←2016-08-28 2016-08-29 2016-08-30→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:01:12 <oerjan> nofrily.
00:02:23 <boily> nofrily?
00:02:48 <oerjan> (this is a repetition from previous time when you DIDN'T NOTICE hth)
00:02:57 <hppavilion[1]> 1015241
00:03:03 <boily> <_<... >_>'...
00:03:07 <boily> hppavellon[1].
00:03:14 <hppavilion[1]> ahoily
00:03:28 <oerjan> darn i shouldn't have cheated so fast, i probably could have guessed it was baltic with some thought.
00:03:51 <boily> I have absolutely no fungotting idea where nofrily could be coming where from.
00:03:59 <oerjan> EXCELLENT
00:04:07 <boily> (T)
00:04:24 <hppavilion[1]> I'm godelling slang
00:04:39 <boily> `? godelling
00:04:40 <HackEgo> godelling? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:04:41 <hppavilion[1]> 1015241 is 69 and 420, in no particular order
00:04:58 <hppavilion[1]> (being the product of the 69th and 420th primes, though I may be doing something wrong as of yet)
00:05:30 <boily> oerjan: maybe some random language spoken in Siberia?
00:05:31 <hppavilion[1]> No, I think it works
00:05:40 <hppavilion[1]> 69th and 420th, with index at 0
00:05:50 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:05:55 <oerjan> boily: wrong continent hth
00:06:11 <oerjan> also, it's transliterated, i guess
00:06:14 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
00:06:58 <hppavilion[1]> If you wish to specifically refer to 69 followed by 420, you use 2953336069, and for 420 followed by 69 you use 354319109
00:07:25 <hppavilion[1]> (are there codes for other drugs yet?)
00:07:42 <boily> hppavilion[1]: those are big numbers. you should do an MTF then RLE to compress them.
00:07:56 <boily> oerjan: Burmese?
00:08:04 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Never heard of MTF, or at least I can't think of it
00:08:09 <hppavilion[1]> What is it?
00:08:13 <oerjan> boily: nope
00:08:34 <oerjan> (that's still the same continent afaiac hth
00:08:36 <oerjan> )
00:09:08 <boily> ...
00:09:35 -!- ocharles has joined.
00:10:24 <boily> the "-fr-" bit is throwing me for a loop...
00:10:58 <boily> Maldivian?
00:12:59 <hppavilion[1]> Damn, are there any numbers for drugs other than pot?
00:13:03 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, I already asked
00:13:04 -!- dingbat has joined.
00:13:47 <boily> hppavilion[1]: there is the 2C family, but it's alphanumeric: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2C_(psychedelics)
00:14:15 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I'll just treat it as ASCII in that case
00:15:56 <oerjan> boily: on checking, it seems to be a dead language. it's the last descendant of one you might consider classical.
00:16:57 <oerjan> not maldivian, anyway
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00:17:03 <boily> Pali?
00:17:41 <oerjan> ...you're still in asia despite my best efforts to tell you that's wrong :P
00:17:51 <boily> oops >_>'
00:20:08 <boily> Cretan? Minoan?
00:20:16 <oerjan> nope, nope
00:20:56 <oerjan> (do we know any words from those? i don't know.)
00:21:37 <oerjan> next hint: although dead, it's still used by some
00:21:55 <boily> Old Church Slavonic?
00:22:03 <boily> Aramaic?
00:22:03 <oerjan> (as i implied, i didn't actually know it was dead until right now)
00:22:08 <oerjan> no, no
00:22:22 <boily> I'm trying to remember "classical" languages.
00:22:43 <oerjan> well "classical". it depends on your definition i guess.
00:23:17 <boily> I liberally classicaly classify languages usually...
00:23:55 <boily> Manx? Cornish?
00:24:21 <oerjan> no, no. more classical than that, i think.
00:25:19 <oerjan> next hint: you can blame the muslims for it dying.
00:25:23 <pikhq> Latin and lesser Latin?
00:25:31 <oerjan> pikhq: nope
00:25:54 <boily> pikhelloq.
00:26:09 <pikhq> Salboiliton
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00:26:37 <boily> oh fungot. two riddhelloes at the same time.
00:26:57 <oerjan> i think pikhq's one isn't too hard.
00:27:17 <boily> oerjan: Coptic?
00:27:22 <oerjan> *DING*
00:27:40 <boily> that was a good one.
00:28:13 <boily> pikhq: Portuguese?
00:28:41 * oerjan guessed pikhq's correctly.
00:28:50 <pikhq> I was doing weirdo Esperanto, personally.
00:29:44 <pikhq> oerjan: Coptic is only mostly dead -- it's still used liturgically.
00:29:46 <boily> I forgot most of Esperanto's suffixes. are -n adverbs?
00:30:48 <pikhq> -n is the accusative suffix.
00:31:36 <pikhq> And apparently the accusative is used in excalamtions, such as "Saluton".
00:31:46 * oerjan learns that chebyshev's first name, pafnuty, is originally coptic.
00:32:43 <oerjan> pikhq: i'm pretty sure "dead" does not usually exclude that for languages.
00:33:21 <pikhq> Yeah... Well, it depends.
00:33:35 <pikhq> Coptic is as "dead" as Latin is, and some might call Latin a dead language.
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00:34:59 * oerjan also learns that this is one of the cases where -ev is pronounced -of.
00:35:37 <boily> Latin is post-re-de-undead.
00:37:16 <oerjan> boily: btw iirc aramaic isn't quite dead, although it's not doing well in the current war zone down there.
00:37:36 <shachaf> they come in ones and twosles, but if they so choozles, before your eyes you'll see hem multiply
00:38:23 <shachaf> them
00:38:25 <oerjan> i think shachaf thinks he's found my secret weakness or something.
00:38:55 <oerjan> either that, or he's got it on his brain himself.
00:39:02 <shachaf> mostly the latter
00:39:14 * boily is utterly confused by the sudden turn in conversation
00:39:15 <shachaf> a bit of the former maybe, but one can only expect diminishing returns there
00:39:45 <pikhq> Yeah, Aramaic is classed as endangered, but not extinct.
00:40:37 <oerjan> wait, the talmud is mostly in aramaic?
00:41:02 <oerjan> boily: itym confusel hth
00:41:56 <oerjan> boily: unconfusel hth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLnADKgurvc
00:43:38 <pikhq> oerjan: Yes. It's worth remembering that the Talmud is a large body of writing from various rabbis written post-70CE.
00:46:23 <oerjan> shachaf: i think i sniped myself with that link hth
00:47:17 <shachaf> I like the internal rhyme in "because they guzzle up the things you prize"
00:47:21 <shachaf> Well, semi-rhyme.
00:47:35 <shachaf> Does that sort of thing have a name? Are there other instances of it?
00:47:49 <boily> oerjan: I am... partially unconfuselled?
00:48:39 <oerjan> shachaf: half rhymes are a thing.
00:48:55 <shachaf> I like thr feel of it.
00:49:06 <shachaf> the
00:49:48 <pikhq> shachaf: That would probably be alliteration, not rhyme.
00:50:38 <shachaf> "because" and "guz" seem to rhyme.
00:50:45 <pikhq> Ah, that. Yes.
00:50:50 <pikhq> That's a semi-rhyme.
00:51:11 <pikhq> (that's the actual term for it)
00:51:18 <shachaf> Alliteration is scow.
00:51:25 <shachaf> Well, it's fine.
00:51:28 <shachaf> But people make too much of it.
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01:20:38 <shachaf> `? oerjan
01:20:39 <HackEgo> Your mysterious pronounced zombie oeverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:22:39 <shachaf> `slwd oerjan//s/Crocker/&, and his secret weakness is heffalumps and woozles./
01:22:41 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious pronounced zombie oeverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker, and his secret weakness is heffalumps and woozles
01:22:52 <shachaf> oops
01:22:54 <shachaf> `? oerjan
01:22:55 <HackEgo> Your mysterious pronounced zombie oeverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker, and his secret weakness is heffalumps and woozles.. He sometimes
01:23:00 <shachaf> double oops
01:23:02 <shachaf> `revert
01:23:07 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:25:44 <boily> `relcome Robdgreat
01:25:45 <HackEgo> Robdgreat: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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01:26:14 <Robdgreat> allo
01:26:22 <oerjan> Robdgreat: long time no see
01:26:25 <boily> `` sed -i 's/oeverlord/œverlord/' wisdom/oerjan
01:26:27 <HackEgo> No output.
01:26:29 <shachaf> boily: please fix up the oerjan wisdom entry twh
01:26:39 <boily> shachaf: what were you aiming for?
01:26:41 <shachaf> `icode œ
01:26:42 <HackEgo> ​[U+0153 LATIN SMALL LIGATURE OE]
01:26:51 <Robdgreat> oerjan: indeed. How's everything?
01:27:02 <oerjan> spammy
01:27:13 <boily> Robdgreat: allo. French?
01:27:52 <Robdgreat> no no
01:27:56 <Robdgreat> murcan :)
01:28:07 <boily> `` sed -i 's/\.\././' wisdom/oerjan
01:28:09 <HackEgo> No output.
01:28:26 <boily> oerjan: what do you "He sometimes"?
01:28:52 <oerjan> boily: um you seem to be looking at the pre-reverted version
01:28:55 <oerjan> `? oerjan
01:28:55 <HackEgo> Your mysterious pronounced zombie œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:29:37 <boily> all is fine now then.
01:30:02 <oerjan> i think shachaf perceived some crampiness.
01:30:25 <shachaf> i think oerjan perceived some crankiness
01:34:03 <boily> `? boily
01:34:03 <HackEgo> ​"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist.
01:34:19 <boily> still shorter :P
01:37:10 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan/s/pronounced zombie/reanimate/
01:37:10 <HackEgo> usage: sled file//script
01:37:16 <oerjan> `slwd oerjan//s/pronounced zombie/reanimate/
01:37:18 <HackEgo> wisdom/oerjan//Your mysterious reanimate œverlord kommisjonær immoritus oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a Precambrian Norwegian who mildly dislikes Roald Dahl with a pasjon. Lately when he tries to remember a word, "amortized" pops up. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He sometimes puns without noticing it.
01:37:47 <oerjan> word merging through puns
01:40:24 <shachaf> `? Phantom__Hoover
01:40:24 <HackEgo> Phantom__Hoover can't decide what an appropriate number of underscores is.
01:40:26 <shachaf> `? Phantom_Hoover
01:40:26 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.
01:45:42 <boily> `? hat
01:45:43 <HackEgo> hatee-hatee-hatee-hooo
01:53:36 <Robdgreat> `? Robdgreat
01:53:37 <HackEgo> Robdgreat ? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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01:57:59 <Phantom__Hoover> `? fungot
01:58:00 <HackEgo> fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason.
02:00:49 <Robdgreat> is this all that happens in here anymore?
02:01:42 <oerjan> nah, sometimes people discuss Magic the Gathering
02:02:00 <Robdgreat> I see
02:02:20 * oerjan slightly ironic
02:02:48 <Robdgreat> only slightly
02:07:23 <oerjan> i think the more energetic newbies aren't in at the moment.
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02:13:51 <pikhq> On occasion esolangs also get talked about.
02:14:06 <pikhq> While we're often off topic, we all *are* genuinely interested in them.
02:14:35 <pikhq> Also, this will probably please you: fungot is written in Befunge.
02:14:53 * pikhq mutters, fungot is dead
02:15:04 <oerjan> eek
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02:26:21 <hppavilion[1]> "Douchey Douches Douche Douchily" -- Ernest Hemingway, July 3, 1961
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02:35:41 <Phantom__Hoover> hppavilion[1], man you do say some shit sometimes
02:35:54 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom__Hoover: I do
02:36:10 <Phantom__Hoover> keep it up though, if it wasn't for you nobody would ever talk about esolangs
02:44:41 <oerjan> . o O ( i didn't know Ernest Hemingway made esolangs )
02:45:04 <Robdgreat> learn something new every day
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03:08:02 <\oren\> HA! The Imperial Japanese invaded my Iranian Communist Authority through India, but I encircled them and wiped out 50 divisions at once
03:08:30 <shachaf> and all that in canada?
03:09:04 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49669&oldid=49668 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+173)
03:09:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49670&oldid=49669 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+17)
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03:13:29 <\oren\> Hey, the british are here, to retake the Raj through Kuwait
03:13:53 <\oren\> pip pip comrades
03:16:34 <\oren\> Oh, look! I now own Jordan, Syria, and Israel
03:16:52 -!- Caesura has quit (Quit: Leaving).
03:24:38 <\oren\> Advancing into the Sinai
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03:58:36 <hppavilion[1]> The concept of choosing one's sexual orientation is mathematically absurd
03:58:51 <zzo38> ?
03:59:13 <hppavilion[1]> Simple game theory tells us that, assuming your choice of orientation does not affect anyone else's, the optimal strategy is /clearly/ to choose bisexuality
04:00:20 <zzo38> Well, I want to choose asexuality.
04:00:27 <pikhq> Except that people react poorly to it, and as such one should be heterosexual.
04:00:31 <hppavilion[1]> And even if it does affect others' choices, unless it specifically affects your contemporaries to choose straight or asexual, you still benefit
04:00:43 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: That would be nice too
04:01:09 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: But no one can tell your orientation unless they are informed- sex as a game has imperfect information
04:02:17 <pikhq> *If* you would not be at risk of significant discrimination for being not-heterosexual, that would be the case.
04:02:43 <hppavilion[1]> And since the best move for /everyone/ is to choose bisexuality (as, assuming everyone plays optimally, it doubles your dating pool, and under no circumstances does your dating pool decrease), there would be no reason to discriminate against bisexuals because most other people are bisexual too
04:03:03 <pikhq> If people as a whole were game theoretically optimal, yes.
04:03:55 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Yes, and people tend to be fairly close to optimal for obvious choices such as this
04:04:11 <pikhq> And yet, it's not the case.
04:04:26 <pikhq> Nor would it make any sense for it to be the case from an evolutionary standpoint.
04:04:34 <hppavilion[1]> "do you want $10 or $20, both given to you right now with no differences other than amount?"
04:04:35 <pikhq> (mind, that is not a standpoint many people take!)
04:04:37 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Well, yes, there's that
04:05:07 <hppavilion[1]> s/\$/¤/
04:06:03 <pikhq> I think some amount of the *idea* that one chooses one's sexual orientation comes from certain individuals who are homosexual or bisexual and feel that it's wrong, and then force themselves into heterosexual acts and then loudly proclaim that they chose to be straight.
04:06:39 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
04:06:45 <hppavilion[1]> I've never heard that though
04:06:49 <pikhq> But, regardless. I'm quite certain it's the case hardly anyone had a time they *decided* to be heterosexual, jusst a time they realized it.
04:07:00 <hppavilion[1]> But if I could choose, I definitely 100% would've chosen to be bi
04:07:24 <pikhq> You've never heard people say they chose to be heterosexual?
04:07:33 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: I honestly have never heard that
04:07:33 <pikhq> You do not listen to many religious fundamentalists then.
04:07:38 <pikhq> This is probably for the best.
04:08:03 <hppavilion[1]> (and, keep in mind, gays probably have better sex than straight people- sex is never a game with perfect information, but the information is a /lot/ better when you've both had a penis (or vagina) for your entire life)
04:08:36 <pikhq> *cough* there exist trans people *cough*
04:08:38 <pikhq> :P
04:09:08 <zzo38> I think there is still decision what you want though, such as only opposite or don't sex (therefore, I want don't sex).
04:09:18 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: For the purposes of analysis, we assume that trans people are the gender they identify as- trans men are just men, trans women are just women
04:09:31 <zzo38> (Or something more strange than sexual orientation, in some cases, possibly???)
04:09:48 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: A reasonable analysis. This does, however, leave some men with vaginas and some women with phallusses.
04:10:01 <pikhq> (though, yes, they are definitely in the minority)
04:10:35 <pikhq> zzo38: To some extent, yes, conscious choices can impact your desires and behaviors.
04:10:42 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yes, asexual is nice too because it decreases distractions and prevents sexual frustration (I assume; I've always just assumed asexuals don't have any form of frustration from never having sex, that they just don't feel any inclination to)
04:11:01 <pikhq> As it turns out, human brains are complex and this includes human brains' sexual behavior.
04:11:31 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: I suppose that there are trans women who have not undergone surgery... I think it's the majority of trans people, actually.
04:11:43 <hppavilion[1]> I guess we just drop them from the equation for now?
04:11:53 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: It is the majority of trans women, yes.
04:12:07 <hppavilion[1]> Or, at least, trans people are negligible as they make up <1% of the population
04:12:24 <hppavilion[1]> And I think they still benefit from choosing to be bi, it's just that straight sex is better for them
04:12:45 <hppavilion[1]> (The only game-sex with perfect information is, of course, masturbation)
04:13:23 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Modulo the fact that trans people's sexual responses can be quite different from a cis person's, even with the same genitalia in both cases.
04:13:28 <pikhq> Because psychology.
04:13:32 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes
04:13:39 <hppavilion[1]> Forgot about that too
04:13:56 <pikhq> Hormones can also be relevant.
04:14:06 <pikhq> But anyways!
04:14:45 <pikhq> The general point that there can be factors in sexual orientation that would influence your decision making, resulting in *very* different choices if it were in fact a choice, is quite valid.
04:14:46 <hppavilion[1]> Yes!
04:14:57 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
04:15:27 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, OK
04:15:41 <hppavilion[1]> But since people can't know your orientation unless they obtain information- which in theory should be concealable- you can evade most of those issues by being bi but being a little more discreet about gay sex
04:16:00 <hppavilion[1]> (a bi person having sex with someone of the same gender is still considered "gay sex", right?)
04:16:05 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: And with gay people being more discreet about the straight sex.
04:16:17 <pikhq> I say so, at least.
04:16:25 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Yes, but gays at least tend to be more accepting
04:16:36 <hppavilion[1]> Though "biphobia" is actually a thing...
04:16:39 <pikhq> Oddly enough there can be serious biphobia in some parts of the gay community.
04:16:42 <hppavilion[1]> For some reason...
04:16:48 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Yeah
04:16:54 <pikhq> Mostly from people who assert that you're not bi, you're just in the closet.
04:17:11 <hppavilion[1]> My dad's boyfriend is a gay man that is homophobic, but only towards lesbians...
04:17:24 <pikhq> :(
04:17:28 <hppavilion[1]> Don't ask how it works, I don't know
04:19:57 <pikhq> Sounds confusing but not unheard of.
04:20:09 <hppavilion[1]> ...what the fuck is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_based_on_hair_texture
04:20:24 <hppavilion[1]> That is the most OR bullshit I have ever read
04:20:34 <pikhq> OR?
04:22:34 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: "Original Research"
04:23:03 <hppavilion[1]> It looks like someone didn't get a job, decided it was because they had curly hair, ranted about it, and made it into a wikipedia page
04:23:37 <pikhq> Ah. I will say, the phenomenon discussed there *is* a real thing. But it's kinda subtle, and is really more a particular manifestation of racism than anything else.
04:23:45 <pikhq> ... And this article is crap at discussing it.
04:25:09 <pikhq> My guess is some undergrad African-American studies student realized there wasn't a Wikipedia article about it and turned a class assignment into it.
04:28:12 <hppavilion[1]> Yep
04:28:27 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: A bad class assignment at that, but they probably got an A
04:28:39 <pikhq> *nod*
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04:34:53 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: How exactly does the idea of "ablism" work?
04:37:15 <hppavilion[1]> divisaur
04:38:20 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: "ableism" is literally discrimination against those with disabilities.
04:38:49 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Yeah
04:38:54 <hppavilion[1]> And how does that count as injustice?
04:39:16 <hppavilion[1]> I mean, you are literally disabled
04:39:34 <pikhq> It goes broader than simply failing to account for accessibility.
04:40:03 <hppavilion[1]> Even if the job likely won't involve a lot of walking, someone with working legs is probably a better hire than someone who's paraplegic
04:40:09 <pikhq> You would be surprised how often e.g. a deaf person is treated as a non-person.
04:43:15 <oerjan> @metar CUIL
04:43:16 <lambdabot> No result.
04:43:36 <oerjan> darn
04:46:53 <pikhq> Remember, compulsory sterilization has happened as late as *2010*.
04:47:04 <pikhq> In the US.
04:48:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Oerjan * blocked [[User:]] with an expiry time of 1 year (anonymous users only, account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
04:52:12 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Ah, yes
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05:52:16 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, is it possible to change what my IP directs to in a geoip database?
05:53:27 <hppavilion[1]> Because I want the internet to think I live in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaace
05:55:45 <Jafet> no, there isn't: http://fusion.net/story/287592/internet-mapping-glitch-kansas-farm/
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11:38:05 <boily> `wisdom
11:38:06 <HackEgo> but//But is a Trintercal operator.
12:28:11 <b_jonas> So in fantasy fiction, nobility ranks come in two suits: the Good ranks are named prince, duke, earl, whereas the Evil ranks are named king, count, baron.
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12:35:21 <FreeFull> `wisdom
12:35:22 <HackEgo> orin//orin is oren's evil twin, stalking him from the other side of the international date line.
12:36:04 <FreeFull> b_jonas: In which fantasy fiction?
12:36:40 <FreeFull> There definitely are good kings in some fantasy books
12:43:45 <fizzie> Sometimes there are evil princes that murder good kings.
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12:46:18 <FreeFull> Lord of the Rings had both good and bad kings
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12:50:42 <fizzie> I assume you mean the entire verse, not just the books with that title.
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13:03:10 <FreeFull> I meant the books
13:11:47 <fizzie> Then I can't think of very many evil kings. I don't think Sauron counts as a king, Denethor certainly doesn't, and Théoden wasn't really "evil" even before getting better.
13:19:32 * Robdgreat pulls the plug
13:19:37 <Robdgreat> You have no power here!
13:20:55 <fizzie> In retrospect, I guess the Witch-King of Angmar counts, though.
13:21:40 <FreeFull> fizzie: How about the Witch-king of Angmar?
13:22:05 <fizzie> That's what I *just* said.
13:22:14 <FreeFull> Oh, I didn't read that line before I wrote mine
13:24:16 <b_jonas> Yeah, doesn't work too well for the Lord of the Ring, which has elf Lords/Ladies and human ruling stewards instead of elf kings/queens. King Ar-Pharazôn of Númenor could count as an Evil king thouhg.
13:26:06 <b_jonas> FreeFull: the arch-example (which might have popularized this a bit) is Dune, which plays duke Leto Atreides against baron Vladimir Harkonnen.
13:27:13 <b_jonas> Tvtrope's take on the nobility titles is (TVTROPES WARNING) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AristocratsAreEvil
13:32:08 <b_jonas> Note though that Galadriel considered turning from an ordinary elf Lady to a beautiful and terrible Queen.
13:33:01 <fizzie> I'm not sure what determines the kingliness/queenliness of elves, anyway. Thingol was the king of Doriath and Thranduil the king of the woodland elves, but Celeborn, Galadriel and Elrond are all nondescript Lords and Ladies of their places.
13:33:23 <fizzie> Thingol and Thranduil weren't all that evil, though AIUI the latter was a bit of a dick.
13:36:58 <fizzie> And Ingwë, Fingon and Olwë were somehow the kings of Vanyar, Noldor and Teleri, respectively. So it doesn't really seem to depend on having a proper sort of kingdom to run.
13:39:27 <FreeFull> Maybe some elves were like "Do we want to have a monarchy" and some said "Sure", and the others "Nah"
13:40:32 <fizzie> Finland was supposed to have a king once, but that never went anywhere -- now we just read news about the Swedish royalty instead.
13:40:54 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Finland_(1918)
13:41:48 <FreeFull> Poland hasn't had a monarchy in a while now
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13:43:46 <FreeFull> The last monarch stopped ruling in 1815
13:44:03 <FreeFull> And that was just a Duke, not a King
13:44:12 <FreeFull> Last king stopped in 1795
13:44:49 <FreeFull> Because of the Third Partition of Poland
13:47:16 <FreeFull> Man, Poland has had it rough
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14:06:24 <zemhill__> kaoD.test: points -25.19, score 12.50, rank 24/47
14:08:05 <zemhill__> kaoD.test: points -30.76, score 6.56, rank 47/47 (-23)
14:08:26 <zemhill__> kaoD.test: points -25.19, score 10.71, rank 45/47 (+2)
14:16:15 <b_jonas> `bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=tree-percussions
14:16:20 <HackEgo> bardsworthlist http://www.bardsworth.com/?comic=tree-percussions: b_jonas
14:21:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Churro]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49671&oldid=43972 * Martin Ender * (+65) add categories
14:36:21 <izabera> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions
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15:21:16 <b_jonas> `? strt
15:21:17 <HackEgo> strt? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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15:51:38 <b_jonas> `? 4rn4
15:51:39 <HackEgo> 4rn4? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:52:02 <b_jonas> `learn The 4rn4 has two false goals.
15:52:04 <HackEgo> Learned '4rn4': The 4rn4 has two false goals.
15:52:09 <b_jonas> no wait
15:52:13 <b_jonas> `unlearn 4rn4
15:52:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unlearn: not found
15:52:17 <b_jonas> `forget 4rn4
15:52:19 <HackEgo> Forget what?
15:52:30 <b_jonas> `learn The 4RN4 has two false goals.
15:52:32 <HackEgo> Learned '4rn4': The 4RN4 has two false goals.
15:52:37 <b_jonas> better
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16:13:23 <fizzie> You can just `learn without `forgetting, and then it'll relearn.
16:16:03 <b_jonas> fizzie: yes, I was just sort of stupid there
16:16:21 <b_jonas> I thought it would have to use a different filename for 4RN4, but obviously no
16:27:21 <\oren\> Hmm, I'm looking at the skin color emojis in samsung's new font
16:27:29 <\oren\> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CrBBDfbWYAA5z93.jpg
16:28:23 <\oren\> It's interesting that the default is brown haired european, 1-2 is pale asian, and 3 appears to be gyaru.
16:35:24 <\oren\> Also, there's a lot of drama apparently because the new iOS font shows 🔫 as a water gun instead of a real gun.
16:38:03 <\oren\> Actually, having skin tone 3 be gyaru helps a lot because we can use [Emoji Modifier Fitzpatrick Type-3][Man] as Trump.
16:40:11 <\oren\> There's a haircut emoji but it's a pity there's no "bad haircut" emoji
16:43:26 <fizzie> I heard of the water gun thing.
16:45:34 <fizzie> I got the impression the main concern was that you think you're sending fun water gun pictures and your friends think you're pointing a real gun at them.
16:47:16 <Jafet> there is already a fun discrepancy with REMINDER RIBBON
16:52:27 <\oren\> I have suggested that unicode encode a water gun emoji in the next round
16:55:31 <\oren\> Jafet: oh, right, some are pink and some are yellow iirc
16:56:57 <\oren\> I have no idea what yellow ribbon means however
17:01:53 <gamemanj> one day someone will make a "create a face app", and it won't have any face rendering code
17:02:01 <gamemanj> It'll just call the text renderer
17:03:24 <\oren\> OH god no why no
17:03:52 <gamemanj> text renderers are becoming complicated enough that you could get away with doing that nowadays
17:04:08 <gamemanj> you'd just need a very good font
17:06:14 <myname> i am confused by thw last row
17:06:22 <myname> why are there 6 fingers?
17:08:13 <\oren\> myname: OH GOD WHAT I CANT WHY DID YOU TELL ME
17:09:37 <gamemanj> why are there so many emoji characters, though...
17:10:11 <APic> WHy not?
17:10:31 <\oren\> gamemanj: nowadays if more than one cell phone maker has it, they generally will encode it
17:11:39 <\oren\> originally, it was because multiple Japanese cellphone makers had filled in the gaps in Shift-JIS with emoji.
17:11:40 <APic> lambdabot: !help
17:12:17 <APic> lambdabot: Please leave „oerjan“ a Message stating „Thank You very much Dude, that was a quite helpful Message indeed.“
17:12:32 <APic> Can someone instruct me to achieve that, please?
17:12:33 <Jafet> the unicode consortium aims to encode all writing systems used in human communication
17:12:41 <myname> with @tell
17:12:44 <APic> Thanks
17:12:55 <myname> you @tell user message
17:13:00 <APic> @tell oerjan Thank You very much Dude, that was a quite helpful Message indeed!
17:13:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:13:03 <APic> o/
17:13:05 <APic> Thanks. ☺
17:13:07 <APic> Win.
17:13:15 <b_jonas> I would like to note that Signwriting is now encoded as unicode, and it needs horribly complicated text shaping algorithms to actually render, because you have to combine lots of modifiers to get a glyph, and there's way too many possibilities to pre-render. It's among the hardest to render scripts encoded in unicode.
17:14:43 <\oren\> I wor one intend only to add emoji once the terminal software makers decide how to render them
17:15:12 <gamemanj> Terminal software makers have no idea. I mean, in theory you could treat them as 16x16 charcells, but then there's the combining chars and modifiers.
17:15:16 <b_jonas> I don't know why they even chose to encode it as characters, rather than a domain-specific non-character-based language like five-staff musical notation or 2d maths notation.
17:15:56 <gamemanj> Terminals and emoji just don't work
17:16:01 <\oren\> I mean, right now on most terminals, ☁️ is a half-width character, which doesn't work
17:16:02 <b_jonas> (Am I being crazy here?)
17:16:15 <Jafet> presumably you can now add combining marks to hand signs
17:16:24 <gamemanj> b_jonas: Not really, but it's "against the goal of Unicode" not to encode everything
17:16:35 <gamemanj> I bet there is a way to encode five-staff musical notation in Unicode
17:16:38 <\oren\> But the newest version of unicode made emoji fullwidth.
17:17:06 <b_jonas> gamemanj: I don't think that's how it works. They only want to encode characters, not formatting.
17:17:22 <\oren\> But I need to wait for terminal software to catch up
17:17:38 <APic> Yah, Things need Time to evolve.
17:17:45 <\oren\> (and, presumably, editors and such)
17:18:31 * APic switched back from „mosh“ to „ssh“ because my „glibc“ cannot correctly parse „😸“ yet.
17:18:54 <\oren\> Also, I don't intend to ever have colors in my font
17:19:03 <APic> With good old SSH i only see a Rectangle, but under „mosh“, i see just nothing at all, a blank Space, which is much worse for me.
17:19:34 <APic> (Term: rxvt-unicode, for the Record)
17:19:36 <\oren\> I'm using this through two tmuxes and ssh, and I see a fullwidth cat
17:19:47 <APic> That is nice. ☺
17:19:49 <\oren\> but the cat is covering up the und quote
17:19:57 <\oren\> s/und/end/
17:20:00 <gamemanj> b_jonas: They do encode formatting already, in a way.
17:20:01 <APic> That is not that good.
17:20:05 <gamemanj> b_jonas: U+000A
17:20:32 <gamemanj> b_jonas: Also RTL/LTR overrides
17:20:38 <\oren\> gamemanj: there are a lot of different space and endline variants
17:20:53 <gamemanj> Exactly
17:21:03 <gamemanj> Just goes to show that they were encoding formatting from the start
17:21:04 <\oren\>            ​‌‍‎
17:21:08 <b_jonas> I mean, look at the text we have in like our sacred books, say the complete works of Arany János or some other literature. Apart from two handfuls of non-ascii characters like áéíóöőúüűAÉÍÓÖŐÚÜŰ–…„”»« and fixed with space which I still don't know if it has a unicode encoding, it uses italic. A lot of italic. Plus a couple of levels of indentation sometimes. The italic isn't supposed to be encoded as characters, and usually is
17:21:19 <b_jonas> \ Plus a couple of levels of indentation sometimes. The italic isn't supposed to be encoded as characters, and usually isn't.
17:22:21 <\oren\> Above, if you're using my font, you'll see that I compromized by putting in small abbreiations for what kind of space it is
17:22:52 <gamemanj> and if you aren't, you have no idea!
17:23:08 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/fontdemo.htm
17:23:23 <\oren\> Under, "General Punctuation"
17:23:52 <b_jonas> So it's completely normal that text contains formatting stuff that isn't characters, like at least italic and headings (chapter titles) and block quotes and the occasional centered row of stars separator, and possibly also line breaks and paragraph breaks and multiple levels of indents, although the latter ones are easy to represent as characters.
17:24:36 <b_jonas> \oren\: right, that's the opposite choice as I made in my font. in my font, space characters and the nul character are the only ones that do have a glyph but it isn't distinguishable from ordinary ascii stuff.
17:24:56 <\oren\> Italic exists in unicode for latin letters
17:25:22 <\oren\> But it's not supposed to be used for anything except math
17:25:28 <b_jonas> \oren\: isn't that supposed to be for _math_ italic variables, as opposed to italicized text?
17:25:34 <b_jonas> right, that
17:26:07 <b_jonas> That would usually look wrong for text, and might not have all the necessary characters (you'll need an italicized hyphen at least, which maths doesn't use).
17:26:09 <\oren\> Yeah, but I don't recognize their authority to set rules
17:26:31 <b_jonas> Hmm, now I wonder which punctuations ever appear italicized in Arany János poems.
17:26:49 <b_jonas> \oren\: I might not recognize unicode's authority, but math italics and text italics are distinct things to me.
17:26:54 <\oren\> So I designed my font in such a way that italics will look ok as running text
17:27:39 <b_jonas> \oren\: do you have like a full set of italicized common punctuation marks, for italicized text? possibly in a separate font?
17:27:40 <\oren\> as will the cursive/script latin
17:27:47 <APic> If Unicode already has „Yellow Heart: 💛“, why should not it have „Yellow Letter A“, or „Yellow Letter π“, also?
17:28:09 <\oren\> Yeah I'm not doing colors.
17:28:27 <\oren\> in terminals we have a better way of doing colors
17:29:28 <APic> *nod*
17:29:53 <\oren\> msee?
17:30:07 <\oren\> wait why does that look wrong
17:31:07 <\oren\> see?
17:31:13 <\oren\> ah there we go
17:32:17 <\oren\> actually what happens if I do ☁️ thsi
17:32:35 <\oren\> stupid emoji, i wanted a green cloud
17:33:08 <\oren\> ☁ test
17:33:14 <\oren\> ah there we go
17:33:22 <\oren\> the non-emoji cloud works
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17:58:17 <zzo38> Unicode is 900% stupid.
17:59:02 <myname> citation needed
17:59:51 <zzo38> I do design UTCE deliberately omitting complex scripts and stuff that is not easily rendered in terminals, since it is designed mainly for terminals anyways (not for typesetting). (For typesetting, a system like TeX and METAFONT, perhaps a bit more extended, would help more.)
18:02:40 <APic> zzo38: It is what has evolved naturally. Nature as a Whole is also way > 100% stupid.
18:04:14 <gamemanj> Stupid, dumb, and yet we're talking here...
18:06:45 <gamemanj> TBH, I consider Unicode less stupid than the ways to encode it
18:07:09 <gamemanj> TBH, if it wasn't for UTF-16, we might have been able to just use bitfields instead of combining char madness
18:07:25 <gamemanj> but this is the way it played out
18:08:06 <zzo38> Do you like my UTCE design?
18:08:40 <gamemanj> Can't find it. Is there a link?
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18:09:00 <zzo38> (Taking advantage of UTCE fonts is still possible even if you are running programs that use ISO 2022 instead.)
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18:09:27 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/utce
18:10:04 <gamemanj> I already see an issue with this.
18:10:15 <gamemanj> There's a reason UTF-8 avoids the 0x00 to 0x7F area...
18:10:36 <gamemanj> Things like C compilers tend to treat the input as ASCII,
18:11:20 <zzo38> Yes, I do know that things. And, normally you still would treat input as ASCII. I try to make the compromise.
18:12:09 <gamemanj> Yes, but it looks like, say, \x80\x20 would be valid.
18:12:35 <\oren\> UTF-8 would be better if all multibyte characters were the same length
18:12:38 <zzo38> (The codes less than 0x80 that are used are those which are unlikely to cause problems with ASCII parsers and with text strings that don't use other encodings.)
18:12:51 <zzo38> gamemanj: It isn't valid.
18:13:22 <gamemanj> eh, "unlikely to"...
18:13:28 <gamemanj> issue is that "unlikely" is an odd thing
18:13:51 <zzo38> (How it will be interpreted is implementation dependent. My suggestion is to display a single-width error indicator followed by a space.)
18:13:57 <\oren\> like it could be 03xx,02xx,02xx alawys
18:14:59 <gamemanj> \oren\: I actually think UTF-8 is fine as it was, before they banned anything that wouldn't work in UTF-16.
18:15:39 <zzo38> I think UTF-8 is fine, although Unicode is not fine.
18:16:07 <\oren\> gamemanj: I came up with an encoding that uses the "infernal planes" characters to encode common ansi sequences smaller
18:16:20 <gamemanj> zzo38: Well, Unicode's a mess, that's for sure.
18:16:49 <gamemanj> Also, "Worse Is Better" reminds me of "War Is Peace", somehow.
18:17:29 <\oren\> e.g. "\300\301" could encode bold instead of "\e[1m"
18:18:11 <\oren\> this is not valid utf-8 because "\300\301" would be a redundant encoding of "\1"
18:18:35 <\oren\> er, I mean "\300\201"
18:21:11 <\oren\> I divide unicode into "material plane" 16 bit characters, "astral plane" characters, "infernal plane" redundant utf-8 encodings, and "supernal plane" utf-8 characters that can't be encoded in utf-16
18:23:17 <gamemanj> funny thing how languages which claim to support international stuff use UTF-16 for everything
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18:23:40 <gamemanj> which just leaves them at square one, really...
18:24:41 <zzo38> So "supernal plane" means stuff outside of Unicode range?
18:25:11 <\oren\> zzo38: right, numbers beyond the range of UTF-16, but still in the range of UTF-8
18:25:17 <gamemanj> It wasn't outside of Unicode range. It is now, but it wasn't really until UTF-16 came along that it was really restricted...
18:25:31 <zzo38> OK
18:26:00 <\oren\> I wonder...
18:26:12 <gamemanj> Nowadays there is no possible way you can even handle the codepoint 0xABCDEF12 in Java. You can't even get the data in, because everything's been sufficiently UTF-16'd.
18:26:38 <zzo38> gamemanj: Can you create an array of 32-bit numbers and use that as storiage instead of an array of 16-bit numbers?
18:26:54 <gamemanj> Yes, but you're doing your string handling manually from that point on.
18:27:22 <\oren\> `` echo -e '\300\361'
18:27:22 <HackEgo> ​\300\361
18:27:24 <gamemanj> And things that take, say, filenames...
18:27:31 <zzo38> (In JavaScript, strings are lists of 16-bit numbers, although there is also Int32Array and that stuff too; those are objects and not strings though.)
18:27:46 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\300\361";'
18:27:46 <HackEgo> ​Àñ
18:27:54 <\oren\> interesting
18:28:13 <\oren\> if it did utf-8 naively then that would just be '1'
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18:28:51 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\300\261";'
18:28:52 <HackEgo> ​À±
18:29:13 <\oren\> crap I always forget the start bytes and end bytes
18:29:53 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\340\202\234";'
18:29:54 <HackEgo> â€‹à‚œ
18:32:16 <zzo38> (Also in JavaScript, fromCharCode and charCodeAt treat the data as raw 16-bit numbers, while codePointAt and fromCodePoint treat the data in the string as UTF-16 instead. Both are useful, I think.)
18:32:18 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\360\200\200\261";'
18:32:18 <HackEgo> â€‹ð€€±
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18:34:13 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\360\200\200\261";' | iconv -futf8 -tutf8
18:34:14 <HackEgo> iconv: illegal input sequence at position 0
18:34:51 <zzo38> See what utftovlq does with that? Also see what hd does with that.
18:36:40 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\360\200\200\261";' | iconv -f10646-1 -tutf8
18:36:41 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `10646-1' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
18:36:49 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\360\200\200\261";' | iconv -f10646-1/utf8 -tutf8
18:36:49 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `10646-1/utf8' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
18:36:57 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\360\200\200\261";' | iconv -f10646-1/utf-8 -tutf8
18:36:58 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `10646-1/utf-8' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
18:37:15 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\360\200\200\261";' | iconv -fiso:10646/utf-8 -tutf8
18:37:15 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `iso:10646/utf-8' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
18:37:21 <\oren\> `` perl -e 'print "\360\200\200\261";' | iconv -fiso:10646 -tutf8
18:37:22 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion from `iso:10646' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
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18:54:44 <wob_jonas> I just got a letter from Taiwan, containing the SD cards I ordered, and on the envelope, they printed almost the whole address correctly, including all the non-ascii letters. Nice.
18:55:07 <wob_jonas> I should count my blessings.
18:55:18 <gamemanj> It's Taiwan. Of course they have to support Unicode.
18:56:15 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: you'd think that.
18:56:29 <gamemanj> Oh?
18:57:30 <wob_jonas> But yes, this particular vendor seems to support unicode fine. They don't support international mail address formats, but that's basically impossible with these stupid fixed format forms.
18:58:18 <gamemanj> Makes it sound like a miracle it arrived in one piece...
18:58:40 <zzo38> I am not sure why they should support one without the other
18:58:43 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
18:59:45 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: Why? they printed the address almost correct. It should arrive correctly, because the post does generally support international mail, even if they can't handle it in bulk like they can handle PROPERLY formatted mass mail within borders.
19:01:46 <wob_jonas> International mail address formatting is sort of like personal names. You can't make any sane form for it, because there's an infinity of different formats, ever changing by time, and for mail address formats, you can often only find information in various local languages.
19:02:50 <wob_jonas> The only way you can accept any name is to take a SINGLE free-form text input, and the best you can do with international mail is two free-form fields, one containing the rest of the address, and one containing the country, and you force the latter to upper case. But few people do this with mail addresses, because that would just lead to lots of us
19:02:50 <wob_jonas> er errors,
19:03:07 <\oren\> I once paid a thing in Japan using a wire transfer.
19:03:14 <wob_jonas> since the people who order also don't understand mail address formats, and enter random junk. They don't even read the guide from the local post office written in their local language.
19:03:19 <APic> `` uname -a
19:03:20 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux
19:03:25 <APic> UML owns
19:03:25 <\oren\> The clerk was very confused by the address I gave
19:03:45 <wob_jonas> Now I'll test if these SD cards actually work, and have the speed they promise.
19:03:56 <\oren\> apparently the people at the Japanese bank figured it out somehow
19:03:58 * APic wonders whether Jeff Dike is a Woman, a Man, or something in between, or none. ;)
19:04:15 <APic> `` top
19:04:26 <APic> `` ls
19:04:28 <HackEgo> advice \ bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
19:04:37 <APic> `` cd bin
19:04:38 <HackEgo> No output.
19:04:40 <APic> `` ls
19:04:42 <HackEgo> advice \ bin \ canary \ candide \ cdescs \ emoticons \ esobible \ etc \ evil \ factor \ good \ hw \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ le \ lib \ ls \ misle \ out \ paste \ ply-3.8 \ ps \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ theorems \ tmflry \ tmp \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
19:04:46 <APic> `` ls bin
19:04:47 <HackEgo> No output.
19:04:47 <HackEgo> ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ " \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ welcome \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 7z \ 7za \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \
19:04:50 <\oren\> `` cd bin; ls
19:04:50 <HackEgo> ​` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ " \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ welcome \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 7z \ 7za \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ aseen \ asm \ autowelcome \ bardsworthlist \ before \
19:05:12 <APic> `` cd bin; cd 2017; ls
19:05:13 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: cd: 2017: Not a directory \ ` \ `` \ ^.^ \ ̊ \ \ ! \ ? \ ?? \ ¿ \ ' \ " \ @ \ * \ ؟ \ \ \ \ welcome \ 1 \ 1492 \ 2014 \ 2015 \ 2016 \ 2017 \ 5 \ 5quote \ 7z \ 7za \ 8ball \ 8-ball \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addtodo \ aglist \ allquotes \ analogy \ anonlog \ append \ arienvenido \ as86 \ as
19:05:19 <APic> `` cd bin; file 2017
19:05:20 <HackEgo> 2017: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable
19:05:30 <\oren\> `2017
19:05:30 <APic> `` cd bin; ls -la 2017
19:05:30 <HackEgo> No output.
19:05:31 <HackEgo> ​-rwxr-xr-x 1 5000 0 79 Jan 1 2016 2017
19:05:41 <\oren\> `2017 hello
19:05:41 <HackEgo> No output.
19:05:51 <\oren\> `cat bin/2017
19:05:52 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
19:06:01 <APic> 2016
19:06:04 <APic> Darn
19:06:09 <\oren\> `2016
19:06:09 <HackEgo> Hello, world!
19:06:10 <APic> Wrong World ;)
19:06:14 <\oren\> `2015
19:06:14 <HackEgo> Hello, world!
19:06:17 <APic> `pwd
19:06:18 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv
19:06:23 <APic> `export
19:06:25 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: export: not found
19:06:26 <\oren\> `2014
19:06:26 <HackEgo> No output.
19:06:29 <\oren\> `2015
19:06:31 <HackEgo> Hello, world!
19:06:36 <\oren\> `cat bin/2015
19:06:38 <APic> `echo $PATH
19:06:38 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) != "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
19:06:38 <HackEgo> ​$PATH
19:06:46 <\oren\> `cat bin/2016
19:06:46 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yeah, international mail transfer is sort of strange too. banks ask for the IBAN number (a nice standardized format number that uniquely identifies the recipient account), name of recipient, name of bank of recieving account, and the town of that bank (how the fuck should I know that?).
19:06:47 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ if [ $(date +%Y) = "$(basename "$0")" ] \ then echo "Hello, world!" \ fi
19:07:10 <wob_jonas> Oh, and it's like train tickets:
19:07:31 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
19:07:43 <APic> ?? ¿
19:07:43 <lambdabot> ¿
19:07:44 <myname> 2015 puzzles me
19:07:49 <APic> `` ?? ¿
19:07:53 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: hw: command not found
19:08:05 <wob_jonas> you can do international bank transfer and international train tickets with handwritten form, which is basically impossible for in-country train tickets or bank transfer, because in-country is too automated to mess with any handwriting.
19:08:21 <\oren\> `date +%Y
19:08:21 <HackEgo> 2016
19:08:33 <gamemanj> we have magnetic strips
19:09:00 <gamemanj> I vaguely recall there's also numbers just in case that fails, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a barcode
19:09:22 <myname> wob_jonas: OCR
19:09:25 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: for what?
19:09:29 <gamemanj> train tickets
19:09:35 <wob_jonas> ah
19:09:57 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
19:10:15 <\oren\> I just talked to the clerk to do the bank transfer, so I was like, you need the number three, then c h o m e, then nishi, that's n i s h i
19:10:33 <wob_jonas> Here, most train tickets are just plain printed to special paper, except for train tickets you print at home (as opposed to buy from home and print it from a self-operated machine at the big stations), which has some sort of machine-readable barcode,
19:10:38 <\oren\> and so on it was a huge pain
19:10:55 <wob_jonas> presumably because the home-printed one doesn't have a special paper to prove its authenticity, so they need to check it more carefully that you're not just making up all the data.
19:12:02 <gamemanj> They probably check anyway, even with special paper or magnetic stripes
19:12:25 <gamemanj> firstly there's the ticket entry gates
19:12:34 <gamemanj> those are likely network-connected if not anything else
19:12:52 <gamemanj> then there's the fact the trains generally have poor Wifi, bet it works a lot better for the ticket inspector's machine
19:13:27 <\oren\> well, you could use an offline protocol
19:13:32 -!- jaboja has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
19:13:47 <gamemanj> Nah, you need to be able to verify the ticket wasn't reused
19:14:14 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: They don't check the tickets you buy at a station. The controller just reads it and marks it without using any electronics. He must trust the special paper, because there's nothing on it they could verify in their head. (Controllers aren't require to be able to compute public-key cryptography in their head.)
19:14:45 <\oren\> gamemanj: that's why they punch a hole in your ticket
19:15:26 <gamemanj> Pretty sure there's a device they use, but who knows. It's been a while since I was last on a train.
19:15:26 -!- kaoD has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:15:41 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: they put a marking with a pen to make sure you can't reuse them. the marking is just a four digit number (handwritten ugly) that identifies which train you're on, plus, if it's not the same date as the first valid date on the ticket, the date.
19:15:50 <APic> \oren\: Here (Germany) they just stamp Ink on it, they do not punch a Hole
19:16:06 <\oren\> true. I last took a train in 2013 or so before they shut down the Ontario Northland line.
19:16:06 <wob_jonas> That much is basically enough to check you're not re-using the ticket.
19:16:31 <wob_jonas> Not completely, but almost, as in, all the ways you could reuse it are very impractical and you can't gain much from them.
19:16:43 <wob_jonas> (And sometimes risky too.)
19:17:04 <wob_jonas> It's actually much harder to cheat than on the Budapest public transport.
19:17:16 -!- MoALTz has joined.
19:17:37 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: there's an electronic device the controllers use for selling tickets on the train, and for checking self-printed tickets.
19:17:52 <wob_jonas> they don't use that for ordinary tickets.
19:18:15 <\oren\> I suppose I also took the Shinkansen, but that was all electronic with magstripes, I'm not even sure the train had an actual driver
19:18:50 <\oren\> the ticket gets read when you enter the stations, and again when you leave
19:19:07 <\oren\> It might even be written
19:19:19 <wob_jonas> \oren\: what? you need a driver for any train unless it's all in an underground tunnel, don't you? You might not need a _controller_, but you need a driver.
19:20:55 <\oren\> this was the narita-tokyo line, the whole line is closed in with fences
19:21:13 <\oren\> and a lot of it is raised
19:22:14 <wob_jonas> \oren\: is it closed enough that even medium-sized animals can't cross it level?
19:22:30 <\oren\> almost certainly
19:22:33 <wob_jonas> hmm
19:22:56 <wob_jonas> I wonder if you can close a surface train line that well.
19:23:06 <wob_jonas> Maybe that's possible in Japan, I dunno.
19:23:16 <\oren\> much of the line is inside city
19:23:21 <APic> Yah, the Train in Nuremberg here is also only in the Underground
19:24:07 <\oren\> you only get a few minutes of rice paddies before you start having the train pass within a few feet of buildings onboth sides
19:24:30 <\oren\> like you can literally look into some people's bedroom windows
19:24:45 <wob_jonas> APic: the new M4 metro line is completely underground and without drivers (but instead it has two or three attendants at the platform of every station plus people watching it remotely, so I'm not sure how much they gain from no drivers)
19:25:35 <APic> lol
19:25:49 <\oren\> I wonder what it would be like to take the narita-tokyo line at say, 11 pm
19:25:54 <APic> People just trust humanoid Figures way too much.
19:26:40 <gamemanj> remember, a cardboard cutout works just as well as a real driver
19:27:04 <gamemanj> at least, a driver who is asleep
19:27:16 <APic> Yah
19:27:23 <APic> NPC
19:28:37 <\oren\> or a driver who is trying to catch pokemon by hurling pokeballs at them as he passes by them at 300 km/h
19:28:59 <gamemanj> If Pokemon Go infects train drivers
19:29:02 <gamemanj> we're all doomed
19:29:37 <\oren\> actually, the narita line only goes at like 150 kmh becuase of you know, passing right by houses
19:29:50 <APic> We are doomed by the Matrix no Matter what happens.
19:30:03 <\oren\> but if you took like the tokyo-osaka line, lol
19:30:12 <fizzie> I saw this at a park the other day: https://zem.fi/tmp/pgo.jpg
19:30:33 <fizzie> (The park was full of people playing.)
19:30:47 <\oren\> lol
19:31:06 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: dunno, despite that it creeped me out when I saw a tram driver messing with his handheld mobile phone in the same station where a careless pedestrian stepped under the tram just a day before (he turned out to be our new co-worker, who started working that day, and didn't get seriously injured);
19:31:39 <gamemanj> I don't blame them for putting a sign like that up... At least it's not one of those graveyards with pokestops in...
19:31:49 <wob_jonas> the actual fact is that bus drivers and tram drivers manage to drive an order of magnitude safer than the car drivers, and this is quite consistently true because it applies to both Europe and America.
19:32:26 <\oren\> oh god what if someone showed up to a burial and it was like "how did you know him?" "look, a dragonite!"
19:32:40 <wob_jonas> (This was before Pokemon Go, but after smartphones.)
19:33:29 <gamemanj> Don't worry, it won't be the case anymore.
19:33:45 <gamemanj> I'm talking to wob_jonas, BTW.
19:34:07 <gamemanj> Unfortunately, people will show up to burials talking about dragonites.
19:35:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:35:10 <fizzie> There's a memorial to Marc Bolan nearby here, around the place where he died in a car crash.
19:35:13 <fizzie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolan%27s_Rock_Shrine
19:35:19 <fizzie> It's a Pokémon Go gym.
19:35:41 <wob_jonas> gamemanj: I'm not sure. Aren't Pokemon Go players and bus drivers somewhat different age groups? Also, I expect the Pokemon Go craze will get much lower in a year, when people realize the game doesn't live up to its expectation and the great premise, and companies start to make better games like that.
19:36:04 <wob_jonas> This is slow. Is my SD card reader slow? Or the motherboard or what? I don't get it.
19:36:10 <\oren\> I know a bus criver who is 31 or so
19:36:12 <wob_jonas> This is supposed to write fast.
19:36:23 <APic> wob_jonas: What is „this“?
19:36:31 <gamemanj> Presumably, IO to an SD card.
19:36:33 <wob_jonas> APic: testing speed of new SD card
19:36:42 <wob_jonas> by writing large files to it
19:36:48 * APic sees.
19:37:00 <APic> SSD-Memory is Rocket-Science B-)
19:37:42 <wob_jonas> Maybe I need a newer SD card reader or something. Or a newer computer. Definitely a new computer, this one is old, regardless of this SD card thing.
19:38:30 <APic> Google-branded Cell-Phones stopped supporting removable microSDs because of the Driver-Hell
19:39:07 <APic> My Nexus 5X has „/sdcard“ on the non-removable 32GB-Storage
19:39:30 <APic> While my Nokia N900 has 32GB internal eMMC _and_ a microSD-Slot
19:39:43 <wob_jonas> what driver hell? they seem to just work for me. I thought they just stopped with removable micro sd because wireless transfer through wifi and bluetooth got well supported enough, plus they want to push people to store their files online.
19:39:48 * APic loves his N900. Would not have bought the Nexus. Got it from a rich Friend as a Present
19:40:06 <APic> I do not know what Hell specifically. Just read about it.
19:40:21 <wob_jonas> Driver hell is true, but not about SD cards I think.
19:40:22 * APic really needs a Hardware-Keyboard on his main Phone
19:40:30 <wob_jonas> But for other hardware.
19:40:35 <APic> Ok
19:40:46 <wob_jonas> But don't believe me, I'm not a hardware guy.
19:40:54 <wob_jonas> Oh man, this is really slow
19:41:05 * APic is a Discordian and thus forbidden to believe whatever he reads. B-)
19:41:17 <gamemanj> APic, the sky is generally considered to be blue.
19:41:27 <fizzie> There's the performance thing, as I think wob_jonas is currently finding out.
19:41:27 <APic> *shrug*
19:41:47 <gamemanj> So, APic, what do you now believe people generally consider the sky to be?
19:41:53 <APic> The Sky sometimes _looks_ blue, from a given Perspective.
19:42:10 * gamemanj writes down "the depth, it is too much for me"
19:42:15 <APic> I cannot answer that Question generally. It is way too subjective.
19:42:32 <APic> Yah, i am more the Breadth-first-Dude
19:42:36 <gamemanj> What is important about the Question such that it is Capitalized?
19:42:51 <APic> My Capitalizm has nothing to do with any Question.
19:43:03 <APic> ;)
19:43:04 * gamemanj melts to the floor
19:43:10 <APic> k
19:43:18 * APic continues watching the Simpsons S01E11
19:45:24 <zzo38> Is it possible to use a CSS code to make text in multiple columns of a printout?
19:46:31 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I dunno
19:50:03 <\oren\> zzo38: I doubt it but I think you can use enscript or something iirc
19:50:32 <\oren\> oh nvm the command is called a2ps
19:50:55 <zzo38> The data I have is in a table that spans multiple pages. Using column-count for the body just causes it to omit all but the first page from the printout; it doesn't actually do what I want.
19:51:01 <\oren\> like a2ps --columns 2
19:51:16 <zzo38> The result needs to be HTML though.
19:51:20 <\oren\> it will output postscript that you can sent directly to the printer
19:51:35 <zzo38> No, I need the output to be HTML.
19:51:54 <wob_jonas> zzo38: wait, do you want a long table? or to break text to columns automatically?
19:52:40 <zzo38> It is a long table with many rows. I want it to fit the rows that don't fit on one page first on the top on the right of the page, and then once it reaches the bottom of the right part of that page, to start on the next page.
19:53:59 <zzo38> (Display of this document on continuous media is irrelevant; this document is only intended for paged media.)
19:54:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: so a long table in multiple columns. dunno, maybe try to read https://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/ and https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/column-width and stuff like that
19:55:46 <wob_jonas> zzo38: if you hadn't said that the output needs to be html, then I'd just suggest to load the html to some office program like libreoffice or ms office, then set the section to multiple columns there, and output an office document (not html) or the rendered printable version.
19:56:14 <wob_jonas> But that probably won't work well if you need html output.
19:56:15 <\oren\> well, you could probably write a program to process it into a series of tables, one on each page, some of which have twice as many rows
19:56:28 <\oren\> er, columns
19:56:54 <\oren\> twice as many columns, simulating a paginated, two-column formay
19:57:19 <zzo38> How much fit on one page will be unknown at compile time though!
19:58:54 <wob_jonas> zzo38: If you need html, then I say study those css documents, experiment with browsers and printing (to file); and if all else fails, as a fallback, print in single columns wasting half or more of the paper.
19:59:56 -!- jaboja has joined.
20:00:14 <zzo38> I can just use print preview to test it; I need not use up any paper to test it or print to files.
20:01:48 <wob_jonas> So it seems this wrote the files with 0.13 megabytes speed. That seems very wrong. Even the old SD card reader or anything else (operating system, motherboard, hard disk) shouldn't slow it down that much.
20:02:00 <wob_jonas> I wonder what I messed up with the test.
20:11:46 <wob_jonas> I'm testing the speed of reading back now.
20:19:36 <wob_jonas> I'm not quite sure, but my guess is that it's a problem with the operating system, and it's doing the IO inefficiently somehow.
20:19:42 <wob_jonas> I dunoo.
20:19:47 <wob_jonas> So maybe driver indeed.
20:22:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds).
20:25:36 <wob_jonas> no wait, I'm stupid
20:25:41 <wob_jonas> I'm completely stupid
20:25:46 <wob_jonas> like, I can't even do a division
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20:26:51 <wob_jonas> write speed was 7.6 mebibytes per seconds, which is not great, but much more realistic, read speed was 13.9 mebibytes per second, also not great but realistic.
20:31:09 <\oren\> Hmm, my utf handing code currently falls back to latin 1 in the event of error. Maybe it should fall back to different encodings depending on the kind of error
20:31:50 <\oren\> what encoding would be most likely to include long sequences of high-bytes
20:33:12 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:33:51 <wob_jonas> \oren\: how long? it could be utf-8, I think, when you encode long paragraphs of text in a cjk script.
20:34:36 <\oren\> I mean suppsoe you have two start bytes in a row? what encodign would be most likely to include that?
20:34:40 -!- sebbu3 has joined.
20:34:55 <zzo38> Now I cannot get "page-break-before: avoid" to work.
20:34:59 <\oren\> This is parsing utf-8 but I want it to be very permissive
20:36:18 <zzo38> It says "avoid" is not supported in Firefox.
20:36:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
20:36:58 <\oren\> hmm, maybe I'll figure that out later. for now, all invalid bytes to latin 1
20:37:46 <\oren\> it would be awesome if a single decoder could intelligently handle various encodings mixed
20:38:36 <zzo38> I think that you should not mix multiple encodings unless there are some kind of control codes or other commands in the file which specify where the encoding changes.
20:39:00 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:39:27 <zzo38> (Or in cases where the multiple encodings can't interfere, such as UTF-8 with ASCII, or UTF-8 with 7-bit ISO 2022.)
20:39:39 <\oren\> zzo38: but this comes up often when a web page has no encoding marked, and people take it as various ascii-based encodings.
20:39:39 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:39:48 <\oren\> then when multiple people post
20:40:06 <\oren\> their posts are encoded, each, in the encoding that was default on their system
20:40:30 <\oren\> hence the resultant comment section is full of mojibake
20:41:53 <zzo38> Then whoever reads/receives the files should be allowed to override the encoding (in Firefox this is possible in the View menu).
20:42:35 <\oren\> zzo38: the point is when this happens, you have a single file containing text on several encodings unmarked.
20:42:37 <wob_jonas> \oren\: yeah. I've seen (non-html) files at work that has xml tags, but contain both utf-8 and some byte encoding in different fields. has no encoding declaration.
20:45:38 <zzo38> Then it might help to add something that can be called from GreaseMonkey or Stylish to declare specified elements as encoding-contexts.
20:45:39 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
20:46:51 <zzo38> It would then allow each encoding-context to be set separately according to the user's setting, which can be either auto-detect or set manually, and the context menu can set the encoding within that context.
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21:33:19 <shachaf> zzo38: Where do you get the rule "d(x^2) = 2x dx"?
21:33:47 <shachaf> I mean, I know the answer. But what does it mean exactly?
21:34:07 <zzo38> It means what it is.
21:34:15 <shachaf> And what's the type of the argument to d?
21:34:49 <shachaf> Is it an expression that may have free variables?
21:35:36 <zzo38> I don't know?
21:35:51 <zzo38> See if Wikipedia or something else mentions?
21:35:52 <shachaf> Oh, but you said it the other day.
21:35:58 <shachaf> Which Wikipedia page?
21:36:04 <shachaf> Do you know what I would read to make sense of it?
21:36:11 <zzo38> One about differential calculus I suppose.
21:36:48 <zzo38> As far as I can tell the argument to d could be anything
21:37:45 <shachaf> Mysterious.
21:37:55 <shachaf> d(xy)=x dy + y dx, right?
21:38:06 <shachaf> how does it, like, know, man?
21:39:23 <zzo38> It knows by the rules of mathematics.
21:41:15 <shachaf> What's the value of this expression? let x = 5 in dx
21:41:54 <shachaf> I suppose the I should ask a major general about differential calculus.
21:42:17 <zzo38> I think it is zero, assuming x cannot change.
21:50:46 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[S.I.L.O.S]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49672&oldid=49670 * Rjhunjhunwala * (+8)
21:53:04 <shachaf> What about this: let x = 5 in d(x^2)/dx
21:53:06 <shachaf> 10?
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22:07:39 <zemhill__> kaoD.first: points -9.60, score 16.93, rank 20/47
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22:21:05 <\oren\> Argh, alpine is confusing when the timestamps are in different time zones
22:21:36 <\oren\> I sent an email and got the reply almost 3 hours before I sent it
22:23:29 <FreeFull> That does sound confusing
22:24:24 <\oren\> because the timestamp on the reply is in santa clara time, but my email's timestamp is in Toronto
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22:33:48 <\oren\> it's funny how we write codepoints in hex. octal would be more suitable for utf-8, and for utf-16, base 32 would be more suitable.
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22:38:42 <\oren\> in base-32, upper surrogates are all AV** and lower surrogates are all AW**
22:40:52 <kaoD> anyone here plays on zenhill? I'm trying to do nesting but failing at it
22:41:00 <kaoD> *zem
22:41:03 <FireFly> why would octal make more sense for UTF-8?
22:41:35 <shachaf> Someone said that octal is more suitable for x86 encoding.
22:41:43 <shachaf> But I didn't read the argument.
22:41:50 <\oren\> FireFly: because all start bytes are 03xx and all continue bytes are 02xx
22:42:18 <\oren\> each continue byte gives you 6 bits
22:42:28 <FireFly> shachaf: I could see that being the case, because at least Z80 is laid out in a way so that opcodes group neatly if you express them in octal
22:42:45 <FireFly> oh right
22:42:48 <FireFly> Yeah, I guess so
22:42:56 <\oren\> so if you have a code point in octal, you could just divide it into continue bytes easily
22:43:26 <\oren\> ttp://www.orenwatson.be/utf8guide.htm
22:43:32 <\oren\> http://www.orenwatson.be/utf8guide.htm
22:43:37 <\oren\> damnit
22:44:58 <fizzie> kaoD: A few, but none of them seem active right now.
22:45:13 <kaoD> :(
22:45:26 <\oren\> basically the encoding looks cryptic as all hell if you have your code point in hex, but in octal it looks trivial
22:45:36 <fizzie> I'm running the thing, but I'm not much of a BF Joust player myself.
22:47:52 <kaoD> fizzie: ah, perhaps you know how nesting works?
22:48:05 <kaoD> !ztest avoid (>)*9 ([ ([ ([ - ]>)*21 ]>)*21 ]>)*21
22:48:05 <\oren\> similarly, if you have an astral plane code point in base 32, then you just subtract B@@@, take the first two digits and add AV@@, and take the last two digits and add AW@@
22:48:05 <zemhill__> kaoD.avoid: points -11.90, score 11.11, rank 43/47
22:48:30 <kaoD> !ztest avoid (>)*9 ( ([ {-} ]>)*21 )%3
22:48:31 <zemhill__> kaoD.avoid: points -25.71, score 7.67, rank 46/47
22:48:49 <kaoD> they get different score, but they should be the same, I think
22:49:27 <fizzie> kaoD: There's no difference between * and % in the implementation, so the latter is interpreted as (>)*9 ( ([ {-} ]>)%21 )*3
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22:50:20 <kaoD> uh, any workaround? or is what I'm doing nonsensical?
22:51:30 <fizzie> I always find it very hard to reason about these things. You might or might not get what you want by having more {}s.
22:51:43 <fizzie> The rule of thumb is, {} always "binds" to the next "available" pair of ()s.
22:52:49 <kaoD> hmm, will think through it
22:52:50 <kaoD> thanks!
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22:54:05 <fizzie> (a(b{c{d}e}f)%2 g)%3 -> abbc abbc abbc d effg effg effg and so on.
22:55:36 <\oren\> fizzie: is there a standalone version of this preprocessor people can play with?
22:56:38 <fizzie> \oren\: There's no preprocessor, generally you'd end up with huge programs if you actually tried to expand all of it. Instead the (, {, } and ) are just non-time-taking jump instructions with a counter, and a ({-loop counts to a different direction than a })-loop.
22:56:56 <\oren\> I see
22:57:29 <fizzie> That's not to say you couldn't write a piece of code to expand things, and I think there are some BF Joust implementations that do it.
23:11:43 <boily> `? brainfuck
23:11:44 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
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23:22:22 <\oren\> Sghello!
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23:27:27 <myname> mklang?
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23:34:33 <boily> `? mklang
23:34:34 <HackEgo> mklang? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:34:57 <boily> kalloD, fizziello, he\\oren\, Sgello, mynamello.
23:35:17 <Robdgreat> ok, I give up. What does `? do?
23:35:35 <Robdgreat> considering at times the majority of the activity in here consists of it
23:35:36 <boily> Rellobdgreat! it queries the wisdom database!
23:35:55 <boily> you can take a formatted look at it in the PDF in the /topic ↑
23:36:10 <boily> `wisdom # for a random wisdom entry.
23:36:11 <HackEgo> cat: : No such file or directory \ //
23:36:14 <boily> `wisdom
23:36:15 <HackEgo> slwd//`slwd <wisdom name>//<sed script>
23:36:18 <boily> `wisdom
23:36:19 <HackEgo> perpetual motion machine//Perpetual motion machines came with FreeFull's phone. They were hallucinated by Slereah's lack of entropy.
23:36:23 <Robdgreat> `wisdom
23:36:24 <boily> ↑ something like that.
23:36:24 <HackEgo> wealhtheow//Wealhtheow is the barkeep in the tavern where the adventuring party of Beowulf meet at the start of the story.
23:36:40 <Robdgreat> `? brainfuck
23:36:40 <HackEgo> brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. The name is a euphemism for "beef". bf -c -t "+>+++++>+++" | mklang --array
23:37:06 <Robdgreat> does it only respond to authorized users, or does the emperor have no clothes?
23:37:19 <FireFly> `? wisdom
23:37:19 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? it started with, like, an ø?
23:37:34 <FreeFull> `wisdom
23:37:36 <HackEgo> natural transformation//A natural transformation is a transformation of something containing no chemicals.
23:37:43 <FireFly> Robdgreat: should respond to anyone
23:38:09 <Robdgreat> I see nothing
23:38:14 <Robdgreat> ohhhh
23:38:29 <Robdgreat> I think I ignored the bot last time I was in here >.>
23:40:45 <FireFly> Well
23:40:55 <FreeFull> That'd do it
23:48:00 <myname> poor hackego
23:52:04 <zemhill__> kaoD.avoid: points -11.90, score 11.11, rank 43/47
23:53:00 <boily> poutine time!
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23:56:10 <kaoD> !zjoust sorry >[]<(+)*100000
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23:56:12 <zemhill__> kaoD.sorry: points -12.07, score 15.98, rank 16/47
23:59:31 <zemhill__> kaoD.sorry: points -11.86, score 16.31, rank 16/47 (--)
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