←2016-03-16 2016-03-17 2016-03-18→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:13 <oerjan> ais523: also it is possible wisdom/test is younger than your deletion, was it more than 17 months ago?
00:00:29 <ais523> oerjan: I can't remember
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00:02:03 <oerjan> boily: what's so bad about "til"? btw i realized the other day that the norwegian preposition "oppå" is cognate to up-up-on hth
00:03:52 <shachaf> oerjan: my client is messed up tdnh
00:04:01 <oerjan> basically, the norwegian "på" is cognate to en:upon, and means the same thing as en:on, and then the process repeated once more.
00:04:20 <boily> eh?
00:05:18 <oerjan> boily: no:oppå <- opp+på, no:på <- old norse:upp á
00:05:47 <oerjan> no:oppå = en:upon by meaning, but up+upon by etymology
00:06:00 <boily> up-up-on. there's something wrong going on there...
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00:06:27 <oerjan> basically á went out of use and på took its place.
00:06:48 <boily> on the other hand, we have “au dessus”: «at the of on».
00:06:59 <oerjan> O KAY
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00:11:34 <oerjan> also, i recall reading that "på" is the only norwegian word root that is not originally a borrowing that starts with "p".
00:11:49 <oerjan> of course, originally it started with "u", then.
00:12:02 <boily> upå?
00:12:08 <oerjan> upp á, i said
00:13:14 <oerjan> otoh there are some pretty old borrowings, like "prest"
00:14:57 <oerjan> does this mean PIE didn't have words starting with "b"?
00:15:58 <oerjan> (not to be confused with "bʰ")
00:17:34 <boily> http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=\data\ie\piet&first=241 ← has some b- words.
00:19:19 <oerjan> hm "peg"
00:20:51 <oerjan> fine, it is simply false, no:pinne is a counterexample.
00:21:44 <boily> let me guess: no:pinne is en:pine is fr:pin.
00:21:50 <oerjan> no, en:pin
00:22:12 <oerjan> en:pine = no:furu
00:22:16 <boily> close enough.
00:22:29 <boily> no:furu, as in en:fir?
00:23:07 <oerjan> hm yes those seem cognate
00:23:15 <oerjan> although en:fir = no:bartre
00:23:31 <b_jonas> heh, linguistics talk
00:23:54 <oerjan> or wait
00:23:59 <b_jonas> um, is norvegian "på" the same particle as swedish "på"?
00:24:02 <oerjan> en:fir isn't that broad
00:24:06 <oerjan> b_jonas: yeah
00:25:05 <boily> b_jhellonas. are Hungarian trees borrowed from PIE by chance, or completely ugric?
00:25:20 <oerjan> apparently en(US):fir = no:edelgran
00:25:39 <b_jonas> boily: "au dessus" doesn't seem too strange to me, if you compare it either to some other strange French stuff, or to those very few prepositions in Hungarian that require their argument in a case other than accusative
00:26:09 <b_jonas> boily: uh, I'm not sure, there are lots of trees, and I think they're borrowed from different languages because people met them in different times
00:26:35 <boily> . o O ( a time for trees... turn turn turn ♪ )
00:26:46 <b_jonas> and I don't really know much about etymology
00:27:21 <boily> and then you have en:larch vs. no:lerk.
00:27:24 <boily> the larch.
00:27:26 <boily> the larch.
00:27:39 <b_jonas> Presumably some of them probably come from finno-ugric roots, some from slavic, some from turkish, etc.
00:27:44 <oerjan> boily: what i remember is that the hungarian word for "apple" is the same as the kazakh one. (which makes sense since that's where apples come from.)
00:31:16 * oerjan notes that en. wiktionary has a table for alma + cases & plural, and a table for alma + possessives, but not one that combines them >:)
00:31:19 <b_jonas> boily: if I can trust the internets, then “fűz” (willow) and “nyír” (birch) are from finno-ugric stuff, whereas “tölgy” (oak) and “bükk” (beech) are of uncertain origin.
00:31:43 <boily> bükk feels very PIEish to me hth.
00:31:58 <oerjan> which would of course essentially multiply the table sizes afaik
00:32:16 <b_jonas> boily: basically, many things the Magyars met while they were still nomadic and shooting arrows backwards from their horses have finno-ugric names, and things they met later when they decided to stay put and do agriculture have names that come from Slavic or Turkish.
00:32:32 <boily> makes sense.
00:32:39 <b_jonas> “fenyő” (pine) also comes from finno-ugric
00:32:50 <boily> en:willow, but fr:saule and no:selje.
00:32:56 <b_jonas> because you don't need to do agriculture to just notice the big obvious trees that are in the mountains everywhere
00:33:42 <boily> how to recognize different types of trees.
00:33:52 <oerjan> <boily> and then you have en:larch vs. no:lerk. <-- well we're really not big on "ch" hth
00:35:35 <boily> en:ash no:ask...
00:36:00 <oerjan> not big on "sh" either
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00:36:12 <oerjan> en:oak no:eik
00:36:26 <oerjan> en:maple no:lønn
00:36:40 <oerjan> en:birch no:bjørk
00:36:40 <boily> érable sounds better imfo.
00:37:17 <oerjan> OKAY
00:37:18 <boily> an unusual one: en:yew no:barlind fr:if
00:37:50 <b_jonas> also, I totally don't know the names of most of these trees in English, I had to look them up
00:38:03 <oerjan> i didn't know that, or willow
00:38:14 <b_jonas> well, oak and pine and willow I do know, but not much more
00:38:28 <oerjan> en:spruce = no:gran
00:38:57 <b_jonas> I don't know the rest either way, as in, neither can I tell from the English word what tree it is, nor from the tree its English name, but then, I don't know too much about plants even in Hungarian
00:39:13 <b_jonas> I'm not really a botanics sort of guy
00:39:46 <b_jonas> correct
00:40:08 <boily> herpetology? seismology? chickens?
00:40:24 <oerjan> surely there must be a proper word for the study of chickens
00:40:46 <b_jonas> oerjan: farming?
00:40:48 <boily> probably herpetology, if you squint hard enough.
00:42:06 <oerjan> coelosaurology
00:42:58 <oerjan> hm i'm mispling that
00:43:29 <oerjan> *coelurosaurology
00:44:03 <\oren\> Ok... let's see how many mods I can install before ksp goes completely screwy
00:44:54 <\oren\> uh, avidomesticology?
00:44:59 <oerjan> \oren\: 0 hth
00:45:31 <oerjan> or should it be -1
00:45:59 <oerjan> \oren\: mixing greek and latin, ZERO ON THE FINAL
00:46:03 <\oren\> it's true I've had things go screwy even without any mods
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00:46:52 * oerjan should get some new memes but that would require actually browsing top subreddits
00:47:18 <ais523> the Marco Rubio meme is a new one and seems to be popular recently
00:48:02 <oerjan> hm are there retro-memeticists
00:48:23 <oerjan> people who wilfully use only memes at least 10 years old
00:48:49 <ais523> oerjan: maybe but nobody would recognise them as memes
00:49:06 <oerjan> darn
00:49:26 <oerjan> ais523: even if they're obvious clichés?
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00:49:37 <ais523> except possibly the whole "the cake is a lie" thing, where the fact that it's an outdated meme is itself a meme; not sure if the original is 10 years old yet though
00:51:29 <\oren\> marco is dead tho
00:51:42 <oerjan> ais523: wait which marco rubio meme, there seem to be at least 3
00:52:10 <ais523> oerjan: let's dispel with this faction that «obama» doesn't know what «he's» doing, «he» knows exactly what «he's» doing
00:52:16 <ais523> *with this fiction
00:52:24 <ais523> words in «» can be swapped out, and often are
00:52:32 <ais523> typically it gets repeated a few times, then someone says "ther eit is"
00:52:38 <ais523> * "there it is"
00:52:56 <oerjan> ok makes no sense tdh
00:53:06 <ais523> oerjan: that's why it became a meme, this actually happened
00:53:09 <ais523> in a debate, very high profile
00:53:22 <ais523> Rubio said it four times, three of them pretty much in a row (the third time after he'd been called for doing it twice)
00:53:30 <ais523> and "there it is" was the response at the time
00:54:15 <oerjan> okay
00:54:43 * oerjan considers dropping learning memes until the US election is over
00:54:57 <oerjan> i'm not following it anyhow.
00:55:00 <Sgeo__> oerjan, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNRNHgi1RzU
00:55:13 <oerjan> AAAA
00:55:40 <ais523> Sgeo__: I'm assuming that's a link to the original occasion?
00:55:52 <Sgeo__> ais523, yes
00:57:07 <Sgeo__> The fourth time he rephrased it a bit. Still got booes
01:00:30 <\oren\> mean while donald trump says exactly the same slogans a hundred times over
01:02:34 <\oren\> but then, his slogans are catchy
01:07:43 <boily> china china china china china china china china.
01:21:52 <lifthrasiir> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cdsr2R9WoAIx48G.jpg Canadian take-out!
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01:22:45 <lifthrasiir> boily: china is not a verb
01:23:14 <ais523> it is both a noun and an adjective though
01:23:28 <boily> lifthrasiir: bwah ah ah ah ah :D
01:23:28 <ais523> although the adjective-noun combination is either nonsensical or tautological depending on how you look at things
01:24:02 <boily> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs
01:24:34 <lifthrasiir> ais523: china china makes perfect sense
01:24:46 <lifthrasiir> to be exact, China china
01:24:56 <ais523> lifthrasiir: oh yes, that combination works
01:25:06 <ais523> and is one I hadn't thought of
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01:58:44 * oerjan puts a green hat on fungot
01:58:45 <fungot> oerjan: not by far. it's awesome. and by insane, i mean)
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02:50:39 <\oren\> "We don't win anymore! We don't win with trade, we don't win with Isis, we don't win with China, we don't win with healthcare. We are going to start winning again for the American people"
02:53:42 <\oren\> "we are going to build a wall, and who's going to pay for it?" "MEXICO!"
02:54:54 <\oren\> etc.
02:55:02 <\oren\> they're catchy
03:29:39 <\oren\> Let's just dispense with this notion that Barack Obama doens't knwo what he's doing
03:30:07 <\oren\> Barack Obama knows EXATLCY what he's doing
03:38:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Jimmy23013 * New user account
03:39:07 <ais523> \oren\: the original was "dispel with", which people keep misquoting because it isn't correct Enlish
03:39:11 <ais523> *English
03:39:22 <ais523> they keep mentally substituting something that's actually correct
03:40:17 <oerjan> let's just mispel with this substition
03:45:06 <\oren\> lol
03:51:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Undefined]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46605 * Jimmy23013 * (+1136) Created page with "'''Undefined''' is a programming language that, every program in it causes [[undefined behavior]]. Extra command line arguments and lack of source files also triggers undefine..."
03:52:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Undefined]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46606&oldid=46605 * Jimmy23013 * (+0)
03:57:47 <ais523> based on the edit summary snippet
03:57:55 <ais523> I'm assuming that every program in existence is an interpreter for this language
03:58:04 <ais523> called it :-)
03:58:47 <ais523> I like it, it's an absence-of-language joke that hasn't been done before
03:59:48 <zzo38> I have added XC_xterm_sideways
04:00:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Undefined]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46607&oldid=46606 * Ais523 * (+25) cat :-)
04:11:17 <zzo38> '!' for comment, ' ' for transparent, '-' for white, '#' for black, '.' for transparent hotspot, '+' for white hotspot, '@' for black hotspot
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04:23:01 <\oren\> ais523: I thought it must be a C variant
04:23:18 <\oren\> well, in a sense it is
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05:18:14 <zzo38> Do you know why XGetSubImage requires you to specify the format for the image (if the XImage structure will already specify)?
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07:07:46 <zzo38> What kind of effects for Magic: the Gathering cards might make interesting puzzles but that do not make sense for an actual game?
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07:12:39 <zzo38> (Possibly some such effects may even do things which are impossible in a normal game)
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07:24:08 <ais523> zzo38: a card that lets you undo the turn, perhaps
07:24:49 <ais523> for this to work in a puzzle you'd have to spend resources to gain information on what's in the opponent's hand or library (or some other hidden zone), undo the turn, then use the information to win
07:25:02 <ais523> and the solution would involve finding a winning path no matter what was there, but the details depended on what you found there
07:25:51 <zzo38> Yes that is one idea
07:25:51 <myname> i like that
07:30:59 <zzo38> OK
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07:45:10 <zzo38> Other things I have considered are many kind of effects that cause the game to end in a draw; with default stipulations, you have not solved the puzzle if the game ends in a draw for any reason.
07:51:22 <ais523> ooh, perhaps you could also use it to mill some cards to determine what order they are in, undo the mill, and then exploit your knowledge of which cards you'll draw
07:54:19 <zzo38> Yes
08:13:04 <b_jonas> zzo38: cards that are really overpowered if you can build decks with them (even in limited) but that somehow don't seem to help you in that particular puzzle. or really underpowered ones like One with Nothing; or ones obsolated for all practical purposes by different cards, like Squire.
08:18:01 <ais523> b_jonas: One with Nothing's effect is one that many decks find useful
08:18:09 <ais523> the problem is that there are better cards with the effect
08:18:25 <ais523> there's a creature costing B that you can discard cards to for free, for example
08:18:37 <ais523> and Lion's Eye Diamond costs 0 and gives you 3 mana, that's better than One with Nothing in two ways
08:27:43 <b_jonas> ais523: ok
08:28:40 <b_jonas> ais523: then Squire and Grizzly Bears might be better examples
08:29:08 <b_jonas> (maybe unless you're playing Muraganda Petroglyphs)
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08:39:55 <ais523> are there no white bears? those would be better than Squire in pretty much all practical circumstances
08:40:15 <ais523> (the only non-contrived situation I can think of offhand where you'd prefer a Squire involves an opponent's Ensnaring Bridge)
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09:29:56 <b_jonas> there is one non-changeling white bear, but white uses lions instead
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09:46:48 <b_jonas> And windows already has working pipes, only they start out with a too little buffer by default so you have to change the buffer size with a windows api call, but linux had that very same problem for a while until they increased the default buffer size.
09:47:32 <b_jonas> On unix, you dealt with it by using unix domain sockets, which both had a larger buffer and a buffer of whose size you can adjust with a sockopt call.
09:47:50 <b_jonas> It's worse on windows because no unix sockets.
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10:10:14 <mroman> fnąrd
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10:43:39 <boily> will it be the first thunderstorm of the year? stay tuned!
10:44:22 <boily> (or not. that shit can fry your machines you won't even have time to say fungot.)
10:44:22 <fungot> boily: why would it fail?
10:44:33 <boily> fungot: because ELECTRICITY!
10:44:34 <fungot> boily: is it possible to download an offline copy of teach scheme in fixnum days
10:44:56 <boily> fungot: I don't think you couldn't.
10:44:57 <fungot> boily: and for the live data. this is cool! :) works. i guess you know what the consequences of shouting out " heil bush" among friends, that would
10:45:30 <boily> fungot: we say «C't'une fois George Bush...» as a lead on for a stupid joke.
10:45:31 <fungot> boily: which is strange, but most libraries i see announced for cl do require low level tricky stuff :) forthers would say that.
10:45:48 <boily> fungot: forthers are special people.
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11:06:14 <izabera> did you know that canada is 50% the letter a
11:07:04 <boily> izabellora. now that you mention it...
11:08:22 <izabera> helloily
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11:17:34 <Taneb> izabera, the catalan language is almost 50% a's, too
11:18:45 <boily> Tanelle.
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19:13:14 <prooftechnique> Hellall
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19:20:16 <hppavilion[2]> Hm...
19:20:18 <hppavilion[2]> prooftechnique: Hi
19:20:23 <hppavilion[2]> adu: HI!
19:20:27 <hppavilion[2]> adu: YOU'RE HERE!
19:20:33 <hppavilion[2]> adu: AS OPPOSED TO BEING DEAD!
19:20:34 <hppavilion[2]> YAY!
19:20:37 <asie> YAY!
19:20:39 <asie> wait
19:20:42 <asie> what?
19:20:51 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Oooh, are you new?
19:20:59 <asie> no
19:21:02 <hppavilion[2]> Oh
19:21:06 <asie> i'm actually old, just stopped coming here for a few years
19:21:09 <asie> with brief interruptions
19:21:12 <asie> in which i did visit
19:21:13 <hppavilion[2]> asie: adu just hasn't been online when I was recently
19:21:15 <asie> but now i'm sticking around
19:21:19 <hppavilion[2]> Yay!
19:21:26 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Have you ever played Nomic?
19:21:31 <asie> Yes.
19:21:32 <asie> I love Nomic!
19:21:34 <asie> I ran a Nomic on Reddit once
19:21:40 <asie> good times
19:21:49 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Yay! I'm trying to start one over Github and just need one more player :)
19:21:52 <hppavilion[2]> https://github.com/hppavilion1/github-lambdanomic
19:21:56 <asie> Wait
19:21:58 <asie> With issues and pull requests?
19:22:11 <asie> :|
19:23:56 <prooftechnique> I'm so thrilled that I'm not dead
19:24:01 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Yeah, basically
19:24:07 <hppavilion[2]> asie: It's the best idea I had
19:24:21 <prooftechnique> We wshould really have a `rewelcome
19:24:37 <hppavilion[2]> asie: GitHub is an OK platform for it, for one particular reason: Branches
19:25:07 <prooftechnique> What do branches buy us?
19:25:52 <hppavilion[2]> prooftechnique: The ability to fork off games
19:25:59 <hppavilion[2]> (Not to be confused with actual forking)
19:26:08 <hppavilion[2]> (Not to be confused with fucking of any sort)
19:26:13 <hppavilion[2]> (xD)
19:27:44 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Is there a problem with doing it that way? Rule proposals are done via issues, not pull requests, mind you
19:28:07 <asie> GitHub does not have the best of interfaces
19:28:21 <hppavilion[2]> asie: It has a decent interface and hosts everything for me.
19:28:42 <hppavilion[2]> asie: And you use issues to propose rules, not pull requests, because that would be /pretty/ stupid
19:28:49 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Feel like playing at all?
19:28:53 <asie> Not sure.
19:28:58 <asie> I might just pop in on a random day
19:29:08 <hppavilion[2]> OK
19:29:19 <hppavilion[2]> asie: I need one more player to make it work xD
19:29:28 <asie> You don't xD
19:29:34 <hppavilion[2]> Because there are 3, and I want 4 players minimum (1 proposes a rule, 3 to vote)
19:29:41 <asie> Just add time
19:29:48 <hppavilion[2]> asie: ?
19:31:17 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Also, the game hasn't started yet, but the initial ruleset is complete, so I can't add time :P
19:31:35 <asie> Yes you can
19:31:40 <hppavilion[2]> asie: How?
19:31:45 <asie> You've just added 1.5 minutes of time between your last posts.
19:31:49 <asie> as in, on IRC
19:31:55 <asie> If you wait longer, you add more time.
19:32:00 <hppavilion[2]> xD
19:32:04 <asie> No xD.
19:32:06 <asie> Time is serious business.
19:32:23 <prooftechnique> I was thinking about a nomic based on Juno. The hard part is figuring out what sort of messages constitute a nomic
19:32:38 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Also, one of the existing players failed to follow the repo, and isn't showing up on IRC, so they won't get a memo when the game updates
19:32:44 <hppavilion[2]> Or when they have to vote
19:32:45 <hppavilion[2]> :/
19:33:04 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Are you AFK?
19:33:36 <hppavilion[2]> earendel: Hi
19:34:03 <hppavilion[2]> (wait, I think I confused earendel with Elronnd)
19:34:36 <earendel> hello anyway
19:34:42 <hppavilion[2]> earendel: Yep, same to you
19:34:57 <hppavilion[2]> earendel: You wouldn't happen to be a Nomic player, would you?
19:35:08 <earendel> nope, sry.
19:35:12 <hppavilion[2]> OK :/
19:35:50 <prooftechnique> `? elrond
19:36:12 <HackEgo> Elrond is a rogue program originally created to police the Matrix, eventually gaining increased individuality and becoming a threat to the Machines themselves.
19:36:58 <hppavilion[2]> prooftechnique: You're part of gh λ-n, right? Do you know of anyone who would like to join so we can have enough people?
19:38:45 <int-e> `wisdom
19:38:52 <HackEgo> 4chan/4chan is twice as loud as stereo.
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19:49:53 <prooftechnique> hppavilion[2]:I'm part of a what?
19:50:15 <hppavilion[2]> prooftechnique: The Nomic I'm doing over GitHub. I think you joined, didn't you?
19:50:21 <prooftechnique> Oh. Yes
19:50:26 <prooftechnique> I didn't know that's what it was called
20:16:44 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Rjhunjhunwala * New user account
20:29:36 <adu> hppavilion[2]: hi
20:29:40 <adu> hppavilion[2]: I was afk
20:29:49 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Ah
20:30:03 <adu> hppavilion[2]: but not I am AK
20:30:09 <adu> = at keyboard
20:30:15 <hppavilion[2]> OK
20:30:29 <adu> s/not/now/
20:30:51 <hppavilion[2]> adu: I'm attempting to write a compiler
20:31:09 <adu> hppavilion[2]: good news
20:31:32 <hppavilion[2]> adu: I've got a thing that outputs ASM given the manual AST for an arithmetic expression (only using signed 64-bit integers)
20:31:37 <hppavilion[2]> And I have a typechecker
20:31:49 <hppavilion[2]> Of course, it doesn't output the /right/ ASM yet, but oh well
20:31:54 <adu> lol
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20:38:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46608 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+1922) Created page with "= S.I.L.O.S = == Summary == S.I.L.O.S language of the future "All of the challenge of assembly all of the slowness of the jvm" A minimalist language which strives to be Turing..."
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20:45:51 <myname> the initial sentence got me hooked up
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21:21:36 <hppavilion[2]> hais523
21:21:45 <ais523> hi
21:21:50 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Did I ask you if you wanted to play lambda-nomic yet?
21:22:02 <adu> hppavilion[2]: so is it a lisp compiler?
21:22:09 <adu> hppavilion[2]: I don't think so
21:22:17 <hppavilion[2]> adu: No, it's a C-ish language
21:22:25 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Do you want to play lambda-nomic? Over GitHub?
21:22:39 <adu> hppavilion[2]: so did you write your own assembler too?
21:22:55 <hppavilion[2]> adu: I'm writing an assembler that will convert to another assembler and become x86
21:23:06 <adu> ah
21:23:15 <hppavilion[2]> I did so because I can't be bothered to learn x86 yet
21:23:21 <hppavilion[2]> Currently, the assembler is interpreted though
21:23:34 <adu> hppavilion[2]: so it's a VM
21:24:04 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Currently, yes, but compiling the intermediate ASM to x86 ASM should be relatively trivial
21:24:25 <hppavilion[2]> If I design it right, that is
21:24:33 <adu> hppavilion[2]: I should try to make an MMIX JIT
21:24:48 <hppavilion[2]> The problem is getting the language to go into the intermediate ASM in the first place
21:25:12 <hppavilion[2]> I'm trying to make it calculate (3+(-9))*(-2) = 12, but it keeps spitting out 18 and I can't figure out why
21:25:23 <hppavilion[2]> adu: So do you want to play that nomic?
21:25:31 <adu> hppavilion[2]: what's a nomic?
21:25:46 <ais523> `? nomic
21:25:47 <hppavilion[2]> adu: It's a game of Nomic.
21:25:48 <ais523> we need an entry for this
21:25:56 <HackEgo> nomic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:25:59 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Nomic is a game where you modify its own rules
21:26:00 <ais523> this is the second time I've seen that question asked this week
21:26:15 <hppavilion[2]> `le/rn Nomic is a game where you modify the rules of the game, at least at first
21:26:16 <HackEgo> No output.
21:26:17 <adu> nomic = ¯\(°[ZWSP])/¯
21:26:24 <hppavilion[2]> It's a joke, but it's actually accurate :)
21:26:47 <ais523> yes
21:26:50 <hppavilion[2]> (Not that funny of a joke, but a joke nonetheless)
21:26:57 <ais523> although few nomics remove the self-modification altogether
21:27:02 <adu> what kind of game is it?
21:27:05 <ais523> (and if they did, they would cease to be nomics and just be games)
21:27:06 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: For what purpose?
21:27:13 <ais523> nomic's kind-of game-complete
21:27:21 <ais523> in the same way that BF is Turing-complete
21:27:23 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Read rules.md at https://github.com/hppavilion1/github-lambdanomic
21:27:26 <ais523> given any game, a nomic can imitate that game
21:27:28 <hppavilion[2]> adu: That's one example of a nomic
21:27:44 <ais523> here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic
21:27:44 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: Any computable game
21:28:02 <coppro> no, any game
21:28:36 <hppavilion[2]> coppro: "This rule is only valid if the current program halts: ..."
21:29:08 <ais523> hppavilion[2]: you can enact uncomputable rules in a Nomic just fine, you might just have problems enforcing them
21:29:15 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: Fair enough
21:29:17 <ais523> nomics actually raise a lot of philosophical problems about how games work
21:29:23 <ais523> because I often see people break rules intentionally
21:29:50 <ais523> and the most common view is that such rules breaches actually didn't happen, although some nomics add other methods of handling them
21:29:55 <hppavilion[2]> ais523: Oooh, a nomic rule where breaking the rules can, in some scenarios, have some benefit
21:29:59 <ais523> however, if you have a rule, and consequences for breaking it, is it even a rule any more?
21:30:08 <adu> ais523: like putting all the money in the center of the board instead of the bank in Monopoly
21:30:39 <coppro> hppavilion[2]: so?
21:30:48 <coppro> hppavilion[2]: if you had a game with that as a rule, then the nomic can imitate that game
21:31:24 <shachaf> ais523: The HTML 5 specification defines what valid documents are and also what to do in the case of invalid documents.
21:31:43 <ais523> shachaf: that's because it's two specs
21:31:47 <ais523> one for clients and the other for servers
21:32:02 <ais523> the spec for clients includes a description of what to do if connected to a non-compliant server
21:33:54 * adu <3 scholar.google.com
21:37:56 <hppavilion[2]> adu: So nomic?
21:39:54 <adu> hppavilion[2]: what about it?
21:40:31 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Would you like to join my game of nomic over GitHub?
21:40:45 <adu> hppavilion[2]: oh, no thanks
21:40:50 <hppavilion[2]> OK
21:40:54 <adu> I have very little time as is
21:41:47 <adu> hppavilion[2]: I must admit it's utility as a microcosm of the U.S. legal system is interesting
21:42:22 <adu> "a remarkably complete microcosm of a functional legal system"
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21:45:19 <adu> hppavilion[2]: have you been playing?
21:45:48 <hppavilion[2]> adu: No, I've been trying to get enough players to start :P
21:46:03 <adu> hppavilion[2]: I see 3 in the players ifle
21:46:05 <hppavilion[2]> I need at least 4 and I have 3, though one didn't follow the repo and as such won't get the memo when we start
21:46:36 <hppavilion[2]> 4 because one person proposes a rule, and 3 is pretty much the bare minimum number of voters for a working game
21:47:08 <adu> hppavilion[2]: I'd like to see a game on a shelf in 5 years with a big sticker that says "started as a nomic"
21:47:36 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Would lol, but can't
21:47:57 <adu> hppavilion[2]: why can't lol?
21:48:13 <hppavilion[2]> adu: I don't lol
21:48:20 <adu> ah
21:48:26 <adu> regilious reasons?
21:48:37 <adu> hppavilion[2]: are you a grumpy person?
21:49:31 <hppavilion[2]> adu: No
21:49:47 <hppavilion[2]> adu: I just got overexposed to comedy and developed a tolerance to funny things :P
21:49:56 <hppavilion[2]> I still find them funny, but I don't reflexively laugh
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21:50:28 <adu> hppavilion[2]: oh no, 4chan has immunized you to humor
21:51:08 <hppavilion[2]> adu: Not 4chan
21:51:17 <adu> the internet?
21:51:32 <adu> cat pics?
21:51:48 <adu> The Daily Show?
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21:55:05 <adu> hppavilion[2]: I genuinly hope you get your humor back, it's a vital life skill
21:55:36 <hppavilion[2]> adu: I don't lack humor, I just don't laugh out loud at funny things
21:56:18 <adu> well, neither do I but I still say "lol" when the corner of my mouth starts to smile
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21:57:47 <adu> maybe we should make our own acronym for silent LOLs, like "Silent & Merry" or S&M for short
21:58:07 <myname> https://youtu.be/zMLE7a3faI4 i like the game
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22:11:39 <boily> `wisdom
22:11:45 <HackEgo> holy water/Holy water is water made by boiling the hell out of Spain.
22:14:35 -!- Alcest has joined.
22:16:55 <olsner> where boiling = applying boily
22:17:25 * boily thwacks olsner
22:17:32 <b_jonas> fungot, are you boiling?
22:17:33 <fungot> b_jonas: i'm using some cvs version of plt bindings for fuse, if anyone here actually read on lisp by graham as an intro to programming and problem solving. and a bad one
22:17:36 <boily> hellolsner. you scored 0.9 shachafs for that.
22:17:42 <olsner> :D
22:21:22 <hppavilion[2]> boily: What's shachaf's average shachaf score?
22:21:35 <hppavilion[2]> boily: Also, what's the Cosmic Background Shachafery's level?
22:22:06 <olsner> what's the banana equivalent shachaf dose?
22:23:25 <boily> b_jellonas, hppavellon[2].
22:23:35 <boily> hellochaf. are you bananas?
22:23:53 <shachaf> ask fungot
22:23:53 <fungot> shachaf: good gracious i leave for two or three words ( and trap to gc if it exceeds 8 when leaving the page, but it
22:24:00 <b_jonas> `? banana
22:24:03 <HackEgo> banana? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:24:18 <hppavilion[2]> `le/rn banana/nananananananananananananananana.
22:24:20 <olsner> `? pineapple
22:24:23 <HackEgo> Learned «banana»
22:24:24 <HackEgo> Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable.
22:24:44 <olsner> if not bananas, I think he might be ananas
22:25:06 <boily> `culprits wisdom/pineapple
22:25:09 <HackEgo> shachaf shachaf oerjan elliott boily olsner
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22:42:46 <nooga> :D
22:43:39 <nooga> boily: and here I am
22:44:19 <boily> nhellooga!
22:44:50 <boily> at last! one of my random @tells worked! ha ha ha. mwah ah ah ah ah. MWAAH AH AH AH AH!!!
22:44:58 <nooga> bhellooily
22:45:06 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
22:45:08 <shachaf> `? nooga
22:45:09 <HackEgo> no.
22:45:13 <nooga> wat
22:45:15 <shachaf> noooooooooooooga is the correct spelling
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22:45:48 <nooga> sure, I'll respond to noo+ga
22:47:20 <olsner> `? noooooooooooooga
22:47:21 <HackEgo> noooooooooooooga? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
22:48:30 <shachaf> nooga: Do you mean /no(o+ga)?/?
22:49:01 <Phantom_Hoover> ah christ
22:49:03 <nooga> uh
22:49:08 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga is different to nooodl then??
22:49:08 <nooga> yes, you got me
22:49:30 <boily> Phantom_Helloover. they are different entities.
22:49:45 <boily> hellynn!
22:49:48 <nooga> cough cough
22:50:29 <nooga> are there any new, interesting bf derivatives?
22:51:03 <boily> new, interesting, derivative: pick two.
22:52:01 <nooga> bf derivative, interesting: pick one?
22:52:59 <nooga> :>
22:53:22 <Phantom_Hoover> wait who's nooga then
22:53:24 <Phantom_Hoover> polish?
22:53:26 <Phantom_Hoover> friends with asie?
22:53:40 <nooga> oh, have you seen him lately?
22:54:23 <hppavilion[2]> nooga: He was on just a little bit ago
22:54:31 <shachaf> is nooga a kind of nougat?
22:54:34 <hppavilion[2]> In fact
22:54:40 <hppavilion[2]> asie: Someone's looking for you
22:55:21 <nooga> shachaf: nougat theme was raised 2 or 3 years ago IIRC
22:55:30 <hppavilion[2]> Ugh, can't get my compiler to compile
22:55:34 <hppavilion[2]> Because I'm an idiot
22:55:44 <hppavilion[2]> What I'm trying to do should be simple
22:56:01 <hppavilion[2]> I want -(-x) to compile into the proper ASM
22:56:06 <hppavilion[2]> Without optimization
22:56:12 <hppavilion[2]> So it should spit out x
22:56:17 <nooga> Phantom_Hoover: yup, Polish but I'm not friends with asie, never had a chance to meet him ;P
22:56:47 <Phantom_Hoover> yes the second is a nooodl-property, you have obviously become a hybrid individual in my mind
22:57:18 <hppavilion[2]> Phantom_Hoover: Sort of like \oren\ and oerjan for me in my first few weeks?
22:57:45 <Phantom_Hoover> well that's a really weird hybrid
22:57:56 <hppavilion[2]> Phantom_Hoover: o..r..n
22:58:07 <nooga> Phantom_Hoover: I've been idling here since 2005 I think
22:58:09 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan and oren both fit the pattern
22:58:16 <hppavilion[2]> o.*r.*n
22:58:17 <nooga> but then forgot to run irssi one day
22:59:52 <Phantom_Hoover> no i mean as the notional person
23:00:12 <hppavilion[2]> Ah
23:00:28 <hppavilion[2]> .* <-- most useless regex ever
23:00:41 <hppavilion[2]> "I want... well, just give me whatever. I don't give a shit"
23:02:32 <boily> oerjan and int-e are two resonance structures for the same molecule.
23:02:41 <nooga> "[^"]*" ;d
23:03:40 <shachaf> nooga: hellooga
23:04:11 <nooga> shachaf: forgot an n
23:04:19 <shachaf> Did I?
23:04:36 <shachaf> `culprits wisdom/nooga
23:04:44 <HackEgo> oerjan elliott nooga Bike FreeFull elliott Sgeo olsner oerjan FreeFull shachaf shachaf nitia
23:04:50 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: Do you know anything about compilation?
23:04:57 <shachaf> I know a few things.
23:05:27 <shachaf> (Whether any of them are about compilation is confidential.)
23:05:52 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: What should I compile -<x> (negation) to?
23:06:04 <hppavilion[2]> Allowing compilation to be recursive?
23:06:11 <hppavilion[2]> Assuming I have to use SUB or RSUB
23:07:32 <myname> NEG
23:07:44 <boily> mynamello. SYN SYN ENQ.
23:07:46 <nooga> hppavilion[2]: the easiest way is to write an interpreter and write a program that traces its execution and dumps the trace as the compiled form
23:08:07 <nooga> of interpreter's input
23:09:51 <hppavilion[2]> nooga: That sounds like a joke
23:09:59 <hppavilion[2]> nooga: So I'm just going to ignore it
23:10:07 <nooga> as you wish
23:10:08 <hppavilion[2]> myname: I'm using SUB and RSUB
23:10:12 <nooga> but then check out pypy
23:11:57 <shachaf> hppavilion[2]: What do you compile anything to?
23:13:58 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: ?
23:14:13 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: Ah, to ASM
23:14:17 <hppavilion[2]> A generic ASM
23:14:36 <hppavilion[2]> Inspired, of all places, by TIS-100 (without the parallellity)
23:15:06 <nooga> ew
23:15:34 <hppavilion[2]> nooga: What?
23:15:35 <myname> -x is always 0-x
23:15:37 <shachaf> I'm not sure what the question is.
23:15:42 <hppavilion[2]> myname: Yes...
23:15:48 * hppavilion[2] thinks
23:15:53 * hppavilion[2] is probably an idiot
23:16:01 <nooga> myname: how do you compile y-x ?
23:16:11 <myname> sub y,x
23:16:14 * hppavilion[2] may have left out crucial details that hppavilion[1] forgot were the core of the issue
23:16:24 <nooga> substitute y for 0 ?
23:16:24 <shachaf> yes
23:16:36 <hppavilion[2]> myname: SUB is unary and is basically "decrement the accumulator by n"
23:16:38 <nooga> tadaaa
23:17:29 <myname> mov akk, 0
23:17:31 <nooga> what if the argument is < 0 ?
23:17:32 <myname> sub x
23:18:25 <myname> (still 0-x)
23:18:27 <shachaf> Just disallow negation.
23:18:28 <hppavilion[2]> myname: And... hm... this seems 1000000 times easier, but every time I go back it becomes difficult
23:18:34 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: Solution!
23:18:51 <hppavilion[2]> Problem: P xed, and I do not want people to x
23:18:52 <myname> "go back"?
23:18:59 <nooga> myname: I was asking hppavilion[2]
23:19:01 <hppavilion[2]> Solution: THOU SHALT NOT x
23:19:20 <nooga> myname: about his architecture limitations ;d
23:19:34 <nooga> hppavilion[2]: what would SUB -10 do ?
23:19:37 <myname> nnnso?
23:19:41 <hppavilion[2]> I think I know my problem
23:19:47 <hppavilion[2]> nooga: add 10, most likely
23:19:56 <shachaf> Your problem is that you don't know the target architecture.
23:20:03 <nooga> then: LD 0; SUB x ?
23:20:05 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: That too
23:20:13 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: Which is odd, given that I made it
23:21:51 <hppavilion[2]> THERE we go
23:23:16 <nooga> next time design an OISC
23:23:28 <hppavilion[2]> nooga: No
23:23:49 <nooga> why, they're awesome, TTAs and stuff
23:25:11 -!- lambda-11235 has joined.
23:25:16 <nooga> I've once made a TTA computer from 74 chips on a huge breadboard
23:25:33 <nooga> and then lost the breadboard, which was the most expensive part of that precious rig
23:29:59 <hppavilion[2]> YES
23:30:00 <hppavilion[2]> IT WORKS
23:30:17 * hppavilion[2] happily claps to himself
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23:32:48 -!- adu has quit (Quit: adu).
23:32:54 -!- lambda-11235 has joined.
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23:34:10 <hppavilion[2]> myname: I got it working
23:34:12 <hppavilion[2]> :)
23:34:20 <hppavilion[2]> I just had to rewrite the compilation from scratch
23:34:43 -!- lambda-11235 has joined.
23:35:53 <hppavilion[2]> lambda-11235: Hi!
23:39:26 <olsner> I came up with a great use for ubsan to implement a weak version UB-C the other day - UB-C is a C dialect where you can only use undefined behavior, but the weaker version might only e.g. require that each statement invoke UB or that each function must UB before returning
23:39:43 <olsner> so if you implement the ubsan error callbacks so they just set a flag, you could have other instrumented code (profiling instrumentation perhaps?) check the flag to ensure that some UB has been triggered and abort if it hasn't
23:40:08 <boily> Nasal Demon C.
23:40:15 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:40:21 <olsner> yeah, I might call it Nasal Demon Tribute
23:44:27 <oerjan> someone's impression of american voters http://heltnormalt.no/truthfacts
23:46:09 * oerjan wonders who makes that comic anyway...
23:47:45 <oerjan> oh it's wulff & morgenthaler
23:50:27 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan: Translation?
23:50:41 <oerjan> all the comics on that site have norwegian text but often the translators slip up just enough to see that many of them are translated from danish.
23:51:09 <oerjan> hppavilion[2]: "american voters" "idiot" "idiot with a weapon"
23:51:19 <hppavilion[2]> Ah
23:51:49 <oerjan> hppavilion[2]: YOU ARE NOT HELPING THEIR CASE
23:52:01 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan: HOW SO
23:52:38 <oerjan> i thought i'd said enough that the meaning would be obvious.
23:52:41 <hppavilion[2]> Ah
23:53:32 <lambda-11235> hppavilion[2]: Hello.
23:56:15 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAA
23:56:27 <boily> he\\oren\. AAAAAAAAAAAAA?
23:56:53 <\oren\> I just typed in my work password to my home compuer eight-ten times before I realized.
23:57:06 <boily> ah, so your password is AAAAAAAAAAAAA?
23:57:13 <\oren\> I got really frustrated with my own stupidity
23:57:42 <\oren\> no, it's a digimon and some random number
23:57:58 <\oren\> much like a 14 year old's yahoo email
23:58:16 <oerjan> maybe the universe is running out of intelligence flux, it would explain so much
23:58:50 <boily> hellœrjan. you're saying intelligence flows, much like telluric currents?
23:59:18 <\oren\> I think I
23:59:28 <oerjan> boiclearly.
23:59:31 <\oren\> will add maybe 5 to 10 more mods
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