←2014-02-12 2014-02-13 2014-02-14→ ↑2014 ↑all
00:03:11 -!- Sgeo has joined.
00:03:38 <Phantom_Hoover> tipsoncoin exists for the sole purpose of backing that bot they have on reddit that tips people
00:05:28 <oerjan> i thought reddit had such bots for several coins.
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00:09:38 <FireFly> `coins
00:09:40 <HackEgo> telectcoin faerecoin revatiocoin cottocoin scabillwcoin braicoin mdpncoin concoin mazuringbraycoin jamachcoin univalcoin procoin udacoin chromeastavcoin imelbercoin huntcoin sublecoin cractcoin spacoin numpcoin
00:11:37 <kmc> `run words --finnish 20 | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
00:11:39 <HackEgo> viivisintyväitettäcoin eroksiltanicoin torittämäämissäcoin lapistavanicoin lansacoin muodattammecoin merkittavisicoin elä-konejacoin yksityitäköcoin kuksesittaanistänsäcoin hierastansacoin puneittävällisicoin suoduktuurtaammecoin salailemälläcoin sumeerapiannetteliaisemmicoin kuuntiavaapuncoin kiriipimäksesimmaksencoin komaavienneco
00:12:55 <oerjan> faerecoin turn into flowers while you're not watching.
00:13:39 <FireFly> `run words --finnish --swedish 20
00:13:40 <HackEgo> tres fistenän boliittas bilda kityret makselkrökig sataltamerkan foriljd ahkeassa signatsområngar sänittavademporter vastunernaaviljonklips turematko köyheterinteill akusarjallemisk aliserades muodosel fattningarskymit jouristelitektaan havillkaduettensa
00:14:24 <oerjan> en makselkrökig lista
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00:15:08 <FireFly> `run words --swedish --norwegian 10
00:15:09 <HackEgo> isontorganda vangern ingsform bil innesångighet sochic trans pleif pandlådring volumener
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00:15:37 <olsner> `run words --norwegian 10
00:15:38 <HackEgo> regenesteverste apetsstyrkede dukturkinnhets formasingsveiutgav gysnittak toffshowets fisér systandslag reglengen imønstets
00:16:26 <ski> FireFly : you're south of me ?
00:16:30 <oerjan> formasingsveiutgav is the new form you have to fill out for your car
00:17:28 <oerjan> it's due to EU directive 56012345
00:17:29 <FireFly> ski: that depends on your location..
00:17:31 * ski thinks "foriljd" sounds nice
00:17:40 <FireFly> mine is slightly south of Stockholm
00:17:41 <fizzie> "elä-konejacoin" -- "live-machineandkoin".
00:17:51 <ion> foriljd my $foo (@bar) { }
00:18:36 <FireFly> oh. I see
00:19:34 <FireFly> ski: pardon the highlight
00:19:43 <FireFly> I suppose that happens somewhat frequently with a nick like that?
00:19:53 <ski> np
00:20:02 <ski> now and then
00:21:25 <ion> If one has a common words as a nick nobody needs to apologize for using that word.
00:21:41 <ion> Everyone can feel free to talk about ions and i have no right to have a problem with that. :-P
00:24:09 <Sgeo> http://www.fark.com/comments/8140451/The-New-Zealand-Government-cannot-confirm-that-their-Prime-Minister-isnt-a-shapeshifting-reptilian-alien-ushering-humanity-towards-enslavement-Link-goes-to-official-document
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00:25:53 <boily> good not-quite morning!
00:26:05 <boily> @massages-loud
00:26:05 <lambdabot> fizzie asked 1d 10h 18m 59s ago: Why does metasepia leave when you do?
00:26:24 <Sgeo> @massages
00:26:25 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
00:26:28 <Sgeo> Why -loud?
00:26:30 <boily> fizzie: it was running from my machine. a machine I ran DBAN on.
00:26:37 <Sgeo> Isn't the default loud in public channel?
00:26:42 <boily> Sgeo: I don't know why. it seems traditional.
00:26:52 <boily> fizzie: but rest assured! I made backups.
00:26:59 <ion> sgeo: nice
00:27:05 <FireFly> ~metar ESSA
00:27:16 <FireFly> oh
00:27:17 <boily> FireFly: uhm. let me start it...
00:27:29 <boily> (it should run from here, probably.)
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00:30:23 <boily> ~metar ESSA
00:30:23 <metasepia> ESSA 130020Z 16006KT 6000 BR FEW004 M01/M01 Q1001 R01L/29//68 R08/29//64 R01R/29//59 TEMPO 4000 BKN004
00:30:33 <boily> IT'S ALIIIIIVE! ♪
00:30:39 <boily> ~metar CYUL
00:30:40 <metasepia> CYUL 130000Z 10007KT 15SM SCT240 M11/M19 A3031 RMK CI4 SLP269
00:31:07 <boily> quintopia: quinthellopia.
00:31:50 <Taneb> What's new?
00:32:21 <boily> new job!
00:32:26 <Taneb> Yaaaaaay
00:33:02 <boily> (meanwhile, codu.org is throwing me 500 Server Errors. were there any new quotes and/or wisdoms during my absence?)
00:33:49 <boily> Taneb: it's a nice place :D
00:33:56 <Taneb> boily, where at?
00:34:30 <boily> Taneb: http://www.dental-wings.com/
00:35:00 <Taneb> :O
00:35:42 <boily> @tell fizzie *poke poke poke*
00:35:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:36:36 <boily> Taneb: there's a nice coffee machine that makes espressi, we play mttg during lunch...
00:36:54 <boily> (there's a lack of Vietnamese restaurants around the place, but I'm coping.)
00:37:21 <shachaf> `? boily
00:37:22 <HackEgo> boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist.
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00:40:42 <oerjan> boily: we are still waiting for Gregor to fix the repository browser.
00:41:05 <boily> hellœrjan.
00:41:24 <oerjan> until then, we must rely on memory, which is lousy. although i did add a kmc quote today.
00:41:38 <kmc> `run quote kmc | tail
00:41:39 <HackEgo> 1114) <kmc> what did fungot say? <fungot> kmc: my implementation isn't supposed to sound rude. \ 1115) <kmc> BBC: Exercise 'can be as good as pills' <kmc> oh, they mean for your health \ 1125) <kmc> Sgeo: oh yeah those animated characters were built into the operating system and there was an API for them \ 1129) <Taneb> kmc, I was trying to go to
00:41:43 <kmc> `run quote kmc | tail -n 1
00:41:44 <HackEgo> 1169) <kmc> i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?"
00:42:05 <boily> good quote. let's try adding it...
00:42:13 <boily> (and having make fail...)
00:43:01 <boily> because yes, there is a Makefile to compile that PDF. that's y'all your fault.
00:45:17 * oerjan cackles maniäckally
00:45:51 * boily dusts his mapole, does a few practice swings...
00:45:52 <oerjan> `run allquotes | tail | tac
00:45:53 <HackEgo> 1169) <kmc> i think in any good FAQ the first Q is just "Dear god why?" \ 1168) <fungot> kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around \ 1167) <oerjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <oerjan> OKAY \ 1166) <fungot> boily: i'm robert fnord. here take a piece of freenode furniture \ 1165) <fizzie> 15:21 .. 15:41 <fizzie> I've got to st
00:46:19 <boily> oh. so, probably from 1166 up until the most recent.
00:46:48 <oerjan> whether there have been any inner edits i don't recall.
00:46:49 <boily> meanwhile, I'm updating my \LaTeX{} install. “pdflatex: error while loading shared libraries: libpoppler.so.27: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory”
00:47:01 <boily> oerjan: too complex for me at this time of day.
00:47:43 <oerjan> hm...
00:49:52 <kmc> ♫ put a poppler in your mouth when you eat at fishy joe's / what they're made from is a mystery, where they come from no-one knows ♫
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00:58:05 <oerjan> mômble mômble
01:00:09 <boily> maudite installation mal foutue de veut pas upgrader non mais ça se peut tu faire des affaires tout croche de même.
01:02:58 <boily> (strangely, google translate is pretty accurate on that one.)
01:03:13 <oerjan> aux quailles
01:04:24 <boily> aïl âme se t'il dont ne l'eau dingue.
01:14:26 <quintopia> boily!
01:14:32 <quintopia> you aren't usually online at this hour...
01:15:09 <quintopia> congratulations on those dufour-lapointe sisters and all. also, everyone else. must be quite exciting up there.
01:17:11 <boily> I think I'll be onlining with a different schedule from now on.
01:17:43 <boily> go us! we are teh bestest!
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01:26:46 <quintopia> boily: why does it seem like all the best canadian olympians are quebecois?
01:27:07 <quintopia> boily: oh i forgot: happy darwin day!
01:28:22 <pikhq> Does Quebec have a winter with unique properties that would aid them in the winter Olympics?
01:28:47 <quintopia> boily: and the whole schedule change thing: you may not talk to me much before 9:30pm
01:29:48 <boily> quintopia: I think pikhq has a point there.
01:29:59 <boily> but I go to bed at 21h30!
01:30:33 <quintopia> boily: on weekdays, i work from 15:00 to 21:00
01:30:41 <quintopia> boily: is this GOODBYE FOREVER
01:31:11 <boily> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
01:31:56 <boily> I shall inject myself with sweet #esoteric fluid on the weekends too.
01:49:57 <quintopia> sounds gross
01:49:57 <quintopia> perhaps you should do it at work
01:50:45 <boily> I don't have an #esöteric addiction. I can quit any time I want!
01:51:10 <quintopia> do you like outdoors boily
01:54:37 <boily> outdoors are nice.
01:54:47 <quintopia> okay wanna go hiking
01:55:14 <boily> it's been a while.
01:56:08 <Bike> just aska professor or talk at a bulletin board
01:56:10 <Taneb> Also I never did prove lens turing complete
01:56:12 <boily> Taneb: first you have to find a summer.
01:56:19 <Taneb> boily, I've got a summer planned
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01:57:18 <Taneb> I guess I could head over to the CS building a bit earlier than I have to and scour for bulletin boards
01:57:53 <quintopia> LUGECOIN: a coin that gets built up for half a year, then takes just under a minute to flat-bottom again
01:57:57 <Taneb> I wouldn't know which professor to ask, my supervisor is in the maths department (I'm on a joint course)
01:58:33 <boily> quintopia: is that a bad pun on “sled”? (en:sled → fr:luge)
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01:59:43 <kmc> a luge is also a kind of sled in english
01:59:48 <oerjan> Taneb: we have id, (.) and const, i think if we could find fix and the s combinator, that's enough...
02:00:03 <Taneb> Hmm
02:00:23 <oerjan> (fix only needed because the usual y combinator in ski won't type in haskell)
02:00:26 <Taneb> @type perform (acts.acts)
02:00:27 <lambdabot> Monad m => m (m b) -> m b
02:00:34 <oerjan> ooh
02:00:38 <Taneb> There's the W combinator
02:00:47 <oerjan> i was looking for that
02:00:56 <boily> kmc: oh.
02:01:01 <Taneb> I used that in my fibonacci program
02:01:30 <oerjan> except i didn't remember how the action stuff worked.
02:01:32 <boily> time for me to go inhale a chapter...
02:01:39 <oerjan> so i tried to do something with tuples.
02:01:42 <kmc> `coins
02:01:43 <HackEgo> rincoin hargcoin repuswamcoin chlorcoin tenevcoin noracoin checoin xbloucoin adhoocoin hidatedcoin .coin spectioncoin choolfschorumble-2dcoin conticoin chocoin xbfcoin plorcoin margegatediumbrainiolangcoin sedinalcoin loncoin
02:01:49 <boily> kmc: wut?
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02:02:10 <oerjan> Taneb: well pretty sure W (or join) _should_ allow you to build S
02:02:14 <oerjan> with the rest
02:02:18 <kmc> `coins
02:02:20 <HackEgo> foocoin divilladcoin fortunacoin hoccucoin affe7s8coin itilchicoin recurncoin objecoin playcoin crticoin bytendstufcoin malcoin restoclamcoin inccoin sorcoin underlcoin muxcrethratcoin bnecoin bincoin stachiahcoin
02:02:27 <Taneb> BCKW is turing complete
02:02:30 <Taneb> @type flipped
02:02:31 <lambdabot> (Functor f, Profunctor p) => p (b -> a -> c) (f (b' -> a' -> c')) -> p (a -> b -> c) (f (a' -> b' -> c'))
02:02:34 <Taneb> @type view flipped
02:02:35 <lambdabot> MonadReader (a -> b -> c) m => m (b -> a -> c)
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02:02:58 <oerjan> :t aside
02:02:58 <lambdabot> (Applicative f, Choice p) => APrism s t a b -> p (e, a) (f (e, b)) -> p (e, s) (f (e, t))
02:03:10 <oerjan> hm what's the dual of that
02:03:14 <Taneb> @type (.) ((.) ((.) join) flip) ((.) (.))
02:03:15 <lambdabot> (a -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c
02:03:39 <oerjan> oh right
02:03:44 <Taneb> Not too hard to lensify that, there's S for you
02:04:00 <oerjan> good, then you just need fix, i think
02:04:15 <Taneb> fix is the tricky one :(
02:04:35 <Taneb> May be able to fake it with iterated?
02:05:32 <Taneb> @type iterated
02:05:33 <lambdabot> (Applicative f, Contravariant f) => (a -> a) -> (a -> f a) -> a -> f a
02:05:50 <Taneb> > 1 ^.. iterated (+1)
02:05:52 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,...
02:06:02 <Taneb> That's the only way I know to get any recursion
02:06:05 <oerjan> not really
02:06:23 <oerjan> although maybe in the way curry or church managed to fake things without k...
02:07:36 <Taneb> > lastOf (iterated (const 7)) 1
02:07:45 <Taneb> :(
02:07:49 <Taneb> > firstOf (iterated (const 7)) 1
02:09:12 <oerjan> iterated will only give you terminating stuff, i think
02:09:31 <oerjan> like primitive recursion but with higher-order functions, like coq has
02:09:36 <oerjan> (iirc)
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02:10:59 <Taneb> @type fix (1:)
02:11:20 <Taneb> lambdabot seems to have given up on me
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02:12:18 <oerjan> @ping
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02:32:56 <zzo38> It's broke!
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03:29:39 <?unknown?> *** Notice -- TS for #esoteric changed from 1392258355 to 1164523370
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03:29:39 -!- ?unknown? has set topic: fungots fall on fungot falls | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
03:29:47 <pikhq> It was only designed for the sake of having a very small implementation.
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03:30:29 <pikhq> But otherwise, well, it's effectively just a slightly funny subset of most languages in common use.
03:31:17 <pikhq> Sure isn't an INTERCAL.
03:44:22 <kmc> beep boop
03:46:36 <kmc> somebody has slid a "yBITCOIN: Introducing The Future Of Money" magazine-advert-brochure-something under my bedroom door
03:46:45 <kmc> `coins
03:46:47 <HackEgo> greecoin dujourcoin beneticoin aaviacoin patocoin golcoin beauxcoin acronycoin gasoilcoin golfuckcoin justycoin estre-calcoin scecoin prectcoin pbleasircoin britscoin smurfarmacoin llllcoin karlicoin wakcoin
03:47:24 <kmc> those are some p. good coins
03:47:38 <oerjan> smurfarmacoin, for those who farm smurfs
03:57:32 <Jafet> `cat bin/coins
03:57:32 <HackEgo> words --eng-1M --esolangs ${1-20} | sed -re 's/( |$)/coin\1/g'
04:00:56 <Jafet> `cat bit/coins
04:00:57 <HackEgo> cat: bit/coins: No such file or directory
04:04:05 <quintopia> oerjan: i think i'm on the verge of finding a pattern that copies itself x times despite having m<=2 for every command? but not tonight...
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04:05:29 <oerjan> quintopia: well you need more than one cycle for it.
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04:05:36 <quintopia> oerjan: or perhaps i've already done it
04:05:40 <oerjan> (large cycle)
04:07:54 <quintopia> oerjan: it occurs to me it's impossible. if a command can copy itself twice, then there will be two of them. so after, say, four cycles (two two-cycle passes) there must be four of them. better to have a pattern that duplicates a self-preserving pattern
04:08:06 <quintopia> but i think i have that in the latest template as well
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04:24:08 <quintopia> oerjan: okay i have done :P
04:24:38 <quintopia> oerjan: a program that counts up from 0 in unary using only m<=2 (except to print)
04:24:56 <quintopia> in fact it uses only m=2
04:26:42 <oerjan> heh
04:27:30 <quintopia> sceql manages to be TC despite a queue that never shrinks. maybe we don't even need m=0! :P
04:27:44 <oerjan> oh dear
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04:43:02 <zzo38> How common do IRC clients do syntax highlighting? Due to several features it lack to just connect using a raw connection with telnet, including auto-pong, auto-response, masking the password, and syntax highlighting, that is why I made up the one that add such feature, but, how common is it anyways?
04:43:12 <zzo38> I saw other one which doesn't seem to do.
04:43:50 <zzo38> Unless you don't have a color monitor, or perhaps don't have a color printing, why do you want a IRC client with no syntax hightlightngitng.
04:44:50 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: I have used handful clients and none of them had that feature.
04:45:48 <tswett> `coins
04:45:49 <HackEgo> obducappedcoin jewaltkcoin blaimcoin bralcoin goydecoin chacoin wethcoin selemcoin tameicoin oischecoin curbazandcoin braincoin veliumcoin betacoin nummericoin halecoin parcoin sertcoin llacoin rentrojeccoin
04:45:58 <zzo38> I didn't expect it to, but, it is one of the things that is useful to me. I don't know which, if any, features are being shared by other IRC clients.
04:45:58 <tswett> braincoin
04:47:06 <kmc> syntax highlighting for what? source code? or the IRC protocol itself?
04:47:17 <zzo38> kmc: For the IRC protocol.
04:47:37 <kmc> most clients don't show the raw IRC protocol messages at all
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04:48:42 <oerjan> irssi has color highlighting, with theme files
04:49:12 <zzo38> O, so it does have such thing, then.
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04:50:31 <oerjan> i use a mostly black-on-white (but with some things light red or blue) theme called "clean".
04:51:03 <zzo38> What things is red and blue?
04:51:20 <oerjan> oh and the window borders are brighter colors
04:52:03 <zzo38> Shouldn't it just use the operating system's window borders though?
04:52:15 <oerjan> the time of messages is in blue, and in augur's join/quit messages there are some red symbols and his nick is blue.
04:52:33 <oerjan> not the borders for the whole window, but the borders for irssi subwindows
04:52:38 <zzo38> O, OK
04:53:18 <oerjan> anyway i chose this theme because _most_ text is black on white so i don't feel distracted by too much colors.
04:53:21 <zzo38> That (second part) makes sense. But, do you mean augur's messages, is only his nick blue, not the other one?
04:53:22 <augur> :x
04:53:36 <zzo38> Are the other ones in black?
04:54:10 <oerjan> it's not specific to augur, it's just that his were the only quit/join messages in this window right now
04:54:46 <zzo38> O, so, it color depending on what kind of message it is?
04:54:50 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: actually, another sensible use of colors in IRC is a hash-based nick coloring.
04:54:50 <oerjan> lines that mention my nick sometimes get some brighter red color.
04:55:06 <lifthrasiir> though it is less applicable for terminals.
04:55:14 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: yeah i think my original theme had that, which drove me crazy :P
04:55:26 <lifthrasiir> in irssi? :p
04:55:42 <zzo38> I have used hash-based coloring for making pie charts, but doesn't seem so useful for IRC.
04:55:54 <oerjan> possibly it was something else. dark background perhaps.
04:56:07 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: it is very useful to discern two nicks with shared prefixes.
04:56:07 <oerjan> zzo38: obviously some people like it.
04:56:20 <lifthrasiir> there is no point to use that otherwise though.
04:56:25 <zzo38> Well, yes if you like it then that's good if implementations exist.
04:58:46 <oerjan> for example in the line above where lifthrasiir says "oerjan:", his nick is bright red.
04:59:25 <oerjan> my own messages have a red ">" which is black for others. things like that.
05:00:06 <oerjan> i think the theme files allow you to configure much more than the colors, though.
05:00:09 <zzo38> I have a black on green ">" for my own messages; other message don't have ">"
05:00:30 <zzo38> Like do you mean, to configure the size of the window and so on?
05:00:35 <zzo38> And macros and filters?
05:00:42 <oerjan> (although i didn't edit it myself, afair)
05:01:42 <zzo38> Will it mask the password? I seem to remember, some people have said, the program they are using doesn't mask the password.
05:01:59 <oerjan> zzo38: i think macros (well, aliases) and filters go in the config file, the theme file is for style issues.
05:02:09 <lifthrasiir> some clients do mask the password when it is sent to known nicks, e.g. NickServ.
05:02:31 <lifthrasiir> but it is mostly limited since IRC clients generally don't know what is a password and what's not.
05:02:39 <oerjan> well i have put the password in the config file so i don't need to type it.
05:02:55 <zzo38> My client masks the password if the command starts with "PASS " or "/PASS " (it doesn't have a /PASS command, but it can be defined using macros if you need it)
05:03:30 <Sgeo> I hate snow
05:03:37 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: the same principle applies, since you'll see the message automatically sent to NickServ anyway.
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05:04:37 <zzo38> (If you type "NickServ" it won't mask the password though)
05:05:17 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: i don't see that message anywhere. i've set the freenode network configuration to use a server password.
05:05:57 <lifthrasiir> oerjan: did freenode support that? I never knew.
05:07:29 <oerjan> sure
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05:08:14 <lifthrasiir> http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup ha, that's really a good tip. I'll adapt that on the next reconnect.
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05:08:44 <oerjan> zzo38: btw my window size is set by putty, but irssi has layout configuration for the subwindows (i just have two normally)
05:09:30 <zzo38> As it turn out it is the same to me I have window size set by PuTTY, but there are no subwindows.
05:12:13 <oerjan> hm i'm not sure if i've included my account name in the password, as that page recommends
05:13:11 <oerjan> although it's almost never an issue anyway
05:14:34 <oerjan> also i now have tmux between putty and irssi as well, but all the tmux windows are full size
05:16:25 <oerjan> coincidentally, both tmux and irssi have green status bars
05:19:25 <kmc> Sgeo: what about it
05:20:03 <Sgeo> it keeps happening, and more or less trapping me inside
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05:20:52 <oerjan> Sgeo: on the bright side, it prevents the ground from catching fire hth
05:21:20 <kmc> why do you become trapped
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05:21:45 <Sgeo> kmc: I guess in theory I can walk around in 6"+ inches of snow, but it's not that easy
05:22:25 <kmc> do they not shovel sidewalks where you are?
05:23:07 <zzo38> I enter the password manually each time (using the PASS command) but have a macro for the NICK and USER commands.
05:24:01 <Sgeo> kmc: they do eventually. Some of them
05:24:47 <kmc> :/
05:25:10 <zzo38> When reading about SQLite I see that it says Firefox uses it. I thought Firefox uses JavaScripts, not SQL, isn't it? If you use Firefox maybe you know, how to access SQL with it?
05:26:47 <Sgeo> Pretty sure it uses SQL internally, but doubt it would give external websites an interface to use SQL, unless HTML5 specifies that such an interface should exist (I'm not sure)
05:26:59 <Sgeo> Extensions can probably access Firefox's databases
05:27:31 <kmc> in ~/.mozilla/firefox/*.default I have sqlite databases for: addons chromeappsstore content-prefs cookies downloads extensions formhistory permissions places search signons urlclassifier3 webappsstore
05:28:07 <kmc> there is also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_SQL_Database yes
05:28:10 <zzo38> Sgeo: I don't mean on websites! I mean for extensions
05:28:39 <zzo38> Extensions are written in JavaScripts and XUL (although they can be written using HTML too), not SQL.
05:29:01 <Sgeo> zzo38: things that use SQL are almost never written purely in SQL
05:29:23 <Sgeo> They create SQL using another language, generally, and then run it
05:29:34 <quintopia> i wonder how oerjan gets by without reverse video
05:30:38 <quintopia> 6"+ inches eh
05:30:48 <zzo38> That isn't how I do it usually; parameters like ?1 and so on may be generated using another language if necessary but usually I write other things directly in SQL
05:31:15 <zzo38> Some functions and virtual table modules may also be written in C, though, too
05:32:19 <kmc> but wouldn't you like to run JavaScript inside your SQL engine https://code.google.com/p/plv8js/wiki/PLV8
05:33:08 <Sgeo> let/ec seems nicer than the usual imperative return, but some people who hate early return for causing confusion would probably also hate abusing let/ec too
05:33:27 <kmc> what's let/ec
05:33:35 <zzo38> I don't know why I would need to run JavaScript inside of SQL engine.
05:35:13 <quintopia> for the same reason you'd want to run WEB inside TeX
05:35:32 <Sgeo> kmc: syntax sugar for call/ec, which is short for call-with-escape-continuation
05:35:42 <kmc> and what's escape continuation mean
05:36:04 <Sgeo> Which is similar to call-with-current-continuation except the continuation can only be used within the dynamic extent of the given function
05:36:10 <kmc> ah
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05:36:20 <kmc> which means more efficient implementation?
05:36:41 <Sgeo> Yes, and possibly clearer to read too (knowing that it can only be used in a certain way)
05:36:57 <zzo38> quintopia: You run WEB *inside* of TeX? You can certainly make similar systems that run completely inside of TeX, but WEB uses external programs too.
05:37:02 <Sgeo> http://docs.racket-lang.org/reference/cont.html?q=let%2Fec#%28def._%28%28quote._~23~25kernel%29._call-with-escape-continuation%29%29
05:37:02 <kmc> what happens if you try to save/return it?
05:37:19 <Sgeo> Using it would give an error
05:37:50 <quintopia> zzo38: I run running runs inside of insides inside.
05:38:20 <Sgeo> http://pasterack.org/pastes/6784
05:39:11 <Sgeo> Saving and then using it all while within the dynamic extent of the call-with-escape-continuation should be fine though
05:44:43 <kmc> does scheme have any Undefined Behavior?
05:44:48 <kmc> in the C sense
05:45:13 <Sgeo> I think there's behavior that's ambiguously described in the spec
05:45:25 <Sgeo> Oleg talks about it somewhere, iirc, but beyond that I don't really know
05:45:32 <Sgeo> But that's not UB
05:45:37 <kmc> right
05:45:46 <kmc> isn't function argument eval order undefined, for one?
05:45:57 <kmc> or "unspecified" in C terms
05:46:28 <shachaf> i,i behavior left as an exercise for the reader
05:46:38 <Sgeo> kmc: I keep forgetting about that
05:46:42 <Bike> http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-4.html#%_sec_1.3.2
05:47:02 <kmc> i opened a bug for that os x documentation and cited the C11 spec twice (thanks to fizzie)
05:47:07 <kmc> am i a real language lawyer now
05:47:10 <Sgeo> "What’s really sad is that some so-called high-level languages like Scheme intentionally include undefined behavior, too. This may make Scheme look like a real systems language after all."
05:47:12 <Bike> i know some for-effect procedures return unspecified values cos the kernel guy wouldn't shut up about it. i think there's some other stuff, like, something to do with define maybe?
05:47:28 <Bike> why does everyone dislike undefined behavior, it makes perfect sense to me...
05:47:55 <Sgeo> "I have been preaching the ‘unsafe and undefined gospel’ for a long time in PL courses. Indeed, I have been preaching it for such a long time that former students still have T shirts with my quote “Scheme is just as bad as FORTRAN” for the same issue. Indeed, some HotSpot compiler authors may still own this T shirt."
05:48:58 <kmc> sassy
05:49:01 <Bike> http://www.schemers.org/Documents/Standards/R5RS/HTML/r5rs-Z-H-9.html#%_sec_6.1 some UB in the behavior of eqv? on weird crap
05:49:03 <shachaf> kmc: what happens if you language-lawyer and then ken thompson says "we never meant for it to work that way, C89 shouldn't have allowed it"
05:49:14 <Bike> could look more but whooooo caaaaares
05:49:22 <kmc> i don't know what happens (did that happen)
05:49:26 <shachaf> yes
05:49:53 <shachaf> do you count as a language lawyer or do you lose your language lawyer license or what
05:50:04 <kmc> is that like, language common law
05:51:25 <Bike> having a language explicitly do the common law precedent thing would be kinda interesting
05:51:30 <Bike> but would require easier "lawsuits"
05:51:49 <shachaf> isn't that how some specs are written
05:52:01 <shachaf> or e.g. alternative ruby implementations
05:52:23 <Bike> yeah, but like, explicitly. and presumably faster.
05:52:31 <Bike> "the legal system: fast"
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05:52:40 <shachaf> by the way, you can get non-DRM http://www.brokenagegame.com/ now
05:54:06 <Bike> did it have DRM before?
05:54:15 <Bike> or do you just mean it's released instead of the kickstarter alpha thing
05:54:23 <shachaf> they were just selling it on steam before
05:54:44 <shachaf> i probably can't in good faith recommend to people to buy things on steam
05:56:06 <kmc> "Isn't that just the wrong way?" "Yes, but faster!"
06:02:19 * Bike owns like a dozen things on steam, oops
06:05:11 <oklopol_> is steam evil?
06:06:05 <fizzie> ~metar EFHK
06:06:10 <fizzie> Oh, I'm too late.
06:06:36 <kmc> no metasepia and no fungot
06:06:49 <kmc> we're quite short on bots now
06:07:07 <kmc> ) hi there
06:07:07 <jconn> kmc: hi there
06:07:11 <kmc> :O
06:07:35 <Sgeo> ) >'Hi kmc'
06:07:35 <jconn> Sgeo: Hi kmc
06:07:41 <Sgeo> ) <'Hi kmc'
06:07:41 <jconn> Sgeo: +------+
06:07:41 <jconn> Sgeo: |Hi kmc|
06:07:41 <jconn> Sgeo: +------+
06:07:47 <kmc> a nice box
06:07:53 <kmc> is that what they call a "boxed value"
06:08:02 <Sgeo> yes
06:08:03 <oklopol_> is this the game whose original kickstarter thing was this guy telling you how he wants to bathe in your money
06:08:05 <oklopol_> or something
06:10:38 <oklopol_> or maybe they already had gotten some money from the kickstarter and he was like mm moneys. or something. maybe. i should pay more attention to things maybe.
06:11:01 <quintopia> i just found alex churchill's stackoverflow posting about the second version of his MtGTM...
06:45:59 <quintopia> why does wikipedia say Clean is influenced by Haskell, but created 3 years earlier?
06:46:56 <lifthrasiir> ) <<<<<''
06:46:57 <jconn> lifthrasiir: +--------+
06:46:57 <jconn> lifthrasiir: |+------+|
06:46:57 <jconn> lifthrasiir: ||+----+||
06:46:57 <jconn> lifthrasiir: |||+--+|||
06:46:57 <jconn> lifthrasiir: ||||++||||
06:46:58 <jconn> lifthrasiir: ...
06:47:11 <lifthrasiir> the magical box raid.
06:50:41 <Bike> quintopia: maybe the devteams knew one another. or the haskell in question is prestandard.
06:56:32 <kmc> time travel
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07:36:32 <fizzie> Oh.
07:37:03 -!- fungot has joined.
07:37:08 <fizzie> There's at least some fungots.
07:37:08 <fungot> fizzie: it's... kind of when you say python primitives weren't objects?
07:37:10 <kmc> welcome back fungot
07:37:10 <fungot> kmc: i thought so too. for simple data like lists symbols vectors numbers such? do you need?' or something, i guess some fnord is involved.
07:37:16 <kmc> ^style
07:37:16 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
07:37:25 <kmc> ^style jargon
07:37:25 <fungot> Selected style: jargon (UNIX-HATERS mailing list archive)
07:37:29 <fizzie> (It doesn't persist the style.)
07:37:31 <kmc> more fungot pls
07:37:31 <fungot> kmc: hey quux, we look in our routing tables as see that unix-weenish is rife with possibilities for misinterpretation. what's your problem.
07:38:28 <kmc> ^bool
07:38:29 <fungot> No.
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08:29:32 <Sgeo> I only now come to realize that with a named let, the named function doesn't have to be called in tail-call position
08:29:33 <Sgeo> derp
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09:01:41 <b_jonas> Sgeo: you mean in scheme?
09:02:47 <Bike> does anything else have named let?
09:03:18 <b_jonas> Bike: dunno, I think some other schemes probably have it
09:03:23 <b_jonas> um
09:03:26 <b_jonas> I mean some other lisps
09:03:44 <b_jonas> and "named let" isn't too specific as a name, maybe some other language calls something else that
09:04:11 <Bike> none do that i'm aware of, unless you count half-made pseudoschemes ofc
09:10:30 <b_jonas> ah, r6rs actually calls it "named let". I didn't know that name.
09:11:10 <b_jonas> and so does r5rs
09:11:22 <b_jonas> I see
09:12:05 <Bike> well like 'let' isn't usually a noun anyway
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09:33:34 <Bike> http://www.textfiles.com/uploads/apple2gscracks.txt sweet
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11:29:01 <Taneb> Is there a way to translate algorithmically from B,C,K,W to Hindley-Milner B,C,K,W with fix?
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11:58:32 <Jafet> Cracks were so much simpler in the old days. (Also, there was a Neuromancer video game?)
12:02:17 <fizzie> An Interplay adventure game, right?
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12:03:11 <fizzie> http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/neuromancer/screenshots/gameShotId,3603/ <- look, cyberspace.
12:05:58 <Jafet> Those are... rather unimaginative names. Compared to, say, shikata_ga_nai.
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13:42:57 <ais523> OK, the weather in the UK is just trolling now
13:43:03 <ais523> we just had a hailstorm that lasted about 30 seconds
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17:55:32 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal Raspberry Pi in full frame rather than a circle, courtesy of a non-broken adapter ring and a more suitable pair of lenses: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140213-pi.jpg
17:55:32 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:55:39 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal It's still a completely impractical setup, since even with smallest aperture (f/32) the depth of field is that small, and it's not possible to get lower magnification.
17:55:39 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:55:43 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal A couple of shots of the ridiculous-looking setup: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140213-shot1.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140213-shot2.jpg
17:55:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:55:47 <fizzie> @tell Vorpal (Though the crank-to-raise-or-lower neck of the actual tripod did make focusing easier.)
17:55:47 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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18:07:01 <zzo38> What does the MONITOR command mean on this IRC?
18:08:46 <Bike> https://github.com/atheme/charybdis/blob/master/doc/monitor.txt zzo38
18:08:49 <kmc> fizzie: nice
18:09:04 <kmc> a pair of lenses?
18:09:05 <ais523> zzo38: [524] ais523 monitor Help not found
18:09:12 <ais523> apparently it doesn't know
18:09:33 <fizzie> kmc: Yes, like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RevLensMac.png
18:09:40 <fizzie> kmc: (It's very silly.)
18:09:56 <Bike> fizzie: lol
18:10:07 <atriq> Today I got marks back on a programming formative exam I did last term
18:10:08 <atriq> 49/50
18:10:19 * kmc has AP Physics flashbacks
18:10:39 <fizzie> On the other hand, the adapter ring (#2 in the Wikipedia picture) cost approximately $3 on eBay, so at least it wasn't expensive to do either.
18:10:41 <atriq> Lost one mark because I missed a shortcut I could take because the input list was assumed to be sorted
18:11:00 <kmc> do you put some kind of transparent cover over the "body" end of the reversed lens to keep dust out?
18:13:01 <fizzie> kmc: That could be nice, but I don't think they really do anything like that; would need to DIY it. Though I'm not sure I'll be doing this habitually enough for that to really matter.
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18:16:35 <atriq> Hey, can anyone golf the Python code "def f(n):return n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)" any further?
18:17:14 <FreeFull> Is that fibbonacci?
18:17:17 <atriq> Aye
18:17:49 <FreeFull> Could golf it by translating it into a different language =P
18:18:40 <fizzie> kmc: The pair of lenses in this case was the EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 zoom (in the "forward" position) and the EF 50mm f/1.8 prime (reversed), but I had to zoom the former all the way to something like 225mm in order to keep the corners from going black, so the minimum magnification was approximately 4.5, which is really rather overkill.
18:18:52 <atriq> FreeFull, that's pretty easy
18:19:10 <shachaf> atriq: f=lambda n:n if n<2 ...
18:19:53 <FreeFull> shachaf: Good idea
18:20:18 <atriq> f=lambda n:
18:20:21 <atriq> def f(n):
18:20:25 <shachaf> return
18:20:30 <atriq> Oooh
18:20:59 <atriq> !python f=lambdan:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)\nprint f(12)
18:21:02 <EgoBot> File "<stdin>", line 1 \ f=lambdan:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)\nprint f(12) \ ^ \ SyntaxError: invalid syntax
18:21:19 <atriq> !python f=lambda n:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)\nprint f(10)
18:21:20 <EgoBot> File "<stdin>", line 1 \ f=lambda n:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2)\nprint f(10) \ ^ \ SyntaxError: unexpected character after line continuation character
18:21:39 <atriq> !python (lambda n:n if n<2 else f(n-1)+f(n-2))(10)
18:21:40 <EgoBot> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module> \ File "<stdin>", line 1, in <lambda> \ NameError: global name 'f' is not defined
18:21:44 <atriq> :(
18:21:46 <atriq> Anyway
18:21:48 <shachaf> No, you have to name it.
18:22:07 <FreeFull> In a hypothetical stack language, you could do f#[d2<?r:1-d2-f;]
18:22:23 <FreeFull> Oh, forgot a +
18:22:50 <FreeFull> # probably should come first
18:23:09 <zzo38> I think dc would be better if having a "arithmetic if" command instead of the way it does conditions now; it just result only the corresponding entry on the stack but then you would still need "x" afterward to execute it.
18:23:51 <zzo38> (I know, it isn't dc)
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18:50:10 <FireFly> atriq: does n<2 and 1 or .. work in python?
18:51:55 <FireFly> !python f=lambda n:n<2 and 1 or f(n-2)+f(n-1); print(f(5))
18:51:56 <EgoBot> 8
18:52:04 <FireFly> !python f=lambda n:n<2 and 1 or f(n-2)+f(n-1); print(f(10))
18:52:05 <EgoBot> 89
18:53:11 <kmc> !python f=lambda n:n<2and 1or f(n-2)+f(n-1); print(f(10))
18:53:11 <EgoBot> 89
18:54:18 <FireFly> ew
18:55:21 <Bike> what a strange way to write a conditional
18:55:31 <atriq> > length "f=lambda n:n<2and 1or f(n-2)+f(n-1)"
18:55:32 <lambdabot> 35
18:55:35 <shachaf> it's p. standard in bash
18:55:41 <Bike> bash is strange
18:56:13 <kmc> also perl
18:56:29 <ais523> in Perl you'd more likely use ?:
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19:19:10 <quintopia> :( where is a norwegian when you need one
19:19:52 <kmc> norway
19:19:54 <quintopia> ais523: odds on resPairate being universal for m /exactly/ 2?
19:20:14 <ais523> quintopia: I'd say I believe it is, but am not certain and have no construction
19:20:56 <quintopia> that would be incredible if it were
19:22:27 <FireFly> also lua
19:22:29 <FireFly> er
19:22:40 <FireFly> old conversation, but whatever
19:24:38 <quintopia> has anyone here been to Berlin or Praha?
19:28:22 <kmc> i've been to Berlin
19:28:47 <myname> actually, i live in berlin
19:29:25 <kmc> :O
19:29:38 <kmc> "actually, i AM berlin!"
19:29:48 <myname> yeah
19:30:27 <fizzie> I've been to both, but not very recently.
19:30:42 <fizzie> Prague in 2012, I think.
19:31:00 <kmc> i want to go to praha
19:31:52 <quintopia> myname: i might go there in april. wanna be a tourist for a day? or recommend some less common activities to do?
19:32:21 <kmc> stuff your face with currywurst
19:34:10 <nortti> FireFly: python nowadays has `if_true if conditional else if_false` expression
19:34:36 <FireFly> nortti: but atriq asked for a golfed version
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19:35:29 <nortti> hmm, yeah. the and+or thing uses 1 less char
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19:36:22 <FireFly> I think it saves another char due to kmc's whitespace hackery
19:36:33 <FireFly> the and+or variant allows two spaces to be removed, but the if-else only one
19:52:23 <quintopia> kmc: oh that was going to happen regardless. that falls under "common tourist activities"
19:56:24 <kmc> this is definitely tourist stuff but the Mauermueseum and the DDR Museum are both very interesting
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20:22:36 <fizzie> In Prague, there was a whole lot of things related to beer.
20:22:51 <fizzie> Personally, I'm not much of a beer, but for people who are beer, there's a lot of that.
20:23:30 <fizzie> (Though I was there just for a conference, didn't really do much aside from that.)
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20:24:48 <FireFly> I found it enjoyable to just walk around in the city of prague
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20:27:58 <fizzie> I did a more turisty thing there with my mother, somewhere around 2000, maybe a bit before, but I don't really remember details too well.
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20:49:28 <quintopia> beer is good
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22:52:49 <oerjan> <quintopia> i wonder how oerjan gets by without reverse video <-- what?
22:53:17 <shachaf> whoa, whoa, whoa, oerjan doesn't have reverse video?
22:53:24 <shachaf> how do you even get by?
22:53:24 <oerjan> are you making a joke about the fact i prefer dark text on light background?
22:53:39 <shachaf> oh
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23:05:17 <boily> good schedulœrjan evening!
23:06:16 <oerjan> god kveilly
23:19:44 <oerjan> <quintopia> why does wikipedia say Clean is influenced by Haskell, but created 3 years earlier? <-- presumably later versions of clean have adopted features from haskell, i think type classes are one
23:20:11 <oerjan> (as in, i vaguely recall clean has type classes, which were definitely invented for haskell)
23:23:45 <boily> oerjan: what is a kveill? google thinks it's Icelandic for “cry”.
23:24:12 <oerjan> it's actually norwegian dialect for "evening"
23:24:37 <boily> oh.
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