←2016-08-24 2016-08-25 2016-08-26→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:00:13 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: anyway, we have such a system now, it's just a different page.
00:00:21 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah
00:00:57 <oerjan> oh, a quickbooks spammer in the aubse log
00:01:34 <hppavilion[1]> (even better, we could make a user's first couple of edits non-binding (administrators must approve them), but the user isn't informed (while logged in, they see their edits as if they had gone through))
00:01:59 <hppavilion[1]> (But that'd probably require someone to create an entirely new MediaWiki plugin)
00:02:02 <oerjan> ais523: you didn't give em time to introduce emself ;P
00:02:39 <oerjan> it would have been hilarious if that was the first user to manage the process
00:03:34 <oerjan> hey since when does ais523 idle :(
00:03:48 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, were their edits after account creation purged from Recent Changes, or was it just assumed they're a spammer because no introduction was created within 2 minutes?)
00:03:51 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: No idea
00:04:23 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it won't require an entirely new mediawiki plugin because there's already an approved version feature.
00:04:32 <hppavilion[1]> I'm beginning to feel like the wiki is becoming a game of Papers, Please
00:04:36 <hppavilion[1]> Ah?
00:04:55 <ais523> oerjan: I decided to idle more
00:05:00 <oerjan> however, it will probably either show up in HackEgo announcements, or make them useless...
00:05:01 <ais523> I've been idle in my idling recently
00:05:05 <oerjan> ah.
00:05:07 <ais523> (also, for a while I idled but not in #esoteric)
00:06:05 <ais523> pending changes doesn't stop spam
00:06:14 <ais523> it hides spam from public view but it still forces admins to go and clean the spam up manually
00:06:17 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( What we really need is a decoy esolangs.org that's unrelated to the REAL esolangs.org )
00:07:28 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe we should just ban the word 'quickbooks' from ever appearing on the wiki...
00:07:33 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it wasn't purged, and you can see that (except for completely deleted pages) with the Show bots option
00:08:12 <quintopia> but how about we get in touch with these spammers and offer to let them by ad-space? they could put a banner up "want to participate in a sort tech support scam for fun and (our) profit?"
00:08:18 <quintopia> buy
00:08:29 <quintopia> short
00:11:58 -!- jaboja has joined.
00:12:00 <oerjan> `cwlprits wegian
00:12:01 <HackEgo> hppavilion[1] shachaf shachaf shachaf
00:12:21 <shachaf> ?
00:12:22 <shachaf> `howg wegian
00:12:23 <HackEgo> ​<hppavilion[1]> learn A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). \ <shachaf> rm wisdom/wegian \ <shachaf> sedlast s/member/regular/ \ <shachaf> learn A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric members. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland)
00:12:34 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You removed it for some reason.
00:12:38 <shachaf> Yes, it was scow.
00:12:48 <hppavilion[1]> It was hilarious
00:15:35 <shachaf> `? member
00:15:36 <HackEgo> I'm sorry, #esoteric has regulars, not members. Who told you about members? There are definitely no members here, and you wouldn't be allowed to know about them, anyway.
00:19:13 <quintopia> i think it was funny
00:19:50 * oerjan looks at the logs and thinks bojidar_bg must have been missing something.
00:20:12 <quintopia> also esoteric has the best members. they're yuuuuge!
00:20:31 <FireFly> `? wegian
00:20:32 <HackEgo> A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham).
00:20:40 * oerjan goes to look up this yuge meme
00:20:41 <FireFly> I like it
00:23:52 <ais523> oerjan: Trump reference
00:24:00 <ais523> as in the US presidential candidate
00:24:03 <oerjan> ais523: also bernie, it seems
00:24:40 <ais523> meh, if someone says "yuge" out of context the sentence it's in is almost certainly intended to be attributed to Trump (and the word is used to make people read the rest of the sentence in Trump's voice)
00:25:09 <oerjan> OKAY
00:25:41 <shachaf> why do people suddenly not refer to politicians by their last names anymore
00:25:51 <quintopia> i just wanted to talk about huge members
00:26:04 <oerjan> ais523: also, bojidar_bg was speaking about feather hth
00:26:11 <ais523> oh
00:26:12 <ais523> oh dear
00:26:35 <oerjan> i think he may not have understood the rewinding time semantics.
00:27:44 <quintopia> dill pickles: garlicky or no?
00:27:51 <boily> is feather going to be still alive yet now?
00:28:00 <boily> GARLIC. ALWAYS.
00:28:12 <oerjan> boily: it wioll haven been.
00:28:43 <oerjan> *be
00:28:49 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It depends on the politician
00:28:51 <oerjan> stupid grammar.
00:29:02 <quintopia> oerjan: pickle opinion?
00:29:15 <oerjan> quintopia: i don't really have a relationship to dill, sorry
00:29:35 <hppavilion[1]> Some are referred to by their full name, some by their last name, some by saying the letters in their initials, and at least one by just his middle initial
00:29:55 <quintopia> oerjan: you should.
00:29:59 <boily> oerjan: you should.
00:29:59 <shachaf> oerjan for president
00:30:08 * oerjan notes that norwegian politicians have been first-named for decades.
00:30:08 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: pickle opinion?
00:30:28 <oerjan> although not consistently.
00:31:19 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: who is this "full name" politician of which you speak?
00:31:26 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: Most old ones
00:31:28 <shachaf> oerjan: Does Harald V even have a last name?
00:31:35 * oerjan seems to have stopped reading norwegian news
00:31:46 <hppavilion[1]> George Washington is usually called "George Washington", at least much more commonly than just "Washington"
00:31:47 <oerjan> shachaf: i don't think so.
00:31:58 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: nah. those were either last name or nickname
00:32:45 <quintopia> also you left off nickname and spelling initials of nickname from your list
00:32:46 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: What do people call George Washington if not that?
00:32:58 <quintopia> washington
00:33:09 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: That's less common than "George Washington"
00:33:45 <hppavilion[1]> And "Bill Clinton" and "Teddy Roosevelt" (we count "Teddy" as his first name. Don't question it.)
00:33:57 <quintopia> maybe now, but back then "general washington" or "president washington" or even "mr washington" was more common
00:34:00 <hppavilion[1]> "Andrew Jackson"
00:34:01 <hppavilion[1]> Well yeah
00:34:04 <hppavilion[1]> True
00:34:23 <quintopia> i always just say jackson for andy jackson
00:35:11 <shachaf> I didn't know until recently that Benjamin Harrison was the grandson of William Harrison.
00:35:16 <quintopia> the other two are just fullnames to distinguish them from others with the same name
00:35:19 <shachaf> i,i grandharrison
00:35:42 <quintopia> tippecanoe the 2nd
00:35:59 <wob_jonas> ais523: "IIRC many IRC servers have been modified to close the connection if they see anything that looks like it's part of the wrong protocol" => yes, but more importantly, many irc servers (but not the one on freenode) require you to pong a ping whose body has a random string before you can do anything, to stop blind attacks that don't read what
00:35:59 <wob_jonas> the server says.
00:36:18 <quintopia> and bill clinton is just slick willy
00:36:49 <wob_jonas> They are even so helpful as to send you a notice after a few seconds if your client doesn't automatically pong so that you can pong manually.
00:37:00 <wob_jonas> (Or at least, some servers are.)
00:37:16 <wob_jonas> I've seen this on multiple networks.
00:37:18 <oerjan> @pøng
00:37:18 <lambdabot> pong
00:37:38 <ais523> now I have to remember how ø is pronounced again
00:37:42 <ais523> is it more like ö or like aw?
00:37:45 <ais523> IIRC it's one or the other
00:38:22 <shachaf> I thought it was ö
00:38:29 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: According to the guy at Epcot, it's something like "oo-i" (short i sound)
00:38:39 <hppavilion[1]> At least, that's its name
00:39:06 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: that's fairly close to ö, if you remove the i (but keep the transition between the oo and the i)
00:39:10 <wob_jonas> ais523: it's like ö. It's really the same as ö only the Norwegians use a same spelling for it. They also use æ instead of ä.
00:39:24 <ais523> so do they use œ for anything?
00:39:32 <wob_jonas> no, that's the French
00:39:37 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Ah, yes, that's probably what it is
00:40:09 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: ø is not a diphthong hth
00:40:31 <ais523> diphthongs are mostly an English thing I think
00:40:51 <ais523> but they're often comparable to vowels in other languages if you just take the transition and leave out the vowel at either side
00:40:51 <oerjan> it's like swedish ö, which is like german ö but with more protruded lips.
00:41:14 <oerjan> iirc
00:42:17 <wob_jonas> ais523: the problem with taking English vowels as a base for _anything_ is that their actual pronunciations are so much varied by dialect
00:42:26 <oerjan> ais523: it's å which is like aw hth
00:42:32 <ais523> wob_jonas: that's a good point
00:42:33 <ais523> oerjan: ah right
00:42:58 <ais523> wob_jonas: however, there are some relatively standardised pronunciations (such as the ones that are used on national BBC shows when they're trying to be understandable)
00:43:22 <wob_jonas> I suppose maybe you could still use them if you are, like, native English and are familiar with lots of dialects on four continents, so that you can say something is like this vowel as pronounced by people in this obscure Indian town where somehow everyone happens to have the same dialect.
00:43:46 <wob_jonas> It certainly won't work for me, because I'm very bad at English pronunciation, and certainly can't pronounce vowels properly according to any dialect.
00:44:28 <wob_jonas> I think I probably don't even recognize them properly unless I really pay attention, because I have no idea which word is supposed to have which of the three o vowels.
00:44:41 <oerjan> ais523: norwegian has diphthongs too, but they're written as two vowels.
00:45:07 <ais523> oerjan: in English sometimes we write them as two vowels, and sometimes we don't!
00:45:22 <ais523> and sometimes the second vowel is an e later in the word
00:45:35 <ais523> which you have to magically teleport back to the vowel it modifies
00:45:41 <ais523> and sometimes an e really is just an e
00:46:38 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, but the problem isn't those two vowels. I can't distinguish the two long ones (the "note" vowel from the "caught" vowel) and those aren't the two that many dialects unify
00:46:53 <hppavilion[1]> What are the nationalities (in demonym form) of all #esoteric regulars?
00:47:02 <wob_jonas> as in, I can't distinguish them unless I pay attention, I unify them in my mind, which is why I don't remember which word has which one
00:47:15 <ais523> wob_jonas: we have like five different long vowels in most of the less vowelmergy dialects
00:47:25 <ais523> (and in the most vowelmergy dialects it's best just to figure out the word from the consonants)
00:47:37 <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: many are Norwegian or British
00:47:45 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: Yes
00:48:13 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: english, scottish, norwegian, finnish, swedish, hungarian, polish, french, canadian, austrian, german
00:48:26 <ais523> wob_jonas: "note" and "caught" are pretty different, though, at least in the relatively neutral accent I have (my parents are from different parts of the country so their accents sort-of averaged out)
00:48:40 <oerjan> south korean, belgian
00:48:43 <ais523> wob_jonas: I can imagine that there are accents where they both make an "oi" sound though
00:48:49 <oerjan> (flemish iirc)
00:49:06 <wob_jonas> ais523: they are different, yes. "note" has the diphtong, "caught" has the plain long closed o
00:49:13 <oerjan> american of course
00:49:17 <ais523> although I'd more likely interpret "noite" as "night" rather than "note"
00:49:29 <hppavilion[1]> So other #esoteric equivalence classes include an and ish, I guess?
00:49:32 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:49:36 <ais523> wob_jonas: well "caught" is an aw, "note" is an oe
00:49:46 <ais523> those are normally considered pretty different as vowels go
00:49:59 <wob_jonas> but that diphtong (unlike the "bite" and "make" dipthong) is such a crazy alien thing for my Hungarian ears that I just mentally transform it to a plain long o
00:50:04 <ais523> I guess the vowel in "caught" is also often spelled or
00:50:11 <ais523> meaning that they both are types of o
00:50:16 <ais523> but I don't think of them like that
00:50:37 <ais523> if I undipthongise an oe it becomes more like a ur
00:50:40 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: What's the caught/cot difference pre-merger again?
00:50:51 <wob_jonas> the "there" diphtong is also alien, but I mentally transform it to a long OPEN e, so I don't confuse it with any other English vowel
00:51:13 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: "o" in cot is a short vowel and can't easily be extended
00:51:17 <ais523> your voice cracks up if you try
00:51:20 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined.
00:51:34 <ais523> (some dialects have been extending it into an or, much like in caught; that's the merger)
00:51:55 <ais523> wob_jonas: air is pretty rare as vowels go
00:52:00 <ais523> although I somehow managed it twice in a sentence by mistake
00:52:01 <oerjan> dependent on what you mean by regular, i can include indian, dutch. oh and i forgot italian.
00:52:19 <ais523> possibly because I was thinking about it and subconciously chose words that used it
00:52:44 <ais523> not sure what the spelling that actually starts with e rather than a is
00:52:46 <ais523> maybe eyr
00:52:47 <oerjan> there might be an israeli which isn't also american, i'm not quite sure.
00:52:53 <ais523> I suspect it's actually a tripthong, though
00:52:58 <ais523> rather than a dipthong
00:53:14 <wob_jonas> ais523: basically, the "bite", "make", "now" diphtongs map to what you can get in Hungarian from semivowels, spelled as "áj", "éj", "au" (the latter only when pronounced as one syllable) which occur in actual words, whereas the "note" and "there" are crazy so I can't imagine them as diphtongs, only as single sounds
00:53:20 <ais523> it starts as ay, then becomes ee, then becomes er
00:53:47 <ais523> wob_jonas: we have many more dipthongs than that, though
00:53:50 <ais523> what about "paint"?
00:54:02 <ais523> that one's /really/ common so I'm surprised you haven't listed it
00:54:09 <oerjan> i think there's also an icelandic.
00:54:10 <wob_jonas> ais: I think "paint" has the "make" diphtong, doesn't it?
00:54:15 <ais523> oh, yes
00:54:17 <ais523> missed it
00:54:20 * wob_jonas checks the dictionary
00:54:27 <oerjan> for anything more, i'd have to start looking at /who output.
00:54:32 <ais523> yes, same dipthong
00:54:40 <ais523> for some reason I missed it in your comment
00:54:56 <ais523> hmm, I wonder where my reverse phonetic dictionary got to
00:55:11 <ais523> it's not something I've needed for decades
00:55:24 <hppavilion[1]> What's the worst sound?
00:55:38 <oerjan> we've had australians and new zealanders before, but i'm not sure if there are any here these days.
00:55:40 <wob_jonas> there is one more, the "here" diphtong, which is less common, and I DO confuse it with the ordinary long i sound from "sheep", and there are some other vowels that might be diphtongs in some pronunciations
00:55:42 <ais523> (actually I'm not 100% sure I ever really needed it; I read a lot so it's rare to need to figure out how a word is spelled given only its pronounciation, the reverse problem is more common)
00:55:54 <wob_jonas> also, what I'm confused about very often depends on the spelling too
00:55:58 <ais523> yes, "here" is distinct and also fairly rare
00:56:09 <wob_jonas> because I know English spelling much more than pronunciatino
00:56:12 <wob_jonas> I can blame you for that
00:56:16 <wob_jonas> I chat too much in English
00:56:19 <oerjan> <ais523> (and in the most vowelmergy dialects it's best just to figure out the word from the consonants) <-- hm ... english abjad
00:56:44 <hppavilion[1]> sixthong
00:56:55 <ais523> wob_jonas: well you have problems like the spelling "ere" being used for two distinct vowel combinations
00:57:05 <oerjan> <wob_jonas> hppavilion[1]: many are Norwegian or British <-- i don't think there are more than two norwegians. and i'm not sure if the other guy is still here.
00:57:15 <ais523> (and not being the spelling that you'd use for either if you were trying to construct a consistent spelling for dipthongs)
00:57:35 <ais523> rune was norwegian, I think, but I haven't seen them for ages
00:57:48 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: oh also swiss, when he comes around.
00:58:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oooh, english abjad
00:58:44 <hppavilion[1]> (what is the highest-order thong used in any common languages?)
00:59:09 <wob_jonas> ais523: instead of the crazy attempts to invent alternate spelling system, at least one person has started to devise an alternate English _dialect_ where the pronunciation is connected better to the writing yet is also more or less understandible as a dialect of English by existing speakers,
00:59:09 <oerjan> <ais523> wob_jonas: "note" and "caught" are pretty different, though [...] <-- iirc they're much more different in english (RP) than in average american
00:59:14 <wob_jonas> what was the homepage again
00:59:30 <wob_jonas> http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/mark/regeng/
00:59:31 <wob_jonas> that
00:59:37 <wob_jonas> sadly it's an unfinished project
00:59:46 <wob_jonas> but it's a really good idea and they started it the right way
00:59:48 <shachaf> oerjan: "General American" plz twh thx
00:59:49 <ais523> oerjan: I'm talking about british english here, I'm much less experienced with american
01:00:10 <ais523> [an error occurred while processing this directive]
01:00:13 <ais523> followed by a 404 message
01:00:57 <wob_jonas> I have a pronunciation that is more close to British in many ways, probably because it's influenced by my learning English in early years (at which time obviously I didn't chat on the internet in English)
01:01:20 <wob_jonas> but of course it's also a horrible English as second language pronunciation with Hungarian accent
01:01:24 <shachaf> I think they're pretty different, anyway.
01:01:37 <oerjan> <ais523> I guess the vowel in "caught" is also often spelled or <-- only possibly equivalent in non-rhotic accents?
01:01:58 <ais523> oerjan: I think that's pretty much the definition of a non-rhotic accent
01:02:31 <hppavilion[1]> (hm, can dipthongs be r-colored?)
01:03:07 <ais523> oerjan: I find it hard to hear the difference between the rhotic and non-rhotic pronouncation though because they both have the same meaning in English
01:03:08 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, non-rhotic is most of it, but also the rest of vowels (that don't have r in them) are more like British
01:03:11 <ais523> so my brain didn't learn the difference
01:03:16 <wob_jonas> hpp: yes, the one in "fire"
01:03:24 <wob_jonas> which is a triphtong but still
01:03:51 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, that's why I can't just learn to _pronounce_ a rhotic pronunciation, even though I'd prefer to
01:04:25 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> What's the worst sound? <-- czech r hacek hth
01:04:28 <wob_jonas> It's hard to bring myself to actually pronounce any "r" that isn't pronounced in non-rhotic
01:04:33 <ais523> "air" is another rhotic tripthong I think
01:05:22 <\oren\> caught is the same as cot
01:05:45 <\oren\> short o
01:06:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Can't figure out what that means
01:06:32 <ais523> \oren\: that's the caught/cot merger
01:06:40 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, that's the "there" vowel
01:06:42 <ais523> it's not about rhoticity, as much as short 'o' becoming long 'or'
01:06:46 <wob_jonas> and so is the "here" vowel
01:06:51 <ais523> wob_jonas: yes
01:06:53 <hppavilion[1]> (doubly-rhotic vowel...)
01:07:06 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: "arr", like a pirate?
01:07:12 <hppavilion[1]> Sure
01:07:16 <\oren\> ř
01:07:48 <hppavilion[1]> (If we assume that any vowel can be made rhotic and that a rhotic vowel is still a vowel, then you should be able to arbitrarily rhotate any vowel)
01:07:55 <\oren\> so would that be a taught-tort merger?
01:08:13 <hppavilion[1]> (In math, r's must be pronounced with omega rhotations)
01:08:32 <hppavilion[1]> (French is the most erhotic language)
01:08:41 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: "General American" plz twh thx <-- OKAY
01:09:08 <\oren\> I speak something like GA but with even more mergers
01:10:01 * boily thwacke hppavilion[1]. 0.95 shachafs.
01:10:22 <\oren\> father bother taught cot all have the same vowel
01:10:40 <hppavilion[1]> If General American becomes too dense, we'll reach a singularity and all possible mergers will occur
01:10:51 <shachaf> boily: ?
01:10:57 <hppavilion[1]> Making all words exactly the same
01:11:04 <shachaf> Oh, wait.
01:11:04 <boily> \oren\: I beg to francophonely disagree hth
01:11:10 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: would we have to speak in Unary?
01:11:14 <boily> shachaf: cf. erhotic.
01:11:15 <shachaf> You highlighted me so I thought you thought I made a pun.
01:11:17 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yes
01:11:25 <shachaf> You should use some other unit that doesn't highlight me.
01:11:42 <boily> the shachaf?
01:11:50 <hppavilion[1]> boily: use grumpychafs
01:11:53 * oerjan thinks that at school, we were supposedly learning a british pronunciation of english. but when at 18 i got to travel to australia, people there commented on how american we sounded.
01:12:00 <ais523> sounds sort-of like a sheaf
01:12:00 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, "father" and "brother" seem like they should have similar sounds, but they don't
01:12:03 <ais523> so more imperial than metric
01:12:07 <boily> hppavilion[1]: shachaf gets hilited on the chaf part.
01:12:14 <ais523> I guess for it to be a metric unit of measurement shachaf would have to become a world-famous scientist
01:12:30 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
01:12:38 <\oren\> foTR bruDR
01:12:43 <wob_jonas> hpp: so does "word" and "sword"
01:12:45 <ais523> oerjan: the thing that gives it away to me is normally word choice
01:12:45 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: e isn't?
01:12:51 <ais523> like people saying "bathroom" to mean "toilet"
01:13:04 <ais523> this is a common result of people learning English from American soaps
01:13:16 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
01:13:20 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: it's Taneb who's the inventor
01:13:20 <shachaf> ais523: My coworkers always made fun of a British coworker.
01:13:31 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Well yeah
01:13:32 <shachaf> He would say that he washes his hands in the toilet.
01:13:37 <ais523> `? tanebventions
01:13:38 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
01:14:00 <ais523> shachaf: I dont think in British English you'd word it like that
01:14:03 <hppavilion[1]> `? tanebventions: math
01:14:04 <HackEgo> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, the axiom of choice, the reals, Lambek's lemma, pointless topology, and histograms.
01:14:11 <ais523> a sensible sentence would be along the lines of "I'm going to the toilets to wash my hands"
01:14:16 <hppavilion[1]> `? torus
01:14:17 <HackEgo> Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented it.
01:14:18 <shachaf> ais523: Hmm, maybe they just made fun of him by rephrasing it.
01:14:23 <\oren\> all in all my dialect has 13 vowels and four vowel-like consonants
01:14:34 <shachaf> ais523: Anyway we also got the word "sauzzled" from him, and others.
01:14:42 <shachaf> You wouldn't spell it like that either.
01:14:44 <ais523> shachaf: the usual spelling I see is "sozzled"
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01:14:52 <\oren\> sozLd
01:14:52 <hppavilion[1]> `le/rn torus/Topologically, a torus is just a torus. Taneb invented it so he'd have something to drink his coffee out of.
01:14:53 <ais523> it's not a very common word, though
01:14:54 <HackEgo> Relearned «torus»
01:14:59 <ais523> given that it's slang, and fairly rare slang at that
01:15:02 <shachaf> ais523: It's not?
01:15:17 <shachaf> But it's widely understood, right?
01:15:18 <ais523> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sozzled
01:15:23 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Can't figure out what that means <-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%98 (hm i'd never heard that narvik thing before)
01:15:25 <ais523> yes, widely understood at least
01:15:31 <ais523> we just have so many different words for being drunk
01:15:45 <ais523> that any particular word is fairly uncommonly used unless it's very commonly used
01:15:56 <ais523> (err, urban dictionary is probably NSFW for language)
01:16:08 <\oren\> NSFL
01:16:12 <ais523> (so you might not want to check it at work)
01:16:28 <shachaf> ais523: E.g. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VqbkoZcfbEg/V5l94B-IxQI/AAAAAAAABQQ/CaflMWl7Z2o8dk4zkQfB4iXFSclFlTI5ACL0B/w1056-h1408-no
01:16:50 <ais523> what an uninformative URL
01:17:32 <\oren\> it's an image but doesn't even end in a image format
01:17:47 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: If I didn't already know for a fact that googleusercontent.com was actually owned by google, I'd be suspicious
01:18:02 <shachaf> google1mag3s.info
01:18:12 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: I'm suspicious anyway
01:18:20 <ais523> because the whole point of that domain is that it's for content that google doesn't trust
01:18:35 <ais523> (it's a different domain so that it violates the same origin policy if it tries to do anything with google cookies or the like)
01:18:47 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
01:18:49 <shachaf> I copied it from a Google Hangout conversation.
01:19:00 <quintopia> so let's see...i missed a discussion of vowel pronunciations, shachaf's grumpiness, and the differences between american and british...anything interesting?
01:19:10 <shachaf> The URL was even worse before, but I removed the bit at the end that said "account id"
01:19:29 <\oren\> my spelling system also solves the metre meter debacle by spelling it mEtR
01:19:30 <ais523> quintopia: it depends on what you consider interesting, I guess
01:19:49 <shachaf> Spelling ought to be completely distinct from pronunciation.
01:19:49 <quintopia> ais523: what do you consider interesting?
01:19:52 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I'd probably go with googlelmages.info, and always write it in almost-full caps like GOOGLElMAGES.INFO
01:19:55 <\oren\> wait or is that mEdR
01:19:57 <ais523> we've had some BF Joust stuff too (mostly because Lymia went and wrote a program generator that writes a program to beat the entire hill)
01:20:03 <quintopia> shachaf: they are, in tibetan
01:20:19 <ais523> quintopia: I consider the BF Joust stuff to be interesting, if fairly annoying
01:20:20 <\oren\> hmm does my dialect even distinguish t and d in words?
01:20:31 <quintopia> ais523: i was here for that, i think?
01:20:39 <ais523> the English stuff is offtopic but interesting enough to not enforce topicality on it
01:20:45 <hppavilion[1]> (If Americans don't want to use the metric system, why did we insist on changing the spelling of metre?)
01:20:55 <ais523> (that said, something has to be both highly offtopic and highly uninteresting before we enforce topicality here)
01:21:04 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: because f the french
01:21:12 <shachaf> There was also some discussion of Feather
01:21:16 <\oren\> holy shit I have a batter-badder merger
01:21:19 <ais523> fortunately I missed that
01:21:20 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: I'm pretty sure America likes the french
01:21:21 <shachaf> But ais523 would rather have an offtopic-conversation.
01:21:27 <shachaf> s/-/ /
01:21:36 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: See: Mandarin
01:21:39 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: how did you come to this conclusion?
01:21:39 <shachaf> Not sure where that German influence came from.
01:21:42 <ais523> \oren\: t/d merge isn't that rare
01:21:51 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: Revolutionary War
01:21:54 <ais523> shachaf: is the Feather stuff even worth looking at?
01:21:56 <oerjan> <ais523> I guess for it to be a metric unit of measurement shachaf would have to become a world-famous scientist <-- . o O ( who's the most obscure scientist with an SI unit )
01:22:05 <shachaf> ais523: I don't think there was more than a line or two.
01:22:06 <hppavilion[1]> Personally, I think we should go back to the Old English system of spelling where you can do pretty much whatever you want and nobody complains
01:22:11 <ais523> I have half a feeling that nobody else can really discuss Feather as it is because although I don't understand it either, I know more about it than most people
01:22:31 <shachaf> oerjan: Surely the smoot is at least as well-known as some SI units.
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01:22:42 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: then you are pretty sure the pre-americans of 225 years ago liked the revolutionary pre-napoleonic french of 225 years ago
01:22:47 <hppavilion[1]> "I know much more about it than the normal person, having only a negative 432 IQ when thinking about it"
01:22:56 <hppavilion[1]> Well, yeah
01:23:21 <ais523> like, I'm not even sure if I ever wrote down my big list of things a language needs to be Feather
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01:23:27 <ais523> because doing so would require thinking about Feather
01:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> But most Americans can't really tell the difference between 225 years ago and today except in technology
01:23:31 <ais523> ugh, I'm on the verge of thinking about it right now
01:23:46 <quintopia> ais523: you never could even explain it in enough detail that anyone could even begin to infer such things
01:23:53 <hppavilion[1]> If you asked me before that, I almost would've said Napoleon died long before the Revolutionary War
01:24:04 <ais523> quintopia: I know
01:24:24 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: You didn't mess with tenses enough
01:24:27 <ais523> this is at least partly because all the more concrete bits keep changing to fit the more conceptual bits in
01:24:47 <ais523> the time travel model itself is very firm and easy to explain
01:24:48 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: now you're begging to question again. how do you know what most americans *today* believe and understand?
01:25:11 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Isn't the entire point of Feather that it's impossible, even with an oracle for all the biggest distinct undecidable problems?
01:25:17 <ais523> (it's basically "change the value that a clone function returned via rewinding in time to the point it was run, then continuing")
01:25:21 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: no
01:25:29 <shachaf> That would be boring.
01:25:30 <ais523> admittedly I haven't figured out how to make it work, but it's meant to be possible
01:25:35 <hppavilion[1]> quintopia: I'm an American and I live today
01:25:37 <ais523> a time paradox would typically lead to an infinite loop
01:25:51 <ais523> the bigger problem is that a time loop can happen despite the lack of a contradiction
01:26:06 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: so am i, but i get the sense my understanding of american zeitgeist differs from yours
01:26:14 <ais523> i.e. the problem is, when you go back and change the past, you need to change it in such a way that you decide not to use your time machine in the future
01:26:23 <ais523> ideally without changing anything else
01:26:35 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Are stable time loops possible? And are paradoxes the only (or best) way to execute an infinite loop?
01:26:40 <ais523> some fixes to this problem involve, say, checking if an object has a method, and if not, going back in time to add it
01:27:02 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: stable time loops are possible in the same way that terminating recursion is possible
01:27:06 <ais523> you need to find a base case somewhere
01:27:20 <ais523> I was planning to have regular recursion too for loops
01:27:21 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: So it isn't a proper stable time loop then
01:27:24 <ais523> Feather isn't intentionally hard to use
01:27:41 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: well, the thing is
01:27:50 <ais523> suppose you write an infinite recursion
01:27:55 <ais523> you can approximate that with a finite recursion, right?
01:28:17 <ais523> (depending on the algo the approximation might either be good, or terrible, but the point is that you get a better approximation by cutting it off after a larger number of steps)
01:28:51 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: my sense of the american zeitgeist with regards to france is "it's far enough away to mostly ignore, but you'd think they'd help with the war more given their muslim problem. also they spell and pronounce everything all wrong"
01:29:02 * ais523 is waiting for a yes, or possibly no
01:29:34 <ais523> you don't get to ask me about Feather without having to think about the consequences too!
01:30:32 <oerjan> <\oren\> holy shit I have a batter-badder merger <-- coincidentally i learned just the other day about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flapping
01:31:51 <ais523> …did I break hppavilion[1] already? I haven't even really reached the mindscrewy part yet
01:32:52 <quintopia> seems like it
01:33:08 <quintopia> feather does that...it's paradoxically quite the heavy burden to bear
01:44:37 <oerjan> * ais523 is waiting for a yes, or possibly no <-- it works in denotational semantics
01:45:04 <ais523> oerjan: yes, I know it works
01:45:10 <ais523> I just don't know whether hppavilion[1] knows it works
01:45:16 <oerjan> oh
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04:36:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49632&oldid=49623 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+591)
04:36:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49633&oldid=49632 * Rjhunjhunwala * (-11)
05:01:46 <zzo38> ?metar CYVR
05:01:46 <lambdabot> CYVR 250300Z 31006KT 30SM FEW240 20/15 A3012 RMK CI1 SLP202 DENSITY ALT 300FT
05:53:53 <\oren\> If I got a raise, does that indicate that I'm doing a good job?
05:54:09 <\oren\> s/If //
05:54:35 <zzo38> Ask them
05:59:11 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: wage?
05:59:25 <lifthrasiir> normally there is only a slight correlation
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06:06:38 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: really? what determines pay increases normally?
06:07:15 <pikhq> Flapping of butterflies, near as I can figure.
06:08:01 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: the duration of employment so far, employer's urge to share the profits, some quantum entanglements, etc
06:10:01 <\oren\> I see. maybe I'll just look up some sort of management book
06:11:05 <lifthrasiir> \oren\: more seriously, the most important factor determining your wage is the wage at the first month (or year)
06:11:43 <lifthrasiir> there are always exceptions, but normally the increments (even after incentives) are not large enough to make up for the loss at the first wage
06:12:07 <lifthrasiir> and the sad thing is the first wage is often determined by very irrational factors
06:12:32 <\oren\> Hmm... well, my pay when I started this job was 70 kilodollars, and it's been raised to 80, but I wasn't told why
06:12:57 <zzo38> You should ask them why
06:13:02 <zzo38> That is how you can learn.
06:13:02 <lifthrasiir> 70k$ for years and then raised suddenly?
06:13:19 <\oren\> lifthrasiir: no, I got this job last year
06:13:24 <zzo38> One possibility is inflation I suppose
06:13:25 <\oren\> after graduation
06:13:56 <\oren\> zzo38: yeah, this year, the canadian dollar went down after the price of gasoline
06:14:39 <lifthrasiir> yeah, the durational increment is one way to counter inflation
06:14:54 <zzo38> I live in Canada, but I do not pay attention to that kinds of stuff; I do not drive a car
06:15:18 <lifthrasiir> when you've got no explanation it is most likely explanation: you've got the standard increment
06:15:42 <lifthrasiir> I guess asking about the true explanation doesn't harm, though
06:17:53 <shachaf> It probably means that your employer thought you were underpaid, and enough to worry about retention.
06:18:57 <shachaf> Whether that's due to re-evaluating how good of a job you were doing or market changes or other reasons, who knows.
06:19:16 <\oren\> shachaf: actually, now that I think about it, maybe they noticed those google people stalking my linkedin
06:20:14 <lifthrasiir> google people always stalk everyone
06:20:31 <shachaf> Well, Google pays more than that even for entry-level engineering employees.
06:20:41 <lifthrasiir> I'm not on linkedin (for my personal policy to avoid SNSes anyway) and was contacted three or four times so far
06:20:52 <pikhq> Though, Google also tends to employ in areas where 80 kilodollars is starvation wages.
06:20:56 <shachaf> Even for interns, I think. And so do most silly valley employers as far as I know.
06:21:02 <lifthrasiir> pikhq: bay area?
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06:21:16 <pikhq> Yup.
06:21:17 <lifthrasiir> even 120k$ will barely make a cut, I guess
06:21:40 <shachaf> Top internship offers in silly valley: https://twitter.com/rodneyfolz/status/724787290824798209
06:22:04 <pikhq> 120k$ goes somewhere from not far at all to, well, living pretty comfortably. Depending strongly on personal choices.
06:22:35 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I bet I could get my school to unblock PornHub by justifying it with http://www.pornhub.com/insights/ (actually 100% SFW, surprisingly, assuming that sex-related words describing what people search for for purely statistical reasons aren't considered NSFW)
06:22:58 <lifthrasiir> pikhq: my average monthly expense does not exceed 1200$, I think, and I'm paid several times more (less than \oren\ however ;) so I'm pretty comfortable with that
06:23:16 <hppavilion[1]> (They'd have a lot of trouble figuring it out, and I'd need to have a justification along the lines of "I need it for an essay", but it would work)
06:23:36 <shachaf> When I moved to the bay area in 2010, my expenses were ~$1000/month.
06:23:55 <pikhq> lifthrasiir: Yeah, if that's your typical monthly expenses $50k is pretty nice.
06:24:20 <shachaf> Admittedly my standard of living would have been higher for the same cost somewhere else.
06:24:23 <\oren\> pikhq: I made the personal choice to keep living in my parents' house with no rent, hence my only expenses are food, cell phone and video games
06:24:33 <hppavilion[1]> ...wow, http://www.pornhub.com/emoji is just wrong
06:24:35 <lifthrasiir> pikhq: it's weird that the price level of Korea is actually considerably high
06:24:47 <pikhq> Good god does cost of living effect the value of money.
06:25:14 <shachaf> If income scales with cost of living, it probably makes sense to live in the highest cost-of-living area.
06:25:19 <shachaf> Of course, it usually doesn't.
06:25:30 <lifthrasiir> pikhq: the effect of higher price level seems to affect multi-person households, though
06:25:36 <lifthrasiir> s/the effect of/*
06:25:48 <lifthrasiir> s/\/\*$/\/\/*/ (sigh)
06:26:07 * lifthrasiir should have used s### instead
06:27:39 <pikhq> I suspect that *on average* the income to cost of living ratio is best near reasonably sizable cities but not the huge ones, in the US. (think Kansas City)
06:27:46 <\oren\> I mean yeah, living at your parents' house as an adult is sometimes considered.. pathetic, but most people in my generation are doing it anyway...
06:28:12 <pikhq> \oren\: Maybe pathetic by some, but by current generation standards it's hardly noteworthy.
06:28:32 <pikhq> Particularly if you've got a paying job.
06:29:03 <lifthrasiir> living alone is a bit hard, especially when you haven't lived alone at all
06:29:20 <\oren\> My parents left home at like 18 and got their own apartments and cars and such
06:29:25 <lifthrasiir> I was on dorms for some decades and I was quite comfortable living alone
06:29:49 <shachaf> \oren\: Anyway I bet you could be making a lot more money elsewhere if you cared to.
06:29:54 <pikhq> When my mom was my age, she had 4 kids.
06:30:19 <pikhq> shachaf: Possibly, but not relative to cost of living for him.
06:30:27 <lifthrasiir> I *had* to live with parents when I've initially graduated, but I got frustrated enough that I've got a shared house next year
06:30:28 <shachaf> Probably even in Toronto.
06:30:34 <shachaf> But I don't know.
06:30:47 <pikhq> shachaf: $80k *and living in his parents house*. Hard to beat. :)
06:31:14 <shachaf> That's ~$62k in USD
06:31:30 <lifthrasiir> I wouldn't be surprised that \oren\ can put 90% of one's income to the saving account ;)
06:31:35 <lifthrasiir> s/that/if/
06:31:40 <lifthrasiir> I once did
06:31:48 * pikhq wishes he made $62k in St Louis.
06:31:56 <lifthrasiir> now down to about 60%
06:31:59 <pikhq> ... Granted, at $55k I lived like a king there.
06:32:37 <pikhq> Oh, $750 rent, how I miss thee.
06:32:56 <\oren\> rent in toronto is typically $2000/mo
06:33:05 <\oren\> or more
06:33:15 <shachaf> That's pretty expensive.
06:33:49 <pikhq> Not *quite* Bay Area madness, but that's not far off.
06:34:06 <shachaf> In Berkeley I pay <$1500/month for a 1br apartment.
06:34:20 <shachaf> Which I think is somewhat below market.
06:34:27 <pikhq> Yeah.
06:34:39 <shachaf> Admittedly it's not the highest-quality of apartments. But it's also walking distance to BART and to the office I work at.
06:34:52 <\oren\> you can get it to 1400 if you're willing to take an hour commute to work in the city centre
06:36:32 <lifthrasiir> depending on public transport quality it might be actually a good trade-off
06:36:52 <\oren\> public transit in toronto? horrendous
06:36:59 <lifthrasiir> thought so
06:37:43 <\oren\> I take the subway to work currently, and over a distnce of 5 km, it's only marginally faster than walking
06:38:12 <lifthrasiir> my house and workplace are about 20km apart, but there is a crazy subway inbetween which takes only <15 min (!!!!!)
06:38:22 <lifthrasiir> Seoul is kind of crazy city
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06:38:47 <\oren\> that's a nice subway
06:39:30 <shachaf> trains discussion in #trains hth
06:39:39 <lifthrasiir> TIL that channel
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06:41:05 <lifthrasiir> ...does that channel really exist
06:41:10 <shachaf> Of course.
06:41:39 <\oren\> this summer the streetcar is down because... I have no idea why. they just decided to tear up the tracks
06:42:19 <\oren\> so instead there is a bus, which is much slower than walking because of traffic
06:43:07 <\oren\> traffic made worse because of the construction in the middle of the road
06:43:54 <lifthrasiir> shachaf: I tend not to talk much about trains because I know of several train maniacs (I tend to mock them with that word, hah) and every time I say about trains I cannot switch the topic to others
06:43:59 <\oren\> and I bet they'll leave giant potholes in the road till next summer
06:44:15 <shachaf> lifthrasiir: That's why it's a separate channel.
06:44:19 <lifthrasiir> indeed
06:44:27 <shachaf> So you can not pay attention to it when you don't want to.
06:44:48 <lifthrasiir> ...wait so you are assuming that I'm supposed to join that channel already
06:49:40 <shachaf> You're not supposed to do anything.
06:52:38 <lifthrasiir> ah, thought that I'm supposed to join to that channel and *ignore* any conversation
06:52:48 <lifthrasiir> not to join is an option apparently
06:52:57 <shachaf> You can do whatever you like.
07:11:22 <hppavilion[1]> Megastructure is a stupid word
07:15:44 <hppavilion[1]> Clearly, we must also define Hellostructure, Yoctostructure, Zeptostructure, Attostructure, Femtostructure, Picostructure, Nanostructure, Microstructure, Millistructure, Centistructure, Decistructure, Dekastructure, Hectostructure, Kilostructure, Gigastructure, Terastructure, Petastructure, Exastructure, Zetastructure, Yottastructure, and Hellastructure as well if we wish to use it
07:16:01 <hppavilion[1]> Along with, perhaps, Myriastructure and Dimistructure
07:20:51 <hppavilion[1]> Wikipedia's article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megagon has the example image labeled "a regular megagon"
07:21:19 <hppavilion[1]> If you open the image, it says in the description that it's just a black circle
07:21:37 <shachaf> Ask for your money back.
07:26:27 <myname> i first sumbled upon it on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/65537-gon
07:27:01 <myname> if you open the actual svg, it _is_ a circle
07:28:54 <pikhq> Nope, it is clearly not a circle.
07:29:22 <pikhq> The SVG has a big ol' <polygon> in it.
07:29:50 <myname> oh, sl someone actually did it?
07:29:51 <myname> neat
07:30:21 <pikhq> Yup. Checked the source.
07:34:47 <Jafet> what is the minimum n for which a 1-pixel-wide regular n-gon, on a typical display, is indistinguishable from a circle?
07:39:05 <Taneb> 1 pixel wide isn't very wide at all
07:39:07 <pikhq> 1 HTH
07:40:01 <Jafet> that was just a warm-up problem, of course
07:40:09 <int-e> "indistinguishable" by what means, and what is a "typical display"
07:40:14 <Jafet> (3, 4 if anti-aliased?)
07:41:11 <int-e> in this era of billion pixel displays they may all be invisible on one of those ;-)
07:48:12 <Jafet> what is the minimum n for which a solid regular n-gon is indistinguishable from a disk, if both are rendered 1000 pixels in diameter with 256-level linear grayscale anti-aliasing?
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08:22:44 <int-e> Do I get to choose a non-integral offset for rendering, and can I distinguish all grey levels?
08:26:43 <int-e> (Somehow these clarification questions are more interesting to me than the problem itself... I can do estimates like when the polygon border never differs by more than 0.1 pixels from the circle, but the actual question seems to require doing the actual rendering, at least partially, for various n and adjusted radii... doing that efficiently will get messy)
08:33:05 <izabera> can you imagine if another fermat prime is ever found
08:33:18 <izabera> someone will have to construct it as a regular polygon
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08:48:10 <Jafet> the next constructible p-gon candidate is 2^2^33 + 1, apparently
08:51:21 <Jafet> int-e: since the relative distances of the vertices (and pixel fragment areas) are irrational, any solution will probably have non-zero wiggle room for the offsets (both linear and angular)
08:52:23 <Jafet> maybe this can be provably solved by relaxation to some linear programs...
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09:35:50 <b_jonas> `bardworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=the-simplest-solution
09:35:51 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bardworthlist: not found
09:35:57 <b_jonas> wait, we don't have that?
09:35:58 <b_jonas> oh well
10:15:20 <int-e> Jafet: yes I got to the point where there's wiggle room; that's what I called messy.
10:15:29 <int-e> or wiggling room
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11:48:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Alacrity]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49634&oldid=43000 * LegionMammal978 * (+13) /* External resources */ obviously
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13:49:15 <MDude> https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s526x395/14034901_329713930752185_4290839317358935232_n.jpg?oh=1572f16b3581b724deb362f55e644180&oe=5857D782/join #lainchan
13:49:20 <MDude> dangit
13:49:42 <MDude> COmptuer you need to actually pay attention when I do things like ctrl+a to high light text.
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13:54:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49635&oldid=49158 * Erikkonstas * (+208) File argument
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14:38:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49636&oldid=49633 * TuxCrafting * (+39) i dont think you want this in a `pre` block
14:42:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49637&oldid=49636 * TuxCrafting * (+13) It's not Markdown ._.
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15:31:03 <oerjan> `` ls bin/b*list
15:31:05 <HackEgo> bin/bardsworthlist
15:31:14 <oerjan> b_jonas: i recommend correct spelling hth
15:35:10 <b_jonas> ah.... right
15:35:13 <b_jonas> typo
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15:43:36 <oerjan> panel 2 of today's darths & droids doesn't make sense to me. have they managed to mix up annie and sally?
15:44:16 <oerjan> otoh sally is in university now, isn't she...
15:44:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49638&oldid=49119 * Erikkonstas * (+710) Joke? Not designed as a joke, though.
15:44:22 <oerjan> maybe not.
15:45:12 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[MiniStringFuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49639&oldid=49635 * Erikkonstas * (+28)
15:45:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49640&oldid=49062 * Erikkonstas * (+21) MSF- in!
15:45:56 <oerjan> or wait... annie and _ben_?
15:46:20 * oerjan assumes he'll find out in the forum.
15:47:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[!!SuperPrime]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49641&oldid=49034 * Erikkonstas * (+0)
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16:35:18 <\oren\> man we need more people in other time zones.
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16:36:53 <\oren\> Or maybe less?
16:37:11 <\oren\> Proposal: put all of north america on one time zone
16:37:31 <\oren\> and all of europe on another
16:37:52 <oerjan> (re above: apparently no one in the forum thought it was weird)
16:38:00 <oerjan> `? oren
16:38:00 <HackEgo> oren is a Canadian esolanger who would like to obliterate time zones so that he can talk to his father who lives in the same house. He'll orobablu get the hang of toycj tuping soon. He also has a rabid hatred of the two-storey lowercase a and other shady characters.
16:38:45 <\oren\> is france on the same time zone as poland yet?
16:39:06 <oerjan> there's just an hour difference, it's not like it'll matter
16:39:19 <\oren\> actually, it looks like they are
16:39:21 <oerjan> if poland even is eastern - let me check
16:39:30 <oerjan> @time FreeFull
16:39:32 <lambdabot> Local time for FreeFull is Thu Aug 25 16:39:32 2016
16:39:52 <oerjan> that's not poland. oh right he's actually in the uk isn't he
16:40:08 <oerjan> @time nortti
16:40:09 <lambdabot> Local time for nortti is Thu Aug 25 18:40:09 2016
16:40:19 <oerjan> that's better. finland is eastern.
16:40:33 <\oren\> the uk is weird on the map I found. It's not on the same time zone as spain
16:41:10 <oerjan> the uk isn't weird by definition, that's where the zero meridian is.
16:41:18 <\oren\> which means that you can change time zones by flying directly south
16:41:35 <oerjan> the spanish decided to join their french neighbors, though.
16:42:29 <oerjan> the middle zone contains a lot more countries than you'd think just by geography.
16:43:13 <oerjan> presumably because it is convenient for neighbors to have the same one.
16:45:32 <\oren\> well maybe everyone in eurasia should use Moscow time
16:46:04 <FreeFull> Yeah, there is a lot of countries in UTC+1
16:46:51 <FreeFull> Both France and Spain should be in UTC+0 by geographyy
16:47:05 <FreeFull> But they're in UTC+1 for some reason
16:49:04 <FreeFull> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Standard_World_Time_Zones.png
16:49:06 <\oren\> well actually, now that britain isn't in the EU, it whould be easier for the EU to have a single time zone
16:49:12 <FreeFull> Timezones are weird
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16:49:51 <\oren\> and we should have as few of them as possible
16:49:56 <FreeFull> \oren\: You'd need to change the timezone of Greece, Bulgaria and Romania though
16:50:17 <FreeFull> Nepal is UTC+5.75
16:50:33 <\oren\> Whyyyyy
16:50:55 <FreeFull> Australia is split into UTC+8.75, UTC+9.5 and UTC+10
16:50:57 <\oren\> they should be the same as either china or india
16:51:30 <FreeFull> India is UTC+5.5
16:52:23 <\oren\> I don't really care what the offsets are, I just think there should be fewer zones
16:52:38 <FreeFull> You'll never convince people
16:52:47 <\oren\> india and china each have only one zone
16:52:50 <oerjan> standardize on UTC+3.14 everywhere
16:53:08 <\oren\> despite their horizontal extent
16:53:12 <b_jonas> FreeFull: WHAT? isn't Australia split to three zones, two of which are integer hours offset?
16:53:36 * b_jonas checks
16:54:20 <FreeFull> b_jonas: Oh, the map I'm looking at might not be fully correct
16:54:58 <quintopia> timezones are great and we should have as many as possible :D
16:55:38 <b_jonas> Australia is split to +0800 (Perth), +0930 (empty desert), and +1000 (where all the big cities are)
16:56:06 <\oren\> ok, how about eight time zones: San Francisco, New York, London, Berlin, Moscow, Delhi, Beijing, Tokyo
16:57:22 <b_jonas> \oren\: that doesn't work. you can't have all of the African tropics switch DST backwards
16:58:10 <\oren\> ok, how about eight time zones in the northern hemisphere, and the southern hemisphere does somthign else
16:58:26 <quintopia> why do we need to put entire countries or territories in the same time zone? let's just inconvenience everyone proportional to their size and have 24 time zones which exactly correspond with 15 degree multiple longitude lines
16:58:57 <\oren\> quintopia: mostly for easy referencing
16:59:13 <quintopia> \oren\: lol good one
16:59:26 <\oren\> like "I'm in China, therefore, beijing time, all the time"
16:59:44 <quintopia> china is weird
17:00:14 <quintopia> it would be a lot easier to reference by just looking up a place's longitude and not having to do any special casing
17:00:32 <quintopia> just put gps chips in every clock too
17:02:24 <\oren\> or maybe all of north america should use Dallas time
17:03:54 <FreeFull> It'd be cool if all of the world used actual local time, like how it was back in the time of sun dials
17:04:22 <quintopia> actually that would suck. did suck. that's why zones were invented
17:05:21 <\oren\> well, people actually noticed it when they began traveling fast by train
17:05:37 <b_jonas> FreeFull: that was more like in the time of temple clocks
17:05:42 <b_jonas> \oren\: exactly
17:05:53 <b_jonas> they used local times everywhere, which was horrible for following train travel timetables
17:05:59 <quintopia> hard to put together a train time table when every town uses a differentime
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17:37:08 <\oren\> I wonder why all my spaceplanes hav twin tails
17:38:45 <quintopia> you played a lot of sonic when you were younger
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18:55:46 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a way to draw a regular hexagram in one stroke the same way you can a regular pentagram?
18:56:16 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm going to guess no, and that that's true for any n-gram where n is even)
18:56:46 <Taneb> It's two triangles
18:56:48 <nortti> there is a rule for draw a graph without taking an edge twice, but I forget what it is
18:56:50 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, looks like I'm wrong; you can do it with an octagram
18:57:29 <Taneb> nortti, there must be either zero or precisely two nodes with odd degree
18:57:35 <nortti> ah, thanks
18:57:45 <nortti> yea, that makes sense
18:57:50 <hppavilion[1]> (heptagrams are much more holy than hexagrams)
18:57:52 <Taneb> If zero, it makes a loop
18:57:54 <nortti> so, for a hexagram, yes
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19:28:21 <hppavilion[1]> If there are pronouns for nouns, why are there not proverbs for verbs or proadjectives for adjectives or proadverbs for adverbs?
19:37:01 <nortti> there are pro-forms, which are more general version of pronouns
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19:45:38 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: just draw the inner hexagon first then add the points to the sides.
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19:47:15 <quintopia> hppavilion[1]: furthermore, after 6 vertices, there is not "a" regular n-gram. there are many different n-grams for each n.
19:47:37 <quintopia> hiyais523
19:48:13 <ais523> hi
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19:49:09 <quintopia> welcome back to idling land
19:49:18 <quintopia> made any useful or fun code lately?
19:49:45 <int-e> heh, Quickbooks is following me around: http://thedevilspanties.com/archives/10418
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19:51:34 <ais523> quintopia: not really
19:51:39 <ais523> I have an esolang idea but I haven't written any of it down
19:51:48 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote wikipedia
19:51:49 <HackEgo> 104) * Phantom_Hoover wonders where the size of the compiled Linux kernel comes from. <cpressey> To comply with the GFDL, there's a copy of Wikipedia in there. \ 888) <quintopia> is there a way to tag things on wikipedia as "wtf this makes no sense"? <elliott> quintopia: {{featured article}}
19:52:00 <nortti> ais523: is this margis enough space to contain it?
19:52:05 <nortti> *margin
19:52:33 <ais523> nortti: it should have a fairly short description in English
19:52:40 <ais523> I just need to translate it from internal-thought-language
19:54:31 <ais523> I like it because it's very simple and helps make progress towards at least two of the ideas I had
19:54:42 <ais523> I'm not sure if I should write an interp myself or leave it to someone else
19:55:21 <quintopia> you should implement it in BCT
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19:56:15 <ais523> ugh
19:56:21 -!- hahagoodidea has changed nick to D.
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19:56:28 <ais523> this is the sort of language that's much easier to compile than interpret
19:56:34 -!- colonD has changed nick to shikhin.
19:56:36 <ais523> and I'd hate to write a compiler in BCT
19:56:58 <quintopia> i wasn't being particularly serious
19:59:56 <int-e> irony transports really well on IRC
20:00:16 <quintopia> probably wasn't particularly ironic either
20:00:25 <quintopia> let's go with flippant
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20:03:03 * wob_jonas watches expectantly whether ais523 writes the idea up
20:03:28 <ais523> I'm thinking about the details atm
20:03:31 <quintopia> don't hold your breath man. give him some space.
20:04:20 <quintopia> sometimes it takes years to write up ideas
20:04:33 <wob_jonas> yeah.
20:04:35 <wob_jonas> I know.
20:04:36 <quintopia> sometimes it takes indefinitely long (e.g. Feather)
20:08:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[David Madore]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49642&oldid=45477 * B jonas * (+21)
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20:32:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[EXCON]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49643&oldid=35250 * Mychal * (+543) Added Io implementation
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21:00:24 <ais523> bleh, I need to do this right
21:00:36 <ais523> it's one of those things that once I define the language, it'll be hard to change
21:00:45 <ais523> and there are certain properties I want it to have that I'm not sure it wil have
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21:14:39 <wob_jonas> ais523: yeah, that sucks
21:15:11 <wob_jonas> there are mature languages that have ugly faults that are very hard to fix now, and would have been trivial to fix with no drawbacks when they were first designed
21:15:20 <wob_jonas> compatibility is a bitch, but we depend on it
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21:22:05 <izabera> you have a list of words and you must produce a number N in [3,5] and a list of 10 letters (which can be repeated) such that there are at least X words in your list that are at least N letters long that can be written by using only letters in your list
21:25:05 <quintopia> ais523: you can always just start over if you get things wrong. look at python 3.x
21:25:09 <wob_jonas> izabera: what
21:25:20 <izabera> i'll make an example
21:25:33 <ais523> wob_jonas: in esolangs there are other issues
21:25:41 <ais523> e.g. escaping syntax in Underload
21:25:47 <ais523> which was in the original spec but never implemetned
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21:26:44 <wob_jonas> ais523: sure, that sort of things happens even in non-esolangs
21:26:56 <pikhq> And the infamous EOF issues with Brainfuck.
21:27:08 <ais523> pikhq: I don't think those were ever actually resolved though
21:27:16 <ais523> you could argue about EOF issues in C
21:27:18 <izabera> word list is english dictionary, my number is 3, my list is A B C A D E G A I D and these words are at least 3 letters long: decade bed dice ...
21:27:38 <pikhq> Ah. Yeah, EOF in Brainfuck was not resolved, the status quo is "-1, 0, or no change; pick one"
21:27:49 <ais523> (specifially, what happens if you read EOF from a terminal and then read again; the C spec implies you should get EOF again, on Linux/UNIX you can get data though)
21:27:58 <wob_jonas> ais523: as one of the more famous examples (that is luckiliy mostly a thing of the past) is the original meaning of the export keyword in C++93 which has to do with templates and separate compilation and almost nobody implemented it
21:28:23 <wob_jonas> ais523: the C spec implies that?
21:28:30 <ais523> wob_jonas: I think so
21:28:40 <ais523> I asked Usenet about it at one point, because it was an interesting question
21:28:52 <ais523> the basic issue is that the concept of "end of file" doesn't really apply to unix/linux syscalls
21:28:59 <ais523> they have a "no data" return but it doesn't mean the same thing
21:29:01 <pikhq> ais523: Not especially the case: if you're using stdio routines, POSIX says you keep getting EOF.
21:29:28 <ais523> pikhq: I think I've seen a file spontaneously un-EOF using stdio
21:29:32 <ais523> I might be misremembering though
21:29:38 <pikhq> Because reading an EOF from the terminal via a syscall, has stdio set the EOF flag.
21:29:39 <pikhq> Well, either I'm missing something or that was broken.
21:29:54 <wob_jonas> ais523: while we're there, is it true that on some unices you could lseek a terminal and get success?
21:30:04 <ais523> it may be that the EOF flag stays set but getchar returns non-EOF
21:30:12 <ais523> wob_jonas: I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise mte
21:30:14 <ais523> *me
21:30:21 <ais523> I'd expect it to be a no-op with an incorrect return value
21:30:38 <wob_jonas> I've heard a rumour about that, and it's scary because I'd like a way to test whether a file descriptor can be seeked (so that a program can use a faster algorithm if it can be seeked, or a slower and more memory-consuming one if it can't).
21:30:58 <pikhq> ais523: Both POSIX and C say that's invalid, but it's possible for an implementation to be invalid.
21:31:02 <wob_jonas> ais523: the rumour was that it read and wrote some sort of byte counter that was also incremented when you read (or written, I dunno) bytes to the terminal
21:31:12 <wob_jonas> a completely meaningless counter that is
21:31:31 <ais523> wob_jonas: what's more interesting is not whether you can seek a terminal, but whether you can tell a terminal
21:31:34 <wob_jonas> so yes, it's effectively a no-op
21:31:47 <wob_jonas> ais523: I said lseek. that's the syscall behind both seek and tell.
21:32:04 <wob_jonas> there's no separate tell syscall, you just call lseek with 0 offset and SEEK_CUR directionality
21:32:10 <pikhq> "The behavior of lseek() on devices which are incapable of seeking is implementation-defined." LOL.
21:32:31 <ais523> wob_jonas: ah right
21:32:44 <wob_jonas> pikhq: they SORT OF need to say that because of tape drives that can somewhat seek but not arbitrarily like a hard disk or a regular file
21:33:10 <ais523> pikhq: I just tested, the problem is with fgets
21:33:26 <ais523> if it reads an EOF it sets the EOF flag to 1
21:33:36 <ais523> but otherwise acts as though the EOF wasn't there
21:33:41 <ais523> e.g. it keeps returning data if the data is present
21:33:57 <pikhq> Holy hell, that's actually in POSIX.
21:34:01 <wob_jonas> ais523: can you clear that flag with clearerr() or fseek() ?
21:34:14 <ais523> wob_jonas: clearerr() should work, I'd have thought
21:34:26 <pikhq> Correction, that's in ISO C.
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21:34:38 <ais523> also fgets appears to read one read() result at a time; I don't know if it has signal handler handling
21:34:51 <ais523> it's kind-of hard to make a signal handler interrupt the middle of an fgets
21:34:53 <ais523> unless, hmm
21:35:08 <pikhq> fgets per ISO C does not examine the end-of-file indicator, while most other functions do.
21:35:15 <ais523> you could specify unbuffered I/O, then fgets into a buffer which was partly in unmapped memory
21:35:36 <wob_jonas> ais523: would that send a signal as opposed to just an EFAULT with no signal?
21:35:37 <ais523> then you could handle the SIGSEGV via allocating the rest of the buffer
21:35:58 <ais523> I suspect that's technically undefined behaviour though
21:36:09 <ais523> wob_jonas: logically it should send a signal, shouldn't it?
21:36:11 <wob_jonas> ais523: I think in Linux no syscall raises a SIGSEGV from faulting on a user memory access synchroniously.
21:36:21 <wob_jonas> no, it should return EFAULT I think
21:36:29 <pikhq> ais523: flock() in another thread and then raise a signal in that thread.
21:36:30 <pikhq> Voila.
21:36:30 <ais523> like, the syscall would efault, but fgets should convert that into a segfault
21:36:36 <wob_jonas> what...
21:36:39 <ais523> it would segfault if it were using buffered I/O!
21:36:40 <wob_jonas> I dunno
21:37:07 <pikhq> (wouldn't interrupt the read(), granted. For that it'd need to be blocked on something.)
21:37:12 <ais523> EFAULT isn't even a legal value from fgets, AFAICT it doesn't set errno
21:37:14 <pikhq> (like a pipe)
21:37:20 <wob_jonas> ais523: yeah
21:37:25 <ais523> what is up with this function!
21:37:33 <wob_jonas> ais523: at that point it's probably implementation-defined, I've no idea what fgets would do
21:38:09 <wob_jonas> ais523: you could try to simulate an interrupted syscall by ptrace with a debugger, breaking on the syscall and sending a signal
21:38:23 <pikhq> POSIX' semantics for fgets errors are "see fgetc", FWIW.
21:38:39 <wob_jonas> pikhq: not fread?
21:39:00 <ais523> If a read error occurs, the error indicator for the stream shall be set, fgets() shall return a null pointer, and shall set errno to indicate the error.
21:39:01 <ais523> OK, it does set errno
21:39:05 <pikhq> wob_jonas: Not fread.
21:39:10 <ais523> I forgot I had the POSIX manual here as well as the Linux one
21:39:14 <ais523> until just now
21:39:25 <pikhq> http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/ Helpful advice.
21:39:44 <wob_jonas> posix manual (needs free registration once) => https://www2.opengroup.org/ogsys/catalog/t101
21:39:57 <wob_jonas> linux manual => https://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/
21:40:16 <wob_jonas> also glibc manual is relevant => https://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/
21:40:40 <wob_jonas> openbsd manual and freebsd manual resp => http://man.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi , http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi
21:40:55 <wob_jonas> if you're connected on the internet, you likely have lots of manuals
21:41:10 <wob_jonas> sure, I also have local copies of some of these for convenience
21:42:10 <ais523> the POSIX manual is in the Ubuntu repos
21:42:15 <ais523> man 3p fgets, etc.
21:42:25 <ais523> (once it's installed)
21:42:27 <wob_jonas> ais523: most of it, yes
21:50:27 <shachaf> `` quote shachaf | paste
21:50:30 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/paste/paste.4030
21:56:24 <wob_jonas> `? minkoijjikop
21:56:25 <HackEgo> minkoijjikop? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:56:34 <wob_jonas> someone add a wisdom for that
21:56:43 <wob_jonas> or maybe make an esolang of that name
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22:00:33 <wob_jonas> fungot: fehér leple foszlányait
22:06:01 <fizzie> No-got.
22:06:26 -!- fungot has joined.
22:06:33 <fizzie> fungot: See above.
22:06:33 <fungot> fizzie: would not work either on some ms-dos compilers. :) i remember.
22:09:42 <FireFly> I didn't know you were around back then, fungot
22:09:42 <fungot> FireFly: i'll look into it later tonight.)
22:10:56 <izabera> ok so in this other irc network there's a game we play
22:11:00 <izabera> it's basically scrabble
22:11:17 <izabera> bots generates 10 letters which can be repeated, and a number
22:11:38 <izabera> and you must write as many words as possible with those letters, and your words must be at least <num> letters long
22:11:56 <izabera> problem is: the current bot is awful
22:12:26 <izabera> e.g. it just produced this list N D S L Z R A U U K and you had to write words that are at least 5 letters long
22:12:43 <izabera> and exactly 0 italian words fit that criterion
22:12:58 <wob_jonas> what?
22:12:59 <wob_jonas> really?
22:13:02 <izabera> yeah
22:13:11 <wob_jonas> I mean, it has two vowels
22:13:20 <wob_jonas> and enough consonants
22:13:27 <wob_jonas> are you allowed to add accent to the letters?
22:13:28 <izabera> you can't repeat letters
22:13:39 <wob_jonas> oh
22:13:47 <wob_jonas> you said "can be repeated"
22:13:47 <izabera> e.g. "sara" has 2 a but that list only has 1
22:13:57 <izabera> yeah in that list there are two u's
22:14:08 <izabera> in that sense they can be repeated
22:14:18 <wob_jonas> so you'd need to find something that ands in an "a" and has a "u" in it?
22:14:35 <izabera> yes or maybe no a and two u's
22:14:47 -!- moonythedwarf_ has joined.
22:15:01 <izabera> so my problem is: how do i generate better lists of letters?
22:15:39 <wob_jonas> izabera: are you allowed to add accents to those letters?
22:16:00 <izabera> we use a dictionary that has many unaccented versions of accented words
22:17:03 -!- moonythedwarf_ has changed nick to polybot.
22:17:26 <wob_jonas> fungot: idekinn hideg éj sziszeg aztán
22:17:27 <fungot> wob_jonas: 4 cakeprophet: bf ( thread-id 3) ( 4 5 ( ( 1 3)...
22:18:01 <wob_jonas> cake-prophet?
22:19:05 <wob_jonas> fungot: nekem fütyöl
22:19:05 <fungot> wob_jonas: ( a regex literal would not be allowed in sisc?
22:19:34 -!- polybot has changed nick to moon.
22:19:44 <ais523> wob_jonas: CakeProphet was a regular here a while back
22:19:46 -!- moon has changed nick to moonythedwarf.
22:19:57 <wob_jonas> ais523: ah, that explains it
22:20:00 <ais523> IIRC the full username was "the prophet wizard of the crayon cake" but it doesn't fit on IRC
22:21:02 <ais523> izabera: my algorithm would be this: generate letters according to letter frequencies of the language, then check a wordlist to see how many words there are (computers can do this quickly)
22:21:05 <ais523> if it's not enough, reroll
22:21:15 <ais523> actually I already have a program for solving this problem
22:21:29 <ais523> it works like this: I have a wordlist where the words have had their letters sorted into alphabetical order
22:21:50 <ais523> then I just create a regex a?d?k?l?n?r?s?u?u?z?
22:21:57 <ais523> and regex it against the wordlist
22:22:01 <izabera> nice!
22:23:04 <ais523> there are 20 5-letter-or-longer words that fit these rules in English (using my English word list)
22:23:12 <wob_jonas> or just roll the 16 boggle master cubes and discard 6 at random
22:23:14 <ais523> the vast majority are four-letter words that have been pluralized by adding an s
22:23:25 <izabera> this is very good thanks
22:23:57 <ais523> there are two six-letter words: "kudzus" and "drunks" (both five-letter words that were pluralized by adding an s)
22:24:09 <ais523> I don't have such a wordlist for Italian but it should be easy enough to generate one
22:24:17 <izabera> sure
22:24:25 <izabera> thanks a lot that's a very nice hint
22:25:00 <wob_jonas> fungot: Máglyára, ki ellenszegül, minden velsz énekest!
22:25:00 <fungot> wob_jonas: yes it's stupid a 6 can't be applied: it's not a useful religion for developing a http server application
22:25:08 <ais523> of course you need some sort of dictionary to go back from the sorted words to the originals, but that's easy enough to write as well
22:25:26 <izabera> actually i don't need it
22:25:40 <ais523> bleh, it's so hard to get out of the habit of seeing foreign words and trying to guess what they mean from the spelling
22:25:42 <izabera> it's fine as long as it matches 20 or more words
22:25:45 <ais523> but with Hungarian there's no point
22:26:05 <ais523> as it'd only work on loanwords
22:26:07 <wob_jonas> ais523: all four of the above are quotes from Arany János poems
22:26:13 <ais523> (admittedly Hungarian does have a lot of loanwords)
22:28:12 <wob_jonas> ais523: the poems should be easy to find, and some of the poems even have translations, you can try to find some on http://www.magyarulbabelben.net/works/hu-en/Arany_J%C3%A1nos-1817 -- I don't know how good translations they are
22:28:36 -!- shikhpin has changed nick to shikhin.
22:29:02 <wob_jonas> "Szondi két apródja" has a translation by Makai Ádám, presumably that's a good one because he's famous, I've no idea about the rest
22:29:53 <wob_jonas> ais523: fewer loanwords back then in the 19th century, especially very few loanwords from English
22:30:52 <wob_jonas> also, the quotes alone aren't very meaningful without knowing the whole poem
22:34:00 <wob_jonas> fungot: do you have a twin?
22:34:00 <fungot> wob_jonas: the interpreter exposes the c library
22:40:22 <wob_jonas> fungot: Anyu, én igyekszem a haragom levetni.
22:40:58 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
22:43:29 <wob_jonas> fungot: I find your lack of uptime disturbing
22:48:31 <\oren\> Idea: a multiplayer online game where the protocol between server and client is open, and therefore anyone is welcome to produce their own game client
22:48:54 <\oren\> thus all game logics must be enforced at the server
22:51:27 <\oren\> so some of the metagame would be programming a better/more efficient client
22:52:17 <\oren\> as opposed to most games where using a better client would be considered cheating
22:57:27 <\oren\> E.g. consider a FPS where use of aimbots is not only allowed but encouraged, but the game simulates such things as recoil at the server.
22:57:58 <wob_jonas> what's with fungot?
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23:15:11 <wob_jonas> `8-ball when will I be young again?
23:15:11 <HackEgo> It is decidedly so.
23:15:16 <wob_jonas> oh no
23:15:49 <oerjan> i don't think it is good with non-yes/no questions
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23:24:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
23:25:04 <fizzie> Hm.
23:25:11 <oerjan> hm?
23:25:14 <fizzie> I don't know what's with fungot.
23:25:14 <fungot> fizzie: and i think it does
23:25:33 <fizzie> Oh, I guess it was just the reply count limit.
23:35:15 <oerjan> `? irc
23:35:16 <HackEgo> IRC is short for "Internet Relay Chat". It is named so because all the servers are constructed from relays.
23:36:09 <olsner> `? fungot
23:36:09 <fungot> olsner: not? its simplicity is not a procedure
23:36:10 <HackEgo> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
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23:48:36 <izabera> ais523: thanks to you, now i have this https://arin.ga/gqBhgB/raw
23:49:00 <ais523> neat
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23:52:27 <izabera> my dictionary has 282043 words and that thing takes .186s https://arin.ga/NKWiVq/raw
23:52:30 <izabera> it's an awk script
23:54:14 <izabera> https://arin.ga/nhRTKL/raw here it is
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