←2016-07-01 2016-07-02 2016-07-03→ ↑2016 ↑all
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00:03:34 <oerjan> bohily
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00:04:24 <shachaf> oerjan: i always imagine you yodeling that hth
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00:05:51 <boily> hallørjen.
00:06:06 <boily> hellochaftiddlywhoo
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00:07:14 <boily> hppavellon[2].
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00:08:15 <oerjan> alas, poor underline
00:13:34 <quintopia> helloily
00:13:42 <oerjan> <zzo38> Vim programs F1 as help and other functions keys do nothing [...] <-- F1 opens help in gvim on windows, at least
00:14:01 <oerjan> (that's the only one i checked)
00:14:23 <oerjan> oh, works in my linux terminal too
00:14:38 <oerjan> oh wait
00:14:44 <oerjan> sorry, misparsed your sentence
00:15:35 <boily> quinthellopia
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00:50:35 <izabera> why does socketpair need to be a syscall?
00:57:21 <quintopia> because
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01:00:43 <izabera> oh
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01:20:05 <Etaoin> hellaoin
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02:15:38 <\oren\> I recently switched to using ctrl-ins, shift-ins for copy and paste. this has the advantage of working on windows, linux and mac the same way
02:16:21 <shachaf> I don't have an Ins key.
02:16:53 <\oren\> o_O; wha?
02:17:13 <\oren\> what computer doesn't have insert?
02:18:49 <shachaf> My work computer, a MacBook Pro.
02:19:22 <shachaf> Somehow it still has a caps lock key, though.
02:19:42 <shachaf> Apple got rid of the floppy drive and of the optical drive. But they didn't get rid of caps lock. Absurd.
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02:20:49 <\oren\> shachaf: I use a macbook at work, but I have an external keyboard
02:21:40 <\oren\> the macbook's keyboard is also missing a numpad, which i consider essential
02:21:54 <shachaf> I consider it inessential.
02:22:06 <shachaf> I learned hjklyubn so now I can play NetHack without a number pad.
02:22:32 <\oren\> I use the numpad to type numbers quickly
02:22:43 <shachaf> I use the numrow to type numbers quickly.
02:23:44 <quintopia> i have given up having a numpad as well
02:23:58 <shachaf> I never wanted it in the first place.
02:24:14 <quintopia> not only are numpadless keyboards more compact, they are less expensive!
02:24:16 <shachaf> Typing numbers is for the birds.
02:24:38 <quintopia> i have yet to adopt a bird to type numbers for me, I regret to admit
02:24:57 <shachaf> The Bird is Cruel!
02:25:03 <shachaf> (Or so `hoag informs me.)
02:25:28 <quintopia> (i have purchased keyboards with numpads before, but it was only coincidence--it was never a factor in my decision)
02:27:07 <\oren\> only thing I don't like about this keyboard (on my Thinkpad) is the lack of a print screen key
02:28:32 <shachaf> I'm OK with a pixel screen. Printers are outdated.
02:28:39 <\oren\> print screen is essential for pics or it didn't happen
02:29:59 <shachaf> On my work computer, a MacBook Pro, I can press Cmd-Shift-3 to make a picture of the screen, or Cmd-Shift-4 to make a picture of a window or rectangle.
02:30:22 <shachaf> Very convenient.
02:30:32 <tswett> I think my laptop has all the same keys that a full keyboard has, except for two.
02:30:41 <tswett> Plus it has one key that a full keyboard doesn't have.
02:30:44 <shachaf> On my personal computer, I have a Print Screen key. But I usually run a command line program.
02:30:53 <tswett> Those keys are insert and scroll lock.
02:31:36 <tswett> And "fn" is the extra one.
02:32:23 * oerjan has all those, and a numpad
02:32:47 <tswett> oerjan: do you have a laptop that does have insert and scroll lock keys?
02:33:16 <oerjan> well there's a marking for scr lk on the num lk key
02:33:31 <oerjan> and there's insert on the numpad
02:33:42 <tswett> So no, it doesn't have a scroll lock key.
02:34:04 <oerjan> my previous laptop didn't have a separate numpad, although it had a setting to put a numpad in the middle of the ordinary keys
02:34:10 <oerjan> OKAY
02:34:23 <shachaf> oerjan: tswett sure showed you
02:34:32 <tswett> I'm talking about dedicated keys. Mine has decidated keys for all but two of the standard keys.
02:34:33 <oerjan> and the insert key is shared with 0
02:34:52 <tswett> oerjan: so far, it sounds like you have the same laptop keyboard that I have.
02:35:01 <oerjan> is it an asus
02:35:08 <tswett> Yes.
02:35:18 <shachaf> which one
02:35:48 <tswett> Do the media buttons on your F keys go sleep, airplane, keyboard dim, keyboard bright, screen dim, screen bright, screen off, projector, touchpad disable, mute, quiet, loud?
02:37:11 <oerjan> i don't have keyboard lights, but otherwise yes
02:37:21 <oerjan> (i think)
02:38:04 <oerjan> not sure about airplane, it's some kind of radiating antenna symbol
02:38:49 <tswett> Probably the same thing.
02:38:54 <tswett> Does your F2 key have a little light in it?
02:38:56 <oerjan> Fn + F3 seems to open up some email program.
02:39:25 <oerjan> oh it's airplane indeed. no light though.
02:39:32 <shachaf> `wisdom
02:39:37 <tswett> I really oughta get my media keys working.
02:39:52 <oerjan> F3 and F4 have no media symbols
02:39:53 <tswett> I'm tired of only being able to change my backlight brightness by using the xbacklight command.
02:40:03 <HackEgo> døsthiswork//no
02:40:22 <shachaf> clever
02:40:31 <shachaf> `cwlprits døsthiswork
02:40:43 <HackEgo> int-e ais523 oerjan elliott olsner Bike FreeFull shachaf
02:40:48 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa
02:40:58 <shachaf> `hog wisdom/døsthiswork
02:41:06 <HackEgo> ​<oerjan> revert \ <olsner> cp wisdom/doesthiswork wisdom/d\xc3\xb8sthiswork \ <Bike> revert \ <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ <shachaf> echo yes > wisdom/d\xc3\xb8sthiswork
02:41:37 <shachaf> `wisdom
02:41:39 <HackEgo> pico//pico is the useless twin of nano.
02:43:04 <tswett> Maybe I should upgrade to 16.4.
02:43:35 <shachaf> pico isn't cool. You know what's cool? nano.
02:44:27 <oerjan> when my laptop was in for repairs, i got a replacement with keyboard lights. i found it irritating, especially since it wouldn't remember that i wanted them off.
02:45:13 <oerjan> (well, when i turned the laptop on.)
02:45:41 <oerjan> is there an atto
02:45:57 <tswett> Just paint over all the letters with black paint.
02:46:11 <tswett> Use one of those tiny brushes.
02:46:24 <oerjan> AAAAAAAA
02:46:44 <tswett> What's the codename for 16.4, anyway?
02:46:58 <oerjan> tswett: the lights came through the borders of the keys, not the letters, iirc.
02:47:17 <tswett> Just install rubber seals around all the keys.
02:47:23 <oerjan> i may misremember whether the letters also shined
02:47:48 <oerjan> anyway, that laptop is long since back in the shop.
02:48:28 <tswett> It'd be kind of difficult to use a backlit keyboard where the letters don't shine.
02:48:35 <oerjan> . o O ( Atrocious Allosaurus )
02:48:58 <oerjan> MAYBE
02:48:58 <tswett> Isn't this one X?
02:49:02 <tswett> Also, what was the animal for U?
02:49:12 <oerjan> tswett: i'm just joking
02:49:20 <tswett> Nobody can name an animal starting with U.
02:49:42 <oerjan> huh
02:49:52 <oerjan> Undulating Utahraptor
02:50:24 <tswett> Oh wow, my Ubuntu distro has been EOL since February.
02:50:26 <tswett> Why wasn't I notified?
02:50:40 <oerjan> the notifications were also EOLed hth
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02:51:07 <tswett> os
02:51:50 <oerjan> hm it is indeed hard to think of a modern animal starting with U.
02:52:15 <\oren\> Usagi
02:52:22 <oerjan> in english, \oren\
02:52:37 <oerjan> although i also thought of that one
02:52:45 <\oren\> Uman
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02:53:25 <oerjan> Ulv
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02:53:54 <\oren\> hppavilion[2]: you've been incremented!
02:53:58 <oerjan> there's got to be some obscure antelope
02:54:48 <\oren\> Uakari
02:54:55 <tswett> Yeah, maybe they've got one on the coat of arms of some country starting with U.
02:55:07 <\oren\> it's a kind of monkey
02:55:09 <tswett> Like, maybe it's an animal where the name of the animal just begins with the name of that country.
02:55:49 <\oren\> Ukrainian swamp tiger
02:56:06 <tswett> That doesn't sound like an obscure antelope.
02:56:33 <oerjan> stupid wikipedia's mammal list goes by genus in latin
02:57:04 <shachaf> oerjan: "genus" in latin is "genus" hth
02:57:25 * oerjan lightly swats shachaf -----###
02:57:42 <tswett> No, "genus" in Latin is "genus_(taxinomia)" hth.
02:57:47 <tswett> Proof: https://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_%28taxinomia%29
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02:57:58 <tswett> Sorry, it's "genus_%28taxinomia%29".
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03:00:32 <tswett> Man, I really miss the days when Ubuntu's theme color was brown instead of purple.
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03:04:56 <tswett> Oh right, I was gonna ponder this funny little language of mine.
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03:11:33 <alercah> `unicode U+01b9
03:11:37 <HackEgo> ​ƹ
03:12:09 <tswett> `unidecode ƹ
03:13:08 <tswett> This is the language that's tentatively named Tokiber.
03:13:21 <tswett> Not to be confused with the language that's tentatively named Quendle.
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03:14:45 <\oren\> tswett: they switched to purple?
03:15:27 <tswett> \oren\: yeah, like nearly ten years ago.
03:17:32 <\oren\> their website is still orange
03:19:03 <\oren\> hmm from screenshots of 16.04 I can see there's a lot more purple now, but still some orang
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03:19:58 <tswett> Things I have defined in Tokiber: categories; categories with a terminal object; finite product categories; finite limit categories; monoids; the forgetful functor from monoids to categories; groups; abelian groups; rings with identity; "natural number algebras".
03:20:51 <\oren\> what about strings?
03:21:24 <\oren\> oh, wait, every string is a natural number, never mind
03:21:34 <shachaf> Strings aren't natural numbers.
03:21:57 <\oren\> they could be represented by them?
03:22:14 <shachaf> Of course.
03:22:20 <\oren\> the string "\00" is 2. the string
03:22:31 <\oren\> "\0\0" is 2
03:22:40 <\oren\> h...
03:23:09 <tswett> A natural number algebra consists of a sort N, a point "zero" in N, and a function "succ" from N to N.
03:23:17 <\oren\> screw it, take the bitstream, add a 1 at the end and call that a number
03:24:27 <\oren\> tswett: a sort like quicksort or mergesort?
03:24:32 <tswett> Nah, use bijective base 1112064.
03:24:41 <tswett> "A sort" means "a set or whatever".
03:24:41 <shachaf> What's a point? An arrow from a terminal object?
03:25:16 <shachaf> You should do the CDOs in http://chu.stanford.edu/PrattSRMK2016.pdf
03:25:23 <\oren\> oh, bijective base. that is way better.
03:25:23 <shachaf> You have points and copoints. It's TG.
03:25:33 <tswett> An arrow from a terminal object, yes.
03:26:04 <shachaf> And adjunctions are just a special case of associativity.
03:26:16 <tswett> So yeah, really "a sort" means "an object in the ambient category-with-a-terminal-object".
03:26:37 <shachaf> an object in the ambivalent category
03:27:58 <tswett> "Function", of course, means "arrow".
03:28:15 <tswett> I want to define the squaring function on the integers.
03:28:32 <\oren\> man, I'm still entirely ignorant of the difference between a category and a set.
03:29:17 <shachaf> There isn't much similarity.
03:29:40 <tswett> A category is a directed graph equipped with a composition operator which is associative and has identities.
03:29:50 <tswett> A set isn't.
03:30:23 <\oren\> ok but what does it mean for something to be "in the category C"
03:30:28 <shachaf> Pft. A category is a generalized monoid.
03:30:52 <\oren\> does that mean it's one of the points on the graph?
03:31:00 <shachaf> Do you actually want an answer for what a category is?
03:31:26 <tswett> \oren\: well, that depends on what the thing is. The vertices of a category are called objects, so that tells you what an "object in the category C" is.
03:32:06 <tswett> The edges are called arrows or morphisms (the two words are exact synonyms).
03:33:10 <\oren\> ok that makes a lot more sense than the wikipedia article
03:33:26 <tswett> The "usual case" is for the objects to be algebraic structures and for the arrows to be homomorphisms between them.
03:33:35 <tswett> That's what the "category of groups" is, for example.
03:34:18 <shachaf> I think thinking of a category as a graph is a bit misleading if you want good intuition.
03:34:45 <\oren\> can I think of it as a set of sets and functions between sets?
03:35:09 <\oren\> that's how i was thinking of it
03:35:09 <shachaf> The important part of a category is the arrows.
03:35:11 <tswett> You can certainly think of it as being *like* a set of sets and functions between sets.
03:35:14 <shachaf> The objects are almost irrelevant.
03:35:28 <shachaf> The arrows aren't functions (except in some special cases).
03:35:32 <tswett> In most cases, the objects are "kind of like sets" and the arrows are "kind of like functions".
03:38:02 <\oren\> shachaf: in what ways can they fail to be functions?
03:38:29 <shachaf> Are the elements of a group functions?
03:39:30 <shachaf> Well, that's maybe a bad question because of Cayley's theorem.
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03:42:44 <\oren\> shachaf: I was thinking more of what they do to the elements of the objects
03:43:37 <oerjan> \oren\: categories that are "sets and functions between sets" are an important special case, known as _concrete_ categories.
03:44:20 <shachaf> \oren\: I'd give you an example, but maybe first you should have the definition of a category.
03:44:56 <\oren\> seems like first I need the definition of an object?
03:45:14 <oerjan> there isn't one
03:45:22 <oerjan> an object can be literally _anything_
03:45:30 <oerjan> dependent on the category
03:45:56 <shachaf> First you need the definition of an arrow.
03:46:06 <shachaf> Which can also be literally anything.
03:46:17 <shachaf> OK, well, do you know what a monoid is?
03:46:31 <\oren\> something from Haskell?
03:46:47 <\oren\> no wait that's "monad"
03:47:05 <shachaf> Do you know what a group is?
03:47:11 <\oren\> yes
03:47:23 <shachaf> A monoid is like a group, except elements don't necessarily have inverses.
03:47:54 <\oren\> ok.
03:47:59 <shachaf> So you have multiplication, and you have an identity element 1, such that a(bc) = (ab)c, a1 = a, 1a = a
03:48:33 <shachaf> Sounds good?
03:48:44 <\oren\> yup. with you so far.
03:49:08 <shachaf> A good example of a monoid is strings over some alphabet. Multiplication is concatenation, and 1 is the empty string.
03:49:53 <shachaf> Another example of a monoid is NxN matrices, with the identity matrix and matrix multiplication.
03:50:35 <shachaf> But what you'd want to do is talk about the monoid of all matrices, not just NxN matrices.
03:50:48 <shachaf> Multiplication is still associative, and you still have identity matrices. Right?
03:51:00 <\oren\> yeah.
03:51:13 <shachaf> The trouble is that you can't multiply two arbitrary matrices. The sizes have to match.
03:51:36 <shachaf> In particular, you can multiply and IxJ matrix with a JxK matrix, to get an IxK matrix.
03:52:01 <shachaf> And you don't just have one identity, you have one for each size. So you have a 5x5 identity matrix and so on.
03:52:10 <\oren\> right
03:52:45 <shachaf> The laws are still the same. a(bc) = (ab)c, id_N . a = a, a . id_M = a
03:52:51 <shachaf> If a is an NxM matrix.
03:53:18 <shachaf> (Where . is multiplication.)
03:53:59 <shachaf> So if you generalize that, that's what a category is.
03:54:23 <\oren\> where the matrices are the arrows?
03:54:26 <shachaf> Yes.
03:54:28 <shachaf> A category has a bunch of things, called arrows, that you can multiply together.
03:54:37 <shachaf> But you can't multiply any two things together.
03:54:59 <\oren\> only if one points to the vertex where another begins.
03:55:14 <shachaf> So you have a bunch of things, called objects. Each arrow has a "domain" object and a "codomain" object (these correspond to the dimensions of the matrix).
03:55:48 <shachaf> You generally write f : A -> B to mean that f is an arrow with domain A and codomain B.
03:57:14 <shachaf> You have an operation ., called composition or multiplication, where f . g is defined the codomain of g is equal to the domain of f.
03:57:42 <shachaf> . is associative
03:58:14 <shachaf> And for every object A, you have a special arrow 1_A : A -> A, such that for any f : A -> B, f . 1_A = f, and for any g : C -> A, 1_A . g = g
04:00:21 <shachaf> Does that make sense?
04:00:26 <\oren\> yes
04:00:50 <shachaf> OK. It's pretty simple.
04:01:06 <shachaf> Now you can talk about other categories. A popular one is one where the arrows are functions.
04:01:35 <shachaf> The objects are sets. You can see that it all works out.
04:06:18 <\oren\> that helps a lot, to have an example other than the category(s) of functions and sets
04:06:47 <shachaf> There are lots of other examples.
04:07:59 <shachaf> You can pretty easily see that a monoid is a category with one object. Yes?
04:08:09 <shachaf> (Or can be represented that way, at least.)
04:08:19 <\oren\> yes
04:08:45 <shachaf> And it doesn't matter what the object is. For example, it could be a cup of tea.
04:09:32 <shachaf> You can represent a set as a category, where each object represents an element, and there are only identity arrows.
04:09:37 <shachaf> (That's called a "discrete category".)
04:11:19 <shachaf> You can also represent a preorder as a category. You do that by saying that, for any pair of objects (A,B), there's at most one arrow : A -> B, iff A <= B.
04:12:03 <shachaf> Identity arrows correspond to reflexivity, and arrow composition corresponds to transitivity.
04:12:26 <\oren\> i see, the composition of arrows would only lead to true <= statements...
04:12:39 <shachaf> Right.
04:12:50 <shachaf> These are kind of boring categories because they're extreme.
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04:13:43 <\oren\> they should be on the wiki page so that people can figure out that a category isn't just what i thought it was.
04:13:58 <shachaf> A very popular sort of category is one where the arrows are homomorphisms of some structure.
04:14:11 <shachaf> For example, group homomorphisms, or continuous functions, or linear maps.
04:14:35 <shachaf> The objects would be groups, or topological spaces, or vector spaces, respectively.
04:14:57 <shachaf> (The category of finite-dimensional vector spaces and linear maps is very similar to the one with matrices that we started with.)
04:15:36 <shachaf> Sounds good?
04:15:58 <\oren\> yeah all of those sound like they should work
04:16:26 <shachaf> People almost always define homomorphisms such that they're associative and have identities.
04:16:33 <shachaf> The next question is why would you care about categories?
04:17:04 <shachaf> And in a way this whole conversation is backwards, because that question is the right place to start.
04:19:04 <shachaf> Probably the right approach is to start with naturality, like what's-his-name did.
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04:55:55 <hppavilion[2]> What're some of the best spacey simulations?
04:56:23 -!- hppavilion[2] has set topic: The intradisciplinary hub of solidarity matrices, esoteric programming language design, multichannel bot abuse (always safe, sane and consensual), and font forging (dangerous and potentially illegal) | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
05:00:37 <\oren\> hppavilion[2]: KSP is my favorite, but there's also space engine
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05:00:53 <hppavilion[2]> \oren\: I mean videos xD
05:01:08 <hppavilion[2]> \oren\: Simulations of weird things happening in space
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05:50:28 <tswett> Uhhh, right. I wanted to define the squaring function on the integers.
05:50:52 <tswett> Which probably means I should define the integers.
05:52:39 <tswett> So far, I don't have a way to do that.
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06:02:09 <tswett> Like, I have a way to define finite algebras.
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06:09:58 <tswett> So I've defined sets, and I've defined rings with identity.
06:10:08 <tswett> Here's what the definition of a set currently looks like:
06:10:15 <tswett> theory Set : CATEGORY { sort Element; }
06:10:38 <tswett> Paraphrased in English:
06:10:41 <tswett> "A set consists of a set."
06:11:38 <tswett> You can define the empty set, too. It looks something like this:
06:11:53 <tswett> algebra EmptySet : Set { Element := 0; }
06:12:40 <tswett> The definition of a ring with identity starts out like this:
06:12:55 <tswett> theory RingWithIdent extends Set : FPRODCAT {
06:13:50 <tswett> The "extends" keyword automatically defines a forgetful functor RingWithIdent -> Set.
06:16:45 <tswett> So theoretically, you ought to just be able to grab the left adjoint to that functor, giving you the free functor Set -> RingWithIdent.
06:17:06 <tswett> And then apply that to EmptySet, and boom, you get the free ring-with-identity on the empty set—in other words, the integers.
06:17:57 <tswett> That's all well and good. In fact, let me simply declare that that is now a feature of the language.
06:18:03 <tswett> How are we gonna define functions on the integers, now?
06:20:42 <tswett> Come to think of it, I haven't defined any way of defining homomorphisms at all.
06:39:36 <tswett> All right, I suppose theoretically I ought to just be able to say this:
06:40:53 <tswett> homomorphism square : forget Integer as Set -> forget Integer as Set { all x := mult x x }
06:41:43 <tswett> Good ol' "forget Integer as Set". One of my favorite algebras.
06:43:56 <tswett> Whoops, I forgot the semicolon.
06:45:18 <tswett> And I guess logically, I ought to be able to define the integers like this:
06:45:34 <tswett> define algebra Integer : RingWithIdent := free EmptySet as RingWithIdent;
06:46:06 <tswett> Likewise, I ought to be able to define the natural numbers (in one of their incarnations) like this:
06:46:21 <tswett> define algebra PeanoNatural : NatNumAlg := free EmptySet as NatNumAlg;
06:47:02 <tswett> Now ideally, one might like to be able to define the "inclusion" function from PeanoNatural to Integer.
06:47:15 <tswett> Rather, from "forget PeanoNatural as Set" to "forget Integer as Set".
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08:49:22 <int-e> http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/cube8.html ... that was tricky to reassemble :)
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09:16:03 <\oren\> corrolary to the sapir-whorf hypothesis: learning a new language increases the range of thoughts you can think.
09:17:19 <shachaf> Or perhaps decreases it.
09:17:56 <shachaf> tswett: 2 is sometimes called I, the interval category
09:18:09 <shachaf> In some ways it behaves like the closed interval [0,1]
09:18:23 <shachaf> In this perspective a natural transformation is like a homotopy of functors.
09:18:40 <tswett> Yup.
09:19:46 <tswett> You can define the interval category in Tokiber easily enough...
09:20:07 <tswett> theory Interval : CATEGORY { sort Domain; sort Codomain; arrow : Domain -> Codomain; }
09:20:34 <shachaf> Can you define hTop?
09:21:29 <tswett> The category whose objects are topological spaces and whose arrows are homotopy classes of continuous maps?
09:21:52 <tswett> Not as a theory, no.
09:22:06 <tswett> You can't define a theory that has uncountably many objects.
09:22:10 <shachaf> What!
09:22:32 <shachaf> Not even uncountably many?
09:22:35 <tswett> I mean, you "could" do that, but only by writing an uncountable amount of code.
09:23:15 <tswett> For the doctrine CATEGORY, you can't even define a theory that has infinitely many objects.
09:25:09 <tswett> A theory is a finite presentation of a category (or a category-with-a-terminal-object or a finite product category or a finite limit category). And every finitely presented category-with-a-cherry-on-top has only countably many objects.
09:28:15 <shachaf> But what about infinitary theories?
09:28:22 <shachaf> `? frame
09:28:53 <HackEgo> A frame is just a complete Heyting algebra. Frame homomorphisms don't preserve implication, if you know what I mean.
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09:30:24 <tswett> Every definition represents a finite mathematical object.
09:30:27 <shachaf> «For infinitary theories, such as that of frames, there is a hitch. Step 2 of Theorem 4.3.6 tells us to form the set of all possible expressions using the generators and the operators, and at this stage the general theory doesn't use the algebraic laws to make any identifications between expressions (this comes in Step 4). This is fine for the finitary algebraic theories. However, for frames, we can mak
09:30:33 <shachaf> e new expressions by forming joins of ...
09:30:35 <shachaf> ... arbitrary sets of older expressions, and this can't be done in set theory. Technically, the "set" of all possible expressions would be a proper class: it is too big to be a valid set. This is a genuine problem. There are infinitary theories (such as that of complete Boolean algebras - see Johnstone [82]) where this is insuperable and presentations simply don't present algebras. For frames, fortunatel
09:30:41 <shachaf> y, presentations do present, but we ...
09:30:44 <shachaf> ... have to argue slightly carefully to show this.»
09:30:46 <shachaf> I don't even remember any of this
09:30:48 <shachaf> Look
09:30:57 <tswett> You can define a finite ring. You can't define an infinite ring, but you can define a finite presentation of a ring.
09:32:15 <tswett> And that's a lot like being able to define any finitely presented ring.
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10:19:20 <izabera> does anyone know why all my compilers on linux create elf files where EI_OSABI is always 0 (which is sysv) instead of 3 (which is linux)?
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10:34:21 <izabera> `` cp /bin/ls .; file ls
10:34:37 <HackEgo> ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x55f1e005df252708d4c456dcc2c7dccea1006553, stripped
10:34:43 <izabera> `` dd bs=1 seek=7 conv=notrunc count=1 of=ls status=none <<< $'\3'; file ls
10:34:45 <HackEgo> dd: invalid status flag: `none' \ Try `dd --help' for more information. \ ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x55f1e005df252708d4c456dcc2c7dccea1006553, stripped
10:34:54 <izabera> `` dd bs=1 seek=7 conv=notrunc count=1 of=ls 2>/dev/null <<< $'\3'; file ls
10:34:58 <HackEgo> ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (GNU/Linux), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.26, BuildID[sha1]=0x55f1e005df252708d4c456dcc2c7dccea1006553, stripped
10:35:13 <izabera> `` ./ls -l ls
10:35:15 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 114032 Jul 2 09:34 ls
10:36:52 <izabera> all the elf files in my system are (SYSV) instead of (GNU/Linux)
10:52:44 <int-e> Haha. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-glibc/2001-05/msg00169.html ... anyway, "If the object file does not use any extensions, it is recommended that this byte be set to 0."
10:53:00 <int-e> (the latter quote is from https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/elf/gabi4+/ch4.eheader.html )
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12:17:22 <hppavilion[2]> The John Byrne modern-age Superman has canon regarding his facial hair
12:17:35 <hppavilion[2]> It grows normally, and he has to heat vision a reflective surface to zap it off
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12:44:47 <izabera> thanks for the link int-e
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13:14:11 <hppavilion[2]> The Imperinatus! (Starring Harrison Fnord)
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16:15:14 <Eatonion> hello
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17:14:49 <hppavilion[2]> The Y Chromosome: The human condition's expansion pack
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17:49:00 <hppavilion[2]> Trump 0 AA!
17:49:06 <hppavilion[2]> (AA = After Apocalypse)
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18:27:02 <izabera> is nobody going to talk about lwan? https://lwan.ws/
18:27:28 <izabera> people are talking about it right now literally in every other channel on freenode
18:31:26 <myname> so it's like nginx as a library?
18:32:13 <alercah> none of the channels I'm in are talking about it
18:32:21 <myname> dito
18:32:43 <myname> also, i would recommend to stay as far away from web development as possible
18:32:49 <alercah> ^
18:32:53 <alercah> nothing good can come of it
18:32:59 <alercah> try googling lolphp
18:33:12 <myname> i did php
18:33:57 <alercah> is there a channel mode we can set to quarantine you?
18:34:14 <izabera> /set mode -php
18:39:31 <lifthrasiir> any server solution beyond 10,000 RPS is only useful when you are dealing with more than 10,000,000 RPS
18:39:40 <lifthrasiir> not worth trying otherwise
18:40:09 <lifthrasiir> (generally they come with severe trade-offs)
18:56:04 <tswett> Let's talk about toonemes!
18:56:34 <tswett> In cartooning, a tooneme is a component of a drawing which comprises the smallest cartonically meaningful unit.
18:57:08 <tswett> Usually, one single line.
18:59:26 <tswett> One eyebrow, one eyelid, one contour mark of whatever kind.
19:00:34 <tswett> http://www.egscomics.com/index.php?id=1209 – look at all those toonemes!
19:02:19 <tswett> There are some interesting toonemes in between the eyebrows in panel 6. Three of them.
19:03:45 <tswett> "Angry forehead wrinkles", I suppose.
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20:34:47 <moon_> Moo
20:47:46 <\oren\> baaa
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21:26:21 <quintopia> hey
21:26:28 <ais523> hi
21:28:59 <quintopia> what do you do these days
21:30:03 <ais523> research compiler development, for about a month
21:30:16 <ais523> but I'm looking for a new job, this one's a fixed-term contract that expires soon
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21:32:06 <quintopia> find me one while you're at it ;P
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22:18:04 <zzo38> In this Dungeons&Dragons game story is one ogre is always cheating at dice (the dice are loaded so one always comes up 5 and the other one always comes up 2). We hear some ogre talking about one of them cheating at dice and one of them doubts it. To reverse the cheating, rub out the four corner dots of the five. Now they are certain to always lose at dice.
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