←2016-04-19 2016-04-20 2016-04-21→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:10 <hppavilion[1]> `? bdsmreclist
00:00:12 <HackEgo> ​* oerjan swats quintopia -----### \ <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: it records all the big hits
00:00:31 <Phantom_Hoover> bdsmreclist shouldn't be in wisdom/
00:00:42 <oerjan> i am approximately as confused as anyone else, although it's traditional
00:01:02 <Phantom_Hoover> `ls
00:01:03 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ (* \ 99 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ echo-p \ emoticons \ equations \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ foo \ good \ grph \ hw \ ibin \ ifconfig_out \ index.html \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls_dev \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ply-3.8.tar.gz \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ secret.txt \ shar
00:01:22 <hppavilion[1]> If p -> q is p^q in fuzzy logic
00:01:22 <oerjan> `head index.html
00:01:24 <HackEgo> ​<!doctype html><html itemscope="" itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage" lang="en-CA"><head><meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type"><meta content="/images/branding/googleg/1x/googleg_standard_color_128dp.png" itemprop="image"><title>Google</title><script>(function(){window.google={kEI:'WX_bVuizFqqOjwSmo5r4DA',kEXPI:'3700
00:01:34 <oerjan> `rm index.html
00:01:39 <HackEgo> No output.
00:01:43 <hppavilion[1]> Whoops, q^p
00:01:56 <oerjan> `cat ifconfig_out
00:01:58 <HackEgo> lo Link encap:Local Loopback \ inet addr: Mask: \ inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host \ UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:65536 Metric:1 \ RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 \ TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 \ collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 \
00:02:05 <oerjan> `rm ifconfig_out
00:02:08 <hppavilion[1]> Then what're log_q(p) and the qth root of p?
00:02:10 <HackEgo> No output.
00:02:35 <oerjan> `cat echo-p
00:02:36 <HackEgo> echo "$1"; mkdir -p "$(dirname "$1")" 2>/dev/null
00:02:53 <oerjan> `culprits echo-p
00:02:58 <oerjan> `url echo-p
00:03:08 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/echo-p
00:03:12 <oerjan> has culprits become extremely slow recently
00:03:13 <HackEgo> oerjan
00:03:34 <shachaf> oerjan: Didn't all of HackEgo become extremely slow recently?
00:03:48 <oerjan> shachaf: well compared to the other commands
00:03:51 <oerjan> `rm echo-p
00:03:55 <HackEgo> No output.
00:03:58 <oerjan> apparently it was my mistake there
00:04:42 <oerjan> `ls
00:04:45 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ (* \ 99 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ equations \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ foo \ good \ grph \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls_dev \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ply-3.8.tar.gz \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ secret.txt \ share \ src \ testpylib \ things_with_hg_
00:05:11 <oerjan> `` ls -l etc
00:05:13 <HackEgo> total 4 \ drwxr-xr-x 2 5000 0 4096 Dec 9 04:12 luarocks
00:05:34 <oerjan> `` ls -l grph
00:05:36 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 10146 Jan 23 21:00 grph
00:05:41 <oerjan> `cat grph
00:05:41 <HackEgo> ​ELF............>..... @.....@.......h..........@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@.....À.......À............................@......@............................................@.......@.....Ü......Ü........ ............à......à`.....à`.....H......`........ ...........ø......ø`.....ø`.....à.......à................
00:05:46 <oerjan> `rm grph
00:05:50 <HackEgo> No output.
00:06:13 <shachaf> my terminal is fatally injured tdnh
00:06:33 <oerjan> your terminal needed to be put down anyway
00:07:12 <oerjan> `file testpylib
00:07:14 <HackEgo> testpylib: Python script, ASCII text executable
00:07:26 <oerjan> `rm testpylib
00:07:29 <HackEgo> No output.
00:07:35 <Phantom_Hoover> `? ngevd
00:07:37 <HackEgo> Gcõ$EãÑl÷B \ <ör½Â'¹!’®Ñ3€úŸ %vÚCæ‹h-n”Ã֕ˆòòC‹R^¢ÍgšÂkWûþhº6üÈ:»ßûP¿IòCûL¦DŠptØ6ó;:®e’¹½Kr#"c;81ýJ˜í¨#PŒ{ñõ}’’^ãðÔͯŽp.K›Ëó÷ìTe8óz–돿-Іœi€^ø‘¤œ·âfm$_æ@9ÿm_0;›sl£˜º{ç”]ø÷¾b]”uŽe5þò;_ºÅ²H˜ÈQ³ýÑ´HÆþÃPš;Ƽ¬ß \ Î÷ã©6±(o¬U9¨…:¢–¯gÞ#íÁ·›mÎÀgð5íX.‘rØ@dIq½Z<ò.ÆÜsºYzÀLúXÜÛEõYÛÐ%DµCŸèóe.UÀ8n„ÜWxAˆ‘–Ím‰`NtN¿5s•³Ô¿d¿3i
00:07:41 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
00:07:53 <oerjan> rule #5: binaries at HackEgo toplevel _will_ be eviscerated.
00:08:02 <shachaf> is dumping all this junk into the channel strictly necessary
00:08:12 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, wait why
00:08:43 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: because if they're useful, they should be moved to bin/
00:08:50 <oerjan> they're not even in path there
00:09:20 <oerjan> well executables, i guess i mean
00:09:51 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
00:10:12 <shachaf> `bienvenido Marcela_Gandara
00:10:15 <HackEgo> Marcela_Gandara: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
00:10:28 <oerjan> also, i suspect we might be approaching the point where even directories at toplevel need some pruning * looks at hppavilion[1]
00:11:29 * hppavilion[1] did nothing
00:11:33 * hppavilion[1] is innocent
00:11:48 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i'm sure you created at least some of them. evil for example
00:12:05 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Um, evil was tswett IIRC
00:12:09 <oerjan> oh.
00:12:12 <oerjan> OKAY THEN
00:12:15 <hppavilion[1]> `morallyneutral
00:12:16 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: morallyneutral: not found
00:12:17 <shachaf> `mkx !\.´//echo 'emergency signal toggled'
00:12:20 <HackEgo> ​!\.´
00:12:25 <oerjan> wat
00:12:27 <shachaf> `./!\.´
00:12:28 <HackEgo> emergency signal toggled
00:12:35 <oerjan> fancy
00:12:37 <shachaf> it has to be top-level, sorry
00:12:59 <shachaf> oppressoerjan
00:14:46 <oerjan> WHATEVER
00:14:58 * oerjan will prune more some other time
00:15:41 <shachaf> `? oerjan
00:15:43 <HackEgo> Your infamous mysterious evil cackling overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also an antediluvian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl. He can never remember the word "amortized" so he put it here for convenience. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker.
00:15:59 <olsner> good to know
00:16:02 <gamemanj> ...nooo, no someone who dislikes Roald Dahl! That's impossible!
00:16:17 <gamemanj> *not
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00:16:22 <shachaf> `` sed -i 's/evil/evil oppressive/' wisdom/oerjan
00:17:03 <olsner> hmm, my work desk points antizimbabwards
00:17:33 <oerjan> `? olsner
00:17:35 <HackEgo> olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines.
00:17:49 <olsner> `? zimbabwe
00:17:52 <HackEgo> olsner's desk points zimbabwards. it is highly dependent on tswett's michiganic orientation.
00:17:56 <oerjan> ah
00:18:07 <olsner> (that's the desk at home)
00:18:27 <oerjan> gamemanj: don't worry it's all shachaf's lies. although iiuc roald dahl _was_ a bit of a jerk...
00:18:58 <shachaf> shachaf's truths hth
00:19:03 <gamemanj> Everything can be interpreted from multiple points of view.
00:19:12 <gamemanj> Imply from that statement what you will.
00:19:21 <shachaf> In 2008, The Times placed Dahl 16th on its list of "The 50 greatest British writers since 1945".[5]
00:19:26 <gamemanj> Anyway, back to searching Veronica-II for "zzo38"...
00:19:33 <shachaf> seems that he was great
00:20:21 <shachaf> oerjan: also i learned to read from charlie and the chocolate so how bad could he be
00:20:21 <oerjan> this is no contradiction to his also being a jerk, of course.
00:20:33 <shachaf> this book: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/5/56/%D7%A6%27%D7%90%D7%A8%D7%9C%D7%99_%D7%95%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%93%D7%94.jpg
00:20:57 <oerjan> i have heard about charlie and the chocolate factory.
00:21:41 <oerjan> shachaf: is that hebrew with all the vowel marks?
00:22:08 <shachaf> yes
00:23:12 <oerjan> <gamemanj> Imply from that statement what you will. <-- clearly you are an evil liberal hth
00:23:45 <gamemanj> Mwuhahaha! No, I am not an evil liberal... I am the mad scientist, Insert Name Here!
00:24:06 <oerjan> `? gamemanj
00:24:07 <HackEgo> gamemanj is undocumented.
00:24:11 <gamemanj> ...
00:24:15 <shachaf> oh, perhaps it was actually this book: http://simania.co.il/bookimages/covers1/18347.jpg
00:24:16 <gamemanj> `culprits gamemanj
00:24:21 <HackEgo> No output.
00:24:28 -!- JX7P has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:24:30 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHA*
00:24:31 <gamemanj> what on earth
00:24:50 <oerjan> hint: that's not the full filename
00:24:56 <gamemanj> ...oh, of COURSE
00:25:01 <gamemanj> `ls wisdom/*gamemanj*
00:25:02 <HackEgo> ls: cannot access wisdom/*gamemanj*: No such file or directory
00:25:10 <gamemanj> the...
00:25:16 <gamemanj> `` ls wisdom/*gamemanj*
00:25:18 <HackEgo> wisdom/gamemanj
00:25:26 <gamemanj> `` culprits wisdom/*gamemanj*
00:25:36 <HackEgo> oerjan
00:25:43 <gamemanj> OERJAAAAAANNN
00:26:03 <oerjan> hi
00:26:25 <oerjan> it's ok i was updating it anyway
00:27:33 <oerjan> `learn gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here.
00:27:37 <HackEgo> Relearned 'gamemanj': gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here.
00:27:45 <gamemanj> I'm tempted to `` echo 'echo $1 >> BLAH ; echo "Your message has been stored." >> unwitting_victim' >> post_msg ; ln -s wisdom/*oerjan* unwitting_victim
00:28:07 <gamemanj> ...wait, I forgot to replace the "BLAH" with wisdom/*oerjan*
00:28:18 <gamemanj> serves me right for leaving placeholders during testing
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00:28:45 <oerjan> we don't use >> that way any more. we have `learn_append for proper formatting.
00:29:01 <gamemanj> I also seem to have gotten confused
00:29:05 <oerjan> (i guess that uses >> internally)
00:29:15 -!- IRIXUser has joined.
00:29:33 <oerjan> i'm not sure you can >> to more than one file
00:29:40 -!- IRIXUser has changed nick to Guest70081.
00:29:58 <gamemanj> oerjan: I got confused. Instead of replacing the BLAH I appended the >>...
00:30:17 * gamemanj wonders how on earth he could get that confused over a line of shell script.
00:30:49 <oerjan> "easily" hth
00:31:04 <gamemanj> Anyway, the CORRECTED line: `` echo 'echo $1 >> unwitting_victim ; echo "Your message has been stored."' >> post_msg ; ln -s wisdom/*oerjan* unwitting_victim
00:31:24 <gamemanj> then all I have to do is advocate use of post_msg as a rantbox
00:31:27 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:31:46 <gamemanj> MWUAHAHAHAH... except ofc I just told you my whole plan, so it won't work.
00:31:48 <oerjan> that's also not proper. and we have `mkx for creating executables more conveniently hth
00:32:13 <oerjan> it's not like it works anyway, HackEgo has undo features.
00:33:07 <oerjan> besides, we have `complain already
00:33:24 <oerjan> `complain Newbies get confused by everything HackEgo.
00:33:29 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:34:01 <oerjan> `complain Also, Gregor is never here to fix his bots.
00:34:06 <HackEgo> Complaint filed. Thank you.
00:34:25 <gamemanj> Ok, new plan. Since presumably it's cheating to change my own wisdom file, I need to find a way to manipulate someone into doing it for me.
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00:39:03 -!- Guest70081 has changed nick to JX7P.
00:40:19 <oerjan> <gamemanj> ...I see the amount of cities is expanding? <-- oh right...
00:40:28 -!- tromp has joined.
00:40:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from New York (not New Amsterdam).
00:40:54 <\oren\> I now have a Elektronika Mk-61 calculator
00:41:01 <oerjan> forgot to change it yesterday
00:42:57 <oerjan> <gamemanj> The point being that it won <-- the rock of victory
00:43:32 <\oren\> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elektronika_MK-61
00:43:50 <\oren\> it's programmable and RPN
00:44:45 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:45:21 <\oren\> and comes with a sheet showing its circuit layout (which I have never seen any other electronic device do). Hence, it's technically opensource
00:47:10 <gamemanj> coming with source != opensource
00:47:32 <\oren\> i thought that was the difference between free and open source
00:48:29 <gamemanj> Ok, I have no idea anymore. The kaledoscope of licenses are an insanity beyond insanities, a legitimate reason for the world to end via everybody being turned into orange goo, or for a time machine arms race to take everything out.
00:49:25 <\oren\> I see. Well I don't know if there is a copyright on this, given it was made in the Soviet Union
00:49:39 <\oren\> did the Soviet Union have copyright laws?
00:50:26 <zzo38> If the source codes are available then it is called "shared source", and "open source" is a subset of that.
00:50:57 <gamemanj> note: there is a sinister difference between the two...
00:51:49 <zzo38> Yes
00:52:03 <gamemanj> specifically, when a company is going around acting like it's so good for introducing "shared source", when having it is a great way to do things like have a reason to sue them if they develop competing products. I don't think anyone's actually done that, but feel free to correct me.
00:52:27 <\oren\> yay, i successfully programmed the Tsiolkovsky Rocket Equation into this!
00:52:32 <gamemanj> ...
00:52:36 <gamemanj> the what?
00:52:48 * gamemanj hides behind a flame shield
00:53:39 <\oren\> I_sp * 9.8 * ln (M_0 / M_f) = Δ_v
00:53:44 <\oren\> I_sp * 9.8 * ln (M_0 / M_f) = Δv
00:54:07 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:54:41 <gamemanj> "As you can see, \oren\ has taken the 'SCIENCE!' solution to Kerbal Space Program mission planning."
00:55:52 <\oren\> I was previously using a stupid scientific calculator, but this is so much more uh...
00:56:03 <\oren\> MUHUHUHAHAHAHAH
00:56:47 <\oren\> now I'll launch missiles to blow up the Badlands
00:57:13 * gamemanj gives \oren\ a fizzy drink, of a very specific brand. Specifically for mad scientists...
00:59:46 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
01:00:57 <oerjan> \oren\> I see. Well I don't know if there is a copyright on this, given it was made in the Soviet Union <-- tetris was too, and is copyrighted.
01:01:45 * gamemanj realizes he should probably go to bed, it's 1:01 AM
01:03:40 -!- gamemanj has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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01:33:58 <oerjan> bonsoily
01:35:21 <shachaf> bonsoirjan
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01:39:31 <boily> bonsœirjan, bonshachafoir.
01:39:43 <boily> @massages-loud
01:39:44 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1h 48m 4s ago: <boily> @tell gamemanj also, please be assured that *everything* can spontaneously combust if sufficiently unwatched hth <-- sounds like a theory for how the big bang happened
01:39:56 <boily> oerjan: thausible.
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01:43:39 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: *mind blown*
01:44:06 <hppavilion[1]> I suppose the universe was in the ultimate state of unobservation before the Big Bang, given that quantum physics hadn't started yet
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01:50:40 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: not necessarily. it could also apply if there was a previous universe that had expanded to extreme emptiness and heat death
01:51:10 <oerjan> this is at least similar to an actual proposed theory, i think
01:53:57 <hppavilion[1]> Today, I am cited.
01:54:04 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:54:14 <shachaf> why, what's happening tomorrow?
01:55:07 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Cited as in citation
01:55:22 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: hppavilion **[1]**
01:55:42 <shachaf> now change your nick to something without the brackets
01:55:42 <oerjan> ...
01:55:58 <shachaf> you gotta do it for the pun
01:56:37 <boily> oerjan: can I mapole shachaf?
01:56:47 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: IIRC, wikicitations have brackets
01:56:53 <shachaf> yes
01:57:00 <shachaf> so now take the brackets off your nick
01:57:42 <shachaf> well, i have to go
01:57:47 <shachaf> boily can finish the pun
01:58:58 <oerjan> boily: i was ...ing hppavilion[1] not shachaf
01:59:17 <boily> yes, but I'm used to mapoling shachaf by default :D
02:00:05 <hppavilion[1]> I... don't see the pun
02:00:21 <oerjan> neither do i
02:00:31 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: What's the stupidest thing that a calculator could do?
02:00:31 <boily> no puns seen here.
02:00:47 <hppavilion[1]> Alternatively, is there some system that one could make a calculator based on /other/ than basic arithmetic?
02:01:14 <oerjan> lambda calculus
02:01:23 <boily> hppavilion[1]: underload has unbasic arithmetic hth
02:01:26 <oerjan> that would be pretty awkward
02:01:41 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oooh :)
02:01:53 <coppro> INTERCAL?
02:01:58 <hppavilion[1]> boily: How so?
02:02:09 <hppavilion[1]> coppro: Yes, $ will probably be included
02:02:59 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Is it string arithmetic?
02:03:12 <oerjan> boily: btw i am amazed that you actually found a pho thread to comment in
02:03:21 <oerjan> montreal must be a very culinary place
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02:04:04 <boily> oerjan: huh? which one?
02:04:17 <oerjan> Best Pho in Montreal
02:04:19 <boily> whenever there's a phodiscussion, I can't resist pushing my agenda.
02:04:28 <boily> not the first thread I phoed in.
02:04:32 <oerjan> wait, are you saying it's _frequent_
02:04:40 <oerjan> `? montreal
02:04:42 <boily> it happens a few times per year, yes.
02:04:51 <HackEgo> montreal? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:05:13 <oerjan> `learn Montreal is a city in Canada that somehow is obsessed with Vietnamese cuisine.
02:05:19 <HackEgo> Learned 'montreal': Montreal is a city in Canada that somehow is obsessed with Vietnamese cuisine.
02:05:31 <boily> hppavilion[1]: it is closer to Peano arithmetic. it is still arithmetic.
02:05:41 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Oh :/
02:05:46 <hppavilion[1]> boily: So uber-basic arithmetic
02:05:58 <hppavilion[1]> Perhaps a calculator based on digraphs?
02:06:10 <boily> why digraphs?
02:06:22 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: Oh, I thought you were making the pun.
02:06:43 <shachaf> If you changed your nick you would see it.
02:07:14 <shachaf> oerjan: pho thread?
02:07:23 <oerjan> shachaf: /r/montreal
02:07:44 <shachaf> oerjan: why do you participate in that
02:08:01 <oerjan> i don't, i have boily in the friends list
02:08:11 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Digraphs are the datagod
02:08:41 <shachaf> oerjan: did you know Montreal and Hanoi are sister cities
02:08:49 <oerjan> shachaf: no
02:08:57 <shachaf> perhaps it's obsessed with its Vietnamese cousin hth
02:09:19 <shachaf> anyway hppavilion[1] is sticking with the same nick
02:09:59 <shachaf> it's a little scow
02:10:02 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Like, Hanoi as in Tower?
02:10:08 <shachaf> or at least surprising
02:10:16 <shachaf> i'd expect hppavilion[1] to be excited
02:10:26 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: By what?
02:10:36 <shachaf> boily can explain hth
02:10:38 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: amazingly the tower is named for a real city hth
02:10:50 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well yeah
02:11:31 <shachaf> what, no swat?
02:11:38 <shachaf> what happened to the long mapole of the law?
02:12:02 <oerjan> boily: do you also think shachaf's puns are a bit thin today
02:12:23 <shachaf> look i was busy acknowledging hppavilion[1]'s pun
02:12:32 <shachaf> when it turned out not to exist
02:12:53 <oerjan> shachaf: i guess it was expunged hth
02:13:37 <boily> oerjan: I can't think, I'm in a café.
02:13:55 <oerjan> boily: i recognize the problem
02:15:57 * hppavilion[1] posits how weird it is that on IRC, everyone is just a single word on a screen
02:17:01 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Is there something higher than λ-calculus?
02:17:08 <hppavilion[1]> Here's something I'm considering
02:17:22 <hppavilion[1]> A -> B == B^A (even in fuzzy logic)
02:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> A => B == B^^A
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02:18:21 <oerjan> no hth
02:18:41 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ?
02:18:46 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
02:18:46 <oerjan> (probably. something categorical maybe?)
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02:36:15 <hppavilion[1]> Huh
02:36:51 <hppavilion[1]> p => q has an identical truth table to p -> q when p, q = {0, 1}
02:37:59 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, it appears I did something wrong
02:38:37 <hppavilion[1]> http://pastebin.com/T2xbaPvc
02:38:42 <hppavilion[1]> I *think* that's right
02:39:15 <boily> time to quit the unthinkcafé and go home to unthinksleep...
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02:41:40 <hppavilion[1]> HERE it is http://pastebin.com/82jDaeCR
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02:51:44 <hppavilion[1]> (p ⇒ r) -> (q ⇒ r), I think
02:51:55 <hppavilion[1]> WHoops
02:52:02 <hppavilion[1]> That wasn't a complete expression
02:52:11 <hppavilion[1]> (p → q) ⇒ r == (p ⇒ r) → (q ⇒ r)
03:00:59 <hppavilion[1]> The best logical operation is 0001, not because it's &, but because a truth table ordered by binary forms a CNWY glider
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03:09:13 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
03:09:19 <hppavilion[1]> I seem to have miscalculated the truth table
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03:11:04 <hppavilion[1]> Recalculation didn't work either
03:11:10 <hppavilion[1]> I think the approximation I'm using is bad
03:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> Shut up, brain.
03:18:30 <pikhq> I advise you use the reals between 0 and 1 inclusive for your logic operations, instead.
03:18:44 <pikhq> This gives you uncountably many, and is thus superior to traditional binary logic.
03:18:58 <oerjan> well he _was_ mentioning fuzzy before.
03:19:30 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: oh btw
03:19:46 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: That's what I figured
03:20:03 <oerjan> not x = x `nor` x. x `or` y = not (x `nor` y). x -> y = not x `or` y. hth.
03:20:22 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes, I figured it out
03:20:44 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: you might want to look up karnaugh diagrams
03:21:13 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: But for it to work for the [0:1] reals, it first must first work for the booleans
03:21:53 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: And I'm pretty sure p => (q -> r) is supposed to be equivalent to (p => q) -> (p => r), for some reason
03:22:14 <hppavilion[1]> Though it may be (p -> q) => r that satisfies something like that, NTITAI
03:33:17 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Is there any binary connective that distributes over ->?
03:40:21 <oerjan> @check \p q r -> ((p::Bool)<= ((q::Bool)<=(r::Bool))) == ((p<=q)<=(p<=r))
03:40:23 <lambdabot> +++ OK, passed 100 tests.
03:41:27 * oerjan isn't sure what hppavilion[1] means by => and -> that makes them different
03:43:23 <shachaf> oerjan: see <oerjan> no hth
03:48:07 <oerjan> oh something tetrationlike
03:48:21 * oerjan still no idea what => really is, then
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04:20:26 <zzo38> Is it possible to make it in vim so that you can make [ to remember a numeric prefix if there is one and to begin recording a macro, and then ] ends that recording and if there is a remembered numeric prefix to execute it one less than that many times and then the macro is also saved so that you can execute it later
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04:26:17 <zzo38> Also is there a command in vim to move the cursor to the end of the previous Visual area?
04:37:55 <zzo38> How to enable virtual editing in vreplace mode?
04:39:59 <zzo38> I figured out how to jump the visual selected area by `< and `> commands
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04:44:05 <Kaynato> is oerjan available?
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04:56:47 <picobit> transport-triggered architectures are really interesting.
04:59:37 <zzo38> I have once designed one (including the schematics) before I knew what it was called.
04:59:56 <picobit> same.
05:00:55 <picobit> it's an interesting piece of machinery but I have to wonder if it's actually viable in real-world scenarios.
05:01:20 <picobit> that's a lot of cycles spent on moving things around.
05:01:36 <zzo38> I wouldn't know. Possibly a microcode might use such design?
05:02:22 <picobit> mm. doubt it.
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05:05:07 <zzo38> I don't really know. It is just what I thought of when I tried to design a CPU including schematics
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05:18:28 <\oren\> Wait, is this Error or ЕГГОГ (EGGOG)
05:19:19 <zzo38> Is what?
05:20:27 <\oren\> I divided by zero on my russian calculator and got a value that looks like
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05:21:02 <\oren\> _ _ _ _ _
05:21:20 <\oren\> | | | | ||
05:21:39 <\oren\> -
05:21:54 <\oren\> | | | | ||
05:22:16 <\oren\> - -
05:22:26 <pikhq> Maybe it's ErrOr?
05:22:41 <zzo38> I don't know. Do you know any Russian words?
05:22:57 <\oren\> that's what I think, but i think it's funnier to read it as eggog
05:23:44 <\oren\> hmm, funny or accurate...
05:24:42 <\oren\> actually with the shapes of these 7seg displays it looks more like
05:25:06 <\oren\> EʳʳOʳ
05:25:30 <\oren\> because the left lower vertical segment is very short
05:32:50 <picobit> that.. looks like error.
05:39:35 <\oren\> discovery: 10^100=EʳʳOʳ. squared is 3ʳʳOʳ or ZGGOG!
05:43:55 <\oren\> this has... implications
05:47:31 <\oren\> logarithm base 10 of ZGGOG is 799
05:48:24 <\oren\> natural logarithm of ZGGOG is 1842
05:49:29 <zzo38> It is strange
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06:03:43 <hppavilion[1]> @tell oerjan →:^::⇒:↑
06:03:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
06:04:39 <hppavilion[1]> @tell oerjan Oh, you figured that out. Well I'm still trying to deduce its exact behavior
06:04:39 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
06:06:18 <hppavilion[1]> @binop
06:06:18 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
06:06:20 <hppavilion[1]> @list
06:06:20 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
06:06:25 <hppavilion[1]> @list Prelude
06:06:26 <lambdabot> No module "Prelude" loaded
06:07:06 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn Bool -> String
06:07:06 <lambdabot> Error: Undefined type String
06:07:12 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn Bool -> [Char]
06:07:12 <lambdabot> Error: Undefined type []
06:07:19 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn Bool -> Int
06:07:19 <lambdabot> Error: Undefined type Int
06:07:26 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn Bool -> Bool
06:07:26 <lambdabot> f a = a
06:07:45 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn types
06:07:45 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
06:07:58 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn list
06:07:58 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
06:08:01 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn []
06:08:01 <lambdabot> Cannot parse command
06:08:08 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn [Bool]
06:08:09 <lambdabot> Error: Undefined type []
06:08:12 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn Bool
06:08:13 <lambdabot> f = False
06:08:35 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn Bool -> Bool -> Bool
06:08:35 <lambdabot> f a b =
06:08:35 <lambdabot> case a of
06:08:35 <lambdabot> False -> b
06:08:35 <lambdabot> True -> False
06:08:41 <hppavilion[1]> Huh?
06:08:47 <hppavilion[1]> Moving to PM
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06:21:14 <int-e> @djinn Bool -> a -> a -> a
06:21:14 <lambdabot> f a b c =
06:21:14 <lambdabot> case a of
06:21:14 <lambdabot> False -> c
06:21:14 <lambdabot> True -> b
06:21:44 <int-e> I suspect that's the showcase for djinn's aversion against constant functions
06:21:58 <int-e> s/against/to/
06:25:01 <hppavilion[1]> Whoo!
06:25:07 <hppavilion[1]> I made something useful!
06:25:30 <hppavilion[1]> It's probably already defined though! But I couldn't find it
06:25:38 <hppavilion[1]> @run binBoolOp 1 False True
06:25:40 <lambdabot> False
06:25:41 <hppavilion[1]> @run binBoolOp 1 False False
06:25:43 <lambdabot> False
06:25:47 <hppavilion[1]> @run binBoolOp 1 True False
06:25:48 <lambdabot> False
06:25:52 <hppavilion[1]> @run binBoolOp 1 True True
06:25:54 <lambdabot> True
06:25:57 <hppavilion[1]> See? :)
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06:26:40 <hppavilion[1]> It takes a truth table (just the last column, in 00/01/10/11 notation) and returns a binary boolean function that implements that operation
06:26:49 <hppavilion[1]> Now to enact phase 2
06:26:52 <hppavilion[1]> @help check
06:26:52 <lambdabot> check <expr>
06:26:52 <lambdabot> You have QuickCheck and 3 seconds. Prove something.
06:28:03 <hppavilion[1]> @run map binBoolOp [1..15]
06:28:05 <lambdabot> [<Bool -> Bool -> Bool>,<Bool -> Bool -> Bool>,<Bool -> Bool -> Bool>,<Bool ...
06:29:16 <hppavilion[1]> @run map apply (zip (map binBoolOp [1..15]) repeat (True, False))
06:29:17 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘apply’
06:30:21 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn (a -> b -> c) -> [(a, b)] -> [c]
06:30:21 <lambdabot> Error: Undefined type []
06:30:24 <hppavilion[1]> Crap
06:31:40 <hppavilion[1]> @run map (\x -> (fst x) (fst (snd x) (snd (snd x)))) (zip (map binBoolOp [1..15]) repeat (True, False))
06:31:41 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘(Bool, Bool)
06:31:41 <lambdabot> -> [(t0 -> b, (b0 -> t0, b0))]’
06:31:41 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘[(Bool -> Bool -> Bool, b1)]’
06:31:57 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
06:32:07 <hppavilion[1]> @t (\x -> (fst x) (fst (snd x) (snd (snd x))))
06:32:07 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: tell thank you thanks thesaurus thx tic-tac-toe ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete type v @ ? .
06:32:11 <hppavilion[1]> @type (\x -> (fst x) (fst (snd x) (snd (snd x))))
06:32:12 <lambdabot> (t -> r, (b -> t, b)) -> r
06:32:28 <hppavilion[1]> @run map (\x -> (fst x) (fst (snd x)) (snd (snd x)))) (zip (map binBoolOp [1..15]) repeat (True, False))
06:32:30 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:48: parse error on input ‘)’
06:32:35 <hppavilion[1]> @run map (\x -> (fst x) (fst (snd x)) (snd (snd x))) (zip (map binBoolOp [1..15]) repeat (True, False))
06:32:36 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type ‘(Bool, Bool)
06:32:36 <lambdabot> -> [(a0 -> b0 -> b, (a0, b0))]’
06:32:36 <lambdabot> with actual type ‘[(Bool -> Bool -> Bool, b1)]’
06:32:52 <hppavilion[1]> Moving to PM
06:32:55 <zzo38> I like the <() feature of the shell and find it to be useful with the farbfeld utilities I am writing.
06:35:34 <zzo38> Since some of them require multiple inputs.
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06:55:59 <hppavilion[1]> I give up for tonight
06:56:26 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn a -> (a -> b)
06:56:26 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
06:56:36 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn a -> b -> a
06:56:36 <lambdabot> f a _ = a
06:56:40 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn a -> b -> b
06:56:40 <lambdabot> f _ a = a
06:56:46 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn a -> b -> (a -> b)
06:56:46 <lambdabot> f _ a _ = a
06:56:56 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn (a -> b) -> a -> b
06:56:57 <lambdabot> f a = a
06:57:17 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn (a -> b) -> a -> b
06:57:17 <lambdabot> f a = a
06:57:19 <hppavilion[1]> Eh?
06:57:48 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
06:57:58 <hppavilion[1]> @djinn ((a -> b) -> a) -> b
06:57:59 <lambdabot> -- f cannot be realized.
06:58:02 <hppavilion[1]> OK...
07:02:09 <mtve> \oren\: mk-61/b3-34 cpu rom (ik13 series) was not published anywhere, until recently at 2011 chips were photoscanned and rev-engineered, it was a major breakthru, see https://github.com/BigEd/emu145/blob/master/pmkemu/mcommands.h
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07:29:36 <myname> hppavilion[1]: do you even haskell?
07:29:48 * hppavilion[1] does not even haskell
07:29:51 * hppavilion[1] is sad
07:30:37 <myname> you should start
07:31:05 <hppavilion[1]> There exists a natural number s such that for every natural number n, s = n2.
07:31:09 <hppavilion[1]> -- Wikipedia
07:31:12 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I have tried
07:31:20 <hppavilion[1]> myname: But I always forget that I'm learning to haskell
07:31:29 <myname> the wikibook is awesome
07:31:31 <hppavilion[1]> (that 2 is ^)
07:31:38 <b_jonas> mk-61/b3-34 cpu? what's that?
07:31:38 <hppavilion[1]> myname: So is LYAH
07:31:44 <myname> well, do a project
07:31:48 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: It's a calculator
07:31:51 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I will
07:31:58 <hppavilion[1]> Let me launch Leksah
07:32:27 <myname> currently, i am doing weird stuff with languages in haskell
07:32:29 <hppavilion[1]> (I prefer to build all my programs from the command line rather than in the IDE for some reason)
07:32:42 <myname> i use vim
07:33:01 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yes, I would too if I wasn't stuck on a shitty win10 device
07:33:16 <b_jonas> ah, this one => http://www.rskey.org/CMS/index.php/7?manufacturer=Elektronika&model=MK-61
07:33:23 <hppavilion[1]> I tried installing Ubuntu, but it wouldn't boot from USB
07:33:54 <hppavilion[1]> Now I need to think of a project...
07:34:19 <hppavilion[1]> Concatenative OO?
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07:39:36 <myname> hppavilion[1]: do you have a shitty old mainboard that boots usb as big floppy instead of a small hdd?
07:39:56 <hppavilion[1]> myname: It's a relatively new laptop; purchased last summer
07:40:05 <myname> weird
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07:44:43 <zzo38> If it won't boot from USB then see if it can be configured to boot from a DVD and see if you have a DVD to install Ubuntu.
07:45:16 <myname> i wouldn't buy a laptop with a dvd drive
07:45:34 <myname> at worst, i would use wuby
07:45:37 <mtve> b_jonas: yes
07:45:56 <myname> if this is still a thing, that is
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09:16:16 <zzo38> Is there the possibility to send a file with git without having to clone the entire repository that you want to send to, and only the file that you want to modify instead?
09:30:47 <b_jonas> zzo38: there are some experimental development for partial checkouts with git, but nothing working well yet I think
09:31:07 <b_jonas> but you'd have to ask ais to be sure, I don't understand much about git
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12:00:11 <boily> fungot: blep.
12:00:11 <fungot> boily: but i don't know, what do you mean? yes. reasoning? definately not because if it's documentation
12:00:29 <boily> fungot: a blep is a cat with their tongue out hth
12:00:29 <fungot> boily: reloaded the python plugin. it is actually
12:00:35 <boily> fungot: not a python, a cat.
12:00:36 <fungot> boily: that was spawned by my thinking about how to do it?
12:00:54 <boily> fungot: if you spawn pythons for more than four hours, consult your physician.
12:00:54 <fungot> boily: hold on,
12:01:12 * boily holds on...
12:02:03 <int-e> fungot: holding on fast
12:02:03 <fungot> int-e: so it depends a lot on impl, but i know it
12:08:05 <boily> `? nød
12:08:12 <boily> `? nœud
12:08:36 <HackEgo> Nød is French for vertex.
12:08:37 <HackEgo> nœud? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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12:10:17 <boily> apparently, nød is a real Norwegian word meaning "distress" tmyk hth
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12:48:58 <b_jonas> b_jonas: hmm, we could add that entry too
12:49:13 <b_jonas> `learn nœud is Norwegian for emergency
12:49:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'nœud': nœud is Norwegian for emergency
12:50:10 <fizzie> That sounds plausible, since it's "nöd" in Swedish. (nödnummer is the emergency phone number, at least.)
12:52:27 <b_jonas> fizzie: and "not" in German
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12:53:48 <b_jonas> (actually it's "Not" in German)
12:53:57 <fizzie> "Nötkötti" is a Finnish word for a spam-like product containing pork and beef, even though the name implies it's just the latter, because of historical reasons.
12:54:06 <fizzie> The more you know.
12:54:06 <mroman_> Not?
12:54:38 <mroman_> emergency state
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13:22:29 <mroman_> why did C11 not address overflow issues and string issues?
13:30:34 <Phantom_Hoover> what do you mean 'address'
13:30:56 <Phantom_Hoover> cstrings are always going to be inherently prone to those problems
13:34:58 <mroman_> there's still no official nice way to detect overflows?
13:35:30 <mroman_> like uhm _overflow_add(a,b)
13:36:55 <b_jonas> `wisdom
13:37:09 <HackEgo> amortized/An amortized word is a word that oerjan can never remember.
13:37:11 <b_jonas> mroman_: there's no nice way
13:37:17 <b_jonas> `wisdom
13:37:27 <HackEgo> progres/Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb.
13:37:47 <b_jonas> `wisdom precious
13:37:50 <HackEgo> precious/precious? That doesn't ring a bell. ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:37:59 <b_jonas> `wisdom progres
13:38:01 <HackEgo> progres/Progress has been made today. It was invented by Taneb.
13:38:03 <b_jonas> `wisdom progresss
13:38:08 <HackEgo> ​/cat: : No such file or directory
13:38:09 <mroman_> there is a nice way
13:38:21 <mroman_> most CPUs provide flags for that.
13:38:48 <b_jonas> mroman_: it's not so simple. most _future_ cpus should not provide flags for that, because they can't do so cheaply
13:39:16 <b_jonas> mroman_: computing carry itself is easy for a cpu, but storing that status somewhere as an additional output isn't
13:39:26 <\oren\> 0x80000000|| (0x80000000&((unsigned)a + (unsigned)b)) == (0x80000000&(unsigned)a)
13:39:48 <\oren\> er.. hold on let me finish typing thay
13:39:52 <b_jonas> mroman_: but yes, there should be some nice way to ask the C compiler to detect overflows,
13:40:09 <b_jonas> mroman_: and there currently isn't an official nice way, though there is a gcc extension.
13:40:26 <mroman_> I know.
13:40:28 <b_jonas> mroman_: I hope that eventually there will be a nice way (at least in C++)
13:40:52 <mroman_> but since this is an issue of general interest one could have at least defined some macros in C11 compilers need to provide
13:40:55 <\oren\> ((0x80000000&(unsigned)a) != (0x80000000&(unsigned)b)) || (0x80000000&((unsigned)a + (unsigned)b)) == (0x80000000&(unsigned)a)
13:41:08 <mroman_> if they use CPU flags or some other checks will be up to the compiler and target architecture
13:41:27 <b_jonas> mroman_: yes, it would be nice.
13:41:31 <mroman_> but at least having a convenient way of doing it that'll work across compilers might have been nice :)
13:41:33 <mroman_> same for strings.
13:41:36 <\oren\> if that evaluates to true then there isn't an overflow
13:41:44 <b_jonas> mroman_: there should be such functions
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13:44:51 <\oren\> basically if sign(a) != sign(b) thenm there can't be an overflow
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13:45:59 <\oren\> otherwise, the sign bit of the result should be equal to the sign bit of the operands. if it isn't, then there has been an overflow
13:47:46 <\oren\> there might be an edge case as well, maybe
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15:10:28 <int-e> Well, this was fun to debug... http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shame.txt
15:13:11 <b_jonas> int-e: huh, what language is that?
15:15:30 <int-e> ocaml
15:15:57 <int-e> It's work related. (And fwiw, I wasn't responsible for the commit.)
15:17:06 <b_jonas> int-e: what looks strange to me is the word 'function'
15:17:28 <b_jonas> lua and pascal and some basics use that keyword, but I thought ml-likes used fn and fun
15:17:42 <b_jonas> or is it an identifier there?
15:18:27 <int-e> b_jonas: function acts like a combined fun and case.
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15:18:49 <int-e> I have not wondered whether it's an ocaml invention.
15:19:06 <Taneb> Like a function junction
15:24:24 <b_jonas> int-e: I see
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17:52:01 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: No DVD drive, no DVD to install Ubuntu
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17:52:40 <hppavilion[1]> What are the rules of inference for the crazy operation? xD
17:57:53 <oerjan> @messages-foul
17:57:53 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 11h 54m 9s ago: →:^::⇒:↑
17:57:53 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 11h 53m 14s ago: Oh, you figured that out. Well I'm still trying to deduce its exact behavior
18:00:28 <mroman_> http://pastebin.com/89fFBtvV
18:01:16 <hppavilion[1]> mroman_: Is that... a makefile?
18:01:19 <mroman_> since I want the syntax to be as minimal as possible if, while etc. aren't part of syntax nor grammar
18:01:45 <mroman_> hppavilion[1]: nope. it's: https://github.com/FMNSSun/Ununoctium/tree/master/spec
18:02:33 <mroman_> you split by ";", then split words
18:02:39 <mroman_> and you're pretty much done with parsing :)
18:02:50 <mroman_> the first word is the name of the function to define
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18:04:51 <mroman_> It's language minimalism... sort of
18:05:07 <mroman_> not as extreme as in esoteric languages
18:05:44 <mroman_> just to undermine the point that if you design the language correctly you can parse and run it in about 100 loc
18:06:02 <mroman_> and it's not an esoteric language.
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18:09:47 <Caesura> Would oerjan happen to be available?
18:09:49 <oerjan> mroman_: i'm not sure "undermine" means what you think it means
18:10:01 <mroman_> yeah
18:10:04 <oerjan> sorry, they're all out of me.
18:10:53 <mroman_> I probably meant emphasize
18:10:54 <mroman_> or underline
18:10:58 <mroman_> I don't know.
18:11:13 <mroman_> My language skills are harshly deteriorating.
18:11:26 <oerjan> *deterioritating
18:11:33 <Caesura> Aw, cripes. I ran into an issue with BCT in Daoyu - I don't know how to keep track of the "address" of the first open spot to copy the first bit for the instruction 1x
18:12:09 <oerjan> Caesura: i don't actually understand Daoyu, i'm afraid.
18:14:09 <oerjan> could you implement a queue in a different way?
18:15:30 <oerjan> what kind of infinite data structure _can_ you emulate?
18:15:35 <Caesura> The problem is I effectively can't linearly traverse the tape. I can remove the first element from the front fairly reasonably, but I cannot add to either the front or the back.
18:16:41 <mroman_> My devious plan to rule the world has been underlined.
18:16:50 <oerjan> neither front nor back - so you have problems making stacks too?
18:16:59 <mroman_> `? undermine
18:17:14 <HackEgo> undermine? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:17:19 <Caesura> Daoyu operates on one of an arbitrary amount of arbitrarily bounded binary trees, running by taking a binary tree as a linear tape of 4-bit words to determine the operation of the data pointer.
18:17:48 <Caesura> I am fairly certain that a stack in Daoyu is extremely nontrivial...
18:18:08 <oerjan> hm
18:18:28 <Caesura> I figured out recently how to implement a finite state machine in Daoyu, but it seems that the program size is O(e^n)
18:18:30 <oerjan> sounds like you need further research to find out how to do things.
18:18:51 <oerjan> ic. that's technically no problem for turing completeness.
18:19:17 <oerjan> you could use O(Ackermann()) in there and it'd still count :P
18:19:39 <Caesura> Indeed... it is just a bit unfortunate, really. I think it could be reduced, however, by moving some more modules into the Top level program
18:19:45 <oerjan> bit hard to debug, mind you
18:19:57 <Caesura> bit hard to write, you mean
18:20:00 <oerjan> oh
18:20:38 <Caesura> hopefully butting modules in the top level program through access trickery could spare the utter anguish of having to rebuild every program every time for every condition
18:20:40 <oerjan> Caesura: how's your arithmetic? it's not built-in but can you emulate any? then you might go for a minsky machine.
18:21:41 <Caesura> Arithmetic emulation is something incredibly painful, although I can emulate an incrementer by looping through all possible states of a finite numeral size and taking each state to the next
18:22:32 <Caesura> so to speak, IF N WRITE 0; IF N-1 WRITE N; IF N-2 WRITE N-1; ... IF 1 WRITE 2; IF 0 WRITE 1;
18:22:34 <oerjan> <Caesura> bit hard to write, you mean <-- no, debug, if it takes eons to run a test program...
18:23:00 <Caesura> I meant that the program size has a ridiculous complexity
18:23:05 <Caesura> Not the time taken to run, necessarily
18:23:15 <oerjan> ah.
18:23:34 <Caesura> At the least for this sort of program architecture.
18:23:48 <Caesura> Since it involves writing every possible program within the program data for every state
18:24:06 <oerjan> you need to find some kind of data that's (1) reasonably easy to handle (2) still unbounded in size
18:24:26 <Caesura> The problem with this program architecture is that...
18:24:33 <Caesura> The top level is unbounded, which is fine,
18:24:56 <Caesura> The first level has a left-bounded input area, state counter, and then a right-unbounded program area
18:25:51 <Caesura> The problem is that the conditional only allows the skipping of the command immediately after - therefore a conditional execution of a program will always begin rightward from the data that is being checked
18:26:09 <Caesura> anyway, hang on, my computer is running out of batteries
18:27:19 <mroman_> is a compiler a fsm?
18:27:31 <oerjan> mroman_: rarely
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18:28:03 <oerjan> in very simple cases where it's only syntax translation, maybe
18:28:19 <mroman_> so onepass compilers?
18:28:52 <oerjan> yeah but also there has to be no building up of dictionaries or the like
18:29:42 <mroman_> you could have them finite sized dictionaries :)
18:29:52 <Kaynato> Alright, I am back. At this moment I am still willing to alter the specification for Daoyu for Turing Completeness provided it does not violate its spirit or break existing functionality, I suppose
18:29:53 <oerjan> translating between brainfuck equivalents is easy. but anything that requires unbounded rearrangement is out.
18:30:20 <Kaynato> You have taken a look at the specification, right?
18:30:34 <oerjan> Kaynato: "a look"
18:31:52 <Kaynato> Ah... Hm. Do you have suggestions for improving the page's clarity?
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18:36:38 <oerjan> i'm really too overwhelmed by the spec to make meaningful suggestions at this point.
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18:37:44 <Kaynato> The specification too baroque, then
18:39:03 <oerjan> or i'm just in shape for esolanging these days.
18:39:06 <oerjan> *just not
18:39:34 <Kaynato> It seemed simpler than the written thing. Perhaps I should respecify again taking the data as a binary tree. Don't worry about it, Daoyu is painful and most of its functionality comes from edge cases
18:40:32 <oerjan> right
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18:42:25 <picobit> how's everyone feel about accumulator architectures?
18:44:49 <mroman_> I don't know what that is
18:45:27 <mroman_> architectures where the result always lands in register A?
18:45:32 <picobit> essentially.
18:45:52 <mroman_> well
18:45:57 <mroman_> it's a little bit pita to program them
18:46:04 <picobit> how so?
18:46:26 <mroman_> because 50% of the code is exchange D and A registers, read and write to A
18:46:52 <picobit> D registers?
18:46:59 <picobit> s/registers/register
18:47:05 <mroman_> data registers
18:47:15 <picobit> I'm going off the assumption that there are no other registers.
18:47:51 <mroman_> LOAD A,D; INC A; STORE A,D;
18:47:59 <picobit> although, substitute those with memory..
18:48:41 <picobit> LD <address>; INC; ST <address>;
18:48:59 <mroman_> lda <address>, inc, sta <address>
18:49:00 <mroman_> yeah
18:49:19 <mroman_> sometimes you can only load into A anyway
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18:50:30 <picobit> I'm weighing complexity.
18:50:40 <mroman_> so you do LDA <a>, MOV A, D; LDA <b>; ADD D; STA <a+b>
18:50:42 <picobit> accumulator machines are simple to implement.
18:51:19 <picobit> stack machines are also simple but with odd primitives (I enjoy stacks but I'd rather not re-order the elements)
18:53:24 <picobit> a transport triggered architecture is stupid simple on one case.
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18:55:22 <oerjan> `? nœud
18:55:24 <oerjan> `? nœd
18:55:52 <HackEgo> Nœd is Norwegian for distress.
18:55:52 <HackEgo> nœud is Norwegian for emergency
18:56:03 <oerjan> `forget nœud
18:56:06 * nitrix deflates.
18:56:07 <HackEgo> Forget what?
18:56:14 <mroman_> well
18:56:23 <mroman_> purely in-memory architectures shouldn't be too hard to implement
18:56:23 * oerjan swats b_jonas for not paying attention -----###
18:56:25 * picobit was not aware that nitrix supported DEFLATE.
18:56:51 <nitrix> picobit: Pssssshsssststssssssisssususussussssussssssssss~~Ssssssss..ssssss~ssss......
18:56:54 <mroman_> no registers, operands are always memory addresses
18:57:06 <mroman_> add [0],[1];
18:57:45 <mroman_> unless you imlement it in VHDL or circuits
18:57:53 <picobit> mroman_: I think memory -> memory architectures are suitable when you have high-speed memory on-die.
18:58:09 <picobit> and you don't want to access any external memory.
18:58:38 <mroman_> why
18:58:47 <mroman_> you can read/write from external to internal memory
18:59:22 <mroman_> don't some micros have registers in-memory anyway?
18:59:31 <mroman_> like the ones with 128B RAM or something.
18:59:51 <picobit> that's a good question. I don't think it's registers in-memory so much as a memory mapped register.
19:00:14 <mroman_> seeing that 128B RAM isn't very much
19:00:16 <mroman_> that's like uhm
19:00:30 <mroman_> 32 registers for 32bit
19:00:34 <picobit> lol
19:00:50 <picobit> the ATTiny series has like 32 bytes.
19:01:08 <mroman_> so instead of providing 32 registers you could just provide 128B ram and have everything done in-memory :D
19:01:40 <picobit> true, but you have to consider latency.
19:01:57 <picobit> there's a reason we have registers.
19:02:12 <int-e> mroman_: AVR has its registers in memory, for example. (logically at least... it also has some memory mapped IO registers just above)
19:02:27 <mroman_> lots of micros have them logically in memory
19:02:34 <mroman_> but I don't know which have it actually physically
19:02:38 <picobit> yeah.
19:03:00 <int-e> mroman_: it's hard to tell, because the physical memory tends to be part of the same chip
19:03:34 <picobit> I'd actually like to see if any existing micros use only memory.
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19:06:49 <mroman_> this guy here on SO says in the 50s and 70s it was common to have registers in-memory
19:06:52 <mroman_> rather than separate
19:07:09 <mroman_> of course, that's not really a reliable source
19:07:15 <mroman_> he doesn't even mention a specific processor
19:07:25 <picobit> yeah..
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19:14:31 <\oren\> e
19:14:35 <\oren\> wh
19:14:49 -!- gamemanj has joined.
19:15:21 <\oren\> whould a razberry pi be a good idea
19:15:43 -!- copumpkin has joined.
19:16:09 <\oren\> for attaching to a screen and watching tv on
19:16:09 <gamemanj> Well, I use one as a web server. And a mail server. And a CJDNS node. And whatever I think of at a given time that needs a continuously on server...
19:16:29 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, i think it can stream 1080p video...
19:16:51 <\oren\> can it run adobe flash?
19:17:51 <Phantom_Hoover> well i'm not going to google that for you
19:17:51 * gamemanj gulps
19:18:52 <int-e> \oren\: I hope not
19:19:09 <int-e> hmm, sprunge.us is ... absent.
19:19:19 <gamemanj> Apparently Gnash works on it...
19:19:20 <Phantom_Hoover> why would you hope not
19:19:40 <gamemanj> but apparently you don't want to try using it for Youtube like that.
19:20:01 <gamemanj> However, luckily Youtube itself supports HTML5.
19:20:02 <int-e> because flash is as sanitary as a flea-infested mutt with diarrhea
19:20:13 <gamemanj> int-e++
19:20:42 <Phantom_Hoover> you think there's much flash malware targeted at the rpi?
19:20:51 <gamemanj> so what if there's no malware?
19:21:06 <gamemanj> flash is just... messy. If you absolutely need flash to do something, and have no other options, maybe.
19:21:19 <Phantom_Hoover> which you often will if you're trying to watch web video
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19:23:14 <mroman_> doesn't html5 have better support?
19:24:51 <Phantom_Hoover> in lots of places it does but you still need flash sometimes
19:25:12 <gamemanj> Phantom_Hoover: Youtube does HTML5, Beam does HTML5, Twitch does HTML5. Though, via testing I'm doing right now, it seems you have to use "http://player.twitch.tv/?channel=(ChannelID)&html5".
19:25:23 <picobit> hm.
19:25:25 <picobit> you know.
19:25:26 <gamemanj> But yes, you do need Flash in some places.
19:25:36 <int-e> what was html5 again... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/HTML5_APIs_and_related_technologies_taxonomy_and_status.svg suggests it's a huge mess
19:25:38 <Phantom_Hoover> he said tv, not livestreaming
19:25:58 <picobit> given a fast enough piece of SRAM and some well-defined address names.. you wouldn't notice the difference between memory and registers.
19:26:13 <int-e> (though a lot more green than the last time I looked at that chart)
19:28:48 <gamemanj> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, so services like Hulu. In which case Blame DRM (tm). (or Blame Proprietary Software (tm) in general if you want)
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19:29:32 <gamemanj> If it absolutely must use Adobe Flash, and doesn't work on Gnash, there's nothing that can be done.
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19:31:15 <picobit> flash is trash! spread the word.
19:31:45 <picobit> hulu still uses Flash?
19:31:51 <gamemanj> I have no idea.
19:32:06 <picobit> fun.
19:34:15 <shachaf> `smlist 436
19:34:17 <HackEgo> smlist 436: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
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19:37:41 <shachaf> HackEgo: thanks
19:38:45 * int-e is guilty of playing the occasional flash game
19:40:08 <shachaf> int-e: do you play prismata twh
19:40:27 <int-e> not as far as I know
19:40:28 <gamemanj> Playing flash content, isn't the problem. It's making flash content when other people have all jumped ship.
19:41:32 <int-e> sounds like an online multi-player game, I'm out
19:45:44 <picobit> I think the last flash game I enjoyed was Stick Arena.
19:45:51 <picobit> and that was in 2006-2007.
19:46:59 <gamemanj> in GRT, that's before records began!
19:47:36 <gamemanj> (GRT: Gamemanj Relative Time. Anything > 1 year is "ancient", 2 years is "archaic", and ~8 years is "before records began")
19:48:34 <picobit> hah.
19:48:43 <gamemanj> (As for "before existance began", that's quite a bit longer.)
19:52:25 <picobit> I remember downloading some sort of trainer for Stick Arena that let you pose as a moderator.
19:52:29 <picobit> fun times were had.
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19:56:06 <earendel> that mmrpgs are horrible. hundreds or thousands of players like ignoring each other. one day i'll write a game which not just allows interaction, but makes it
19:56:06 <earendel> indispensable.. first change: progressing in the game will cripple your dice-values. any advantage would imply some disadvantage. the world should be a dangerous place, and survival without teamwork impossible.people would need to take responsiblities in the game, having economical or political power over other players allowing them to pgrogress or even making slaves. why should the final boss be a stupid monster
19:56:06 <earendel> to be hacknslayed after you cliked 2-3 mice to death
19:57:05 <gamemanj> ...But what happens if the "slaves" don't like it and quit?
19:57:13 <earendel> they fucking quit.
19:57:20 <earendel> sorry.
19:57:27 <earendel> butthat's it.
19:57:40 <earendel> no paypal function to be free.
19:58:17 <gamemanj> In which case, it would collapse.
19:58:36 <gamemanj> All the slaves would ragequit, the people in power would lose it, and everything would fall apart.
19:58:42 <earendel> well. it's all very vague. but i start to get a few key aspects of a good game.
19:58:45 <gamemanj> And then the game would be empty.
19:58:53 <earendel> sounds like a good game1! :)
19:59:26 <Phantom_Hoover> earendel, so you want eve online
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19:59:47 <earendel> no seriously. i believe the people would like it. in the the early days of ultima people were playing beggars.
19:59:55 <earendel> not tanks
19:59:58 <Phantom_Hoover> so you want eve online
20:00:12 <gamemanj> Hmm. I suppose, given what I've heard, eve would be the closest match
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20:15:24 <earendel> hmm..:) " a forgotten fee payment in the game triggered the biggest battle of the past decade. " yeah.. that sounds interesting! https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spiegel.de%2Fnetzwelt%2Fgames%2Feve-online-spieler-vernichten-schiffe-im-wert-von-200-000-euro-a-946251.html
20:15:50 <gamemanj> ...
20:18:22 <b_jonas> olsner: huh, what do I have to pay attention to?
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20:19:53 <olsner> b_jonas: not sure
20:20:19 <olsner> I wasn't paying attention
20:21:24 <b_jonas> oh, sorry, misping
20:21:31 <b_jonas> oerjan: what do I have to pay attention to?
20:22:00 <hppavilion[1]> What fuzzy types would make good primitives in a fuzzy type theory?
20:27:00 <mroman_> damn panick attacks
20:27:40 <gamemanj> is that talking about kernel panics or a different kind of panic?
20:28:09 <mroman_> the more serious kind
20:28:16 <gamemanj> ...
20:28:20 <gamemanj> that's not very helpful
20:28:31 <mroman_> the different kind of panic
20:28:36 <mroman_> not kernel panics
20:28:59 <gamemanj> Kittens. Kittens should help.
20:29:13 <mroman_> yeah
20:29:21 <mroman_> probably not.
20:29:22 <picobit> well.
20:29:28 <picobit> I panic when my kernel does.
20:29:46 <mroman_> not when you're i-wanna-stab-myself-panicy
20:31:23 <gamemanj> cuddle a cushion!
20:34:36 <gamemanj> hmm... hopefully mroman_'s lack of reply is due to cudding a cushion and thus being unable to access a keyboard.
20:34:52 <gamemanj> ...or mroman_ deciding that my ideas are worthless. Either one's fine.
20:34:57 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Don't be a dick.
20:36:42 <picobit> don't see how he's being a dick.
20:36:50 <mroman_> I may have provoked the attack.
20:37:03 <mroman_> by not doing what I was supposed to do... or at least think I was supposed to do
20:37:11 <mroman_> or it's a side-effect from withdrawal
20:38:03 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:38:06 <mroman_> gonna watch some TV.
20:38:18 -!- lambda-11235 has quit (Quit: Bye).
20:44:56 <zzo38> What TV show?
20:49:23 * picobit ponders using a constants table over an explicit instruction format.
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20:56:00 <mroman_> movie
20:56:08 <mroman_> "The Jury"
20:56:39 <mroman_> although the proper english title is "A Time To Kill"
20:57:46 <picobit> damn fine movie.
20:59:17 * hppavilion[1] is Judge, Jury, and Instruction Execution Unit
20:59:44 * gamemanj doesn't like execution, he much prefers copying bytes
21:00:21 <hppavilion[1]> <EsOS/EsoArch idea>: You cannot execute a program without first giving it a fair trial
21:00:26 <earendel> it's interesintg how computing with values broader than registers is done..64bit don't change a lot in context of algo-design. streams. interations. memoization. i wanted to bring calculating pi as an example.. but it turned out it's possible to calculate the nth digit of pi wihtout iteration^^
21:01:12 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: Here's the fair trial. I accuse project-nyancat-expanded.bp of being written by gamemanj, who is an awful programmer.
21:01:19 <earendel> https://www.math.hmc.edu/funfacts/ffiles/20010.5.shtml
21:01:36 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: bp?
21:02:22 <gamemanj> (BytePusher. I expanded Nucular's NyanCat program for it. Well, closer to "ripped out the art then rewrote"...)
21:03:39 <gamemanj> (I'm still trying to work out if I should or should not put it on the wiki, since it contains, well, a few megabytes worth of nyancat sound data.)
21:04:14 <b_jonas> Does somebody use chrome? I usually use firefox, so I have a question. Has current versions of chrome fixed the bug where if you press control-F and then type the text to search for, and the window is busy computing, then you lose the part of the text you type before chrome can react and put the find text input box on?
21:05:24 * int-e flips a coin
21:05:47 <b_jonas> `8-ball that bug is still unfixed in chrome, right?
21:05:56 <HackEgo> Without a doubt.
21:05:59 <prooftechnique> b_jonas: I find that that still happens to me in Chrome, when I use it
21:06:00 <earendel> lol
21:06:15 <b_jonas> prooftechnique: thanks.
21:08:13 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:09:19 <earendel> you often search and lose your text? never happened to me at all. i mean other things but nto that. sounds like the search box is part of the dom. firefox' xul components have an own life. i liked them. but it seems they decided to drop xul
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21:12:30 <b_jonas> earendel: it probably happens more often because I'm on a slow machine with little memory, so sometimes the browser takes some time to respond
21:12:53 <b_jonas> but it's a very annoying bug to me
21:15:30 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
21:15:58 <earendel> yeah. i had to make use off the oportunity and cry about that decision. my favorite extensions stopped working already. and it ends up with extensions just being websites with access to resources they don't need to have.
21:17:40 <earendel> i like chromes dev.tools tho. and usualy it performs better. also i have upgraded my hardware last week. first time since like 5 years.
21:18:23 <earendel> i can gladly sayctrl-f works fine in chroe now. and there's still enough resources for seti.
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22:01:01 -!- vifino- has changed nick to vifino.
22:01:59 <Marcela_Gandara> hola a que grupo me puedo conectar que hablen español?
22:02:08 -!- tromp has joined.
22:05:34 <shachaf> `bienvenido Marcela_Gandara
22:05:38 <HackEgo> Marcela_Gandara: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en EFnet o DALnet.)
22:06:02 <Marcela_Gandara> HackEgo: donde hablan español?
22:06:48 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
22:07:18 <int-e> #esoteric != #espanol
22:07:39 <int-e> `? hackego
22:07:39 <b_jonas> ah, it's the canaima users again
22:07:42 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in Mexico!
22:08:22 <int-e> isn't it based in Canada though...
22:08:30 <int-e> I'm probably missing a cultural reference here
22:08:35 -!- Caesura has joined.
22:12:05 <b_jonas> int-e: huh what? no, canaima is a software (a linux distro or somesuch) strongly associated with a particular latin-american country, and for some reason which we haven't figured out yet, people using it end up here (probably something to do with some irc client software in it)
22:12:31 <int-e> b_jonas: I was referring to the mention of Mexico in HackEgo's description
22:12:42 <b_jonas> ah
22:15:29 <b_jonas> I wonder if we should set up a bot to auto-invite these people to #canaima-social or something
22:18:28 <b_jonas> `? canaima
22:18:33 <HackEgo> Canaima is a secret Venezuelan project to overrun #esoteric with incomprehensible people who have no idea why they're here.
22:22:47 <picobit> http://ideone.com/qJvbDu
22:22:53 <picobit> hm.
22:24:07 <picobit> I quite like this but I wonder how one would make a conditional jump.
22:24:24 -!- nycs has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:25:18 <picobit> probably one would have a "branch" unit, whereby you'd input the conditional input into one slot and it directly messes with the program counter. a jump is as simple as {source, 0}
22:31:44 <b_jonas> fizzie: should we MODE #esoteric +b *!canaima@*$#canaima-social ? or would that be rude?
22:37:06 <zzo38> No you should make up a new channel ##canaima-notice and redirect to that one. And add a notice there that mention that this is not the Spanish IRC, and also write the translation of the message in Spanish, and explain how to do in case they actually really did want #esoteric channel
22:38:50 <b_jonas> zzo38: well, ideally someone should try to find out why canaima users get here, and what they likely want instead
22:39:12 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes, and include that in the notice too.
22:39:37 <zzo38> And set the new channel made up for this purpose as free target perhaps, in case other channels are having similar problems possibly
22:39:56 <b_jonas> zzo38: #canaima has the +F (free target) flag set (but not the +g flag)
22:40:41 <picobit> http://ideone.com/qJvbDu
22:40:49 <picobit> even more interesting.. we're on our way to a branch unit.
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22:52:58 <zzo38> I would expect you don't need +g though it seem like +F is good for this purpose?
22:53:08 <int-e> so much for the idea that proximity of #esp to #eso would be the root cause of this confusion... there are at least two visible channels between us that them.
23:03:09 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:04:01 <FireFly> Free target? I thought +F was forward
23:04:05 <FireFly> or is that +f...
23:04:45 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:05:21 <b_jonas> FireFly: +f is default forward target for banned joiners and throttle
23:06:55 <FireFly> <b_jonas> zzo38: well, ideally someone should try to find out why canaima users get here, and what they likely want instead ← have we tried asking in #canaima-social (if that's a thing)?
23:07:06 <FireFly> Seems to be a thing indeed
23:07:21 <b_jonas> FireFly: I haven't tried
23:07:22 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
23:07:32 <FireFly> I don't know spanish, but it seems like *someone* in there would know english maybe
23:07:47 <b_jonas> FireFly: probably
23:08:09 <FireFly> Their topic and rules are all in spanish though..
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23:14:53 * hppavilion[1] is learning him a haskell under the promise of it bringing about great good
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23:38:40 <oerjan> <b_jonas> oerjan: what do I have to pay attention to? <-- the fact that i'd already made a `? nœd entry
23:39:00 <oerjan> and why in the world would you add a u anyway
23:39:29 <oerjan> (ok so that would be sort of nynorsk. but not in a good way, because there's no ø in the nynorsk version)
23:39:52 <oerjan> you just went to bed didn't you.
23:46:03 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas see log.
23:46:03 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:46:26 <earendel> zzo38: "in case they actually really did want #esoteric channel" <- are you really saying people join here on purpose?
23:46:44 <oerjan> it's been known to happen.
23:47:47 <zzo38> earendel: Yes it is possible.
23:49:33 -!- oerjan has set topic: Pickle surprise! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Kaliningrad (not Königsberg).
23:50:00 <earendel> :>
23:50:48 <oerjan> you kant go wrong with that
23:52:23 <earendel> so .. what would be an esoteric language that is intersting to investigate and not a brainfuck derivate? i know of those. they don't change a lot. only same obscuring tape shizzle.
23:52:56 <earendel> (im a fan of mariolang tho)
23:54:25 <earendel> alright. not all at once please.
23:54:55 <oerjan> befunge, glass, fueue, ///, piet, underload, kayak
23:55:31 <oerjan> just a small sample, partly biased.
23:55:45 <int-e> no unlambda?
23:55:54 <oerjan> small sample i said :P
23:56:13 <earendel> ok. thank you. this will keep me busy for a while. (please don't forward me to #canaima!)
23:56:14 <int-e> i'm just asking because you've covered the rest of my shortlist
23:56:44 <oerjan> how far it's come when i don't remember unlambda, my first discovered esolang. oh wait, forgot INTERCAL.
23:57:46 <int-e> intercal is almost mainstream... even knuth has programmed in it... *runs*
23:57:48 <oerjan> did someone put up canaima forwarding? temptation has been strong.
23:58:52 <Taneb> oerjan, ooh, I don't know kayak
23:59:07 <oerjan> i know kayak from way back when i was on the mailing list
23:59:18 * int-e still has his kayak interpreter
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