←2016-08-27 2016-08-28 2016-08-29→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:15:13 <zzo38> I have designed this Magic: the Gathering card (with a bit of suggestions to help): {-} Conspiracy ;; Creature spells you cast cost an additional {1} to cast. ;; Whenever you cast a creature spell, you gain 1 life. ;; Whenever a nontoken creature you own dies, target opponent loses 1 life.
00:17:47 <shachaf> That doesn't seem like a very good card.
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00:21:50 <zzo38> What if it is added, that it give you a token that you can tap for one mana that is spend only for noncreature spells, and only if you control a creature?
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00:38:44 <\oren\> Who knew that just 3 armored divisions from the USSR, under a relatively green commander, could turn the tide of the Spanish Civil War?
00:40:24 <\oren\> Well, I suppose it helps that the other side has no tanks at all
00:54:59 <oerjan> \oren\: i sense a bright red future
01:05:34 <oerjan> *sigh* asus smart gestures driver has changed its menu so that you _cannot_ disable three finger gestures...
01:06:22 <oerjan> and it's starting to drive me nuts, because 90% of the time a three finger gesture triggers, it's by accident.
01:06:57 <oerjan> (and i don't really need to use the gesture for the final case)
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01:27:07 <zzo38> Is it possible to configure that in a different way (such as editing the configuration file directly)?
01:37:08 <oerjan> i dunno, and i got too close to a panic attack when trying to find out.
01:44:49 <oerjan> i suspect it's in the windows registry. i have failed to search for it.
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01:45:28 <oerjan> also that there's no documentation anywhere in english.
01:45:57 <oerjan> (seriously, would it hurt Asus's bottom line that much to hire a native speaker to writer stuff)
01:46:02 <oerjan> *-r
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02:00:17 <alercah> I hate unit testing
02:00:28 <alercah> or
02:00:49 <alercah> more accurately, I hate the idea that the best way to do unit testing is to hermetically seal off your units from anything that might be interesting
02:03:15 <boily> alercahello. unit testing is painful.
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02:04:51 <boily> hppavellon[1].
02:05:04 <alercah> also the philosophy that your unit tests should fail independent
02:05:08 <alercah> *independently
02:05:20 <alercah> which is bunk because the results of one test depend on the results of another
02:05:41 <alercah> one of the things that really bugs me is that "randomized testing is bad because it is not reproducible"
02:05:48 <shachaf> oerjan: I considered buying an Asus computer but I decided against it.
02:05:54 <alercah> so instead I test 10 out of 2^32 possible values
02:06:04 <hppavilion[1]> ahoily
02:06:12 <alercah> and if it so happens that my function fails for INT_MAX - 1, the unit tests will never catch it
02:06:13 <hppavilion[1]> I joined the channel before I logged into my accout
02:06:15 <hppavilion[1]> Weird
02:08:25 <alercah> also the peculiar model of unit testing object-oriented languages that emphasizes boilerplate code
02:08:40 <alercah> since "each test should test one thing"
02:08:41 <alercah> idgaf
02:08:43 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: that's how people reveal their cloaks. since you don't have one, it doesn't matter.
02:09:11 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: it's because the login system requires contacting a different server.
02:09:50 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: No, before I logged into the account on my laptop
02:09:54 <oerjan> unless you happen to be on the same one as nickserv.
02:09:58 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: oh.
02:10:10 <hppavilion[1]> I opened my laptop, but then waited a bit before logging in to read the news
02:10:25 <hppavilion[1]> And boily had already porthelloed me when I did log in
02:11:30 <alercah> also
02:11:33 <alercah> konboilywa
02:11:38 <oerjan> shachaf: it was a spur of the moment thing where i ignored my intuition because my dad offered to buy a new laptop and we were in a shop that had asus on display.
02:12:15 <oerjan> (and he was leaving the next day, and my old laptop was on the brink - it crashed for good the next week)
02:12:42 <oerjan> (and i hate shopping)
02:12:50 <shachaf> oerjan: perhaps you can contact the manufacturer and apply a one finger gesture hth
02:12:57 <oerjan> shachaf: TEMPTING
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02:32:16 <izabera> can someone explain this? >>+>,[->+>,]<[<[<<]<[.<[<<]<]>>[+>->]<<]
02:32:37 <izabera> this part is easy >>+>,[->+>,]<
02:32:59 <izabera> the rest i dunno
02:34:43 <oerjan> ^bf >>+>,[->+>,]<[<[<<]<[.<[<<]<]>>[+>->]<<]!testing
02:34:43 <fungot> eginstt
02:34:53 <izabera> yeah it's a sort
02:35:13 <izabera> wait i think i get it
02:35:25 <izabera> when it stores a character it decrements it
02:35:56 <izabera> then finds the first point with a zero and then prints it and i'm lost
02:36:11 <oerjan> ^bf >>+>,[->+>,]<[<[<<]<[.<[<<]<]>>[+>->]<<]!testing<CTCP>
02:38:16 <izabera> what did you do?
02:38:25 <oerjan> added a ^A at the end
02:38:51 <izabera> and fungot has no timeout?
02:38:52 <fungot> izabera: the function will fnord will try and learn a few other languages that don't exist
02:39:11 <oerjan> izabera: it just doesn't print anything then.
02:39:34 <izabera> well that's a stupid bot
02:39:40 <oerjan> because the main loop gets skipped
02:39:44 <izabera> it should print <no output> or something
02:39:56 <boily> fungot: nostril.
02:39:57 <fungot> boily: chording keyboards are ones where you really feel about srfi 33
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02:40:25 <shachaf> we are all stupid bots, are we not?
02:41:40 <oerjan> why do you think you are all stupid bots, are you not?
02:42:07 <izabera> eliza :)
02:42:24 <oerjan> let's talk about you, not me
02:45:19 <alercah> <-- stupid bot
02:48:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49656&oldid=49637 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+1956)
02:49:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49657&oldid=49656 * Rjhunjhunwala * (-11)
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04:13:55 <shachaf> How does Leibniz notation work?
04:14:02 <shachaf> What does it mean? Why do the informal mafipulations that people do with it work so well?
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04:16:10 <pikhq> It works because the notion of an "infinitisimal", though not then explained or used in rigorous terms, actually can be defined rigorously. And the manipulations permitted on it function the same as people's informal manipulations do.
04:16:37 <shachaf> Which notion of "infinitesimal" are you using?
04:16:56 <shachaf> Non-standard analysis? Smooth infinitesimal analysis?
04:17:25 <pikhq> Non-standard analysis, as applied to the calculus of differentials and of integrals.
04:17:41 <shachaf> Without the notion of infinitesimal, you can still define a meaning for "dy/dx" (even if you maybe don't define "dy" and "dx" separately). What meaning would you take for it?
04:18:00 <shachaf> In non-standard analysis, "dy/dx" doesn't literally mean an infinitesimal dy divided by an infinitesimal dx. That would be too easy.
04:18:13 <shachaf> It means the standard part of a quotient of infinitesimals, at least.
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04:19:08 <shachaf> Anyway, you can ask three people what "dy/dx" actually means and get five answers.
04:19:17 <zzo38> I have considered "dy" and "dx" can be define separately but they are not infinitesimals
04:19:52 <shachaf> What do you define them as?
04:19:56 <pikhq> My naive interpretation of dy/dx without infinitesimals as a concept, is that it's an opaque symbol meaning "derivative with respect to x".
04:20:18 <shachaf> Covectors? One-forms?
04:20:28 <shachaf> pikhq: That's what I said.
04:20:37 <shachaf> In particular, y is an expression with a free variable x.
04:20:49 <shachaf> dy/dx is also an expression with a free variable x (but not the same x).
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04:21:32 <shachaf> If D : (R -> R) -> (R -> R) is the differentiation operator, then dy/dx means D(\x.y)(x)
04:21:37 <shachaf> Is that what you're thinking?
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04:22:54 <shachaf> Some people say other things. For example, that y is a function, and dy/dx is a function.
04:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> Today's xkcd is a useful piece of advice
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04:23:34 <zzo38> I do define them as something like "opaque symbols", with certain algebraic properties so that you can make calculations with them.
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04:24:09 <shachaf> That sounds good, can you say more?
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04:25:32 <shachaf> One thing that people do is say: y^2 = x^2; d/dx both sides, so d(y^2)/dx = d(x^2)/dx, so 2y dy/dx = 2x, so dy/dx = x/y
04:25:44 <shachaf> Now y isn't an expression in x at all.
04:25:45 <zzo38> For example d(x^2)=2xdx and so on. Therefore if y=x^2 then dy/dx=2x
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04:26:21 <oerjan> *poof*
04:26:31 <shachaf> oerjan: you can't poof
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04:27:11 <zzo38> However, the notation d^2y/dx^2 for the second derivative is wrong and it does not actually work. By using the rule for derivative of divisions, you can figure out the correct way (I have done so, and have found another answer in a book, and I found it to be equivalent).
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04:27:57 <shachaf> What's the correct way?
04:28:46 <zzo38> I figured it out on some paper somewhere but now I forget.
04:28:54 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> Today's xkcd is a useful piece of advice <-- i think your timing estimate is a _little_ bit nonlinear.
04:29:31 <shachaf> zzo38: What is d(dx)?
04:29:31 <zzo38> If you want, you can try to figure it out by yourself.
04:29:35 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: "today's xkcd" just means "the thing that pops up when you go to xkcd.com"
04:30:03 <zzo38> shachaf: It is d(dx). Without more information you cannot convert it as far as I know.
04:30:03 <hppavilion[1]> And if one is reading the logs, it means whichever one is most recent at the time when you're reading
04:30:14 <pikhq> Clearly it's the function d applied to the variable dx.
04:30:18 <pikhq> </smartass>
04:30:31 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: you can't poof <-- didn't you see how i made all those people disappear hth
04:31:12 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i recommend "current" hth
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04:32:08 <shachaf> zzo38: In what context is "dx" defined?
04:32:17 <shachaf> Does it only make sense in the presence of a free variable x?
04:33:47 <zzo38> Well, "x" has to mean something too, and then it can be calculation by the relation and so on.
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04:35:13 <zzo38> For example if you have variables y and x with y=x^2 and so on, then y and x are the variables here, so that is what it means, and since you have this equation you can make up more equations from it like any other mathematics is.
04:35:50 <shachaf> What is the type of d, or of dx?
04:35:57 <shachaf> What manipulations are permitted on it?
04:36:40 <zzo38> I think most common stuff is OK such as addition, multiplication, division, etc
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05:00:38 <shachaf> zzo38: Is there a definition of d I can read anywhere?
05:00:43 <shachaf> Is it some sort of algebraic structure?
05:01:11 <shachaf> Can you make a version that works with functions, instead of expressions?
05:02:27 <shachaf> zzo38: One thing you can say is: y and x are really implicitly expressions in, say, t.
05:02:33 <shachaf> And then dx really means dx/dt
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05:25:13 <zzo38> I don't think that is how it works (unless dt=1)
05:26:14 <shachaf> Why not?
05:26:33 <shachaf> Yes, of course if you could refer to t directly in this context, then dt would be 1.
05:33:45 <izabera> how many requests per second could a good webserver serve in 1990?
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05:36:05 <shachaf> Were there any web servers in 1990?
05:36:21 <izabera> ok, 1992?
05:36:59 <izabera> because i wrote a stupid wrapper that forks off to a shell script and that shell script replies "hello from a server that runs on android" in http
05:37:22 <izabera> and it's running on my tablet and it handles 100 requests in 1.7s
05:37:26 <izabera> is that good for 1992?
05:39:59 <izabera> turns out forking is a little inefficient
05:40:17 <izabera> *shocking*
05:40:17 <shachaf> Forking is a strategy that was used for a long time, with CGI scripts.
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05:40:24 <izabera> ok
05:41:56 <shachaf> Seems that the first web server was developed on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT_Computer
05:59:40 <pikhq> Forking is a pretty inefficient way of spawning processes.
05:59:57 <pikhq> That said, the thing that's slow there isn't actually the fork call.
06:00:30 <pikhq> I'm pretty sure that your shell is paying some pretty big startup costs.
06:02:06 <shachaf> If you want to use the shell, you gotta shell out the startup costs.
06:02:23 <pikhq> Yeah, but bash's aren't exactly worth it.
06:02:53 <pikhq> No, wait, Android. That'll be toolbox sh, probably.
06:03:03 <pikhq> But it's using Bionic, which is a scow libc.
06:03:20 <pikhq> Friendly advice, never write a libc in C++.
06:03:35 <alercah> friendly advice, never write a libc
06:03:50 <alercah> both the C and C++ standard libraries are scow
06:04:01 * pikhq really wishes musl existed at the time that Android was getting started
06:04:12 <shachaf> a heffalump or musl / is very confusel
06:04:17 <shachaf> oerjan: hth
06:05:11 <alercah> I once had to work with C++ stdlib locale code
06:06:06 <pikhq> Which was no doubt way too complex because it was designed to account for not-UTF-8 charsets.
06:06:15 <pikhq> Perhaps even *shudder* stateful charsets.
06:08:46 <izabera> it's mksh
06:09:35 <alercah> that's not part of why
06:09:37 <alercah> err
06:09:40 <alercah> not all of why
06:10:02 <alercah> it's too complex because it was designed to be extensible in a terrible way
06:10:15 <izabera> what?
06:10:17 <izabera> mksh?
06:10:21 <alercah> no, C++ locales
06:10:30 <alercah> and the end result was something totally useless for basically everything
06:10:46 <pikhq> Yeah, the interface itself is too complex and overly general.
06:10:59 <alercah> honestly C++ should deprecate locales & iostreams and replace them with something better
06:11:06 <pikhq> And most implementations then decide to be that general.
06:11:16 <alercah> well they follow the standard
06:11:34 <pikhq> Meanwhile, at least the C locale standard *permits* simple implementations.
06:11:44 <alercah> (one aspect of the mess in C++ iirc also comes from attempts to be compatible with C locales)
06:11:56 <alercah> C has its own locale fun
06:12:02 <alercah> like the lack of thread-local locale functions
06:12:28 <pikhq> ... In C but not POSIX, and non-POSIX C implementations are: Microsoft Visual C.
06:13:37 <shachaf> I heard Windows has a Linux system call emulation layer now.
06:13:42 <shachaf> Did you try it?
06:14:03 <pikhq> And MSVC is basically as much of a joke implementation as IE6's implementation of HTML.
06:14:06 <pikhq> No, I haven't.
06:14:36 <alercah> pikhq: when did POSIX add those?
06:14:52 <alercah> oh wait, I'm confusing myself
06:14:59 <alercah> yes, POSIX has thread-local ones
06:15:13 <pikhq> Sadly, uselocale was added in POSIX-2008.
06:15:33 <pikhq> Though the various functions that take locale_t are earlier.
06:15:39 <alercah> right, ok
06:16:06 <alercah> my notes say posix is missing some
06:16:36 <pikhq> It's possible the notes are just old. POSIX gets new versions every now and then.
06:16:52 <pikhq> Though, some of the implementations (*cough*OS X*cough*) don't care.
06:16:53 <alercah> yes
06:17:07 <alercah> my notes are POSIX.1-2008
06:17:16 <pikhq> Mmkay, that's the latest modulo errata.
06:18:16 <alercah> generally it lacks local_t versions of printing functions
06:18:20 <pikhq> But, with uselocale you *may* correctly implement any locale_t-taking function you feel like.
06:18:25 <alercah> and conversions
06:18:41 <alercah> *locale_t
06:19:05 <pikhq> Though doing it perfectly correctly for a lot of 'em (the ones that are cancellation points) is going to be a bit tricky. (not impossible, just tricky)
06:20:01 <pikhq> Okay, and the ones that are async signal safe, if any of 'em are.
06:20:29 <pikhq> (can't be bothered to look if any of 'em are async signal safe)
06:20:32 <alercah> no, I don't think you can
06:20:46 <alercah> assuming you don't know the encoding of wchar_t* in an arbitrary locale
06:21:01 <alercah> (wchar_t is stupid too but that's another story)
06:22:23 <zzo38> My own programs just use C locale so we don't need the others
06:24:22 <pikhq> I don't see how that's relevant, but in practice it's of little relevance: good implementations should have __STDC_ISO_10646__, and as such wchar_t values are Unicode codepoints in all locales.
06:25:07 <pikhq> (there are, once again, two kinds of implementations worth caring about: implementations with that, and MSVC)
06:27:50 <zzo38> Best way is ignore that and use C locale; ISO 10646 is no good and the other locales are also no good.
06:28:52 <alercah> windows is screwed there
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06:29:29 <alercah> pikhq: you can't implement printfw_l without knowing the encoding
06:29:42 <alercah> or other various conversion functions
06:31:48 <zzo38> What does printfw_l means anyways?
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08:09:34 <hppavilion[1]> Oh my god, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfTropes is paradise for me
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10:43:58 <izabera> https://arin.ga/qJJMNf/raw <- this is serving this ->
11:28:53 <izabera> i was looking for source code the 2011 movie with jake gyllenhaal
11:29:04 <izabera> and found this https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3497574/Windows_2000_source_code and this https://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4149808/Windows_NT4_source_code
11:29:14 <izabera> they look legit
11:30:41 <int-e> and illegal
11:31:26 <izabera> oh no
11:34:51 <\oren\> Ok, fuck you hitler. I'm retreating, you can take poland, have fun. But my newest tanks will meet you at the eastern border when you get there
11:35:15 <\oren\> goddamn it why are my tanks not as good as his
11:36:04 <int-e> because Hitler? Didn't you want to outtech him?
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11:38:32 <\oren\> int-e: yeah, but I focused my efforts on planes, but poland won't let me rebase my bombers
11:39:47 <\oren\> int-e: I have better tanks but they're only being manufactured now, my old tank divisions are stuck with old tanks
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11:56:41 <izabera> two of my benchmarks trigger O(n^2) behaviour for microsoft's qsort
12:03:36 <int-e> is that dag adversary strong enough to ensure that Theta(n log(n)) comparisons are required for any comparison based sorting algorithm?
12:06:07 <int-e> Dang I'm mixing up the big O's, I mean Omega.
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13:26:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49658&oldid=49657 * Rjhunjhunwala * (-3410)
13:27:15 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49659&oldid=49658 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+5)
13:28:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49660&oldid=49659 * Rjhunjhunwala * (-1)
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14:20:26 <boily> `wisdom
14:20:28 <HackEgo> mark//A mark of one's destiny singled out alone, fulfilled.
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14:35:39 <\oren\> Ok, seriously, this time I'm playing as Iran. How did I end up at war with Finland!?
14:36:33 <FireFly> Whatcha playing?
14:36:58 <FireFly> Some Paradox game or something?
14:37:05 <Jafet> is this like europa universalis where iran ends up next to finland?
14:37:19 <int-e> \oren\: The enemy of your enemy? Alliances are tricky.
14:38:18 <int-e> To my mind it's not more ridiculous as Japan becoming an ally of Germany.
14:38:29 <int-e> s/as/than/
14:38:42 <\oren\> I'm a communist Iran, so I guess because USSR declared war on finland?
14:39:09 <int-e> Makes sense.
14:39:28 <\oren\> Luckily I already annexed iraq
14:39:55 <int-e> And there's no Israel.
14:40:08 <\oren\> Right, not at this point in history.
14:40:18 <int-e> That should simplify matters quite a bit... well... not really.
14:40:39 <\oren\> I am, however, researching nukes
14:40:56 <\oren\> What if iran was cummunist, and got nukes by 1944?
14:41:06 <\oren\> Well, let's find out
14:45:46 <int-e> Where's Saudi Arabia in all this?
14:46:17 <\oren\> Hey, I wonder if I can grab some of Saudi's territory if I threaten to nuke Riyadh?
14:47:07 <\oren\> right now they don't seem to be doing much, they don't even seem to have much forces at their border with me
14:48:57 <\oren\> Turkey on the other hand has nine infrantry divisions looking over their border asking for me to send them somthing to shoot at
14:50:32 <\oren\> japan just joined the axis
14:54:35 <alercah> \oren\: indeed, what are you playing?
14:54:47 <\oren\> alercah: Hearts of Iron 4
14:55:19 <\oren\> Well, it looks like Syria is controlled by vichy france, so when the real warr breks out,I'll grab that
14:55:28 <int-e> @metar LOWI
14:55:28 <lambdabot> LOWI 281320Z VRB02KT 9999 FEW070 FEW070TCU 31/16 Q1017 NOSIG
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15:10:10 <\oren\> Researching rocketry
15:10:51 <\oren\> (With a little help from my dear russian friends)
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16:01:28 <\oren\> Wait, what's going on here?! Why isn't Germany breaking the ribbentrop pact?
16:01:33 <\oren\> I
16:01:35 <\oren\> I
16:01:42 <\oren\> i'ts almost 1942
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16:17:14 <wob_jonas> \oren\: turns out that was you breaking the pact all along, when you traveled back in time
16:22:13 <\oren\> screw it then I'm invading the Saudis
16:30:13 <\oren\> yah it looks like somehow I ended up in a world where stalin and hilter get along fine
16:36:09 <\oren\> Workers of Saudi Arabia, your salvation from your despot is nigh
16:37:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49661&oldid=49660 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+22)
16:38:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49662&oldid=49661 * Rjhunjhunwala * (-5)
16:39:08 <\oren\> The british raj has capitulated to Japan
16:39:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49663&oldid=49662 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+22)
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16:41:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49664&oldid=49663 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+44)
16:41:14 <\oren\> so long story short I'm playing as Iran, and now I have a land border with Japan
16:41:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49665&oldid=49664 * Rjhunjhunwala * (-2)
16:43:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49666&oldid=49665 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+1)
16:45:45 <\oren\> Holy crap it looks like the USSR is about to break the pact
16:46:42 <wob_jonas> \oren\: wait, which game is this?
16:46:49 <wob_jonas> is it still Europa Universalis?
16:46:55 <wob_jonas> or that newer game?
16:52:39 <\oren\> wob_jonas: it's not.
16:52:50 <\oren\> It's Hearts of Iron 4
16:53:05 <wob_jonas> thanks
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17:54:59 <\oren\> Ok, somehow, in 1943, finally the allies and comintern united against the axis
17:55:57 <\oren\> And now there are tons of american trops landing in iranian-contrlled syria in onrder to invade egypt
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19:15:26 <zzo38> How much do you think should be this effect of Magic: the Gathering card? "Fateseal 4, and then target opponent draws a card."
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20:41:39 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49667&oldid=49666 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+261)
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21:13:07 <hppavilion[1]> My god mantis shrimps are cool
21:13:40 <hppavilion[1]> They have 12 color-sensing cells, plus 4 other non-color sensors (e.g. polarization) in their eyes
21:13:52 <hppavilion[1]> So they can see things that are transparent, and yet still see what's behind them
21:16:05 <hppavilion[1]> My god, if transhumanism can get me some of the stuff that other animals have, I'm in
21:23:11 <hppavilion[1]> (and probably some cephalopod eyes while I'm at it)
21:34:33 <hppavilion[1]> Proprioception is weird
21:34:49 <hppavilion[1]> Because of its connection to touch
21:35:17 <hppavilion[1]> When you feel pain on your arm, you feel the pain coming from where the injured part of your arm /is/, rather than just from the abstract location of "your arm", which could be anywhere
21:48:07 <shachaf> FireFly: why are you in #-blah and not in #-offtopic
21:48:09 <shachaf> v. confusing hth
21:48:31 <FireFly> why should I be in -offtopic
21:49:05 <shachaf> why should you be in -blah
21:49:41 <FireFly> I don't know, I was in -blah before
21:49:45 <FireFly> was there drama at some point?
21:50:41 <shachaf> Probably.
21:50:54 <shachaf> One of them requires TLS.
21:51:37 <FireFly> Ah
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21:56:07 <int-e> > fix ((0:) . scanl (+) 1)
21:56:11 <lambdabot> [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946,...
21:56:22 <int-e> how's lambdabot doing in the timeout department these days?
21:56:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49668&oldid=49667 * Rjhunjhunwala * (-61)
22:07:55 <int-e> Oh Tromp gave a talk at the US Go Congress (Computer Go session).
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22:08:40 <int-e> @metar lowi
22:08:41 <lambdabot> LOWI 282050Z VRB08KT 9999 SCT050TCU BKN120 22/13 Q1021 NOSIG
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22:33:31 <hppavilion[1]> Making people pay to learn Linux is just wrong
22:34:15 <zzo38> You are not required to pay to learn Linux; you only have to pay if those are the classes you are entering. Otherwise you can learn in different way you don't have to pay.
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22:38:16 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yeah, but it's still kind of weird
22:38:33 <hppavilion[1]> If you're paying to learn linux, you probably aren't really in on the spirit of the thing
22:38:44 <hppavilion[1]> Question: After the assassination of Lincoln, what happened to the play?
22:41:08 <myname> hppavilion[1]: i don't see how this is weirder than paying to learn windows
22:41:23 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Because Linux is Linux and it's all 'bout dat foss
22:41:32 <myname> you don't learn about linux by reading the source code, usually
22:41:37 <zzo38> I think it is OK for them to charge the money if they want to, such as if they are selling a book or they have a classroom.
22:41:41 <myname> so, no difference there
22:41:43 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Yeah, but it's still kind of strange
22:41:49 <myname> not at all
22:41:56 <zzo38> You are not required to pay them if you can learn in other ways.
22:42:02 <myname> people sold CDs with openoffice and firefox on them on ebay
22:42:07 <myname> that's what i call strange
22:42:12 <hppavilion[1]> Like, at the very least, it would be weird to use theirs because there is almost certainly a free one available
22:42:19 <hppavilion[1]> myname: That's strange
22:42:34 <zzo38> Yes, I do think that is strange. Selling such CDs at a physical store does make some more sense though
22:43:00 <myname> i don't think so, because of firefox
22:43:18 <myname> who the hell would need a brlwser if he doesnjt have access to the internet
22:43:32 <zzo38> To view local HTML documents?
22:43:32 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I mean, you could argue it's for people who don't have a browser on their computer yet and need to install it by disk
22:43:55 <hppavilion[1]> But you're on ebay
22:44:01 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, you could be using the app on your phone
22:44:09 <hppavilion[1]> But really
22:44:56 <zzo38> Even if you do have internet on your computer but not the web browser software, if you want to download one, you could still use other software such as wget or ftp (but that won't work if you don't have that software either).
22:47:50 <zzo38> So, a disk still helps.
22:48:03 <zzo38> (Of course on Ebay it won't help so much, I suppose)
22:48:32 <hppavilion[1]> Either I'm an idiot or this is very subtle
22:49:28 <hppavilion[1]> In Hallelujah (the one that everybody covers), the line "it goes like this, the fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, and the major lift" is played exactly like that (in C Major, at least)
22:50:08 <myname> hppavilion[1]: but tbh, maybe microsoft is not a good comparison. how about suse selling support for linux?
22:50:34 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Also weird.
22:51:12 <hppavilion[1]> Either you are all-in gung-ho on Linux and Free Software, or you don't use Linux
22:51:14 <myname> hownso, they sell a service that people demand
22:51:15 <hppavilion[1]> From what I've seen
22:51:25 <myname> absolutely not
22:51:28 <hppavilion[1]> myname: The people demanding it shouldn't be using linux
22:51:32 <myname> i don't really care about foss
22:51:53 <myname> i use linux because anything else just plain sucks for coding
22:52:14 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: I think those thing is not a valid excuse
22:54:41 <myname> "you should not use linux if you want a reliable server system" doesn't make sense
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22:56:59 <zzo38> Possibly BSD is better for a reliable server system, but I don't know. Also, some Linux distributions may be better to make reliable server system than others are. But this Linux does work much better than Windows, at least.
23:21:29 <hppavilion[1]> Eh
23:21:46 <hppavilion[1]> I just keep getting emails from Pastebin with deals on paying to learn Linux
23:21:52 <hppavilion[1]> And it felt like there was an irony there
23:21:56 <hppavilion[1]> I must've been wrong
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23:34:04 <boily> @metar CYUL
23:34:04 <lambdabot> CYUL 282200Z 20014KT 15SM FEW035TCU FEW090 BKN150 BKN240 27/21 A2998 RMK TCU1AC2AC3CI2 TCU TR ACC ASOCTD SLP155 DENSITY ALT 1300FT
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23:59:22 <boily> Labvakarjan.
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