←2016-09-17 2016-09-18 2016-09-19→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:05:00 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:07:14 -!- hppavilion[2] has joined.
00:08:20 <hppavilion[2]> De Morganmon: Gotta not catch not any of 'em all!
00:08:26 <hppavilion[2]> s/ all//
00:11:05 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:15:48 <shachaf> I made a good pun about De Morgan's laws once.
00:15:56 <shachaf> Unfortunately it's confidential.
00:16:22 <oerjan> just tell us the dual pun, it should only be nfidential
00:16:49 <shachaf> Unfortunately the best I can get is a contranfindential
00:16:52 <shachaf> pun
00:16:52 <hppavilion[2]> oerjan: Things that are nfidential are mandatory knowledge; the fact that you don't know it is a crime
00:17:05 <hppavilion[2]> `ping
00:17:05 <HackEgo> pong
00:17:35 <shachaf> hi callforjudgement
00:17:42 <shachaf> What is the origin of your nick?
00:17:59 <callforjudgement> shachaf: nomic
00:18:05 <wob_jonas> isn't it like a M:tG card?
00:18:14 <wob_jonas> `card-by-name Call for J
00:18:15 <HackEgo> No output.
00:18:28 <wob_jonas> `random-card call for j
00:18:29 <HackEgo> No card found.
00:18:32 <wob_jonas> huh
00:18:49 <wob_jonas> `random-card ju[dge].*ment
00:18:49 <HackEgo> Avacyn's Judgment \ 1R \ Sorcery \ Madness {X}{R} (If you discard this card, discard it into exile. When you do, cast it for its madness cost or put it into your graveyard.) \ Avacyn's Judgment deals 2 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures and/or players. If Avacyn's Judgment's madness cost was paid, it deals X damage di
00:18:52 <wob_jonas> `random-card ju[dge]*ment
00:18:53 <HackEgo> Radiant's Judgment \ 2W \ Instant \ Destroy target creature with power 4 or greater. \ Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Draw a card.) \ UL-C, VMA-C
00:18:55 <wob_jonas> `random-card ju[dge]*ment
00:18:56 <HackEgo> Iona's Judgment \ 4W \ Sorcery \ Exile target creature or enchantment. \ WWK-C
00:19:00 <wob_jonas> `random-card ju[dge]*ment
00:19:00 <HackEgo> Radiant's Judgment \ 2W \ Instant \ Destroy target creature with power 4 or greater. \ Cycling {2} ({2}, Discard this card: Draw a card.) \ UL-C, VMA-C
00:19:03 <callforjudgement> shachaf: http://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/rkeep/current_flr.txt : search for "991/17" to find the relevant part
00:19:03 <wob_jonas> `random-card ju[dge]*ment
00:19:04 <HackEgo> Trostani's Judgment \ 5W \ Instant \ Exile target creature, then populate. (Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of a creature token you control.) \ RTR-C
00:19:04 <hppavilion[2]> shachaf: iirc, callforjudgement = ais523
00:19:10 <shachaf> I know that.
00:19:13 <wob_jonas> `random-card ju[dge]*ment
00:19:14 <HackEgo> Council's Judgment \ 1WW \ Sorcery \ Will of the council -- Starting with you, each player votes for a nonland permanent you don't control. Exile each permanent with the most votes or tied for most votes. \ CNS-R, VMA-R
00:19:25 <callforjudgement> `random-card call for
00:19:26 <HackEgo> Call for Blood \ 4B \ Instant -- Arcane \ As an additional cost to cast Call for Blood, sacrifice a creature. \ Target creature gets -X/-X until end of turn, where X is the sacrificed creature's power. \ BOK-C
00:19:32 <wob_jonas> `random-card [^']..ju[dge]*ment
00:19:33 <HackEgo> Day of Judgment \ 2WW \ Sorcery \ Destroy all creatures. \ ZEN-R, M11-R, M12-R
00:19:43 <shachaf> There's a Magic: The Gathering set called Judgment.
00:19:54 <wob_jonas> shachaf: true
00:20:44 <callforjudgement> call for juegddment
00:23:13 <callforjudgement> shachaf: actually the story is a bit more complex than the nomic term, although it's based on that
00:23:45 <shachaf> I don't know the story for any of your nicks, actually.
00:23:48 <callforjudgement> BlogNomic used to have a method of making anonymous calls for judgement, and they displayed with "CallForJudgment" (US spelling) as the username
00:23:51 <shachaf> What was the third one?
00:24:11 <callforjudgement> I missed the US spelling though and added an extra e when I read it mentally
00:24:24 <shachaf> "judgment" is the US spelling?
00:24:30 <callforjudgement> when I started lurking the BlogNomic IRC channel (before I started playing), I decided I'd be anonymous
00:24:36 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I think "ais523" is because "ais" are the initials of his real names or something
00:24:36 <oerjan> . o O ( now we just need to know what scarf is for )
00:24:39 <callforjudgement> so I used callforjudgement as my nick
00:24:42 <callforjudgement> then things spiralled from there
00:24:58 <callforjudgement> wob_jonas: ais523 was an autogenerated username by a computer syste
00:24:59 <callforjudgement> *system
00:25:09 <shachaf> http://blog.dictionary.com/judgement-vs-judgment/ says that the British spelling has no e
00:25:13 <callforjudgement> however I believe it was configured to use my initials as part of the name
00:25:36 <callforjudgement> shachaf: I believe it's "judgment" when talking about a legal judgment, in the UK
00:25:50 <callforjudgement> but "judgement" when talking about someone's judgement (as in, how good they are at making decisions)
00:26:02 <wob_jonas> shachaf: the spelling is compicated, I never follow it, there's some version without a "d" too (is that only French, or English too?), that's why I used a wildcard
00:26:04 <shachaf> I see.
00:26:22 <shachaf> There's also the version where you're talking about what the judge meant.
00:26:27 <callforjudgement> wob_jonas: "jugement" is French
00:26:32 <myname> judgment doesn't make sense
00:34:17 <oerjan> the spelling in norwegian is simple hth: dom
00:34:51 <wob_jonas> oerjan: isn't that the black one, when judgement is the white one? or somethign
00:34:58 <shachaf> `? dom
00:34:59 <HackEgo> dom? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:35:02 <wob_jonas> `random-card doom
00:35:03 <HackEgo> Thraben Doomsayer \ 1WW \ Creature -- Human Cleric \ 2/2 \ {T}: Put a 1/1 white Human creature token onto the battlefield. \ Fateful hour -- As long as you have 5 or less life, other creatures you control get +2/+2. \ DKA-R
00:35:09 <wob_jonas> `random-card doom$
00:35:10 <HackEgo> Crown of Doom \ 3 \ Artifact \ Whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, it gets +2/+0 until end of turn. \ {2}: Target player other than Crown of Doom's owner gains control of it. Activate this ability only during your turn. \ C14-R
00:35:13 <wob_jonas> `random-card doom$
00:35:14 <HackEgo> Eye of Doom \ 4 \ Artifact \ When Eye of Doom enters the battlefield, each player chooses a nonland permanent and puts a doom counter on it. \ {2}, {T}, Sacrifice Eye of Doom: Destroy each permanent with a doom counter on it. \ C13-R
00:35:23 <oerjan> wob_jonas: no hth
00:35:26 <shachaf> oerjan: perhaps you should learn to play magic: the gathering hth
00:35:38 <wob_jonas> `random-card doom$(?!.*\n.*artifact)
00:35:39 <HackEgo> Crackling Doom \ RWB \ Instant \ Crackling Doom deals 2 damage to each opponent. Each opponent sacrifices a creature with the greatest power among creatures he or she controls. \ KTK-R
00:35:47 <wob_jonas> `random-card doom\nb
00:35:48 <HackEgo> Glyph of Doom \ B \ Instant \ Choose target Wall creature. At this turn's next end of combat, destroy all creatures that were blocked by that creature this turn. \ LE-C
00:35:57 <wob_jonas> `random-card doom\nbb
00:35:58 <HackEgo> No card found.
00:36:21 <oerjan> shachaf: no hth
00:36:25 <wob_jonas> ah, it's called
00:36:29 <wob_jonas> `random-card damn
00:36:30 <HackEgo> Choice of Damnations \ 5B \ Sorcery -- Arcane \ Target opponent chooses a number. You may have that player lose that much life. If you don't, that player sacrifices all but that many permanents. \ SOK-R
00:36:40 <wob_jonas> `random-card damn.*\n2bb
00:36:41 <HackEgo> Damnation \ 2BB \ Sorcery \ Destroy all creatures. They can't be regenerated. \ PLC-R
00:36:45 <wob_jonas> not doom
00:36:59 <shachaf> darnation
00:39:43 <oerjan> `? damnation
00:39:44 <HackEgo> damnation? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:41:07 <oerjan> `learn The Damnation was an evil empire of yore, until the dam no longer held and they got flooded.
00:41:10 <HackEgo> Learned 'damnation': The Damnation was an evil empire of yore, until the dam no longer held and they got flooded.
00:43:55 <hppavilion[2]> (Product is ×; n-ary product is ∏. n-ary coproduct is ∐; what is normal coproduct?)
00:44:07 <hppavilion[2]> (My font messed up ∏ and ∐
00:44:09 <hppavilion[2]> )
00:45:15 <shachaf> n-ary coproduct is Σ
00:45:35 <oerjan> `unidecode ∐
00:45:36 <HackEgo> ​[U+2210 N-ARY COPRODUCT]
00:45:42 <zzo38> If you like to learn rules of Magic: the Gathering cards, this is rules http://www.yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/ (this is an unofficial copy of the rules that includes hyperlinks)
00:46:18 <zzo38> And then you also have to learn the cards, too.
00:46:43 <oerjan> `unidecode ×
00:46:44 <HackEgo> ​[U+00D7 MULTIPLICATION SIGN]
00:46:44 <shachaf> You don't have to learn the cards.
00:46:53 <oerjan> `unicode ADDITION SIGN
00:46:55 <HackEgo> No output.
00:46:58 <oerjan> wat
00:47:14 <shachaf> `icode ∐
00:47:14 <HackEgo> ​[U+2210 N-ARY COPRODUCT]
00:47:26 <zzo38> Well, not all of the cards; only the ones in use. But unless they are very old cards, the current text is written on the cards themself.
00:47:29 <oerjan> `unicode [ADDITION SIGN]
00:47:32 <HackEgo> U+0000 <control> \ UTF-8: 00 UTF-16BE: 0000 Decimal: &#0; \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0001 <control> \ UTF-8: 01 UTF-16BE: 0001 Decimal: &#1; \ . \ Category: Cc (Other, Control) \ Bidi: BN (Boundary Neutral) \ \ U+0002 <control> \ UTF-8: 02 UTF-16BE: 0002 Decimal: &#2; \ \ Category: Cc (Other, C
00:47:46 <shachaf> Why are you expecting there to be an ADDITION SIGN?
00:47:48 <oerjan> wat
00:47:50 <shachaf> `unicode PLUS
00:47:51 <HackEgo> U+002B PLUS SIGN \ UTF-8: 2b UTF-16BE: 002b Decimal: &#43; \ + \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ES (European Number Separator) \ \ U+00B1 PLUS-MINUS SIGN \ UTF-8: c2 b1 UTF-16BE: 00b1 Decimal: &#177; \ ± \ Category: Sm (Symbol, Math) \ Bidi: ET (European Number Terminator) \ \ U+02D6 MODIFIER LETTER PLUS SIGN \ UTF-8: cb 96 UTF-16BE: 0
00:47:53 <zzo38> (Some very old cards are written very different than expecting of current rule)
00:48:04 <oerjan> shachaf: logic. oh hm.
00:51:28 * oerjan somehow cannot be bothered to look up the actual answer.
00:51:58 <shachaf> What actual answer?
00:52:15 <oerjan> to hppavilion[2]'s question.
00:52:19 -!- dos has joined.
00:52:38 <shachaf> Didn't I answer it?
00:52:40 <oerjan> no.
00:53:01 <shachaf> `welcome dos
00:53:04 <HackEgo> dos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:53:06 <shachaf> Why not?
00:53:08 <oerjan> you just rejected part of what he said, despite it being clearly correct hth
00:53:09 -!- dos has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
00:53:17 <shachaf> scow
00:53:23 <shachaf> `unwelcome dos
00:53:24 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unwelcome: not found
00:53:34 <hppavilion[1]> ...why don't we have `unwelcome?
00:54:04 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: we call that /kickban hth
00:54:15 <wob_jonas> hpp: because we have too many stupid welcome variants. including stupid ones I created.
00:54:15 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
00:54:26 <hppavilion[1]> `relcome dos
00:54:29 <HackEgo> dos: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
00:54:29 <shachaf> `dowg welcome
00:54:30 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523.
00:54:31 <HackEgo> 2015-05-24 <oerjan> sed -i \'s/on irc.*/on EFnet or DALnet.)/\' wisdom/welcome \ 2014-05-29 <oerjan> sed -i \'s!wiki/Main_Page!!\' wisdom/welcome \ 2014-03-16 <oerjan> revert \ 2014-03-16 <elliott> revert 1 \ 2013-11-01 <shachaf> sed -i \'s#http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page#<http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>#\' wisdom/welcome \ 2013-02-13 <ais52
00:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> `unrelcome dos
00:54:32 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: unrelcome: not found
00:54:45 <wob_jonas> `wälcåmä dos
00:54:46 <HackEgo> dos: Wälcåmä tå thä intärnatiånal hub for äsotäric programming language däsign and däplåyment! Får mårä infårmatiån, check out åur wiki: <http://äsålangs.årg/>. (Får thä åther kind åf esåtärica, try #esoteric ån ÄFnät år DALnet.)
00:55:19 <oerjan> `emoclew hppavilion[1]
00:55:20 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :]1[noilivapph
00:55:27 <oerjan> this is the closest hth
00:55:42 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:55:45 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: That works, but we're trying to unwelcome dos
00:55:52 <hppavilion[1]> `emoclew dos
00:55:53 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :sod
00:56:12 <wob_jonas> ``` wälcåmä dos | rev
00:56:13 <HackEgo> rev: stdin: Invalid or incomplete multibyte or wide character
00:56:28 <wob_jonas> ``` wälcåmä dos | LC_CTYPE=en_US.utf8 rev
00:56:30 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: (also, when it reversed it didn't flip the [ and ]. that's a problem imho)
00:56:30 <HackEgo> ​).tänLAD ro tänFE no cirätåse# yrt ,acirätosä fo dnik rähtå äht råF( .>/gro.sgnalåsä//:ptth< :ikiw ruo tuå kcähc ,noitamrofni ärom råF !tnämyålped dna ngisäd egaugnal gnimmargårp cirätose råf buh lanåitanretni eht åt ämocleW :sod
00:57:10 <ais523> `` locale
00:57:39 <ais523> wob_jonas: what's the difference between `` and ``` again? just that ``` is less likely to be malicious?
00:57:49 <fizzie> `` wälcåmä dos | rev
00:57:50 <HackEgo> ​).tänLAD ro tänFÄ no cirätåsä# yrt ,acirätåse få dnik rehtå eht råF( .>/grå.sgnalåsä//:ptth< :ikiw ruo tuo kcähc ,noitamråfni äråm roF !tnämyolpäd dna ngisäd ägaugnal gnimmargorp ciretåse råf buh lanåitanretni äht åt emåcläW :såd
00:58:07 <wob_jonas> ais523: ``` unsets the locale, and allows brace expansion iirc
00:58:13 <fizzie> I keep forgetting the point of ``` as well.
00:58:14 <wob_jonas> but I think now `` also allows brace expansion
00:58:16 <oerjan> wob_jonas: this is one of the things you'd use `` instead of ``` for hth
00:58:17 <ais523> ah
00:58:21 <hppavilion[1]> I didn't know there was ```
00:58:21 <wob_jonas> fizzie: unsets the locale
00:58:23 <ais523> unsetting the locale is probably not what you wanted to do in this case
00:58:49 <wob_jonas> oerjan: yes, it's obvious in retrospect, but I didn't remember what locale `` used and didn't want to mess up again, so I just set it explicitly
00:59:01 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: No, reverse wälcåmä is ämåcläw
00:59:16 <hppavilion[1]> (maybe we need a random `welcome chooser?)
00:59:38 <wob_jonas> hpp: wälcåmä is somewhat random
00:59:39 <ais523> yes but it also needs a randomly chosen name that's different each time you use it
00:59:49 <fizzie> FWIW, emoclew is not just welcome | rev.
00:59:59 <fizzie> It explicitly undoes the reversal of the parentheses.
01:00:16 <ais523> `which emoclaw
01:00:17 <HackEgo> No output.
01:00:22 <fizzie> With a "tr \(\)\<\> \)\(\>\<" step.
01:00:29 <olsner> that is, it reverses the parentheses?
01:00:33 <hppavilion[1]> `emoclew walrus()
01:00:35 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :()surlaw
01:00:44 <oerjan> `cat bin/emoclew
01:00:45 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr \(\)\<\> \)\(\>\<
01:00:56 <olsner> whereas rev (I guess) just outputs them in the original order so they're the wrong way around
01:01:00 <hppavilion[1]> But it doesn't fix [/] or {/}. Fail.
01:01:09 <fizzie> There are no such in the welcome.
01:01:23 <ais523> is there a Unicode property for being used in pairs with another character?
01:01:28 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: No, I mean a `rnwelc or somesuch that chooses one of our many fine stupid welcome variants
01:01:31 <ais523> together with a function for finding the other end of the pair?
01:01:35 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I think so, actually
01:01:37 <olsner> yeah, there's a list of pairs somewhere
01:01:45 <oerjan> `sled bin/emoclew//s,>,>\[\],;s,</<\]\[,
01:01:46 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 21: unterminated `s' command
01:01:47 <hppavilion[1]> At the very least there's a file
01:01:55 <olsner> e.g. bidi involves flipping of those in the correct way
01:02:02 <oerjan> `sled bin/emoclew//s,>,>\[\],;s,<,<\]\[,
01:02:05 <HackEgo> bin/emoclew//#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr \(\)\<][\>[] \)\(\>\<
01:02:07 <wob_jonas> ais523: I don't know, but I think there's a property for pairs of parenthesis that are reversed if used in rtl writing, so that an opening parenthesis ( is rendered shown backwards in rtl text
01:02:11 <oerjan> `emoclew hppavilion[1]
01:02:12 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :<1<noilivapph
01:02:17 <oerjan> oops
01:02:17 <hppavilion[1]> ...
01:02:30 <oerjan> `revert
01:02:43 <hppavilion[1]> ………
01:02:43 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:02:48 <hppavilion[1]> ……… ……… ………
01:03:10 <ais523> sgnalose.org is available, if anyone wants it
01:03:10 <wob_jonas> but it gets more complicated than that of course, with cjk punctuation that are rotated and shifted in vertical writing, possibly in different ways depending on whether the language is chinese or japanese; and with the question mark ? that gets mirrored in some rtl languages but not all
01:03:19 -!- Moonythedwarf has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
01:03:32 <wob_jonas> so eventually it's horribly complicated and you just leave it all for proper text rendering engines to handle it
01:03:44 <wob_jonas> it doesn't change semantics anyway, only visuals
01:04:04 <oerjan> `sled bin/emoclew//s,>,>\\[\\],;s,<,<\\]\\[,
01:04:06 <HackEgo> bin/emoclew//#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr \(\)\<\]\[\>\[\] \)\(\>\<
01:04:21 <oerjan> wtf is this
01:04:23 <oerjan> oh
01:04:25 <oerjan> `revert
01:04:27 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
01:05:09 <wob_jonas> oerjan: great, now add angle brackets and floor/ceil brackets too
01:06:02 <oerjan> `sled bin/emoclew//s,tr.*,tr '()<>[]{}' ')(><][}{',
01:06:04 <HackEgo> bin/emoclew//#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr '()<>[]{}' ')(><][}{'
01:06:17 <oerjan> wob_jonas: those are not legal in irc nicks hth
01:06:21 <oerjan> `emoclew hppavilion[1]
01:06:22 <HackEgo> ​(.tenLAD ro tenFE no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .</gro.sgnalose//:ptth> :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :[1]noilivapph
01:06:26 <wob_jonas> oh, you're only mirroring nicks?
01:06:26 <oerjan> finally
01:06:26 <wob_jonas> ok
01:06:40 <hppavilion[1]> ty
01:06:44 <oerjan> wob_jonas: well that and the welcome message
01:06:47 <wob_jonas> oerjan: mirror
01:06:50 <wob_jonas> \ to /
01:07:07 <oerjan> um...
01:07:08 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( When should ⋰ be used as punctuation⋰ )
01:07:13 <shachaf> The letters themselves aren't being mirrored.
01:07:20 <hppavilion[1]> Imma reboot my client
01:07:24 <hppavilion[1]> The font is wonky
01:07:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:07:27 <wob_jonas> and e to ɘ
01:07:34 <oerjan> wob_jonas: no.
01:07:47 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
01:07:51 <ais523> http://www.bash.org/?330261
01:07:54 <oerjan> we added brackets only because they look bad mismatched.
01:10:00 <ais523> hmm, now I'm surprised that the #3 post on bash.org doesn't seem to have spawned a meme
01:10:14 <ais523> you'd expect most of them to have done, and indeed, most of them did
01:10:20 <ais523> so that seems quite a way up
01:11:04 <hppavilion[1]> Huh, in the Masons, ∴ is used in S∴S∴A∴A∴s (Symbol Separated Abbreviations and Acronyms) rather than .
01:11:25 <hppavilion[1]> I move that #esoteric adopt that as a rule.
01:11:51 <ais523>
01:11:52 <ais523> hmm
01:12:06 <ais523> I need more compose key training
01:12:07 <ais523>
01:12:09 <ais523> there we go
01:15:19 <oerjan> `unicode (
01:15:22 <HackEgo> U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS \ UTF-8: 28 UTF-16BE: 0028 Decimal: &#40; \ ( \ Category: Ps (Punctuation, Open) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals) \ Character is mirrored
01:15:57 <oerjan> `unicode ?
01:15:59 <HackEgo> U+003F QUESTION MARK \ UTF-8: 3f UTF-16BE: 003f Decimal: &#63; \ ? \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
01:16:19 <oerjan> `unicode !
01:16:20 <HackEgo> U+0021 EXCLAMATION MARK \ UTF-8: 21 UTF-16BE: 0021 Decimal: &#33; \ ! \ Category: Po (Punctuation, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
01:16:54 <oerjan> doesn't look like ? is special there
01:17:43 <wob_jonas> oerjan: yes, that visual stuff is probably encoded only in the properties in the font, not in unicode properties.
01:18:29 <oerjan> wob_jonas: ( was special
01:20:50 <fizzie> The character properties include Ps/Pe (punctuation, open/close) and Pi/Pf (punctuation, initial/final quote).
01:22:05 <fizzie> And the other special thing that's there is the Bidi_Mirrored flag and its associated Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph "pointer".
01:22:46 <myname> `emocler
01:22:47 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: emocler: not found
01:22:52 <wob_jonas> fizzie: ok, I believe you
01:22:58 <fizzie> The latter one is: "Informative mapping for substituting characters in an implementation of bidirectional mirroring. This maps a subset of characters with the Bidi_Mirrored property to other characters that normally are displayed with the corresponding mirrored glyph. When a character with the Bidi_Mirrored property has the default value for Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph, that means that no other ...
01:22:58 <myname> i am disappointed
01:23:00 <wob_jonas> I don't really know about it, software does all that for me
01:23:04 <fizzie> ... character exists whose glyph is appropriate for character-based glyph mirroring. Implementations must then use other mechanisms to implement mirroring of those characters for the Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm."
01:23:13 <wob_jonas> as in, in case I ever want to render rtl text
01:23:26 <wob_jonas> which I don't often do
01:25:22 <fizzie> There's 182 pairs in BidiMirroring.txt, and it also contains comments listing 181 characters as having no appropriate mirroring character.
01:25:52 <ais523> oh, for a moment I thought you were going to say that ( was the only character that mirrored
01:26:00 <ais523> and Unicode hadn't got around to the other 181 yet
01:27:00 <oerjan> well there's not pointer in the above ( entry
01:27:03 <oerjan> *no
01:27:21 <fizzie> Python's unicodedata module has a function for the 'mirrored' attribute, but not one for the mirror glyph mapping.
01:27:23 <oerjan> i wonder why they consider ) not appropriate...
01:27:30 <oerjan> oh.
01:28:23 <oerjan> fizzie: oh wait, 182 pairs. i interpreted that similarly to ais523.
01:28:30 <oerjan> because 182 = 181+1
01:28:37 <fizzie> Yes, they're suspiciously close numbers.
01:28:47 <ais523> coincidences happen
01:30:10 <fizzie> http://sprunge.us/DjAA has the full list.
01:30:17 <zzo38> In my file with the custom cards now I hoped to have written all of the new rules involved properly. Please tell me if you think there is anything wrong or unclear or whatever. http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/magic_card/cards.txt
01:32:07 <ais523> `unidecode ༺
01:32:07 <HackEgo> ​[U+0F3A TIBETAN MARK GUG RTAGS GYON]
01:32:59 <ais523> what's the left-to-rightness of the line drawing characters?
01:33:59 <wob_jonas> ais523: ask lifthrasiir about that
01:34:21 <zzo38> If there is anything wrong with what I wrote, or if you have confirmed if it is OK, then please tell me.
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01:42:05 <fizzie> ais523: I think they're all character property "Symbol, Other" with bidi type "other neutrals" (ON).
01:42:35 <fizzie> The "characters with unusual properties" section of the standard says: "Many other characters behave in special ways but are not noted here, either because they do not affect surrounding text in the same way or because their use is intended for well-defined contexts. Examples include the compatibility characters for block drawing, --"
01:43:54 <ais523> wait, those are compatibility characters?
01:44:07 <ais523> someone go invent a language in which they're important for meaning
01:44:16 <ais523> and a natural language, not Funciton
01:45:10 <fizzie> ais523: "All of these characters are intended for compatibility with character cell graphic sets in use prior to 1990." From the "Box Drawing" (2500-257F) block character sheet.
01:45:45 <wob_jonas> "prior to 1990" hehe
01:46:10 <fizzie> I time travel every time I run aptitude to update things.
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02:18:38 <wob_jonas> `8-ball I don't need that, right?
02:18:40 <HackEgo> Ask again later.
02:18:46 <wob_jonas> ok ok
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03:20:07 <zzo38> Character cell graphic sets are still in use now; it isn't only prior to 1990 that they were used, although they were in use then, too.
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03:58:43 <oerjan> <shachaf> I typically use some sort of fabric as a substitute, though. <-- me too
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05:03:55 <hppavilion[1]> T h i si sa ne x a m p l eo fr e v e r s ee n g l i s hk e r n i n ga n ds p a c i n g
05:11:48 <pikhq> ai foa wan shinku zatto izzu teriburu.
05:18:15 <Cale> hppavilion[1]: nice convention
05:18:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brain-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49734&oldid=49051 * DJMcMayhem * (-996) Changed the sample division code to a newer, shorter, more robust version.
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05:37:05 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: What's that one?
05:37:17 <hppavilion[1]> `picketfence ai foa wan shinku zatto izzu teriburu.
05:37:18 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: picketfence: not found
05:45:40 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: That's transcribing English to Japanese to English.
05:45:53 <hppavilion[1]> Oooooh
05:46:12 <hppavilion[1]> As in, translate then anglicize?
05:46:25 <pikhq> No, no, just transcribing. No translation involved.
05:46:39 <shachaf> pikhq: Non-rhotic English?
05:46:58 <pikhq> Transcribe to fit Japanese writing (and phoneme set), and then perform standard romanization back.
05:47:32 <pikhq> shachaf: Transcriptions into Japanese script tend to be fairly non-rhotic because there is only one syllable-terminal consonant in Japanese.
05:48:03 <shachaf> Is "foa" better than e.g. "foru"?
05:48:10 <pikhq> Yes, it sounds closer.
05:48:27 <shachaf> pikhq: Do you compulsively transcribe Japanese text to English letters?
05:48:38 <shachaf> That would be romantic.
05:48:48 <pikhq> Not really. Just sometimes to be polite.
05:49:15 <shachaf> too late, i already made my pun
05:49:21 <pikhq> "foru" sounds pretty weird as a transcription of "for", because "ru" sounds nothing like a rhoticized vowel at all.
05:49:30 <shachaf> Fair enough.
05:50:02 <pikhq> (Japanese "r" is an alveolar tap)
05:51:30 <shachaf> I was at a Japanese store today.
05:51:35 <shachaf> I got some mysterious Japanese candies.
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05:56:27 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Was it there yesterday and will it be there tomorrow?
05:56:32 <pikhq> Spiffy.
05:57:23 <hppavilion[1]> "Most people recognize that when dealing with questions of physics, biology, chemistry, etc., they need to ask an expert, whereas with linguistics, many people don't even realize that there are experts to be asked. "
06:02:17 <hppavilion[1]> http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/sapir-worf_2620.jpg
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07:59:43 <\oren\> There's been a terrorist attack in manhattan
08:02:49 <int-e> Interesting, because officially they're talking of an "intentional act". 'De Blasio says "there is no evidence at this point of a terror connection" and there is no "credible and specific threat" to New York City.'
08:03:55 <\oren\> I view any event where someone plants bombs in trashcans as a terror attack.
08:04:45 <\oren\> It's certainly not a normal military tactic.
08:06:50 <\oren\> unless of course we want to go back to before the geneva conventon was a thing
08:07:30 <int-e> I tend to agree. I think what Blasio is saying is essentially that they haven't found any political background or larger conspiracy behind it.
08:07:48 <\oren\> right, they don't know who did it or why
08:08:32 <\oren\> apparently they've found several other pressure cooker bombs
08:08:53 <int-e> Anyway, it's really too early to be sure about anything.
08:09:42 <int-e> Nobody died so far, it seems... that's a small relief.
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08:54:45 <\oren\> apparently in the uk, a dumpster is called a "skip"
09:00:19 <Taneb> \oren\, I don't really use the word "dumpster" (am from the UK) but if what I know about the word is correct, a skip is an open dumpster generally used for rubble
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10:27:04 <hppavilion[1]> I think the ONLY good option in this election is that Hillary wins then promptly dies (not that I want her dead (please don't hurt me FBI), but she just happens to die (better would be resigning (but we all know that's never going to happen) or otherwise incapacitated)), leading Tim Kaine to ascend to the presidency
10:27:55 <hppavilion[1]> (I checked a Trump necrovictory scenario, but GOD I couldn't stand President Mike Pence)
10:28:39 <hppavilion[1]> Pence was against tobacco regulation because "2 out of every three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness"
10:28:52 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, only 33% of smokers are killed from it? That's practically none!
10:33:38 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], I don't really see what's so bad about Clinton, other than she's a bit too much of the status quo
10:34:04 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: I think she's just a bit of an idiot, a bit out of touch
10:34:49 <hppavilion[1]> (There was the controversy where she used 19 phones and said only 1; I don't think that she was lying, I think she just didn't realize that getting a new phone and loading the data from the previous one constitutes a new phone)
10:35:05 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], so, like every politician ever?
10:35:13 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Well... yeah, basically
10:35:30 <Taneb> In fact, probably like Tim Kaine?
10:36:06 <hppavilion[1]> Also, she was a Hawk on the Iraq war (apparently)
10:36:45 <hppavilion[1]> This is a crazy election; we know how one candidate stood on the war in Iraq because of how they voted, and where the OTHER one stood because of /an interview with Howard Stern/
10:38:24 <hppavilion[1]> She's also very... fabricated
10:41:42 <hppavilion[1]> She's against Snowden
10:44:14 <hppavilion[1]> She voted for the Patriot Act (then again, only one person didn't)
10:44:24 <hppavilion[1]> She's a fan of 'working with Silicon Valley to "prevent online radicalization."'
10:44:37 <hppavilion[1]> Which sounds pretty sinister
10:46:00 <hppavilion[1]> Her statements on Church and State look... vague
10:47:23 <hppavilion[1]> She wants to... jesus, she wants to make Flag Desecration a crime
10:48:55 <hppavilion[1]> And supports faith-based initiatives
10:51:13 <hppavilion[1]> Hillary opposed same-sex marriage in 2000
10:51:28 <hppavilion[1]> (but I guess her position could have changed?)
10:52:25 <hppavilion[1]> She promised to "appoint Native Americans to key positions in a number of federal departments and agencies", which is very affirmative action
10:54:32 <hppavilion[1]> After the Dallas police shootings, she "called on white Americans to empathize with black Americans" (we're talking the guy who murdered police here)
10:57:43 <hppavilion[1]> "Clinton said in 2016 that if elected president, she will fill half of her Cabinet with women, a move that would be historic in the United States." affirmative action
11:00:40 <hppavilion[1]> /r
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17:12:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Java']] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49735&oldid=21445 * TuxCrafting * (-2) (tm)™
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21:52:18 <Moonythedwarf> either ibm has gone _insane_ and is lieing to us, or they have given the world access to a 5 bit quantum computer: https://quantumexperience.ng.bluemix.net/qstage/#/editor
21:54:09 <nortti> latter
21:54:45 <nortti> oh, huh, you no longer need to request account? cool
21:56:28 <Moonythedwarf> ^^
21:56:31 <Moonythedwarf> nope
21:56:44 <Moonythedwarf> you can literally just set one up
21:57:04 <nortti> I signed up in the first (?) phase, had to wait three weeks to get approved
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23:30:22 <Phantom_Hoover> nortti, how do you know it's not just a simulation of on
23:30:24 <Phantom_Hoover> *one
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