 <Sgeo__> .......shachar what how
01:24:53 <Sgeo__> *shachag
01:24:56 <Sgeo__> shafhac
01:24:58 <Rawlie> my room wasn't on fire was just some paper
01:25:02 <Sgeo__> shachaf.
01:25:08 <zzo38> Rawlie: OK.
01:25:23 <Rawlie> just needed an excuse to try out the afk
01:25:31 <shachaf> > let mylast [x] = x; myLast (x:xs) = myLast xs in setUpon myLast 'q' "hello there"
01:25:33 <lambdabot> "hello there"
01:25:37 <shachaf> Oops.
01:25:44 <oerjan> > set (upon fst) "test" (1,2)
01:25:46 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Char])
01:25:46 <lambdabot> arising from the literal ...
01:25:51 <oerjan> > set (upon fst) "test" ("ok",2)
01:25:52 <Sgeo__> How does upon work?
01:25:53 <lambdabot> ("test",2)
01:25:56 <Sgeo__> It sounds magic
01:26:17 <shachaf> Oh, my last is broken?
01:26:41 <oerjan> > set (upon last) 'a' "bcde"
01:26:43 <lambdabot> "bcda"
01:26:46 <monqy> @source upon
01:26:46 <lambdabot> upon not available
01:26:53 <shachaf> > let myLast [x] = x; myLast (x:xs) = myLast xs in setUpon myLast 'q' "hello there"
01:26:53 -!- Rawlie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:26:54 <Sgeo__> @src upon
01:26:55 <lambdabot> Source not found. My pet ferret can type better than you!
01:26:55 <lambdabot> "hello therq"
01:26:57 <monqy> is it still gross and an ugly hack
01:27:13 <Sgeo__> Is it theoretically possible for it not to be an ugly hack?
01:27:14 <oerjan> > set (upon tail) "oobs" "bcde"
01:27:14 <shachaf> monqy: No, the hack fairy came along and cleaned it up.
01:27:16 <lambdabot> "boobs"
01:27:16 <Sgeo__> I don't get it.
01:27:39 <shachaf> oerjan: Unfortuantely upon (tail.tail) doesn't work.
01:27:44 <shachaf> You need uponTheDeep for that.
01:27:48 <shachaf> kmc: Did you read that book?
01:28:52 <kmc> which one
01:29:06 <shachaf> A Fire uponTheDeep.
01:29:07 <oerjan> shachaf: huh
01:29:14 <shachaf> oerjan: hi
01:29:46 <oerjan> > set (upon (tail.tail)) "obs" "bollocks!"
01:29:48 <lambdabot> "bobs"
01:29:57 <oerjan> ic
01:30:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:30:33 <shachaf> > set (uponTheDeep (tail.tail)) "obs" "bollocks!"
01:30:35 <lambdabot> "boobs"
01:30:37 <Lumpio-> > i (dont . even)
01:30:39 <elliott> bobs
01:30:39 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `dont'
01:30:39 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these:
01:30:39 <lambdabot> `cont' (imported f...
01:30:41 <shachaf> I feel tricked.
01:31:25 <oerjan> :t upon
01:31:26 <lambdabot> (Data.Data.Data s, Typeable a, Applicative f, Indexed Int k) => (s -> a) -> k (a -> f a) (s -> f s)
01:31:31 <oerjan> :t uponTheDeep
01:31:32 <lambdabot> (Data.Data.Data a, Data.Data.Data s, Applicative f, Indexed [Int] k) => (s -> a) -> k (a -> f a) (s -> f s)
01:33:02 <oerjan> > set (upon (fst.snd)) 1 ((3,2),1)
01:33:04 <lambdabot> ((3,2),(1,1))
01:33:13 <oerjan> oh wait
01:33:30 <oerjan> > set (upon (fst.snd)) 1 (1,(2,3))
01:33:33 <lambdabot> (1,(1,3))
01:33:45 <oerjan> well that worked
01:33:48 <elliott> dont try to understand it oerjan. it will kill you
01:33:55 <oerjan> OKAY
01:34:07 <oerjan> you're probably right
01:34:25 <elliott> oerjan: (but you won't really be able to break uponTheDeep)
01:34:51 <oerjan> > 1 :: (Int,Int)
01:34:53 <lambdabot> (1,1)
01:34:56 <oerjan> thought so
01:35:12 <elliott> > Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^. acts
01:35:13 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `Data.Functor.Identity.Identity'
01:35:14 <lambdabot> with `...
01:35:16 <elliott> hm
01:35:18 <elliott> oh
01:35:20 <elliott> > Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^! acts
01:35:21 <lambdabot> Node {rootLabel = [1,2,3], subForest = [Node {rootLabel = [4,7], subForest ...
01:35:36 <elliott> > Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^! traverse.acts
01:35:38 <lambdabot> Ambiguous type variable `t0' in the constraints:
01:35:38 <lambdabot> (GHC.Num.Num t0)
01:35:38 <lambdabot> a...
01:35:41 <elliott> hm
01:35:44 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^. traverse
01:35:45 <lambdabot> Num t => [t]
01:35:53 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^. traverse.acts
01:35:54 <lambdabot> Couldn't match type `Identity' with `[]'
01:35:54 <lambdabot> When using functional dependencies to combine
01:35:54 <lambdabot> Control.Lens.Classes.Effective Identity r (Accessor r),
01:35:57 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^! traverse.acts
01:35:58 <lambdabot> (Num t, Monoid t) => [t]
01:36:03 <elliott> huh
01:36:04 <elliott> ah
01:36:08 <elliott> wait, what
01:36:16 <elliott> :t traverse.acts
01:36:17 <lambdabot> (Applicative f, Traversable t, Control.Lens.Classes.Effective m r f) => (a -> f a) -> t (m a) -> f (t (m a))
01:36:22 <elliott> idgi
01:37:00 <elliott> oh hm
01:37:12 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^! acts
01:37:13 <lambdabot> Num t => Tree [t]
01:37:18 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]]
01:37:20 <lambdabot> Num t => Tree [t]
01:37:39 <elliott> :t folding
01:37:41 <lambdabot> (Applicative g, Foldable f, Gettable g) => (s -> f a) -> LensLike g s t a b
01:37:45 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^. folding acts
01:37:47 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Tree [t0]'
01:37:47 <lambdabot> with actual type `a0 -> f0 a0'
01:37:47 <lambdabot> Expected type: Tree [t0] -> f1 a1
01:37:49 <elliott> :t folded
01:37:50 <lambdabot> (Applicative f1, Foldable f, Gettable f1) => (a -> f1 a) -> f a -> f1 (f a)
01:37:54 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^. folded acts
01:37:56 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Accessor a0 t0'
01:37:56 <lambdabot> with actual type `a0 -> Accessor a0 b0'
01:37:56 <lambdabot> Expected type: Getting a0 (Tree [t1]) t0 a0 b0
01:37:59 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^! folded acts
01:38:00 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Control.Lens.Internal.Effect
01:38:00 <lambdabot> m0 a0 t0'
01:38:00 <lambdabot> with actual type `a0 -> Control.Lens.Internal.Effect m0 a0 b0'
01:38:02 <elliott> :t Node [1,2,3] [Node [4,7] [], Node [8,6,1] [Node [4,2] []]] ^! folding acts
01:38:04 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `Tree [t0]'
01:38:04 <lambdabot> with actual type `a0 -> f0 a0'
01:38:06 <elliott> meh
01:38:06 <lambdabot> Expected type: Tree [t0] -> f1 a1
01:51:37 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:52:13 -!- elliott has joined.
01:52:52 -!- TeruFSX_ has joined.
01:53:12 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
01:58:58 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
02:03:45 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:04:14 -!- elliott has joined.
02:06:17 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:07:16 -!- elliott has joined.
02:15:25 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:16:15 -!- elliott has joined.
02:18:48 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:19:15 -!- elliott has joined.
02:19:23 <Sgeo__> I think maybe I shouldn't allow trolls to melt my brain
02:19:45 <Sgeo__> "Facebook is basically a skin on top of the G+ API." http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/13rxbo/facebook_hq_posters_urge_employees_to_ditch/c76qchb
02:23:05 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:23:11 <kmc> that's not a very good troll
02:23:50 -!- elliott has joined.
02:23:58 <shachaf> kmc: Are you talking about the Reddit post, or Sgeo__ pasting Reddit troll posts into IRC?
02:27:46 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:28:16 -!- elliott has joined.
02:30:33 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:30:59 -!- elliott has joined.
02:31:39 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:32:15 -!- elliott has joined.
02:33:20 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:36:10 -!- elliott has joined.
02:37:27 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:38:17 -!- elliott has joined.
02:39:58 <kmc> sigh ttants: ßβ
02:40:10 <kmc> the reddit post is not a very good troll, i meant
02:40:15 <kmc> elliott: gettin' peered bro
02:40:18 <kmc> might want to look into that
02:41:28 <elliott> :{
02:41:32 <elliott> my internet connection is bad
02:41:49 <kmc> mosh to irssi in ec2 micro instance
02:41:54 <kmc> "the way to go"
02:42:10 <elliott> but i dislike irssi
02:42:23 <kmc> ok
02:42:40 <kmc> woah if you Ctrl+F ß in Chromium, it finds 'ss' too
02:43:04 <shachaf> Yep.
02:43:12 <Bike> holy shit, it does.
02:43:12 <elliott> now kmc
02:43:16 <elliott> if you were to implement a perfect irc client for me
02:43:27 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:43:59 <shachaf> ln -s /usr/bin/less ~/bin/leß
02:44:25 -!- elliott has joined.
02:44:30 <elliott> <elliott> now kmc
02:44:32 <elliott> <elliott> if you were to implement a perfect irc client for me
02:44:54 <shachaf> elliott: That's what he's doing!
02:45:00 <shachaf> "btw a perfect irc client is web based"
02:45:05 <shachaf> "and also doesn't use irc"
02:48:39 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:49:30 -!- elliott has joined.
02:53:30 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:54:32 -!- elliott has joined.
03:01:36 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:02:31 -!- elliott has joined.
03:40:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
03:41:06 <Sgeo__> elliott, monqy Fiora dingdingdingdingdingdingdinganupdatephone
03:41:24 <elliott>
03:41:33 <monqy> i hate phones
04:00:39 <ais523> `quote 1y
04:00:42 <HackEgo> 525) <CakeProphet> monqy: help how do I use lambdabot to send messages to people. [...around half an hour later...] <CakeProphet> @messages <lambdabot> quicksilver said 1y 2m 18d 19h 54m 29s ago: you use @tell
04:01:12 <ais523> OK, I changed my mind, /that/ is the best quote in the qdb
04:01:35 <pikhq_> :D
04:06:43 <kmc> http://www.cs.princeton.edu/picasso/mats/HotspotOverview.pdf has some pretty badass internal details of the hotspot VM
04:08:14 <kmc> it has a pretty clever solution to the problem of signaling to threads that they should stop at a safe point, to garbage collect or whatever
04:08:40 <kmc> each thread tries to read a particular memory address periodically (discarding the result) and to make them stop, you just unmap that page
04:09:59 <kmc> so the instruction that you have to sprinkle all throughout your code is simpler than a read + conditional jump, and doesn't clobber a register
04:10:53 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
04:11:27 -!- olsner has joined.
04:11:43 <shachaf> Hah.
04:13:34 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:15:22 <kmc> on x86 it uses 'test'
04:15:33 <kmc> on SPARC it loads %g0, the "always reads zero" register
04:17:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
04:20:04 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:20:32 -!- elliott has joined.
04:31:54 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
04:38:11 -!- ogrom has joined.
04:45:06 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
04:45:33 -!- elliott has joined.
05:35:03 -!- hagb4rd2 has joined.
05:37:13 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
05:52:35 -!- FreeFull has quit.
06:03:28 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:04:29 -!- elliott has joined.
06:08:29 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:09:30 -!- elliott has joined.
06:09:51 <Fiora> kmc: that's pretty devious, though I guess it sounds like it helps more on non-x86
06:10:17 <Bike> why? i thought the x86 was register-poor, wouldn't it help a ton to not have to clobber one?
06:10:39 <Fiora> cmp [mem], val
06:10:42 <Fiora> doesn't require a register, I think?
06:10:52 <Fiora> and I think untaken jumps are usually free
06:11:33 <Bike> oh, i guess
06:12:04 <shachaf> That doesn't help with the conditional jump.
06:12:17 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:12:28 <Fiora> ... I guess it's okay if the jump is almost never taken but yeah I guess it'd be pretty bad if it's unpredictable
06:13:30 -!- elliott has joined.
06:16:57 -!- augur has joined.
06:22:42 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:23:19 -!- elliott has joined.
06:26:12 <ion> kmc: Heh, interesting.
06:27:51 -!- Gregor has changed nick to Friendship.
06:32:09 <kmc> it should get predicted correctly but it's still work for the branch predictor
06:32:59 <kmc> anyway i think more compact code is part of the point of it
06:33:40 <Fiora> makes sense
06:34:28 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:35:20 -!- elliott has joined.
06:37:24 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:37:50 -!- elliott has joined.
06:41:19 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:41:49 -!- elliott has joined.
06:42:05 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
06:43:43 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:44:30 -!- elliott has joined.
06:45:49 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:46:43 -!- elliott has joined.
06:54:33 <elliott> kmc: hey you know how I keep disconnecting
06:54:44 <elliott> kmc: if I use mosh it will be able to keep my session across those shitty things right
07:00:08 <shachaf> Yep.
07:00:37 <elliott> i'm sold
07:00:47 <elliott> time to install an irssi client on my server
07:00:48 <elliott> is weechat any good
07:01:07 -!- nooga has joined.
07:01:23 <elliott> i don't really like irssi
07:01:28 <elliott> its channel-switching interface makes me sad
07:01:48 <Fiora> I think you can use quassel if you don't like irssi?
07:01:59 <Fiora> though it uses its own protocol I think, so like you don't need ssh/mosh
07:02:00 <elliott> isn't quassel a qt thing
07:02:11 <Fiora> I'm not sure, I've just heard it suggested as an alternative
07:02:17 <Fiora> haven't used it though
07:02:21 <elliott> client-server clients are nice but iirc i tried quassel once and its client UI was awful
07:02:50 * Fiora uses irssi personally
07:03:12 <elliott> my problems with irssi are twofold:
07:03:34 <elliott> i can never get alt+n to work in my terminal so i have to switch with "/w n" (verbose) or "<ESC>n" (awkward)
07:03:36 <elliott> and
07:03:44 <elliott> I hate memorising which number a channel/query is on
07:03:45 <shachaf> Alt+n has always worked for me.
07:03:48 <shachaf> If you don't like it, you can Esc+n
07:04:00 <shachaf> I mean if it doesn't work.
07:04:07 <Bike> you can't get alt numbers working with your terminal, what?
07:04:07 <shachaf> Also you can use the channel name to switch.
07:04:17 <elliott> i already said <ESC>n
07:04:24 <elliott> Bike: well just generall alt+foo does not send ^[foo for me
07:04:31 <shachaf> elliott: Oh.
07:04:33 <Bike> why not?
07:04:34 <nooga> Bike: mac
07:04:34 <Fiora> I've never had problems with alt-n @_@
07:04:36 <elliott> probably it is some Xresource I need to tweak
07:04:39 <elliott> I do not use os x
07:04:49 <elliott> i use urxvt fwiw
07:04:52 <Bike> how mysterious.
07:04:53 <shachaf> I don't either.
07:04:57 <shachaf> I used urxvt with irssi for years.
07:05:09 <Fiora> is this like, the problem where the window manager captures alt-N? I remember once having issue with it using the alt keys to select which terminal tab to use instead of sending it
07:05:27 <Fiora> I think I solved it by not using tabs
07:05:30 <elliott> i think it is just irssi not interpreting alt as meta
07:05:31 <Fiora> which isn't really a solution but
07:05:35 <elliott> maybe it spontaneously fixed itself sometime since let me test
07:05:54 -!- dajfsa has joined.
07:05:56 <dajfsa> nope
07:05:59 <dajfsa> alt+<number> inputs <number?
07:06:01 <dajfsa> *>
07:06:06 <shachaf> help
07:06:08 <shachaf> How?
07:06:12 <dajfsa> well it just does
07:06:17 <dajfsa> oh right I forgot I also hate irssi's default colour scheme
07:06:28 <dajfsa> and the fact that you can't copy text from irssi without it getting horribly mangled, whitespace-wise
07:08:13 <dajfsa> maybe there is some secret way to copy text reasonably
07:08:15 <dajfsa> that everybody is hiding from me
07:09:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:09:35 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:09:35 -!- dajfsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:10:04 -!- elliott has joined.
07:10:54 -!- dajfsa has joined.
07:12:17 <fizzie> I tried both Quassel and WeeChat and neither really "did it", but I've heard both suggested.
07:12:49 -!- augur has joined.
07:13:28 <fizzie> (Also, I <esc>n even though alt-n tends to work most of the time.)
07:14:18 <fizzie> For some reason I do use alt-a though, as opposed to <esc>a. (Except on the phone, which doesn't have an alt.)
07:14:25 <elliott> fizzie: do you use urxvt
07:14:28 <fizzie> Yes.
07:15:01 <monqy> i use urxvt and alt-n and alt-a work for me all the time.....................
07:15:40 <elliott> can i have both of yrrr Xresources/Xdefaults files
07:15:42 <elliott> or at least
07:15:44 <elliott> the urxvt parts of them
07:15:53 <fizzie> Sure, but there's nothing interesting in it.
07:16:02 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/XOQC
07:16:25 -!- ais523 has quit.
07:16:54 <fizzie> (Incidentally, talking about alt-a, I really hate active_window_ignore_refnum; fortunately it can be turned off.)
07:17:12 <elliott> what is active_window_ignore_refnum
07:17:48 <fizzie> It's a toggle for the thing they did for alt-a, to make it switch to the last-activated window within those that have the highest activity level.
07:17:55 <elliott> also is your colour scheme nice, maybe I should steal it
07:18:30 <fizzie> The old behaviour was to switch to the lowest-numbered such window, which I liked, since it was immediately obvious (from the activity list) which window it was going to switch to.
07:19:22 <monqy> my colorscheme is just it gets rid of all the backgrounds (they're black), and the foregrounds become purple
07:19:43 <monqy> oh and i do some stuff with the timestamp
07:19:48 <monqy> colours and stuff
07:19:56 <fizzie> Did you mean irssi or urxvt colors?
07:20:01 <fizzie> The latter are just the CGA colors.
07:20:18 <fizzie> (At home I have a bit brighter blues, but it seems I haven't updated this work box.)
07:20:42 <elliott> i am talking about rxvt colours
07:20:47 <fizzie> Right.
07:20:49 <monqy> oh
07:20:54 <elliott> i use Deewiant's blue
07:21:03 <monqy> i use whatever the defaults are
07:21:04 <fizzie> I may have copied it from him too.
07:21:09 <monqy> apparently it makes my blues dark
07:21:12 <monqy> but im fine with that
07:21:56 <elliott> URxvt.color4: #0040ff
07:21:57 <elliott> URxvt.color12: #5c5cff
07:21:58 <elliott> the One True Blue
07:22:03 <fizzie> I seem to have #2222cc for dark blue and #6666ff for bright blue. I think I just added some numbers to my old blue.
07:22:29 <fizzie> I don't think I am terribly attached to the CGA palette, it was just so... regular.
07:22:42 <fizzie> It's all 0s, 5s, as or fs.
07:23:18 <fizzie> (Though the brown is admittedly not quite in the PATTERN.)
07:23:42 <elliott> is there a way to get an xchat-style channel list sidebar in irssi. i realise asking for this makes me hopelessly uncool
07:24:37 <nooga> lol
07:25:00 <elliott> nooga: :(
07:25:06 <fizzie> I think I've seen scripts or plugins for that kind of stuff.
07:28:05 <fizzie> Oh my, nicklist.pl writes the nick list to a whole other terminal. That's very screwy.
07:28:16 <monqy> crazy
07:28:26 <elliott> fizzie: i dont want that..........
07:28:39 <monqy> why do you need a nick list anyway
07:28:47 <elliott> i dont want a nicklist !
07:28:53 <elliott> i want a channel list so i see the numbers things are on and stuff
07:28:58 <monqy> oh
07:28:58 <fizzie> Right, I was just looking at it since it's a sidebar too.
07:29:05 <monqy> i misread channel list as nick list...
07:29:25 <elliott> well fizzie said nicklist.pl
07:29:52 <elliott> fizzie: do you have some secret tip for copying irc text from a console irc client without it inserting lots of spaces where it wraps the lines etc.
07:29:56 <elliott> this is v. important for me esp. for quote-adding
07:30:03 <kmc> "Bud Light Platinum has 137 calories per 12 ounce serving, 8 fewer than a regular Budweiser."
07:31:33 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:31:34 -!- dajfsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:32:11 -!- elliott has joined.
07:32:20 <elliott> <elliott> fizzie: do you have some secret tip for copying irc text from a console irc client without it inserting lots of spaces where it wraps the lines etc.
07:32:23 <elliott> <elliott> this is v. important for me esp. for quote-adding
07:32:26 -!- dajfsa has joined.
07:33:44 <kmc> tail the log?
07:34:08 <monqy> copy it one line at a time!!
07:34:18 <monqy> extend your terminal to fit it all on at once!!!!!
07:34:20 <fizzie> elliott: Sometimes I paste to "fmt -t -w 1000".
07:34:40 <fizzie> (And then recopy from the output.)
07:34:53 <fizzie> (Most often I just copy manually one line at a time, though.)
07:36:19 <elliott> guys
07:36:19 -!- dajfsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:36:22 <elliott> all these options seem... pretty bad??
07:36:39 <fizzie> The fmt trick is kind of nasty for multiple lines since the input gets mixed with the output, and "cat > tmp.txt; fmt -t -w tmp.txt" is really too much to bother with.
07:37:05 <fizzie> Tailing the log is possibly most sensible, except I don't have irssi logging anything, and the bouncer's log format is the stupidest.
07:37:25 <elliott> does irssi have log-tail functionality (tm)
07:37:26 -!- dajfsa has joined.
07:37:39 <shachaf>
07:37:44 <shachaf> help
07:37:47 <shachaf>
07:38:12 <Friendship> Sorry, I can't help you without paying royalties to shachafco.
07:38:22 <shachaf> help
07:38:26 <shachaf> Where's Gregor?
07:38:48 <fizzie> You could bind a command/key to doing /exec tail logfile-of-the-channel, that'd be like so modern.
07:38:49 <Friendship> Gregor just wants to be your friend. Ship. Friendship.
07:39:24 <kmc> if you control-f for ℠ it will find 'sm' as well
07:39:34 <kmc> obviously they are doing some kind of normalization
07:39:38 <kmc> but which kind?!?
07:39:59 <elliott> fizzie: but doesn't exec give unhelpful output
07:40:01 <elliott> like won't it still wrap
07:41:24 <fizzie> I don't know, really.
07:41:33 <fizzie> Maybe it wraps too.
07:42:09 <fizzie> Sure does.
07:42:21 <elliott> is there a kind of /exec that expands into the input line
07:42:23 <elliott> that could work out
07:43:06 <fizzie> There's an exec that spews on-channel, but it's kind of risky maybe?
07:43:49 <fizzie> You could write a quote-adding script that lets you grab quotes by nick-matching and regexes in the recent happenings of the current window.
07:43:51 <elliott> right, well I want to combine stuff into one line
07:43:52 <elliott> edit it etc.
07:43:54 <fizzie> There are bots with that kind of stuff.
07:43:57 <elliott> well I use it for things other than quote-matching...
07:47:49 -!- atriq has joined.
07:47:52 <elliott> monqy: do you really copy every line separately. that must be awful
07:48:15 <monqy> for quote adding?
07:48:28 <monqy> either that or i stretch my terminal
07:48:37 <elliott> hugeterm reasons??
07:48:43 <monqy> most of the time i just do sloppy quoting
07:48:54 <elliott> oh hey
07:48:59 <elliott> do either of you know what i need to do to get clickable links in irssi
07:49:03 <elliott> clickable can include like modifier+click
07:49:04 <elliott> and by irssi
07:49:05 <elliott> i mean urxvt
07:49:24 <monqy> i have those
07:49:45 <monqy> URxvt.perl-ext-common: default,matcher
07:49:45 <monqy> URxvt.urlLauncher: /usr/bin/chromium
07:49:45 <monqy> URxvt.matcher.button: 1
07:50:01 <elliott> fizzie: can you corroborate
07:51:34 <fizzie> I haven't done clickables. But that seems very reasonable.
07:51:43 <fizzie> I haven't used any of the berl extensions, in fact.
07:58:43 -!- Taneb has joined.
08:01:14 -!- atriq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
08:01:29 -!- Taneb has changed nick to atriq.
08:03:59 <atriq> I like today's Freefall
08:06:39 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:06:39 -!- dajfsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:07:09 -!- dajfsa has joined.
08:07:41 -!- elliott has joined.
08:09:08 <Deewiant> elliott: To add more confusion, my urxvt stuff: http://sprunge.us/AHVP
08:09:41 <elliott> Deewiant: You don't use Deewiant blue?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
08:10:03 <Deewiant> On my laptop I evidently do
08:10:25 <elliott> #0060ff =/= #0040ff
08:10:37 <Deewiant> That sprunge is from my desktop
08:10:43 <Deewiant> I figured it'd be more up-to-date
08:10:57 <elliott> Help. :(
08:11:28 <Deewiant> It might be due to better visibility with redshift or something
08:12:03 <elliott> I feel betrayed, man.
08:12:10 <fizzie> Deewiant: You move around so fast that's an issue?!
08:12:21 <Deewiant> Quite
08:12:24 * elliott was thinking the same.
08:12:26 <fizzie> Im-pressive.
08:14:07 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:14:07 -!- dajfsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:14:29 -!- dajfsa has joined.
08:14:38 <Deewiant> (Actually http://jonls.dk/redshift/ )
08:19:50 -!- elliott has joined.
08:19:51 -!- dajfsa has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:20:55 <elliott> is there any documentation for the urxvt perl buttons
08:21:03 <elliott> er
08:21:04 <elliott> perl extensions
08:21:47 <Deewiant> man urxvtperl
08:23:57 <elliott> that doesn't document underlineURLs :(
08:25:15 <Deewiant> Maybe it's a red herring option that actually does nothing
08:25:21 <elliott> mmm
08:25:23 <elliott> but I want no underlining!
08:25:47 <Deewiant> So don't set it?
08:25:48 -!- dajfsa has joined.
08:25:59 <elliott> but if it's a red herring then it'll be on by default
08:26:02 -!- dajfsa has quit (Client Quit).
08:26:08 <Deewiant> It's part of mark-yank-urls, it seems
08:26:17 <Deewiant> my $underlineURLs = $term->x_resource ('underlineURLs') || 'false';
08:26:18 -!- dajfsa has joined.
08:26:23 <dajfsa> woo I got alt working
08:26:32 <dajfsa> by way of modifier: mod1
08:26:36 <dajfsa> or rather -mod mod1
08:26:50 -!- dajfsa has quit (Client Quit).
08:27:30 <elliott> hmm, I set URxvt.underlineURLs: false but the URLs are underlined still
08:28:59 <fizzie> You can configure matcher's rendering with URxvt.matcher.rend.N but that's undocumented.
08:29:47 <Deewiant> I removed the code from mark-yank-urls and underlining seems to still happen, so I guess matcher does that nowadays.
08:30:03 <elliott> this does not make me terribly happy
08:30:11 <fizzie> It does. You can google for urxvt.matcher.rend.0 to see examples on how to configure it.
08:30:34 <fizzie> I don't know exactly what to write there for "no special formatting" though.
08:30:41 <elliott> oh well
08:30:43 <elliott> I will just live with it
08:31:04 <Deewiant> Welp, I can get rid of an on_line_update in mark-yank-urls then. I guess that's positive.
08:31:48 <elliott> Deewiant: That's an inaccurate away message *and* an inaccurate VERSION.
08:32:31 <Deewiant> Inaccurate VERSIONs are a bit of security by obscurity and I think my away message is just fine.
08:32:57 <elliott> well you are not actually away! anyway I was trying to figure out the latest irssi version
08:33:01 <elliott> apparently it's um
08:33:04 <elliott> the same as it was in 2010
08:33:19 <Deewiant> I'm on weechat so that wouldn't've helped you anyway
08:33:30 <Deewiant> And I reserve the right to be actually away at any moment
08:33:37 <fizzie> "Irssi: the client of the future".
08:33:45 <fizzie> Last news from Dec 26th, 2010.
08:33:57 <elliott> Deewiant: IMO you should try to sell me on weechat > irssi
08:34:04 <elliott> making decisions is hard 'n stuff
08:34:34 <fizzie> I think you should use Irssi2 instead.
08:34:35 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:34:43 <fizzie> http://www.irssi2.org/ <- looks impressive, eh?
08:35:31 <Deewiant> weechat just seems less ad hoc to me, it has hierarchical configuration settings and everything
08:37:11 -!- elliott has joined.
08:37:38 <elliott> Deewiant: does weechat have a nice solution to the horrendous problem of Copying Things
08:37:50 <Deewiant> Not that I know of/care
08:38:00 <Deewiant> I rarely Copy lots of Things
08:39:24 -!- ais523 has joined.
08:39:24 <elliott> but what about when there is Text
08:39:27 <elliott> that you wish to Copy
08:39:34 <elliott> but lo it is Wrapped over a multitude of Lines
08:39:40 <elliott> and Copying it would produce Displeasing Whitespace
08:40:04 <Deewiant> There pretty much never is, especially with my window widths
08:40:04 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:41:01 <Deewiant> When there is and I need to Copy it to some place that is particular about Displeasing Whitespace, I don't mind an intermediate Copy to a text editor
08:41:17 <coppro> elliott: Displeasing should not be capitalized
08:42:57 <atriq> I wonder if you can make that Stack type I wrote yesterday an Applicative
08:46:08 <atriq> I can write an instance, but does it fulfill the laws?
08:50:07 <atriq> Laws fulfilled!
08:52:34 <atriq> I don't think it's a Monad, though
08:56:54 -!- elliott has joined.
08:59:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
09:04:17 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:04:43 -!- elliott has joined.
09:10:33 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
09:12:11 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:12:42 -!- elliott has joined.
09:13:39 -!- elliott has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:18:15 -!- elliott has joined.
09:19:16 <elliott> irssi users: is there a way to get something like "/msg foo bar" to not spawn a new query window
09:19:19 <elliott> e.g. for nickserv
09:20:10 <Deewiant> http://irssi.org/beginner/#c1
09:21:43 <elliott> hah, Deewiant
09:21:46 <elliott> as if I would read things before asking a question
09:22:22 <elliott> ugh
09:22:25 <elliott> this does all seem like a mess
09:22:27 <elliott> time to try weechat
09:22:28 -!- elliott has quit (Client Quit).
09:23:51 -!- elliott has joined.
09:24:01 <elliott> nice, another client that does not have /{cs,ns} by default :(
09:24:21 <elliott> and somehow typing into weechat is laggier than irssi... maybe I should try mosh prediction
09:24:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
09:24:48 <Sgeo__> elliott, Fiora
09:25:20 <atriq> atriq?
09:25:21 <Sgeo__> The bot I made for a Homestuck channel announced an update, but it seemed like a false alarm, then announced again, and the update was real
09:25:26 <elliott> wow. weechat has literally the ugliest highlight colours ever.
09:25:34 <Sgeo__> atriq, forgot, sorry
09:25:37 <shachaf> elliott
09:26:12 <Fiora> another update in one day? wow
09:26:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
09:27:02 <Sgeo__> Phantom_Hoover, update
09:27:18 <elliott> ugh I would just switch back to irssi now if I could find a buffer list thing
09:27:34 <shachaf> "your memory"
09:27:42 -!- sebbu has joined.
09:28:03 <shachaf> elliphontt never forgets
09:28:19 <elliott> fuck that
09:29:33 <elliott> maybe http://anti.teamidiot.de/static/nei/*/Code/Irssi/adv_windowlist.pl is what I want
09:29:55 <Phantom_Hoover> man this update is intriguing
09:30:07 <elliott> guys can we focus on my IRC client problems? thanks? assholes?
09:30:11 <elliott> ais523: please kick everyone
09:30:24 <fizzie> Ooh, you've found an awl.
09:30:27 <elliott> ais523: btw http://esolangs.org/wiki/Computing_crystal is somehow even more of a mess than it started out as
09:30:33 <elliott> fizzie: is this a thing
09:30:55 <Phantom_Hoover> don't you use it for leatherworking
09:31:10 <shachaf> elliott: can we focus on my problems instead?
09:31:25 <elliott> no
09:31:57 <shachaf> unsafeCoerce elliott :: Int
09:32:24 <elliott> fizzie: what is the thing
09:32:52 <fizzie> elliott: It seems to do the same kind of thing as nicklist.pl -- it has a fifo mode and a screen-based mode. It might even work.
09:33:23 <shachaf> elliott: zomg mconcat gives you mempty
09:33:29 <elliott> fizzie: a fifo-mode??
09:33:31 <elliott> what is all this fanciness
09:33:47 <elliott> I just want a sidebar or heck even a horizontal list of all the places I am in
09:33:48 <elliott> and the number they are on
09:33:55 <shachaf> -F -p PRIO for SCHED_FIFO only as root
09:34:04 <shachaf> elliott: Don't run your IRC client as root!
09:34:30 <fizzie> elliott: The fifo mode is when you want the list thing in a whole 'nother terminal.
09:34:52 <fizzie> elliott: The screen mode is when it hackitudes it inside the same terminal, it's also a kludge.
09:35:24 <elliott> fizzie: OK but... can't it just show on the status bar or something.
09:35:25 <elliott> Come on, I'm not asking for much here.
09:36:37 <fizzie> I don't think a very long list would fit in a single line.
09:36:48 <shachaf> elliott: Is it just me or should mconcat :: Tree a -> a?
09:37:02 <shachaf> "who needs associativity"
09:37:09 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:37:30 -!- augur has joined.
09:37:38 <elliott> fizzie: I'm not in that many channels, man.
09:37:51 <elliott> 9 and I don't even care about most of them. Plus like five queries I care about sometimes.
09:39:27 <fizzie> Anyway, the "screen mode" might work for you, even if it is based on just talking control codes directly, since irssi doesn't provide real windows split that way.
09:41:32 <elliott> what's with screenshots like e.g. http://www.die-welt.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/irssi-awl.png where you can see a bunch of windows listed horizontally then
09:42:21 <oklofok> ooh queries ima query elliott lol :DD
09:43:06 <fizzie> That's not a sidebar. But I suppose you can have multi-line statusbars like that, that probably works.
09:43:26 <oklofok> i just queried elliott :D
09:44:26 <elliott> fizzie: well yes if I say "horizontal" that probably implies not a status bar...
09:46:07 <fizzie> You could go with one of them scripts. I didn't know awl did it that way, I thought it faked a sidebar since the code looked so crumminy.
09:46:46 <elliott> fizzie: I'm a bit worried by "one of them scripts". are you saying there are multiple versions of this monstrosity
09:47:04 <fizzie> There's chanact and AWL, probably others too.
09:48:07 <elliott> hmm i like how alt+a cycles back to the channel i was originally on if i press it enough
09:48:26 <elliott> this is in weechat but i presume irssi behaves the smae
09:48:28 <elliott> *same
09:48:46 <fizzie> Oh, and wlstat.
09:49:02 <elliott> oh gosh this chanact thing looks complicated
09:49:14 <elliott> why cna't this be simple ???? help me fizzie
09:49:20 <fizzie> Both wlstat and AWL are I think derivatives of chanact.
09:49:56 <elliott> : (
09:49:59 <elliott> how do i do bold in weechat
09:50:01 <elliott> how do i do bold in irssi
09:50:07 <elliott> ^B isn't working!!!
09:50:10 <fizzie> And irssi's alt-a stops moving if there are no windows with activity.
09:50:16 <fizzie> ^B works for me.
09:50:46 <elliott> but what about when I'm done with the activity and want to see the channel I was idling on again
09:51:07 <fizzie> It just doesn't go anywhere.
09:51:11 <fizzie> It is a sad.
09:51:26 <elliott> that's not good !!!!
09:51:28 <elliott> maybe i'll stick with weechat
09:53:18 -!- ais523 has quit.
09:58:08 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
09:58:46 <elliott> test
10:00:09 <elliott> q
10:00:11 <lambdabot> hi
10:00:24 <elliott> q2
10:03:18 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8).
10:13:10 -!- elliott has joined.
10:13:37 <elliott> Deewiant: do you happen to know what determines the ordering of bars i.e. why status comes before input (comes before buffer, in my configuration) even though they all just have position = bottom
10:36:58 <fizzie> Irssi or weewee?
10:37:14 <elliott> fizzie: Yes, Nintendo WiiChat
10:37:20 <elliott> todo: come up with better dumb names for weechat
10:37:58 <fizzie> Irssi has a numeric "position" in addition to bottom/top "placement".
10:38:05 <fizzie> Don't know about the other.
10:38:16 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:41:05 -!- augur has joined.
10:54:55 <elliott> ion: (FSVO.)
10:55:19 <elliott> The Classique Cross-Channel Talk
10:55:50 <ion> ^Cble bolde
10:56:13 <elliott> q
10:56:18 <ion> elliott: weechat.bar.*.priority?
10:56:22 <elliott> This is so much worse than ^B. WeeChat sucks.
10:56:26 <elliott> ion: I tried that but it didn't seem to do anything?
10:56:33 <ion> Dunno then.
10:56:59 <elliott> Oh, I lie.
10:57:33 <shachaf> ^B = the best?
10:57:43 <elliott> q
10:57:47 <elliott> q
10:57:48 <Deewiant> elliott: weechat.bar.status.items?
10:57:51 <shachaf> hi
10:57:59 <elliott> Deewiant: It wasn't that but I got it working.
10:58:13 <shachaf> hi
10:58:14 <elliott> I am still a bit suspicious of all this. irssi seems more... trustworthy, somehow.
10:58:16 <shachaf> hi
10:58:26 <shachaf> elliott: "i tried weechat but i h8d it"
10:58:40 <Deewiant> elliott: I recommend the iset script for configuring things, by the way; makes it easy to browse
10:59:41 <elliott> Deewiant: OK, I need to figure out how to convey the horror and disgust I feel for the idea of installing a plugin to make configuring the software I'm installing the plugin for easier.
10:59:51 <elliott> I think I can never do that.
11:00:24 * Sgeo__ wonders if Urbanoids is under any particular license, or if the code is sort of available only to be looked at and not to be used
11:00:50 <Deewiant> I installed 'configuration mania' for firefox about 10 years ago so I'm used to that kind of thing.
11:01:50 <Sgeo__> setSomeProperties(1,3,6);
11:02:00 <Sgeo__> That's... very "clear" code
11:02:08 <Sgeo__> http://www.javaonthebrain.com/java/noids/noids.java
11:03:42 <fizzie> int i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,di,dj,dk,dl,ai,mi,mj,counter=0,gameState=0,nextState=0,seed=1; /* yet it starts so well! */
11:04:18 <Deewiant> That reminds me of a typical robocode bot / sudoku solver
11:04:51 <fizzie> Those are all class members, even though the one-letter ones seem to be used mostly as loop indices and the like.
11:05:04 <fizzie> I suppose it's so that one doesn't have to keep declaring them over and over again.
11:05:05 <shachaf> fizzie: help
11:05:13 <shachaf> fizzie: Did you turn into value-level edwardk?
11:06:04 <Sgeo__> I always loved JavaOnTheBrain, never figured I'd be mocking his code.
11:06:06 <fizzie> shachaf: I'll let you know that n-=16; i*=2; o=m; m+=i; so there.
11:07:08 <Sgeo__> The game is still as fun as it always has been
11:07:25 * Sgeo__ vaguely imagines making a level editor
11:09:34 <Sgeo__> I have not the faintest guess as to what droidTX droidTY droidBX and droidBY are
11:10:05 <Deewiant> droid{top,bottom}{x,y}
11:10:24 <Sgeo__> Droids have tops and bottoms?
11:10:34 <shachaf> Dr. Oidby
11:11:52 <fizzie> Sgeo__: It does seem like a box for it.
11:12:15 <Sgeo__> Huh. Weird, because they're pretty much all the same size, I think
11:12:27 <Sgeo__> At least in all levels that I've seen, all droids are the same size
11:12:40 <fizzie> Sgeo__: Given that if (((l==1)&&(objY[i]<=objPar2[i]))||((l==2)&&(objY[i]>=objPar4[i]))||((l==3)&&(objX[i]<=objPar1[i]))||((l==4)&&(objX[i]>=objPar3[i]))) test -- since, you know, droidTX/TY/BX/BY are the objPar1..4 for droids.
11:12:44 <Deewiant> droidTX[i][j]=24*infile.read()+94; droidTY[i][j]=24*infile.read()+94; droidBX[i][j]=24*infile.read()+94; droidBY[i][j]=24*infile.read()+94;
11:12:59 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
11:13:31 <Sgeo__> I have not the faintest idea what tempback is for
11:13:32 -!- copumpkin has joined.
11:14:24 <fizzie> A temporary buffer for a background?
11:14:48 <fizzie> It's size is related to width times height of something, at least.
11:15:22 <Deewiant> And values from it are used to calculate values of map[i][j]
11:16:17 <fizzie> That "(256+tempback[o])&255" is the best, though.
11:16:42 <Deewiant> n=((256+tempback[o])&255)+256*((256+tempback[o+1])&255); n=(n>>p)&127; map[i][j++]=n; in full.
11:17:08 <Deewiant> Or n=100+((n>>p)&31); instead of the second statement there, if i != 0.
11:17:25 <Sgeo__> I think i is the level number
11:17:36 <Sgeo__> As in, each map is divided into level
11:17:38 <Sgeo__> levels
11:17:43 <Sgeo__> The surface, then sewers, etc.
11:17:45 <fizzie> It's the number of a "layer".
11:18:08 <atriq> "Zombies are one of the scary monsters that inhabit Minecraft worlds"
11:18:10 <Sgeo__> Ok, so that's what they're called
11:18:13 <atriq> BBC News website
11:18:47 <fizzie> I suppose the (256+x)&255 is some kind of a superstitious thing to make negative values of x positive.
11:19:13 <Sgeo__> Going to be fun to write code to actually output this file format
11:19:33 <Sgeo__> Input is .. I could just sort of copy this code, translate it almost blindly
11:20:34 <fizzie> "j=8191; // Weird"
11:20:39 <fizzie> The code makes me smily.
11:20:49 <elliott> atriq: why is the BBC News website talking about minecraft
11:21:04 <fizzie> (Sure, it's just a label for the sound effect, but still.)
11:21:39 <atriq> elliott, who knows
11:21:55 <atriq> They also talk about gangnam style and floods affecting the north of England
11:21:57 <Deewiant> elliott: To further infringe on your sensibilities, I recommend the script for installing scripts, weeget.
11:24:48 <fizzie> Deewiant: But how do you install that script!
11:24:59 <fizzie> Is there a script specifically for installing weeget?
11:25:25 <Deewiant> I think you need to do it manually, otherwise you're just adding extra steps to the whole process.
11:26:17 <fizzie> For the record, irssi's tips page recommends /alias commands that update irssi scripts via rsync.
11:27:08 <fizzie> Either one that does a full rsync into ~/.irssi/scripts/official/ or another that just does rsync --existing into ~/.irssi/scripts/ if you don't want all of them.
11:27:14 <fizzie> It's almost like having a script-management script.
11:28:03 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
11:28:20 <Deewiant> I reiterate my stance that weechat seems less ad hoc overall.
11:32:17 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving).
11:34:24 <Sgeo__> It's storing entrance and exit positions as a single number?
11:34:24 <fizzie> I reiterate my stance that the name is stupider.
11:36:50 <fizzie> Sgeo__: I think it's just that exit from one layer is an entrance to another. It does read two pairs of coordinates for each exit; the exitPos and the exitToPos.
11:37:08 <Deewiant> Fortunately I'm happy with programs with names like "urxvt", "git", "ssh", "zip", and whatnot, so I'm not particularly bothered by names.
11:37:24 <fizzie> The entrancePos on layer layerParent[i] is the exitToPos on layer i.
11:37:33 <fizzie> Those names aren't stupid.
11:37:47 <Sgeo__> I'm saying the Pos itself is one number rather than 2
11:38:14 <fizzie> Sgeo__: Oh. Well, sure, why not?
11:38:17 <Sgeo__> Hmm, I think...
11:38:31 <Deewiant> fizzie: "git" /means/ "stupid".
11:38:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:38:41 <fizzie> Deewiant: But it /isn't/ stupid.
11:38:43 <elliott> "git" does not mean "stupid".
11:38:51 <elliott> Get off my lawn.
11:39:29 <Deewiant> git - the stupid content tracker
11:39:51 <Sgeo__> I'm sure there are some limitations as to what is in an allowable level so that this makes sense, but don't quite see them
11:40:52 <fizzie> I don't know what is your problem with the positions. It's just y*w+x, it's even decomposed back with newPos%mapW and newPos/mapW to go into objX and objY.
11:41:02 <Sgeo__> objX[0]=24*(newPos%mapW)-2;
11:41:02 <Sgeo__> objY[0]=24*(newPos/mapW)-2;
11:41:55 <Sgeo__> Oh, you noted that
11:42:40 <elliott> Deewiant: That doesn't make "git" mean "stupid".
11:43:11 <fizzie> 1. rotter, dirty dog, rat, skunk, stinker, stinkpot, bum, puke, crumb, lowlife, scum bag, so-and-so, git -- (a person who is deemed to be despicable or contemptible; "only a rotter would do that"; "kill the rat"; "throw the bum out"; "you cowardly little pukes!"; "the British call a contemptible person a `git'")
11:43:12 <Deewiant> It's intended as meaning "stupid", and it's often used to mean "stupid".
11:43:17 <fizzie> Those are some nice words there.
11:43:21 <fizzie> You so-and-so.
11:43:26 <Deewiant> I cite the infallible wiktionary!
11:43:33 <Deewiant> 2. (UK, slang, pejorative) A silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying or childish person.
11:43:44 <elliott> I've never heard someone say "git" with just the connotation of "stupid" and, I mean, it's our word; sure, that is one of its connotations, but it has many others besides.
11:43:57 <elliott> Also that has a "2." in front of it and a bunch of other adjectives in the same sentence, come on.
11:44:16 <elliott> ANYWAY the solution is clearly to destroy git.
11:45:21 <fizzie> Sgeo__: Incidentally, I wouldn't go ahead and write exitPos[i][j]=infile.read()+4+(layerW[i]+8)*(infile.read()+4); even though Java does guarantee left-to-right.
11:45:47 <Deewiant> I would. Although I wouldn't write that for other reasons.
11:45:54 <fizzie> "It is recommended that code not rely crucially on this specification." (JLS)
11:46:35 <fizzie> Uh, where "this specification" refers only to the details of the evaluation order.
11:46:52 <fizzie> I don't think they disrecommend relying on the whole of the Java Language Specification.
11:46:59 <elliott> I like the more liberal interpretation.
11:47:03 <Deewiant> Me too.
11:47:26 -!- atriq has joined.
11:48:00 <Sgeo__> Don't entirely understand why it forces the first 40 droids to be of type 0
11:48:33 <Sgeo__> I mean, why not do just what the map says, and if the map says the first 40 are 0, that's it
11:48:42 <Sgeo__> Rather than enforcing it in code
11:49:41 <shachaf> ion: You like writing benchmarks, right?
11:50:19 <ion> Nothing gives me more pleasure.
11:51:08 <fizzie> Sgeo__: It doesn't seem to me like it would do that. It just sets the types of those to zero that weren't in the map.
11:51:42 <fizzie> Sgeo__: j's still at k (number of droips) after the drop-reading loop, after all; it's just from k .. 39 that get set to 0.
11:52:30 <Sgeo__> Ah
11:52:32 <fizzie> In other words, it's just initializing the leftover elements of droidType to 0. (Sure, they'd be zero anyway.)
12:03:08 <elliott> Deewiant: How do I, like, enable IRC logs?
12:03:14 <elliott> Or does "the Whee" do them by default.
12:03:25 <elliott> (I sort of skimmed the manual!!)
12:03:34 <fizzie> You! A manual!
12:04:06 <Deewiant> elliott: http://www.weechat.org/files/doc/stable/weechat_user.en.html#logger_plugin
12:06:57 <elliott> Deewiant: I saw that but it looked complicated. :(
12:08:38 <Deewiant> In short I think it's done by default
12:08:44 <Deewiant> But you probably want to set logger.file.path and logger.file.mask
12:12:09 <elliott> "%h/logs/".
12:12:12 <elliott> I wonder where that is.
12:12:20 <elliott> Is that just ~/logs?
12:14:40 <Deewiant> It's the weechat directory IIRC, ~/.weechat/logs or something
12:14:54 <Deewiant> logger.file.path
12:14:56 <Deewiant> description: path for WeeChat log files; "%h" at beginning of string is replaced by WeeChat home ("~/.weechat" by default); date specifiers are permitted (see man strftime)
12:15:11 <Deewiant> (Source: what I linked to you 11 minutes ago)
12:17:28 <elliott> Wow, you read that?
12:18:08 <Deewiant> I grepped it for %h.
12:18:42 <elliott> That is cheating.
12:19:00 <Deewiant> If you'd told me that it was in logger.file.path I might've just scrolled down to that.
12:20:47 <elliott> That is *definitely* cheating.
12:28:42 -!- carado has joined.
12:32:37 -!- ais523 has joined.
12:51:49 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:57:31 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
12:57:36 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
12:57:52 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:01:32 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
13:10:20 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:10:24 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:10:25 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:11:30 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:11:34 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:11:34 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:12:09 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:12:13 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:12:13 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:12:48 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:12:52 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:12:52 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:13:19 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:13:23 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:13:24 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:14:03 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:14:07 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:14:08 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:14:42 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:14:46 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:14:47 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:15:35 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:15:36 -!- glogbot has joined.
13:15:36 -!- glogbackup has left.
13:15:40 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:15:40 -!- esowiki has joined.
13:15:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:26:41 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
13:28:00 -!- nooga has joined.
13:31:14 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:35:02 <atriq> Huh
13:35:13 <atriq> Apparently I qualified for the second round of the maths challenge
13:35:47 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:36:40 <oklofok> what's that?
13:36:48 <atriq> A maths competition
13:36:58 <atriq> http://www.mathcomp.leeds.ac.uk/individual-competitions/senior-kangaroo/
13:38:28 <Phantom_Hoover> fuck you for mentioning the maths challenge
13:38:43 <Phantom_Hoover> even not getting into cambridge wasn't as painful
13:38:47 <atriq> You sound somewhat bitter
13:39:11 <shachaf> What's a maths challenge?
13:39:25 <shachaf> Is it like a math challenge?
13:39:33 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
13:39:36 <Phantom_Hoover> it's the plural form
13:40:00 <shachaf> What's the difference between "maths challenge" and "math challenges"?
13:40:14 <oklofok> first is a single challenge with multiple maths
13:40:17 <atriq> A maths challenge is one challenge, many maths
13:40:29 <atriq> Math challenges are many challenges, one math
13:40:33 <atriq> Eg, subtraction
13:41:15 <shachaf> What about maths challenges?
13:41:18 <shachaf> That sounds tricky.
13:41:54 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
13:42:35 <atriq> I presume you wouldn't do multiple maths challenges simultaneously
13:42:45 <Phantom_Hoover> subtraction, addition, multiplication
13:42:47 <Phantom_Hoover> division even
13:42:59 <Phantom_Hoover> all these and more have featured in past maths challenges
13:43:55 <elliott> maths challenge, surgeons general
13:44:55 <Deewiant> elliott: You could also have done /help logger.file.path.
13:45:54 <shachaf> elliott: What do you think of Zipper?
13:45:54 <elliott> Deewiant: Look I was born with an inability to read any text not written for me on IRC.
13:45:59 <elliott> That's just the way life is?????
13:46:19 <shachaf> elliott: You know the most annoying thing about Zipper?
13:46:31 <shachaf> Deewiant: Please be respectful of elliott's disability, Deewiant.
13:46:55 <Deewiant> elliott: Arguably if your client responds to /help foo, it's equivalent to that response being written for you on IRC.
13:47:07 <elliott> It's not a disability! It's a dis...read...ability.
13:47:07 <elliott> Deewiant: IRC clients aren't people.
13:47:22 <Deewiant> elliott: The only difference is that you need to type /help foo instead of "what is <thing in foo>".
13:47:31 <Deewiant> elliott: Maybe I'm not a person! HOW WOULD YOU KNOW.
13:47:41 <elliott> Deewiant: Well I can read what you are saying so OBVIOUSLY you are?
13:47:44 <elliott> fungot: Hi.
13:47:44 <fungot> elliott: http://youtube.com/ fnord richard dawkins " what if you're in. cvs info: https://sourceforge.net/ fnord
13:47:48 <elliott> nope
13:47:50 <elliott> can't read that
13:48:03 <Deewiant> You've read fungot's output in the past.
13:48:03 <fungot> Deewiant: this is exactly how lisp operating systems tended to work when i burned it on a 3ghz p4?
13:48:11 <elliott> Guys, hire me to do your Turing tests for you??
13:48:17 <elliott> Deewiant: I get Phantom_Hoover to retype them for me.
13:48:21 <shachaf> elliott: help
13:48:30 <shachaf> elliott: How do I Haddockument a data type?
13:48:32 <shachaf> Non-GADT
13:48:57 <Deewiant> elliott: I can probably find an instance where he wasn't even on-channel and yet you responded to a bot within seconds.
13:50:19 <elliott> Deewiant: I have a psychic link.
13:50:33 <Deewiant> To quote you: that is cheating.
13:51:20 <elliott> :(
13:51:24 <elliott> you win
13:51:55 <shachaf> git push --force
13:52:52 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
13:54:07 <shachaf> ion: What do you say? cs u js?
13:57:02 <ion> ju(ra)ss(i)c
14:21:32 -!- Arc_Koen has joined.
14:33:51 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:44:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
14:44:25 -!- ais523_ has joined.
14:44:44 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
14:44:54 <ais523> `pastlog make-loud-noises
14:45:34 <HackEgo> 2012-11-20.txt:03:21:28: <kmc> /usr/bin/make-loud-noises
14:45:47 <Arc_Koen> you can do that?
14:46:05 <Arc_Koen> `pastlog Minks computational class proof
14:46:06 <ais523> yeah, `pastlog was my idea
14:46:14 <ais523> it's `log except it doesn't include today
14:46:17 <HackEgo> No output.
14:46:22 <atriq> "Today I had penne. I prefer spaghetti, but penne is certainly my second favourite. I had a napoli sauce, which I enjoyed very much."
14:46:23 <ais523> among other things, this means that you won't get your own query repeated back to you
14:46:28 <atriq> Wait, that would be pastalog
14:46:40 <ais523> `pastlog pasta
14:46:42 <Arc_Koen> oh, right
14:46:47 <Arc_Koen> `log this is a test
14:46:47 <HackEgo> 2010-12-30.txt:23:54:46: <variable> elliott_, I am already a sworn Pastafarian and Googlist
14:46:57 <HackEgo> 2009-07-06.txt:16:23:51: <EgoBot> This is a test
14:46:57 <Arc_Koen> hey look, pastalog again
14:47:02 <ais523> it's fun just throwing random words in it and seeing what comes out
14:47:20 <ais523> `pastlog denotational
14:47:25 <fizzie> `pastlog delusional
14:47:30 <HackEgo> 2010-10-14.txt:18:05:21: <cpressey_> oerjan: i want to invent "denotational arrows". they sound like they have such lovely properties.
14:47:33 <atriq> `pastlog jarlsberg
14:47:34 <fizzie> Let's see if those get the same result.
14:47:34 <HackEgo> 2012-03-18.txt:19:11:04: <pikhq_> Not very delusional, more just bitter about how GPLv3 has put people off of GPL...
14:47:34 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
14:47:42 <HackEgo> 2010-05-16.txt:19:10:25: <oerjan> AnMaster: well three Stamhus (shires?), really. actually one of them (Jarlsberg) still exists, the constitution only prohibits making new ones
14:48:36 <atriq> `pastlog cuboidal
14:48:41 <Arc_Koen> oh we have that kind of rules here, too
14:48:45 <HackEgo> 2010-11-23.txt:23:02:37: <Phantom_Hoover_> fizzie, what awesome things could I put in a giant cuboidal cavern?
14:48:46 <Arc_Koen> for instance about building houses
14:49:10 <Arc_Koen> you need the total area (house + garden) to be large enough, otherwise you're not allowed to build a house there
14:49:27 <Arc_Koen> however, if there is already a house there, then you are allowed to build extensions to it
14:49:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
14:49:48 <Arc_Koen> so for instance, you're not allowed to destroy the house then build a larger one
14:49:51 <ais523> `pastlog cromulent
14:49:58 <HackEgo> 2009-05-19.txt:17:51:38: <ehird> Principal Skinner: He's embiggened that role with his cromulent performance.
14:50:02 <Deewiant> `pastlog crumbs
14:50:02 <Arc_Koen> but you're allowed to build an extension, then destroy the original part and build a larger one
14:50:10 <HackEgo> 2011-02-17.txt:19:31:18: <Gregor> quintopia: allegro changes my breadcrumbs before I even set them.
14:50:14 <atriq> `pastlog faraday
14:50:19 <Deewiant> `pastlog faraway
14:50:23 <HackEgo> 2009-04-29.txt:23:56:01: <ehird> you live in a faraday cage.
14:50:28 <HackEgo> 2011-01-10.txt:13:53:09: <fizzie> The forthcoming "unload far-away chunks on disk" code will probably make it easy to also provide a (runtime) mode where it just forgets faraway blocks. They're always re-sent by the server for the client, anyway.
14:50:31 <Arc_Koen> `pastlog farfadet
14:50:36 <Deewiant> `pastlog far-fetched
14:50:39 <HackEgo> No output.
14:50:44 <ais523> is it bad that I originally read allegro as the game creation library, rather than the BF Joust program?
14:50:44 <HackEgo> 2009-09-06.txt:11:43:04: <fizzie> They all sound a bit far-fetched to me; the only one that makes sense is this "want to get online from both the phone and the computer without messing around with internet-over-phone stuff" case.
14:51:02 <Arc_Koen> anyway see you later
14:51:02 <Deewiant> ais523: I also did until you mentioned it.
14:51:03 <ais523> `pastlog ffspg
14:51:09 <Deewiant> `pastlog ffvii
14:51:11 <HackEgo> 2011-03-20.txt:22:28:57: <ais523> I imagine FFSPG could be trivially tweaked to beat it
14:51:17 <HackEgo> 2012-06-03.txt:10:41:27: <fizzie> I see they've also made a FFVII themed version of Potion for that game's 10-year anniversary.
14:51:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
14:51:35 <ais523> `pastlog clog
14:51:41 <Deewiant> `pastlog unclog
14:51:42 <HackEgo> 2003-07-19.txt:23:42:13: -!- clog has quit (ended).
14:51:50 <HackEgo> 2007-04-21.txt:04:40:30: <RProgrammer> I'm having trouble uncloging my tubes (it's not a truck!), I accidently clicked on the 261M file and, note to others: Firefox loads it as text
14:52:05 <atriq> `pastlog cumberpatch
14:52:13 <Deewiant> `pastlog unencumbered
14:52:16 <HackEgo> No output.
14:52:20 <HackEgo> 2009-09-05.txt:18:19:03: <Deewiant> Agree or disagree: 'If [the 80386] were an unencumbered design, it would have had a 32-bit "word", but as an extension of the 8086, its "word" continued to be considered as 16 bits.'
14:52:22 <ais523> `pastlog okokoko
14:52:33 <Deewiant> `pastlog ohno
14:52:33 <HackEgo> 2011-11-27.txt:21:32:11: <oklopol> okokokokokokokokoko
14:52:35 <atriq> `pastlog the same person?
14:52:43 <ais523> the "no output" must be atriq's
14:52:49 <atriq> Yeah
14:52:54 <HackEgo> 2011-01-04.txt:16:37:53: <elliott> Everyone with the same name is the same person!
14:52:54 <HackEgo> 2011-12-28.txt:04:57:54: <monqy> ohno
14:53:06 <atriq> Good combination
14:53:06 <ais523> `pastlog birthday
14:53:14 <HackEgo> 2011-11-06.txt:18:52:07: <Ngevd> One person showed up to my birthday party
14:53:15 <Deewiant> `pastlog rebirth
14:53:23 <atriq> I remember that!
14:53:23 <HackEgo> 2012-06-01.txt:20:07:42: <quintopia> Taneb: you're not reallydead until all lives are gone. just set back a bit. the karma cycle ofrebirth goes on.
14:53:27 <atriq> That was a fun birthday
14:53:47 -!- nooga has joined.
14:53:52 <ais523> atriq: was that person you?
14:53:58 <ais523> or was it held in your absence?
14:54:12 <fizzie> `pastlog cucumber
14:54:19 <HackEgo> 2010-07-14.txt:23:33:00: <nooga> prawns with mayo and cucumber <3
14:54:25 <Deewiant> `pastlog courgette
14:54:33 <HackEgo> 2010-06-20.txt:22:37:34: <AnMaster> ais523, wtf is courgettes?
14:54:39 <Deewiant> `pastlog zucchini
14:54:44 <ais523> `pastlog nostalgia
14:54:47 <HackEgo> 2006-08-04.txt:22:02:12: <GregorR-W> These are the voyages ... of the starship zucchini.
14:54:52 <HackEgo> 2010-01-08.txt:19:11:50: * ehird installs WinHugs for the nostalgia
14:55:06 <Deewiant> `pastlog nonary
14:55:15 <HackEgo> 2007-06-08.txt:04:08:30: <GregorR-L> Nonary
14:55:22 <fizzie> `pastlog esoteric programming language
14:55:31 <HackEgo> 2007-05-16.txt:17:18:09: -!- lament changed the topic of #esoteric to: - the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - map: http://www.frappr.com/esolang - forum: http://esolangs.org/forum/ - EgoBot: !help - wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/ - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric - Pastebin: http://pastebin.ca/ | http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/
14:55:32 <atriq> ais523, I was there before it started, so I didn't "turn up" per se
14:55:37 <ais523> I guess this is sort-of a competition along the lines of "what's the most obscure word that you can get to come up without remembering the line in which it was said"
14:55:54 <ais523> oh wow, now /that's/ a nostalgic topic
14:56:01 <ais523> atriq: I once got into a nightclub that way by mistake
14:56:07 <Deewiant> `pastlog nightclub
14:56:08 <ais523> I was trying to watch coverage of the Guild elections
14:56:15 <HackEgo> 2010-08-14.txt:17:45:37: <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Jamie Zawinski, Netscape programmer, XEmacs (Lucid Emacs) programmer, now nightclub owner, genius.
14:56:16 <fizzie> `pastlog pleistocene
14:56:23 <HackEgo> No output.
14:56:25 <ais523> but the room I was watching it in got gradually transformed into a nightclub while I was watching
14:56:26 <fizzie> Aw.
14:56:37 <ais523> and eventually people turned up there and started partying
14:56:49 <Deewiant> `pastlog plasticity
14:56:57 <HackEgo> 2009-08-03.txt:02:23:25: <mycroftiv> that being said - i understand that *plastic* was created because marble is hard to work with, and having something easier to shape is valuable - and ehird is talking about increasing the *plasticity* of data and how we work with it
14:57:39 <Deewiant> `pastlog despicable
14:57:47 <HackEgo> 2010-06-26.txt:00:43:31: <alise> The most despicable use of the netcat name is GNU's, IMO. It's an entirely different software package and they've tried to usurp the name.
14:58:24 <atriq> `pastlog slaley
14:58:29 <Deewiant> `pastlog slalom
14:58:33 <HackEgo> No output.
14:58:36 <HackEgo> 2009-03-16.txt:19:25:14: <AnMaster> I managed the slalom one
14:58:53 <Deewiant> `pastlog molals
14:59:01 <HackEgo> No output.
14:59:21 <atriq> `pastlog toblerone
14:59:29 <Deewiant> `pastlog tablemanners
14:59:30 <HackEgo> 2011-03-06.txt:02:21:36: <elliott> at least, milka is also chocolate, and has none of the letters in toblerone
14:59:39 <HackEgo> No output.
15:01:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 243 seconds).
15:07:34 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:07:51 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
15:08:25 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:09:34 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8).
15:18:28 -!- augur has joined.
15:23:00 <atriq> I have notorious luck writing dupdog interpreters
15:23:13 <atriq> The hello world program printed:
15:23:15 <atriq>
15:23:15 <atriq> <täÁþ÷é͕%Fˆ
15:23:15 <atriq> <täÁþ÷é͕%Fˆ
15:23:15 <atriq> <täÁþ÷é͕%Fˆ
15:23:15 <atriq> ;rߺn-7638104968020361213
15:23:47 <FireFly> At least you got the first letter right
15:24:32 <Deewiant> atriq: Which hello world program?
15:25:07 <Deewiant> The one on the wiki seems to want a character set of size 257
15:25:15 <atriq> That one
15:25:22 <atriq> And I've done that
15:25:37 <atriq> Do you want to see the output with character set size 256?
15:25:46 <Deewiant> I expect it's similar
15:26:18 <atriq> Qš0\´dĄ-7638104968020361213
15:26:44 <atriq> I'm beginning to suspect -763810496802036123 is important
15:26:59 <Deewiant> `pastlog analect
15:27:03 <atriq> > minBound :: Int
15:27:04 <lambdabot> -9223372036854775808
15:27:10 <HackEgo> No output.
15:27:17 <Deewiant> 763810496802036123: 3 11 73 1699 186618821953
15:28:58 <atriq> After a small change, it outputs "Hel1394"
15:32:40 <atriq> Hehe
15:32:48 <atriq> Getting ther
15:32:50 <atriq> e
15:38:54 -!- Frooxius has joined.
15:43:04 -!- FreeFull has joined.
15:48:33 -!- atriq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:49:40 -!- atriq has joined.
15:54:09 <Arc_Koen> dupdog, is that the weird, weird, weird string-rewriting/self-modifying program?
15:57:09 -!- nooga has joined.
15:57:29 <atriq> Yeah
15:57:48 <atriq> It was originally concieved as 2 IRC bots
16:00:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:03:16 -!- augur has joined.
16:03:26 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
16:04:51 <Arc_Koen> nice
16:05:08 <Arc_Koen> we should do that more
16:05:25 <Arc_Koen> programming languages based on several distinct entities talking to each other
16:07:07 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:21:33 <FreeFull> What about slashes
16:26:15 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
16:27:31 <Arc_Koen> wow, there is no truth-machine in slashes, I have to do that now
16:27:55 <FreeFull> Well, slashes isn't "two entities"
16:28:02 <FreeFull> Just string rewriting
16:28:59 <Arc_Koen> yes
16:29:18 <Arc_Koen> and now I see what they meant with "no obvious way to loop"
16:30:01 <FreeFull> But it seems to be turing-complete?
16:31:18 <Arc_Koen> apparently
16:33:22 <Arc_Koen> my intuitive approach would be something like "if 0 just print, if 1 replace with (1 followed by (replace 1 with 1 followed by [looping]))
16:33:31 <Arc_Koen> buuuuuut that's kind of an infinite program
16:34:01 <Arc_Koen> disappointingly the 99 bottles of beer program is just a program that decompresses a compressed form of the 99 bottles of beer lyrics
16:34:36 <kmc> ε₀ bottles of beer
16:35:14 <Arc_Koen> something like 99X99Y98X98Y... preceded by "replace X with 'bottles of beer on the wall' and Y with 'bottles of beer, take one down, pass it around'"
16:35:16 <shachaf> http://www.burritophile.com/editorial_review.php?rid=5&uid=3&pid=8
16:35:26 <shachaf> "all good things must tend towards the middle" :-(
16:35:33 <FreeFull> Actually
16:35:48 <FreeFull> I think compression algorithms do tend to involve string rewriting at the decompression stage
16:36:17 <shachaf> An excellent place to get a burrito, though.
16:36:25 <shachaf> kmc: If you end up near that part of Mountain View, you should go there.
16:36:58 <Arc_Koen> FreeFull: my point is there is no loop in it
16:37:19 <Arc_Koen> the main part contains every number from 99 to 0
16:37:37 <FreeFull> I'm sure if you're clever enough you could do a loop
16:37:52 <kmc> echo /Td6WFoAAATm1rRGAgAhARwAAAAQz1jM4C4JAfJdABzgfMRvOiayBchkwCoTnRZueVwweCaCOzkpl7lW+8i2w1DOJI4QcafLbiSrQqJUu+CovkOtJdZX3ZZ6JYuAeyC0zroAqZGK5Fn1rDOTcLS50dUl1hWMsr3UEhpMMS2OjjP87tLp1XrCTIweITpDTTIrL/FEvUwiRbI9ifMnEWlHTz7F1liMTi8WuQeXUIs8pGdZxLjWHqnoFDG/d9XAqWCmL8ipbLgqX0omMB0BMFyqU4xJqMgt6TrTEpmzfygGNFJcrdQimxlupT/iKsZLcZvyqWMrBxl56g6I27P80dQXtPLxEAQRpR75WiNNcVIPnyYb0Mfu2toVW6Bgtsofl+DJX8HMImBzc0L \
16:37:56 <Arc_Koen> yes, apparently Oerjan can do that
16:37:58 <kmc> S1kjyzGLD4NJNPt/ogwmhWRraw5M+bCmBMhC2G4doMd9B73ZSlLiSPXrptjwzQ1yTJgQ6W+f7WyF8rib4u6XXfhthQ2UDFvKIBHHaE7vrZy96hjdwtA/YupwFDGua/Lvjb9KHSc0DbKTtOXrj7fCZ6qAAH4DH7+gFQC7/nFsNNWDLJ9kUeQ0FcU/K7Q8r4r3fclSaVMnqCtDSZewYU3XUJRbN9aGDehXmIvju63z7RGXMoqlU+OWGDkvEfOp7CLE54+6Wm3rF9FklBRlcBsYRlk0SI1ig7DdweMlBfRF2YlEAJlPNdGLQAAAAAIr9dEHUuoWSAAGOBIpcAAA+hi31scRn+wIAAAAABFla | base64 -d | unxz
16:39:38 <FreeFull> I think what should be attempted first is a slashes program that rewrites any number to a lower number
16:39:54 <FreeFull> Unless 0, then exit
16:41:21 <Phantom_Hoover> <Arc_Koen> programming languages based on several distinct entities talking to each other
16:41:37 <Phantom_Hoover> pretty sure this tied into a number of graph-based language ideas
16:41:55 <Phantom_Hoover> also pretty sure it was considered back when people still took the wire crossing problem seriously
16:42:13 <shachaf> kmc: Did that get cut off or something?
16:42:21 <Arc_Koen> but I probably wasn't born back then :)
16:42:57 <Phantom_Hoover> you weren't born in like the early 2000s
16:43:05 <Phantom_Hoover> wow you're even younger than monqy
16:43:18 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:43:29 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:43:41 <Arc_Koen> ah, well
16:43:46 <shachaf> base64: invalid input
16:43:53 <Arc_Koen> let me restate then
16:44:02 <kmc> sorry there's a space in the middle
16:44:13 <Arc_Koen> "but I probably hadn't heard of computer science back then"
16:44:40 <shachaf> Oh.
16:44:48 <shachaf> I thought base64 just skips spaces or something?
16:45:20 -!- augur has joined.
16:46:20 <fizzie> You need to tell it to.
16:46:28 <fizzie> -i, --ignore-garbage: when decoding, ignore non-alphabet characters
16:46:28 <shachaf> What does it do with them otherwise?
16:46:40 <shachaf> Is it just newlines it ignores by default?
16:46:44 <fizzie> Just newlines, yes.
16:48:39 <fizzie> Possibly it's following RFC 3548's spirit: "Implementations MUST reject the encoding if it contains characters outside the base alphabet when interpreting base encoded data, unless the specification referring to this document explicitly states otherwise. Such specifications may, as MIME does, instead state that characters outside the base encoding alphabet should simply be ignored when ...
16:48:45 <fizzie> ... interpreting data ("be liberal in what you accept")."
17:03:22 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving).
17:21:05 -!- jfischoff has joined.
17:21:18 <jfischoff> has anyone ever used Magma?
17:21:55 <jfischoff> I have become interested in languages that are designed around algebraic structures
17:22:02 <jfischoff> which supposedly Magma is=
17:27:19 <Phantom_Hoover> magma as in the algebraic structure or is there also a language called magma
17:41:25 <jfischoff> There is language called Magma
17:42:36 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magma_computer_algebra_system this?
17:44:27 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
17:44:44 <jfischoff> yes
17:44:55 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit).
17:45:06 <jfischoff> but I'm interested in anything that makes algebraic structures first class
17:45:12 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
17:45:31 <jfischoff> so in Haskell I can almost do that
17:45:46 <jfischoff> but I can't encode the laws I want the type classes to follow
17:45:52 <jfischoff> I just have to document that
17:46:46 -!- Friendship has changed nick to Gregor.
17:48:10 <atriq> Does this imply Gregor is Magical?
17:49:57 <Gregor> Yes.
17:53:28 <Phantom_Hoover> jfischoff, have you heard of agda and coq
17:58:37 <jfischoff> Phatom_Hoover:yes
17:58:46 -!- boily has joined.
17:59:03 <ais523> !bf_txtgen why does #pokemon have a brainfuck bot?
17:59:07 <EgoBot> ​302 +++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>-.>-.>+.>++.<<----.>----------.<+.<----.>>>.+++.<<<---.-.----.>.<++.>>.-.>---.<------.-------.<<+++++++++.>.>>.<.>.<+.<<----.>>-.<++++.+++++.--------.<+++.>>++.++++++++.>.<<----.>++++.<<-.>-----------------------------------.>>----------------------. [292]
17:59:36 <Gregor> … lol
18:00:07 -!- Vorpal has joined.
18:01:12 <atriq> To lure us onto the channel
18:01:24 <atriq> I seriously thought of joining #pokemon just to see the bot
18:01:27 <Phantom_Hoover> ugh
18:01:35 <Phantom_Hoover> the queen arrives at my fortress, and she's a vampire
18:01:45 <Gregor> Don't you hate it when that happens!
18:01:59 <Phantom_Hoover> also: half the royal family had already settled here and i never realised
18:03:43 <Phantom_Hoover> itidus20, as it turns out, was 3rd in line for the throne
18:03:56 <Phantom_Hoover> at least until he got barbequed by a forgotten beast
18:04:51 <atriq> Has elliott started the succession fort yet?
18:05:00 <Phantom_Hoover> possibly
18:05:03 <Phantom_Hoover> we just don't know
18:07:31 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
18:07:38 <AnotherTest> Hello
18:10:25 <fizzie> ais523: Is it a brainfuck-only bot, or a bot-with-brainfuck-among-other-stuff?
18:12:52 <atriq> Where is elliott anyway
18:13:16 <atriq> Did he see that witch and get turned into a duck, only to find that it's hard to use computers if you're a duck?
18:13:33 <fizzie> He saw a which and turned to a dak.
18:13:51 <fizzie> It's hard to use computers when you're a tree.
18:16:56 -!- variable has joined.
18:23:14 <NihilistDandy> Are we still playing DF?
18:24:50 <atriq> Yes
18:25:11 <NihilistDandy> Is my master craftsman still turning food into statues or whatever?
18:27:26 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
18:27:41 <fizzie> I think it's kinda funny that "mplayer -speed 0.5" just resamples the audio track instead of actually slowing it down or speeding it up. Everyone has so manly voices now.
18:30:32 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
18:31:47 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:33:03 -!- carado has joined.
18:33:15 -!- Frooxius has joined.
18:33:43 <shachaf> kmc:
18:33:44 <shachaf> 10:31 <rwbarton> thachaf
18:33:45 <shachaf> 10:31 <shachaf> ywbarton
18:34:48 <atriq> This has the makings of a really successful fortress
18:35:31 <atriq> Magnetite and chalk
18:35:36 <ion> fizzie: af-pre=scaletempo
18:38:15 -!- Bike has joined.
18:40:25 -!- ais523 has quit.
18:41:11 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:41:38 -!- Frooxius has joined.
18:43:31 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving).
19:07:47 -!- monqy has joined.
19:09:17 -!- nooodl has joined.
19:21:42 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:25:31 -!- sirdancealot8 has joined.
19:43:53 <olsner> atriq: chalk doesn't sound like a very sturdy material to build a fortress out of
19:44:08 <atriq> And I'm pretty sure magnetite is a pokemon
19:44:46 <Arc_Koen> fortress as well?
19:44:49 <olsner> could also be a sailor moon villain
19:44:56 <Arc_Koen> well, I think Foretress is the french name for a pokemon
19:45:02 <Deewiant> It's a pokémon and not a sailor moon villain
19:45:21 <Deewiant> Actually magnemite is
19:45:25 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, you can build a fortress out of soap, chalk is as realistic as it gets
19:45:27 <Deewiant> Disregard me etc
19:45:55 <Arc_Koen> Deewiant: I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be the only one in this room to know 493 pokemon names
19:46:19 <Deewiant> I doubt I know 151
19:47:56 <fizzie> "*** THIS PROGRAM IS DEPRECATED *** This program is only provided for compatibility and will be removed in a future release. Please use avconv instead." Well, now. (That was ffmpeg.)
19:48:27 <Deewiant> ffmpeg is deprecated, oh noes
19:49:14 <fizzie> Also, where in Audacity is there a spectrogram tool?
19:49:33 <Fiora> select an area of sound and do analyze/plot spectrum
19:50:08 <fizzie> That's not a spectrogram.
19:51:36 <Arc_Koen> how can a program be deprecated?
19:51:59 <olsner> by printing an annoying deprecation message on startup
19:53:05 <Fiora> I don't think it has anything else for spectrums, but I'm not sure
19:54:28 -!- pikhq_ has joined.
19:54:54 <fizzie> I'll just octave instead, but it's a shame. I think even my pirated CoolEdit from Windows 3.1 days did spectrgrams.
19:54:58 <fizzie> Oh, and Cubic Player too.
19:57:11 -!- jix_ has joined.
19:57:46 <Arc_Koen> hey, how can http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Pure_BF/Implementation&action=raw be a valid haskell file? all the wiki stuff doesn't seem to be commented at all
19:58:16 <Deewiant> Because all the Haskell is after >
19:58:27 <Deewiant> http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/literate.html
20:00:18 <Arc_Koen> oh, ok
20:00:24 <Arc_Koen> thanks
20:00:47 <olsner> hmm, every line ends with ; and it uses explicit blocks everywhere, that's not like any haskell code I've ever seen
20:01:07 <kmc> there is one person on hackage who writes code like that
20:01:17 <olsner> is that person also zzo?
20:01:19 <kmc> i think they are blind and use a screen-reader or braille tty
20:01:24 <kmc> probably not
20:01:36 -!- atriq has quit (*.net *.split).
20:01:36 -!- pikhq has quit (*.net *.split).
20:01:36 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split).
20:01:36 -!- ssue has quit (*.net *.split).
20:01:48 <FreeFull> Arc_Koen: It does seem to be valid haskell somehow, but I can't run it because I don't have Control.Comonad :D
20:03:45 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:04:01 <Arc_Koen> hello oerjan
20:04:53 <fizzie> Why don't any of these query-by-humming things allow just a file upload? It's always a Flash applet with a "record this" button, and those just hang whenever I try to allow microphone access.
20:04:54 <olsner> FreeFull: you probably just need to cabal install comonads
20:05:28 <Arc_Koen> oh wait
20:05:56 <Arc_Koen> earlier I thought writing a truth-machine in Slashes would be complicated because there is no way to loop
20:06:12 <Arc_Koen> but I forgot that the substitution loops by default
20:06:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
20:06:19 <Arc_Koen> soooo it's in fact as simple as the thue one
20:06:32 <Arc_Koen> ok, I write a message to that girl first, then the truth-machine
20:07:02 <olsner> iirc it's still somewhat tricky, because the interpreter eats your program you need to set up a way to duplicate the program in order to loop
20:07:17 <Vorpal> hm, is Baldur's Gate worth playing?
20:07:25 <Arc_Koen> not for a program as simple as the truth-machine
20:08:09 -!- atriq has joined.
20:08:37 <Arc_Koen> ah, wait, if the substitution's loop is used, then the program will loop forever *before* anything is printed
20:08:41 <Arc_Koen> that's problematic
20:09:23 -!- ssue has joined.
20:11:49 <fizzie> Vorpal: I kind of liked it.
20:12:15 <fizzie> Vorpal: Were you thinking of the Enhanced Edition or the original?
20:14:23 <fizzie> Admittedly what I remember most vividly from it is YOU MUST GATHER YOUR PARTY BEFORE VENTURING FORTH.
20:15:15 <fizzie> Cf. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93XFxKXdbqY
20:15:46 <fizzie> I think I remember some kind of a more rap adaptation.
20:15:56 <olsner> why doesn't the empire fire on r2d2 and c3pos escape pod in the beginning? is it really that expensive to pew the pewpews?
20:16:23 <fizzie> Oh, right, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXOpjgYMISw is probably it.
20:20:50 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: hello
20:20:58 <Arc_Koen> hi
20:21:11 <olsner> the star wars wiki spends lots of text explaining what rank and names the people in that conversation have, but not what they're saying except that it was parodied by family guy
20:21:17 <Arc_Koen> I was gonna ask you how the hell you were able to make a loop or something of the like in slashes
20:21:31 <Arc_Koen> in more polite terms
20:21:44 <Arc_Koen> but then I realized the substitution process itself was a loop
20:22:11 <oerjan> <Arc_Koen> yes, apparently Oerjan can do that
20:22:31 <Arc_Koen> though that doesn't solve it completely because you can't perform output while in the process of substituting
20:22:34 <oerjan> curiously i was thinking about 99bob the other day, and noticed there was one which didn't quite loop
20:22:43 <Arc_Koen> indeed
20:22:52 <Arc_Koen> our spirits must be connected or something
20:23:02 <oerjan> *yesterday, in fact
20:23:05 <Arc_Koen> except there apparently is much jetlag on the spirit subspace
20:23:16 <oerjan> ...that explains so much.
20:23:53 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: i already wrote a Truth-machine in Itflabtijtslwi, which is /// + input, btw
20:24:08 <Arc_Koen> yes I saw that
20:24:16 <Arc_Koen> it looks very long though
20:24:53 <oerjan> <Arc_Koen> ah, wait, if the substitution's loop is used, then the program will loop forever *before* anything is printed <-- yep
20:25:37 <Arc_Koen> so what do you do exactly, quine yourself?
20:25:41 <Arc_Koen> like in muriel?
20:28:17 -!- NihilistDandy has joined.
20:29:04 <oerjan> <olsner> why doesn't the empire fire on r2d2 and c3pos escape pod in the beginning? is it really that expensive to pew the pewpews? <-- http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0683.html hth >:)
20:29:49 <NihilistDandy> Link saved.
20:30:12 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
20:31:38 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: yes, you quine. see the explanation under http://esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes#Simpler_counter , although the truth-machine code is probably more streamlined.
20:32:23 <oerjan> basically i later got better at using less obtrusive characters
20:32:45 <fizzie> "Yes, you quine" makes "quine" sound like an insult.
20:32:57 <oerjan> OKAY
20:33:18 <olsner> fizzie: quine it, you quine
20:33:50 <Arc_Koen> "The original counter loop was based on the mistaken belief that it was impossible to distinguish two copies of program code without scanning through them. But after my morning coffee http://esolangs.org/wiki/%C3%98rjan_Johansen realized that there was a simple way to distinguish them: Copy one of them again to another place."
20:34:21 <Arc_Koen> this sounds like all the "is ben parker the clone, or is it peter parker?" weird stuff from marvel
20:35:39 <oerjan> well that link shows as a blue "I" in the orginal.
20:36:44 <Arc_Koen> oh, sorry
20:36:58 <Arc_Koen> I thought I had solve that copypasting problem
20:37:07 <oerjan> apart from space removal, i think that the truth-machine is fairly close to as short as you get with this method.
20:37:48 <Arc_Koen> btw "I" is too short a word for a random user like me to realize it's a link
20:38:21 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: it was _meant_ to be almost invisible
20:39:33 <oerjan> i have many other edits where you have to look at page history to know it was me.
20:39:35 <Arc_Koen> oh, ok
20:40:11 <oerjan> in particular, i think the overwhelming majority of the Underload page is by me now
20:41:39 <oerjan> well the /// too
20:44:26 <Vorpal> <fizzie> Vorpal: Were you thinking of the Enhanced Edition or the original? <-- actually I was looking at gog.com
20:44:36 <Vorpal> fizzie, what about the second instalment?
20:45:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, but on gog it is called "Baldur's Gate: The Original Saga"
20:45:54 <NihilistDandy> BGII is best BG
20:46:10 <NihilistDandy> Though I'm definitely getting the enhanced edition the second it comes out
20:48:17 <fizzie> Vorpal: The second one, combined with the Throne of Baal thing, is I think perhaps the better BG, yes.
20:48:38 <fizzie> I'm mhissing a h there.
20:48:47 <NihilistDandy> Bhaal
20:49:08 <fizzie> Yes, it went into my "missing". How curious.
20:50:07 <NihilistDandy> Quite
20:50:53 <fizzie> I did the whole Tutu/EasyTutu thing once, too. That's a thing which inserts BG1 into the BG2 engine, so that you can play through the whole thing using that.
20:51:06 <fizzie> Presumably the Enhanced Edition will be more... enhanced, though.
20:51:19 <NihilistDandy> Yeah, the mod and fix community around the Black Isle games is awesome.
20:51:39 <fizzie> Also, in some sense it's "out" already, since they started the pre-downloads.
20:51:50 <NihilistDandy> The first time I played BGII with some of the fixes and enhancements, it was like a new game.
20:52:12 <NihilistDandy> It probably helped that my computer was 10 years newer than the first time, as well
20:52:45 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: would you happen to know why input is done with "GG...GG"? I guess the G stands for 'get', but /// was kind of poetic with only slashes and backslashes, and adding letters into that kinda spoils it all for me
20:52:54 <NihilistDandy> I'm sort of curious about the iPad version. I used a lot of shortcut keys
20:55:17 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: i think it was pure whimsy, the dialect was added by a user who hasn't been around much, but when i needed input for /// i just ran with it. it has the advantage it takes single characters, at least, which gives it better input than Thue...
20:55:36 <Arc_Koen> yes
20:55:56 <Arc_Koen> well thue's input/output is too much computer-oriented in my opinion
20:56:11 <Arc_Koen> I mean, thue itself is very simple and abstract
20:56:25 <oerjan> it's main problem is it makes it impossible to avoid code injection.
20:56:27 <oerjan> *its
20:56:29 <Arc_Koen> I can imagine myself interpreting thue with little rocks with symbols painted on it
20:57:13 <Arc_Koen> the most simple way to avoid code injection I can think of it too have the input alphabet be strictly smaller than the alphabet used by the program
20:58:00 <Arc_Koen> s/if too/is to
20:58:34 <fizzie> s/$/\//
20:58:44 <oerjan> that would work too. another nice thing about GG is it's unlikely to happen by chance in a pure /// program, so the dialect is mostly backwards-compatible.
20:59:34 <olsner> is it possible to find a sequence of \ and / that isn't valid/can't be useful in a real program?
21:01:15 <oerjan> no, you could always manage to substitute it with something else
21:02:24 <Arc_Koen> ah well, I guess you can start a iftlabiswjee program with /|/GG/ and use for instance |...| as the input sequence
21:02:53 <oerjan> sure. as long as you don't need to print |'s that aren't from the input.
21:03:17 <oerjan> (that's a general problem with any single-character abbreviations.)
21:03:18 <olsner> Arc_Koen: *itflabtijtslwi
21:03:46 <Arc_Koen> am I supposed to remember that olsner, or are you offering to make the substitution for me everytime I talk about that language?
21:04:10 <olsner> you're supposed to remember it, obviously
21:04:31 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: btw if you manage to make a functional looping programing you may be only the third person to do so. (Nthern being the second.)
21:04:36 <oerjan> *program
21:04:54 <Arc_Koen> and by functional I assume you mean that it would actually work
21:04:59 <oerjan> yeah :P
21:05:13 -!- copumpkin has joined.
21:05:49 <atriq> "Nthern" sounds like me
21:06:20 <oerjan> i don't think he was you. he never answered my comments, for one thing.
21:06:30 <atriq> He isn't me
21:06:53 <atriq> I'm Taneb, Ngevd, atriq, askit0, 0taneb, taneb0, and once I was FlatFish
21:07:10 -!- nooodl_ has joined.
21:07:17 <olsner> !rot13 askit0
21:07:19 <EgoBot> nfxvg0
21:07:40 <atriq> "askit0" was my first online account
21:07:47 <atriq> It was originally for Runescape
21:07:57 <atriq> Although now it has use as my steam handle
21:08:49 <Arc_Koen> oerjan: well I would go with quining, but the truth-machine in muriel was actually quite simple (though the implementation's specs kinda surprised me) and your program doesn't look to be simple at all
21:09:55 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:10:17 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:11:23 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: almost all the complexity is in the scaffolding for a general loop - the truth-machine specific parts are just four short lines
21:12:06 <Arc_Koen> well the truth-machine specific parts in the muriel truth-machine were just four short characters :)
21:12:13 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
21:12:17 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:20:05 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: /// has nothing corresponding to Muriel's quotify operator |, this makes quining much harder (together with the hardness of treating two equal substrings differently)
21:20:23 <Arc_Koen> oh
21:20:47 <Arc_Koen> well what about /\//\\\//text
21:21:08 <Arc_Koen> and /\\/\\\\/text
21:21:19 <Arc_Koen> ohhhhh you can't combine them easily can you
21:21:47 <oerjan> those are usually both non-printing infinite loops
21:21:56 <Arc_Koen> oh right
21:23:30 <olsner> "a real-world warp drive could create some fascinating possibilities for space travel" ... oh really?
21:23:47 <oerjan> olsner: shocking
21:24:59 <olsner> apparently it has recently been made a lot less impossible (in theory anyway), from mass-of-jupiter impossible to 1600 pounds impossible
21:26:19 <FreeFull> I see problems with all the hawking radiation
21:28:19 <oerjan> warp drives have hawking radiation?
21:29:39 <fizzie> Warp hawks.
21:29:46 <fizzie> They prey on things in the hyperspace.
21:30:46 <olsner> what radiation they emit, and how much of it, probably depends a lot on the implementation
21:31:10 <fizzie> You don't "implement" warp hawks, you get "eaten" by them.
21:31:24 <olsner> there would be some irony in inventing warp drives within the decade but having to spend the next hundred years inventing deflector shields
21:33:00 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:33:39 <fizzie> Niven's Known Space universe had humans invent the Bussard ramjet (fusion rocket <c kind of thing) and then spend quite a long time figuring out how to make one that you can ride without dying.
21:34:39 <olsner> ooh, scifi where humans don't magically solve every problem put in front of them
21:34:47 <FreeFull> fizzie: Lasers and electric/magnetic fields
21:35:50 <fizzie> olsner: They didn't ever manage to invent the warp drive either, they just bought it from aliens.
21:37:33 <oerjan> there was a logical explanation for why humans and other similar races didn't invent warp drive... it only works far from massive bodies
21:38:24 <fizzie> oerjan: FSVO "logical". They *could* have worked out the theory, one supposes, and then gone off a bit to experiment on it.
21:38:35 <atriq> This just in: your mum holding the development of the warp drive back
21:38:38 <oerjan> my vague recollection is that if you tried it elsewhere your ship just evaporated
21:38:49 <oerjan> *disappeared
21:39:16 <oerjan> and the puppeteers hated it because there was a small chance of this happening in any case :P
21:39:23 <atriq> I liked Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers for taking precisely the opposite approach
21:39:54 <fizzie> oerjan: Something like that, yes. There was a plot in one book where a less than moral scientist was using a quantum black hole to get sharp gravity gradients, to rob ships.
21:39:54 <atriq> A couple of humans make a warp drive by accident by putting some cheese in a particle accelerator
21:40:16 <oerjan> i think i read the plot summary of that on wikipedia
21:43:09 <oerjan> the outsiders presumably invented warp drive (or what the actual ftl method was) because they were liquid helium creatures that lived far from any star. although they also prefered slow travel.
21:43:19 <fizzie> oerjan: Banks' Culture has "Displacers" (basically Star Trek teleporters except there's some really minor technicality why they don't count as transmission of matter) which are widely used, even though there's "an approximately one in sixty-one million chance of utter failure resulting in death for the subject."
21:44:06 <oerjan> ah.
21:44:55 <fizzie> Well, maybe not "widely used", since people generally aren't in that much of a hurry to get somewhere, but at least used when appropriate.
21:45:24 <olsner> I wonder what the risk is of dying during any span of time about the same length as it takes to be transported
21:45:25 <Phantom_Hoover> i think they work by making a magic shiny ball around you then lobbing you through the 4th dimension
21:45:56 <olsner> and you have to compare it to the slower alternative, which probably also involves some non-risk-free activity such as space travel
21:46:35 <fizzie> Oh ho, an earlier book says "about once in eighty-three million displacements".
21:47:20 <oerjan> the culture people were pretty long lived though, weren't they.
21:47:30 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, otoh the culture is crazy advanced so a shuttle for moving people from point a to point b is pretty safe
21:47:36 <fizzie> I don't think I can be bothered figuring out where those fall in-universe chronologically, but it'd be nice to know whether they were getting better or worse.
21:48:03 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, the books are in chronological order anyway
21:49:48 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Well, that's helpful.
21:49:59 <Phantom_Hoover> so i guess they're getting worse?
21:50:42 <fizzie> Seems so.
21:51:28 <fizzie> Eighty-three million was from Player of Games; sixty-one from Look to Windward.
21:51:46 <Phantom_Hoover> iirc excession used the 83 million figure too
21:51:48 <fizzie> Could be just more statistics, later on.
21:52:16 <Phantom_Hoover> i remember calculating the odds of any one of the sleeper service's displacements going wrong in that one scene
21:52:32 <fizzie> "-- the risk of something going horribly, terminally wrong was only about one in eighty million for any single Displacement event --" Excession.
21:52:46 <Phantom_Hoover> hmm
21:52:59 <Phantom_Hoover> there's a clear trend here
21:53:53 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:54:10 <fizzie> I suppose it was that "thirty-thousand plus Displacements" mentioned in the same sentence that you calculamated?
21:56:05 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
21:56:40 <Phantom_Hoover> > 1 - (1 - 1/80000000)^30000
21:56:41 <lambdabot> 3.749296998998286e-4
21:57:19 <fizzie> That's curious, (1-1/80000000)^30000 in bc -l took a whole long time to calculate.
21:57:25 <fizzie> Like, several seconds long.
21:57:27 -!- comex` has changed nick to comex.
21:57:49 <olsner> so about every 3000th reading, everyone dies in a transporter accident and the book ends?
21:58:31 <Phantom_Hoover> no, there's one transporter accident
21:59:03 <Phantom_Hoover> and most of the things being transported were fish and birds and the like
21:59:44 <olsner> er, right
22:00:29 <zzo38> Did fish and birds die too? If something being transported is not living, will such things still break?
22:00:41 <Phantom_Hoover> it's unclear but probably
22:01:57 <Phantom_Hoover> although knowing the culture they would probably be like "ok you saved the galaxy but you could've waited like 10 seconds and saved that poor fish"
22:04:10 <zzo38> How much time do you have to save the galaxy?
22:04:45 <Phantom_Hoover> more than 10 seconds
22:05:08 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't really remember how it saved the galaxy though, it might've been more urgent
22:05:32 <zzo38> In that case you should save a fish too if you are sure you have enough time, probably.
22:06:34 <Phantom_Hoover> you know zzo, i've always admired your decisiveness
22:07:04 <olsner> I would not care about the fish
22:07:23 <monqy> would the fish care ?
22:07:27 <atriq> You know, if I ever live on my own, I'm gonna end up starving to death
22:07:32 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, i like your ability to make tough decisions
22:07:38 <Phantom_Hoover> atriq, nah it's not that hard
22:08:00 <Phantom_Hoover> just live on pasta and sandwiches
22:08:02 <atriq> I'd go to fridge and say, "Nah, don't feel like eating anything here"
22:09:51 <atriq> @pinh
22:09:51 <lambdabot> pong
22:09:54 <atriq> @ping
22:09:54 <lambdabot> pong
22:10:00 -!- atriq has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:10:29 <zzo38> Well, if you like to eat a fish, then you can eat a fish instead.
22:17:07 -!- kallisti has joined.
22:17:07 -!- kallisti has quit (Changing host).
22:17:07 -!- kallisti has joined.
22:31:36 <zzo38> I try to find where is the DocBook source of the Csound manual? so that I can know how to write the documentation for my plugin
22:38:15 <zzo38> O, wow, 7-Zip can even open DLL files
22:38:39 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello).
22:48:23 <Arc_Koen> so there's ocamllex and ocamlyacc
22:48:54 <Arc_Koen> but the standard libraries for parsing and lexing cannot work on their own
22:49:48 -!- carado has joined.
22:49:50 <Arc_Koen> I would have expected some functions to perform pattern matching over a string (or a file) to return a buffer of tokens
22:50:58 -!- augur has joined.
22:51:32 <Arc_Koen> I most definitely feel silly doing it on my own over and over everytime
22:52:25 <kmc> http://code.google.com/p/plv8js/wiki/PLV8
22:52:44 <kmc> write PostgreSQL stored procedures in javascript
22:52:46 <kmc> every day
22:53:00 <oerjan> Arc_Koen: <haskell>Parsec beckons you...</haskell>
22:53:13 <Phantom_Hoover> fort news: someone engraved an image of oerjan hugging some yaks
22:53:15 <Arc_Koen> common I'm not gonna learn Haskell
22:53:20 <Arc_Koen> that would be like treason
22:53:33 <Arc_Koen> adultry
22:54:00 <oerjan> silly french...
22:54:12 <Arc_Koen> eh :)
22:54:28 <Arc_Koen> no seriously I'm very surprised there's nothing more helpful in the standard library
22:54:49 <kmc> someone must have written a parser combinator library for ocaml by now
22:55:07 <oerjan> you'd think
22:55:19 <Arc_Koen> now that you mention it, I think I'm two versions late
22:55:22 <oerjan> someone probably even ported parsec, or what can be ported
22:55:49 <Arc_Koen> oh, only one, actually
22:56:25 <Arc_Koen> still, I'd expect those things to be part of the standard library
22:56:46 <Arc_Koen> or maybe they thought Ocaml was about making compilers, not interpreters :)
22:57:02 <Arc_Koen> anyway
22:57:55 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:00:07 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
23:24:42 <Phantom_Hoover> ok
23:24:43 <Phantom_Hoover> it's time
23:24:46 <Phantom_Hoover> for operation regicide
23:24:59 <kmc> Arc_Koen: parsers are equally needed by compilers and interpreters
23:25:41 <Arc_Koen> kmc: but ocaml doesn't seem to have parsing functions part of the runtime library
23:26:01 <Arc_Koen> well, I haven't really looked at ocamllex and ocamlyacc
23:26:01 <kmc> oh i see, you think they think compilers should be written only by extending ocaml
23:26:11 <kmc> ocammllex/yacc are code generators not libraries
23:26:14 <kmc> they are all right iirc
23:26:24 <kmc> pretty old school compared to any parsing combinator library
23:26:33 <kmc> i wrote a java compiler in ocaml for a class project and we used that
23:27:57 <kmc> lenovo's official email communications are so incompetent and poorly written that they are difficult to distinguish from phishing attempts
23:31:11 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:34:26 <Gregor> lol
23:34:27 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: do we get another tantrum out of this?
23:34:59 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't think so
23:36:01 <oerjan> kmc: um do they contain links to strange websites? because other than that, a phisher could just copy a _real_ email, no?
23:36:33 <kmc> yeah but for some reason phishing and spam is usually poorly written
23:36:34 <oerjan> well or put in a virus, or whatever they do
23:39:14 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, i always assumed that was to avoid identification
23:40:59 <oerjan> dear sir or marmalade
23:42:44 <zzo38> Now you can download my Csound plugin source codes and binary and documentation (incomplete) by internet. It includes GEN routine to load DPCM sample played on Famicom.
23:49:55 -!- Gregor has changed nick to RocketJSquirrel.
23:51:32 <zzo38> I also added a delta encoding command, which might be similar to what someone did before with a delta modulation VST plugin.
23:52:41 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
←2012-11-25 2012-11-26 2012-11-27→ ↑2012 ↑all