←2014-03-05 2014-03-06 2014-03-07→ ↑2014 ↑all
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01:07:24 <Sgeo> Huh, idris-ircslave is still here
01:11:36 <zzo38> Is it supposed to be?
01:12:06 <Sgeo> I don't know, but I'm surprised, since I thought oerjan was getting annoyed
01:13:15 <zzo38> oerjan can program their computer to hide those messages if they are getting annoyed
01:19:20 <zzo38> Can we still find compilers for the programming languages mentioned in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Prehistory_of_esoteric_programming_languages ?
01:20:11 <Sgeo> P'' is trivial to write a P''->BF compiler for, apparently
01:20:30 <zzo38> Yes, I know that one
01:20:33 <Sgeo> ....APL is considedred an esolang?
01:20:38 <Sgeo> Pretty sure it's still alive today
01:20:57 <zzo38> I mean EXPLOR and TRAC and TMG and that stuff
01:21:14 <zzo38> And the Bell Labs Low Level Linked List Language
01:24:59 <zzo38> Although you are correct probably APL is still used today.
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02:13:38 <Sgeo> kmc... isn't here
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04:11:03 <Sgeo> http://o.onionstatic.com/images/25/25447/original/700.jpg?9613
04:11:19 <Sgeo> Huh, no crying Statue of Liberty. How unusual
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04:44:57 <zzo38> The two cards which can beat a 59eye1Mewtwo deck have many things in common: Both are level fifteen, both are weak to fire and resisted to nothing, both cards can evolve into two further stages...
04:47:15 <zzo38> As far as I can tell they are the only two cards in PokemonCardGB2 which will beat it.
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05:06:10 <shachaf> one card can beat an entire deck?
05:06:51 <zzo38> Yes, although this "entire deck" is just one card and the rest are energy.
05:07:04 <zzo38> Same thing with the deck consisting of the other card; it has to be one card and the rest are energy.
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05:16:28 <quintopia> zzo38: you mean that deck can beat any deck that isn't one of those two cards plus energy?
05:16:37 <quintopia> that sounds ridiculously broken
05:25:09 <zzo38> quintopia: No, that isn't what I mean.
05:25:21 <zzo38> In most cases one or the other might win.
05:25:59 <Bike> the deck being beaten is the one with only a card plus energy.
05:26:39 <zzo38> Both decks consist of just one non-basic-energy card.
05:27:54 <zzo38> For my report, so that you can see what I mean, see: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/pokemon_card/59eye1mewtwo.txt
05:29:50 <zzo38> The only reason it is "ridiculously broken" is because most people still play Constructed.
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05:39:31 <zzo38> Maybe you know of other cards which can?
05:39:45 <zzo38> Or, cards which beat the deck which beats that one?
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05:49:25 <zzo38> Let's see which card can beat BULBASAUR [Lv15] but that MEWTWO [Lv53] beats it.
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06:19:11 <zzo38> I found no card which satisfies these conditions.
06:27:53 <Sgeo> How urgent is it for me to replace the idris bot with one that doesn't collide with lambdabot?
06:29:51 <Bike> more important than your life.
06:30:27 <zzo38> You can disable the function that collides with lambdabot
06:30:55 <zzo38> You can make it if send a message by private or starting with its name and a colon, it will activate, unless the message is a NOTICE.
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08:39:06 <zzo38> I made up 16-bits instruction set today. It has eight addressing modes: R [R] [R++] [--R] [R+I] [R+[I]] [[R]+I] [[R]+[I]]
08:39:31 <zzo38> It also has eight registers; the stack pointer and program counter are also considered general-purpose registers.
08:41:54 <zzo38> It has thirty "2OP" instructions, sixteen "1OP" instructions, and one "0OP" instruction. 2OPs are: LEA MOV MZS MZC MCS MCC MNS MNC ADD ADC SUB SBC AND IOR XOR ANN CMP MSK LDI STI LLO LHO SLO SHO DAD DAC DSB DSC SHD AAB. 1OPs are: LSH LSC RSH RSC INC DEC LFL SFL SIA ASR SIS REV PMI DBN BZE BNZ. 0OPs are: FLG.
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09:07:33 <zzo38> Do you know of any other instructions sets where there isn't a normal uncondition branch instruction and you use something like MOV P,[P++] instead?
09:12:07 <olsner> ARM can do things like that (for example returning can be done as pop pc), but it also has "normal" branch instructions
09:12:39 <zzo38> Why do you need normal branch instructions if it has that?
09:12:44 <oerjan> Sgeo: sometimes i'm more patient than i expect. sometimes less.
09:14:11 <olsner> because they are shorter - 32 bits of instruction has at least ~20 bits over for an offset, so you use those when you can and only resort to the indirect jumps when you must
09:14:27 <olsner> e.g. when the program is larger than n MB, or linked in such a way that you don't know where the called code might be
09:15:00 <zzo38> O, so that's how it works, it makes sense.
09:15:25 <zzo38> However, my instruction set is using 16-bit instructions
09:18:49 <olsner> mov p,[p++] is arguably just a funny way of writing the jmp imm16 instruction
09:21:00 <zzo38> I suppose so, although I encode it like that.
09:24:55 <oerjan> it would probably be inefficient if it's _not_ special cased internally.
09:28:42 <zzo38> It could be special cased internally if you want to
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09:35:56 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: any concrete docs about them? some are obvious, but some are obscure. (e.g. for conditions, what's difference between ZS and ZC? zero and signed????)
09:36:39 <ion> https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/1959904_10152640836783356_1654381488_n.jpg | http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iltasanomat.fi%2Fkotimaa%2Fart-1288661885235.html&act=url
09:39:39 <oerjan> that guy looks ready to kill
09:41:08 <oerjan> ion: i managed to read that as "War promoted by the new commander" on first glance
09:41:22 <ion> heh
09:41:52 <oerjan> not one of google's best moments, in any case
09:42:21 <ion> To my knowledge, no good machine translation from Finnish to English exists on the planet.
09:43:04 <ion> But that one gives enough context for the photoshop.
09:43:57 <oerjan> oh i didn't notice the pictures were different
09:44:25 <oerjan> i assume it's some fps game?
09:46:20 <ion> http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Jonathan_J._O'Neill
10:00:45 <zzo38> lifthrasiir: Yes I do have some documentation, but it is incomplete. MZS means move if zero flag set, MZC means move if zero flag is clear.
10:03:01 <lifthrasiir> aha, so there are zero/carry/negative flags and consequently six conditional moves.
10:07:15 <zzo38> Yes.
10:07:15 <zzo38> Note about addressing modes: Each 2OP has two operands, and no more than one operand can have an addressing mode other than R.
10:07:59 <zzo38> Also, one bit of the instruction (other than FLG) is used to indicate whether or not the instruction affects flags. Some instructions affect some (but not all) flags anyways even if this bit is cleared, such as the CMP, MSK, and LFL instructions.
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11:23:34 <boily> @messeges-leud
11:23:35 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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12:20:07 <fizzie> @messages-feud
12:20:08 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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14:21:00 <Phantom_Hoover> @massages
14:21:00 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
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14:28:51 <int-e> @tell boily I lament the lack of lambdabot messages.
14:28:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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14:35:31 <fizzie> int-e: Perhaps you should incorporate some fungot technology so that, if someone is explicitly asking for messages yet has none, it'd write one?
14:35:31 <fungot> fizzie: alice gave a weary sigh. " but what are they for?' alice asked at last, by common consent, into a few random groups, seated on the ground near the door, she ran across the duchess ( who was now out of prison, and he went and he lived in another town. so the lion ate the wrong man."
14:38:41 <int-e> good fungot fungot day
14:38:41 <fungot> int-e: " who are the audience to be?" i said. i was dreaming again.
14:39:06 <int-e> Fungot is astonishingly astute ... sometimes.
14:39:19 <int-e> And still case sensitive, I'm happy to see.
15:00:55 <fizzie> http://hs13.snstatic.fi/webkuva/taysi/560/1305796309581 man, that thing looks like some sort of a block loading glitch.
15:01:27 <fizzie> (It's apparently the winning proposal for the memorial for the Utøya thing.)
15:03:55 <Melvar> Oh man, it totally does. That’s hilarious.
15:04:15 <Melvar> A chunk error.
15:04:35 <fizzie> Lots of Minecrafters in Norway, I suppose.
15:04:56 <elliott> fizzie: unrealistic, it has water there
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16:23:10 <Taneb> Thank you #esoteric
16:24:32 <Taneb> For, while not teaching me particularly much CS, very much preparing my mind for learning it
16:25:02 <ais523> I like that sentiment
16:29:45 <newsham> soil tilled
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17:44:04 <Jafet> esowiki should be purged of any languages less esoteric than https://github.com/jloughry/BANCStar
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18:11:07 <zzo38> Can someone write a new compiler for BANCStar?
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18:18:52 <ais523> zzo38: not without a spec, and I'm not sure there's a public spec
18:19:11 <ais523> Jafet: BANCStar is normally considered non-eso, although there have been huge debates
18:19:18 <ais523> it's one of the most contentious wrt "eso or not"
18:19:40 <ais523> the main argument against is that it was intended as an intermediate language asm, and it's not massively insane as intermediate languages go
18:20:33 <Jafet> The main argument is that most languages on the esowiki are not really that esoteric
18:22:52 <zzo38> I would like to see the documentation if someone would release it. Some things I may be able to figure out from the example programs, though
18:26:59 <zzo38> It is still a bit unusual even as an intermediate language though
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18:36:04 <zzo38> I notice that the numbers seem to fit in a signed 16-bit integer, and wonder if that is a limit. Also, some operands are omitted; are those treated as -32768 or something like that?
18:36:12 <zzo38> Or as zero?
18:36:40 <zzo38> Are blocks allowed to be nested?
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18:48:16 <zzo38> Why does it crash when there is a dot in the source file?
18:52:25 <zzo38> It looks when writing to a variable, you represent a constant number by multiplying it by ten and adding 22002. When reading it is different.
18:52:29 <Taneb> I have a typewriter
18:54:22 <zzo38> Hopefully the rest of the pages can be scanned.
18:54:30 <zzo38> Taneb: What model is it?
18:55:46 <Taneb> Seems to be a variant of a Brother 210
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19:06:53 <quintopia> what are you going to do with it Taneb
19:07:03 <zzo38> I also have a typewriter, which is also Brother.
19:07:11 <zzo38> I use it for typing addresses on envelopes.
19:07:45 <Taneb> quintopia, type, probably
19:07:52 <Taneb> Go to CS lectures and take notes
19:09:49 <quintopia> wonderful
19:10:04 <zzo38> You take notes with a typewriter?
19:10:06 <quintopia> i hope it makes loud clicking sounds that disturb the whole class
19:11:36 <Taneb> So do I
19:11:43 <Taneb> Anyway, I have an adventure to go on
19:11:47 <Taneb> Bye!
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19:20:30 <oerjan> a brilliant plan for getting thrown out of class
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19:22:15 <ion> http://www.ted.com/talks/renny_gleeson_404_the_story_of_a_page_not_found Sorry, we’re experiencing technical difficulties. Our tech team is on it. In the meantime, why not take a break and watch Renny Gleeson’s talk, 404, the story of a page not found.
19:24:24 <ais523> oerjan: I remember an event a while back when someone from a poor family took a typewriter to university with them because the family owned one, and couldn't afford a computer
19:24:33 <ais523> and the university's response was to buy them a laptop
19:25:33 <oerjan> aww
19:28:09 <ion> nice
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20:50:47 <ion> http://www.change.org/petitions/president-obama-ban-the-production-use-and-circulation-of-the-paper-us-dollar
20:54:12 <Bike> this is a bitcoin thing isn't it
20:55:03 <ais523> I'd like to see the official response to that one
20:55:32 <zzo38> Should they instead use a dollar coin like we have in Canada?
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21:01:49 <ais523> US has both paper and metal-coin dollars, IIRC
21:02:46 <zzo38> Is it useful to have both?
21:05:22 <oerjan> the metal-coin ones are historical relics, aren't they?
21:05:26 <Bike> yeah. dollar coins are nice for hitting people, and with dollar bills you can make emergency bandages or gags easily.
21:05:57 <Bike> oerjan: nah, they keep trying to push new ones. never really works
21:06:01 <oerjan> hm
21:06:27 <Bike> looks like the last batch was stopped in 2011.
21:06:33 <Bike> i've actually never seen any of them, how about that
21:07:06 <oerjan> i suppose they actually _would_ have to stop productions of the paper ones to make the coins take off.
21:07:10 <oerjan> *-s
21:08:22 <oerjan> in norway we've changed denominations from bills to coins several times, the bills usually stop being legal tender after a while.
21:08:29 <oerjan> 10 years or so
21:09:48 <oerjan> and of course we drop coins as well. last one to go was the 50 øre, which means our krone is no longer divided into smaller units, at least physically.
21:10:52 <oerjan> it's funny how the usa insists on keeping pennies while we are dropping the equivalent of 10 cent coins
21:15:12 <ais523> there was a big deal when the £2 coin was introduced in the UK a while back
21:15:35 <ais523> we haven't had higher denominations for ages, though, and £2 coins still feel a little like a novelty
21:15:47 <ais523> £5 coins technically exist but aren't in general circulation
21:16:28 <elliott> they're 17 years old.
21:16:31 <elliott> (2 pound coins)
21:16:51 <ais523> elliott: I guess that means I was at the right age at the time to think it was a really big deal
21:16:57 <ais523> like, 9, I guess
21:17:07 <ais523> I still think of them as being special
21:17:21 <ais523> I think of £50 notes as special, too, but that's mostly because although they're in general circulation they're hardly ever used
21:17:22 <Bike> i have a huge wad of $2s
21:17:46 <Bike> there's this thing in murka where we treat $2 as weird and rare even though they have consistently been worth two dollars for the last billion years, unlike 50¢ coins and such
21:17:53 <zzo38> I think someone told me that two pound coins are similar to one pound coins?
21:17:56 <ais523> to the extent that if you go to a bank and ask for a large amount of money (say £1000), they'll give it to you in £20 notes rather than £50 notes unless you specifically request otherwise
21:18:16 <ais523> zzo38: they look very different, they're about twice as large, and have an inner section that's a different color
21:18:41 <ais523> Bike: 50¢ coins haven't consistently been worth 50¢?
21:19:31 <zzo38> Then I don't know why they said it is similar
21:19:50 <ais523> yes, I think they were just wrong
21:19:55 <Bike> old dollars are full of silver and suchlike
21:19:58 <Bike> half dollars*
21:20:27 <ais523> the outside of a £1 coin and £2 coin is the same color and that color (i.e. the metal alloy that produces it) isn't used by other UK coins, so that's a similarity
21:20:30 <ais523> but that's about the only similarity
21:20:40 <ais523> (the £1 coin is made of that alloy all the way through, the £2 only around the outside)
21:21:29 <Bike> haha, back in the late 1800s they made a $50 coin, awesome
21:24:14 <zzo38> Do you know anything about pattern matching on trees or on list of instructions? I tried to make something to pattern match on list of instructions, is it OK in your opinion?
21:24:28 <zzo38> And I still need to add a expression tree pattern match
21:24:45 <Bike> one time i tried to pattern match a tree but my skin got all covered in sap
21:25:27 <ais523> zzo38: I wrote OIL for doing pattern matching and replacement on INTERCAL parse trees
21:25:47 <ais523> zzo38: here is the documentation: http://c.intercal.org.uk/manual/dlbvn76f.htm#Optimizer-Idiom-Language
21:25:52 <zzo38> ais523: Yes I saw that
21:26:06 <zzo38> I wonder how well something similar would work for something I am making
21:26:28 <zzo38> In my case, optimization is not the only use of such thing, although it can be one such use.
21:26:45 <zzo38> Optimization is also performed on list of instructions too, though
21:27:39 <ais523> zzo38: I think optimization on lists of instructions is called "peephole optimization"
21:27:57 <ais523> and yes, optimization isn't the only use, it's just my use
21:28:00 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, it is peephole optimization.
21:28:17 <zzo38> I wrote part of a program to do so, but I would like it reviewed.
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22:42:31 <`^_^v> just wrote my first unification algorithm, now i feel like a computer scientist
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22:54:38 <Taneb> Today I met a Norwegian computer scientist from IRC. I am disappointed she was not in fact oerjan
22:55:34 <olsner> `? oerjan_
22:56:03 <olsner> hmm, no bot... might have been oerjan_ anyway
22:56:24 <oerjan> "from IRC"?
22:57:47 <oerjan> is that a horrible mistypo of something?
22:58:27 <olsner> "from IRC" probably means "is also on IRC somewhere"
22:58:31 <ais523> oerjan: possibly an elision of "someone I know from IRC", which is how I interpreted that
22:58:58 <oerjan> but then it makes no sense that he'd be disappointed she wasn't me.
22:59:32 <oerjan> btw i am _not_ a computer scientist by profession.
23:01:08 <Taneb> By "from IRC", I mean "I know this person primarily via IRC"
23:01:11 <elliott> plot twist: it *was* oerjan
23:01:26 <oerjan> plot twist, it was elliott.
23:01:37 <Taneb> oerjan, goodbye universe
23:02:14 <oerjan> oh right
23:02:38 <oerjan> in an alternative universe, it was elliott. r.i.p. universe.
23:10:36 <olsner> r.i.p.? why did the universe die?
23:10:52 <Taneb> olsner, elliott and I came into contact
23:11:06 <olsner> oh, is that what happens when that happens?
23:11:11 <Taneb> Yeah
23:11:44 <olsner> lucky we have these alternate universes then
23:13:45 <Taneb> In some alternate universes, alternate universes don't exist
23:14:01 <olsner> "Our bonus program is not frosting, it is part of the cake." makes it sound like it's not a bonus program at all
23:18:04 <olsner> (mozilla)
23:24:59 <oerjan> fungot: are you from irc?
23:24:59 <fungot> oerjan: transcribed from the fnord: he fnord the chain, that fnord the pin: he fnord the words " this is fnord phrase i had learned from the fnord fnord: to be taken up. " from your point of view, that is,
23:25:28 <ais523> clearly we need a version of fungot that lives entirely on the blockchain
23:25:28 <fungot> ais523: then, with a fnord hand, and we eagerly followed." " i doubt if even muriel would run away from one of them had got a moth's wing to fnord great brown moth's wing, oo know, and so he didn't want the other caterpillar to see the lion and the unicorn
23:25:34 <oerjan> i think that response may have been redacted.
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