←2012-12-16 2012-12-17 2012-12-18→ ↑2012 ↑all
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00:20:47 <GreyKnight> @ask zzo38 Under "games" on zzo38computer.org, hangman has a weird line type. Can you explain? Also, I can't access the root menu by sending a blank selector, only "root".
00:20:47 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:26:39 <GreyKnight> `welcome shachaf
00:26:41 <HackEgo> shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
00:26:49 <shachaf> hi
00:28:00 <GreyKnight> welcome to #esoteric
00:28:11 <shachaf> GreyKnight: thanks
00:28:21 <shachaf> It's just not the same when it's not from elliott.
00:29:56 -!- GreyKnight has set topic: The international hub for exothermic voodoo programming and astral software projection and deployment. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
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00:38:01 <GreyKnight> `quote
00:38:03 <HackEgo> 117) <CakeProphet> how does a "DNA computer" work. <CakeProphet> von neumann machines? <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. <Phantom_Hoover> It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own.
00:38:35 <GreyKnight> `quote
00:38:36 <HackEgo> 635) <CakeProphet> but yeah the caliphates expanded their empire by conquering people and then forcing them to either convert to Islam or die. [...] <oerjan> i thought it was sort of, convert to islam or pay extra taxes, but i guess it varied a lot.
00:38:49 <GreyKnight> `quote
00:38:51 <HackEgo> 284) <Vorpal> elliott, it was an artful robbery! <Vorpal> wait, murder
00:38:55 <GreyKnight> `quote
00:38:57 <GreyKnight> `quote
00:38:57 <HackEgo> 350) <Gregor> You have no idea how desperately I want to avoid being a GC guy :P <Gregor> Every year I go to ISMM and Doug Lea gives me a bizarrely-cheery "Hello!" and I'm like "awww shit I'm in memory management"
00:38:58 <HackEgo> 691) <oerjan> fizzie: wait the germans burned lapland? they also burned finnmark. <fizzie> oerjan: It's a bit of what they do. This was the time when we no longer were such good friends any more, and told them to go away.
00:39:23 <GreyKnight> finnmark is a place?
00:39:25 <GreyKnight> or was maybe
00:39:35 <shachaf> `echo hi
00:39:38 <HackEgo> hi
00:39:40 <shachaf> `quote
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00:39:46 <HackEgo> 692) <Phantom_Hoover> oh jesus my mother is trying to ship bear grylls with miranda hart aerio;jghaeirugha
00:39:47 <HackEgo> 699) <Phantom_Hoover> There.... is a box of Gardasil next to the butter in my fridge. <Phantom_Hoover> At least my sandwich will be immune to cervical cancer *and* genital warts, I suppose.
00:39:47 <HackEgo> 819) <Gregor> My latest FB post: The worst part of floating point math is not the fact that 0.1 + 0.2 yields 0.30000000000000004, but trying to explain to people why their language is horribly broken if 0.1 + 0.2 does NOT yield 0.30000000000000004.
00:39:47 <HackEgo> 401) * Sgeo is risking massive forest fires <Sgeo> The bacon is worth it
00:39:47 <HackEgo> 273) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something
00:40:27 <shachaf> 692 or 401?
00:41:54 * GreyKnight takes aim at 692
00:42:44 <GreyKnight> delquote 692
00:42:49 <GreyKnight> my aim sucks
00:42:55 <shachaf> `quote aim
00:42:57 <HackEgo> 94) <soupdragon> if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect <soupdragon> ^ I learned that trick from atheists \ 184) <elliott> oerjan: What, can girls aim their penises better? \ 291) <crystal-cola> anyway I've stopped ``trolling'' <crystal-cola> since appare
00:43:06 <GreyKnight> `delquote 692
00:43:11 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <Phantom_Hoover> oh jesus my mother is trying to ship bear grylls with miranda hart aerio;jghaeirugha
00:43:16 <shachaf> `quote
00:43:16 <shachaf> `quote
00:43:17 <shachaf> `quote
00:43:17 <shachaf> `quote
00:43:17 <shachaf> `quote
00:43:19 <HackEgo> 759) <Gregor> Very much like "cen" is Latin for "horse", "yak" is Latin for "yak".
00:43:19 <HackEgo> 318) <monqy> my most fresh dream is one where I'm at a soup contest and a chicken really wants to participate but he's disqualified so he becomes the judge. when all the soups are done and he's ready to taste them he just stares at the soup and then I become the chicken and I really want to make soup
00:43:19 <HackEgo> 549) <Gregor> Hulu's movie selection is like MST3K without the MST3K characters.
00:43:20 <HackEgo> 367) <Phantom_Hoover> The wickedest man of all. <Phantom_Hoover> Surpassed only in wickedness by the wicked witches of the west and east. <copumpkin> you talking about me again? <Phantom_Hoover> Yes. <copumpkin> k
00:43:20 <HackEgo> 133) <cpressey> Never ever use a quote which contains both the words "aloofness" and "gel" (verb).
00:43:57 <GreyKnight> none seem particularly bad, mass pardon
00:44:12 <shachaf> `quote
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00:44:14 <HackEgo> 746) <Taneb> thank you verse I'm not quite innocent
00:44:15 <HackEgo> 216) <fizzie> Deewiant: Did you take the course at some point and/or were you taking it now and/or did you actually already graduate and/or are you still in Otaniemi anyway?
00:44:15 <HackEgo> 670) <MDude> A quick look as WIikipedia ways that Wicca is a specific form of paganism related to witchcraft. <MDude> That agrees with what I know from that Scoobie Doo movie with the wiccans in it.
00:44:15 <HackEgo> 648) <monqy> i cnat eve begin to understand what you meant with that "one"
00:44:16 <HackEgo> 49) <Warrigal> I think hamsters cannot be inert.
00:44:41 <shachaf> 746?
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00:44:55 <shachaf> `quote dream
00:44:57 <HackEgo> 156) <zzo38> catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream \ 241) <nddrylliog> back to legal tender, that expression really makes me daydream. Like, there'd be black-market tender. Out-of-town hug shops where people exchange tenderness you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE. \ 251) <Phantom__Hoover> Gregor, yeah, but P
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00:47:42 <GreyKnight> it's nearly 01:00, I'mma sleep
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00:48:27 <shachaf> @ask monqy only you can save mankind
00:48:28 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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01:00:50 <ion> @ask shachaf
01:00:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:00:58 <shachaf> @tell ion
01:00:59 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:01:03 <ion> @messages
01:01:04 <lambdabot> shachaf said 5s ago:
01:01:08 <shachaf> @massages
01:01:09 <lambdabot> ion asked 18s ago:
01:01:15 <shachaf> ion: Consider yourself told.
01:01:22 * ion considers himself told.
01:01:58 <shachaf> @tell ion off
01:01:59 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:02:17 <shachaf> sgeo: less nested. lessted.
01:02:44 <sgeo> See, I'm not the only one who brings chit-chat from other channels into here!
01:02:46 <ion> @@ @tell shachaf @echo @echo @echo @echo
01:02:47 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:03:04 <shachaf> @clear-massages
01:03:04 <lambdabot> Messages cleared.
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01:34:31 <shachaf> kmc: Do you know, if you have void foo(void (*)(void *p, T *x), void *p); which calls the function n times with the pointer you pass it, how to interface with it from GHC?
01:34:57 <quintopia> !bfjoust weird >(+)*20(>)*5([-[++[>([-[++[(>(+)*100[+][-][+.])*21]]])*22]]]>)*23(+)*112[[+][-][+]]
01:35:00 <shachaf> You could use foreign "wrapper" but that seems like overkill when you have an extra pointer right there.
01:35:09 <EgoBot> ​Score for quintopia_weird: 17.8
01:35:15 <quintopia> haha
01:35:44 <shachaf> Ideally you'd be able to take apart a GHC closure and put it back together on the other end, but in this case let's say you just want to foreign export a function and pass an IORef for each iteration -- is there an easy way of doing that?
01:35:45 <quintopia> there's a nasty bug in that that is the only reason it can beat space_hotel. it amuses me.
01:38:06 <shachaf> I guess you could use a StablePtr?
01:43:22 <kmc> shachaf: i don't quite follow
01:43:33 <kmc> do you want to use a haskell function as the first argument to 'foo'?
01:43:37 <shachaf> Yes.
01:43:48 <shachaf> Ideally I want to use a Haskell closure.
01:44:09 <shachaf> But without actually generating executable code at runtime.
01:44:16 <shachaf> I think StablePtr is the answer to "how to do it explicitly".
01:44:33 <kmc> right
01:44:56 <kmc> you would get a StablePtr to a function and use that for 'p'?
01:45:28 <sgeo> elliott, Phantom__Hoover Fiora
01:46:35 <shachaf> kmc: That'd work.
01:46:40 <shachaf> I guess you can't really do better than that.
01:48:23 <shachaf> StablePtrs also need to be managed explicitly, but I suppose you can't do much about that.
01:59:32 <quintopia> !bfjoust even >(+)*20(>)*5([-[++[>>>([-[++[(>>(+)*105(+.)*46)*21]]]>)*22]]]>)*23(+)*112[[+][-][+]]
01:59:35 <EgoBot> ​Score for quintopia_even: 6.6
01:59:38 <quintopia> hehe
03:09:43 <shachaf> fizzie: I just failed to type Functor twice in a row, typing Fungot instead.
03:09:44 <shachaf> I blame you.
03:09:56 <shachaf> ANd now a third time.
03:09:58 <shachaf> fungot!
03:09:58 <fungot> shachaf: the present is a passed future is to invent a computational model
03:10:05 <shachaf> thx
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04:03:43 <kmc> hey language lawyers, in C is &(f->a) undefined behavior for NULL f?
04:04:05 <shachaf> As in offsetof()?
04:05:14 <kmc> yes offsetof might use that
04:05:50 <kmc> which is why i am not sure
04:06:07 <Gregor> I doubt that it's undefined, and that's so frequently an implementation of offsetof, I'd be surprised if any compiler choked on it.
04:06:21 <kmc> someone is seeing compiler behavior which would be easily explained if &(f->a) is undefined
04:06:58 <Gregor> Hm
04:09:30 <shachaf> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7897877/how-does-the-c-offsetof-macro-work claims that defining your own offsetof that way is UB.
04:09:37 <kmc> specifically: void f(struct foo *x) { g(&x->a); } void g(int *a) { if (a) { ... } }
04:09:41 <kmc> segfaults on f(NULL)
04:10:22 <shachaf> Really?
04:10:26 <shachaf> Hm.
04:10:51 <kmc> that is how they have described their problem to me
04:10:56 <kmc> i have not attempted to reproduce it
04:12:14 <shachaf> Well, that's a different matter, though.
04:12:22 <shachaf> That can be UB even if getting the address isn't UB.
04:12:43 <shachaf> Are you allowed to do if (invalid_pointer) ?
04:13:00 <shachaf> I'm pretty sure void *p = malloc(n); free(p); if (p) { ... } is UB
04:13:27 <kmc> hmm
04:13:39 <kmc> that is strange but believable
04:13:56 <shachaf> There was the example of some machine (IBM something?) that had registers that could only contain valid pointers.
04:14:30 <kmc> how would you even represent NULL on this platform?
04:14:53 <shachaf> NULL might be a special case.
04:15:29 <shachaf> I don't remember the details exactly.
04:15:41 <shachaf> This was one of mauke's example UB programs.
04:16:29 <shachaf> But I think the C standard specifically said you can't do almost anything with invalid pointers.
04:17:09 <Gregor> #musl is the place to ask.
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06:06:37 <lifthrasiir> Gregor, should I note that ShaFuck has been broken? http://shinhoge.blogspot.kr/2012/12/shafuck-is-not-unbeatable.html
06:07:49 <Gregor> No, he did it wrong.
06:08:06 <Gregor> “with the caveat that comments are not allowed”
06:08:13 <Gregor> That's been in the description since the beginning.
06:08:47 <lifthrasiir> okay, to be precise the *current implementation* of ShaFuck has been broken
06:09:10 <lifthrasiir> you should fix a security hole ;)
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06:13:20 <Gregor> What the heck?!
06:13:25 <Gregor> Why does my implementation accept this?!?!?!
06:13:41 <Gregor> default:
06:13:41 <Gregor> fprintf(stderr, "Unrecognized operation '%c' (%02X)\n",
06:13:41 <Gregor> shaprog.buf[pi], (unsigned char) shaprog.buf[pi]);
06:13:41 <Gregor> exit(1);
06:15:07 <lifthrasiir> Gregor: http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=ShaFuck&action=historysubmit&diff=35114&oldid=34130
06:15:27 <lifthrasiir> that check is only run when the instruction is about to be executed
06:15:30 <Bike> you mentioned it before, but i'd just like to compliment "The Eval that Men Do"
06:15:51 <lifthrasiir> lol
06:15:58 <Gregor> Yeah, I understand now.
06:16:32 <Bike> usually puns in paper names just piss me off but i like this one for some reason
06:16:56 <Gregor> X-D
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06:22:27 <sgeo> elliott monqy Fiora
06:22:30 <sgeo> I'm a bit late
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07:18:32 <Jafet> @quote badpun
07:18:32 <lambdabot> danharaj says: unsafeCoerce should be renamed to badPun
07:19:27 <popl> Jafet: Did you used to hang out in ##C++?
07:21:01 <Jafet> Possibly
07:21:27 <popl> Ok.
07:22:06 <Jafet> @quote jafet c++
07:22:06 <lambdabot> jafet says: "Zygomorphism" sounds like a reproductive disorder
07:22:11 <Jafet> @quote jafet c\+\+
07:22:11 <lambdabot> No quotes match. Maybe you made a typo?
07:22:25 <Jafet> @quote Jafet c\+\+
07:22:25 <lambdabot> Jafet says: [on ##c++] They're not nasty; their niceness is just distributed over more people.
07:24:29 <popl> Jafet: I hung out there in a past life. I seem to remember you, is all.
07:24:31 <popl> It's nothing.
07:25:14 <popl> I should not have brought it up.
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07:28:46 <fizzie> But now it's brought up, and can never be taken down. :/
07:30:34 <Jafet> Send me a DMCA notice
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09:53:18 <oerjan> @tell GreyKnight <GreyKnight> finnmark is a place? <-- yes it is (norway's largest county (by area, not population), it got rebuilt after the germans burnt it); for some reason this amazes certain people on this channel...
09:53:18 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
09:57:22 <oklofok> don't believe him, it's just their name for finland and he's being incredibly racist.
09:59:18 <oklofok> we've been autonomous from the democratic republik of the norways for _years_
10:02:08 <oerjan> @tell GreyKnight Other county names you may find amusing - oh heck let me just list them all: Akershus, Aust-Agder, Buskerud, Finnmark, Hedmark, Hordaland, Møre og Romsdal, Nord-Trøndelag, Nordland, Oppland, Oslo, Rogaland, Sogn og Fjordane, Sør-Trøndelag, Telemark, Troms, Vest-Agder, Vestfold, and Østfold.
10:02:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
10:02:28 <shachaf> hi oerjan
10:02:30 <shachaf> did you hear about
10:02:32 <shachaf> SUPER LENSES
10:02:32 <oerjan> hi shachaf
10:02:35 <shachaf> monqy: hi
10:02:40 <oerjan> oh no
10:02:42 <monqy> :(
10:02:44 <oklofok> does "Møre og Romsdal" mean "more of romsdal"
10:02:51 <oklofok> or moors of Romsdal
10:02:53 <oerjan> oklofok: no.
10:03:03 <oklofok> you are in trondheim no?
10:03:07 <oerjan> yes.
10:03:16 <oklofok> no = norway in that ofc
10:03:25 <oerjan> OKAY
10:03:37 <oklofok> so there were some positions advertised in your uni
10:03:47 <oerjan> toronhaimo no
10:03:55 <oerjan> (-- emperor akihito)
10:04:49 <oerjan> "og" means "and", hth
10:05:01 <oklofok> i know
10:06:39 <oklofok> i know like 3 norwegian words _fluently_
10:07:20 <fizzie> Telemark is a place?
10:07:43 <oklofok> cool
10:07:54 <oklofok> i suppose that's where the term comes?
10:08:23 <oklofok> so "o/" if you get adjoints
10:08:28 <oklofok> in category theory
10:08:32 <oklofok> because i don't.
10:08:57 <oklofok> (i won't ask about them, just interested)
10:09:02 <oerjan> the skiing term? yes.
10:09:04 <oklofok> (^ for oerjan)
10:09:53 <fizzie> Is Oppland very high opp?
10:09:57 <oerjan> i vaguely get adjoints. i understand that free and underlying functors are adjoint, and that composing adjoints gives (all) monads
10:10:30 <oerjan> fizzie: they do have mountains, although i think it's more in the "up from the coast" sense
10:10:50 <fizzie> Do they also have ircops?
10:10:50 <oerjan> it's the only county not to have a coast
10:10:56 <oklofok> there's this paper about how CA are comonadic and how some known results come from that fact for free
10:11:20 <fizzie> oerjan: "Oppland is, together with Hedmark, one of the only two landlocked counties of Norway."
10:11:33 <fizzie> Is Wikipedia or oerjan the liar? You decide!
10:11:51 <oerjan> hey you're not a liar just because you make an off-by-one error.
10:11:54 <oklofok> they counted it twice because it's also landlocked from above.
10:12:03 <oklofok> that's why the name
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10:12:33 <oklofok> that was inevitable.
10:12:47 <oerjan> i misremembered a quiz answer from the newspaper. oppland is the only one to have _neither_ a coast nor a border with a neighboring country.
10:13:00 <shachaf> monqy: did you learn lenses yet
10:13:02 <shachaf> monqy: don't
10:13:07 <shachaf> monqy: forget everything you know about lenses
10:13:36 <oklofok> does inevitable also mean someone who cannot be evited anywhere because they're not on facebook
10:14:03 <oerjan> eviting is a facebook term now?
10:14:24 * oerjan is inevitable *MWAHAHAHAHA*
10:14:25 <monqy> shachaf: that's my plan
10:14:33 <oklofok> i'm not
10:14:35 <oklofok> i'm on facebook
10:14:43 <oerjan> *gasp*
10:14:55 <oklofok> been for like half a year now
10:15:03 <shachaf> monqy: because we've just made lenses
10:15:06 <shachaf> A BILLION TIMES BETTER
10:15:10 <shachaf> at LEAST
10:15:11 <oklofok> it was quite a thrill at first, you should try it
10:15:45 <oklofok> i can be your friend, i'm trying to get to 10000.
10:15:55 <oerjan> shachaf: does that mean we can do polymorphic update with fields that must be the same type?
10:16:56 <shachaf> oerjan: type Iso s t a b = (Functor f, Functor g) => (g a -> f b) -> g s -> f t
10:16:59 <oerjan> ...i refuse to believe anyone on this channel can get to 10000 without becoming famous first.
10:17:25 <oerjan> um Iso is already known isn't it?
10:17:49 <oerjan> oops this is different
10:18:03 <oerjan> or is it.
10:18:18 <oerjan> to know, i would first have to know the original Iso properly.
10:18:34 <oerjan> oh well i assume i'll read all about it on reddit.
10:19:28 <oerjan> wait, maybe oklofok _is_ famous. he could be in a black metal band without having told us. (or perhaps having told and us forgetting.)
10:20:04 <shachaf> oerjan: It's different.
10:20:24 * oerjan vaguely recalls oklofok looks like he's in a black metal band, despite never having seen a picture of him.
10:20:36 <oklofok> i have been in at least one metal band at pretty much any given moment of my life.
10:20:57 <oklofok> oerjan: i think i have like 20 friends on fb atm
10:20:59 <fizzie> `runc int main(void) { printf("%s", -0x80000000 > 0 ? "C is tricksy" : "logic still holds"); }
10:21:01 <oerjan> yay my prejudices are correct! as always.
10:21:03 <HackEgo> C is tricksy
10:21:30 <oerjan> oklofok: i'd like to see a picture of you in a metal band as a baby.
10:21:57 <oklofok> i don't like doing gigs so fame is not really a threat
10:22:02 <oerjan> ok
10:22:48 <oklofok> i've been on three gigs as a singer for other bands, and that's it unless you count performances at school
10:24:13 <sgeo> elliott, monqy Fiora
10:24:16 <sgeo> 4:14
10:24:20 <Jafet> `runc int main() { puts(__typeof__(0x80000000)); }
10:24:22 <HackEgo> No output.
10:24:40 <oerjan> fizzie: um i assume that 8 is the sign bit...
10:25:19 <oerjan> alternatively the type is unsigned
10:25:33 <fizzie> oerjan: 0x80000000 ends up unsigned, yes.
10:25:38 <Jafet> `runc int main() { printf("%z, %z", 0x80000000, -0x80000000); }
10:25:41 <HackEgo> ​%, %
10:25:45 <fizzie> 0x7fffffff would be signed, as would 0x100000000.
10:25:49 <Jafet> `runc int main() { printf("%d, %d", 0x80000000, -0x80000000); }
10:25:52 <HackEgo> ​-2147483648, -2147483648
10:26:01 <fizzie> You're printing them wrong.
10:26:12 <fizzie> They're unsigned ints and you're telling printf to print signed ints.
10:26:14 <Jafet> `runc int main() { printf("%s", 0x80000000); }
10:26:17 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/runc: line 3: 283 Segmentation fault $t
10:26:33 <oerjan> `runc int main(void) { printf("%s", -(int)0x80000000 > 0 ? "C is tricksy" : "logic still holds"); }
10:26:35 <HackEgo> logic still holds
10:26:41 <oerjan> OKAY
10:27:06 <fizzie> `runc int main(void) { printf("%s", -0x100000000 > 0 ? "C is tricksy" : "logic still holds"); }
10:27:09 <HackEgo> logic still holds
10:27:27 <fizzie> That one works because it doesn't fit in unsigned int either, and therefore goes to signed long (or long long).
10:27:54 <oerjan> ok then, C _is_ tricksy.
10:28:02 <fizzie> `runc int main(void) { printf("%s", -2147483648 > 0 ? "C is tricksy" : "logic still holds"); }
10:28:05 <HackEgo> logic still holds
10:28:13 <fizzie> And that one works because decimal constants have different rules than octal/hex constants.
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10:29:05 <oerjan> ais523: fizzie is abusing C again, ban him!
10:29:30 <ais523> oerjan: isn't C /made/ to be abused?
10:29:38 <oerjan> ...point.
10:29:44 <fizzie> Just look at how it's dressed. It's obvious it wants to be abused.
10:31:54 <oklofok> okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko
10:35:03 <fizzie> Also also, 2147483648 is unsigned in C90 if LONG_MAX < 2147483648, but signed always in C99. So -2147483648 > 0 might end up true too, e.g. on a "32-bit" C90 system.
10:37:31 <elliott> `lang c int main(void) { printf("abc\n"); }
10:37:32 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: lang: not found
10:37:46 <fizzie> I did try "interp c" and it didn't work out at all.
10:38:26 <fizzie> In fact, none of the 'gcccomp'-based ones really seem to be working.
10:38:39 <fizzie> `interp c printf("abc"); /* IIRC it has a template */
10:38:56 <HackEgo> cat: /bin: Is a directory \ Does not compile. \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: fork: retry: Resource temporarily unavailable \ ./
10:38:57 <fizzie> Just look at that mess.
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10:59:35 <ais521> Hello
11:01:25 <Jafet> I didn't know you could run two versions of ais at the same time.
11:04:01 <oerjan> it's a highly dangerous prospect
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11:06:48 <fizzie> Ais Dismikroutsikos. (By way of analogy from Hermes Trismegistus, via a complete lack of knowledge of Greek.)
11:06:48 <oerjan> most likely some feather operation went wrong and duplicated a version retroactively instead of replacing it
11:07:50 <oerjan> it will have happened during another test of the implementation
11:09:05 <fizzie> Perhaps it "wioll haven be" happened.
11:10:08 <fizzie> ("You can arrive (mayan arivan on-when) for any sitting you like without prior (late fore-when) reservation because you can book retrospectively, as it were when you return to your own time. (You can have on-book haventa forewhen presooning returningwenta retrohome.)")
11:10:53 <elliott> ais521: you should really pick a less confusing nickname.
11:11:48 <ais521> I'll just go back to the old one then
11:11:52 -!- ais521 has changed nick to AnotherTest.
11:12:08 <AnotherTest> :(
11:13:43 <elliott> YetAnotherTest
11:14:25 -!- AnotherTest has changed nick to YetAnotherTestBe.
11:14:36 -!- YetAnotherTestBe has changed nick to AnotherTest.
11:14:54 <AnotherTest> Well YetAnotherTestBeforeTheActualRelease was too long
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11:40:17 <Jafet> ParoleCandidate
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12:10:49 <ais523> <oerjan> most likely some feather operation went wrong and duplicated a version retroactively instead of replacing it ← this is entirely possible, you can even do it intentionally if you feel like it; the easiest way is to retroactively set an object to something that contains a copy of itself
12:11:11 <ais523> then you can repeat arbitrarily many times, in order to create an object that's based entirely on itself, as far back as anyone checks
12:11:43 <ais523> and this is how, I hope at least, you can retroactively change an ancestor of a Feather implementation to always have been written in Feather
12:11:56 <ais523> as you might gather, though, I've never actually been able to make it work
12:13:13 <oerjan> i get a "trying to switch quantifiers" vibe
12:14:33 <oerjan> from "for all n you can get it to be feather back to that n" to "you can get it to be feather for all n"
12:14:48 <oerjan> which is not necessarily mathematically sound
12:15:48 <oerjan> or, the thing about "as far back as anyone checks" is that you need to repeat that far, which is uncomputable in advance
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12:36:38 <ais523> oerjan: nah, you have retroactive changes, so you start by picking an arbitrary number of times to repeat
12:36:49 <ais523> should someone check back further than that, then you retroactively change it to be more
12:38:09 <oerjan> as long as you have enough monitoring to detect the check...
12:38:22 <oerjan> this sounds vaguely totalitarian :P
12:41:38 <ais523> oerjan: well the great thing is, by default the monitoring is perfect, but you can retroactively change it to be imperfect and get back in history that way :)
12:41:56 <oerjan> OKAY
12:42:12 <oerjan> DOUBLEPLUSGOOD
12:50:29 <AnotherTest> How many characters can an average human read a second?
12:50:35 <oerjan> 42
12:50:51 <AnotherTest> I really need this in fact
12:51:37 <oerjan> ah. sadly that means murphy's law triggers and you will find the entire universe keeping the information from you.
12:52:07 <AnotherTest> Well, I guess I'll just determine an average speed of reading a character by testing it
12:54:15 <AnotherTest> It doesn't matter really
12:54:26 <AnotherTest> I just a somewhat realistic number
12:55:08 <AnotherTest> 18.4 is probably good
12:55:18 <AnotherTest> well good enough
12:57:10 <fizzie> "While the average adult reading rate is 250 words per minute --" Wikipedia "Speed reading" article.
12:57:43 <oerjan> `run words 250 | wc
12:57:49 <HackEgo> ​ 1 25 169
12:57:56 <oerjan> THERE YOU GO
12:58:22 <fizzie> 250 words is 25 words?
12:58:29 <oerjan> I SENSE POSSIBLY A BUG HERE
12:58:58 <fizzie> I'm not sure if words' length distribution is particularly reliable either. I remember it being discussed, though.
12:59:20 <AnotherTest> Well, 18 aw actually pretty close to 20.8333
12:59:23 <AnotherTest> *was
12:59:29 <AnotherTest> assuming a word is about 5 characters
12:59:39 <fizzie> 5 is a good estimate for that.
12:59:43 <shachaf> > 5*8
12:59:44 <lambdabot> 40
12:59:57 <shachaf> Well, I guess a character isn't necessarily 8 bits.
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13:01:56 <AnotherTest> hm
13:02:31 <AnotherTest> let's say that it takes about .5 to make a mouse click if you don't have to move the mouse and your finger is already on it?
13:02:35 <AnotherTest> *.5s
13:02:48 <AnotherTest> or maybe less
13:03:04 <AnotherTest> 350 ms will do nice
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13:15:09 <sgeo> Oh hey Superosity has a 12/21 story arc, almost forgot about that
13:15:49 <nortti> `run pwd
13:15:50 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv
13:40:41 <oklofok> 350 is pretty slow for a reaction time + mouse click, and i'm pretty sure the actual click is less than half of that
13:41:26 <AnotherTest> Yeah, I decided to put it on 250 ms afterall
13:42:09 <oklofok> that's a nice leisurely clicking speed prolly
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13:52:41 <sgeo> Should I bother trying to get Factor running on HackEgo?
13:52:52 <monqy> why not
13:53:20 <shachaf> monqy......
13:53:27 * sgeo takes monqy's statement as support for that action, despite the possibility it might have been sarcastic
13:53:37 <sgeo> `uname -a
13:53:37 <shachaf> monqy: did you hear about incredilenses
13:53:38 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.0.8-umlbox #2 Sun Nov 13 21:30:28 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
13:53:46 <monqy> shachaf: multiple times, yes.
13:53:54 <sgeo> `wget http://downloads.factorcode.org/releases/0.95/factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz
13:53:56 <HackEgo> ​--2012-12-17 13:53:55-- http://downloads.factorcode.org/releases/0.95/factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ Connecting to failed: Connection refused.
13:54:10 <sgeo> ??
13:54:21 <sgeo> `curl http://downloads.factorcode.org/releases/0.95/factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz
13:54:24 <HackEgo> ​ % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current \ Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed \
13:55:06 <sgeo> `ls
13:55:07 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ ibins \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.rockspec \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.src.rock \ luarocks.err \ luarocks.out \ paste \ penlight-1.0.0-1.rockspec \ penlight-1.0.0-1.src.rock \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o
13:55:20 <sgeo> :/
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13:55:33 <sgeo> `fetch http://downloads.factorcode.org/releases/0.95/factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz
13:55:52 <sgeo> `ls
13:55:56 <HackEgo> 2012-12-17 13:55:52 URL:http://downloads.factorcode.org/releases/0.95/factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz [33944136/33944136] -> "factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz" [1]
13:55:57 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ ibins \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.rockspec \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.src.rock \ luarocks.err \ luarocks.out \ paste \ penlight-1.0.0-1.rockspec \ penlight-1.0.0-1.src.rock \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \ zalgo.hi
13:56:22 <sgeo> `tar xvaf factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz
13:56:24 <HackEgo> tar: Old option `f' requires an argument. \ Try `tar --help' or `tar --usage' for more information.
13:56:30 <sgeo> `run tar xvaf factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz
13:56:35 <HackEgo> factor/ \ factor/factor.image \ File size limit exceeded
13:59:34 <shachaf> monqy: just thought you might want to know
13:59:50 <shachaf> monqy: good night
14:00:26 <monqy> good night
14:02:09 <sgeo> `ulimit -f
14:02:10 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ulimit: not found
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17:06:25 -!- quintopia has set topic: Th i te na io al hu f r xo he mi v od o ro ra mi g nd as ra s ft ar p oj ct on an d pl ym nt | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
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17:45:37 <sgeo> `run ulimit
17:45:39 <HackEgo> 10240
17:46:04 <sgeo> `run ulimit -f
17:46:05 <HackEgo> 10240
17:46:53 <sgeo> My ulimit says the unit is blocks
17:54:30 <sgeo> Found a bug in Factor
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18:17:25 <fizzie> My "man bash" says it's in 1024-byte increments, except for some exceptions.
18:17:38 <fizzie> (It's the bash ulimit, after all.)
18:17:56 <Deewiant> blocks The number of 512-byte blocks to use as the new file size limit.
18:18:21 <Deewiant> From my POSIX ulimit man page.
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18:21:09 <kmc> is there a particular reason why the command is named 'ulimit' but the system calls are named after 'rlimit'
18:21:34 <fizzie> Yes, but the command being executed there *is* the bash ulimit. See e.g. http://sprunge.us/VjNg
18:21:51 <fizzie> `run sh -c 'ulimit -f'
18:21:52 <HackEgo> 20480
18:21:55 <fizzie> Now that, that's in blocks.
18:22:34 <Deewiant> How nice that there's this arbitrary difference.
18:23:06 <sgeo> o.O ?
18:23:36 <sgeo> So what exactly is the maximum file size in a sane unit?
18:23:51 <fizzie> Ten megs.
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18:24:23 <fizzie> 10240 kilobytes or 20480 512-byte blocks.
18:24:27 <sgeo> :/ at the Factor image being more than that
18:25:00 <sgeo> Or at least, that's why I assume it didn't work
18:25:25 <sgeo> 68.1MB
18:25:31 <sgeo> At least, my copy is
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18:53:26 <GreyKnight> (re: /topic) Every third character? What a boring pattern.
18:53:27 <lambdabot> GreyKnight: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
18:54:30 <GreyKnight> @tell oerjan I thought that perhaps Finland and Denmark had merged, and I had missed the memo
18:54:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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18:57:23 <fizzie> Merged, and then split again back into Finnmark and Denland?
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19:14:31 <GreyKnight> maybe take half of each and pair them up crosswise
19:23:14 <kmc> crossover is important!
19:40:45 <olsner> every third character? that's "T tniah rxhm oorrmgnar fa ocoa pynt" which makes no sense
19:45:05 <sgeo> https://github.com/slavapestov/factor/issues/763
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19:49:51 -!- GreyKnight has set topic: T n ern t ona ub or es t ric p ogr m ing langu ge de i n and dep o ment! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
19:50:05 <GreyKnight> This is a much better pattern
19:51:25 <GreyKnight> sgeo: you might be the first tester :-P
19:51:37 <sgeo> ..?
19:52:19 <sgeo> The first person to type wrong locals syntax into Factor?
19:52:25 <sgeo> Almost wrote Clojure, derp
19:54:30 <GreyKnight> you said Factor had a tiny community, so perhaps the implementation you are using has only been used by its author so far :-)
19:56:00 <kmc> "The ngx_http_empty_gif_module keeps a 1x1 transparent GIF in memory that can be served very quickly."
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19:58:20 <oerjan> @mousages
19:58:20 <lambdabot> GreyKnight said 1h 3m 49s ago: I thought that perhaps Finland and Denmark had merged, and I had missed the memo
19:59:47 <oerjan> <sgeo> Should I bother trying to get Factor running on HackEgo?
19:59:54 <oerjan> sheesh HackEgo already has factor
19:59:59 <oerjan> `factor 72
20:00:00 <HackEgo> 72: 2 2 2 3 3
20:00:12 <oerjan> hth
20:01:10 <sgeo> I wonder if I can make the factor.image smaller by bootstrapping it
20:01:21 <sgeo> Is it reasonable to try to compile stuff on HackEgo?
20:01:23 <GreyKnight> `factor let :>
20:01:25 <HackEgo> factor: `let :>' is not a valid positive integer
20:01:36 <sgeo> The problem is [let :> ]
20:01:46 <GreyKnight> oh
20:01:56 <sgeo> Which is bad syntax, but it breaks the parser in such a way that good syntax later fails
20:01:57 <olsner> `run ls -l `which factor`
20:01:59 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 0 0 31584 Apr 28 2010 /usr/bin/factor
20:02:04 <GreyKnight> I guess I don't know enough Factor to make jokes about it :<
20:02:41 <kmc> Factor? more like fat turd
20:02:42 <kmc> there
20:02:45 <kmc> a witty joke
20:02:58 <GreyKnight> FSVO "witty"
20:03:19 <sgeo> If you look at it just right, it's a comment on the size of factor.image
20:03:31 <GreyKnight> sgeo: I managed to compile Lua on HackEgo although it was a bit awkward
20:03:36 <kmc> Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping
20:03:58 <GreyKnight> `run echo 'print("hello world")' | lua
20:04:00 <HackEgo> Lua 5.2.1 Copyright (C) 1994-2012 Lua.org, PUC-Rio \ > hello world \ >
20:04:06 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
20:04:09 <GreyKnight> whoops :-U
20:06:17 <oerjan> > map fst . filter((/=' ').snd) $ zip [0..] "T n ern t ona ub or es t ric p ogr m ing langu ge de i n and dep o ment!"
20:06:19 <lambdabot> [0,5,7,8,9,11,13,14,15,19,20,23,24,26,27,29,31,32,33,35,37,38,39,41,43,44,4...
20:06:19 <sgeo> Maybe I should look into Lua
20:06:25 <sgeo> There's an interesting looking Lua IDE...
20:06:46 <kmc> sgeo: maybe you should have long conversations with yourself about Lua in #esoteric
20:06:49 <oerjan> > map fst . filter((==' ').snd) $ zip [1..] "T n ern t ona ub or es t ric p ogr m ing langu ge de i n and dep o ment!"
20:06:51 <lambdabot> [2,3,4,5,7,11,13,17,18,19,22,23,26,29,31,35,37,41,43,47,53,56,59,61,63,67,7...
20:11:23 <GreyKnight> (some of the spaces are from the original, of course)
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20:12:34 <GreyKnight> sgeo: which IDE?
20:13:09 <sgeo> http://studio.zerobrane.com/
20:14:46 <GreyKnight> looks interesting! I usually just use emacs but I might give this a test-drive sometime
20:15:09 <ais521> My AI said "Liberality is books"
20:15:13 <ais521> > :D
20:15:15 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `:'
20:15:57 <ais521> Oops
20:16:03 -!- ais521 has changed nick to AnotherTest.
20:16:37 <GreyKnight> hm I should put a scheme implementation on HackEgo
20:20:18 <GreyKnight> `rng write_one_in_haskell just_download_it_you_goof
20:20:19 <HackEgo> just_download_it_you_goof
20:20:26 <GreyKnight> good plan HackEgo
20:21:38 <nortti> http://qdb.us/308728
20:23:22 <oerjan> > (:D)
20:23:24 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `D'
20:24:16 <nortti> :D
20:26:25 <sgeo> nortti, great, now I'm reading qdb
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20:26:34 <FreeFull> > let D = ":D" in (:D)
20:26:36 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `D'Not in scope: data constructor `D'
20:26:52 <FreeFull> > let :D = ":D" in (:D)
20:26:53 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:5: parse error on input `:'
20:26:59 <FreeFull> > let (:D) = ":D" in (:D)
20:27:01 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:6: Parse error in pattern: : D
20:27:17 <nortti> sgeo: be grateful I din't link tvtropes
20:27:18 <FreeFull> Damn haskell and enforced capitalisation restrictions =P
20:27:32 <FreeFull> > ":D"
20:27:33 <lambdabot> ":D"
20:28:01 <sgeo> elliott, Taneb Phantom_Hoover Fiora monqy
20:28:08 <GreyKnight> > (^_^)
20:28:10 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:5: parse error on input `)'
20:28:58 <GreyKnight> nortti: I got potholed into memory-alpha earlier tonight. Still haven't found my way out.
20:32:54 <FreeFull> > let ^_^ = () in (^_^)
20:32:55 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:5: parse error on input `^'
20:33:02 <FreeFull> > let (^_^) = () in (^_^)
20:33:04 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:9: parse error on input `)'
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20:34:10 <GreyKnight> Man! Syntax is hard.
20:35:37 <Deewiant> _ is considered alphabetic and can't be mixed with symbols like ^
20:36:29 <GreyKnight> > ;_;
20:36:31 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `;'
20:36:40 <GreyKnight> > O_O
20:36:41 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `O_O'
20:36:54 <olsner> ah, yes, _ is clearly an alphabet
20:37:36 <GreyKnight> wait, I got it
20:37:40 <GreyKnight> > '_'
20:37:42 <lambdabot> '_'
20:38:43 <Deewiant> > o_O
20:38:45 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `o_O'
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20:38:57 <AnotherTest> Ask a question please
20:39:15 <AnotherTest> (randomly chosen)
20:39:34 <olsner> 4?
20:39:42 <AnotherTest> full sentence please
20:39:49 <Taneb> sgeo, thanks
20:39:52 <AnotherTest> AI's picky
20:39:57 <nortti> AnotherTest: what is anwer for "this sencence is false"
20:40:24 <AnotherTest> What is answer for "this sentence is false"?
20:40:24 <AnotherTest> ðelphi: It is nay.
20:40:35 <AnotherTest> Beat that. :D
20:40:43 <Taneb> "That isn't a question"
20:40:50 <FreeFull> > "a" != "a"
20:40:51 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `!='
20:40:51 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant one of these:
20:40:51 <lambdabot> `!' (imported from D...
20:40:55 <FreeFull> > "a" /= "a"
20:40:56 <lambdabot> False
20:41:17 <FreeFull> > let x = not x in x
20:41:21 <lambdabot> mueval-core: Time limit exceeded
20:41:39 <nortti> :D
20:43:50 <GreyKnight> AnotherTest: "Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?"
20:45:09 <FreeFull> GreyKnight: Yes!
20:45:14 <AnotherTest> Why has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
20:45:14 <AnotherTest> ðelphi: Or has who would now be preserved as a museum all.
20:45:34 <AnotherTest> drop the why please
20:45:50 <AnotherTest> (I didn't put that in the input)
20:46:03 <GreyKnight> What?
20:46:26 <AnotherTest> Well, it answered "Or has who would now be preserved as a museum all."
20:46:36 <AnotherTest> Which is clearly a rhetorical question
20:46:54 <AnotherTest> It means that rich people from earlier days, don't have everything either
20:46:58 <AnotherTest> because they're dead
20:47:28 <GreyKnight> I mean, why are you telling us to "drop the why" when neither you nor we put it in...?
20:47:46 <AnotherTest> I accidentally put it in my reply
20:47:52 <AnotherTest> but it should not have been there
20:48:07 <AnotherTest> so I told you to imagine that it wasn't there
20:50:45 -!- carado has joined.
20:51:12 * GreyKnight 's head spins ⍨
20:53:24 <nortti> http://qdb.us/7590
20:54:36 <oerjan> nortti: i detect a certain decrease in quality.
20:54:56 -!- zzo38 has joined.
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20:57:10 <GreyKnight> AnotherTest: ask it what will happen if Croesus attacks the Persians
20:58:05 <olsner> AnotherTest: what happens if I attack the Persians?
20:58:37 <Fiora> make sure to have pikemen to defeat their war elephants?
21:00:29 -!- asiekierka has joined.
21:02:21 <elliott> Fiora: I read that as "pikmin". I've barely even played pikmin
21:02:38 <Fiora> I was thinking more along the lines of civilization or age of empires
21:02:42 <GreyKnight> AnotherTest: also ask it how many pikmin are needed to pick up an elephant
21:03:06 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:04:08 <Arc_Koen> pikmin can only pick min can't they?
21:04:15 -!- ais521 has joined.
21:04:21 -!- ais521 has changed nick to AnotherTest.
21:04:43 <olsner> choose pikmax for your elephant piking needs
21:05:48 <kmc> age of empires itt
21:06:34 * Fiora builds trebuchets
21:07:52 -!- nooga has joined.
21:07:55 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Client Quit).
21:08:26 <GreyKnight> zzo38: I have a (mostly functional) lua module for handling gopher communications \o/
21:17:20 <sgeo> "A graffiti message was written in a threatening tone in a mens room on campus. This incident has been investigated. Nevertheless, in light of recent events, we are notifying you. Rest assured, we are taking precautions, including additional State University Police personnel."
21:17:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Huh, 'Haskell' actually has two different etymologies, one English and one Jewish.
21:18:05 <Bike> "jewish"? it doesn't look remotely hebrew, you mean like yiddish or something?
21:18:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Look I'm just reading back from Wiktionary here.
21:18:28 <Bike> "descendent of Ezekiel" well fuck me
21:19:29 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/haskelovski#Serbo-Croatian i
21:19:41 <Bike> i what?
21:19:58 <Phantom_Hoover> 'of or relating to haskell'
21:20:11 <Bike> haskellic
21:20:42 <Bike> great though, now i'm going to be wondering if curry was jewish or norse
21:20:57 <Phantom_Hoover> probably jewish, he was american and a logician after all
21:21:07 <Bike> true
21:21:16 <Phantom_Hoover> hmm
21:21:23 <olsner> "Curry: A family name of Irish origin, from Ó Comhraidhe"
21:21:26 <Phantom_Hoover> wp doesn't list him under 'american jews' or anything, so...
21:21:44 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, so he was an anglo-irish jew
21:21:51 <Phantom_Hoover> mystery solved
21:22:02 <GreyKnight> obvious really
21:22:22 <Phantom_Hoover> "There are three programming languages named after him, Haskell, Brooks and Curry,"
21:22:27 <Phantom_Hoover> what more legacy can a man hope for
21:22:47 <Phantom_Hoover> even gauss only has one name remembered
21:23:18 <Taneb> ...Karl?
21:23:23 <Bike> well carl isn't so great, it's the name of a gas station attendant
21:23:32 <olsner> speaking of nationality disputes, you should start an edit war about it (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars#People)
21:24:20 <Bike> so we're going to have a war about whether curry was (a) an anglo-irish jew (b) a time traveling viking?
21:24:35 -!- augur has joined.
21:24:56 <olsner> obviously a time traveling viking
21:25:59 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
21:26:41 <GreyKnight> Time-travelling anglo-Irish Jewish Viking
21:27:37 <Bike> "also he did some math"
21:28:12 -!- sebbu has joined.
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21:28:12 -!- sebbu has joined.
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21:37:45 <GreyKnight> Well, of course. That's how he invented time travel.
21:40:13 <Phantom_Hoover> The time travel combinator is kept securely locked in a vault a mile beneath Bromwich.
21:45:03 <GreyKnight> s/vault/monad/
21:50:20 <olsner> a burrito is not a very safe place to store time travel combinators
21:50:29 <kmc> -_-
21:53:33 <oerjan> depends _when_ you store it
21:54:31 <GreyKnight> store it so that it is always precisely one second in the past. Perfect security.
21:54:41 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Quit: zzz).
21:59:31 <Phantom_Hoover> olsner, well it's also a mile beneath Bromwich.
21:59:47 <Phantom_Hoover> It's protected both by rock and the fact that nobody cares enough to know where Bromwich is.
22:00:51 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, it's like, South somewhere, right?
22:01:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Apparently it's northwest of Birmingham.
22:01:17 <Taneb> So, yeah
22:01:18 <Taneb> South
22:01:22 <olsner> ... wherever that is :)
22:01:45 <Phantom_Hoover> So just outside the radius at which my understanding of English geography degenerates into "the rest of England".
22:03:11 <Phantom_Hoover> I still have trouble distinguishing Birmingham and Manchester.
22:03:32 <Taneb> Aren't those, like, the same place?
22:03:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Apparently not!
22:03:46 <Taneb> Who knew
22:04:14 <olsner> do they both look like Sheffield?
22:04:25 <Phantom_Hoover> No, one of them looks a bit like Belfast.
22:04:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Sheffield is at least firmly rooted in The North.
22:05:12 <Taneb> Sheffield's south, isn't it?
22:05:32 <olsner> hmm, maybe I'm confusing it with somewhere else
22:05:48 <Taneb> Anyway, goodnight
22:05:49 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:06:16 <Phantom_Hoover> whoah, doncaster's in yorkshire too?
22:16:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:18:58 <zzo38> Do the monad transformer laws imply t Finalize = Finalize
22:18:58 <lambdabot> zzo38: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
22:19:14 <zzo38> ?messages
22:19:14 <lambdabot> GreyKnight asked 21h 58m 29s ago: Under "games" on zzo38computer.org, hangman has a weird line type. Can you explain? Also, I can't access the root menu by sending a blank selector, only "root".
22:20:22 <zzo38> GreyKnight: The weird line type is for brainfuck you can ignore it since it isn't important and it won't work. If you can't access the root menu by sending a blank selector, your gopher client is broken; apparently the two clients included with Debian have this problem, while others work OK.
22:20:37 <zzo38> But you can use "root" as the selector string to work around, if you are having that problem.
22:22:04 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
22:24:13 <zzo38> StateT x Finalize = ReaderT x Finalize = WriterT x Finalize = MaybeT Finalize = Codensity Finalize = Yoneda Finalize = ContT x Finalize = LogicT Finalize = Finalize
22:24:39 <zzo38> The other thing is does the comonad transformers laws imply t Initialize = Initialize
22:25:32 <zzo38> For example EnvT x Initialize = StoreT x Initialize = Density Initialize = TraceT x Initialize = Initialize
22:33:43 <Vorpal> hm, to match up to the boot time of Linux booting from a regular HDD, Windows 7 needs to boot from an SSD on this computer. This is kind of crazy
22:39:15 -!- nooga has joined.
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22:46:06 <Jafet> That's crazy. You must be loading way too few kernel modules into linux.
22:46:32 <Jafet> Install the Unity desktop and try again.
22:47:38 <Phantom_Hoover> does unity load a lot of modules
22:49:03 <Jafet> It loads a lot of compiz plugins.
22:49:12 <shachaf> sgeo.............
22:49:30 <sgeo> shachaf.............
22:49:35 -!- sirdancealot7 has joined.
22:49:44 <shachaf> why are you following me on irc
22:49:58 <sgeo> I'm not.
22:50:04 <sgeo> It's a coincidence.
22:51:18 <sgeo> Found some channels you're not in
22:51:38 <shachaf> Yes, I purged my IRC client of a bunch of channels a while ago.
22:53:22 <FireFly> shachaf: eh, nice channel overlap
22:53:35 <shachaf> hi FireFly
22:53:38 * FireFly notices that this is the only channel they have in common with sgeo though
22:53:47 <FireFly> hi shachaf
22:54:13 <shachaf> What am I even doing in all those channels?
22:54:25 <FireFly> Idling+
22:54:32 <FireFly> s/\+$/?/
22:58:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
22:58:18 -!- Vorpal has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:00:25 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
23:00:32 <GreyKnight> http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Haskell
23:00:43 <GreyKnight> !
23:02:18 <Bike> that's a pretty shitty way to die
23:05:30 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:07:29 <Phantom_Hoover> As a black guy wearing a red shirt he should probably have avoided appearing onscreen like the plague.
23:07:57 <Bike> and he probably did! right up to that episode
23:08:19 <Jafet> Is this the guy in the memegif
23:08:31 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
23:13:03 <sgeo> `ls factor
23:13:05 <HackEgo> factor.image
23:13:09 <sgeo> ??
23:13:11 <sgeo> `ls
23:13:13 <HackEgo> bin \ canary \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ factor-linux-x86-64-0.95.tar.gz \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ ibins \ interps \ karma \ lib \ luabuild \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.rockspec \ luafilesystem-1.6.2-1.src.rock \ luarocks.err \ luarocks.out \ paste \ penlight-1.0.0-1.rockspec \ penlight-1.0.0-1.src.rock \ quotes \ share \ wisdom \ zalgo \
23:13:34 <Jafet> `ls zalgo
23:13:36 <HackEgo> zalgo
23:13:42 <Jafet> `run zalgo
23:13:42 <sgeo> `run ls factor
23:13:43 <HackEgo> bash: zalgo: command not found
23:13:43 <HackEgo> factor.image
23:13:53 <sgeo> `cat zalgo
23:13:53 <Phantom_Hoover> `ls zalgo
23:13:54 <HackEgo> ​ELF............>.....3@.....@....... .........@.8..@.(.%.......@.......@.@.....@.@........................................@......@............................................@.......@.....T
23:13:54 <HackEgo> zalgo
23:14:03 <sgeo> `run ./zalgo
23:14:17 <shachaf> `run echo hello there | ./zalgo
23:14:19 <HackEgo> h̊ë́l͒l͒o̞ ͖tͦh̻eͣr͕eͅ \ ̐
23:14:35 <HackEgo> No output.
23:14:36 <sgeo> Awesome
23:14:37 <shachaf> `run echo your time has come, FireFly | ./zalgo
23:14:39 <HackEgo> y̲o̢u̧r͕ ͈t̽i̮m͏e͕ ͦh̨a̷s͢ ͙c͙o̩m̷e͜,̬ ̠F̅i͡r̙e͠F̆l̎yͪ \ ͘
23:16:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:19:48 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
23:20:40 <sgeo> Ugh, looking on http://downloads.factorcode.org/images/
23:20:43 <sgeo> I don't see 0.95
23:20:52 <sgeo> And if I went for latest, I'd have to compile the VM
23:20:55 <sgeo> I think
23:22:13 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
23:22:27 <GreyKnight> `run echo "`welcome shachaf" | ./zalgo
23:22:29 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching ``' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
23:22:42 <GreyKnight> stupid shell backticks
23:22:55 <shachaf> `run welcome GreyKnight | ./zalgo
23:22:57 <HackEgo> Gͭr̔e̸yͭK̓n̏i͍g͑h̘tͨ:͎ ̃Wͣe͋l̏c̦o͌m̤e̦ ͬt́o͠ ̡tͤḧe̓ ̊i͎n̞t̺e̸r͏n̻a͟t̮i͚oͨnͤa̐l̽ ͖h̹u̝b͗ ̾fͦőr͂ ͝e̟s̻o͓ṫe͡r̨i͡c̐ ͇p͢r͞o͡ģr͔aͨm̸ṃi͚n̾g̐ ͤlͤaͮn͎g̓u͞a͝g̵è ͈d̵eͦs̩i̧g̈nͥ ̾ān̮d̓ ͗d͌e̴p̖lͯo͝y̚m͞e͗ṋt͖!ͯ ̽F̏õr̉ ͟m̭örͯe͈ ̭iͪn͒f́o͆r̎m
23:23:08 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:23:13 <GreyKnight> `run quote | ./zalgo
23:23:15 <HackEgo> 5̶8͞8ͅ)̐ ̇(͗Ōf̷ ̳Mͭiͬn̈e͇c̸r͒aͅf̀tͣ:̕)ͥ ͇<̣èl̥l̮i̅o͙ẗ́t͏>͢ ̥S͠o͒ ͭb̎a͂s̎iͦcͥăl̻l͍y̗ ̘I͎ ͭd̪i̓d̗n̷'̀ṯ ̃ưn͓d̑e͊r̵s̓t͒a̴nͨdͩ ̷w̬h̛a̴t͗ ͉i̫t͊ ̩w͛a̺s̱ ̝a͓tͥ ̨äl͖l̠,͉ ̬I̪ ͨtͯh͛óu̚g̓h̏tͅ ͍m̱a͔ýb̴e̒ ̔ŷo̵ư ̣w͂e̯r̴e͈ ͙m͊e͐än͋t̚ ̬tͅo
23:23:26 <shachaf> `quote 588
23:23:28 <HackEgo> 588) (Of Minecraft:) <elliott> So basically I didn't understand what it was at all, I thought maybe you were meant to be like a worm and just sort of wriggle about underground.
23:23:38 <shachaf> `run quote | ./zalgo
23:23:40 <HackEgo> 2ͦ1͝8̺)͖ ͤ<̱Ă.ͩ ͗Ǵeͬl͙m̷a̱n͗ ͘a̋n̉d̉ ̗G̉.͌ ̥R̖o͚m̡ér̓o̅>͖ ̍W͂eͩ ̻o͡r̂iͅg̣ȉn̬a̺l͉lͧy̆ ͕w͋rͮo͇t̖e̓ ͧt͉h͙ïṡ ̅a͞r̔t̷i̫c̳l̉e̙ ̝i̋n̫ ͪW̕o͈r̄d̥,̞ ̊b̻u̔t̏ ͠t̾h̙e̼nͧ ͐w̛e̟ ̊c͢oͧńv̪e͕r̲t̵e̿dͅ ͊i̙t͓ ̉ṱo͘ ͟L̺a̍t̔e̞x͞ ͣt͆o͡ ͡m̷a̢ḵê ͦi̼t
23:23:45 <shachaf> `run ls z*
23:23:47 <HackEgo> zalgo \ zalgo.hi \ zalgo.hs \ zalgo.o
23:23:54 <shachaf> `run mv zalgo bin/
23:23:58 <HackEgo> No output.
23:24:00 <shachaf> `run rm zalgo.hi zalgo.o
23:24:10 <HackEgo> No output.
23:24:35 <shachaf> `run ls bin | zalgo
23:24:37 <HackEgo> ​?̄ \ ͬ@̳ \ ̓W͚EͯL̾C̔O̲M̲E̱ \ ͇a̗dͩd̶q̈́uͬoͪt̹ě \ ͕a͑l̢lͅqͬu͒o̳ťe̷ṣ \ ͝ạnͮo͒n̬l͋o͈g͢ \ ͇c̳a̅l̷c̎ \ ̤d͈e͡f̯i̶n̊e̦ \ ͔d̺e͇l̃qͣŭo͟t̄eͤ \ ̓e͏t͖y̔m̎o̒l̻o̻g͓y̕ \ ̽fͬoͦȓgͧětͨ \ ͏f̞o͎řţu͢n̵eͫ \ ͅf̣r̾i͗n̺k̽ \ ̰f̰u̙c̟k͢ \ ́g͐oͤo͖g̾l͢e
23:24:53 <sgeo> `paste zalgo.hs
23:24:57 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16210
23:26:38 <shachaf> Hardly merits `paste
23:27:41 <kmc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ascii"
23:27:42 <kmc> :(
23:27:58 <shachaf> øh nø
23:27:59 <kmc> which chromium interprets as ISO-8859-1
23:28:13 <shachaf> kmc: Did you see the new lensish things?
23:28:20 <kmc> probably not
23:28:30 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/pr.hs
23:28:43 <shachaf> They're great.
23:28:46 <shachaf> So much symmetry, man.
23:29:51 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
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23:35:14 <GreyKnight> @tell zzo38 my "client" in the case of trying to access the root was just telnet. I also used some of my own code to directly send "\r\n" but got no response. I think it is YOUR code which is broken sir! :-)
23:35:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:36:38 -!- augur has joined.
23:38:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:39:56 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:43:34 -!- GreyKnight has joined.
23:43:37 <GreyKnight> ...maybe after I finish bouncing on and off the network
23:43:50 <GreyKnight> sgeo: is Factor an interesting language?
23:43:52 <GreyKnight> tell me something about it
23:45:11 <shachaf> Factor is basically the same thing as Clojure.
23:46:19 <GreyKnight> I don't speak Clojure either
23:46:40 <sgeo> GreyKnight, shachaf is not being serious
23:46:41 <GreyKnight> also, does shachaf know you're using his IRC nick, sgeo?!
23:47:03 <sgeo> GreyKnight, shachaf is like a high-level Forth
23:47:13 <sgeo> ...Factor is like a high-level Forth
23:47:35 <GreyKnight> `addquote <sgeo> GreyKnight, shachaf is like a high-level Forth
23:47:39 <HackEgo> 871) <sgeo> GreyKnight, shachaf is like a high-level Forth
23:47:49 <GreyKnight> I don't speak Forth either :-D
23:48:01 <GreyKnight> how would I hello world in Factor?
23:48:13 <sgeo> At the REPL or in a file?
23:48:22 <sgeo> "Hello, world!" print
23:49:04 <sgeo> To add two numbers:
23:49:06 <sgeo> 1 2 +
23:49:10 <GreyKnight> oh yes, you said something about it being stack-based
23:49:45 <sgeo> 5 0 > [ "5 > 0" print ] [ "!@#$" print ] if
23:51:31 <GreyKnight> at least we avoid messy usage of "then" and "else", okay :-)
23:52:13 <GreyKnight> seems similar to PostScript so far, maybe I can learn it
23:52:15 <GreyKnight> (well of course I *can* but you know what I mean)
23:54:19 <sgeo> PostScript is also stack-based
23:54:23 <sgeo> I think
23:54:36 -!- Bike has left.
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23:56:41 <greyooze> yep it is
23:56:41 <lambdabot> greyooze: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
23:56:43 -!- GreyKnight has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:57:11 <fizzie> It is, and you also push procedures on the stack for conditionals to operate on.
23:57:44 <greyooze> hm so do you mean that's NOT what the []s are doing above?
23:57:47 -!- greyooze has changed nick to GreyKnight.
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23:58:43 <fizzie> As far as I know, that is what the []s are doing; therefore, "also".
23:58:55 <fizzie> As in, as opposed to Forth, where you don't.
23:58:58 <sgeo> the [ ] are anonymous procedures (called quotations in Factor)
23:59:05 <kmc> good goatkcd today
23:59:17 <fizzie> PostScript types them with { } but otherwise it's very similar.
23:59:34 <GreyKnight> I think I am confused by your wording, fizzie
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