←2016-01-03 2016-01-04 2016-01-05→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:01:07 <haavard> I am actually norwegian except for that swedish slice, oerjan
00:01:19 <oerjan> NOOOOO
00:01:40 <Taneb> oerjan: my brother woke up in Norway this morning
00:01:41 <haavard> Do you also study at NTNU? (spying on your host)
00:02:10 <oerjan> haavard: not any more, just kept the club membership
00:02:15 <Taneb> (he went to sleep there last night, too)
00:02:24 <Taneb> Although a lot further south than you guys, I believe
00:03:25 <haavard> oerjan: I see
00:03:50 <haavard> Taneb: there's only around 3-4 hours of driving between here and the south end of Norway tbh
00:03:53 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
00:03:55 <hppavilion[1]> Hellu
00:04:05 <hppavilion[1]> @messages-
00:04:05 <lambdabot> oerjan said 52m 35s ago: <hppavilion[1]> <WassPord> I'm a big fan of 50 Cent. Or, as he's called in Zimbabwe, Four hundred million dollars. <-- you know a joke is old when it refers to a no longer existing currency hth
00:04:06 <oerjan> Taneb: this means i will now have to avoid haavard like you have avoided elliott.
00:04:12 <Taneb> haavard: my brother's been staying with friends in Stavanger
00:04:43 <haavard> There you go, that's my home town ;)
00:04:52 <haavard> I didn't know being norwegian was some special perk over here, oerjan
00:05:07 <hppavilion[1]> Hello, haavard!
00:05:17 <haavard> Hi
00:05:26 <hppavilion[1]> I would think you were new because I don't recognize you, but oerjan appears to have seen you around before
00:05:29 <hppavilion[1]> Hm..
00:05:33 <Taneb> haavard: oh wow
00:05:35 <hppavilion[1]> haavallo?
00:05:41 <haavard> I am pretty new, hppavilion[1] ;)
00:05:44 <haavard> At least to the channel
00:05:48 <hppavilion[1]> Welcome then!
00:05:53 <haavard> Thanks :)
00:06:06 <hppavilion[1]> haavard: So what projects are you currently working on?
00:06:12 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm automating Nomic)
00:06:26 <haavard> I'm writing a JIT compiler for ><>
00:07:42 <hppavilion[1]> Whoa
00:07:46 <int-e> `` echo wisdom/super*
00:07:48 <HackEgo> wisdom/superexponential growth wisdom/supermarionation wisdom/supermarioperator
00:07:53 <hppavilion[1]> I have never been able to write a compiler so far
00:08:27 <Phantom_Hoover> oh my god what are these people doing
00:08:30 <haavard> It's a lot easier than I initially thought
00:08:34 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn superduperexponential growth/is exponential growth on top of exponential growth
00:08:38 <HackEgo> Learned «superduperexponential growth»
00:08:43 <hppavilion[1]> `? superduper
00:08:44 <HackEgo> superduper? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:08:45 <haavard> I'm using DynASM, which makes it a lot nicer
00:08:45 <Phantom_Hoover> they've drawn a 3-punctured sphere with big circles for the punctures
00:08:48 <hppavilion[1]> `? superduperexponentialgrowth
00:08:49 <HackEgo> superduperexponentialgrowth? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:08:50 <Phantom_Hoover> jfc
00:09:00 * oerjan swats hppavilion[1] -----###
00:09:03 <hppavilion[1]> `? superduperexponential growth
00:09:04 <HackEgo> is exponential growth on top of exponential growth
00:09:19 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn superduperexponential growth/superduperexponential growth is exponential growth on top of exponential growth
00:09:22 <HackEgo> Learned «superduperexponential growth»
00:09:25 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I deserved that
00:09:54 <int-e> apparently smlist is for http://www.supermegacomics.com/
00:10:44 <oerjan> a learning experience
00:11:09 <hppavilion[1]> haavard: Have you ever heard of Nomic?
00:11:19 <haavard> I just googled it
00:11:26 <hppavilion[1]> Ah xD
00:11:37 <haavard> Is it the game where the rules change, like wikipedia states?
00:11:43 <hppavilion[1]> I'm making a LISP-based Nomic rule handler callsed λ-Nomic
00:11:46 <hppavilion[1]> haavard: Yes
00:11:49 <int-e> `? slist
00:11:50 <HackEgo> Update notification for the webcomic Homestuck.
00:12:11 <oerjan> `le/rn supercalifragilisticexponential growth/Supercalifragilisticexponential growth leaves Graham's number in the dust.
00:12:14 <HackEgo> Learned «supercalifragilisticexponential growth»
00:12:31 <hppavilion[1]> My goal is to make a pretty website frontend and publish it on the internet
00:12:40 <hppavilion[1]> And to generally make Nomic accessible to more people
00:12:46 <hppavilion[1]> By handling it online
00:12:56 <hppavilion[1]> Sort of the chess.com of nomics
00:13:00 <haavard> Sounds pretty cool
00:13:14 <hppavilion[1]> It will be, I hope :)
00:13:22 <int-e> `le/rn smlist/Non-update notification for the webcomic Super Mega.
00:13:25 <HackEgo> Learned «smlist»
00:13:54 <Taneb> Peter Naur has died :(
00:13:59 <haavard> Why is learn spelled le/rn?
00:14:04 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: I have no clue who that is
00:14:10 <hppavilion[1]> haavard: We also have `learn
00:14:17 <Taneb> hppavilion[1]: he's the N in BNF
00:14:22 <hppavilion[1]> Oh :(
00:14:26 <int-e> 87, oh well.
00:14:41 <hppavilion[1]> haavard: But le/rn separates the knowledge from the... thing by / instead of space
00:14:57 <Taneb> `learn infers the head word from the text
00:15:01 <int-e> haavard: there's `learn that takes the first nontrivial word as the keyword
00:15:02 <hppavilion[1]> (the "thing" being the thing that you search for with `?)
00:15:06 <Taneb> `le/rn lets you manually specify the head word
00:15:22 <hppavilion[1]> Though it can't contain /
00:15:36 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe we should update le/rn to allow backslash-escaped /s
00:15:51 <int-e> `? le/rn
00:15:53 <HackEgo> le/rn makes creating wisdom entries manually a thing of the past.
00:15:54 <hppavilion[1]> Because UNIVERSALITY
00:15:56 <haavard> I see..
00:16:21 <Phantom_Hoover> here did anything come of that band gap uncomputability result or not
00:16:33 <hppavilion[1]> haavard: If you use "`learn the walrus is john lennon" it will learn "walrus"
00:16:35 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: shachaf's suggestion is to make le//rn allow single slashes in the key
00:16:51 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: but what if you want a double backslash?
00:16:55 <oerjan> double slashes are impossible in a linux file system anyway
00:16:57 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought it was p. interesting in that it seemed to possibly entail solving the halting problem in finite time, but i didn't know the physics well enough to tell
00:17:05 <int-e> but le//rn is indistinguishable from le/rn to unix?
00:17:11 <shachaf> int-e: But it can look at argv[0]
00:18:01 <oerjan> `? ../cat
00:18:02 <HackEgo> Meow~~ >^.^<
00:18:03 <Phantom_Hoover> <Taneb> Peter Naur has died :(
00:18:20 <Phantom_Hoover> how will we distinguish BNF from brainfuck now??
00:18:28 <int-e> `? bnf
00:18:31 <HackEgo> bnf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:18:37 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Convergent evolution will make it unnecessary
00:18:47 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover: Backus died in 2007
00:18:52 <Taneb> So we just have F now
00:18:52 <hppavilion[1]> Within a few thousand years
00:19:19 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: But no one uses "form" in programming anymore!
00:19:31 <hppavilion[1]> So really, we either have or E
00:19:32 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: the web is full of forms
00:19:32 <Taneb> hppavilion[1]: not even with Visual Basic?
00:19:38 <Phantom_Hoover> at least we have EF if we needed it extended
00:19:39 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/.\(.*\)/S\1./' wisdom/superd*
00:19:42 <HackEgo> No output.
00:19:56 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Ah, but everything in programming will be extensible pretty soon
00:20:09 <hppavilion[1]> So it'll just be soon enough
00:20:14 <int-e> extensible bugs
00:20:26 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Yes!
00:20:40 <hppavilion[1]> We should make EBNF: Esoteric Backus-Naur Form
00:20:58 <hppavilion[1]> (Acronym collision intentional)
00:21:02 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: actually it will learn "walru" hth
00:21:14 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Really? Woooooooooooow
00:21:19 <vanila> BNF is designed for clarity
00:21:23 <vanila> how will you make EBNF?
00:21:42 <hppavilion[1]> A form that sheds the usual ideas of "logical parsing" and "ease-of-use" to make something fun and exciting!
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00:22:02 <vanila> wait it lready exists, perl regex
00:22:10 <hppavilion[1]> Oh. Right.
00:22:46 <hppavilion[1]> Another idea I'm currently working on is Classical Programming
00:22:48 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: that band gap result says little about "real" physics, it's an idealized system in the infinite growth limit.
00:22:49 <hppavilion[1]> Programming based on classes
00:22:57 <hppavilion[1]> Not based on OO, because there aren't many objects
00:23:02 <hppavilion[1]> Just the classes
00:23:22 <hppavilion[1]> And classes aren't just a fancy way to hold methods and data. They're the bulk of the language
00:23:37 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, i expected as much, but it's still fairly interesting if you could get the result in bounded time
00:23:49 <hppavilion[1]> Problem is, I don't know what to put in classes to make them more... well... usable for my idea
00:24:30 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh! I know how to accomplish it!
00:24:39 <hppavilion[1]> Just start making shit up and work back from there!
00:27:58 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/mins*
00:28:00 <HackEgo> wisdom/minski
00:28:34 <oerjan> `? minski
00:28:35 <HackEgo> to minski on : /mɪnskiː/ To act as a minski machine on; of a program or programming language, to encode its entire state into the object as a single integer.
00:29:03 <oerjan> `` mv wisdom/minsk{i,y}; sed -i 's/minski/Minsky/g' wisdom/mins*
00:29:06 <HackEgo> No output.
00:29:11 <oerjan> `? minsky
00:29:12 <HackEgo> to Minsky on : /mɪnskiː/ To act as a Minsky machine on; of a program or programming language, to encode its entire state into the object as a single integer.
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00:29:55 <int-e> . o O ( Minsky is the capital of minsky. )
00:30:19 <oerjan> int-e: don't you mean belorussiay hth
00:30:22 <int-e> (Minsk is the capital of Belarus)
00:30:36 <int-e> oerjan: no, I was punning
00:30:58 <int-e> oerjan: I'm not sure that "to Minsky" should have a capital M.
00:31:42 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: someone was mentioning in the discussion on scott aaronson's blog that one "practical" version of this is that you can have systems that look gapless up to an arbitrary size, then suddenly switch to gapped, or was it the other way around.
00:32:30 <Phantom_Hoover> ah
00:32:31 <oerjan> int-e: i think we should leave that decision to the native speakers.
00:32:35 <Phantom_Hoover> quite unremarkable then
00:32:52 <int-e> oerjan: but I do speak natively ;)
00:33:13 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: well, you can presumably embed an arbitrary finite computation into that switch
00:34:31 <oerjan> int-e: Wenn du es so sagst.
00:35:12 <oerjan> or are you saying you're actually (>=)bilingual
00:35:36 <int-e> no, I'm not saying that
00:35:44 <oerjan> Gut, gut
00:36:36 <oerjan> . o O ( What is O KAY in German )
00:36:52 <int-e> Okay? In Ordnung...
00:37:20 <oerjan> I NORD NUNG
00:37:52 <int-e> Nice to meet you, Mr. Nung.
00:39:58 <oerjan> char ming
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00:54:18 <tadaaa> this channel is funny. i will be here more ofthen
00:55:40 <shachaf> `welcome tadaaa
00:55:42 <HackEgo> tadaaa: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:01:31 <FireFly> hachaf
01:01:38 <shachaf> HireFly
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01:26:45 <tswett> `run culprits canary | loudly
01:27:35 <FireFly> rather silent if you ask me
01:27:47 <tswett> I agree.
01:27:51 <\oren\> why is everyone watching downtown abbey
01:27:57 <tswett> Maybe HackEgo has been spending the last minute or two inhaling.
01:28:06 <HackEgo> No output.
01:28:26 <\oren\> i don't see what's so great about an abbot in the inner city
01:29:09 <tswett> `loudly BEST COMMAND EVER Y/N?
01:29:11 <HackEgo> BEST COMMAND EVER Y/N?
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01:29:25 <tswett> `run welcome | loudly
01:29:29 <HackEgo> Welcome to the international hub for esoteric pro,
01:29:40 <shachaf> no hth
01:29:49 <tswett> `? loudly
01:29:51 <HackEgo> It's pretty annoying.
01:30:01 <myname> indeed
01:30:26 <Elronnd> `loudly people should stop abusing me
01:30:27 <\oren\> `rainbow best camand evar
01:30:27 <HackEgo> people should stop abusing me
01:30:30 <tswett> `run echo "Did you mean: $(loudly loudly)" > wisdom/loudly
01:30:54 <\oren\> wat
01:31:09 <Elronnd> `? loudly
01:31:30 <HackEgo> No output.
01:31:32 <HackEgo> No output.
01:31:32 <tswett> Everyone, HackEgo is tired now and needs to rest.
01:31:32 <Elronnd> `loudly are you dead
01:31:33 <HackEgo> Did you mean: loudly
01:31:34 <HackEgo> are you dead
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01:31:50 <tswett> `? misspellings of croissant
01:31:52 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:31:56 <tswett> `? misspellings of crosant
01:31:58 <Elronnd> `loudly seriously, stop abusing me or I'll call the police for sexual harrasment
01:31:58 <HackEgo> misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:31:59 <HackEgo> seriously, stop abusing me or I'll call the polic,
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01:34:30 <tswett> `loudly Night, everyone.
01:34:31 <HackEgo> Night, everyone.
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01:35:08 <oerjan> `silently STOP SHOUTING
01:35:09 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: silently: not found
01:35:15 <oerjan> wat
01:35:17 <oerjan> oh
01:35:23 <oerjan> `quietly STOP SHOUTING
01:35:25 <HackEgo> ​ 
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01:43:40 <FireFly> very quiet
01:43:43 <FireFly> `cat bin/quietly
01:43:44 <HackEgo> echo " "
01:44:08 <shachaf> `` mv bin/{quietly,silently} # hth
01:44:11 <HackEgo> No output.
02:00:54 <Elronnd> `silently foo
02:00:57 <HackEgo> ​ 
02:15:58 <oerjan> > ord '\SUB'
02:16:00 <lambdabot> 26
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02:24:48 <oerjan> <agawa> if u are abov 1m 60 u arent a troll <-- wat
02:25:44 * oerjan grew up in a culture where trolls are assumed huge, with fairy tales telling how some mountains used to be them
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02:26:50 <lifthrasiir> well, a creature which is 1 million and 60 cm tall is probably not a troll
02:27:39 <oerjan> hm that's 10000.6 m
02:27:54 <oerjan> a bit large for a mountain.
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02:29:11 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
02:29:12 <lambdabot> KOAK 040153Z 09008KT 10SM BKN065 OVC160 11/02 A2981 RMK AO2 SLP094 T01110022
02:29:20 <shachaf> this is a much more reasonable temperature tdh
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02:30:56 <oerjan> ♫ Det bur ei troll i Senja ♫ så reint utruleg stort ♫ Det fiskar kval på Malangsgrunn ♫ som andre fiskar mort ♫
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02:40:34 <oerjan> (There lives a troll in Senja / So incredibly large / It fishes for whales at Malangsgrunn / like others fish for pollock)
02:41:08 <oerjan> that's supposedly _small_ pollock, i couldn't find a specific english word.
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02:42:59 <lifthrasiir> http://babelstone.blogspot.com/2016/01/whats-new-in-unicode-90.html
02:43:42 <lifthrasiir> lol on the "Emoji" and "non-Emoji" headings
02:43:54 <lifthrasiir> "Not Emoji"*
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03:13:09 <hppavilion[1]> Precircumfix Operation
03:13:15 <hppavilion[1]> [5]6
03:13:18 <hppavilion[1]> What does it do?
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03:25:21 <zzo38> I don't know.
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03:52:10 <boily> home!
03:52:14 <boily> @metar CYUL
03:52:15 <lambdabot> CYUL 040300Z 36011G16KT 4SM -SN BKN020 OVC045 M10/M15 A2998 RMK SC6SC2 SLP155
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04:01:21 <hppavilion[1]> So here's a langauge I've brought up before
04:01:49 <hppavilion[1]> A language where an entire program is encoded as an arithmetical expression
04:02:17 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. out<<"Hello, world!"
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04:06:01 <zzo38> I have thought of such things before too (although not quite like that)
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04:19:41 <hppavilion[1]> #esoteric's guide to Star Wars: Think about it and it will make far less sense than you can possibly imagine
04:23:49 <oerjan> i don't know, i can imagine quite a bit.
04:32:08 <Elronnd> Apparently printf is turing-complete
04:33:20 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: How so?
04:33:38 <Elronnd> I forget; I saw something on it on github at somem point
04:33:43 <Elronnd> I'll see if I can dig it up
04:34:57 <Elronnd> Here we go
04:35:10 <Elronnd> "a brainfuck inside printf" https://github.com/HexHive/printbf
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04:37:07 <pikhq> Wait, is that actually working with the formal spec of printf, and not just UB?
04:39:20 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: Wow! And it turns out Python is TC too!
04:40:26 <pikhq> Hmm. It's UB and fragile I think.
04:41:40 <hppavilion[1]> I'm currently making the base ruleset for an automated Nomic game :)
04:42:37 <hppavilion[1]> Specifically, the classic game using the LispRule ruleengine
04:42:42 <Elronnd> hppavilion[1]: wait, really? I never new it was possible for a well-known and used language to actually be turing-complete!
04:42:56 <hppavilion[1]> Elronnd: xD
04:43:15 <deltab> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/functions/fprintf.html defines %n
04:43:28 <deltab> "The argument shall be a pointer to an integer into which is written the number of bytes written to the output so far by this call to one of the fprintf() functions. No argument is converted."
04:43:47 <hppavilion[1]> (λ-nomic, the site/software/game that I'm making for Nomic playing, supports/will support various base games and various rule engines)
04:46:26 <hppavilion[1]> OK, the software now has a registration feature
04:46:40 <hppavilion[1]> Registering into a game, not into the site
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05:33:15 <hppavilion[1]> Phew
05:33:24 <hppavilion[1]> I just implemented the voting mechanism
05:33:35 <hppavilion[1]> It is pure spaghetti
05:33:42 <hppavilion[1]> The italians would be proud
05:35:35 <hppavilion[1]> Here it is:
05:35:36 <hppavilion[1]> http://pastebin.com/cd1KsVJf
05:35:41 <hppavilion[1]> The formatting got a bit messed up
05:37:01 <hppavilion[1]> And now that I think about it, it isn't even complete
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05:51:04 <zzo38> Do you like my variant formats for Magic: the Gathering (such as Variant Star and so on)?
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06:20:51 <zzo38> I hope that I have now sufficiently improved the form to make the calculation of the MD5 hash of your account.
06:42:51 <hppavilion[1]> "My god
06:43:28 <hppavilion[1]> This guy took math and used it to prove the Illuminati (facetiously) xD
06:44:22 <shachaf> zzo38: Where can I read about Variant Star?
06:44:32 <shachaf> Also, md5 is scow
06:44:54 <zzo38> shachaf: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/star.var
06:45:24 <zzo38> I agree there certainly are better ways than MD5, but I have to use MD5 in this case, sorry.
06:47:16 <pikhq> MD5 is totally scow.
06:51:20 <hppavilion[1]> https://youtu.be/DfnBW6HvNwM
06:53:37 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, I know!
06:54:30 <zzo38> But, I have to use MD5 anyways!
06:55:28 <zzo38> HTTP digest authentication requires it
06:56:03 <pikhq> Oh!
06:57:43 <pikhq> Welp, there's only one real problem here: using that prevents using good password storage.
06:57:44 <zzo38> But you can also use "htdigest" program or any other software on your computer to make MD5 calculation, you are not required to use the HTML form that I have made up.
06:58:13 <shachaf> Why are you using HTTP digest authentication?
06:58:53 <zzo38> That is to identify if you have account to post comment on my custom Magic: the Gathering cards.
06:59:47 <zzo38> The file that stores the passwords is private anyways so you cannot access it. The file that stores the cards and comments is a public file though, and account information is not stored there.
06:59:47 <pikhq> HTTPS is probably a better solution, though digest authentication beats basic authentication if you're *not* using HTTPS at least? I guess?
07:00:32 <zzo38> Even if it is HTTPS, the password is still send to my computer; HTTPS only prevent it being catch in between, not at the end!
07:00:52 <zzo38> And even then I should use HTTP authentication, whether basic or digest, to do log in.
07:01:43 <zzo38> Anyways, even "curl" program support digest authentication, so you do not need to do by web browser (although it is the possibility too).
07:07:36 <pikhq> I do like HTTP authentication as at least an option.
07:12:39 <shachaf> zzo38: Instead of "he" your description of Variant Star should say "he or she"
07:15:10 <zzo38> I could fix it, I just shorten it like that; many document to shorten like that commonly
07:15:38 <shachaf> Not the official rules, though.
07:16:03 <zzo38> These are not official rules; it is a variant game.
07:18:14 <zzo38> I do not mean that woman cannot use it; even if somehow someone is neither "he" nor "she" is still usable and is not prohibited either.
07:19:05 <zzo38> English is a Stupid language. Did you know that?
07:19:33 <shachaf> I did know that.
07:20:22 <zzo38> OK
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07:39:49 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: No, zzo38 should say "they"
07:40:09 <shachaf> Magic: The Gathering cards should probably say that.
07:40:10 <hppavilion[1]> Or, alternatively, use every possible name joined with ", or"
07:41:53 <zzo38> Avoiding such things like that is why I abbreviate just as "he", which is shorter and sufficiently clear as far as I can tell
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07:43:34 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: You could, of course, use "one", but then you sound like me
07:45:05 <zzo38> Well, I wrote it and see no reason to change it. However if you would want to write things using different convention I do not complain, unless it is a stupid convention (such as listing all possible names explicitly)
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08:33:34 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo: I've defined a number #, based off of @, s.t. |#| = i
08:33:45 <hppavilion[1]> What I'm wondering is if |@#| = -i
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08:45:59 <zzo38> If | means absolute value, then, I would thought absolute value is supposed to be idenpotence
08:48:22 <shachaf> it normally is hth
08:49:08 <shachaf> sometimes i wonder whether oerjan will be appropriately offended at scow puns if he's not around for them
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08:50:25 <myname> hppavilion[1]: i discussed the existence of @ recently
08:51:07 <hppavilion[1]> myname: And?
08:51:19 <myname> you'd need to extend the reals by some dimension. quadratic polynoms would have 4 results
08:51:32 <myname> we didn't really end in a full definition
08:51:37 <myname> that'd be fun
08:52:05 <zzo38> I have invented "meta-complex numbers" in the past
08:52:14 <zzo38> Possibly some other people have also invented same thing
08:52:31 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Metacomplex as in?
08:52:56 <myname> what are meracomplex numbers?
08:54:29 <zzo38> For example you can have a realreal component, a realimaginary component, a imaginaryreal component, a imaginaryimaginaryimaginary component, a imaginaryimaginaryrealimaginary component, etc
08:54:58 <zzo38> They are still commutative and associative.
08:56:08 <zzo38> You can represent by matrix by use of tensor multiplication of [1,0;0,1] and [0,-1;1,0] and then they can be multiplied by real numbers and added together.
08:56:27 <zzo38> Now do you understand it please?
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10:41:09 <hppavilion[1]> e**(ix) = cos(x) + sin(x)i
10:41:22 <hppavilion[1]> But what about if you substitute j for i? Or k?
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11:52:57 <boily> @metar CYUL
11:52:57 <lambdabot> CYUL 041100Z 33003KT 15SM SKC M18/M24 A3019 RMK SLP229
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12:44:26 <b_jonas> `? snow
12:44:28 <b_jonas> `wisdom
12:44:42 <HackEgo> snow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
12:44:42 <HackEgo> did/did: didn't
12:45:44 <b_jonas> `learn Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, which turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
12:45:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'snow': Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, which turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
12:58:13 <int-e> @metar lowi
12:58:14 <lambdabot> LOWI 041250Z 27008KT 9999 FEW008 SCT030 BKN060 04/02 Q0994 R08/19//95 NOSIG
13:04:11 <zzo38> How do I fix Firefox so that it will use the filename of the page being viewed as the default filename when saving it, rather than using the title as the default filename?
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13:54:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tedius]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46070&oldid=33269 * LegionMammal978 * (+2) /* Cat program */
13:58:51 <\oren\> @metar cyyz
13:58:52 <lambdabot> CYYZ 041300Z 36013KT 15SM FEW030 BKN075 M15/M20 A3031 RMK SC2AC3 SLP277
13:58:57 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAA
14:01:39 <Sgeo> `olist 1017
14:01:41 <HackEgo> olist 1017: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
14:01:48 <Sgeo> oh oops
14:02:31 <b_jonas> ooh!
14:02:33 <b_jonas> looking
14:04:36 <b_jonas> `learn Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targeryan. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
14:04:39 <HackEgo> Learned 'snow': Snow is Jesus's dandruffs, and some suspect that he is the son of Rhaegar Targeryan. It turns the sidewalks to white as if someone broke a lot of styrofoam on it.
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14:21:54 <int-e> boo, spoilers
14:22:36 <int-e> `? spoilers
14:22:37 <HackEgo> spoilers? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:24:19 <int-e> https://xkcd.com/109/
14:27:13 <b_jonas> `? winter
14:27:14 <HackEgo> winter? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:27:21 <b_jonas> `le/rn Winter is coming.
14:27:22 <HackEgo> No output.
14:27:25 <b_jonas> `? winter
14:27:26 <HackEgo> winter? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:27:28 <b_jonas> `learn Winter is coming.
14:27:32 <HackEgo> Learned 'winter': Winter is coming.
14:27:33 <b_jonas> `? winter
14:27:34 <HackEgo> Winter is coming.
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15:34:30 <Taneb> My exam this afternoon went well
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16:59:34 <int-e> aaah stupid 2048 game...
17:07:42 <quintopia> try Threes. it's much less stupid.
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17:13:00 <quintopia> it amuses me that there is a section of the Tedius page that is about making the language less tedious
17:18:34 <int-e> quintopia: I just have to fight the urge to try and reach 8192 (because it takes a long, long time to get there)
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17:38:14 <quintopia> int-e: that number seems astronomical compared to the numbers you're able to reach in Threes
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18:14:38 <ais523> hi, I'm trying to do something totally insane and could use some advice
18:15:08 <ais523> basically, the idea is to make the common case of an esolang interpreter faster via not doing any sort of bounds checks, and instead catching the resulting segfault (via allocating memory a page at a time)
18:15:18 <ais523> this requires that I know where in the source code the segfault happened
18:15:32 <ais523> so what I want to do is convert the segfaults into (zero-cost) exceptions that I can catch
18:15:52 <ais523> however, the obvious method, of putting throw in a signal handler, doesn't work; it acts like the exception was unhandled
18:16:10 <izabera> what do you mean?
18:16:10 <ais523> and inspecting the asm at various optimization levels implies that you're not supposed to be able to throw an exception out of a signal handler into the main program
18:16:40 <ais523> izabera: I mean that if I write "throw foo;" in a signal handler, inside a try block in the main program but not in the signal hander, it gets translated to terminate()
18:16:47 <ais523> as usual for an unhandled exception
18:17:24 <ais523> anyway, what I'd like is either a) a way to convert signals to exceptions, or b) another way to accomplish what I'm aiming for (zero-cost segfault handling) that doesn't require throwing an exception in a signal handler
18:17:42 <ais523> clearly I could do it via writing the asm myself but I don't want to have to resort to that
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18:19:02 <izabera> can you show your code?
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18:19:27 <APic> Maybe People in ##ASM can help, even though it is off-topic there…
18:19:36 <ais523> izabera: not trivially as it's one of those compilers that works by pieceing code fragments together
18:19:43 <APic> Can You use longjmp()?
18:19:43 <ais523> let me paste you some compiled output
18:19:55 <ais523> APic: yes but I can't use setjmp()
18:20:10 <ais523> because you have to call it in advance before you know whether it's jumped to or not
18:20:39 <APic> Oh
18:20:46 <ais523> izabera: http://sprunge.us/jEPB
18:20:59 <ais523> see segv_handler for the problematic bit
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18:23:27 <ais523> the context is that I'm trying to make a basic literal (i.e. non-optimizing) PMMN compiler that's as efficient as possible for being non-optimizing
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18:24:48 <izabera> i don't know what pmmn is but i see
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18:27:23 <ais523> izabera: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Portable_Minsky_Machine_Notation
18:27:44 <ais523> I want to know how fast a non-optimizing impl can be to compare my optimizer to it
18:31:42 <APic> ais523: There is http://forum.dlang.org/thread/jjn6dj$193c$1@digitalmars.com but of course it is highly non-portable.
18:31:57 * ais523 looks
18:32:07 <ais523> anything along these lines can be expected to be highly nonportable, really
18:32:12 <APic> Yes
18:32:27 <ais523> ooh, it uses ucontext_t
18:32:30 <ais523> beautiful
18:32:41 <APic> B-)
18:35:46 <ais523> however it seems to rely on ebp/rbp being reliable
18:40:08 <APic> If the Function You return to does not return further itself, i guess You can just skip messing with the Base-Pointer…
18:40:48 <ais523> right, actually it works a bit more simply if ebp isn't pushed
18:40:59 <APic> *nod*
18:41:00 <ais523> I think what you have to do here is to write the userspace handler in asm
18:41:49 * APic thinks so too, that is why i pointed out ##asm B-)
18:50:49 <ais523> but I already know asm :-P
18:51:31 <APic> Good B-)
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19:45:10 <olsner> huh, my desk *does* point zimbabwards
19:48:12 <fizzie> ais523: jitfunge used a stack like that.
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19:49:42 <fizzie> ais523: Not the part about throwing exceptions, but the part without bounds checks, with a segfault handler that patched pop-like things to act as if they had just popped the last 0 out of the stack.
19:50:00 <ais523> right
19:50:08 <ais523> it's trying to do the segfault handler cleanly that's bothering me
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19:50:23 <ais523> you can get the address that faulted, but if you return, it'll try to read that address again
19:50:34 <ais523> which isn't so useful if what was wrong was the address itself
19:51:51 <fizzie> I did it only in the version that had handcrafted code generation, because the "patch things up to look like it worked" operation is hard to figure out in the general case of arbitrary code.
19:52:27 <fizzie> With a finite set of generated forms, it could look at the faulting instruction and act appropriately. Didn't port this over to the LLVM-based thing.
19:56:35 <fizzie> /* .. */ else if (code[0] == 0x8b && (code[1] & 0xc7) == 0x06) /* .. */
19:56:40 <ais523> oh, you actually examined the code?
19:56:46 <fizzie> As above.
19:56:56 <ais523> come to think of it, I could just write this whole program in asm
19:57:02 <ais523> it'd probably be easier
19:57:24 <fizzie> The body of that branch is targetreg = 11-((code[1]>>3) & 0x07); and then I do ctx->uc_mcontext.gregs[targetreg] = 0; to "return" a zero.
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20:25:46 <hppavilion[1]> Last delayed reaction of 2015! WHOO!
20:26:02 <izabera> :)
20:26:36 <ais523> hmm, should I just put this esolang online without implementing it and without writing programs in it to test that it works?
20:26:52 <ais523> I wanted at least a working tested cat
20:27:00 <ais523> and want the possibility to change the spec in case I've missed something
20:28:21 <ais523> `unidecode ?
20:29:05 <ais523> that is quite the codepoint number
20:29:07 <ais523> three Fs?
20:29:18 <ais523> for a question mark?
20:30:15 <fizzie> That's what you get for putting the "halfwidth and fullwidth forms" block to ff00..ffef.
20:30:34 <ais523> what a weird place to put it
20:33:46 <fizzie> `` for d in 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7; do unidecode "$(unicode $d$d$d$d)"; done
20:33:55 <fizzie> `` for d in 8 9 a b c d e f; do unidecode "$(unicode $d$d$d$d)"; done
20:34:02 <HackEgo> ​[U+8888 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8888] \ [U+9999 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9999] \ [U+AAAA TAI VIET LETTER LOW VO] \ [U+BBBB HANGUL SYLLABLE MYUC] \ [U+CCCC HANGUL SYLLABLE CEK] \ U+DDDD - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ed b7 9d UTF-16BE: dddd Decimal: &#56797; \ () \ Uppercase: U+DDDD \ Category: Cs (Other, Surrogate) \
20:34:30 <fizzie> Hrm. The output for the non-existing U+DDDD was far too long.
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20:54:33 <quintopia> ais523: what esolang?
20:55:00 <ais523> quintopia: I've discussed two today; the first was PMMN; the second was me running with the "input is appended to the source" idea
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21:11:19 <hppavilion[1]> `unidecode ∖
21:11:21 <HackEgo> ​[U+2216 SET MINUS]
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22:56:13 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> But what about if you substitute j for i? Or k? <-- i am guessing you just substitute them in the right side too. i think the quaternions are a (real) banach algebra, which means e**(ix) works by power series as usual, and then i^2 = -1 is _probably_ all you need for the splitup, and j and k have the same property. for x real, that is. if x is some other quaternion that doesn't commute with i, j or k things ...
22:56:13 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:56:19 <oerjan> ... might get messed up.
22:56:49 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] ... might get messed up.
22:56:49 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:57:17 * oerjan suddenly realizes lambdabot might cut that off more...
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23:02:02 <Taneb> oerjan: hppavilion is, I presume, capable of logreading
23:03:06 <oerjan> but does he know that he's capable
23:03:36 <oerjan> does he know that i know that you know that he is capable
23:04:11 <boily> Tanelle, hellørjan, Tanelle, hellørjan.
23:05:32 <oerjan> bohilybilyho
23:05:56 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:06:48 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i wish to inform you that i know that Taneb knows that you are capable of logreading. just in case lambdabot cuts that off more.
23:07:24 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Huh? Not exactly sure what you're saying
23:07:31 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, there's lambdabot
23:07:40 <shachaf> oerjan: You know that Taneb knows it? Or just that Taneb says he knows it?
23:07:47 <shachaf> Or presumes it.
23:08:09 <oerjan> shachaf: darn you got me there. also how can be offended by a scow pun if i cannot find it even while logreadin tdnh
23:08:16 <oerjan> *+g
23:08:36 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Ah, by j and k I meant j from the split-complexes and k=epsilon from the duals
23:08:45 <hppavilion[1]> Not j and k from the quaternions or their ilk
23:08:59 * oerjan vaguely guesses shachaf thinks "normally" is punny there, but doesn't quite see how.
23:09:05 <shachaf> the joke is norm
23:09:08 <shachaf> it's not very good
23:10:06 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: oh. well i have no idea whether that's too messed up to be a banach algebra, then.
23:10:31 <hppavilion[1]> Now I must walk home
23:10:34 <boily> what would be a good porthello for funpuns?
23:10:48 <oerjan> basically, you want it to be a ring and reals to be a subring commuting with everything, i think.
23:11:09 <boily> hppavellon[1]. is there snow where you are?
23:11:11 <oerjan> shachaf: oh.
23:11:26 * oerjan swats shachaf for scowness -----###
23:11:59 <oerjan> `rot13 hello
23:12:05 <HackEgo> uryyb
23:12:33 <oerjan> boily: funpuryyb hth
23:12:44 <boily> tdh.
23:13:12 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
23:13:13 <lambdabot> ENVA 042220Z 13016KT CAVOK M06/M16 Q1008 RMK WIND 670FT 15024G34KT
23:13:26 <oerjan> bit frosty.
23:13:33 <oerjan> no snow, at the moment.
23:13:58 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:13:58 <lambdabot> CYUL 042300Z 32005KT 15SM FEW040 FEW240 M15/M21 A3044 RMK SC1CI1 SC TR CI TR SLP315
23:14:31 <boily> cold. I bought a 10kg bag of salt for my stairs. much fun bringing it back home by foot.
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23:36:53 <shachaf> boily: whoa whoa whoa, why would you live somewhere that cold?
23:36:58 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
23:36:59 <lambdabot> KOAK 042253Z 17008KT 9SM -RA BKN032 OVC050 14/09 A2972 RMK AO2 RAB28 SLP064 P0000 T01390094
23:39:08 <Taneb> shachaf: that's like half of the Frogs chorus of Aristophanes!
23:39:59 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
23:40:14 <shachaf> Taneb knows the croaking chorus from The Frogs of Aristophanes?
23:40:21 <Taneb> YEs
23:40:26 <Taneb> In the original Greek
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23:41:14 <Taneb> And in translation!
23:41:38 <shachaf> can you whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore?
23:41:48 <Taneb> Alas, I cannot
23:42:01 <Taneb> But I am very well acquainted with matters mathematical!
23:42:29 <shachaf> do you have any cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse?
23:42:48 <Taneb> It's equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides!
23:42:54 <shachaf> that's not cheerful
23:43:00 <shachaf> it's dismal
23:43:09 <Taneb> It's all about attitude, shachaf
23:43:15 <shachaf> you're not even giving an upper bound
23:43:16 <Taneb> Get to higher griound
23:43:19 <shachaf> just an equality
23:43:28 <shachaf> Taneb: you never answered my question about dominance and submission, anyway
23:43:38 <Taneb> I do not remember the question
23:44:25 <shachaf> <shachaf> Taneb: so BDSM is out but how does Taneb feel about dominance and submission in non-sexual contexts twh
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23:44:29 <shachaf> in particular i was thinking of theatre
23:44:42 <Taneb> I haven't done much theatre in the past couple of years
23:44:54 <shachaf> what do you think of http://slbkbs.org/kj-ideas.txt
23:45:24 <Taneb> That is certainly a list of ideas
23:47:09 <shachaf> thanks
23:47:27 <shachaf> what's better than ideas? pooches.
23:48:01 <boily> shachaf: because the beer is good.
23:48:25 <shachaf> how's the poutine
23:48:30 <boily> better.
23:48:42 <boily> speaking of poutine, I think I'ma gonna get one.
23:48:51 <shachaf> GOOD THINGS, TOTALLY ORDERED:
23:48:53 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CRUSTACEAN CHICKEN).
23:48:54 <Taneb> I don't know anywhere to get poutine
23:48:54 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
23:48:57 <shachaf> oops
23:49:38 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:50:14 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
23:50:57 <shachaf> Taneb: you should read that book, it's great
23:52:09 <Taneb> I will bear that in mind
23:52:41 <Taneb> Unfortunately I have exams right now
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23:57:32 <hppavilion[1]> @tell boily There was snow here, until a few days ago. Which is weird, because Alaska.
23:57:32 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:58:08 <Taneb> I haven't seen it snow since 2011
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