←2012-12-15 2012-12-16 2012-12-17→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:30:00 <Vorpal> elliott, what was up with that guy in the desert sub-plot btw?
00:30:05 <Vorpal> I never totally got that
00:30:32 <elliott> ...
00:30:36 <elliott> it... doesn't admit simple explanation if you didn't figure out what was going on all the way through
00:30:50 <Vorpal> elliott, that is like MOST of homestuck :P
00:31:20 <shachaf> elliott: I thought you didn't even read that?
00:31:34 <elliott> I don't.
00:32:24 <shachaf> monqy: Do you?
00:32:32 <monqy> what
00:32:52 <shachaf> at
00:33:16 <monqy> hi
00:34:01 <hagb4rd> what is the idea behind newkitten?
00:34:15 <Sgeo> "However, no known interpreter ever, not even the reference interpreter, seems to have implemented any part of this other than the rules about parentheses, and this is therefore arguably not part of the language."
00:34:22 <Sgeo> Is this talking about the whole " <> [] thing?
00:34:43 <elliott> yes
00:34:56 <Sgeo> Ok
00:35:02 <Fiora> Vorpal: http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/WV
00:35:25 <Fiora> http://images.wikia.com/mspaintadventures/images/9/99/00710.gif homestuck.gif
00:35:25 <hagb4rd> i don't like cats anyway
00:35:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, which language
00:35:45 <Sgeo> Underload
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00:38:24 <hagb4rd> `pastelog newkitten
00:39:09 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3209
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00:41:36 <Vorpal> Fiora, hm
00:42:10 <Fiora> the wiki is really relaly good for refreshing on characters and events and stuff
00:42:16 <Fiora> I'd be clueless without it
00:43:44 <Vorpal> Fiora, I stopped reading homestuck ages ago
00:44:10 <Fiora> oh
00:44:19 <Fiora> sorry, I thought you were curious or something <_>
00:44:47 <Vorpal> only very slightly
00:44:56 * elliott thinks Fiora needs glasses or something for those eyes
00:45:15 * Fiora has glasses and is blind without them
00:45:56 <shachaf> My windows have blinds and are glass without them.
00:46:22 <Phantom_Hoover> my glass blinds are windows without Vorpal
00:46:34 * Fiora giggles
00:46:45 <shachaf> (That's a joke. I don't have any windows.)
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00:46:57 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, and Linux with me?
00:46:59 <Vorpal> or what
00:47:03 <shachaf> (The room that I sleep in is dark day-round year-round.)
00:47:26 <elliott> shachaf sleeps in a ditch.
00:47:33 <Phantom_Hoover> (shachaf lives in the north pole)
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00:48:04 <kmc> shachaf lives at the center of the earth
00:48:24 <Fiora> does that mean he's weightless right now?
00:48:48 <Fiora> I feel bad for him though, that must be really stressful to life there
00:48:50 <Fiora> all the pressure, I mean
00:49:02 <Fiora> *live
00:49:08 <Vorpal> Fiora, pretty sure he is also dead due to the high pressure
00:49:14 <Taneb> Well, that was fun
00:49:27 <Vorpal> so it is probably rather peaceful
00:49:39 <hagb4rd> or turned to a diamond
00:49:40 <shachaf> ^rot13 Fiora
00:49:40 <fungot> Svben
00:49:49 <shachaf> You should /nick Svben
00:49:51 <Phantom_Hoover> shachaf is a self-aware system of magnetic fields in the core
00:49:56 <Fiora> ^rot13 shachaf
00:49:56 <fungot> funpuns
00:50:03 <Fiora> .... oh. XD
00:50:05 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, neat
00:50:05 <shachaf> Well, that would be too obvious.
00:50:12 <elliott> Fiora: that's actually shachaf's name
00:50:13 <elliott> er
00:50:14 <elliott> shachaf that is
00:50:15 <elliott> not funpuns
00:50:21 <shachaf> elliott: OR IS IT
00:50:34 <Fiora> ^rot13 homestuck
00:50:34 <fungot> ubzrfghpx
00:50:40 <Fiora> ^rot13 nepeta
00:50:40 <fungot> arcrgn
00:50:46 <Fiora> they don't work so well :<
00:50:48 <Vorpal> shachaf, that is a seriously cool rot13 though
00:50:56 <Fiora> ^rot13 vriska
00:50:57 <fungot> ievfxn
00:51:20 <Phantom_Hoover> ^rot13 Phantom_Hoover
00:51:20 <fungot> Cunagbz_Ubbire
00:51:32 <Phantom_Hoover> I quite like that one.
00:51:36 <Vorpal> ^rot13 Vorpal
00:51:36 <fungot> Ibecny
00:51:42 <Vorpal> hmm
00:51:47 <Vorpal> could be worse
00:52:00 <Vorpal> ^rot13 Fiora
00:52:01 <fungot> Svben
00:52:07 <Vorpal> ^rot13 elliott
00:52:07 <fungot> ryyvbgg
00:52:11 <Vorpal> ooh, nice
00:52:12 <Fiora> ^rot13 nitya
00:52:13 <fungot> avgln
00:52:15 <Phantom_Hoover> ^rot13 arvid
00:52:16 <fungot> neivq
00:52:16 <Fiora> ^rot13 bike
00:52:16 <fungot> ovxr
00:52:22 <Fiora> ... okay sorry I guess this is getting spammy
00:52:25 <elliott> ^scramble elliott
00:52:26 <fungot> elottil
00:52:26 <Phantom_Hoover> please
00:52:30 <elliott> ^scramble Phantom_Hoover
00:52:30 <fungot> PatmHoervo_onh
00:52:35 <elliott> patm hoervo
00:52:36 <Phantom_Hoover> it's not like we ever talk about anything worthwhile
00:52:44 <Phantom_Hoover> sounds spanish
00:53:03 <Sgeo> (:aSS):aSS working
00:53:10 <Sgeo> (:aS(:^S^:)Sa:):^S^:(:aS(:^S^:)Sa:) not working
00:54:10 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, yeah that doesn't work too well, pretty sure it should be rot14.5 in the Swedish alphabet though. Which doesn't work
00:54:20 <Vorpal> my name that is
00:54:31 <Phantom_Hoover> fuck your swedish letters
00:54:36 <Vorpal> :D
00:54:52 <Phantom_Hoover> you just drew circles on top of existing letters
00:55:01 <Vorpal> hm traditionally w is not part of our alphabet
00:55:02 <Phantom_Hoover> that's not a new letter
00:55:07 <Vorpal> which means it would be plain rot14
00:55:09 <Vorpal> which would work
00:56:34 <hagb4rd> `pastelog entanglement
00:56:46 <Vorpal> night →
00:56:49 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.135
00:56:52 <Phantom_Hoover> `pastelog untanglement
00:57:05 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.14378
01:04:32 <Sgeo> Well, that crashed Factor
01:05:58 <Sgeo> Because the string was too long, I think
01:06:02 <Sgeo> (The resulting string)
01:06:43 <monqy> oops
01:07:11 <olsner> that's a very good way of handling long strings
01:07:23 <Sgeo> http://paste.factorcode.org/paste?id=2813
01:07:32 <Sgeo> I think it's the graphics drawing thing that crashe
01:07:34 <Sgeo> crashed
01:07:36 <elliott> thanks your name
01:08:31 <elliott> Sgeo: how does this do (foo)S
01:08:40 <elliott> oh hmm
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01:19:51 <Sgeo> The same thing does not crash when using the console-based listener
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01:27:09 <Sgeo> That felt like it took way more intellectual resources than it should have
01:27:33 <Bike> now write something that takes an integer and returns the underload church numeral.
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01:28:09 <Sgeo> And the debugger isn't as great as I was imagining
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01:39:01 <Sgeo> I have not the faintest idea how to write idiomatic Factor
01:39:18 <Sgeo> Or is all Factor code supposed to be this ugly
01:42:14 <elliott> why are you asking us and not the factor channel
01:42:50 <Bike> "yes sgeo, it is supposed to be ugly"
01:42:53 <Sgeo> Because the Factor channel is practically dead and you've done Factor before
01:43:04 <monqy> I hear nobody uses factor
01:43:15 <kmc> monqy: "interesting theory"
01:43:23 <shachaf> I heard Factor was basically dead.
01:43:31 <kmc> is factor the new clojure?
01:43:48 <monqy> but clojure was the new factor
01:43:56 <Bike> I heard if you look in a mirror and chant the contents of A Programming Language backwards, Factor appears and kills you.
01:44:04 <shachaf> kmc: How's the new laptop?
01:44:06 <shachaf> You're using Debian?
01:44:48 <kmc> yeah
01:44:53 <kmc> it's really nice
01:45:06 <shachaf> Sure, Debian's great.
01:45:10 <kmc> i mean the laptop ;P
01:45:28 <kmc> it suspends to RAM in under 2 seconds and comes back all the way in 1 second flat
01:45:53 <kmc> battery charges from 40% to 80% in 20 minutes
01:45:58 <c00kiemon5ter> which one did you buy ? is it that new dell (the link posted yesterday) ?
01:46:13 <ion> I’m not sure any of my laptops have had perfectly working suspend-to-RAM ever.
01:46:18 <shachaf> How long does it take to go from 80 to 40?
01:46:24 <kmc> no it's the thinkpad x1 carbon
01:46:34 <c00kiemon5ter> ah :)
01:47:04 <kmc> shachaf: about 2 hours
01:47:53 <shachaf> Is this the i5 8GB version?
01:48:17 <kmc> yes
01:48:47 <kmc> so yeah it seems to get about 5 hours battery life at my usage, though i haven't tested running it down all the way
01:49:14 <kmc> better than the 3 that nelhage reported
01:49:18 <kmc> i wonder what the key difference is
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02:51:19 <kmc> ion: what kinds of problems did you have?
02:52:19 <kmc> it's been a long time since i had major suspend-to-RAM problems with the thinkpads i've owned
02:53:33 <kmc> shachaf: should i get the fingerprint reader working?
02:54:20 <shachaf> kmc: Would you use it?
02:56:54 <elliott> I hear they're insecure!
02:56:58 <kmc> probably not: http://www.ccc.de/updates/2007/umsonst-im-supermarkt?language=en
02:56:59 <kmc> yeah
02:58:29 <olsner> the software I found for my fingerprint reader is probably the least secure part of my system, not that it has any real security in the first place
02:58:36 <kmc> it was kinda useful with the convertible tablet thinkpad because you could log in without the keyboard available
03:12:38 <kmc> mmmm new computer smell
03:14:39 <olsner> ah, among the bestest of smells
03:14:57 <olsner> do you sleep with your thinkpad now?
03:17:33 <kmc> not any more than before
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03:38:49 <elliott> Deewiant: You wanted bifunctors to use ~(a,b) patterns for tuples, right?
03:39:54 <shachaf> ~(~a,~b) -- just in case
03:42:04 <Lumpio-> I wonder if the fact that Haskell is discussed here very often could be taken as an indication of the nature of the language
03:42:28 <Bike> hilarious
03:43:29 <kmc> that has more than once been suggested in the past
03:43:45 <kmc> i really should start more conversations about C++?
03:44:05 <kmc> so, what do you think about the fact that in C++, both class A and class B can define what happens in the implicit conversion from A to B?
03:44:07 <Bike> implement haskell in c++ templates
03:44:13 <Bike> How does that work?
03:44:18 <kmc> i forget who wins if there's a conflict
03:44:40 <kmc> well B can implement a constructor B::B(const A&)
03:44:54 <Lumpio-> Probably A, except on Wednesdays
03:44:56 <kmc> and A can implement a method B A::operator B()
03:45:25 <Fiora> can you define implicit conversions in Java? I know there's like, toString and stuff but is there general things?
03:45:29 <Fiora> I was wondering if this could occur there too
03:45:33 <Lumpio-> Doubtful
03:45:41 <kmc> i don't think you can
03:45:46 <Lumpio-> I don't think Java allows even operator overloading
03:45:50 <Lumpio-> (In 2012)
03:46:07 <kmc> Java is designed for verbosity and extreme lack of cleverness
03:46:09 <Fiora> so, uniquely C++
03:46:18 <Bike> point for c++. suck it steele
03:46:43 <Bike> (implicit conversions give me hives, though)
03:46:54 <kmc> yep
03:46:57 <kmc> i like that Haskell has none
03:46:58 <Lumpio-> hum
03:47:09 <Fiora> that got me a lot of times at first
03:47:10 <shachaf> kmc: Until edwardk gets his hands on it, anyway.
03:47:11 <Lumpio-> I think you might be able to define a both ways implicit conversation in C# though
03:47:13 <kmc> sigh
03:47:14 <Fiora> especially the Integer <-> Int distinction
03:47:20 <kmc> yeah
03:47:23 <kmc> imo Int should not be in Prelude
03:47:35 <kmc> Prelude should have the conceptually simple things, not the optimized machine-dependent things
03:47:38 <Bike> is it like java where Integers are boxed or
03:47:44 <kmc> they're both boxed
03:47:45 <Fiora> it's like Lisp
03:47:59 <kmc> Int is a box on an integer of implementation defined size
03:48:07 <kmc> but at least [-2^29 .. 2^29-1]
03:48:08 <Bike> oh, i see.
03:48:13 <Bike> and an Integer is a bignum?
03:48:15 <kmc> yes
03:48:18 <kmc> and there's no implicit conversion
03:48:28 <kmc> but you can make functions that are polymorphic over both, naturally
03:48:38 <kmc> in fact even the numerical literal 17 is polymorphic
03:48:39 <kmc> :t 17
03:48:41 <lambdabot> Num a => a
03:48:49 <Bike> yeah i went through learning that the other day
03:48:53 <Bike> :/
03:49:02 <kmc> GHC also has unboxed integers but they're not part of the language spec
03:49:10 <kmc> and they are subject to various limitations
03:49:11 <shachaf> um, just don't use more than 30 bits and then Int isnt implementation defined?? it's pretty trivial
03:49:28 <kmc> for example (as in Java) you can't store an unboxed int in a generic data structure
03:49:34 <kmc> shachaf: that's like programming for MIX
03:49:40 <kmc> where a byte might be 8 bits or 2 decimal digits
03:49:48 <Bike> haha that shit sucks
03:50:08 <Lumpio-> Java generics are glued on afterwards
03:50:19 <Lumpio-> No wonder they can't handle stuff like value types
03:50:32 <kmc> well there is an actual reason
03:51:27 <Lumpio-> Backwards compatibility?
03:51:35 <kmc> they aren't glued on afterwards in ML or Haskell and they have the same limitation
03:51:46 <kmc> well wait what do you mean by "value types"
03:51:54 <Lumpio-> Scalar types
03:51:56 <kmc> you mean these primitive ints we are discussing?
03:51:56 <Lumpio-> Like int or boolean
03:51:59 <kmc> yeah
03:52:09 <kmc> so the reason is, you compile the code for a polymorphic function only once
03:52:22 <kmc> and that code needs to be correct no matter what the type variable is
03:52:51 <kmc> so it basically has to treat things of that variable type as opaque pointers
03:52:59 <Lumpio-> That's one way of doing it.
03:53:04 <kmc> but int and bool and float might not even be the same size as a pointer
03:53:18 <kmc> and in Haskell not only do you care about size, but you care about being able to force evaluation
03:53:24 <kmc> and follow GC indirections and stuff
03:53:35 <kmc> which means they need to be pointers to objects in the managed heap, with a certain layout
03:53:52 <kmc> Lumpio-: the other way (that I'm aware of) is that you compile a different version of the function for each type with which it's used
03:53:55 <kmc> as in C++ templates
03:54:00 <kmc> this has some advantages and many disadvantages
03:54:17 <Lumpio-> It takes some extra memory and time
03:54:22 <Lumpio-> Are there other disadvantages?
03:54:28 <Bike> what are the disadvantages, besides uh... multiple compilations, name mangling insanity...
03:54:34 <Lumpio-> (Assuming we don't allow all the craziness C++ templates do, but just what Java generics allow for instance)
03:54:43 <kmc> taking extra memory can also slow down the program
03:54:47 <kmc> because your code doesn't fit in cache anymore
03:55:11 <kmc> and you need the source of the template visible anywhere that it might be instantiated
03:55:16 <kmc> it pretty much wrecks separate compilation
03:55:44 <kmc> i can't dynamically load two libraries and then instantiate a template from one with a type from the other
03:55:52 <kmc> that shit works fine in Java or Haskell
03:56:02 <Lumpio-> I thought we were talking generics, not templates
03:56:22 <kmc> fine
03:56:24 <Lumpio-> C++ templates allow for much more than Java/.NET generics
03:56:32 <kmc> i can't dynamically load two libraries and then use a polymorphic function from one with a type from the other
03:56:44 <Lumpio-> Yes you can because it's all JIT compiled.
03:57:11 <kmc> are you talking about a real or hypothetical system?
03:57:23 <Lumpio-> Once it figures you need a new concrete version of a generic thing, it just compiles it on the fly (or in advance as things are loaded at runtime)
03:57:27 <Lumpio-> A real system.
03:57:32 <kmc> which one?
03:57:37 <Lumpio-> .NET for instance
03:57:41 <kmc> right
03:57:48 <kmc> but then <kmc> and you need the source of the template visible anywhere that it might be instantiated
03:57:58 <Lumpio-> And indeed you do
03:58:00 <kmc> where by "source" we might mean some intermediate form
03:58:01 <Lumpio-> As bytecode.
03:58:21 <Lumpio-> Just like you need the bytecode for a Java generic class
03:59:07 <Lumpio-> It doesn't introduce any additional requirements or dependencies, it only wastes some time and memory
03:59:41 <Lumpio-> But it has the advantage of making List<int> actually use a tight array of integers inside, not an array of pointers to boxed integers
04:00:14 <kmc> sure
04:00:31 <kmc> it's advantagous though if the semantics of your language don't *require* a clever JIT
04:00:35 <Lumpio-> Oh, and if the compiler is smart, it can coalesce many instantiations into one
04:00:39 <elliott> kmc: I just said "trivial".
04:00:48 <kmc> so the Java route is that, semantically, List<int> is auto-boxed to List<Integer> or whatever
04:00:50 <Lumpio-> Like, say, all lists of objects
04:00:56 <kmc> and then if the JIT happens to optimize that to something clever, great
04:01:01 <Lumpio-> Since in that case they're all just opaque pointers.
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04:01:20 <kmc> but at the bytecode level you don't assume it will be able to
04:01:24 <kmc> at least that's my understanding
04:01:34 <shachaf> 20:00 <elliott> this would actually be fairly trivial
04:02:28 <kmc> elliott: thanks for the update
04:03:46 <kmc> it's the same way with GHC even though it's an ahead of time compiler
04:04:00 <kmc> a good JIT for Haskell would kick ass though
04:06:31 <shachaf> kmc: Did you know GHC doesn't do vectored returns anymore?
04:06:35 <shachaf> Everything is pointer tagged.
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04:06:43 <shachaf> The "spineless tagless g-machine" thing is a total scam.
04:08:56 <shachaf> 20:08 <edwardk> instance (Indexable Int k, Applicative f, a ~ a2, a ~ a3, a ~ a4, a ~ a5, a ~ a6, a ~ a7, a ~ a8, a ~ a9, b ~ b2, b ~ b3, b ~ b4, b ~ b5, b ~ b6, b ~ b7, b ~ b8, b ~ b9) => Each Int (a,a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,a9) (b,b2,b3,b4,b5,b6,b7,b8,b9) a b where
04:09:00 <shachaf> 20:08 <edwardk> each = Lens.indexed $ \ f ~(a,b,c,d,e,g,h,i,j) -> (,,,,,,,,) <$> f (0 :: Int) a <*> f 1 b <*> f 2 c <*> f 3 d <*> f 4 e <*> f 5 g <*> f 6 h <*> f 7 i <*> f 8 j
04:11:19 <elliott> Does GHC have spines?
04:11:36 <kmc> shachaf: yeah
04:11:43 <kmc> though pointer tagging is just an optimization
04:11:51 <shachaf> What are spines, anyway?
04:12:07 <shachaf> kmc: Well, not really at this point.
04:12:09 <kmc> you could AND every pointer with ~7 and it would still produce correct results
04:12:10 <kmc> oh?
04:12:11 <shachaf> I mean, you have to use the tags.
04:12:21 <shachaf> Unless I misunderstood.
04:12:39 <shachaf> When the tag is unset, you jump to the code the pointer points to and then you get a new pointer with a new tag.
04:13:03 <kmc> ok
04:13:05 <shachaf> Or something like that?
04:13:14 <shachaf> It's possible that I misunderstood.
04:13:17 <kmc> i guess that makes sense, instead of returning just the constructor index and making the caller OR it in
04:13:27 <kmc> though for data types with more than 7 constructors you must still do something like that
04:13:41 <shachaf> Well, with more than 7 constructors you look at the pointer.
04:13:48 <shachaf> I think at the part before the code.
04:13:53 <shachaf> Or something like that.
04:13:53 <kmc> anyway the tags referred to in the original STG machine would be things like tagging primitive ints vs boxes
04:14:06 <kmc> ah the info table has the constructor index? makes sense
04:16:50 <shachaf> It would be nice if GHC supported unboxed sums.
04:16:59 <shachaf> Apparently that's a lot of trouble though.
04:17:10 <shachaf> So it doesn't w/w functions that return Either/Maybe/etc.
04:17:50 <kmc> w/w?
04:17:54 <kmc> worker/wrapper?
04:18:05 <kmc> how would unboxed sums work exactly?
04:18:24 <shachaf> (# tag, value #) or something.
04:18:40 <shachaf> If you return Maybe you can either return (# 0, a #) or (# 1, b #)
04:18:56 <shachaf> Er, Either
04:19:16 <kmc> ok
04:19:20 <shachaf> As opposed to allocating an Either which gets consumed immediately.
04:19:26 <kmc> which means those go in two STG-machine registers right?
04:19:30 <elliott> why not just use products
04:19:30 <shachaf> Right.
04:19:51 <kmc> so why in particular is this a lot of trouble for the compiler
04:20:03 <shachaf> I'm not sure.
04:20:08 <shachaf> SPJ said "don't hold your breath"
04:20:25 <kmc> sucks
04:21:39 <shachaf> It could help a lot for list processing functions and what not, I think.
04:26:56 <kmc> yeah
04:27:23 <shachaf> Did you read the CPR paper?
04:27:28 <kmc> don't think so
04:27:49 <shachaf> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/Papers/cpr/index.htm
04:28:02 <shachaf> These things are always more involved than they sound.
04:28:51 <shachaf> elliott: are you generating documentation with cpp.................
04:29:23 <elliott> Yes.
04:30:50 <kmc> for what
04:31:11 <shachaf> ,4/!\
04:33:12 <elliott> lens.
04:40:39 <kmc> @ping
04:40:39 <lambdabot> pong
04:42:22 <kmc> shachaf: I saw some juvenile cuttlefish today!
04:42:24 <kmc> at the aquarium
04:45:43 <kmc> they also had comb jellies
04:45:53 <kmc> and an electric eel in a tank with electrodes such that you could hear its zapping over a loudspeaker
04:46:36 <shachaf> kmc: Was this in Boston?
04:46:49 <kmc> yes, this one: neaq.org
04:46:54 <shachaf> Have you been to the Monterey Bay Aquarium?
04:46:59 <kmc> no, i want to go though!
04:47:02 <kmc> i will go some day
04:47:11 <shachaf> I was in Monterey and ended up not going.
04:47:14 <kmc> :/
04:47:21 <shachaf> Perhaps I'll be there again.
04:47:23 <shachaf> You should go!
04:47:31 <shachaf> Did you know Oleg is in Monterey?
04:47:36 <kmc> doing some navy thing?
04:47:38 <kmc> or is that over
04:47:48 <kmc> is he looking for the nuclear wessels?
04:48:00 <shachaf> Isn't he predicting the weather or something?
04:48:04 <shachaf> Who knows.
04:48:07 <kmc> makes sense
04:48:09 <kmc> he *is* a wizard
04:48:24 <kmc> perhaps delimited continuations are the secret to predicting the weather
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05:11:14 <elliott> @tell Deewiant https://github.com/ekmett/bifunctors/issues/1 (and lens behaves this way too)
05:11:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
05:22:36 <kmc> shachaf: do you know how Chromium's Ctrl-F manages to e.g. find 'ß' if you search for 'ss'?
05:22:39 <kmc> is it based on http://unicode.org/cldr/charts/supplemental/character_fallback_substitutions.html
05:22:49 -!- MDude has changed nick to MDream.
05:22:59 <Fiora> Sgeo: update
05:27:26 <kmc> there are combining characters for musical note heads, stems, and flags??
05:27:27 <kmc> jesus
05:27:51 <Bike> haha why would you ever want that
05:28:10 <shachaf> kmc: Makes sense.
05:30:09 <kmc> yeah
05:30:30 <kmc> it is kind of questionable to include "characters" for things with highly specific unusual forms of typesetting
05:30:34 <kmc> like musical notes and mathematics
05:30:36 <Bike> also does this mean there's COMBINING HEAD ABOVE? one step closer to COMBINING PENIS ABOVE
05:30:43 <kmc> in theory music / math typesetting tools could use these characters
05:30:49 <Bike> what theory is that
05:30:51 <kmc> but i think they basically never will
05:30:53 <kmc> yeah
05:30:57 <Bike> someone who's never tried to typeset music?
05:31:28 <Bike> at least with the math characters you can do some basic shit like sum notation. without a staff how are you supposed to do music?
05:31:36 <Bike> I guess you could indicate rhythm... and... that's about it.
05:32:30 <kmc> well a music typesetting tool could store things as "♪ at position y"
05:32:43 <kmc> representing some of the information using unicode
05:32:48 <kmc> but it's highly doubtful anyone will want to do this
05:33:20 <kmc> anyway ♫ is also used to represent the concept of music without specifying particular music
05:33:24 <kmc> e.g. in closed captions
05:33:48 <Bike> hm... actually, what's the intended scope of unicode? not "all human communication" of course, but where's the line?
05:34:41 <elliott> all human communication except klingon
05:34:48 <kmc> there are some amusing decompositions in the list... like ₪ can decompose to שח or ILS
05:36:07 <kmc> Bike: i'll let you know if i come across a precise mission statement
05:36:24 <kmc> i think it's basically "all text" but the definition of text is slippery
05:36:43 <kmc> in part it's a descriptive standard that tries to unify existing codes
05:36:57 <kmc> a lot of things are in there so that you can round trip with existing legacy codes losslessly
05:36:59 <Bike> are you on some kind of unicode binge?
05:37:08 <kmc> even ASCII's beloved hyphen-minus is an example of this!
05:37:12 <kmc> typographically it is a shit character
05:37:26 <Bike> oh is that why wikipedia uses em dashes instead
05:37:34 <kmc> but there it is, in the first 128 codepoints!
05:38:04 <Bike> i guess i'd never thought of that as being silly. monoglot bias i suppose.
05:38:13 <kmc> yeah
05:38:39 <Bike> (now put me in charge of a character set. you get ascii)
05:38:58 <kmc> unicode binge... we were just outside barstow when the grass radicals began to take hold
05:38:58 <Bike> actually huh, what does unicode do about all the control characters?
05:39:05 <kmc> they're in there
05:39:14 <Bike> since they're kind of... not... charactery
05:39:29 <kmc> the first 256 codepoints of Unicode are the same as the 256 codepoints of ISO-8859-1
05:39:30 <Bike> of course it has its own like the text direction stuff, but that's not quite as abstract as bell
05:39:42 <kmc> (more eurocentrism for you!)
05:39:46 <kmc> including the C0 and C1 control codes
05:41:06 <kmc> and yeah it has all kinds of new control characters like text direction stuff, language indication (officially deprecated), byte-order mark, etc
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05:42:15 <kmc> oh they *also* have the control characters encoded again at e.g. http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2400/index.htm
05:42:33 <Bike> the hell is that
05:42:38 <kmc> these are visible characters for when you want to talk *about* NUL or STX or whatever
05:43:12 <kmc> yeah it's a symbol representing the ASCII character 1
05:43:20 <Bike> the fuck
05:43:45 <kmc> defining "character" gets pretty tricky... for example, A vs. bold A is just a font distinction, except that mathematicians treat them as semantically distinct characters
05:43:52 <elliott> ␀ is my favourite codepoint.
05:43:56 <elliott> now which one do I mean?
05:44:08 <Bike> 2400, because i have the wrong fonts installed. take that unicode
05:44:26 <kmc> so Unicode has a bunch of copies of the latin alphabet for MATHEMATICAL SANS SERIF BOLD LATIN A and whatever
05:44:26 <Bike> kmc: does unicode have blackboard bold?
05:44:34 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_Alphanumeric_Symbols
05:44:35 <kmc> yes
05:44:49 <Bike> unicode meetings must be exciting.
05:44:49 <kmc> scumbag mathematicians
05:45:05 <kmc> invented a way to draw an equivalent of bold on blackboards
05:45:07 <Bike> i should figure out what the deal with han unification was sometime
05:45:09 <kmc> then decided it means something else
05:45:13 <kmc> then decided to write them in print too
05:45:23 <Bike> mathematicians are the worst at syntax
05:45:28 <kmc> yeah
05:45:37 <kmc> multi-character identifier names??? pfffffffffft fuck that
05:45:58 <Bike> it was a good day when I realized mathematicians were basically doing for(i ...) all day erryday
05:46:01 <kmc> han unification was an argument over to what degree similar Han characters from Chinese and Japanese and (old) Korean are "the same character"
05:46:14 <Bike> yeah, i got that much
05:46:16 <kmc> they might look a bit different but that can be a font thing as well
05:46:20 <Bike> just, the arguments either way and such
05:46:33 <kmc> i think it came up at a time when people still wanted Unicode to be a 16-bit code only
05:46:36 <Bike> old vietnamese uses them too, doesn't it?
05:46:37 <kmc> so there was kind of a space crunch
05:46:39 <kmc> probably
05:46:47 <elliott> han unification seems like a completely terrible idea to me
05:46:53 <elliott> especially since unicode has no qualm with duplicates normally
05:47:02 <Bike> now i'm wondering if they unified all the various mongolian alphabets
05:47:04 <kmc> well yeah they've come around to that position
05:47:12 <elliott> right but have they fixed it yet :P
05:47:22 <kmc> one reason for duplicates is lossless round-trip with legacy encodings
05:48:09 <kmc> <Bike> unicode meetings must be exciting. ← i want to know what the meeting about Multiocular O was like
05:48:56 <kmc> maybe i should get a tattoo of multiocular o
05:49:17 <Bike> ok, ok wait, back on the math thing. why does it have MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT CAPITAL D, then two undefined codepoints, then MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT CAPITAL G
05:49:28 <Bike> what else is going to go in those codepoints
05:49:32 <kmc> oh cause E and F are already in the Basic Multilingual Plane
05:49:44 <Bike> wht
05:49:58 <kmc> they put the more common script letters in first
05:50:03 <kmc> and then they were like "fuck it"
05:50:41 <kmc> "The letters in various fonts often have specific, fixed meanings in particular areas of mathematics. By providing uniformity over numerous mathematical articles and books, these conventions help to read mathematical formulae." it's cute how they think mathematicians will ever use anything but LaTeX
05:50:51 <kmc> also lol MathML
05:51:09 <Bike> oh, i see. you have MATHEMATICAL DOUBLE STRUCK CAPITAL X, then Y, at 1d54f and on, but then DOUBLE STRUCK CAPITAL Z is hanging out back in 2124
05:51:20 <Bike> because it's integers. wow.
05:51:25 <kmc> yeah.
05:51:37 <Bike> unicode has got to be fucking full of these warts
05:52:07 <kmc> http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/cjb/codepoints.html
05:52:11 <kmc> this list is pre-emoji too
05:52:15 <kmc> so there's no PILE OF POO
05:52:20 <Bike> aw :(
05:52:42 <Bike> "GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA" so i suppose this is in the same area has multiocular o
05:53:00 <kmc> U+FDFA is the Arabic phrase "May Allah pray on him and grant him peace" as a single character
05:53:17 <Bike> http://decodeunicode.org/data/glyph/196x196/2368.gif i love you, apl
05:53:26 <kmc> pffft
05:53:45 <Bike> it's a tilde with diaresis, how do you even come up with that?
05:53:47 <shachaf>
05:53:49 <kmc> KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT would be a good name for a band
05:53:54 <shachaf> hi
05:54:04 <shachaf> Did I miss a good Unicode discussion?
05:54:16 <Bike> oh, uighur, hm
05:54:26 <kmc> uighur please
05:54:39 <Bike> i wonder if those people who write arabic-infused mandarin in cyrillic have opinions on unicode
05:55:08 <kmc> -_-
05:55:09 <elliott> kmc: well there is a popular latex derivative that uses unicode
05:55:10 <elliott> (xetex)
05:55:14 <Bike> kmc: what?
05:55:18 <kmc> it's a face
05:55:19 <kmc> dunno
05:55:40 <Bike> it was a serious question, they must have some pretty unique opinions on scripts
05:55:46 <kmc> yeah
05:55:54 <kmc> though cyrillic is a pretty well behaeved script
05:55:58 <kmc> if they don't have weird customizations
05:56:00 <kmc> which they probably do
05:57:12 <Bike> "It is a Russian based alphabet plus four special letters: Җ, Ң, Ә, and Ў." well there we go then
05:57:33 <kmc> "Zhe with extra crap hanging off the side"
05:57:44 <Bike> Cyrillic_Capital_Letter_Zhe_With_Descender apparently, so... yes
05:57:58 <Bike> Cyrillic Capital Letter Schwa. Lovely.
05:58:31 <kmc> Chuvash language has CYRILLIC LETTER U WITH DOUBLE ACUTE
05:58:39 <kmc> Ӳӳ
05:59:11 <Bike> erdős, plural: erdӳ
05:59:15 <kmc> yep
06:00:09 <Bike> hm, apparently the dungan used to have their own script, which was basically chinese in arabic
06:00:30 <Bike> "شِيَوْ عَر "
06:01:17 <Bike> and it has four unique letters! yay
06:01:41 <kmc> are they in unicode
06:02:11 <kmc> google detects dungan as bulgarian, utterly fails to translate it
06:02:26 <Bike> hm, wikipedia doesn't say which are unique
06:02:37 <shachaf> kmc: Do you know what the cheese which is called "bulgarian cheese" in Hebrew is?
06:02:42 <Bike> is ARABIC_LETTER_KEHEH_WITH_THREE_DOTS_ABOVE used in usual arabic
06:03:13 <kmc> shachaf: what is it?
06:03:23 <shachaf> I was hoping you knew!
06:03:27 <shachaf> It's sort of similar to feta.
06:03:34 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Xiaoerjing-Ekzemplafrazo.svg is that a quotation mark? if so it's pretty awesome.
06:03:38 <shachaf> It's made with sheep's milk, I think?
06:03:41 <shachaf> It's good.
06:03:51 <shachaf> It's popularly eaten with watermelon (as well as many other things).
06:04:14 <kmc> Bike: nice
06:04:43 <Bike> "manuscripts which use the Arabic script for transcribing Romance languages such as Mozarabic, Portuguese, Spanish or Ladino" this must be exciting
06:04:45 <kmc> is it this shachaf? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirene
06:05:41 <kmc> using Arabic script to write a mixture of Spanish and Hebrew o_O
06:05:42 <shachaf> kmc: Hmm, it says it's "similar".
06:05:46 <shachaf> Hard to say.
06:06:13 <Bike> kmc: you're aware of basque-icelandic pidgin right
06:06:18 <kmc> Bike: what no
06:06:20 <shachaf> The Hebrew link on that page links to the Hebrew page.
06:06:28 <Bike> kmc: swear to god it's real
06:06:31 <shachaf> I don't think I've come across that name before.
06:06:49 <Bike> i think there was also a polish-mongolian pidgin
06:06:50 <shachaf> kmc: Apparently it is!
06:06:51 <elliott> Bike: what
06:06:55 <kmc> wow
06:07:02 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Mongolian_literary_relations
06:07:03 <kmc> i like that one of the example phrases on wikipedia is "Fuck you!"
06:07:15 <Bike> life is beautiful, elliott
06:07:36 <elliott> Bike: why is ther e basque-icelandic pidgin
06:07:45 <Bike> kmc: i imagine it comes up a lot when you're an icelandic sailor trying to talk to this weird mountainous french guy???
06:07:46 <elliott> *there a
06:07:57 <Bike> elliott: so that icelanders and basques could talk, duh
06:08:02 <kmc> hehehe
06:08:19 <kmc> how did french people end up at the far side of iceland anyway
06:08:26 <elliott> they got lost
06:08:30 <kmc> i'll say
06:08:53 <Bike> how did norse people end up on the far side of greenland
06:09:11 <kmc> Wash a shirt for me. Fuck you! Give me garters. I will give you a biscuit and a sour drink. If Christ and Maria give me a whale, I will give you the tail. You are an evil man. Give me hot milk and new butter.
06:09:14 <shachaf> Ha, Bike still believes in Greenland.
06:09:32 <Bike> give you the... is that some kind of rhyming insult
06:09:57 <Bike> speaking of which, as long as i'm talking about language trivia i don't really know, are you all aware that rap battles have been invented independently all over the world centuries ago
06:09:57 <kmc> i don't know
06:10:05 <kmc> no but that's great
06:12:17 <Bike> there are entirely different traditions in, say, norse (flyting) and... i forget the turkmen one
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06:13:53 <kmc> as long as i'm talking about whales did you know that all whales found beached on the shores of Britain are considered property of the Queen?
06:13:56 <kmc> sturgeons too
06:14:06 <kmc> well in Scotland it's only those whales too large to be pulled to land by a "wain pulled by six oxen"
06:17:51 <shachaf> אנשים נוטים לבלבל בין גבינת הפטה לגבינה הבולגרית, אך תהליך הייצור שלהם וטעמן שונה. הבולגרית עוברת כבישה והיא יותר קשיחה, לעומת הפטה שנוטה להתפורר.
06:21:19 <elliott> kmc: what about in wales
06:25:59 <kmc> whales in wales?!?!?
06:26:04 <elliott> yes
06:26:32 <shachaf> _1
06:26:32 <shachaf> :: forall s t a b (f :: * -> *) (k :: * -> * -> *).
06:26:32 <shachaf> (Functor f, Indexable Int k, Field1 s t a b) =>
06:26:32 <shachaf> k (a -> f b) (s -> f t)
06:26:37 <shachaf> Guess who's to blame for that type?
06:26:40 <shachaf> Hint: It's elliott.
06:27:14 <Bike> is that a type with type annotations in it?
06:27:27 <shachaf> Kind annotations.
06:27:31 <Bike> neat.
06:27:35 <shachaf> A kind is a type of a type.
06:27:38 <Bike> yeah, i know.
06:28:37 <kmc> those kinds could be inferred anyway
06:28:46 <kmc> but ghci helpfully prints the ones which are not *
06:29:14 <elliott> Except it doesn't.
06:29:16 <Bike> does ghc possibly with whatever crazed extensions you're using have kinds other than -> ones?
06:29:19 <elliott> shachaf just turned it on.
06:29:29 <kmc> Bike: yes
06:29:33 <shachaf> What?
06:29:42 <shachaf> There are no datakinds there.
06:30:03 <kmc> even without turning on any extensions, ghc has a few extra kinds
06:30:19 <kmc> #, the kind of unboxed types
06:30:29 <Bike> catchy name
06:30:33 <shachaf> Can you get access to them these days, without extensions?
06:30:35 <kmc> (#), the kind of unboxed tuple typess (which are not unboxed types for this purpose)
06:30:38 <shachaf> (->) :: * -> * -> *
06:30:47 <kmc> and ? and ?? which are unions of those
06:30:49 <kmc> :k (->)
06:30:50 <lambdabot> * -> * -> *
06:30:53 <elliott> those don't exist any more kmc
06:30:54 <kmc> huh why
06:30:55 <kmc> ok
06:30:56 <elliott> they have more reasonable names now
06:30:59 <kmc> it's all different now
06:30:59 <elliott> OpenKind and stuff
06:31:04 <elliott> also now you have datakinds
06:31:04 <shachaf> elliott: # exists!
06:31:05 <elliott> and constraintkinds
06:31:10 <kmc> yes
06:31:13 <shachaf> Kinds, kinds, kinds!
06:31:17 <elliott> so for instance Foo :: [Int] -> Constraint!
06:31:37 <shachaf> If it's unsatisfiable we call it a Constrain't.
06:32:37 <kmc> elliott: huh what does "Constraint" mean as a type?
06:32:54 <elliott> kmc: a constraint
06:32:57 <elliott> like (Num Int)
06:32:59 <elliott> or (a ~ b)
06:33:06 <kmc> i understand it as a kind, e.g. forall (c :: Constraint). c => t
06:33:07 <elliott> or (Num a, Foo a)
06:33:10 <elliott> it's a kind there
06:33:13 <kmc> how
06:33:14 <elliott> that was a kind signature for Foo
06:33:18 <kmc> oh
06:33:21 <elliott> type family Foo :: [Int] -> Constraint
06:33:21 <kmc> because [Int] is a datakind
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06:33:26 <elliott> type instance Foo '[] = ()
06:33:32 <kmc> this is some crazy shit
06:33:35 <Bike> [Int] isn't a type in this context?
06:33:35 <elliott> type instance Foo (x ': xs) = (MyTypeClassTakingAnInt x, Foo xs)
06:33:38 <elliott> Bike: nope.
06:33:39 <kmc> yeah
06:33:44 <popl> Hello.
06:33:46 <kmc> it makes sense now
06:33:47 <Bike> uh. so ... what is it
06:33:55 <elliott> Bike: a lifted data kind.
06:34:00 <kmc> GHC lifts data types to the kind level, and data constructors to the type level
06:34:15 <kmc> when you enable appropriate crazy extensions
06:34:21 <popl> Haskell is esoteric?
06:34:36 <kmc> #esoteric is on topic?
06:34:45 <popl> kmc: Mommy?
06:34:47 <Bike> right i'm going to file this away as something i shouldn't try to understand right this second because i'll just fuck it up
06:34:52 <Bike> thanks anyway
06:35:09 <Fiora> biiikeeee
06:35:21 <Bike> what
06:35:46 <popl> I just found http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html
06:35:50 <popl> I think it's really cool.
06:36:08 <Bike> i think the wiki has several examples of image languages
06:36:16 <Fiora> you're being like you and self-deprecating and depressive and stuff
06:36:43 <Bike> geez, i'm just trying to be realistic. i barely know type theory, taking it to The Next Level too fast is just a dumb way to learn.
06:36:58 <kmc> yeah a lot of people make this mistake learning haskell
06:37:09 <Bike> Haha, Piet is in Category:Low-level
06:37:22 <Bike> popl: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages i think most of these are actually fungoids but
06:37:26 <popl> I was thinking how this channel allowed escape codes and thought about writing a language that made use of them. Then I thought somebody else might have already done, and I found Piet.
06:38:02 <Bike> kmc: what mistake?
06:38:04 <popl> Bike: The operations are all low-level. I think it's neat.
06:38:23 <Bike> it is neat, i just don't normally associate "low-level" and "you distribute it as a png"
06:38:41 <Fiora> hey, that means the executables come pre-compressed right?
06:38:43 <Fiora> XD
06:38:45 <Bike> genius
06:38:48 <kmc> Bike: trying to understand the coolest sounding advanced ideas without understanding the fundamentals
06:38:52 <Fiora> and instead of an executable packer, you have pngout
06:38:53 <kmc> so i think your attitude is reasonable
06:39:15 <Bike> oh, yeah
06:39:40 <Bike> if i actually wanted to learn haskell i'd just write a regex matcher in it or something, it's more fun to sit around pretending to learn math
06:40:03 <kmc> the archetypal example are people who are obsessed with "learning monads" but don't understand type classes and higher order functions
06:40:31 <Bike> monads without understanding higher order functions sounds... depressing, really
06:40:33 <kmc> yeah
06:40:39 <shachaf> "low-level" and "high-level" have two different meanings.
06:40:45 <shachaf> One is close or far to what the machine does.
06:40:50 <shachaf> The other is close or far to what you want to say.
06:41:00 <shachaf> We need two different sets of words for this. :-(
06:41:02 <kmc> it's depressing that any programmers do not understand higher order functions, but there we are
06:41:23 <Bike> did you know that Higher-Order Perl is a book that exists?
06:41:28 <kmc> ok
06:41:48 <shachaf> What's wrong with that?
06:42:01 <Bike> nothing, really
06:49:45 <popl> kmc: Did you mean it's depressing that all programmers do not ... ?
06:50:19 <Bike> his sentence seems fine as it is.
06:50:31 <Bike> "it's depressing that programmers that do not understand higher order functions exist"
06:50:42 <popl> AHHHH
06:51:03 <shachaf> popl: what are you even doing here popl
06:51:18 <popl> shachaf: slumming
06:51:23 <popl> :D
06:52:00 <popl> shachaf: It was easier to type /j #esoteric then /topic #esoteric
06:52:45 <popl> shachaf: And Bike ended up giving me the URI for the wiki anyways (it is not in the topic).
06:52:57 <popl> shachaf: I will leave if you ask.
06:53:21 <elliott> `welcome popl
06:53:26 <HackEgo> popl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
06:53:27 <elliott> `WELCOME popl
06:53:31 <elliott> there's two URIs for you
06:53:32 <Bike> i did?
06:53:36 <elliott> ok the latter might not actually be a URI
06:53:44 <popl> 22:37 < Bike> popl: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Two-dimensional_languages i think most of these are actually fungoids but
06:53:50 <Bike> gosh
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06:55:10 <popl> I was joking when I said I was slumming.
06:55:20 <popl> elliott: I'm sorry I said your favoritest language was COBOL.
06:55:30 <elliott> but it is
06:55:36 <Bike> cobol's pretty cool
06:55:37 <popl> OH! GOOD!
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08:53:47 <FreeFull> `WeLcOmE
08:53:53 <HackEgo> WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.)
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08:54:15 <shachaf> `welcome monqy
08:54:17 <HackEgo> monqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
08:54:32 <FreeFull> `welcome `welcome
08:54:33 <monqy> hi shachaf
08:54:34 <HackEgo> ​`welcome: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
08:54:37 <shachaf> hi monqy
08:55:00 <FreeFull> `welcome <CTCP>ACTION
08:55:02 <HackEgo> ​.ACTION: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
08:55:09 <shachaf> monqy: what's the pacific ocean like
08:56:28 <monqy> it's an ocean
08:56:56 <shachaf> monqy: what about the indian ocean
08:58:12 <monqy> also an ocean
08:58:45 <shachaf> monqy: what about the red sea
08:58:53 <monqy> a sea
08:59:39 <shachaf> monqy: lake superior??
09:01:06 <monqy> a superior lake
09:01:23 <monqy> shachaf you should be able to figure this out yourself
09:01:58 <shachaf> monqy: It's kind of tricky.
09:02:05 <shachaf> You have a natural talent at this.
09:03:04 <FreeFull> monqy: What about the Sun?
09:03:17 <monqy> a sun
09:03:27 <FreeFull> What about
09:03:49 <shachaf> FreeFull: The Sun is dead.
09:03:51 <shachaf> rip sun
09:08:07 <hagb4rd> "when the doors of perception are cleansed man will see things as they truly are..infinite"
09:08:38 <hagb4rd> -wiliam blake
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09:47:07 <shachaf> elliott: Bet me the year of my birth doubled is an odd number.
09:47:44 <FreeFull> shachaf: You were born in a halfyeaer?
09:48:40 <shachaf> ElephantTraversal
10:04:03 <shachaf> `quote
10:04:03 <shachaf> `quote
10:04:04 <shachaf> `quote
10:04:04 <shachaf> `quote
10:04:04 <shachaf> `quote
10:04:05 <HackEgo> 470) <itidus20> now theodore seuss is dead... so screw him
10:04:05 <HackEgo> 233) <ais523> OK, I give up, logging into Wikia is harder than writing a Firefox extension
10:04:06 <HackEgo> 216) <fizzie> Deewiant: Did you take the course at some point and/or were you taking it now and/or did you actually already graduate and/or are you still in Otaniemi anyway?
10:04:06 <HackEgo> 618) <shachaf> VMS Mosaic? <shachaf> I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. <shachaf> Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS.
10:04:07 <HackEgo> 14) <fizzie after embedding some of his department research into fungot> Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it.
10:06:57 <oerjan> `pastelogs Finally I have found some actually useful purpose for it.
10:07:31 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3026
10:08:08 <oerjan> oh it was only no. 23 when it was added.
10:08:21 <oerjan> deletions aren't _quite_ as harsh as i feared :P
10:08:41 <shachaf> `quote
10:08:42 <shachaf> `quote
10:08:42 <shachaf> `quote
10:08:42 <shachaf> `quote
10:08:43 <HackEgo> 470) <itidus20> now theodore seuss is dead... so screw him
10:08:43 <shachaf> `quote
10:08:44 <HackEgo> 164) <Sgeo> HOT SEXY SEX BITS
10:08:44 <HackEgo> 299) <crystal-cola> I just thought you might have meant the Ramanujan tau and I was WOAH he weilds heavy weapons
10:08:46 <HackEgo> 212) <Vorpal> ooh I want to see ehird pole dancing <ehird> I think that would be illegal. <Vorpal> oh you are right <Vorpal> damn :/
10:08:46 <HackEgo> 717) <elliott> aaaaah my scherzo is unmeasurable
10:09:06 <oerjan> i think 470 may have a death wish
10:09:13 <shachaf> Didn't someone delete 164 once?
10:09:13 <elliott> 470 is beautiful
10:09:22 <elliott> 164 is also beautiful
10:09:40 <monqy> what's with 212.........
10:09:48 <monqy> also what's with 717, but in a different way
10:10:07 <shachaf> wha'ts with the pacific ocean monqy!
10:10:13 <elliott> monqy: 212 explanation: vorpal.
10:10:14 <oerjan> monqy: i don't think it's illegal any longer. maybe Vorpal should try again.
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10:10:19 <elliott> 717 explanation: my scherzo is unmeasurable
10:10:19 <oerjan> or is it.
10:10:21 <elliott> apparently
10:10:33 <shachaf> kmc: What do *you* think about The Hashable Controversy?
10:10:39 <shachaf> elliott is getting quite worked up about it.
10:10:47 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a controversy now?
10:10:51 <shachaf> Yes.
10:11:15 <oerjan> i saw a reddit post but i didn't notice any controversy
10:11:18 <elliott> shachaf: don't worry, I know you like to get shit done
10:11:26 <elliott> shachaf: and that's why you use classy-prelude and new hashable
10:11:37 <shachaf> kmc: Example ☝
10:11:53 <shachaf> elliott: Don't make me get my CanMapM_Func!
10:13:42 <Deewiant> elliott: Did edward say /why/ he repented anywhere?
10:14:21 <elliott> Deewiant: Apparently dolio convinced him.
10:14:54 <shachaf> Repented on what?
10:16:14 <elliott> Deewiant: Quoth: "`nand` made a solid case in some code here, and dolio worked me over about the lack of true products in haskell for months before i broke.."
10:16:15 <Deewiant> 16.07:11:14* elliott | @tell Deewiant https://github.com/ekmett/bifunctors/issues/1 (and lens behaves this way too)
10:16:18 <Deewiant> shachaf: On that.
10:16:28 <elliott> s/broke../broke./
10:16:38 <shachaf> @tell Deewiant Oh.
10:17:30 <elliott> Deewiant: HTH.
10:17:38 <Deewiant> elliott: Where's that quote from?
10:17:52 <elliott> Deewiant: I told edwardk you wanted to know and that's what he said.
10:17:57 <elliott> I am basically Deewiant'sIRC client.
10:18:02 <elliott> Also Deewiant's IRC client.
10:18:02 <Deewiant> Right. :-P
10:18:12 <elliott> (But: #haskell-lens.)
10:19:48 <oerjan> <elliott> Bike: why is ther e basque-icelandic pidgin <-- istr the basques were pretty great fishermen, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Basque_people#Basque_sailors
10:24:38 <Sgeo> elliott, monqy Fiora updat
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10:42:15 <oerjan> <popl> shachaf: I will leave if you ask. <-- NO DON'T GIVE SHACHAF POWER
10:42:25 <oerjan> IT'S TOO LATE HE ALREADY LEFT
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10:42:51 <Taneb> Guys
10:42:53 <Taneb> I never
10:42:58 <Taneb> have to pretend to be a rabbi
10:43:03 <Taneb> ever again
10:43:09 <oerjan> good, good
10:43:13 <monqy> what
10:43:48 <oerjan> <-- does it have to exist to be a URI?
10:43:51 <oerjan> <elliott> ok the latter might not actually be a URI <-- does it have to exist to be a URI?
10:44:02 <Taneb> School's Youth Theatre's performance of Fiddler on the Roof is over
10:44:07 <oerjan> pesky non-automatic pasting
10:44:49 <oerjan> `? taneb
10:44:51 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask.
10:45:31 <oerjan> `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past.
10:45:35 <HackEgo> I knew that.
10:45:46 <oerjan> that almost rhymes
10:45:47 <shachaf> @quote Taneb
10:45:47 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Where did you learn to type?
10:45:52 <shachaf> @quote Ngevd
10:45:53 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Are you on drugs?
10:46:01 <elliott> oerjan: double spaces after . s:(
10:46:03 <elliott> *.s :(
10:46:20 <oerjan> elliott: um there is a double space
10:46:26 <shachaf> oerjan: EXACTLY
10:46:33 <shachaf> `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask.He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past.
10:46:36 <HackEgo> I knew that.
10:46:38 <shachaf> Hmm, that's not right.
10:46:38 <elliott> no no NO
10:46:38 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAA
10:46:43 <elliott> there should be 1 space
10:46:44 <shachaf> Let's compromise.
10:46:45 <shachaf> `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past.
10:46:45 <elliott> that's how it's meant to be
10:46:48 <elliott> thank you
10:46:49 <HackEgo> I knew that.
10:46:58 <oerjan> elliott: i thought double space was the standard. is that only for quotes?
10:47:09 <elliott> yes.
10:47:12 <shachaf> Double space isn't for separating sentences...
10:47:20 <monqy> the "elliott standard"
10:47:21 <shachaf> Only the scum of the earth separate sentences with double space.
10:47:22 * oerjan sad
10:47:40 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
10:47:41 <fizzie> For some reason I always doublespace between sentences in emails. I scum.
10:48:26 <shachaf> fizzie: The worst part is when you only do it on the first sentence.
10:48:30 <shachaf> That makes you a start-scummer.
10:48:31 <elliott> oerjan: can you figure out how to unify view and view'
10:48:36 <elliott> it's really buggign me
10:48:39 <elliott> also bugging
10:48:53 <oerjan> :t view
10:48:54 <lambdabot> MonadReader s m => Getting a s t a b -> m a
10:48:55 <oerjan> :t view'
10:48:56 <lambdabot> MonadReader s m => Getting a s s a a -> m a
10:49:14 <oerjan> ok what are those and what's the actual difference
10:49:22 <shachaf> Same implementation.
10:49:23 <shachaf> view' = view
10:49:30 <shachaf> unifiedview :: MonadReader s m => Getting a s t a b -> m a hth
10:49:34 <elliott> oerjan: Getting a s t a b -> s -> a
10:49:40 <elliott> you don't have to care about the monad part
10:49:46 <shachaf> True.
10:49:49 <elliott> oerjan: the problem is that s,t,a,b aren't known to be related by the typesystem
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10:50:01 <oerjan> OKAY
10:50:03 <elliott> oerjan: so if you have something which would be ambiguous if not for defaulting, then it still remains ambiguous
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10:50:07 <elliott> because it defaults s and a because you actually pass them
10:50:10 <elliott> but t and b are just floating there
10:50:17 <elliott> whereas with view' it's made unambiguous
10:50:31 <elliott> we'd ideally like some way to say "if this function is used ambiguously, try again assuming s ~ t, a ~ b"
10:51:29 <shachaf> did you try the constraint GHC.Exts.MaybeUnify
10:51:33 <shachaf> a b
10:51:52 <elliott> shachaf: Hey, I called my typeclass attempting to hack it in MaybeUnify.
10:52:02 <shachaf> I named the one I invented after yours.
10:52:07 <shachaf> Sorry. :-(
10:52:47 <elliott> I didn't even tell you about mine!
10:53:05 <shachaf> 02:34 <elliott> what we need is some kind of constraint (MaybeUnify a b)
10:54:00 <elliott> dammit
10:54:17 <oerjan> you let the secret escape
10:54:48 <shachaf> elliott: I'm a real mind reader.
10:54:59 <shachaf> After that, you went to Oleg's website and looked for similar things.
10:55:14 <shachaf> You found one, btu it turned out to just be (~)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11:37:53 <ion> kmc: Usually some piece of hardware not working after resume.
11:45:55 <fizzie> We have a Lenovo laptop here where the firmware fan controller makes it do this really horrible "cycle the fan on to ~full for two seconds every 15 seconds when the box is idle" loop. It does that in Linux and in a clean Win8 install, but not in the provided Win7 with Lenovo's "Power Manager" thing running; presumably that takes control from the EC and runs the fans by itself. It's really a wurst.
11:47:48 <fizzie> ibm_acpi has an experimental mode where it can do thermal monitoring an fan control (and people have written scripts to do that), but I don't even know if it would work in that thing, and anyway it sounds like a good way to melt a processor or something.
11:52:40 <olsner> have you tried upgrading the bios/
11:52:55 <fizzie> Sure, it's at the latest revision they've made for that model.
11:53:09 <fizzie> Googling suggests Lenovo has fixed a number of older ThinkPads with similar fan issues with firmware upgrades.
11:54:02 <fizzie> I should probably complain on their forums. Though there's a 35-page thread from owners of a not-the-same-but-reasonably-close-in-model-number-space complaining about a fan loop, and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
11:54:20 <fizzie> (I have also tried turning it off and then on.)
11:56:08 <shachaf> yo elliott, i hird u like algebra, so i put sums and products in ur records
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12:49:00 <FreeFull> :t main
12:49:02 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `main'
12:49:02 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `min' (imported from Data.Ord)
12:50:32 <Deewiant> main :: IO a => a
12:51:59 <elliott> Deewiant: what
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12:52:38 <FreeFull> GHC.Prim.State# exists but if I attempt to look at it, ghci parses the # as a separate symbol
12:53:07 <elliott> you don't want to look at that
12:53:09 <elliott> so it doesn't matter
12:53:32 <oerjan> FreeFull: {-# LANGUAGE MagicHash #-} or so
12:53:54 * elliott sigh
12:54:06 <elliott> I should adjust GHC's IO representation so there isn't a definition in a file ending .hs.
12:54:18 <oerjan> elliott, so frustrated
12:54:42 <oerjan> also yes, main can be IO a for any a
12:54:50 <elliott> yes but that's not what Deewiant said...
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13:26:04 <Deewiant> heh, guess I shouldn't try to write some quick Haskell on my phone without thinking when I haven't written Haskell in months
13:27:05 <elliott> writing Haskell on a phone sounds distinctly unpleasant
13:28:00 <fizzie> Writing a phone on Haskell, though...
13:29:45 <Jafet> "fmap to unlock"
13:31:31 <ion> main :: MonadIO a => a
13:31:39 <ion> main :: MonadIO m => m a
13:53:34 <FreeFull> :t putStr
13:53:36 <lambdabot> String -> IO ()
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14:05:44 <sgeo_> I'm graduating in a few days
14:05:46 <sgeo_> It feels weird
14:07:16 <elliott> i'll say
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14:15:22 <Jafet> Ominously closer and closer to that dissertation
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16:59:52 <kmc> fizzie: oh yeah, my friend's thinkpad did the fan cycle thing
16:59:54 <kmc> then the fan died :(
17:00:25 <kmc> shachaf: what's the controversy
17:00:46 <kmc> <elliott> shachaf: and that's why you use classy-prelude and new hashable ← learning a lesson :(
17:02:15 <kmc> hagb4rd++ for william blake quote
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18:23:29 <ais521> Hello
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18:23:51 <Taneb> ais521, you're looking somewhat decremented
18:23:53 <Taneb> Twice over
18:24:59 <ais521> Well, since ais523 asked me (AnotherTest) to stop my testing period, this is my new pseudonym
18:26:06 <ais521> Interesting to note: 521 and 523 form a prime twin
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18:28:36 <quintopia> :/
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18:35:32 <Taneb> This is going to be confusing, I can tell
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18:38:52 <ais521> My vimrc file disappeared? :(
18:39:14 <ais521> I can't exactly recall deliberately removing it
18:39:33 <FreeFull> You know, ghci is actually pretty neat for programming with SDL
18:39:46 <FreeFull> Because you can enter SDL commands and see what happens without having to recompile every time
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19:40:14 <oerjan> <Taneb> This is going to be confusing, I can tell <-- YOU DON'T SAY
19:40:18 <oerjan> -->
19:40:29 <ais521> let's hope not
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20:18:47 <shachaf> kmc: http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/14tdab/a_major_new_release_of_the_hashable_library/
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20:20:19 <kmc> ok
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20:33:07 <dekas> What is love?
20:33:57 <Fiora> happiness
20:35:28 <ion> Baby don’t hurt me
20:37:56 <fizzie> No more.
20:39:47 <coppro> `quote
20:39:50 <HackEgo> 361) <elliott_> I'm not even going to try and understand what you're proposing. <oerjan> i understand it perfectly. it's completely nuts.
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20:43:43 <sgeo_> If a Brainfuck interpreter throws an error when it receives a comment, is it still considered a Brainfuck interpreter
20:43:53 <coppro> no
20:44:39 <sgeo_> Guess what the Brainfuck implementation that comes with Factor does?
20:44:44 <ais523> no, it's an interpreter for a similar-to-BF language
20:44:57 <ais523> what if it terminates upon reading a NUL character?
20:45:21 <sgeo_> It would be a quick change to fix it though
20:46:19 <sgeo_> https://github.com/slavapestov/factor/blob/master/extra/brainfuck/brainfuck.factor
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21:08:23 <oerjan> you didn't even give dekas a `welcome, how will he now know where to go for esoteric love
21:08:40 <shachaf> `hi oerjan
21:08:42 <HackEgo> hi
21:08:48 <oerjan> `hi shachaf
21:08:49 <HackEgo> hi
21:09:00 <shachaf> @hi lambdabot
21:09:01 <lambdabot> No match for "lambdabot".
21:09:05 <shachaf> oh no
21:09:41 <oerjan> @hi there
21:09:41 <lambdabot> No match for "there".
21:09:51 <shachaf> lambdabot: ?
21:09:52 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add
21:09:52 <lambdabot> djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune
21:09:52 <lambdabot> fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma
21:09:52 <lambdabot> karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline
21:09:52 <lambdabot> oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc
21:09:54 <lambdabot> read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc
21:09:55 <oerjan> @hip shachaf
21:09:56 <lambdabot> topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow
21:09:58 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: bid help id map
21:10:05 <shachaf> @bid there
21:10:06 <lambdabot> Can't find 'there'
21:10:11 <shachaf> Hm.
21:10:12 <shachaf> @id there
21:10:12 <lambdabot> there
21:10:21 <oerjan> @help shachaf
21:10:21 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
21:10:28 <shachaf> @help there
21:10:29 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
21:10:32 <shachaf> Hm.
21:10:34 <shachaf> @map there
21:10:34 <lambdabot> http://www.haskell.org/hawiki/HaskellUserLocations
21:10:39 <oerjan> @id shachaf
21:10:39 <lambdabot> shachaf
21:10:41 <shachaf> @hit there
21:10:42 <lambdabot> No match for "there".
21:10:48 <shachaf> @hiss there
21:10:48 <lambdabot> No module "there" loaded
21:10:57 <oerjan> @hits there
21:10:58 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
21:11:02 <shachaf> @bit there
21:11:02 <lambdabot> Can't find 'there'
21:11:17 <oerjan> @hot there
21:11:17 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: do ft let show vote what yow
21:11:36 <oerjan> @ft shachaf
21:11:37 <lambdabot> Done.
21:11:40 <oerjan> yay
21:11:48 <oerjan> what did that do
21:11:51 <oerjan> @help ft
21:11:52 <lambdabot> ft <ident>. Generate theorems for free
21:12:01 <shachaf> i have no idea what just happened!!!
21:12:06 <Bike> @ft 2+2 = 4
21:12:07 <oerjan> oh dear it generated shachaf. for free no less!
21:12:07 <lambdabot> Done.
21:12:17 <Bike> Wow!
21:12:38 <shachaf> @ft bike :: oerjan -> Bike oerjan
21:12:39 <lambdabot> Done.
21:12:49 <shachaf> @free bike :: oerjan -> Bike oerjan
21:12:50 <lambdabot> $map_Bike f . bike = bike . f
21:13:00 <shachaf> @help ft
21:13:00 <lambdabot> ft <ident>. Generate theorems for free
21:13:01 <shachaf> @help free
21:13:02 <lambdabot> free <ident>. Generate theorems for free
21:13:05 <shachaf> @ft id
21:13:07 <lambdabot> Done.
21:13:13 <oerjan> oh hm
21:13:19 <oerjan> @hitchcock shachaf
21:13:19 <lambdabot> No match for "shachaf".
21:13:28 <shachaf> oerjan++
21:13:37 <shachaf> @help hitchcock
21:13:38 <lambdabot> I perform dictionary lookups via the following 13 commands:
21:13:38 <lambdabot> all-dicts ... Query all databases on dict.org
21:13:38 <lambdabot> devils ...... The Devil's Dictionary
21:13:38 <lambdabot> easton ...... Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
21:13:38 <lambdabot> elements .... Elements database
21:13:40 <lambdabot> [9 @more lines]
21:13:42 <shachaf> @more
21:13:42 <lambdabot> foldoc ...... The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing
21:13:44 <lambdabot> gazetteer ... U.S. Gazetteer (1990)
21:13:46 <lambdabot> hitchcock ... Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's)
21:13:48 <lambdabot> jargon ...... Jargon File
21:13:50 <lambdabot> lojban ...... Search lojban.org
21:13:52 <lambdabot> [4 @more lines]
21:14:01 <shachaf> My name totally appears in the bible!
21:14:01 <oerjan> shachaf isn't a biblical name? shocking
21:14:12 <shachaf> Admittedly it's mostly listed as a bird you can't eat.
21:14:29 <Taneb> @hitchcock nathan
21:14:30 <lambdabot> *** "Nathan" hitchcock "Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's)"
21:14:30 <lambdabot> Nathan, given; giving; rewarded
21:14:30 <lambdabot>
21:14:53 <Bike> is that like the thing where locusts may or may not be kosher, or whatever
21:14:53 <shachaf> @hitchcock Taneb
21:14:54 <lambdabot> No match for "Taneb".
21:15:21 <shachaf> @hitchcock аdam
21:15:21 <lambdabot> No match for "аdam".
21:15:25 <Taneb> ...
21:15:27 <shachaf> I guess that's not biblical either.
21:15:31 <oerjan> with the command name, i would rather have imagined an index of horror films
21:15:45 <Taneb> @hitchcock psycho
21:15:46 <lambdabot> No match for "psycho".
21:15:50 <oerjan> @hitchcock jehosaphat
21:15:50 <lambdabot> No match for "jehosaphat".
21:16:01 <oerjan> @hitchcock jesus
21:16:02 <lambdabot> *** "Jesus" hitchcock "Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's)"
21:16:02 <lambdabot> Jesus, savior; deliverer
21:16:02 <lambdabot>
21:16:16 <shachaf> @hitchcock hitchcock
21:16:16 <lambdabot> No match for "hitchcock".
21:16:22 <shachaf> coïncidence?
21:16:24 <oerjan> would have been embarassing to leave that out
21:16:29 <shachaf> @hitchcock adam
21:16:30 <lambdabot> *** "Adam" hitchcock "Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary (late 1800's)"
21:16:30 <lambdabot> Adam, earthy; red
21:16:30 <lambdabot>
21:16:43 <oerjan> wat
21:16:50 <oerjan> > "аdam"
21:16:51 <lambdabot> mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character)
21:16:58 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
21:17:27 <Bike> hitchcock didn't cover cyrillic? terrible
21:17:49 <shachaf> @hitchcock Адам
21:17:50 <lambdabot> No match for "Адам".
21:19:13 <oerjan> @show Адам
21:19:13 <lambdabot> "\208\144\208\180\208\176\208\188"
21:20:14 <shachaf> @echo Адам
21:20:14 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {msgServer = "freenode", msgLBName = "lambdabot", msgPrefix = "shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf", msgCommand = "PRIVMSG", msgParams = ["#esoteric",":@echo \208\144\208\180\
21:20:14 <lambdabot> 208\176\208\188"]} rest:"\208\144\208\180\208\176\208\188"
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21:44:10 <Gregor-3DS> 3DS = worst IRC client
21:44:51 <fizzie> I've used that one thing in it.
21:45:15 <fizzie> Well, not in the 3DS, just on the DS.
21:45:35 <Taneb> Gregor-3DS, better or worse than Webchat on a Kindle?
21:45:49 <Gregor-3DS> Ah yes, that one thing.
21:45:59 <fizzie> DSOrganize! That thing.
21:46:06 <fizzie> It had a built-in IRC client, I think.
21:46:11 <fizzie> It was also the worst.
21:46:12 <Gregor-3DS> Taneb: Probably better.
21:46:14 <fizzie> (There are many worst.)
21:46:38 <Gregor> That was, in fact, web chat on 3DS.
21:47:16 <fizzie> I can't find a sensible screenshot of the DSOrganize IRC. But it was worst.
21:47:50 <coppro> worse than mirc?
21:48:00 <fizzie> Oh, there's a set of screenshots, but they're just about how to use DSOrganize IRC + bitlbee in order to MSN from the DS.
21:49:06 <fizzie> It also has the worst web browser.
21:49:16 <fizzie> Maybe webchat on it would be doubleworst.
21:50:28 -!- Gregor-3DS has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
21:53:03 <Gregor> The browser on 3DS (built in, not a hack) isn't TERRIBLE, but I wouldn't want to use it too much.
21:53:53 <oerjan> doubleplusungood
21:59:30 <fizzie> The DSOrganize one is terrible.
22:00:04 <fizzie> http://nds.scenebeta.com/biblioarchivosdrupal/nds_pub/active/0/dso1.png that's it browsing bash.org.
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22:25:13 <Gregor> I'm considering buying a DS homebrew cart for my 3DS.
22:25:18 <Gregor> Is there any vaguely-worthwhile homebrew?
22:27:53 <zzo38> There might be some. There might also be some homebrew for other systems which can be emulated on DS
22:29:44 <Fiora> last I heard flash karts still don't work on the DSi or 3DS...
22:30:32 <Gregor> Fiora: The right ones do, the wrong ones never will.
22:30:48 <Gregor> Fiora: The ones for 3DS are just DS-mode though, there's no true 3DS homebrew yet.
22:41:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:45:09 <FreeFull> Nintendo doesn't like homebrew much
22:50:49 -!- TeruFSX has joined.
22:51:53 <Gregor> FreeFull: Indeed.
23:04:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:05:53 <sgeo_> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
23:05:55 <sgeo_> http://scpclassic.wikidot.com/scp-031
23:06:02 <sgeo_> Thank you, scpclassic person
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