←2014-02-11 2014-02-12 2014-02-13→ ↑2014 ↑all
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00:13:37 <quintopia> oerjan: boily
00:14:30 <quintopia> oerjan: do you know if it's to convert all tag systems into a form where no production produces more than two symbols?
00:21:00 <oerjan> i think you accidentally a lot
00:23:18 <oerjan> i shall assume the missing word is "evil", in which case the answer is "maybe".
00:24:31 <oerjan> oh hm
00:24:56 <oerjan> i don't know about the question you are trying to ask.
00:25:23 <oerjan> hm...
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00:27:22 <oerjan> quintopia: BOO!
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00:39:51 <quintopia> oerjan: wow. i typed out every word in that sentence, i'm sure of it. lag!
00:40:14 <oerjan> lag shouldn't work that way.
00:40:27 <quintopia> it does with mosh sometimes
00:40:30 <oerjan> they invented tcp for a reason, you know.
00:40:34 <quintopia> mosh uses udp
00:40:49 <Sgeo> The Kindle Paperwhite keyboard sucks
00:40:54 <quintopia> bbl
00:41:16 <kmc> mosh won't drop / reorder keystrokes though
00:41:20 <kmc> it has its own reliable transport on top of udp
00:41:24 <oerjan> tell the mosh people they'd better have this fixed in good time before i take over the world, or they'll be SORRY.
00:41:44 <Sgeo> Does mosh client work well in cygwin on Windows yet??
00:42:25 <oerjan> quintopia: if you are asking this as an intermediate stage for resPairate-2, i'm not sure that's a good idea.
00:42:53 <oerjan> it seems to me that tag systems are too rigid to make that convenient.
00:46:09 * oerjan wonders if quintopia is lagged by several minutes.
00:46:38 <oerjan> well, not at the /ping level
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00:50:28 <oerjan> Sgeo: Guest65497: you were just deregistered from Agora hth
00:51:09 <Sgeo> Thanks
00:51:28 <Sgeo> I was planning on reading the ruleset too
00:51:29 <Sgeo> :/
00:51:47 <oerjan> you can reregister, i believe.
00:54:30 <Taneb> How're things going
00:55:17 <oerjan> well there have been some major simplifications. also there's a new game with complex number scores, and piracy.
00:55:36 * oerjan is just watching.
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01:20:07 <kmc> "I finally heard what happened to our building. Someone was playing ski-ball in an office and hit a sprinkler"
01:21:19 <Taneb> :D
01:21:48 <kmc> stupid, stupid industry
01:23:16 <Taneb> That reminds me
01:23:27 <Taneb> I kind of want to do some sort of summer internship this summer
01:26:10 <Taneb> But I have no idea where to look :/
01:26:13 <quintopia> oerjan: well what is a good place to start then? (i'm also asking it in case it makes it possible to have smaller UTMs)
01:27:19 <Bike> i found out i need two letters of rec for any good internship so i'm p. doomed
01:27:52 <Bike> does taneb have recommendations
01:28:13 <Taneb> Bike, I... probably could get some
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01:28:40 <quintopia> Dear Bike: Internships are good for experience. I recommend you get some. Love, Quintopia
01:29:04 <oerjan> quintopia: i was thinking you can make an active tag that takes one cycle to add each prepended tag
01:31:54 <Bike> i guess i could use an irrelevant one
01:32:16 <Bike> probably can't ask my boss for one soon enough to get the one that looked really interesting, sigh
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01:33:22 <oerjan> and all passive tags have self-preservation prefixes
01:34:23 <quintopia> oerjan: and how do you stop it when it's done?
01:34:48 <Taneb> So where is a good start for looking for internships
01:35:21 <oerjan> quintopia: by deleting the remainder...
01:35:35 <oerjan> and the necessary following tags, naturally
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01:37:27 <oerjan> an active tag would have something like the format <header> n 2 ...<small number of alphabets enough for a single cycle> n 2
01:37:45 <Bike> Taneb: bulletin boards at your school
01:37:46 <oerjan> or wait
01:38:16 <oerjan> an active tag would have something like the format <header> <alphs> n 2 <alphs> n 2
01:38:38 <kmc> Bike: I think when you're still a student you don't need super relevant recs
01:38:55 <oerjan> then the header can use the first set to prepend whatever, and to produce the header for the next cycle
01:39:25 <oerjan> while the second set gets reduplicated each cycle
01:39:41 <Bike> kmc: i'd be applying for an NSF thing rather than 'just an internship' though, you get thousands in room and board and shit like that
01:39:44 <kmc> oh
01:39:49 <Bike> i'm just antsy about applying for things probably
01:40:00 <kmc> in that case though there are probably a lot of people around who've done it before and can help you
01:40:12 <oerjan> the prepended stuff can probably take a cycle to settle down into the right format too.
01:41:39 <oerjan> since it gets "run" before the next step of the active one.
01:42:48 <quintopia> so the active one prepends a bunch of copies?
01:43:18 <quintopia> or one at a time?
01:43:25 <oerjan> one per cycle
01:43:47 <oerjan> so that you don't need to more than double stuff per cycle
01:46:23 <oerjan> and you get some extra slack from the extra cycle for the prepended tag representation.
01:47:20 <quintopia> so you would prend n copies of the 'double this symbol' tag, and then each on executes one per cycle?
01:48:29 <oerjan> that got garbled...
01:49:05 <quintopia> prend=prepend
01:49:08 <quintopia> on=one
01:49:45 <oerjan> i don't understand what you mean.
01:50:08 <quintopia> i don't understand what you mean, so it sounds fair
01:50:48 <oerjan> hm two alphabet copies per <alph> might be enough.
01:51:19 <oerjan> the first gets passed to the prepended ... oh hm.
01:51:21 <quintopia> what is <header> supposed to do?
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01:52:14 <oerjan> i think we need 3, this still needs to use ais523's misalignment trick.
01:53:45 <oerjan> because it's the simplest way to pass to arbitrary code _after_ you've copied the alphabet.
01:55:40 <oerjan> <header> will prepend a proto-header for the prepended tag, then delete to a spot inside the first alphabet copy; this spot then doubles a misaligned alphabet for the prepended tag to use, after which ... hm maybe 2 is enough anyway.
01:56:42 <oerjan> the part of the alphabet _after_ the cutoff will prepare the header for the next cycle of the active tag.
01:59:05 * oerjan has a slight headache, which isn't helping.
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02:01:45 <quintopia> 'will prepend a proto-header for the prepended tag' this doesn't seem very rigorously stated. i'll wait until your headache goes away :P
02:03:48 <oerjan> well the proto-header's job would be to mangle the prepended tag into its final passive form on the next cycle.
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03:39:00 <Sgeo> The dice server is still up?
03:39:01 <Sgeo> o.O
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03:46:08 <kmc> which one
03:47:14 <oerjan> nomic.net, presumably
03:48:52 <kmc> i'm glad the responses are PGP encrypted
03:49:24 <kmc> er, signed
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03:58:59 <oerjan> (this has come up because the new agora speaker has made a policy to select judges randomly from the candidates)
04:03:10 <kmc> SatoshiDice uses a random number generation procedure which is retrospectively verifiable
04:05:30 <kmc> they have published a committment to a HMAC key for each of the next many days, using Bitcoin as a timestamping service
04:06:02 <kmc> every day they reveal the previous day's key and you can verify that it matches the committment
04:06:49 <kmc> and the randomness for bets is generated by HMACing some public information about the bet
04:07:29 <kmc> but this might not work for games where some rolls need to remain secret for a long time
04:10:31 <Sgeo> "Some consider it to be DDoS attack against the Bitcoin network since it is bypassing the built-in anti-DDoS features of Bitcoin (transaction fees)."
04:13:18 <kmc> how does it circument fees
04:23:36 <Bike> games? what kind of games we talkin here
04:29:39 <kmc> the most dangerous game
04:30:05 <copumpkin> what?
04:30:40 <copumpkin> transaction fees are considered an anti-DDOS mechanism?
04:31:06 <kmc> it seems that SD requires bets to have a fee, which makes them go through quickly, and could be considered an aggressive move of some kind, but doesn't seem at all like "bypassing" the mechanism
04:31:29 <kmc> it's not so much "bypassing" as "using it exactly as intended"
04:31:32 <copumpkin> yeah
04:31:42 <kmc> a fine distinction
04:31:46 <copumpkin> people were annoyed when it started taking up half the volume of transactions
04:31:58 <copumpkin> but that's about it
04:39:22 <Bike> see i'm just imaginign someone using this for D&D
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05:51:14 <kmc> `dis86 48c7042500004000efbead0b
05:51:15 <HackEgo> mov qword [0x400000], 0xbadbeef;
05:58:21 <kmc> well i published the thing http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2014/02/x86-is-turing-complete-with-no-registers.html
05:59:24 <kmc> Slereah: ^ i said i would send you a link
05:59:29 <kmc> probably said that to other people but i forgot
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06:15:51 <pikhq> kmc: Neat.
06:21:19 <pikhq> Somehow I suspect the branch predictor isn't that fond of this.
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06:59:20 <kmc> heh
06:59:38 <kmc> Linux's perf can measure that...
06:59:42 <kmc> I don't have it working on this machine though
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07:37:02 <kmc> oh jeez https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/Security/Conceptual/cryptoservices/RandomNumberGenerationAPIs/RandomNumberGenerationAPIs.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40011172-CH12-SW1
07:37:10 <shachaf> kmc: i like how you link to esolangs.org for Turing-complete
07:37:10 <kmc> spot the bug in this security critical code example
07:37:14 <kmc> thx shachaf
07:37:25 <shachaf> probably a better discussion of the relevant issues for this sort of thing
07:37:46 <kmc> I think that's what I concluded, yeah
07:40:52 <Bike> what's the bug
07:43:09 <ais523> kmc: gah, that's bad
07:43:25 <ais523> I couldn't spot it for ages, but I was reading the code top to bottom, and it's in the last nontrivial line
07:43:46 <kmc> yeah
07:44:03 <ais523> wait, no, I thought the shift was wrong, but now I'm not sure it is
07:44:14 <ais523> oh yes, it is
07:44:21 <kmc> I think (c << (8 * i)) gets promoted to int which actually makes the whole thing UB
07:44:23 <ais523> the left operand to the shift's a uint8_t
07:44:27 <ais523> and the right hand side's a plain int
07:44:28 <kmc> but at the minimum, it won't get promoted above unsigned int
07:44:38 <ais523> so you can't guarantee that any shifts larger than 24 work correctly
07:45:04 <ais523> needs a cast to uint64_t on c
07:45:24 <b_jonas> kmc: re that post you linked to, you say "Many RISC architectures also allow" indirect jump
07:45:44 <b_jonas> kmc: I don't think that's a risc thing, the 6502 also has an indirect jump instruction
07:45:48 <kmc> is shifting a signed int by more than the number of bits UB?
07:46:00 <kmc> b_jonas: right, I didn't mean it's exclusively a RISC thing, just that it's not a particular x86 CISC weirdness
07:47:01 <ais523> kmc: yes, and shifting it by 31 would produce the wrong result
07:47:09 <fizzie> kmc: Shifting any int (signed or unsigned) by more than the number of bits is UB.
07:47:16 <b_jonas> in fact I think that's a really strange instruction in 6502 because it loads has 2 bytes of address in the instruction then loads 2 bytes indirectly using that (though there's a bug when the indirect address lies on a page boundary), and that whole thing executes in just too few clock cycles to be possible on that cpu
07:47:26 <fizzie> kmc: s/more than/more than or equal/
07:47:34 <kmc> fizzie: ouch
07:48:22 <b_jonas> it supposedly runs in 5 clock cycles, which is strange
07:48:37 <fizzie> "If the value of the right operand is negative or is greater than or equal to the width of the promoted left operand, the behavior is undefined." (C11 6.5.7p3)
07:48:51 <kmc> thanks fizzie (what's a good link for C11?)
07:49:02 <kmc> don't tell me you forked over the CHF for an official copy
07:49:06 <b_jonas> but I guess it's possible
07:49:11 <kmc> b_jonas: weird
07:49:17 <kmc> i have heard about that bug, too
07:49:18 <fizzie> kmc: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/n1570.pdf is the latest draft.
07:49:26 <ais523> kmc: n1570.pdf is a draft from just before it was released
07:49:41 <ais523> it's not 100% accurate to C11, but it's pretty close
07:49:45 <fizzie> kmc: There's also an unofficial HTML conversion at http://www.iso-9899.info/n1570.html
07:50:08 <b_jonas> it makes sense afterall, the stuff that takes lots of time in other instructions is adding an index register to a 16-bit absolute address which has to fit AFTER loading the address but BEFORE the actual operation executes
07:50:13 <fizzie> (Can be useful on, say, some mobile device that doesn't cope well with a 701-page pdf.)
07:50:41 <kmc> heh
07:51:18 <kmc> web browser developers like to use "the web platform spec as a single page" as a stress test :)
07:52:01 <fizzie> Also, I strongly suspect bitshifting unsigned ints doesn't have the usual "result is reduced modulo 2^width" rule because that'd complicate the implementation on those many, many systems that do something like "mask shift count to K bits".
07:52:32 <b_jonas> ah, I see
07:52:38 <ais523> fizzie: yes, IIRC that's the normally given rationale for "out of range shifts are UB"
07:52:57 <b_jonas> apparently the indexed 16-bit instructions take 1 cycle more when there's a carry in adding the index. that's clever
07:53:06 <ais523> fwiw, out of range shifts in Verity just give 0 (or possibly produce invalid output), but that's because I only allow shifts by constants
07:55:06 <fizzie> The shift operators also differ from many other binary operators in that the type of the result is determined based on only the left operand, and the type of the right operand is ignored. ("The description of shift operators in K&R suggests that shifting by a long count should force the left operand to be widened to long before being shifted. A more intuitive practice, endorsed by the C89 ...
07:55:12 <fizzie> ... Committee, is that the type of the shift count has no bearing on the type of the result." -- C99 rationale.)
07:55:36 <fizzie> The C11 rationale document seems to be still not done.
07:55:47 <kmc> there's a rationale document separate from the spec?
07:55:56 <fizzie> Yes.
07:56:13 <kmc> i'm imagining this as like "C11: the unauthorized biography"
07:56:17 <fizzie> "Yes, there are plans to update the existing Rationale to include C11. Since it's an informal document, there's no planned ETA, but it's on our to-do list." (from January 31, 2012.)
07:56:17 <ais523> yep, it's unofficial, it's the committee saying "here's why we did things the way we did"
07:56:22 <kmc> tales of wild after-hours cocaine parties on the ISO 9899 committee
07:56:35 <kmc> "fuck you, that's why"
07:56:46 <Bike> "thought it was funny"
07:56:48 <kmc> ☠ UNDEFINED BEHAVIOR ☠
07:56:49 <ais523> probably for much the same reason that many websites have FAQs
07:56:56 <olsner> "after enough drugs it seemed like a good idea, that's why"
07:57:17 <kmc> i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?"
07:57:22 <olsner> "the editor didn't realize it was a joke"
07:57:50 <kmc> speaking of enough drugs, http://junkyardmessiah.tumblr.com/post/76403947862/chaoscontrolled123-luke-and-i-were-looking-at
07:57:54 <fizzie> Incidentally, recently came across this, the committee response is somehow quite amusing: http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_257.htm
07:57:55 <kmc> 600 year old butt-song from hell
07:58:20 <ais523> DRs cost quite a bit of money to file
08:00:13 <fizzie> They do? I've always sort of assumed anyone can go and submit them.
08:00:22 <fizzie> Based on things like http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_404.htm
08:01:13 <ais523> fizzie: anyone can, but they have to pay a bunch of money to do so
08:01:48 <olsner> is "decay" used in the standard for arrays decaying to pointers?
08:02:05 <kmc> fizzie: haha
08:03:18 <fizzie> olsner: No. it's an entirely unofficial term.
08:03:29 <fizzie> Common, though.
08:03:49 <fizzie> (The only instance of the word "decay" in N1570 is that joke.)
08:09:50 <ais523> anyway, I'd say the DR isn't a joke
08:10:00 <ais523> "a joke was left in the standard by mistake" is an actual bug report
08:11:43 <kmc> they have to make it expensive otherwise people will submit DRs like "pls change all the syntax to Lisp", like Rust gets >_>
08:14:05 <Bike> so you're saying that C and Something Awful use the same strategy to deter trolls
08:14:30 <fizzie> It is an actual bug report, sure, but the kind of thing I wouldn't expect a random individual to make, if they had to pay for the privilege.
08:14:48 <fizzie> (I suppose it could be just someone rich enough.)
08:15:06 <kmc> Bike: hahaha
08:15:51 <ais523> most DRs are filed by companies, I think, especially compiler manufacturers
08:16:02 <kmc> as long as you can buy redtext for another committee member
08:19:18 <olsner> maybe they paid for some number of DRs in a year and were running out of time to file them all
08:19:37 <fizzie> Defect report procedures applying to JTC1/SC22/WG14 (the C standards workgroup) seem to be hard to Google for. (Some of the other JTC1 subcommittees have them more obviously in the web.)
08:20:24 <kmc> i wonder if any OS X bitcoin apps used that example code to generate DSA signature nonces
08:20:25 <fizzie> "This [submitting a DR] is supposed to happen through your National Body (a Standard-defining Organization which is itself part of ISO, such as ANSI for the USA), which will formally submit it to JTC1/SC22 or its subsidiary WG14 ("the committee".) -- In less bureaucratic terms, yet quite a bit more efficiently, you can try contact with the convenor of WG14 (who is also allowed to formally ...
08:20:31 <fizzie> ... submit defect report.)"
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08:26:14 <ais523> olsner: remember that Debian OpenSSL issue?
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08:27:11 <fizzie> olsner: It's a terrible shame uint64_t isn't allowed to have any padding bits, otherwise the answer to that question would be "because fread might end up generating a trap representation".
08:28:18 <olsner> does Apple support any architectures that have trap representations anyway?
08:28:34 <olsner> I was thinking about "something something endianness" as another possible explanation
08:28:55 <fizzie> Probably not.
08:29:13 <fizzie> I don't even know of any architectures that have integers with trap representations.
08:30:23 <fizzie> (Whoops, have to go a lunch.)
08:31:22 <kmc> a fried fungot sandwich
08:31:22 <fungot> kmc: or is it just me, or i: yet, you rogue! all about macros, a wonderful!' i am sorry, in particular candidate countries. if the transatlantic relationship, but the parliament has possessed him, yet he talkes well, it's open source
08:34:14 <olsner> fungot: what's your endian?
08:34:14 <fungot> olsner: so, let's say i call them mindless games. if we hit every stupid person, any person going, tough one. if we solve it,...)
08:36:21 * kmc falls asleep
08:37:30 <luserdroog> [noobie-q] fungot is bot, right?
08:37:30 <fungot> luserdroog: to " print" statement should always remember the songs on p2p apps in scheme, besides, was not beyond normal credibility
08:38:13 <Sgeo> Does defender, haste do anything interesting?
08:38:24 <Sgeo> Well, lets you tap the creature when it comes out
08:38:30 <Sgeo> If you have need to
08:38:37 <luserdroog> too much pressure! what do i do?
08:38:49 <ais523> Sgeo: there's a card in Future Sight with defender, haste, and a tap ability
08:38:56 <Bike> remember the songs on p2p apps in steam, duh
08:38:57 <ais523> luserdroog: are you a bot? fungot is
08:38:57 <fungot> ais523:. i'm so kind, even to assholes! anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov anmaster no not markov
08:39:01 <Sgeo> ais523: wwas looking at that
08:39:23 <Sgeo> I should look at Future Sight more closely, it seems almost like an UN-set
08:39:26 <luserdroog> I understood "markov" :)
08:39:52 <luserdroog> mischievous little dwarf!
08:40:14 <olsner> ^style fungot
08:40:14 <fungot> Selected style: fungot (What I've said myself)
08:40:41 <kmc> `relcome luserdroog
08:40:42 <HackEgo> luserdroog: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
08:41:13 <luserdroog> ooo colors!
08:41:23 <Bike> http://unemployedprofessors.com/Index.aspx lol
08:41:31 <ais523> Sgeo: I think the Magic playerbase is split between the people who think Future Sight was the most awesome set ever, and people who don't like it
08:41:36 <ais523> it's quite polarizing
08:41:38 <luserdroog> my language is going nowhere.
08:42:11 <luserdroog> never got into magic.
08:42:21 <luserdroog> my cousins did pokemon
08:42:41 <luserdroog> although yugioh was a far superior cartoon
08:42:58 <ais523> I dislike Magic nowadays
08:43:04 <Sgeo> o.O
08:43:13 <ais523> or rather, I like reading about it, but don't feel much pressure to actually play it, or buy any cards
08:43:46 <Bike> fungot: where did i go wrong
08:43:46 <fungot> Bike: i just wrote :p ( what was i thinking
08:43:56 <Bike> i don't know what i was thinking :(
08:44:22 <luserdroog> I thought it was Zork at first
08:45:09 <luserdroog> Hm "Legend of Zork" would be a fun title.
08:45:40 <luserdroog> In the game-within-a-game you could play zork on virtual telex
08:46:40 <luserdroog> been reading too many programming books, have to make everything recursive!
08:47:07 <luserdroog> or ... shudder ... "inductive"
08:48:19 <Bike> inceptive
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09:10:30 <fizzie> Hm. There was a group of about 30-50 people, with banners and such, out there on the street; they were playing (loudly) the song "They're Taking the Hobbits to Isengard" out of some kind of portable stereo.
09:11:47 <oklopol> sounds like a pretty amenable group
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10:18:07 <Jafet> I thought Isengard was in Sweden
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10:29:41 <fizzie> They could well be taking the hobbits to Sweden.
10:29:53 <Phantom_Hoover> a chilling thought
10:35:48 <fizzie> "Isengard (SE) - Epic Melodic Power Metal from Vikingstad, Sweden."
10:37:09 <Jafet> Is Vikingstad anywhere near Gondor
10:40:56 <fizzie> It seems to be right next to Linköping. Wasn't olsner from there?
10:41:33 <fizzie> "We could not understand the location gondor, sweden. Suggestions: Make sure all street and city names are spelled correctly."
10:44:56 <fizzie> There's a Gondorf near Bitburg, Germany, though.
10:46:37 <fizzie> (Named after Ganondorf, I'm sure.)
10:50:42 <Jafet> https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Vikingstad,+Sweden&daddr=Mordor,+Alkmaar,+Netherlands
10:51:22 <fizzie> One does not simply drive and so on.
10:51:41 <fizzie> "This route has tolls." Oh, I'm sure it does.
10:53:48 <Jafet> “This route crosses through multiple countries.”
10:55:05 <fizzie> "This route has giant spiders guarding Cirith Ungol."
10:56:26 <fizzie> (Well, that wasn't there. But to be fair, they do say "Walking directions are in beta. Use caution – This route may be missing sidewalks, giant spiders or pedestrian paths.")
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14:42:16 <oerjan> `addquote <kmc> i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?"
14:42:17 <HackEgo> 1169) <kmc> i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?"
14:45:17 <oerjan> `help
14:45:17 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
14:45:38 <oerjan> especially the FAQ about HackEgo's recent move.
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15:26:40 * ski idly wonders what "ski-ball" might be
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17:58:53 <quintopia> fizzie: that mordor trip would only take 220 hours walking continuously! you could do it in a month or so!
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17:59:52 <Slereah> quintopia : You have my axe!
18:00:22 <quintopia> in this tiny font with no glasses i read that as sex
18:00:39 <quintopia> i was going to guess male
18:01:12 <Slereah> You are thinking of a different book.
18:01:18 <Slereah> Lord of the Cockring, possibly
18:01:31 <Slereah> Cock of the Ring
18:01:58 <quintopia> snowmageddon part2 seems to be less of a disaster than the first so far. people can learn!
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18:49:24 <olsner> fizzie: I'm not from here, I just happen to live here :)
18:49:35 <olsner> vikingstad is in the middle of nowhere
18:52:17 <fizzie> Well, you're sort of emanating from there at the moment, anyway.
18:52:51 <fizzie> Incidentally, we'll probably stop for a night in Linköping somewhere in June.
18:53:04 <fizzie> So... what's there to see/do there?
18:53:49 <olsner> dunno, I don't really see or do stuff too much
18:54:25 <fizzie> I'll just check Wikipedia, then.
18:55:14 <fizzie> "Linköping offers a wealth of leisure activities to people of all ages. Residents and visitors are able to enjoy art, theatre, history, concerts, markets, festivals and sporting events."
18:55:21 <fizzie> "This article is written like a travel guide rather than an encyclopedic description of the subject. Please help improve it by rewriting it in an encyclopedic style."
18:55:24 <fizzie> You don't say.
18:55:57 <olsner> there's an aviation museum somewhere outside of linköping, some people have found that interesting
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19:01:40 <fizzie> Oh, you're one of those places with a river.
19:01:46 <fizzie> (I've spoken on the topic before.)
19:02:19 <olsner> indeed. (why would you speak about my river?)
19:02:33 <fizzie> Not your river, just cities with rivers and my river-envy.
19:02:48 <fizzie> (There's no river to speak of here.)
19:03:06 <quintopia> why river-envy?
19:03:13 <olsner> if that's your kind of thing you can go on boat rides on the river, through locks and stuff
19:03:16 <fizzie> I don't know, there's just something about rivers.
19:03:31 <quintopia> there's something about river tam
19:05:12 <kmc> does the One Cockring also give you a permanent erection
19:05:23 <kmc> a permanent evil erection?
19:07:58 <kmc> http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Link%C3%B6ping
19:09:29 <kmc> almost every great city has a river or is adjacent to a large body of water
19:11:09 <kmc> or a fungot
19:11:09 <fungot> kmc: that is just a value of type is created containing the syntax for mark if he was really gonna get worse and worse each week, i fnord kara to hold me until i fell over....
19:12:52 <olsner> oh, there's also a lake nearby (10km ish)
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19:21:13 <fizzie> Google Maps has, for some strange reason, Vättern marked as "vattern" (with a lowercase first letter), with "Vättern" under it in smaller type.
19:21:19 <fizzie> Vänern is just "Vänern".
19:21:27 <fizzie> Something must be up with that.
19:22:26 <fizzie> "IT-ceum. Is a computer and computing museum, located in Mjärdevi Science Park where you will find many of Linköping's IT companies. The museum covers both ancient Swedish computers and more current events, such as the demo scene with its realtime multimedia productions. The exhibitions describe both the technical and the social aspects of computing. The museum's signs are both in Swedish ...
19:22:32 <fizzie> ... and in English. Free entry."
19:22:34 <fizzie> Huh.
19:28:06 <olsner> it seems to have moved since that wiki page was written
19:43:58 <fizzie> "However, instead of putting the language [to block Tesla from operating stores in Ohio] on the Senate floor as a standalone bill, the ban was inserted as an amendment to Senate Bill 137--an unrelated bill that required Ohio drivers to move to the left while passing roadside maintenance vehicles."
19:44:05 <fizzie> That's always so sneaky.
19:44:34 <fizzie> I think I remember something very similar from the European Parliament.
19:46:18 <FreeFull> What's a good queue-based language for me to try? And please don't say fueue
19:46:25 <kmc> cool, demoscene stuff in a museum?
19:46:33 <kmc> is that a big deal in sweden as well as finland?
19:47:18 <fizzie> FreeFull: Qdeql?
19:48:21 <olsner> well, still quite small I'd say, but big for being demoscene I guess
19:48:28 <FreeFull> fizzie: Something less tarpitty? Although I suppose I should give Qdeql a try anyway
19:48:48 <FreeFull> Maybe Sceql
19:49:15 <FreeFull> Mmm, nah
19:50:02 <fizzie> Just start going through Category:Queue-based in asciibetical order.
19:51:54 * kmc imagines glorious winters in a snow-covered cabin, spending the sunless days drinking akvavit, frying reindeer sausage over a wood fire, writing MBR demos, and fucking on a big bearskin rug
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19:54:29 <FreeFull> Imagine if the alphabet was named after english letters instead
19:54:31 <FreeFull> It'd be the aybee
19:55:16 <fizzie> kmc: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/59/c4/8d59c48bb992eb030dd6e5766206d18c.jpg was included in the monthly departmental email.
19:55:56 <fizzie> kmc: (Though in all honestly winters here in Southern Finland can be pretty "meh"; like the one we're currently having.)
19:56:03 <kmc> :)
19:58:49 <kmc> this week in San Francisco: 16°C and partly cloudy
19:58:57 <kmc> we're having our worst-ever drought though
19:59:02 <kmc> got a little rain last week but not nearly enough
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20:01:00 <kmc> there's already a "Hack the Drought" hackathon scheduled
20:01:06 <kmc> if that doesn't solve the problem then I don't know what will
20:01:50 <`^_^v> droughts can only be remedied by harnessing the power of node.js + mongodb
20:01:52 <fizzie> This week in Espoo: days around 1-2 °C, nights around -1°C to zero. Lots of fog and slush.
20:06:02 <fizzie> I had this thought I'd take a photo of the university main building every morning, then align them and... well, do some sort of a composite. Maybe just average or use some other aggregate function, or reorder them with a 1D SOM or something and animate. Whatever.
20:06:48 <fizzie> Here's a representative single frame: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140212-tkk.jpg
20:07:23 <kmc> `^_^v understands
20:07:24 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/^_^v: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/^_^v: cannot execute: Permission denied
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20:39:48 <ion> `coins
20:39:50 <HackEgo> hroughcoin datecoin orretuatecoin regopsitzcoin stacoin neurcoin mespuncoin bfercoin anicerynxcoin mecorcoin mourcoin testfribacoin fingpensivecoin gramblincoin parcoin aniscoin cowcoin finicoin anemationcoin twormulacoin
20:40:54 <FireFly> Over here all the snow has melted over the past week; now there's not even any slush left
20:41:20 <FireFly> By this rate we'll have spring in time for the sports break when you typically go north to ski
20:41:27 <FireFly> s/By/At/
20:42:39 <FireFly> `cat bin/coins
20:42:40 <HackEgo> words --eng-1M --esolangs 20 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
20:44:42 <FireFly> `run sed -i 's/20/\${1-&}/' bin/coins; coins
20:44:45 <HackEgo> billecoin eemcoin mancoin fmcoin lobolcoin lockcoin toncoin eturacoin kippingcoin admirilcoin m-codycoin vetcoin bombincoin machelpcoin threkellcoin miniction2coin lewaycoin conveycoin laancoin udacidcoin
20:44:51 <FireFly> `coins 5
20:44:53 <HackEgo> feiffcoin fcrewcoin denteriftycoin epidcoin tgtecoin
20:45:20 <ion> `coins --finnish
20:45:21 <HackEgo> mäßcoin
20:45:51 <nortti> I'm pretty sure finnish does not use 'ß'
20:46:11 <ion> nortti: Perhaps --esolangs does.
20:46:17 <nortti> `coins --swedish 10
20:46:19 <HackEgo> dadecoin nuttcoin geninicoin itetunacoin autopingcoin delacoin ddgeecoin norftendocoin amulacoin spazioncoin
20:55:08 <olsner> who the hell came up with 1 *and a half* stop bit?
20:55:23 <kmc> buh?
20:55:37 <fizzie> 1 was too little, 2 was too much?
20:56:45 <olsner> vt100 defaults to 1.5 stop bits and can't be changed, MESS' verious serial emulation stuff doesn't seem to have code for talking to that
20:56:49 <kmc> When the CCITT… was standardizing ATM, parties from the United States wanted a 64-byte payload…; parties from Europe wanted 32-byte payloads. Most of the European parties eventually came around to the arguments made by the Americans, but France and a few others held out… 48 bytes (plus 5 header bytes = 53) was chosen as a compromise between the two sides."
20:57:02 <kmc> s/^/"/
20:57:09 <ion> :-D
20:59:09 <fizzie> I think I've wondered where the 53 octet frame size comes from.
21:00:39 <olsner> (but note that MESS emulates 1.5 stop bits well enough that the simulated null modem sending 1 stop bit *doesn't* work)
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21:35:38 <ion> http://terrycavanaghgames.com/maverickbird/
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21:42:07 <quintopia> sup
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21:57:01 <int-e> ion: owie. I reached 10, time to give up :)
21:57:07 <ion> nice
21:57:13 <ion> I got fed up at 6
21:58:13 <int-e> so at 10 you get a orange circle described as a "bronze medal"
21:59:01 <quintopia> FreeFull: ResPlicate!!! :D
21:59:26 <quintopia> more tarpitty is better
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22:13:57 <zzo38> How can you command GCC to output all preprocessor macros?
22:15:57 <quintopia> it's not a flappy bird clone is it
22:16:05 <quintopia> worst game
22:16:08 <FreeFull> zzo38: As in, a list of them?
22:16:15 <zzo38> FreeFull: Yes
22:16:18 <FreeFull> No idea
22:19:00 <kmc> `run gcc -dM -E - < /dev/null
22:19:01 <HackEgo> ​#define __DBL_MIN_EXP__ (-1021) \ #define __UINT_LEAST16_MAX__ 65535 \ #define __ATOMIC_ACQUIRE 2 \ #define __FLT_MIN__ 1.17549435082228750797e-38F \ #define __UINT_LEAST8_TYPE__ unsigned char \ #define __INTMAX_C(c) c ## L \ #define __CHAR_BIT__ 8 \ #define __UINT8_MAX__ 255 \ #define __WINT_MAX__ 4294967295U \ #define __ORDER_LITTLE_ENDIAN__ 1
22:26:31 <quintopia> oh it's better than flappy bird. but still just as ridiculously hard. best i can get is 10
22:30:59 <kmc> flappy gcc
22:31:09 <int-e> up down up up down
22:31:32 <int-e> there must be a brainfuck clone in this, somewhere.
22:31:51 <quintopia> there's a brainfuck clone in everything
22:32:00 <kmc> that's how the light gets in
22:33:06 <quintopia> challenge: invent a flappy bird level such that the only way to win is input a sequence corresponding to a particular flappy-bf program at one second intervals
22:34:19 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/YRgK ... done :)
22:34:49 <int-e> Flappyfuck.
22:37:22 <int-e> quintopia: that sounds sort of interesting.
22:39:01 <quintopia> not to me
22:39:03 <quintopia> have fun
22:40:42 <int-e> I'm not sure whether it would be fun.
22:41:31 <fizzie> Kind of funny that it needs to be "- < /dev/null" (or "-x c /dev/null") instead of just "/dev/null".
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22:47:34 <oerjan> <quintopia> fizzie: that mordor trip would only take 220 hours walking continuously! you could do it in a month or so! <-- one does not simply walk into mordor hth
22:48:25 <fizzie> I kinda-sorta alluded to that already.
22:48:42 <fizzie> (Earlier in the logs, I guess.)
22:50:38 <int-e> oerjan: http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=363
22:51:38 <ion> int-e: heh
22:58:27 <int-e> less than 2 minutes till tomorrow, good night.
23:01:45 <ion> 23 hours till tomorrow
23:05:04 <zzo38> oerjan: Perhaps you should fly into, or teleport into, so that they don't expect you.
23:06:45 <oerjan> zzo38: see int-e's link
23:07:55 <zzo38> O, the other one.
23:08:14 <zzo38> No I don't want to load any web browser right now, but maybe later
23:10:38 <kmc> hi zzo38
23:29:08 <oerjan> `cat bin/^_^v
23:29:09 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ echo No comment.
23:29:31 <oerjan> `run chmod +x bin/^_^v
23:29:32 <HackEgo> No output.
23:30:00 <ion> `coins
23:30:02 <HackEgo> rnarycoin 224coin aaicoin snaccoin tifcoin glucoin arambcoin disoroscoin lesunneccoin oftcoin perfcoin prolamicroncoin scolacoin meroscoin thcoin tipsoncoin stalkacoin ximalcoin wikicoin boulacoin
23:30:50 <oerjan> glucoin has few users, but they tend to stick together.
23:31:39 <ion> They also tend to have hyperglycemia.
23:32:15 <oerjan> you don't need to mine stalkacoins, they will find you.
23:33:17 <oerjan> wikicoin _seems_ like a good idea, until you realize anyone can edit your balance.
23:34:07 <oerjan> oftcoin is surprisingly rare.
23:34:37 <oerjan> snaccoin is interconvertible with chocolate.
23:35:49 <ion> ximalcoin really ximizes the usefulness of cryptocoin.
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