←2016-10-08 2016-10-09 2016-10-10→ ↑2016 ↑all
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00:11:35 <oerjan> borehily
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00:11:53 <boily> bonsϿirjan!
00:12:01 <boily> mhelloonythellodwarf_
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00:12:14 <ais523> boily: wait, here does the e half of œ come from?
00:12:16 <ais523> you already have an ø
00:13:50 <oerjan> bœsted!
00:14:49 <boily> his523! it comes from œrjan hth
00:15:26 <oerjan> `? œrjan
00:15:28 <HackEgo> ​œrjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:16:00 <ais523> boily: yes but he is't called Ͽrjan
00:16:08 <ais523> you doubled the vowel there
00:16:18 <ais523> may as well be complete and call him oϿerjan :-P
00:16:32 <boily> good idea. I like vowels.
00:17:42 <ais523> hmm, how else could you write that vowel? ö?
00:17:48 <ais523> not really the same though
00:17:56 <ais523> but ö is sometimes written oe in German
00:18:44 <oerjan> `learn œrjan is oerjan and ørjan's superhero third cousin (once removed) from Québec. he got his cheesy powers by falling into a giant poutine bowl.
00:18:52 <HackEgo> Learned 'œrjan': œrjan is oerjan and ørjan's superhero third cousin (once removed) from Québec. he got his cheesy powers by falling into a giant poutine bowl.
00:18:58 <oerjan> `learn œrjan is oerjan and ørjan's superhero third cousin (once removed) from Québec. he got his cheesy powers by falling into a giant poutine bowl.
00:19:01 <HackEgo> Relearned 'œrjan': œrjan is oerjan and ørjan's superhero third cousin (once removed) from Québec. he got his cheesy powers by falling into a giant poutine bowl.
00:19:09 <ais523> wait, is ørjan the evil twin or the good twin?
00:19:16 <boily> `` sed -i 's/\. h/. H/' wisdom/œrjan
00:19:18 <HackEgo> No output.
00:19:28 <boily> ais523: all the oerjantwins are evil hth
00:19:30 <oerjan> `? ørjan
00:19:31 <HackEgo> Your pal Ørjan is oerjan's good twin. He's banned in the IRC RFC for being an invalid character. Sometimes he publishes papers without noticing it.
00:19:36 <oerjan> WRONG
00:19:44 <boily> ↑ especially that one. very evil.
00:20:10 <oerjan> how dare you defend that do-gooder!
00:22:42 <oerjan> `learn Örjan is oerjan's Nazi clone. He helps run the secret base on the backside of the moon.
00:22:44 <HackEgo> Learned 'Örjan': Örjan is oerjan's Nazi clone. He helps run the secret base on the backside of the moon.
00:22:51 <oerjan> hm...
00:22:54 <oerjan> `? örjan
00:22:55 <HackEgo> ​örjan? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:24:01 <oerjan> `` slwd 'Örjan//s/./ö/'; mv wisdom/{Ö,ö}rjan
00:24:03 <HackEgo> wisdom/Örjan//örjan is oerjan's Nazi clone. He helps run the secret base on the backside of the moon.
00:24:32 <ais523> hmm, I'm not sure I like nazi jokes in the learndb
00:24:42 <oerjan> `rm wisdom/örjan
00:24:44 <HackEgo> No output.
00:24:49 <oerjan> i did nazi that coming.
00:24:51 <ais523> (or, well, I'm sure I don't like them, and I'm not sure I even find them acceptable)
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00:57:15 <Jafet> I'm sure orwell didn't like the nazis either
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01:13:19 <APic> What makes You so sure?
01:13:57 <APic> Without Satire, no free Speech.
01:14:15 <APic> Also, _we_ do live on the Moon.
01:14:21 <APic> Which is made out of green Cheese.
01:14:36 <APic> What _they_ tell us shall be the Moon is the actual Earth.
01:14:55 <APic> „I got transferred to the Moon — Worse Pay, better Hours.“ — Was (not was)
01:31:40 <boily> `le/rn örjan/Örjan is the diæresed twin. He will punctuate your vöẅëls, and maybe a few other unsuspecting letters.
01:31:42 <HackEgo> Learned «örjan»
01:33:39 <boily> `? APic
01:33:40 <HackEgo> APic? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:36:07 <moonythedwarf_> `? boily
01:36:08 <HackEgo> ​"Only sane man" boily is monetizing a broterhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He's also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken and a METARologist. He is seriously lacking in the f-word department. He is also a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
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01:40:25 <boily> moonythedwarf_: as you can see, I am sane. this is important.
01:41:21 <oerjan> what was nani again.
01:41:44 <oerjan> and have you dispensed any recently
01:43:50 <boily> these were Roujoistic.
01:44:04 <boily> yes, I dealt cards.
01:44:24 <oerjan> o...k
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01:51:06 <boily> fungot: do you make sense?
01:51:06 <fungot> boily: uh-oh!! i want my else not to start so late
01:59:13 <oerjan> sounds sensible.
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02:08:50 <boily> `wisdom
02:08:56 <HackEgo> certainly//We don't know what certainly is for sure, but at least it isn't a functor.
02:09:37 <shachaf> `doag certainly
02:09:39 <HackEgo> No output.
02:09:39 <shachaf> er
02:09:41 <shachaf> `dowg certainly
02:09:43 <HackEgo> 2016-09-25 <fizzie> revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 <evilipse> ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2015-08-13 <int-e> revert accbc9c5c7ec \ 2015-08-12 <ais523> echo wisdom/* | shuf | head -n 10 | xargs rm \ 2014-03-16 <oerjan> revert \ 2014-03-16 <elliott> revert 1 \ 2013-07-31 <Bike> revert \ 2013-07-31 <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a
02:09:50 <shachaf> ugh
02:09:51 <shachaf> people
02:09:56 <shachaf> `` dowg certainly | tac
02:09:58 <HackEgo> 2013-03-04 <Jafet> cp wisdom/certain{t,l}y && sed -i \'s/ty/ly/\' wisdom/certainly \ 2013-03-12 <Sgeo> revert 2243 \ 2013-03-12 <elliott> revert 2416 \ 2013-07-31 <FreeFull> for x in wisdom/*; do rev "$x" > "$x"a; mv "$x"a "$x"; done \ 2013-07-31 <Bike> revert \ 2014-03-16 <elliott> revert 1 \ 2014-03-16 <oerjan> revert \ 2015-08-12 <ais523> echo w
02:10:13 <shachaf> `slwd certainly//s#at least it#it certainly#
02:10:15 <HackEgo> wisdom/certainly//We don't know what certainly is for sure, but it certainly isn't a functor.
02:10:19 <shachaf> `? certainty
02:10:20 <HackEgo> We don't know what certainty is for sure, but at least it isn't a functor.
02:10:25 <shachaf> hm
02:10:33 <shachaf> Oh, is this a modal logic thing?
02:10:48 <shachaf> Someone please decide whether to revert that.
02:11:21 <ais523> the modal logic thing is more often called necessarily
02:11:48 <oerjan> `slwd certainty//s/at least/we have certainty that/
02:11:50 <HackEgo> wisdom/certainty//We don't know what certainty is for sure, but we have certainty that it isn't a functor.
02:15:03 <shachaf> I think the modal logic thing is a functor, too.
02:15:56 <shachaf> gain certainty until end of turn
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02:38:59 <shachaf> "The prime minister of Norway was caught playing Pokemon Go in parliament"
02:49:11 <MDude> Aw sweet, we can catch elected representatives as pokemon now?
02:49:36 <pikhq> Gotta elect 'em all!
02:57:06 <zzo38> Why does the HD version of the new episodes of Murdoch Mystery on CBC always lack captions? It only happens on CBC, only on the HD CBC, and only for episodes playing for the first time. The SD CBC does not have this problem.
03:04:22 <zzo38> Also, the commercials still have captions both on HD and SD.
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03:23:17 <zzo38> It look to me Klingon transliteration is unambiguous but is not a prefix code; a parser for transliterated Klingon text may need to change part of its previous output if "h" is read.
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03:31:24 <oerjan> <shachaf> "The prime minister of Norway was caught playing Pokemon Go in parliament" <-- ah that explains that joke page (a norwegian onion-alike) i saw. * follows norwegian comics pages but not news...
03:31:49 <shachaf> oerjan: this is closer to comics than news anyway hth
03:31:59 <oerjan> ture
03:32:15 <shachaf> `? ture
03:32:16 <HackEgo> ture? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
03:33:19 <oerjan> occasionally i make a typo that just needs to be there hth
03:34:23 <shachaf> especially this particular one
03:34:27 <shachaf> you're practically a turing machine
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03:37:15 <oerjan> det er bare å ture frem
03:39:01 <shachaf> plural indefinite of tur
03:39:14 <shachaf> Remember Mr. Tur Tur?
03:39:50 <oerjan> shachaf: no, that would be "turer"
03:40:04 <oerjan> except possibly in danish
03:40:12 <shachaf> Of course I'm referring to Danish.
03:40:21 <oerjan> this nobel peace prize seems badly timed.
03:40:54 <oerjan> rødgrød med fløde
03:43:11 <shachaf> rørjån med flån
03:43:46 <oerjan> i'm not familiar with those words hth
03:44:01 <shachaf> @wn flan
03:44:03 <lambdabot> *** "flan" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
03:44:03 <lambdabot> flan
03:44:03 <lambdabot> n 1: open pastry filled with fruit or custard
03:44:15 <oerjan> well i know flan. not flån.
03:44:33 <shachaf> ˚ doesn't mean anything hth
03:44:48 <oerjan> flå'n could be a contraction meaning "flay him"
03:44:57 <shachaf> scandinavians put it on top of their letters to seem mysterious
03:46:23 <oerjan> apparently flån is a swedish lake name (multiple).
03:48:44 <shachaf> Sweden has a lot of lakes, though.
03:48:47 <shachaf> So that doesn't really count.
03:49:02 <shachaf> whoa, Norway has even more.
03:49:22 <shachaf> do you own a lake
03:51:22 <oerjan> not to my knowledge.
03:52:00 <shachaf> how much do they go for
03:52:51 <oerjan> i'm not sure there are many that are private.
03:53:09 <oerjan> so there's probably not much of a market.
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05:32:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MatheusAvellar * New user account
05:46:54 <ais523> how do you express the complexity class n×log²(n) in C syntax? n*(log*log)(n)? n*log(n)*log(n)? invent an exponentiation operator/
05:47:00 <ais523> err, this is for a comment inside a C program
05:48:26 <ais523> I guess I could just use a unicode ² but some compilers might be confused by that
05:49:37 <imode> the second one.
05:50:34 <imode> n*log(n)*log(n) reduces to n*log^2(n).
05:50:55 <ais523> imode: I know, was just hoping it abbreviated somehow
05:51:08 <ais523> also looking at this I'm not sure it's the correct complexity class anyway
05:51:10 <imode> you could use ^. :P
05:51:22 <ais523> that's xor :-P
05:52:04 <imode> we appropriate symbols for different purposes. blame our character sets.
05:52:17 <zzo38> Some programming language use ** for exponents
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05:52:48 <zzo38> (Even JavaScript now does, I think; not everything implement it though)
05:54:03 <ais523> I considered ** because it's mostly unambiguous
05:55:40 <zzo38> (Neither Node.js nor Firefox implements ** exponent operator; it is a ES7 feature and ES7 is not implemented yet, and is a draft anyways)
05:57:58 <ais523> I think Perl implements ** for exponentiation
05:58:08 <ais523> `perl-e print 4**4;
05:58:10 <HackEgo> 256
05:58:12 <zzo38> But what programming language will be *** and **** some standard operator of numbers too?
06:00:53 <ais523> if * is multiplication and ** is exponentiaton, you'd expect *** to be tetration
06:01:19 <ais523> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetration
06:02:05 <ais523> huh, tetration's defined for complex tetrs as well as integers, how surprising
06:02:58 <ais523> (it's clearly defined for complex bases, in general)
06:08:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49892&oldid=49882 * MatheusAvellar * (+392) Add my short description
06:08:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Set]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49893&oldid=23401 * MatheusAvellar * (+4520) Create Set page
06:15:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Set]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49894&oldid=49893 * MatheusAvellar * (+1612) Add example codes
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06:20:50 <ais523> oh wow, I think I found a great name for my CALESYTA language
06:21:18 <ais523> according to Wiktionary, it has four meanings, three of them are relevant to the semantics, and the fourth is a typical "this language is horrible" esolang name
06:22:06 <pecan> ais523: do you happen to work on anything nethack-related, by any chance? you look familiar.
06:22:35 <ais523> pecan: I'm on the NetHack devteam, and maintain NetHack 4 (the community attempt to bring NetHack while the official devteam weren't working on it)
06:22:54 <ais523> also I'm one of the people in charge of the NetHack TAS, and used to work on TAEB (a NetHack bot)
06:23:08 <ais523> might be easier to ask what NetHack-related things I don't work on :-P
06:23:32 <pecan> Ah ha, knew I'd seen you in #nethack or something.
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06:25:52 <shachaf> I used to be in #nethack.
06:25:55 <shachaf> But that was a long time ago.
06:26:14 <shachaf> Maybe I should try NetHack 3.6.0
06:27:03 <ais523> I'm not 100% convinced it's an improvement
06:27:09 <ais523> it has quite a few controversial changes
06:27:26 <ais523> OTOH, the changes are also not uncontroversially bad
06:27:43 <shachaf> I'm guessing it's harder?
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06:28:54 <ais523> shachaf: a few exploits were removed, it's harder if you used them, it's not that much harder if you didn't
06:29:07 <shachaf> What about Elbereth?
06:29:13 <shachaf> I think there were a few widely-used things like that.
06:29:13 <ais523> there was a change made to the movement formula that makes the game universally slightly harder, I've been trying to get that reversed
06:29:22 <pikhq_> Some day, that TAS will be finished.
06:29:23 <shachaf> I guess Elbereth still exists, just weakened.
06:29:49 <pikhq_> Well, okay, there was an April 1st submission that's basically a WIP of it.
06:30:04 <ais523> shachaf: I asked the NetHack learndb bot to tell you how Elbereth had changed
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06:30:52 <shachaf> I read the changelog, I have a general idea.
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08:13:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Ouroboros]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49895 * Dlosc * (+4925) Created page for Ouroboros
08:14:01 <hppavilion[1]> Pretty sure that's from grecko-roman mythology, but not sure what it is
08:14:12 <shachaf> higgledy piggledy
08:14:18 <hppavilion[1]> (Is there Proto-Indo-European mythology?)
08:14:22 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ello
08:14:54 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, the "autofellatio shown here" symbol
08:14:55 <hppavilion[1]> Right
08:15:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49896&oldid=49886 * Dlosc * (+16) Added Ouroboros
08:21:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49897&oldid=49892 * Hppavilion1 * (+251) Introduction.
08:22:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49898&oldid=49897 * Hppavilion1 * (+209) IRC plug
08:22:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49899&oldid=47302 * Dlosc * (+125) Added Ouroboros
08:22:55 <shachaf> There's an [[Introduce yourself]] page, but no [[Introduce Shachaf]] page?
08:23:00 <shachaf> That seems kind of one-sided.
08:23:19 <hppavilion[1]> ...I feel there's a joke here, but I'm not sure what
08:23:57 <hppavilion[1]> there's no user named 'yourself'...
08:24:11 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Is it the page for EVERYBODY to introduce you?
08:24:15 <shachaf> Yes.
08:24:22 <hppavilion[1]> ...ah
08:25:50 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49900&oldid=49021 * Dlosc * (+30) Added Ouroboros
08:26:07 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: heh, did you try to edit the introduction to the page without introducing first?
08:26:21 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: ...yes
08:26:22 <ais523> so far that page has been really effective against spambots
08:26:46 <ais523> one theory we have is that the human captcha solvers can't see the old content of the page when editing through the spambot interface
08:26:56 <hppavilion[1]> Aaaaah
08:27:07 <ais523> so all the introductions from non-spambots make the page a moving target
08:27:22 <hppavilion[1]> I assumed that users who had already made edits and were non-terrible had been autoconfirmed.
08:27:24 <ais523> although we know that the human captcha solvers can browse to pages manually
08:27:46 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: users who have already made edits shouldn't be hit by the "please introduce yourself" warning
08:27:53 <hppavilion[1]> Oh?
08:27:55 <hppavilion[1]> Because I was
08:28:15 <ais523> however, oerjan recently changed edits to the page to hit anyone who tries to edit it in a way that would break the introduce-yourself detection
08:28:18 <ais523> so that might be what happened
08:28:22 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Alternative idea: Require someone to solve an impossible math problem to join. You may only join if you say it's impossible :P
08:28:26 <hppavilion[1]> Yes
08:28:48 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, does anyone here watch Stephen Colbert's show?
08:29:00 <ais523> btw, I'm not sure I agree with your edit
08:29:07 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Why not?
08:29:19 <ais523> you can get a good idea of why someone's here from their introduce-yourself post, and many people don't like interacting with IRC
08:29:25 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm sure there's a good reason)
08:29:28 <ais523> like, I object to the way that the introduction is "not actual"
08:29:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49901&oldid=49695 * Dlosc * (+54) Added Ouroboros
08:29:47 <ais523> maybe I'll keep the sentiment but tone it down somewhat
08:29:49 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Ah, yes, I tried to put it there in such a way that it was just a plug rather than anything else :P
08:30:05 <hppavilion[1]> I actually used the wiki for several months before I noticed that there's an IRC channel
08:30:22 <hppavilion[1]> (I wasn't even an IRC user before, but I felt I needed to for nerd cred)
08:30:48 <hppavilion[1]> So I put it there so people HAVE to see it ?>:)
08:30:52 <hppavilion[1]> (evlis)
08:31:20 <hppavilion[1]> Stephen Colbert has a segment called "Big Furry Hat" in which he... wears a big furry hat
08:31:51 <ais523> hmm, now oerjan's filter changes are preventing me reverting you
08:31:55 <hppavilion[1]> And he makes proclamations that are from that point onwards law (e.g. "Anyone who shoots cell phone video vertically will be fed into a woodchipper horizontally")
08:32:01 <ais523> I guess I'll just override the filter for a moment
08:32:02 <hppavilion[1]> Huh.
08:32:06 <hppavilion[1]> Weird.
08:32:27 <hppavilion[1]> But I actually started invoking the Big Furry Hat in formal mathematical proofs
08:32:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/abusefilter]] modify * Ais523 * modified [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]] ([[Special:AbuseFilter/history/9/diff/prev/56]])
08:32:35 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49902&oldid=49898 * Ais523 * (-23) tone down the IRC plug
08:32:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/abusefilter]] modify * Ais523 * modified [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]] ([[Special:AbuseFilter/history/9/diff/prev/57]])
08:33:25 <hppavilion[1]> (Strictly speaking, I'm just using it to define notation; ex. "The BHF declares that a(+)b shall henceforth be equivalent to 1/((1/a)+(1/b))")
08:34:23 <ais523> that is an operation that could do with a name
08:34:32 <ais523> perhaps you could confuse people by calling it harmonic sum
08:34:41 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Actually, that's what I call it
08:34:47 <hppavilion[1]> (well, I just call it 'harm')
08:35:01 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, and (+) is ASCII for plus-sign-in-circle, just to be clear
08:35:10 <ais523> summing two positive numbers normally produces something greater than both, rather than smaller than both…
08:35:58 <hppavilion[1]> I also declared that you can write x with an overline to indicate the 1/x, the same way -x represents 0-x
08:37:49 <hppavilion[1]> This was actually one of the only mathematical proofs I've done in a while; schools in the US no longer require that you can actually DEMONSTRATE that something is true, so this was just a fun game. Literally; I'm reading through Knuth's book on Surreal Numbers and proving along with it.
08:48:02 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Topical! | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
08:48:44 <shachaf> I'd also like a name for the operation exp . abs . log
08:48:57 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Did we say this the other day?
08:49:06 <shachaf> Who?
08:49:11 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You
08:49:15 <hppavilion[1]> What does it do? Are we saying exp(abs(log(x)))
08:49:29 <shachaf> Yes.
08:49:47 <hppavilion[1]> And is this just e^abs(ln(x)), or can it be arbitrary k^abs(log_k(x))?
08:50:18 <shachaf> > map (exp . abs . log) [1,3,1/3]
08:50:21 <lambdabot> [1.0,3.0000000000000004,3.0000000000000004]
08:50:44 <hppavilion[1]> I will assume rounding errors
08:50:48 <hppavilion[1]> > log 5
08:50:51 <lambdabot> 1.6094379124341003
08:50:52 <hppavilion[1]> OK
08:51:07 <shachaf> > map (exp . abs . log) [1::CReal,3,1/3]
08:51:10 <lambdabot> [1.0,3.0,3.0]
08:51:27 <ais523> "1.0" looks very disappointing to me as a representation of a computable real
08:51:33 <ais523> > (1/3)::CReal
08:51:36 <lambdabot> 0.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333
08:51:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Binerdy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49903&oldid=45547 * Rdebath * (+1139) Hello, world!
08:51:45 <ais523> I guess lambdabot is just approximating decimals?
08:51:53 <shachaf> They're displayed to 40 digits.
08:51:58 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah, really, I'm not sure what it's supposed to do...
08:52:00 <shachaf> What's more, even (==) compares them to 40 digits.
08:52:16 <hppavilion[1]> I feel like I should see a pattern, but I don't
08:52:25 <ais523> yes but you can't necessarily determine what a given digit of a computable is, if it's exactly on the boundary
08:52:39 <shachaf> Right.
08:52:44 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, does it turn every integer into itself and every reciprocal into its reciprocal?
08:52:49 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: it's equivalent to x for x≥1, 1/x for x ≤1
08:52:57 <hppavilion[1]> OK, yes
08:53:08 <hppavilion[1]> Never seen a use, but there's probably a million of them
08:53:16 <ais523> it's not immediately clear to me why shachaf cares about the function
08:53:22 <ais523> (also it isn't defined for x≤0)
08:53:52 <shachaf> I was thinking of it in the context of e.g. change in value.
08:54:12 <hppavilion[1]> I replaced hexchat's beep and flash with just displaying the message in the corner
08:54:15 <hppavilion[1]> I do not regret this.
08:54:21 <shachaf> If something lost 80% of its value or gained 400%, those are clearly related.
08:54:35 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: aaaah, that's useful
08:54:52 <hppavilion[1]> (I once made an experimental program that reads skype messages aloud)
08:55:12 <shachaf> These days, just anyone is aloud to make experimental programs.
08:55:26 <shachaf> Today I bought an apple that I had high hopes for.
08:55:32 <shachaf> But it didn't live up to them.
08:55:40 <hppavilion[1]> My mother has purchased a mac.
08:55:46 <hppavilion[1]> We are no longer on speaking terms.
08:55:47 <shachaf> It's a mediocre Honeycrisp apple.
08:55:54 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Totally saw that coming
08:56:02 <shachaf> What?
08:56:10 <hppavilion[1]> That you were talking about the fruit
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08:56:26 <shachaf> It wasn't a pun. I wasn't even thinking about the multinational technology company.
08:56:59 <hppavilion[1]> Well. shachaf has transcended measurement in shagrumpies.
08:57:00 <ais523> I was thinking of the famos lament quote "even a box of rotten apples on a string is Turing-complete"
08:57:12 <ais523> `quote apple
08:57:13 <HackEgo> 82) <Gregor> Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. ... <Gregor> pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing child or slave labor
08:57:14 <hppavilion[1]> ........wait, what?
08:57:22 <ais523> `quote rotten
08:57:22 <HackEgo> No output.
08:57:23 <shachaf> Wait, is that what the monad thing is a reference to?
08:57:26 <shachaf> @quote dons apples
08:57:26 <lambdabot> dons says: Think of a monad as a spacesuit full of nuclear waste in the ocean next to a container of apples. Now, you can't put oranges in the space suite or the nuclear waste falls in the ocean, *
08:57:26 <lambdabot> but* the apples are carried around anyway, and you just take what you need.
08:57:38 <ais523> probably not
08:57:57 <hppavilion[1]> Is that literally true or just a joke?
08:58:01 <shachaf> Are the rules to your game written up yet?
08:58:02 <hppavilion[1]> I'm not actually sure
08:58:07 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: a joke
08:58:11 <ais523> shachaf: no, I'm doing so many other things
08:58:13 <hppavilion[1]> whose game?
08:58:15 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
08:58:16 <shachaf> OK.
08:58:19 <ais523> I did start writing
08:58:26 <ais523> but there are some things I want to redo and some things I'm not sure about
08:58:37 <ais523> right now I'm working on CALESYTA stuff
08:58:47 <shachaf> Ah, right.
08:58:55 <ais523> you know you're in a good place when you have to start looking up academic papers
08:59:02 <ais523> to get the algorithms you need to implement your esolang in a reasonable time
08:59:10 <shachaf> Well, there was a Magic: The Gathering-inspired programming language for the ICFP contest one year.
08:59:11 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, what's going on?
08:59:22 <shachaf> Actually only the name may have been inspired.
08:59:24 <ais523> even then I might have to write an optimizer along the lines of the PMMN optimizer I have lying around
08:59:30 <ais523> hmm, is that online anywhere?
08:59:37 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: http://calesyta.xyz/en
08:59:42 <ais523> let's put that in the topic, actually
08:59:56 <ais523> it's big enough esolang news to be there
09:00:00 <hppavilion[1]> YES!
09:00:07 -!- ais523 has set topic: Topical! | http://esolangs.org/ | there is currently an esolang contest: http://calesyta.xyz/en/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
09:00:10 <shachaf> It's bigger news than most things that have gone in the topic in a long time.
09:00:15 <shachaf> Right, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Lambda:_the_Gathering
09:00:55 <ais523> I once won $25000 as a direct result of a link in the topic of #esoteric
09:00:58 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: Topical! | http://esolangs.org/ | There is currently an esolang contest; Phase II complete: http://calesyta.xyz/en/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
09:01:10 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: ?
09:01:25 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Phase II of the #esoteric plan for world domination
09:01:28 <ais523> if that's a reference to Freenode's April 1 stuff, please take it back out
09:01:31 <ais523> oh
09:01:36 <hppavilion[1]> ...it isn't...
09:01:38 <hppavilion[1]> What was that?
09:01:41 <ais523> that defeats the point of the topic announcement IMO
09:01:46 -!- ais523 has set topic: Topical! | http://esolangs.org/ | there is currently an esolang contest: http://calesyta.xyz/en/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
09:02:06 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: oh, Freenode have a competition every April 1
09:02:11 <hppavilion[1]> For what?
09:02:20 <ais523> which is basically a puzzle (often a cryptogram) that leads to another puzzle, etc.
09:02:24 <ais523> with a bunch of stages
09:02:53 <ais523> normally we put up a fake puzzle that isn't actually part of Freenode's in the topic
09:02:54 <ais523> worded to imply that it is
09:02:55 <shachaf> ais523: Was that the Wolfram thing?
09:03:10 <ais523> so that if people are searching the channel list looking to get a head start in the puzzle by stealing someone else's solutions, they get stuck
09:03:11 <ais523> shachaf: yes
09:03:25 <hppavilion[1]> "NZT is a programming language mixing the powerful features of many modern languages with the useful and unconventional tools provided by esolangs. It is rich with powerful features, and has a defining property that all software written in it- and any and all computers running this software- comes under the Council's absolute control in 3 years."
09:04:16 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( C and C++ are the programming equivalent of natural languages, rather than things like Python and Haskell's Conlanging )
09:04:23 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: I once considered a programming language where the spec says that any implementation requires sending me money
09:04:30 <ais523> otherwise it isn't conformant
09:04:32 <int-e> "The jury will be selected among the candidates according to an arbitrary criterion."
09:04:42 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Which jury?
09:04:58 <ais523> int-e: I hope it's particularly arbitrary
09:05:20 <ais523> rather than just being random
09:05:24 <shachaf> It's the most arbitrary criterion.
09:05:26 <ais523> which is fairly non-arbitrary as it actually makes sense
09:05:42 <ais523> shachaf: what, picking an arbitrary arbitrary criterion?
09:05:49 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, an arbitrary criterion?
09:05:58 * ais523 notices that there's a potential risk of infinite recursion here
09:05:59 <hppavilion[1]> Can there only be one criterion?
09:06:05 <shachaf> arbitrary and criterion are the names of two unrelated Haskell libraries.
09:06:17 <ais523> wouldn't choosing according to multiple criteria be a criterion in its own right?
09:06:25 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: No?
09:06:33 <hppavilion[1]> Unless you allow 'AND's in a single criterion
09:06:36 <ais523> I think it would be
09:06:40 <shachaf> ais523: This reminds me of the game Mediocrity, where the goal is to be the most mediocre player.
09:06:47 <ais523> /any/ method you use to choose is a criterion, by definition
09:07:00 <hppavilion[1]> (You can technically make a fully-fledged system of logic with only one axiom, by taking an existing one and combining the axioms with ∧)
09:07:01 <ais523> shachaf: from Gödel, Escher, Bach? or did you see it elsewhere?
09:07:06 <shachaf> Oh, was it there?
09:07:15 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: criterion is singular
09:07:17 <shachaf> I think I read it in _Metamagical Themas_
09:07:25 <hppavilion[1]> I think
09:07:27 <ais523> oh, it might be there instead
09:07:30 <hppavilion[1]> Or is that criterium?
09:07:30 <ais523> those two books are easily confused
09:07:58 <shachaf> I haven't read all of either one.
09:08:03 <shachaf> But I think I read most of both.
09:08:55 <shachaf> Anyway, in a mediocrity match, you want to win the middle number of individual games to win the match. But you want to win the middle number of matches to win the tournament. And so on.
09:09:34 <ais523> I think players 1 and 3 have a huge advantage here
09:09:45 <ais523> as they have a move that's guaranteed to lose a game
09:09:48 <ais523> whereas player 2 doesn't
09:09:56 <shachaf> In which game?
09:10:03 <ais523> Mediocrity
09:10:16 <shachaf> Hmm, I've forgotten the rules for an individual game.
09:10:20 <shachaf> I think I'm confusing it with Undercut.
09:10:31 <ais523> you pick a number, whoever picks the middle value wins
09:10:44 <ais523> and at all levels in Mediocrity, tiebreaks are by player numbers
09:11:06 <ais523> also there's a limit on what numbers you can pick, integers 1≤n≤5 was the original I think
09:11:30 <ais523> Undercut's easily solved by game theory, anyway
09:11:34 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: What if a == b or somesuch?
09:11:40 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: tiebreak by player number
09:11:45 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
09:11:53 <shachaf> Depends on what you're trying to solve for, I guess.
09:11:57 <ais523> e.g. player 1 chooses 1.1 to 5.1, player 2 chooses 1.2 to 5.2, player 3 chooses 1.3 to 5.3
09:12:25 <ais523> Mediocrity isn't solved by game theory as it's broken, the optimal move depends on alliances and the like
09:13:18 <hppavilion[1]> Theory: Billy Joel is actually a pyromaniac and responsible for for several arsons, but nobody considers that because it would just be absurd and hilarious and anybody who suggests it gets laughed at and called an idiot.
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09:37:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Hi\n]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49904&oldid=43376 * Rdebath * (+131) Example implementation is buggy.
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09:59:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Cheese]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49905&oldid=47313 * Rdebath * (+93) Tasty derivatives?
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10:16:03 <hppavilion[1]> `? delaware
10:16:04 <HackEgo> delaware? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
10:16:23 <hppavilion[1]> `learn Delaware is a US state in which everybody speaks German.
10:16:26 <hppavilion[1]> (pun: DE)
10:16:27 <HackEgo> Learned 'delaware': Delaware is a US state in which everybody speaks German.
10:17:15 <shachaf> What?
10:17:41 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Delaware is abbreviated as 'de'; 'de' is the language code for German (Deutsch)
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10:38:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Treehugger]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49906&oldid=44798 * Rdebath * (-38) formatting
10:40:35 <gamemanj> hppavilion[1]: Ever heard of geo-thermal energy>
10:40:39 <gamemanj> *energy?
10:41:01 * gamemanj sees the quit message.
10:45:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Foo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49907&oldid=35508 * Rdebath * (+10) reformat ugly wrapping
10:48:03 <gamemanj> Foo seems like a brainfuck derivative.
10:50:53 <gamemanj> + and - (BF) map to +1 and -1 (Foo)...
10:51:14 <gamemanj> [ and ] (BF) map to ( and ) (Foo)...
10:52:39 <gamemanj> IO's wonky, but the actual computation part's the same.
10:53:28 <ais523> ah, Foo, destroyer of "guess what language the Hello World is in" competitions
10:54:43 <gamemanj> Or "guess what language this sentence is written in" competitions.
10:55:09 <ais523> right
10:55:28 <ais523> the thing about the hello worlds is that in simple cases, Foo has a tendency to just print all the string literals in your program
10:55:45 <gamemanj> ...Still, it might be a good language for lyric storage.
10:56:04 <ais523> and most hello world programs tend to have hello world in string literals, and thus also work in Foo
10:56:33 <gamemanj> #include "stdio.h"
10:56:40 <gamemanj> not sure what that would do
10:56:54 <gamemanj> it doesn't say unknown command behavior
11:00:43 <gamemanj> In theory, void main() { puts("Hello world!"); } should work.
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11:09:21 <ais523> unknown commands are skipped
11:09:43 <ais523> and this was on a golfing website, they're not going to include include files unless they absolutely have to
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11:33:57 <int-e> gamemanj: well, that has two instances of undefined behavior. a) void main and b) using a standard function without including the corresponding header.
11:34:39 <gamemanj> Yay, two points!
11:35:52 <gamemanj> Now I just need to find more undefined behavior...
11:36:06 <gamemanj> ...so I can get three points on the U.D. Scoreboard!
11:36:18 <gamemanj> Or maybe even four points!
11:37:18 <gamemanj> Hmm. Do I get more points for including the wrong header?
11:37:29 <gamemanj> Like, if I include stdlib instead of stdio, is that two undefined points or just one?
11:37:51 <gamemanj> Oh! Maybe I could undefine the GCC version indicator define!
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11:44:27 <int-e> including the stdlib.h header will not cause undefined behavior unless you do it inside of a declaration
11:45:22 <gamemanj> Perfect!
11:45:44 <gamemanj> ...you know, you should probably be getting worried right about...
11:45:49 * gamemanj checks a watch.
11:45:58 <gamemanj> Now.
11:46:20 <int-e> why... are you programming an ICBM or nuclear plant?
11:47:48 <gamemanj> Nope!
11:48:04 <gamemanj> I'm just thinking about triggering as much undefined behavior as I can find...
11:49:17 <int-e> UD is both underrated (ask any software security expert) and overrated (usually you just get a crashing program)
11:49:26 * int-e isn't worried.
11:50:19 <gamemanj> int-e: Aw. I was hoping by triggering enough undefined behavior, a genie would come out and grant me wishes. Or I'd get a device that grants wishes. Or everybody would be turned into walking animatronic pumpkins.
11:50:31 <int-e> And if you include a header in the middle of a declaration you're bound to just get a compile time error anyway.
11:50:31 <gamemanj> Any of those would be fine by different degrees of "fine".
11:51:16 <int-e> *but* an implementation is allowed to instead put the right identifiers in scope.
11:58:11 <gamemanj> I've heard that undefined behavior means the implementation can do anything.
11:59:03 <gamemanj> So all I have to do is create lots of undefined behavior, and feed the code to lots of C compilers until one of them successfully births a friendly AI, or turns everybody into anthropomorphic cats, or something equally fun!
11:59:20 <gamemanj> ....
12:00:17 <int-e> I think you may have better luck by implementing some nasty behavior.
12:00:35 <gamemanj> ...Nasty behavior?
12:00:49 <int-e> sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mem
12:00:56 <gamemanj> Ooo! Sounds fun!
12:01:02 <gamemanj> Let me just open up a terminal...
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12:05:36 <ais523> int-e: not going to test that in case I'm wrong, but wouldn't that just lead to an almost instant bus error before anything's actually overwritten?
12:06:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Slnetaiga * New user account
12:12:17 <int-e> ais523: I don't think so, mem being a raw memory device; I expect a crash with hopefully no permanent side effects
12:13:05 <ais523> Since Linux 2.6.26, and depending on the architecture, the CON‐ FIG_STRICT_DEVMEM kernel configuration option limits the areas which can be accessed through this file. For example: on x86, RAM access is not allowed but accessing memory-mapped PCI regions is.
12:13:34 <int-e> that would help
12:15:31 <int-e> but I don't want to try it out either :P
12:16:29 <int-e> reading seems to work in any case, dd if=/dev/mem of=mem bs=4096 count=1
12:17:37 <int-e> (and there's non-zero data in there)
12:19:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49908&oldid=49902 * Slnetaiga * (+159)
12:21:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fpulse/]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49909 * Slnetaiga * (+14796) Created page with "'''F-PULSE''', F-Pulse is an esoteric programming language like brainfuck, buts operands separated by space. == Examples == === Hello world === PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PL..."
12:22:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Slnetaiga]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49910 * Slnetaiga * (+8) Created page with "Hello!:D"
12:24:25 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fpulse/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49911&oldid=49909 * Slnetaiga * (+14)
12:24:58 <ais523> ugh, is that just a BF substitution?
12:25:15 <ais523> what happened to Phantom_Hoover?
12:25:20 <ais523> `? Phantom_Hoover
12:25:22 <HackEgo> Phantom Michael Hoover is a true Scotsman, hatheist, and completely out of the loop.
12:25:49 <ais523> ah no, it has extra commands
12:25:56 <ais523> derivative, then
12:30:17 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fpulse/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49912&oldid=49911 * Slnetaiga * (+84)
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12:38:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fpulse/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49913&oldid=49912 * Slnetaiga * (-8)
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14:21:40 <boily> `wisdom
14:21:41 <HackEgo> hackego//HackEgo, also known as HackBot, is a bot that runs arbitrary commands on Unix. See `help for info on using it. You should totally try to hax0r it! Make sure you imagine it's running as root with no sandboxing. HackEgo is the slowest bot in all Mexico!
14:54:54 <ybden> Oh yay, more brainfuck derivatives
14:55:31 <ybden> "writed on PHP"
15:04:16 <boily> there should be more aubergine derivatives imnsho.
15:08:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fpulse/]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49914&oldid=49913 * Slnetaiga * (-18)
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15:23:15 <wob_jonas> Wow.
15:25:09 <wob_jonas> The Szegedi Tudományegyetem (SZTE) Nagykönyvtára, which is one of the largest libraries in Hungary, got a political renaming to SZTE Klebersberg Könyvtár. That's happened in 2011 but I only just found out about it today.
15:25:44 <wob_jonas> If they need a stupid renaming to suck up to the government and get more funds, then the renaming is a fair price, sure, I'm just surprised I never noticed this till now.
15:26:52 <FireFly> Oh hey
15:26:58 <wob_jonas> I think the reason why I hadn't noticed is that I didn't look at their homepage, only the catalog http://opac2.bibl.u-szeged.hu/szteek/opac directly, and the catalog doesn't advertize the new name.
15:26:59 <FireFly> Hmm
15:28:02 <wob_jonas> I mean, I usually don't much like renamings because it confuses everyone, but in this case, it's a freaking huge library in Szeged, there can't be more than one of those, so it's obviously the same entity.
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15:45:18 <quintopia> boily: I am at Canada
15:45:31 <boily> quinthellopia, eh!
15:46:32 <quintopia> how about a aubergine/BF crossover?
15:47:16 <quintopia> would that please you as much as it pissed everyone else off?
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15:51:19 <oerjan> @ask ais523 Trying to rework the filter again so it doesn't need disabling for ordinary edits. What was the !(user_age > 0) for, again?
15:51:20 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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15:57:08 <oerjan> gah this is hard to do without adding redundancy...
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16:00:50 <oerjan> hm there is xor.
16:05:46 <boily> quintopia: a most pleasing abomination :D
16:05:59 <boily> helløœøœø¶œørjan.
16:06:06 <oerjan> helloily. hitopia.
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16:34:53 <boily> oerjan: by hand, on cheap lined paper?
16:35:17 <oerjan> in vim
16:35:50 <oerjan> although it only served to convince me i need to define variables for the filter conditions.
16:36:14 <wob_jonas> fungot, who did you kill?
16:36:14 <fungot> wob_jonas: find me a girl had to stay with me!
16:36:55 * izalove is starting to believe that fungot is a human and wob_jonas is a bot
16:36:55 <fungot> izalove: variables in different lexical scopes are merely ways to organize modules systems are either to do what? perhaps maxima... it's written by calamari
16:37:03 <izalove> yeah thought so
16:38:28 <boily> fungot: stop being sentient, but I agree with the calamaring.
16:38:28 <fungot> boily: take a wild guess here. the long-distance relationship is really hard to do if you are
16:38:44 <boily> hellob_jellonas, izellove.
16:38:49 <izalove> :P
16:39:02 <wob_jonas> izalove: fungot usually replies too fast for a human
16:39:02 <fungot> wob_jonas: so yea, it is
16:39:24 * boily lightly mapoles wob_jonas to make sure it's a bot
16:39:36 <izalove> wob_jonas: maybe you're just racing and *you* are the bot that's too fast for a human
16:40:04 <boily> . o O ( hmm... tasty squid... )
16:48:34 <oerjan> fff the mediawiki filter syntax doesn't seem to allow defining condition variables
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17:14:00 <boily> `? fff
17:14:12 <HackEgo> fff? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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17:18:01 <oerjan> hm
17:18:17 <oerjan> @tell fizzie wiki bridge is down again
17:18:17 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:20:19 <oerjan> or wait my edit didn't work
17:20:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/abusefilter]] modify * Oerjan * modified [[Special:AbuseFilter/9]] ([[Special:AbuseFilter/history/9/diff/prev/58]])
17:21:09 <oerjan> @tell fizzie Sorry, false alarm
17:21:09 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:21:20 <oerjan> now to test
17:22:07 <oerjan> looks good
17:23:07 <oerjan> boily: see Notes in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:AbuseFilter/9 hth
17:28:40 <oerjan> the diagram turned out to be helpful, even if i didn't _quite_ manage avoid repeating conditions.
17:28:46 <oerjan> *manage to
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17:30:50 <boily> optimizing karnaugh maps is a nightmare. probably NP complete too.
17:31:28 <oerjan> you'd think.
17:32:35 <oerjan> boily: it's better than optimizing boolean expressions _without_ having a diagram hth
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17:51:01 <ybden> `? inode
17:51:02 <HackEgo> inode? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:51:15 <ybden> `? book of infinity
17:51:15 <HackEgo> book of infinity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:51:18 <ybden> `? the book of infinity
17:51:19 <HackEgo> the book of infinity? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:51:23 <ybden> `? infinity
17:51:24 <HackEgo> In finity we trust.
17:53:52 <oerjan> `cwlprits infinity
17:53:54 <HackEgo> fizzie evilipse shachaf
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17:56:21 * boily has this nagging feeling evlipse is someone else...
17:56:55 <oerjan> well it was on that day when "everyone" changed their nicks to evil*
17:57:29 -!- Zarutian has joined.
17:58:02 <oerjan> i think someone (moonythedwarf_?) had invited friends from other channels.
17:58:05 <oerjan> oh hm
17:58:25 <oerjan> jeffl35 came that day too, i think, and is still here.
17:59:03 <jeffl35> ...
17:59:16 <oerjan> and of course, everyone tried (and eventually succeeded at) crashing HackEgo.
17:59:16 <jeffl35> should i leave?
17:59:21 <oerjan> jeffl35: surely not
17:59:28 <jeffl35> (not me :P)
17:59:28 <jeffl35> ok
18:01:24 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
18:03:50 -!- Cale has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:04:25 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> one theory we have is that the human captcha solvers can't see the old content of the page when editing through the spambot interface <-- well _my_ theory is that account creating captcha solvers and spamming bots are entirely separate from each other, and don't communicate.
18:04:26 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:05:40 <oerjan> @tell ais523 so by the time actual editing is tried, the system is no longer intelligence-based.
18:05:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:19:28 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> And is this just e^abs(ln(x)), or can it be arbitrary k^abs(log_k(x))? <-- it doesn't matter as long as k is positive.
18:19:29 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
18:24:35 <oerjan> `quote 82
18:24:36 <HackEgo> 82) <Gregor> Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. ... <Gregor> pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing child or slave labor
18:24:39 -!- Kaynato has joined.
18:25:26 <oerjan> `sled quotes//82s/ \.\.\. /[...]/
18:25:29 <HackEgo> quotes//<Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ <Warrigal> GKennethR: he shou
18:25:32 <oerjan> `quote 82
18:25:34 <HackEgo> 82) <Gregor> Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries.[...] <Gregor> pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing child or slave labor
18:25:38 <oerjan> oops
18:25:42 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
18:26:08 <oerjan> `sled quotes//82s/[[]/ [/
18:26:10 <HackEgo> quotes//<Slereah> EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ <AnMaster> that's where I got it <AnMaster> rocket launch facility gift shop \ <Warrigal> GKennethR: he shou
18:26:13 <oerjan> `quote 82
18:26:13 <HackEgo> 82) <Gregor> Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. [...] <Gregor> pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing child or slave labor
18:27:09 <oerjan> `` quote 82 | sed 's/.............//'
18:27:11 <HackEgo> Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. [...] <Gregor> pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing child or slave labor laws.
18:27:53 <oerjan> `` allquotes | grep '[^[]\.\.\.'
18:27:54 <HackEgo> 2) <Quas_NaArt> Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... <Quas_NaArt> More practice is in order. \ 14) <fungot> oerjan: are you a man, if there weren't evil in this kingdom to you! you shall find bekkler! executing program. please let me go... put me out! he's really a tricycle! pass him! \
18:28:27 <oerjan> hurr
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18:34:01 -!- oerjan has set topic: There is currently an esolang contest: http://calesyta.xyz/en/ | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf.
18:34:35 <oerjan> having it after the wiki page is just asking for people to miss it i think
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18:40:23 <myname> i have to look at what an esolang contest actually is
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20:54:22 <PocketKiller> hi
20:54:23 <jeffl35> -list sandbox
20:54:23 <otherbot> jeffl35: pyc pad pyr giac befr padclr lolr ><>r js rsc ul
20:54:24 <jeffl35> :D
20:54:31 <jeffl35> i'll leave it here
20:54:35 <PocketKiller> wtf is lolr
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21:27:31 <iovoid> -trackstats
21:27:31 <otherbot> I am currently tracking 3336 hosts, representing an aproximate of %4 of freenode record users. I saw 3336 nicks. From that users, 2590 of them was ever logged in into services.
21:31:39 <quintopia> @tell boily happy thanksgiving tho
21:31:39 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
21:35:11 * FireFly eyebrow
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21:42:53 <ybden> `? eyebrow
21:42:54 <HackEgo> eyebrow? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:43:07 <ybden> `? lotr
21:43:09 <HackEgo> lotr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:43:14 <ybden> `? hobbit
21:43:15 <HackEgo> hobbit? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:43:20 <ybden> `? dwarf
21:43:20 <HackEgo> dwarf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:43:24 <ybden> `? elf
21:43:25 <HackEgo> elf? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:43:26 <ybden> `? pe
21:43:27 <HackEgo> pe? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:43:33 <ybden> `? art
21:43:34 <HackEgo> art? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:43:40 <myname> geez
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22:09:04 <Taneb> `learn Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature
22:09:06 <HackEgo> Learned 'eyebrow': Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature
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22:09:27 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: Did somebody note your eyebrows today?
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22:10:21 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], yes
22:10:32 <Taneb> Seriously, it happens a lot
22:10:53 * alercah needs to get her eyebrows done again
22:13:41 <FireFly> Taneb: I require evidence of notable eyebrows
22:14:17 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Page "Taneb's Eyebrows" deleted for reason: Not Notable )
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22:14:50 <Taneb> `? Taneb
22:14:51 <HackEgo> Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards with dodgy SHIFT KEys, cube root of nine genders, and above average, not too voluminous, but calm eyebrows. (See also: tanebventions)
22:15:09 <Taneb> FireFly, they are notable enough to be mentioned in my wisdom
22:15:36 <hppavilion[1]> Maybe `learn should be edited to not work if a file is already defined, with a separate command `learn-strict that will overwrite
22:16:01 <FireFly> good enough
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22:23:57 <int-e> "eyebrows" remind me of http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/438558-zak-mckracken-and-the-alien-mindbenders-atari-st-screenshot.png
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23:12:47 <imode> what would one consider to be the most fundamental stack operations? stack shifting, rather.
23:12:54 <imode> swap, dup, rot, drop, etc.
23:12:59 <scoofy> push, pop
23:13:00 <hppavilion[1]> imode: pop and push
23:13:10 <hppavilion[1]> imode: I assume you accept some variables to be used
23:13:15 <hppavilion[1]> @messages-proud
23:13:16 <lambdabot> oerjan said 4h 53m 46s ago: <hppavilion[1]> And is this just e^abs(ln(x)), or can it be arbitrary k^abs(log_k(x))? <-- it doesn't matter as long as k is positive.
23:13:40 <imode> not entirely. stack shifting operations are mainly what I was asking about.
23:13:51 <hppavilion[1]> imode: You mean like rotation where the top goes to the bottom?
23:13:56 <imode> swapping two stack items, rotating... really everything could be done in terms of pick and roll..
23:14:19 <hppavilion[1]> imode: If you want to put values at the bottom you want a deque, not a stack
23:14:32 <imode> that's.. not what I was asking. :|
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23:14:51 <myname> is there a data structure that operates like pancake stacks? i.e. additionally to push and pop you have a flip on an index
23:15:14 <hppavilion[1]> imode: I don
23:15:20 <hppavilion[1]> imode: I don't get what you're going for then
23:15:24 <imode> hppavilion[1]: stack operators. dup, swap, drop rot, etc.
23:15:28 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Probably just pancake stacks
23:15:34 <hppavilion[1]> (wait, that's an ADT, not a DS)
23:15:59 <myname> well, it's a DS if you want to make it efficient
23:16:00 <hppavilion[1]> imode: You can do that with push, pop, and a few registers; not sure of any way without it
23:16:03 <imode> hppavilion[1]: if you don't know what I'm talking about... well, here's a nice documentation http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Forth_stack_operators
23:16:05 <myname> not sure if you can, though
23:16:16 <imode> hppavilion[1]: I'm asking what the most "fundamental" of these would be.
23:16:30 <hppavilion[1]> imode: Not sure then. What do you want to be able to define in terms of them?
23:16:38 <hppavilion[1]> Drop is definitely one of them
23:16:40 <imode> "pick" and "roll" would be the first candidates, as you could implement the other operators in terms of them.
23:16:50 <hppavilion[1]> myname: I thought 'efficient' is relative to what CAN be done
23:16:51 <imode> apart from drop, which is just pop.
23:17:14 <imode> but pick and roll require an extra operand.
23:17:21 <hppavilion[1]> So the mathematically optimal implementation is considered 'efficient', even if it's O(n!^k)
23:17:29 <hppavilion[1]> (that's n k-factorial)
23:18:12 <imode> guess in the interest of complexity, pick and roll will be the goto.
23:18:43 <hppavilion[1]> I'm pretty sure roll is only allowed for queues and deques...
23:18:57 <imode> roll is effectively an array shift to the right.
23:19:12 <imode> again, that link explains a lot.
23:19:19 <hppavilion[1]> imode: And the thing on top moves to the bottom?
23:19:50 <imode> sorry, a shift to the left. those darn directions. ;)
23:20:18 <hppavilion[1]> imode: I think you should use up/down for stacks; right and left aren't really meaningful
23:20:22 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:20:29 <hppavilion[1]> imode: Does the bottom item move to the top?
23:20:45 <imode> left and right are meaningful in forth's notation.
23:20:57 <hppavilion[1]> Fine. Just answer.
23:21:47 <imode> actually I think it's more complex than just a shift...
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23:25:36 <imode> actually no! it is just a shift to the left. so "1 2 3 4" roll 3 turns into "2 3 4 1".
23:25:48 <hppavilion[1]> imode: Then it isn't a stack
23:25:53 <hppavilion[1]> A pure stack, at least
23:26:04 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:26:07 <imode> both operators treat the stack as an array, yes.
23:26:31 <imode> but you can implement other operators in terms of those, so I got to wondering if you even need pick and roll.
23:33:18 <oerjan> @tell ais523 <ais523> shachaf: what, picking an arbitrary arbitrary criterion? <-- hey that's what i did for my Malbolge Unshackled implementation
23:33:18 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:33:50 <shachaf> hi oerjan
23:34:02 <oerjan> hichaf
23:34:08 <shachaf> Why aren't you on dontaskdonttelllist?
23:35:25 <oerjan> its for people who idle in the channel even when away, of which i am not.
23:36:59 <shachaf> But you logread.
23:37:12 <shachaf> I guess sometimes the bots aren't present.
23:37:29 <oerjan> the dontaskdonttellist was never meant for that.
23:37:52 <oerjan> it's for people who don't like getting lambdabot @tells when they could be sent a private message instead.
23:38:01 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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23:38:15 <shachaf> Oh.
23:38:16 <oerjan> but you cannot send a private message to someone who doesn't idle.
23:38:31 <shachaf> I thought it was about public messages.
23:39:05 <oerjan> besides, i've long since forgotten to check it anyway >:)
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23:39:31 <shachaf> `dontaskdonttelllist
23:39:31 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ c​o​p​p​r​o​ m​y​n​a​m​e​
23:39:37 <shachaf> Wait, is it rude to do that in public?
23:39:43 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Excess Flood).
23:39:48 <shachaf> Oh, that's quite old.
23:39:49 <oerjan> it's got noping
23:40:11 <alercah> noping?
23:40:20 <shachaf> no-ping
23:40:22 <alercah> is that ZWSPs in the names or something?
23:40:33 <oerjan> alercah: that or ^O's, i don't remember.
23:40:49 <oerjan> probably ^O's since shachaf didn't complain >:)
23:41:08 <shachaf> I think you overstate how much shachaf complains.
23:41:12 <shachaf> I'm not even using that computer right now.
23:41:18 <oerjan> OKAY
23:43:05 <alercah> Does anyone want to help me come up with a ruleset for duplicate Mornington Crescent?
23:43:09 <alercah> `mornington crescent
23:43:10 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: mornington: not found
23:43:14 <alercah> `?mornington crescent
23:43:14 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?mornington: not found
23:43:16 <alercah> `? mornington crescent
23:43:17 <HackEgo> mornington crescent? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:43:19 <alercah> I always do that
23:43:47 <shachaf> That sounded like a Magic: The Gathering card.
23:43:49 <shachaf> But it's not.
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23:44:32 <oerjan> `le/rn mornington crescent/Sorry, you cannot read this wisdom until you've legally played Westminster.
23:44:36 <HackEgo> Learned «mornington crescent»
23:44:43 <alercah> that's better than what I was going to come up with
23:44:51 <alercah> incidentally, I am going to visit both of those stations tomorrow!
23:44:58 <oerjan> yay
23:45:13 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:45:15 <alercah> Westminster to visit the palace, and Mornington Crescent for the photo op
23:45:47 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:46:16 <shachaf> `welcome pikhq
23:46:17 <HackEgo> pikhq: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:48:51 <Taneb> alercah, sounds fun! Holiday?
23:48:58 <oerjan> @tell ais523 (admittedly the outer level is random)
23:48:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:49:00 <alercah> I wish it was
23:49:40 <oerjan> by general channel synchronicity, he'll be applying for a job at google.
23:49:41 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:49:51 <oerjan> and end up in the office across fizzie.
23:50:50 -!- pikhq has joined.
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23:51:29 <shachaf> Read error: Connection reset by beer
23:51:53 * oerjan hits shachaf with a pear
23:53:14 <alercah> oerjan: wrong pronoun
23:53:22 <oerjan> alercah: argh
23:53:39 <alercah> is fizzie at google london?
23:53:44 <oerjan> i had a hunch i should be gender neutral but did not follow it.
23:53:46 <oerjan> yep
23:53:50 <alercah> ahh
23:54:06 <alercah> I'm normally not in the UK, so seems unlikely ;)
23:54:25 <\oren\> I wonder if Kanye West will run as a democrat or republican in 2020
23:55:31 <oerjan> hm i should have remembered the realname, although admittedly it _is_ male in some cultures.
23:55:46 <alercah> indeed it is
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23:58:50 <shachaf> «In the 2008 book 5-Star Baby Name Advisor, author Bruce Lansky writes that the girls name has the image of a "sexy and seductive knockout."[1]»
23:58:59 <shachaf> That is a bizarre thing to write in a baby name book.
23:59:38 <alercah> indeed
←2016-10-08 2016-10-09 2016-10-10→ ↑2016 ↑all