00:00:30 <oerjan> ais523: oh and the ^ was not for zzo38's message, i was backscrolled without realizing
00:00:59 <ais523> I can't really respond to an ^ that points to an unspecified past line
00:01:02 <oerjan> actually it was just to point out what @send correct to
00:01:10 <oerjan> ais523: i'd forgotten i'd said other things
00:02:33 <oerjan> my question about the algorithm was because my attempts at changing one letter at a time failed
00:02:58 <oerjan> although removing one helped
00:03:23 <ais523> well, send→kind and send→undo are both distance 2
00:03:28 <ais523> so you'd have to guess from what it does
00:03:44 <oerjan> no, undo doesn't work with the distance lambdabot uses
00:04:14 <ais523> wait, it's distance 3 I think
00:04:15 <oerjan> lambdabot doesn't correct unless the closest one is unique
00:04:33 <ais523> distances are hard to calculate in your head!
00:04:36 <lambdabot> Error: expected a Haskell expression or declaration
00:04:44 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wn undo kind id bid
00:05:19 <oerjan> hm what happened there
00:05:31 <ais523> it's probably an identity command?
00:05:45 <oerjan> it cannot have corrected to @id
00:05:46 <ais523> how do you chain commands anyway
00:05:50 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
00:05:53 <lambdabot> @@ executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used.
00:05:53 <lambdabot> The commands are right associative.
00:05:53 <lambdabot> is the same as: @@ (@pl (@undo code))
00:06:00 <oerjan> which probably means it's a prefix
00:06:02 <lambdabot> Plugin `compose' failed with: Unknown command: "send"
00:06:03 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: undo kind index id
00:06:27 <ais523> I think I understand what @id does now
00:06:42 <oerjan> ais523: unfortunately the correction only works for the first command
00:07:36 <oerjan> anyway, @ind -> @index, by the other correction rule
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00:08:10 <lambdabot> index <ident>. Returns the Haskell modules in which <ident> is defined
00:08:30 <ais523> so why does that output "bzzt" if given no input?
00:08:35 <lambdabot> Control.Monad, Prelude, Control.Monad.Instances
00:09:50 <oerjan> that's a strange choice of modules
00:10:08 <oerjan> it cannot be defined in all of them, and it's definitely exported from more
00:11:19 <lambdabot> git clone https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot
00:11:44 <hppavilion> I just learned that Codecademy has a "Pro" feature
00:18:09 <oerjan> hppavilion: just sign up for the world communist revolution hth
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00:24:15 <hppavilion> oerjan: I'm kind of tempted to start my own, one with more information on CS theory and stuff too. But knowing me...
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00:36:31 <hppavilion> \oren\: Canaima seems to have been renamed to Kukenán (with intermediate updates Kerepakupai, Auyantepui, and Roraima)
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00:48:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46878&oldid=46877 * H3LL * (+4) /* Overview */
00:52:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46879&oldid=46878 * H3LL * (+0) /* Operator */
00:53:38 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46880&oldid=46879 * H3LL * (+1) /* Comparison operator */
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00:56:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46881&oldid=46880 * H3LL * (+1) /* Example programs */
00:58:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46882&oldid=46881 * H3LL * (+90) /* Example programs */
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01:01:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46883&oldid=46882 * H3LL * (+15) /* Hello World! */
01:02:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46884&oldid=46883 * H3LL * (+2) /* [Hello, World!|Hello World!] */
01:03:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46885&oldid=46884 * H3LL * (+0) /* Hello, World! */
01:04:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46886&oldid=46885 * H3LL * (+1) /* Example programs */
01:05:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46887&oldid=46886 * H3LL * (+1)
01:07:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46888&oldid=46887 * H3LL * (+1) /* Confusion */
01:08:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46889&oldid=46888 * H3LL * (+2)
01:11:01 * Sgeo starts reading about DCSS again
01:11:15 <Sgeo> So, Distortion-branded stuff can be strong but is dangerous to unweild?
01:12:22 <int-e> "department of child support services" beats it on google though
01:12:24 <Sgeo> Oh reading the strategy suggests that it's not so great
01:14:31 <Sgeo> http://crawl.chaosforge.org/Distortion
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01:14:56 <hppavilion> Sgeo: That was a pun about the massive tower of edits, but I was going to ask that anyway :P
01:15:27 <Moon_> `ciol rFizzie beleives ciol is turing complete;
01:16:22 <HackEgo> Fizzie beleives ciol is turing complete
01:16:38 <Moon_> would you say that is corrent hppavilion
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01:17:18 <Moon_> Fizzie thinks CIOL is turing complete
01:21:55 <int-e> it's a plausible belief too
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01:28:48 * boily you are trying to reach is currently suffering from hot sauce. holy fungot that shit's legit.
01:28:48 <fungot> boily: i know. the gui stuff is drscheme specific.
01:29:33 <fungot> hppavilion: don't tell bush
01:29:46 <hppavilion> fungot: God no. Though I hear he's a rather excellent painter now.
01:29:46 <fungot> hppavilion: you have to. i usually make " mind maps", because it often isn't, but if global warming continues, at least
01:29:59 <boily> hppavellon. oerjan.
01:30:04 <boily> uuuh... hellørjan.
01:30:33 <boily> Blair's Ultra Death.
01:30:51 <fungot> int-e: do as much of a hint that i included in the arguments counted in length. one end is pointed, the other isnt
01:31:10 <int-e> and that was even better
01:31:25 * hppavilion idly wonders what would happen if we made a sentient kernel and plugged in fungot
01:31:25 <fungot> hppavilion: we never saw that
01:31:35 <hppavilion> fungot: Yeah, that's why I wonder what it'd be like
01:31:35 <fungot> hppavilion: is it? stack-based?) you're not allowed to touch them at all,
01:34:09 <HackEgo> philosophy is at the root of everything.
01:34:29 <oerjan> `` sed -i sapaPa wisdom/philosophy
01:34:43 <HackEgo> Philosophy is at the root of everything.
01:35:06 <int-e> . o O ( s/is/gets/ )
01:35:37 <oerjan> pretty sure is was intended.
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01:37:09 <int-e> / is hard to pronounce
01:37:58 <oerjan> <prooftechnique> You cannot get to philosophy from insurance (insert jokes here) <-- ooh
01:38:21 <oerjan> prooftechnique: how did you discover that
01:40:47 <hppavilion> (I follow the strategy in which you also exclude things in parentheses, on top of italics)
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01:41:54 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wallstreet: not found
01:41:57 <HackEgo> latin/LATINA EST SUBLIMISSIMA LINGUA MUNDI
01:42:07 <HackEgo> gaspatsjo/gaspatsjo is a norwegian soup, which died out due to a lack of hot summer days
01:42:09 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: stupidity: not found
01:43:15 <oerjan> hppavilion: how was he wrong?
01:43:45 <hppavilion> oerjan: And I followed the first link on each page to philosophy
01:43:58 <hppavilion> In finitely-many steps, with no editing in between :P
01:44:16 <lambdabot> ENVA 292350Z 11014KT CAVOK 08/M01 Q1018 RMK WIND 670FT 14020G31KT
01:44:21 <lambdabot> CYUL 300000Z 08009KT 30SM OVC250 10/M11 A3011 RMK CI8 SLP200
01:44:33 <oerjan> hppavilion: that doesn't describe how he was wrong, since i did the same and never got to philosophy.
01:45:53 <oerjan> you realize that you are being unhelpful by not saying which pages you visited, right?
01:46:18 <oerjan> (mine were the same as prooftechnique afaict)
01:46:54 <oerjan> i'm sure you have some kind of twisting of the intent in mind.
01:48:21 <hppavilion> Insurance -> risk management -> risk -> physical health
01:48:30 <oerjan> physical health is in parentheses.
01:49:26 <hppavilion> The solution is clearly to scrap it all and start over.
01:49:41 * hppavilion goes to the center of the internet and starts dismantling it
01:49:47 <oerjan> (so do i. i mean how can not deal efficiently with this sockpuppet i've been whacking. but i digress.)
01:50:32 <boily> hppavilion: there is no center of the internet. every point of the internet is its center.
01:51:22 <hppavilion> boily: Um, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh7lp9umG2I hth
01:53:05 * boily wants to thwack hppavilion, but he makes a good point there
01:54:28 <int-e> boily: Well I don't see how that's stopping you from thwacking.
01:54:58 * boily merrily thwacks hppavilion
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02:07:17 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: line 4: marsha: command not found
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02:16:54 <tswett> to solve this Sudoku puzzle by making a bunch of permutation grids.
02:17:10 <tswett> And by "permutation grid" I mean a grid representing an unknown permutation of a set.
02:17:54 <tswett> Say, a 5x5 grid, representing a permutation of 5 elements. Each row is an element, as is each column. You blacken a square to indicate that it is not part of the permutation.
02:18:07 <tswett> Eventually you'll end up with exactly one white square in every row and in every column.
02:20:09 <quintopia> there are a lot of permutations in sudoku
02:20:20 <quintopia> this seems as if it would take more time than it's worth
02:20:33 <tswett> But this is a pretty difficult puzzle.
02:20:54 <quintopia> have you tried all of the other logical techniques?
02:22:19 <quintopia> look at the list of techniques on the side: http://www.sudokuwiki.org/sudoku.htm
02:26:35 <tswett> Now that looks interesting.
02:28:13 <tswett> All right. By spending five or ten minutes making this grid here, I've successfully determined that by looking at just this row, I can't find out anything more about this row.
02:31:41 <tswett> I think my most promising approach here is to look at the alternatives for this huge tree of alternating pairs.
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02:44:04 <tswett> Nothing really interesting has turned up so far.
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02:57:44 <tswett> Well gee. Assuming I did everything exactly right, I've found an inconsistency in one of the possibilities.
02:57:47 <tswett> You know what that means.
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03:02:04 <tswett> And with that figured out, it looks like the rest of the puzzle is collapsing.
03:02:04 <tswett> There, I solved the whole thing in less than two hours!
03:24:10 <tswett> quintopia: looks like it's missing naked and hidden quadruples!
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04:04:16 <tswett> Oh, it does have naked quads.
04:07:17 <tswett> hppavilion: woohoo! \o/
04:07:38 <tswett> You're goddamn fucking welcome.
05:00:37 <hppavilion> tswett: The phrase "Mr. President" in the US disturbs me
05:01:39 <pikhq> What's disturbing about it?
05:02:02 <pikhq> Keeping in mind that it's intended as an alternative to "Your Highness".
05:03:25 <hppavilion> pikhq: But "Dr. President" gives off at least the facade that the individual in power is smrt.
05:04:23 <hppavilion> Why doesn't *n?x have a part of the directory tree called "/sht"
05:05:25 <pikhq> I'm afraid that you're unlikely to see "Dr. President" as the term of address. Both because it seems unlikely that we'll have a President with a doctorate, and it seems unlikely we'll add "Dr." to the title.
05:07:04 <pikhq> Oh, actually, we have had at least one President with a doctorate.
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05:07:16 <pikhq> Obama has a Juris Doctor.
05:07:31 <pikhq> So, y'know, there's that.
05:07:46 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States_by_education
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05:08:17 <pikhq> Oh, didn't know Wilson had a Ph.D.
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05:09:01 <shachaf> Perhaps "Dr." is an abbreviation of "Dear".
05:09:58 <shachaf> Just get an honorary doctorate.
05:10:55 <pikhq> Just get a non-accredited degree.
05:11:35 <oerjan> Dr. shachaf i think you're stretching it
05:12:33 <hppavilion> shachaf: The fact that "fictitious academic degrees" is not a wikipedia page makes me sad
05:13:00 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_honorary_degrees
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05:13:35 <shachaf> You could become a Hon. D.A., if you're a car.
05:13:44 <hppavilion> oerjan: Those aren't strictly "fictitious" so much as "useless"
05:14:19 <pikhq> They are inarguably real honorary degrees.
05:15:05 * oerjan gives hppavilion an honorary swatting for misdirection -----###
05:15:37 <hppavilion> shachaf: Anti-doctorate: A mandatory degree forced upon stupid people upon achieving enough stupid to teach stupid at a university level
05:16:18 <shachaf> oerjan: i feel like all my swattings have been dishonorary
05:16:50 <oerjan> trust your feelings, Dr. shachaf
05:16:54 <pikhq> I'm pretty certain that would be a St.D. A Stultus Doctor.
05:17:19 <shachaf> there's a hole in the bucket, dr. oerjan, dr. oerjan
05:17:40 <oerjan> because all the sciences descend from philosophy
05:18:07 <hppavilion> Anybody who gets a doctorate in geology should be referred to as a "Rocktor"
05:18:18 <oerjan> anyway, i'd have you know i have a genuine Doctor Scientiarum degree hth
05:18:36 <pikhq> Because "philosophiae" here is not referring to the present-day academic field of philosophy, but rather the original meaning, "love of wisdom".
05:18:40 <shachaf> philosophy comes from the greek meaning "love of one's own voice"
05:19:02 <pikhq> Which is to say that most academic study was considered "philosophy".
05:19:06 <oerjan> hm maybe that is just Scientiae
05:19:42 <oerjan> it's abbr. D.Sc., anyway.
05:19:45 <pikhq> So, just another instance of an outdated use of a term.
05:19:50 <pikhq> Just like "Christian Science".
05:19:53 <shachaf> hm, or was it "love of phyllo dough"
05:21:53 <oerjan> love of false etymology
05:22:58 <shachaf> oerjan: etymology is subjective hth
05:25:15 <shachaf> itymology is certainly more popular in this channel
05:25:55 <oerjan> `learn Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement.
05:26:22 <HackEgo> Learned 'itymology': Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement.
05:27:49 <HackEgo> itym "i think you mean" hth
05:28:42 <oerjan> sounds like a Durkon proverb
05:29:49 <shachaf> i wish there was an olist search
05:29:57 <shachaf> and that each strip came with a transcription
05:30:14 <shachaf> i feel like there was a phrase similar to that somewhere
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05:32:53 <oerjan> http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html
05:33:11 <shachaf> also http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0170.html
05:45:44 <fowl> Need an irc bot that can be GM https://1d4chan.org/images/7/70/EVERYONE_IS_JOHN.png
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06:09:18 <HackEgo> Phantom_Hoover int-e hppavilion b_jonas boily a`a`a`a`jo7as a`a`a`a`jo8as a`a`a`a`jo3as a`a`a`a`jo6as a`a`a`a`jo5as a`a`a`a`jo4as a`a`a`a`jo2as a`a`a`a`jo1as a`a`a`a`jonas0 a`a`a`a lambdabot chicken_jonas myname
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06:34:50 <fowl> hppavilion, i have taken popular opinion under advisement and decided to flip-flop
06:46:20 <Sgeo> "As a cryptographer for the U.S. government during WWII, he developed the first unbreakable cipher."
06:46:33 <Sgeo> How many unbreakable ciphers are there? I thought there was just one?
06:47:22 <coppro> two if you count quantum cryptography as distinct
06:47:34 <coppro> though really it's just a way of making an OTP
06:47:45 <coppro> we really need One True Pairing-based crypto
06:59:50 <Lymia> Aren't there other "unbreakable" schemes too?
07:00:09 <Lymia> Stuff like Shamir's Secret Sharing
07:00:27 <zzo38> Secret sharing is not a ordinary kind of cipher though
07:01:57 <zzo38> I do know how secret sharing works; one way is to decide a point and make any number of equations of lines that pass through that point. With one line you cannot figure it out but with any two lines they intersect at the one point. With the proper way to encode the data and decide the point so that it cannot "leak", it should be safe.
07:07:15 <hppavilion> But the shell restarted and I forgot to re-update some variables (and bash is stupid and treats unassigned variables as the null string)
07:07:33 <hppavilion> And I can't remember what I did to make it work last time
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08:53:31 <gamemanj> I'm still thinking I should put on a cloak so I can travel across the world, but how...
08:54:30 <fowl> gamemanj, ask in #freenode
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11:26:53 <izabera> does anyone know a service like archive.org that ignores robots.txt?
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12:25:54 <fizzie> I'd like to qualify my statement that it was assuming a tape of unlimited length.
12:29:08 <fizzie> @tell ais523 Re breaking out of loops: the spec doesn't make it clear, but unlike [, the CIOL ] actually does the Brainfuck thing, tests for the current cell being nonzero.
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13:10:09 <Melvar> gamemanj: Hamming distance ≤ 2.
13:11:50 <Melvar> The actual command being @messages-loud .
13:13:47 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
13:14:35 <Melvar> Sometimes random short words will turn out to be a valid command, and then great fun can be had trying to figure out what command was actually triggered.
13:14:48 <Melvar> Oh, you just found that out by yourself.
13:15:02 <gamemanj> Either Melvar is very fast at typing or Melvar predicted the future
13:15:16 <Melvar> I was already typing that, as the followup indicates.
13:15:58 <fizzie> The fabled "trainfuck" language.
13:16:09 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs: 1: 1:Parse error: ++++++++
13:16:20 <gamemanj> Ok, I give up, I don't understand lambdabot anymore
13:16:30 <Melvar> fizzie: You know, I’m sure there’s porn of trains fucking. Certainly I’ve seen planes.
13:16:57 <fizzie> dt was probably ft from the ft module.
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13:17:04 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
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13:17:25 <int-e> you're always tempting me to disable that feature
13:17:27 <gamemanj> todo: make a hackego <nick>++ script of some sort
13:17:28 <fizzie> "ft <ident>. Generate theorems for free"
13:17:59 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl let id faq do bf @ ? .
13:18:01 <fizzie> And ip probably turned into id.
13:18:14 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl let id faq do bf @ ? .
13:18:17 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: wn v rc pl let id faq do bf @ ? .
13:18:34 <fizzie> The "Maybe you meant:" was referring to your @ft, not whatever you said after it.
13:18:59 <lambdabot> Translate Monad operators to do notation.
13:19:10 <int-e> different kinds of command lookup
13:19:14 <fizzie> I got 'ft' from a random COMMANDS file from the webs.
13:19:23 <fizzie> But seems that it's stale.
13:19:26 <lambdabot> Pattern match failure in do expression at src/Lambdabot/Plugin/Haskell/Free/FreeTheorem.hs:54:21-35
13:19:50 <int-e> also... apparently... it's not very robust
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13:22:07 <gamemanj> lambdabot's anti-botloop seems to consist of prefixing everything with a space if the user had anything to do with it
13:22:27 <int-e> that's the idea... and there are some known holes in it
13:22:57 <gamemanj> @id "\nPRIVMSG #esoteric :hello"
13:23:03 <gamemanj> Apparently that is not one of them
13:24:06 <gamemanj> @bf ++++++++[>++++>++++++++++<<-]++++++++++>>---><<<.>>><[->+>+<<]>+++.++.---------.+++++++++++++.---------.++++++.------------.<<.>>------------------------------------.[-]>[-<+<+>>]<--------.++++++++++++++.----.+++++.---------------.+++++++++++++.---------.------.<<.>>---------.++++++++++++++.---.+++++++..+++.<<<.>>>
13:24:46 <int-e> It's too bad that NOTICE doesn't work as intended in the IRC RFC...
13:25:00 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
13:25:15 <gamemanj> ... there's nothing about echo on that helptext...
13:25:27 <int-e> (the RFC says, bots should reply to PRIVMSG with NOTICE and never reply to NOTICE at all)
13:25:51 <int-e> But some clients are really annoying when a NOTICE is received... so nobody uses it.
13:26:14 <gamemanj> they treat a NOTICE like a NOTICE instead of a message + a little bit of metadata
13:26:15 <Melvar> int-e: Wasn’t there a thing where the most widespread client was really really bad in several ways and this has misshaped IRC forever?
13:26:35 <int-e> Sure, we still suffer the mirc color codes, for example
13:27:17 <Melvar> Because idris-bot produces color, I have actually had to contend with misimplementations of those color codes. -_____-
13:27:25 <fizzie> Yeah, ^help only covers the builtins.
13:27:36 <gamemanj> it's an awfully complicated echo...
13:27:46 <fizzie> It's not that complicated.
13:27:51 <fungot> I hear an echo? I hear an echo?
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13:27:56 <gamemanj> wait, a sec, it's writing it twice
13:28:02 <fizzie> gamemanj: Sure, it's *echoing*.
13:28:32 <fizzie> ^reverb Reverberating.
13:28:32 <fungot> RReevveerrbbeerraattiinngg..
13:28:41 <fizzie> There's also that, along those lines.
13:29:24 <Melvar> So, you know how the color codes go ^Cmm or ^Cmm,nn ? I’ve found out that at least one client parses “^Cmm,” as though it were “^Cmm”, so that hilighted commas get lost entirely.
13:30:49 <Melvar> But only the one client I think so far displayed that particular problem.
13:33:58 <gamemanj> anyway, let's see how ^echo reacts to colourcodes
13:34:09 <fungot> bleudcliadm bleudcliadm
13:35:30 <gamemanj> ^echo the FSM of the colors causes a reinterpretation.
13:35:30 <fungot> the FSM of the colors causes a reinterpretation. the FSM of the colors causes a reinterpretation.
13:37:11 <gamemanj> ^echo 04 There are differences between these sentences.
13:37:11 <fungot> 04 There are differences between these sentences. 04 There are differences between these sentences.
13:37:52 <gamemanj> so control sequences can't cross the "boundary"
13:37:56 <Melvar> It puts a space in between.
13:40:42 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input ‘:’
13:40:52 <idris-bot> Command "\ETX04type" not permitted.
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15:42:52 <\oren\> hmm looks like they line up to me
15:46:33 <HackEgo> [U+2502 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT VERTICAL] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+007C VERTICAL LINE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+2502 BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT VERTICAL]
15:47:36 <HackEgo> [U+239C LEFT PARENTHESIS EXTENSION] [U+239F RIGHT PARENTHESIS EXTENSION] [U+23A2 LEFT SQUARE BRACKET EXTENSION] [U+23A5 RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET EXTENSION] [U+23AA CURLY BRACKET EXTENSION] [U+23AE INTEGRAL EXTENSION]
15:49:37 <HackEgo> [U+16C1 RUNIC LETTER ISAZ IS ISS I] [U+FFDC HALFWIDTH HANGUL LETTER I] [U+FE31 PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL EM DASH] [U+FE32 PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL EN DASH] [U+FE33 PRESENTATION FORM FOR VERTICAL LOW LINE] [U+2223 DIVIDES] [U+2225 PARALLEL TO]
15:50:51 <\oren\> man there are a lot of characters that look like vertical lines
15:54:16 <HackEgo> [U+0964 DEVANAGARI DANDA] [U+0965 DEVANAGARI DOUBLE DANDA] [U+FF5C FULLWIDTH VERTICAL LINE]
15:54:46 <HackEgo> [U+01C0 LATIN LETTER DENTAL CLICK] [U+01C1 LATIN LETTER LATERAL CLICK]
15:55:04 <\oren\> oh yeah I forgot those
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16:12:06 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
16:12:13 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
16:12:35 <HackEgo> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
16:12:45 <int-e> now that was redundant
16:13:11 <\oren\> argh my ssh connection is screwy
16:13:28 <\oren\> it's sending a lot faster than it recieves
16:14:03 <\oren\> hmmm... maybe I should kill some of these chrome windows
16:15:42 <idris-bot> (input):1:3:Can't disambiguate since no name has a suitable type:
16:15:42 <idris-bot> Data.Fin.fromInteger, Prelude.Interfaces.fromInteger
16:16:23 <idris-bot> (&) : (a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> a -> c
16:16:54 <\oren\> gamemanj: I was testing to see if my arrows line up with my box drawers propery
16:17:27 <\oren\> wait wtf, & is fucntion composition or somethin?!
16:17:33 <gamemanj> ...oren: "いえい" "Portrait of deceased person" according to a translator...
16:17:50 <gamemanj> oren: You're either using really weird ligatures...
16:18:01 <Melvar> ( 5 `prim__andBigInt` 3
16:18:06 <gamemanj> oren: or you have an interesting system for choosing test words.
16:18:19 <\oren\> gamemanj: your translator is very outdared
16:18:28 <gamemanj> oren: Tell that to Google Translate :)
16:18:38 <\oren\> gamemanj: in real life japanese いえい is "YAY"
16:19:31 <HackEgo> U+3044 HIRAGANA LETTER I \ UTF-8: e3 81 84 UTF-16BE: 3044 Decimal: い \ い \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+3048 HIRAGANA LETTER E \ UTF-8: e3 81 88 UTF-16BE: 3048 Decimal: え \ え \ Category: Lo (Letter, Other) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right) \ \ U+3044 HIRAGANA LETTER I \ UTF-8: e3 81 84 UTF-16BE: 3044
16:20:08 <Melvar> \oren\: (&) is reverse function composition. Note that | is a keyword, so you can’t have an operator (|), so using (&) for any sort of and doesn’t make much sense.
16:21:25 <Melvar> lambdabot thinks it should be reverse function application instead, but I disagree.
16:26:07 <quintopia> tswett: < tswett> quintopia: looks like it's missing naked and hidden quadruples! <--- "Naked quads" is right underneath "Hidden Pairs/Triples"
16:28:08 <gamemanj> the significance of this being...
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16:36:55 <lambdabot> Foldable t => (a -> Bool) -> t a -> Bool
16:38:03 <Melvar> @quickcheck \p m => maybe True p m == all p m
16:38:10 <Melvar> @qc \p m => maybe True p m == all p m
16:38:42 <int-e> @check \p m => maybe True p m == all p m
16:38:42 <lambdabot> <unknown>.hs: 1: 6:Parse error: =>
16:38:51 <int-e> @check \p m. maybe True p m == all p m
16:38:56 <Melvar> @check \p m -> maybe True p m == all p m
16:39:09 <int-e> too many functional programming languages
16:39:17 <Melvar> @check \p m -> maybe False p m == any p m
16:39:30 <Melvar> I wonder how its instantiating the type variable.
16:39:41 <int-e> (=> is ML; . is used in Isabelle... technically not a programming language, but there's a significant fragment that feels like one)
16:40:03 <Melvar> => is also used in Idris, that’s why I made that mistake.
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16:44:31 <Melvar> What is an optic that enables one to update multiple elements inside a structure simultaneously with the same function?
16:46:25 -!- jaboja has joined.
17:03:15 <Melvar> Hm. What if you can also retrieve multiple elements?
17:16:56 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
17:18:49 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,2,3] | .[0,2] = 7'
17:19:28 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
17:20:32 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,2,3] | .[0,2] |= . + 4'
17:21:02 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,2,3] | .[0,2]'
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17:26:13 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,[2,3],4] | recurse
17:26:16 <HackEgo> /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 4: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ /hackenv/bin/`: eval: line 5: syntax error: unexpected end of file
17:26:18 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,[2,3],4] | recurse'
17:26:20 <HackEgo> [1,[2,3],4] \ 1 \ [2,3] \ 2 \ 3 \ 4
17:26:34 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,[2,3],4] | recurse | numbers'
17:26:53 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,[2,3],4] | (recurse | numbers) |= . + 4'
17:28:39 <Melvar> Neat. I wasn’t sure that was possible.
17:28:55 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,[2,3],4] | (recurse | select(. > 2)) |= . + 4'
17:28:59 <HackEgo> jq: error (at <unknown>): array ([1,[2,3],4]) and number (4) cannot be added
17:29:21 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,[2,3],4] | (recurse | numbers | select(. > 2)) |= . + 4'
17:30:21 <Melvar> `` jq -cn '[1,[2,3],4] | (recurse | arrays | . | numbers) |= . + 4'
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19:55:54 <hppavilion> boily: I got a cross-compiler almost working yesterday, but I accidentally used two different prefixes
19:56:12 <boily> cross-compiling is insanely hard.
19:57:20 <quintopia> oh. sounds like an exciting saturday
19:57:38 <quintopia> i'm back at starbucks. one more hour of writing before april is over
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19:58:28 <boily> it was more fun this morning. the grilf and I had a nice Saturday morning walk, with croissants, random boutiques, food, sun, crumbling civil engineering...
19:58:52 <boily> gamellomanj. "girlfriend" hth.
19:59:05 <boily> @localtime quintopia
19:59:06 <lambdabot> Local time for quintopia is Sat Apr 30 14:59:05 2016
19:59:18 <boily> you still have plenty of hours left!
19:59:31 <gamemanj> I'm still not sure what it is with the name "gamemanj" and being twisted in every single conceivable manner
19:59:43 <boily> you were porthelloed hth
19:59:48 <gamemanj> ...wait a sec, crumbling civil engineering?
20:00:29 <hppavilion> gamemanj: Didn't you know boilia's civil engineering is crumbling?
20:00:31 <boily> our bridges, overpasses, highway interchanges, roads, sidewalks are in advanced décrépitude.
20:00:49 <boily> hppavilion: btw, I'm not a civil engineer. I only did computer engineering in school hth
20:00:50 <gamemanj> ...in which case I suggest not standing on those bridges and overpasses.
20:01:00 <boily> . o O ( what's the right word for "décrépitude"? )
20:01:12 <boily> or under them. they even marked the spots for your convenience!
20:01:32 <gamemanj> boily: I'm not sure if you're talking in French or some completely unknown language, but I can infer from context that you probably mean "advanced decay"
20:01:32 <boily> meh, we're waaaay past decay now. world leader in crumbles!
20:01:52 <hppavilion> boily: I'm pretty sure decrepit is an english word
20:02:00 <boily> gamemanj: French, the Québec variant of.
20:02:14 <boily> screw spellcheckers, they're no fun.
20:02:30 <gamemanj> you might as well put the word into a translator
20:02:51 <hppavilion> boily: And even though english doesn't /strictly/ let you make up words on-the-fly, nobody adheres to the giveafuckist view in english-speaking countries
20:03:08 <hppavilion> gamemanj: I already thought decrepit was an english word; I was just checking
20:03:46 * hppavilion absentmindedly wonders what a grilf is, suspecting that it's "girlfriend"
20:04:06 <gamemanj> So I'm not the only person not paying attention to the IRC window most of the time!
20:04:20 <quintopia> i think decrepitude is an acceptable english word
20:04:25 <boily> I also didn't invent the term → http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/grilf.html
20:04:39 <gamemanj> hppavilion: <gamemanj> "grilf"? <boily> gamellomanj. "girlfriend" hth.
20:05:40 <quintopia> boily: hopefully you also didn't invent the concept. (are you secretly boilazarus?)
20:05:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:05:57 <hppavilion> IRC is an interesting interface; chat-by-topic (as opposed to chat-by-person). It's a shame that the younger generation isn't exposed to it as much.
20:06:16 <gamemanj> so anyway on my plans for world domination and forced IRC usage by all able persons
20:06:27 <boily> hppavilion: people are all over Slack nowadays.
20:06:48 <quintopia> hppavilion: i think group messages tend to have a topic with various degrees of stickiness
20:07:01 <hppavilion> Then again, even if the younger generation /was/ exposed to it, they wouldn't use it because STRANGER DANGER DON'T TALK TO ANYONE YOU DIDN'T MEET FACE-TO-FACE ETC
20:07:21 <gamemanj> ah, yes, the good old *EVERYBODY YOU DO NOT KNOW IS EVIL*
20:07:30 <hppavilion> boily: Never heard of it. Maybe it's not a 'murican thing.
20:07:40 <quintopia> boily: and what do you plan on doing with the rest of your day
20:07:53 <Phantom_Hoover> who are you actually talking about when you refer to the ~younger generation~
20:07:59 <hppavilion> gamemanj: I remember finding "don't-talk-to-strangers" to be bullshit from a young age
20:08:26 <Phantom_Hoover> like i remember getting drilled about not talking to strangers when i was a child and if you're going to say that it kept my generation off irc then loooooool
20:08:51 <gamemanj> hppavilion: I do wonder how on earth the population isn't going down
20:08:53 <hppavilion> Phantom_Hoover: I think it's more effective this time around because they have cherry-picked evidence this time
20:08:58 <quintopia> Phantom_Hoover: all i got was don't talk to strangers when we're not around unless they know the secret code word
20:09:11 <quintopia> ESPECIALLY DONT GO WITH THEM UNLESS THEY GIVE YOU THE CODEWORD
20:09:18 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion, do you actually know anyone in their early teens
20:09:23 <gamemanj> hppavilion: if everybody followed those rules we'd all die out from inbreeding...
20:09:33 <boily> quintopia: finish laundry, nap, cook, eat, then disappear birthdaying a friend hth.
20:09:43 <boily> there'S a secret codeword?
20:10:04 <boily> fungot: remember chariots hth
20:10:04 <fungot> boily: oklotalk is just one conditional statement spread over two lines, one can use bfm without any macros/ syntax, what would be a problem in an earlier era, we'd say " evoli makes google eyes at riastradh"
20:10:27 <boily> quintopia: are you writing like there's no tomorrow up until late at night?
20:10:34 <boily> aaaaah! this kind of codeword.
20:10:59 <quintopia> i'm writing for one hour and then cleaning for one hour and then...gaming?
20:11:16 <quintopia> was going to invite you to game but you appear to be busy hth
20:11:36 <quintopia> maybe i'll go out and do board gaming
20:12:07 <quintopia> or stay in and finish season 2 of the almighty johnsons
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20:12:37 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
20:12:44 <gamemanj> ^def codeword bf ++++++++[>++++>++++++++++<<-]++++++++++>>---><[->+>+<<]>----------.+++++.-------.+++++++++++++++++.---------.++++++.+++++.-.<<<.>>>
20:12:47 * hppavilion . o O ( What do actual Norwegians think of The Almighty Johnsons? )
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20:13:27 <gamemanj> ^def codeword bf ++++++++[>++++>++++++++++<<-]++++++++++>>---><[->+>+<<]>+++++++.-----.--.------------.+++++++++++++++++++.-----.----------.++++++++++++++.<<<.>>>
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20:14:03 <hppavilion> ^def codeword bf -[--->+<]>-.-----.--.------------.>-[--->+<]>-.-----.+[-->+<]>+++++.-[-->+++<]>+.--.>-[--->+<]>---..+++++++.>-[------->+<]>.+++++.-------.+[->++++<]>.+[->++<]>+.+++++.-------.>-[--->+<]>---.---------.++++++.+++++.-.
20:14:08 <fungot> TOMATO-CARRYING CHARIOTS
20:14:27 <gamemanj> so I'm not the only one with a BF string generator, though the one hppavilion uses seems more... optimized?
20:14:52 <gamemanj> though I'm a bit confused as to what on earth it's doing
20:15:14 <gamemanj> no, it's using some pretty obvious patterns
20:15:29 <hppavilion> gamemanj: Yeah, an evolutionary algorithm that uses patterns.
20:15:35 <gamemanj> like: -[--->+<] which only works in an 8-bit wrapping environment
20:15:41 <hppavilion> gamemanj: It detects certain obvious patterns because they're obvious
20:16:19 <quintopia> !bf-txtgen what was this command called again
20:17:36 <hppavilion> Oh, ++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++++++++>+++++++<<<-]>++++>+>+>,[[<.>-]<<<.>.>++.--<++.-->>,]
20:18:30 <hppavilion> ^def badbftxtgen bf ++++++[>+++++++>+++++++++++++++>+++++++<<<-]>++++>+>+>,[[<.>-]<<<.>.>++.--<++.-->>,]
20:18:35 <quintopia> seems straightforward enough. you just have to read in a character, then output a >, n +s and a .
20:18:46 <fungot> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ...
20:19:03 <quintopia> that'd be shorter with a > instead of a [-]
20:19:30 <hppavilion> quintopia: But OTOH, this way it can handle unbounded input in a bounded environment
20:20:33 <hppavilion> If #esoteric had an official LISP, what commands would it have?
20:20:55 <quintopia> hppavilion: i have yet to meet one
20:21:34 <quintopia> our lisp would have car, cdr, eval, print, die, kick, and destroy-earth
20:22:28 <hppavilion> (all (imagine (! countries)) (imagine (! (any (thingtofor kill) (thingtofor die))) (imagine (! religion)))
20:24:31 <quintopia> hppavilion: sure. throw in "and" "or" and "not" i guess
20:25:12 <hppavilion> quintopia: Wait, are there any functionally-complete ternary operators?
20:25:51 <quintopia> SUBLEQ is turing-complete when it can take unbounded addresses
20:26:15 <hppavilion> quintopia: I mean like nand is functionally-complete
20:27:29 <quintopia> hppavilion: so...you want some three argument logic unit that can be used to be arbitrary circuits?
20:27:55 <hppavilion> quintopia: Perhaps with multiple outputs, if preferred
20:28:20 <hppavilion> quintopia: I want something that uses all 3 arguments
20:28:46 <hppavilion> Speaking of which, is there a nice notation for writing boolean-like logic where the gates might have multiple outputs?
20:29:06 <hppavilion> quintopia: I take it that, if someone asks you to express pi as a fraction, you say pi/1?
20:30:00 <quintopia> depends. do they specify that it must be a ratio of integers? but what you're asking is more like "can you express five as a fraction?" and getting upset at me answer "5/1?"
20:31:20 <quintopia> what is bajillion? is this some tv show or podcast/
20:33:13 <quintopia> so boily disappeared without saying a word. i will not do this
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20:38:32 <gamemanj> I have a "really slightly optimized" BF from text generator in BF, but it doesn't like input chars under 45 due to some performance optimizations.
20:39:10 <gamemanj> Well, I say performance optimizations...
20:42:32 <hppavilion> gamemanj: I think you predated Thoof. Have I told you about it?
20:43:21 <boily> quintopia: there was a clothesline involved hth
20:43:28 <gamemanj> also, depending on which network you're looking at, which channel, etcetc...
20:43:36 <boily> I am now disappearing by saying a word: fnord!
20:43:38 <gamemanj> "predated" is such a silly word
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20:45:10 <gamemanj> Why does it matter if I predate it...?
20:46:06 <hppavilion> gamemanj: Because you definitely wouldn't have been online when I was designing it, and thus wouldn't have heard of it
20:46:15 <hppavilion> gamemanj: I'm currently designing a version to put in an IRC bot
20:48:21 <gamemanj> I prefer the illusion that I never pre-dated or post-dated anything, and simply drop in on occasion.
20:49:17 <hppavilion> gamemanj: But basically, Thoof was a proof assistant where you prove things by executing s/abc/xyz/ on strings
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20:50:00 <gamemanj> ...I'm confused. First off, is this supposed to be a mathematical proof assistant, or just madness...?
20:50:40 <gamemanj> A successful confusion has been caused.
20:50:52 <hppavilion> gamemanj: You have to declare axioms first (known strings and substitutions)
20:51:04 <hppavilion> gamemanj: Then you set the strings and execute substitutions on them (with various strategies)
20:51:32 <hppavilion> gamemanj: You can't use any substitutions or strings that are not either proved in prior or declared as axioms
20:51:40 <gamemanj> ^def gmj-maybe-improved-bf-txt bf ++++++++++[->>+++++++++<<]>>[--<++<+>>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<+++<+<--.........++>.<.+++++++++++++++++.-------------------.....+++++++++++++++++.--------------->>.>,[<<<[->>>->+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<<<.<.>>.<<+++++++++++++++++.----------------->.<.+++++++++++++++.-----------------.+++++++++++++++++++..-------------------.+++++++++++++++++.--------------->>.<<+++++++++++++++++.-------
20:51:41 <gamemanj> ---------->.<.+++++++++++++++.-----------------.+++++++++++++++++++.----------------->>.<<+++++++++++++++..--------------->>>[-<<<--.++>>>]<<<+.->>>,]
20:52:34 <gamemanj> Note that it was not split into two messages before I pressed "enter"
20:53:59 <Melvar> IRC has a line length limit, and good clients autosplit (rather than letting it be truncated).
20:54:37 <gamemanj> Remember: If a client macerates your text, it's a good client!
20:55:43 <Melvar> Would you prefer part of the text get dropped for everyone but yourself, and you were unable to notice?
20:56:12 <gamemanj> no, I'd prefer the server notified me
20:56:31 <gamemanj> ...then again, some servers might do that using a KILL
20:57:19 <gamemanj> True, it would just be a connection close
20:58:16 <hppavilion> gamemanj: The length limit wouldn't result in you being disconnected unless it was a REALLY long overflow.
20:58:36 <Melvar> I.e. you want a protocol change rather than a preferred client behavior.
20:59:05 <gamemanj> hmm, true, it would be a protocol change... hmm...
21:00:08 <gamemanj> one quick lookup and... it's already been done, some random sheet of numerics says 419 is ERR_LENGTHTRUNCATED on aircd
21:02:45 <gamemanj> Maybe a better solution would be for fungot to allow multi-line command definitions?
21:02:46 <fungot> gamemanj: there are three different index files, at least for now... had to kill them with flamethrowers and radiation. *cough*
21:03:40 <gamemanj> other question: why on earth was "flamethrowers and radiation" even a vaguely possible output
21:04:08 <gamemanj> did someone actually say "flamethrowers and radiation"???
21:04:12 <fungot> hppavilion: am i missing something
21:04:20 <fungot> hppavilion: you'll need a 32-bit interp" you meant " perfect binary tree" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ fnord
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21:05:48 <gamemanj> Ok, fizzie, the truth please: Did you secretly add in the sentence in which fungot was mentioned as an extra parameter, and then ran it through databases until it was capable of coherent response?
21:06:35 <fizzie> And the command was !bf_txtgen, but it's an EgoBot command, and therefore probably not available right now.
21:06:50 <gamemanj> "I admit nothing" (read: fizzie did it)
21:07:48 <fizzie> And there's a way for fungot to run programs longer than fit in a single line, it's just very inconvenient.
21:07:48 <fungot> fizzie: although i fell its kinda is misnamed, since ( error symbol) won't quite do that?
21:08:10 <fizzie> ^str 0 set ++++++++++[->>+++++++++<<]>>[--<++<+>>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<+++<+<--.........++>.<.+++++++++++++++++.-------------------.....+++++++++++++++++.--------------->>.>,[<<<[->>>->+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<<<.<.>>.<<+++++++++++++++++.----------------->.<.+++++++++++++++.-----------------.+++++++++++++++++++..-------------------.+++++++++++++++++.--------------->>.<<+++++++++++++++++.-------
21:08:10 <fungot> Set: ++++++++++[->>+++++++++<<]>>[--<++<+>>]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<+++<+<--.........++>.<.+++++++++++++++++.-------------------.....+++++++++++++++++.--------------->>.>,[<<<[->>>->+<<<<]>>>>[-<<<<+>>>>]<<<.<.>>.<<+++++++++++++++++.----------------->.<.+++++++++++++++.-----------------.+++++++++++++++++++..-------------------.+++++++++++++++++.--------------->>.<<+++++++++++++++++.-------
21:08:21 <gamemanj> since that bot really likes to creep me out...
21:08:23 <fizzie> ^str 0 add ---------->.<.+++++++++++++++.-----------------.+++++++++++++++++++.----------------->>.<<+++++++++++++++..--------------->>>[-<<<--.++>>>]<<<+.->>>,]
21:08:30 <fizzie> And, uh, how did it go again?
21:08:33 <gamemanj> I'll just be taking a "vacation"
21:09:05 <fizzie> I wonder if that was actually def-only.
21:09:11 <fungot> +10[->2+9<2]>2[-2<+2<+>2]<[->+>+<2]>2[-<2+>2]<+3<+<-2.........+2>.<.+17.-19.....+17.-15>2.>,[<3[->3->+<4]>4[-<4+>4]<3.<.>2.<2+17.-17>.<.+15.-17.+19..-19.+17.-15>2.<2+17.-17>.<.+15.-17.+19.-17>2.<2+15..-15>3[-<3-2.+2>3]<3+.->3,]
21:09:18 <fungot> +++++++++[->+++++<][-]>[-<+>>+<]>[-<+>]<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
21:09:18 <fungot> +++++++++[->+++++<][-]>[-<+>>+<]>[-<+>]<<++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>[-<+>>+<]>[-<+>]<<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>[-<+>>+<]>[-<+>]<<++++++++++++++++++++.[-]>[-<+>>+<]>[-<+>]<<++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ...
21:09:37 <fizzie> Yeah, the output length limit is a bit short.
21:11:21 <lifthrasiir> https://github.com/lifthrasiir/unison/commit/c1a1968 *phew*
21:11:43 <lifthrasiir> ancient hangul jamos are too much to do them incremently
21:11:49 <quintopia> fizzie: can you make it output to a stored string as well? and print arbitrary indices of that string?
21:12:11 <fizzie> I don't think I can be bothered.
21:12:11 <lifthrasiir> but I *did* manage to design all the initial jamos (the largest, since there are 6 sets to cover)
21:12:13 <gamemanj> this is some sort of text-based bitmap font format, am I wrong?
21:12:42 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: right. I've designed it since some point in 2015
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21:13:37 <lifthrasiir> I've added lots of latin, greek, cyrillic and some armenian, then turned to hangul and got stuck for some months (also because of the work)
21:15:19 <gamemanj> It seems the glyphs are either 8-wide or 16-wide, like Unifont.
21:15:30 <gamemanj> At least, if I'm interpreting sample.png correctly...
21:15:55 <fizzie> gamemanj: I think there are other widths as well.
21:16:17 <fizzie> I was mostly looking at U+2160 here.
21:16:17 <gamemanj> Everything looks so... aligned.
21:16:27 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: mainly 8 or 16, but there are some glyphs with 8n (n>2) width
21:16:31 <fizzie> Those roman numerals are pretty wide.
21:16:47 <lifthrasiir> anyway, probably 8n only (but I'm not sure how to deal with arabic and so on)
21:17:03 <gamemanj> I thought they were just lots of single chars
21:17:23 <gamemanj> missing useful things, like "character borders"
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21:17:55 <lifthrasiir> there is a live page that you can actually test it
21:19:19 <gamemanj> "Unison defines a subpixel shape"?
21:20:19 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: in short, each pixel has a subpixel shape plus a binary pixel which will be used in the hinting (not yet, but in the future)
21:20:32 <lifthrasiir> so the font can be used as both a bitmap font and a (quirky) vector font
21:21:47 <lifthrasiir> I've also built my own font development system based on the textual files
21:24:36 <lifthrasiir> algorithmic descriptions made things a lot easier for some cases
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21:27:38 <Melvar> lifthrasiir: Is that what the different colors indicate?
21:28:23 <lifthrasiir> Melvar: different parts of glyphs. mainly for the debugging
21:31:01 <gamemanj> There is one important question...
21:31:40 * gamemanj hopes that he did actually find the right one
21:32:05 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: YES. https://lifthrasiir.github.io/unison/sample#u2468
21:36:28 <lifthrasiir> hmm, should I pay attention to color fonts...
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21:37:33 <gamemanj> ...ok, why is it people really like the multiocular O... why does an O need eyes, anyway?
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21:38:16 <int-e> it's one of the scariest Unicode symbols out there
21:39:34 <int-e> I mean it's creepy to be stared at with one eye Ꙩ and slightly less creepy to be stared at with two Ꙭ, but it's outright scary to be stared at, depending on the font, by 7 or 10 ꙮ.
21:39:46 <int-e> (fwiw, those are all small boxes here :P)
21:40:04 <Melvar> gamemanj: Because it was used to write a word meaning “many-eyed”.
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21:40:22 <gamemanj> maybe it exists as a logo of Unicode... "Don't mess with us. We're typographic and linguistic experts... we will be watching from your screen."
21:42:36 <int-e> also we don't like the symbol nearly as much as we could... it's not in the tꙮpic, for example.
21:43:02 <b_jonas> anyway, good evening to all
21:43:22 <HackEgo> krf/KRF is the Norwegian Christian Democratic Party.
21:48:23 <quintopia> int-e: all of your ocular o's appear just fine in konsole :)
21:51:22 <zzo38> Maybe because they didn't know how many eyes seraphim have so they had to guess
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21:55:03 <int-e> quintopia: hmm I guess xterm doesn't do any font substitution. but it does support the symbols if they're present in the selected font.
21:56:35 <zzo38> It is correct; xterm just use whatever is present in the selected font. Some symbols are not supported at all though, such as DEC Technical and downloadable fonts.
21:56:44 <quintopia> zzo38: possibly seraphim only have one eye, but only 7 of them can dance on the head of a pin
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21:58:25 <zzo38> I wanted to make up my own terminal emulator to be better than the existing one including xterm, would also require to design the new font too.
21:58:56 <quintopia> can't you just support an existing more complete font. surely there's a font out there that has all your goals in mind as well
21:59:52 <zzo38> I partially wrote a document of UTCE, once is completed the existing "fixed" font can be partially automatically converted to UTCE, and then the characters which are not included in the existing font, are the wrong width, or are not in Unicode at all, can be added on manually.
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22:00:20 <zzo38> Tables for the ISO 2022 mapping can then be added on, and then it can be in use.
22:00:35 <quintopia> that seems efficient. though it seems strange to me that there could be anything you would need that ISN'T already in unicode
22:01:13 <pikhq> There *are* some encodings with characters that aren't in Unicode.
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22:01:34 <pikhq> Arguably this is a bug in Unicode, but still. Totally the case.
22:01:44 <zzo38> I am guessing there is something like 200 such characters
22:02:04 <zzo38> Unicode is bad for terminal emulation anyways
22:02:35 <pikhq> Well, more accurately complex text layout languages are bad for terminal emulation.
22:02:50 <pikhq> Arabic is hard in a terminal, and it doesn't matter what encoding you use.
22:03:01 <zzo38> Yes, that is true too.
22:04:07 <b_jonas> That's because arabic only has forms of letter ideal for brush calligraphy, no proper printed block form for chiseling into stone.
22:04:13 <quintopia> let's force all arabs to adopt more reasonable orthography
22:04:18 <b_jonas> They should invent a carvable script.
22:04:28 <zzo38> quintopia: No that is not the correct solution
22:04:40 <b_jonas> Mind you, carvable isn't enough:
22:05:06 <int-e> quintopia: we can't even get the britains and the US americans speak the same language
22:05:39 <quintopia> int-e: at least both use orthography which is easily represented in terminals
22:05:49 <zzo38> Complex script such as Arabic is OK for typography (not for terminal emulation though), but the details about composing the complex scripts does not belong in the character set and belongs in the font metric file instead.
22:05:54 <b_jonas> old hungarian runes are completely carveable in wood, that's what it was originally used for, it has almost no horizontal lines so that the wood doesn't split; but it has tons of ligatures, so it's totally unsuitable for a terminal, and I don't think anyone has a computer font engine that can properly produce all the ligatures.
22:06:18 <b_jonas> Unlike latin letters and futhark runes, old hungarian runes weren't carved to _stone_.
22:06:25 <int-e> quintopia: I think you're confusing cause and effect there to some extent
22:07:19 <quintopia> int-e: if you're saying that the use of terminals has forced language to adapt to have more easily terminalized orthography, then you are undermining the thrust of your earlier argument
22:07:42 <b_jonas> The ligatures (and shittons of dropped letters, so that they can carve it with fewer stroke) make realistic old hungarian runes to have a very different look from these no-ligature present day uses of old hungarian runes.
22:07:52 <quintopia> "how do we force all arabs to adopt more terminalizable orthography?" "make them all use terminals and let them figure it out"
22:08:16 <b_jonas> The contemporary fake decorative uses of old hungarian runes look very simlar to the contemporary decorative uses of futhark runes and cirth runes.
22:08:55 <b_jonas> quintopia: well, with terminals you'll have not only the problem of block printing, but also of right to left writing.
22:09:00 <zzo38> Make the format of the font metric file sufficient that you can define Hungarian runes.
22:09:44 <b_jonas> zzo38: yes, you'd either need a fancier font engine for that, or a HUGE font with tons of ligatures pre-generated
22:10:03 <b_jonas> and to pre-generate the ligature, you would probably need a fancy font engine
22:10:11 <b_jonas> because you wouldn't draw them by hand
22:10:35 <b_jonas> The case is sort of similar to hangul syllables.
22:10:37 <pikhq> zzo38: FWIW the rules for composing complex scripts usually *are* in the fonts, not the renderer.
22:10:40 <pikhq> So there's at least that.
22:11:17 <b_jonas> pikhq: it's... complicated, divided between the font and the engine
22:11:27 <pikhq> Of course it can't be that simple.
22:11:29 <int-e> quintopia: I guess it boils down to this... what would the arabic analogue of movable types be?
22:11:41 <pikhq> Wood block printing, probably.
22:11:58 <b_jonas> But probably nobody is interested enough in old hungarian runes to make it worth for him to pay for the development of such an engine.
22:12:02 <pikhq> Much like with the Sinosphere.
22:12:33 <pikhq> (you can *do* movable type with Chinese characters, but wood block printing was the way it was done for a long time)
22:12:52 <b_jonas> int-e: do you mean like lead types?
22:13:19 <zzo38> Wikipedia does not have a lot of information about ligatures in Hungarian runes.
22:13:32 <b_jonas> didn't that go out of fashion now when high quality computerized typesetting is possible and easier than lead types?
22:13:48 <int-e> (if you can't make it from small individual components, making a terminal-as-we-know-it for it will be hard)
22:13:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think commons has enough pictures to illustrate it
22:14:07 <int-e> b_jonas: I'm tracing history.
22:14:10 <b_jonas> pictures of authentic old text that is
22:14:27 <b_jonas> int-e: I mean pictures of actual old use of them
22:14:39 <b_jonas> not just of the no-ligatures often misused current ones
22:15:00 <b_jonas> (the ones where they sometimes don't even know how letters work and write an s rune followed by a z rune instead of an sz rune
22:15:09 <b_jonas> (that was the worst abuse I've seen)
22:15:40 <quintopia> weird to be blinded by a bright sun with this much rain coming down
22:15:46 <b_jonas> writing old hungarian runes left to right also reveals modern use, but that one is actually a GOOD thing
22:16:04 <b_jonas> even if right to left is traditional, the runes were designed to be flipped horizontally, and often are for ligatures
22:16:18 <b_jonas> so you can write it left to right or as a boustrophedon and get something that looks good
22:17:26 <quintopia> why did i get a laptop with a glossy screen
22:17:51 <int-e> you like to know what's going on behind you?
22:18:31 <quintopia> no. mainly because they don't seem to make matte touchscreens
22:18:58 <b_jonas> Oh, the the anglo-saxon nationalists that write everything in English say that they shouldn't be called runes, but I say fuck them, "runes" is a generic word that's applicable not only to futhark, but to any script you carve, including old hungarian runes, cirth, braille (any variant), moon, ogham, etc.
22:19:01 <int-e> (well, that makes sense... but why would anyone want a laptop with a touch screen... oh well)
22:19:30 <b_jonas> So on the internet you find all sorts of euphemisms for "old hungarian runes" just to avoid the word "runes"
22:19:59 * int-e would imagine that a matte touch screen would soon develop glossy parts where it's touched most frequently.
22:21:19 <quintopia> int-e: it's a convertible. turns into a tablet.
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22:23:29 <b_jonas> Ok, I take that back. I was wrong. Commons doesn't have many pictures of old uses of old hungarian runes.
22:24:19 <zzo38> UTCE is design only for terminals and not for typesetting, therefore there is no font metric file; the rules are in the rendering engine and there is only one rule: (for 16-bit strings) If the high-bit is set then it is double-wide otherwise single-wide. (for 8-bit strings) Bytes in range 0 to 31 take up no space; other bytes take up a single cell of space.
22:25:10 <zzo38> I think it is good, isn't it?
22:27:06 <zzo38> Converting between 8-bit and 16-bit format is also simple.
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22:30:12 <HackEgo> [U+2468 CIRCLED DIGIT NINE]
22:39:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46890&oldid=46889 * H3LL * (+3) /* Overview */
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23:06:57 <\oren\> hppavilion: because the terminal treats that charatcer as halfwidth and a circled number won't fit
23:08:45 <\oren\> although, supposedl the next version of unicdoe will fix the width of a lot of characters
23:08:49 <int-e> (red button in hppavilion's link)
23:09:15 <zzo38> No, just using UTCE.
23:09:20 <\oren\> so maybe I should just treat it as fullwidth
23:10:20 <zzo38> Some widths in UTCE are different from Unicode, and in some cases UTCE has both versions.
23:12:04 <int-e> Am I right in assuming that UTCE does not, in fact, exist?
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23:26:19 <fizzie> int-e: There's a Global Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve.
23:26:55 <fizzie> int-e: A thousand tonnes of maple syrup were once stolen from the strategic reserve. http://loweringthebar.net/2012/09/maple-syrup-theft.html
23:27:23 <int-e> fizzie: I've heard of it... it's grand.
23:28:04 <int-e> Great moment... what does one do with 1000 tons of maple syrup... did Coca Cola taste different for a while after that, perhaps?
23:28:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46893&oldid=46890 * H3LL * (-1)
23:28:43 <fizzie> The Wikipedia "Federation of Quebec Maple Syrup Producers" article says they managed to track two thirds of it.
23:28:57 <fizzie> "Over the next three months, police had further success in locating portions of the stolen syrup, but were still unsure of the final disposition of about one third of it. Much of it had apparently been sold to buyers who were unaware of its origins and who were led to believe it had been produced in neighbouring New Brunswick."
23:30:10 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:31:21 <int-e> oh almost time to go to bed
23:31:38 <int-e> (I mean, hi oerjan)
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23:45:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46895&oldid=46893 * H3LL * (+67) /* Input and Output */
23:49:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Confusion]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=46896&oldid=46895 * H3LL * (+238) /* Example programs */
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23:56:59 -!- oerjan has set topic: If anyone has the key to the matrix of solidity, please hand it in to Neo at the front desk | The international hub of esoteric programming | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Mexico City (not Tenoch.
23:57:54 -!- oerjan has set topic: The international hub of solid matrices | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | http://esolangs.org/ | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | Note: people with cloaks will be treated as if they're from Mexico City (not Tenochtitlan).