←2013-09-19 2013-09-20 2013-09-21→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:00:18 <Fiora> sorry, I meant the company ^^;
00:00:21 <Fiora> the one that makes the keyfobs and stuff
00:00:23 <Bike> Oh, a company. Founded by the people in RSA.
00:01:09 <Bike> "the deliberately crippled pseudo random number generator (PRNG), which is so weak that it undermines the security of most or all cryptography systems that use it" wow, things have escalated.
00:01:26 <kmc> you saw that NIST also disowned it, right?
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00:01:43 <Bike> yeah
00:01:46 <Bike> "McAfee representatives issued a statement that confirmed the McAfee Firewall Enterprise Control Center 5.3.1 supported the Dual_EC_DRBG, but only when deployed in federal government or government contractor customer environments, where this FIPS certification has recommended it" bahahaha
00:01:53 <Fiora> xD
00:01:58 <Bike> good job nsa, you got YOUR OWN FUCKING GOVERNMENT to use your FUCKING BROKEN hack
00:02:01 <Bike> thanks douchebags
00:02:08 <Fiora> maybe the NSA wanted to spy on other parts of the government?
00:02:11 <kmc> http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/the-many-flaws-of-dualecdrbg.html is a really great detailed writeup
00:02:13 <Fiora> I mean, like, that's a thing spy agencies do, right
00:02:21 <Fiora> they spy on each other
00:02:25 <Fiora> like this big incestuous family thing
00:02:29 <Bike> yes but they're
00:02:30 <kmc> yeah intelligence agencies tend to become autonomous terrorist cells rather than anything that's accountable to either government or citizens
00:02:33 <Bike> supposed to spy on other ones!
00:02:37 <Bike> but... yeah what kmc said.
00:03:02 <Bike> but i mean even disregarding that, crippling government security is kind of the opposite of even the nsa's supposed mission to do literally the exact opposite of that.
00:03:09 <Phantom_Hoover> the stratfor handbook has an entry on the nsa
00:03:19 <Bike> oh yeah? what's it say
00:03:36 <Phantom_Hoover> "they're completely out of control, and so compartmentalised that nobody actually knows what anyone else is doing"
00:03:44 <kmc> welp
00:04:04 <kmc> at least they are just breaking crypto and not kidnapping people to give them LSD just to see what happens
00:04:17 <Bike> "The length of time that Dual_EC_DRBG takes can be seen as a virtue: it also slows down an attacker trying to guess the seed" lol
00:04:44 <elliott> Bike: it only compromises the government's security if you're the NSA though? at least in theory
00:05:03 <elliott> so for the NSA it's just plain a good thing if they get anyone at all to use it ever
00:05:03 <Bike> yes, a very stupid theory that goes against every cryptographic practice.
00:05:10 <Bike> which, i mean, is what they were thinking, i'm sure.
00:05:23 <Bike> er. what i'm saying is they're incompetent.
00:05:42 <elliott> I think they're actually turning out to be kind of disturbingly competent
00:06:09 <Phantom_Hoover> eh, doesn't really matter if your compromised rng is obviously shitty if you can pressure people who don't understand that into using it
00:06:21 <Bike> It's like the CIA. They're disturbingly competent at some things (e.g. kidnapping) and worse at others (e.g. not making half the world hate the united states)
00:06:51 <Bike> Anyway. Anyone here used davfs2?
00:06:53 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: well, the thing is that even the NSA probably doesn't want the rest of the world to be able to break the US government's encryption. just them.
00:07:19 <Phantom_Hoover> that is a point
00:08:02 <pikhq> Indeed, half the mission of the NSA is making it so that US communications can't be cracked.
00:08:04 <Bike> I mean intelligence agencies seem to have this thing where they're pretty great at the microscale of their job but then use it to just fuck everything over constantly.
00:08:35 <Bike> Like, the CIA ran the opium trade in the Pacific for a while. I'm sure they did it very well! But the problem with that is that they ran an opium trade
00:08:50 <pikhq> Turns out that a lack of oversight is bad.
00:08:56 <Bike> Sorry, this just really, really irritates me.
00:09:13 <elliott> I think the CIA just likes having fun.
00:09:31 <pikhq> elliott: And money.
00:09:36 <elliott> like, hey we should go install a new government in some random country today! hey we should try out this whole drug trade thing! life's an adventure!
00:09:39 <pikhq> Opium trading is a great source of income.
00:09:47 <kmc> worked for the british
00:11:06 <Phantom_Hoover> just cause 2 is actually a documentary
00:11:12 <Bike> laughing @ idea of cheery cia agent saying "life's an adventure!" to a bunch of filipino muslims he's torturing
00:21:52 <elliott> that's the vibe I'm going for, yeah
00:24:33 <Bike> i've heard a story that the cia faked a vampire attack in mindanao once, so, that works
00:26:31 <kmc> black comedy set in the CIA in the 60s
00:26:32 <kmc> do it
00:26:53 <Fiora> that sounds like it would come out a lot like Dr. Strangelove
00:27:06 <kmc> maybe
00:30:10 <elliott> I think I've gone like seven years wanting to see Dr. Strangelove without actually doing it. I'm great. I'm the best
00:33:07 <kmc> do it
00:33:38 <mnoqy> do it
00:34:13 <elliott> thanks, I never thought of that before
00:35:08 <Bike> davfs2 is great
00:35:21 <Bike> ls tells me what are the files are but then because of the fucked configuration i can't access them
00:35:39 <Bike> and so cp, which just uses usual cp instead of dav's copy, can't do shit even though i can over dav
00:36:54 <Bike> (it will probably actually be great once the IT nerds unfuck themselves)
00:40:44 <kmc> nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrds
00:47:03 <zzo38> In Dungeons&Dragons game, I sometimes teleport without knowing where I am going, and ending up frightening the people who are in there, if any. (In ifMUD, I have set a olounge teleport message to "suddenly appears in the middle of the room in an instant, frightening (or almost frightening) a few people..." partially for that reason.)
00:47:35 <zzo38> Do you like this kind of messages?
00:49:57 <Phantom_Hoover> http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/020312/nsa-620x317-620x317.jpg?hash=MGx2L2ZlZT&upscale=1
00:50:01 <Phantom_Hoover> so much car park...
00:51:20 <Phantom_Hoover> <Fiora> that sounds like it would come out a lot like Dr. Strangelove
00:51:43 <Phantom_Hoover> idk, sounds more like 4 lions or the coen brothers
00:53:22 <zzo38> If you play the Dungeons&Dragons game, say, do you do things like this too?
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06:03:57 <Sgeo> `slist
06:04:00 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
06:25:10 <fizzie> "I have had an opportunity to read your article [REDACTED] on [REDACTED]. Through your works, I know you are an expert in this field." Yeah, I'm sure you've read it and are not just automatically spamming all authors for articles for your journal named almost exactly like a well-known existing journal.
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06:27:31 <Bike> Don't you want to write for Naturer?
06:28:00 <zzo38> Please look at CGA Collection this time
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09:00:56 <Taneb> Wish me out-of-context luck!
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09:04:13 <fizzie> Good oocluck, then.
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11:30:22 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/gDce nice memory use numbers in 'top' here.
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11:50:00 <Taneb> kmc, should I learn Rust?
11:50:57 <ais523> Taneb: I'm not kmc, but I think you should learn Rust
11:54:31 <Taneb> ais523, should I learn Rust over learning, say C++?
11:55:12 <ais523> Taneb: C++ is as of 2013 more practically useful; I'm hoping Rust overtakes it, although sadly it probably won't
11:55:17 <ais523> Rust is a much better language, though, IMO
11:55:24 <ais523> unless you like sheer eso craziness
11:55:29 <ais523> then C++ is pretty good
11:55:59 <ais523> fun fact: I added a couple of small C++ files to a mostly-C project recently, because I needed to create a file that could produce side effects upon being linked into a project
11:56:06 <ais523> without causing it to fail to compile if it wasn't
11:56:17 <ais523> that can't be done in portable C, but it can be done in portable C++
11:56:25 <ais523> and in fact a bunch of systems have complex linker support just to get that to work
11:57:46 <Taneb> ais523, that seems...
11:57:49 <Taneb> a weird thing to do
11:58:20 <ais523> Taneb: well you know how the Linux kernel has modules that can be compiled in and can also be dynamically loaded, depending on configuration?
11:58:24 <Taneb> No
11:58:36 <ais523> I was going for something like that, except that the core file would know which files were compiled in without anyone having to tell it
11:58:53 <ais523> thus it would know whether it needed to try to dynamically load them or not if someone requested them
11:58:54 <Taneb> I don't know that much about the linux kernel
11:59:24 <ais523> hmm
11:59:35 <Taneb> (should probably learn at some point)
11:59:38 <ais523> you don't need to know anything about internals to know that, just to have configured it at least once
11:59:46 <ais523> but I guess people don't configure the kernel very often
12:01:43 <Taneb> I'm going to get some lunch now
12:12:05 <Roujo> ais523: What's the point of configuring the kernel? When do you need to do it?
12:12:23 <ais523> Roujo: when you're compiling it in anything other than a stock configuration
12:12:38 <Roujo> Why would you want to do that?
12:12:39 <ais523> in my case, it was for an embedded system
12:12:44 <Roujo> Ah, okay
12:12:54 <ais523> needed to turn off as many features as we could get away with to save disk space
12:13:20 <ais523> also the sysadmins here had to reconfigure the kernel of a VM for me so that a program I wrote that required specific kernel support would run
12:13:34 <ais523> (one of the flags to prctl)
12:13:38 <Roujo> Yeah, I guess I just never used anything specific enough to have to do that =)
12:14:50 <ais523> well it was on by default in the kernel my laptop uses
12:14:59 <ais523> but apparently not in the configuration used by the desktops and servers here
12:15:09 <oerjan> you should always configure your kernel unusually to keep the NSA off balance. also, have this nice tin(*) hat. (*) _genuine_ tin, not that aluminium thing that _strengthens_ the mind control rays instead.
12:16:16 <Roujo> I just use lead instead
12:16:24 <ais523> oerjan: there was that huge row from people who didn't understand the way the Linux kernel implemented randomness
12:16:37 <ais523> telling it to stop XORing rdrand() results with its true-random numbers to make them randomer
12:16:45 <oerjan> Roujo: that only helps against the cancer-producing rays.
12:16:55 <Roujo> oerjan: You haven't met my mother
12:17:11 <oerjan> that may be true.
12:18:08 <oerjan> ais523: i think i saw a post where linus insulted them recently.
12:18:20 <ais523> yes
12:18:35 <ais523> well, it wasn't so much typical linus insults
12:18:43 <oerjan> much too mild.
12:18:47 <ais523> as "go read the kernel source, then tell me if your request makes any sense"
12:20:37 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/FjXH <- this software does not fill me with confidence.
12:21:24 <ais523> all those warnings are the same thing, though
12:21:41 <ais523> assuming 64 bit, it'll work fine if they're storing integers in pointers
12:21:43 <Roujo> Sounds nice. Pointers as ints are always nice.
12:21:48 <ais523> but not if they're storing pointers in integers
12:21:53 <ais523> and both situations would cause that warning
12:22:13 <Roujo> Wait, casting an int as a pointer causes the "pointer-to-int" warning?
12:22:29 <Roujo> That doesn't sound intuitive
12:22:45 <oerjan> mind you, if you've just read about how applying the NSA PRNG to "improve" true random output ruins it, you'd be naturally suspicious of other ways of "improving" random numbers, too.
12:22:46 <fizzie> You need to convert both ways in both scenarios, generally.
12:23:06 <fizzie> For the most part those warnings are of the if (debug) printf ("...@%x...", (int)thisisapointer); variety, which is clearly wrong but does not really matter.
12:24:08 <fizzie> Also there is one case of if (unsignedcharvalue = (unsigned char)NULL) (except obscured by typedefs) which is also completely wrong if NULL is defined as "(void *)0", but does not matter either.
12:24:54 <fizzie> Yes, all the others than that one seem to be debug printouts.
12:25:01 <fizzie> (Whoever wrote this clearly has not heard of %p.)
12:25:35 <ais523> I remember a style guide somewhere saying not to use %p ever
12:25:37 <ais523> but I can't remember why
12:26:07 <oerjan> fizzie: wait, (unsigned char)NULL, not (unsigned char *)NULL ?
12:26:20 <fizzie> oerjan: Yes, well, the other side is an unsigned char (not a pointer to it) too.
12:26:33 <fizzie> It's looking for the terminating '\0' of a string, as far as I can tell.
12:26:45 <ais523> now I'm wondering, is it ever possible for (unsigned char)NULL to not be 0?
12:26:48 <fizzie> Yes.
12:26:59 <ais523> my guess is yes, but zero constants work weirdly when it comes to pointers
12:27:09 <ais523> e.g. (void*)(float)0 is always NULL
12:27:21 <ais523> err, (void*)(int)(float)0
12:27:40 <oerjan> argh
12:28:08 <oerjan> are you _sure_ of that.
12:28:15 <fizzie> ais523: I don't think that's true.
12:28:28 <fizzie> ais523: It is true that (void*)(int)0.0f is always NULL, however.
12:28:41 <oerjan> AAAAAAAAAAAAA
12:28:56 <Gregor> Related: http://ewontfix.com/11/
12:29:03 <ais523> fizzie: I can't remember the exact rules, but they're stupid
12:29:15 <ais523> what about (void*)(NULL - NULL)?
12:29:48 <fizzie> ais523: "Integer constant expressions" are allowed to include "floating constants that are the immediate operands of casts", but any cast operators "shall only convert arithmetic types to integer types", which would outlaw the (float) cast.
12:30:09 <fizzie> (And of course a null pointer expression needs an integer constant expression with a value of 0.)
12:30:16 <ais523> haha, ridiculous :)
12:30:45 <fizzie> I don't think (void *)(NULL - NULL) is always correct, if the definition of NULL includes the (legal) cast to (void *).
12:31:34 <oerjan> hm is pointer subtraction defined if the pointers are NULL
12:31:36 <Taneb> ais523, rust is still making
12:31:53 <ais523> oerjan: I was wondering that myself
12:32:00 <ais523> it's obviously undefined if exactly one is NULL
12:32:13 <oerjan> they're not pointing to the same array, because there is no array.
12:32:20 <ais523> but both being NULL is the sort of situation you don't lean the rules for because it's stupid to do it
12:32:40 <ais523> they're both pointing one past the end of (void[0])NULL :P
12:33:05 <fizzie> There is no [0].
12:33:20 <fizzie> "Both shall point to elements of the same array object" is all it says.
12:33:27 <fizzie> I'm guessing it's not right.
12:33:53 <fizzie> *Anyway*, regarding the original topic, I don't think "(int)(void *)0" has any particular guarantees that would require it to be 0.
12:34:00 <ais523> so if I have a pointer to something that isn't an array
12:34:04 <ais523> I can't subtract that pointer from itself?
12:34:36 <Taneb> I think it's bootstrapping now
12:34:40 <Taneb> I am scared
12:34:52 <fizzie> How would you have a valid pointer to something that isn't an array? (There's a rule that says approximately that everything can be treated as one-element arrays.)
12:34:52 <ais523> (this could easily be achieved via, say, taking the address of a stack element)
12:35:03 <ais523> fizzie: hmm, right
12:37:22 <fizzie> "For the purposes of these operators, a pointer to an object that is not an element of an array behaves the same as a pointer to the first element of an array of length one with the type of the object as its element type."
12:37:30 <fizzie> "These operators" being + and -.
12:38:43 <ais523> whereas NULL doesn't count because it doesn't necessarily point to anything?
12:38:54 <fizzie> It explicitly does not point to any object, I think.
12:40:18 <ais523> well it's possible for it to point to something
12:40:30 <Roujo> Is it defined somewhere? I keep getting errors saying that NULL doesn't exist >_>
12:40:52 <ais523> is there anything in the standard to prevent NULL being somewhere on the stack? (it can't be on the heap, unless it's in the middle of an object, because free ignores it)
12:40:57 <ais523> Roujo: stdlib.h
12:41:03 <fizzie> Roujo: It's defined in many headers, but <stddef.h> is the standard location.
12:41:13 <fizzie> <stdlib.h>, <stdio.h> and others define it too.
12:41:31 <Taneb> I can't quite parse "While using rustc directly to generate your executables, and then running them manually is a perfectly valid way to test your code, for smaller projects, prototypes, or if you're a beginner, it might be more convenient to use the rust tool."
12:41:38 <oerjan> <stdstdloc.h>
12:42:09 <Taneb> Is it saying that compiling then running is better if I'm a beginner, or is it saying that using the rust tool is better if I'm a beginner?
12:42:23 <fizzie> ais523: Anyhow, a null pointer is "guaranteed to compare unequal to a pointer to any object or function", which would be a contradiction if it actually pointed to an object, because it would then compare equal to any pointer to that object.
12:42:39 <ais523> right
12:43:06 <fizzie> And you can have a "char *" at any individual byte of an object, so I think you can't even hide it in the middle of an object.
12:43:07 <ais523> Taneb: it's saying that if you're starting out, rust is probably easier to use, but rustc is perfectly acceptable
12:43:17 <Taneb> Thanks
12:43:21 <ais523> what if it points halfway through a byte?
12:43:31 <Roujo> ais523: fizzie: Thanks, that explains it =P
12:43:40 <ais523> (I think this is actually legal in C, although not massively useful)
12:43:42 <Roujo> Any reason why it's not a keyword? =P
12:44:09 <ais523> 0 is a keyword :-P
12:44:35 <fizzie> Not technically, I don't think. (Keywords are identifiers.)
12:44:44 <ais523> I know
12:44:45 <fizzie> C++11 has a 'nullptr' keyword for a null pointer, I think.
12:44:46 <ais523> but close enough
12:44:54 <ais523> fizzie: I was thinking about that
12:44:59 <ais523> but I'm not sure if it's a keyword or just a templtae
12:45:01 <ais523> *template
12:45:40 <fizzie> I don't think I want to get the C++11 specification to find out, but I think it's a keyword.
12:45:48 <fizzie> 'true' and 'false' are keywords there too.
12:46:34 <ais523> I hope they were defined as 0 and 1 respectively, just to annoy people
12:46:43 <ais523> although they probably weren't
12:47:44 <fizzie> <stdbool.h> defines three macros: true, false, and file_no.. I mean, __bool_true_and_false_are_defined.
12:48:07 <fizzie> Oh, and "bool" as a macro that expands to "_Bool", forgot that.
12:48:42 <ais523> btw, something that came up in discussion with the people here this morning: strictly typed LaTeX
12:48:54 <ais523> basically the idea is that it typechecks your math in order to catch typos
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12:55:29 <oerjan> fizzie: isn't __bool_true_and_false_are_defined sort of redundant with true :P
12:55:51 <oerjan> i guess it never hurts to be explicit.
12:56:49 <oerjan> ais523: good luck with typechecking _real_ math.
12:57:17 <ais523> oerjan: it'd work on category theory
12:57:48 <oerjan> real math makes C++ overloading look sane, you know.
12:58:24 <fizzie> oerjan: I guess you can use it to check whether they're defined in the standard way, rather than in some custom way.
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13:11:32 <Roujo> Ohayoily
13:12:06 <boily> Roujohayō.
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13:19:45 <Taneb> I can't get rust-mode working in emacs...
13:20:18 <Roujo> Have you tried adding a mist of water and letting it sit there for a couple of years?
13:20:35 <boily> Taneb: did you turn it off and on again?
13:22:14 <ion> Is the cable connected?
13:24:13 <oerjan> did you try pushing Ctrl-Apple-Escape-Meta-Alt-Start-Alt Gr-R ?
13:29:16 <boily> oerjan: you forgot Hyper.
13:29:22 <oerjan> oh.
13:31:43 <boily> otherwise, all that'll do will bring up the Tetris-Mayan-Calendar-Half-Debug-Mode, but only if he has the scratchpad open.
13:33:41 <oerjan> i did not know the mayans had a tetris calendar.
13:33:53 <oerjan> clever guys
13:36:31 * oerjan suddenly wonders if anyone has tried to adapt a piano keyboard for non-music use
13:37:10 <Roujo> Well
13:37:11 <Roujo> Well
13:37:15 <Roujo> I tried. Once.
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13:37:31 <oerjan> ooh http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5928061/using-a-piano-keyboard-as-a-computer-keyboard
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13:38:15 <Gregor> Using a piano keyboard as a computer keyboard sounds like a profoundly bad idea.
13:38:25 <Gregor> Using something similar to a computer keyboard as a piano keyboard is less ridiculous.
13:38:29 <Roujo> I used a DDR pad to play Goldeneye
13:38:32 <Gregor> (But with velocity sensitivity)
13:38:32 <Roujo> So yeah
13:38:41 <Roujo> There really is no limit
13:38:54 <boily> I need to find a nice small electric piano.
13:39:24 <Roujo> I have a wind "piano"
13:39:39 <Roujo> More like an organ, probably
13:39:45 <Roujo> But without the pipes
13:39:58 <Gregor> Um... are you referring to a melodica?
13:40:19 <Roujo> Nope
13:40:30 <Roujo> It was electric
13:41:42 <fizzie> Creative sells a computer keyboard where the integrated wrist rest contains a small piano keyboard.
13:41:51 <fizzie> Normally there's a cover on top of it when typing.
13:42:27 <fizzie> http://ask.creative.com/wwimages/general/product_guides/prodikeys_dm.jpg <- this thing.
13:42:27 <Gregor> I've found mini-keyboards to be surprisingly useless for digital composing.
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13:59:19 <coppro> Gregor: why?
14:01:10 <oerjan> surprisingly, Gregor isn't a midget.
14:01:23 <boily> sometimes, when editing the quotes for too long, you realise your brain's been blocking dangerous replies in the background, preserving your sanity.
14:01:38 <boily> Bike: why. oh why did you link to shapeshifting cuttlefish erotica.
14:02:04 <Bike> i was asked~
14:02:17 <Roujo> What the hell?
14:02:24 <oerjan> answers that, then.
14:03:02 <Gregor> coppro: A mix of things... velocity sensitivity is not useful, so their primary "advantage" isn't one, and you need to go trawling between octaves all the time because their range is so small. Add on the fact that your hands will surely be near the computer keyboard to do other things, and I never found myself using it.
14:04:21 <fizzie> Perhaps you could have a physically scrollable mini-keyboard that you could drag left and right to access further octaves.
14:04:30 <fizzie> (With some sort of a folding mechanism.)
14:05:39 <Gregor> It was just a button press to get to other octaves.
14:05:56 <Gregor> Much less time investment than a retarded let's-suck-Apple's-cock drag maneuver.
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14:18:04 <boily> `quote django
14:18:09 <HackEgo> 265) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 310) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 311) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named a
14:18:27 <boily> okay, so the olsner-giraffe is part of the quote. no line break, then.
14:19:29 <Roujo> Wait, so... I should probably quote you `quoting to keep the trend, is that it?
14:19:52 <Taneb> Roujo, only if olsner comments
14:20:00 <boily> Roujo: you'd be piling up on the olsner-cpressey-mnoqy combo.
14:20:37 <boily> Roujo: and think before you say something djanguesque. the consequences will never be the same.
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14:21:21 <Taneb> 8 days...
14:21:29 <Taneb> 8 days until I'm in a far of land
14:21:33 <Taneb> Well
14:21:35 <Taneb> Not that far off
14:21:49 <Taneb> Like, less than 100 miles away
14:22:01 <boily> ~eval 100 * 1.609
14:22:02 <metasepia> 160.9
14:22:19 <boily> uhm. yeah. multiplication by one hundred. you guys didn't see nothing at all.
14:22:50 <Roujo> ~eval 百 * 二十から五
14:22:51 <metasepia> Error (1): Not in scope: `百'Not in scope: `二十から五'
14:22:54 <Roujo> Pff
14:23:44 <boily> Roujo: eille :p
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14:28:19 <Roujo> boily: 'faudrait que tu japonise ton cuttlefish
14:29:02 <boily> Roujo: file in an issue on github! :)
14:29:18 <boily> ~duck pectopah
14:29:18 <metasepia> --- No relevant information
14:29:41 <Roujo> There's a congregation point for stupid cuttlefish?
14:31:12 <Roujo> Oh right, there
14:31:13 <Roujo> is*
14:31:15 <boily> https://github.com/pfcuttle/metasepia ← ISSUES! FILE THEM! ☺
14:31:33 <Roujo> You put that on Github, but the repo is not quite useful =P
14:31:36 <Roujo> 2 Commits:
14:31:42 <Roujo> "Initial" and "Initial Commit"
14:31:55 <Roujo> Source code? Not much, just an "Hello World"
14:32:40 <boily> I know. haven't had time to port the whole stuff to GHC 7.6.
14:32:50 <boily> like, all that error upheaval and stuff.
14:32:53 <boily> like.
14:33:23 <Roujo> It's easy
14:33:24 <Roujo> git add *
14:33:26 <Roujo> git commit
14:33:30 <Roujo> git push origin master
14:33:32 <Roujo> THERE YOU GO
14:33:58 <boily> nah. not going to make public the old version.
14:34:22 <Roujo> Oh. I see
14:35:20 <boily> well. some people in the chännel saw some parts. they can witness that it really shouldn't be made public :p
14:35:38 <boily> (aaaaurgh. that missed occasion in Duck.hs where I could have used Alternative... it still burns...)
14:36:18 <boily> Gregor: you seem to have a Deep and Old hatred of Apple Products.
14:36:47 <Gregor> That's because their products are awful, the company is awful, and everything they stand for is awful.
14:38:15 <Roujo> >okay
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14:53:38 <Roujo> boily: I put an issue on Github
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14:55:28 <AnotherTest> Hello
14:55:55 <Roujo> おはよう!
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15:04:26 <boily> I... I agree with one of kmc's quotes. I feel very strange.
15:05:23 -!- yorick has joined.
15:05:28 <Roujo> Which one would that be?
15:05:56 <boily> `quote colemak
15:05:58 <HackEgo> 818) <kmc> colemak is for people who think dvorak is too mainstream
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15:06:12 <Roujo> Sure
15:06:23 <Roujo> Also, un clavier AZERTY en vaut deux
15:06:25 <Roujo> So there
15:06:49 * boily bops Roujo with a Model M keyboard
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15:38:59 <zzo38> Now I found the esolang Urn. I like this too.
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16:08:09 <zzo38> I added some things in list of ideas
16:08:22 <zzo38> Funge like where the acceleration changes rather than the direction (although you can change the acceleration in any directions).
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16:25:16 <Taneb> That's a pretty good idea
16:25:49 <Taneb> Perhaps ^ < v > apply a force
16:25:54 <Taneb> And you can change the pointer's mass
16:32:25 <AnotherTest> and when you go too fast special relativity drops in?
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17:28:35 <boily> back from lunch, and the funge is accelerated.
17:28:57 <boily> I tried a bún riêu today. it smells bad, but it tastes good ^^
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18:05:30 <boily> new gaming categories are ridiculous. roguelikes are too mainstream, so now there are roguelikelikes.
18:06:03 <Roujo> Ha
18:06:04 <Bike> "action-adventure" of course was always a sensible categorization
18:06:43 <Phantom_Hoover> i still don't really understand why action-adventure is different from rpg
18:07:09 <Gregor> Where are my adventure point-and-clicks :(
18:07:29 <Bike> my earliest memory of gaming genres is asking what "RP" meant in an ESRB rating and being told it stood for Role Playing Game, because in Starfox Adventures you played the role of Fox.
18:07:39 <Bike> it's pretty much been downhill from there
18:07:44 <Roujo> Holy...
18:07:46 <boily> Phantom_Hoover: in action-adventure, you get action and adventure. in rpg you get scantily clad effeminate male protagonists.
18:08:10 <Phantom_Hoover> well that's the crux really, rpg is hilariously broad
18:08:31 <Roujo> Borderland is an action-adventure FPSRPG
18:08:38 <Roujo> *Fun*
18:08:42 <Roujo> Borderlands*
18:09:24 <Phantom_Hoover> like it includes, as a genre, games where the player character is a fixed character independent of player input; and games where the PC has no characterisation whatsoever beyond that imposed on them
18:10:33 <boily> I'd like to see one day a cross between Call of Duty and Katamari.
18:11:11 <Gregor> It's almost, ALMOST as if humans have a natural tendency to categorize.
18:11:13 <Gregor> What a tragedy.
18:11:40 <Bike> it's definitely tragic when human function doesn't match our idea of human function.
18:11:46 <Bike> human function is an asshole.
18:11:49 <Bike> fact
18:12:08 <boily> Gregor: playing with the quotes, I came to create ad hoc categories: people obsessed with sex, and insane people.
18:12:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, yes but when you name the category after something that varies wildly within that category...
18:12:44 <Roujo> "People"
18:13:29 <Roujo> boily: Also, those two aren't mutually exclusive
18:14:07 <Bike> http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/ this seems very zzo38
18:15:17 <boily> Roujo: yes.
18:15:39 <boily> Bike: how do you measure zzoness?
18:15:41 <Roujo> boily: はい
18:16:14 <Bike> boily: a special MSX Computer program i have
18:16:56 <Bike> "A man who fucks bicycles is on the loose in Sweden."
18:16:57 <boily> Bike: plausible.
18:17:07 <boily> what?
18:18:07 <Roujo> boily: 何
18:20:28 <boily> Roujo: 海老。
18:20:38 <Roujo> boily: 何
18:20:54 <Roujo> "shrimp"
18:20:56 <Roujo> >okay
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18:38:55 <boily> @tell Patashu congratulations! you are another member of the Great People Revolutionary Association of People Who Were There, But Are Not
18:38:55 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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18:43:42 <boily> ~duck bonkers
18:43:42 <metasepia> bonkers definition: crazy, mad.
18:44:34 <boily> @tell oerjan lutefisk. in a microwave. you are mad.
18:44:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:44:58 <Roujo> @tell oerjan boily: Well yeah. We know that by now.
18:44:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:46:07 <boily> Roujo: oerjan is a fine example of the insane people category.
18:46:16 <Roujo> Cool, cool
18:46:23 <Roujo> Where do I fit in?
18:47:28 <boily> eeeeeh... the Canadian category?
18:49:58 <Roujo> Woot woot
18:50:21 <Roujo> "The Canadian, the Sexually Obsessed and the Bat-Shit Cray Cray"
19:00:32 <boily> `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:00:37 <HackEgo> 1107) \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:00:47 <elliott> ...
19:00:49 <boily> :D
19:00:55 <elliott> `revert
19:00:58 <HackEgo> Done.
19:01:01 <boily> ok, ok...
19:04:31 <Roujo> Admin abuse!
19:04:34 <Roujo> Admin abuuuuuse!
19:04:34 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
19:06:10 <boily> Roujo: yes, but that's besides the point. he's elliott.
19:07:34 <boily> (that was my feeble attempt at appeasing the authorities, and trying to distract them long enough to slip in another `addquote)
19:08:58 -!- Bike has joined.
19:10:15 <elliott> nobody actually said that quote.
19:11:19 <boily> right. my next attempt will be subtler, and within the rules.
19:11:35 <Roujo> <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:11:37 <Roujo> There you go
19:12:24 <boily> Roujo: there's still the slight detail that neither you nor I can `addquote it, cause it'll be in poor taste.
19:12:54 <Roujo> ~echo `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:12:55 <metasepia> `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:12:58 <HackEgo> 1107) \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:13:06 <Roujo> Your point being?
19:13:23 <elliott> `revert
19:13:26 <HackEgo> Done.
19:13:26 <Roujo> Gah
19:13:29 <Roujo> =P
19:13:55 <Roujo> ~echo `addquote <metasepia> `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:13:55 <metasepia> `addquote <metasepia> `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:14:00 <HackEgo> 1107) <metasepia> `addquote \item <elliott\_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django \\ <olsner> elliott\_: another quote? you're not helping \texttt{:/} ← and three giraffes.
19:14:00 <Roujo> That's a quote, right?
19:14:08 <Bike> stop.
19:14:18 <Roujo> Alright, alright...
19:15:09 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
19:15:13 -!- elliott has kicked HackEgo HackEgo.
19:15:15 -!- elliott has kicked metasepia metasepia.
19:15:17 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -v Roujo.
19:15:18 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
19:15:19 -!- elliott has left.
19:15:40 <Roujo> FATALITY
19:15:51 <Roujo> Oh wait. I can't talk anymore.
19:16:48 <Taneb> Roujo, do you feel like that fishy lass in the book about the chap
19:17:13 <Roujo> Do tell
19:17:20 <Taneb> The Little Mermaid
19:17:36 <Roujo> Fun fact: My SO is called Arielle
19:17:56 <Roujo> Also, no, I don't believe I do
19:18:00 <Roujo> How *did* she feel
19:19:15 -!- elliott has joined.
19:19:28 <Roujo> 'morning, elliott
19:19:33 <Roujo> Sorry for the botspam =/
19:21:36 <Roujo> Or would that be "about the botspam"?
19:21:37 <elliott> well, I'm hardly innocent of botspam myself in my wild and reckless youth :P
19:22:17 <Roujo> Well yeah =P
19:22:24 <boily> I'm not young. Roujo is.
19:22:27 <Bike> aren't you like twelve
19:22:37 <Roujo> I'm more concerned about the ping that came with it =P
19:22:44 <Roujo> boily is twenty
19:22:49 <Roujo> It rhymes, so it's true
19:23:23 <Taneb> How the hell does boily rhyme with twenty
19:23:35 <Taneb> bwenty rhymes with twenty
19:23:41 <Roujo> boily does as well
19:23:43 <Taneb> boily rhymes with oily!
19:23:49 <Roujo> Pfff
19:23:58 <Roujo> First-degree rhymes have feelings!
19:24:04 <boily> Taneb: /bwali/.
19:24:14 <Roujo> So it's a poor rhyme. Sue me.
19:24:17 <Roujo> (Please don't)
19:24:21 <Taneb> boily, that still doesn't rhyme with twenty!
19:24:51 <Taneb> It almost rhymes with "call me"
19:24:59 <Roujo> call me, boily
19:25:25 <Roujo> (´・ω・`)
19:25:44 <Bike> oh god no
19:25:51 <boily> oh the fungot.
19:25:52 <fungot> boily: but, we are far outnumbered!... ...oh well! come again! these are my friends! this is the masamune!
19:26:07 -!- mnoqy has joined.
19:26:36 * boily hides behind mnoqy “You won't get me alive!”
19:26:58 <mnoqy> hi
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19:27:42 <boily> mnoqy: hi. don't worry, nothing bad will happen to you.
19:30:02 <nooodl> is it REALLY /bwali/
19:30:24 <nooodl> i remember thinking it was /bwali/ but it was /bojli/ (screw proper transcription)
19:31:02 <boily> nooodl: it really is /bwali/. <oi> transcribes /wa/.
19:33:41 <nooodl> boily: c'est domamge. la façon anglaise à l'air plus mignonne. "boï-lie!"
19:34:59 <boily> nooodl: j'aime aussi, vu que ça sonne comme «bouillant», mais j'ai comme un certain attachement sentimental à mon nom de famille :p
19:36:34 <nooodl> change de nom de famille EQÇA
19:36:57 <boily> nooodl: EQÇA?
19:37:13 <nooodl> "espère que ça aide" EQÇA
19:37:28 <boily> Ō_Ō. je l'avais vraiment pas vue venir celle-là...
19:45:28 <Fiora> http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/we-dont-enable-backdoors-in-our-crypto-products-rsa-tells-customers/ wow these are like the worst denials
19:46:57 <elliott> "under no circumstances does RSA design or enable any backdoors in our products"
19:47:01 <Bike> did you miss the earlier explanation that being slow is actually an advantage since it's harder to bruteforce keys
19:47:04 <elliott> "the NSA designs them for us!"
19:47:07 <Bike> choice shit, imo
19:50:40 <Bike> i wrote a little tumblr post about how everything is more likely to be intranecine incompetence than a conspiracy. i feel like i wear a next-level tinfoil hat
19:51:50 <Fiora> is there some word, for like, a "conspiracy" that isn't really a conspiracy, like, it doesn't involve a lot of people?
19:52:01 <Gregor> Bike: Never blame on malice what that which can be attributed to stupidity.
19:52:06 <Fiora> like the NSA can have a "conspiracy" to get RSA keys from lots of companies, but all it takes is one person sending out national security letters
19:52:13 <Fiora> that's not really a big conspiracy
19:52:21 <Bike> conspiracy = shared breath. spiracy = breath. so, spiracy
19:52:26 <Fiora> xD
19:52:30 <Bike> just one person breathing
19:53:05 <Bike> also that's usually just called "abuse" or sometimes "corruption"
19:53:14 <Bike> "a power-mad shitbag"
19:53:20 <Bike> i dunno the latin for shitbag sorry
19:53:33 <Fiora> xD
19:54:02 <Bike> "shit rock" is the closest i got.
19:54:25 <Fiora> excrementum saccus?
19:54:30 <Bike> coprolite
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19:54:37 <Bike> (a kind of fossil)
19:54:58 <Bike> oh, i guess that's greek
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20:06:49 <boily> finally found why the phở was correctly typeset. it was because of \usepackage{txfonts}, which overrode \usepackage[sc]{mathpazo}.
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20:28:29 <oerjan> boily: i'm sorry, you clearly have misread the quote, it was precisely about how i refrained from lutefisk because it _cannot_ be microwaved
20:29:10 <oerjan> no contest on the madness part though.
20:29:46 <kmc> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/he-doesnt-juggle-he-doesnt-twist-balloons-into-animal-shapes-he-just-stares-who-is-the-creepy-clown-terrifying-the-people-of-northampton-8819006.html
20:31:15 <Bike> dream job
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20:32:00 <fizzie> Good URL. Best clown.
20:33:27 <boily> oerjan: thanks for the clarification.
20:34:04 <boily> today's \LaTeX{} command: \emergencystretch. quite useful for that bunch of unwarranted overfull hboxen!
20:39:19 <oerjan> <Roujo> Also, un clavier AZERTY en vaut deux <-- wait, keyboard is clavier in french?
20:39:46 <oerjan> no:klavér means a large piano, or thereabouts.
20:40:10 <Bike> well-tempered keyboard
20:40:24 <fizzie> Clever keyboard.
20:40:33 <oerjan> hm clavus is latin for key, iirc
20:40:44 <oerjan> (modulo suffix)
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20:41:06 <boily> oerjan: I concur. keyboard is indeed «clavier».
20:41:20 <boily> (no. «vier» is not a board.)
20:41:24 <kmc> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/unfortunate-bbc-moustache-for-nigel-farage-8829452.html
20:41:51 <fizzie> English also calls both keyboards of typing kind and music kind just keyboards, so that's reasonable?
20:42:10 <oerjan> i assume the french word, like the english, can be used both for computer and musical keyboards.
20:42:20 <Bike> "Apologies for my previous tweet. An error of judgement on my behalf." you are incorrect!
20:42:37 <Bike> didn't a ukip guy get in trouble for assault today
20:42:55 <Bike> by which i men hitting someone with a newspaper
20:43:02 <oerjan> fizzie: i assume your comment implies that finnish, like norwegian, uses different words.
20:43:29 <Bike> «MEP Godfrey Bloom, who refers to a room of female delegates as "sluts" and then whacks Channel 4 News's Michael Crick over the head» ah, yes
20:44:03 <oerjan> tastatur and (iirc) klaviatur, respectively
20:44:06 <Bike> "The trouble with Godfrey is that, he is not a racist, he's not an extremist or any of those things and he's not even anti-women, but he has a sort-of rather old fashioned territorial army sense of humour which does not translate very well in modern Britain." he's not racist, just racist
20:44:09 <fizzie> oerjan: It does. ("näppäimistö" and "koskettimisto".)
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20:45:02 <fizzie> oerjan: "Näppäillä" is approximately "to tap", while "koskettaa" is "to touch". So you tap a computer keyboard, but touch a musical one.
20:45:35 <oerjan> hm -imist[oö] means what?
20:45:41 <boily> Spanish "tocar el piano"?
20:46:27 <fizzie> oerjan: Well, it goes through the noun-ifications "näppäin" 'thing you tap', "kosketin" 'thing you touch' first.
20:46:48 <fizzie> oerjan: Then it's a sort of a "multiple of these things" construction from there.
20:47:57 <oerjan> Bike: technically you're not racist if you hate _everyone_
20:48:18 <Bike> technically you are racist if you're part of ukip, though
20:48:21 <nooodl> looks like the -ier suffix in "clavier" comes from this http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-arius so it's like "keyer"
20:48:42 <Bike> also nontechnically
20:48:53 <fizzie> It's a slightly specific, it will sound silly if you try applying the construction to arbitrary words. But there are other similar words.
20:49:02 <oerjan> Bike: hey you may just think ukip gets closest to your general view on humanity, even if they're too light on the british.
20:49:06 <Bike> keyinator
20:49:24 <Bike> oerjan: i know you're being funny and all but it's hard to laugh at them in this fashion
20:49:39 <fizzie> The library card catalog (if such still existed) is a "kortisto", because it contains many cards ("kortti"), and so on.
20:49:58 <Bike> oh, did i mention, i checked out a library book a few days back that had a punchcard in it
20:50:13 <oerjan> Bike: try drawing moustaches on their pictures before laughing. toothbrush style should work well.
20:50:48 <oerjan> Bike: darn i should have checked the second link above first
20:50:54 <fizzie> And, uh, I suppose "toimisto" means "office" because many tasks ("toimi", one sense) are performed there?
20:50:59 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/50f6f8e4b7307955663b689dce7e5e8a/tumblr_mt3ajafUPK1r7tprao2_r1_1280.jpg behold, the future
20:52:24 <kmc> nice
20:52:31 <boily> what the fungot is that...
20:52:31 <fungot> boily: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. for you, it was a red rock as the chancellor. i can't burn, they take us in. many cloud in sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
20:52:32 <kmc> do they still use them as punch cards?
20:52:34 <fizzie> Anyhow, you can't say "tuolisto" (a thing of many chairs "tuoli") without it sounding completely ridiculous, but you can say "penkistö" (a thing of many benches "penkki") and it sounds perfectly natural.
20:53:03 <oerjan> fizzistö
20:53:04 <kmc> MITSFS has a bunch of punch cards like that, but these days they're used only for scratch paper / decoration
20:54:31 <fizzie> Oh, and the standard word for a park is "puisto", where "puu" means "a tree". (It's used also if the park in question has no trees in it.)
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20:56:21 <fizzie> iconv -f iso-8859-1 < /usr/share/dict/finnish | grep -i 'ist[oö]$' | wc -l => 94.
20:56:45 <fizzie> (Not all of those are -- at least in any sort of obvious way -- constructed from a base noun.)
20:57:05 <kmc> why is your dictionary in ISO 8859-1 :(
20:57:10 <fizzie> I have no idea.
20:57:24 <fizzie> That's what Debian "wfinnish" installs.
20:58:01 <kmc> also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Character_Set#History_of_ISO_10646 apparently the original plan for extending UCS-2 beyond 2^16 codepoints was to use ISO 2022
20:58:18 <oerjan> puuttaisto
20:58:33 <kmc> so the original plan was even worse than UTF-16
20:58:36 <fizzie> It might technically be in ISO 8859-15. Though there are no characters in it for which that'd make a difference.
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20:59:09 <boily> why are some people still attached to ISO 2022?
20:59:46 <kmc> I don't think many people are...
20:59:54 <kmc> but it still gets used for line-drawing in non-Unicode terminals, at least
21:00:52 <Roujo> |||
21:00:58 <Roujo> That should be enough for anyone
21:01:16 <Roujo> Heck, take a -, a _ and a ­¯ as well
21:01:26 <kmc> (and gets used for line-drawing in Unicode terminals when the software in question doesn't care enough to switch)
21:01:30 <Roujo> Maybe even a =, a / and a \
21:01:38 <kmc> what about +
21:01:42 <Roujo> That too
21:01:48 <boily> kmc: I think the not-caring part is the most important factor in non-unicodifying the whole world.
21:01:49 <AnotherTest> + is useful for doing corners
21:01:51 <Roujo> See? Plenty to go around
21:02:03 <Roujo> #, even
21:02:15 <Roujo> ! if you want a bit of flair
21:02:29 <Roujo> ( and ) for squiggles
21:02:34 <fizzie> ~~~
21:02:37 <myname> [^a-zA-Z0-9] even
21:02:43 <Roujo> MEH
21:02:49 <Roujo> ? doesn't quite do it for me
21:03:00 <Roujo> And neither does &
21:03:03 <Roujo> But ~...
21:03:09 <boily> ~ is sexy.
21:03:14 <Roujo> All night long~~
21:03:18 <myname> ~ sweet ~
21:03:34 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/HebS
21:03:43 <AnotherTest> (~·~) (is that a valid smiley?)
21:03:51 <fizzie> I'm sure I've seen a box like that somewhere.
21:04:00 <Roujo> AnotherTest: Probably.
21:04:10 <Roujo> Ask boily, the smiley
21:04:12 <fizzie> Possibly with corners made out of Os or something.
21:04:15 <Roujo> It rhymes, so it's true
21:04:38 <AnotherTest> (~,·)
21:04:39 <Roujo> And Taneb can't object, either
21:04:40 <Roujo> So there
21:05:11 <AnotherTest> ~(·_·)~
21:05:11 -!- Bike has joined.
21:05:30 <Bike> kmc: they don't still use them. the librarian gave me that one since otherwise he was just going to trash it.
21:05:45 <Bike> i can only assume nobody had checked out "Reflections on Muscles" for a while, shocking as that is
21:06:00 <boily> Roujo: stop rhyming me, you unpoetic fiend!
21:07:01 <kmc> Uncle Muscles Hour
21:07:28 <Roujo> `? Uncle Muscles
21:07:33 <AnotherTest> Can any group action on a set be used to define an equivalence relation on a set?
21:07:33 <Roujo> Right
21:07:41 <Roujo> HackEgo got kicked by elliott
21:07:43 <AnotherTest> (the same set twice)
21:07:44 <Bike> yeah i thought it would make for a good androphilic porno too
21:07:56 <Bike> alas andrew huxley wasn't that hot when he wrote it
21:08:12 <Bike> hm, wonder if i can find a picture of him young
21:08:17 <kmc> Uncle Muscles is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_and_Eric_Awesome_Show,_Great_Job!
21:08:57 <boily> Roujo: let me try an experimentale manœuvre...
21:08:57 <kmc> which is basically a fever dream nightmare version of public access cable
21:09:07 -!- metasepia has joined.
21:09:10 <boily> ~duck uncle muscles
21:09:10 <metasepia> --- No relevant information
21:09:17 <boily> Roujo: nope. didn't work.
21:09:24 <Bike> wow there are like no pictures of this guy before he was like forty
21:09:47 <kmc> about half of the actors are internationally known comedians, the other half are random people in LA they hired off craigslist, and the two groups get equal respect and screentime
21:10:02 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Young_Huxley_RN.jpg i guess his gramps was cute, though
21:10:29 <Bike> "darwin's bulldog": possibly a bdsm thing? discuss
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21:15:37 <oerjan> AnotherTest: the obvious way would be an equivalence relation whose classes are the orbits of the group action
21:18:02 <AnotherTest> oerjan: well, considering I'm just reading this algebra book I'm not really familiar with all the terminology
21:18:16 <AnotherTest> what's an orbit of a group action?
21:18:49 <oerjan> AnotherTest: just a set of the form { g x | g \in G } for x \in X
21:19:30 <oerjan> alternatively, just define directly x ~ y as \exists g \in G : g x = y
21:20:13 <oerjan> then g^-1 y = x, and transitivity is just multiplication
21:21:13 <oerjan> it is possible i'm not using the right terminology, g x is g acting on x.
21:21:31 <oerjan> *terminology for your book
21:22:18 <AnotherTest> Yeah, that's sort of what I meant
21:23:39 <AnotherTest> well, it seems like a possibly useful result
21:25:08 <oerjan> now prove that _every_ equivalence relation can be got from a group action >:)
21:26:50 <oerjan> (not necessarily a very interesting one, mind you)
21:29:27 <oerjan> <boily> Taneb: /bwali/. <-- wait make up your mind, is it french or irish
21:30:19 <boily> oerjan: it is pronounced as in French. it is ultimately Irish. it is rael. it is real. ♪ guitar solo ♪
21:31:13 <oerjan> but is it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABl ?
21:31:26 <boily> HA HA HA!
21:31:28 <boily> no.
21:34:04 <Bike> http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0061798 gotta love biocyberneticists
21:34:12 <Bike> instead of jacking into turtle brains, we'll just put blinders on them
21:35:06 <fizzie> Fig. 4 is nice.
21:36:36 <oerjan> Bike: that's not cybernetics, just politics.
21:37:50 <Bike> ha ha, but "cybernetics" means politics!
21:37:51 <Bike> your move
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21:40:53 <oerjan> i'll borrow the porn e2 to e4 from the other day.
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21:44:22 <oerjan> <nooodl> "espère que ça aide" EQÇA <-- can i borrow that for emergencies?
21:44:57 <nooodl> oerjan: i hereby release these four letters to the public domain. EQÇA. wait aren't you supposed to be kicking the habit
21:45:06 <oerjan> >_>
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21:59:57 <Roujo> @tell Taneb Oh. OH. Yeah, I remember now - she also lost her voice. God, that took a while
21:59:57 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:01:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:15:07 <olsner> hmm, were you guys trying to add latex-formatted quotes to the quotedb or something?
22:18:45 -!- SingingBoyo has joined.
22:18:48 <oerjan> i think that was a mispaste.
22:23:27 <olsner> good
22:26:03 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
22:46:59 <olsner> oerjan: are you old?
22:47:34 <oerjan> 43.
22:48:45 <olsner> 43...
22:49:26 <oerjan> 43.........
22:49:31 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined.
22:50:11 <olsner> 43!?!?!?
22:51:19 <oerjan> 43‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽
22:51:58 <olsner> hmm, did shachaf leave here?
22:52:16 <oerjan> eek
22:52:59 <olsner> there should be an opposite of a ban we could use for people who try to leave
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22:54:25 <oerjan> yeah we should have nabbed shachaf before he escaped
22:55:28 <OriginalOldMan> Hehe
22:59:08 <Bike> olsner: summon?
22:59:53 <olsner> hmm, maybe you're looking for the other kind of esoterica?
23:00:11 <oerjan> Bike: ಠ_ಠ
23:00:11 <myndzi> ¯|¯⌠
23:00:12 <myndzi> |\|
23:00:29 <Bike> do you require assistance
23:01:23 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:01:49 <olsner> Bike: I am sleep
23:05:21 -!- nisstyre has joined.
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23:50:14 -!- Nikita has joined.
23:55:31 <Nikita> hello
23:57:25 -!- Nikita has changed nick to nio247.
23:58:01 <elliott> `welcome nio247
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23:58:36 <mnoqy> i hear hackego got kicked by elliott
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