←2016-10-09 2016-10-10 2016-10-11→ ↑2016 ↑all
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00:00:57 <oerjan> <alercah> I'm normally not in the UK, so seems unlikely ;) <-- neither was fizzie before he got the job
00:01:18 -!- ais523 has joined.
00:01:25 <oerjan> his523
00:01:30 <alercah> oerjan: I would probably end up at an office closer to north america
00:01:44 <ais523> hi
00:02:06 <oerjan> alercah: reykjavik hth
00:02:18 <shachaf> alercah is going to work at Google?
00:02:38 <oerjan> shachaf: channel synchronicity demands it
00:02:46 <ais523> oerjan: the !(user_age > 0) is to avoid banning account creation
00:02:57 <ais523> while catching anons
00:03:10 <shachaf> alercah: have you considered moving to california hth
00:03:10 <alercah> oerjan: good idea
00:03:18 <alercah> shachaf: yes I have
00:03:22 <alercah> tdnh
00:04:07 <shachaf> california is among the best of the californias
00:04:59 <oerjan> ais523: but there's already an exception for account creation in there...
00:05:57 <oerjan> maybe it wasn't like that before i started rearranging.
00:06:17 <ais523> oerjan: there wasn't an exception for anon users (who don't have an edit count)
00:07:08 <oerjan> um
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00:07:50 <ais523> now I'm confused
00:08:27 <oerjan> testing seems to show no ill effect of removing it.
00:09:27 <oerjan> or wait hm
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00:11:01 <oerjan> although i'm also a bit confused about what happens with some of the tests if a variable is undefined.
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00:11:55 <oerjan> oh wait
00:12:04 <oerjan> maybe it _does_ catch anonymous users.
00:12:31 <oerjan> it's just that those have been disabled by fizzie, so no recent actions will trigger it
00:12:34 <ais523> oerjan: undefined seems to work like NaN
00:12:45 <ais523> all comparisons with it return false, AFAICT
00:12:50 <oerjan> ok
00:13:23 <oerjan> but is != equivalent to !( ... == ... ) even then?
00:13:49 <ais523> not sure, but my guess is no
00:14:03 <ais523> I guess we could make a test filter to find out
00:14:15 <ais523> although finding an undefined value without anon editing legal could be hard
00:14:37 <oerjan> well i was thinking about article_articleid
00:14:59 <oerjan> it's the reason i didn't change != to == when making the Karnaugh diagram
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00:15:47 <oerjan> wait, does this mean the filter really _should_ use !(article_articleid == 10933) instead
00:16:08 <ais523> hmm, possibly
00:16:09 <hppavilion[1]> What WOULD an esolang designed for actual, productive use be like?
00:16:25 <hppavilion[1]> Designed to be different, as if it developed from different core principles
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00:16:29 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: either something along the lines of Befunge-98, or else something that's esoteric because it does a heavy amount of source code checking
00:16:37 <ais523> Prolog is a good example of something that would have been an esolang at the time
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00:17:38 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah
00:18:27 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Or something ultra-minimal like Brainfuck (but not a derivative at all), but more readable
00:18:32 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Or even something like Thue
00:18:36 <hppavilion[1]> (I like Thue...)
00:22:12 <ais523> I wouldn't describe Thue as designed for practical use
00:22:25 <ais523> that said, I once did consider a wimpmode of Thutu the easiest language to write a particular program in
00:22:47 <ais523> (I realised Thutu would be useful for the purpose, so I created a wimpmode to make the program easier to write)
00:23:16 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: It wouldn't be literally Thue
00:23:24 <hppavilion[1]> But it'd be based on similar ideas
00:23:27 <hppavilion[1]> (string substitution)
00:23:37 <hppavilion[1]> Sort of like my Thoof
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00:26:55 <oerjan> @tell fizzie why are the "<code>" tags visible in the captcha question?
00:26:56 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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00:28:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * OerjanTest * New user account
00:28:58 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, DuckDuckGo will search the wiki with !eso
00:30:21 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Out of curiosity, would is Thue's name *properly* be pronounced?
00:30:30 <hppavilion[1]> (The person, not the language- the language is Too-ay)
00:31:19 <hppavilion[1]> I originally read it as "þoo", and now it's stuck like that inside my head, but I later learned it's /approximately/ "TOO-eh"
00:31:27 <hppavilion[1]> But the 'h' is bugging me- is the 't' aspirated?
00:31:34 <oerjan> the name is the same as the language, more or less.
00:31:45 <oerjan> yes, norwegian t is like english
00:32:16 <FireFly> ^prefixes
00:32:16 <fungot> Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEgo `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ?, thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ .
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00:32:21 <FireFly> Hm
00:33:05 <FireFly> I was thinking I'd host a j-bot replacement. Should I go with [ or ] as bot prefix?
00:33:13 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, it's [tʉ]... let me check the example
00:33:40 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: /²tʉːə/
00:33:50 <hppavilion[1]> (As long as I'm at it, I'll find how to PROPERLY pronounce my last name...)
00:34:09 <ais523> whose was j-bot?
00:34:22 <FireFly> tangentstorm. I don't think he frequents the channel
00:34:22 <ais523> arguably ] would make sense because jconn is using ) and j-bot is using [
00:34:25 <ais523> so it would be somewhere in between
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00:34:38 <FireFly> It's using j-bot's code
00:34:41 <FireFly> ] i.10
00:34:42 <ffj-bot> FireFly: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
00:35:31 <ais523> btw, is J commercial? I vaguely remember that it is but I might be wrong
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00:35:46 <ais523> by which I mean, can you legally obtain a J interpreter without paying money? and if you can, is it open source?
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00:36:55 <FireFly> It was commercial, but they provided a binary for free since forever ago, and then some time ago (2011? or thereabout) they released the source under GPL
00:38:29 <FireFly> Well, at some point far in the past it was fully commercial
00:38:48 <FireFly> well, 'far' is relative I guess
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00:39:57 <hppavilion[1]> (Last name 'Tronnes' stylized 'Trønnes' based on classical spelling; we pronounce it ['tɻʌn ɪs] or ['tɻʌn nɪs], but people constantly pronounce it incorrectly in various ways- most commonly [tɻoʊnz] or [tɻo:nz], though one person once did [tɻoʊ 'nis]. During an awards assembly. I didn't have the nerve to correct them. Any of the 5 times.)
00:40:22 <FireFly> http://www.jsoftware.com/source.htm
00:40:51 <oerjan> i thought j-bot had been here recently... it may have been b_jonas who summoned it
00:41:35 <hppavilion[1]> (When you do correct people- "no, ['tɻʌn nɪs]"- they tend to not understand that you're saying it as they should instead of exaggerating in the opposite direction, and kind of blend the correct one together with their incorrect version rather than just discarding theirs entirely)
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00:43:06 <hppavilion[1]> (This has led to a joke where you repeatedly correct them even when they get it right- "[tɻoʊnz]" "no, ['tɻʌn nɪs]" "['tɻoʊn nɪs]" "no, ['tɻʌn nɪs]" "['tɻʌn nɪs]" "NO, ['tɻʌn nɪs]" "['tɻʌn nɪs]" "no, ['tɻʌn nɪs]" etc.)
00:43:09 <ais523> is ʌ a schwa or is it a bit different?
00:43:22 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: /²tɾœnːeːs/ hth
00:43:26 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: It's the 'u' in 'cut'
00:43:37 <ais523> oh bleh
00:43:38 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Is that the correct one in Norway?
00:43:45 <ais523> that's like… schwa-like but not identical in all accents?
00:43:47 <oerjan> i believe so
00:43:50 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yeah?
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00:44:02 <ais523> it's more clearly a u than a schwa is
00:44:04 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Not really; 'uh' is different from schwa afair
00:44:08 <ais523> but people also default to hearing schwa as u
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00:44:16 <ais523> and it's not the same phoneme as /u/
00:44:16 <hppavilion[1]> Yeah
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00:44:37 <hppavilion[1]> Schwa is what happens when there should be (or used to be) a vowel there, but there barely is
00:44:45 <hppavilion[1]> Like 'o' in "button"
00:45:59 <hppavilion[1]> Most people say it like ~'bʌtn', but since you don't smoothly go /t/ -> /n/ (like with /t/ -> /s/), a schwa goes there to indicate that it is a separate syllable
00:46:34 <ais523> I agree that the o in button is pronounced /ə/
00:47:16 <hppavilion[1]> [bʌtən]
00:47:24 <oerjan> /ʌ/ is the closest english to norwegian /œ/, anyway, and it's often converted that way in borrowings the other way. e.g. no:tøff = en:tough
00:48:51 <hppavilion[1]> I feel like the Latin alphabet should have extra letters that aren't used except in math
00:49:04 <hppavilion[1]> e.g. combining 'b' and 'q'
00:49:53 <hppavilion[1]> or double-humped h
00:52:19 <hppavilion[1]> (The letter 'ø' is sometimes referred to by us as the letter 'no', because it looks like the 'NO X' symbol)
00:52:29 <ais523> oerjan: so perhaps your name would be translated as "urjan"?
00:53:21 <oerjan> ur-jan, the original
00:54:13 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Though, 'j' would be translated 'y', wouldn't it?
00:54:39 <ais523> oh, I assumed it was pronounced as English j
00:55:01 <ais523> the pronunciation of "j" in languages tends to be quite random as to whether it corresponds to a j or a y in English
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00:56:32 <oerjan> ais523: ok, neither page moves nor uploads avoid the filter, so i guess there isn't any problem with article_articleid undefined
00:56:58 <ais523> interestingly, "o'er" is actually an English word, although one that's rarely used nowadays (it's typically only used in poetry to make things scan)
00:57:09 <ais523> and it's arguably pronounced like Norwegian ør
00:57:29 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I always do too; I read 'oerjan' as [oəɻdʒæn] internally
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00:58:11 <hppavilion[1]> (and ais523 is [æs] five-two-three, tswett is 't. s. wett', etc. I know most are incorrect, but they're stuck)
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00:58:37 <ais523> ais523 is six syllables, one for each character
00:58:44 <oerjan> bood evenily
00:59:04 <ais523> and I tend to get confused/disturbed when people use it in a way that implies they abbreviate it mentall
00:59:04 <ais523> *mentally
00:59:21 <boily> bonsœirjan.
00:59:35 <boily> bonsois cinq deux trois.
00:59:42 <boily> @massages-loud
00:59:42 <lambdabot> quintopia said 3h 28m 3s ago: happy thanksgiving tho
00:59:43 <hppavilion[1]> (Sgeo_ is usually either ['sdʒi oʊ] or [ɛs + 'dʒi oʊ])
01:00:00 <boily> @tell quintopia bonne action de grâce à toi aussi!
01:00:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
01:00:06 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: Yes, I figured as such
01:00:13 <oerjan> oh it's 0 for uploads, not undefined
01:00:15 <hppavilion[1]> Of course, I never have to say it out loud
01:00:25 <Sgeo_> hppavilion[1], I usually pronounce it the first way [assuming I have any idea what those symbols mean]
01:00:46 <ais523> I typically only say it out loud when telling someone my email address in person
01:01:08 <ais523> that said, I've introduced myself to people as callforjudgement before now
01:01:10 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo_: like 'sjee-oh', so the 'sj' go directly together (which is against English phonotactics I'm pretty sure)
01:01:23 <ais523> and I think I called myself ais523 on the roguelike radio program
01:01:26 <Sgeo_> A very light and fast 'uh' sound between sj usually
01:01:42 <boily> hppavellon[1]. Sgeo is /ɛs.ʒe.ə.o/ hth.
01:01:54 <hppavilion[1]> Sgeo_: So a schwa, as was discussed above?
01:02:08 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Sgeo_ seems to disagree
01:02:45 <Sgeo_> AFK
01:02:53 <boily> he's also AFK.
01:03:04 <ais523> I use S as a semivowel when pronouncing Sgeo
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01:03:29 <ais523> it's two syllables for me, sgee and long o
01:03:33 <oerjan> just in case the variable becomes an alias for moves, i also tried moving the introduction page :P
01:03:40 <oerjan> (doesn't seem so)
01:04:11 <boily> Sgeo_ is definitely four syllables long.
01:04:34 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm [ætʃ + pi + pʌ 'vɪ (l|ɫ)i (ə|ʌ)n + wʌn], but I've had people say [hæp pʌ 'vɪ (l|ɫ)i (ə|ʌ)n + wʌn] before.)
01:05:16 <hppavilion[1]> (I had to invent new symbols because I'm not sure if IPA has that; it probably does though)
01:05:38 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: huh, I just realised I don't mentally pronounce the [1] at all
01:05:55 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: That's the original name; I was hppavilion the first time around
01:06:04 <ais523> right
01:06:10 <boily> /aʃ.pe.pa.vi.ljɔn/
01:06:14 <ais523> but I mean, I genuinely didn't notice there's currently a [1] in your nigk until I saw the pronounciation
01:06:16 <hppavilion[1]> hppavilion1 is standard, hppavilion_ on steam, hppavilion[1] in the geekier environments that support it
01:06:20 <ais523> and tried to work out what the bit at the end was
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01:06:55 <oerjan> (i suppose it _might_ theoretically be an alias for the target page, but that seems harmless as ordinary users wouldn't be allowed to move over the introduction page anyway)
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01:08:07 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I have decided that Cthuvian has a sound called the "labioglottal fricative"
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01:08:49 <boily> hppavilion[1]: labioglottal??? sounds painful.
01:08:58 <hppavilion[1]> bo
01:09:01 <hppavilion[1]> Whoops
01:09:08 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Yes. That's why it's in Cthuvian
01:09:25 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( boily burnham )
01:11:17 <boily> `quote fricative
01:11:18 <HackEgo> 1091) <Koen_> nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means
01:11:41 <oerjan> Koen_ was a very cunning linguist
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01:13:06 <boily> haven't seen him in a while...
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01:13:17 <oerjan> ais523: btw the reason i picked an arbitrary arbitrary criterion for Malbolge Unshackled was that i didn't want programmers to be able to rely on it being either deterministic or truly random
01:13:37 <ais523> oerjan: normally I just use UB for that
01:13:46 <oerjan> ais523: i mean in the implementation
01:13:52 <ais523> ah right
01:13:59 <ais523> what was it btw?
01:14:52 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: How does it choose whether to be deterministic or random?
01:15:19 <hppavilion[1]> Is it implementation-defined, chosen at launch, or decided each time?
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01:15:47 <oerjan> it chose randomly once per program run between either growing cell size deterministically (with several possible step sizes) or randomly (with several average steps or what it was)
01:16:06 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: for my implementation, chosen at launch
01:17:46 <boily> if something is either deterministic or random, isn't it equivalent to be wholly random?
01:18:14 <oerjan> boily: not for this purpose. and certainly not with a uniform distribution.
01:18:18 <hppavilion[1]> boily: Not if it's consistent throughout the program
01:19:08 <oerjan> boily: the thing is, although it is randomly chosen, the programmer cannot in a single run rely on it e.g. for RNG
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01:19:57 * boily is stochastically confused by the whole shebang...
01:20:05 <ais523> oerjan: I guess an example of something that's random but not reliably random is
01:20:07 <oerjan> boily: MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
01:20:13 <ais523> when the program starts, choose a random number p
01:20:25 <ais523> then output 1 bits with probability p for the rest of the program
01:20:46 <ais523> maybe the possibilities for p are 0.0, 0.1, …, 1.0
01:21:12 <oerjan> yeah as long as you include either 0.0 or 1.0
01:21:58 <oerjan> although in this case, 0.0 isn't allowed - the program has to actually grow the cell size at the specific points. although i guess you could interpret it as the minimal amount.
01:23:24 <\oren\> debate is in 37 minutes
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01:23:31 * oerjan is vaguely wondering if the brainfuck interpreter is resistant to all legal growth patterns, including ones my implementation doesn't use
01:23:50 <ais523> oerjan: wait, you wrote a BF interp in Malbolge Unshackled?
01:24:17 <boily> he\\oren\. following the Elections to the South?
01:24:35 <oerjan> ais523: no, not me, someone else. just last month or so.
01:24:54 <ais523> that's still crazy
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01:25:15 <ais523> does it work in original Malbolge too (obviously with a fixed-length tape)?
01:25:38 <ais523> admittedly it's probably using shifts to index the tape, so the tape length would be 10 minus a constant, not very useful
01:25:52 <oerjan> https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Malbranche
01:26:09 <oerjan> i have been too lazy to test it.
01:28:24 <boily> Ah! I now know why I thought you were Johansen, not Sorensen.
01:28:46 <boily> http://esolangs.org/wiki/%C3%98rjan_Johansen
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01:29:19 <hppavilion[1]> He\\oren\
01:29:31 <hppavilion[1]> Canada is not far enough for us to flee.
01:30:07 <hppavilion[1]> (Unfortunately, my mother's job kind of depends on being in the US- she's a law clerk for the feds- so that'd be a problem)
01:30:26 <hppavilion[1]> (Maybe we could get Alaska to secede into the UK)
01:30:32 <hppavilion[1]> (God save the Queen)
01:31:02 <hppavilion[1]> I kind of want to write the Interbible...
01:31:20 <hppavilion[1]> The Bible of the Internet
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01:34:28 <boily> hppavilion[1]: you should travel here first, to have a feel of the lay. have you ever devoured a poutine?
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01:36:14 * boily straps pikhq to the chännel in hope that it'll stabilize his connection...
01:36:59 <shachaf> chảnnel
01:38:59 <oerjan> <boily> Ah! I now know why I thought you were Johansen, not Sorensen. <-- wat
01:40:12 <oerjan> (it would have been Sørensen btw)
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01:42:07 <shachaf> ɓỏỉlỷ
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01:57:46 <oerjan> `? eyebrow
01:57:51 <HackEgo> Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature
01:58:02 <oerjan> `slwd eyebrow//s/$/./
01:58:04 <HackEgo> wisdom/eyebrow//Eyebrows are Taneb's most notable feature.
01:59:05 <boily> hellochaf. sadly my name's is undiacritical.
01:59:45 <boily> oerjan: oh.
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02:08:20 <quintopia> i wonder if the number of americans watching the debate is roughly on par percentagewise with the number of ontarians watching the bluejays game
02:19:52 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:MatheusAvellar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49915 * MatheusAvellar * (+272) Add User:MatheusAvellar
02:20:24 <quintopia> @meages-loud
02:20:24 <lambdabot> boily said 1h 20m 24s ago: bonne action de grâce à toi aussi!
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02:22:33 <boily> lamdie doesn't UTF?
02:23:20 <boily> quintopia: that was «action de grâce» hth
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02:25:51 <quintopia> boily: i scrolled up so np
02:26:11 <quintopia> i guess its french for thanksgiving
02:26:36 <quintopia> theres fireworks over the falls soon
02:26:49 <quintopia> we have a room directly above them
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02:27:38 <quintopia> boily
02:29:21 <quintopia> boily: what is the universal symbol for italian food?
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02:32:46 <boily> quintopia: uuuuuh... pizza?
02:33:14 <boily> (yes, I know pizza isn't really Italian even though it is now because of backretroappropriation.)
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02:38:16 <oerjan> @tell boily Hørrible!
02:38:16 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:40:24 <oerjan> @tell HackEgo It's øvful!
02:40:24 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:40:33 <oerjan> `echo @messages-
02:40:34 <HackEgo> ​@messages-
02:40:38 <oerjan> oops
02:40:50 <oerjan> `echo lambdabot: @messages-
02:40:51 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @messages-
02:40:51 <lambdabot> oerjan said 26s ago: It's øvful!
02:41:02 <oerjan> boily: looks fine to me...
02:41:15 <boily> @massages-loud
02:41:15 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2m 58s ago: Hørrible!
02:41:19 <boily> what the...
02:41:23 <oerjan> boily: did you put something weirder in it, perhaps?
02:41:43 <boily> for once I didn't put anything strange or unusual in it...
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02:42:08 <boily> @tell oerjan tést tèst têst tëst çççççààààà è ô œ
02:42:09 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:43:01 <oerjan> @tell HackEgo bonne action de grâce à toi aussi!
02:43:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:43:06 <oerjan> `echo lambdabot: @messages-
02:43:06 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @messages-
02:43:07 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5s ago: bonne action de grâce à toi aussi!
02:43:15 <oerjan> @messages-
02:43:16 <lambdabot> boily said 1m 7s ago: tést tèst têst tëst çççççà à à à à è ô œ
02:43:24 <oerjan> huh
02:43:26 <boily> Ō_ō...
02:43:51 <oerjan> @tell HackEgo grâce à
02:43:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:43:56 <oerjan> `echo lambdabot: @messages-
02:43:56 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @messages-
02:43:57 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5s ago: grâce Ã
02:44:12 <oerjan> `unidecode grâce à
02:44:35 <boily> @tell HackEgo ça se pourrais-tu que tu chokes sur des affaires que t'es pas supposé?
02:44:35 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:44:47 <boily> `echo lambdabot: @messages-loud
02:44:48 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @messages-loud
02:44:48 <lambdabot> boily said 12s ago: ça se pourrais-tu que tu chokes sur des affaires que t'es pas supposé?
02:45:12 * boily is mystified
02:45:18 <oerjan> ^ord grâce à
02:45:18 <fungot> 103 114 195 162 99 101 32 195 160
02:46:20 <oerjan> @tell HackEgo à
02:46:20 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:46:24 <oerjan> `echo lambdabot: @messages-
02:46:25 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @messages-
02:46:25 <lambdabot> oerjan said 5s ago: Ã
02:46:41 <oerjan> `unidecode à
02:46:42 <HackEgo> ​[U+00E0 LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE]
02:46:50 <oerjan> ^ord à
02:46:50 <fungot> 195 160
02:47:08 <oerjan> `ord Ã
02:47:09 <HackEgo> 195
02:47:18 <oerjan> the 160 is stripped somehow.
02:48:09 <oerjan> `ord à
02:48:10 <HackEgo> 224
02:48:23 <oerjan> > var "\224"
02:48:26 <lambdabot> Ã
02:48:41 <oerjan> > 160-128
02:48:44 <lambdabot> 32
02:48:54 <boily> @tell int-e your bot is a stripper. please reencode.
02:48:55 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:49:12 <oerjan> > var "\224\224"
02:49:15 <lambdabot> àÃ
02:49:36 <oerjan> `unidecode àÃ
02:49:57 <oerjan> > 0xA0
02:49:59 <lambdabot> 160
02:50:15 <oerjan> only the last one...
02:50:26 <oerjan> > var "\224\224test"
02:50:28 <lambdabot> ààtest
02:50:48 <oerjan> curiouser and curiouser
02:51:26 <oerjan> > var "bonne action de grâce à toi aussi!"
02:51:28 <lambdabot> bonne action de grâce à toi aussi!
02:51:36 <oerjan> wat
02:56:22 <oerjan> @tell HackEgo ààtest
02:56:23 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:56:33 <oerjan> `echo lambdabot: @messages-
02:56:34 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @messages-
02:56:34 <lambdabot> oerjan said 11s ago: Ã Ã test
02:56:48 <oerjan> hm wat
02:57:01 <oerjan> `unidecode à à test
02:57:24 <oerjan> 160 gets turned into ordinary space...
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02:58:43 <boily> @tell int-e your bot defies space. please reintegrate into the standard dimensions, preferably without involving relativity.
02:58:44 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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03:02:11 <oerjan> > var "\288\288test"
03:02:14 <lambdabot> ĠĠtest
03:02:28 <oerjan> ^ord ĠĠtest
03:02:28 <fungot> 196 160 196 160 116 101 115 116
03:02:36 <oerjan> > var "\288\288"
03:02:38 <lambdabot> Ä Ä
03:03:00 <oerjan> @tell HackEgo ĠĠtest
03:03:00 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:03:11 <oerjan> `echo lambdabot: @messages-
03:03:12 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @messages-
03:03:12 <lambdabot> oerjan said 11s ago: Ä Ä test
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03:04:12 <oerjan> @tell int-e What esteemed boily means is that lambdabot does not seem to output byte 160 properly, especially in @told messages but sometimes in > as well.
03:04:12 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:04:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Set]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49916&oldid=23403 * Qwertyu63 * (-25) Removing redirect
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03:06:29 <oerjan> @where aaaa
03:06:29 <lambdabot> I know nothing about aaaa.
03:06:46 <oerjan> @where+ aaaa àààà
03:06:46 <lambdabot> I will remember.
03:06:50 <oerjan> @where aaaa
03:06:50 <lambdabot> Ã Ã Ã Ã
03:06:58 <oerjan> @where+ aaaa ààààtest
03:06:58 <lambdabot> It is stored.
03:07:01 <oerjan> @where aaaa
03:07:02 <lambdabot> Ã Ã Ã Ã test
03:07:38 <oerjan> @@ @show @where aaaa
03:07:39 <lambdabot> "\195 \195 \195 \195 test"
03:08:00 <oerjan> @show àààà
03:08:00 <lambdabot> "\195\160\195\160\195\160\195\160"
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03:09:21 <oerjan> @tell int-e also applies to @where
03:09:21 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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03:16:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Set]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49917&oldid=49894 * Qwertyu63 * (+54)
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03:40:34 <Cale> hey shachaf http://cale.yi.org/reflex/PrismataUnits/PrismataUnits.jsexe/ :)
03:40:54 <Cale> (source code is in the parent directory)
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03:41:13 <Cale> Might be useful if you're introducing someone to mata
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05:03:39 <Sgeo_> mata?
05:04:00 <Sgeo_> Oh Prismata
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05:11:57 <Cale> yeah :)
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07:07:59 <hppavilion[1]> New substance: #esoterium
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07:09:23 <hppavilion[1]> It has a dord of 2502i kg/m^3
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07:49:25 <hppavilion[1]> Ø, Canada!
07:50:18 <hppavilion[1]> @ask boily Question: Is there a rule for how Canadian laws are written? As in, do they have to be written in French or English? And is there an official translation? And which is binding? What if there's a discrepancy? etc. etc. etc.
07:50:18 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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08:02:56 <zzo38> I think the law is that it has to be both French and English and people who write laws will have to know how to do both. I don't know what will happen in case of discrepancy.
08:03:41 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently it's a crime to feed change into someone else's parking meter in some places in the US
08:04:03 <hppavilion[1]> (is it parking metre in international english? Or just meter? Not sure if they're different...)
08:04:18 <zzo38> "Metre" is a unit of measurement.
08:04:30 <zzo38> In other uses it should be "meter".
08:04:36 <hppavilion[1]> OK
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08:39:22 <hppavilion[1]> `abyss
08:39:23 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: abyss: not found
08:39:35 <hppavilion[1]> Is there a way to see who the user `ing is?
08:39:46 <hppavilion[1]> `? abyss
08:39:47 <HackEgo> In Soviet Russia, the abyss gazes into you first. Other than that, it's pretty much the same.
08:39:49 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
08:40:06 <hppavilion[1]> I was going to make `? abyss react with '`? <name_of_user>' if possible
08:40:24 <hppavilion[1]> `culprits
08:40:26 <HackEgo> oerjan oerjan Taneb oerjan oerjan hppavilion[1] oerjan shachaf boily oerjan oerjan oerjan boily oerjan oerjan hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] hppavilion[1] oerjan oerjan hppavilion[1] jeffl42 jeffl42 jeffl42 jeffl42 jeffl42 jeffl42 tswett oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan oerjan hppavilion[1] int-e moonythedwarf moonythedw
08:40:35 <hppavilion[1]> `paste bin/culprits
08:40:36 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/culprits
08:42:11 <hppavilion[1]> `` echo "$@"
08:42:12 <HackEgo> echo "$@"
08:42:19 <hppavilion[1]> Hm...
08:42:28 <hppavilion[1]> `hoag
08:42:29 <HackEgo> ​<oerjan> slwd eyebrow//s/$/./ \ <oerjan> le/rn mornington crescent/Sorry, you cannot read this wisdom until you\'ve legally played Westminster. \ <Taneb> learn Eyebrows are Taneb\'s most notable feature \ <oerjan> sled quotes//82s/[[]/ [/ \ <oerjan> sled quotes//82s/ \\.\\.\\. /[...]/ \ <hppavilion[1]> learn Delaware is a US state in which every
08:42:39 <hppavilion[1]> `` hoag --help
08:42:40 <HackEgo> No output.
08:42:50 * hppavilion[1] moves to private chat
08:53:01 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, `tac is nice
08:59:10 <hppavilion[1]> Hmm, looks like jeffl35 was trying to break HackEgo earlier today
09:03:04 <hppavilion[1]> goodonya, jeffl35
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09:36:33 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, it'd take 4.5 years to cross the diameter of the oort cloud
09:36:40 <hppavilion[1]> * at light speed
09:45:04 <hppavilion[1]> But... alpha centauri is 4 ly away...
09:45:18 <hppavilion[1]> And if it has a similar sort of oort cloud...
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09:45:48 <hppavilion[1]> Then... that means they're both 2.25 ly across... but we're only 4 ly apart... so there's 0.5 ly of overlap...
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10:35:47 <hppavilion[1]> I'm reading tvtropes's ~1 per whole SFW page on BDSM (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/BDSM)
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10:54:21 <myname> how is sfw bdsm any fun?
10:54:36 <hppavilion[1]> myname: Maybe you're a professional dominatrix?
10:54:42 <hppavilion[1]> (or, well, the masculine equivalent?)
10:54:54 <hppavilion[1]> In that case, NOT performing BDSM is NSFW
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11:51:48 <ais523> that page can't possibly be SFW, it's on TV Tropes
11:51:56 <ais523> which is not a site you want to be visiting at work
11:55:06 <int-e> the trick is to read only a single page and then stop.
11:55:51 <int-e> (and yes, I remember https://xkcd.com/609/ )
11:56:06 <myname> actually, that is what i do most of the time i visit that site
11:57:41 <myname> the only ever article i really enjoyed was about dwarf fortress
12:14:07 <int-e> > isSpace '\xA0'
12:14:09 <lambdabot> True
12:15:03 <int-e> > words "ab\xA0cd"
12:15:06 <lambdabot> ["ab\41165"]
12:15:23 <myname> what
12:15:49 <int-e> cd are hex digits
12:15:56 <myname> yeah
12:16:04 <myname> but wtf 411?
12:16:18 <int-e> > 0xA0cd
12:16:20 <lambdabot> 41165
12:16:33 <int-e> > words "ab\xA0huh"
12:16:36 <lambdabot> ["ab","huh"]
12:16:40 <int-e> thought so.
12:16:47 <myname> what
12:17:29 <int-e> > words "ab\xA0\&cd"
12:17:31 <lambdabot> ["ab","cd"]
12:17:45 <int-e> it's amazing how rarely this trick (\&) comes up...
12:18:10 <myname> what is \&
12:18:12 <int-e> `unidecode  
12:18:17 <HackEgo> ​[U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE]
12:18:28 <int-e> \& is just an empty string
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12:18:58 <int-e> but it can be used to terminate other escaped character sequences.
12:22:42 <int-e> @tell boily FWIW, 160 is stripped because it is a space. This might not be optimal.
12:22:42 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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13:17:20 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49918&oldid=49896 * Slnetaiga * (+13)
13:19:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fpulse]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=49919 * Slnetaiga * (+14868) Created page with "'''F-PULSE''', is an esoteric programming language like brainfuck writed on php, buts operands separated by space. == Examples == === Hello world === PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS..."
13:19:40 <ybden> ...again?
13:20:12 <myname> that's exactly what i thought
13:20:19 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fpulse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49920&oldid=49919 * Slnetaiga * (+43)
13:20:20 <int-e> everybody loves brainfuck
13:20:25 <myname> no
13:20:31 <ybden> No, this page was made yesterday
13:20:55 <ybden> Was it deleted?
13:20:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Fpulse]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49921&oldid=49920 * Slnetaiga * (+26)
13:21:11 <ybden> `? Interpretatere
13:21:12 <HackEgo> Interpretatere? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
13:21:42 <int-e> yesterday it was Fpulse/
13:22:07 <int-e> so yeah this seems a bit redundant.
13:22:44 <ybden> Oh, I see
13:22:50 <ybden> Wow.
13:23:05 <ybden> I wonder if they went to the page, then wondered why it was missing
13:23:42 <int-e> doubtful; the first edit copied the whole page contents, judging by the number of bytes
13:24:54 <int-e> contents checks out, too.
13:26:08 <FireFly> Perhaps they wrote the page in an external editor and copied it from there in both cases
13:26:21 <int-e> perhaps.
13:26:23 <FireFly> anyway, the with-slash page should probably be deleted I suppose
13:26:36 <int-e> anyway apparently a normal user can't delete pages...
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13:27:15 <int-e> ...only move them, which is a bit pointless now
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13:50:56 <ybden> O.O
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15:01:42 <boily> mhelloony!
15:01:47 <boily> @massages-loud
15:01:47 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] asked 7h 11m 29s ago: Question: Is there a rule for how Canadian laws are written? As in, do they have to be written in French or English? And is there an official translation? And
15:01:47 <lambdabot> which is binding? What if there's a discrepancy? etc. etc. etc.
15:01:48 <lambdabot> int-e said 2h 39m 5s ago: FWIW, 160 is stripped because it is a space. This might not be optimal.
15:02:50 <boily> @tell hppavilion[1] hppavellon[1]! an excellent question, to which I have no answer. I wonder how it works...
15:02:50 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
15:03:17 <boily> int-e: int-ello. I concur about the suboptimality of the thing.
15:03:41 <int-e> surprise.
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15:26:36 <boily> `wisdom
15:26:38 <HackEgo> footnote 8//Isn't it fun reading through all the footnotes?
15:26:51 <boily> were there ever a whole series of footnotes?
15:26:55 <boily> `wisdom
15:26:56 <HackEgo> superexponential growth//Superexponential growth? SUPEREXPONENTIAL GROWTH?! HOLY CRAP!!!
15:30:03 <boily> `wisdom
15:30:05 <HackEgo> swatter//The swatter is a tool for punishment commonly found in #esoteric. Not to be confused with the saucepan or mapoles.
15:30:17 <boily> ^^
15:30:19 <boily> `wisdom
15:30:20 <HackEgo> wat//ኢትዮጵያ ውስጥ የሚሰራ የምግብ አይነት ሲሆን፣ የሚሰራውም ከጤፍ ነው።
15:31:49 <boily> there are ASCII/Latin-1 emojis, the disapproving Kannada look, Shift-JIS ones, but have people started to exploit the full Unicodemotional range?
15:34:14 <FireFly> there's the canadian syllabical running man
15:35:11 <boily> FirelloFly. right.
15:36:55 <FireFly> bohily
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15:59:49 <boily> `? moony
15:59:50 <HackEgo> moony? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:59:57 <boily> `? moon
15:59:58 <HackEgo> Moon is a murderous lunatic, not an unretroreflectorey object. He sometimes causes overmoonification.
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16:08:37 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49922&oldid=49900 * Malbranche * (-3848) /* Malbolge */ Simplified
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16:09:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49923&oldid=49922 * Malbranche * (-50214) /* Malbolge Unshackled */ Simplified
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16:17:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Malbranche]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49924&oldid=49701 * Malbranche * (+600) You're welcome
16:24:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Function call without parameters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49925&oldid=49865 * Function call without parameters * (+10)
16:24:55 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> It has a dord of 2502i kg/m^3 <-- ooh i did not know about dord
16:24:56 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:25:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Bug Computer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49926&oldid=49868 * Function call without parameters * (+14) not really a RISC
16:27:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49927&oldid=49918 * Function call without parameters * (+19)
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16:48:17 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> Is there a way to see who the user `ing is? <-- none that we've found.
16:48:17 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:50:24 <int-e> oerjan: are you in the right move to delete https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fpulse/ ? (the same conent has been duplicated and further modified at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fpulse )
16:50:28 <int-e> *content
16:51:18 <shachaf> your stomach feels content
16:51:42 <oerjan> @tell hppavilion[1] <hppavilion[1]> Hmm, looks like jeffl35 was trying to break HackEgo earlier today <-- i think you are misreading. he only tried install Powershell, and it was days ago.
16:51:43 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
16:51:59 -!- otherbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:52:09 <int-e> "The contents of a book is the list of chapters or articles or parts that are in the book, with the number of the page they begin on."
16:54:11 <int-e> The matter of contents vs. content doesn't seem as clear-cut as it should be.
16:54:54 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Oerjan * deleted "[[Fpulse/]]": Misnamed version of PULSE, which has the same content.
16:56:06 <oerjan> > "\224\224"
16:56:08 <lambdabot> "\224\224"
16:56:15 <oerjan> > var "\224\224"
16:56:18 <lambdabot> àÃ
16:56:28 <oerjan> int-e: sample of the bug i mentioned ^
16:56:47 <oerjan> @where aaaa
16:56:47 <lambdabot> Ã Ã Ã Ã test
16:57:34 * b_jonas grumbles
16:57:57 <oerjan> int-e: i think that definition must be an error.
16:58:13 <b_jonas> `wisdom
16:58:14 <HackEgo> indentity function//indentity function is the function that measures how indented source code is.
16:58:21 <b_jonas> `wisdom
16:58:22 <HackEgo> sbus//SBus is the standard bus in many a Sun SPARC-based system, capable of coping with thirty-two (32) bits in parallel, at rates of around 16.67 to 25 MHz. There is a 96-pin connector, and the cards lay parallel to the motherboard, like toppings on a sandwich.
16:58:31 <oerjan> oh it seems to be used
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17:02:24 <int-e> > var "a b c"
17:02:24 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
17:02:28 <lambdabot> a b c
17:02:30 -!- moonythedwarf_ has changed nick to moony.
17:02:34 <int-e> hmm.
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17:05:09 <oerjan> `unidecode
17:05:10 <HackEgo> ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE]
17:05:29 <oerjan> `unidecode
17:05:30 <HackEgo> ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE]
17:06:16 <oerjan> int-e: um is this something different because it doesn't contain the bug...
17:06:24 <oerjan> > var "hm "
17:06:26 <lambdabot> hm
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17:06:47 <int-e> oerjan: no, I was wondering if there was some unwords . words in the pipeline, but apparently not.
17:07:22 <oerjan> also, the > var "..." path doesn't destroy all of the 160 bytes, while @tell and @where do.
17:08:01 <oerjan> 160 = 128 + 32, and it seems to get changed into space
17:08:37 <oerjan> > var "hàh"
17:08:39 <lambdabot> hàh
17:08:42 <oerjan> > var "hà"
17:08:44 <lambdabot>
17:08:51 <int-e> @tell oerjan now that's interesting ?!
17:08:51 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:09:10 <oerjan> @messages-
17:09:10 <lambdabot> int-e said 19s ago: now that's interesting ?!
17:09:14 <oerjan> for > it seems to happen at the end of the output only.
17:09:27 <int-e> oerjan: see that's the kind of thing I was expecting.
17:09:29 <oerjan> `unidecode
17:09:32 <HackEgo> ​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+0020 SPACE]
17:09:40 <oerjan> oh
17:10:20 <int-e> but somehow the var thing is different.
17:10:33 <oerjan> well yeah > doesn't collapse spaces.
17:10:36 <int-e> or maybe it's my client...
17:11:07 <int-e> which displays \303\240\303 as àÃ
17:11:11 <oerjan> but > may strip spaces at the end
17:11:42 <oerjan> > showOct 160 ""
17:11:44 <lambdabot> "240"
17:11:54 <oerjan> int-e: octal is too confusing for me
17:12:08 <oerjan> especially since haskell doesn't use it by default
17:12:43 <int-e> `` dc <<<16iC3A0C3P
17:12:43 <oerjan> int-e: my client does the same. it's just defaulting to latin-1/windows-whatever when it's malformed utf-8.
17:12:44 <HackEgo> ​àÃ
17:12:58 <int-e> `unidecode  
17:12:59 <HackEgo> ​[U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE]
17:13:21 <int-e> okay... it sees that it isn't unicode and treats the whole line as ISO 8859-1. makes sense.
17:13:47 <int-e> <HackEgo> ​àÃ
17:13:48 <oerjan> fnord
17:13:51 <int-e> looks nice.
17:14:17 <int-e> oerjan: using irssi
17:14:20 <oerjan> that's HackEgo's initial ZWSP
17:14:23 <oerjan> me too
17:14:53 <int-e> so okay, most things strip trailing spaces, and some a bit more :P
17:17:08 <oerjan> @tell int-e This gives boily à problem when @telling in French...
17:17:08 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:17:10 <int-e> and obviously it's a feature not a bug... *leans back*
17:17:17 <oerjan> (which is how it was discovered)
17:18:09 <oerjan> int-e: the thing is they don't do the stripping unicode-clean
17:18:26 <int-e> @tell oerjan disenfrànchised?
17:18:26 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:18:32 <oerjan> @messages-
17:18:33 <lambdabot> int-e said 6s ago: disenfrà nchised?
17:19:48 <int-e> it's funny that this hasn't turned up before.
17:21:35 <oerjan> > var "\122\180\224hm"
17:21:38 <lambdabot> z´àhm
17:21:46 <oerjan> oh wait
17:22:10 <oerjan> int-e: well ´à are the only characters affected that are also in latin-1, iiuc
17:22:47 <oerjan> > var "\224\180"
17:22:50 <lambdabot> à´
17:22:54 <oerjan> oops
17:23:12 <oerjan> not \180?
17:23:31 <oerjan> ^ord à´
17:23:31 <fungot> 195 160 194 180
17:23:50 <oerjan> ok i'm miscalculating
17:24:00 <oerjan> i guess à may be the only one then
17:24:30 <oerjan> > "\224\160"
17:24:32 <lambdabot> "\224\160"
17:24:37 <oerjan> > var "\224\160"
17:24:40 <lambdabot> àÂ
17:24:43 <oerjan> > var "\224\160hm"
17:24:46 <lambdabot> à hm
17:24:58 <oerjan> oh of course, it's \160 itself.
17:25:12 <oerjan> although no one would use that normally
17:25:37 <oerjan> so à is the most likely character to show problems, unless people do chinese or the like...
17:26:26 <int-e> `` dc <<16iC4A0P
17:26:28 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: warning: here-document at line 4 delimited by end-of-file (wanted `16iC4A0P')
17:26:34 <int-e> `` dc <<<16iC4A0P
17:26:35 <HackEgo> ​Ġ
17:26:42 <oerjan> > filter isSpace ['\0'..'\255']
17:26:45 <lambdabot> "\t\n\v\f\r \160"
17:26:48 <int-e> > var "Ġ"
17:26:51 <lambdabot> Ä
17:26:57 <int-e> and so on.
17:26:59 <oerjan> it is probably using isSpace
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17:27:31 <oerjan> well yeah i found that one earlier. it's not latin-1, and looks pretty rare.
17:27:45 <int-e> `` dc <<<16iC5A0C6A0C7A0C8A0C9A0CAA0CBA0CCA0CDA0CEA0CFA0P
17:27:46 <HackEgo> ​ŠƠǠȠɠʠˠ̠͠ΠϠ
17:28:00 <int-e> @tell oerjan ŠƠǠȠɠʠˠ̠͠ΠϠ
17:28:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
17:28:11 <oerjan> @messages- charming
17:28:11 <lambdabot> int-e said 10s ago: Å Æ Ç È É Ê Ë Ì Í Î Ï
17:28:57 <oerjan> so, nothing remotely common. i guess the first one is used in czech and maybe other slavic languages.
17:29:17 <int-e> > ['à','Ġ'..]
17:29:20 <lambdabot> "\224\288\352\416\480\544\608\672\736\800\864\928\992\1056\1120\1184\1248\13...
17:29:24 <int-e> > var ['à','Ġ'..]
17:29:27 <lambdabot> àĠŠƠǠȠɠʠˠ̠͠ΠϠРѠҠӠԠՠ֠נؠ٠ڠ۠ܠݠޠߠࠠࡠࢠ࣠ठॠঠৠਠ੠ઠૠଠୠ஠௠ఠౠಠೠഠൠච෠ภ๠ຠ໠༠འྠ࿠ဠၠႠრᄠᅠᆠᇠሠበአዠጠ፠áŽ
17:29:27 <lambdabot>  ...
17:30:28 <oerjan> i suspect an unclean cutoff is a danger on long output too
17:30:36 <oerjan> but this time lucky
17:31:06 <oerjan> `unidecode РѠҠӠ
17:31:33 <oerjan> ok the first one is common in russian etc.
17:31:44 <int-e> `var "СССР"
17:31:45 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: var: not found
17:31:47 <int-e> > var "СССР"
17:31:50 <lambdabot> СССÐ
17:31:57 <oerjan> XD
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17:32:56 <int-e> `unidecode ḠṠẠỠἠὠᾠῠ†⁠
17:32:58 <oerjan> oh boily was here
17:33:30 <int-e> @google YPOGEGRAMMENI
17:33:32 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iota_subscript
17:33:51 <int-e> fancy, bbl
17:34:08 <oerjan> `unidecode Ơ
17:35:33 <oerjan> > words "\160"
17:35:36 <lambdabot> []
17:35:46 <oerjan> so words uses isSpace
17:38:26 <oerjan> hmph
17:38:31 <oerjan> whew
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17:45:06 <oerjan> int-e: oh i didn't see you'd been experimenting in the logs
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17:47:56 <oerjan> ooh i managed to kill the right tmux zombie this time. except it didn't die, but the terminal started working again...
17:49:57 <oerjan> (the last time i tried that, i destroyed the session itself)
17:50:29 <oerjan> it would have been helpful if tmux used different names for the client and server processes, me thinks
17:51:51 <oerjan> hm or maybe it wasn't a zombie, just reacted in the right way
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18:15:23 <zemhill> web.TellsToBeat: points -5.69, score 16.40, rank 15/47
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18:15:56 <zemhill> web.TellsToBeat: points -5.69, score 16.40, rank 15/47 (--)
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18:32:14 <zemhill> web.TellsToBeat: points -2.64, score 19.66, rank 14/47 (+1)
18:38:52 <shachaf> _Five stages of accepting constructive mathematics_, by Andrej Bauer: http://www.ams.org/journals/bull/0000-000-00/S0273-0979-2016-01556-4/
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18:57:06 <shachaf> `tervetuloa Cale
18:57:08 <HackEgo> Cale: Tervetuloa esoteeristen ohjelmointikielten suunnittelun ja käyttöönoton kansainväliseen keskukseen! Lisätietoa saat wikistämme: <http://esolangs.org/>. (Muu esoteerisuus: kokeile kanavaa #esoteric joko EFnet- tai Dalnet-verkossa.)
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18:59:38 <shachaf> Cale: did you see this thing twh <shachaf> _Five stages of accepting constructive mathematics_, by Andrej Bauer: http://www.ams.org/journals/bull/0000-000-00/S0273-0979-2016-01556-4/
19:01:10 <Cale> I have seen Andrej talk about the five stages
19:01:16 <Cale> But I haven't seen that thing
19:01:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
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19:01:55 <hppavilion[1]> Constructive mathematics is no fun
19:02:03 <hppavilion[1]> @messages-how
19:02:03 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
19:02:14 <hppavilion[1]> @messages-proud
19:02:14 <lambdabot> boily said 3h 59m 23s ago: hppavellon[1]! an excellent question, to which I have no answer. I wonder how it works...
19:02:14 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 37m 18s ago: <hppavilion[1]> It has a dord of 2502i kg/m^3 <-- ooh i did not know about dord
19:02:14 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 13m 56s ago: <hppavilion[1]> Is there a way to see who the user `ing is? <-- none that we've found.
19:02:14 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2h 10m 31s ago: <hppavilion[1]> Hmm, looks like jeffl35 was trying to break HackEgo earlier today <-- i think you are misreading. he only tried install Powershell, and it was days ago.
19:02:34 <jeffl35> lol
19:02:38 <hppavilion[1]> Ah xD
19:02:42 <hppavilion[1]> jeffl35: n00b
19:02:47 <jeffl35> hppavilion[1]: n00b
19:02:55 <shachaf> Cale: I think it makes a pretty good case for pointless topology. I should learn more about pointless topology probably.
19:03:01 <hppavilion[1]> n0*b
19:03:18 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: What's the use of pointless topology?
19:03:58 <hppavilion[1]> (Schrödingpun; it is both a pun AND an actual question)
19:05:26 -!- otherbot has joined.
19:05:36 <jeffl35> -
19:05:36 <otherbot> n00b
19:05:38 <jeffl35> -
19:05:38 <otherbot> I am not a supybot you derp
19:05:41 <jeffl35> lol
19:05:43 <shachaf> I'm thinking it's a lot more of the former than the latter.
19:05:47 <shachaf> Can this bot spam stop?
19:05:50 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: You're the one whose client doesn't like Unicode, correct?
19:06:05 <shachaf> I don't know?
19:06:24 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I seem to remember using unnecessary amounts of Unicode one day and you just quitting.
19:07:01 <shachaf> If it was related to anything you did, I suspect you were just being annoying in other ways.
19:07:08 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
19:07:13 <shachaf> But maybe not.
19:07:19 <hppavilion[1]> But generally, some peoples clients don't like unicode
19:07:20 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
19:07:36 <hppavilion[1]> But that raises the question of whether ö (as in Gödel and Schrödinger) is OK
19:07:57 <hppavilion[1]> I feel it's not OK to NOT spell "Gödel" with the 'ö'
19:08:20 <hppavilion[1]> (ö: AKA the letter "Oooooooh!")
19:09:01 <shachaf> What about coöperation?
19:09:11 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...no?
19:09:16 <shachaf> ?
19:09:33 <hppavilion[1]> Also, are your co-conspirators the people you co-conspire with?
19:09:38 -!- `^_^v has joined.
19:09:46 <hppavilion[1]> (equiv. nspirators, nspire)
19:09:59 <shachaf> http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/the-curse-of-the-diaeresis
19:10:20 <shachaf> Those are not equivalent and you know it, you're just making a tired joke.
19:11:59 <hppavilion[1]> ...I didn't realize that was ever a thing
19:12:06 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit).
19:12:56 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic)
19:13:18 <shachaf> also naïve etc.
19:13:45 <hppavilion[1]> Well yes, naïve is still interchangable with naive, AND looks smancier
19:13:53 <hppavilion[1]> (shmancïer?)
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19:16:02 <int-e> . o O ( complete the following sentence: #esoteric would be better without... )
19:17:32 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Federal regulations!
19:17:53 <shachaf> This conversation must look odd from int-e's point of view.
19:18:26 * hppavilion[1] resists the urge to say "nversation"
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19:19:05 <hppavilion[1]> helloonythedwarf_
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19:21:23 * int-e was going to suggest otherbot though.
19:21:24 <shachaf> Cale: I think we talked about this once before: Is there a point-free definition of manifold?
19:21:49 <hppavilion[1]> `? pointless topology
19:21:50 <HackEgo> Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents.
19:22:09 <shachaf> `cwlprits pointless topology
19:22:11 <HackEgo> fizzie evilipse shachaf shachaf
19:22:23 <shachaf> `forget pointless topology
19:22:24 <hppavilion[1]> ...I feel like the wording a joke that I would get if I knew pointless topology
19:22:26 <HackEgo> Forget what?
19:22:35 <hppavilion[1]> And 'it's entirely pointless' is FAR too easy
19:22:38 <hppavilion[1]> `? tanebventions
19:22:39 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
19:22:56 -!- `^_^v has joined.
19:23:23 <shachaf> didn't oerjan invent Tanebventions?
19:23:31 <shachaf> `? shaventions
19:23:32 <HackEgo> shaventions include: before/lastfiles, culprits, hog/{h,d}oag, le//rn, tmp/, mk/mkx, sled/sedlast, spore/spam/speek/sport/1. Taneb invented them.
19:23:46 <int-e> `? conventions
19:23:47 <HackEgo> conventions? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
19:23:49 <shachaf> `before
19:23:51 <HackEgo> wisdom/pointless topology//Pointless topology is the kind of topology Taneb invents.
19:24:26 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb invented the universe, but did he invent the duverse?
19:24:48 <Cale> shachaf: hmm, I don't think we have, but it's an interesting question -- of course, the usual definitions are nearly points-free already
19:25:05 <shachaf> Are they?
19:25:55 <shachaf> "every point has an open neighborhood homeomorphic to R^n" seems pretty pointy.
19:26:02 <Cale> at least the "locally homeomorphic to Euclidean space" bit, I think qualifies
19:26:25 <shachaf> What does "locally" mean?
19:27:01 <hppavilion[1]> `? tanebventions
19:27:03 <HackEgo> Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, the triverse, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
19:27:27 <shachaf> i,i localely homeomorphic to Euclidean space
19:27:34 <Cale> heh
19:27:36 <hppavilion[1]> What IS i,i again?
19:27:38 <hppavilion[1]> `? i,i
19:27:39 <HackEgo> i,i i,i what is i,i
19:27:48 <hppavilion[1]> `tomfoolery i,i
19:27:50 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
19:28:40 <shachaf> Maybe I'm missing something obvious.
19:29:56 <shachaf> For example, maybe what I said is equivalent to saying that every open set (or every set of a basis or something) is homeomorphic to R^n? But that doesn't seem likely.
19:30:24 <hppavilion[1]> No, really, what IS 'i,i'
19:31:17 <shachaf> It's approximately . o O ( )
19:31:24 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
19:31:32 <hppavilion[1]> Is it an abbreviation?
19:31:43 <shachaf> Yes.
19:32:02 <Cale> shachaf: Perhaps we could go with "every open set contains an open set homeomorphic to R^n"
19:32:12 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( . o O ( . o O ( Leonardo DiCaprio ) ) )
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19:32:20 <Cale> But I'm not sure this really suffices
19:32:21 <shachaf> Is that equivalent?
19:32:44 <Cale> Because you still might avoid some point like that
19:33:07 <Cale> Perhaps we need to start with a net
19:33:43 <shachaf> That would be a net gain.
19:34:15 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: No, we start with a net. It's only a gain if happens after the start. hth.
19:37:15 <Cale> er...
19:38:37 <Cale> Suppose we just start with a nested bunch of open sets, and demand that there be a corresponding nested sequence of open subsets of them each of which is homeomorphic to R^n -- nope, still doesn't work
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19:39:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[G*]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=49928&oldid=44687 * TuxCrafting * (-18) Are you joking?
19:40:36 <shachaf> The idea of a "local" property seems pretty important in topology.
19:40:48 <shachaf> So I'd hope that there's an easy way to express properties like that in general.
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20:12:32 <hppavilion[1]> his532
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20:52:01 <hppavilion[1]> Math notation proposal: Henceforth, «name» unambiguously means a variable named "name", rather than the product of the variables n, a, m, and e (or Euler's constant)
20:52:19 <hppavilion[1]> Without guillemets, it's up to the particular style
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21:01:53 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1]
21:01:56 <Phantom_Hoover> >math
21:01:59 <Phantom_Hoover> >notation
21:02:00 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: The white brackets in Neoletters (⦅ ⦆ ⦇ ⦈ ⟦ ⟧ ⦃ ⦄ ⦉ ⦊ ⟬ ⟭) look a little off; kind of ugly... not sure if there's a way to improve it in the exact resolution and style of the font, but I thought I'd say so...
21:02:02 <Phantom_Hoover> >unambiguous
21:02:08 <Phantom_Hoover> you have made a fatal mistake i'm afraid
21:02:13 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: What are you doing?
21:02:14 <hppavilion[1]> Oh
21:02:16 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Why?
21:02:31 <hppavilion[1]> Also, I said 'unambiguously'
21:02:32 <hppavilion[1]> hth
21:02:48 <Phantom_Hoover> maths notation is never, ever unambiguous no matter how hard anyone tries
21:03:14 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: programming language notation for maths is unambiguous
21:03:16 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: And don't worry, it'll still be ambiguous WITHOUT guillemets, and somebody will inevitably invent a constradictory use for guillemets (bitshifts seem likely, as do string delimination)
21:03:27 <hppavilion[1]> s/constra/contra/
21:04:07 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, and nobody uses it unless they're working on computer science
21:04:20 <ais523> right
21:04:32 <ais523> when I translated an example from my thesis into a bunch of programming languages during my PhD
21:04:43 <ais523> it was noticeable how much more work writing the programming-language version was than the mathematical verison
21:04:45 <ais523> *version
21:04:47 <hppavilion[1]> Oooh, here's a horrifying sentence: "Assume two categories C and D which are co-dual"
21:05:02 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: But most people are internally unambiguous, at least mostly
21:06:23 <hppavilion[1]> (Like, the order of operations is used- some people vary it, but it's usually the same- that makes it unambiguous that 3+2*4 is 3+(2*4) = 24 *OR* (3+2)*4 = 20, and it's always the same)
21:16:16 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:16:23 <quintopia> what happen
21:17:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
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21:35:11 <hppavilion[1]> I want to abuse SI...
21:35:24 <hppavilion[1]> For example, the derived unit m^s
21:41:19 <ais523> I don't think you can put non-pure-numbers in an exponent? other than possibly dB
21:41:30 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: dB?
21:41:36 <ais523> decibels
21:41:40 <hppavilion[1]> Ah
21:41:46 <int-e> ais523: have you played with any proof assistants?
21:41:57 <hppavilion[1]> The unit ^1/2 (or maybe it's -1/2) is used in electromagnetism or something
21:42:05 <ais523> int-e: actually using them, no; however one of my former coworkers was an Agda expert
21:42:07 <hppavilion[1]> (m^(1/2), I believe)
21:42:09 <ais523> so I've seen them in use beforen ow
21:43:58 <hppavilion[1]> It's for material science, I believe
21:44:32 <ais523> dioptres are hard enough to understand
21:44:49 <ais523> I can do the maths but I still don't really have an intuitive understanding of what a dioptre is
21:44:59 <hppavilion[1]> I need a unit for stress/strain/stressing
21:45:09 <hppavilion[1]> It would be m/m in SI, but that's just unitless
21:46:26 <Taneb> hertz per second
21:46:33 <Taneb> ...*hertz-seconds
21:46:43 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: ...yes, hertz-seconds are nice
21:48:16 <ais523> hertz-seconds are just frequency × duration, so they count a number of occurrences
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21:48:25 <ais523> therefore you shouldn't be surprised that the result is a pure number
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21:48:34 <shachaf> I made the argument that speeds ought to be measured in e.g. miles per second, or hours per hundred kilometres, or something.
21:48:44 <hppavilion[1]> You should also give it in femto hertz-seconds, multiplied by a billiard
21:48:45 <shachaf> Er, seconds per mile.
21:48:58 <ais523> shachaf: dioptres per hertz?
21:49:09 <shachaf> time/distance seems more reasonable in a lot of ways than distance/time
21:49:13 <hppavilion[1]> (billiard being long for short quadrillion)
21:49:59 <izalove> shachaf: explain why
21:50:26 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: For measuring what/
21:50:38 <hppavilion[1]> *?
21:50:40 <shachaf> For many of the same reasons that people argue for measuring fuel usage in litres per hundred kilometres.
21:50:41 <hppavilion[1]> Speed?
21:50:51 <shachaf> Yes. Or inverse speed, whatever.
21:51:04 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Oh, is this for the same reason as a(+)b = 1/((1/a)+(1/b))?
21:51:08 <shachaf> time/distance makes sense because you're paying time, and getting distance in return.
21:52:39 <shachaf> If I'm in a vehicle moving at 30 seconds per mile, I pay 60 seconds to move 2 miles.
21:53:10 <Taneb> Force-second-seconds per kilogram-meter
21:53:25 <Taneb> (I have no idea what anyone would want that for)
21:53:50 <ais523> shachaf: 30 seconds per mile is 120mph, that's a pretty fast speed…
21:54:08 <shachaf> OK, I mixed it up at the last moment.
21:54:18 <ais523> I'm not even sure that speed is legally possible via any means of surface transport in the UK, I think our fastest trains only go up to 115mph
21:54:24 <ais523> (might have misremembered that though)
21:54:27 <shachaf> Taneb: if i'm ever involved in a duel, i'll force you to be my second hth
21:54:48 <Taneb> shachaf, I would rather you didn't, duels are illegal in most jurisdictions
21:55:09 <ais523> what about nonlethal duels?
21:55:12 <ais523> say, you duel with paintball guns
21:55:27 <shachaf> they're not illegal in categorical russia
21:55:28 <Taneb> That is fine, but I am not a good shot
21:56:07 <hppavilion[1]> Also abusing SI: the unit (m+s)
21:56:18 <hppavilion[1]> (I feel like + is probably alternation. As always.)
21:56:18 <shachaf> ais523: https://twitter.com/wolfpupy/status/270056061787074560 hth
21:56:47 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: I find it most sensible if I interpret it as disjoint union
21:56:51 <ais523> although it's still ridiculous
21:56:53 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I figure that's it
21:57:07 <shachaf> ais523: Apparently there are 140mph trains in the UK now.
21:57:17 <ais523> oh right, I forgot about HS1
21:57:17 <hppavilion[1]> (L+1)/T is a measurement of speed (L/T) AND frequency (1/T)
21:57:32 <ais523> with all the row there's been about HS2 I forgot there was a high-speed line open already
21:58:05 <ais523> to be fair, I should have guessed from the name
22:09:40 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
22:11:16 <shachaf> What are united values, anyway?
22:11:27 <shachaf> Are they vectors?
22:12:08 <shachaf> Are they some sort of field extension?
22:19:25 <shachaf> Vectors don't really work because you can multiply and divide them.
22:24:24 <ais523> disjoint unions can be multiplied and divided pointwise
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22:25:25 <shachaf> What do you mean by disjoint unions?
22:26:27 <shachaf> I mean, in this context.
22:26:38 <hppavilion[1]> What IS this context?
22:26:50 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe I should add units to the whole Leibniz thing I was wondering about. y = f(t) m; x = f(t) s
22:27:01 <shachaf> dy = f'(t) dt m?
22:27:21 <shachaf> Er, s/x = f/x = g/
22:28:03 <shachaf> Anyway, thinking of it as a ring extension or something seems to work pretty well? Just a synthetic element.
22:29:02 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( n squared: the area of a square n units on edge -> n triangled: the area of an equilateral triangle n units on edge )
22:30:41 <ais523> shachaf: a disjoint union is bascially like a C union except that it knows which value is set at any given time
22:30:53 <shachaf> I know what a disjoint union is in general.
22:31:20 <shachaf> I don't know what you mean in this case. But maybe now I see.
22:31:24 <ais523> (m + s) would be a disjoint union that can either be set to a number of metres, or to a number of seconds, and knows which
22:31:36 <ais523> I'm not convinced it's useful but it does at least seem to be well-defined
22:31:59 <shachaf> What about m - s?
22:32:55 <shachaf> Presumably either metres or seconds, with a multiplier on the latter.
22:33:04 <shachaf> OK, I guess 5 m = 5 m + 0 s
22:33:16 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Apparently, tri(n) = n*sqrt(n^2-(n/2)^2)/2 )
22:34:13 <shachaf> But then I'm not sure what sort of disjoint union that is.
22:34:37 <shachaf> Unless you disallow 0 s somehow.
22:36:28 <ais523> shachaf: no, not "5m + 0s" if that's addition
22:36:46 <ais523> it's just that 5m is an instance of type (m+s), and 10s would also be an instnace of type (m+s)
22:36:56 <ais523> and 0m and 0s are different instances of the type
22:37:13 <shachaf> OK.
22:37:14 <hppavilion[1]> The kth n-(d-tope) number. Ultimate generalization.
22:37:23 <shachaf> I think that's quite different from what hpp was talking about.
22:37:48 <hppavilion[1]> No idea what's going on at this point
22:37:52 <hppavilion[1]> I'll have to reread
22:38:51 <shachaf> I guess I was assuming some sort of linearity thing.
22:38:53 <shachaf> That 0 s = 0
22:39:03 <shachaf> But that doesn't work with e.g. degrees C or F.
22:40:11 <ais523> hppavilion[1]: a definition of (m+s) as a disjoint union of metres and seconds
22:41:19 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: OK, so like cartesian sum?
22:41:51 <ais523> disjoint union is the dual of cartesian product
22:41:51 <ais523> I haven't heard it called cartesian sum before now though
22:42:05 <hppavilion[1]> Hm... Position is where you are and is measured in m**k in k-space (here, ** is different from ^; ^ is power, ** is tuple). Let's just go with 1-space.
22:42:32 <shachaf> I thought hpp was talking about adding a value like 5 m to a value like 3 s
22:42:47 <shachaf> But on rereading I misunderstood, actually.
22:42:57 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That would presumably be 8(m+s) or somesuch
22:42:58 <shachaf> That's quite different from 5 (m+s)
22:43:19 <shachaf> No, 5m+3s isn't (5+3)(m+s)
22:43:26 <hppavilion[1]> I figured it'd be alternation (like Kleene), ais523 went with cartesian sum.
22:43:39 <hppavilion[1]> (I insist that it must be called "cartesian sum", just to make it clear how this is)
22:43:50 <hppavilion[1]> (Is there such thing as cartesian power by this logic?)
22:43:54 <shachaf> But I'd expect that m+s = 1m+1s
22:43:55 <ais523> function
22:43:56 <hppavilion[1]> Position is measured in m. Velocity is the derivative of position with respect to time- how much your position changes with respect to time- and is measured m/s
22:44:16 <ais523> metres to the power of seconds is a function from seconds to metres
22:44:18 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Ah, good point...
22:44:52 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: The answer for 1m+1s, intuition tells me, is probably related to that one math scene from a movie I can't remember
22:45:50 <hppavilion[1]> Where they were saying "if it takes Alice 3 hours to paint a house and Bob 4 hours, how long will it take Alice and Bob to paint 1 house together?"
22:46:07 <hppavilion[1]> And I suddenly can't remember how you find the solution, but I'm sure I can derive it in a few seconds
22:46:22 <ais523> Alice paints ⅓ of a house per hour, Bob paints ¼ of a house per hour
22:46:36 <ais523> thus they paint 7/12 of a house per hour together (painting parallelizes well)
22:46:41 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: shhhh let me find it
22:46:46 <ais523> and can complete the job in 12/7 of an hour
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22:46:57 <ais523> this is just your harmonic sum operator :-P
22:49:30 <hppavilion[1]> OK, I got it
22:49:40 <hppavilion[1]> ais523: I figured that would be it :P
22:50:13 <shachaf> Another common operation is 1-(1-p)(1-q)
22:50:58 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: That's fuzzy OR preserving De Morgan, iirc?
22:51:08 <shachaf> Sure?
22:51:32 -!- ais523 has quit.
22:51:41 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It's how you do OR in fuzzy logic, where instead of 0 or 1, you have any real number in the interval from 0 to 1, inclusive
22:52:49 <shachaf> I would say probability rather than fuzzy logic.
22:53:35 <hppavilion[1]> For fuzzy values U, V which correspond to real numbers u, v, not U = 1-u, U and V = u*v, U or V = not ((not U) and (not V)) = 1-(1-u)(1-v)
22:55:01 <shachaf> The point is that it's kind of like a dual of that harmonic sum.
22:55:08 <hppavilion[1]> Ah, yes it is
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22:55:29 <shachaf> Maybe there's a demorgan-style interepretation of it.
22:55:33 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Not to be confused with harmonic difference?
22:55:49 <hppavilion[1]> a(-)b = 1/((1/a)-(1/b))
22:55:50 <shachaf> The dual of product isn't division.
22:55:59 <hppavilion[1]> Well yes
22:56:00 <hppavilion[1]> Of course
22:56:02 <shachaf> Well, this isn't really a dual anyway.
22:56:48 -!- pikhq has joined.
22:57:15 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( Trigonometric sum x<+>y: asin(sin(x)+sin(y)) )
22:57:23 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Catslash/Parallel_sum
22:57:36 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: A more interesting operation uses atanh
22:57:59 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I figured it probably wouldn't be sine; especially because you need the cosine equivalent anyway
22:58:16 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapidity
22:58:40 <shachaf> This is how you add velocities.
22:58:52 <shachaf> In the real world. :-( The real world is a mess.
22:59:21 <hppavilion[1]> Classes are over for the day
22:59:25 <hppavilion[1]> Must now leave
22:59:27 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity-addition_formula
23:00:04 <shachaf> But this person is answering all your questions, yo
23:00:21 <Warrigal> Hey, there's an esolang contest.
23:00:24 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to tswett.
23:02:57 <tswett> I wanna participate.
23:04:00 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:04:50 <tswett> Go Team Warrigal!
23:05:33 <tswett> Does anyone know anything about the organizers?
23:06:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:08:26 -!- pikhq has joined.
23:08:42 * pikhq flips off Century Link
23:09:47 <pikhq> Near as I can tell, they just like to drop connection entirely on a whim.
23:15:44 -!- moonythedwarf_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:23:42 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:31:52 <shachaf> `welcoerjan
23:31:53 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: welcoerjan: not found
23:32:00 <shachaf> What! I thought that one existed.
23:32:08 <shachaf> `` ls bin/*rjan*
23:32:09 <HackEgo> bin/oerjan \ bin/quoerjan \ bin/quørjan \ bin/translatetoerjan \ bin/zalgoerjan
23:32:26 <shachaf> `quoerjan
23:32:27 <HackEgo> 593) <oerjan> elliott: it occurs to me that `? welcome is atypical: its information is actually true.
23:32:39 <oerjan> that must be old
23:32:54 <oerjan> `quørjan
23:32:55 <shachaf> There are at least three indicators that it's old.
23:32:55 <HackEgo> 1158) <ørjan> `quote 1146 <HackEgo> 1146) <ørjan> OKAY \ 100) <ørjan> alise: mainly it's the fact it blows so hard i cannot avoid hitting the walls of the thing, which completely gøs against my basic public toilet hygiene principles \ 346) <elliott_> I'm not even going to try and understand what you're proposing. <ørjan> i understand it perf
23:33:05 <oerjan> thought so
23:33:47 <shachaf> isn't it great when everything gøs the way you expected
23:34:22 <oerjan> еp
23:35:15 * oerjan whistles suspiciously
23:35:43 <shachaf> `` doag bin/quørjan | tac
23:35:45 <HackEgo> 2013-01-12 <shachaf> cp -a bin/quoerjan bin/qu\xc3\xb8rjan \ 2013-01-12 <FreeFull> revert 4 \ 2013-01-12 <elliott> revert 1492 \ 2013-01-22 <fizzie> sed -i -e \'s#shuf#shuf | sed s/oe/\xc3\xb8/g#\' bin/qu\xc3\xb8rjan # department of redundancy removal department (it was identical to quoerjan) \ 2013-02-13 <ais523> revert 3 \ 2013-02-13 <ais523> re
23:35:57 <FreeFull> I'm looking for a song, I don't remember the lyrics or name. https://clyp.it/ajmvcdqh It went something like this. First half is a vocal part, second half is an electric guitar part
23:36:06 <FreeFull> Might as well post this here, since I got highlighted =P
23:36:51 <shachaf> fizzie: s/department of redundancy removal department/department of removal department/ hth
23:37:03 * oerjan doesn't recognize that
23:37:19 <oerjan> needs more vocals, at least
23:37:33 <shachaf> ?
23:37:58 <oerjan> FreeFull's link
23:38:08 <\oren\> guten morgen
23:38:23 <oerjan> Guten Abend
23:38:38 <FreeFull> Lemme try to fix it up
23:38:55 <oerjan> there's of course the entirely likely possibility i don't know it
23:39:18 <oerjan> have you tried one of the websites for such things
23:40:35 <oerjan> `cat bin/culprits
23:40:36 <HackEgo> hoag "$@" | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | sed "s/.$/\x0F&/" | xargs
23:41:14 <oerjan> `cat bin/doag
23:41:15 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\n" -- "$@"
23:41:30 <oerjan> `cat bin/hoag
23:41:31 <HackEgo> hg log --removed --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
23:42:25 <oerjan> `cat bin/hog
23:42:26 <HackEgo> hg log --template "{desc}\n" -- "$@"
23:42:36 <shachaf> hoag = handsome doag, doag = delicious hoag?
23:42:44 <oerjan> `` cat bin/?ow*
23:42:45 <HackEgo> doag "wisdom/$1" \ #!/bin/sh \ echo $1: You\'ve been downvoted! \ hoag "wisdom/$1" \ #!/bin/bash \ tr A-Z a-z | sed 's/Ø/ø/g' \ lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; cat "$f"; done \ #!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr \)\( \(\)
23:42:48 <FreeFull> oerjan: https://clyp.it/oufnawod This is closer to being accurate
23:42:56 <oerjan> `` cat bin/?ow?
23:42:57 <HackEgo> doag "wisdom/$1" \ hoag "wisdom/$1"
23:43:07 <oerjan> `` ls bin/?ow*
23:43:08 <HackEgo> bin/dowg \ bin/downvote \ bin/howg \ bin/lowercase \ bin/now \ bin/wow
23:43:49 <shachaf> `cat bin/wow
23:43:50 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rev | tr \)\( \(\)
23:43:57 <shachaf> `cat bin/now
23:43:58 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; cat "$f"; done
23:44:13 <shachaf> `doag bin/now
23:44:15 <HackEgo> 2016-09-25 <fizzie> revert 58b9ee8f97a7 \ 2016-09-25 <jeffl35> ` rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban \ 2016-06-12 <shachaf> mkx bin/now//lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; cat "$f"; done
23:44:23 <shachaf> `now
23:44:24 <HackEgo> wisdom/tanebvention//Tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, necessity, Go, Windows 98, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, the triverse, metar, weetoflakes, Tanebventions, persistence, the BBC, progress, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: math. He never invents anything involving sex.
23:44:54 <oerjan> `mkx bin/hlnp//hg log "$@" | sed 's/.>/\x0F&/g'
23:44:54 <shachaf> How about a one-line diff program?
23:44:57 <HackEgo> bin/hlnp
23:45:08 <shachaf> It would highlight deleted text in red and new text in green, or something.
23:45:30 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/hg log/hlnp/' bin/hoag
23:45:33 <HackEgo> No output.
23:45:41 <oerjan> `hoag bin/hoag
23:45:43 <HackEgo> ​<oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/hg log/hlnp/\' bin/hoag \ <fizzie> revert 58b9ee8f97a7 \ <jeffl35> ` rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban \ <shachaf> sled bin/hoag//s/"\\$@"/-- "$@"/ \ <shachaf> ` mv bin/ho{gue,ag}
23:45:55 <oerjan> shachaf: did that work
23:45:57 <shachaf> Oh, right, hoag = hogue
23:46:07 <oerjan> as in, you were not pinged
23:46:13 <shachaf> I wasn't pinged.
23:46:15 <oerjan> good
23:46:19 <shachaf> But it did mess up my terminal.
23:46:26 <shachaf> But I think that was just HackEgo's zero-width space.
23:46:31 <oerjan> argh
23:46:36 <oerjan> well yes, it uses ^O
23:46:58 <oerjan> ...but then all hoag uses must do that (except empty output)
23:47:40 <oerjan> `sled bin/culprits//s/sed.*/xargs
23:47:41 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 13: unterminated `s' command
23:47:53 <oerjan> `sled bin/culprits//s/sed.*/xargs/
23:47:55 <HackEgo> bin/culprits//hoag "$@" | awk '{print substr($1,2,length($1)-2)}' | xargs
23:48:07 <oerjan> `culprits bin/hoag
23:48:08 <HackEgo> oerjan fizzie jeffl35 shachaf shachaf
23:49:32 <oerjan> `` sed -i 's/hg log/hlnp/' bin/{doag,hog}
23:49:34 <HackEgo> No output.
23:49:57 <oerjan> `doag bin/doag
23:49:58 <HackEgo> 2016-10-10 <oerjan> ` sed -i \'s/hg log/hlnp/\' bin/{doag,hog} \ 2016-09-25 <fizzie> revert 58b9ee8f97a7 \ 2016-09-25 <jeffl35> ` rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban \ 2016-06-27 <shachaf> mkx bin/doag//hg log --removed --template "{date|shortdate} {desc}\\n" -- "$@"
23:50:26 <oerjan> there, now they noping uniformly.
23:50:30 <shachaf> `wdiff
23:50:32 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wdiff: not found
23:50:33 <shachaf> hm
23:50:41 <oerjan> `` grep -l 'hg log' bin/*
23:50:45 <HackEgo> bin/before \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/hlnp \ bin/lastfiles
23:51:14 <oerjan> `` grep 'hg log' bin/*
23:51:15 <HackEgo> bin/before:lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done \ bin/culprits-ng:exec hg log -l 512 --template "{desc}\0" -- "$@" | perl -0ne '/^<([^>]*)>/ and print"$1 "' \ bin/hlnp:hg log "$@" | sed 's/.>/\x0F&/g' \ bin/lastfiles:hg log --removed -l 1 --temp
23:51:20 <shachaf> `` rgrep -l '\bhg\b' bin
23:51:21 <HackEgo> bin/lastfiles \ bin/lastwisdoms \ bin/emmental \ bin/macro \ bin/jq \ bin/hlnp \ bin/culprits-ng \ bin/searchlog \ bin/hurl \ bin/url \ bin/undo \ bin/7za \ bin/tclkit \ bin/before \ bin/word \ bin/units
23:52:26 <oerjan> `before
23:52:29 <HackEgo> bin/doag bin/hog//bin/doag bin/hog: no such file in rev a3d0764a84b0
23:52:41 <oerjan> bah
23:52:48 <oerjan> `mk test//huh
23:52:50 <shachaf> `cat bin/before
23:52:50 <HackEgo> test
23:52:50 <HackEgo> lastfiles "$@" | while read f; do echo -n "$f//"; hg cat -r "$(hg log --removed --template '{rev}\n' "$f" | tail -n+2 | head -n1)" "$f"; done
23:52:55 <oerjan> `before
23:52:58 <HackEgo> test//ha
23:53:05 <oerjan> `lastfiles
23:53:07 <HackEgo> test
23:53:16 <shachaf> `cat bin/lastfiles
23:53:17 <HackEgo> hg log --removed -l 1 --template "{files}\n" -- "$@"
23:53:19 <oerjan> `cat bin/culprits-ng
23:53:20 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ exec hg log -l 512 --template "{desc}\0" -- "$@" | perl -0ne '/^<([^>]*)>/ and print"$1 "'
23:53:35 <shachaf> `` hg log --removed -l 2 --template "{files}\n" --
23:53:36 <HackEgo> test \ bin/doag bin/hog
23:53:48 <shachaf> Oh.
23:53:50 <oerjan> `culprits-ng bin/culprits-ng
23:53:51 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/culprits-ng: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/culprits-ng: cannot execute: Permission denied
23:53:55 <shachaf> How are you supposed to tell the files apart?
23:53:59 <oerjan> wat
23:54:09 <oerjan> `` ls -l bin/culprits-ng
23:54:09 <shachaf> `` ls -l bin/culprits-ng
23:54:10 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 101 Sep 25 20:32 bin/culprits-ng
23:54:10 <HackEgo> ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 101 Sep 25 20:32 bin/culprits-ng
23:54:17 <oerjan> `rm bin/culprits-ng
23:54:19 <HackEgo> No output.
23:54:20 <shachaf> ?
23:54:28 <shachaf> Wasn't that b_jonas's pet project?
23:54:33 <shachaf> you can't delete people's pets
23:54:37 <oerjan> `doag bin/culprits-ng
23:54:39 <HackEgo> 2016-10-10 <oerjan> rm bin/culprits-ng \ 2016-09-25 <fizzie> revert 58b9ee8f97a7 \ 2016-09-25 <jeffl35> ` rm --no-preserve-root -rfv / # testing, plz no ban \ 2016-09-25 <fizzie> revert 942e964c81c1 \ 2016-09-25 <evilipse> ` chmod 777 / -R \ 2016-02-25 <b_jonas> `` chmod 644 bin/culprits-ng \ 2016-02-25 <b_jonas> perl -e($o="bin/culprits-ng"
23:54:51 <oerjan> oh right
23:55:01 <oerjan> `revert
23:55:08 <oerjan> `cat bin/culprits-ng
23:55:16 <HackEgo> rm: cannot remove `/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/env/.hg/store/data/canary.orig': Is a directory \ Done.
23:55:17 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ exec hg log -l 512 --template "{desc}\0" -- "$@" | perl -0ne '/^<([^>]*)>/ and print"$1 "'
23:55:28 <oerjan> obviously nothing uses it anyhow
23:56:20 <shachaf> someone should fix lastfiles (oerjan)
23:57:08 <oerjan> FreeFull: ok still no clue
23:57:17 <FreeFull> Thanks for trying
23:57:30 <shachaf> `fetch http://mirror.keystealth.org/gnu/wdiff/wdiff-latest.tar.gz
23:57:40 <HackEgo> 2016-10-10 22:57:11 URL:http://mirror.keystealth.org/gnu/wdiff/wdiff-latest.tar.gz [1478567/1478567] -> "wdiff-latest.tar.gz" [1]
23:58:06 <shachaf> `` mkdir tmp/wdiff; cp wdiff-latest.tar.gz tmp/wdiff/
23:58:07 <HackEgo> No output.
23:58:27 <oerjan> <shachaf> How about a one-line diff program? <-- you go right ahead ;P
23:58:47 <shachaf> `` cd tmp/wdiff/; tar -xzvf wdiff-latest.tar.gz
23:58:49 <HackEgo> wdiff-1.2.2/ \ wdiff-1.2.2/tests/ \ wdiff-1.2.2/tests/cluster.at \ wdiff-1.2.2/tests/testsuite.at \ wdiff-1.2.2/tests/testsuite \ wdiff-1.2.2/tests/wdiff.at \ wdiff-1.2.2/tests/package.m4 \ wdiff-1.2.2/config.h.in \ wdiff-1.2.2/README \ wdiff-1.2.2/Makefile.am \ wdiff-1.2.2/COPYING \ wdiff-1.2.2/configure.ac \ wdiff-1.2.2/src/ \ wdiff-1.2.2/src/wdi
23:59:01 <shachaf> `` cd tmp/wdiff/; ./configure
23:59:01 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: ./configure: No such file or directory
23:59:07 <shachaf> hm
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