←2016-04-23 2016-04-24 2016-04-25→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:01:38 <oerjan> IAM what IAM
00:03:23 <oerjan> <gamemanj> ^echo Fill in this: Echo, ______, _____. <-- wait did he break ^echo
00:03:27 <oerjan> ^echo hi
00:03:27 <fungot> hi
00:03:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46813 * IAM * (+129) Created page with "Hello there! I'm planning to make a programming language called "Character For You." I'll link to it once I make the page for it."
00:04:23 <oerjan> ^show
00:04:23 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord prefixes tmp test celebrate wiki chr ha rainbow rainbow2 welcome me tell eval elikoski list ping def a thanks tmp2 8ball rreree rerere botsnack bf
00:04:26 <oerjan> ^show echo
00:04:27 <fungot> ,[.,]
00:04:34 <oerjan> ^reverb hm
00:04:34 <fungot> hhmm
00:06:22 <oerjan> ^def echo bf ,[.>,]<[<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.>]
00:06:22 <fungot> Defined.
00:06:27 <oerjan> ^echo test
00:06:27 <fungot> test test
00:09:38 <b_jonas> `wisdom
00:10:02 <HackEgo> cake/The Enrichment Center is required to remind you that you will be baked, and then there will be cake.
00:10:47 <oerjan> mm, cake
00:15:47 <boily> hellørjan!
00:16:10 <oerjan> . o O ( pho cake )
00:17:31 <boily> http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4456686320_df32d86479_o.jpg ?
00:17:56 <zzo38> Why did they make comments like /* ... */ in C? Now it interferes with dividing by the value read by pointer (although you can easily work-around). C++ style does not have that problem.
00:23:08 <b_jonas> zzo38: C++ style also has a problem
00:23:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: it interferes with trying to put a comment (a normal one like the prophets K&R intended, not one of the new style minus-minus or percent sign ones) after a division.
00:26:31 <Sgeo_> shachaf, did they change the appearance of drones in Prismata?
00:26:33 <zzo38> Yes it has that, although you will usually want to add at least one space before the comment in such case, or to put whatever you want to divide by immediately afterward on the same line anyways
00:26:43 <shachaf> Sgeo_: Since when?
00:26:52 <Sgeo_> Since whatever I'm used to
00:26:59 <Sgeo_> Or are there skins or something?
00:27:09 <Sgeo_> This game I'm watching eems to have Canadian drones
00:27:11 <shachaf> Oh, you can get your own drone appearance or something.
00:27:26 <shachaf> Sgeo_: We should jam.
00:27:35 <Sgeo_> I should do this new tutorial thing
00:27:47 <Sgeo_> Is there a native client these days? I should grab it
00:27:58 <shachaf> It's all Flash.
00:28:11 <shachaf> I think it won't let me challenge you because you're in a game.
00:29:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, unless what I wanted to put in a comment was the real number I'm supposed to be dividing with, but I changed it to a different number for a quick debugging test.
00:30:06 * Sgeo_ looks for the Windows client
00:30:10 <Sgeo_> I'm convinced it exists
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00:30:51 <zzo38> b_jonas: Yes there is that case.
00:31:09 <zzo38> In this case you can also work-around by putting the comment afterward instead of before.
00:31:18 <Sgeo_> shachaf, much more interested in doing the tutorial campaign than being defeated by you for a millionth time
00:31:18 <Sgeo_> http://blog.prismata.net/2016/03/10/catch-an-early-preview-of-the-prismata-desktop-build/
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00:32:36 <Sgeo_> The FAQ has a link to the Windows client
00:32:42 <Sgeo_> http://blog.prismata.net/2016/03/14/prismata-alpha-faq/
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00:39:50 <Sgeo_> Eww it uses Adobe AIR
00:41:46 <Sgeo_> Google login is only available in the web version of Prismata
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00:43:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46814&oldid=46813 * IAM * (-117) Replaced content with "Hello there!"
00:44:42 <Sgeo_> At least I'm able to add a password to my account, and that lets me log in
00:54:01 <\oren\> MUHUHAHAHAHAH! I have ANNIHILATED the ants once and for all!
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01:14:50 <boily> HE\\OREN\! MWAH AH AH AH AH!
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01:29:46 <\oren\> the great war, which we have waged with the formican menace since time immemorial, has finally been won!
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01:34:30 <boily> ant problems in your apartment/house/place of residence?
01:36:40 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh
01:37:43 <hppavilion[1]> The UC1H (United Committee of 1337 H4x0r5, which is actually programmers with a facetious name) or something should get world governments to legally define "Free Software"
01:37:49 <hppavilion[1]> And "Open Source"
01:38:07 <hppavilion[1]> Because I just stumbled across this fucking bullshit: http://www.aptana.com/
01:38:31 <hppavilion[1]> Which looks good, but I was suspicious. So I did some digging and found this: http://www.aptana.com/legal/apl.html
01:38:51 <hppavilion[1]> tl;dr, it claims to be FOSS, but you aren't allowed to redistribute it
01:39:30 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, wait, it's also under the GPL
01:40:11 <zzo38> Yes so it is dual-licensed
01:40:12 <hppavilion[1]> OK, now I'm confused
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01:40:29 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Does that mean BOTH licenses apply or that one or the other applies, depending on what you choose?
01:40:42 <hppavilion[1]> http://www.aptana.com/legal.html is making things confusing
01:40:53 <hppavilion[1]> Because it's called the "GPL-Aptana exception"
01:41:05 <hppavilion[1]> Which implies that it's the GPL EXCEPT for their special exception
01:41:49 <hppavilion[1]> My understanding is that you can just GPL it if you like
01:41:56 <hppavilion[1]> OK, fucking bullshitness revoked
01:42:45 <zzo38> It is a GPL Section 7 Exception, which means it is still GPL
01:43:29 <hppavilion[1]> What I really want in a license is the ability to do whatever the hell I want with software, except for selling the code itself and passing it off as my own or changing the license to one that permits such a thing, or that permits switching to a license that permits such a thing, etc..
01:44:24 <zzo38> I just to make software as public domain, do whatever you want
01:44:41 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: But that allows people to sell your code as if it was theirs, does it not
01:44:44 <hppavilion[1]> -?
01:45:20 <zzo38> Yes it does
01:45:36 <zzo38> If people want to sell copies that is fine with me
01:45:36 <hppavilion[1]> OK, corollary, I want to be able to include the software as a portion of proprietary software if I so desire, as long as it does not form the primary bulk of the software.
01:45:41 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: OK then.
01:47:15 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, great. I settled on Aptana, and now it won't install because of some dependency regarding nodejs
01:47:20 <hppavilion[1]> Which I already have installed
01:47:40 <hppavilion[1]> Worst kind of dependency error is one that you already have fulfilled that the software doesn't check for
01:48:24 <hppavilion[1]> Modal Logic Programming seems like a useful part of AI
01:48:31 <zzo38> Maybe it is the wrong version of Node.js?
01:48:33 <hppavilion[1]> My favorite AI modal operator is "learn"
01:49:21 <hppavilion[1]> #learn fact ::- #need (#knows self (fact | ~fact))
01:49:57 <hppavilion[1]> Where need is from the "want-need fulfillment logic" and #knows is from epistemic logic. Also, the open world assumption is used.
01:50:32 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, it might be more like #learn fact ::- #need (#knows self fact | #knows self ~fact)
01:51:34 <hppavilion[1]> One thing that makes hppavilion[1] happy: Trying a !bang that he has never used before or seen referenced with duck duck go and having it work immediately
01:51:37 <hppavilion[1]> In this case, !sep
01:51:47 <hppavilion[1]> (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
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02:43:22 <boily> `relcome fyp
02:44:06 <HackEgo> fyp: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:57:07 <boily> fungot: do you know about condut0r?
02:57:07 <fungot> boily: ihope is that guy that's *really* useless. still, i'm much faster at most things
02:58:42 <oerjan> . o O ( fungot-tswett death match )
02:58:42 <fungot> oerjan: that was on the wrong trail. the actual global instruction requires three bytes, i believe, which i don't
03:01:13 <boily> uhm, why tswett?
03:05:38 <oerjan> because ihope127 is his old nick
03:10:46 <boily> tdh
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03:15:08 <Sgeo_> "In general, absorb is the strongest, most busted mechanic in the game, and you want to be taking advantage of it as often as possible." - Will Ma, Lunarch Studios Founder
03:15:57 <shachaf> Absorb is pretty good.
03:16:15 <shachaf> But pure-green strategies can be effective too.
03:17:48 <shachaf> If you spend more resources on getting a unit that can absorb X than your opponent needs to spend to generate X damage per turn, then presumably you're worse off.
03:18:35 <shachaf> By resources I'm including time, of course. Time is the main resource, really.
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04:20:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46815&oldid=46362 * * (+29) bf.vim
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05:00:31 <zzo38> The New Black {B} Instant ;; Target black spell or black permanent is now black.
05:01:39 <shachaf> zzo38: If a spell or permanent is owned or controlled by someone whose last name is Black, does it count as black?
05:02:16 <zzo38> shachaf: The name of the players is irrelevant.
05:02:32 <shachaf> But isn't it a Black permanent if it's owned by Black?
05:02:41 <zzo38> (As far as the game is concerned players have no names as far as I know.)
05:03:12 <shachaf> I think players only have names starting with the letters A and N.
05:03:20 <zzo38> shachaf: I think not; players can have no names, subtypes, etc
05:06:41 <zzo38> A name is something only an object has, in Magic: the Gathering.
05:07:42 <shachaf> Are players not objects?
05:07:59 <zzo38> Players are not objects.
05:08:14 <shachaf> But you can attach an enchantment to a player.
05:08:15 <zzo38> And therefore players don't belong in any zone.
05:08:28 <zzo38> Yes; permanents can be attached to players or objects.
05:08:34 <zzo38> Targets can be players, objects, or zones.
05:09:28 <shachaf> Right.
05:35:59 <zzo38> The card "The New Black" that I described is nearly worthless, but does have some uses.
05:36:44 <zzo38> Such as to affect an object that temporarily changed color, or to affect a multicolor object.
05:37:27 <zzo38> Or with "heroic" abilities.
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06:30:32 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
06:30:40 <hppavilion[1]> What happens when we cross The Grid with an OS?
06:32:00 <zzo38> What grid is that?
06:32:33 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: thegrid.io
06:36:26 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... I wonder if I could hook a neural network together with a parser to make a smartparser?
06:37:45 <zzo38> Do you mean to try to parse things that won't parse?
06:37:50 <zzo38> I don't know.
06:38:19 <zzo38> Or to parse the output of the neural network? That might also not parse, so same problem either way.
06:38:45 <zzo38> Or do you want to, if it doesn't parse, try the neural network until it does parse?
06:38:56 <zzo38> I don't know what you mean exactly.
06:39:11 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: No, I mean making a parser with a neural network. You feed the network characters and it produces an AST... somehow... I guess?
06:39:33 <zzo38> I don't know much about neural networks, so I cannot answer that question.
06:40:10 <zzo38> But if you can figure out how to make something out of that, then you can try!
06:40:10 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I don't either
06:40:34 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: The basics are you give it data and it spits out more data (usually all data is floats/double/whatever)
06:41:01 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: And you can tell it that these inputs should spit out these outputs, and it will adjust itself accordingly
06:43:05 <zzo38> Try something, possibly
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08:03:54 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: that's a basic feedforward neural network
08:04:02 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yes
08:04:12 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I was explaining the basics based on what I know
08:06:17 <\oren\> In my neural networks course I used convolutional and recurrent neural networks
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08:17:24 <hppavilion[1]> Whoops
08:17:40 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: So what do you think about merging the principles of The Grid with an OS?
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09:43:09 <int-e> impomatic: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/int-e/box256/master/universal/loc_0x08 ... note the double purpose "mov" :)
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09:55:49 <int-e> or dual purpose...
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10:05:04 <int-e> impomatic: it's a bit sad that linear shift registers (modulo 256) would have a too low period with fewer than 255 bytes...
10:05:54 <int-e> err, make that 2041 bytes.
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12:02:52 <int-e> Is sound irrelevant in Doom? (looking at http://vizdoom.cs.put.edu.pl/competition-cig-2016)
12:04:14 <int-e> (it's fair, of course, because no player gets to listen... but it's still a question that nags me)
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12:23:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46816&oldid=46814 * * (+39)
12:25:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46820&oldid=46816 * IAM * (+138)
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12:27:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46821&oldid=46820 * IAM * (+13) Well, that wasn’t correct wiki markup!
12:28:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46822&oldid=46821 * IAM * (+33) Why is there two programming languages called Gibberish?
12:29:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46823&oldid=46822 * IAM * (+0) Put them in the wrong order.
12:35:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46824&oldid=46823 * IAM * (+59) Added note about my username.
12:35:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46825&oldid=46824 * IAM * (+13) Clarified who wrote the Gibberish code.
12:38:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46826&oldid=46825 * IAM * (+173) I’m planning to design a language!
12:51:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainFunge2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46827&oldid=31850 * LegionMammal978 * (-7) formatting
12:51:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainFunge2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46828&oldid=46827 * LegionMammal978 * (+17) more formatting
12:52:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainFunge2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46829&oldid=46828 * LegionMammal978 * (-11) *facepalm*
12:53:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BrainFunge2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46830&oldid=46829 * LegionMammal978 * (+17) *double facepalm*
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13:00:49 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quine (programming language)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=46831 * IAM * (+169) Well, this is a silly language.
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13:03:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46832&oldid=46796 * IAM * (+88) Well, it's easy to write a quine in this language!
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13:08:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Quine (programming language)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46833&oldid=46831 * IAM * (+116) Somebody did basically the same thing already.
13:13:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[XS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46834&oldid=16506 * LegionMammal978 * (+13) /* External resources */
13:14:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:IAM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46835&oldid=46826 * IAM * (+70)
13:26:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Vriskanon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46836&oldid=42220 * IAM * (+106) /* jeo */ new section
13:27:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Vriskanon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46837&oldid=46836 * IAM * (+69) /* jeo */
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14:26:21 <boily> @metar CYUL
14:26:21 <lambdabot> CYUL 241300Z 36007KT 350V050 30SM SKC 02/M13 A3019 RMK SLP227
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14:56:45 <gamemanj> Nobody treats Type 7 as specified in the RFC anymore... except ELinks, in that it won't accept blank lines. Cue "Input Blank Line (workaround for elinks type 7 support)"
14:58:27 <boily> gamellomanj. what is type 7?
14:59:30 <gamemanj> type '7' or "search engine query", but Gopher's only other options for interactivity are terminal sessions and basic "do something on get" links, so it's more or less the Gopher version of a form submission.
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15:01:16 <boily> gopher is fun!
15:01:57 <boily> have you visited gopher://zzo38computer.org/ yet?
15:02:06 <gamemanj> Yep. And linked to it.
15:02:06 <\oren\> @metar CYYZ
15:02:06 <lambdabot> CYYZ 241300Z 13005KT 090V160 15SM FEW110 BKN140 07/M08 A3016 RMK AC1AC6 AC TR SLP221
15:02:11 <boily> zzo38: hezzo38. your server died? content was lost? :(
15:02:28 <boily> he\\oren\. you have no right being warmer than me!
15:02:52 <boily> gamemanj: you have your own page on the gopherspace? neat!
15:08:30 <gamemanj> ...oh, great, and apparently elinks does caching, too
15:08:40 <b_jonas> gopher has links?
15:08:54 <b_jonas> gamemanj: yes, elinks caches everything, regardless if it should
15:09:03 <b_jonas> so you often have to reload
15:09:16 <gamemanj> b_jonas: which means that "perform action on get" will not work
15:09:30 <b_jonas> gamemanj: it will, if you press control-R after it
15:09:48 <b_jonas> mind you, normally you should write servers so you perform actions on POST
15:09:58 <gamemanj> b_jonas: gopher doesn't have post
15:10:11 <gamemanj> b_jonas: It has search engine queries but you need to enter something in for those
15:10:26 <gamemanj> So I'm literally going to have a link that says this:
15:10:36 <gamemanj> "Input Blank Line (Enter any text, it will be ignored)"
15:10:58 <b_jonas> then enter "a"
15:11:11 <gamemanj> well, yes, but it's still awful
15:12:02 <b_jonas> how is it awful? IRC insists on entering four parameters on USER too, and the first one has to be alphanumeric (or something like that), and two of them are ignored. I just enter USER a a a a or USER x x x x usually
15:12:57 <gamemanj> Maybe, but clients obscure that
15:13:20 <gamemanj> with this, it's a user-facing useless text field
15:13:39 <b_jonas> gamemanj: well, my solution for gopher is to use HTTP
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15:14:01 <gamemanj> b_jonas: so your solution for gopher is not to use gopher?
15:14:04 <b_jonas> yes
15:14:09 <b_jonas> that's also my solution for FTP
15:14:28 <gamemanj> and your solution for <arbitrary protocol b_jonas does not implement>?
15:15:52 <gamemanj> Oh, brilliant. It caches duplicate searches.
15:16:09 <b_jonas> gamemanj: yes, and duplicate HTTP posts too
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15:16:19 <b_jonas> so you have to press control-R
15:16:35 <gamemanj> "ELinks: It's More Efficient This Way"
15:17:13 <boily> it caches WHAT? that's insane!
15:17:32 <boily> a POST changes state on the server. you can't cache that! AAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
15:17:52 <gamemanj> boily: yes. I'm going to be busy adding a whole new subsystem on my gopher server just to work around elinks
15:18:20 <Taneb> b_jonas, your solution for FTP is to not use gopher?
15:19:05 <gamemanj> ...boily: Actually, nvm, if it's caching EVERYTHING it'll cache the executive job list
15:19:18 <gamemanj> ...boily: which means users using elinks will never be able to use the thing in the first place
15:19:51 <gamemanj> because if they try to create an instance, they'll never see the console page...
15:20:09 <gamemanj> So, in other news, ELinks is stupid
15:20:15 <gamemanj> And the sky is still blue
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15:20:26 <gamemanj> No, wait, it's gr(e/a)y
15:21:44 <boily> and the sky is graaay ♪
15:22:03 <boily> `relcome jefrite
15:22:39 <HackEgo> jefrite: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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15:42:00 <gamemanj> HackEgo: You mean there are other networks than freenode? Impossible!
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15:59:13 <b_jonas> gamemanj: yes, there's like a dozen others
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16:09:45 <gamemanj> Ok, I have a plan for bypassing the elinks cache. Sort of. If you press "back" you go back into cache-land...
16:09:58 <gamemanj> Basically I'm going to stick a number on the end of links.
16:10:23 <gamemanj> Completely worthless number, but the elinks cache won't ignore it.
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16:27:01 <gamemanj> I wish there was some way of identifying ELinks in particular...
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16:50:14 <int-e> oh, how did I miss that recent x86 got INTERCAL support instructions... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_Manipulation_Instruction_Sets#Parallel_bit_deposit_and_extract
16:50:44 <gamemanj> what.
16:51:47 <gamemanj> Why would the speed of bit manipulation need improving?
16:52:48 <b_jonas> `wisdom
16:53:08 <HackEgo> ruby/Ruby is a programming language from Japan, that eventually decided to support non-ascii characters.
16:53:57 <int-e> gamemanj: well the parallel bit extraction (INTERCAL: "select") is notoriously difficult to perform... so is the interleave operation which can be performed by two parallel deposits...
16:56:23 <int-e> I don't know what precise usecases they envisioned... S-boxes in cryptography? verious search algorithms? bitfield extraction?
16:56:45 <int-e> (bitfield manipulation is actually quite a strong usecase for those operations)
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17:34:27 <\oren\> int-e: does GCC have builtins for these yet?
17:35:35 <b_jonas> \oren\: yes
17:35:39 <fizzie> I think we discussed the INTERCAL-suitability of pdep/pext on-channel once.
17:36:30 <b_jonas> \oren\: in gcc, you get builtins for basically every useful non-privilaged cpu operation, unless you're using an old gcc, or unless you're on ARM and you're using gcc before gcc 5
17:37:19 <b_jonas> \oren\: also, gcc's inline assembly is powerful that it can serve as a worse fallback in case you don't yet have a builtin
17:41:33 <int-e> 2013-04-11.txt:07:24:45: <fizzie> Fiora: I'm sure pdep and pext will be well-received by the thousands (if not millions) INTERCAL implementers, for implementing SELECT and MINGLE.
17:44:20 <\oren\> I see.
17:44:47 <int-e> so that was before my return to this channel.
17:45:35 <\oren\> . o O (brb, completely revamping my half-working 6502 emulator)
17:45:59 <\oren\> or I would if I wasn't working on my font right now
17:47:42 <gamemanj> I once knew an oren who worked on a font to revamp the half-working 6502 emulator to build the Commodore 64 to operate the solenoids to close the trap to catch the fly...
17:48:30 <b_jonas> \oren\: do you support decimal mode and set the carry flag correctly when it's enabled?
17:49:26 <\oren\> b_jonas: that's what I was using bit oprtaitons for, yes. It doesn't really work because the code is too complex to debug
17:50:04 <\oren\> also because my emulator tries to work on a clock-cycle-correct level
17:50:09 <int-e> so what other cool processor extensions could I have missed, hmm
17:50:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: great
17:51:07 <int-e> I've seen the transactional memory ones... too many SSE versions...
17:51:47 <b_jonas> \oren\: do you support the crazy nondeterministic undocumented opcode whose behaviour depends on how exactly the memory chip works?
17:51:51 <\oren\> gamemanj: my font started as a font for a game I never finished, and then I made a ttf version so I could use it in a terminal, and then I realized I wanted IPA and dwarf fortess support
17:52:10 <gamemanj> ...when's the TeX version coming?
17:53:05 <\oren\> gamemanj: I can probably export the font to metafont...
17:53:14 <gamemanj> (I'm joking...)
17:53:48 <fizzie> "Why the Government believes that voting to remain in the European Union is the best decision for the UK."
17:53:52 <gamemanj> int-e: well, you missed the BrFu x86 extension, whose sole purpose is to find matched parenthesis in string buffers bordered by 0 bytes on either side.
17:53:54 <fizzie> Ha, we got that leaflet after all.
17:54:06 <fizzie> (Even though they're not going to let us vote.)
17:54:59 <gamemanj> int-e: There's also the Mobius extension, which treats interleaved bytes as two contiguous spaces of memory...
17:55:35 <gamemanj> ...hopefully it's clear I'm telling lies.
17:59:47 <int-e> gamemanj: Given this channel's devotion to factual accuracy, I was completely mislead by your claims.
18:00:17 <gamemanj> Hmm. I need to get a time machine. Then I can go back to the first day of April.
18:00:26 <b_jonas> `wisdom
18:00:37 <Elronnd> `? b_jonas
18:00:42 <gamemanj> `wisdom wisdom
18:01:00 <gamemanj> *nothing happens*
18:01:33 <int-e> they have to restore the vm image from deep storage.. probably some sort of tape library
18:01:36 <int-e> that takes time
18:02:02 <int-e> that's my theory, at least.
18:02:09 <HackEgo> No output.
18:02:10 <HackEgo> No output.
18:02:11 <HackEgo> No output.
18:02:23 <int-e> `? cat
18:02:25 <HackEgo> Cats are cool, but should be illegal.
18:02:29 <gamemanj> `? wisdom
18:02:32 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and uh that other one? it started with like, an ø?
18:02:45 <b_jonas> `wisdom
18:02:47 <HackEgo> infinitive/Infinitives are atomic verbs. They were first split in the 1940s, and the world hasn't looked back since.
18:02:53 <gamemanj> `? b_jonas
18:02:55 <HackEgo> b_jonas egy nagyon titokzatos személy. Hollétéről egyelőre nem ismertek.
18:02:57 <gamemanj> ...
18:03:09 <int-e> `? purr
18:03:10 <HackEgo> purr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:03:16 <b_jonas> `echo zU0dIxy1RhtbmYoTJFigBQ
18:03:18 <HackEgo> zU0dIxy1RhtbmYoTJFigBQ
18:03:28 <int-e> `? password
18:03:29 <HackEgo> The password of the month is supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
18:03:41 <int-e> `learn The password of the month is zU0dIxy1RhtbmYoTJFigBQ
18:03:45 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is zU0dIxy1RhtbmYoTJFigBQ
18:03:48 <b_jonas> what? it's not
18:03:54 <int-e> it is now
18:04:24 <gamemanj> ...
18:04:59 <gamemanj> `learn The password of the month is supercalifragilisticexpialidociouszU0dIxy1RhtbmYoTJFigBQ (There. Compromise.)
18:05:02 <HackEgo> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is supercalifragilisticexpialidociouszU0dIxy1RhtbmYoTJFigBQ (There. Compromise.)
18:05:10 <int-e> fair enough
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18:20:49 <\oren\> `` ls wisdom/ø*
18:20:54 <HackEgo> wisdom/ø \ wisdom/øl \ wisdom/ørjan
18:21:06 <\oren\> `` cat wisdom/ø*
18:21:08 <HackEgo> ​ø is not going anywhere. \ Øl, øl og mere øl. \ Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers.
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19:13:44 <zzo38> I like the PDEP/PEXT it is the things I have wanted to be able to use
19:14:26 <zzo38> How to detect which of these features my computer supports?
19:20:18 <b_jonas> zzo38: at low level, the intel and amd manuals tell which bits in which cpuinfo words you have to examine. on a higher level, you can use the gcc builtins, or /proc/cpuinfo as a convenience interface, or the library http://www.agner.org/optimize/#asmlib
19:20:19 <fizzie> I think there are CPUID bits. Linux would expose them in /proc/cpuinfo -- I would think PDEP and PEXT correspond to the "bmi2" flag.
19:21:25 <b_jonas> zzo38: in a real program, you'd call the actual cpuinfo instruction (but only once per program and cache the info, it's an expensive instruction), whether directly or through the msvc wrapper or a library, or the higher-level gcc builtin that already does the caching and tests for a single named feature.
19:22:32 <b_jonas> zzo38: on x86_32 if you want to support old cpus, you first have to test if the cpuinfo instruction itself is supported, for which there's another instruction sequence. on x86_64 you can skip that.
19:22:58 <zzo38> I would have to do #if or #ifdef to check if it is available and to write my own implementation if not, so that it can work on non-x86 computers
19:23:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, in the case of some operations there are already higher level libraries wrapping some of this stuff
19:24:57 <b_jonas> zzo38: there are three reasons why (at low level) you have to do a cpuinfo instruction to test for (almost any) cpu feature, rather than just try the feature and see if it works: (1) for compatibility with a virtualized cpu with live migration, in which case the set of features that actually work can change and be larger than the ones actually supported to work always,
19:26:13 <b_jonas> (2) because some features require OS support to handle saving the registers at task switch correctly (although these days cpus just have those features off by default and let the OS enable it), and (3) because some features aren't deterministically testable.
19:26:42 <zzo38> I don't see bmi2 on my computer
19:26:44 <int-e> being able to ship binary packages would by my number 1...
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19:28:19 <int-e> it's fairly new, Intel added it in Haswell processors; AMD caught up last year with the Bulldozer architecture...
19:28:30 <zzo38> Yes PDEP/PEXT would be useful to compute Morton numbering, as mentioned above.
19:29:05 <int-e> Heh my work laptop actually has them...
19:30:08 <zzo38> They would also allow INTERCAL programs to run faster, also as mentioned above.
19:32:19 <zzo38> I have written a (unused) specification that you can write attributes before a declaration like ["something"(a,b,1)] or whatever that if the compiler understands it can do stuff such as replace the function if the CPU instruction set already has that function or to optimize code surrounding a call to that function or whatever, so you can avoid needing #ifdef and CPUID and so on to check if it supports it.
19:34:41 <int-e> Is there a *sane*, better option than having a function pointer to an architecture-dependent implementation of a function to make such tricks portable (within x86_64, say)?
19:35:09 <int-e> (the insane ideas range from patching call addresses to actual runtime code generation)
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19:35:55 <int-e> Or, half-way inbetween, abusing the dynamic linker for this job.
19:36:12 <zzo38> My own idea was that the compiler will do all of that stuff for you.
19:36:54 <int-e> Ah. I didn't define the problem: Have a single binary that will run and use a processor feature if present, but also run and not use it if the feature is absent.
19:37:53 <zzo38> int-e: Yes, the compiler should do it for you, and I might think code patching might do?
19:38:20 <zzo38> I specified such thing as ["implements"("bitselect",x,y)] unsigned int bitselect(unsigned int x,unsigned int y);
19:41:53 <int-e> oh funky. the documentation has an example using something called an "ifunc resolver" http://sprunge.us/AcbG ... an ELF feature.
19:41:57 <int-e> That could be fun.
19:42:17 <zzo38> Instruction sets I have designed in past already included what is called PDEP and PEXT in x86, although I used different names for them.
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19:57:27 <zzo38> But I like this instructions: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Muxcomp
19:58:47 <gamemanj> Idea for a company: sell Brainfuck As A Service solutions.
20:02:34 <gamemanj> (I'm already providing a free offering, but only accessible via Gopher. Mwuhahaha.)
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20:20:51 <int-e> `? darknet
20:20:54 <HackEgo> darknet? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:21:10 <gamemanj> `? anarchy
20:21:13 <HackEgo> anarchy? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:21:17 <gamemanj> `? gopher
20:21:19 <HackEgo> Gopher is int-e's vision of the successor of HTTP/2. But zzo38 thought of it first.
20:21:21 <gamemanj> `? zzo38
20:21:23 <HackEgo> zzo38 is not actually the next version of fungot, much as it may seem.
20:21:29 <gamemanj> ...
20:21:30 <int-e> `learn The darknet is a world-encompassing network of underground gopher services.
20:21:33 <HackEgo> Learned 'darknet': The darknet is a world-encompassing network of underground gopher services.
20:22:00 <gamemanj> int-e: Underground gopher services? So Brainfuck-as-a-service is considered "underground" now?
20:22:08 <int-e> (slight redundancy there... where would a gopher be if not underground)
20:22:27 <gamemanj> (maybe on top of the ground?)
20:22:30 <int-e> gamemanj: no, it's a play on the animal meaning of the word
20:23:34 <gamemanj> `learn The darknet is a world-encompassing network of underground gopher services. Said services are paid for in plant roots and earthworms.
20:23:38 <HackEgo> Relearned 'darknet': The darknet is a world-encompassing network of underground gopher services. Said services are paid for in plant roots and earthworms.
20:24:51 <gamemanj> There. It'll either confuse the hell out of people with the first sentence, or if they understand the first, confuse the hell out of people with the second sentence. They'll either understand one or the other, but probably not both...
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20:25:50 <int-e> gamemanj: You've now confused me with your claims of confusion... to me the two sentences seem consistent.
20:26:05 <gamemanj> ...Mwuhahaha! My meta-plan worked!
20:26:48 <gamemanj> I was thinking that they'd interpret it as Gopher (protocol) and wonder why people would pay in plant roots and earthworms, or interpret it as Gopher (animal) and wonder how animals provide services.
20:34:03 <int-e> `learn Doublethink is the ability of holding the right belief. (If you think that you disagree with this definition, think again.)
20:34:08 <HackEgo> Learned 'doublethink': Doublethink is the ability of holding the right belief. (If you think that you disagree with this definition, think again.)
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20:35:48 <gamemanj> I think my system for uploading files to Gopher servers might be a bit messed up.
20:36:12 <int-e> Does it burrow?
20:36:35 <gamemanj> Basically, there's a search-engine endpoint on the server which accepts a Brainfuck program.
20:36:52 <gamemanj> So I wrote a Lua script which takes a file, removes newlines/etc. (everything that isn't needed),
20:37:04 <gamemanj> prepends "executive/createBf" and a tab,
20:37:10 <gamemanj> and postpends a CRLF.
20:37:18 <gamemanj> Pipe to netcat...
20:37:22 <gamemanj> ...file on server.
20:38:03 <gamemanj> In theory.
20:38:04 <int-e> huh... "Someone just tried to sign in to your Google Account from an app that doesn't meet modern security standards."
20:40:15 <gamemanj> ...I think I should support compressed base64 code upload...
20:42:05 <int-e> (First of all, I didn't "sign in"... I sent an e-mail from my usual mail client... secondly, could you please be more specific what you mean by not meeting modern security standards?)
20:42:14 <int-e> but I'll shut up about it :/
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20:54:01 <zzo38> I don't use Google Account, it has all of those problems and much more
20:54:40 <myname> int-e: non-encryoted
20:54:50 <myname> *p
20:55:15 <int-e> myname: nope, using STARTTLS. I checked.
20:55:39 <int-e> https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/6010255?hl=en isn't helpful either.
20:56:54 <int-e> (Not perfect, since the server certificate isn't actually checked, so MITM is possible... but I don't see how Google could detect that.)
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20:57:45 <int-e> (well it's helpful insofar as it points me to the option of disabling the feature. but it doesn't tell me anything about what those "enhanced security standards" are exactly.
20:57:47 <zzo38> Encrypting the message itself would be better anyways I think; only the intended recipient would be able to read it.
20:57:48 <int-e> )
20:58:14 <zzo38> STARTTLS and so on should not be needed.
20:58:28 <int-e> uhm...
20:58:34 <int-e> that's solving a different problem.
20:59:04 <int-e> This is for submission, and secured (password) authentication with a mail server.
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21:09:25 <b_jonas> fungot, what's the password of the day?
21:09:25 <fungot> b_jonas: in tail context i mean.)
21:09:45 <b_jonas> fungot: yeah, in tail context
21:09:45 <fungot> b_jonas: i was thinking: depending on the jury) for each of these components will be usable in isolation.
21:18:11 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: What happens when we combine the technology behind fungot with a programming language?
21:18:11 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: that helps hmm. i wonder what the default compiler policy is, if programmers can fork without some kind of front-end instruction decoder.
21:18:34 <hppavilion[1]> Like, make a language that is nothing more than a series of words
21:18:45 <hppavilion[1]> And some words can read or write further words
21:20:08 <hppavilion[1]> Also
21:20:25 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Does fungot's response in any way depend on what you say to fnem?
21:20:26 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: alists then. this is what i happen to wish at given times, perhaps?
21:20:34 <hppavilion[1]> *fnerm
21:20:48 <zzo38> Do you like this? {-} Conspiracy ;; Hidden agenda ;; When ~ is faced up, you may pay {1(2/U)(2/U)}. If you do, or if target spell's name is the chosen name, counter that spell.
21:21:17 <hppavilion[1]> Nested programming language?
21:21:26 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, matrioshka is already a thing
21:21:38 <hppavilion[1]> INFINITE matrioshka language?
21:22:38 <hppavilion[1]> Or self-referential matrioshka language?
21:22:49 <int-e> Oh fun, now I've botched the headers of that email... stupid. But I'll blame Google for it :-P
21:22:52 <hppavilion[1]> The idea of ASG is stil intriguing
21:23:17 <hppavilion[1]> (ASG = Abstract Syntax Graph, as opposed to AST = Abstract Syntax Tree)
21:23:35 <gamemanj> If an interpreter can interpret an interpreter that can run the first interpreter, then you can stack infinitely.
21:23:49 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Yes, but if you use compilers it can be done in finite space
21:24:10 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: AKA Bootstrapping
21:24:21 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Have you seen The Grid yet?
21:24:25 <hppavilion[1]> (thegrid.io)
21:24:27 <gamemanj> ?
21:24:53 <gamemanj> hahaha. very funny.
21:25:03 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: What's very funny?
21:25:13 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: I made no jokes
21:25:52 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Unless you mean that the basic idea of The Grid is absurd, which is true /for now/
21:25:58 <gamemanj> So they got some neural network or something to choose one of some templates.
21:26:04 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Not quite
21:26:47 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It actually designs the site in some capacity; it doesn't make the basic layout AFAICT, but it's more than just a neural network choosing a shell and sticking stuff in it
21:26:59 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It actually does things like crop images via face recognition and such
21:29:12 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It's obviously not on par with a web designer in terms of outputspace, but it's good enough for most applications. Luckily, it's not going to catch on any time soon.
21:29:16 <gamemanj> So basically... fill in text, maybe try and work out which images go where, crop images using some external module...
21:29:34 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It's made by an ex-Google employee (head of department, IIRC)
21:29:45 <hppavilion[1]> (AdSense head?)
21:30:16 <gamemanj> Riight.
21:30:41 <gamemanj> Sorry if I seem cynical, but really, it's easy to imitate most web designers anyway -
21:30:50 <gamemanj> half the time it's just vertical layout, toolbar at the top,
21:31:06 <gamemanj> correct CSS, and some of those "scroll and stuff happens" animations.
21:31:26 <gamemanj> Admittedly that's a lot more difficult to actually set up, but if it's a matter of the design?
21:32:19 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Well yeah
21:32:38 <gamemanj> thegrid.io and ethereum.org: Here's what they have in common.
21:32:44 <gamemanj> It's a set of "pages".
21:32:56 <gamemanj> Not actually pages, but "pages": you scroll and it's divided into sections.
21:33:12 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: But, y'know, for most people a generic website that doesn't look generic to them (because they aren't web designers) is enough
21:33:49 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: To their customers, it isn't a matter of whether it's groundbreaking art; they just don't want it to suck
21:34:46 <gamemanj> If it works, it works. Not saying otherwise. I'm just noting that, given the structure, it's not covering much new ground. It is a novel application, though.
21:35:16 <b_jonas> fungot, how many magnetic tapes can you write in parallel?
21:35:16 <fungot> b_jonas: then of course the committee changes its mind again.... fnord
21:35:39 <b_jonas> fungot: yeah, damned committees. they've denied my request for hardware extension too.
21:35:40 <fungot> b_jonas: slatex? what is the definition of scheme's syntax ( well, !aux) parameters and set!s. python-docutils rest, ie basically the parens and still get the whole thing
21:36:14 <hppavilion[1]> Ugh
21:36:23 <hppavilion[1]> Looks like I need to restart my computer to get DOcker working
21:38:31 <hppavilion[1]> b_jonas: It appears that that's 363395873720940750532734673602455723122168259061554666207396343789667696668977026601159705068345305749588980027357341259349766026061334997034300004 magnetic tapes, expressed in base 256
21:39:08 <hppavilion[1]> 0x7468656e206f6620636f757273652074686520636f6d6d6974746565206368616e67657320697473206d696e6420616761696e2e2e2e2e20666e6f7264 for hexnerds
21:39:55 <hppavilion[1]> fungot: OH MY GOD
21:39:55 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: as for dependencies... i wonder whether i should watch some demos tomorrow. fnord in hacking pain!!!
21:40:06 <hppavilion[1]> fungot: SCHEMEY TeX IS A THING!?
21:40:06 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: java is made of iron, and sits next to kirby superstar as the exceptions to my platformer rule
21:40:18 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: So, if it's 363etc... in base 256... then where's the NULs? The 0-9 chars?
21:40:33 <gamemanj> correction: the a-z chars?
21:40:45 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It's base256 as ASCII
21:41:00 <gamemanj> ...
21:41:16 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: I didn't use a weird order; I just used ord(c)
21:41:44 <gamemanj> decimal is base 10
21:41:48 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Yes
21:41:54 <gamemanj> ...so the above is decimal.
21:42:00 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Yes
21:42:07 * gamemanj is confused
21:42:25 <gamemanj> and why on earth does this have "2e2e2e2e": 0x7468656e206f6620636f757273652074686520636f6d6d6974746565206368616e67657320697473206d696e6420616761696e2e2e2e2e20666e6f7264
21:42:26 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: our great fungey master said "then of course the committee changes its mind again.... fnord"
21:42:29 -!- centrinia has joined.
21:42:45 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: And I treated that sentence as being a number expressed in base 256
21:42:51 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: And I translated it to base 10
21:42:54 <gamemanj> ...oh.
21:42:58 <gamemanj> now it makes sense.
21:43:04 <gamemanj> Hey, wait, could we do that to any data?
21:43:09 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Yes
21:43:21 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Any fixed-size charset can be treated as a number
21:43:34 <gamemanj> Like if I were to express, say, the entirety of <insert your favorite movie here> as a base-256 number...
21:43:38 <gamemanj> translate to base 10...
21:43:47 <gamemanj> and print into a book...
21:43:52 <int-e> `` dc <<<16i7468656E206F6620636F757273652074686520636F6D6D6974746565206368616E67657320697473206D696E6420616761696E2E2E2E2E20666E6F7264P
21:43:53 <gamemanj> would anyone be able to stop me?
21:44:27 <HackEgo> then of course the committee changes its mind again.... fnord
21:44:45 <int-e> gamemanj: well, it would be a very big book
21:44:48 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: For example, ascii-godel of gamemanj = 7449355541041737322
21:44:58 <gamemanj> int-e: All the better for crushing people with.
21:45:18 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: They could stop you in that you are distributing the necessary data to reconstruct a movie without paying for it
21:45:34 <gamemanj> Ah, but it's just one big number.
21:45:39 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Even if you weren't actually distributing it, and no matter how impractical it is
21:45:44 <int-e> gamemanj: it would also be a copyright infringement.
21:45:45 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
21:45:54 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: One big copyright infringement
21:46:16 <int-e> gamemanj: actually this kind of idea is old... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime
21:46:40 <gamemanj> ...so, what length of number is considered "copyrighted"? How far does this nonsense go?
21:46:46 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: You can also encode the number as an image, or as text, or as anything
21:46:52 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Well, it's complicated
21:46:58 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: The number itself isn't copyrighted
21:47:07 <gamemanj> Like, if a 2048-bit prime just happens to match a small bit of copyrighted Brainfuck,
21:47:24 <gamemanj> then does that prime just become unusable?
21:47:37 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Not necessarily
21:47:41 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: In the general case, no
21:47:53 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: But if you distribute the number with the purpose/information that it represents that BF, then it's a violation
21:48:02 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It's weird and complicated and pretty stupid
21:49:20 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: It gets more complicated if you don't provide information on /how/ to decode it
21:49:25 <gamemanj> Who said anything about distributing the massive book with purpose?
21:49:46 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: For example, this IRC message can be decoded into a .tar.gz of all the copyrighted data in existence
21:50:07 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: But I won't tell you what algorithm to decode it with, so am I really violating anything?
21:50:21 <int-e> gamemanj: Actually copyright is kind of nice in that you cannot accidently violate it. If you pick a random number, and that represents the entire works of Rowling, that is not a copyright infringement. You'll have a lot of trouble proving that you picked that number at random though.
21:50:57 <int-e> (And if you didn't, but derived it from Rowling's work... well then that is a copyright infringement.)
21:51:36 <gamemanj> So, basically, copyright law also keeps in mind how you arrived at the data, and chances are pretty good that in practice nobody will believe it a coincidence.
21:52:05 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: 88006156602275967014932877753568725 can represent the entire works of rowling if you decode it properly, and I generated it knowing full well that that's the case.
21:52:22 <int-e> Also a program that prints a normal real number is allowed... while the output does, in principle, contain all copyrighted works, you need about as much information to encode where to find the works in that output as you need to represent the work itself in a mor straightforward way.
21:52:56 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: 101001000100001000001...
21:53:10 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Does that contain all copyrighted works under a normal decoding algorithm?
21:53:19 <hppavilion[1]> (Wait, put a "0." at the beginning)
21:53:57 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: It -- abstractly speaking -- contains them, but it isn't derived from them. So it's fine.
21:54:07 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: God this is weird xD
21:54:32 <gamemanj> If Pi has an infinite number of digits...
21:54:43 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: HOW DARE YOU MENTION THAT ILLEGAL NUMBER
21:54:46 <gamemanj> ...then, thus, it contains an infinite number of copyrighted works.
21:54:52 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Not really
21:55:00 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: There are a finite number of copyrighted works
21:55:03 <gamemanj> ...
21:55:03 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: So...
21:55:15 <gamemanj> It includes all copyrighted works that will be, too.
21:55:24 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: but they all appear infinitely often, assuming pi is a normal number (which we do not know)
21:55:25 <gamemanj> So it approaches infinite over time.
21:55:57 <hppavilion[1]> We should make a universe where pi=3.184452094630565
21:56:03 <int-e> However, just because you own a haystack that doesn't make you an owner of a needle.
21:56:10 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: Humans will only be around for a finite time
21:56:53 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: And unless copyright law (and physics) changes so you can own a non-finite number of discrete works (discrete means "not variants on each other), then it will still be finite
21:57:06 <hppavilion[1]> s/\)/")/
21:58:37 <hppavilion[1]> (318.4452094630565 points to anyone who decodes 3.184452094630565)
21:59:05 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: No. There's a Perl script that can take fungot binary model files and use them as the initial context (essentially, do a "continue from this prefix" thing), but the befunge code can't do it. (It doesn't load the model in memory, and the files are very much not designed for going text -> token indices, just the other way around).
21:59:06 <fungot> fizzie: so you've met a few phil. majors who are arrogant and ignorant. big deal
21:59:35 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Ah
22:00:03 <hppavilion[1]> WOW that was coherent
22:00:23 <fizzie> Possibly a verbatim quote.
22:00:39 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Wait, fungot does that?
22:00:39 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: will add together the contents of varname for the shell that uses your ffi to cause it to be accessible to high school students
22:01:06 <hppavilion[1]> fungot: You are now pi% less impressive
22:01:06 <fungot> hppavilion[1]: just out of the stack. right now i am going to provide a choice of either never letting the public have it right here on my issue. thanks anyway :) this'll be fun...
22:02:53 <fizzie> Not "deliberately", but of course it can, since (almost by definition) any sentence existing in the training data is a high-likelihood one.
22:02:56 -!- gamemanj has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:03:07 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Ah, true
22:04:30 <\oren\> Thrust backward to go into a lower orbit, and therefore move forward relative to your previous orbit
22:04:47 <\oren\> AAAAAAAA
22:05:42 <fizzie> (There's also one "bug"/misfeature that can make verbatim quotes more likely than they should be -- a consequence from using variable-length n-grams and ignoring the backoff weights.)
22:07:06 -!- ent0nces has joined.
22:09:04 <fizzie> (That is, if the model is saying that for the context "foo bar", the next word is 20% baz, 20% quux and 60% "something else, do backoff to using just 'bar' as the context", fungot will instead treat it as 50% baz or 50% quux as the only possibilities.)
22:09:04 <fungot> fizzie: regarding string comparison: http://www.ffconsultancy.com/ free/ fnord is a recursive acronym
22:10:57 <int-e> Okay, this is helpful, and plausible. "There may be an update, it is being hotly debated. as the "modern security standard" Google are trying to force feed everyone is a web standard not a mail standard. To work properly the application must act as a browser. [...] The truth is there is not a mail client on the planet other than Google web apps in a browser or on a mobile device that meet their...
22:11:03 <int-e> ...standard."
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22:27:03 -!- ent0nces has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:27:40 -!- ent0nces has joined.
22:29:47 <int-e> https://support.google.com/a/answer/6260879?hl=en "Applications that rely on plain username/password authentication to access an account programmatically are considered less secure than those using modern day security standards such as OAuth 2.0."
22:34:17 <fowl> I use oauth out of laziness
22:34:51 <int-e> laziness?
22:36:08 <fowl> Too lazy to register, if I register I immediately forget the password
22:36:27 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
22:36:39 <int-e> Oh well, I keep authenticated websites to a minimum, and I don't want them linked.
22:37:54 <int-e> Anyway it seems that none of this would've happened if I had be more active on haskell-cafe...
22:38:06 <int-e> s/had be/had been/
22:38:35 <int-e> ...there was a grace period of 90 days when they made this switch.
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22:45:47 -!- ent0nces has joined.
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23:10:35 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
23:10:35 <lambdabot> ENVA 242150Z 13004KT 9999 FEW016 BKN050 M01/M02 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 14006KT
23:10:40 <oerjan> brrr
23:13:23 -!- jaboja has joined.
23:14:27 <int-e> @metar lowi
23:14:27 <lambdabot> LOWI 242150Z AUTO 06004KT 040V100 9999 -SN FEW012 BKN016 02/00 Q1011
23:14:50 <int-e> not warm either
23:15:01 <fizzie> @metar EGLL
23:15:01 <lambdabot> EGLL 242150Z AUTO 28006KT 9999 NCD 07/04 Q1019 NOSIG
23:15:27 <fizzie> It was snowing/sleeting when we left from Finland.
23:15:30 <fizzie> @metar EFHK
23:15:30 <lambdabot> EFHK 242150Z 09012KT 060V130 6000 RASN FEW006 SCT008 BKN012 05/04 Q0999 NOSIG
23:15:45 <fizzie> RASN probably means exactly that.
23:16:02 <int-e> rainy snow?
23:16:37 <int-e> aka sleet.
23:23:30 * hppavilion[1] joins 12-step program anonymous to help his addiction to getting addicted to things then joining <that thing> Anonymous to rid themself of that addiction
23:23:42 * hppavilion[1] also joins Meta Anonymous
23:23:57 <int-e> `? meta
23:24:27 <HackEgo> meta is about
23:25:56 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: I just read about what a 12-step program is and now I'm sad.
23:25:58 <int-e> HackEgo is in really bad shape.
23:26:14 <hppavilion[1]> Particularly because you can be forced into a 12-step program
23:26:28 <hppavilion[1]> But 12-step programs have very religious bases
23:26:46 <shachaf> HackEgo is great.
23:26:52 <int-e> Yeah the christian evangelism is sickening.
23:26:52 <shachaf> `before
23:27:04 <HackEgo> wisdom/doublethink//wisdom/doublethink: no such file in rev 1a4d19eed5e1
23:27:45 <shachaf> `? doublethink
23:27:47 <HackEgo> Doublethink is the ability of holding the right belief. (If you think that you disagree with this definition, think again.)
23:28:12 <shachaf> `` culprits $(lastfiles)
23:28:21 <HackEgo> int-e
23:28:32 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: It's not strictly Christian, but it's still forced religion
23:28:54 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:29:01 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Also, it advocates recognizing that you can't control that you're addicted; only some magical man in the sky can
23:31:54 <hppavilion[1]> "Oh, it's not /my/ fault that I spent all of our money on vodka"
23:32:09 <int-e> Okay, maybe not exactly christian. Though the origin certainly is...
23:33:53 -!- ent0nces has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:34:13 <int-e> It's not the worst idea to start with. Loss of control is one of the defining features of an addiction. But there's no need to bring a greater power into it.
23:34:25 -!- ent0nces has joined.
23:35:53 -!- deepblu has joined.
23:36:21 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Yeah
23:41:22 -!- deepblu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:42:22 -!- boily has joined.
23:42:56 <quintopia> helloily
23:42:59 <oerjan> choily
23:42:59 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:43:04 <quintopia> you showed up exactly when i did
23:43:39 <quintopia> i am in starbucks, next to the guy who has an entire widescreen imac set up for the second day in a row
23:43:53 <quintopia> and there's always someone tutoring someone in math in here
23:44:13 <oerjan> . o O ( is that good or bad )
23:45:04 <quintopia> you decide what the implications are of someone (like me) spending way too much time in starbucks
23:45:42 <boily> quinthellopia!
23:45:45 <boily> choily?
23:45:49 <boily> hellørjan!
23:46:06 <boily> why the fungot are you in a starbucks of all places?
23:46:07 <fungot> boily: which state that there must be 4 strings you can access files on that other host. 15 mb space, no ads, for sure, that's easy
23:46:13 * boily is a coffee hipster snob
23:46:16 -!- deepblu has joined.
23:46:21 <boily> `relcome deepblu
23:46:24 <HackEgo> deepblu: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:46:50 <boily> fungot: I prefer no strings attaches for hosting without ads.
23:46:51 <fungot> boily: umm.... no? objects have some tags so returned value of the current administration has had so much practice.
23:48:13 <int-e> hmm, string attaché
23:48:34 <boily> int-ello. I also prefer detached strings :P
23:48:46 <quintopia> boily: i know almost everyone behind the bar here. bunch of really cool folks. (also it is the only coffee shop out here in the burbs)
23:50:08 <quintopia> boily: what are you doing here?
23:50:38 <boily> here?
23:52:49 <oerjan> boily: i thought i should pass to the next logical step after ahoily and bhoily hth
23:53:27 <boily> oerjan: makes sense tdh
23:53:28 <int-e> . o O ( `learn zhoily is the last step )
23:53:44 <boily> int-e: that's exactly what they want you to believe. fnord.
23:53:57 <oerjan> boily: deepblu is earendel (is it a bot?)
23:54:16 <quintopia> boily: to be more clear why did you happen to get on irc at that exact moment and not before?
23:54:26 * int-e -----### boily
23:55:06 <int-e> `? fword
23:55:10 <HackEgo> fword? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:55:28 <earendel> oerjan: it's a bot.. i'd like to introduce it to you like in a few hours..you may like it or drop it. but im not entirely done. cool?
23:55:41 <boily> quintopia: oh, I got home from mahjong club. mahjong tends to disturb my anti-quintopian-schedule.
23:56:03 <earendel> can make it until then. it
23:56:18 <boily> earendel: hearendello. it's a bot, therefore it's welcome. unless it antagonises fungot.
23:56:19 <fungot> boily: no idea. what's the intention for it? just businessmen?
23:56:36 <boily> fungot: fungot, deepblu. deepblu, fungot.
23:56:36 <fungot> boily: call-external-value ist undefined atm, i'm just being foolish... should be fnord right?) takes at least five minutes
23:56:41 <quintopia> boily: did you win
23:57:01 <earendel> must just patch some huge gaps you would try to attack first .. you would ..by right :)
23:57:10 <boily> quintopia: I had a few good hands, but I was a tad too experimental with others ^^
23:57:36 <boily> we, attack bot weaknesses? who do you thing we are?
23:57:41 * boily whistles innocently
23:57:58 <quintopia> boily: you any good at tichu?
23:58:26 <oerjan> all bots are welcome as long as they're not too annoying
23:58:33 <coppro> quintopia: I taught him once
23:58:52 <coppro> tichu is a pretty fantastic game
23:58:54 <quintopia> coppro: do you live nearby?
23:58:57 <coppro> quintopia: no
23:59:07 <quintopia> just randomly visited?
23:59:18 <oerjan> (although being esolang-related helps)
23:59:33 <earendel> thanks.
23:59:51 <quintopia> does earendel do any esolangery?
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