←2012-12-04 2012-12-05 2012-12-06→ ↑2012 ↑all
00:00:03 <shachaf> elliott: Tell conal that.
00:00:08 <elliott> what
00:00:13 <shachaf> olsner: No significance.
00:00:23 <olsner> shachaf: ok, thanks for sharing
00:00:53 <shachaf> Remember back when I had #concatenative as window 10?
00:00:56 <shachaf> That was crazy.
00:01:43 <olsner> I don't remember that
00:03:44 <oerjan> remember back before we got amnesia?
00:03:51 <fizzie> Seventeen.
00:04:27 <olsner> that's numberwang
00:09:20 <zzo38> gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/0textfile/miscellaneous/PMUIDS
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00:24:38 <shachaf> zzo38: I don't have Gopher.
00:24:41 <shachaf> Can I have an HTTP version?
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00:26:07 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/PMUIDS
00:26:31 <zzo38> The gopher version is considered official, however.
00:27:10 <shachaf> By whom?
00:28:12 <zzo38> By myself.
00:28:28 <zzo38> But, both are the same file, so it doesn't matter.
00:29:11 <olsner> oh, it's about pokemon
00:32:15 <olsner> sweet, class 1 snow warning in my area (class 1 is lowest class and basically means "potentially annoying weather", but still)
00:32:53 <pikhq_> zzo38: Would I be correct in assuming the Nintendo pmuids use National Pokedex numbers?
00:33:17 <pikhq_> i.e. Bulbasaur is pmuid:1
00:33:30 <pikhq_> Erm, pmuids:1
00:34:27 <pikhq_> (and Mew of course pmuids:151)
00:34:45 <zzo38> pikhq_: Yes.
00:34:55 <zzo38> You are correct.
00:35:02 <pikhq_> You may want to specify that. :)
00:36:04 <zzo38> OK. I fixed it.
00:39:21 <oerjan> <- no snow at all but annoyingly cold. for now.
00:40:02 <pikhq_> <- chance of snow this weekend.
00:40:18 <Gregor> <- Saaaan Fraaaanciscoooooooo
00:40:25 <pikhq_> Maybe my girlfriend will actually see a snowy Colorado. That'd be something.
00:40:38 <pikhq_> Gregor: Well, if it snows there the apocalypse is real.
00:40:44 <Gregor> Hehehe
00:41:22 <oerjan> california gets apocalypses all the time, doesn't it?
00:41:59 <olsner> apocalypses really only happen once though
00:43:35 <kmc> SF got an inch of snow in Feb 2011
00:43:39 <kmc> previous occasion was in 1976
00:43:55 <kmc> i would believe that both 1976 and 2011 were apocalypse years
00:44:25 <Fiora> Wow, the last time the LA area got snow was 1962
00:53:36 <oerjan> Fiora: cuban missile crisis, obviously.
01:04:50 <fizzie> We got about 7 inches of snow last weekend.
01:08:21 <fizzie> They did predict up to 16, so I guess it wasn't that bad.
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02:17:25 <kmc> wow a friend just pointed out to me that clang can do things like this: https://gist.github.com/4211534
02:19:00 <Bike> what's movabsq do?
02:20:52 <Fiora> load 64-bit immediate value
02:20:54 <Fiora> I think
02:21:23 <Fiora> btq... bit test @_@
02:22:04 <oerjan> oh
02:22:17 <oerjan> > showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 4294977024 ""
02:22:18 <lambdabot> "100000000000000000010011000000000"
02:22:19 <kmc> yes
02:22:27 <Fiora> \r is 0x0D, \n is 0x0A, \t is 0x09, ' ' is 0x20
02:22:30 <Fiora> so um...
02:22:51 <oerjan> > length $ showIntAtBase 2 intToDigit 4294977024 ""
02:22:53 <lambdabot> 33
02:23:26 <Fiora> it copies a bit from the given register to the carry flag....?
02:23:51 <Fiora> OH.
02:24:03 <Fiora> It's doing a 64-way table lookup using a single register.
02:24:07 <Fiora> 64-bit boolean table lookup
02:24:08 <kmc> yes
02:24:09 <Fiora> omg
02:24:14 <Fiora> that is wonderful
02:24:24 <Fiora> I've never seen it done that way
02:24:38 <Fiora> I've done it before in code with something like...
02:25:06 <Fiora> #define 4BIT_ARRAY_LOOKUP(x) ((constant>>(4*(x)))&0xF)
02:25:22 <Fiora> but bit test saves an instruction if you only need one bit I think...
02:25:31 <Fiora> since you'd have to do shift + and
02:25:44 <Fiora> but gosh I've never seen a compiler automate that, wow
02:28:42 <kmc> yeah
02:28:44 <kmc> i am impressed
02:29:08 <kmc> it must be pretty good for lexers in general
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02:32:15 <Fiora> I'm guessing it's a similar optimization to the one where it combines if( i == 15 || i == 16 || i == 17 ) into if( i >= 15 && i <= 17 )
02:32:22 <Fiora> I think gcc does that one
02:34:10 <Bike> this seems rather more involved, to my ignorant eyes
02:34:39 <Fiora> I think it's just combining N checks, realizing they fall in a 64-bit range, and generating a bit array I think...?
02:34:45 <Fiora> I mean the asm is weird but
02:36:06 <kmc> i'm not sure exactly how the optimization pass is implemented
02:36:10 <kmc> would be interested to find out
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03:59:01 <kmc> http://blog.regehr.org/archives/320 example 7 here is similar
04:00:25 <Fiora> Intel's compiler does some really neat things
04:00:30 <Fiora> One thing I saw it do once was something like this
04:00:52 <Fiora> there was some code where two pointers could alias, and if they actually did, the compiler would have to do something a lot worse
04:00:58 <Fiora> so it made a branch based on whether or not the pointers aliased
04:01:03 <Fiora> and compiled two copies of the code
04:02:19 <Fiora> ooh. I like the thing clang does in example 5, I've never seen gcc do that sort of thing
04:03:18 <Bike> so clang is better at compiling gcc than gcc is, then :P
04:03:50 <Bike> guess that coincidentally answers the question of whether gcc deals with ranges, though
04:04:24 <Fiora> Example 4!! oh god I actually remember that thing from the optimization manual
04:04:46 <Fiora> Intel optimized their instruction decoder in some weird way that makes handling length-changing prefixes insanely slow (like, 6 cycles per instruction slow)
04:05:00 <Fiora> oops
04:06:03 <Fiora> wow, intel did a crazy good job on example 3.
04:06:46 <kmc> yeah iirc intel's chips have a few decoder units, and only one of them can handle the full x86 syntax with all its stupid bells and whistles
04:07:09 <Fiora> I think it's worse than that, it holds up the entire pipeline for something like 6 cycles per instruction
04:07:14 <kmc> ouch
04:07:20 <Fiora> I think this is a new thing though
04:07:27 <Fiora> I think the old rule was "3 simple instructions, 1 complex instruction" per cycle
04:07:46 <Fiora> My guess is they have some kind of predecoder that guesses the lengths of instructions and if it's wrong they have to flush the whole thing and start over
04:08:26 <Fiora> and example 1. I wonder what the conditions for able-to-statically-evaluate-loops is for each compiler... and I just read that article backwards <_<;
04:09:54 <Fiora> http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2012-03/msg01932.html oooh here's the patch for gcc to fix that 16-bit immediate issue.
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04:13:37 <kmc> http://blog.regehr.org/archives/324 there are some followups here
04:13:39 <kmc> another gcc patch
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04:15:13 * Fiora throws example 4 at bike because division by multiplication taking advantage of limited input range
04:15:36 <Bike> mruh, i'm totally out of my depth here, you know
04:15:46 <Fiora> but you were just talking about that the other day right :<
04:15:56 <Bike> yeah but i'm still shit at it
04:16:03 <Fiora> you are nooooot
04:16:38 <oerjan> multiply and conquer
04:16:44 <Fiora> you are really smart okay >_<
04:18:54 <kmc> where is shachaf
04:25:36 <SingingBoyo> kmc: idk, I think he was on #haskell earlier though
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04:26:04 <Sgeo|web> Did coppro use the opportunity to beat me?
04:26:33 <Sgeo|web> In case not: elliott monqy Fiora
04:27:44 <coppro> I did not :(
04:27:54 <Fiora> thankies
04:32:22 <shachaf> hi kmc
04:32:33 <shachaf> Palo Alto
04:32:43 <kmc> https://gist.github.com/4211534
04:33:35 <oerjan> i'm sorry you cannot be at palo alto, that's a mythical place from legends
04:33:51 <kmc> it's a big tree
04:33:56 <kmc> are you in the tree shachaf
04:34:41 <shachaf> I've never actually seen the tree, though I think it's relatively close to where I live?
04:34:44 <shachaf> Maybe I should go see it.
04:34:50 * shachaf looks.
04:35:06 <oerjan> you aren't confusing it with yggdrasil?
04:35:22 <Fiora> yggdrasil? watch out for the FOEs
04:37:27 <shachaf> Oh, it's using the char as a bit index into a 64-bit integer?
04:37:32 <shachaf> That's clever.
04:38:02 <kmc> yes
04:38:49 <oerjan> "Efforts to restore the tree's health by the Southern Pacific Railroad, the City of Palo Alto and local citizens included progressive pruning off of the dying treetop, addition of soil and mulch at the tree’s base, removal of dead limbs, pesticide spraying and installation of a pipe up its trunk to bring water to the top of the tree.[6] Although the tree stands today at only 68% of its former stature, it enjoys greater health than nearly a century a
04:39:41 <oerjan> ago."
04:41:03 * shachaf wonders how general whatever it is that does that optimization is.
04:41:19 <Fiora> it'd be cool to see the code for it
04:42:49 <kmc> there is some FUD about how Supertrain will murder El Palo Alto
04:42:52 <kmc> NIMBY FUD
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04:43:30 <kmc> shachaf: i tried it on various subsets of ASCII 0..128 and it seemed to use the bitmask
04:43:56 <shachaf> Well, yes, I assume it's not *just* for the characters " \r\n\t"
04:44:17 <kmc> but i think it won't branch to use two different bitmasks, one for 0..63 and one for 64..128
04:44:29 <kmc> for a randomly selected subset of 0..255 it used a function pointer lookup table
04:44:33 <kmc> that's 2 kB!
04:44:49 <kmc> i would have thought a table of single bytes is better
04:44:55 <Fiora> a function pointer lookup table, wow
04:45:00 <kmc> since you are just going to load that byte to %rax and then ret, anyway
04:45:02 <Fiora> that sounds a little bit overkill
04:45:34 <kmc> i hope that ICC loads the entire table into a YMM register :D
04:46:15 <Fiora> I don't think there's a simd bit test though...
04:46:30 <Fiora> so you'd probably have to set a bit and shuffle it into place?
04:46:56 <Fiora> pslldq/psrldq are byte shifts only
04:48:31 <shachaf> kmc: Given that you can't even get a CPU with AVX2 these days...
04:49:27 <Fiora> could use AVX with float instructions, like doing a vpand and then a vcomiss or something...
04:49:31 <Fiora> but icky
04:50:17 <shachaf> Hmm, last time I looked at the AVX1 instructions they were very limited for what I wanted to do.
04:50:33 <Fiora> yeah, it's really hard to do anything useful integer-wise with them since it's float-only >_<
04:50:51 <Fiora> I've played some with AVX2 but it's not very satisfying because it's not like the emulator can tell me how fast it's going to run
04:51:20 <Bike> obviously we need bit test functions for floats
04:53:57 <shachaf> What's with all the people with nicks that start with an uppercase letter?
04:54:25 <shachaf> I thought that was illegal.
04:54:50 <Bike> You're illegal.
04:55:04 <Fiora> um.... it's... it's like a name, so...
04:56:14 <Sgeo|web> Reading about some tools on BackTrack Linux
04:56:24 <Sgeo|web> Would anyone ever actually fall for this http://www.question-defense.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/2-22-2010-11-11-15-PM.png
04:56:39 <Bike> are you serious? of course!
04:56:55 <elliott> i would fall for that were i not paying attention
05:04:18 <Sgeo|web> Is Kubuntu still shit?
05:05:45 <Sgeo|web> Going by http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1114379-kubuntu-1210-review/ perhaps not
05:09:33 <Sgeo|web> Is it unreasonable for me to want to use XenClient?
05:09:47 <Sgeo|web> And thus run multiple OSes at the same time?
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05:13:14 <kmc> Sgeo|web: of course
05:16:32 <shachaf> This is the code responsible: https://github.com/llvm-mirror/llvm/blob/master/lib/CodeGen/SelectionDAG/SelectionDAGBuilder.cpp#L2349
05:18:11 <Fiora> geez, some arches don't even have shl?
05:18:48 <Fiora> so it does some tests to see if it's worthwhile...
05:19:42 <Fiora> that is extremely cool
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05:32:22 <kmc> hm i wonder which ones don't have it
05:32:29 <kmc> shachaf: thanks for finding that code btw
05:32:41 <Fiora> hmm. 8086 only had shl and shr by 1 I think
05:32:55 <Fiora> Yeah, thanks, that was really cool to look at evenif I'm clueless about llvm internals
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05:40:14 <shachaf> Unfortunately GHC doesn't generate code that LLVM recognizes for this trick.
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06:36:15 <fizzie> I'm reasonably sure x86 had N-shifts from the get-go.
06:36:49 <fizzie> "To reduce the maximum execution time, the 80386 does not allow shift counts greater than 31. If a shift count greater than 31 is attempted, only the bottom five bits of the shift count are used. (The 8086 uses all eight bits of the shift count.)" sort of suggests so too.
06:39:19 <fizzie> Z80 (and maybe 8080?) can only shift by one, though.
06:39:59 <oerjan> 6502 only had shift by one iirc
06:40:47 <Bike> so the real question is, is there an llvm backend for the NES.
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07:02:31 <Sgeo|web> I should watch some Twilight Zone episodes someday
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07:02:43 <Sgeo|web> Are all of the episodes considered classics, or just the ones I've heard of?
07:11:47 <quintopia> just the ones you've heard of
07:12:12 <quintopia> monsters/maple street, it's a good life, handful of others
07:12:17 <shachaf> I haven't heard of any.
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07:14:53 <pikhq_> Sgeo|web: A significant number of them are classics.
07:15:06 <pikhq_> shachaf: Then you have been living under a damned rock.
07:15:19 <Sgeo|web> Should I worry about spoilers?
07:15:30 <shachaf> I've heard of the Twilight Zone, just not any specific episodes.
07:15:34 <pikhq_> You have probably already experienced the spoilers.
07:15:41 <Sgeo|web> (Already spoiled It's a Good Life and Monsters/Maple Street, and know of that one with the glasses)
07:15:46 <pikhq_> shachaf: Welp, you've got 5 seasons to binge.
07:15:58 <shachaf> "no thx"
07:17:03 <quintopia> nightmare at 20k feet
07:19:46 <shachaf> kmc: Is mosh vulnerable to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closely_related_key attacks?
07:24:10 <zzo38> If you know anyone writing pokemon battle simulators and other pokemon related computer programming, or who makes up the new pokemons, you can notify them about PMUIDS.
07:24:34 <shachaf> Hmm, I know one person on IRC.
07:24:42 <shachaf> zzo38: Do you know about PMUIDS?
07:24:48 <shachaf> zzo38: gopher://zzo38computer.org:70/0textfile/miscellaneous/PMUIDS
07:25:18 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, I wrote it. But, I mean other people who use it; currently I do not use it (although in future I may use it)
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07:28:07 <zzo38> If there is anything else wrong/unclear, you can notify me about that; I already made clearer about the official numbers
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07:30:26 <shachaf> zzo38: It's possible that PMUIDS would be more popular if it preferred HTTP to Gopher.
07:31:16 <zzo38> Well, the same file can be accessed by HTTP and it is the same file either way so it doesn't matter.
07:32:24 <zzo38> The reason it isn't more popular is because I wrote it today.
07:42:57 <zzo38> And now for something different (and unrelated):
07:43:31 <zzo38> A puzzle game I am designing: It is like a cross between Hero Hearts and Magic: the Gathering, with a little bit of chess and Dungeons&Dragons.
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08:27:55 <GreyKnight> The topic will probably not help confused newcomers :-P
08:28:31 <Sgeo|web> elliott: Fiora monqy: coppro failed again
08:28:54 <Sgeo|web> Unless the time I came in here was after the second update, which I was unaware of
08:32:46 <GreyKnight> I was reading the ideas list, I really like the idea of the language that only has one big program
08:33:05 <GreyKnight> ("communist language")
08:33:23 <GreyKnight> Trying to figure out a way to enforce it at the minute
08:35:04 <Sgeo|web> One big program as in, only one program of a certain complexity, or, only one program and that program is large/
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08:35:16 <GreyKnight> The latter
08:35:49 <GreyKnight> If you want to write code in this language it has to go into the same program that everybody else is writing
08:35:50 <Sgeo|web> Some obvious but boring ways to do it come to mind
08:35:57 <Sgeo|web> Oh, wait, huh?
08:36:36 <GreyKnight> The ideas page suggests having a public wiki as "the editor" for the source code
08:37:24 <GreyKnight> Did I explain it confusingly?
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08:38:58 <GreyKnight> Can't think of a non-boring solution :-/
08:41:43 <Deewiant> Distributed Befunge: a shared Funge-Space into which all programs are written, every new writer gets a random storage offset and starting position; if collisions happen, problems ensue.
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08:42:10 <GreyKnight> "deal with it"
08:42:25 <GreyKnight> Hmm
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08:44:20 <greyooze> Hmph, where was I
08:44:37 <greyooze> Oh yeah, the shared space idea has merit, I like that
08:46:58 <greyooze> oh, idea:
08:47:01 <zzo38> How well do you think it would work to output the number of activated loads or total pressure of a noit o' mnain worb as a audio signal?
08:48:17 <greyooze> The interpreter for communistlang keeps track of the last code it was asked to run. The next code you supply it must be a purely additive diff from the previous
08:48:43 <greyooze> zzo38, you could assign different tones to the loads
08:49:47 <zzo38> greyooze: Yes you could do that too, I suppose, how well would that work?
08:50:25 <greyooze> I don't know, but it sounds like it would be fun to find out!
08:50:57 <greyooze> Perhaps total pressure controls the volume?
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08:52:36 <GreyKnight> (A puddle of ooze springs up and assembles itself into a knight!)
08:53:55 <fizzie> There was a distributed something conversation here a few years back. (But that's all I remember of it.)
08:54:43 <GreyKnight> "Somebody used the word 'distributed' once. That's all I know." :o)
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08:58:10 <GreyKnight> let's see, it needs to be easy to compose new code on top of the old
08:58:42 <GreyKnight> And I guess need to handle command-line args easily since doubtless lots of them will be used
08:59:04 <GreyKnight> "Swiss-army-knife" programs tend to end up that way!
08:59:20 <GreyKnight> Basically this is busybox writ large :-D
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09:23:26 <elliott> fizzie: what was that message splitting script you used
09:23:47 <shachaf> /script load splitlong.pl ?
09:23:50 <monqy> the one that isn't autowrap. i know this because i'm using autowrap
09:25:26 <fizzie> splitlong.pl, yes.
09:27:23 <fizzie> Really, it's pretty much equivalent to autowrap, except it does the splitting on its own (instead of Text::Wrap) and has /set'able settings for the maximum length and what prefix/suffix to use for continuation lines, as well as the (sometimes misworking) automagical maximum length calculation.
09:30:09 <shachaf> monqy: /join #haskell-lens
09:30:15 <shachaf> You can learn lens!
09:30:26 <monqy> :'
09:30:30 <shachaf> ':
09:30:32 <monqy> does that really work ?
09:31:02 <monqy> (i decided to use autowrap because i didn't want to /set maximum length and i didn't want the misworking)
09:31:13 <monqy> the does that really work ? was directed at lens
09:31:41 <elliott> fizzie: Does Text::Wrap have any exciting edgecases?
09:32:08 <shachaf> monqy: lens doesn't work at all
09:32:11 <shachaf> "sorry"
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09:35:35 <fizzie> elliott: I don't think Text::Wrap does anything particularly clever, or how well it handles edge cases. splitlong's custom splitting is pretty ad-hoc, it just splits at the rightmost " " character unless that would give a line shorter than maxlen/10+4 character, in which case it just splits at maxlen even in mid-word.
09:36:24 <elliott> fizzie: Can't you make a perfect version?
09:36:38 <fizzie> I don't really know what else I'd need.
09:36:54 <fizzie> Also, autowrap seems to have a "autowrap: unable to split long line. sent as-is" special case, but I don't know if that ever fires.
09:37:12 <fizzie> It happens if Text::Wrap returns a line longer than what has been requested.
09:38:31 <fizzie> According to the documentation, that never happens.
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09:49:36 <Sgeo|web> Are there any emulators that faithfully emulate a CPU such that, it can emulate a Pentium well enough to be vulnerable to f00f?
09:50:38 <olsner> I think f00f was a bug because the Pentium didn't successfully emulate a Pentium
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10:31:54 <Sgeo|web> Hi Phantom_Hoover did you see the updates?
10:31:59 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
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12:13:55 <elliott> fizzie: Which script should I use. :(
12:14:58 <Deewiant> I used splitlong.
12:15:22 <shachaf> /script load splitlong.pl
12:15:29 <shachaf> "it just works" elliott!!
12:15:50 <fizzie> It doesn't work if you don't have it!
12:16:00 <shachaf> But it comes with it.
12:16:10 <Deewiant> It does?
12:16:15 <shachaf> Well, it did for me!
12:16:24 <elliott> I hear it doesn't work if you have a cloak.
12:16:29 <shachaf> I guess elliott doesn't use Debian.
12:16:41 <Deewiant> Okay, it appears to on Arch at least.
12:16:42 <fizzie> $ dpkg-query -L irssi | grep -i split
12:16:42 <fizzie> /usr/share/irssi/scripts/splitlong.pl
12:16:45 <fizzie> Well, I'll be.
12:16:48 <elliott> solidity uses Debian.
12:16:54 <elliott> Anyway I hear it doesn't work if you have a cloak.
12:16:59 <elliott> Also its splitting sounds ad-hoc! Is Text::Wrap ad hoc?
12:17:20 <fizzie> It's not any better, if that's what you mean.
12:17:47 <fizzie> It might not have the same per-ten-plus-four rule, but that's about it.
12:18:03 <fizzie> It's still "split at spaces, or if there are no spaces, just split at maximum width".
12:18:36 <Deewiant> The Arch package only includes the .tar.bz2 from irssi.org so presumably it does come with it.
12:20:16 <fizzie> Perhaps you should use schlong.irc. It's the ircII script for a trüe warrior.
12:20:25 <fizzie> http://packetstorm.foofus.com/irc/scripts/schlong.irc there's one version right there.
12:21:02 <fizzie> Just look at that stuff.
12:21:20 <fizzie> (You did ask a generic question about "which script".)
12:23:44 <nortti> who else still uses ircII?
12:24:46 <fizzie> Just the /mircwar commands are the greatest. "/cmosbomb <nick> - CMOS bomb. Probably the worst of them all, this bomb overwrites the CMOS of the victim's PC and replaces it with absolute crap. This often causes dataloss, hardware configuration loss, permanent BIOS damage, permanent mouse damage, and other problems." (It tries to DCC-send some bad heavy-metal poetry with the file name CLOCK$.)
12:24:51 <elliott> fizzie: I think this might be the most 90s file on the internet.
12:25:06 <elliott> I love it
12:25:36 <fizzie> "coal shoved into my skull - the time of beasts - a time to raise the mind plants seeds of time defined within my loathsome eye - the is black of rage - red."
12:25:40 <fizzie> That's what it sends.
12:25:46 <nortti> does it include winnuke?
12:25:48 <fizzie> (I abbreviated it a bit.)
12:26:14 <elliott> alias netcum {
12:26:14 <elliott> if ([$0]) {
12:26:14 <elliott> eval msg $0 $ctcpstring
12:26:14 <elliott> }{
12:26:14 <elliott> secho Usage: /NETCUM <nick>. Attempts to crash a netcom user.
12:26:16 <elliott> }}
12:26:27 <nortti> :P
12:26:31 <fizzie> nortti: Well, it uses an external $nuke_pgm.
12:26:51 <nortti> ah
12:27:22 <nortti> back when ircII was actually used...
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12:27:57 <fizzie> I don't see an +++ATH0 ping, but it could just have been obfuscamated.
12:28:12 <fizzie> That was also very a popular thing to do those days.
12:28:20 <elliott> truly great functionality
12:28:24 <elliott> if ([$poopy]==[zmodem])
12:28:32 <fizzie> (You can do it with ping -p too.)
12:28:34 <elliott> timer 3 //^topic #^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ DiE mIRC BiTCH - schlOng
12:28:41 <elliott> christ
12:28:56 <nortti> that messed uo my curses so bad
12:28:59 <elliott> "Usage: /VAXKILL <nick>. Works on VAX 1.7.3 users." wow
12:29:27 <elliott> ^assign BOOMSTR <CTCP>ECHO ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ BooM We ArE RoXiN jo0 AsS ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥
12:29:33 <elliott> ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥ ¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥¥<CTCP>
12:29:39 <elliott> this is art
12:29:41 <fizzie> elliott: The "vax killer" is also /ctcp $0 action says hello.
12:29:52 <elliott> secho Neato yet sometimes annoying jumping status logo is now $schroll\.
12:30:17 <fizzie> I should check if my schlong version is newer or later. I think it had some admonishments at top about how it is strictly forbidden to distribute it to "lamers".
12:30:22 <fizzie> (If I can still find it.)
12:30:37 <elliott> fizzie: this script is basically what I imagine EFNet to still be like
12:31:25 <fizzie> There are also all those things targeted to users of different scripts.
12:33:02 <fizzie> See the eval ^if's at the very end; those are to detect if you've loaded an inferior script before loading schlong; it quits if that has happened.
12:33:34 <fizzie> I can't find schlong.irc. :/
12:33:42 <Deewiant> Which might be sensible given the invasive nature of these kinds of scripts?
12:33:54 <Deewiant> (Not that that's necessarily the reason.)
12:35:13 <fizzie> I think I've seen that /topicflood live.
12:35:39 <fizzie> It updates the topic on every on-channel message/notice, to that message's contents.
12:35:50 <fizzie> I'm not sure what the point of it is.
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12:38:15 <elliott> Deewiant: Well, not since "quit" here means "actually /quit IRC with an author-disparaging message".
12:38:32 <Deewiant> Ah, then not.
12:38:55 <fizzie> There are nine pages of "hacking scripts" in this /crahd/♣ Hacking ♣/cd5hack/Hacking/irc/scripts/ folder of this weird Polish file-sharing site.
12:39:12 -!- elliott has set topic: ♣ Hacking ♣ http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
12:40:27 <fizzie> Also in the comments of "furricane"'s "Whiskerino 2009" profile someone is proud of "hav[ing] my nickname mentioned in the schlong.irc (war) script".
12:41:38 <fizzie> I don't know if EFnet is still like this.
12:41:42 <fizzie> I would kind of guess no.
12:41:53 <Deewiant> The one channel I'm on isn't.
12:42:03 <Deewiant> But maybe the sample size is too small.
12:43:51 <fizzie> elliott: If you get tired of schlong.irc, you can continue by inspecting all the scripts of ftp://igor.onlinedirect.bg/packetstorm/irc/scripts/ -- though judging from the file size, schlong seems to be the biggest thing.
12:44:10 <fizzie> (Maybe it's also the most famous, given that even I had heard of it?)
12:44:31 <Deewiant> Some of those are gzipped, and also tarballs.
12:44:42 <Deewiant> Or zipped.
12:46:40 <fizzie> That's true.
12:47:49 <Deewiant> The biggest one of those, osbx1c.tgz, is 295 K when unpacked. Although the tarball is bigger; GNU tar complains about "lone zero block at 940".
12:49:34 <fizzie> It seems very professionally done.
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12:49:39 <fizzie> There's a README.FIRST and all.
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12:51:17 <Deewiant> 940 * 512 is the size of the tarball, so I guess there's just a nowadays-improper ending.
12:51:17 <elliott> README.SECOND
12:51:59 <Deewiant> I guess tarballs just pad small files; I didn't know that.
12:53:01 <Sgeo|web> I wrote a quine
12:53:15 <Sgeo|web> Although, does it count as a quine if it doesn't print unless you put it on the repl?
12:53:48 <Deewiant> If there's a non-repl possibility and it's not a quine there, it counts as a repl-only quine.
12:54:13 <Sgeo|web> ((fn [s] (list s (list (quote quote) s))) (quote (fn [s] (list s (list (quote quote) s)))))
12:54:33 <Sgeo|web> I think I can safely say I learned how typical quines work, I think
12:56:26 <elliott> ((lambda (x) (list x (list quote x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list quote x)))))
12:56:59 <elliott> Oh, I guess (quote quote) is actually what you want there. I seem to recall a more elegant phrasing...
13:00:10 <Sgeo|web> With a language with good semiquotes I'd imagine it could be written a lot more cleanly
13:09:54 <fizzie> (let ((p '(lambda (q) `(let ((p ',q)) ((eval p) p))))) ((eval p) p)) ; I made this just now, I suppose it's also kinda typical.
13:12:28 <Sgeo|web> What's a good example of an atypical quine?
13:12:50 <Sgeo|web> Maybe something in an esoteric language where the typical quine patterns don't work as well?
13:18:23 <fizzie> ^ul (aS(:^)S):^
13:18:23 <fungot> (aS(:^)S):^
13:18:31 <fizzie> Any quine discussion needs a typical Underload quiine.
13:18:48 <elliott> ^ul (:aSS):aSS
13:18:48 <fungot> (:aSS):aSS
13:19:00 <fizzie> I try to avoid the ass.
13:19:13 <Jafet> (:^)
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13:37:39 <Deewiant> ";'D2/';abc+y1{2u$$u'D2/>:#,_@";
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13:45:47 <micahjohnston> repl-only quine is best quine
13:46:33 <micahjohnston> > ap(++)show"ap(++)show"
13:46:35 <lambdabot> "ap(++)show\"ap(++)show\""
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14:05:42 <Deewiant> ";'D2/';abc+y2+1{u'D2/>:#,_@"; a bit nicer and shorter
14:07:22 <nooga> 5
14:07:48 <elliott> Deewiant: (What language?)
14:07:50 <elliott> Oh, Funge.
14:07:51 <elliott> 98?
14:08:53 <fizzie> With those semicolons, must be.
14:11:22 <fizzie> bc+y for the stack size, though... I don't think I've used y once.
14:13:22 <fizzie> And that whole 1{u deal; man, Deewiant's code is so 98y.
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14:22:03 <Deewiant> I couldn't think of a 93 pg-less way of reversing the stack. :-P
14:23:37 <Deewiant> Or walking the (almost) whole program from east to west inside " nicely.
14:24:09 <Deewiant> So I figured I'd smite y'all with some proper 98.
14:25:33 <elliott> I'm smotten.
14:27:39 <Deewiant> It's Befunge-98 specifically, though, since it uses 2 instead of the appropriate y spell.
14:27:54 <Deewiant> I was lazy there.
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14:36:19 <fizzie> Deewiant: <> #"....." ?
14:39:48 <Deewiant> That's decent. It misses 4 chars but that's probably as good as it gets.
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14:43:20 <fizzie> r #"...." if you want to dip very shallowly into the 98 pool.
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14:45:17 <fizzie> Or ? #"...." which would give you a 93-quine that works only if you're lucky.
14:46:12 <Deewiant> r brings it down to 3, but up to 98 again.
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14:51:25 <Deewiant> Oh, you mentioned r already. Sorry, I'm on my phone and thus managed to miss it.
14:54:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Huh, I got an email from someone telling me not to be mean about BF derivatives.
14:56:27 <quintopia> but you can be mean about second derivatives
14:56:32 <quintopia> BF Hessians
15:03:32 <fizzie> Just don't be mean about a BF Jacobian.
15:06:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: was it urban muller
15:06:10 <Phantom_Hoover> No.
15:06:21 <fizzie> How about some other urban miller?
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15:07:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Although they do seem to think my hate of BF derivatives comes from a hatred of Brainfuck.
15:07:45 <Phantom_Hoover> "There's an esolang better than BF, it's called INTERCAL. If we all made INTERCAL derivatives, would you hate us?"
15:10:01 <fizzie> It almost sounds like they were trying to pull the Words on you.
15:10:22 <fizzie> ("Hold! What you are doing to us is wrong! Why do you do this thing?" "Alien, you have spoken the Words, and you have spoken them rightly. We will tell you our reasons why we enslave all other sentient life.")
15:10:23 <Phantom_Hoover> oh no
15:10:35 <Phantom_Hoover> hmm
15:10:41 <Phantom_Hoover> after i explain can i kill them
15:10:42 <fizzie> It's a Star Control 2 thing.
15:10:50 <fizzie> Yes, it would be keeping in character.
15:10:50 <Phantom_Hoover> i know that!
15:11:07 <fizzie> Just making sure.
15:11:18 <Phantom_Hoover> also don't the kohr-ah say something different
15:12:07 <fizzie> "THE WORDS!... the Words... the words alien, you have spoken the Words. You have spoken them rightly. We will explain to you about the Dnyarri our slavemasters the Taalo, our only friends... whom we exterminated and our reasons why we cleanse the galaxy of all other sentient life."
15:12:33 <fizzie> They'd kind of have to say something at least slightly different, seeing that they're not in the enslavement business.
15:13:41 <Phantom_Hoover> leaning more towards the kohr-ah methodology here
15:14:03 <fizzie> Yes, you certainly don't want any BF-derivative-liking slaves.
15:16:02 <fizzie> You can explain your dislike of BF derivatives to them better, and then close with: "You have heard our words, and perhaps now you understand us a bit better. But now, it is time for us to cleanse you."
15:16:06 <Phantom_Hoover> they'd only be good for making bf derivatives
15:16:07 <fizzie> (And then kill them.)
15:20:33 <Phantom_Hoover> @tell atriq Oi, your my blog is getting me hatemail.
15:20:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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16:32:25 <Arc_Koen> Phantom_Hoover: well apparently you've done your job wrong
16:32:33 <Phantom_Hoover> how
16:32:49 <Arc_Koen> by having 'them' believe it's brainfuck your hate
16:33:27 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm not trying to educate them, just instill fear
16:33:54 <Arc_Koen> oh
16:33:58 <Arc_Koen> in that case, carry on
16:34:11 <Arc_Koen> but you know what they say
16:34:20 <Phantom_Hoover> i don't care what they say!
16:34:27 <Arc_Koen> you can't get a whole galaxy's faith through fear
16:34:38 <Arc_Koen> you have to give them a choice!
16:35:21 <Arc_Koen> well that's what they tried to explain to the Ori but so far their "adore us or die" strategy has been working pretty well
16:36:39 <Arc_Koen> btw do you brainbrick underload-derivative authors as well?
16:37:05 <Phantom_Hoover> how many underload derivatives are there
16:39:13 <Arc_Koen> well Chris Pressey just made one
16:39:35 <FreeFull> Negative three
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16:45:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Arc_Koen, is it an instruction substitution or does it add like 2 new instructions for forking or something
16:46:08 <Arc_Koen> weeeeeeell I'm not familiar with underload
16:46:39 <Arc_Koen> but from what I understand, it substitutes sequences of three bits for underload instructions
16:49:19 <Phantom_Hoover> wh
16:49:22 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey
16:49:23 <Phantom_Hoover> no
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17:54:14 <Gregor> Heeeey, who nixed my wonderful log URL :(
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18:03:04 <quintopia> the nixer
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19:21:56 <zzo38> Please example of Expload
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20:02:54 <zzo38> Do you know that it is possible to rewrite a constant in Csound?
20:06:29 <rapido> Csound: 1300 opcodes?
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20:09:37 <zzo38> rapido: More than that, I think.
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20:10:33 <zzo38> Especially since I have added some, too.
20:11:25 <rapido> ah, opcodes that are run by a virtual machine?
20:12:49 <zzo38> Yes, like that.
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20:13:40 <rapido> how does the community decide that a new opcode should be part of the vm?
20:14:20 <zzo38> They are written in plugins.
20:16:28 <rapido> what is the execution model: data flow?
20:17:09 <zzo38> There is three execution models: score, i-rate, and k-rate.
20:18:50 <zzo38> The score tells it what instrument to play, and then the i-rated opcodes run, and then it runs in the k-rated loops during performance.
20:19:44 <rapido> of course the lag must be minimal
20:20:10 <zzo38> If it is used with real-time then, yes it must be. But, it can be operated without real-time, too.
20:21:12 <rapido> so what's interesting about Csound - programming language wise?
20:21:41 <rapido> is it esoteric ?
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20:23:07 <zzo38> If I implement a plugin for Proce esolang, then I guess so.
20:24:51 <rapido> … reading on proce
20:25:39 <zzo38> But I may also implement plugin for noit o' mnain worb.
20:26:32 <rapido> this plugin stuff feels like cheating!
20:27:54 <zzo38> Many things can also be implemented using Csound itself, although it the program is large it can make it very slow.
20:30:23 <rapido> does Csound make sure that plugins are well behaved?
20:30:46 <rapido> (guess not if you allow proce as a plugin)
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20:54:49 <coppro> ugh
20:54:57 <coppro> are me and Sgeo actually getting into a war about this?
20:55:20 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:56:07 <zzo38> War about what?
20:57:48 <coppro> homestuck updates
20:58:20 <Fiora> ?
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21:12:21 <oerjan> `addquote <zzo38> The reason it isn't more popular is because I wrote it today.
21:12:24 <HackEgo> 864) <zzo38> The reason it isn't more popular is because I wrote it today.
21:18:04 <fizzie> Is it more popular now than it was then?
21:18:24 <oerjan> well i think it's still today.
21:18:31 <oerjan> so a bit early to ask.
21:21:51 <oerjan> <fizzie> "coal shoved into my skull - the time of beasts - a time to raise the mind plants seeds of time defined within my loathsome eye - the is black of rage - red."
21:21:55 <oerjan> dog. owner.
21:22:12 <oerjan> (what do you mean it was a quote)
21:24:20 <oerjan> did elliott actually crash soundnfury's irc client in the logs.
21:24:36 <oerjan> i think there might be rules against that. or something.
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21:27:35 <oerjan> alternatively, maybe soundnfury actually tried that command elliott pasted, in which case i guess it's karma.
21:27:56 <oerjan> (what do you mean, it may have been coincidence? no such thing!)
21:28:02 <Taneb> Is it bad I'm parsing the topic in terms of Homestuck shipping?
21:28:22 <oerjan> don't ask me, i'm not into homestuck
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21:28:45 <Fiora> Taneb: that was actually my first instinct too <_<;
21:30:47 <Taneb> :/
21:30:55 <Taneb> I don't think you ever followed me back on Tumblr?
21:33:55 <oerjan> <Sgeo|web> What's a good example of an atypical quine?
21:34:02 <oerjan> my /// one, of course.
21:34:29 <oerjan> underload just makes it _too_ easy.
21:35:01 <oerjan> <micahjohnston> > ap(++)show"ap(++)show"
21:36:11 <Taneb> > (++)<*>show"(++)<*>show"
21:36:13 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `b0 -> b0'
21:36:13 <lambdabot> with actual type `GHC....
21:36:32 <kmc> > ap(++)show"ap(++)show"
21:36:34 <lambdabot> "ap(++)show\"ap(++)show\""
21:36:46 <kmc> nice
21:37:03 <oerjan> > var$ap(++)show"var$ap(++)show"
21:37:04 <lambdabot> var$ap(++)show"var$ap(++)show"
21:37:58 <oerjan> > var$ap(++)show"> var$ap(++)show"
21:37:59 <lambdabot> > var$ap(++)show"> var$ap(++)show"
21:38:35 <oerjan> ?where ?where
21:38:35 <lambdabot> ?where ?where
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21:45:37 <Deewiant> <> #"75*:1-\:3-::+2-:2->:#,_37+:3*4+,,@" that there Befunge-93
21:46:24 <oerjan> !befunge <> #"75*:1-\:3-::+2-:2->:#,_37+:3*4+,,@"
21:46:26 <EgoBot> ​<> #"75*:1-\:3-::+2-:2->:#,_37+:3*4+,,@"
21:49:09 <Deewiant> I prefer the -98 version :-P
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21:55:21 <Deewiant> ";'D2/';a7y5*d+y7y+1{u'D2/>:#,_@"; dimension-generic now.
22:01:17 <fizzie> yyy.
22:02:02 <Deewiant> The third y saves a character in total.
22:02:41 <fizzie> Am I the only one who sees https://dl.dropbox.com/u/113389132/Snaps/20121205-vr-mainos.png as a... sort-of inappropriate ad?
22:03:08 <Deewiant> (The alternative is : after the first y and y+1- instead of y7y+)
22:03:17 <zzo38> fizzie: I don't know that language.
22:03:30 <Deewiant> zzo38: I think he meant the picture.
22:03:39 <fizzie> zzo38: It's Finnish; but I just meant the image, right.
22:04:01 <Deewiant> fizzie: I see your point but I'm not sure I would've noticed if you hadn't mentioned it, so it's not that bad IMO.
22:04:54 <zzo38> I made a Csound plugin to interpret noit o' mnain worb. I added two extensions, being ; for comments and ? for a negative load.
22:04:58 <fizzie> Deewiant: I suppose it's more me than the ad, then.
22:05:14 <Deewiant> Yup.
22:05:44 <zzo38> Now you can list that implementation if you want to.
22:11:52 <oerjan> today starring...
22:14:16 <ion> Getaway in Finland http://youtu.be/VrZ9_H1qXxg
22:15:38 <zzo38> aload, apressure, abobules worb Sfilename, xfreq, xsource, xsink, [imaxpressure], [iexponent], [iskip]
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22:26:35 <fizzie> Any highlights? That's like half an hour.
22:32:39 <ion> The guy uses the turn signals. :-D
22:33:05 <ion> Nothing spectacular at least up to 33:44, just a standard chase.
22:34:07 <fizzie> The roads seem to be getting smaller and smaller, judging from the thumbnails.
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22:40:46 <fizzie> Aw, the guy in the back seemed so disappointed for the last second or so.
22:42:00 <ion> 36:57 (on radio) “Can you give your whereabouts?” “I wish I knew.” The Finnish police run a professional operation.
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23:46:26 <megalinux> hello i'm from brazil you's peak portuguese ?
23:48:38 <oerjan> not me, i don't know if anyone else here does
23:49:33 <megalinux> peak please :(
23:49:48 <oerjan> i don't know portuguese
23:50:07 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
23:51:00 <megalinux> ok :D i'm orrible en inglish :(
23:52:47 <oerjan> argh i tried /list *-pt but it seems to list all channels :(
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