←2016-09-16 2016-09-17 2016-09-18→ ↑2016 ↑all
00:03:49 <fizzie> Heh, there's a book (Bobaljik (2012), Universals in comparative morphology: suppletion, superlatives, and the structure or words) which (according to this quotation) claims that "no language has a synthetic comparative of inferiority", calling that the "lesslessness" generalization.
00:03:59 <fizzie> "This generalization is empirically the strongest of all the generalizations considered in this book. In none of the more than 300 languages examined for this study did anything remotely resembling a counterexample appear."
00:04:25 <oerjan> ah. sorry hppavilion[1] :P
00:04:33 <oerjan> THE UNIVERSE IS AGAINST YoU
00:04:37 <oerjan> *O
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00:05:56 <hppavilion[1]> ([engage reductio ad absurdum] While we're at it, we also need notations for: AM(X) = x; GM(X) = x; HM(X) = x; QM(X) = x. For all the inflections for f(X) = x, we need variants that replace = with >, <, ≤, ≥, ≪, ≫, ≠, ≈, ≉, ≡, :=, and ≟, and to express when x is within various deviations (including standard deviation, mean absolute deviation, and others) of f(X))
00:06:35 <hppavilion[1]> This includes things such as x ≪ min(X)
00:07:23 <izalove> "You don't have an app that can open this file (.c). Try searching Google Play for one that can. [cancel] [search]" what the actual fuck
00:07:39 <izalove> in the 70s, they didn't have problems to open fucking plain text ascii files
00:07:39 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: Which actual fuck in particular?
00:07:41 <izalove> and now i do
00:07:49 <izalove> hppavilion[1]: my fucking phone
00:07:51 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: What platform are you on?
00:07:52 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
00:08:03 <hppavilion[1]> Well it's probably because phones aren't meant for code
00:08:19 <hppavilion[1]> (Really, if you have a plain ascii editor at all you can probably coerce your phone to open the .c with that)
00:08:49 <izalove> i need to install an editor for plain text files
00:08:51 <izalove> on a phone
00:08:57 <izalove> that can send sms and email
00:09:02 <oerjan> we're living in the lowest common denominator.
00:09:08 <izalove> it already has plenty of text editing features
00:09:08 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, I forgot median(X) = x and mode(X) = x (and variants for =)
00:10:52 <oerjan> i was going to suggest harmonic mean but is that HM above
00:11:05 * oerjan wasn't getting that notation at the time
00:12:52 <izalove> what's your favorite text editor for android?
00:13:49 <izalove> i don't even know which features i need but i'd appreciate monospaced fonts
00:14:30 <hppavilion[1]> Not to mention WAM(X), TruncM(X), MR(X), TriM(X), etc
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00:14:41 <hppavilion[1]> (I've seen other weird ones like geometric-harmonic mean
00:14:44 <hppavilion[1]> Whoops
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00:16:45 <hppavilion[1]> (I've seen other weird ones like geometric-harmonic mean which is probably distinct from harmonic-geometric mean for some reason)
00:17:43 <zzo38> Sword of Legend {3} Legendary Artifact - Equipment ;; Equipped creature gets +1/+1 and is legendary. ;; {2}, {T}: Attach ~ to target legendary creature. That creature gains bands with other legendary creatures until end of turn. Activate this ability only if there are no other permanents with the same name as that creature. ;; Equip {2}
00:27:05 <izalove> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.xgouchet.texteditor 1. can edit text 2. ad free
00:27:09 <izalove> best text editor
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00:29:37 <izalove> my standards for text editors quality are a lot lower on phones
00:29:38 <fizzie> I've used one, but I forgot its name. I don't think I could give a very informative recommendation based on a sample size of N=1 anyway.
00:29:54 <fizzie> You could just install Emacs on it.
00:30:09 <izalove> i don't even know how to emacs on desktop
00:30:17 <fizzie> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zielm.emacs "If Emacs segfaults try changing font size. This is going to be fixed." The description starts well.
00:30:23 <izalove> LOL
00:32:23 <izalove> there are a bunch of vims
00:34:59 <izalove> bah whatever, i'll keep the one i just installed
00:35:21 <izalove> i'm not gonna program on this thing anyway
00:35:52 <wob_jonas> oerjan: technically, hungarian has four levels for adjective inflection, but the fourth is very rare
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00:36:07 <oerjan> wob_jonas: oh, what's that?
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00:37:30 <wob_jonas> oerjan: the fourth uses the circumfix "legesleg-...-bb" and has similar meaning as the superlative (which uses the circumfix "leg-...-bb") but used when you are very emphatic about the claim
00:38:36 <oerjan> legeslegjóbb inflection
00:38:50 <wob_jonas> nah, it's spelled "legeslegjobb"
00:38:57 <oerjan> darn
00:39:40 <shachaf> any bulgarians here?
00:40:42 <wob_jonas> but it's so rare that in primary school classes they usually just teach students that there are three degrees of adjectives, not four
00:54:31 <wob_jonas> Wow. A search box on a website that doesn't let me search for a list of words if the whole thing is more than 20 characters long. Crazy stuff. More words or longer words just make searches easier for the server, and 20 characters is a very low limit in practice.
00:56:21 <izalove> more words make it easier if you search for a and b and c and d
00:56:37 <oerjan> at least it allows you to list words. in theory.
00:58:54 <wob_jonas> for the record, this search form is http://www.munkaugyiforum.hu/kereses
01:00:24 <wob_jonas> it is otherwise not a bad webpage really\
01:00:50 <izalove> their english sucks
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01:11:47 <hppavilion[1]> You know, there is a holiday called "Satan Worship Day", but it's always on the fifth Monday in November
01:12:24 <zzo38> See if editing it in the inspector or whatever will make it accept more than twenty.
01:12:40 <izalove> hppavilion[1]: uh? november can have 5 mondays
01:12:57 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: I'm not sure it can...
01:13:00 <hppavilion[1]> Let me recalculate
01:13:03 <izalove> are you serious
01:13:08 <hppavilion[1]> I actually am
01:13:15 <izalove> lern2math
01:13:33 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: I did, but then I lernd2program and am now constantly vigilant for off-by-one errors
01:13:37 <hppavilion[1]> `? off-by-2 error
01:13:38 <HackEgo> off-by-2 error? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:13:44 <hppavilion[1]> `? off-by-two error
01:13:45 <HackEgo> off-by-two error? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:14:07 <oerjan> `wisdom two error
01:14:08 <HackEgo> That's not wise.
01:14:14 <oerjan> `wisdom 2 error
01:14:15 <HackEgo> That's not wise.
01:14:18 <oerjan> wat
01:14:34 <oerjan> `wisdom off?by
01:14:35 <HackEgo> off by two//An off by two error is what happens when you expect an off by one error but compensate in the wrong direction.
01:14:36 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I think "That's not wise" is the empty set of wisdom results
01:14:43 <izalove> HackEgo: november 2015 had 5 mondays
01:14:46 <izalove> err hppavilion[1]
01:14:46 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i know, fizzie just added that
01:14:47 <hppavilion[1]> If Nov 1 is Monday (best-case scenario), then 7 days later (Nov 8) is monday
01:15:06 <hppavilion[1]> 15 is monday 3, 22 is monday 4, and... 29 is monday 5
01:15:07 <oerjan> `` cal 11 2015
01:15:08 <HackEgo> ​ November 2015 \ Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa \ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 \ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 \ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 \ 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 \ 29 30
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01:15:18 <hppavilion[1]> OK, it's the 6th Monday then. There.
01:15:34 <izalove> that's not even interesting
01:15:47 <zzo38> It won't display so well on HackEgo; you can execute cal on your own computer though (if you have Linux, BSD, or Macintosh)
01:16:00 <hppavilion[1]> (In other news, in the BCS for 5th Monday, Satan Day is my birthday)
01:16:03 <zzo38> (If you have Windows then it is more difficult)
01:18:12 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I have windows and it wasn't difficult at all
01:18:13 <oerjan> well windows has its own calendar program
01:18:44 <hppavilion[1]> (yay for Cygwin and MinGW)
01:19:42 <oerjan> it was a bit clicky getting to nov 2015 though.
01:19:52 <oerjan> at least on first try.
01:21:12 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I'm generally against PC, but I honestly don't know what I think about "Happy holidays" and "Season's greetings". Not just that I don't dislike them for being too PC, but really I honestly prefer them )
01:21:56 <oerjan> and i cannot get to before 1917.
01:22:33 <zzo38> I myself don't care and hope they don't all say same things. However, "Season's greetings" isn't the words that makes much sense to me in such context, I think.
01:23:03 <oerjan> or after 2116.
01:23:40 <hppavilion[1]> (You know what? "Happy Holidays" is better. It's just better.)
01:23:47 <izalove> posix cal can go up to 9999
01:24:39 <zzo38> hppavilion[1]: Yes, it is better than seaon greetings, at least.
01:25:24 <izalove> gnu cal can go up to 2147483646
01:25:38 <hppavilion[1]> I accidentally asked cal for year 11, and it gave me it
01:26:07 <zzo38> Yes, it can do that.
01:26:22 <hppavilion[1]> (In contexts where you can assume a predominantly Christian audience- e.g. in an actual Church- "Merry Christmas" seems appropriate, but the same way Jews can say... whatever Jews say on their Winter Solstice Holiday in Jewy contexts and Muslims can say their whatever (is it Rashashama[sp] around then?) in Muslimy contexts)
01:26:39 <hppavilion[1]> ("Merry Holiday" is always fun)
01:27:02 <hppavilion[1]> (Also, Xmas is stupid. Clearly we should use Ksmas.)
01:29:06 <zzo38> "Xmas" is an abbreviation for "Christmas"; use it when you are low on space to write the letters. The "X" is an old abbreviation for "Christ".
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01:30:00 <oerjan> this other cal is from util-linux goes up to cal 12 2147483646
01:30:06 <zzo38> I think "Merry Christmas" is OK; it isn't only Christian anymore, anywys. Is good if you are Christian or not. And then, other is Yule, which is the proper Winter Solstice holiday; Christmas is a few days later. It is still good.
01:30:07 <oerjan> *+and
01:30:32 <zzo38> December 25 (Christmas Day) is a national holiday in Canada, not just a religious holiday, anyways.
01:30:41 <hppavilion[1]> (I suppose Antichrist day would be around the summer solstice...)
01:30:45 <oerjan> > showHex 2147483646 ""
01:30:47 <lambdabot> "7ffffffe"
01:31:09 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Yes, we all know where the X came from.
01:31:36 <zzo38> Maybe, if there is such things as "Antichrist day" which I don't think so
01:32:09 <zzo38> (But, you could make it up)
01:35:01 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: Wait, right, it's not "Antichrist day"; it's "Antichristblakmas"
01:36:39 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i don't remember muslims having a specific winter holiday. the muslim calendar isn't solar so the main events shift around the year. however some will celebrate ne[wv]r[ou]z around spring equinox (it's not really a muslim holiday).
01:37:18 <izalove> https://www.livecoding.tv/
01:37:33 <hppavilion[1]> Nevruz/Nevroz/Newruz/Newroz
01:41:34 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i missed several spellings
01:42:15 <oerjan> "Merriam-Webster (2006) recognizes only the spelling "Nauruz" (and a contestant in the final session of the 2006 Scripps National Spelling Bee in the United States, Allion Salvador, was disqualified on that basis)."
01:42:23 <hppavilion[1]> Crap
01:42:46 <oerjan> i'm reading this on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowruz hth
01:43:42 <hppavilion[1]> So probably n[ae][uvw]r[ou][zs]? (the [zs] is just a guess because, let's be honest, it's definitely an option)
01:44:40 <hppavilion[1]> ...woooow. Someone was disqualified in the Scripps National Spelling Bee for spelling "Nauruz" wrong. Because the spelling they used was different
01:44:48 <hppavilion[1]> Spelling Bees are a stupid competition.
01:45:16 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: *cough*
01:46:03 <oerjan> oh there's a longer list of spellings in the infobox.
01:49:42 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: If Antichrist Day is around the summer solstice, than Midsummer (or the Feast of Saint John) is Antichrist Day.
01:49:49 <pikhq> Therefore, Saint John is the Antichrist!
01:50:32 <oerjan> glad you sorted that out
01:51:09 <shachaf> am i the antichrist
01:52:08 <pikhq> Are you John?
01:52:23 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: No, Antichristblakmas is the /birth/ of the antichrist in the year 1 AHN
01:53:08 <pikhq> St John's feast day celebrates his birth.
01:53:18 <hppavilion[1]> Nothing to do with Saint John (whose feast is on 27 december)
01:53:41 <pikhq> Sorry. St John the Baptist's feast day.
01:53:51 <pikhq> Let's be specific.
01:55:12 <hppavilion[1]> It's actually on June 25, which is for Presentation of the Augsburg Confession
01:55:31 <hppavilion[1]> (at least, it is in the One True Denomination, which is Lutheranism)
01:57:02 <hppavilion[1]> ...so according to Lutheranism, Antichristblakmas coincides with the commemoration of their founding... OH MY GOD LUTHERANS ARE SATANISTS
01:57:10 <hppavilion[1]> *cheers*
02:18:19 <hppavilion[1]> (Is a moon of a dwarf planet considered a dwarf moon?)
02:22:43 <shachaf> pikhq: What do you think of CA Labor Code §2870?
02:22:47 <shachaf> p. good huh
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02:49:57 <pikhq> Except when certain companies go "yeah, but we're in literally every business so fuck you"
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02:59:02 <shachaf> Certain companies.
02:59:16 <shachaf> But imagine that in other states you don't even get that?
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03:58:58 <hppavilion[1]> Has 538 ever managed to influence itself?
03:59:43 <oerjan> wat
04:00:32 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. it predicts that a candidate everyone hates- let's call him Rumpt- has a 40% chance of winning. Someone shares it, all the people who are against Rumpt and in favor of a marginally less objectionable candidate- let's call her (as she could be the first female president) "Billary"- freak out and resolve to vote when they weren't planning on it
04:00:48 <hppavilion[1]> They participate in polls, thus changing 538's value
04:01:18 <shachaf> poles usually can't vote in us elections
04:01:24 <shachaf> unless they're polish-american, of course
04:02:13 <shachaf> but even they are discriminated against
04:02:16 <shachaf> they have to pay the pole tax
04:02:22 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: No, the poles are being participated /in/, not voting themselves
04:02:48 <hppavilion[1]> No, Pole taxes are only for Alaskans and people born in may
04:03:07 <hppavilion[1]> Nothing to do with Poll Land
04:06:38 <hppavilion[1]> Lo, have I outpunned even the great shachaf emself?
04:11:51 <oerjan> where is boily when you need him.
04:13:38 <oerjan> good first sentence in today's wikipedia featured article blurb
04:15:02 <shachaf> what about the first sentence in today's featured esolang blurb
04:15:23 <oerjan> it's a bit stale
04:16:08 <shachaf> Who was that famous art forger?
04:16:37 <shachaf> Oh, no, he forged text maybe?
04:17:22 <shachaf> Ireland?
04:17:46 <shachaf> The one whose forgeries were so famous that they were in demand, so he forged his own forgeries to sell them.
04:17:57 <oerjan> never heard of.
04:19:21 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_Shakespeare_forgeries
04:20:51 <oerjan> the one forgerer i remember reading about is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_van_Meegeren
04:26:41 <shachaf> forgerer?
04:26:50 <shachaf> one who does forgery, i guess
04:28:51 <oerjan> *-er
04:29:12 <shachaf> which one twh
04:29:23 <oerjan> idts
04:29:24 <shachaf> oerjan: it would be unambiguous if you wrote -re hth
04:29:29 <oerjan> *+n
04:29:31 <hppavilion[1]> Reading my school & school district handbook
04:29:41 <shachaf> oerjan: and then you would eeven teach people about adjunctions
04:29:45 <hppavilion[1]> In the section on what you can't discriminate against, it doesn't mention gender identity
04:29:51 <hppavilion[1]> Are you pondering what I'm pondering?
04:30:07 <oerjan> no, fortunately.
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04:30:18 <pikhq> hppavilion[1]: Nope, I'm just becoming grumpy.
04:30:25 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Oh
04:30:50 <hppavilion[1]> Well I'm pondering locating the Superintendent's email and sending them a polite notification that they might want to fix that
04:31:07 <pikhq> Ah! Reasonable.
04:31:21 <shachaf> is gender in the list
04:31:41 <pikhq> It might not work, but a polite email is likely to effect change with minimal fuss. Unless they're transphobic, which is not implausible.
04:31:46 <oerjan> just make it identity alone and be done with it.
04:32:33 <oerjan> . o O ( is a transphobic someone who is born without phobias but wants to change it... )
04:32:51 <\oren\> something insane is going down on reddit
04:33:11 <oerjan> \oren\: so nothing out of the ordinary?
04:33:32 <\oren\> the main subreddit for the trump campaign was compromised to some sort of monetary scam
04:33:57 <oerjan> huh
04:34:17 <\oren\> then when people reacted badly, the mods started banning people and deleting posts that talked about it
04:34:29 <shachaf> but why would you care about reddit
04:34:33 <oerjan> all the mods?
04:34:41 <\oren\> some of them at least
04:35:00 <\oren\> and they unmodded at least 50 people to prevent them from stopping it
04:37:58 <\oren\> very interesting to observe a popular revolt like this
04:40:14 <oerjan> well the oldest mod has ultimate power unless admins intervene, which they almost never do last i heard
04:40:55 <oerjan> of course if this blows up _enough_, they might have to reconsider that.
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04:41:46 <oerjan> i remember replacing the disappeared mod of /r/physics took ages.
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04:42:07 <oerjan> (it had only one)
04:44:54 <\oren\> https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/535jkk/about_what_happened_tonight/ <- this is the damage control post after they removed the disaster posts
04:49:13 <oerjan> ok so just extremely bad judgement, not a hostile takeover. whatever.
04:50:19 <\oren\> well, I dunno. the site they were promoting: www.nimbleamerica.com looks shady as hell
04:50:58 <\oren\> looks to me like a hostile takeover but for monetary rather than political gain
04:51:03 <oerjan> it would of course be funny if the top mods of that subreddit started it just to troll everyone
04:51:24 <\oren\> true
04:51:53 <oerjan> (it = the subreddit)
04:52:09 <\oren\> the degree of crazy crap on reddit is why I stopped posting on any subreddits and relurked
04:53:23 <\oren\> somehow the reddit system seems wired to produce hilarious, trainwreck drama
04:54:03 <pikhq> Well yeah, it gives a lot of people little fiefdoms with near-absolute power within.
04:54:24 <pikhq> That not *every* subreddit is a trainwreck is a testament to the capability of humans to be good.
04:54:53 <pikhq> ... That some subreddits are spectacular trainwrecks, of course, is just evidence that "capable" does not imply "will".
04:54:59 <\oren\> hehehehe
04:56:41 <\oren\> on the other hand one of the reasons I still lurk is in hope of seeing crazy trainwreck drama
04:56:57 <\oren\> so some good comes of the evil
05:05:29 <\oren\> drama is funny when you're not at all involved
05:12:55 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: They have a doctorate, so she probably isn't an asshole
05:13:46 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It is, but just "gender", no mention of whether it conforms (so you could, for example, harass them by making a point of treating them as masculine- not just like a slip-of-the-tongue thing, but REALLY making a point out of it)
05:13:59 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: It's surprisingly reasonable as far as things-done-by-me go
05:14:24 <shachaf> @ask conal For computing [x^i | i <- [0..n]] (which you used for DFT), can you do better than O(n) work and O(log n) depth using repeated squaring?
05:14:24 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
05:16:22 <shachaf> conforms to what
05:21:18 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Basically, the cis-trans dichotomy
05:22:47 <hppavilion[1]> cis is "is gender G outside and says they're gender G", trans is "is gender G outside but says's they're gender H"
05:23:15 <pikhq> Because "cis-" is the opposite of "trans-".
05:25:59 <\oren\> cis literally means, on this side of
05:27:04 <\oren\> for example, the province of Gallia in roman empire was divided into cisalpine gaul, on the same side of the alps as italy, and transalpine gaul, on the opposite side
05:29:19 <\oren\> so transgender would mean that someone's gender is on the opposite side from their sex
05:31:53 <zzo38> What happen if someone says they are actually more than one gender or not at all?
05:32:03 <\oren\> another example is cis and trans isomers of chemicals like dichloroethene
05:33:15 <pikhq> zzo38: The first would be something non-binary or gender fluid, the latter is agender.
05:33:36 <pikhq> Or bigender or pangender for the first...
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05:54:27 <hppavilion[1]> zzo38: I think someone who identifies as agender would be classified as transgender, but in the flimsy sense, because their gender is like an atheist's religion
05:55:20 <hppavilion[1]> New universally-acceptable greeting: "Salutations, fellow lifeform"
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05:59:26 <oerjan> HOW DARE YOU CALL ME ALIVE
05:59:35 <oerjan> BRAINS
06:12:29 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Zombies count as a lifeform
06:13:24 <hppavilion[1]> They're under the continent "Athanata"
06:13:39 <hppavilion[1]> (below which is empires AKA domains, then kingdoms and it's Katy Perry from there)
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06:50:19 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, one of the recently captured FBI most wanteds had the same birthday as me
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07:00:43 <hppavilion[1]> (I think I know somebody for whom http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/2013-04-02 would be perfectly reasonable)
07:04:41 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I wonder if there's a charity that I can donate to that exists for the soul purpose of rechariting my money to another charity so I don't have to figure out what it is )
07:04:49 <hppavilion[1]> s/soul/sole/
07:05:44 <pikhq> Optimal Charity* (donations to Optimal Charity are inherently suboptimal, we can only guarantee optimality given the assumption you give money to us instead of our donation targets directly)
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07:24:19 <hppavilion[1]> I'm honestly curious if https://xkcd.com/545/ has ever been tried
07:24:25 <hppavilion[1]> Any bored millionaires?
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07:47:22 <hppavilion[1]> "Who milks the milkman" -- Randall Munroe
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07:58:10 <int-e> ah, beautiful. '[1050080.761768] Read-error on swap-device (254:1:3016)'
07:59:02 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Do astronauts have to be paid minimum wage for a 24/7 work week? )
08:03:43 <hppavilion[1]> (In fact, they would have to be paid minimum wage for 40 of those hours, PLUS 1.5* minimum wage for each additional hour)
08:17:10 <int-e> (CaC again. No important data was at risk at any time.)
08:22:53 <hppavilion[1]> I'm reading a subpoena.
08:23:00 <hppavilion[1]> The one to google
08:23:46 <hppavilion[1]> It says that "And" and "Or" don't mean "And" and "Or" every time; they are treated, in each instance, either disjunctively or conjunctively in such a way that creates the broadest request possible
08:40:37 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I think astronauts are probably entitled to more given their substantial skills and their dangerous workplace.
08:40:51 <hppavilion[1]> I SUMMON ENTROPY
08:40:55 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Well yeah, that too
08:41:04 <hppavilion[1]> But what if, like, it was Ted the Shitty Astronaut
08:41:14 <izalove> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKFuXETZUsI so coooooool
08:41:21 <izalove> i love it i love it i can't wait
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08:41:34 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: I get most of my Kerbals from rescue missions
08:42:01 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: And how much are they paid?
08:42:20 <hppavilion[1]> Have you asked your Kerbal lawyers about the laws of the USK?
08:42:50 <hppavilion[1]> (Weird how there are no other Kerbals on the entirety of the pla- oh god. Is this why you're trying to get to space? To escape a dying world?)
08:44:46 <\oren\> update: the nimble america subreddit was hacked and destroyed in a counterattack
08:45:48 <\oren\> mod/user warfare continues to rage
08:54:21 <hppavilion[1]> What exactly IS nimble america?
08:54:35 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I wonder how long it is until we have computers that can write novels )
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08:59:39 <hppavilion[1]> I heard somebody at school today talking about how the new "iPhones" are blowing up while charging
08:59:42 <hppavilion[1]> I wept for humanity
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09:03:03 <\oren\> i thought it was samsung?
09:04:15 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yeah
09:04:20 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: That's why I wept
09:04:33 <hppavilion[1]> Because they don't realize that 80% of smartphones aren't iPhones
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09:12:46 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], they could just be mixed up
09:13:34 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: You don't seem to understand the stupidity of the people around me
09:13:41 <hppavilion[1]> (Also, I tried to explain and he ignored me)
09:15:37 <hppavilion[1]> In 30 years, Trump speeches will be mandatory viewing in college classrooms
09:16:02 <hppavilion[1]> Specifically, classes about psychiatry, during the day when they talk about narcissism
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09:31:09 <\oren\> when will george w bush become recognized as the historic first he was
09:31:29 <\oren\> the first president to be mentally impaired
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10:20:03 <hppavilion[1]> Can centaurs be made with other animals?
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10:20:28 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: No, we had earlier presidents, but they usually lost it after
10:20:40 <izalove> hppavilion[1]: how furry are you today?
10:20:46 <hppavilion[1]> izalove: Not particularly
10:20:55 <hppavilion[1]> I just heard Stephen Colbert say something funny about giraffes
10:21:04 <hppavilion[1]> (I haven't looked at any furry porn all day...)
10:21:15 <hppavilion[1]> (Zebrataurs would, of course, have to be a thing. They probably are already.)
10:21:59 <hppavilion[1]> The closest extant relative to the Centaur is the Bonobotaur
10:22:23 <hppavilion[1]> Giraffes are really just Snaketaurs
10:22:37 <izalove> several thousands results for zebrataur on google
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17:08:08 <zzo38> Do you like this? "Target opponent chooses artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, or sorcery. Search your library for a card of that type, reveal it, put it into your hand, and then shuffle your library."
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18:37:29 <shachaf> zzo38: Sounds interesting.
18:37:55 <shachaf> How much would it cost?
18:40:33 <zzo38> I don't know. What amount would you think?
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19:31:37 <zzo38> Card I made up called "Zeux Agem" now has "bands with other creatures that have flying and power less than 3".
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20:36:08 <shachaf> mega zeux
21:08:01 <myname> i have basic brewing in my df-like \o/
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21:20:08 <hppavilion[1]> (Perhaps the word "Schadenfreude"- which is originally the German word for pleasure at other people's misfortune ("harm-joy") but has since been adopted into fringe English- should be englicized in spelling to make it less confusing for native english speakers)
21:22:45 <hppavilion[1]> ("inenvy"- inverse envy- would also be an acceptable adaptation that doesn't require remembering how to German it)
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21:30:23 <wob_jonas> int-e: a failing swap device... ouch. did you reboot and discontinue using it for swap?
21:30:52 <wob_jonas> int-e: also, what sort of device is it? spinning hard disk, solid state disk, network?
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22:12:55 <fizzie> wob_jonas: I'm about 87% sure that was CloudAtCost hardware at work again.
22:14:21 <fizzie> int-e: The esolangs.org VPS has stopped doing those "BUG: soft lockup - CPU#1 stuck for 21s" messages, maybe that's why HackEgo has anecdotally felt a bit speedier recently.
22:14:56 <fizzie> (Oh, CaC was even confirmed, I missed that line.)
22:20:23 <wob_jonas> fizzie: what's CloudAtCost?
22:22:35 <fizzie> A VPS provider with a one-time-fee model.
22:22:36 <wob_jonas> What material of oven mitts (gloves for heat insulation) do you use? Fabric, silicone, or dragon skin?
22:23:00 <fizzie> Fabric; somehow I just can't trust silicone.
22:24:15 <wob_jonas> I currently use silicone ones, but I'm considering to buying ordinary fabric ones.
22:24:31 <zzo38> I use fabric oven mitts because that works good and it is what I have.
22:24:46 <zzo38> :I wrote how I think a very simple API to make JavaScript addon in C might ought to be: http://sprunge.us/ZXPA Hopefully with help it can be made up in a reasonable way. Do you like this?
22:24:50 <shachaf> I have no oven mitts, but I should.
22:25:02 <shachaf> I typically use some sort of fabric as a substitute, though.
22:25:08 -!- sparr has joined.
22:25:42 <sparr> I'm sitting here at the Roguelike Celebration (200 person conference in San Francisco) and am inspired to get esolang folks and code golfers together for a conference
22:26:07 <wob_jonas> sparr: a roguelike celebration? sounds nice
22:26:20 <sparr> yeah, it's fun. roguelike devs and designers, lots of players
22:26:21 <fizzie> wob_jonas: Until you have to start eating corpses to stay in character.
22:26:42 <wob_jonas> sparr: how would that work? somehow more than half of the esolang people are in Europe
22:26:55 <wob_jonas> fizzie: you can eat vegetarian corpses, that is, dead plants
22:27:04 <sparr> wob_jonas: well, if it worked, maybe there could be other such events around the world. that's a big goal, though
22:27:09 <wob_jonas> or cooked corpses
22:27:20 <sparr> it all starts with 50 people getting together somewhere for the first time
22:27:42 <fizzie> I don't think we've managed to get even 5 people on this channel together at any one time.
22:27:49 <sparr> I'd like to fix that :)
22:27:59 <sparr> there are more esolang users at this roguelike conference than anywhere else I've been
22:28:19 <sparr> I met someone who used my language, and found it without having known me before! (huge ego boost)
22:29:02 <fizzie> atehwa once hosted an esolang seminar at their university, I think. (I may be mixing up who it was.)
22:29:02 <zzo38> I would hope to write a roguelike game in JavaScript. I can write the terminal interfacing library and possibly involving to call stty as an external program to make the terminal acting properly for this purpose. Possibly even multi-players mode can be added on to
22:30:32 <zzo38> Writing the serialization is the other thing to do, but I think I have the reasonable ideas about how to do that.
22:33:31 <wob_jonas> zzo38: the hard part of roguelike is the game design (figuring out the rules so that you get a good game) and interface design
22:35:39 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, that is some of it too, and much of that stuff I have not thought of yet. I can think of much of the user interface stuff already though; actually even to have a configuration file in JavaScript that can be used to customize the user interface.
22:36:27 <zzo38> (Using such scripts can be used to add macros, to filter messages, etc.)
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22:45:29 <hppavilion[1]> Oh my god
22:45:34 <hppavilion[1]> I can't do this precalc homework
22:45:40 <hppavilion[1]> I have integrity
22:45:57 <hppavilion[1]> (It wants me to look at the graph and guess what x the extrema are at)
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22:55:06 <hppavilion[2]> God I hate it when people invent punctuation, copyright it, and say it's for general use
22:55:12 <hppavilion[2]> If it was for general use, it wouldn't be copyrighted
22:55:19 <hppavilion[2]> I shouldn't have to pay to write
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22:57:24 <zzo38> I agree with you; to copyright punctuation doesn't make sense.
22:58:10 <zzo38> About this still I am unsure what mana cost or type: "Target opponent chooses artifact, creature, enchantment, instant, land, or sorcery. Search your library for a card of that type, reveal it, put it into your hand, and then shuffle your library." Do you have any better ideas perhaps?
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23:06:51 <ais523> zzo38: does it omit planeswalker for a reason?
23:07:37 <wob_jonas> ais523: yes, that's so you don't have to build a deck that even has a planeswalker that helps your combo. it's hard enough with those six types.
23:07:40 <zzo38> ais523: Yes.
23:07:44 <ais523> I can see why it omits scheme and plane and vanguard and conspiracy, though
23:07:49 <zzo38> It is for the reason wob_jonas mentioned.
23:07:51 <wob_jonas> (it would be even worse with tribal)
23:08:10 <ais523> I think zzo38's ability would work best as a triggered ability on a creature or enchantment
23:08:22 <ais523> if I place it on a sorcery, it's too weak even at B (which is the correct color)
23:08:26 <wob_jonas> ais523: like a magpie? I dunno
23:10:04 <wob_jonas> ais523: wait, why is B the correct color? isn't this a blue ability like that of Gifts Ungiven?
23:10:35 <zzo38> But I did think of another thing too; if it could have a kicker that allows you to reject your opponent's first choice and force them to pick a different type instead; it only works once though.
23:11:03 <ais523> wob_jonas: gifts ungiven is weird, you can make a case for basically anything to be U
23:11:14 <ais523> but arguably gifts ungiven is B too
23:11:33 <wob_jonas> ais523: well ok, it's not really out of place in black either
23:11:39 <ais523> (compare to fact or fiction, which is definitely blue)
23:11:48 <wob_jonas> but I don't really like this ability at all, anywhere. it needs to be rethought.
23:13:08 <zzo38> Another alternative to a triggered ability would be an activated ability.
23:13:24 <ais523> if it was a tap ability that might work
23:13:40 <ais523> spammable abilities that dig through your library tend to be hard to balance though
23:13:56 <wob_jonas> eww no. that would cause you to search and shuffle every turn, or more often. can't be enjoyable.
23:14:04 <zzo38> Yes; its cost can have other stuff too though other than just tap
23:14:52 <ais523> yes, I just meant including tap, not exclusively tap
23:14:53 <zzo38> Such as, mana, discarding, sacrificing, removing counters, etc
23:15:26 <ais523> huh, I just realised that following the color pie rules it's also legal in green (although that wouldn't be most people's first choice)
23:15:35 <wob_jonas> zzo38: even so. if you use an activated ability, unless it's a sacrifice this or when this dies ability, it will likely cause the ability to be used repeatedly. a magpie trigger (whenever this deals combat damage to an opponent) would be better.
23:15:43 <ais523> green can search for a creature or land (or subset of that), and the opponent can always choose to make it search for that rather than something else
23:15:51 <ais523> so the ability's strictly worse than something green can do
23:16:01 <wob_jonas> the advantage of the magpie trigger is that it's more interactive, most decks the opponent plays will have a way to fight it.
23:17:00 <wob_jonas> ais523: um, how easily can green search for an arbitrary creature (as opposed to some more restricted set)?
23:17:12 <wob_jonas> and especially for a creature and land
23:17:18 <zzo38> Other modification to what I wrote also might be done, maybe
23:17:31 <ais523> wob_jonas: it's fairly /expensive/ to search for a creature unrestricted, but not out of pie
23:17:36 <ais523> tooth and nail is the most dramatic example
23:18:07 <wob_jonas> oh it's not as expensive as tooth and nail I think
23:18:41 <wob_jonas> tooth and nail is expensive because it can both search and piper expensive creatures, and those two together are very dangerous
23:19:00 <hppavilion[2]> "Elder" is an irregular form of "Older"
23:19:02 <wob_jonas> green used to have the piper ability back when expensive creatures without mana costs didn't yet exist
23:19:06 <hppavilion[2]> I need a similar word for "Younger"
23:19:18 <wob_jonas> it even had a piper specifically for elves I think, when all elves were tiny
23:19:20 <myname> Yenger
23:19:22 <myname> easy
23:19:26 <hppavilion[2]> myname: Yeah, probably not
23:19:34 <hppavilion[2]> (If there is none, I've made up "Inggere" and will now use it forever)
23:19:51 <hppavilion[2]> Is there any common word paired?
23:19:53 -!- hppavilion[2] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
23:19:59 <wob_jonas> or did I only dream that? hmm
23:20:30 <hppavilion[1]> s/Inggere/Ynggere/
23:20:52 <ais523> wob_jonas: I can't think offhand of a creature with no mana cost that's powerful to reanimate
23:21:13 <ais523> if it were green, you could do it with Green Sun's Zenith (which is sufficiently powerful that it's banned in Modern)
23:21:25 <wob_jonas> ais523: I'm not thinking of no mana cost
23:21:26 <ais523> Dryad Arbor has no mana cost but it's not exactly the most broken thing to cheat into play
23:21:44 <wob_jonas> but pipering creatures with large mana cost for a fixed cost
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23:22:15 <callforjudgement> wob_jonas: ah right
23:22:37 <callforjudgement> if you believe Un-sets to be authorities on colour pie, there's always Timmy
23:22:39 <callforjudgement> who is almost literally that
23:22:52 <wob_jonas> well you said Tooth or Nail
23:23:05 <wob_jonas> and for un-sets, isn't Ach, Hans a better example?
23:23:20 <callforjudgement> that's also green, isn't it?
23:23:46 <wob_jonas> ah there is! Skyshroud Poucher
23:25:06 <wob_jonas> Skyshroud Poucher lets you put any elf into play each of your turns starting from your fourth
23:25:41 <callforjudgement> from hand or from library? I guess from hand?
23:25:58 <callforjudgement> `card-by-name Skyshroud Poacher
23:26:01 <wob_jonas> no, it lets you search your library and put directly to play
23:26:09 <HackEgo> Skyshroud Poacher \ 2GG \ Creature -- Human Rebel \ 2/2 \ {3}, {T}: Search your library for an Elf permanent card and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. \ NE-R
23:26:34 <callforjudgement> in an elf deck you can probably get that out early
23:26:43 <callforjudgement> but it seems too expensive to be useful in combo elves
23:27:08 <wob_jonas> I think all elves were tiny when that got printed, they didn't even have the 6/6 Wirewood Guardian yet
23:28:36 <zzo38> What if you will make mine different such as: Opponent selects two of those six types, and then you can search your library for one of each.
23:28:41 <wob_jonas> callforjudgement: yes, the problem is more that you can't protect it, you won't even have mana to cast your Vines of Vastwood on it
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23:30:55 <wob_jonas> zzo38: I wonder, would it read better without an explicit list, like "An opponent chooses four card types. Search your library for a card that doesn't have any of those types, and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library."
23:31:47 <wob_jonas> zzo38: what if you don't make it a tutor, but instead some cheap repeatable effect where the opponent chooses types, you reveal the top card of your library, put it at the bottom of the library if the opponent guesses right, to your hand if he guesses wrong?
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23:32:12 <wob_jonas> nah, still not very good
23:34:49 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Maybe it might be better if opponent just chooses four card types, I suppose.
23:35:17 <callforjudgement> I choose vanguard, scheme, plane, and conspiracy
23:35:23 <zzo38> Like you said, then you can search for a card that does not have any of those types.
23:35:41 <zzo38> (None of the cards in a library will have the types vanguard, scheme, plane, or conspiracy.)
23:35:54 <zzo38> (And therefore you may then take any card.)
23:35:58 <wob_jonas> is vanguard even a real card type these days?
23:36:19 <zzo38> Yes.
23:36:36 <callforjudgement> there are a few things that appear in card type position but aren't card types
23:36:39 <callforjudgement> like Token and Emblem
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23:36:50 <callforjudgement> (arguably Token is in supertype position, it's kind-of hard to tell)
23:36:56 <zzo38> Those aren't card types; I call them "pseudotypes".
23:37:31 <callforjudgement> well, they're the equivalent of Card, rather than Creature or Legendary
23:37:39 <callforjudgement> maybe they're hypertypes, given that they're more general than supertypes
23:37:54 <zzo38> Yes, in that case they are that kind of thing; "pseudotypes" is something more general.
23:38:33 <wob_jonas> aren't emblems a new sort of object these days, besides cards in a zone, activated or triggered abilities on the stack, tokens in a zone, copies of spells?
23:38:42 <zzo38> (A pseudotype is never part of an object's text and is never a characteristic.)
23:38:58 <zzo38> wob_jonas: Yes, they are a new sort of object.
23:39:22 <zzo38> Other sorts of objects are copies of cards, copies of spells, tokens, abilities on stack, like you say.
23:39:33 <wob_jonas> "copies of cards"?
23:40:24 <callforjudgement> wob_jonas: you can copy an exiled card, although I think the copy immediately dissipates if you don't immediately cast it
23:40:31 <wob_jonas> aren't there only copies of spells (which usually are in exile or on the stack), tokens (which may be created as copies of a permanent), permanents that currently copy a permanent?
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23:40:54 <wob_jonas> and copies of spells work completely differently from copying a permanent, they're just accidentally named the same, as far as I can see
23:41:08 <zzo38> In some cases copies of cards are created and then cast (such as cipher).
23:41:17 <callforjudgement> wob_jonas: there's a template along the lines of "you may copy the exiled instant, and may cast the copy"
23:41:29 <callforjudgement> `card-by-name Trait Doctoring
23:41:30 <HackEgo> Trait Doctoring \ U \ Sorcery \ Change the text of target permanent by replacing all instances of one color word with another or one basic land type with another until end of turn. \ Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of
23:41:33 <wob_jonas> zzo38: yes, that's why a copy of a spell can be in exile.
23:41:37 <callforjudgement> hmm
23:41:39 <zzo38> (If the copy is not cast, it ceases to exist.)
23:41:44 <callforjudgement> `card-by-name Hidden Strings
23:41:45 <HackEgo> Hidden Strings \ 1U \ Sorcery \ You may tap or untap target permanent, then you may tap or untap another target permanent. \ Cipher (Then you may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of the encoded card without paying its mana cost.) \ DGM-C
23:41:51 <callforjudgement> there we go
23:42:02 <callforjudgement> the point is that the copy isn't a spell until you cast it
23:42:03 <zzo38> wob_jonas: It isn't a spell while it is anywhere other than the stack.
23:42:19 <callforjudgement> so temporarily, it's just a copy of a card
23:42:25 <wob_jonas> HackEgo's database should be updated with Eldritch Moon by the way
23:42:36 <callforjudgement> wob_jonas: it should also be updated with Kaladesh
23:42:39 <callforjudgement> full spoiler's out now
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23:42:54 <wob_jonas> cfj: no, it's still a copy of a spell, because the template it's made from is a copy. it's just that that copy-of-a-spell is not currently a spell
23:43:03 <wob_jonas> cfj: oh, is it out already? nice
23:43:11 <callforjudgement> wob_jonas: what spell is it copying, though?
23:43:36 <callforjudgement> Hidden Strings itself is in exile
23:43:49 <callforjudgement> and the stack has nothing but a triggered ability that's trying to resolve
23:44:01 <wob_jonas> callforjudgement: oh... um, I don't know how that works then
23:44:15 <callforjudgement> wob_jonas: it makes a copy of Hidden Strings in exile, then allows you to cast the copy
23:44:18 <callforjudgement> if you don't the copy just disappears again
23:44:21 <wob_jonas> I guess I don't understand how all those rules work
23:44:33 <wob_jonas> you're probably right
23:44:40 <callforjudgement> but it's a copy-of-a-card, which can be cast, and which disappears upon resolution or being countered
23:44:51 <callforjudgement> sort of like a copy-of-a-spell except that it isn't a spell that was copied
23:44:57 <wob_jonas> ok
23:45:10 <callforjudgement> (compare to token-copy-of-a-permanent, which is a token in addition to being a copy)
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