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00:00:35 <ais523> b_jonas: I was reading a blog about names recently
00:00:42 <b_jonas> Though of course some given names are ever popular
00:01:20 <ais523> apparently something unusual has happened recently, which is that one name has become in the top 10 of popularity in a huge number of different countries, rather than countries keeping to their own traditional names
00:01:25 <b_jonas> ais523: http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2012-05-30.2050.html#d.2012-05-30.2050 is one
00:02:16 <b_jonas> ais523: which name? is it the name used by someone very famous? like Barack?
00:02:26 <ais523> b_jonas: Sofia, and variations (e.g. Sophie)
00:02:49 <ais523> I think Sofia is the most common worldwide spelling although different countries still have their own local spellings of it
00:03:12 <b_jonas> sure, and many countries have more than one local spelling of any one name
00:03:33 <b_jonas> that happens a lot here, with both family names and given names, though for somewhat different reasons
00:03:50 <fizzie> ais523: "Sofia" was the #1 female child name in Finland for 2014.
00:04:29 <ais523> fizzie: right, that's true of a lot of other countries too
00:04:31 <b_jonas> family names mostly come in versions spelled phonetically like Kis, and versions spelled in a deliberately strange way, like Kiss, the latter often orinally used to try to fool people that you're a nobleman
00:04:32 <fizzie> I doubt it's in the top 10 overall yet, though.
00:05:02 <b_jonas> so a lot of family names have two variants like that, sometimes three or more
00:05:19 <ais523> b_jonas: have people moved to Kisss yet?
00:05:37 <b_jonas> ais523: no, I don't think so. the strange spellings are all old, I don't think new ones are born much.
00:05:48 <b_jonas> not those kinds of strange spellings at least.
00:06:22 <hppavilion> If I legally change my name, I'll be named kisssssssssssssss
00:06:53 <fizzie> For currently living female Finns, Sofia as ranks #16.
00:07:11 <ais523> fizzie: right, this only happened in the past few years
00:07:24 <b_jonas> As for given names, there's multiple variants either because there's more than one borrowings from foreign languages of ultimately the same etymology, or because people start to give names that were originally nicknames of a name as a normal name.
00:08:23 <b_jonas> The most common example for the latter are Gergő and Bence.
00:08:41 <b_jonas> I'm not sure about the former.
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01:39:34 <pikhq> I think "ebf" by I don't know who is one of the more impressive "extended brainfuck" or "brainfuck macro" things I've seen.
01:39:57 <pikhq> ... Just because its only implementation is an ebf to Brainfuck commpiler.
01:40:19 <pikhq> ebf to Brainfuck self-hosting compiler.
01:40:23 <ais523> what's the impl written in?
01:40:27 <ais523> right, was going to say
01:40:32 <ais523> next problem is, who's going to bootstrap that thing?
01:40:36 <pikhq> I mean okay, it's otherwise not *that* impressive, but props on making it self-host.
01:40:52 <pikhq> The author did. The initial implementation was hand-compiled.
01:41:16 <pikhq> Yeah, but awib is not compiling a more complicated language. :)
01:42:41 <pikhq> Oh. And also, this wasn't the guy's goal, just a step on the way to his real goal of implementing Lisp.
01:43:03 <ais523> oh, I'd go via underlambda if I wanted a lisp in BF
01:45:23 <ais523> also, IIRC Chaitin wrote a lisp interpreter as a Diophantine equation
01:45:24 <pikhq> Basically what I'm saying is I really prefer it when people strap stuff onto Brainfuck to make it "more" and actually put some effort into it.
01:45:38 <ais523> and it's only like one page of coefficients
01:45:51 <ais523> pikhq: you can flip that around to "BF derivatives are most interesting when there's effort put into them"
01:45:58 <ais523> or at least a good idea
01:46:09 <ais523> I think when http://esolangs.org/wiki/PaintFuck was posted, #esoteric was approving of the idea
01:46:11 <pikhq> There are way too many boring ones.
01:46:28 <ais523> maybe I misremembered the caps
01:46:33 <ais523> yep: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Paintfuck
01:46:58 <pikhq> Maybe not the best but at least novel.
01:47:27 <ais523> yes, we liked the novelty of the idea
01:47:31 <pikhq> Rather than, say, Ook. :(
01:47:49 <ais523> that was novel at the time
01:48:01 <ais523> it was probably the first BF substitution
01:48:09 <pikhq> Oh, it was the first? Or at least super early?
01:48:15 <ais523> first language substitution full stop, in fact, IIRC
01:48:24 <pikhq> Okay, that's a lot less terrible then.
01:48:28 <ais523> people liked it, but the third and fourth time and so on it doesn't work nearly as well
01:48:44 <pikhq> It's a joke that works about once.
01:48:45 <ais523> "It represents the first, although unfortunately not the last, in a long line of trivial Brainfuck command substitutions."
01:48:59 <ais523> meanwhile, HQ9+ is apparently a joke that only works three times
01:49:15 <ais523> (HQ9++ and the oerjan variant with a bunch more commands)
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01:51:54 <pikhq> Also, SSRI discontinuation syndrome sucks. :(
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02:16:41 <ais523> hmm, the costumer service have sent me another bank statement
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02:17:11 <ais523> that's quite a persistent typo-based spam account
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02:18:08 <oerjan> oh it wasn't your typo?
02:19:24 <oerjan> `learn Costumes are used for cosplay. Taneb sometimes invents them.
02:19:29 <HackEgo> Learned 'costume': Costumes are used for cosplay. Taneb sometimes invents them.
02:19:41 <oerjan> an entirely true wisdom for once.
02:19:53 <HackEgo> Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people.
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02:22:37 <oerjan> shachaf: my attempts at dualizing `? cosplay is leaving me in a labyrinth of horrible grammar help
02:23:46 <shachaf> oerjan: maybe you would find it easier to write an entry for cosplay tree hth
02:31:26 <boily> isn't a cosplay its self-dual?
02:32:02 <\oren\> I'm attempting to draw U+261A to 261F
02:42:56 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, robots, cigars, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
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02:46:10 <shachaf> Taneb: so BDSM is out but how does Taneb feel about dominance and submission in non-sexual contexts twh
02:51:12 * boily strops his mapole for maximum accuracy
02:51:40 * oerjan guards with the saucepan
02:51:40 <boily> explain, or I mapole an innocent bystander!
02:51:45 <shachaf> boily: "seems plausible to me" hth
02:51:57 <boily> thanks, innocent bystander!
02:52:18 <oerjan> does shachaf have the hth nature
02:53:36 <fungot> boily: apparently the fastest known way to send commands to it directly) connected to a time earlier than the other way
02:54:43 <oerjan> fungot appears to be contemplating sending commands across time
02:54:43 <fungot> oerjan: too fnord it's probably closest to my ideal, only it's designed more efficiently and to take more master server ips, they could just use the first one
02:55:45 <oerjan> which leads me to the epiphany that fungot's parentheses are actually perfectly matched, just not in the usual chronological order
02:55:45 <fungot> oerjan: all the verizon and covad techs ( or contractors) i've dealt with in irc channels
02:56:10 <MDude> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-English-based_programming_languages
02:58:32 <shachaf> oerjan: i'm ppwm for figuring out so many oerjacronyms
02:59:17 <lambdabot> KBJC 310247Z 34003KT 20SM SCT060 BKN080 M08/M13 A3012
02:59:38 <oerjan> that is pretty cold for california
03:00:13 <shachaf> I'm not in California. HTH.
03:00:55 <shachaf> Maybe I'm giving away too much geographical information there.
03:01:00 <lambdabot> KSEA 310253Z 04008KT 10SM CLR 02/M04 A3045 RMK AO2 SLP323 T00171039 51008
03:02:10 <oerjan> don't worry, no one will ever discover you're in port townsend
03:04:34 <earenndil> port townsend? Oh, I live relatively close to there
03:04:47 <lambdabot> KSJC 310253Z 27006KT 10SM FEW013 SCT024 BKN036 09/05 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP231 T00890050 52006
03:04:56 <pikhq> That's rather a lot more useful knowledge to me.
03:04:59 <oerjan> earenndil: see if you can spot shachaf nearby hth
03:05:53 <earenndil> Eh, I'm not close enough for it to be convenient to visit
03:06:07 <shachaf> I'll be in Seattle on Friday.
03:06:17 <shachaf> Are you traveling to California soon?
03:06:21 <pikhq> shachaf: Since when were you not in California?
03:06:37 <\oren\> I drew ☕ as a takeout coffee cup but it's apparently supposed to be a mug!
03:06:52 <shachaf> But in this case since the 24th or so.
03:07:07 <earenndil> shachaf: I said I'm *near* Seattle, I still have to take a ferry to go to seattle
03:07:20 <pikhq> Stupid vacation times.
03:07:46 <shachaf> The Bainbridge ferry, presumably.
03:08:12 <pikhq> oerjan: I have spotted a wild shachaf before.
03:08:24 <boily> he\\oren\. I think you can enthicken 快.
03:08:27 <pikhq> He is very shachaf.
03:08:44 <\oren\> whatever the unicode name is "HOT BEVERAGE". A 7-11 style coffee cup is a hot beverage.
03:09:37 <oerjan> boily: i see you are using cromulent words
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03:10:39 <\oren\> does europe have 7-11 yet?
03:16:04 <shachaf> pikhq: not as much as some people hth
03:16:13 <oerjan> heh, wiktionary has an 1884 quotation for "embiggen"
03:17:25 <oerjan> \oren\: there were a ridiculous number in trondheim last i checked.
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03:17:48 <oerjan> which was a while ago.
03:18:14 <\oren\> cool, therefore a coffee cup of the style I drew should be recognizable to people everywhere
03:19:05 <\oren\> for a given value of everywhere
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03:23:12 <hppavilion> Rectangular Geometry: A two parallel lines intersect infinitely many times and have two 90 degree angles.
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03:24:36 <fcrawl> splay is the art of dressing up as copeople to show off to other copeople dressed up as copeople. it is used for stumes
03:29:43 <\oren\> half-spheric geometry: all points above the x axis have spheric curvature, below the x axis zero curvature
03:32:17 <\oren\> this would mean that any two parallel lines which are not horizontal, would meet exactly ONCE
03:33:42 <\oren\> equivalently, the "line at infinity" parallel to the x axis is compressed to a point
03:34:05 <\oren\> but only the line above the x axis, not the one below
03:37:09 <\oren\> this could be modeled by the line at infinity below the x axis being a circle, minus one point, which is the line at infinity above. a circle inside, touching the outer circle only at that point, is the x axis
03:38:09 <\oren\> wait that;s not equivalent
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04:59:01 <FreeFull> \oren\: Would half-toroidal geometry be equivalent to a finite cylinder?
05:00:34 <coppro> if it's what I think you mean, yeah, it's just a cylinder
05:03:30 <FreeFull> What about geometry on the flat unit klein bottle?
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05:09:13 <FreeFull> coppro: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Klein_Bottle_Folding_1.svg This is the diagram for the klein bottle
05:11:29 <coppro> FreeFull: that's different from a torus
05:11:41 <coppro> a torus has the top and bottom edges aligned the same way
05:12:06 <coppro> as a consequence, a klein bottle is orientable while a torus is not
05:12:11 <FreeFull> coppro: Yeah, I was asking about something else now
05:12:17 <FreeFull> And you've got that the wrong way around, the torus is orientable
05:12:57 <FreeFull> On the klein bottle, you can have self-intersecting lines
05:13:19 <FreeFull> I'm not sure what restraints apply to parallel lines
05:14:30 <coppro> what do you mean by "restraints"?
05:15:41 <coppro> what do you even define parallel to mean on such a surface?
05:23:07 <FreeFull> Parallel is easy enough thanks to no curvature
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05:24:09 <FreeFull> I think the number of times the parallel lines intersect though changes depending on the angles
05:24:26 <FreeFull> There is no rotational invariance
05:28:52 <coppro> if you view the surface as a sphere with a small crosscap
05:29:03 <coppro> you can change the number of intersections with the crosscap by rotation
05:29:12 <coppro> so basically yeah, that
05:37:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Your Minsky May Vary]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46037 * Ais523 * (+3545) new language
05:37:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46038&oldid=45964 * Ais523 * (+27) /* Y */ +[[Your Minsky May Vary]]
05:38:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46039&oldid=45827 * Ais523 * (+26) +[[Your Minsky May Vary]]
05:38:35 <ais523> name was too good an opportunity to pass up, language hopefully isn't /terrible/
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05:46:41 <ais523> I'm worried it has java2k syndrome but it seems at least to be a bit more interesting than that
05:47:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Three Star Programmer]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46040&oldid=45763 * Ais523 * (-1) /* Syntax */ fix typo
06:08:50 <zzo38> Now my card file database has the section for general-purpose comments too.
06:14:21 <zzo38> How do I do it so that when Firefox ask for the username and password that it will display additional information too (such as the authentication type and root URIs and so on)?
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06:58:11 <izabera> ian murdock died last night
06:58:44 <zzo38> Yes I read that on another IRC too
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07:08:27 <zzo38> Do you think that the wisdom file for "zzo38mtg.php" should also specify account registrations?
07:13:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Quintopia]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46041&oldid=45569 * Quintopia * (+30) /* Interpreters written in Python */
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07:19:29 <HackEgo> http://zzo38computer.org/mtg/cardfile.php
07:28:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Purple]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46042&oldid=45601 * Quintopia * (+1495) /* Implementations */
07:28:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Portable Minsky Machine Notation]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46043&oldid=45822 * Ais523 * (+58) /* See also */ mention the derivative
07:28:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Purple]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46044&oldid=46042 * Quintopia * (+2) /* Ceylon */
07:28:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Purple]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46045&oldid=46044 * Quintopia * (+2) /* Pyth */
07:31:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Purple]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46047&oldid=46046 * Quintopia * (+4) /* Pyth */
07:43:45 <zzo38> It fails to answer the question?
08:04:26 <hppavilion> A hybrid of the Silo model and the Filesystem model
08:05:12 <zzo38> Which is then working how?
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09:05:45 <hppavilion> What do you guys think of an OS based on objects and classes?
09:06:59 <hppavilion> Basically, the OS has a central repository of user-defined classes, along with a single list of objects. You start with nothing and work up from there, using λ-calculus and CL and whatever other shit I throw into it to fully personalize your OS experience
09:07:00 <zzo38> Well, you can try, and then we can see, I suppose.
09:42:26 <b_jonas> “fully personalize your OS experience” hehehe
09:44:14 <b_jonas> hppavilion: that sounds a little bit like Smalltalk, as in the way the system was originally built to contain the library and development UI and your code in all the same mutable workspace, defined from a few hundred primitive functions and syntax. (this was, I think, a bad idea, but it made more sense back at that day, and some APL thingies worked somewhat similarly.)
09:44:27 <b_jonas> \ defined from a few hundred primitive functions and syntax. (this was, I think, a bad idea, but it made more sense back at that day, and some APL thingies worked somewhat similarly.)
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09:46:21 <ais523> b_jonas: and likewise, it sounds a bit like Feather, for similar reasons
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12:07:48 <HackEgo> A photograph is a device for creating photograms.
12:09:12 <HackEgo> [U+3053 HIRAGANA LETTER KO] [U+3053 HIRAGANA LETTER KO] [U+304C HIRAGANA LETTER GA] [U+51FA CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-51FA] [U+306D HIRAGANA LETTER NE]
12:11:24 <HackEgo> [U+3053 HIRAGANA LETTER KO] [U+3053 HIRAGANA LETTER KO] [U+304C HIRAGANA LETTER GA] [U+3067 HIRAGANA LETTER DE] [U+306D HIRAGANA LETTER NE]
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13:02:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46048&oldid=46038 * 126.96.36.199 * (+14) /* F */
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14:38:08 <\oren\> OMG it was ganondorf behind it all alang... again
14:39:17 <b_jonas> \oren\: duh. ganondorf was behind letting V escape too. he could cast spells even as a ghost.
14:41:27 <coppro> pls no starwars spoilers
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14:47:40 <lifthrasiir> okay, https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/ is now in the public domain
14:49:31 <izabera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack "For example, a person frequenting citibank.com may be lured to click a link in which the Latin C is replaced with the Cyrillic С."
14:52:03 <lifthrasiir> izabera: not only spam, e.g. a tweet with that link may survive without being detected
14:52:39 <izabera> the example itself on wikipedia
14:54:03 <izabera> citibank spam on wikipedia
14:54:45 <Phantom_Hoover> izabera, seems reasonable, this isn't the bbc we're talking about
14:55:26 <izabera> btw your font totally fails to avoid homograph attacks in the korean characters
14:55:36 <izabera> altho my eyes are not trained to read korean
14:56:10 <lifthrasiir> izabera: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IDN_homograph_attack&diff=383860153&oldid=383859096 is the initial introduction
14:56:20 <izabera> and i'm assuming it's korean
14:56:26 <lifthrasiir> not sure why citibank is used in the example but does not look that significant
14:56:41 <lifthrasiir> izabera: there are some hard cases, I know
14:58:18 <izabera> i don't read braille either but i think the font should only display the black dots
14:58:39 <izabera> displaying both is confusing
15:01:30 <lifthrasiir> izabera: people seems to like brailles, that is the second time I've heard of criticism on braille
15:02:00 <lifthrasiir> I'm thinking of providing an option to give alternative glyphs for them
15:03:09 <b_jonas> Of course I like brailles! It's a well-designed system that managed to get more popular than all its competitors, so basically it's a story with a happy end. And
15:03:40 <lifthrasiir> of course, Unicode ruined braille by merging two variants of 8-dot brailles
15:04:02 <b_jonas> it's stood the test of time: braille is still popular now that we write it with thousand dollar braille terminals connected to the internet rather than a grid and stylus, and it still works.
15:04:28 <b_jonas> lifthrasiir: I don't think it _merged_ them. I think it just failed to account for the less common variant, so far, because it's not much popular.
15:04:45 <lifthrasiir> b_jonas: Korean braille is almost based on 1930s' Korean orthography
15:05:31 <b_jonas> I don't know enough about the back story here to understand this.
15:05:51 <lifthrasiir> b_jonas: a reply to "it's stood the test of time", I meant
15:06:18 <b_jonas> Isn't Korean braille a 6-dot system where generally each letter is written separately so that each syllable is made of two or three cells, except that there's a lot of abbreviations so it's generally shorter than that?
15:06:21 <lifthrasiir> it is so successful that it changes slowly than its normal variant
15:06:51 <lifthrasiir> b_jonas: basically yes, but has lots of abbreviations like English braille
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15:08:01 <lifthrasiir> 1930s' orthography is that ㄲ ㄸ ㅃ etc. are written as ㅅㄱ, ㅅㄷ, ㅅㅂ etc. at that time and the braille forms for them exactly reflect that
15:08:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jamesmorrison * New user account
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15:16:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CAT]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46049&oldid=30154 * Jamesmorrison * (+29)
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16:01:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Your Minsky May Vary]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46050 * LegionMammal978 * (+182) Created page with "Can there be whitespace between counter numbers, such as `inc(3 | 4)`? ~~~~"
16:02:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Your Minsky May Vary]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46051&oldid=46050 * LegionMammal978 * (+11) whoops
16:08:58 -!- Taneb has joined.
16:09:09 <Taneb> My client crashed and I lost all my channels :(
16:10:12 <Taneb> On both my client and my bouncer!
16:10:56 <Taneb> I'm still missing a few that I can't quite remember...
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16:13:32 <FireFly> With a name that punny I can only assume YMMV is an ais523 language
16:13:48 <FireFly> and also the connection to Minsky machines of course
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17:04:12 <b_jonas> oh! that language is one where it might be a serious problem that you don't have gotos, only while and if
17:04:21 -!- oerjan has joined.
17:06:13 <b_jonas> myname: you don't have variables (boolean or enum) you can reliably set, clear, and test, so you can't use them to control the control flow of while loops
17:07:00 <b_jonas> unlike in the original Portable Minsky
17:14:06 <fizzie> Taneb: Now that I'm in your country, should I know something important about the new year's traditions?
17:14:47 <fizzie> So far I've understood it's not so much about fireworks as it was in Finland, but maybe as much about drinking (if possible).
17:15:03 <fizzie> At least the alcohol aisles at the shop were unusually busy.
17:15:39 <Taneb> fizzie, well, we normally sing a song at midnight that's in Scottish and everyone seems to know the lyrics to
17:15:59 <Taneb> There are fireworks in the big cities but not many
17:16:07 <Taneb> And champagne is traditionally drank at midnight
17:16:54 <fizzie> That Auld Lang Syne thing, right.
17:20:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: I seem to have stopped.).
17:21:00 <lambdabot> ENVA 311650Z 15019KT CAVOK 03/M06 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 15024G38KT
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17:21:07 <lambdabot> ENVA 311650Z 15019KT CAVOK 03/M06 Q1012 RMK WIND 670FT 15024G38KT
17:21:32 <oerjan> which part tells that it's a storm again
17:22:11 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit).
17:24:05 <oerjan> apparently the 019KT part
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17:53:31 <Taneb> It happened again :(
17:54:20 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
17:54:36 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
17:54:52 <oerjan> Taneb: lucky nothing really happened
17:55:31 <Taneb> Well, I lost all my channels
17:55:53 <oerjan> surely only #esoteric counts hth
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18:16:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TeaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46052&oldid=45198 * 188.8.131.52 * (+142)
18:18:05 <fizzie> oerjan: It's actually 19KT.
18:18:10 <fizzie> oerjan: the 0 is part of 150, the direction.
18:18:26 <fizzie> Heading 150 degrees, speed 19 knots.
18:18:38 <lambdabot> EGLL 311750Z AUTO 22012KT 9999 -RA SCT015/// BKN028/// OVC045/// //////CB 08/05 Q1014 NOSIG
18:18:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[TeaScript]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46053&oldid=46052 * 184.108.40.206 * (-9)
18:19:13 <oerjan> what happens if the direction is less than 100
18:19:23 <fizzie> I think that part's zero-padded, then.
18:19:30 <fizzie> I don't know what happens if speed is more than 99.
18:19:39 <lambdabot> EGLL 311750Z AUTO 22012KT 9999 -RA SCT015/// BKN028/// OVC045/// //////CB 08/05 Q1014 NOSIG
18:19:47 <lambdabot> EFHK 311750Z 12009KT 9999 FEW014 M04/M06 Q1035 NOSIG
18:19:55 <fizzie> Well, it's >= 100 there too.
18:21:28 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METAR#Example_METAR_codes seems to indicate the speed is zero-padded if less than 10
18:22:06 <fizzie> 19 knots isn't much of a storm, to be honest.
18:22:51 <fizzie> There was supposed to be some sort of a storm here, but it was only the northern bits.
18:23:07 <oerjan> maybe it wasn't blowing that much right then.
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18:24:22 <fizzie> The UK flood warning map has been very lively recently.
18:25:03 <fizzie> https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/map
18:25:19 -!- Froox has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:25:38 <fizzie> "95 Warnings no longer in force - flood warnings and flood alerts removed in the last 24 hours" guess it's getting better
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18:26:42 <oerjan> well there was a picture of cameron visiting flooding in york in a norwegian newspaper
18:27:19 <oerjan> Taneb: so is your student apartment under water twnh
18:29:09 <fizzie> Maybe that's why their IRC keeps going down.
18:29:14 <oerjan> Taneb: hey maybe you're disconnecting because the server ... right
18:29:59 <oerjan> i expect they've probably put the university somewhere high, though
18:31:14 <b_jonas> oerjan: huhwhat? our university is quite law, so it's flooded often.
18:31:22 <fizzie> Ours in Finland is pretty near the sea, too. The road next to the CS building is occasionally under water.
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18:31:36 <b_jonas> it's the Országos Széchényi Könyvtár that is up high on a hill.
18:31:42 <fizzie> I don't think they've actually gotten water into any buildings though.
18:32:19 <b_jonas> well, the flood doesn't go up to the tenth floors of the high buildings, it's just the basements that are regularly flooded, but that's enough of a problem.
18:32:52 -!- perrier____ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:33:07 <b_jonas> also, since it's so close to the river, the ground isn't too stable, so one of the buildings (Ch) started to dangerously twist when they digged the metro tunnel under it.
18:33:22 <b_jonas> the university blamed the tunnel builders of doing something wrong and causing too much vibrations.
18:34:05 <b_jonas> oerjan: it's named in honor of Széchényi Ferenc, the son of Széchenyi István, because he has had something to do with starting a library and supporting it with some of his money or something like that
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18:36:34 <b_jonas> reference https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orsz%C3%A1gos_Sz%C3%A9ch%C3%A9nyi_K%C3%B6nyvt%C3%A1r#T.C3.B6rt.C3.A9nete
18:36:44 <b_jonas> and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Sz%C3%A9ch%C3%A9nyi_Library#History
18:37:03 <b_jonas> it's either the biggest or the second biggest library in Hungary
18:46:30 <Taneb> oerjan, my student flat is not underwater as far as I know
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18:46:42 <Taneb> Neither, for that matter, is the server
18:48:23 <oerjan> b_jonas: s/son/father/, i take.
18:48:25 <Taneb> Turns out one of the admins on the server (ran by the CS society at my uni) was fiddling with the ZNC install trying to get it to work with HTTPS
18:48:42 <Taneb> Which, to be fair, it now does
18:49:42 <b_jonas> oerjan: ah right! he's the FATHER of Széchenyi István. That actually makes _much_ more sense historically.
18:50:01 <b_jonas> As in, he was active _before_ the dualism.
18:50:07 <b_jonas> Sorry, I'm not good in history.
18:51:17 <b_jonas> I should have known this, it's not like the Károlyi family, which has like a dozen famous people in it, including minister presidents, and statues with just "Károlyi" written on them; plus a dozen other famous people named Károlyi who aren't related to them.
18:52:42 <oerjan> now i wonder why the son dropped a ´
18:53:38 <oerjan> the pronunciation guide at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Istv%C3%A1n_Sz%C3%A9chenyi seems to think it's still pronounced long
18:54:20 <b_jonas> oerjan: at that time people didn't have passports with a name printed in them, so the spelling of names of noblemen was more flexible.
18:54:35 <b_jonas> and yes, both are pronounced Szécsényi
18:54:55 <b_jonas> at least most likely pronounced that
18:55:06 <b_jonas> some people probably pronounced it in different ways
18:57:16 <fizzie> There's an Iain M. Banks novel where your social class determines how many names you have -- nobles have one, two seems relatively common, and having four names seems to be considered an indicator of low social status.
19:08:29 <quintopia> dammit i can't remember the name of the stupid command to show all pings
19:08:59 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
19:09:27 <izabera> fuck you stupid bot for telling me to use a command that did nothing
19:10:22 <lambdabot> activity base bf check compose dice dict djinn dummy elite eval filter free fresh haddock help hoogle instances irc karma localtime metar more oeis offlineRC pl pointful poll pretty quote search slap source spell system tell ticker todo topic type undo unlambda unmtl version where
19:10:49 <lambdabot> a(n) = 6a(n-1) - a(n-2), with a(0) = 0 and a(1) = 2.[0,2,12,70,408,2378,1386...
19:11:02 <HackEgo> mothology/Mothology is the study of moths, myths and mirths.
19:11:37 <quintopia> WOW SO USEFUL THX FOR USEFUL DOCS LAMBDABOT
19:11:47 <lambdabot> You have QuickCheck and 3 seconds. Prove something.
19:12:47 <lambdabot> . [or compose] is the composition of two plugins
19:12:47 <lambdabot> The following semantics are used: . f g xs == g xs >>= f
19:14:01 <oerjan> @@ is usually more convenient
19:15:20 <shachaf> oerjan: the obvious conclusion is that `learn should be a-separated hth
19:15:25 <b_jonas> oerjan: buubot has a more general composition method. I took part in defining and implementing that one.
19:15:31 <b_jonas> lambdabot's compose is limited
19:15:48 <lambdabot> spell <word>. Show spelling of word
19:16:04 <lambdabot> Plugin `spell' failed with: aspell: readCreateProcessWithExitCode: runInteractiveProcess: exec: does not exist (No such file or directory)
19:16:16 <b_jonas> In buubot, you can interplate the result of a command anywhere inside a command line.
19:17:12 <b_jonas> That together with a quoting command and an eval (inside sandbox) command lets you glue buubot commands together in basically any way you like.
19:17:40 <b_jonas> (The quoting command lets you quote _any_ string output such that you can embed it as a literal in a program you eval.
19:17:56 <b_jonas> We also have persistency, and macros with arguments.
19:18:23 <b_jonas> Well, not quite arguments, only one string argument really, with convenience for whitespace-splitting.
19:29:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Schrodilang]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46054&oldid=31108 * 220.127.116.11 * (+10)
19:37:39 * b_jonas checks if the Esowiki has a language called [] yet
19:38:00 <b_jonas> well, I guess you still have time. we're faster these days than last year.
19:40:04 <myname> is the 2016 binary ready?
19:48:41 <oerjan> b_jonas: um that's what lambdabot's @@ does
19:49:17 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
19:49:22 <lambdabot> @@ executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used.
19:49:22 <lambdabot> The commands are right associative.
19:49:22 <lambdabot> is the same as: @@ (@pl (@undo code))
19:50:25 <b_jonas> oerjan: I don't think so, unless the help doesn't tell everything. it doesn't tell how to quote arbitrary output, or how to put arbitrary strings including at signs and parenthesis in the commands
19:51:14 <b_jonas> maybe lambdabot can do all that, but if so, I have no idea how
19:52:21 <shachaf> oerjan: in the vein of le/rn le//rn etc.
19:52:30 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
19:52:33 <lambdabot> quote <nick>: Quote <nick> or a random person if no nick is given
19:53:50 <b_jonas> and how do you put arbitrary at signs into the command?
19:54:20 <oerjan> a bit trickier, but you can do it with @run
19:54:27 <lambdabot> run <expr>. You have Haskell, 3 seconds and no IO. Go nuts!
19:54:50 <b_jonas> maybe lambdabot is better than I thought
19:54:54 <oerjan> there is a rather big limitation in @run's output length, alas
19:54:55 <b_jonas> thanks for telling about @show at least
19:55:05 <b_jonas> does it also have mutable state?
19:55:43 <b_jonas> it might be write-once but that can probably be worked around
19:55:45 <oerjan> there _used_ to be a @read command that undid @show, but that was removed
19:56:08 <b_jonas> oerjan: that isn't really needed, you can just @run write or something like that
19:56:14 <oerjan> oh right, you cannot get to everything else inside @run
19:56:42 <oerjan> yeah var is the way to do it now
19:56:58 <shachaf> this was done through @@ @run trickery
19:57:41 <b_jonas> I think buubot has a rather long output limit internally, as in, the output between commands in a compose line, or the def of a factoid/macro (which is what mutable state is based on) can be much longer than an irc line (probably at least 64 kilobytes or something)
19:57:51 <b_jonas> even if it won't output long lines to _IRC_
19:58:01 <b_jonas> it had a web interface though, with both longer input and output lines than irc
19:58:08 <oerjan> shachaf: pretty sure i've done similar
19:58:13 <b_jonas> but technically you don't need that much, since with mutable state you can just use multiple lines
19:58:39 <shachaf> oerjan: I did the original blah++ing, but ion was the one who brought it to that particular number. Unless I'm misremembering.
19:58:41 <b_jonas> buubot's syntax is sort of both useful and esoteric
19:58:50 <shachaf> @karma shachaf is mostly your fault
19:59:17 <oerjan> b_jonas: quite possibly lambdabot's internal limit is higher, but still not unlimited.
19:59:18 -!- ^v has joined.
19:59:20 <shachaf> http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/2012-12-29.txt 19:13
19:59:29 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit).
19:59:37 <oerjan> the output limit is higher in privmsg, after all
19:59:51 <b_jonas> I don't recall what the length limits are in buubot
20:02:28 <oerjan> given that @run's output is sometimes nominally infinite, there has to be
20:08:06 -!- earenndil has changed nick to Elronnd.
20:12:59 <oerjan> izabera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack "For example, a person frequenting citibank.com may be lured to click a link in which the Latin C is replaced with the Cyrillic С." <-- brb, registering .сom
20:24:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[CAT]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46055&oldid=46049 * Oerjan * (-29) Undo revision 46049 by [[Special:Contributions/Jamesmorrison|Jamesmorrison]] ([[User talk:Jamesmorrison|talk]]) (Seems like spam)
20:24:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:Jamesmorrison]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
20:26:28 <oerjan> unusually clever, though, the link had a url and was placed in a spot that easily _could_ have been non-spam.
20:26:57 <oerjan> so i actually had to risk visiting it to check
20:29:02 <oerjan> i hope other people are sometimes checking things, i've basically dropped esolangs.org from what i follow closely until i catch up to some other sites
20:29:17 <oerjan> the backlog was just too big.
20:30:41 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) != "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
20:31:36 <oerjan> soon it will be useful!
20:32:30 -!- hppavilion has joined.
20:33:03 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
20:33:14 <izabera> i made it useful like you wanted
20:33:32 * oerjan beats izabera senseless with the saucepan ===\__/
20:33:49 <oerjan> YOU RUINED IT WHEN THERE WERE JUST HOURS LEFT
20:34:00 <shachaf> oerjan: what if it used %G wth
20:34:09 <oerjan> no idea what that means
20:36:01 * oerjan is reminded of that flower in the dennis the menace movie
20:36:40 <HackEgo> inventory/An inventory is a collection of inventions.
20:37:04 <shachaf> `` date -d '2016-01-01' +'%Y %G'
20:37:21 <shachaf> `` date -d '2016-01-03' +'%Y %G'
20:37:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dateu: not found
20:37:26 <shachaf> `` date -d '2016-01-04' +'%Y %G'
20:37:34 <b_jonas> oh, I don't have that alias here
20:37:40 <fizzie> `` for i in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do date --date=2016-01-0$i +"2016-01-0$i: %G"; done
20:37:41 <HackEgo> 2016-01-01: 2015 \ 2016-01-02: 2015 \ 2016-01-03: 2015 \ 2016-01-04: 2016 \ 2016-01-05: 2016 \ 2016-01-06: 2016
20:38:02 <fizzie> It's the year attached to the week number given by %V.
20:38:13 <fizzie> Week numbers: so complicated.
20:39:28 <oerjan> i always hated those since i could never remember when they were
20:39:34 <HackEgo> 2015-12-31 20:39:32.075129000+00:00
20:39:39 <HackEgo> 2015-12-31 20:39:36.267839000+00:00
20:39:44 <b_jonas> ah great, I have datei, just not dateu
20:39:57 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ exec date --rfc-3=n "$@"
20:40:34 <b_jonas> ``` echo $'#!/bin/sh\nexec date --rfc-3=n -u "$@"' > bin/dateu && chmod a+x bin/dateu
20:40:39 <HackEgo> 2015-12-31 20:40:36.938618000+00:00
20:40:41 <HackEgo> 2015-12-31 20:40:38.926797000+00:00
20:40:58 <b_jonas> mind you, it makes no difference because HackEgo is set to UTC timezone by default
20:42:53 <fizzie> The one good thing about living in the UK: times in UTC are local for at least part of the year.
20:43:00 <fizzie> Now if they'd get rid of DST too.
20:43:56 <izabera> which timezone is the other one where utc is local for part of the year?
20:44:17 <b_jonas> izabera: -1 (in one of the notations. time zones are notated in two opposite ways.)
20:44:30 <b_jonas> izabera: the one almost nobody uses that is, because it's in the atlantic
20:44:44 <b_jonas> izabera: most of Europe is on +1, which is +2 in most of the year actually, but +1 now in the winter
20:45:05 <fizzie> There isn't much where it's like that summer-only.
20:45:10 <izabera> not sure why but i kinda hoped it was +1 because i live there but it wouldn't change my life in the slightest way but still
20:46:41 <fizzie> Iceland is permanently UTC-local.
20:47:50 <fizzie> (And many countries in Africa, I'm just being eurocentric.)
20:52:01 <fizzie> Somehow I always think of Iceland being very far up north, even though it isn't really.
20:59:30 <b_jonas> that's actually Greenland, and it's very far up west, not north
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21:16:49 <hppavilion> Also, a complex operation called (for now) "swapation"
21:17:23 <hppavilion> If $ is swapation (prefix, lower precedence than +), then $a+bi = b+ai
21:18:04 <hppavilion> The only obvious properties I can think of of $ are:
21:18:53 <hppavilion> A) c+di = $a+bi -> sqrt(a**2+b**2) = sqrt(c**2+d**2)
21:19:25 <hppavilion> (More simply, the swapation of a complex number has the same absolute value, which is of course different from modulus because calling abs(z) the "modulus" of z is stupid)
21:20:08 <hppavilion> B) $$z=z ($ is its own negation, similar to conjugate)
21:20:37 <hppavilion> I saw the first time and was formulating a response
21:21:20 <hppavilion> oerjan: Do you think there's any practical use for $?
21:21:40 <oerjan> well it's not analytic
21:22:01 <oerjan> and it's not a field isomorphism
21:23:18 <oerjan> so it combines the flaws of i* and conj(). also in math conj() is usually just a macron, so the notation isn't really shorter either
21:23:30 <hppavilion> There's also $ for generalized polynomials, called "rotation", with the property that $(ax**n+ax**(n-1)+...a[n]x**(n-n=0) is equal to... something
21:23:51 <hppavilion> I guess that you rotate the a's by one, but not the exponents, or vice versa
21:24:06 <hppavilion> Then of course ~$, revrot, which does the same thing in reverse
21:24:45 <hppavilion> oerjan: Yes, but is there any time one would ever want to swapate a binomial (complex or not)?
21:25:20 <hppavilion> I mean, is there any use for i*conj(z) that comes up even remotely often?
21:25:50 <hppavilion> oerjan: Also, what do you think of fuzzy sets where the fuzziness of an element is generalized to the complexes?
21:26:37 <oerjan> i doubt it comes up often enough to justify a new notation.
21:27:19 <oerjan> especially since if you are doing that kind of manipulation, it's probably better to keep everything in terms of z and conj(z) for uniformity
21:27:36 <oerjan> (as long as you want to use complex notation)
21:28:03 <hppavilion> oerjan: OK, but if I ever write a paper that makes heavy use of i*(z*) I'm using $.
21:29:42 <hppavilion> oerjan: Why do you do "OKAY" in fullcaps? It makes you look angry.
21:29:49 <oerjan> as for your polynomial version, one problem i see is that it depends on whether a coefficient is 0 or not.
21:30:10 <oerjan> i.e. if a = 0, you suddenly have degree one less.
21:30:11 <hppavilion> oerjan: You fill in 0 coefficients, but only up to the degree of the polynomial
21:30:25 <oerjan> yes, and that makes it nonlinear.
21:31:18 <oerjan> it means that if you rotate x^n and x^n + 1, then the difference is not the rotation of 1.
21:31:32 <oerjan> which is sort of an ugly property.
21:32:10 <oerjan> oh even worse, the rotation is not invertible
21:32:28 <oerjan> x^n -> 1, no matter what n is
21:33:21 <oerjan> (well either that or revrot, not sure which one is which direction)
21:34:06 <oerjan> to sum up, i think you need to include n in the notation for it to be sane.
21:34:41 <oerjan> time to put on pizza...
21:36:04 <oerjan> hppavilion: also OKAY in full caps means i'm being incredulous hth
21:39:12 <oerjan> if you include n in the notation, then you can also apply it to polynomials of even larger degree, it will just ignore those coefficients.
21:39:52 <oerjan> complex fuzziness: no idea how useful it is, but i could say almost the same thing about ordinary fuzzy sets.
21:40:18 <oerjan> (i hear it's used in AI?)
21:43:12 -!- hppavilion has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
21:43:32 <oerjan> hppavilion: btw if you restrict it to polynomials of lower degree, then it's basically multiplying by x followed by modulo by x^(n+1) - 1.
21:43:57 <oerjan> or multiplying by x^n, for the reverse
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22:01:27 * oerjan smiles at google's new year's eve doodle
22:02:05 <oerjan> i wonder if it distinguishes time zone
22:06:20 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:07:28 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Thu Dec 31 23:07:25 2015
22:08:02 <oerjan> i assume it would use that i'm on google.no then
22:09:11 -!- hppavilion has joined.
22:09:49 <HackEgo> 2015-12-31 22:09:46.564324000+00:00
22:09:52 <b_jonas> less than an hour localtime here
22:10:01 <HackEgo> 2015-12-31 23:09:58.476564000+01:00
22:20:17 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:23:34 <b_jonas> no, it's the year that's running out.
22:25:00 <shachaf> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGvlw7qBoJQ#t=2m
22:25:00 <oerjan> also, this meat lover's pizza feels extravagant
22:25:05 <shachaf> confirmation that time is running out hth
22:26:09 -!- augur has joined.
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22:33:51 <zzo38> Why hasn't the SQLite bug I reported has been fixed or even acknowledged yet?
22:34:36 <b_jonas> zzo38: I dunno. the one I reported is fixed, and the fix will be in the release some time in January.
22:35:47 <zzo38> Maybe you can write to them though, I don't know
22:42:02 -!- variable has joined.
22:54:45 <zzo38> Does it work better if you write to them do you even know how to do such thing better? But first see if you understand what my bug report is at least.
22:55:37 <b_jonas> why would it help if I write? I didn't get it right at first, I had to write a second letter.
22:55:49 <b_jonas> and then a third when drhipp committed a wrong fix
22:55:57 <b_jonas> (a partial fix, let's say)
22:56:08 <zzo38> Then tell someone else who does know how to get it right
22:56:11 <b_jonas> (though he would have figured it out when running the tests anyway, but later)
22:58:06 <zzo38> I received no reply
22:58:18 <b_jonas> @8-ball will they listen to zzo38 next time?
22:58:22 <b_jonas> `8-ball will they listen to zzo38 next time?
22:58:42 <b_jonas> midnight's close, pour the champagne
22:59:05 <fizzie> One more hour to go here.
23:02:01 <b_jonas> yeah I know, everyone here's in the UK or Finland so they don't celebrate now
23:03:14 <oerjan> seems you have to reload the google doodle manually
23:05:17 <oerjan> b_jonas: wait, i just thought you were in paris
23:06:42 <b_jonas> oerjan: most of continental Europe is in the +1 timezone. Europe/Paris is the name I use for that timezone (+1 with the European daylight saving rules) because Paris is like the biggest city in the zone.
23:07:39 <b_jonas> hppavilion: what? 10 hours?
23:07:47 <b_jonas> is it in Alaska or something?
23:08:37 <shachaf> But the HP Pavilion is in San Jose.
23:09:06 <b_jonas> right, Alaska and 10 hours matches
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23:42:35 <boily> IEUAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
23:43:58 <boily> how's the future? 2016? has the world ended in nucular conflagrations or other apocalyptic robotic seismic ubpringings?
23:46:42 <oerjan> well, not robotic. they involve kittens hth
23:47:11 <boily> oh, so about five hours remaining until kittensplosion.
23:47:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:48:01 <oerjan> also i'm not sure about seismic. it's hard to measure with all the kittens in the way.
23:48:53 <boily> sample kittens, measure amplitude, scale up.
23:49:41 <boily> . o O ( huh. somebody built a huge maya pyramid somewhere very random on our server. who, why, when, and are they mapolable for their architecturactions. )
23:51:05 <hppavilion> boily: Everyone is mapolable. Not being mapolable is punishable by mapoling, LTIC
23:51:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46056 * 18.104.22.168 * (+173) We need another []!
23:51:28 <oerjan> well, sometimes you may need to soak your mapole in holy water first.
23:52:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:2015]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46057 * Hppavilion1 * (+115) No.
23:53:12 <hppavilion> My comment on the page was almost as long as the page itself.
23:53:13 <oerjan> this is what happens when you don't make an article in time hth
23:53:39 <b_jonas> quick, someone invent a 2015 language
23:53:41 <hppavilion> oerjan: Perhaps we should salvage the page and make one that references all the stuff that happened in 2015
23:54:19 <oerjan> hppavilion: btw `2015 exists, and has done so for almost a year hth
23:54:25 <HackEgo> #!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) != "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
23:54:36 <oerjan> b_jonas: try again in 6 minutes hth
23:54:50 <hppavilion> You know, a sort of historical language. It would talk about the Refugee crisis in the form of programming, et cetera.
23:55:07 <b_jonas> (newlines instead of semicolons. crazy.)
23:55:25 <oerjan> hppavilion: we already invented 2015, a year ago. hth.
23:57:18 <hppavilion> I love how "it  has probably faded into uselessness"
23:57:31 <hppavilion> Because, you know, it was always particularly useful
23:58:12 <HackEgo> cat: bin/1492: No such file or directory
23:58:12 <boily> everything is terrible.
23:58:15 <hppavilion> `` echo "#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) != "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo \"Hello, world!\" \ fi" > bin/1492
23:58:24 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/1492: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/1492: cannot execute: Permission denied
23:59:57 <oerjan> those are not actual \s