←2016-01-04 2016-01-05 2016-01-06→ ↑2016 ↑all
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00:14:02 <ais523> I've seen snow on a couple of random days in late 2015
00:14:13 <ais523> like, october/novemberish
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00:20:39 * ais523 wonders why Stack Exchange's TOS refers to the user accepting the TOS using the pronoun "it"
00:20:49 <ais523> most such legal documents I've seen just repeat the noun rather than using pronouns
00:20:57 <ais523> to avoid such awkward phrasing
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00:33:07 <\oren\> @metar cyyz
00:33:08 <lambdabot> CYYZ 050000Z 01009KT 15SM SKC M13/M22 A3053 RMK SLP355
00:35:49 <\oren\> @metar cytz
00:35:49 <lambdabot> CYTZ 050000Z AUTO 32007KT 300V360 9SM CLR M12/M20 A3056 RMK SLP357
00:36:51 <\oren\> a bit warmer by the laek
00:37:10 <\oren\> s/ek/ke
00:39:51 <\oren\> I need something to sort the unicode characters in a file
00:41:19 <\oren\> I soppose I could just put each character on a line by itself, then run sort, then delete the linebreaks
00:54:56 <\oren\> bah. GNU fold doesn't do utf8 righjt
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00:59:15 <\oren\> HA! since the'yre all kanji, fold -b60 or any other multiple of 3 works
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01:20:32 <\oren\> ok. so: cat kanjilist | tr -d '\n' | fold -b3 | sort -u | tr -d '\n' | fold -b60 >sortedkanjilist
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01:33:55 <quintopia> ais523: what did you mean by appending input?
01:34:26 <ais523> before running the program, the interp reads the entirety of stdin and appends that to the program
01:34:38 <quintopia> in what language?
01:34:40 <ais523> also there's no introspection/redlection
01:34:44 <ais523> *reflection
01:35:06 <ais523> so you have to redefine every character that could appear in the input to handle itslef
01:35:10 <ais523> and a new esolang I'm working on
01:35:20 <ais523> it's called Takeover
01:35:27 <quintopia> oh. i get it.
01:35:44 <quintopia> looks like fun.
01:43:29 <\oren\> by character, do you mean unicode characters or bytes?
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02:09:42 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: it seems that fold cannot handle multibyte characters of UTF-8 or whatsoever anyway
02:09:53 <lifthrasiir> that is, even not locale-dependent
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03:04:32 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a place I can find the original "A Programming Language" by Kenneth E Iverson for free online?
03:04:45 <hppavilion[1]> Preferably legitimately?
03:04:55 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I found a problem with generalized hyperoperations
03:08:32 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, found it
03:09:27 <adu> hi hppavilion[1]
03:09:37 <adu> hppavilion[1]: what problem?
03:09:38 <hppavilion[1]> Hadu
03:10:12 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Well, I assume we want negative hyperoperations to be the inverse of the positives, correct? So x-y, x/y, etc. would be negative hyperoperations
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03:10:26 <adu> no
03:10:29 <hppavilion[1]> That leads to the issue of Pred(x). Where is it? 0 is already S(x)
03:10:30 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
03:10:43 <hppavilion[1]> adu: What would they be then
03:10:44 <hppavilion[1]> ?
03:10:59 <adu> there are hyperN, hyperNroots, hyperNlogarithms, which would you choose for negatives, roots or logs?
03:11:45 <hppavilion[1]> adu: That's another problem I was going to cover xD
03:11:58 <\oren\> Apparently a portable lithium battery can also be used as a lightweight incendiary grenade.
03:12:00 <adu> hyper2roots and hyper2logs are both division
03:12:10 <adu> hyper3roots are surds/radicals
03:12:19 <adu> hyper3logs are the traditional "logarithm"
03:12:39 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Perhaps we're looking at it wrong?
03:12:50 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps it's not so much a number line we're going for as a number... tripod?
03:12:56 <adu> hyper4-x is generally called super-x, i.e. super-roots and super-logarithms
03:13:08 <adu> hppavilion[1]: no tripod
03:13:18 <hppavilion[1]> Three rays going in directions 120 degrees from each other?
03:13:24 <adu> hppavilion[1]: they're indexed by natural numbers, no negatives are required at all
03:13:42 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Logs/roots are?
03:14:03 <adu> hppavilion[1]: why are you forcing three sets indexed by natural numbers into an structure that doesn't even represent them? stop forcing things to be something they're not
03:14:28 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I'm just thinking about uberoperations xD
03:14:59 <adu> hppavilion[1]: for any function f(x, y) there are two inverse functions, f^(-1, 0)(x, y), and f^(0, -1)(x, y)
03:15:36 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I'm simply making an attempt to generalize the hyperoperations
03:15:45 <adu> you can't put those on a number line, because it's 2D
03:15:54 <hppavilion[1]> Whihc is, of course, what you're trying to do too
03:16:06 <adu> there are quadrillions of mappings between 1D and 2D
03:16:12 <adu> which one do you choose?
03:16:12 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Out of curiousity, what's f^(-1, -1)(x, y) equal to?
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03:16:24 <adu> hppavilion[1]: depends on the function
03:16:59 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I choose to forgo the concept of lines for my hyperoperations and instead have positive numbers, fooative numbers, and barative numbers
03:17:12 <hppavilion[1]> Or fooative numbers, barative numbers, and bazative numbers
03:17:16 <adu> fooative? barative?
03:17:40 <hppavilion[1]> It makes no sense, but it's mathematically rigorous AFAICT and at least usable
03:17:48 <adu> I need to post this convo to the TetrationForum
03:17:49 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I'm not very good at naming things
03:17:54 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
03:17:55 <hppavilion[1]> You do
03:17:59 <adu> lol
03:18:36 <hppavilion[1]> adu: But I think tripod numbers would at least be more useful for generalized hyperoperations than linear numbers are
03:19:09 <hppavilion[1]> Tripod numbers are written *x, &x, and $x
03:19:27 <hppavilion[1]> And there's some sort of logical transformation between them. Or maybe not, maybe we don't need it.
03:20:07 <hppavilion[1]> So, perhaps, $&x -> *x, or something like that
03:20:39 <adu> There is a place for alternative extensions from Integers to Complexes, but IMHO, it's not going to be very popular
03:20:58 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Yes, and the Hyperoperations might just be that place
03:21:10 <adu> so far the only extensions that have any sticking-power among mathematicians are "regular" and "intuitive"
03:21:21 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I mean, how else do we encode negative hyperoperations? I don't see any way they could be anything /but/ the inverse operations
03:21:35 <adu> hppavilion[1]: what is a negative hyperoperations?
03:21:48 <adu> they're undefined, what's wrong with that?
03:21:50 <hppavilion[1]> adu: a[n]b where n<0
03:21:58 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Because it's less fun that way?
03:22:32 <hppavilion[1]> $&x -> *x, &$x -> *x; $*x -> &x, *$x -> &x; &*x -> $x, *&x -> $x might work
03:22:35 <adu> hppavilion[1]: well, if I were to define them, I would try and continue with the standard recursion rule
03:22:43 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Yes, of course
03:23:01 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Then again, you can't do recursion like that with the reals
03:23:07 <adu> but that doesn't work so well with the (x -> x +1) function
03:23:38 <adu> because it doesn't break down like the other operations
03:23:40 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm not generalizing to the integers, I'm generalizing to the reals)
03:24:31 <hppavilion[1]> adu: Hm... Perhaps n[0]m = 0, and n[1]m = n moved away from 0 by m, etc.? It's in line with the original hyperoperations, AFIACT, but not with standard arithmetic
03:24:46 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, shit, forgot to do &&, $$, and **
03:25:06 <hppavilion[1]> && -> $, $$ -> *, ** -> & or something
03:25:23 <adu> Any continuous hyperoperation sequence would also have to have a definition of the "etas"
03:25:26 <hppavilion[1]> It's rotating clockwise 120 degrees instead of 180 degrees, if that makes any sense
03:25:37 <hppavilion[1]> adu: The "eta"s?
03:26:06 <hppavilion[1]> (Of course, you could also go anticlockwise, but then again, you could also just rotate the graph. Really, it's a matter of arbitrary choice)
03:26:50 <adu> eta_N = [0, 1, e^(1/e), 1.6353, ...] and their counterparts eulers_N = [0, 1, e, 3.0885, ...]
03:30:09 <hppavilion[1]> adu: I don't think that's how ... works
03:30:31 <hppavilion[1]> I think ... needs to follow a sequence that the reader has already picked up the pattern in
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04:50:49 <\oren\> QC has warped to the yeah 20016!!
04:50:57 <\oren\> s/yeah/year
04:52:38 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: he means the identities for the two reverse operations
04:52:47 <\oren\> or something
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05:18:58 <Elronnd> \oren\: more like the year 216
05:19:00 <Elronnd> but still cool
05:19:22 <Elronnd> Oh, I see
05:19:30 <Elronnd> Downloading and saving in case it gets fixed
05:19:46 <lifthrasiir> year 2e16
05:19:56 <lifthrasiir> whether it's hexadecimal or decimal
05:21:07 <Elronnd> `printf 2; for i in ${0..16}; do printf 0; done
05:21:14 <HackEgo> 2; for i in ${0..16}; do printf 0; done
05:21:18 <Elronnd> ``printf 2; for i in ${0..16}; do printf 0; done
05:21:20 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `printf: not found
05:21:28 <Elronnd> :(
05:22:10 <Elronnd> ``echo $0
05:22:11 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `echo: not found
05:22:18 <Elronnd> wot?
05:22:22 <Elronnd> ``ls bin
05:22:23 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `ls: not found
05:22:38 <Elronnd> Ohhhhhhh
05:22:39 <lifthrasiir> `printf 2%016d 0
05:22:40 <HackEgo> 20000000000000000 0
05:22:45 <lifthrasiir> wat
05:23:00 <Elronnd> `printf 2%016d 0
05:23:01 <HackEgo> 20000000000000000 0
05:23:14 <lifthrasiir> `printf %x 123
05:23:15 <HackEgo> 0 123
05:23:20 <lifthrasiir> heh
05:23:30 <Elronnd> `echo $0
05:23:31 <HackEgo> ​$0
05:23:40 <Elronnd> :c
05:25:07 -!- Elronnd has set topic: This part of the topic was the first added in 2016 | The international hub for magic gathering and deployment. | Effi's finest fluffy waffles | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://esolangs.org/ | This part of the topic was the second added in 2016.
05:27:33 <zzo38> Maybe I can invent the card game a bit like Magic: the Gathering card and Pokemon card and whatever but it is new game, can be call Freecard; I want to avoid the problem made with other designs, by doing in the right way, which means it must be open-source and card game rule play with paper and computer are designed together to ensure it work, and mathematically elegant too.
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06:01:39 <coppro> man, usialtgr is the best keyboard layout
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06:28:59 <zzo38> Are you sure?
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08:41:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Call stack/Manipulation]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46071 * Mroman * (+585) Wouldn't you need to push the current function instead?
08:42:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Call stack/Manipulation]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46072&oldid=46071 * Mroman * (+6) * wiki format
08:44:06 <FreeFull> https://dpaste.de/3tGJ/raw I found this in a Chinese spam message
08:46:54 <FreeFull> The email has something to do with Falun Gong
08:48:27 <FreeFull> It links to some website talking against the chinese communist party
08:49:52 <zzo38> They are neither communist nor a party, from what I have heard.
08:50:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Call stack]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46073&oldid=46063 * Mroman * (+991) buffering calls & x86
08:52:53 <lifthrasiir> it is a spiritual movement afaik
08:57:35 <fizzie> A man was giving out Falun Gong leaflets at the door of the British Museum.
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09:00:59 <mroman> I presume there are garbage collectors that have a list of pointers to objects
09:01:07 <mroman> or a table the form of
09:01:12 <mroman> | POINTER | LIVE
09:01:52 <mroman> then at some point they scan through the stack space and mark all objecs as live and check for references from these live objects to other objects
09:01:59 <mroman> marking every object reachable as live
09:02:13 <mroman> then just delete all non-live objects
09:02:59 <mroman> so basically it would be an array of struct gc_entry { object* obj; bool alive; }
09:03:37 <mroman> and each object knows the index of it's gc entry
09:03:50 <mroman> in case somebody wants to manually free certain objects at a very specific point
09:04:00 <mroman> @massages-load
09:04:01 <lambdabot> boily said 9d 13h 50m 54s ago: I mapole you.
09:04:01 <lambdabot> boily said 9d 13h 50m 25s ago: (with great force and momentum, might I add.)
09:04:01 <lambdabot> boily said 9d 13h 50m 19s ago: (tsé.)
09:04:01 <lambdabot> boily asked 3d 10h 9m 59s ago: mrhelloman. underdeveloped aliens?
09:04:09 <mroman> what
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09:15:01 <mroman> "A good chunk of the web today (and particularly the mobile web) effectively relies on -webkit prefixed CSS properties & features. We wish we lived in a world where web content always included standards-based fallback (or at least multiple-vendor-prefixed fallback), but alas, we do not live in that world. To be successful at rendering the web as it exists, we need to add support for a list of frequently-used -webkit prefixed CSS properties & features."
09:15:07 <mroman> nah
09:15:15 <mroman> google should just severly punish websites that don't use proper HTML/CSS
09:15:16 <FreeFull> fizzie: I'm just wondering what the code from the email is
09:15:49 <mroman> If your site's rank sinks because you don't use proper HTML/CSS than that would be an incentive to change that.
09:16:07 <mroman> and that would be only fair
09:16:17 <mroman> since webpages should generally be viewable in any compliant browser
09:16:37 <myname> best viewed with
09:17:07 <mroman> so it makes sense that a search engine takes the portability of a webpage into account.
09:17:23 <FreeFull> http://freefull.github.io/dice.html Is this proper HTML/CSS/Javascript ?
09:18:08 <zzo38> They are trying to define the webpage rendering too much inside the webpage, even though it should depend on user settings instead.
09:18:35 <mroman> zzo38: totally agree.
09:19:56 <mroman> and it totally pisses me off that pandoc doesn't generate valid HTML
09:21:12 <zzo38> Then fix pandoc
09:22:44 <zzo38> The other thing I would try to do though is to intend that the service can also be used from commandline (with curl, SQLite, or otherwise) as well and don't necessarily require the web browser; clean HTML writing is also help with such thing, although many of my files I make as plain text since many thing I don't even need HTML anyways.
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09:27:45 <fizzie> FreeFull: Sometimes it's just random garbage to confuse things that detect spam by exact comparisons.
09:28:17 <FreeFull> fizzie: Could be
09:32:54 <zzo38> Once I wrote the spam filter that worked by looking for the stuff that was used to avoid spam detection, and other strange stuff (multiple tabs in the subject line, large numbers of spaces in the subject line, non-ASCII subject lines, base64-encoded HTML, etc)
09:33:59 <fizzie> The distribution looks approximately the sort of thing you get if you pick uniformly random characters from the alphabet [A-Za-z0-9 ].
09:34:37 <mroman> looks like html5 output is more valid
09:35:23 <mroman> E-Mails shouldn't contain HTML anyway
09:35:25 <mroman> :)
09:36:04 <zzo38> Yes I agree it should preferably be plaintext
09:36:20 <zzo38> Some people program their computer to reject HTML email
10:15:45 <mroman> there should be more of those
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11:43:04 <boily> `wisdom
11:43:11 <HackEgo> bfjoust/bfjoust is a spamming tool for #esoteric.
11:43:17 <boily> @massages-loud
11:43:17 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 11h 45m 45s ago: There was snow here, until a few days ago. Which is weird, because Alaska.
11:45:47 <int-e> @snow
11:45:47 <lambdabot> ""
11:45:56 <boily> @metar CYUL
11:45:57 <lambdabot> CYUL 051105Z 24005KT 15SM FEW008 M20/M23 A3063 RMK SF1 SLP378 DENSITY ALT MISG
11:46:12 <boily> @metar LOWI
11:46:13 <lambdabot> LOWI 051120Z 26005KT 180V310 9999 FEW012 SCT070 BKN090 03/00 Q0999 R08/19//95 NOSIG
11:46:40 <int-e> `? winter
11:46:41 <HackEgo> Winter is coming.
11:50:05 <FireFly> @metar ESSB
11:50:06 <lambdabot> ESSB 051120Z 04006KT 9999 -SN FEW003 SCT007 M08/M11 Q1009 R12/29//60
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11:50:32 <FireFly> I forget how to read metars
11:50:49 * FireFly isolates the temperature, skips the rest
11:52:28 <int-e> light snow; few clouds at 300 feet; scattered clouds at 700 feet; pressure 1009 hPa; 04006KT is wind (from 040, 6 knots) and 9999 is visibility on the ground
11:54:18 <int-e> 15sm, hmm
11:54:50 <int-e> ah, also visibility, with unit
11:54:55 <FireFly> ah
11:56:54 <fizzie> I'm not sure M20 still counts as "is coming".
11:56:57 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
11:56:57 <lambdabot> EGLL 051150Z AUTO 21009KT 180V260 9999 SCT005 09/07 Q0984 NOSIG
11:57:04 <fizzie> No sign of it here.
11:57:39 <fizzie> There's snow in Finland, or so I hear.
11:57:41 <fizzie> @metar EFHK
11:57:42 <lambdabot> EFHK 051150Z 36007KT 9999 FEW020 BKN065 BKN200 M18/M21 Q1007 NOSIG
11:57:51 <fizzie> Brrr.
11:58:34 <fizzie> That's almost a 30-degree difference in temperatures.
12:00:08 <b_jonas> Is the portal co-op a free co-op, or one where the players are restricted on which buttons they push on the controller?
12:01:04 <FireFly> In Portal 2? Pretty sure both players have full control
12:01:12 <b_jonas> great
12:01:17 <FireFly> On PC it's online multiplayer, so each player plays on a separate computer
12:01:22 <FireFly> with full controls etc
12:01:22 <b_jonas> ah, I see
12:01:41 <b_jonas> so they're controlling two different in-game humanoid characters?
12:01:50 <FireFly> Yep
12:02:00 <b_jonas> nice, I didn't know portal 2 could do that
12:02:20 <FireFly> Well "humanoid"--they're robots specifically designed for the co-op
12:02:37 <FireFly> rather than two clones of Chell
12:03:33 <b_jonas> This will be interesting, I think I haven't seen this in previous GDQs, although Portal 2 is fast-paced 3D first-person with people jumping around in portals like crazy so I can't usually follow what happens on the screen.
12:04:40 <b_jonas> I wonder what the Super Mario Maker will be like.
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12:05:25 <b_jonas> The GTA 3 any% run will be interesting. So many nice bugs exhibited!
12:06:35 <b_jonas> And of course, the 3D Legend of Zelda games are always amazing.
12:11:27 <FireFly> Especially blindfolded
12:12:12 <FireFly> There's blindfolded punch-out this year, hopefully that'll be great too
12:26:53 <fizzie> Like, on a console, or just two blindfolded people in a room trying to punch each other?
12:27:36 <FireFly> On a console :p
12:30:27 <FireFly> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSr3aXd4XuQ#t=5m45s
12:31:58 <b_jonas> heh
12:52:19 <FireFly> Cloudbuilt looks pretty fun
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13:08:27 <fizzie> FireFly: Sounds like a web technology.
13:21:33 <int-e> "it is very fast paced and high difficulty and emphasis on acrobatic control"... sounds a bit too serious to be fun ;)
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15:21:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Beeswax]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46074&oldid=45976 * Albedo * (+249) major overhaul of the layout
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15:21:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Beeswax]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46075&oldid=46074 * Albedo * (+0) /* Table with all cloning and deletion directions */ typo
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15:53:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tonoco]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46076&oldid=40979 * * (-6) /* Box Reference */
15:54:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tonoco]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46077&oldid=46076 * * (-6) /* Control Flow */
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17:20:14 <Taneb> I have my "Eodermdrome" exam in 40 minutes
17:20:44 <myname> how so?
17:21:05 <Taneb> myname, that's when the exam was scheduled
17:21:12 <Taneb> It's on computation by graph transformation
17:21:16 <myname> ah
17:23:03 <Taneb> Incidentally, "forty" is the only number spelt in English with its letters in alphabetical order
17:23:29 <Taneb> > sort "forty"
17:23:31 <lambdabot> "forty"
17:23:42 <Taneb> > sort "eight"
17:23:44 <lambdabot> "eghit"
17:23:50 <myname> it isn÷t
17:23:55 <myname> "a" is also
17:24:04 <Taneb> A is an article, not a number
17:24:11 <Taneb> You can't add three to a
17:24:16 <myname> ah, number
17:24:19 <int-e> > reverse . sort $ "one" -- arguably sorted as well
17:24:21 <lambdabot> "one"
17:24:22 <myname> i overread that
17:24:39 <Taneb> int-e, that's maximally unsorted!
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19:03:05 <quintopia> Taneb: this is great for a trivia contests thx
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19:04:55 <hppavilion[1]> If I'm making a language in the spirit of unicode
19:06:07 <hppavilion[1]> Should I make the language based on english syntactically (e.g. variables are [a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z0-9_]*, and Δ an operator), or should I make it so that the entire language allows for a wide variety of languages to be used (Δ would be a variable)?
19:06:24 <hppavilion[1]> I have a feeling the second one is more correct, but the first makes code look cooler xD
19:10:11 <Taneb> quintopia, "four" is the only number in the English language with as many letters as its value
19:11:57 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: What about x=1?
19:12:09 <hppavilion[1]> x where x=1, that is
19:12:23 <hppavilion[1]> I count polynomials as numbers because "close enough"
19:12:32 <hppavilion[1]> (and in this case, monomials)
19:12:37 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], polynomials aren't words in the English language
19:13:10 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: x is a term, and thus could be used alone in a text ("so if we assume that x is equal to 1...")
19:13:13 <hppavilion[1]> Therefor it's a word
19:13:41 <hppavilion[1]> *Therefour
19:13:54 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], I disagree; we use names in text (such as "hppavilion[1]") but I wouldn't put them in a Crossword or play them in Scrabble
19:14:59 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Crossword clue: "This man attempted to take over the world (vertical 12+5i) (vertical is, like, up and down (so towards your face when looking directly down))
19:15:00 <hppavilion[1]> "
19:15:27 <hppavilion[1]> Answer: Napoleon, but good luck writing it in the 3d complex manifold crossword puzzle.
19:15:49 <myname> the definition of a word is actually quite hard
19:16:21 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Like in the case of vertical?
19:16:30 <myname> https://youtu.be/Vu3eDf4p0r0
19:16:43 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Internet is filtered at my location. Can you give me the tl;dr?
19:16:52 <hppavilion[1]> Well, the aif;cw?
19:16:58 <myname> words are weird
19:17:31 <hppavilion[1]> ("America is fascist; couldn't watch")
19:19:23 <hppavilion[1]> myname: What do you think of the idea of Unilang? A unified, unicode-based declarative programming language
19:20:37 <myname> how so? on the "a language like unicode" thing i first thought youkd want to make something with as much useless and clattered stuf as possible
19:20:47 <myname> but then again, there is already c++
19:21:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: xD
19:21:26 <hppavilion[1]> Yes, it is pretty cluttered and will feature some pretty useless things xD
19:22:04 <hppavilion[1]> The idea is a standard sort of programming language. Not a "global overarching standard" like unicode is, of course, but a sort of option language based on various other languages for expressing algorithms and such
19:22:13 <hppavilion[1]> In a way a computer can parse and evaluate
19:22:24 <myname> like, assembly?
19:22:46 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yes, but higher-level. Obviously.
19:22:57 <myname> like, c?
19:23:02 <hppavilion[1]> myname: A language entirely based on arithmetical expressions
19:23:08 <hppavilion[1]> Closer to Haskell than ASM
19:23:20 <hppavilion[1]> But not as beautiful as Haskell
19:23:56 <myname> "i want sometjing like haskell, but less beautiful"
19:24:02 <hppavilion[1]> Because Haskell is the goddamn <insert beautiful celebrity here> of programming languages.
19:24:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Also, weirder
19:24:24 <myname> i do like the idea of curry
19:24:49 <myname> it's like "hey, let's take that language and put more awesomeness in it"
19:27:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: It takes some inspiration from APL
19:27:38 <myname> huh?
19:27:42 <myname> how so
19:28:07 <myname> it looks prologish
19:28:17 <myname> also, i like the non-determinism
19:28:33 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Well. I read a fraction of the Wiki article on APL and took out the ideas I liked
19:28:42 <myname> a?b = a
19:28:42 <hppavilion[1]> And put them into UniLang
19:28:46 <myname> a?b = b
19:28:57 <myname> is tje definition of ? in curry
19:29:02 <hppavilion[1]> a?b = OMGWTF
19:29:10 <hppavilion[1]> myname: What does ? do though?
19:29:23 <myname> it chooses either a or b
19:29:29 <hppavilion[1]> myname: At random?
19:29:49 <myname> yes, but in a way that it still fits all boundaries
19:29:52 <hppavilion[1]> Oooooooooooooh
19:29:54 <hppavilion[1]> Whoooooooooa
19:30:29 <myname> also
19:30:36 <myname> insert x ys = x:ys
19:30:49 <myname> insert x (y:ys) = y: insert x ys
19:30:58 <myname> puts an element anywhere in a list
19:31:27 <hppavilion[1]> mindblown :: Bool
19:31:32 <hppavilion[1]> mindblown = True
19:32:23 <myname> permutation (x:xs) = insert x (permutation xs)
19:34:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Beeswax]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46078&oldid=46075 * Albedo * (+8) /* File related I/O */ text formatting
19:35:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Beeswax]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46079&oldid=46078 * Albedo * (-2) /* File related I/O */ typos
19:35:40 <myname> does anybody have contact to the beeswax author?
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20:51:35 <ais523> `? coalgebra
20:51:54 <HackEgo> coalgebra? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:52:17 <Taneb> A coalgebra is just like in high school maths but with the arrows reversed
20:52:26 <ais523> but high school maths doesn't have arrows
20:52:33 <ais523> except occasionally above vectors
20:52:57 <myname> reversed vector arrows would be funny
20:53:09 <Taneb> ais523, that I am afraid was most of the joke
20:53:10 <shachaf> depends on how high
20:54:03 <ais523> so are coroutines just routines with reversed arrows?
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20:55:27 <myname> goroutines are just routines that walk instread of running
20:56:44 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/robots,/Lambek'\''s lemma, &/' wisdom/tanebvention
20:56:47 <HackEgo> No output.
20:57:22 <shachaf> Taneb is obviously an expert in coalgebras, having invented Lambek's lemma
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21:01:20 <Phantom_Hoover> `? tanebventioin
21:01:22 <HackEgo> tanebventioin? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:01:23 <Phantom_Hoover> `? tanebvention
21:01:24 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, the universe, weetoflakes, persistence, the reals, Lambek's lemma, robots, cigars, progress, and this sentence. He never invents anything involving sex.
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21:02:59 <shachaf> did Taneb invent Lambek's lemma directly or did Taneb invent Lambek who then invented the lemma
21:03:04 <shachaf> are inventions transitive
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21:03:22 <Taneb> shachaf, I do not think inventions are transitive but I do not think they are anti-transitive either
21:03:56 <hppavilion[1]> So here's an idea for an Esosport
21:04:21 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: um, all soprts are eso
21:04:24 <b_jonas> all sports
21:04:28 <hppavilion[1]> Fixed-parser esolang design
21:04:31 <b_jonas> it's the default
21:04:37 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: Yes, but this is a sport based around Eso/langs/
21:04:47 <hppavilion[1]> An individual or group provides a parser to the players
21:04:57 <hppavilion[1]> Each player or group of players takes it and attempts to make a language
21:05:12 <hppavilion[1]> Whoever makes the best language, at the discretion of a group of judges or the host, wins.
21:07:32 <hppavilion[1]> "Best" may mean most eso (pure) or most logical and usable (working with what you have)
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21:12:48 <hppavilion[2]> b_jonas: What do you think of that idea?
21:12:56 <hppavilion[2]> I mayormaynot already have a lexer and parser prepared for it
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21:27:45 <hppavilion[2]> parser-alpha
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21:31:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Parser Alpha]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46080 * Hppavilion1 * (+314) Created Page
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21:49:46 <haavard> What about this: an esolang interpreter/compiler for which you have to figure out the language
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21:50:32 <MDude> So it would be a different language for each instalation, but stay consistant over time?
21:52:13 <ais523> I think haavard just means that you get the interp as a binary blob (or possibly even with source code) and you have to figure out how the language works by experimentation
21:52:24 <ais523> some of my original plans for Snowflake work like that but even worse
21:52:27 <ais523> but I toned it down a lot
21:52:50 <haavard> Maybe even an online form to which you submit your program, so there's no source or disassembly available
21:53:16 <haavard> And yeah, some language you have to figure out, not an existing one
21:54:34 <Taneb> ais523, it could even be a network black box
21:54:48 <ais523> right
21:55:02 <ais523> in which case I hope it gives useful error messages :-)
21:55:13 <ais523> [>+>->[>]><>>>,>.[Hello, world!]]>++
21:55:17 <ais523> there's a hello world in takeover
21:55:37 <MDude> http://esolangs.org/wiki/TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL
21:55:41 <ais523> I decided to use the same 8 chars as BF to confuse people (after I realised I'd naturally chosen a bunch of them anyway)
21:55:45 <haavard> I see a fish in there
21:55:50 <ais523> the language is unrelated
21:56:01 <MDude> It is related.
21:56:06 <ais523> anyone want to guess how the language works based on that?
21:56:12 <ais523> MDude: well only in that it's an esolang
21:56:16 <MDude> No.
21:56:47 <MDude> It is also related in that you could have a website that interprets a language similar to TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL
21:57:09 <Taneb> ais523, I'm guessing that in some circumstances [ and ] work as string delimiters
21:57:09 <MDude> But instead of having the language be based on the time of day, it could be different for each user ID.
21:57:16 <ais523> Taneb: indeed
21:57:25 <ais523> and you're also correct that they don't /always/ work as string delimeters
21:57:28 <MDude> So you would create an account and get a randomly generated language.
21:57:44 <ais523> MDude: oh, we're in separate conversations
21:57:52 <Taneb> ais523, are they sometimes procedure delimiters?
21:57:55 <ais523> I was talking about Takeover, you were apparently talking about the new TMMLPTEALPAITAFNFAL
21:58:01 <MDude> And it wouldn't tell you which variation it is, do you'd have to reverse-engineer it.
21:58:15 <ais523> Taneb: they sometimes aren't delimeters at all; there isn't much of a distinction between string and procedure delimiters
21:58:38 <ais523> this explains why we were disagreeing with each other :-)
22:00:24 <Taneb> Hmm
22:00:34 <Taneb> They do, at least in that excerpt, seem to always be matching
22:00:36 <ais523> (my previous comment was to MDude)
22:00:37 <Taneb> This may be a coincidence
22:00:47 <ais523> Taneb: I did that to make the program easier to write
22:01:02 <ais523> the second [ and first ] have no reason to match each other, but the first and last have to match
22:01:16 <ais523> and thus I made the ones inside match too so that they didn't throw off the matching of the outside ones
22:02:18 <ais523> here's an equivalent program to that one (but slightly longer): [>+>->]-[[><>>>,>.[Hello, world!]]>++
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22:06:16 <ais523> most of the awkwardness in the language is to do with the use-mention distinction, which is kind-of more fluid than normal
22:07:18 <Taneb> Interesting
22:07:52 <Taneb> This is a very small rosetta stone to decode a language from, and that's not something I'm hugely good at in the first place
22:08:14 <ais523> indeed, I wasn't really expecting someone to figure it out, just as a thought process to see how difficult it would be
22:08:20 <ais523> I haven't written any larger programs yet
22:08:39 <ais523> even the hello world took a while to get working; I wrote it correctly the first time but was failing due to interp bugs
22:09:20 <haavard> That's the fun part
22:09:25 <haavard> "Which program is wrong?"
22:10:02 <ais523> well I got suspicious when the debug mode said that none of the commands were doing anything at all
22:10:33 <haavard> I really hope the example programs I pulled off the Internet are actually correct, otherwise using them as test cases would be a bad idea
22:11:38 <ais523> haavard: which language?
22:11:41 <ais523> or is that a secret?
22:11:50 <haavard> ><>, fish
22:13:29 <ais523> ah right
22:13:34 <ais523> that comes up at PPCG every now and then
22:13:51 <ais523> (also I don't get which PPCG caught on at Stack Exchange when it's one of the worst possible platforms for that sort of thing)
22:15:19 <haavard> Yeah, I was pretty amazed when I discovered someone actually wrote programs for my language :p
22:16:49 <ais523> oh, that's your language?
22:16:57 <ais523> it's about the right sort of power to make codegolf interesting
22:17:03 <ais523> (I suspect Takeover might be a little too weak
22:17:04 <ais523> )
22:17:09 <ais523> let me post an interp and the spec
22:17:58 <haavard> Yeah, it's something I puzzled up years ago
22:18:30 <haavard> Writing a new interpreter now, the old one probably sucks :P
22:19:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46081&oldid=46048 * Ais523 * (+15) /* T */ +[[Takeover]]
22:20:44 <shachaf> ais523: Are coalgebras found in naughty category theorists' stockings?
22:20:57 <ais523> hmm, not sure
22:23:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Takeover]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46082 * Ais523 * (+17083) new esolang
22:23:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Template:Yearcats]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46083&oldid=41593 * Ais523 * (+26) happy new year
22:24:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Category:2016]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46084 * Ais523 * (+11) happy new year
22:25:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ais523]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46085&oldid=46039 * Ais523 * (+14) +[[Takeover]] (wow this list is getting long)
22:26:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46086&oldid=46027 * Ais523 * (+67) /* Takeover */ new section
22:27:37 <ais523> Taneb: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Takeover if you want to see how the language works :-)
22:28:52 <Taneb> Thanks :)
22:29:06 <Taneb> btw what I've been calling my Eodermdrome exam went well today
22:29:53 <ais523> you had an exam on Eodermdrome?
22:30:29 <Taneb> I had an exam on programming by graph transformation
22:31:17 <Taneb> Which... actually does it about as differently from Eodermdrome as possible
22:31:25 <Taneb> It's based on directed graphs, for a start
22:32:16 <Taneb> ais523, if you're up to date with all the various graph programming languages used by precisely one department in one university, the lecturer is the creator of GP and GP2
22:32:29 <ais523> sadly I'm not :-(
22:32:47 <ais523> although having labels on the nodes, and directed arcs, makes programming a lot easier
22:33:10 <Taneb> Is https://www.cs.york.ac.uk/plasma/publications/pdf/Plump.WRS.11.pdf publicly accessible?
22:33:19 <fizzie> Apparently.
22:33:32 <Taneb> That's the design of GP 2
22:33:36 <Taneb> As you can tell from the title of the paper
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22:41:38 <boily> @metar CYUL
22:41:39 <lambdabot> CYUL 052200Z 23009KT 15SM FEW240 M13/M17 A3052 RMK CI1 CI TR SLP342
22:41:45 <boily> woohoo. M13.
22:41:50 <shachaf> @metar KOAK
22:41:51 <lambdabot> KOAK 052153Z 24006KT 10SM FEW013 BKN032 OVC045 11/09 A2972 RMK AO2 RAE40 SLP065 P0000 T01110089
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22:43:03 <boily> hellochaf.
22:43:11 <shachaf> yowly
22:43:20 <shachaf> @yowly
22:43:20 <lambdabot> Somewhere in DOWNTOWN BURBANK a prostitute is OVERCOOKING a LAMB CHOP!!
22:44:31 <boily> I am not a pinhead. I am sane.
22:44:40 <shachaf> @yow!
22:44:41 <lambdabot> Mr and Mrs PED, can I borrow 26.7% of the RAYON TEXTILE production of
22:44:41 <lambdabot> the INDONESIAN archipelago?
22:46:30 <boily> @metar RKSI
22:46:31 <lambdabot> RKSI 052230Z 13005KT 9999 SCT040 M02/M11 Q1027 NOSIG
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23:04:06 <boily> @metar ENVA
23:04:06 <lambdabot> ENVA 052250Z 13009KT CAVOK M12/M17 Q1013 RMK WIND 670FT 12009KT
23:04:26 <boily> hellørjan.
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23:06:34 <oerjan> brrroily
23:08:23 <oerjan> the yr.no weather forecast for my place says about -9, also a warning about wildfire danger in places in the region without snow.
23:08:49 <oerjan> perhaps we will have another strangely dry january like 2 years ago
23:09:34 <ais523> "There are of course, certain conditions under which the detector will not indicate the presence of ice: (a) When there is no ice."
23:10:00 <oerjan> shocking
23:10:48 <ais523> there was only one other condition listed
23:10:52 <oerjan> looks like it may stay dry but get a little less cold
23:11:06 <Taneb> "When there is no ice, or when the detector is broken"
23:12:35 <ais523> the other condition was about a paragraph but boiled down to "when there is not enough ice to detect"
23:12:42 <ais523> I feel like they missed quite a few, such as that one
23:13:03 <Taneb> "When there is WAY TOO MUCH ICE"
23:13:50 <fizzie> @metar EFHK
23:13:50 <lambdabot> EFHK 052250Z 02009KT 9999 FEW030 BKN053 M20/M22 Q1010 NOSIG
23:13:57 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
23:13:58 <lambdabot> EGLL 052250Z AUTO VRB02KT 5000 BR OVC047 06/06 Q0989 NOSIG
23:14:12 <fizzie> Aw, the temperature differential's not getting higher; 26 now.
23:15:38 <shachaf> M20?
23:15:46 <shachaf> When I was in EFHK it was 30.
23:16:32 <fizzie> That was probably not in January.
23:16:38 <shachaf> Correct.
23:16:48 <Taneb> @metar EGNT
23:16:49 <lambdabot> EGNT 052250Z 11013KT 090V150 9999 -RA BKN009 06/06 Q0992
23:16:49 <fizzie> I doubt it's ever been 30 at EFHK in January. Well, indoors maybe.
23:17:06 <Taneb> I hear that some of those numbers represent temperature
23:17:13 <fizzie> Taneb: That's the 06.
23:17:27 <Taneb> ...temperature 80 miles away from here
23:17:30 <fizzie> It can easily be 00 at EFHK in January, though, so M20 does count as pretty cold.
23:18:18 <shachaf> If you ask me M20 is too cold.
23:18:22 <ais523> @metar EGBB
23:18:22 <lambdabot> EGBB 052250Z VRB03KT 3900 RA SCT006 BKN049 06/06 Q0989
23:18:49 <fizzie> shachaf: The Finnish weather site I usually use says it's "feels like" value is -30°.
23:19:04 <ais523> temperature = dew point, does that mean no humidity?
23:19:10 <boily> M20 is interesting. my moustache and beard freeze.
23:19:27 <boily> ais523: it means 100% humidity hth
23:20:54 <fizzie> The forecast says it'll stay that cold until Friday (nightly lows at -25, -26, -26) but then on Sunday day it'll be at 0 (-7 at night).
23:20:55 <ais523> hmm, Wikipedia's example METAR has the wind at 120°, varying from 290° to 310°
23:20:59 <ais523> something seems wrong with tis
23:21:00 <ais523> *this
23:21:32 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
23:21:33 <ais523> fizzie: what temperature is it like indoors? and how often do you have to go outdoors in such conditions?
23:21:47 <boily> metacircular winds.
23:22:17 <fizzie> Indoor temperatures generally don't vary, unless you're stuck in an old house or something. They know about insulation.
23:25:22 <ais523> hmm, it's not raining here at the university, but it apparently is at the airort
23:25:47 <ais523> although given the apparent lack of wind, it might take a while for the rain to get here, if indeed it's even moving in this direction
23:25:51 <fizzie> Well, I mean, they do vary in the sense that in the summer indoor temperatures are unbearably hot for a few days, because they *don't* know about air conditioning.
23:26:58 <fizzie> I don't think I've ever lived anywhere with inadequate heating or drafty rooms for a long period of time.
23:27:44 <Taneb> The university here has a weather station, but lambdabot doesn't know about it
23:28:29 <fizzie> This current place is all-electric heating, so the indoor temperature is whatever we configure the radiators at, and then it just costs more. I think we're paying some ridiculous multiple of what our power bill in Finland used to be, here.
23:29:51 <fizzie> (District heating is very widespread in Finland, AIUI.)
23:30:06 <oerjan> <Taneb> quintopia, "four" is the only number in the English language with as many letters as its value <-- also, all others converge to it after a few steps
23:30:16 <ais523> electric heating is pretty rare in the UK
23:30:25 <ais523> most places have gas-based central heating
23:30:58 <fizzie> ais523: We don't even have a gas hob, which was somewhat difficult to arrange here.
23:31:15 <oerjan> in norwegian, 2=to, 3=tre, 4=fire all work...
23:31:23 <Taneb> My parents house has gas heating and a wood-burning stove
23:31:26 <ais523> hobs/ovens are about equally split gas/electric in my experience
23:31:45 <ais523> ah right, wood/coal heating is not unheard of
23:32:04 <ais523> you can buy coal/charcoal/firewood at pretty much any petrol station, so presumably there are people who do
23:32:19 <ais523> (en_GB:petrol = en_US:gasoline)
23:32:21 <fizzie> Finnish probably doesn't have any sorted numbers.
23:32:45 <oerjan> fizzie: not about sorting
23:32:59 <oerjan> hm although
23:33:10 <fizzie> Oh, this was something else? Right, I didn't even verify.
23:33:44 <ais523> fizzie: numbers whose length equals their numerical value
23:33:44 <fizzie> You can buy charcoal and firewood at pretty much any petrol station in Finland too, but I've always assumed those are mostly for people doing cooking outdoors.
23:34:09 <fizzie> We've got viisi (5).
23:34:23 <ais523> for some reason I'm reminded of Last ReSort, which similarly compares two numbers in different units
23:34:45 <fizzie> Kahdeksan (8, length 9) and yhdeksän (9, length 8) are just the wrong way around.
23:34:59 <ais523> those are weird names for numbers!
23:35:06 <oerjan> no. 1=en, ei, ett is pretty sorted. in all genders. i think that's the only number though.
23:35:07 <ais523> (8 and 9, that is; 5 seems reasonable)
23:35:34 <ais523> words which have no repeated letters, and letters in alphabetical order
23:35:47 <ais523> are much loved by NetHack players because you can spell them in prompts
23:35:51 <fizzie> Yksi, kaksi, kolme, neljä, viisi, kuusi, seitsemän, kahdeksan, yhdeksän, kymmenen; yksitoista, kaksitoista, kolmetoista, neljätoista, viisitoista, kuusitoista, seitsemäntoista, kahdeksantoista, yhdeksäntoista; kaksikymmentä, kaksikymmentäyksi, kaksikymmentäkaksi, ... and then it's mostly systematic.
23:35:55 * ais523 tries to remember what the longest words with its letters in sorted order is
23:35:56 <fizzie> They're pretty long.
23:36:04 <fizzie> As you'd expect, in colloquial speech people abbreviate them.
23:36:14 <Taneb> ais523, spoonfeed is longest in reverse order
23:36:43 <ais523> I once borrowed a book from a library which was basically just about words with unusual properties, including records
23:36:49 <ais523> it's where I got the name "eodermdrome" from
23:37:04 <oerjan> <ais523> something seems wrong with tis <-- the difference is about 180, so presumably it's a toward/away from swap
23:37:20 <ais523> (it was discussing the shortest possible word with a nonplanar adjacency graph)
23:37:29 <fizzie> oerjan: It shouldn't have one, though, according to the METAR decoded instructions I usually look at.
23:38:57 <ais523> `` wc /usr/share/dict/words
23:39:04 <ais523> I hope we have a dictionary in HackEgo
23:39:08 <HackEgo> wc: /usr/share/dict/words: No such file or directory
23:39:09 <ais523> more fun than doing things locally
23:39:12 <ais523> bleh
23:39:39 <fizzie> The numbers 11..19 are all of the form "<X>toista" where "<X>" is one of 1..9; the suffix "-toista" means approximately "of the second".
23:39:58 <fizzie> So 17 -> "7 of the second [set of ten]".
23:40:28 <fizzie> We don't even have special words for 11 or 12.
23:41:53 <ais523> where is HackEgo physically?
23:41:55 <ais523> `help
23:41:55 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
23:41:58 <fizzie> Also when the sorted numbers came up, the /usr/share/dict/words on my work-workstation only had English sorted words for up to length of about 6 when disallowing repetitions.
23:42:09 <fizzie> "almost" was one of them.
23:42:48 <fizzie> I made the obligatory Perl oneliner, it involved a join("", sort { ord($a) <=> ord($b) } split //) construct.
23:42:56 * ais523 geolocates the IP
23:43:15 <fizzie> ais523: The fshg browser is not physically where HackEgo is, sorry.
23:43:21 <fizzie> There's a reverse-proxy setup involved.
23:43:32 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
23:43:36 <ais523> fizzie: I'm using its /whois IP
23:43:41 <fizzie> Oh, right.
23:43:47 <ais523> which is presumably how it connects to the internet
23:43:56 <ais523> Finland, it seems
23:43:58 <fizzie> I just thought `help was related, and didn't think it's probably not cloaked.
23:44:05 <ais523> wait no
23:44:08 <ais523> I missed a digit
23:44:15 <fizzie> That sounded very unlikely.
23:44:22 <ais523> Ontario, Canada
23:44:23 -!- Trinity has joined.
23:44:23 -!- Trinity has quit (Changing host).
23:44:23 -!- Trinity has joined.
23:44:31 <fizzie> I'd been assuming CloudAtCost is in the states somewhere.
23:44:33 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, are you runing hackego these days?
23:44:41 <ais523> `fetch http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/scowl/wamerican_7.1-1_all.deb
23:44:44 <HackEgo> 2016-01-05 23:44:32 URL:http://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/pool/main/s/scowl/wamerican_7.1-1_all.deb [272134/272134] -> "wamerican_7.1-1_all.deb" [1]
23:44:45 <oerjan> ais523: my understanding is that the finnish words for 8 and 9 are derivations adding a suffix -ks[aä]n to a form of 2 and 1 respectively
23:45:13 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: Not really, just sort of helping out occasionally since I've got a thing on the system for maintaining the wiki.
23:45:35 <ais523> `ar t wamerican*.deb
23:45:36 <HackEgo> ar: invalid option -- ' ' \ Usage: ar [emulation options] [-]{dmpqrstx}[abcDfilMNoPsSTuvV] [--plugin <name>] [member-name] [count] archive-file file... \ ar -M [<mri-script] \ commands: \ d - delete file(s) from the archive \ m[ab] - move file(s) in the archive \ p - print file(s) found in the archive \
23:45:58 <fizzie> oerjan: I've never thought about that, but it sounds even almost plausible.
23:46:12 <ais523> what kind of crazy ar impl is this?
23:46:14 <ais523> oh
23:46:18 <ais523> `` ar t wamerican*.deb
23:46:19 <HackEgo> debian-binary \ control.tar.gz \ data.tar.gz
23:46:31 <ais523> `` ar x wamerican*.deb data.tar.gz
23:46:33 <HackEgo> No output.
23:46:45 <ais523> `` tar tfz data.tar.gz
23:46:48 <HackEgo> ​./ \ ./usr/ \ ./usr/share/ \ ./usr/share/dict/ \ ./usr/share/dict/american-english \ ./usr/share/doc/ \ ./usr/share/doc/wamerican/ \ ./usr/share/doc/wamerican/README.Debian \ ./usr/share/doc/wamerican/changelog.Debian.gz \ ./usr/share/doc/wamerican/copyright \ ./usr/share/doc/wamerican/wamerican.scowl-word-lists-used \ ./usr/share/man/ \ ./usr/s
23:47:35 <ais523> `` tar -xzOf data.tar.gz ./usr/share/dict/american-english > dict-words
23:47:37 <HackEgo> No output.
23:47:41 <ais523> `` wc dict-words
23:47:42 <HackEgo> ​ 99171 99171 938848 dict-words
23:47:45 <ais523> there we go
23:47:50 <ais523> `` rm data.tar.gz
23:47:53 <HackEgo> No output.
23:47:58 <ais523> `` rm wamercan*.deb
23:47:59 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `wamercan*.deb': No such file or directory
23:48:03 <ais523> `` rm wamerican*.deb
23:48:07 <HackEgo> No output.
23:48:15 <zgrep> `` echo No output.
23:48:16 <HackEgo> No output.
23:48:22 <ais523> I should have got a Canadian list really but American is the default
23:49:40 <ais523> `` grep a*b*c*d*e*f*g*h*i*j*k*l*m*n*o*p*q*r*s*t*u*v*w*x*y*z* dict-words
23:49:41 <HackEgo> A \ A's \ AA's \ AB's \ ABM's \ AC's \ ACTH's \ AI's \ AIDS's \ AM's \ AOL \ AOL's \ ASCII's \ ASL's \ ATM's \ ATP's \ AWOL's \ AZ's \ AZT's \ Aachen \ Aaliyah \ Aaliyah's \ Aaron \ Abbas \ Abbasid \ Abbott \ Abbott's \ Abby \ Abby's \ Abdul \ Abdul's \ Abe \ Abe's \ Abel \ Abel's \ Abelard \ Abelson \ Abelson's \ Aberdeen \ Aberdeen's \ Abernathy
23:49:46 <ais523> hmm
23:49:53 <ais523> `` grep ^a*b*c*d*e*f*g*h*i*j*k*l*m*n*o*p*q*r*s*t*u*v*w*x*y*z*$ dict-words
23:49:54 <HackEgo> a \ abbess \ abbey \ abbot \ abet \ abhor \ abhors \ ably \ abort \ abuzz \ accent \ accept \ access \ accost \ ace \ aces \ achoo \ achy \ act \ ad \ add \ adder \ adders \ adds \ adept \ ado \ adopt \ ads \ adz \ aegis \ aery \ affix \ afoot \ aft \ aglow \ ago \ ah \ ahoy \ ail \ ails \ aim \ aims \ air \ airs \ airy \ all \ allot \ allow \ allo
23:50:03 <ais523> so how do I sort by length
23:50:10 <ais523> sort doesn't have an option for that
23:50:31 <fizzie> I usually just print a length column in front.
23:50:36 <fizzie> Then sort -nr and then cut it out.
23:51:05 <ais523> `` grep ^a*b*c*d*e*f*g*h*i*j*k*l*m*n*o*p*q*r*s*t*u*v*w*x*y*z*$ dict-words | perl -ne 'push @a; END {print sort {length $b <=> length $a} @a}'
23:51:09 <HackEgo> No output.
23:51:12 <ais523> hmm
23:51:12 <fizzie> `` grep ^a*b*c*d*e*f*g*h*i*j*k*l*m*n*o*p*q*r*s*t*u*v*w*x*y*z*$ dict-words | perl -ne 'print length($_), " ", $_;' | sort -nr | head
23:51:14 <HackEgo> 8 billowy \ 7 knotty \ 7 glossy \ 7 floppy \ 7 floors \ 7 effort \ 7 choppy \ 7 choosy \ 7 chintz \ 7 chinos
23:51:22 <ais523> `` grep ^a*b*c*d*e*f*g*h*i*j*k*l*m*n*o*p*q*r*s*t*u*v*w*x*y*z*$ dict-words | perl -ne 'push @a, $_; END {print sort {length $b <=> length $a} @a}'
23:51:23 <HackEgo> billowy \ abbess \ abhors \ accent \ accept \ access \ accost \ adders \ almost \ begins \ bellow \ billow \ biopsy \ cellos \ chills \ chilly \ chimps \ chinos \ chintz \ choosy \ choppy \ effort \ floors \ floppy \ glossy \ knotty \ abbey \ abbot \ abhor \ abort \ abuzz \ achoo \ adder \ adept \ adopt \ aegis \ affix \ afoot \ aglow \ allot \ all
23:51:27 <ais523> there we go
23:51:36 <ais523> not very many such sorted words, it seems
23:52:10 <fizzie> I always even just print length($_) instead of the actual length (counts the newline), since it doesn't change the ordering.
23:52:33 <fizzie> I remember biopsy and almost from the list.
23:52:45 <oerjan> `` find | grep -i word
23:52:56 <HackEgo> ​./bin/rainwords \ ./bin/words \ ./bin/word \ ./dict-words \ ./share/WordData \ ./share/WordData/French \ ./share/WordData/GermanMedical \ ./share/WordData/Brazilian \ ./share/WordData/EngUs \ ./share/WordData/Finnish \ ./share/WordData/Bulgarian \ ./share/WordData/Ogerman \ ./share/WordData/EngGb \ ./share/WordData/Catalan \ ./share/WordData/Spa
23:53:15 <ais523> ooh, we have WordData too
23:53:25 <fizzie> It may not be in a reasonable format.
23:53:29 <ais523> but I think that's ngrammed
23:53:45 <oerjan> `` find | grep -i word | grep -v share/WordData
23:53:48 <HackEgo> ​./bin/rainwords \ ./bin/words \ ./bin/word \ ./dict-words \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/word.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/rainwords.i \ ./.hg/store/data/bin/words.i \ ./.hg/store/data/p7zip__9.20.1/_d_o_c_s/_m_a_n_u_a_l/switches/password.htm.i \ ./.hg/store/data/git-master/t/t4034-diff-words.sh.i \ ./.hg/store/data/share/_word_data \ ./.hg/store/data/share
23:54:02 <shachaf> `` ghc -e 'interact $ unlines . sortBy (compare `on` length) . filter (\x -> x == sort x) . lines' < dict-words
23:54:03 <HackEgo> bash: ghc: command not found
23:54:05 <shachaf> scow
23:54:11 <oerjan> `` find | grep -i word | grep -v share/WordData | grep -v '\.hg'
23:54:15 <HackEgo> ​./bin/rainwords \ ./bin/words \ ./bin/word \ ./dict-words \ ./wisdom/word \ ./wisdom/password
23:54:17 <ais523> `` grep ^a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?$ dict-words | perl -ne 'push @a, $_; END {print sort {length $b <=> length $a} @a}'
23:54:18 <HackEgo> No output.
23:54:33 <ais523> `` grep ^a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?$ dict-words | perl -ne 'push @a, $_; END {print sort {length $b <=> length $a} @a}'
23:54:34 <HackEgo> No output.
23:54:40 <ais523> what did I get wrong there?
23:54:46 <oerjan> shachaf: Gregor didn't reinstall ghc when he moved servers
23:55:04 <oerjan> ais523: no quotes?
23:55:17 <ais523> shouldn't have mattered, but maybe it does
23:55:22 <Taneb> 9 aegilops
23:55:24 <ais523> `` grep '^a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?$' dict-words | perl -ne 'push @a, $_; END {print sort {length $b <=> length $a} @a}'
23:55:25 <HackEgo> No output.
23:55:35 <ais523> Taneb: what sort of word is "aegilops"
23:55:46 <oerjan> it's all greek to me
23:55:46 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
23:55:51 <ais523> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aegilops
23:56:00 <fizzie> ais523: egrep.
23:56:06 <Taneb> ais523, I have a wordlist with a lot of words in it
23:56:07 <ais523> fizzie: oh ofc
23:56:07 <shachaf> `` wc -l dict-words
23:56:09 <fizzie> Or a lot of slashes.
23:56:10 <HackEgo> 99171 dict-words
23:56:10 <ais523> `` egrep '^a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?$' dict-words | perl -ne 'push @a, $_; END {print sort {length $b <=> length $a} @a}'
23:56:11 <HackEgo> certainty \ imprudent \ loquacity \ abstains \ acerbity \ acquaint \ adequacy \ adjacent \ adorably \ airships \ belabors \ chivalry \ chowders \ citadels \ corsairs \ definers \ deforest \ degrades \ develops \ eloquent \ envelops \ foremost \ hindmost \ horsefly \ hostelry \ impudent \ invaders \ mortuary \ ability \ abrades \ abstain \ academy \
23:56:13 <Taneb> Including chthonian
23:56:37 <ais523> in NetHack you can use capital letters as well as lowercase letters to make it work a bit longer
23:56:49 <fizzie> I remember loquacity from the last time the NetHack inventory compatibility topic came up.
23:56:54 <shachaf> NetHack reverses capital and lowercase letter sorting or something, right?
23:57:05 <ais523> shachaf: capitals sort later than lowercase
23:57:12 <ais523> that's not so much "reverse" as just "different from ASCII"
23:57:25 <Taneb> Without any conditions on the words: 61 Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch's
23:57:30 <Taneb> This is a lot of words
23:57:35 <ais523> huh, apparently it used to be spelt ægilops
23:57:44 <fizzie> I have a feeling the place I work, they'd have long lists of words too.
23:57:48 <fizzie> `` file dict-source # this had a relatively amusing result
23:57:48 <ais523> which is a ligature that the topic doesn't have :-P
23:57:49 <HackEgo> dict-source: ERROR: cannot open `dict-source' (No such file or directory)
23:57:54 <fizzie> Er.
23:57:55 <ais523> `` file dict-words
23:57:57 <HackEgo> dict-words: assembler source, UTF-8 Unicode text
23:58:06 <fizzie> Yes, thinko.
23:58:07 <ais523> who writes asm in UTF-8 :-P
23:58:25 <ais523> I guess it's /shaped/ like asm, but doesn't have nearly enough punctuation and numbers
23:59:04 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined.
23:59:35 <fizzie> Where I used to work, we had a copy of https://catalog.ldc.upenn.edu/LDC2006T13 which I used a couple of times for random things like this. It's got 13588391 "words".
23:59:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:59:51 <ais523> why does almost every PDF end up leaking internal filename details from the computer it was made via its title?
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