←2016-04-22 2016-04-23 2016-04-24→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:11:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes, correct
00:11:10 <zzo38> I think I have found a bug in LodePNG, but do not yet know what the bug is.
00:12:15 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/img_1A/wrongLodePNG.png The background is supposed to be black, not transparent.
00:15:32 -!- FreeFull has joined.
00:18:01 <zzo38> I will try upgrading to the latest version to see if that corrects it.
00:23:30 <hppavilion[1]> If one were to make a FOSS skype-like application in the style of GNU
00:23:35 <hppavilion[1]> What features would it have?
00:23:39 <zzo38> That fixed it but I also found another problem in that my program is writing a short output
00:24:01 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: I think a lot of GNU software is too large and complicated
00:24:16 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Fair enough
00:24:32 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: The question was, to some degree, to open joke vectors
00:24:49 <zzo38> Ah, OK
00:26:32 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: A videochat client in the style of Vim? xD
00:26:36 <hppavilion[1]> s/Vim/Vi/
00:29:01 <zzo38> I suppose it could be possible although vi is a text editor so the function would be different. One that uses command-line parameter and then simply open a connection, using the keys on keyboard to do controls, could work I suppose. Command-line option can include whether you are the server or the client as well as an optional security key file
00:29:36 <zzo38> To use a sufficiently simple protocol that can be independent of the implentation, can also help.
00:31:54 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I'm currently just serializing a NumPy array xD
00:41:58 -!- Kaynato has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:45:40 -!- Moon_ has joined.
00:45:47 <Moon_> Hello
00:45:53 <oerjan> `relcome Moon_
00:46:16 <HackEgo> Moon_: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:46:25 <oerjan> shachaf: i had to look at the oots wiki to finally remember who that paladin woman is
00:47:05 <Moon_> main reason im here at the sec is cause i need some help makeing the specs for the Demons Esoteric Language, which i have the starting page up on the wiki
00:47:34 <Moon_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Demons
00:48:22 <shachaf> oerjan: am i forgetting something
00:48:56 <oerjan> dr_fizzie: i think the HackEgo wikilink is broken
00:49:16 <Moon_> also, what would be a good way to make a interpreter for Demons?
00:49:29 <oerjan> @tell dr_fizzie i think the HackEgo wikilink is broken
00:49:29 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:49:45 <zzo38> Why didn't they add a XOR filter into the PNG specification? (It might be useful for some scanlines of some indexed-color pictures)
00:49:55 <Moon_> No idea
00:50:11 <shachaf> dr_fizzie: whoa, congradoctor
00:50:15 <Moon_> Lazyness is best bet, .PNG is made for online use
00:50:21 <oerjan> bah, doctorates are overrated
00:50:26 <zzo38> (There could be two, a horizontal XOR filter and a vertical XOR filter)
00:50:42 <Moon_> Png is literally made for the web
00:50:46 <shachaf> oerjan: doctorates are very high
00:51:00 <oerjan> shachaf: forgetting what?
00:51:05 <shachaf> oerjan: about the paladin
00:51:12 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm just commenting on the last `olist
00:51:22 <shachaf> hasn't she appeared in the last few olists too
00:51:45 <shachaf> anyway you can't trust anything fizzie says now
00:51:50 <shachaf> since he's been doctored
00:52:01 <Moon_> Is anyone intrested in making Demons sample code (no interpreter at the second, so you might have to wait)
00:52:25 <zzo38> The YZIP picture library format (used with Z-machine) requires indexed-color and requires that each scanline is XOR the scanline above it, or the picture header can specify to XOR with the scanline above the scanline above it instead. It also supports optional RLE and Huffman compression, but not DEFLATE.
00:52:51 <oerjan> shachaf: yes, but i was sort of hoping that they'd address each other by name some time soon
00:53:10 <Moon_> im guessing im being ignored
00:53:22 <oerjan> Moon_: no way!
00:53:35 * oerjan has just opened the Demon page
00:53:52 <oerjan> *+s
00:54:11 <Moon_> first thing oerjan sees: omg this needs so much improvement
00:54:13 <shachaf> oerjan: well, i can't recall her name hth
00:54:24 <oerjan> shachaf: *MWAHAHAHA*
00:54:33 * oerjan secret knowledge
00:55:43 <Moon_> oerjan: it would be nice if you commited to helping out with the specifications and sample code (interpreter would be amazing)
00:56:18 <tswett> I wonder if anyone's ever come up with a universal compression format.
00:56:24 <oerjan> Moon_: sadly i don't think it's my style of esolang
00:56:33 <tswett> Use it for compressing any sort of thing. Images, sound, text, video.
00:56:52 <Moon_> damn, at least you can store it in small spaces
00:57:04 <Moon_> (and hide it in a midi file if you wish)
00:57:34 <tswett> Call it... "gflampeng".
00:59:32 <zzo38> Moon_: I suppose you did not define all opcodes yet? Are some opcodes suppose to be user-defined and/or interpreter-defined?
00:59:49 <oerjan> also i mostly gave up on improving esolang pages back in october or so when i'd built up a 2 month backlog.
01:00:16 <Moon_> interpreter defined, but new opcodes to the standard are welcome
01:00:54 <Moon_> just like the size of a address is interpreter dependent
01:01:00 <shachaf> oerjan: *MWAHAHAHA* doesn't seem like an appropriate name for a paladin hth
01:01:08 <zzo38> Perhaps reserve 0x80 up to 0xFF for interpreter define could be made up
01:01:11 -!- centrinia has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
01:01:33 <Moon_> maybe, why dont you add that?
01:01:40 <zzo38> Moon_: Is endianness also interpreter dependent?
01:02:11 <oerjan> shachaf: not asian enough?
01:02:33 <zzo38> In OASYS VM the endianness and size of numbers (there are no addresses) is implementation-defined, too
01:03:07 <oerjan> Moon_: i suggest you ask hppavilion[1] *cackles evilly*
01:03:20 <Moon_> mhm, well, really i would say it should be big endianness
01:03:41 <Moon_> but interpreter dependent, yea
01:04:52 <oerjan> shachaf: Mua Haxa perhaps?
01:05:20 <zzo38> (The standard implementations only compile and execute the native format of numbers of the computer it runs on, although I wrote a compiler myself which supports 8-bit or 16-bit or 32-bit, with big-endian or small-endian, independent of the computer it runs on)
01:05:21 * oerjan vaguely trying to learn pinyin lately
01:05:48 * Moon_ thinks zzo38 is thinking about making a Demons interpreter
01:05:59 * Moon_ would be very happy if that is right
01:06:01 <oerjan> actually x has the wrong pronunciation
01:06:42 <zzo38> Moon_: Actually at this time I am not; sorry. (Possibly in future though)
01:06:59 <Moon_> its fine, i was curious
01:07:11 <Moon_> i have yet to make the hello world program sample
01:07:52 * oerjan needs to look up how jqx are really supposed to be done
01:09:13 <Moon_> Also, i beleive demons has the possibility of being compiled
01:09:52 <tswett> `unidecode ⭘
01:09:53 <HackEgo> ​[U+2B58 HEAVY CIRCLE]
01:10:16 <oerjan> `unicode LIGHT CIRCLE
01:10:18 <HackEgo> No output.
01:10:24 <oerjan> wat
01:10:30 <oerjan> `unicode FNORD
01:10:32 <HackEgo> No output.
01:10:48 <oerjan> . o O ( could need better erroring )
01:10:52 <Moon_> unicode SPACE
01:11:06 <oerjan> Moon_: you need the `
01:11:08 <Moon_> i dont have the right key
01:11:10 <Moon_> nvm
01:11:16 <Moon_> `unicode SPACE
01:11:18 <HackEgo> No output.
01:11:23 <Moon_> wut
01:11:33 <oerjan> Moon_: oh HackEgo strips space :P
01:11:47 <Moon_> lol
01:11:49 <oerjan> so that was probably a coincidence
01:11:55 <oerjan> `unicode MULTIOCULAR O
01:11:57 <HackEgo> U+A66E CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O \ UTF-8: ea 99 ae UTF-16BE: a66e Decimal: &#42606; \ ꙮ \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
01:12:04 <oerjan> bah
01:12:24 <Moon_> zzo38: are you updating the wiki page then?
01:12:24 <oerjan> it has two different output styles dependent on which database it finds it in
01:12:34 <tswett> `unicode PREGNANT WOMAN
01:12:35 <HackEgo> No output.
01:12:41 <Moon_> .....
01:12:47 <tswett> `unicode BITCOIN SIGN
01:12:47 <oerjan> `unicode COMMA
01:12:51 <HackEgo> No output.
01:12:51 <HackEgo> ​,
01:12:54 <oerjan> finally
01:13:17 <tswett> `unicode TACO
01:13:18 <HackEgo> No output.
01:13:30 <tswett> `unicode MAN DANCING
01:13:31 <HackEgo> No output.
01:13:35 <tswett> `unicode CALL ME HAND
01:13:36 <HackEgo> No output.
01:13:43 <tswett> `unicode NERD FACE
01:13:45 <HackEgo> No output.
01:13:49 <Moon_> what are your favorite esoteric programming language?
01:14:18 <oerjan> `unicode SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW
01:14:18 <tswett> `unicode POWER SLEEP SYMBOL
01:14:23 <HackEgo> ​⛄
01:14:24 <HackEgo> No output.
01:14:31 <tswett> Moon_: my favorite esoteric programming languages tend to be the ones I've made.
01:14:41 <tswett> /// might be my favorite.
01:14:59 <oerjan> /// is pretty good
01:15:57 <Moon_> oer, would a interpreter for Demons be possible from you? it would be a nice favor
01:16:01 <oerjan> no.
01:16:39 <Moon_> shame
01:16:54 <oerjan> i rarely work even on the languages that interest me, and yours really doesn't.
01:17:15 <Moon_> eh, i understand
01:17:39 <Moon_> i should get to work, then *really bad at interpreters*
01:20:10 * Moon_ is now afk
01:27:07 <Moon_> standard opcode table:
01:27:10 <Moon_> char validopcodes = {0x00,0x01,0x02,0x03,0x04,0x05,0x06,0x07,0x08,0x09,0x0A,0x0B,0x0C,0x0D,0x0F,0x10,0x11,0x12,0x13,0x14,0x15,0x16,0x17,0x18,0x19,0x1A,0x1B,0x1C,0x1D}
01:30:09 <oerjan> i think you may have left out a * or []
01:31:10 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: You're bad at... interpreters?
01:31:37 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Well, ⛄ is a nice language IIRC
01:31:50 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Um.
01:31:53 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: How?
01:32:33 <tswett> How what?
01:32:57 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: You sent a message that began with a slash.
01:33:04 <tswett> Ah.
01:33:11 <tswett> With my client, at least, you do that like this:
01:33:11 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Interpreters are not hard usually. What language are you using?
01:33:17 <Moon_> C++
01:33:18 <tswett> /say [something beginning with a slash]
01:33:30 <tswett> And, of course, I sent that by doing:
01:33:35 <tswett> /say /say [something beginning with a slash]
01:33:41 <tswett> You can probably figure out how I sent *that* one.
01:34:24 <Moon_> hppa, how should i handle the memory?
01:34:33 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I can't.
01:34:36 <zzo38> / With my client it is same as any other message /
01:35:27 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Either a normal array if you're fine with finite memory as a proof-of-concept or a vector/doubly-linked list/whatever for theoretically unbounded
01:35:29 <zzo38> (The default message sending command is a space, so all messages require space at first)
01:35:48 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: What client are you using?
01:36:53 * hppavilion[1] must know all the things
01:37:16 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: I use one I wrote by myself
01:37:27 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Ah, that's one of my favourite strategies
01:37:49 <zzo38> (because I didn't like any of the others)
01:38:46 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> So people on the streets of our beautiful city usually just throw [...] <-- hm i recall my mother telling that when she was on vacation in budapest in the 80s, they washed the streets every night.
01:38:46 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:39:31 <zzo38> If I wrote it today I would have probably done some things differently because I use Linux now; at the time I wrote it I used Windows.
01:39:46 <hppavilion[1]> If I want to make a language that accepts ANY program as input and ANY input to pass the program and ALWAYS produces an output NEVER crashing, what data model do i use and what principals to I follow?
01:40:10 <Moon_> Something similar to Demons
01:40:23 <Moon_> at least i'd say
01:40:45 <Moon_> (http://esolangs.org/wiki/Demons)
01:42:16 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: that's not a very tall order.
01:42:19 <hppavilion[1]> I just thought of the most programmatically-hardcore thing that one could possibly do
01:42:47 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: with such a language, each program would probably simply consist of a list of instructions, with each instruction being one character. Something like that.
01:42:50 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: NOPful languages are banned, but NOPs for undefined characters are allowed
01:42:52 <Moon_> also, hppa, demons is what im trying to make a interpreter for
01:42:57 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Well duh
01:43:01 <tswett> No real syntax.
01:43:13 <Moon_> Demons does one char
01:43:15 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: If you call me "hp", then my client will highlight you so I know you're talking to me
01:43:24 <Moon_> oh
01:43:27 <tswett> And then you'd just define each instruction without saying "the program crashes" at any point.
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01:43:34 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I'm talking about the principals of designing the instructions
01:43:50 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I thought that the BFy syntax part was obvious
01:43:58 <tswett> There's not much restricting you.
01:44:20 <tswett> Well, there are ways to do that where programs are *not* lists of instructions.
01:45:01 <tswett> One example is Jot: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jot
01:45:04 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan and I seem to be entering a CTCP war
01:45:11 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: True, ture
01:45:13 <hppavilion[1]> *true
01:45:31 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Hm... I wonder if I could make one with actual syntax and backup syntax...
01:45:34 <oerjan> if i'd told irssi my credit card number, that could have got ugly.
01:45:45 <tswett> Though you could think of Jot as being a list of "meta-instructions"—instructions that you follow in order to create a program which you then run.
01:45:57 <oerjan> actually i don't have one, i have a debet card.
01:46:11 <oerjan> although i keep getting offers so maybe i should
01:46:28 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... A programming language that comes with a garbage distributor?
01:46:55 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: *principles
01:47:04 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Dammit
01:47:07 <tswett> That's an interesting idea.
01:47:19 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: It's more a stupid pun. But still.
01:47:25 <hppavilion[1]> Also
01:47:25 <shachaf> oerjan: I started getting credit cards recently. It's great.
01:47:34 <tswett> Instead of deleting objects once all the references to them are gone, it creates objects randomly and gives you references to them.
01:47:36 <shachaf> I'm finally, like, in the system, man.
01:47:39 <tswett> And then you have to get rid of them manually.
01:47:50 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Actually, this is sounding rather interesting...
01:48:03 <shachaf> In the past when people tried to check my credit history they concluded that I didn't exist.
01:48:06 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: A language where the only data initialization operation is "Create a random hunk of data"
01:48:25 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: And you have to use comparisons and such on the data to get what you want
01:48:38 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Oooh, perhaps the 9s trick would be of use
01:48:52 -!- tromp has joined.
01:48:55 <hppavilion[1]> We have many sorting algorithms, but not as many shuffling algorithms.
01:48:58 <tswett> hppavilion[1]: yeah, I like that idea.
01:49:26 <hppavilion[1]> ansii is my new favourite character set
01:49:45 <tswett> Say, I've been putting a little bit of thought into the idea of a "serious" language inspired by Al Dente.
01:50:00 <tswett> "Serious" meaning "of interest to computer scientists", not "of interest to programmers".
01:51:06 <tswett> You can define classes, and each class defines a type of object. Classes have attributes, just like in any OOP language.
01:51:18 <tswett> But there are two crucial differences that makes this language really weird.
01:52:22 <oerjan> `addquote <zzo38> Do not throw your cigarettes end on the floor the cockroaches will have cancer
01:52:26 <HackEgo> 1277) <zzo38> Do not throw your cigarettes end on the floor the cockroaches will have cancer
01:53:08 <tswett> First: Any attribute can hold a value called... let's call it... "neutral"? Sure. All attributes start off having this value. Generally, once an attribute comes to have any other value, it can never go back to "neutral".
01:53:15 <oerjan> hm
01:53:17 <oerjan> `revert
01:53:28 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:53:34 <oerjan> not really zzo38 specific enough
01:53:45 <Moon_> anyone willing to make a interpreter for demons? (http://esolangs.org/wiki/Demons)
01:54:08 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: I think that figuring it out would be a good task for you
01:54:28 <tswett> Values are partially ordered, and the value of a variable can only change to values that are greater. "Neutral" is always the least value.
01:54:29 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Along with realizing that this is not a channel that does stuff for people. It's just a bunch of nerds hanging out.
01:54:35 <Moon_> heh, true
01:54:38 <Moon_> i get that
01:54:42 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I am listening.
01:54:57 <Moon_> well ima think on Demons samples
01:54:59 <tswett> Second: The value of a variable can change spontaneously. With most programming languages, you have to write code to make stuff happen. With this language, you have to write code to *stop* stuff from happening.
01:55:18 <hppavilion[1]> :O
01:56:04 * hppavilion[1] expresses mindblowiness in Java, thus consuming everybody's scrollback
01:56:32 <tswett> Let me give an example of a class.
01:56:36 <tswett> This class is called Xor.
01:56:49 <tswett> It has three attributes: A, B, and C. They are all booleans.
01:57:04 <tswett> The initial state of any Xor object is, of course, {neutral, neutral, neutral}.
01:57:53 <tswett> The Xor class has the following rule: "If A, B and C are all set, then exactly zero or two of them must be false."
01:59:01 <tswett> If you just have a Xor object by itself, not connected to anything, then its attributes may spontaneously become set.
02:00:30 <tswett> But! You can tie the Xor object's attributes to things.
02:00:37 <hppavilion[1]> `unicode TOILET, WATER CLOSET
02:00:39 <HackEgo> No output.
02:00:43 <hppavilion[1]> `unicode TOILET
02:00:48 <HackEgo> U+1F6BD TOILET \ UTF-8: f0 9f 9a bd UTF-16BE: d83ddebd Decimal: &#128701; \ 🚽 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
02:00:48 <hppavilion[1]> `unicode WATER CLOSET
02:00:49 <HackEgo> U+1F6BE WATER CLOSET \ UTF-8: f0 9f 9a be UTF-16BE: d83ddebe Decimal: &#128702; \ 🚾 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
02:00:55 <tswett> If you have a Xor object, then you might specify this rule on it: "A can't be anything but 'true' and B can't be anything but 'false'".
02:00:59 <hppavilion[1]> Why are there two different things for that. Why.
02:01:01 <hppavilion[1]> Y.
02:01:18 <tswett> This doesn't guarantee that A and B will be set to true and false, of course. It will just guarantee that they *won't* be set to anything *other* than that.
02:01:32 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Huh.
02:01:37 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Is it non-deterministic?
02:01:41 <tswett> Yeah.
02:02:01 <tswett> In fact, if you have this Xor object, as I just described it, C might spontaneously set itself to "false". Then there's no way for A and B to both get set later on; one or the other will remain neutral forever.
02:02:17 <tswett> But you can also add this rule: "C can't be set unless A and B are set."
02:03:00 <tswett> As a result, C can't be set to anything besides "true XOR false", which is "true".
02:03:03 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: Interesting.
02:03:16 <tswett> So this is how you can imitate a function in this language.
02:04:08 <tswett> Have an object where the values of some variables ("output variables") are restricted based on the values of some other variables ("input variables"), and where the "output variables" can't become set until after all the "input variables" are set.
02:04:55 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
02:04:55 <lambdabot> ENVA 230050Z 23004KT 190V270 3000E -SN FEW002 BKN021 00/M01 Q1013 RMK WIND 670FT 28005KT
02:05:33 <hppavilion[1]> @metar HELL
02:05:33 <lambdabot> No result.
02:05:36 <hppavilion[1]> OK, good.
02:06:41 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Why are there two different things for that. Why. <-- the first one is actually a composting one hth
02:06:54 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh
02:07:06 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Disturbing that such a thing exists, really.
02:07:41 <Moon_> ima do starting small with interpreters (Dog, here i come! woof woof woof woof growl bark bark growl growl)
02:07:43 <tswett> Of course, "input" and "output" don't mean anything to the language itself.
02:07:43 <tswett> You can have two inputs tied together, or two outputs tied together, or a single input with lots of outputs tied to it, or ...
02:08:32 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's very organic hth
02:08:41 <oerjan> also, where did spring go
02:09:40 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> @metar HELL <-- technically, ENVA is within walking distance of Hell hth
02:09:54 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, yay
02:10:10 <oerjan> also literally.
02:11:21 <oerjan> tswett: it will of course be NP-complete whether it's possible for all variables to get set.
02:11:51 <oerjan> or for one particular to get set, as well.
02:12:47 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: NP-complete? How would you check a solution?
02:13:41 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it would consist of a set of values for the variables and the order they get set in
02:13:50 <oerjan> *an assignment
02:14:00 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Decision problems can't be NP-complete AFAICT because there are only 2 possible solutions... If it wasn't possible to check it in polynomial time, it wouldn't be in NP, and if it is possible, then it's O(2k) where k is the time
02:14:04 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh
02:14:17 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: How about just an odict?
02:14:26 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: um NP-complete problems _are_ decision problems.
02:14:31 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh
02:14:34 * hppavilion[1] is stupid
02:14:41 * hppavilion[1] is very, very stupid
02:14:54 <oerjan> NP-hard ones need not be
02:15:46 <oerjan> what's an odict?
02:17:05 <oerjan> anyway, the ability to create rules that restrict what order variables can be set means you also need the order of setting to check. without those rules, it would be simpler and just the value assignments would suffice (but still NP-complete)
02:17:32 <oerjan> also, if it were possible to _unset_ variables again, this would probably be PSPACE-complete.
02:18:17 <oerjan> and i'm of course assuming a finite set of variables with a finite set of possible values. otherwise it can probably be TC.
02:19:37 * oerjan is really just saying "trivial" things here, once you know the CT basics
02:19:46 <Moon_> hp ima do starting small with interpreters (Dog, here i come! woof woof woof woof growl bark bark growl growl)
02:20:34 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: I heard
02:20:35 <oerjan> that reminds me of DupDog.
02:21:15 <Moon_> p.s. that prints 'Baa'
02:21:40 <Moon_> im making the proof of concept
02:24:11 <Moon_> i forgot how to compare strings in C++, isn't it native in C++11?
02:28:46 * oerjan appreciates people using C++ as that means that cannot possibly expect him to help.
02:28:53 <oerjan> *that they
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02:29:13 <oerjan> . o O ( maybe i'm overdoing this )
02:31:47 <zzo38> At least in C you can use strcmp
02:32:02 <zzo38> It might be usable in C++ as well but I don't know what is the "proper" way to do it in C++
02:32:35 <shachaf> C++11 is TG
02:35:35 <oerjan> `? TG
02:35:36 <HackEgo> TG is short for Turing-Gödel, the highest possible level of difficulty for a multiplayer game. At this level, it's undecidable whether you can manage to halt before losing or not.
02:37:32 <shachaf> too good
02:37:42 <oerjan> i know.
02:38:09 <shachaf> i mean that that definition is too good
02:38:19 <oerjan> i know.
02:38:36 <Moon_> http://pastebin.com/DXtcpvpC wont work right, compile it for yourself, idk
02:38:41 <shachaf> and by too i mean also
02:38:42 <Moon_> its giving the wrong info
02:38:43 <Moon_> any
02:38:49 <Moon_> any help is appriciated
02:41:14 <oerjan> does compare just test for equality, or does it give less than/greater than?
02:41:37 <Moon_> equality
02:42:01 <Moon_> oh i see what i did
02:42:14 <Moon_> i forgot to compare the return value *facedesk*
02:42:33 <oerjan> fancy
02:43:12 <oerjan> also, i suspect it should be >= 54
02:43:40 <Moon_> IT WORKS
02:43:41 * oerjan contradicts himself too much today
02:43:44 <Moon_> yeh
02:43:50 <shachaf> oerjan: C++is kind of fun
02:44:08 <shachaf> you should try writing HList in C++
02:44:17 <oerjan> O KAY
02:47:27 <shachaf> it's fun
02:47:49 <Moon_> for those who wana try my mini lang: http://pastebin.com/Hs6fzpLj
02:47:51 <shachaf> everything has to be recursive functions
02:48:00 <Moon_> have the PoC
02:48:20 <Moon_> mhm
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02:55:54 <Moon_> *silence*
02:56:04 <Moon_> hello?
03:02:16 <Moon_> emptyness, i has question
03:06:20 <oerjan> *chirp*
03:06:33 <Moon_> yey
03:06:44 <Moon_> what do you think of my first time project?
03:07:16 <oerjan> it's rather simple.
03:08:14 <oerjan> we have an esolang Deadfish that is almost as simple, and it's popular for writing interpreters in _other_ esolangs in.
03:08:18 <oerjan> *for
03:08:34 <oerjan> *in other esolangs for
03:08:51 <Moon_> im adding multivariableness
03:08:55 <Moon_> 256 counter
03:18:05 <Moon_> oerjan, are you gonna yell at me over the character table? ;-;
03:19:22 <Moon_> *crickets*
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03:27:31 <oerjan> nah.
03:28:05 <Moon_> thanks
03:28:26 <Moon_> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=157740.msg6952255#msg6952255
03:28:32 <Moon_> is why i said that
03:30:53 <oerjan> Moon_: um, shouldn't that be '\n'
03:31:02 <Moon_> ?
03:31:08 <Moon_> wrong way?
03:31:37 <oerjan> it's usually \n afaik
03:31:58 <oerjan> not sure how '/n' would even compile
03:32:12 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ?
03:32:18 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: How would /n compile?
03:32:23 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, it's a bug in a real language?
03:32:31 <oerjan> http://pastebin.com/Hs6fzpLj has '/n' in it.
03:33:21 <Moon_> hp, i followed your advice and made my first experimental interpreter: http://pastebin.com/Hi2EkAzU
03:34:29 <Moon_> it has 256 possible counters
03:34:33 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Um, else if?
03:34:42 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: Efficiency?
03:34:56 <Moon_> im lazy and forgetful, and for PoC, bah efficiency
03:35:00 <oerjan> Moon_: i suggest you check what happens if you try to print a newline.
03:35:03 <Moon_> for realworld
03:35:07 <Moon_> no
03:35:09 <Moon_> crash?
03:35:25 <oerjan> i haven't tested, but that '/n' freaks me out.
03:35:54 <oerjan> i don't understand why it's even allowed as a char literal.
03:36:05 <Moon_> its the newline code
03:36:35 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: No, it isn't
03:36:42 <hppavilion[1]> Moon_: The newline code is \n
03:36:58 <Moon_> oops
03:37:32 <Moon_> the / dissapears at '/n'
03:37:35 <Moon_> kk..
03:45:44 <oerjan> sheesh, just today i noticed they'd started removing the winter gravel from the roads around here. and now it's snowing again.
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03:45:54 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
03:45:55 <lambdabot> ENVA 230150Z 24011KT 9999 VCSH FEW006 SCT014TCU BKN019 01/M02 Q1013 RMK WIND 670FT 25011KT
03:46:20 <oerjan> oh well, presumably it'll melt in daytime.
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03:48:29 <hppavilion[1]> IDEA
03:48:56 <hppavilion[1]> A golfing programming language where instructions are the names of fictional persons
03:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> Shortest code in characters wins.
03:49:18 * hppavilion[1] quietly takes oerjan's swatter
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04:04:20 <hppavilion[1]> `ghost
04:04:36 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ghost: not found
04:10:05 * oerjan quietly ties hppavilion[1]'s shoelaces together
04:10:25 * oerjan then moves just beyond reach
04:11:06 <hppavilion[1]> ..................................................-_-
04:11:30 <MDude> `host
04:11:34 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: host: not found
04:11:37 <MDude> `most
04:11:38 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: most: not found
04:11:42 <MDude> Hmmm
04:11:47 <MDude> `toast
04:11:48 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: toast: not found
04:12:01 <oerjan> `post
04:12:02 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: post: not found
04:12:06 <hppavilion[1]> `roast
04:12:07 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: roast: not found
04:12:19 <oerjan> `boast
04:12:20 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: boast: not found
04:20:50 <hppavilion[1]> `grossed
04:20:51 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: grossed: not found
04:26:55 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I looked into eden of the east. The Wikipedia overview doesn't seem to be related at all, so I suppose it's possible I found the wrong anime (which would be weird, given the name)
04:34:52 <\oren\> `coast
04:34:52 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: coast: not found
04:36:09 <\oren\> `roast
04:36:12 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: roast: not found
04:41:47 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: roast has been done
04:42:10 <hppavilion[1]> NEW RULE: Any HackEgo commands that are tried that don't work (even as the result of a typo) must be implemented.
04:42:17 <hppavilion[1]> >:)
04:52:29 <oerjan> `/bin/goodluck
04:52:29 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /bin/goodluck: No such file or directory
04:55:34 <oerjan> `.. let's see how that goes.
04:55:35 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ..: cannot execute: Is a directory
04:57:20 <hppavilion[1]> Huh.
04:57:41 <hppavilion[1]> fibo_p+1 = 0 is conjectured to always yield prime numbers for prime p
04:58:49 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, mod p
04:59:08 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, no, it's a primality test
04:59:49 <oerjan> your notation is confusing
05:00:37 <oerjan> do you mean fib(p+1) `mod` p == 0 ?
05:01:46 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yes
05:02:12 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I kind of screwed up explaining it
05:02:34 <hppavilion[1]> It's conjectured that fib(p+1)%p = 0 -> prime(p)
05:04:14 <oerjan> > let fib=1:2:zipWith(+)fib(tail fib) in elemIndices 0 $ zipWith mod fib [1..]
05:04:15 <lambdabot> [0,1,2,6,12,16,22,36,42,46,52,66,72,82,96,102,106,112,126,136,156,162,166,17...
05:04:51 <\oren\> there should be a corresponfding concept of "improbable prime"
05:04:53 <oerjan> > let fib=1:2:zipWith(+)fib(tail fib) in (+1) <$> elemIndices 0 $ zipWith mod fib [1..]
05:04:54 <lambdabot> No instance for (Num [Int]) arising from a use of ‘+’
05:04:54 <lambdabot> In the first argument of ‘(<$>)’, namely ‘(+ 1)’
05:04:54 <lambdabot> In the expression: (+ 1) <$> elemIndices 0
05:05:07 <oerjan> > let fib=1:2:zipWith(+)fib(tail fib) in (+1) <$> elemIndices 0 (zipWith mod fib [1..])
05:05:09 <lambdabot> [1,2,3,7,13,17,23,37,43,47,53,67,73,83,97,103,107,113,127,137,157,163,167,17...
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05:05:28 <oerjan> well it's definitely not _all_ primes
05:06:32 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well duh
05:06:49 <oerjan> a priori it could have been.
05:07:46 <\oren\> an improbable prime is anumber generated in such a way that it is possibly a prime but less likely than if you picked a number at random
05:07:50 <hppavilion[1]> "Politician Primes" are primes divisible by integers i : self > i > 1
05:08:03 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: i
05:08:11 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: That is THE random number
05:09:44 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Wait, doesn't that make all primes improbable if you choose the right algorithm?
05:10:30 <\oren\> theoretically yes.
05:11:16 <\oren\> but usually these terms apply to very large numbers
05:13:58 <hppavilion[1]> Could someone factor 649567105277837809 for me real quick?
05:15:28 <zzo38> Why do you need the factors?
05:15:55 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: ...No reason?
05:15:58 <FireFly> [ q: 649567105277837809
05:15:59 <j-bot> FireFly: 797003653 815011453
05:16:09 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Impressive.
05:16:12 <FireFly> [ q: 649567105277837809x
05:16:13 <j-bot> FireFly: 797003653 815011453
05:16:15 <FireFly> oh okay
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05:17:36 <hppavilion[1]> MATH+PHYSICS YO MAMA JOKE INCOMING: Yo mama so fat, her gravity makes the graph of pi(x) slope downward
05:18:01 <hppavilion[1]> Is there such a concept as "Antiprime"?
05:18:23 <FireFly> <\oren\> an improbable prime is anumber generated in such a way that it is possibly a prime but less likely than if you picked a number at random ← so e.g. an even number?
05:18:48 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
05:18:48 <hppavilion[1]> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/HighlyCompositeNumber.html
05:18:54 <FireFly> It's so improbable the probability approaches 0, even
05:19:44 <hppavilion[1]> So pi++(x) is the difference of the primes below it and the HCNs below it. PROBLEM: Does pi++(x) ever slope downwards?
05:19:55 <hppavilion[1]> ANSWER: Yes, definitely, because 1 is an HCN
05:19:59 <hppavilion[1]> Well, that was fast.
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05:32:44 <myname> yo mama's so fat, the ratio between her circumference and her diameter is 4
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05:48:10 <oerjan> myname: is that even possible for a convex figure?
05:50:42 <myname> depends on how you define diameter
05:51:23 <oerjan> i'd define it as the supremum of distance between pairs of points in the figure
05:51:56 <myname> that'll be hard
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06:38:53 <hppavilion[1]> `learnyouahaskell
06:39:14 <hppavilion[1]> myname: OOOOOOOOOH
06:39:37 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: learnyouahaskell: not found
06:40:12 <hppavilion[1]> learn you a brainfuck for nefarious evil
06:49:16 <hppavilion[1]> `? Augmented Backus-Naur Form
06:49:21 <hppavilion[1]> `? ABNF
06:49:38 <HackEgo> Augmented Backus-Naur Form? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
06:49:39 <HackEgo> ABNF? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
06:51:00 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn ABNF/Augmented Backus-Naur Form, an update on the popular Backus-Naur Form programming language, introduces support for "Augmented Production", e.g. `foo +::= bar`
06:51:06 <HackEgo> Learned «abnf»
06:51:20 <myname> wat
06:51:38 <myname> how is that different to foo ::= foo bar?
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06:53:59 <zzo38> If it is not different then it is just an abbreviation, but I don't know what it is.
06:54:12 <hppavilion[1]> myname: It's a joke.
06:54:23 <hppavilion[1]> myname: It's making fun of scientific journalism
06:54:45 <hppavilion[1]> myname: You'll notice that it refers to BNF as a "Programming Language"
06:55:13 <hppavilion[1]> Is there an alternative to BNF that uses composition of primitive grammar rules?
07:00:38 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn ABNF/Augmented Backus-Naur Form, an update on the popular Backus-Naur Form programming language, introduces support for "Augmented Production", e.g. `foo +::= bar`. The older `::=` syntax will continue to be supported for orthogonal-compatibility purposes.
07:00:52 <HackEgo> Relearned «abnf»
07:02:08 <oerjan> . o O ( Demented Backus-Naur form )
07:02:44 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Also, %::=
07:03:39 <oerjan> :t (%::=)
07:03:40 <lambdabot> Not in scope: ‘%::=’
07:03:56 <oerjan> lens is still missing a few things, i see
07:04:23 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, is %::= in Lens too?
07:04:35 * hppavilion[1] quietly googles lens
07:04:42 * hppavilion[1] does things very quietly today
07:12:17 <b_jonas> `? goto
07:12:18 <HackEgo> goto? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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07:16:21 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] no, i said it was missing.
07:16:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:17:01 <dr_fizzie> oerjan: What exactly is the HackEgo wikilink?
07:17:37 -!- dr_fizzie has changed nick to fizzie.
07:17:39 <fizzie> (A day or so of that is probably plenty.)
07:19:31 <oerjan> fizzie: um, dead?
07:20:22 <oerjan> as in, there were no announcements for recent edits
07:20:50 <fizzie> Ohhhh, *that* thing
07:20:59 <fizzie> I was thinking hyperlinks.
07:21:21 <fizzie> Yeah, that's plausible. It's pretty brittle.
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07:43:24 <fizzie> Huh. The three-finger-tap middle button emulation has stopped working, I can't paste the magic commands to fix it.
07:45:07 <fizzie> Oh, right, screen. Why don't I ever remember that.
07:45:10 <fizzie> Should be back up.
07:45:17 <fizzie> (Purely in theory.)
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07:45:54 <fizzie> Also that ^.
07:50:22 <oerjan> ^botsnack
07:50:22 <fungot> Oh nom nom nom!
07:50:30 <Sgeo_> With floating point addition, a+b, if b is less than half of the next representable number after a, then it's = a, right? Else, it's higher than a?
07:50:35 <Sgeo_> What about when a = MAX_FLOAT?
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09:43:04 <impomatic> int-e: thanks, I've fixed that. (but I need to check again).
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12:39:40 <b_jonas> afternoon
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13:30:20 <boily> time for xenialification.
13:30:26 <boily> @wn xenial
13:30:27 <lambdabot> No match for "xenial".
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14:16:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Evil]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46809&oldid=46715 * LegionMammal978 * (+1) /* Commands */
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14:34:02 <impomatic> int-e: I'm going to flip the true / false values. The doc I got true = 0x00 / false = 0xFF from is wrong.
14:34:46 <int-e> impomatic: oh didn't see that.
14:37:02 <impomatic> Every other word is tested / working. I botched U< by making a last minute change.
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14:42:15 <\oren\> which language has negative numbers written like _1 instead of -1?
14:43:37 * gamemanj immediately resolves to create a language with that feature just to add ambiguity
14:50:56 <impomatic> int-e: fixed now :-)
15:00:49 <b_jonas> \oren\: J
15:01:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: older APL-likes have negative numbers written with an overbar before the number instead.
15:02:55 <b_jonas> \oren\: I think some punch-card based languages actually put the overbar on the same column as the number
15:03:13 <b_jonas> or maybe it was a minus sign rather than an overbar
15:03:28 <b_jonas> for when the minus sign is just column 11
15:04:15 <b_jonas> nah, I probably misremember that punch card part, because I can't find it in http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/cardint.htm
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15:21:28 <boily> impellomatic, int-ello, he\\oren\, b_jónapotkívánokas
15:21:50 * boily gamellomanjies gamemanj
15:22:14 <gamemanj> boily: ?
15:23:04 <tswett> Do me next!
15:24:04 <boily> tswellott!
15:28:53 <tswett> Why, ahoily!
15:46:48 <b_jonas> hi, boily
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16:11:05 <boily> > 28.35 * 12
16:11:07 <lambdabot> 340.20000000000005
16:11:15 <boily> > 28.35 * 16
16:11:17 <lambdabot> 453.6
16:11:37 <boily> so 16 ounces in a pound, but 20 ounces in a pint. yay.
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16:41:00 <Moon_> Hia
16:42:34 <boily> Mhelloon_!
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16:45:32 <Moon_> Hi
16:45:59 <Moon_> http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=157749.0 , im still learning to make interpreters
16:53:05 <int-e> `? corium
16:53:34 <int-e> HackEgo: wake up!
16:54:23 <HackEgo> corium? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:55:57 <int-e> `learn Corium is the material that a nuclear reactor's core dump is made of.
16:56:13 <HackEgo> Learned 'corium': Corium is the material that a nuclear reactor's core dump is made of.
16:56:29 <int-e> (it's funny because it's true, cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corium_%28nuclear_reactor%29 )
17:00:27 <boily> I thought it was a simple pun (0.85 shachafs), but it's true. tmyk.
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17:03:25 <Moon_> `? moon
17:03:28 <HackEgo> The Moon is an unprovable celestial object that is not very retroreflectorey.
17:03:53 <Moon_> `learn moon is a person, not an object
17:03:58 <HackEgo> Relearned 'moon': moon is a person, not an object
17:04:11 <Moon_> `? moon
17:04:13 <HackEgo> moon is a person, not an object
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17:12:13 <Moon_> `? moon
17:12:15 <HackEgo> moon is a person, not an object
17:20:33 <boily> `le/rn moon/Moon is a person, not an unretroreflectorey object.
17:20:44 <HackEgo> Relearned «moon»
17:21:28 <Moon_> `? hackego
17:21:30 <HackEgo> HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in Mexico!
17:21:45 <Moon_> `help
17:21:45 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
17:22:05 <Moon_> `<command>
17:22:06 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: <command>: not found
17:22:46 <Moon_> `ls
17:22:48 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ !\.´ \ (* \ 99 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ equations \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ foo \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls_dev \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ply-3.8.tar.gz \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ secret.txt \ share \ src \ things_with_hg_in_them_in_
17:23:30 <boily> Moon_: you should peruse the PDF in the topic ↑
17:23:44 <boily> (it has things! and stuff! and explanations!)
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17:24:43 <Moon_> someone wrote that they recommend hax0ring it, so that what ill do
17:25:02 <Moon_> del
17:25:05 <Moon_> `del
17:25:05 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: del: not found
17:25:11 <Moon_> `rm
17:25:13 <HackEgo> rm: missing operand \ Try `rm --help' for more information.
17:25:19 <Moon_> `rm -help
17:25:20 <HackEgo> rm: invalid option -- 'h' \ Try `rm --help' for more information.
17:25:28 <Moon_> `rm --help
17:25:28 <HackEgo> Usage: rm [OPTION]... FILE... \ Remove (unlink) the FILE(s). \ \ -f, --force ignore nonexistent files, never prompt \ -i prompt before every removal \ -I prompt once before removing more than three files, or \ when removing recursively. Less intrusive than -i, \
17:25:53 <Moon_> `cd ibin
17:25:54 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found
17:26:01 <Moon_> `help
17:26:01 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
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17:27:42 <Moon_> `path
17:27:43 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: path: not found
17:27:52 <Moon_> `rm lib
17:27:53 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `lib': Is a directory
17:28:15 <Moon_> we stil have reverts to work on if i manage to break it
17:28:24 <Moon_> `vi secret.txt
17:29:03 <Moon_> `edit secret.txt
17:29:10 <Moon_> `ls
17:29:25 <Moon_> did i do a thing?
17:29:26 <HackEgo> Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ [1;24r[?25h[?8c[?25h[?0c[27m[24m[0m[H[J[?25l[?1c[24;1H"secret.txt" 5 lines, 190 characters[1;1H/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ipfrag_secret_interval
17:29:34 <HackEgo> Warning: unknown mime-type for "secret.txt" -- using "application/octet-stream" \ Error: no "edit" mailcap rules found for type "application/octet-stream"
17:29:34 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ !\.´ \ (* \ 99 \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ close \ *) \ Complaints.mp3 \ :-D \ dog \ emoticons \ equations \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ foo \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls_dev \ misle \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ply-3.8.tar.gz \ quine \ quines \ quotes \ secret.txt \ share \ src \ things_with_hg_in_them_in_
17:29:59 <Moon_> `view secret.txt
17:30:02 <gamemanj> interactive programs + that bot == disaster
17:30:30 <HackEgo> Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal \ [1;24r[?25h[?8c[?25h[?0c[27m[24m[0m[H[J[?25l[?1c[24;1H"secret.txt" [readonly] 5 lines, 190 characters[1;1H/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ipfrag_secret_interval
17:30:51 <gamemanj> If you want to view a file, it's easier just to browse the mercurial repository
17:30:51 <Moon_> how do i found out what is in secret.txt
17:30:52 <gamemanj> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi
17:30:59 <int-e> `? canary
17:31:03 <HackEgo> ​*tsjørp*
17:31:05 <gamemanj> For short files, just do this:
17:31:07 <int-e> `cat cat
17:31:08 <HackEgo> Meow~~ >^.^<
17:31:10 <gamemanj> `cat secret.txt
17:31:11 <HackEgo> ​/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ipfrag_secret_interval \ /proc/sys/net/ipv6/ip6frag_secret_interval \ /hackenv/secret.txt \ /usr/share/man/man3/key_setsecret.3.gz \ /usr/share/man/man3/key_secretkey_is_set.3.gz
17:31:18 <gamemanj> ...well that's useless
17:33:31 <Moon_> new gamemanj.txt
17:33:36 <Moon_> `new gamemanj.txt
17:33:37 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: new: not found
17:33:43 <Moon_> im bad at linux
17:33:53 <gamemanj> Moon_, stop trying interactive commands
17:33:56 <gamemanj> they won't work
17:34:02 <Moon_> `cd bin
17:34:02 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found
17:34:06 <gamemanj> ...
17:34:08 -!- Elronnd has changed nick to earenndil.
17:34:14 -!- earenndil has changed nick to Elronnd.
17:34:43 <Moon_> `rm secret.txt
17:35:00 <gamemanj> ......
17:35:13 <HackEgo> No output.
17:36:19 <Moon_> `echo i can still echo at you
17:36:21 <HackEgo> i can still echo at you
17:37:10 <int-e> fungot: can *you* echo?
17:37:10 <fungot> int-e: not really cd
17:37:23 <int-e> pity
17:39:06 <gamemanj> ^echo Fill in this: Echo, ______, _____.
17:39:06 <fungot> Fill in this: Echo, ______, _____.
17:39:09 <gamemanj> there
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17:41:28 <rdococ> ^echo yay
17:41:28 <fungot> yay
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17:42:59 <int-e> Echo, fungot, moon_.
17:42:59 <fungot> int-e: ( what i meant) and extra return va' te fnord com a sua lingua fnord!"
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17:43:35 <int-e> `thanks echo
17:43:38 <HackEgo> Thanks, echo. Thecho.
17:47:28 -!- Moon_ has joined.
18:00:07 <Moon_> `rm secret.txt
18:00:08 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `secret.txt': No such file or directory
18:01:45 -!- hydraz has changed nick to ban.
18:02:00 -!- ban has changed nick to hydraz.
18:08:34 <gamemanj> `echo ^echo `echo ^echo Hello World
18:08:35 <HackEgo> ​^echo `echo ^echo Hello World
18:08:52 <gamemanj> ^echo `echo Hello World
18:08:53 <fungot> `echo Hello World
18:08:53 <HackEgo> Hello World
18:11:30 <gamemanj> ^echo `echo Hello Fungot
18:11:30 <fungot> `echo Hello Fungot
18:11:34 <HackEgo> Hello Fungot
18:11:53 <gamemanj> ^echo `echo Hello fungot
18:11:53 <fungot> `echo Hello fungot
18:11:54 <HackEgo> Hello fungot
18:13:31 <fizzie> There's an ignore list, sorry.
18:13:33 <fizzie> ^ignore
18:13:33 <fungot> ^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE|Sparkbot|optbot|lambdabot|oonbotti|metasepia|ruddy|preflex|evalj|idris-bot|passwordBOT|jconn|applybot|blsqbot|fnordbot)!
18:13:43 <fizzie> A very historical one, but still.
18:15:08 <gamemanj> well, it's for the best
18:15:39 <gamemanj> define and the fact that HackEgo is a whole VM controllable via bot means that botloops are rather easy to set up without one
18:17:20 <gamemanj> time for a longshot
18:17:39 <gamemanj> ^define gamemanj-ab bf ++++++++[>++++>++++++++++<<-]++++++++++>>---><<<.>>><[->+>+<<]>+++.++.---------.+++++++++++++.---------.++++++.------------.<<.>>.------.++++++++++++.--------.++++++++.------------.+++++++++++++.----.<<.>>----------------.+++++++.+++++++++++.++++.--------.-------.<<.>>+.+++.+++++++++++++++.-------------------.<<<.>>>
18:17:51 <gamemanj> ^gamemanj-ab
18:18:40 <gamemanj> ok, said longshot was a complete failure
18:18:53 <gamemanj> in other news the sky is blue
18:25:35 <rdococ> really? right now it's grey
18:31:09 <gamemanj> Actually, rewrite that.
18:31:16 <gamemanj> I just looked out and tried to see the sky.
18:31:21 <gamemanj> Current colour is BLINDING.
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18:32:13 <gamemanj> Note to future self. Take out insurance on the usability of my eyes. It'll probably pay up pretty quickly if these days keep up.
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18:34:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Headache]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46810&oldid=45034 * LegionMammal978 * (+13) /* Links */
18:34:50 <myname> is headache like a mild version of bf?
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18:35:36 <gamemanj> Oh, BTW, if this client suddenly disappears anytime before 9 PM in a way that suggests a crash, blame hwmon0 not exposing any fans so I can't crank them up to maximum. So the system might just overheat. I hate summer.
18:36:31 <gamemanj> Though, TBH, they might be on maximum. I have no idea. Is there a way to just, IDK, hibernate through the warmer months?
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19:41:29 <Phantom_Hoover> nope, that didn't work
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19:50:06 <gamemanj> Good news, this sudden disconnection brought to you by Network Malfunction (not Thermal Overheating)
19:51:04 <\oren\> Get an air con
19:53:08 <int-e> gamemanj: maybe the network equipment overheated
19:53:45 <gamemanj> No, the network equipment isn't that bad - it doesn't have a seemingly-ineffective fan.
19:54:10 <gamemanj> This laptop, OTOH...
19:54:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:54:40 <int-e> I was trying to come up with the best of two worlds (thermal failure, network failure, why not have them both...)
19:54:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
19:55:31 <gamemanj> ...that's even worse. Anyway, future unintentional network difficulties should not continue. Intentional ones, on the part of certain safety-overobsessed people, will continue.
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20:31:37 <impomatic> Stack Exchange is annoying. Someone asks a question and most responses are 1) suggestions how to ask the question better, 2) answers that are obviously not what's required but the person answering spotted a loophole in the question and answered based on that, 3) someone who doesn't understand the question Googled and answered with something irrelevant :-(
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20:38:27 <int-e> you had me convinced after "Stack Exchange is annoying."
20:41:44 <impomatic> int-e: they're discussing how to count the size of Box-256 solutions here http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/77795/box-256-assembly-big-square-ii and here http://meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/9012/how-to-score-box-256-answers
20:44:17 <impomatic> I think it's tending towards "count the lines with instructions, but not lines which are only data" in which case every challenge would be won by the same 3 lines of code by just varying the data.
20:45:37 <int-e> I think the LOC output by the executable is just fine... and not counting data would be stupid
20:45:58 <int-e> (if you enter instructions as bytes, do they count?)
20:47:50 <impomatic> int-e: even that was under discussion!
20:48:43 <int-e> impomatic: you know this xkcd, don't you: http://xkcd.com/386/
20:48:50 <gamemanj> Step 1, write interpreter for language more trivial than problem, step 2, include program that does anything required, step 3, win.
20:49:52 * impomatic is often guilty of staying up late because someone's wrong on the Internet :-D
20:49:54 <int-e> btw I've wondered how big a universal box-256 program would be, i.e. one that enumerates all possible screen configurations...
20:50:29 <int-e> (it's not as easy as it could be because you can't read from the screen)
20:50:51 <int-e> and of course it's of purely theoretical value
21:02:48 <impomatic> int-e: 0xA LOC for a universal box-256
21:03:20 <impomatic> Let me just calculate how long it will run for!
21:04:30 <shachaf> Oh, they added new targets to box-256
21:04:51 <impomatic> shachaf: and you can create your own puzzles :-)
21:05:24 <shachaf> How?
21:05:32 <shachaf> Oh, and you can turn your solution into a URL.
21:05:46 <shachaf> And it shows the palette on the main page. TG
21:06:32 <shachaf> Oh, and there are new instructions.
21:07:26 <impomatic> shachaf: the URL thing shares the target, not your code (I think)
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21:22:14 <impomatic> int-e: 3e+608 years
21:23:46 <hppavilion[1]> impomatic: So 4958.146055109299 years?
21:23:55 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-loud
21:23:55 <lambdabot> oerjan said 14h 7m 33s ago: no, i said it was missing.
21:24:18 <int-e> impomatic: nice!
21:24:30 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Pffft. It's only 5 millenia
21:24:31 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: ...
21:24:40 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: you are being silly, right?
21:24:56 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: No, I was making a point about the stupidity of e-notation
21:25:04 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: so you are being silly.
21:25:06 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: ESPECIALLY when you include the + sign
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21:25:33 <impomatic> Sorry, I meant 3E+608 years (or 3*10^608 years)
21:25:43 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: No, I was making a deep point about the futility of human existence and the almost insurmountable bay of understanding we must cross to communicate
21:26:12 <hppavilion[1]> impomatic: Yes, I got that. But the e is usually lowercase
21:26:50 <hppavilion[1]> . o O ( Blackboard bold should be a font, not individual characters )
21:28:03 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: So yes, silly.
21:28:34 <hppavilion[1]> `? ABNF
21:29:01 <HackEgo> Augmented Backus-Naur Form, an update on the popular Backus-Naur Form programming language, introduces support for "Augmented Production", e.g. `foo +::= bar`. The older `::=` syntax will continue to be supported for orthogonal-compatibility purposes.
21:29:05 <hppavilion[1]> ^ My favourite wisdom entry to date out of the ones I've created
21:47:12 <\oren\> 𝕒𝕓𝕔𝕕𝕖𝕗𝕘𝕙𝕚𝕛𝕜𝕝𝕞𝕟𝕠𝕡𝕢𝕣𝕤𝕥𝕦𝕧𝕨𝕩𝕪𝕫
21:47:15 <\oren\> 𝟘𝟙𝟚𝟛𝟜𝟝𝟞𝟟𝟠𝟡
21:47:50 <impomatic> int-e: http://pastebin.com/44PuPrKB
21:48:56 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yes, and?
21:49:10 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: What if I want BB + or BB Aleph?
21:49:30 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Or BB diacritics?
21:50:21 <impomatic> I can solve every BOX-256 problem in ten lines of code. The only problem is it will take 3*10^608 years.
21:50:54 <hppavilion[1]> impomatic: How could you possibly solve an arbitrary problem in 10 lines of code?
21:51:03 <hppavilion[1]> impomatic: Or are ALL the problems solvable in 10 lines?
21:51:05 <Phantom_Hoover> depends on how long the lines are
21:51:15 <int-e> impomatic: yay
21:51:25 <Phantom_Hoover> impomatic, cycling through every possible framebuffer?
21:51:30 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: each encodes one instruction or 4 bytes of data, your choice
21:51:37 <\oren\> Unicode contains BB greek letter I havent done them yet though
21:51:41 <impomatic> Yes, cycling through every possible solution
21:52:46 <impomatic> By the way, some of my short solutions store 32 bits per line of code or use RLE compression.
21:52:49 <\oren\> instead of e notation you can use ⏨ like 3.67⏨3
21:53:08 <\oren\> `unicode ⏨
21:53:18 <impomatic> That unicode character doesn't display here
21:53:21 <HackEgo> U+23E8 DECIMAL EXPONENT SYMBOL \ UTF-8: e2 8f a8 UTF-16BE: 23e8 Decimal: &#9192; \ ⏨ \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
21:53:26 <hppavilion[1]> I should learn to use Git via the command line
21:53:33 <\oren\> impomatic: you need a better font
21:53:37 <hppavilion[1]> It'll make me feel like a good person.
21:53:51 <\oren\> git has a terrible interface
21:54:07 <hppavilion[1]> impomatic: We recommend neoletters. It totally has nothing to do with nespotism.
21:54:37 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: How so?
21:54:50 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Should I use svn or mercurial instead?
21:56:47 <zzo38> I use Fossil
21:57:25 <zzo38> It is sometimes said that Fossil is better for cathedral-style and git is good for bazaar-style, although you can see what you like. (I find fossil is easier to set up and use too)
21:57:48 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: What are bazaar and cathedral? I have not heard such terms before.
21:57:55 <hppavilion[1]> (the styles; I know what they are IRL)
21:58:30 <gamemanj> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar
21:58:32 <\oren\> I like mercurial
21:59:03 <\oren\> but usually I just use datestamped folders
22:02:19 <gamemanj> hmm... if you're using datestamped folders, maybe tar them all up then gzip the result
22:02:44 <\oren\> I do that when it gets too big (which usually never happens)
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22:05:00 <impomatic> int-e: not everyone agrees unfortunately :-(
22:05:58 <int-e> impomatic: I didn't expect this to be accepted :P
22:06:24 <int-e> it was really more of an intellectual challenge, especially since it's very likely that we can do better.
22:06:52 <impomatic> It appears the person who asked the question will declare anyone who comes up with a 2-3 instruction (+24 lines of data) answer the winner.
22:06:52 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
22:07:19 <int-e> oh, that discussion...
22:07:32 <int-e> I could hardly care less. See that xkcd comic.
22:07:54 <impomatic> No-one suggested removing the JMP @00 yet (and arranging the data so the first byte in each line is an invalid opcode)
22:08:27 <int-e> impomatic: eww that will be tricky to pull off.
22:08:53 <int-e> (I did think of that)
22:08:55 <impomatic> No, not tricky. Everything above about 0x90 is an invalid opcode.
22:09:13 <int-e> yes, tricky, because the addressing into the array becomes harder.
22:09:49 <int-e> (and you cannot afford to use one byte per pixel)
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22:15:00 <impomatic> int-e: 2 instruction solution by crazy scoring method http://pastebin.com/XgmuRhtE
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22:16:31 <int-e> impomatic: oh, I'm still discussing the wrong problem
22:17:06 <int-e> I really don't care for that scoring method, nor the discussion about it. I do care about the enumeration of all possible screen configurations.
22:18:28 <int-e> impomatic: but clearly you should suggest a 1 line solution whose first instruction is a MOV @05 @04 0FC
22:18:33 <int-e> just to drive the point home.
22:18:52 <int-e> (you can even have a proper loop again)
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22:33:17 <int-e> impomatic: proof of concept: http://sprunge.us/IfWF (pixel data goes to 00C ff.)
22:35:24 -!- boily has joined.
22:35:56 <int-e> (don't give me credit for that)
22:38:12 <impomatic> I've given you credit for prompting me to code the universal solution https://www.reddit.com/r/box256/comments/4g5e6r/universal_box256_solution_solves_all_challenges/
22:38:17 <impomatic> Hope that's okay?
22:38:22 <int-e> that's fine
22:40:01 <boily> test test test...
22:40:11 <boily> oh well. still no italics.
22:41:54 <lambda-11235> If anyone's interested in a simple, esoteric, badly documented, typed language with bad error reporting here it is https://github.com/lambda-11235/ttyped.
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22:42:43 <lambda-11235> It also doesn't actually run/compile code. It only type checks it.
22:42:48 <boily> hllabda-11235! did you put it on the Wiki?
22:43:02 <boily> s/hllabda/hellambda/
22:43:31 <boily> . o O ( there definitely is somethig wrong with font tracking and kerning since that upgrade... )
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22:48:44 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Bazaar seems better for me
22:50:22 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: OK
22:50:37 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Is SVN or Hg better for that IYE?
22:51:48 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:52:13 <zzo38> I don't know; I only use Fossil (which is still usable for bazaar, although it is said that it works better for cathedral). I would hope other people can know! Alternatively (or in addition), you can look up the information and documentation of SVN and Hg and whatever, and figure out by yourself.
22:52:31 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Ah
22:55:12 <hppavilion[1]> Well, bitbucket doesn't support SVN it looks like
22:55:18 <hppavilion[1]> And SVN doesn't seem to have branches...
22:55:45 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, mercurial is Python
22:56:14 <Marcela_Gandara> hola quien habla español?
22:56:39 <zzo38> Marcela_Gandara: Please try a different channel for Spanish
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23:00:55 <hppavilion[1]> I guess mercurial it is
23:01:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttyped]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46811 * * (+901) Created page with "TType is a simple typed language, consisting of only function definitions. It is '''losely''' based on System F. It consists entirely of a series of function definitions. Each..."
23:02:12 <hppavilion[1]> Marcela_Gandara:
23:02:12 <hppavilion[1]> No somos un canal de habla española. Aquí nadie habla española. Por favor, tratar de encontrar manualmente el canal que estaba buscando. Nosotros no podemos ayudar.
23:03:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ttyped]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46812&oldid=46811 * * (+62)
23:04:07 <Marcela_Gandara> :'(
23:05:25 -!- jaboja has joined.
23:11:44 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:14:50 -!- oerjan has set topic: Recommended by pi out of 5 doctors! | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Ho Chi Minh City (not Saigon).
23:18:56 <oerjan> <boily> @wn xenial <-- bhoily. it's like denial but more alien hth
23:20:02 <hppavilion[1]> Someone should write a VCS in an esolang. I recommend that said esolang is 2Ducks
23:20:11 <hppavilion[1]> Because confusion
23:20:27 <Marcela_Gandara> :-(
23:20:35 <hppavilion[1]> There would be an entire command meaning "I don't know how to fix this bug, so retrieve a future revision in which it is fixed"
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23:37:37 <oerjan> whoever wrote freenode's /list implementation needs a whack upside the head. i did _not_ ask for all channels.
23:39:00 <oerjan> (trying vainly to find a spanish channel other than #canaima-social)
23:39:56 <int-e> there is a ##espanol
23:42:26 <oerjan> int-e: right i found that.
23:42:51 <oerjan> Marcela_Gandara: you might try to ask in ##espanol. it is not a social channel but they should understand you at least.
23:43:17 -!- Marcela_Gandara has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
23:43:28 <int-e> excellent timing :-(
23:43:35 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
23:43:52 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!canaima@*.
23:44:32 -!- Marcela_Gandara has joined.
23:44:48 <oerjan> dammit
23:45:00 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*canaima@*.
23:45:09 <oerjan> Marcela_Gandara: i am tired of this, sorry.
23:45:27 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!canaima@*.
23:46:30 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
23:46:52 <oerjan> Marcela_Gandara: you might try to ask in ##espanol. it is not a social channel but they should understand you at least.
23:47:48 <oerjan> Marcela Gandara: usted puede tratar de preguntar en ##espanol. no es un canal social, sino que se debe entender por lo menos.
23:56:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * IAM * New user account
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