←2016-01-18 2016-01-19 2016-01-20→ ↑2016 ↑all
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00:24:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Al Dente]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46224&oldid=42774 * * (+145)
00:26:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Al Dente]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46225&oldid=46224 * * (+23)
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00:37:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Al Dente]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46226&oldid=46225 * * (+200)
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00:42:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Al Dente]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46227&oldid=42356 * * (+1) BNF doesn't support the repetition operator, but EBNF does.
00:47:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Al Dente examples]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46228&oldid=41776 * * (+448) Addition? Sounds good.
00:50:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * LexiciScriptor * New user account
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01:12:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46229&oldid=41016 * * (+98) /* Someone should change the featured language. */ new section
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01:17:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Minebit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46230&oldid=46162 * * (+42) Adding categories cuz why not.
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01:38:16 <ais523> hmm, so I'm reading about the debate about what the archipelago which includes Great Britain, Ireland, and a number of smaller islands shoud be called
01:38:49 <ais523> the Wikipedia article mentions that using the Roman term would be inappropriate because it also includes various other places, such as "Thule"
01:39:10 <ais523> reading about Thule, though, implies that it's a historical name for some landmass in the northwest of Europe but nobody's quite sure which one
01:39:41 <ais523> (apparently the leading theory is that was a misidentification of Norway as an island)
01:40:26 <ais523> this seems to be verging into the field of esogeography
01:40:34 <ais523> which I'm sure is something that hppavilion[1] will invent given enough time
01:40:54 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: It probably is
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01:42:47 <ais523> apparently even in the historical record, there was a lot of scepticism about exactly where Thule was; the geography of northern Europe wasn't well understood in those days
01:45:36 <ais523> hmm, the obvious theory here is that everyone who attempted to go there ended up somewhere different from each other, and that's what causes the contradictory evidence
01:45:59 <ais523> and "various places in northwest europe, north of great britain" ended up being mistakenly merged into one general geographical concept
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01:58:57 <zzo38> I am writing the document "Magic: the Puzzling: Codex" anyone who works with the puzzling should mention anything that needs to be mentioned in case I forget, so that I will not make a mistake.
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02:18:50 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: create a GUI where the entire image displayed has to be an analytic function.
02:19:17 <tswett> Now, you probably don't know what an analytic function is. Lemme give a terse intuitive explanation.
02:20:24 <tswett> Most everyday mathematical functions are analytic: addition, multiplication, exponentiation, trigonometric functions, logarithms, radicals and whatnot...
02:21:46 <tswett> Analytic functions have a cool property: given just one little piece of an analytic function (say, the sine function from 0.037 to 0.038), you can, theoretically, figure out the entire function... or, well, at least a lot of it.
02:22:02 <tswett> Piecewise functions, however, are, in general, not analytic.
02:22:10 <tswett> You can almost think of "analytic" as meaning "not piecewise"!
02:22:28 <tswett> Though that's not particularly accurate.
02:23:06 <tswett> So, people who program for this GUI wouldn't be able to say "I want this to be black for x < 50 and white for x > 50". That's a piecewise function; you can't do that.
02:24:15 <tswett> You'd have to somehow build it out of multiplication and so forth.
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02:51:57 <ais523> tswett: wouldn't you just use a very large polynomial, fitted independently to each pixel?
02:52:10 <tswett> Maybe.
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03:00:04 <zzo38> I have read somewhere else, someone figured that it is possible to win with Hedron Alignment without ever passing through any end step or cleanup step.
03:04:23 <ais523> zzo38: yes, IIRC it requires using Karn's ultimate on turn 1
03:04:56 <ais523> which requires you to have a starting hand that can produce 7 mana on turn 1 (more, in fact, because you have to play other cards); this isn't impossible but it does require a huge amount of luck
03:06:01 <zzo38> Yes I know you need to be good luck, but I would think that you can assume that you have good luck, if attempting to figure out such a puzzle
03:07:07 <ais523> right
03:07:27 <ais523> but in that case you can probably meet any of the alternate win conditions without going through a cleanup step
03:08:00 <ais523> and the only reason you need to ultimate Karn is if they trigger right at the start of the upkeep before you can do anything (this is true of most but not all alternate win conditions)
03:08:21 <zzo38> This card does require upkeep though
03:08:43 <ais523> yes
03:09:01 <ais523> actually if you use Un-cards you can probably do it without Karn, using Topsy Turvy
03:09:09 <ais523> although I'm not quite sure what happens to the current turn when you play it
03:09:39 <zzo38> Neither am I; the Un-cards don't have any proper rule support
03:12:13 <zzo38> (For example, many people argue about R&D's Secret Lair; I would think that if used together with an old Lightning Bolt card then you are allowed to damage all nontoken creatures/planeswalkers at once, but there is no proper rule support for such thing therefore I think it cannot be called either right or wrong)
03:13:10 <ais523> zzo38: do you think R&D's Secret Lair prevents Wastes generating mana
03:13:36 <ais523> AFAICT the only consistent way to interpret the reason that Wastes generates mana is that it was errata'd upon release
03:13:49 <zzo38> I would say yes itdoes
03:13:50 <ais523> because there is no rules text for it on the card, nor in the rules, its rules text is only on Oracle
03:14:33 <zzo38> It also makes Portal basic lands to generate no mana
03:15:19 <zzo38> But the newer textless lands (which are now common) do generate mana
03:17:44 <ais523> textless basic lands would generate mana because of their basic land subtypes
03:17:57 <ais523> also this makes textless dual-subtype lands better, beacuse they lose their drawbacks
03:18:28 <zzo38> Yes that is why I say they do generate mana
03:20:03 <zzo38> And under the influence of R&D's Secret Lair, the Island from Fifth Edition still generates blue mana and is named "Island" but is not basic and is not an Island.
03:23:33 <zzo38> While I have seen many comments mentioning people will use it and target lands or cards in graveyard or whatever (which I would still consider legal, but nothing happens if you do), nobody has mentioned the "damage everything" effect I have mentioned, as far as I can tell.
03:23:47 <zzo38> But what do you think it is?
03:24:39 <ais523> lands with "{T}: Add {U} to your mana pool" but aren't Islands are actually considered quite valuable in some formats, because they make the deck more resistant to cards like Choke
03:24:56 <ais523> also what's the wording of the version of Lightning Bolt in question?
03:25:20 <ais523> "Lightning Bolt does 3 damage to any target", right?
03:25:42 <ais523> I don't think "each creature" is a valid target under the rules; at least, there's no card that attempts to target it
03:25:42 <zzo38> Yes
03:26:00 <ais523> you could arguably target a battlefield but that wouldn't do anything, battlefields can't take damage
03:26:02 <zzo38> I agree that isn't a valid target, but the battlefield is a valid target.
03:26:12 <ais523> (note that R&D's Secret Lair doesn't change the rules, just the cards)
03:26:27 <zzo38> See rule 400.11
03:26:51 <zzo38> (Tokens will not be damaged in this case)
03:27:24 <ais523> what does that rule say? I don't have a copy of the rules handy
03:28:04 <zzo38> An action that is performed on a zone is performed on all cards in that zone.
03:28:40 <zzo38> (For example, "shuffle your hand into your library" mean you must shuffle all cards in your hand into your library)
03:28:55 <ais523> ah right
03:29:12 <ais523> so in that case the only remaining problem is if the battlefield is a legal target
03:29:16 <ais523> the main problem is that there's only one of it
03:29:27 <ais523> meaning that a card would never say "target battlefield", it'd just say "the battlefield"
03:30:05 <zzo38> Yes, although what they would and would not print seems irrelevant
03:30:38 <ais523> not really, I interpret "any target" as meaning "anything that could be targeted", so it rather depends on whether the battlefield could be targeted, by any hypothetical card
03:30:41 <ais523> and I feel that it couldn't be
03:30:58 <zzo38> I think it can be. The rules say zones can be targeted.
03:32:20 <ais523> there is only one card that targets a zone
03:32:45 <zzo38> "Any hypothetical card" can include even cards that they will never actually print, I believe
03:34:22 <zzo38> Anyways "target battlefield" does in fact have a different effect than "the battlefield" in some cases. For example "Put a token copy of target creature onto target battlefield. Draw a card." will cause you to draw a card even if the target creature is invalid because it still has some valid targets
03:34:43 <zzo38> And spells that can retarget only spells that have a single target, won't affect it
03:35:07 <ais523> so is it possible to give the battlefield protection? or hexproof?
03:35:12 <ais523> (using R&D's secret lair)
03:35:40 <zzo38> As far as I know, zones cannot have abilities, nor does any card give "any target" protection or hexproof
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03:36:22 <zzo38> If something gave the zone the ability though, it instead gives all cards in that zone the ability anyways if zones cannot have abilities
03:40:40 <zzo38> The "Magic: the Puzzling: Codex" (incomplete) is at: http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/codex.doc You may review what I have so far if you wish, although I am still editing it (live; the server is my own computer).
03:41:23 <ais523> what format is it in?
03:41:32 <ais523> not used to seeing .doc on websites
03:42:35 <\oren\> uh, isn't .doc always ms word?
03:43:11 <ais523> not always
03:43:12 <zzo38> In Windows it usually is
03:43:29 <ais523> sometimes it's used to mean "documentation" rather than "document", and even "document" is a very general term
03:43:42 <zzo38> But it can also be a plain text file, which in this case it is (having .DOC for plain text is a bit common in DOS, and sometimes others too)
03:45:21 <zzo38> But ".docx" is always Microsoft Word, I think
03:46:16 <ais523> .docx is the extension used for OOXML, which Microsoft wanted word processors other than Word to use (or claimed to)
03:46:17 <ais523> but very few did
03:46:25 <ais523> at least by default
03:46:43 <ais523> which rule is 100.6?
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03:48:27 <zzo38> Tournament rules
03:48:36 <ais523> zzo38: I think [8.1] should be clarified, as written it seems to contradict [8], and there's no obvious reason why Commander would be relevant there; also [8.1.1] should probably exclude the possibility of cards that can be played from a library while not searching it
03:48:57 <ais523> ah wait, [8.1.2] clarifies that bit
03:52:19 <zzo38> I clarified those rules a bit as to why Commander is relevant and that [8] has the exceptions listed below is mentioned explicitly now in rule [8]
03:54:04 <ais523> wait, don't Commander games have either no or infinitely large sideboards? where does the number of 10 come from?
03:54:42 <ais523> I know there's a combo in Commander where you use an activated ability that costs {20} and lets you get any number of Eldrazi cards from outside the game
03:54:52 <ais523> then you shuffle them into your library and use them to win with Battle of Wits
03:57:12 <zzo38> The Comprehensive Rules don't say so, although it says so in the other official Commander rules document
03:57:45 <zzo38> (And elsewhere)
03:58:10 <tswett> What's the card that targets a zone?
03:58:12 <zzo38> They ought to add it to the Comprehensive Rules though, it would seem to me
03:58:23 <ais523> tswett: Circu, Dimir Lobotomist
03:58:36 <ais523> the only reason it targets a zone is that targeting the player who owns the zone (which is the usual template) didn't fit on the card
03:59:33 <tswett> Like... if they wanted to make it say "target player's library", that would have made the text too long?
03:59:38 <zzo38> But I think it can now mean that it can be use even if that player is protected?
04:00:55 <ais523> tswett: right
04:01:22 <tswett> Hmmm. If you can target the battlefield with Lightning Bolt (in its version that says "any target"), presumably you could also target, say, a library.
04:01:28 <tswett> And so it would deal 3 damage to every card in that library.
04:01:34 <tswett> Which would, of course, ultimately have no effect.
04:01:48 <tswett> Do the rules actually permit dealing damage to something that isn't a permanent?
04:02:09 <tswett> Isn't a permanent or player, rather?
04:02:09 <ais523> you can damage a player
04:02:36 <ais523> hmm, you can certainly try to damage a creature and have it not be a creature by the time the effect resolves, in which case nothing happens
04:02:51 <ais523> I'd imagine damaging a creature cards in a library likewise has nothing happen
04:02:53 <ais523> *creature card
04:04:24 <tswett> I feel another stupid card idea coming on.
04:05:13 <ais523> something lke "search target player's library for any number of creature cards with toughness 2 or less, and place them in that player's graveyard"?
04:05:22 * \oren\ just fount out that "Youtube Red" is *not* google's move to dominate the porn industry.
04:06:02 <pikhq> \oren\: Yeaaah, it's a weird name IMO.
04:06:30 <tswett> Sorcery. You become a creature token with "This creature's power and toughness are each equal to your life total. If this creature would leave the battlefield, you cease to be an object instead."
04:06:52 <pikhq> tswett: o.o
04:06:55 <ais523> tswett: surely you also need a "place yourself onto the battlefield"
04:07:03 <ais523> also that reminds me a ton of Form of the Squirrel
04:07:20 <ais523> it interacts quite badly with Humility, though
04:07:40 <tswett> I guess "creature token" doesn't imply being on the battlefield the way that "creature" does.
04:08:22 <\oren\> it's such a misleading name that I assumed it was a premium porn thing and moved on without looking into it
04:08:42 <ais523> tswett: so what happens if someone gains control of the token? do they gain control of you in the same sense as Worst Fears?
04:08:51 <ais523> also, can they make you attack yourself?
04:09:39 <tswett> That's a good question. Controlling a player and controlling an object work differently.
04:10:42 <tswett> Then again, I think Magic has an ontology in which each entity has only one set of qualities, rather than a set of qualities for each sort of thing that it is.
04:11:31 <zzo38> My custom cards include rules to unify controlling players and controlling objects, although these custom card rules do not allow to put yourself into a field
04:11:34 <tswett> If X is a foo, and X is a bar, and foos have bazness, and bars also have bazness, then X doesn't have a separate bazness-as-a-foo and bazness-as-a-bar; it just has the one bazness.
04:11:37 <ais523> there's already a ton of rulings about Gideon blocking attacks on himself when a creature planeswalker
04:11:57 <ais523> (nearly always he gets some sort of damage prevention in order to make things less confusing)
04:12:28 <tswett> Man... ontologies.
04:13:24 <tswett> Actually, I think for the most part, Magic has a partitioning ontology: there are various classes, and each "thing in the game" falls into exactly one of those classes.
04:13:31 <tswett> It's just that one of those classes, "object", is really broad.
04:14:06 <zzo38> The rulings for Gideon blocking do match what I would expect and how I thought it worked anyways, due to reading the comprehensive rules and see no rules that specify it would work any differently to how I thought which is same as what it says on Gatherer rulings
04:14:10 <tswett> With that ontology, it's simply not possible for a player to be a token.
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04:16:43 <tswett> Anyway. I sleep night all.
04:26:36 <haavard> What if you create a 1/1 colorless Player token.
04:27:05 <zzo38> You can't
04:27:57 <haavard> There's something in the comp. rules stating you can't have tokens that are not one of the listed existing types, isn't there
04:28:34 <haavard> I know there's one when you have to name a creature type and such, you can't name "Fizziwonkle" because it's not an existing type
04:55:46 <hppavilion[1]> How secure is a non-SSL-wrapped TCP socket?
04:57:32 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: it can be read by anyone on the physical connection between the source and destination
04:57:45 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Ah.
04:57:51 <ais523> this includes the ISP and most governments; however, if you're using a wired connection, it's not likely to include most other people
04:58:06 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: What would be the good way to do it? I'm transmitting (unique, non-reused) passwords
04:58:14 <hppavilion[1]> SSL?
04:58:36 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: to be honest those nearly always get sent over insecure connections anyway (e.g. email), and it's rarely a problem
04:58:47 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Ah.
04:58:54 <ais523> if they need to be secure, though, SSL would probably be best
04:58:58 <hppavilion[1]> OK
04:59:03 <ais523> wrt security, use something widely used and well tested
04:59:07 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: It also needs to be fast (fast enough for a real-time game)
04:59:08 <ais523> otherwise it'll almost certainly be wrong
04:59:45 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Does that mean I need to jump through hoops and SSL only the passwords, or would SSL be fast enough?
05:00:04 <ais523> SSL isn't that slow
05:01:21 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: OK, I wasn't sure xD
05:03:21 <haavard> Don't optimise prematurely is a good saying
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06:03:00 <izabera> stupid question: if something used to take 10s and now it only takes 2s, is that a 500% speedup?
06:04:14 <ais523> only 400% surely? or 80% depending on what you measure relative to
06:06:21 <izabera> yes 400 sorry
06:06:29 <izabera> but mu question was exactly that
06:06:32 <izabera> 400 or 80?
06:07:21 <ais523> I'm leaning towards the 80 but am not sure why, there doesn't seem to be a logical reason to pick it
06:07:33 <ais523> I guess it's 400% faster, but the time is 80% smaller
06:09:49 <izabera> would it be clearer if i write "it now takes only a fifth of the time" ?
06:09:58 <ais523> yes, much clearer
06:10:12 <izabera> thanks
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06:47:35 <hppavilion[1]> haavard: Yes, but I was worried SSL might be orders of magnitude slower than is needed
06:47:54 <hppavilion[1]> anagramargana
06:48:24 <hppavilion[1]> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ much better names for "anagram"s
06:49:56 <lifthrasiir> hppavilion[1]: that should have been pallindromemordnillap
06:50:09 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: ...
06:50:10 <hppavilion[1]> Shit.
06:50:10 <lifthrasiir> s/ll/l/g
06:50:44 <hppavilion[1]> lifthrasiir: nag a ram is also a much better name for anagram
06:52:06 <lifthrasiir> that makes sense
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08:20:12 <J_Arcane> https://github.com/samshadwell/TrumpScript
08:20:18 <izabera> heh
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08:47:58 <oerjan> shachaf: ah so that was what roy meant.
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09:35:24 <mroman> Fnörd
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10:50:05 <mroman> pff "they don't have a financial adviser"..
10:50:16 <mroman> you don't need a financial adviser if you win Mio. of $
10:51:09 <mroman> you split it up and distribute it to different banks
10:51:26 <mroman> that's probably not the best thing in terms of interest rates
10:51:37 <mroman> but it should be decently safe so you don't go broke
10:51:42 <mroman> and you don't need a financial adviser for that.
10:52:35 <mroman> > 350000000 * (0.25 / 100)
10:52:36 <lambdabot> 875000.0
10:53:34 <mroman> that's 875k $ with 0.25% interest rates
10:54:21 <mroman> one year of interest rates gives you as much money as working ten years
10:54:23 <oerjan> what you don't realize is that your swiss genes make you biased hth
10:54:28 <mroman> how so?
10:54:47 <oerjan> basically, you're already a natural financial advisor hth
10:56:33 <mroman> well the problem is that taxes for 350'000'000 are huge :D
10:56:59 <mroman> it's like 2.5 Mio. in Tax per year with that kind of money
10:57:24 <mroman> roughly 2 Mio. tax per years
10:57:37 <mroman> (the interest rates aren't enough to cover all the taxes)
10:57:45 <mroman> > 350/2
10:57:47 <lambdabot> 175.0
10:58:12 <mroman> if you live with one million a year
10:58:15 <mroman> then uhm
10:58:17 <mroman> > 350/3
10:58:19 <lambdabot> 116.66666666666667
10:58:31 <mroman> you should have enough mone for at least a hundred years
10:59:42 <oerjan> OKAY
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11:00:06 <mroman> !
11:00:21 <mroman> funnily it doesn't really matter how much money you have
11:00:32 <mroman> sooner or later you'll loose everything to taxes :D
11:00:39 <mroman> like 8% a year goes to taxes
11:01:27 <mroman> you'd need 8% in interest rates to cover the taxes
11:01:33 <mroman> but that probably then counts as income
11:01:36 <mroman> and income is taxed too
11:01:37 <mroman> so
11:01:38 <mroman> :D
11:01:44 <mroman> you ain't getting rich on interest rates
11:04:15 <mroman> if you plan on getting rich THEN you need a financial adviser
11:04:45 <mroman> if you just plan to live off the money then you just put it into an account
11:15:27 <izabera> i've got an openbsd account on unixssh.com
11:15:30 <izabera> what do i do with it?
11:15:42 <izabera> they even gave me a subdomain for free
11:16:17 <izabera> free vps that i don't even need <.<
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11:40:56 <mroman> http://codepad.org/jHElmzhQ
11:41:06 <mroman> that doesn't look right @unixssh account creation
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12:11:35 <fizzie> It said "OK" right there, I'm sure it's fine.
12:16:10 <mroman> well it's not.
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12:25:59 <mroman> wtf
12:26:13 <mroman> you can't advertise unhealthy stuff to kids but to adults it's fine
12:26:15 <mroman> because u know
12:26:17 <mroman> fuck adults
12:26:46 <mroman> makes sense
12:26:53 <mroman> financially it's better if adults die younger
12:27:02 <myname> because adults need to be able to make adult(tm) decissions
12:30:58 <mroman> yeah
12:31:00 <mroman> which is stupid
12:31:10 <mroman> I don't know shit about what substances are dangerous to me
12:31:11 <mroman> nobody does
12:31:22 <mroman> and some substances probably don't even need to be declared on the product
12:32:02 <mroman> everybody who argues that "an adult should be able to make an informed decision" assumes that those adults manage to track papers, discoveries, know about substance interactions and whatever the fuck there is to know.
12:32:22 <mroman> and that assumption is horribly wrong.
12:32:59 <mroman> People do all kinds of wrong assumptions all the time.
12:33:39 <mroman> like the whole plastic bag debate
12:33:43 <mroman> it's so incredibly stupid.
12:34:18 <mroman> It's like "nooo people can't function without those plastic bag at grocerie stores we can't forbid them"
12:34:40 <mroman> what most likely happens is that people just buy a reusable bag once and then take it with them all the time.
12:35:56 <mroman> or forcing young adults to do extra courses on "how not to take drugs and drive a car while on drug"
12:36:01 <mroman> it's just bullshit.
12:36:51 <mroman> If you have the assumption that you can prevent every accident by forcing people to visit more courses then you're a moron.
12:37:12 <mroman> also sexual assault courses for immigrants...
12:37:13 <mroman> I mean...
12:37:22 <b_jonas> "<zzo38> (For example, many people argue about R&D's Secret Lair; I would think that if used
12:37:25 <b_jonas> zzo38> (For example, many people argue about R&D's Secret Lair; I would think that if used
12:37:55 <mroman> I'm very certain these guys in Köln knew what they're doign so I don't get where people get this assumption "they didn't know better, let's force them to visit courses and we'll teach them"
12:38:18 <b_jonas> "<zzo38> (For example, many people argue about R&D's Secret Lair; I would think that if used together with an old Lightning Bolt card then you are allowed to damage all nontoken creatures/planeswalkers at once," -- huh, how does that work?
12:39:20 <b_jonas> "<ais523> AFAICT the only consistent way to interpret the reason that Wastes generates mana is that it was errata'd upon release" -- yes, http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/oath-gatewatch-release-notes-2016-01-13 basically says that
12:40:23 <mroman> also these additional pre-driving courses are highly inefficient. You could just expand the theoretical exam to include material you'd cover in these courses and students ultimatevily have to learn that material to pass the exam.
12:41:01 <mroman> It wouldn't cost serious bucks and wouldn't waste too much time for people with common sense.
12:41:48 <b_jonas> ah, you say target the battlefield. crazy idea.
12:42:21 <mroman> It's like 250 bucks of 4 evening of getting told the average adult already knows anyway.
12:42:31 <mroman> +what
12:42:33 <b_jonas> ais523: but it is printed "to one target", not "to any target".
12:46:11 <b_jonas> "<ais523> also [8.1.1] should probably exclude the possibility of cards that can be played from a library while not searching it" -- um, are you thinking of 1996 World Champion, or of YAÆV?
12:49:33 <b_jonas> "<tswett> Then again, I think Magic has an ontology in which each entity has only one set of qualities, rather than a set of qualities for each sort of thing that it is."" -- objects (which are basically the manifestation of a card or other thing in a zone between when it's placed there and leaves) definitely have different properties from the base card (or other thing, eg. base token as it was created)
12:53:01 <b_jonas> mroman: um, I don't think it works like that. they made a pretty big deal about advertising cigarettes and other tobacco products like a decade ago, and so cigarette ads are practically nonexistant here, as are cigarette vending machines.
12:53:46 <b_jonas> that's been true for so long here that I was actually very surprised once when seeing cigarette ads in a foreign country.
12:54:16 <b_jonas> zzo38: is this Codex thing tries to be something like the chess puzzles codex?
12:57:39 <b_jonas> I hope you at least don't try to deliberately set up some paradoxes or quasi-paradoxes with strange definitions in the codex. Let me see.
12:59:31 <b_jonas> (You don't need to either, the rules of M:tG, especially the infinite rules, have more paradoxical definitions than the chess guys ever came up with.)
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13:16:26 <mroman> b_jonas: What do you mean?
13:17:16 <mroman> I think around here the rules are: No tobacco ads on TV
13:17:20 <mroman> but on the streets it's fine
13:18:15 <b_jonas> mroman: there are none on the streets here either.
13:18:19 <b_jonas> they're just not allowed.
13:19:01 <b_jonas> they aren't even allowed in the Formula-1 car race anymore, which was something of a big deal because a certain cigarette company used to be a big sponsor (I think this was wider in Europe, not only here)
13:19:29 <mroman> but what "doesn't work that way"?
13:20:12 <b_jonas> mroman: you said "you can't advertise unhealthy stuff to kids but to adults it's fine" -- but you can't. there are rules about what you can advertise to adults too, at least about tobacco and some other things.
13:26:15 <mroman> Ah, yes.
13:26:22 <mroman> There are regulations for ads targeting adults as well.
13:27:05 <b_jonas> Sure, but specifically about ads for unhealthy products like cigarettes.
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13:33:25 <mroman> I think all alcoholic beverages should have a "carcinogenic" warning label
13:33:35 <mroman> :D
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13:35:40 <b_jonas> zzo38: in the codex http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/codex.doc , near rule 4.1 you might have to mention restarting the game (as in Karn Liberated)
13:39:31 <b_jonas> zzo38: does rules 8.1.1 basically try to say that the opponent's library could contains something as broken as a debugging card with like "{0}: A player of your choice loses the game. You may play this ability from the battlefield, your hand, or the graveyard."
13:39:41 <b_jonas> s/the graveyard/a graveyard/
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14:45:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pyth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46231&oldid=44538 * * (-13) Fixed broken links to documentation and repository
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14:47:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hq9eFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46232&oldid=46194 * Ennullizer * (+41) /* Implementation */
14:49:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hq9eFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46233&oldid=46232 * Ennullizer * (+62) /* Implementation */
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14:49:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Ennullizer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46234&oldid=46195 * Ennullizer * (-256) /* Hq9eFuck */
14:49:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hq9eFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46235&oldid=46233 * Ennullizer * (+2) /* Implementation */
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16:41:43 <b_jonas> I can't get over this drawing style in Questionable Comics. Is that even Hannelore? How did she grow so much hair?
16:42:06 <zzo38> b_jonas: It is meant to be like chess puzzles codex, yes
16:43:22 <zzo38> I will add your suggestion about restarting the game
16:43:34 <b_jonas> She's not wearing her usual bright blue shirt and shorts, which makes her even more difficult to identify, especially for me who don't look at eye color much. But the dialog and the ear piercings give her away.
16:45:34 <int-e> different hair style, different eye-brows
16:46:15 <int-e> and you can see quite a bit of time passing in the previous comic anyway...
16:46:17 * int-e won't complain
16:46:23 <fizzie> b_jonas: It looked weird to me too, but I just assumed from the hair color.
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16:58:41 <b_jonas> M:tG trivia questions. When can it matter that your creature has deathtouch even if no creatures attack or block? When can it matter that your creature has reach, if there are no creatures with flying around?
16:59:03 <b_jonas> There may be some wildcard answers that work with many abilities, but try to find an answer in each case that works for that ability but not for trample instead.
17:00:23 <b_jonas> Also, when can it matter that your creature has banding if that's the only creature you have on the battlefield and you have no teammates? (This one is slightly different from the first two.)
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17:04:31 <FireFly> I guess there might be cards that do something for each creature you have in play with reach or so, but I wouldn't know
17:04:37 * FireFly has barely played MtG
17:05:56 <b_jonas> FireFly: do you mean like Hurricane or Earthquake (the normal one, not the portal three kingdoms one)?
17:06:55 <b_jonas> I don't think there's something like that for reach, but maybe there's a card that cares about reach in some other way? Hint, hint.
17:09:58 <FireFly> Hm
17:10:32 <b_jonas> FireFly: when did you play magic the most? as in, you're familiar with cards from what blocks the most?
17:10:54 <FireFly> Uhmm, good question
17:11:10 <FireFly> ~5 years ago, for maybe half a year very casually :P
17:11:19 <b_jonas> For me, it's mostly around tenth edition and Lorwyn
17:11:40 <b_jonas> 5 years ago, that's... let me check the timeline, Alara?
17:11:49 <b_jonas> no, after that
17:11:58 <FireFly> I'll look it up
17:12:01 <b_jonas> around M2010 and Zendikar
17:12:16 <b_jonas> and Scars
17:12:23 <b_jonas> and M11
17:12:31 <FireFly> The M11 logo looks familiar
17:12:33 <b_jonas> with all those nice black spells
17:12:36 <FireFly> set symbol*
17:13:12 <FireFly> well, I guess it could've been either of M10/M11
17:16:18 <b_jonas> (I mean Disfigure, Deathmark, Duress, Disentomb. The four dees for B.)
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