←2013-12-09 2013-12-10 2013-12-11→ ↑2013 ↑all
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00:39:29 <oerjan> int-e: eek
00:40:27 <oerjan> hm int-e doesn't look overly present either.
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00:43:50 <oerjan> > var$"wh"++repeat'e'
00:43:55 <lambdabot> Not in scope: repeat'e'
00:43:58 <oerjan> oops
00:43:59 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `repeated' (imported from Control.Lens)
00:44:03 <oerjan> > var$"wh"++repeat 'e'
00:44:04 <lambdabot> wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
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00:50:59 <oerjan> @tell myname <myname> where do i find said implementation? <-- it says you have to email immibis hth
00:51:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:51:38 <oerjan> (i think i saw immibis around on the net recently too.)
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01:15:13 <kmc> typeof(*p) *_________p1 = (typeof(*p)*__force )ACCESS_ONCE(p);
01:15:22 <kmc> http://livegrep.com/search/linux?q=\b_________[a-z]
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01:17:14 <Bike> jesus
01:17:42 <kmc> \rainbow{LINUX}
01:18:09 <kmc> want to make a distro called Jesus Rainbow Linux?
01:18:11 <Bike> is "typeof(*p) *" different from "typeof(p)" given that p is a pointer
01:18:31 <kmc> probably
01:18:37 <Bike> great
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01:19:50 <kmc> maybe it's for discarding cv-qualifiers
01:20:01 <kmc> meaning const and volatile
01:20:33 <Bike> oh cool the gcc example of typeof is just an avoiding multiple evaluation thing :/
01:21:15 <Bike> " typeof (typeof (char *)[4]) y;" also
01:21:24 <kmc> and what the christ is __force for
01:21:26 <kmc> https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v3.11/tools/perf/util/include/linux/compiler.h#L18
01:21:35 <kmc> maybe it's an annotation to Sparse, like __user?
01:21:57 <kmc> Bike: what
01:22:12 <Bike> it is equivalent to char *y[4];, supposedly
01:23:28 <Bike> docs don't mention const or volatile though
01:25:10 <kmc> also if p is an array type
01:25:27 <kmc> then typeof(*p)* will be a pointer and not an array, I expect
01:25:36 <Bike> i don't know shit about arrays :(
01:25:41 <Bike> (or C in general)
01:26:14 <kmc> they say the first step to truly understanding C is understanding that arrays are just pointers, and the second step is understanding that arrays are not just pointers
01:26:46 <kmc> (it's more correct to say that array types decay into pointer types in certain circumstances)
01:26:56 <shachaf> Almost all circumstances.
01:27:37 <shachaf> I think there are only two non-decay things you can do with an array.
01:27:46 <kmc> sizeof
01:27:53 <shachaf> And &
01:27:58 * kmc nods
01:28:09 <shachaf> http://mauke.hopto.org/stuff/c/array-pointer.html says so.
01:28:11 <Bike> and now typeof
01:28:19 <kmc> and _Alignof prolly
01:28:21 <Bike> :p
01:28:26 <kmc> for int a[10], a and &a have the same integral value, but not so for int *a
01:29:00 <shachaf> I,I the first step to understanding C is understanding that functions are just pointers to functions
01:29:07 <kmc> oh it's alignof(type) but _Alignas
01:29:42 <kmc> shachaf: :3
01:29:57 <Bike> well that's not too hard to understand
01:30:30 <shachaf> i like how the f in f(x) isn't a function but a function pointer
01:31:13 <kmc> i like how C has function types and they're almost useless until C++11 std::function comes along
01:31:38 <shachaf> what can you even do with them
01:31:44 <shachaf> you can get a sizeof error
01:32:01 <kmc> typedef void fty(int); fty *ptr = whatever
01:32:08 <Bike> are they not checked?
01:32:17 <kmc> could be useful for "poor man's templates" i.e. macros generating data structure code
01:32:50 <kmc> like all this stuff https://github.com/CentOS/ksplice/blob/master/objcommon.h
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01:42:25 <kmc> i did typedef void ty(int); int main() { ty x; }
01:42:38 <kmc> and I was expecting it to complain that a function type is incomplete
01:42:41 <kmc> but actually it's fine!
01:42:47 <kmc> it just declares (locally) a function named x
01:42:54 <elliott> you can do that without the typedef, too
01:43:01 <elliott> weird old code declares printf and stuff that way
01:43:11 <kmc> compilers hate this 1 weird old trick to declare printf
01:43:26 <kmc> declares it with extern linkage i guess, because that's the default for functions, never mind what syntax you use
01:43:27 <pikhq> Note that in standard C you can only have local declarations, not local definitions of functions.
01:43:31 <kmc> right
01:43:59 <kmc> I knew about local function declarations but had forgotten they can look like "ordinary" decls using typedef
01:44:19 <kmc> also these are the source of one of C++'s many syntactic warts
01:44:53 <kmc> is Foo x(bar) a declaration of a function or a definition of a Foo object with a constructor argument?
01:46:52 <kmc> i think it's the former and you have to use Foo x = Foo(bar) for the latter
01:46:53 <kmc> but i forgot
01:48:04 <elliott> it depends on what Foo is I think
01:48:10 <elliott> maybe what bar is too
01:48:18 <kmc> heh
01:48:21 <kmc> like all of C++
01:48:59 <oerjan> `quote 1143
01:49:00 <HackEgo> 1143) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
01:49:12 <oerjan> `quote ꙮ
01:49:14 <HackEgo> 1143) <shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
01:49:18 <kmc> but ꙮ is alphanumeric!!
01:49:36 <kmc> Category: Letter, Other [Lo]
01:49:36 <Bike> scandal rocks the unicode poetry establishment
01:49:54 <oerjan> `run grep ꙮ wisdom/*
01:49:56 <HackEgo> No output.
01:50:02 <Bike> "the scoundrel doesn't even know his general categories", sources complain
01:50:06 <oerjan> `run grep ꙮ quotes
01:50:08 <HackEgo> ​<shachaf> A Swede who was in #esoteric / Thought his rhymes were a little generic. / "I might use, in my prose, / ꙮs, / But my poetry's alphanumeric."
01:50:25 <oerjan> i am just surprised that one wasn't already added somewhere.
01:51:04 * kmc fucking off now, ttyl
01:51:13 <Bike> have fucking fun
01:51:19 <oerjan> kmc: hm is it Other just because there is only one instance so no way to make an upper/lower case pair?
01:51:39 <oerjan> presumably it's lower case in principle.
01:51:49 <oerjan> oh wait
01:51:55 <oerjan> is Lo for lower.
01:52:28 <oerjan> then wtf does Other mean.
01:53:32 <Bike> oerjan: looks like lowercase is Ll, no
01:53:44 <oerjan> aha
01:54:11 <oerjan> so Lo is just an abbreviation for the stuff before.
01:54:25 <Bike> for letter other, yeah
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02:11:13 * oerjan wonders what boily will say to having to get multiocular o into the pdf
02:11:31 <oerjan> i suspect quebecois swearing.
02:12:14 <oerjan> *québécois
02:15:25 <oerjan> <olsner> I think it sends latin1 (or cp1252) if possible, but decodes as utf8 if possible <-- i assume this means it can encode it into something it decodes wrongly
02:17:30 <shachaf> I thought that case was handled?
02:17:43 <shachaf> (Sending something that can be wrongly decoded into UTF-8.)
02:17:47 <shachaf> Then again, maybe not.
02:18:30 <oerjan> hm ok
02:18:45 <shachaf> imo don't trust me
02:19:27 <oerjan> ^ord ꙮ
02:19:27 <fungot> 234 153 174
02:20:54 <oerjan> i suppose it might be rare
02:22:05 <oerjan> > chr <$> [234, 153, 174]
02:22:06 <lambdabot> "\234\153\174"
02:22:12 <oerjan> so helpful
02:22:29 <oerjan> > var $ chr <$> [234, 153, 174]
02:22:30 <lambdabot> ê®
02:22:51 <oerjan> ^ord ê®
02:22:51 <fungot> 195 170 194 174
02:23:14 <oerjan> `ord ê®
02:23:16 <HackEgo> 234 174
02:23:25 <oerjan> it just skipped 153?
02:23:39 <oerjan> > var "\153"
02:23:58 <oerjan> UM
02:24:12 <oerjan> > "\153"
02:24:13 <lambdabot> "\153"
02:24:20 <oerjan> > var ""
02:24:21 <lambdabot> Terminated
02:25:00 <oerjan> hm i suppose it's in the control code part
02:25:17 <oerjan> `ord ꙮ
02:25:18 <HackEgo> 234 153 174
02:26:03 <oerjan> would someone with xchat try and copy/paste that
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02:36:04 <doesthiswork> uh oh lambdabot is becoming skynet
02:36:23 <oerjan> wat
02:36:36 <oerjan> ...oh
02:36:43 <doesthiswork> lambdabot 6:24 Terminated
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02:37:33 <quintopia> why can't we just add cencoding control codes to irc the same way mirc added color codes
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02:38:02 <Bike> how would you encode the codes
02:38:27 <quintopia> they would be the first byte in a message. no encoding necessary.
02:38:41 <quintopia> same way html works kinda
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02:48:24 <ion> http://theshovel.com.au/2013/12/09/man-forced-to-watch-concert-through-his-own-eyes/
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02:54:22 <ion> “including some odd claims such as that the watch had 1080p resolution (huh? on a watch?!?)” Comments that will amuse in 15 years. http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131207/02231325495/kickstarter-projects-getting-called-out-just-reselling-products-china.shtml
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03:13:40 <kmc> is Lambdabot 6:24 a bible verse
03:15:05 <Slereah> Robot bible
03:18:35 <kmc> The Good Book 3.0
03:21:22 <Slereah> The Fully Functional Book
03:22:07 <doesthiswork> dammit kmc you beat me to the futurama reference
03:22:12 <ion> Related? http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/
03:22:51 <Slereah> :D
03:23:10 <zzo38> Has the Futurama theorem been used for anything outside of Futurama?
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03:23:26 <Bike> is that the one about body switching
03:23:44 <zzo38> Yes
03:24:23 <Slereah> More generally it's about permutations that you can only do once per pair
03:24:37 <zzo38> Yes
03:27:47 <doesthiswork> 22:14
03:27:47 <doesthiswork> The mouth of strange women is a deep and wonderful property of computation.
03:28:10 <Slereah> I know right
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03:29:37 <Bike> fiora prime, destroyer of worlds
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03:30:36 <kmc> there can be only one
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03:33:57 <doesthiswork> actually I'm rather fond of multiple return values
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03:36:01 <ion> As in a tuple? Or as in generators?
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03:37:53 <Bike> hey Fiora remember when i was talking about bifurcation? get a load of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Verhulst-Mandelbrot-Bifurcation.jpg
03:38:58 <Fiora> O_O
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03:40:17 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set#Main_cardioid_and_period_bulbs more deets
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03:41:49 <Slereah> Why do they call them cardioids
03:41:53 <Slereah> When they are clearly butt shaped
03:41:58 <Slereah> Glutoids
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03:42:44 <Bike> man i think i need a copy of counterexamples in topology just to understand all the definitions
03:43:01 <Slereah> I have a great counterexample book
03:43:12 <Slereah> It's just a big book of 500 counterexamples in math
03:43:15 <Slereah> Pretty useful
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04:49:00 <quintopia> Slereah: does it tell what they are countereamples for
04:49:18 <quintopia> because i think it would be more awesome if it didn't
04:49:34 <quintopia> just a list of numbers you should test your conjecture on
04:50:22 <Bike> "14235. Good luck, champ."
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04:50:46 <Slereah> heh
04:50:52 <Slereah> Nah, it's pretty specific
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04:51:20 <Slereah> Like the first chapter is counterexamples of set theory
04:52:02 <Slereah> Then group theory, rings and fields, vector spaces, real numbers, series, real functions, integrals and so on
04:53:30 <Bike> hm, i can improvise for sadly few of those
04:53:31 <Bike> -1-38-38.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #yackfest
04:53:33 <Bike> oops.
04:54:24 <Slereah> I'm disappointed, this channel does not exist
04:54:54 <Slereah> Well, if you want some of the counterexamples
04:55:02 <Bike> whether a barber cuts their own hair (naïve set theory), pi (all reals are algebraic), lim n->\infty x -> x^n (the limit of a series of continuous functions is continuous)
04:55:33 <Slereah> 1) forall x exists y P(x,y) is true while exists y forall x P(x,y) is false
04:56:15 <quintopia> whats the P
04:56:20 <Slereah> 2) forall x (P(x) and Q(x)) is true and forall x (P(x) and forall x Q(x)) is false
04:56:33 <Slereah> Some truth function
04:56:40 <Bike> quantification over predicates :o
04:57:42 <quintopia> Slereah: no which P is a countereample
04:58:10 <Slereah> Let's see
04:58:13 <Slereah> Man it's long
04:59:31 <Slereah> Oh wait, there's a shorter one
05:00:02 <Slereah> Basically it's P(x,y) being x <= y
05:00:47 <Slereah> It's true that for all x, there's a y that is bigger
05:01:01 <Slereah> But if you switch the forall and existence, it means that there's a y bigger than all x's
05:02:12 <Slereah> On the other hand, it is always true that exists y forall x P(x,y) -> forall x exists y P(x,y)
05:02:17 <Slereah> but it doesn't work the other way around
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05:33:47 <Sgeo_> Evil popup had a too-long message on the navigate away event (or whatever it's called) making it impossible to close
05:33:48 <Sgeo_> >:(
05:33:52 <Sgeo_> Had to kill Chrome
05:34:48 <Bike> update on using C++ for operator overloading: this paper defines a power series class for which & is composition
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05:54:30 <zzo38> Are the aces high in some games due to the French Revolution?
05:56:49 <zzo38> I think you can toggle the zero flag in a 6502 code by: PHP PLA AND #2 sequence of instructions. Are there better ways?
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06:46:33 <zzo38> Is there a function in standard C libraries to test if a file is seekable or not?
06:47:30 <lifthrasiir> (ftell(fp) < 0 && errno == EBADF)?
06:47:44 <lifthrasiir> (according to the Linux man page)
06:48:05 <myname> interesting
06:48:15 <myname> "if you don't know, just try"
06:49:31 <zzo38> I want it to work on Windows as well as Linux (and even on FreeBSD, Mac OS X, etc); the reason I wanted to know is if you are redirecting input from a file, it can just skip over the part it isn't using instead of reading and ignoring it, which it would be if it is a pipe or a serial port or something else like that.
06:52:08 <Bike> ftell and ebadf are standard c right
06:52:17 <lifthrasiir> then directly invoking fseek and testing for its errno should work
06:52:31 <lifthrasiir> though I question the conformance level of msvcrt...
06:52:55 <Bike> oh, no badf in errno
06:56:57 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: well, ISO C99 does not have a specific errno for it, but it clearly indicates that fseek can fail and return -1 on that case, so checking for fseek's result seems to be sufficient
06:57:40 <lifthrasiir> if fseek failed due to other problems, then you have much more issues to worry about
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07:43:56 <fizzie> POSIX suggests that fseek should fail with ESPIPE if the underlying stream is pipe/FIFO/socket, and EBADF only if "The file descriptor underlying stream is not an open file descriptor"; and anyway I suppose ftell can work even when fseek doesn't. (But the strategy of just trying fseek and giving up if it returns -1 sounds reasonable.)
07:46:31 <zzo38> If you are only seeking forward then it can just read and ignore however many bytes it would otherwise skip, if it is unable to just skip them.
07:48:37 <kmc> p.o.s.i.x.
08:24:03 <shachaf> http://www.cs.au.dk/~gerth/slides/cphstl06.pdf is unrelated to what I was looking for, but interesting.
08:24:17 <quintopia> what is it
08:24:18 <zzo38> The king that is allowed to move any distance (like a queen does) rather than just one, may be called by different names in different chess variants; which names do you know? I have seen "King Battler" and "Royal Queen"; I have used "Long King" in some of my own games.
08:25:00 <shachaf> zomg i invented the name "royal queen" more than a decade ago
08:25:23 <shachaf> first in hebrew and then translated to english
08:25:36 <shachaf> and i think it was for that piece
08:25:50 <shachaf> also later other pieces that gained the ability to teleport and all sorts of things
08:26:38 <zzo38> Yes, that is kind of clear that such name is probably for that king of piece. (However, I prefer "long king"; some others prefer "king battler")
08:26:50 <zzo38> What is other pieces gained the ability to teleport and what other things are they?
08:26:51 <kmc> isn't "royal queen" kind of redundant?
08:27:11 <shachaf> kmc: well it was vaguely more like "kingly queen" in the original
08:27:16 <quintopia> how does one even win a game with long kings. seems like it greatly reduces the number of possible mates
08:27:18 <shachaf> though maybe it ought to have been a "queenly king"
08:27:24 <shachaf> or maybe something else, i don't remember
08:27:40 <shachaf> also what's with using "ly" to make adjectives what is that even for
08:28:02 <zzo38> quintopia: Probably if other pieces can also have more powers (and/or more pieces); or if the game has both a long king and a short king and capturing either one of them wins, then it is another way.
08:28:29 <quintopia> ah
08:28:34 <shachaf> zzo38: i mean that "royal queen" later meant a more powerful piece that was able to teleport
08:28:42 <shachaf> made the game very short because it was checkmate on the first move
08:30:12 <zzo38> O, yes, clearly... unless some restrictions are applied to such thing (some games do have such a thing)
08:30:53 <quintopia> like
08:31:04 <quintopia> if you teleport you can't caputre on that move
08:31:11 <quintopia> seems a reasonable restriction
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08:32:42 <zzo38> Yes, that is one way, it works
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09:20:45 <zzo38> My brother has once made up a chess variant "bland chess", while waiting in a restaurant. It is a chess game with no diagonal moves (knight moves are still allowed, though). That means pawns cannot capture, queens are same as rooks, bishops cannot move at all, and kings have orthogonal moves only.
09:21:16 <shachaf> That sounds bland.
09:21:28 <myname> sounds a bit useless
09:21:33 <quintopia> so the bishops just sit there hoping to get captured so they can get out of everyone's way
09:21:35 <quintopia> hilarious
09:21:55 <quintopia> 'i'll take your queen bishop if you'll get rid of my damned bishop'
09:22:04 <myname> quintopia: one could add a rule to capture pieces of the own fraction
09:22:30 <zzo38> quintopia: Yes, it does work like that way (although "deals" like that aren't binding any more than they are in normal chess).
09:23:23 <quintopia> myname: that seems actually interesting
09:23:32 <zzo38> Because of the knights, the game actually works kind of OK.
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09:27:54 <Timwi> I guess I managed to survive the night
09:28:13 <zzo38> But then later on I had another idea I made a game "unbland chess", where the pieces can each move diagonally once per game, and using cards (which isn't visible to opponent) you can replenish the power to move diagonally.
09:28:40 <shachaf> such a zzo38 game
09:28:55 <shachaf> How do the cards work?
09:30:49 <zzo38> The cards are four of each numbered 1 to 8. You start with two cards and can have up to three cards in your hand at once; you pick one up if you give check or capture an opponent's piece. You can play two cards, choose one to correspond to the rank and one to correspond to the file, and one of your own pieces that has already move diagonal which is standing on that cell, now regains the diagonal ability.
09:31:28 <myname> what?
09:31:37 <myname> make a website with detailed explanation
09:31:54 <shachaf> What happens if you already have three cards?
09:32:05 <myname> also, have you ever played knightmare chess?
09:32:05 <zzo38> shachaf: Then you do not pick up another card.
09:32:11 <zzo38> myname: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSunblandchess
09:32:15 <shachaf> Can you pick one up and then choose which to discard?
09:32:18 <zzo38> myname: No, I have not played knightmare chess
09:32:25 <zzo38> shachaf: No.
09:33:07 <Timwi> Do you get to pick up two if you check by taking a piece? (assuming you have only 0 or 1)
09:33:25 <shachaf> You can also get a card by promoting a piece.
09:33:39 <shachaf> What if you take a piece, check, *and* promote all in the same turn?
09:34:02 <Timwi> (whoo, I’ve actually done that before)
09:34:18 <shachaf> Can you take two cards, use them to replenish diagonal powers, and then take another card?
09:34:56 <Timwi> Also, can I use just one card (e.g. the 1) to diagonalize a piece on the diagonal (in this case, A1)?
09:34:57 <zzo38> Timwi: It wasn't clear, but now I fixed it; now it says that you can.
09:35:10 <zzo38> And no, you cannot use just one card to diagonalize a piece on the diagonal.
09:35:55 <shachaf> That's not what I asked.
09:36:04 <shachaf> Oh, wait, I see.
09:36:05 <zzo38> I also fixed it so that the 1 corresponds to *your* first rank (rather than only white), so that it is more symmetric.
09:36:14 <shachaf> You have to replenish diagonal powers *instead* of moving.
09:36:44 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, you have to instead of moving. And, yes if you have no cards and you capture, check, and promote on one turn, you can pick up three.
09:36:46 <shachaf> I thought you could play it as an instant.
09:39:21 <Timwi> Yeah, I thought of it as an instant too
09:39:56 <Timwi> We should have chess in which every piece has a power and toughness
09:40:14 <Timwi> and you can play spells to change them, or to give them Flying or First strike
09:40:18 <zzo38> Yes, we could make up such chess variant like that too perhaps
09:40:30 <Timwi> I can’t believe I never thought of this before
09:41:08 <zzo38> Flying pieces is allowed to move past non-flying pieces as if those other pieces isn't in the way.
09:41:43 <b_jonas> hmm, I thought for a moment that you were talking about Lambda: the Gathering "http://icfpc2011.blogspot.jp/2011/06/task-description-contest-starts-now.html"
09:41:46 <Timwi> Pieces with Trampling also damage the king even if not attacking it
09:41:58 <b_jonas> from "diagonal power"
09:43:26 <zzo38> Timwi: OK.
09:43:35 <shachaf> @quote the.gathering
09:43:35 <lambdabot> zzo38 says: Such as, we try to make something similar to a combination of Haskell, C, BLISS, TeX, WEB, Prolog, INTERCAL, and Magic: the Gathering; and then make it with many things omitted such as Unicode syntax, layout, do-notation, list comprehensions; and add in macros and stuff, and then make up something new......
09:44:10 <shachaf> zzo38: How do you propose to combine Haskell with Magic: the Gathering?
09:46:48 <zzo38> shachaf: I am not quite sure, but something where effects can affect other effects (whether they are represented using monads or classes or something else)
09:47:54 <zzo38> These effects are effected similar to Magic: the Gathering effects, so not quite like I/O effects and those things.
09:51:49 <b_jonas> shachaf: isn't Lambda: the Gathering almost that?
09:52:09 <shachaf> But zzo38 said that beforehand; I was wondering what he meant.
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10:11:53 <zzo38> Make a chess variant involving INTERCAL somehow.
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10:14:19 <b_jonas> that sounds easy. DO ABSTAIN FROM PROMOTING TO KNIGHT
10:15:36 <b_jonas> afterall, chess is binary because it has 8 times 8 squares and intercal is binary
10:16:28 <b_jonas> also, in chess+intercal you don't move your pieces to another square, you bring your pieces FROM another square
10:17:16 <b_jonas> even from a computed square
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11:11:32 <fizzie> Huh, weird. This four-physical-cores-but-eight-logical-processors-due-to-hyperthreading box has, according to /proc/cpuinfo, the same physical core running at two different clock rates. That doesn't sound possible.
11:12:35 <Fiora> maybe it was read at twwo differnt times?
11:13:07 <fizzie> It doesn't do frequency scaling at *that* high rate, AFAIK.
11:13:25 <Fiora> like just by coincidence maybe? or does it happen every time
11:13:38 <fizzie> Well, often enough.
11:14:36 <fizzie> Hrm.
11:14:41 <fizzie> There seems to be a pattern here.
11:16:58 <fizzie> The logical numbers go from 0..7, where "core id" fields go 0, 1, 2, 3, 0, 1, 2, 3; with 4 CPU-intensive parallel tasks, it seems that (in repeated samplings) if the entry for a core in the first half has the highest clock rate, the corresponding entry in the second half has the lowest, and vice versa.
11:18:05 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/aaIX -- three random samples.
11:19:03 <fizzie> Must be some kind of a thing.
11:19:19 <fizzie> (With eight tasks, all 8 logical CPUs are listed as 3.3 GHz.)
11:22:01 <fizzie> "Is Enhanced Intel Speedstep® Technology compatible with Intel Hyper-Threading Technology?
11:22:04 <fizzie> Yes. The operating system sees two virtual processors. Requests to change the power state are prioritized between each virtual processor by the BIOS and the operating system; the power state will default to that of the virtual processor requesting the highest state."
11:22:14 <fizzie> Rather strange.
11:23:52 <fizzie> I guess it makes sense (fsvo), then, that for four active tasks it'd schedule them on different physical cores (but somewhat randomly on which HT half of a core), and then request the lowest speed for the "idle" half, even if (in reality) it'll still run at the higher clock rate.
11:24:05 <fizzie> Just makes this cpufreq indicator thing somewhat silly.
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11:42:32 <kmc> @botsnack
11:42:32 <lambdabot> :)
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13:02:57 <fizzie> !SENT_START MR. K. N. C. N. J. AND SHOW ALL ITS U. S. AND ENDS !SENT_END
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13:08:17 <fizzie> "int *p;
13:08:20 <fizzie> Gah, newlines.
13:09:17 <fizzie> "int *p; p = arr; Now we can access every element of array arr using p++ to move from one element to another. NOTE : You cannot decrement a pointer once incremented. p-- won't work."
13:09:41 <fizzie> (##c is commenting on some worst-C-advice-on-the-net site.)
13:14:11 <fizzie> Given int sum(int arr[]); and int sum(int *ptr); "one will lead to call by value and the other is used to perform call be reference".
13:14:29 <fizzie> It's like some sort of an attempt to be most wrong.
13:16:15 <int-e> hehe.
13:16:51 <int-e> arrays are pointers. except they are not. didn't we just mention this yesterday?
13:17:10 <int-e> I guess it comes up again and again and again.
13:18:16 <int-e> Oh, as a remedy for the p-- problem, let's all use --p.
13:21:04 <fizzie> "When an array is declared, compiler allocates sufficient amount of memory to contain all the elements of the array. Base address which gives location of the first element is also allocated by the compiler. -- Here variable arr will give the base address, which is a constant pointer pointing to the element, arr[0]."
13:21:27 <fizzie> As far as I can tell, it's (almost) describing B's arrays.
13:22:40 <int-e> Bah, they are trying to sort-of explain lvalues and rvalues without even distinguishing between left-hand and right-hand sides of assignments.
13:23:31 <int-e> unbelievable
13:23:41 <int-e> they mention i[a] but they get p-- wrong?
13:24:13 <fizzie> It's quite a mashup.
13:24:22 <int-e> oh it gets better. multidimensional arrays. good one.
13:25:07 <fizzie> Well, you know. "void type means no value. This is usually used to specify the type of functions."
13:29:04 <int-e> Oh. No, the multi-dimensional array thing is probably fine. It's just that *(*(ptr + i) + j) looks entirely wrong to me.
13:29:53 <int-e> Oh well.
13:29:56 <int-e> Nice find :)
13:30:34 <fizzie> There was another similiar site the other month, and that one also used < foo.h> (with the space) for standard includes, which puzzled me then and puzzles me still.
13:30:51 <fizzie> It could be some sort of a CMS markup workaround thing, I guess. In theory.
13:32:38 <fizzie> Given the lead-in text ("Lets see how we can make a pointer point to such an array --") I was sort of expecting to find something about the admittedly gnarly-looking pointer-to-array declarators.
13:33:41 <int-e> *(int[])
13:34:02 <fizzie> int arr[2][3] = {{1,2,3},{4,5,6}}; int (*p)[3] = arr; int (*q)[2][3] = &arr; p[1][2] == (*q)[1][2]; /* something about this sort of stuff */
13:35:01 <int-e> int a<:??) = ??<1,2,3%>;
13:35:53 <fizzie> There should be some kind of a law about mixing di- and trigraphs.
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13:37:25 <int-e> "warning: trigraph ??< ignored, use -trigraphs to enable" - boring!
13:39:14 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/GXCQ that one might possibly the most confusion-inducing trigraph.
13:41:15 <int-e> true.
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13:50:47 <int-e> Once during a mathematical conversation with a student, Alexander Grothendieck was asked to consider an example of a prime number.
13:50:50 <int-e> "You mean an actual prime number?" The student replied, "Yes, an actual prime."
13:50:53 <int-e> Grothendieck then said, "Alright then, take 57".
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14:03:18 <FireFly> I don't get it
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14:08:25 <fizzie> AIUI, it's a sign of a real mathematician to not be so overly concerned about numbers.
14:11:08 -!- tromp has quit.
14:12:23 <int-e> AFAIU Grothendieck in particular is famous for very deep, abstract results in mathematics, and solving even concrete problems on a slightly higher level of abstraction than most of his colleagues would consider in approaching those problems.
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14:13:30 <boily> good unsecure morning!
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14:14:52 <fizzie> ~metar EFHK
14:14:53 <metasepia> EFHK 101350Z 18014KT 3500 -SN BKN006 OVC010 00/M01 Q1024 TEMPO 2500
14:14:56 <fizzie> Good -SN afternoon.
14:20:33 <boily> ~metar CYUL
14:20:33 <metasepia> CYUL 101400Z 26015G24KT 15SM FEW035 FEW180 BKN240 M04/M10 A2988 RMK SC1AC2CI5 SC TR SLP121
14:21:30 <boily> I tried my new lockpicking kit yesterday at home. I suddenly realised I don't have no security at all...
14:21:45 <fizzie> Isn't it good to not have no security?
14:22:26 <Bike> did you also try out your throwing rocks through windows kit
14:22:47 <fizzie> (Do the rocks come in a handy carrying case?)
14:23:41 <Bike> they also come with reusable tape for attaching threatening messages
14:25:07 <boily> fizzie: well. I kinda overnegativised my sentence...
14:25:45 <boily> Bike: I only use organic, ISO 14001 certified window rocks, with locally produced vegan reusable tape.
14:33:30 <monotone> boily: Is the tape gluten-free?
14:36:22 <boily> I ran out of gluten free tape. anyone who can lend me a llama for my next pilgrimage to the Sacred Gluten Free Tape Tibetan Kibbutz?
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16:02:08 <boily> `unidecode ꙮ
16:05:03 <boily> why. why must you all make my archival life so difficult.
16:05:37 <int-e> Are you trying to typeset that in LaTeX?
16:05:51 * int-e eyes(sic!) boily suspiciously.
16:06:09 <boily> what else.
16:06:21 * boily wields his mapole.
16:07:52 * mrhmouse ducks
16:08:05 <boily> ~duck ducks
16:08:05 <metasepia> duck definition: any of various swimming birds (family Anatidae, the duck family) in which the neck and legs are short, the feet typically webbed, the bill often broad and flat, and the sexes usually different from each other in plumage.
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16:14:22 <int-e> \def\eye{\hbox to 0pt{\hss${\circ}\kern-.38em{\cdot}$\hss}}A\hbox{\eye\kern.18em\raise.32em\eye\lower.32em\eye\kern.18em\eye\kern.18em\raise.32em\eye\lower.32em\eye\kern.18em\eye}B
16:14:30 <int-e> boily: it's not perfect, but it's a start ;-)
16:15:00 <boily> multiocular fungot, batman!
16:15:01 <fungot> boily: there are no problems
16:15:11 <boily> fungot: of course there are problems. but there are solutions!
16:15:11 <fungot> boily: what is " catamorphic"? -g ( was that a self-referential quote?
16:15:17 <boily> `? catamorphism
16:15:19 <HackEgo> catamorphism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:15:29 <boily> int-e: do you have a github account?
16:15:39 <int-e> yes.
16:16:30 <boily> int-e: felgenhauer?
16:16:53 <int-e> int-e. Yes.
16:17:18 <boily> ♪ you are promoted to cocoonspirator. ♪
16:17:51 <boily> if you want to commit that over to the repo, and tag your commit with issue #3, that'd be nice :D
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16:27:23 <int-e> hmm. let's see if my latex installation is even up to the task
16:34:55 <int-e> boily: there you go
16:35:30 <int-e> boily: though maybe such definitions should go to a separate file. anyway, your turn.
16:37:52 <boily> let's see how it fares...
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16:44:31 <int-e> hmm. a bit more space, perhaps.
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16:50:00 <boily> int-e: indeed.
16:51:19 <Bike> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LAdbq5aRS6g/ScjY2VSXSXI/AAAAAAAAGkY/ZABL7AHmS6A/s400/Rex+Sotong.JPG baffling
16:52:08 <int-e> boily: done.
16:52:57 <boily> int-e: copied.
16:53:15 <boily> Bike: I don't see no problem with that. it says イカ on the can.
16:55:23 <Bike> does that mean squid
16:57:32 <boily> it means squid.
16:58:54 <int-e> So, why do I have an avatar on github at all?
16:59:21 <boily> they rolled out automagic avatars some time ago, hashed from your username.
16:59:42 <int-e> and how do I get rid of that?
16:59:50 <boily> by providing your own.
17:00:32 <int-e> but that means giving gravatar some sort of information.
17:01:27 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:03:07 <int-e> Oh, I can just enter some bogus gravatar email. Not nice, but ok.
17:03:33 <quintopia> hoily
17:06:50 <int-e> which, interestingly enough, works for my account profile, but not for an organization profile ... wth.
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17:11:56 <oerjan> <boily> why. why must you all make my archival life so difficult. <-- i knew you'd like that one.
17:12:15 <oerjan> although, it was inevitable.
17:12:45 <int-e> (the trick, then, is to enter something that looks like a valid e-mail address. why is github even giving all this information to gravatar? this is annoying.)
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17:16:57 <oerjan> `? catamorphism
17:16:59 <HackEgo> catamorphism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:17:36 <quintopia> that's where everything is shaped like a mountain lion right?
17:18:08 <oerjan> `run echo 'A catamorphism is when you recurse to greedily and too deep." >wisdom/catamorphism
17:18:10 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file
17:18:16 <oerjan> `run echo 'A catamorphism is when you recurse to greedily and too deep.' >wisdom/catamorphism
17:18:20 <HackEgo> No output.
17:18:28 <int-e> Ok. I got it wrong, I forgot that I have Adblock filtering everything gravatar. So the fact that I see my own icon means that it's not fetched from there. Which is actually close enough to what I wanted.
17:18:35 <quintopia> didn't you mean too greedily
17:18:47 <oerjan> oops
17:18:52 <oerjan> `run echo 'A catamorphism is when you recurse too greedily and too deep.' >wisdom/catamorphism
17:18:55 <Bike> greedily is a nice place in te summer
17:18:55 <HackEgo> No output.
17:19:19 <quintopia> Bike: hmm i wouldn't know. i've never recursed there.
17:19:38 <Gregor> I love how nobody uses `learn.
17:19:54 <quintopia> Gregor: i've seen some people use it
17:20:04 <Gregor> *lambdabot* oerjan said 5d 11m 23s ago: please fix the logs not to merge duplicate spaces, it's making quotes look like they're not qdbformat compliant hth // this is HTML being HTML, bugger off
17:20:05 <oerjan> Gregor: i use it when it fits.
17:20:13 <Bike> doesn't `learn always work for "`learn foo is a bar"
17:20:55 <oerjan> Gregor: i think there's a css style option for it.
17:21:09 <Gregor> You find it and I'll consider adding it.
17:23:10 <oerjan> Gregor: white-space:pre-wrap, i think.
17:26:10 <oerjan> Bike: yes, it works when the first word is the keyword or the keyword + s
17:26:24 <oerjan> or wait hm
17:26:31 <oerjan> `url bin/learn
17:26:33 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/learn
17:26:58 <oerjan> hm actually only `? handles +s
17:28:05 <Gregor> THERE
17:28:09 <Gregor> Are you quite satisfied.
17:28:12 <oerjan> MAYBE
17:29:02 <oerjan> `run echo 'tests ho' | sed 's/s? .*//'
17:29:03 <HackEgo> tests ho
17:29:07 <oerjan> `run echo 'tests ho' | sed 's/s\? .*//'
17:29:09 <HackEgo> test
17:29:29 <Gregor> ... dahell
17:29:52 <quintopia> Gregor used to be so much now. now he's no more than a curmudgeon.
17:29:59 <quintopia> s/now./fun./
17:30:00 <oerjan> Gregor: did something break
17:30:24 <Gregor> quintopia: I've always been a curmudgeon, I just used to have more time X-D
17:31:30 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2s!/ !/s\? /' bin/learn
17:31:32 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 12: unterminated `s' command
17:31:39 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2s!/ !/s\? !' bin/learn
17:31:43 <HackEgo> No output.
17:32:25 <oerjan> oh wait hm
17:32:40 <oerjan> `revert
17:32:43 <HackEgo> Done.
17:32:53 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2s!/ !/[Ss]\? !' bin/learn
17:32:56 <HackEgo> No output.
17:33:14 <oerjan> `learn Lions are the catamorphisms of the animal world.
17:33:18 <HackEgo> I knew that.
17:33:21 <oerjan> `? lion
17:33:23 <HackEgo> lion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:33:27 <oerjan> `? lions
17:33:29 <HackEgo> lions? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:33:33 <oerjan> argh
17:34:05 <oerjan> oh
17:34:38 <oerjan> `revert 4155
17:34:41 <HackEgo> Done.
17:35:10 <oerjan> `run sed -i '2s!/ !/[Ss]\\? !' bin/learn
17:35:13 <HackEgo> No output.
17:35:19 <Gregor> GET IT? THEY'RE CAT-AMORPHIC.
17:35:43 <oerjan> `learn Lions are the catamorphisms of the animal world.
17:35:48 <HackEgo> I knew that.
17:35:51 <oerjan> `? lion
17:35:53 <HackEgo> Lions are the catamorphisms of the animal world.
17:35:57 <oerjan> yay!
17:35:58 <quintopia> yay
17:36:30 <quintopia> Gregor: yes i get it because it was my joke first
17:37:44 <int-e> I'd have to do the same. Caps-Lock is otherwise occupied, I use it for switching between virtual screens.
17:38:26 <quintopia> i've hardly used caps lock in my life, but i've never remapped it. dunno what i'd map it to
17:38:49 <quintopia> it's really a pointless key these days
17:39:11 <int-e> NO IT"S NOT!
17:39:31 <Gregor> 10 PRINT "CAPS-LOCK IS AWESOME"
17:39:33 <Gregor> 20 GOTO 10
17:39:57 <quintopia> int-e: why are you shouting
17:39:58 <int-e> (with caps-lock, THE DOUBLE QUOTE WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED)
17:40:20 <quintopia> it also would not have happened if you were not holding down the shift key
17:40:23 <int-e> quintopia: Because YOU'RE WRONG. Or perhaps I'm just being silly.
17:40:52 <quintopia> but i'm right
17:41:07 <int-e> 18:40:52 <quintopia> but i'm right
17:41:15 <int-e> looks like center to me, leaning to the left.
17:41:28 <quintopia> puns are great
17:42:01 <b_jonas> 10?"lower case is awesome":got10
17:42:10 <oerjan> `run echo 'CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TIRED OLD MEMES' >wisdom/'caps lock'
17:42:13 <HackEgo> No output.
17:43:00 <int-e> Yes. Caps-lock is perfect for those Shakespeare quotes.
17:43:54 <quintopia> WHAT? WITH MY TONGUE IN YOUR TALE?
17:44:23 <quintopia> this phone has a caps lock key
17:45:43 <int-e> Is it for shouting at the callee without raising your voice?
17:46:43 <quintopia> i don't know
17:46:47 <quintopia> i never use it
17:51:36 <oerjan> `run quote ' '
17:51:38 <HackEgo> 3) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 4) <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ 6) <Quas_NaArt> His body should be given to science. <GKennethR> He's alive :P <GreenReaper> Even so. \ 7)
17:52:04 <oerjan> Gregor: yay works
17:53:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh).
17:57:45 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:21:13 <boily> ah, good to see people enjoy cryptophytology → http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/344/3/e/chich_vin_wen_daajnaa_shela_by_jayelinda-d6xf64i.png
18:23:35 -!- Timwi has joined.
18:24:08 <boily> good aftimwirnoon.
18:47:53 <boily> well, yes. what would it be otherwise?
18:49:26 <int-e> no, political correctness has distinguished itself and reached a level that few people comprehend.
18:59:53 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
19:02:02 <kmc> :3
19:18:36 <quintopia> yay timwi is here
19:22:12 -!- Slereah has joined.
19:22:47 <Bike> huh, a plant editor, that's quite something boily
19:24:02 <quintopia> boily: i don't think that translates to english?
19:24:36 <boily> some day, we'll have pictures in the PDF.
19:24:55 <Bike> `quote amazon
19:24:56 <HackEgo> 795) <kmc> the other day I bought a recycling can from amazon <kmc> it came in a cardboard box <kmc> i took the can out of the box, broke down the box, and put it in the can <kmc> it was amazing \ 1026) <Bike> http://www.amazon.com/Someone-Cuttlefish-Shapeshifter-Erotica-ebook/dp/B0087PTMW2 i hope you know this is going to /fuck up/ my amazon re
19:25:01 <Bike> first place to have a picture
19:25:03 <boily> quintopia: no, it comes from /r/conlangs
19:25:08 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:26:15 <kmc> https://twitter.com/phil_torres/status/410404244554924033 fungus growing out of a fly
19:26:44 <kmc> could be cordyceps / ophiocordyceps
19:27:43 <boily> are there any other grow-on-something-that-it-shouldn't-grow-on fungi out there than cordyceps?
19:27:56 <kmc> who are you to say what a fungus should grow on, man
19:28:01 <quintopia> isn't that an entirely subjective question?
19:28:34 <kmc> i saw a photo from someone who was growing mushrooms on their desk and they kinda forgot about it and the mushroom started eating the wooden desk too
19:28:38 <quintopia> fungus shouldn't grow on algaes, ergo lichen fits your description, etc.
19:29:07 <Bike> boily: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Parasitic_fungi enjoy
19:29:15 <boily> not gonna click.
19:29:33 <Bike> of course most of them are on plants
19:29:33 <boily> I will remain sane and spiritually pure.
19:29:43 <Bike> though you also get eg pseudogymnoascus destructans.
19:30:10 <Bike> Regarding etymology, "destructans" means "destroying".[1]
19:30:11 <douglass_> I read about a case of Schizophyllum commune (normally a small wood-digesting shelf fungus) growing out of someone's nose.
19:30:18 <kmc> D:
19:30:33 <kmc> fungot: would you ever do that
19:30:34 <fungot> kmc: whereas they really seem to know about so you can choose
19:31:13 <Bike> Malassezia (formerly known as Pityrosporum) is a genus of fungi. Malassezia is naturally found on the skin surfaces of many animals, including humans.
19:31:30 <boily> fungot: who are they, you corrupted bot?
19:31:30 <fungot> boily: what's a decent way to manage your own stack.
19:32:12 <FireFly> fungot: aren't you, like, stack-based?
19:32:12 <fungot> FireFly: darn mzscheme won't compile out of portage, let me lisppaste it
19:47:47 -!- impomatic has joined.
19:47:59 -!- Timwi has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:55:36 <olsner> `? asdfasdf
19:55:38 <HackEgo> asdfasdf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:56:10 <quintopia> and then timwi leaves without ever saying a word
19:56:20 <Bike> rip
19:58:00 <boily> let's have a random word in his memory...
19:58:02 <boily> ~fortune
19:58:02 <metasepia> "It follows that any commander in chief who undertakes to carry out a plan
19:58:02 <metasepia> which he considers defective is at fault; he must put forth his reasons,
19:58:02 <metasepia> insist of the plan being changed, and finally tender his resignation rather
19:58:02 <metasepia> than be the instrument of his army's downfall."
19:58:02 <metasepia> -- Napoleon, "Military Maxims and Thought"
20:00:00 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:00:58 <olsner> "While scuba diving, he encounters a trio of cuttlefish that turn out to be much more than they seem: they're shapeshifters, and they want Paul for their own!"
20:01:34 * boily shields metasepia from the bad influence that is olsner
20:02:02 <olsner> the reviews are pretty funny too (but unfortunately they're obviously jokes)
20:04:43 <olsner> metasepia: if you're a gay shapeshifter cuttlefish, that's totally fine btw
20:05:07 <ion> 20 € exceeded by selling Steam cards.
20:06:49 -!- impomatic has joined.
20:12:30 <olsner> huh, schizophyllum commune has 28000 sexes
20:13:28 <boily> fungot: which gender do you identify with?
20:13:29 <fungot> boily: get to da fnord ov god." would've been a near perfect machine :)
20:13:55 <boily> fungot is a fnordovgodsexual.
20:13:55 <fungot> boily: ' i miss you at times, there is a lot of
20:14:25 <boily> fungot: glad to hear I'm of a certain appeal to you, but I don't swing that way. (besides, my girlfriend would kill me, which is terrible.)
20:14:25 <fungot> boily: i'm going to extend them to support other forums as well?
20:14:57 <boily> fungot: you're going to go and disrupt other places on the intarwebs?
20:14:57 <fungot> boily: no, only the player character does that. fnord fnord fnord
20:15:18 <boily> fungot: aaaah, so you're an NPC after all. I like swords I like swords I like swords.
20:16:30 <Bike> times are tough
20:25:34 <olsner> fungot: who's the player character?
20:25:35 <fungot> olsner: are you evaluting arbitary code? iirc someone got it workign with append like this
20:25:57 <shachaf> fungot: i am arbitrary code
20:25:57 <fungot> shachaf: how do i make it scrollable? :p
20:26:47 -!- variable has changed nick to trout.
20:28:17 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:29:08 -!- carado has joined.
20:31:10 * boily scrolls shachaf
20:32:17 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.).
20:36:04 <Bike> anyone used http://www.tagsistant.net/? or something like it?
20:41:07 <olsner> is the hobbit tobacco from lord of the rings marijuana/drugz?
20:43:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:46:41 -!- Slereah has quit.
20:47:15 <douglass_> Wikipedia says Tolkein said it was probably a variety of Nicotiana.
20:47:32 -!- heroux has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:48:08 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
20:49:14 <kmc> tomacco?
20:52:12 <boily> long live solanaceæ!
20:53:01 -!- heroux has joined.
20:54:40 <kmc> it has come to my attention that in JavaScript ["1", "2", "3"].map(parseInt) => [1, NaN, NaN]
20:54:43 <kmc> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/262427/javascript-arraymap-and-parseint
20:55:46 <Bike> parseInt has a weird interface, then
20:56:14 <olsner> parseInt is pretty normal, I think map is the problem here
20:56:35 <Bike> oh oops i read it as taking the radix as the first argument.
20:56:54 <kmc> the problem is that map provides the index as a second argument, and parseInt will use that as the radix
20:57:59 <mroman_> my intuition says: "That's probably a bug"
20:59:14 <mroman_> callback is invoked with three arguments: the value of the element, the index of the element, and the Array object being traversed."
20:59:17 <mroman_> ic
20:59:54 <mroman_> sooo
20:59:59 <boily> I just upgraded to firefox 26. it disabled pentadactyl because apparently it's not compatible. but it's still active, and working. I am disturbed.
21:00:08 <mroman_> calling a function in javascript with more parameters is ok then?
21:00:41 <olsner> I think any number of parameters is fine - extra ones are ignored, missing ones become null/undefined/NaN
21:00:52 <kmc> olsner: just 'undefined' i think
21:00:56 <boily> calling a function in javascript with more parameters is perfectly fine. think MATLAB when doing javascript, and everything gets dumped into the magic variable 'arguments'.
21:01:18 <olsner> kmc: I don't know the difference :D
21:01:23 <Bike> i don't want to think about matlb
21:01:41 <kmc> i forget why null and undefined both exist
21:02:21 <mroman_> yeah
21:02:26 <mroman_> they become undefined
21:02:42 <mroman_> That's what I used in my creepy js-functional-library to achieve currying
21:03:21 <boily> Bike: matlab is good for you. think of matlab. it will help you live a better life. matlab is your friiiieeend...
21:03:34 <kmc> matlab is your new bicycle
21:04:18 <mroman_> In case I wan't to write var average = $$_(sum, div, length);
21:04:55 <mroman_> var rle = $c(map(pairWith(head,length)),group);
21:04:58 <mroman_> and that.
21:05:40 <mroman_> where $c is actually haskell's (.)
21:07:29 <mroman_> http://mroman.ch/cgi/jlude/ <- in case anyone wants to laugh at me
21:08:18 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
21:09:16 <doesthiswork> you guys really helped me with my linguistic presentation
21:12:22 <doesthiswork> for class
21:16:40 <boily> mroman_: that library. it is interesting.
21:17:05 <Bike> needs more caterwaul
21:20:49 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
21:21:42 <mroman_> boily: Yeah. Wrote it in first semester
21:21:49 <mroman_> during finance lectures
21:21:58 <mroman_> Because those were boring
21:22:39 <mroman_> Most of my stuff was written during boring lectures
21:24:11 <boily> I was trying to learn Haskell during boring lectures. with basic knowledge, I achieved the fastest crash I ever seen.
21:24:22 <mroman_> crash?
21:24:34 <boily> trying to plot dynamic systems and other fractals. 4 GB of RAM gobbled in 2 seconds flat.
21:24:35 <mrhmouse> fastest?
21:24:37 <mroman_> I learnt Haskell with uhm...
21:24:37 <Bike> was it a segfault or something
21:24:39 <Bike> aw
21:24:55 <mroman_> when I was 16-17 years I guess
21:25:44 <mroman_> but I obviously haven't used it for serious stuff yet
21:27:21 <mroman_> I used to code stuff in Haskell during my apprenticeship
21:27:27 <mroman_> not officially of course ;)
21:27:41 <mrhmouse> kmc: null == explicit defined as "no value". undefined == not defined at all
21:28:19 <boily> sadly there aren't any official haskell jobs in Montréal afaik :(
21:28:24 <mrhmouse> var foo = { bar: null }; foo.bar /* => null */; foo.baz /* => undefined */;
21:29:51 <mroman_> but lately I spend my time during lectures on 10fastfingers.com
21:30:08 <mroman_> 121WPM is my record so far.
21:30:31 <mroman_> It's however not yet fast enough to write down human speech
21:30:42 <elliott> mroman_: var foo = { bar: undefined }; "bar" in foo /* => ? */
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21:31:24 <mroman_> I don't like that mrhmouse has the same initial letters as me
21:31:38 <elliott> *mrhmouse:
21:31:38 <mroman_> It seems to confuse some people ;)
21:31:51 <mrhmouse> elliott: I think you meant me. You'd use `typeof foo.bar === undefined`, and it would return true methinks
21:32:05 <mrhmouse> elliott: setting a key to undefined is the same as deleting a key iirc
21:32:15 <elliott> mrhmouse: is "in" deprecated for some reason?
21:32:58 <mrhmouse> elliott: nope. for some reason I'm remember CoffeeScript's "in"..
21:33:02 <mroman_> boily: I assume there probably are only about a dozen haskell jobs world-wide
21:33:25 <mroman_> on an unrelated note I somehow have developped interest in modell driven development
21:33:32 <mrhmouse> elliott: now you have me curious whether foo.bar = undefined and delete foo.bar are equivalent
21:33:42 <elliott> "bar" in {}
21:33:42 <elliott> false
21:33:42 <elliott> "bar" in {bar:undefined}
21:33:43 <elliott> true
21:33:58 <mrhmouse> elliott: could you try with delete foo.bar, since you're at it?
21:34:00 <elliott> it looks like undefined isn't quite "not defined at all" in the strictest sense, then, because I'd expect these to both be "false" in that case
21:34:19 <elliott> var foo = {bar:123}; delete foo.bar; "bar" in foo
21:34:20 <elliott> false
21:34:25 <mrhmouse> elliott: it may still exist in the object's keys, but its value is undefined
21:34:30 <mroman_> And I think I should be able to easily create some meta-modells for most esotering programming languages
21:34:37 <mroman_> *esoteric
21:34:41 <elliott> mrhmouse: isn't that what null would mean? :)
21:35:13 <mrhmouse> elliott: not necessarily. null !== undefined.. null != undefined might be true, though, I can't recall
21:35:22 <Bike> i don't like this.
21:35:43 <mrhmouse> curse weak equality operators
21:36:02 <mroman_> There should be an esolang which has undefined, null, nil, none and void at the same time .
21:36:07 <mroman_> oh
21:36:09 <kmc> elliott: 'in' walks the prototype chain and so is sometimes not what you want
21:36:13 <mroman_> and don't forget Nothing
21:36:17 <kmc> so people use .hasOwnProperty() instead
21:36:27 <kmc> and jslint will yell at you for using "in" ever because the author is a hardass ;P
21:36:45 <elliott> mrhmouse: undefined isn't an identical object to null, I agree, but I'm not convinced they really have meaningfully distinct semantics
21:36:52 <Bike> mroman_: and bottom.
21:37:05 <elliott> mrhmouse: you can't use "undefined" as the result of a "lookup key in object" procedure to mean "not present", because then you get the same results for {} and {bar: undefined}, for instance
21:37:26 <mrhmouse> elliott: I'm not convinced either, now
21:37:29 <elliott> which is the same problem you'd have using null for this purpose, and what I'd expect to differ if undefined meant "not defined at all"
21:38:03 <elliott> heh, I guess if it really did work like how it could, new Array(1, undefined, 3) would create a sparse array
21:38:05 <Bike> i'm convinced this is crazy-ass bullshit if that helps
21:38:07 <mrhmouse> elliott: the only place I ever use undefined vs null is in function arguments, with typeof, to see if e.g. a caller dropped the final argument
21:39:24 <mrhmouse> but even then, you could check the number of arguments...
21:39:32 <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom
21:39:41 <Bike> ass is an urban legend
21:40:28 <mrhmouse> can somebody `quote that, please? I don't know `quote's argument syntax
21:40:36 <mroman_> My religion states that last [1..] == last [2..] is true.
21:41:00 <elliott> well, _|_ is denotationally equal to _|_
21:41:07 <elliott> of course if you mean the in-language (==) there then that doesn't apply
21:41:17 <Bike> weak!
21:41:29 <elliott> mrhmouse: `addquote ...
21:41:55 <Bike> incomputable equality predicates is the foundation of this country
21:41:57 <Bike> are
21:41:58 <Bike> both!
21:42:13 <mroman_> mrhmouse: You could also do if(x === undefined)
21:42:23 <mrhmouse> `addquote Bike: ass is an urban legend
21:42:26 <HackEgo> 1144) Bike: ass is an urban legend
21:42:36 <mrhmouse> mroman_: that's what I was referring to earlier :)
21:42:47 <mroman_> Oh. My bad
21:42:49 <Phantom_Hoover> `delquote 1144
21:42:53 <HackEgo> ​*poof* Bike: ass is an urban legend
21:42:58 <Phantom_Hoover> `addquote <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom
21:42:58 <Phantom_Hoover> <Bike> ass is an urban legend
21:43:01 <Phantom_Hoover> fuck
21:43:02 <HackEgo> 1144) <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom
21:43:03 <Phantom_Hoover> `delquote 1144
21:43:08 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom
21:43:14 <Phantom_Hoover> `addquote <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom <Bike> ass is an urban legend
21:43:18 <HackEgo> 1144) <mroman_> Bike: I refuse to believe in bottom <Bike> ass is an urban legend
21:43:39 <mrhmouse> Phantom_Hoover: thanks
21:44:45 <kmc> i believe in a thing called love
21:44:48 <kmc> also ass
21:45:32 <boily> ...
21:46:54 <boily> `? mroman
21:46:56 <HackEgo> mroman? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:47:28 <mroman_> ?
21:48:10 <boily> you have a quote. you need a wisdom entry
21:48:28 <mroman_> A what?
21:48:46 <olsner> `? wisdom
21:48:48 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
21:49:02 <boily> `? olsner
21:49:04 <HackEgo> olsner seems to exist at least.
21:49:10 <boily> mroman_: something like that ↑
21:49:24 <Phantom_Hoover> `? ørjan
21:49:26 <HackEgo> ​Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers.
21:49:35 <mroman_> `? boily
21:49:37 <HackEgo> boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser, and a Man Eating Chicken.
21:49:48 <Phantom_Hoover> `? cpressey
21:49:50 <HackEgo> cpressey invented the esolang, the pipe cleaner and the electrical mousse.
21:50:55 <mroman_> So...
21:50:59 <mroman_> a description of me?
21:51:57 <boily> pretty much. it usually comes from someone else, and gets mangled by other esötericians, and then the original meaning gets lost in the Mists of the Chännel.
21:52:46 <mroman_> There isn't much positive stuff to say about me anyway.
21:53:27 <Bike> also you have an underscore, that can't be tolerated
21:54:13 -!- mroman_ has changed nick to mroman.
21:54:18 <boily> Bike: but Phantom_Hoover is underscorefull! and he is tolerated!
21:54:30 <Bike> that's like, different, man.
21:54:41 <mroman> There you go
21:56:09 <boily> Bike: your westcoastness is shining, eh?
21:56:15 <Bike> eh.
21:58:09 -!- conehead has joined.
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21:59:07 <mroman> `? mroman hu
21:59:09 <HackEgo> mroman hu? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:59:11 <mroman> `? mroman
21:59:13 <HackEgo> mroman? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:59:14 <mroman> hm
21:59:16 <mroman> `help
21:59:16 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
21:59:25 <mroman> `?
21:59:26 <HackEgo> ​? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:59:31 <mroman> `help ?
21:59:31 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
22:01:51 <mroman> `ls
22:01:52 <HackEgo> ​- \ bdsmreclist \ bi \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ file \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ mind \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ this \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf \ ,}wolfram
22:02:00 <mroman> `ls wisdom
22:02:01 <HackEgo> As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead.
22:02:22 <mroman> `echo hu > wisdom/mroman
22:02:23 <HackEgo> hu > wisdom/mroman
22:02:28 <mroman> `? mroman
22:02:28 <Bike> mroman: friendly reminder that you can explore in /msg
22:02:30 <HackEgo> mroman? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:02:38 <mroman> Yeah
22:02:45 <Bike> mroman: you need to use `run to use shell stuff
22:02:53 <Bike> `run echo hu > wisdom/mroman
22:02:57 <HackEgo> No output.
22:02:58 <Bike> `? mroman
22:03:00 <HackEgo> hu
22:03:09 <mroman> ^- that's why I don't run it in /query
22:03:22 <mroman> I just assume somebody gets annoyed and help me :)
22:03:28 <mroman> *helps
22:03:34 <Bike> well, you could have run it in query and then asked why it didn't do what you thought.
22:04:20 <shachaf> `? Bike
22:04:22 <boily> mroman: if you want to abuse and explore, feel free to ~metar and ~duck :D
22:04:23 <HackEgo> Bike is from Luxembourg.
22:04:35 <shachaf> Bike: is that true
22:04:38 <Bike> yeah
22:04:52 <olsner> ~metar bike
22:04:52 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
22:04:59 <olsner> ~metar duck
22:04:59 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
22:05:17 <FireFly> ~metar BIKE
22:05:18 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
22:05:45 <shachaf> ~duck duck
22:05:45 <metasepia> duck definition: any of various swimming birds (family Anatidae, the duck family) in which the neck and legs are short, the feet typically webbed, the bill often broad and flat, and the sexes usually different from each other in plumage.
22:05:58 <FireFly> ~duck ddg
22:05:58 <metasepia> DDG may refer to: DDG-1000, a 21st century United States Navy ship class.
22:06:58 <mrhmouse> ~duck recursive
22:06:58 <metasepia> recursive definition: of, relating to, or involving recursion.
22:07:06 <Bike> hm, i would have said 'waterfowl' instead of 'swimming bird'
22:07:27 <olsner> ~duck recursion
22:07:27 <metasepia> recursion definition: return.
22:07:34 <Bike> deep.
22:16:21 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:17:59 <kmc> i installed binutils-gold and now i can't reconfigure my window manager
22:18:34 <quintopia> ~metar KTHX
22:18:34 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
22:18:49 <mrhmouse> kmc: what's your wm?
22:19:05 <quintopia> ~metar OMFG
22:19:05 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
22:19:21 <kmc> xmonad
22:19:22 <quintopia> ~metar DOGE
22:19:22 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
22:19:26 <quintopia> sad day
22:19:42 <kmc> http://www.gcmap.com/search?Q=DOGE&EL=DOGE&ET=Fix+location&P=DOGE
22:20:02 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PAD THAI CHICKEN!).
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22:21:41 <olsner> kmc: iirc binutils-gold is just a "symlink ld to ld.gold" package, I think there's a -fuse-ld=gold you can use to ask for gold specifically
22:22:13 <kmc> yeah
22:23:10 <quintopia> byebye metasepia
22:24:57 <mrhmouse> quintopia: don't worry, ruddy is a drop-in replacement for all your metasepia needs
22:25:01 <ruddy> ​replacement `unicode don't worry, don't worry, the don't worry, you as it's not the first time. rage!!! is a syntax replacement for python needs more caterwaul
22:25:21 <kmc> rage!!! is a syntax replacement for python
22:25:27 <kmc> is that like !!!Batch
22:25:33 <Bike> or Radixal!!!
22:27:10 <olsner> hmm, three !s? too few, I think
22:27:32 <olsner> yes, it's spelled Radixal!!!!
22:27:36 <Bike> oh no
22:28:03 <shachaf> Please Note The Following !!!Batch Interpreter Written In Batch Is Now InActive However You Are Free To Modifiy It
22:28:12 <shachaf> wow, even in the middle of a word
22:28:17 <shachaf> no mercy
22:29:51 <Bike> "#The Next Set Of Code Works On Capital Lettering :D Its Very Easy To Make A Capital By Adding + To The Code" i see
22:30:50 <Bike> is this just a unary coding of some characters.
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23:04:17 <oerjan> @tell <boily> I will remain sane and spiritually pure. <-- and self-deluded, naturally.
23:04:18 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:05:24 <shachaf> uh
23:05:33 <shachaf> @ask <oerjan> does this work
23:05:33 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:05:41 <oerjan> @messages-lewd
23:05:41 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
23:05:48 <oerjan> shachaf: no
23:06:29 <oerjan> int-e: you know, stripping the <>'s off @ask/@tell nicks _would_ probably help.
23:06:40 <shachaf> @tell oerjan: At least this works.
23:06:40 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:08:01 <oerjan> @messages-lied
23:08:01 <lambdabot> shachaf said 1m 21s ago: At least this works.
23:08:20 <oerjan> ...
23:08:25 * oerjan gets the point.
23:08:34 <oerjan> @tell boily I will remain sane and spiritually pure. <-- and self-deluded, naturally.
23:08:34 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:08:57 <shachaf> Might've been a good idea to add the <boily> back in.
23:09:03 <shachaf> Oh well.
23:09:09 <oerjan> oh right
23:09:38 * oerjan has the whatchamacallit of a goldfish.
23:10:14 <shachaf> Gills?
23:10:17 <olsner> fins?
23:10:36 <oerjan> MAYBE, I DON'T REMEMBER
23:11:56 * oerjan actually couldn't remember the word he wanted for "whatchamacallit" btw. no, it wasn't actually "memory".
23:12:20 <olsner> recall? attention span?
23:12:27 * oerjan actually uses "actually" a lot.
23:12:44 <oerjan> maybe it was attention span.
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23:43:17 <FreeFull> oerjan: thingamajig?
23:47:01 <oerjan> FreeFull: no, that wasn't it hth
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