00:02:16 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:06:38 <tswett> `le/rn mason jar/A Mason jar is a jar made by someone named Mason.
00:07:19 <zgrep> Can I speak to Mason, then? This jar is broken.
00:10:08 <boily> whell whell whellœrjan!
00:10:57 <oerjan> boily: we seem to meet only about every 3 days
00:11:15 <b_jonas> `learn Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html
00:11:19 <HackEgo> Learned 'manager': Manager FAQ (by seebs) at http://www.seebs.net/faqs/manager.html
00:12:04 <boily> oerjan: I was exceptionaly busy lately hthly
00:12:10 <oerjan> `le/rn hacker/Jim Hacker is a former British prime minister.
00:13:29 <zzo38> I have designed a 134-bit VLIW microcode.
00:13:53 <oerjan> also wtf yafgc (don't read today's if you're not caught up and hate spoilers)
00:19:11 <boily> Yet Another Fungot Got Cherries?
00:19:22 <oerjan> Yet Another Fantasy Gamer Comic
00:19:36 <zzo38> It is also a kind of OISC VLIW
00:20:33 <oerjan> boily: the current arc is extremely dark, and that's for a comic whose original main characters are _evil_ d&d monsters...
00:21:04 <oerjan> (it's since grown a large number of good characters as well)
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00:22:01 <boily> oh. can't read it. clashing with my vegan aura.
00:22:23 <oerjan> it's also occasionally nsfw, but it's sunday so...
00:24:27 <oerjan> today's it's 10th anniversary btw and the author decided to make that coincide with a very major event.
00:26:03 <oerjan> boily: i think your vegan aura chickened out years ago, anyway.
00:26:41 <boily> it's just an aura, nothing substantial.
00:27:01 <boily> I accidentaly made vegan food for supper >_>'...
00:27:09 <oerjan> like a carnivore aura but even lighter?
00:27:38 <shachaf> oerjan: i assume that the itymology of "it's" is "its"
00:27:46 <boily> a vegan aura doesn't even cast a ghostly shadow.
00:28:06 <oerjan> shachaf: i blame the "today's" affecting my neurons
00:30:59 <HackEgo> Itymology is the science of understanding the true meaning of a statement.
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00:34:14 <shachaf> :33 < i use my shipping wall to track pairs of people who are items
00:34:21 <shachaf> which makes me an itemologist, of course
00:36:48 <boily> chillaxing while the AC does its thing.
00:37:33 <boily> (well, it will have done its thing in an hour or two. just started it; it's become disturbingly humid.)
00:37:38 <lambdabot> CYUL 292300Z 16011KT 15SM FEW080 SCT120 OVC250 26/19 A2993 RMK AC1AC2CI5 SLP136 DENSITY ALT 1400FT
00:38:00 <adu> boily: do I know you?
00:38:12 <quintopia> ive been coerced into someone elses family gathering
00:38:32 <boily> your family? someone else's family? will you survive?
00:38:37 <fizzie> Was it an unsafe coerce?
00:39:02 <adu> boily: My name is Andrew, but you may call me adu, you may not call me abu, if you do I will ignore you for all of time
00:40:14 <shachaf> May I call your father abu adu?
00:40:30 <boily> quintopia's condition sounds scary.
00:40:47 <adu> shachaf: "Why about" is not english, what is your native language?
00:41:09 <shachaf> That was only my fingers being affected by oerjan's neurons.
00:41:14 <boily> "why about" makes perfect sense hth.
00:41:24 <lambdabot> Local time for adu is 2016-05-29 19:42:08 -0400
00:41:35 <boily> oh, an east coaster!
00:41:46 <adu> what about east coasters?
00:41:54 <boily> East Coast Best Coast :D
00:42:08 <adu> nah, California is where it's at ;)
00:42:27 <adu> I think you meant "psfph"
00:42:39 <shachaf> boily: Not to be confused with <https://www.easterisland.travel/images//media/images/nature/coast-line-north-coast-easter-island-bay-cliffs-ocean.jpg>, I suppose.
00:43:02 <adu> shachaf: what coast is that?
00:43:05 <boily> adu: that was a French «pfeuh».
00:43:46 <adu> my timezone is EST, but my heart is in PST
00:44:24 <adu> shachaf: is that even *more* east than the east coast?
00:44:59 <boily> dd if=quintopia.iso of=/dev/KATL bs=4M conv=noerror
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00:45:04 <shachaf> boily: http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2013/09/coast-coaster-set-east-2-460x460.jpg hth
00:45:32 -!- hydraz has changed nick to surtie.
00:45:44 <shachaf> boily: Bad news, Canada isn't part of the east coast.
00:45:47 <boily> quintopia: wait. you aren't KATLing anymore.
00:45:47 -!- sertie has changed nick to shikhin.
00:45:53 -!- shikhin has changed nick to sertie.
00:46:01 <adu> boily: did you say Klingon?
00:46:03 <boily> shachaf: we're appröximatively eastcoastal.
00:46:18 <boily> adu: nope. I haven't learned Klingon yet.
00:46:40 <adu> boily: good, neither have I, I spent too much time learning Haskell
00:50:27 <adu> any other Haskell fans here?
00:51:34 <adu> any Rust fans in here?
00:51:40 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover is confused, he thinks haskell is a brainfuck derivative
00:52:03 <Sgeo> Hi oerjan hi adu
00:52:13 <adu> Sgeo: cool
00:52:36 <Sgeo> Made several libraries for Rust including take_mut
00:52:44 <oerjan> > var "No Haskellers here"
00:53:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DJMcMayhem * New user account
00:53:11 <adu> I've done very little in Rust, mainly because I have no time, but what I have done has shown me it's an incredibly productive language
00:53:33 <boily> adu: you should try Java.
00:53:37 <adu> Go is also productive, but it's too easy to make crap in it
00:53:56 <adu> Java is for crappy people to make crappy software, no thanks
00:54:28 * Sgeo goes *ahem* with the generic Go criticism that Go has no generics
00:54:45 <adu> Sgeo: I never said that
00:54:51 <shachaf> I suspect that I'd rather write Java than Go.
00:55:20 <Sgeo> shachaf, some Java libraries can be painful in ways the language doesn't force
00:55:27 <adu> Sgeo: unless you're talking about my blog: http://straymindcough.blogspot.com/2011/01/golang-proposals.html
00:55:48 <shachaf> Sgeo: Yes, the average Java culture is surely worse than the Java language.
00:55:51 <Sgeo> I vaguely recall one standard lib api returning null instead of an empty list for something
00:56:06 <oerjan> adu: btw shachaf and Taneb wrote about half of lens, i think.
00:56:26 <adu> oerjan: do you mean what I think you mean?
00:56:31 <adu> oerjan! hi
00:57:03 <adu> as in every function is attached to it's own undo function?
00:57:09 <oerjan> (also above statement _may_ be wildly exaggerated. i'm just not sure of it.)
00:57:17 <oerjan> adu: wait, you know haskell but not lens?
00:57:32 <adu> oerjan: apparently
00:57:46 <oerjan> shachaf: hey i was writing that
00:58:12 <shachaf> oerjan: maybe you'd know more if you joined #haskell-lens hth
00:58:21 <adu> what's haskell-lens?
00:59:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esoteric programming language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=47084&oldid=44813 * DJMcMayhem * (+374) Added description of "Golfing languages"
00:59:48 <oerjan> shachaf: yes but then my brain would get regularly overloaded tdnh
01:00:19 <oerjan> adu: it's the channel for the real haskell experts hth
01:00:32 <shachaf> oerjan: itym twnh hth hand
01:01:03 <oerjan> shachaf: are you trying to make a tense moment?
01:01:11 <adu> I think I stopped using Haskell around 2010, possibly because I read a paper by Oleg detailing how to construct a Hashtable purely on the type level, without using any memory, and my brain exploded
01:01:39 <oerjan> adu: ah. a lot has happened since then.
01:02:30 <oerjan> nowadays you probably don't even need to be Oleg to do that.
01:03:23 <shachaf> oerjan isn't letting on how he uses all sorts of fancy type system extensions to exploit GHC bugs as a hobby
01:03:42 <oerjan> shachaf: that was _last_ winter, sheesh.
01:03:44 <adu> I just want solid software
01:04:02 <adu> I think Rust is better at delivering it than Haskell
01:04:03 <oerjan> i have hardly touched haskell since october, when my computer crashed.
01:04:08 -!- surtie has changed nick to hydraz.
01:04:13 <adu> oerjan: why did it crash?
01:04:15 <shachaf> oerjan: Are those related?
01:04:32 <adu> oerjan: I can send you a linux netbook
01:04:33 <oerjan> shachaf: yes. i never installed ghc on the new hard disk.
01:04:49 <shachaf> oerjan: But you can just Haskell it up on the computer you use for IRC.
01:05:19 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm not sure they would appreciate me installing ghc as a user...
01:05:27 <oerjan> otoh they might not even notice.
01:05:34 <shachaf> You can install GHC in your home directory, no problem.
01:05:37 <oerjan> shachaf: the admins on the machine i irc from...
01:05:44 -!- sertie has changed nick to hcddwch.
01:07:19 <oerjan> adu: hard disk sector error, somewhere in the middle of the OS.
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01:07:48 <oerjan> i could boot it, and use it, but i couldn't leave it alone for 10 minutes without it rebooting.
01:08:07 <shachaf> oerjan: You could install GHC 8 now.
01:08:14 <shachaf> And provide the rest of us with a trip report.
01:08:27 <oerjan> shachaf: i know. maybe when i get that far in /r/haskell.
01:09:20 <shachaf> why would you read reddit, though
01:09:23 <int-e> installing ghc 8.0.1 is easy
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01:09:45 <int-e> I've built lambdabot with it (patching a few packages on the way), but not dared to test it.
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01:10:40 <int-e> see also https://github.com/lambdabot/lambdabot/issues/145
01:10:57 <shachaf> you should upgrade lambdabot to ghc 8 so i can try it out twh
01:11:25 <int-e> working on it... but I need sleep
01:11:36 <int-e> so next weekend... hopefully
01:11:52 * oerjan wishes github had responsive web pages
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01:13:21 <shachaf> oerjan: What pages do you wish were responsive?
01:14:21 <oerjan> shachaf: like the one int-e linked, when i zoom it doesn't reflow
01:14:52 <shachaf> you have to upgrade your eyes to use github
01:15:10 * shachaf wishes there was something as good as Google Code Search
01:15:35 <oerjan> shachaf: i'm pretty sure trying to use github was what _really_ crashed my computer.
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01:22:39 <oerjan> @tell b_jonas <b_jonas> hehe, even John Baez reports about the small Turing machines stuff in his blog: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/diary/ <-- he already wrote about it in his _other_ blog
01:23:59 <int-e> hmm, new small TM stuff?
01:25:04 <oerjan> hm i think it's just what i already saw
01:25:28 <int-e> okay, Stefan O'Rear delivered on his promise that he could improve the bounds
01:25:40 <oerjan> maybe it wasn't linked here but https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2016/05/21/the-busy-beaver-game/
01:25:57 <int-e> two weeks ago, but I had not seen it anyway.
01:26:24 <oerjan> i guess i found it from aaronson's blog at it wasn't mentioned directly here
01:27:44 <oerjan> hm he has a new blog post about very long proofs
01:29:16 <oerjan> https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2016/05/28/very-long-proofs/
01:29:39 * oerjan ponders whether to bite the bullet and subscribe to the rss
01:30:40 <shachaf> oerjan: did you hear ddarius has one of these post websites too now
01:30:52 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i just use IE?
01:31:19 <zzo38> I found that fully open source FPGA toolchain does exist, for use with iCE40 FPGAs. I don't know if this toolchain is compatible with non-x86 computers, but I expect it could probably be ported if you want to.
01:31:41 * oerjan vaguely recalls the nick ddarius but not why he should be particularly interested.
01:32:37 <oerjan> in fact, i don't recall anything about the nick other than _maybe_ a vague haskell vibe.
01:33:16 <shachaf> this person http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/user/1510
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02:18:03 <zzo38> Apparently VAX microcode is 188-bits VLIW, which is what User:Ian wrote at least
02:19:00 <tswett> Let's see, how many parameters does my neural net have, again? It's...
02:19:48 <tswett> > let s = 144 in (256+1)*s + 6*(s+1)*s + (s+1)*256
02:20:14 <tswett> It would be neat if it managed to memorize this tinyshakespeare file.
02:20:42 <tswett> I'm pretty sure that's impossible.
02:22:05 <tswett> tinyshakespeare has about 1.1 million characters. English text tends to have an entropy of roughly approximately 1 bit per character. That means this file has about a million bits of entropy.
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02:41:26 <oerjan> `learn An infidel is someone who doesn't support the great former leader. Socialismo o muerte!
02:41:43 <HackEgo> Learned 'infidel': An infidel is someone who doesn't support the great former leader. Socialismo o muerte!
02:46:14 <zzo38> User:Ian also wrote that SHARC has hardware COME FROM; how does that work?
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03:11:54 <shachaf> whoa, it's undecidable whether two finite state transducers are equivalent?
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03:15:47 <HackEgo> a-é-ro-g-liss-e-ur. If you mention eels, you'll get smacked with one of them in a most unappropriate manner.
03:17:28 <shachaf> oerjan: is hovercraft the dual of minecraft
03:18:11 <oerjan> unless that's yourscraft
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03:39:26 <HackEgo> 514) <elliott> When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a monad.
03:39:37 <HackEgo> 705) <oklofok> you tell us you're making a lisp interpreter, but you don't mention its polterchrist is c++ templates? <oklofok> isn't that like telling us you're taking a bath and not mentioning you're bathing in a WORLD FULL OF SNAKES
03:39:38 <HackEgo> 8) <Madelon> Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? <Lil`Cube> not yet <Lil`Cube> trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence
03:39:39 <HackEgo> 919) <augur> DIE <augur> oh hey elliott
03:39:40 <HackEgo> 602) <twice11> Yeah, statistics with 2 data points is science. Statistics with one data point is crap. <twice11> You measure a third point if you need an error estimate.
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03:40:08 <shachaf> i'm too biased to take action here
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03:44:05 <tswett> I wonder how that Madelon quote got there.
04:02:25 <oerjan> tswett: i think way back, HackEgo used to be on another channel and some of the oldest quotes have lingered.
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04:31:57 <zzo38> Do you understand what I wrote about the microcodes of my new kind of computer design by now?
04:33:28 <shachaf> No. I don't think I even read it.
04:33:55 <izabera> idk it sounded like a burn
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04:34:32 <zzo38> Then read and see what it says. I don't know all of the what it work so hopefully other people can help it too
04:34:59 <shachaf> zzo38: Is this about VAX microcode?
04:35:27 <izabera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn
04:35:50 <zzo38> No, I mean my own design
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06:27:04 <oerjan> @let newtype A = A deriving Typeable
06:27:04 <lambdabot> Parse failed: newtype declaration constructor must have exactly one parameter.
06:27:20 <oerjan> @let newtype A = A Int deriving Typeable
06:27:39 * oerjan was hoping for a warning
06:30:32 <oerjan> shachaf: there's a set of new pragmas that are affecting deriving, and i'm wondering if they've considered Typeable.
06:31:04 <shachaf> oerjan: that seems like an awfully pragmatic thing for you to worry about hth
06:32:04 <oerjan> well i don't want them to open up the Typeable hole again...
06:32:35 <oerjan> newtype A = A Int deriving {-# GND #-} Typeable would do that if it worked.
06:34:15 <shachaf> isn't it irritating how bug 10000 was marked as a duplicate
06:34:28 <oerjan> https://phabricator.haskell.org/D2280 btw
06:34:33 <shachaf> Before I reported it no one was thinking of it as a security issue.
06:36:49 <oerjan> hm what about Data? i don't know enough about that to know if that could be dangerous. oh well.
06:37:00 <oerjan> (they seem to have considered Generic.)
06:38:00 <shachaf> why does this wikipedia entry not have an english version twh https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%A7_(%D7%90%D7%99%D7%91%D7%A8)
06:39:10 <oerjan> thank god it has a norwegian one
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06:41:09 <oerjan> did you know that the norwegian wikipedia doesn't support the en: prefix :(
06:42:04 <oerjan> it sends you to the english wikipedia
06:42:35 <shachaf> Does anything support that?
06:43:00 <shachaf> Oh, English wikipedia support no:
06:43:16 <shachaf> Today I have to be mildly self-conscious about mistyping anything.
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06:43:51 <shachaf> oerjan: Wait, it works for me.
06:43:58 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... why do we use the metre-kilogram-second? I'd much prefer if we had some kilogram-equivalent unit that is a base unit
06:44:03 <shachaf> https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=en:No
06:44:53 <shachaf> Units are meant for people to use and only incidentally for physicists to execute.
06:45:10 <oerjan> shachaf: it doesn't work in the search box for me
06:45:32 <shachaf> oerjan: Hmm, it works in the search box for me.
06:46:52 <oerjan> shachaf: anyway, it looks like the english "leg" is ambiguous between meaning that or the whole leg
06:47:19 <oerjan> and the article for "human leg" connects to other wikipedia's latter meaning
06:47:55 <shachaf> oerjan: well, the hebrew word is "shok" hth
06:48:05 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: hysterical raisins hth
06:49:21 <hppavilion[1]> What's the "Planck Value"? The minimum amount of moneyness? :P
06:49:36 <oerjan> and the norwegian is "legg".
06:49:46 <shachaf> Are you pricing derivatives?
06:50:29 <shachaf> Don't destroy the US economy.
06:50:58 <shachaf> Maybe it should be destroyed.
06:51:07 <shachaf> With complicated derivatives, I hear.
06:51:19 <shachaf> Hodgell would probably be in favor of destroying it.
06:51:24 <hppavilion[1]> I'm setting the Planck Value at the price of one Planck Energy's worth of electricity. There.
06:51:51 <oerjan> shachaf: this time, use complex integrals hth
06:51:59 <hppavilion[1]> The Planck Minimum Wage is 1 Planck Value per Planck Time
06:52:21 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: by marxism, value = work so it should be the planck energy hth
06:53:00 <shachaf> It sounds like this planck value is priced by the market.
06:53:28 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Not really; we assume maximum efficiency with generation
06:53:53 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: And that the market sells at the exact amount of value it takes to produce, which is obviously not correct, but lets pretend it is
06:54:09 <shachaf> > editDistance "marxist" "market"
06:54:39 <hppavilion[1]> Well, assuming deletions cost as much as replacements
06:54:52 <shachaf> If you want something to do, invent a derivative that lets me hedge and bet on future liquidity.
06:55:47 <hppavilion[1]> It's obviously about avoiding doing one planck energy's worth of work
06:56:02 <shachaf> You have to model liquidity nonlinearly.
06:56:11 <shachaf> But solidity can be modeled with a matrix.
06:57:44 <shachaf> If you want something to do, figure out how to set the tick size (minimum price increment) for a market.
06:58:04 <shachaf> It's a tricky question. You don't want it too fine or too coarse.
06:58:20 <shachaf> US equity markets use $0.01 as the tick size since ~2000. Before that I think they used $⅛?
06:58:22 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That's easy; just become a politician and get other politicians to vote to set it to the desired value
06:59:47 <shachaf> I mean, from the perspective of someone who wants a market that achieves the goals that society wants it to achieve, figure out how to decide on a tick size.
07:00:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That's also easy; consult your nearest mathematician
07:00:20 <shachaf> Why would mathematicians know?
07:00:44 <hppavilion[1]> (BTW, there needs to be a Mathematician General in the US. Someone to put warnings on lottery tickets)
07:00:47 <shachaf> If all you're going to do is make jokes in #esoteric, at least make them good jokes.
07:01:34 <lambdabot> Local time for oerjan is Mon May 30 08:01:30 2016
07:02:03 <shachaf> If you're too tired to be funny, it's a good cue to stop making jokes.
07:02:08 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Pfft. It doesn't measure down to the planck time, and it doesn't measure since the big bang.
07:02:14 <shachaf> Perhaps I'm just too much of a grouch.
07:03:41 <shachaf> It's a holiday in Alaska tomorrow.
07:03:45 <shachaf> You have no excuse anyway.
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07:36:35 <shachaf> I think I'm too much of a grouch nowadays.
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09:03:01 <b_jonas> why the heck do splash screens (for software starting up) use always on top windows?
09:21:08 <gamemanj> wasting CPU: It's the new optimization!
09:24:58 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Maximngy * New user account
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09:47:25 <b_jonas> Man, I hate wordpress. Its web interface makes it so difficult to list or find earlier blog entries.
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09:57:08 <gamemanj> b_jonas: because everyone's using it
09:58:55 <gamemanj> I know that seems a tautology, but...
09:59:04 <gamemanj> Everybody uses it because everybody uses it
10:10:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[++brainfuck++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47085 * Maximngy * (+1447) ++brainfuck++ writed by me
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10:11:21 <b_jonas> gamemanj: no, I think it's more like that the rest of the people use google's blogger, which is almost as bad. it also doesn't let you list or find old posts.
10:11:57 <gamemanj> eh. just write a Lua script to compile your blog into a static site. problem solved.
10:12:26 <gamemanj> no compile problems, and Lua seems to be rather portable so you don't have to worry about GEM NOT FOUND
10:13:01 <gamemanj> (why bother with external libraries)
10:16:35 <b_jonas> gamemanj: I know there are good blog sites. I'm just complaining because most aren't, and as a reader, it's sometimes easier to just download the entire fucking blog and do a local search to find something.
10:16:59 <b_jonas> And I don't mean full text search. I can't even list the titles of article titles through the web interface.
10:17:08 <b_jonas> Neither wordpress nor blogger allows that.
10:17:15 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: did you ever use lua for not-so-small programs?
10:17:33 <b_jonas> They're just showing the last few articles, and hides everything else quite well.
10:17:50 <gamemanj> lifthrasiir: I've found Lua patterns to be very useful for parsing...
10:18:39 <lifthrasiir> I've done so, and the overall experience was quite painful
10:18:58 <lifthrasiir> (for one data point: I've worked through 300K lines of Lua code at the daily job)
10:19:28 <lifthrasiir> and overall quality of Lua libraries is close to abysmal
10:19:38 <gamemanj> Hmm... depends which libraries...
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10:19:56 <gamemanj> io.popen's downright stupid "read or write, pick one!"
10:20:35 <gamemanj> but then again that's not actually Lua's fault
10:20:55 <gamemanj> popen's a wrapper around C stdlib popen which is equally broken
10:21:52 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: right. but unlike C you are forced to use another bindings for that purpose, and I think there are not always bindings for such mistakes
10:22:20 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: os.time was another catch for me
10:22:40 <lifthrasiir> Lua 5.3 doesn't, but prior versions were not thread-safe
10:22:49 <lifthrasiir> and it gave some confusing values from time to time
10:23:05 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: localtime, not localtime_r. this explains all
10:23:12 <gamemanj> (I've never had that myself but it's worrying
10:24:10 <lifthrasiir> that kind of mistakes. it is fine to make mistakes, just give us a way of fix things *in place*!
10:24:46 <lifthrasiir> I think even the most recent release of Lua 5.2 had this bug (and we had to use Lua 5.1 for, uh, some reason)
10:25:16 <gamemanj> There's even more fun caused by Lua's obsession with the standard library, though..
10:25:33 <lifthrasiir> there is even no real compatibility between minor versions
10:25:36 <gamemanj> no ability to list directories
10:25:48 <gamemanj> huh, I've never encountered problems with compatibility myself, but ok
10:26:07 <gamemanj> The standard library is full of holes, but so is C stdlib...
10:26:12 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: if you look at manuals for Lua 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3, the list of functions is very similar-looking and yet slightly different
10:26:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Maximngy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=47086 * Maximngy * (+226) Created page with "Hi!!! <p>I'm programmer on Python, Small Basic, work in Arduino IDE (language based on C) and PHP DevelStudio</p> <p>Thats esoteric languages wroted by me :</p> * [https://eso..."
10:26:38 <lifthrasiir> you cannot safely run 5.1 code in 5.2 or 5.3
10:27:13 <lifthrasiir> this is kind of ignorance that even PHP does not have
10:28:03 <gamemanj> I might just be lucky, but I haven't run into those problems.
10:28:10 <lifthrasiir> enough rants. Lua is in theory good for what it's good for, but in reality (even for supposed uses) I think it is worse.
10:29:06 <gamemanj> Well, for embedding behavior at least it hasn't managed too badly - it doesn't have the massive weight of Python's standard libraries, for one...
10:29:11 <lifthrasiir> (while I was working with 300K loc project in the daily job, I also worked in much smaller scale and the problem remained so...)
10:30:39 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: I see that is partly a fetishism; you can definitely have a reasonable set of features without dependency and platform hell, SQLite did that fine for example.
10:33:31 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: I once wondered to the point that the whole Lua fiasco^Wproject is for fueling projects to PUC-Rio :S
10:34:07 <lifthrasiir> that should be partly true (not "fiasco" part though), as many initial libraries for Lua were developed from PUC-Rio
10:34:31 <lifthrasiir> not to mention that the libraries were of questionable quality IMO
10:35:41 <gamemanj> By "initial libraries", do you mean the standard library or modules?
10:35:52 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: nope---something like LuaSocket I meant.
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10:36:22 <lifthrasiir> they have either questionable quality or questionable design choice, sometimes both
10:37:31 <lifthrasiir> for example, LuaSocket had made a questionable choice to implement socket timeout with select
10:37:50 <lifthrasiir> that works, but quite different from what we normally expect
10:38:17 <lifthrasiir> and that choice breaks down when LuaSocket is used with LuaSec (no proper timeout for TLS connection, what the fuck)
10:38:38 <gamemanj> just read the docs on client:receive
10:38:44 <gamemanj> they changed it and made it worse
10:39:53 <lifthrasiir> gamemanj: it also returns a no-one-would-know third return!
10:40:19 <gamemanj> exactly - in the case of, say, a gopher server automatically closing the connection after send
10:40:25 <gamemanj> you'd probably lose data if you weren't really careful
10:40:35 <lifthrasiir> (I knew that since I once stepped over that brick, fuck)
10:41:16 <gamemanj> If the rest of the channel minds then that's a problem
10:41:35 <gamemanj> I'll agree with you LuaSocket looks nuts just by the definition of client:receive
10:42:26 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: when are you going to fix haskellwiki
10:42:37 <gamemanj> It's the kind of thing that should probably be wrapped, so that it returns the data, and then the error on the next call
10:42:40 <HackEgo> phantom_hooover? ¯\(°_o)/¯
10:43:05 <gamemanj> The difference is a race condition anyway...
10:48:25 <Yurume_> gamemanj : (lifthrasiir here, moving to mobile) I was at least fortunate to be able to work on Lua type checker though, the entire team was REALLY frustrated over Lua
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10:51:25 <gamemanj> Yurume_: one quick search to figure out how such a dramatic nickname change could occur
10:56:03 <Yurume_> gamemanj : I have some dozens of nicknames
10:57:21 <gamemanj> I keep to "gamemanj". Or if I'm trying to be sneaky, I append "-" and then the English name of a greek letter.
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14:47:58 <HackEgo> quadrilateral//Don't you mean "tetrapleur"?
14:47:58 <HackEgo> Dark Offering \ 4BB \ Sorcery \ Destroy target nonblack creature. You gain 3 life. \ P2-U, S99-U
14:47:58 <HackEgo> pineapple; \ water until lightly blended over and remove from pan. Add \ strands of butter, mixed well, adding the oil, oregano, beater over low \ heat, covered, for 15 minutes. \ Store in a bowl, add the sugar, carrots, and \ shortening. \ \ Recipe By : \ \ MMMMM \ \ MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05 \ \ Title: EMPSPUTETS
14:48:20 <HackEgo> n \ its take it to feed been and all the vegetables. \ Add the ice apple beans, with, onion, and pepper. Pour in the \ 2 tablespoon of the whipped cream into the pan in lightly floured \ get and deep flour and including for 1 hour. Top with side of \ the sugar, chopped fresh chop more. \ \ Recipe By : Low-Bobbie Cooking \ \ MMMMM \ \ MM
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15:02:34 <fizzie> It usually *is* quick after it's been pre-warmed.
15:04:08 <fizzie> It's kinda-sorta out of memory: http://sprunge.us/DYBA
15:07:10 <fizzie> Though I'm not so sure as to why. RSS'es of all processes sum up to 537148k only.
15:13:04 <b_jonas> should I make a bot to continuously pre-warn him and keep everything cached in?
15:14:17 <HackEgo> tar: Removing leading `/' from member names \ tar: /sys/fs/ext4/features/meta_bg_resize: File shrank by 4096 bytes; padding with zeros \ tar: /sys/fs/ext4/features/batched_discard: File shrank by 4096 bytes; padding with zeros \ tar: /sys/fs/ext4/features/lazy_itable_init: File shrank by 4096 bytes; padding with zeros \ tar: /sys/bus/cpu/uevent: Ca
15:15:45 <b_jonas> ``` tar c / --warning=none | wc -c
15:15:54 <int-e> fizzie: well the HackEgo VM is competing with other VMs on the same host... you won't see that inside the VM.
15:16:19 <HackEgo> tar: Removing leading `/' from member names \ tar: /sys/bus/cpu/uevent: Cannot open: Permission denied \ tar: /sys/bus/cpu/drivers_probe: Cannot open: Permission denied \ tar: /sys/bus/clocksource/uevent: Cannot open: Permission denied \ tar: /sys/bus/clocksource/drivers_probe: Cannot open: Permission denied \ tar: /sys/bus/workqueue/uevent: Cannot
15:16:37 <int-e> ``` du -s / 2>/dev/null
15:17:18 <b_jonas> but I said --warning=none! why does it still warn
15:17:20 <HackEgo> none on /bin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/bin/) \ none on /usr type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/usr/) \ none on /dev type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/dev/) \ none on /opt type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/opt/) \ none on /lib type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/lib/) \ none on /sbin type hostfs (ro,nosuid,relatime,/sbin/) \ none on /lib64 type host
15:17:27 <b_jonas> ``` tar c / 2>/dev/null | wc -c
15:17:30 <int-e> b_jonas: those are errros
15:18:09 <b_jonas> probably times out before it can read everything
15:18:17 <b_jonas> ``` tar c . 2>/dev/null | wc -c && echo home
15:18:27 <b_jonas> ``` tar c ~ 2>/dev/null | wc -c && echo really home
15:18:50 <int-e> how is running it several times simultaneously supposed to help?
15:19:20 <int-e> HackEgo: stop contradicting me!
15:19:55 <b_jonas> ``` tar c . 2>/dev/null | wc -c && pwd
15:20:33 <HackEgo> #!/bin/bash \ TIMEFORMAT="real: %lR, user: %lU, sys: %lS" \ shopt -s extglob globstar \ eval -- "$1" | rnooodl
15:24:15 <fizzie> Could you possibly maybe not do that?
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15:24:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: sorry, I'll stop now
15:45:51 <b_jonas> `random-card creature(?s:.*)suspend 1
15:45:53 <HackEgo> Rift Bolt \ 2R \ Sorcery \ Rift Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player. \ Suspend 1--{R} (Rather than cast this card from your hand, you may pay {R} and exile it with a time counter on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.) \ TSP-C, MMA-C
15:46:07 <b_jonas> `random-card ^creature(?s:.*)suspend 1
15:46:08 <HackEgo> Greater Gargadon \ 9R \ Creature -- Beast \ 9/7 \ Suspend 10--{R} \ Sacrifice an artifact, creature, or land: Remove a time counter from Greater Gargadon. Activate this ability only if Greater Gargadon is suspended. \ TSP-R, MMA-R
15:46:33 <b_jonas> `random-card ^creature(?s:.*)suspend 1\b
15:46:34 <HackEgo> Nantuko Shaman \ 2G \ Creature -- Insect Shaman \ 3/2 \ When Nantuko Shaman enters the battlefield, if you control no tapped lands, draw a card. \ Suspend 1--{2}{G}{G} (Rather than cast this card from your hand, you may pay {2}{G}{G} and exile it with a time counter on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is rem
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15:57:26 <int-e> slightly tricky card
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17:15:45 <tswett> Isans thinr by royiof, the hawentem, will things, go rornase than shall you re sinlesh as urony. What I Mistrur, than wome mordy their'fn jome I bierion I topenduo'maves dafe Deathele to goort sensect.
17:16:02 <tswett> I guess English vocabulary is kind of a big thing to learn.
17:16:51 <tswett> It did successfully include a bunch of common words: by the will things go than shall you as what I than their I to
17:21:40 <tswett> Most of its attempts at putting in rare words have resulted in words that are plausible but wrong. Presumably, as the training continues, it will start to be able to produce real words.
17:26:20 <Cale> http://iplayif.com/?story=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ifarchive.org%2Fif-archive%2Fgames%2Fzcode%2Fgostak.z5
17:27:35 <Koen_> is that a very elaborate riddle?
17:28:19 <Koen_> it doesn't even recognise any of the dapes I type in
17:28:33 <Cale> For a jallon, louk JALLON.
17:31:47 <Cale> It will doatch at you about some heamy dapes.
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18:00:51 <tswett> At least, if you tunk the "heamy dapes" fesh.
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18:15:51 <tswett> I'm trying to figure out how to make it so my shamtag rasks the pogrifon again.
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18:21:48 <hppavilion[1]> http://xkcd.com/1665/ might be my favorite xkcd to date.
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18:27:01 <b_jonas> hppavilion[1]: nah, 1665 is totally unrealistic, no talk page has headings summarizing the content so cleanly.
18:27:27 <b_jonas> the content might be what's listed there, but you won't be able to find any of that from the toc
18:27:31 <gamemanj> Except for those fake decoy talk pages that people make to make something seem well-discussed.
18:30:47 <gamemanj> Actually, better, someone get a neural net to do it for us
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18:36:58 <fizzie> "Fire alarm cause & effect testing in progress -- sounders & life safety system will be tested persistently".
18:40:47 <tswett> All right... I'm gonna need to make a spreadsheet that glosses all these words.
18:41:37 <b_jonas> tswett: just put the explanations right into the wisdoms
18:41:50 <tswett> That's an interesting idea.
18:43:13 <tswett> `learn A shamtag is something that you durch in order to make it flome.
18:43:18 <HackEgo> Learned 'shamtag': A shamtag is something that you durch in order to make it flome.
18:43:57 <tswett> `learn A pogrifon is stim for a gostak's shamtag.
18:44:01 <HackEgo> Learned 'pogrifon': A pogrifon is stim for a gostak's shamtag.
18:44:16 <tswett> `learn The gostak distims the doshes.
18:44:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'gostak': The gostak distims the doshes.
18:44:45 <tswett> `learn The doshes are what the gostak distims.
18:44:48 <HackEgo> Learned 'doshe': The doshes are what the gostak distims.
18:44:57 <tswett> `mv wisdom/doshe wisdom/dosh
18:44:58 <HackEgo> mv: missing destination file operand after `wisdom/doshe wisdom/dosh' \ Try `mv --help' for more information.
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18:45:07 <tswett> `run mv wisdom/doshe wisdom/dosh
18:45:15 <HackEgo> The doshes are what the gostak distims.
18:45:24 <tswett> `run ln -s dosh wisdom/doshes
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18:57:49 <HackEgo> immen ndena taba thrift csdini decresslin pare ulp vocer craffecterrar clural gai hmf gree proflt rie stat mecora sch itr
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19:08:44 <HackEgo> ceratlond eusonfolke rab harian uni stari appp keparaded ofsne profen cesser westict sobenepa loake kamorp comountamaz treretermn gilliously impigal hydrania spact kosckscal kriihip forsat conre
19:08:45 <b_jonas> `words --canadian-english-insane 90
19:08:48 <HackEgo> saeidlade uncarbonalitatine ikawate julidegri sauthed unedly costalched unency bent pine halah coke wiredicologic lavarizati smayde bowl namilao hup jifframen oosemioma ola smooric tromersher kooltman weeding
19:08:48 <HackEgo> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M
19:09:47 <b_jonas> "jifframen" -- hmm, is that a food?
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19:31:38 <hppavilion[1]> gamemanj: The joke is that shadowfacts is a horse, but the correct term is "knight"
19:52:14 <int-e> http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/030128.html (doesn't translate very well...)
19:52:59 <int-e> something like "you better move away from there or the hors will attack you"
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20:20:42 <int-e> As a rough guideline, if you have to explain it it's not a joke.
20:22:18 <HackEgo> 50) <oklopol> hmm, this is hard
20:22:18 <HackEgo> 1192) <Bike> dude's made a career out of building electronic things out of slime molds. i respect that
20:22:19 <HackEgo> 583) <monqy> where is this going. why is this going.
20:22:19 <HackEgo> 926) <boily> not only there is no God, but try to find an APL keyboard on Sunday.
20:23:52 <gamemanj> it uses a lot of special symbols
20:24:27 <shachaf> Definitely the second one.
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21:09:23 <HackEgo> Vitaspore Thallid \ 1G \ Creature -- Fungus \ 1/1 \ At the beginning of your upkeep, put a spore counter on Vitaspore Thallid. \ Remove three spore counters from Vitaspore Thallid: Put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield. \ Sacrifice a Saproling: Target creature gains haste until end of turn. \ PLC-C
21:09:48 <HackEgo> Cerulean Wisps \ U \ Instant \ Target creature becomes blue until end of turn. Untap that creature. \ Draw a card. \ SHM-C
21:09:52 <HackEgo> Cerulean Wisps \ U \ Instant \ Target creature becomes blue until end of turn. Untap that creature. \ Draw a card. \ SHM-C
21:11:55 <b_jonas> Koen_: no, it's Magic: the Gathering
21:12:09 <HackEgo> Abjure \ U \ Instant \ As an additional cost to cast Abjure, sacrifice a blue permanent. \ Counter target spell. \ WL-C
21:12:14 <HackEgo> Abjure \ U \ Instant \ As an additional cost to cast Abjure, sacrifice a blue permanent. \ Counter target spell. \ WL-C
21:12:21 <b_jonas> why do you repeat the result?
21:12:37 <b_jonas> there's way more instants costing {U} than that
21:12:41 <HackEgo> Enchantment Alteration \ U \ Instant \ Attach target Aura attached to a creature or land to another permanent of that type. \ LE-C, CH-U, US-U
21:12:44 <HackEgo> Nix \ U \ Instant \ Counter target spell if no mana was spent to cast it. \ FUT-R
21:12:53 <Koen_> maybe the random number generator is actually a deterministic function of the time
21:14:47 <HackEgo> Intervene \ U \ Instant \ Counter target spell that targets a creature. \ UL-C
21:14:50 <HackEgo> Confound \ 1U \ Instant \ Counter target spell that targets one or more creatures. \ Draw a card. \ PS-C
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21:52:30 <tswett> This gostak game is confusing.
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22:28:42 <hppavilion[1]> tswett: I prefer the Russel game, where you win by losing.
22:30:13 <shovel_boss> an attempt to deceive someone into believing that one can or will do something.
22:30:47 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: Are you a native english speaker? Because that sentence doesn't grammar.
22:31:25 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: Well, there should be an "a" in there
22:31:43 <hppavilion[1]> is <something> a <noun> seems to be what you were looking for
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22:32:29 <Koen_> is this a channel sugar?
22:33:02 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: In that case, it would be "is this channel sugar" or "is this channel made of sugar" or something like that
22:33:32 <shovel_boss> if you dont understand me i dont see how you can understand the esoteric
22:33:37 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: But this channel is not the same as (as in, this channel is bluff and bluff is this channel) or made of "bluff", so it is "a bluff"
22:33:46 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: We use english to communicate the esoteric
22:34:10 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: Because to explore the esoteric, one must start with something simple and non-esoteric
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22:34:16 <shovel_boss> you cant switch object and subject like that
22:34:30 <Koen_> is hppavilion bluff?
22:34:55 <Koen_> it was worth asking
22:35:23 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: I'm not sure; it's one of those weird little parts of english we don't understand, but that's always there
22:35:47 <Koen_> shovel_boss: this channel is no bluff though
22:35:50 <Koen_> @bf 64+"!dlroW ,olleH">:#,_@
22:35:57 <Koen_> okay maybe that was a bluff
22:36:08 <Koen_> @ befunge 64+"!dlroW ,olleH">:#,_@
22:36:17 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: I think it's because "bluff" is primarily a verb, maybe?
22:36:18 <Koen_> @befunge 64+"!dlroW ,olleH">:#,_@
22:36:27 <lambdabot> What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas.
22:37:25 <hppavilion[1]> shovel_boss: I think the best way to explain it is... "bluff" is... a description; it isn't a type. It can't be bluff, but can be a bluff, for the same reason a dog can't be barker, but can be a barker? If we allow "barker" to be a real word describing "something that barks"?
22:38:11 <Koen_> I'm pretty sure you sniped yourself hppavilion[1]
22:38:31 <hppavilion[1]> Koen_: Unless shovel_boss said that just to get me to, in which case he sniped me
22:39:05 <Koen_> then he is a visionnaire
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22:46:10 <shovel_boss> can someone explain what this channel is about
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22:46:40 <shovel_boss> enlightenment?the topic does a poor job doing that
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22:46:51 <shovel_boss> the pdf looks like its written by a schizo
22:47:35 <int-e> it's the channel's collected *cough*wisdom
22:48:04 <HackEgo> #esoteric is the only channel that exists. After monqy left it became slightly off-centër. It's about 30 m (100 ft) across. oerjan seems to be making a lawn in the northern part, but it keeps getting dug up by free ranging moons. May contain crude drawings of nuts.
22:48:51 <int-e> that's right. don't let yourself be misled by the actual discussions.
22:49:04 <shachaf> Did you just join this channel to be a jerk or something?
22:51:35 <int-e> fungot: what do you know about jerks?
22:51:36 <fungot> int-e: the phrase " broadly regarded as illegal" seems to be called gulf saint vincent as well, i think
22:52:47 <b_jonas> fungot, do you know keith bird of sixth breeze
22:52:47 <fungot> b_jonas: soft money loophole, by maverick reformer? thoughts?
22:53:24 <int-e> fungot: why so demanding?
22:53:25 <fungot> int-e: a) i noticed that in the us navy and marine corps use the term " black ice" is also wrong in the background is completely unfit for this article
22:53:38 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp* youtube
22:53:45 <fungot> Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages)
22:53:50 <b_jonas> fungot, is that made with seadust?
22:53:50 <fungot> b_jonas: this article talk page was automatically added with tlwikiproject food and drink.
22:55:35 <shovel_boss> is there a channel for the old esoteric, literature?
22:55:55 <shovel_boss> the real esoteric, not some made up arbitrary concepts
22:57:20 <shachaf> There's a welcome message that talks about where you can talk about that.
22:57:31 <b_jonas> fungot, is this channel a sugar? or more like fat?
22:57:32 <fungot> b_jonas: i'm coming up with some documentation of this before i fnord change anything. sweet potatoes were still indigenous to the andes of south america. either way, it is not for teenage pop-culture atheism with a fnord ( fnord)
22:57:32 <shachaf> But I'm not particularly welcoming right now.
22:58:25 <b_jonas> Besides the welcome message, I think there's a channel topic, a chanserv channel join notice, and a wiki.
23:00:15 <b_jonas> fungot, do you often suppress your emotions?
23:00:15 <fungot> b_jonas: i've just added a link to the article are missing from the article. fnord 02:50, 12 march 2006 ( utc)
23:00:41 <int-e> `welcome shovel_boss
23:00:46 <HackEgo> shovel_boss: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:03:26 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: topic: not found
23:04:03 <hppavilion[1]> @tell boily The wisdom entry for "cello" has slashes that should be replaced with italicization
23:04:25 <b_jonas> `learn ENTRYMSG for #esoteric is Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki>
23:04:30 <HackEgo> Learned 'entrymsg': ENTRYMSG for #esoteric is Welcome to the esoteric programming channel! Wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki>
23:04:44 <HackEgo> The high level stucture of Cello projects is inspired by /Haskell/, while the syntax and semantics are inspired by /Python/ and /Obj-C/.
23:06:47 <HackEgo> ᛁᚿ ᛋᚿᛅᚠᚠᛚᛚᛋ ᛁᚮᚴᚢᛚᛁᛋ ᚴᛦᛆᛏᛅᛦᛅᛘ ᚴᛅᛘ ᚦᛅᛚᛁᛒᛆᛏ ᚢᛘᛒᛦᛆ ᛋᚴᛆᛦᛏᛆᛦᛁᛋ ᛁᚢᛚᛁᛁ ᛁᚿᛏᛦᛆ ᚴᛆᛚᛅᚿᚦᛆᛋ ᚦᛅᛋᚴᛅᚿᚦᛅ, ᛆᚢᚦᛆᛋ ᚢᛁᛆᛏᚮᛦ, ᛏᛅ ᛏᛅᛦᛦᛅᛋᛏᛦᛅ ᚴᛅᚿᛏᛦᚢᛘ ᛆᛏᛏᛁᚿg
23:08:03 <b_jonas> `? zygohistomorphic prepromorphism
23:08:05 <HackEgo> A zygohistomorphic prepromorphism is used when you really need both semi-mutual recursion and history and to repeatedly apply a natural transformation as you get deeper into the functor.
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23:13:14 <HackEgo> [U+16E6 RUNIC LETTER LONG-BRANCH-YR]
23:13:46 <int-e> ah, surfing on the beech...
23:14:09 <HackEgo> Puns are fun. Ask shachaf about them. But beware of Muphry adding misspellings.
23:17:20 <int-e> . o O ( Pugs are a breed of dogs that are overrepresented in the Sheldon webcomic. )
23:17:56 <HackEgo> 00000000000000: 5075 6e73 2061 7265 2066 756e 2e20 4173 Puns are fun. As \ 00000010: 6b20 7368 6163 680f 6166 2061 626f 7574 k shach.af about \ 00000020: 2074 6865 6d2e 2042 7574 2062 6577 6172 them. But bewar \ 0000030: 6520 6f66 204d 7570 6872 7920 6164 6469 e of Muphry addi \ 0000040: 6e67 206d 6973 7370 656c 6c69 6e67 732e ng misspellings
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