←2017-03 2017-04 2017-05→ ↑2017 ↑all
2017-04-01
00:02:37 <hppavilion[1]> To be precise: Where ςx indicates the prime factorization of x expressed as a bag (multiset) and M{e}- where M is a multiset and e is some value- represents the degree of e in M (M{e} = 0 if e ∉ M): ςgcd(x,y){p} = max(ςx{p}, ςy{p})
00:02:59 <hppavilion[1]> (ς has higher precedence than _{_}, to be clear)
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00:17:02 <FireFly> Huh, never thought of that
00:17:21 <FireFly> Well, it makes sense though
00:18:32 <FireFly> well, hrm
00:18:48 <FireFly> isn't it rather basically intersection and union of prime factors?
00:19:02 <FireFly> where you define that sensibly for bags
00:19:50 <FireFly> your syntax confuses me
00:20:52 <oerjan> <shachaf> What, so scripts that rerun old commands from history will have to discriminate between pre- and post-fix commands? <-- iirc they already have the problem that `run doesn't include run in its commit messages.
00:21:14 <alercah> FireFly: that's because hppavilion[1] is the sort of person who uses final sigma as a variable name
00:21:14 <shachaf> OH, right.
00:21:17 <shachaf> So it's hopeless.
00:21:27 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: It's not a variable name
00:21:50 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Oh, yeah, that too. Forgot that I'd also thought of it that way, and that that way is better
00:22:01 <FireFly> hppavilion[1]: oh, I guess it's min/max of the powers of each corresponding prime factor
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00:22:25 <hppavilion[1]> FireFly: Yeah, it is. Which is also a reasonable definition for intersection and union, respectively
00:22:34 <hppavilion[1]> (Though, union could also be defined as addition, so...)
00:22:57 <alercah> hppavilion[1]: function, whatever
00:23:21 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: I kind of think of it as an atomic symbol like +, but it's basically a function, yes
00:31:14 <FireFly> I think of + as a function
00:31:55 <shachaf> Addition being multiplication?
00:37:45 <olsner> shapr: have you heard people talk about 3.5" or 5.25" diskettes in swedish? were they three point five or three and a half inch? (also five point 25 vs five and a quarter, if you're old enough for that)
00:37:55 <oerjan> the positive integers are isomorphic to N^N as a monoid (with * -> +), or as a lattice with gcd, lcm -> min, max.
00:38:41 <shachaf> olsner: in hebrew it's three and a half hth
00:39:23 <oerjan> hm if you do a\b = lcm a b/b you get bag difference.
00:39:49 <oerjan> well, something like it.
00:40:08 <shachaf> the positive naturals are the free commutative monoid generated by the primes
00:40:13 <oerjan> meaning the lattice is distributive.
00:40:24 <shachaf> Lattice?
00:40:33 <shachaf> the naturals are the free semilattice generated by the powers of two
00:40:44 <shachaf> what sorts of other free algebraic structures are the naturals?
00:41:12 <oerjan> shachaf: i told you, as did hppavilion[1]: gcd and lcm.
00:41:24 <Phantom_Hoover> they're the free monoid on one generator right
00:41:27 <oerjan> they are also a lattice.
00:42:05 <shachaf> Oh, that lattice.
00:42:12 <shachaf> But it's not free.
00:42:20 <shachaf> Yes, they're also the free monoid on one generator.
00:43:46 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: lcm a b/b is 1.
00:45:07 <shachaf> lcm would not be very useful if that was the case hth
00:45:20 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It's true
00:45:34 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, no, it's a
00:45:38 <hppavilion[1]> gcd a b/b is 1
00:45:56 <hppavilion[1]> Since b/b = 1
00:46:18 <shachaf> plz lrn2precedence
00:46:19 <hppavilion[1]> (I don't care what your conventions are, the first thought is that b/b associates before functions, so it's better)
00:46:20 <shachaf> as the kids say
00:46:35 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I am the kids and have not once said that
00:46:45 <shachaf> your first thought is wrong and you should feel wrong
00:46:49 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: What we're saying is "lrn2president", and it's just to Donald.
00:47:09 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It looks righter, so you should be unambiguous or go with the straightforwarder one.
00:47:24 <hppavilion[1]> infix > curried functions.
00:47:30 <shachaf> function application has the highest presidence
00:47:38 <shachaf> nothing has been curried here
00:47:39 <hppavilion[1]> f x+1 = f (x+1)
00:47:42 <hppavilion[1]> (f x)+1
00:47:51 <shachaf> Of course not.
00:47:53 <shachaf> You're saying nonsense.
00:48:32 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Yeah they have. If you're using unparenthetical functions, then whether it takes precedence is context-defined, and there are different natural-seeming protocols
00:48:59 * hppavilion[1] . ø Ø ( This isn't even a semantic argument, it's just a syntactic one )
00:49:23 <shachaf> I'm not sure what "infix > curried" functions are.
00:49:28 <shachaf> That seems like an error.
00:49:51 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: In this case, > is precedence.
00:50:02 <hppavilion[1]> ...
00:50:03 <hppavilion[1]> dammit.
00:50:10 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I see what you did there.
00:50:14 * hppavilion[1] concedes
00:51:22 <shachaf> Haskell puts function application at, I think, the third-highest precedence.
00:51:25 <shachaf> Or was it fourth?
00:51:36 <shachaf> But it's more precedential than any infix operator.
00:53:30 <Phantom_Hoover> what are first and second
00:53:40 <Phantom_Hoover> bracket is one of them i take it
00:53:55 <shachaf> I don't remember.
00:54:10 <shachaf> I think it was a{} construction and a{} modification or something like that.
00:54:17 <shachaf> And a{} in pattern-matching context?
00:54:23 <shachaf> Those are three, kind of.
00:55:23 <shachaf> I think there was something else.
00:57:06 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: ...lambdas?
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01:56:29 <Cale> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA_DrBwkiJA tom7 has done it again :D
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03:14:26 <hppavilion[1]> So that bill that lets companies sell your private data
03:14:35 <hppavilion[1]> I think I might have a solution (for us US residents)
03:15:14 <hppavilion[1]> Take the Ad Nauseam approach: Make a program that constantly scours the internet for bizarre content and use that so your data is worthless- almost none of it relates to you
03:17:27 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, wait
03:17:49 <hppavilion[1]> The Child Protection Act probably forbids them from distributing content like this, so any house with children might be safe.
03:20:41 <pikhq> The sad part is, the bill doesn't let companies sell your private data. It *stops the FCC* from stopping companies from selling your private data before the new regulations to that effect would go into effecct.
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03:21:04 <pikhq> i.e. it doesn't quite change the status quo, it just went "Fuck, that regulation is clearly a bad idea."
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03:49:03 <hppavilion[1]> pikhq: Oh, well yeah.
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03:58:27 <hppavilion[1]> __del__( self ) : A blog.
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06:05:03 <zzo38> {-} Conspiracy ;; Double agenda ;; Permanents with each chosen name have protection from the other chosen name.
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08:45:04 <izabera> if you're developing a game with a fictional world
08:45:13 <izabera> and you have a character that looks like a koala
08:45:20 <izabera> is it racist to give it an australian accent?
08:57:29 <rdococ> it's a fictional world, does australia even exist?
08:57:43 <izabera> not in that world
08:57:59 <izabera> hence my question
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09:11:38 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: It is officially the future as of now | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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10:11:23 <int-e> izabera: I'd say no; generally giving your characters certain accents isn't racist by itself in my view. (Note that, for example, Jar Jar Binks caused upset not because the particular accent was used, but because it was given to a very stupid (though incredibly lucky) character and people took offense at that stereotypical association.)
10:12:20 <shachaf> Smarter than a koala, though, I imagine.
10:13:03 <int-e> Heh, you're clearly not reading "A Girl and Her Fed"
10:18:45 <int-e> (Meet Speedy: http://agirlandherfed.com/1.96.html [warning, that strip's a remake and if you actually want to read the whole thing you'll have to deal with art that looks like http://agirlandherfed.com/1.98.html for some time.])
10:22:59 <int-e> (FWIW, treating a koala like a stupid little kid because he's a koala? That's racist ;-) )
10:24:24 <shachaf> What about a fictional species?
10:24:46 <shachaf> int-e: you should help me roll these sausages twh
10:26:27 <int-e> I've been distracted from Torment by Thistleweed Park.
10:27:18 <shachaf> Ah, I got the email about that the other day.
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10:28:58 <int-e> And somehow I ended up paying the full retail price (it's not more than $20 after all, for an adventure game! (technically, of course, it's €20 minus a future discount...))
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10:32:08 <shachaf> Future discount?
10:34:17 <int-e> gog has regional pricing, but somehow tries to compensate for this by giving store credit for sales where the price in EUR is is the same amount as the price in USD.
10:34:41 <shachaf> Ah.
10:35:07 <shachaf> I don't know much I paid, but it was in 2014.
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15:11:07 <boily> `wisdom
15:11:09 <HackEgo> guestbot//guestbot is nobody
15:15:02 <boily> fungot: 🍐
15:15:02 <fungot> boily: oy. i'll get to move around a subroutine pointer. getting rid of currying was not part of the game loop starts.
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15:33:16 <wob_jonas> boily: re your question many days ago, the commands are `random-card and `card-by-name
15:33:51 <wob_jonas> the first one searches in the full text as listed in the Yawgatog-formatted oracle file, and prints a random matching card, the second one searches only at the start of the card name and prints all matches
15:34:11 <wob_jonas> `random-card infect
15:34:12 <HackEgo> Infectious Rage \ 1R \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +2/-1. \ When enchanted creature dies, choose a creature at random Infectious Rage can enchant. Return Infectious Rage to the battlefield attached to that creature. \ JUD-U
15:34:12 <int-e> `cwlprits guestbot
15:34:19 <HackEgo> guestböt
15:34:35 <int-e> that entry seems kind of pointless
15:36:11 <wob_jonas> but it has two points on the o
15:36:46 <wob_jonas> no wait, that's the cwlprïts only
15:37:25 <rdococ> 'to' = 2; 'for' = 4; /eıt/ = 8; 'fuck' = 4k;
15:37:33 <int-e> `unidecode 
15:37:35 <HackEgo> U+F105 - No such unicode character name in database \ UTF-8: ef 84 85 UTF-16BE: f105 Decimal: &#61701; \  () \ Uppercase: U+F105 \ Category: Co (Other, Private Use) \ Bidi: L (Left-to-Right)
15:37:36 <rdococ> 4k is nothing but marketing crap confirmed
15:38:10 <int-e> `rm wisdom/guestbot
15:38:12 <HackEgo> No output.
15:38:58 <boily> wellob_jonas. tdh!
15:43:33 <boily> `random-card chicken
15:43:34 <HackEgo> Fowl Play \ 2U \ Enchant Creature \ Enchanted creature loses all abilities and is a 1/1 creature that counts as a Chicken. \ UG-C
15:43:44 <boily> :D
15:45:16 <int-e> nice flavor text, no pun intended: "I feel like chicken tonight!"
15:46:24 <rdococ> Everyone knows, when you put "no pun intended", that the pun is intended.
15:47:13 <boily> int-ello, rdochelloc.
15:47:17 <int-e> I wasn't actively looking for the pun, it just happened and I noticed.
15:48:41 <rdococ> But puns are never a bad thing.
15:49:59 * boily discreetly oils his mapole and gives it a few practice swings
15:54:18 * rdococ discretely takes some bamboo sticks and string to construct a bamboo shield.
15:54:21 <int-e> boily: I rather suspect that the pun was first made by the M:tG people.
15:55:10 * rdococ licks int-e. tastes like chicken.
15:59:18 <boily> int-e: I know, I have that card ^^
15:59:44 <boily> rdococ: please, no licking people in this chännel. there once was a guy called "ion" and he was licked into dissolution.
15:59:53 <boily> `? ion
15:59:54 <HackEgo> ion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:00:09 <boily> even his wisdom disappeared...
16:05:47 <rdococ> Thanks for the valuable information. I'll keep that in mind if someone smacks me with a mapole, specimen of fish, or some other object.
16:06:08 <int-e> `` cd wisdom; echo *ion*
16:06:09 <HackEgo> abbreviation action algebraic chess notation auction bessel function cat elimination cat introduction cipation citation civilization companion cube composition cut elimination damnation defenestration dereduntantation detonation eurovision hallucination hppavilion hppavilion1 hppavilion[1] hppavilion[42] hppavilion^k hppavilion_m identity function
16:06:22 <int-e> maybe it bonded with some other ion
16:06:49 <rdococ> hipavil
16:06:59 <Taneb> `? algebraic chess notation
16:07:00 <HackEgo> Algebraic chess notation is not a notation for algebraic chess.
16:07:07 <Taneb> `? algebraic chess
16:07:08 <HackEgo> algebraic chess? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
16:07:16 <rdococ> `? cocat
16:07:17 <HackEgo> cocat? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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16:10:35 <boily> `grwp algebraic chess notation
16:10:36 <HackEgo> No output.
16:10:39 <boily> ...
16:11:00 <boily> `grwp pineapple
16:11:01 <HackEgo> anana:ananas is the real pineapple.
16:11:08 <boily> `grwp chess
16:11:09 <HackEgo> algebraic chess notation:Algebraic chess notation is not a notation for algebraic chess.
16:11:17 <boily> `? chess
16:11:18 <HackEgo> Chess is a complex boardgame, where players exchange unclear royal steaks until they decide which of them has lost. The game is recorded through the Gringmuth Moving Pineapple Notation.
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16:27:58 <fizzie> `` mv wisdom/anana wisdom/ananas
16:28:00 <HackEgo> No output.
16:38:33 <Jafet> `? banana
16:38:34 <HackEgo> Bananananananana BATMAN!
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16:58:28 <rdococ> Banatman
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18:10:16 <Taneb> `? trace
18:10:17 <HackEgo> trace? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:17:00 <boily> Tanelle.
18:17:03 <boily> `? debug
18:17:04 <HackEgo> debug? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
18:21:40 <Taneb> Hello!
18:21:46 <Taneb> I was more referring to the trace of a matrix
18:31:40 <boily> can a matrix have a debug option?
18:34:04 <rdococ> tracing the Matrix...
18:34:41 <rdococ> fracing the Tatrix...
18:35:03 * boily mapoles rdococ into the next diagonal
18:35:56 * rdococ blocks with his bamboo shield
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18:37:12 * rdococ rolled a 1d6 at random.org... the result was 3
18:37:33 * rdococ successfully blocks the mapole, but the shield is close to breaking (and being delicious).
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18:38:17 <boily> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo#Culinary
18:38:38 <boily> fungot: 2d12 + 1d8
18:38:39 <fungot> boily: programming is tough man to make a coffee while compiling) it only depends on case-sensitivity, otherwise it's trivially impossible
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18:39:42 <rdococ> hm
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18:44:01 <rdococ> contrapumpkin!
18:44:08 <rdococ> hm
18:44:25 <rdococ> something can be contradictory, but what does it mean for something to be dictory, or ntradictory?
18:49:46 <boily> ntra hth.
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18:59:32 <rdococ> DHeadshot!
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19:45:05 <Vorpal> hi
19:45:07 <Vorpal> Deewiant_: there?
19:45:33 -!- Deewiant_ has changed nick to Deewiant.
19:45:35 <Deewiant> Yes
19:46:15 <Vorpal> According to coverage tests I just did of cfunge running mycology, the tests for DATE never hit the "is not leapyear" case
19:47:31 <Deewiant> Depends on the instruction you're looking at I guess
19:47:54 <Vorpal> Ah wait, it never hits the "isn't leap year due to the 100 year rule"
19:48:03 <Vorpal> in the shared is_leap_year function
19:48:21 <Vorpal> https://codecov.io/gh/VorpalBlade/cfunge/src/fd1d838ab7198c63380450c620fc4026b04a30e9/src/fingerprints/DATE/DATE.c#L87
19:48:27 <Deewiant> Right
19:48:48 <Vorpal> nor is feb ever 28 days long in any tests
19:49:25 <rdococ> February the 29th is happy somecode cares about it
19:52:02 <int-e> "handle year 0" is cute.
19:52:37 <int-e> what about years 1 to 1582?
19:53:00 <zzo38> I think year 0 is the same as 1 BC isn't it?
19:53:12 <zzo38> (and then year -1 is 2 BC, and so on)
19:53:16 <Vorpal> int-e: I think it is a RCFunge fingerprint so it is probably badly specified
19:53:39 <Vorpal> int-e: also not all countries switched then, so you would /have/ to know which country it is in
19:54:03 <int-e> Vorpal: I know. Russia switched in 1917, was it the last one?
19:54:04 <Vorpal> it is easier and saner to suggest using the proleptic Gregorian calendar
19:54:21 <Vorpal> int-e: look up how Sweden switched, it is really insane
19:55:45 <int-e> oh, I guess zzo38 has it right. it's moving -1, encoding 1 BC, to 0.
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19:56:42 <zzo38> I think Dee wanted to switch to Gregorian calendar gradually, even though most of the royals did not like Gregorian calendar because is from the pope, but actually should have the benefit of its own idea, regardless who invented it (although, since the pope invented it, is why to call Gregorian)
19:57:02 <Vorpal> Dee?
19:57:51 <zzo38> John Dee
19:57:53 <Vorpal> zzo38: Deewiant: http://rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#DATE
19:58:07 <Vorpal> err int-e ^
19:58:13 <Vorpal> "Gregorian calendar is assumed for calendar dates"
20:03:49 <rdococ> hm
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20:14:15 <int-e> Vorpal: yeah I have to admit I was misled by the comment
20:14:51 <Vorpal> int-e: did you look up how Sweden did the fixing?
20:14:57 <Vorpal> err change
20:15:16 <Vorpal> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_calendar
20:16:55 <int-e> I may have seen this before.
20:18:12 <int-e> (yes, I have; the occasion being the mystery of the Februrary 30th date.)
20:18:30 <int-e> But thanks for the reminder, I had mostly forgotten about it.
20:20:06 <Vorpal> Also, what about the Arabic calendar?
20:20:14 <Vorpal> don't they have a completely different year?
20:23:59 <int-e> a lunar one, apparently
20:24:21 <fizzie> Thailand has a solar calendar that's got a different year.
20:24:33 <fizzie> Made reading "best before" dates on products a bit challenging.
20:24:40 <rdococ> gtg
20:24:53 <fizzie> "Years are now counted in the Buddhist Era (B.E.): พุทธศักราช, พ.ศ., rtgs: Phutthasakkarat) which is 543 years ahead of the Christian/Common Era." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_solar_calendar
20:25:23 <rdococ> Why not just count from today?
20:25:34 <rdococ> Today is the 1st of Firstmoon, 1.
20:25:37 <rdococ> gtg
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20:26:29 <fizzie> ("Different year" as in the number is different, the definition is the same.)
20:27:16 <Vorpal> fizzie: same rule for leap year as Gregorian then?
20:28:52 <fizzie> I believe so, though of course with an offset in the divisible by 4/100/400 bit. And they adjusted the day the year starts at one point, so there's one short year.
20:30:01 <Vorpal> the problem with code coverage for cfunge is there is a lot of "if (!x()) { ip_reverse(); return; } style of thing for OOM conditions and such
20:30:25 <hppavilion[1]> Has everybody here preordered their Google Gnome yet?
20:30:32 <hppavilion[1]> Or, in this channel, Google GNOME?
20:30:41 <Vorpal> hppavilion[1]: seen the video
20:30:54 <fizzie> I was thinking of just converting a Home with a paper hat.
20:31:08 <fizzie> (Also don't have a garden.)
20:33:21 <fizzie> The Finnish national railway operator (VR) and the national gambling monopoly company (Veikkaus) had a joint April Fool's joke about how you'll be able to start betting (for money) whether the trains run on time or not.
20:33:52 <fizzie> Tries a little too hard to be self-deprecating, but.
20:34:31 <fizzie> I guess technically every time you buy a ticket you're already doing that, because there's a refund if there's a long enough delay.
20:39:13 <Vorpal> fizzie: well, what are the odds on a refund?
20:39:25 <Vorpal> I guess you never get more than you put in?
20:39:30 <shachaf> Why is betting typically illegal in the US?
20:40:33 <zzo38> I have implemented Gregorian, Julian, and Discordian calendars, in TeX.
20:40:37 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yeah, the statutory one can't exceed the price you paid for the tickets. There's different tiers depending on how late they are.
20:40:57 <fizzie> Vorpal: Virgin Trains in UK gave us back more money than we paid, though.
20:41:07 <Vorpal> fizzie: oh? really?
20:41:38 <fizzie> I don't know why, they're supposed to just do the usual refunds, but they sent us back a very apologetic letter with a £50 voucher.
20:41:48 <fizzie> We'd paid something like £34 or somewhere in that ballpark.
20:43:01 <fizzie> The other time they just refunded the bank account of the debit card I had paid with, completely proactively before we could even do a claim.
20:43:11 <zzo38> Do you know? In the next Magic: the Gathering they say there is now embalming. It is activated ability of a card in a graveyard, which exiles that card and creates a token copy which is white instead of the card's colors, a Zombie in addition to the card's subtype, and lacks the card's mana cost.
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22:01:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[WysiScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51635 * B jonas * (+580) Created page with "'''WysiScript''' is a programming language in which programs are formatted (rich) text, and that completely ignores the characters in the input, caring only about their format..."
22:05:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51636&oldid=51624 * B jonas * (+17)
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23:12:47 <boily> `wisdom
23:12:48 <HackEgo> partial order//A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category.
23:13:06 <boily> . o O ( are there thick skeletons? )
23:13:23 <shachaf> Of course.
23:17:11 <boily> helloochaf. skeletal pooches.
23:18:40 <zzo38> I think I noticed that too about partial order, before
23:21:47 <Phantom_Hoover> was it someone in #esoteric who did the printable binary
23:23:20 <zzo38> Someone on here mentioned it, but I think Tom 7 made that program.
23:24:01 <Cale> `smlist
23:24:01 <HackEgo> smlist: shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy Cale
23:24:09 <Cale> http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=452
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23:33:08 <shachaf> `thanks Cale
23:33:08 <HackEgo> Thanks, Cale. Thale.
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23:39:48 <quintopia> helloily happy saturday
23:57:03 -!- ais523 has joined.
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23:58:23 <quintopia> helloerjan
23:58:36 <quintopia> holais523
23:58:49 <oerjan> hellopia
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2017-04-02
00:07:28 <boily> quinthellopia! que le samedi soit avec toi!
00:08:08 <quintopia> that seems idiomatic
00:08:10 <boily> hell§rjan, his523, hppavellon[1], Callo, hezzo38, Phantom_Helloover.
00:08:20 <quintopia> help translate?
00:08:24 <oerjan> good midnoily
00:08:29 <oerjan> wait
00:08:30 <boily> “may the Saturday be with you!”
00:08:36 <boily> wait?
00:08:55 <oerjan> it's DST here now, so it isn't midnight UTC
00:09:44 <boily> right, you DSTed.
00:09:58 -!- Zarutian has joined.
00:10:07 * boily hates DST. and PDFs. and a bunch of other TLAs.
00:10:12 <boily> Zarutellon!
00:10:40 <boily> we should be at -4 all year long.
00:10:50 <zzo38> I don't like daylight saving time either.
00:10:58 <zzo38> And, PDF also isn't very good, I think.
00:11:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:12:26 <boily> but ZZT is good.
00:12:52 <quintopia> what about GAI
00:13:11 <boily> what's a GAI?
00:13:36 <quintopia> i mean AGI
00:14:01 <boily> good.
00:14:19 <quintopia> you like?
00:16:55 <boily> with STR, CON, INT, WIS and CHR.
00:17:00 <boily> are there any other AGIs?
00:23:46 -!- ais523 has quit.
00:31:50 <int-e> "adventure game interpreter"
00:36:54 <oerjan> . o O ( maybe we're actually living inside something that's an AGI in both senses )
00:37:18 <boily> huh. you can actually make plants invisible in DCSS...
00:37:20 <oerjan> . o O ( although the game sucks )
00:37:37 <oerjan> boily: you did not see that coming?
00:37:38 <quintopia> i was think artificial general intelligence, but agility works too, if you're into acrobatics
00:37:49 <shachaf> oerjan: should i use b-trees instead of binary trees for in-memory data structures twh
00:38:00 * boily ninjaly thwacks oerjan. 0.19 FP.
00:38:04 <int-e> . o O ( AGI is like SCUMM except you die all the time. )
00:38:29 <oerjan> shachaf: i know, vaguely, what a b-tree is. i'm not sure i've ever implemented one.
00:38:31 <quintopia> what is dcss
00:38:31 <shachaf> What is AGI?
00:38:44 <shachaf> oerjan: OKAY
00:39:10 <int-e> <int-e> "adventure game interpreter" <-- it's by Sierra
00:39:43 <shachaf> Ah.
00:40:01 <shachaf> it's also annual gross income
00:40:08 <shachaf> tax season is upon us
00:40:33 <shachaf> the us citizens among us, that is
00:40:39 <shachaf> or residents
00:40:50 <quintopia> yeah i really should do that. i usually don't wait this long
00:41:00 <shachaf> Last year I was so prompt with my taxes.
00:41:06 <shachaf> I was done in February, I think.
00:41:12 <shachaf> This year it's going to be a bit messier.
00:41:27 <oerjan> . o O ( all income is gross )
00:42:24 <shachaf> oerjan: do you need someone to take care of yours wth
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00:42:39 <boily> quintopia: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.
00:42:55 <oerjan> shachaf: you're _not_ getting my income hth
00:43:18 <shachaf> obviously i meant zzo38 hth
00:44:26 <quintopia> oerjan: your puns need some adjustment
00:44:42 <shachaf> Wait, I meant adjusted.
00:44:51 <shachaf> Ugh.
00:45:04 <shachaf> The thing that confuses me is that there's something called "MAGI", "modified AGI"
00:45:13 <shachaf> So I always thing the A couldn't possibly be "adjusted"
00:45:18 <shachaf> And it always is.
00:52:47 -!- h0rsep0wer has joined.
00:53:01 <boily> `relcome h0rsep0wer
00:53:03 <HackEgo> h0rsep0wer: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
01:03:51 <h0rsep0wer> \o/
01:04:55 <quintopia> o/
01:05:03 <boily> /o\
01:05:21 <quintopia> where's a myndzi when you need one
01:17:49 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
01:18:01 <boily> hppavilion[1]: can you myndze?
01:19:06 <hppavilion[1]> boily: ...what is Red October?
01:19:47 <shachaf> myndze your own business
01:21:13 <boily> hppavilion[1]: a Russian Event. where do hamsters go?
01:21:35 * boily thwacks shachaf. 0.63 FP
01:21:56 <shachaf> `? boily
01:21:57 <HackEgo> ​“Only sane adverb” boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, a thwack doctor, and a renowned Capitalist who helps keep the world boring.
01:22:23 <shachaf> boily is a renowned Capitalist?
01:22:28 <shachaf> Does he wear a top hat?
01:23:03 <oerjan> <quintopia> oerjan: your puns need some adjustment <-- which ones twh
01:25:02 <shachaf> oerjan: i think the pun was on "adjusted gross income" hth
01:25:20 <boily> shachaf: I can't remember why I'm a Capitalist, but I think it made sense at the time. or something.
01:26:10 <shachaf> `` dowg Boily | grep Capital
01:26:17 <HackEgo> No output.
01:26:22 <shachaf> oopse
01:26:25 <shachaf> `` dowg boily | grep Capital
01:26:32 <HackEgo> 10107:2017-01-07 <boil̈y> le/rn boily//\xe2\x80\x9cOnly sane adverb\xe2\x80\x9d boily is monetizing a brotherhood scheme with the Guardian of Lachine, apparently involving cookie dealing. He is also a NaniDispenser, a Trigotillectomic Groan Man Eating Chicken, a METARologist, seriously lacking in the f-word department, and a renowned Capitalist wh
01:26:41 <shachaf> `2 dowg boily | grep Capital
01:26:50 <HackEgo> 2/2: Capitalist who helps keep the world boring. \ 7173:2016-03-08 <int-̈e> learn_append boily He is also a renowned Capitalist.
01:27:15 <shachaf> Oh, it's probably about Capital letters.
01:27:26 <shachaf> I think ShubShub is the renowned Capitalist.
01:27:37 <boily> what's a ShubShub?
01:27:57 * boily is startled by the sudden pink of /r/writingprompts
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01:41:58 <boily> `wisdom
01:42:00 <HackEgo> lie//Lies are even easier than monoids. They form groups, known as Lie groups.
01:42:21 <shachaf> `4 w
01:42:25 <HackEgo> 1/2:gamemanj//gamemanj is also the mad scientist I. N. Here. He will overthink everything, except whether overthinking is wrong. \ blsqbot//blsqbot is the owner of the bot 'mroman'. \ m&ndash;rdalsj&ouml;kull//M&ndash;rdalsj&ouml;kull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. \ eliot//Eliot inverted cats, then Taneb stole his
01:42:28 <shachaf> `n
01:42:28 <HackEgo> 2/2: inversion.
01:44:39 <shachaf> Cale: Conor McBride is the best.
01:44:50 <shachaf> Cale: Er, never mind, I'm 4 years late.
01:48:14 <boily> Pie Fungot Domine. Dona eis Tanebventionem.
01:53:21 <hppavilion[1]> Well, I figured out why KeePass2 was misidentifying me here
01:53:35 <hppavilion[1]> (it was typing in the wrong password for no discernible reason)
01:54:04 <hppavilion[1]> I have NumShift, which makes my numrow map to 0123456789 instead of 1234567890, so it was typing in the numbers wrong
01:54:21 <hppavilion[1]> So I added an entire new interface JUST for this
01:54:27 <hppavilion[1]> @massages-lewd
01:54:28 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
01:54:31 <hppavilion[1]> @messages-lewd
01:54:31 <lambdabot> oerjan said 1d 9h 30m 19s ago: <hppavilion[1]> I forget, was "Tubular" ever a slang the way "Radical" and "Far-out" were? <-- the surfer characters on mezzacotta use it, i think, so maybe it was
01:54:31 <lambdabot> surfer slang?
01:55:59 <oerjan> . o O ( is that the correct vocative of Fungot? afair latin doesn't really have nouns ending in -t. )
01:56:26 <hppavilion[1]> (imitates Surer voice) Dodecahedrawl
01:56:36 <oerjan> otoh afair anything _not_ ending in -us tends not to have a special vocative.
01:56:52 <oerjan> hm maybe -er
01:57:07 <hppavilion[1]> *Dodecahedral
01:57:15 <hppavilion[1]> *Surfer
01:57:23 <hppavilion[1]> (imitates Surfer voice) Polytopic
01:57:29 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i thought the drawl was on purpose.
01:57:43 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: It was not, but it should of been
01:57:49 <oerjan> *have
01:57:50 * hppavilion[1] watches for cringes
01:57:54 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: HAH! CAUGHT YOU!
01:58:13 <oerjan> i didn't cringe merely correct hth
01:58:19 * hppavilion[1] suffocates oerjan in a jar and adds him to his collection
01:58:42 * oerjan makes a daring escape together with jar jar binks
01:58:56 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I think that makes you a war criminal?
01:59:14 <oerjan> it's the darths & droids version
01:59:31 <oerjan> so a war hero
02:00:33 <boily> I think only Taneb is vocativable. at least, according to tradition.
02:00:56 <boily> . o O ( Fungotte? Ō Fungot? )
02:02:37 <oerjan> `unidecode
02:02:38 <HackEgo> No output.
02:02:46 <oerjan> `unidecode 🍐
02:02:48 <HackEgo> U+1F350 PEAR \ UTF-8: f0 9f 8d 90 UTF-16BE: d83cdf50 Decimal: &#127824; \ 🍐 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
02:05:50 <oerjan> boily: well we don't seem to have any nicks in -us, so... istr one taktentus at one point.
02:06:36 <boily> istr?
02:07:02 <boily> pear, in honour of the Biting Pear of Salamanca.
02:07:14 <oerjan> `? istr
02:07:15 <HackEgo> istr? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:07:44 <oerjan> `learn istr istr is vaguely similar to iirc.
02:07:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'istr': istr istr is vaguely similar to iirc.
02:07:50 <oerjan> `? iirc
02:07:51 <HackEgo> iirc? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:07:56 <oerjan> darn
02:08:36 <oerjan> `? afair
02:08:37 <HackEgo> afair? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:08:53 <oerjan> `` ls wisdom/ii*
02:08:54 <HackEgo> wisdom/ii \ wisdom/iiuc
02:08:55 <shachaf> `? @messages
02:08:56 <HackEgo> ​@messages? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:08:59 <shachaf> `? @messages-loud
02:09:00 <HackEgo> ​@messages-loud @messages-fond / @messages-flood @messages-bond // @messages-lousy @messages-sound / @messages-lost @messages-found // @messages-proud @messages-bold / @messages-good @messages-gold
02:09:31 <boily> that's a good one ^^
02:09:49 <shachaf> jade plate / six eight
02:11:04 <Cale> shachaf: Conor McBride is pretty great, sure :)
02:11:23 <shachaf> Cale: Someone linked to https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/11flui/for_extremists_only_containers_calculus_comonads/
02:11:34 <shachaf> And I thought it was a recent comment but it's old.
02:12:15 <Cale> haha, I remember that
02:12:31 <shachaf> Anyway recognizing his style is usually easy.
02:13:37 <oerjan> `dowg ion
02:13:45 <HackEgo> No output.
02:14:18 <oerjan> `grwp lick
02:14:19 <HackEgo> nightstar:The Nightstars are an unscientific myth of a sky covered in faint flickering lights. Only hermits and superstitious farmers believe this.
02:15:10 <oerjan> `grwp diss
02:15:12 <HackEgo> int-e:int-e är inte svensk. Hen kommer att spränga solen. Hen står för sig själv. Hen gillar inte färger, men han gillar dissonans. \ oerjan:Your omnipheasant principal witty arrant knave oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it h
02:15:22 <oerjan> `2 grwp diss
02:15:24 <HackEgo> 2/3:so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he ever rememes. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it. \ soviet russia:Soviet Russia used to be a synonym for the Soviet Union. In reality, the Soviet Union dissolved. Meanwhile, Soviet Russia dissolved reality, and you are a figment of i
02:15:29 <oerjan> `n
02:15:30 <HackEgo> 3/3:ts imagination. \ webcarting:webcarting is not dissimilar to Mario Kart, but uses real, remote-controlled go-karts. Participants describe it as "the outlandish spectacle of real go-karting combined with the thrill and immersion of Mario Kart".
02:15:34 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you diss Roald Dahl?
02:16:04 <oerjan> yep, he was a jerk hth
02:16:53 <shachaf> Was he?
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02:33:22 <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true.
02:33:24 <HackEgo> Learned 'iirc': iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true.
02:33:34 <Jafet> `? ii
02:33:35 <HackEgo> Ii is a municipality in Finland, no matter what you do. Except for speaking Swedish.
02:34:09 <Sgeo> Cybertown is back from the dead at http://cybertown-webgl.com/ !
02:34:25 <Sgeo> (April Fools, it's still dead. I am in the process of resurrecting the 3d worlds though)
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03:09:35 <shachaf> `? i,i
03:09:36 <HackEgo> i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and I want to distract myself by saying".
03:09:45 <shachaf> `cwlprits i,i
03:09:53 <HackEgo> oerjän oerjän oerjän tsweẗt
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07:36:44 <\oren\> https://snag.gy/xMXrR9.jpg
07:36:55 <\oren\> hooray for glorius egypt
07:38:52 <shachaf> You should mark your screenshots from that game somehow.
07:39:18 <\oren\> also india is now all belong to glorius egypt
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08:22:30 <hppavilion[1]> @msg Jafet <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true. <-- I think that you want to put that one in tomfoolery hth.
08:22:30 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
08:23:09 <hppavilion[1]> @msg Jafet <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true. <-- I think that you want to put that one in tomfoolery hth.
08:23:09 <lambdabot> Not enough privileges
08:23:13 <hppavilion[1]> Uh
08:23:18 <hppavilion[1]> @tell Jafet <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true. <-- I think that you want to put that one in tomfoolery hth.
08:23:18 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:23:22 <hppavilion[1]> THERE we go.
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08:49:54 <shachaf> `5 w
08:50:00 <HackEgo> 1/1:prefrigerator//Prefrigerators are generalized frigerators with built-in preconditioners for the modern precompact home. They are now available to preorder. \ substructural typing//Not to be confused with structural subtyping. \ herbalist//An herbalist is a list of herbas. \ xyzzy//Nothing happens. \ pipe//This is not a pipe.
08:53:36 <shachaf> λ> filter (`S.member` wos) [y | x <- wo, Just y <- [stripSuffix "list" x]]
08:53:37 <shachaf> ["black","check","due","duel","idea","minima","pane","short","sty"]
08:53:54 <shachaf> oerjan: `? idealist etc. twh
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09:04:22 <rdococ> postfridgerator?
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10:57:27 <Jafet> @messages-loop
10:57:27 <lambdabot> hppavilion[1] said 2h 34m 8s ago: <Jafet> `learn iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true. <-- I think that you want to put that one in tomfoolery hth.
10:58:04 <Jafet> `grwp fool
10:58:06 <HackEgo> amigamml:Only fools such as zzo38 and so on try to use AmigaMML on a PC. Real Men try to use AmigaMML on a Amiga computer. \ https://devlabs.linuxassist.net/projects/amigamml/wiki/Frequently_and_unfrequently_asked_questions \ guillible:A guillible person is someone who can be fooled with a Scheme script. \ time cube:EARTH HAS 4 CORNER SIMULTANEOUS
10:59:21 <Jafet> `2 grwp fool
10:59:22 <HackEgo> 2/3: SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY TIME CUBE IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION. 4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH. Bible A Lie & Word Is Lies. Navel Connects 4 Corner 4s. God Is Born Of A Mother - She Left Belly B. Signature. Your dirty lying teachers use only the midnight to midnight 1 day (ignoring 3 other days) Time to not foul (already wrong) bible time.
11:26:45 <rdococ> Boredom ^ 2
11:27:03 <rdococ> `2 boredom
11:27:05 <HackEgo> 2/1:
11:27:45 <rdococ> `? iirc
11:27:47 <HackEgo> iirc means that a fact was once mentioned by someone “in IRC”, and is therefore true.
11:28:09 <rdococ> I am a billionaire.
11:28:11 <rdococ> iirc
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12:00:02 <wob_jonas> Have you looked at tom7's latest esoteric programming masterpiece? http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tom7/abc/
12:00:14 <wob_jonas> (It's not really an esolang, but definitely esoteric programming.)
12:00:57 <shachaf> I have.
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12:18:14 <Jafet> relatedly: http://web.cs.jhu.edu/~sam/ccs243-mason.pdf
12:19:51 <wob_jonas> Jafet: yes, I think I've seen that. what distinguishes tom7's work is the "expert mode" rule
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13:06:09 <int-e> it's amazing, but I wish there was a way to not rely on fs = 0 though... (AFAIK DOS doesn't touch fs at all; its value will be determined by the last program to run.)
13:07:49 <int-e> I don
13:07:58 <int-e> 't see a way around it though
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13:13:00 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/IIET ... only tried it in dosbox though, maybe I should configure dosemu...
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13:17:59 <wob_jonas> int-e: you should probably try it with both various versions of MS-DOS and Freedos. It's quite possible that some of them don't modify FS at all.
13:24:16 <int-e> Basically the thing I'm not sure about is emm386.sys (and obviously, the various "DOS extenders"). Otherwise I would be very much surprised if DOS touched fs or gs.
13:25:11 <wob_jonas> int-e: well, DOS could use FS for its original purpose, as an extra segment register because four segment registers are too few, but obviously it can only do so in paths that don't have to work on older systems
13:25:20 <wob_jonas> when was FS even introduced? in 286 or 386?
13:25:25 <int-e> 386
13:25:33 <wob_jonas> yes, that makes it less likely
13:25:37 <int-e> that's why I would be surprised
13:25:42 <wob_jonas> so MS-DOS probably doesn't use it much, but Freedos could
13:56:22 <int-e> yeah, freenode does something to those registers... getting fs=A204 and gs=54C3 (no clue what these values are) and no persistence between program executions.
13:57:01 <wob_jonas> freenode?
13:57:14 <int-e> Freedos, hmm.
13:57:32 <int-e> Plain MS DOS 6.22 is fine. I don't think I can be bothered to play with himem or emm386 or other DOS versions.
13:57:41 <wob_jonas> does any of them point to the start of any of your segments?
13:58:05 <wob_jonas> wait... you start DOS 6.22 WITHOUT himem? I almost never do that. himem is in my minimal configuration
13:58:27 <wob_jonas> note also that there are two versions of himem and of emm386 out there: one distributed with DOS 6.22, and one distributed with Windows 3
13:58:33 <wob_jonas> at least two versions, possibly more
14:00:01 <wob_jonas> himem is useful because if you load it, you get more conventional memory remaining, I think because there are parts of dos that it isn't willing to leave for swap from the system disk, but is willing to put into himem or something
14:00:07 <wob_jonas> frankly I don't understand how it works
14:18:32 <int-e> well, himem.sys is loaded.
15:15:23 <rdococ> hm
15:15:29 <rdococ> what has never been first-classed before...
15:15:56 <rdococ> well, primitive types like int and boolean aren't first-classed often.
15:19:48 <rdococ> the thing is, many languages have associative arrays, and classes
15:20:03 <rdococ> so you can make first class everything
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15:36:57 <rdococ> first class gotos
15:37:09 <rdococ> first class pointers
15:37:20 <rdococ> actually, wait, that's C's &
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15:41:34 <boily> rdochelloc. you may want to check setjmp and longjmp hth
15:41:55 <boily> helløøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøøø
15:41:56 <oerjan> helloily.
15:42:00 <boily> rjan.
15:43:24 * oerjan feels decapitated
15:44:30 * rdococ mapoles boily in a classic plot twisr
15:44:36 <rdococ> s/twisr/twist
15:45:02 <rdococ> hoily, hellørjan
15:45:53 <boily> oerjan: it was a non-local dynamic porthello.
15:46:25 * oerjan gets annoyed that vim's hlsearch isn't local to a window
15:46:57 <wob_jonas> `? ostrich
15:46:58 <HackEgo> Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with Turkey. After a famine it sort of split into Ostrich/Hungry. Alas its policy of keeping its head in the sand did not get it through the Great War, and with its final attempts to take flight failing, it ended up cut into several pieces.
15:47:14 <wob_jonas> `grwp ostrich
15:47:15 <HackEgo> feather:A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal.
15:47:21 <wob_jonas> `grwp strich
15:47:23 <HackEgo> feather:A feather is something that can be found on most birds. It is responsible for their ability to not spontaneously float, seeing as how feathers are made of osmium. Penguins and ostriches have more feathers than most other birds, many of which are internal. \ ostrich:Ostrich used to be a large middle European empire in frequent conflict with
15:47:36 <oerjan> `` grwp -l strich
15:47:37 <HackEgo> feather \ ostrich \ turkey
15:47:43 <boily> `? turkey
15:47:44 <HackEgo> Turkey was the center of an empire that gobbled up much of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, something which brought them into conflict with Ostrich. In the 19th century the overstuffed empire started declining, and after the Great War it was cut up like so much Shish Kebab.
15:48:09 <boily> yummy shish taouk...
15:48:19 <wob_jonas> I wonder if one of those should mention that ostriches eat diamonds but don't destroy them
15:48:24 <wob_jonas> sort of like yoshis
15:48:51 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure they shouldn't.
15:49:29 <wob_jonas> they also eat important documents and other objects
15:49:33 <wob_jonas> legal documents
15:49:39 <oerjan> in fact i don't recognize the reference, i assume it's some game, which means it's _definitely_ out of place.
15:50:07 <wob_jonas> you don't read the classics, oerjan
15:50:18 <oerjan> probably not.
15:50:34 <oerjan> which classic?
15:52:19 <oerjan> my mind somehow pops up tintin...
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15:53:00 <oerjan> (which i haven't read much)
15:53:51 <wob_jonas> Jules Verne novels
15:54:47 <wob_jonas> let's MODE #esoteric +b $~j:#esoteric
15:54:49 <oerjan> hm, i've read many of those. but that was >20 years ago.
15:54:59 <oerjan> what does that mean
15:55:42 <wob_jonas> oerjan: it's an extended ban syntax. it means to ban users who aren't banned on #esoteric
15:57:13 <oerjan> OKAY
15:57:46 * oerjan finds the jules verne novel on wikipedia. not heard of before.
15:58:30 <oerjan> i think that's too obscure even for wisdom.
15:59:39 <boily> `wisdom
15:59:40 <HackEgo> augur//augur took no cakes, but he's a linguist.
15:59:50 <boily> yup, definitely too obscure.
16:00:12 <oerjan> `? gregor
16:00:12 <HackEgo> Gregor took forty cakes. He took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
16:00:18 <oerjan> obvious reference hth
16:00:21 <rdococ> How dare he.
16:00:48 <oerjan> rdococ: he can do it because he runs HackEgo. well, in theory.
16:01:27 <oerjan> `cwlprits Gregor
16:01:34 <HackEgo> No output.
16:01:37 <oerjan> `cwlprits Gregor
16:01:43 <HackEgo> No output.
16:01:49 <oerjan> oh
16:01:55 <oerjan> `cwlprits gregor
16:02:02 <HackEgo> nitïa
16:02:10 <oerjan> ancient wisdom
16:02:43 <boily> `? rdococ
16:02:44 <HackEgo> rdococ is apparently from Budapest, but he is actually on Mars. Thanks to boily he is approaching permanent boredom.
16:07:58 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: `? idealist etc. twh <-- meh
16:08:28 <oerjan> i don't quite see how to turn that template into good wisdoms.
16:11:13 <rdococ> MODE #esoteric +b bool canBan(user) { return !esoteric.banned[user]; }
16:12:22 <wob_jonas> "i think that's too obscure even for wisdom" -- there's such a thing?
16:13:30 <boily> `? pineapple
16:13:31 <HackEgo> Pineapple is a hybrid species descended from a cultivar of spinach and wild ivy, making it a class 6 vegetable.
16:15:43 <int-e> http://sprunge.us/gLGL <-- the 'bound' instruction isn't as useless as tom7 made it sound, it allows (some) clean system calls.
16:17:46 <int-e> where "clean" means that interrupts are reenabled.
16:18:52 <wob_jonas> int-e: are you sure? because there are many other ways to cause faults, like using address-size override to index past the 64k segment boundary, and some of them you could do even in such a way that when the instruction is restarted it no longer faults (because many DOS syscall like keyboard non-blocking read put the return value in AL),
16:19:00 <wob_jonas> but I think you would end up with interrupts disabled
16:19:02 <wob_jonas> I'm not sure
16:19:10 <wob_jonas> I should read up on the rules of interrupts later
16:19:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: I don't see why it would be different than an illegal opcode fault though, why would one end up with interrupts disabled and the other not
16:20:02 <wob_jonas> that's why I discarded that idea
16:20:33 <wob_jonas> int-e: I sent a mail with some questions to tom7 by the way, hopefully he'll clarify on some of the finer points and/or fix errors
16:20:41 <wob_jonas> maybe he'll even improve his program
16:21:05 <int-e> wob_jonas: the point is that the bounds condition can be fixed by the system call. (the AH=0x40h, for example, changes AX).
16:21:34 <int-e> this is not the case for the #UD caused by ARPL.
16:22:02 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes, and the segmentation fault can be fixed too, and I think you can even fix the undefined operation with some syscalls like read that write to arbitrary memory address, though those syscalls might be less useful
16:22:18 <wob_jonas> hmm wait
16:22:25 <wob_jonas> the segmentation fault won't work
16:22:32 <wob_jonas> damn
16:22:41 <int-e> but basically I wanted to redeem the bound instruction :P
16:22:55 <wob_jonas> int-e: you might be right that the bound is the easiest to fix... let me look up what bound does again
16:23:31 <wob_jonas> (I'll also have to read up what those decimal instructions do)
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16:28:56 <oerjan> `learn Postfridgerators are what we'll use once global warming really takes hold.
16:28:58 <HackEgo> Learned 'postfridgerator': Postfridgerators are what we'll use once global warming really takes hold.
16:30:13 <rdococ> what about cofridges?
16:30:41 <rdococ> `? fternoon
16:30:42 <HackEgo> Fternoon is the time of day when the Danes usually eat their fternooners.
16:31:45 <rdococ> `learn Cofridges are ovens that are disrespectful towards entropy.
16:31:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'cofridge': Cofridges are ovens that are disrespectful towards entropy.
16:34:18 <oerjan> `learn_append cofridge They are useful for preparing ffee.
16:34:20 <HackEgo> Learned 'cofridge': Cofridges are ovens that are disrespectful towards entropy. They are useful for preparing ffee.
16:36:22 <oerjan> hm i'm getting ovens and stoves mixed up
16:37:00 <rdococ> you could substitute ovens for stoves
16:38:12 <rdococ> also, they can be used to cook cofood
16:38:19 <rdococ> well
16:38:26 <oerjan> *ok
16:38:32 <rdococ> ye
16:38:55 <rdococ> "They are useful for copreparing ffee, and for oking cofood."
16:39:05 <oerjan> `slwd cofridge//s,ovens,& or stoves,;s,.$, and oking cofood.,
16:39:07 <HackEgo> cofridge//Cofridges are ovens or stoves that are disrespectful towards entropy. They are useful for preparing ffee and oking cofood.
16:40:17 <oerjan> `slwd cofridge//s,pre,post,
16:40:19 <HackEgo> cofridge//Cofridges are ovens or stoves that are disrespectful towards entropy. They are useful for postparing ffee and oking cofood.
16:40:43 <rdococ> Would cofridges respect coentropy, or would they corespect it?
16:40:53 <rdococ> Depends on the comodel, I cosuppose.
16:41:08 <rdococ> s/Depends/Codepends/
16:41:12 <oerjan> codependency is nasty, i hear
16:41:52 <rdococ> oh, that's just because it's cogood
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16:59:42 <rdococ> `? onion
16:59:43 <HackEgo> onion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:00:17 <rdococ> `learn Onions are the bullies of the dinner plate. They can make you cry.
17:00:19 <HackEgo> Learned 'onion': Onions are the bullies of the dinner plate. They can make you cry.
17:00:40 <rdococ> `? conion
17:00:41 <HackEgo> conion? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:00:49 <rdococ> `? nothing
17:00:50 <HackEgo> Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry.
17:00:52 <rdococ> `? coco
17:00:53 <HackEgo> coco? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:01:31 <rdococ> `? right
17:01:32 <HackEgo> Right is not two wrongs but three lefts.
17:01:37 <rdococ> `? left
17:01:38 <HackEgo> left? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:01:41 <rdococ> `? wrong
17:01:43 <HackEgo> wrong? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:06:50 <rdococ> `? cod
17:06:51 <HackEgo> cod? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:07:03 <rdococ> `le//rn cod//Cod is a fish's favourite fish person shooter.
17:07:05 <HackEgo> Learned 'cod': Cod is a fish's favourite fish person shooter.
17:07:41 <rdococ> `? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:07:42 <HackEgo> ​¯\(°​_o)/¯ is a misspelling of ¯\(°_o)/¯
17:18:50 <rdococ> `? glitch
17:18:51 <HackEgo> glitch? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:19:00 <rdococ> `le//rn glitch//glitch? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:19:02 <HackEgo> Learned 'glitch': glitch? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:19:55 <rdococ> `? /ban
17:19:56 <HackEgo> ​/ban? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:27:56 <quintopia> oerjan: the tax one mainly. why else would i have said "adjustment"?
17:39:24 <int-e> b_jonas: okay, I can do, in principle, read the CS register, and perform arbitrary long jumps :-)
17:39:33 <int-e> s/ do//
17:40:25 <int-e> ("in principle" meaning I haven't actually written printable code for that)
17:42:36 <int-e> b_jonas: http://sprunge.us/UBIK has details if you're interested
17:43:19 * quintopia sprays UBIK on int-e
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17:55:20 <rdococ> We need a new paradigm.
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17:58:19 <int-e> nope
17:59:32 <rdococ> yepe
18:03:27 <oerjan> the paradigm that can be wished for is not the true paradigm.
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18:03:47 <rdococ> okay
18:03:51 <rdococ> fine
18:04:01 <rdococ> I'll have a coparadigm instead
18:04:07 <oerjan> NOOOOOOO
18:04:23 <rdococ> ?
18:04:24 <rdococ> cono?
18:05:05 <oerjan> you'll doom as all
18:05:15 <oerjan> *us
18:06:39 <rdococ> why?
18:11:27 * oerjan doesn't feel like rdococ is getting into the spirit of doom
18:11:42 <rdococ> ahh
18:12:01 <oerjan> better, but needs more a's
18:13:01 <int-e> . o O ( how does cooperation look like among category theorists? )
18:14:28 <rdococ> heh
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18:17:41 <wob_jonas> int-e: I'm not too surprised about reading the CS register. But arbitrary long jumps? That sounds interesting
18:17:58 <wob_jonas> Tell that to tom7 too, he'll be more interested than I am
18:18:11 <wob_jonas> Ah, you probably already did
18:18:43 <oerjan> it sounds like int-e has solved the two most awkward issues, at least partially
18:18:57 <wob_jonas> oerjan: which two?
18:19:37 <oerjan> lack of backward jumps and no normal output?
18:19:55 <oerjan> oh, and maybe the memory size too, with long jumps?
18:20:13 <oerjan> er, available code size
18:20:31 <wob_jonas> well, this will be interesting
18:21:52 <wob_jonas> oh! overwriting the return address of the syscall on the stack! that sounds so fragile, it will usually work, but not if the BIOS copies those values first
18:22:16 <int-e> the last instruction will be an iret
18:22:24 <int-e> it has no choice :P
18:22:44 <wob_jonas> int-e: but it can be an iret from a different stack, or it can change the stack
18:22:46 <wob_jonas> it's allowed to
18:22:51 <int-e> real mode
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18:23:25 <wob_jonas> but sure, it's not likely, unless it's a DOS that runs in protected mode and runs your code in v86 mode and the interrupt actually goes to protected mode and doesn't use your stack at all, which I imagine dosbox might do
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18:23:59 <int-e> well it doesn't.
18:24:07 <wob_jonas> anyway, brilliant trick
18:24:30 <wob_jonas> I don't care if DOS can ruin it in theory, it will work in practice
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18:25:14 <wob_jonas> but int-e, does this mean that tom7's original assertion about how the interrupt flag will remain set after an interrupt return is wrong? or am I just misinterpreting what he says?
18:26:18 <int-e> he argues that one cannot safely return (since that will just trigger the #UD again), and there's no other way of restoring the interrupt enabled flag.
18:27:20 <wob_jonas> int-e: ah!
18:27:38 <wob_jonas> I thought he meant that the interrupt flag will remain set even if it does return
18:27:56 <wob_jonas> but yes, I was stupid to think that
18:28:00 <wob_jonas> thanks
18:28:56 <wob_jonas> I guess then there might be ways other than the bound to do this, the bound is just one of the most convenient
18:29:01 <wob_jonas> but possibly not the most general
18:29:50 <wob_jonas> can you directly ask the programmable interrupt controller to send you a single interrupt request?
18:29:53 <int-e> sure, I saw an opportunity and ran with it :)
18:30:03 <int-e> Uh, probably.
18:30:16 <wob_jonas> or maybe the keyboard controller
18:32:58 <wob_jonas> I'm asking because then you could use syscalls other than the ones that change AX or something
18:33:11 <wob_jonas> although at some point using syscalls will become cheating
18:33:25 <wob_jonas> because eventually you'll just write to a file and exec some other program
18:34:40 <wob_jonas> oh look! tom7 just replied to me
18:34:46 <wob_jonas> gotta look at this
18:36:32 <wob_jonas> whoa WOW
18:37:12 <int-e> wow?
18:37:38 <wob_jonas> I asked him why his paper lists the table of 32-bit addressing modes. He says that in 16-bit mode, if you use the address size override prefix, then the ModRM byte is interpreted as in 32-byte code. I totally didn't know that!
18:38:03 <wob_jonas> That means you _can_ use segmentation fault this way too, because you can index with EAX even in 16-bit mode, and have the system call modify AL
18:38:19 <wob_jonas> (instead of bound that is, but bound is easier)
18:38:30 <wob_jonas> I'll have to read the intel & amd manuals about this
18:38:35 <wob_jonas> this, like, changes everything
18:39:29 <int-e> "If I continue working on this (which I admit is unlikely :))"
18:39:41 <wob_jonas> yeah, obviously
18:39:46 <wob_jonas> but still, it's good to know what you can do
18:41:23 <int-e> he suggests using "bye" for the bound: bound di,[bx+di+0x65]
18:41:34 <int-e> at least the final one :P
18:41:58 <wob_jonas> int-e: should I paste my mail and his reply?
18:42:04 <wob_jonas> (even the parts where I'm stupid)
18:42:43 <int-e> your call
18:43:06 <wob_jonas> heck, I will
18:43:35 <wob_jonas> wtf, why does dpaste.com not work?
18:43:38 <wob_jonas> I need some other paste site
18:43:42 <wob_jonas> `? paste
18:43:44 <HackEgo> ​"Paste" is a short story by Henry James. Its contents have been cut into pieces and distributed over numerous tin boxes on the World Wide Web, little pearls of wisdom buried among ordinary pastes.
18:43:52 <wob_jonas> do we have an #esoteric,-approved paste wobsite/
18:44:45 <Taneb> I tend to use arin.ga, which I think izabera runs
18:45:12 * int-e tends to use sprunge.us, but of course that one is lossy
18:45:49 <wob_jonas> Taneb: ok
18:46:18 <wob_jonas> https://arin.ga/V1MiYH
18:46:23 <wob_jonas> great, crazy syntax coloring
18:46:35 <wob_jonas> is that trying to syntax color C?
18:47:00 <wob_jonas> int-e: ^
18:48:27 <int-e> ...I'll read the raw version.
18:49:19 <rdococ> tasty candy colors
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19:24:04 <int-e> rdococ: actually I'm less annoyed by the candy colors and more by the black background
19:24:25 <int-e> (with low contrast stripes which somehow are really hard on my eyes)
19:25:25 <rdococ> aw, because I just ate all the candy
19:42:00 <shachaf> oerjan: Neither did I.
19:43:35 <rdococ> ørjan
19:51:59 <shachaf> wob_jonas: PG
19:52:26 <shachaf> I made a small comment on the implementation of |, which apparently some other people made as well.
19:53:07 <shachaf> `doag
19:53:08 <HackEgo> 10576:2017-04-02 <rdocöc> le//rn glitch//glitch? \xc2\xaf\\(\xc2\xb0\xe2\x80\x8b_o)/\xc2\xaf \ 10575:2017-04-02 <rdocöc> le//rn cod//Cod is a fish\'s favourite fish person shooter. \ 10574:2017-04-02 <rdocöc> learn Onions are the bullies of the dinner plate. They can make you cry. \ 10573:2017-04-02 <oerjän> slwd cofridge//s,pre,post, \ 105
19:54:51 <rdococ> hi
19:55:35 <shachaf> That's a lot of spam in the history.
19:56:05 * Zarutian starts up the Monte Python sketch 'Spam spam spam...' for shachaf.
19:56:53 <shachaf> No thanks.
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20:00:10 <wob_jonas> shachaf: what?
20:00:23 <int-e> heh, "I once transmuted flesh into gold though not entirely on purpose"
20:00:27 <wob_jonas> oh, you mean the implemntation of bitwise or?
20:00:29 <wob_jonas> ok
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20:10:32 <shachaf> wob_jonas: Yes, he implemented a|b as (a&B)+(a&b) rather than (a&B)^(a&b)
20:10:45 <shachaf> Despite not having an easy implementation of +
20:13:23 <wob_jonas> shachaf: I think his description of how he does the bitwise or was very vague, with no final assembly code shown, but in the end it doesn't matter too much, it's such a minor thing compared to other optim'ions, so I didn't think through what the best impl would be, rather tried to think about other stuff.
20:16:15 <wob_jonas> do you mean a^b^a&b
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20:24:24 <shachaf> I mean a lowercase b, if that's what you mean.
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22:35:02 <hppavilion[1]> NaNoWriMo is 10⁻⁹ of a WriMo, yes?
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22:43:30 <shachaf> Sounds like a good thing to post to your Twitter account.
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23:02:05 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It does
23:02:18 <hppavilion[1]> On a more interesting note, I've found a way to make my gef program more efficient
23:02:33 <hppavilion[1]> Well, sort of. Depends on your definition, tbh
23:02:47 <hppavilion[1]> The program itself runs a lot faster, but doesn't actually do anything
23:03:57 <hppavilion[1]> The thing that makes it better is a separate, long-lived process that keeps running for as long as you like, which means you don't need to constantly wait for the moviepy library to be re-imported and files can be cached for convenience
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23:28:31 <zzo38> Make the Magic: the Gathering card it exiles only spells and abilities that cannot be countered, but if it can countered then it does not affect it.
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23:42:53 <oerjan> <shachaf> oerjan: Neither did I. <-- did what?
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23:43:26 * oerjan swats shapr for ruining his nickname completion -----###
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23:45:25 <shachaf> oerjan: Figure out good wisdoms to make from those words.
23:45:49 <shachaf> That's why I gave the job to the expert.
23:46:01 <shachaf> I forgot he was a lazy expert.
23:48:09 <oerjan> i'm also absent minded, so don't expect me to remember context from hours ago that is nowhere nearby in the logs twh
23:49:27 * int-e plants a memory in oerjan's brain
23:49:45 <oerjan> i have a memory it just has weird selection
23:54:56 <int-e> I was thinking of the term in the way of "Inception", though I have no concrete idea in mind yet...
23:57:20 <oerjan> that's good, as i remember abstract ideas better
2017-04-03
00:06:17 <int-e> you're welcome?
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00:18:52 <Jafet> in this channel, everyone is welcome
00:19:27 <shachaf> the only limit is yourself
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00:27:36 <shachaf> zombo.com is too good
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02:30:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Binary lambda calculus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51637&oldid=43479 * Oerjan * (+43) /* External resources */ Wikigone
02:32:38 <oerjan> good grief those typos
02:34:56 <shachaf> I kind of wish HackEgo linked to the page itself rather than the edit.
02:35:18 <shachaf> Most of the time that's what I want to click on.
02:35:30 <fizzie> Why does everyone keep saying that.
02:35:33 <shachaf> I suppose the situation is different for people who aren't morally opposed to editing wiki pages.
02:35:47 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
02:36:22 <oerjan> fizzie: it would have been nice if the link at least had a prefix that went to the page itself
02:36:36 <oerjan> shachaf: mind you, the edit contains the page hth
02:37:01 <shachaf> > length "https://esolangs.org/wiki/" - length "[[]]"
02:37:03 <lambdabot> 22
02:37:27 <shachaf> It would only cost 22 characters (and fewer bytes), unless you had characters that need to be escaped.
02:37:44 <fizzie> The link looks uglier than the title.
02:38:01 <oerjan> you could drop the [wiki] too
02:38:18 <fizzie> Yeah, that's a little superfluous.
02:38:19 <shachaf> oerjan: But then how would people /ignore it?
02:38:36 <shachaf> I suppose there could be another indicator.
02:39:02 <oerjan> although what i was really meaning was the /w/index.php part... why not have the actual page name there. although that might not help you people who click directly on irc links
02:39:44 <shachaf> It could be useful to logreaders.
02:39:53 <shachaf> fizzie: truth is uglier than fiction hth
02:39:55 <shachaf> `5 w
02:40:00 <HackEgo> 1/3:word salad detector//Our only word salad detectors before fungot proposed bright full speed under the mediterranean guadalope a light sauce impertinent used the best brains of codeine fragments emerge from the red arrow shark-repellant housewife a smattering and yes I said yes I will Yes. \ os//Os is the accusative plural of us. Also
02:40:03 <shachaf> `n
02:40:04 <HackEgo> 2/3:a municipality in Norway. \ thausiblee//A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action. \ ramen//拉麵是一種類型的麵條縫製從原始樹木。 \ @messages-loud//@messages-loud @messages-fond / @messages-flood @messages-bond // @messages-lousy @messages-sound / @messages-lost @messages-found // @messages-proud @messages-b
02:40:08 <shachaf> `n
02:40:09 <HackEgo> 3/3:old / @messages-good @messages-gold
02:40:47 <FireFly> ``cat bin/5
02:40:48 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `cat: not found
02:40:52 <FireFly> er
02:40:54 <FireFly> `cat bin/5
02:40:55 <HackEgo> cmd="${1-quote}"; \`^ 5 "$cmd"
02:41:16 <FireFly> I see
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02:41:40 <FireFly> I can guess, but…
02:41:43 <FireFly> `cat bin/`^
02:41:44 <oerjan> `cat bin/`^
02:41:44 <HackEgo> ​[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport
02:41:44 <HackEgo> ​[[ $# == 2 ]] || { echo "Usage: $0 n cmd" >&2; exit 2; }; for ((i=0; i < $1; i++)); do \` "$2"; done | sport
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02:42:12 <shachaf> `slwd os//s/Also.*/Alsø a village in Denmark./
02:42:14 <HackEgo> os//Os is the accusative plural of us. Alsø a village in Denmark.
02:43:21 <FireFly> `? @messages-loud
02:43:22 <HackEgo> ​@messages-loud @messages-fond / @messages-flood @messages-bond // @messages-lousy @messages-sound / @messages-lost @messages-found // @messages-proud @messages-bold / @messages-good @messages-gold
02:43:25 <FireFly> I see
02:43:59 <shachaf> jade plate / six eight
02:44:06 <shachaf> fire that burns hot / night that is not
02:44:12 <shachaf> fire that burns cold / first silver then gold
02:44:19 <oerjan> `slwd os//s,$ Ånd a Norwegian spirit.,
02:44:20 <HackEgo> ​/bin/sed: -e expression #1, char 29: unterminated `s' command
02:44:32 <oerjan> `slwd os//s,$,Ånd a Norwegian spirit.,
02:44:34 <HackEgo> os//Os is the accusative plural of us. Alsø a village in Denmark.Ånd a Norwegian spirit.
02:44:37 <oerjan> argh
02:44:50 <shachaf> oerjan: maybe s/is // hth
02:44:55 <oerjan> `slwd os//s,Å, Å,
02:44:56 <HackEgo> os//Os is the accusative plural of us. Alsø a village in Denmark. Ånd a Norwegian spirit.
02:45:34 <shachaf> Hmm, or maybe just adding commas.
02:45:48 <shachaf> After the first words of the second and third sentences.
02:46:17 <oerjan> doesn't work for the third i think
02:46:36 <oerjan> maybe barely
02:46:57 <shachaf> At least it's not outright iggrammatical.
02:47:14 <FireFly> both Å and Ö occur as placenames in Sweden
02:47:28 <FireFly> (they are both also words for geographical features)
02:49:02 <oerjan> `learn Ä is a Swedish geographical feature.
02:49:04 <HackEgo> Learned 'Ä': Ä is a Swedish geographical feature.
02:49:19 <shachaf> `? england
02:49:20 <HackEgo> England is [EXPUNGED].
02:49:31 <shachaf> `dowg england
02:49:39 <HackEgo> 773:2012-10-06 <oerjän> learn England is [EXPUNGED]. \ 769:2012-10-06 <ellioẗt> learn England \ 768:2012-10-06 <oerjän> learn England is a country in southern Britain, with capital Hexham. The people there are all punctuation fascists. ais523 looks after the Turing machines.
02:49:59 <shachaf> hm
02:50:10 <shachaf> `learn England is a conspiracy of cartographers.
02:50:12 <HackEgo> Relearned 'england': England is a conspiracy of cartographers.
02:51:11 <shachaf> oerjan is apparently working for The Man
02:51:17 <shachaf> or perhaps oerjan is The Man
02:58:31 * oerjan keeps shachaf down
02:59:55 <shachaf> oerjan: Oh, you meant it doesn't work if you interpret the word "Ånd" as the English word "And".
03:00:01 <shachaf> I just figured that out.
03:00:18 <shachaf> But why would you do that?
03:00:51 <shachaf> i,i Moreover, a subsidiary of LexisNexis.
03:01:33 <oerjan> i thought that was the whole point of Alsø
03:02:04 <shachaf> It was part of the point.
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04:12:22 <rdococ> hellone
04:12:47 <oerjan> helloc
04:15:43 <rdococ> hellørjan
04:16:01 <rdococ> btw how is that name pronounced?
04:25:23 <oerjan> rdococ: /²øɾjɑn/ hth
04:25:53 <rdococ> er
04:25:54 <rdococ> wut
04:26:00 <rdococ> ²?
04:26:03 <oerjan> IPA hth
04:26:10 <oerjan> pitch accent hth
04:26:55 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_phonology#Accent hth
04:28:26 <oerjan> (my dialect is northern hth)
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06:08:53 <shachaf> oerjan: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/a-beer-gut hth
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06:38:29 <erkin> shachaf: I want to merge two puns about IPA but I couldn't find a proper execution.
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11:37:08 <FireFly> oh, I didn't know norwegin had two separate pitches too
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11:50:21 <boily> `wisdom
11:50:22 <HackEgo> pidgin//The pidgin hole principle states that if n+1 messages are sent over n protocols, then at least two messages are sent over the same protocol.
11:54:38 <int-e> the signals are very strong tonight
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13:19:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51638&oldid=51406 * Timwi * (+0) /* Lazy-evaluated sequences */
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14:29:32 <b_jonas> what signals?
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14:50:44 <Taneb> Is there a forgetful functor from the category of metric spaces to the category of topological spaces?
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16:48:54 <rdococ> . o O ( bananas )
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16:53:48 <rdococ> /heı/
16:53:51 <longerstaff13> hi
16:53:58 <rdococ> /haı/
16:55:30 <rdococ> /la:ŋgəstæf/
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16:57:21 <b_jonas> ...
16:57:47 <rdococ> yeah I probably did that wrong
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17:00:59 <b_jonas> `starwars
17:01:03 <HackEgo> Nute Gunray
17:13:18 <int-e> `? starwars
17:13:19 <HackEgo> starwars? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:13:23 <int-e> is it a name generator?
17:14:31 <b_jonas> int-e: no, it's just a list of less than 100 character names
17:14:38 <b_jonas> like 70 or something
17:14:46 <b_jonas> Nute is a real character in Star Wars
17:15:01 <\oren\> Why are they still trying to make Perl 6 happen?
17:15:13 <b_jonas> only the most important characters are included, not the ten thousand characters named in Star Wars universe
17:15:14 <\oren\> It's never going to happen
17:15:26 <b_jonas> \oren\: it's useful as a comparison to show how to make a bad language
17:15:39 <b_jonas> as in, how to make a language that's already designed as bad,
17:15:44 <b_jonas> not just got bad as time passed by it
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18:06:21 <int-e> We also need a new prime example of vaporware now that Duke Nukem Forever is released.
18:07:03 -!- AnotherTest has joined.
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18:07:22 <int-e> Or should I say Hurd, hmm.
18:08:25 <shapr> I hurd ya the first time
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18:48:39 <Zarutian> does anyone else here remember, 'ride a spider' functionality of AltaVista? does any other search engine have that feature? (Basically you get a stream of urls)
18:49:10 <Zarutian> int-e: whatchamean that Duke Nukem Forever has been released?
18:49:24 <pikhq> It was. It was not Forever.
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18:50:06 <Zarutian> then it has not been released then.
18:50:19 <Zarutian> September 1993 has not ended then.
18:53:20 <Phantom_Hoover> <int-e> We also need a new prime example of vaporware now that Duke Nukem Forever is released.
18:53:26 <Phantom_Hoover> you've not heard of star citizen then i take it
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18:55:10 <int-e> . o O ( 2011, wow, I didn't think it's been that long. )
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18:56:29 <Phantom_Hoover> SC was supposed to be delivered in 2014; currently the smart money is on it being called finished by 2020 at the earliest
18:57:03 <int-e> annpunced 2012, initial release date 2015... nah it's just not the same
18:57:24 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean it's the DNF of the kickstarter/early access era
18:57:38 <Phantom_Hoover> the 'initial release' is like a fiftieth of the promised game
18:57:48 <int-e> I guess it makes the funding croud quite angry though
18:57:59 <Phantom_Hoover> well that's the thing, at this stage they're still not angry
18:58:05 <int-e> crowd.
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18:58:19 <Phantom_Hoover> because they ~mostly think that all the promised content will be released 'when it's done'
18:58:43 <int-e> . o O ( Oh, like Game of Thrones then :-P )
18:59:22 <int-e> And by "Game of Thrones" I mean "A Song of Ice and Fire".
19:00:14 <Phantom_Hoover> lol
19:00:32 <Phantom_Hoover> well it's unlike asoiaf in that asoiaf was once good
19:00:48 <Phantom_Hoover> whereas SC has gone through about 3 iterations of its core gameplay and they've all been terrible
19:04:03 <hppavilion[0]> Hm. You know what'd be interesting?
19:04:14 <hppavilion[0]> A story that both uses and subverts Aliens Speaking English
19:04:54 <zzo38> Describe how a story might both use and subvert, perhaps?
19:05:01 <hppavilion[0]> The Aliens, through some miracle of the universe, aren't on the other side of an unsurmountable chasm of linguistic distinction
19:06:44 <hppavilion[0]> You can understand them and they can understand you PERFECTLY well, assuming you speak Basque
19:06:46 <rdococ> hellovilion[0]
19:06:48 <hppavilion[0]> (or maybe Cornish or something)
19:06:51 -!- hppavilion[0] has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
19:06:52 <rdococ> hezzo38
19:06:58 <rdococ> hint-e
19:07:11 <rdococ> phellom_hoover
19:07:14 <hppavilion[1]> g Nker inf pavn15ab1c0786ce189247
19:07:19 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, weird
19:07:34 <hppavilion[1]> OK, there we go
19:07:44 <zzo38> Ah, OK
19:07:55 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if that compromises my password enough that I should change it
19:07:56 <Phantom_Hoover> hppavilion[1], you read tvtropes too much
19:07:58 <hppavilion[1]> I probably should
19:08:05 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: You don't read tvtropes enough
19:08:16 <Phantom_Hoover> i read tvtropes plenty in my time
19:09:31 <Phantom_Hoover> when you can only talk about fiction in terms of tropes and subversions, though, you've read it too much
19:09:39 <int-e> Oh, Thimbleweed Park had a cute $25 pledge level.
19:09:59 <hppavilion[1]> It'd be really interesting, I think, because you'd be able to have easy communication with the Aliens, but not easy, right-out-of-the-box discussion
19:10:23 <hppavilion[1]> (also, it would probably be some arcane variant on Basque, not just a literal usage)
19:10:30 <zzo38> I no longer read tvtropes, but I sometimes read (and also sometimes edit) All The Tropes. Not all the time though; only sometimes (and probably not too much, either)
19:10:32 <hppavilion[1]> (Alienese:Basque::Scots:English)
19:10:47 <zzo38> Yes I like that idea too
19:11:00 <\oren\> What if the aliens are just humans from Atlantic
19:11:05 <\oren\> s/ic/is
19:11:29 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Atlantis is in the Atlantic, is it not?
19:11:42 <hppavilion[1]> If so, what was the Pacific version of Atlantis? Pacifis?
19:11:54 <\oren\> yes, and basque is spoken on the atlantic coast of spain
19:11:57 <hppavilion[1]> (Were they all Pacifists?)
19:11:59 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Ah
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19:12:23 <hppavilion[1]> I think Basque would be a good choice, because it's an earthly language, but not an easy one to learn- you can't draw *any* parallels except for maybe some loanwords
19:12:41 <hppavilion[1]> [or, you can't draw any *meaningful* parallels]
19:12:44 <int-e> . o O ( Basque in silence )
19:12:44 <hppavilion[1]> [AFAWK]
19:12:47 <zzo38> OK
19:13:20 <hppavilion[1]> So you'd have to either relearn communication from scratch or find a speaker, which is itself interesting because there aren't a very large number of Basque speakers
19:13:53 <hppavilion[1]> (Cornish is my second choice because it's a dead language that we have record of)
19:14:17 <\oren\> they finally land and the presidents of the world powers are expecting some kind of well, aliens, but they guy gets out and he just looks like a southern european
19:14:46 <\oren\> <what are you looking at?>
19:14:58 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: No, it would be a woman who gets out.
19:15:05 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Ooh! Or a man in drag.
19:15:30 <hppavilion[1]> "What? This is normal. (muttering) Buncha prudes"
19:16:18 <hppavilion[1]> You can even justify Aliens Speaking Basque because you can say that's where we got the language. That's why it isn't related to any others.
19:17:29 <hppavilion[1]> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_American_Sign_Language: The AAVE of sign language.
19:17:30 <zzo38> Ah, OK, yes you can make that story with the justify, it make sense
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19:18:50 <hppavilion[1]> They would show up speaking Basque because they're a tiny bit racist and figure that their Master Tung would have spread to the entire population by now because it's so great.
19:18:55 <Taneb> hppavilion[1], I believe Cornish has to some extend been resuccitated.
19:18:56 <rdococ> Consider the possibility that aliens may communicate in a "Starfish Language" where they use methods other than sonar.
19:19:34 <rdococ> For example, aliens could communicate by tapping each other's arms.
19:19:36 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: It's just *mostly* dead
19:19:50 <rdococ> Or, if you want to be really gross, through alien saliva.
19:20:28 * rdococ spits out inspirational alien saliva towards everyone
19:20:54 * rdococ excretes a creative pheromone.
19:21:06 <zzo38> Describe the points in the GURPS for defining such thing
19:21:24 -!- hppavilion[1] has changed nick to miracle_max.
19:21:26 <miracle_max> It just so happens that your language is only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Please open the books. Now, mostly dead is slightly alive. Now, all dead, well, with all dead, there's usually only one thing that you can do.
19:21:38 -!- miracle_max has changed nick to InigoMontoya.
19:21:42 <rdococ> Phoenix Down!!!
19:21:45 <InigoMontoya> What's that?
19:21:47 -!- InigoMontoya has changed nick to miracle_max.
19:21:57 <miracle_max> Join the Catholic Church.
19:22:00 -!- miracle_max has changed nick to hppavilion[1].
19:22:10 <rdococ> Or you can use any number of revival spells in variousgames.
19:22:41 <\oren\> LIF2
19:22:43 <zzo38> There may be limits of the revival spell in various games
19:23:01 -!- FreeFull has joined.
19:23:03 <zzo38> I think often is not quite good enough to revive dead languages.
19:23:13 <rdococ> You could press the Continue button on the Game Over screen.
19:23:34 <\oren\> or cast ReRaise on it before it dies
19:23:35 <rdococ> Or...
19:23:43 * rdococ excretes revival pheromones.
19:24:13 <zzo38> In a computer game yes, although I do not expect that to be good enough to revive dead languages either, only to continue the game with your character no longer dead.
19:24:30 <rdococ> What if your character is the language?
19:24:46 <zzo38> That seem strange, but, maybe the game can be made like that somehow.
19:24:50 <rdococ> "Super English Bros." with French, Italian and German!
19:25:23 <rdococ> Or, it could be a conquer-the-world type of game, but you're a language as opposed to an empire or a deadly plague.
19:25:29 <\oren\> Super Indo-European Bros
19:25:53 <\oren\> Brawl!
19:26:15 <zzo38> O, OK?
19:26:22 <\oren\> rdococ: you can sort of do that in EUIV
19:26:45 <\oren\> in the sense that you can culture-convert your provinces to you lead culture
19:27:14 <\oren\> so if you're muscovy you can make everyone speak Muscovite Russia
19:28:29 <zzo38> Do you like this? https://allthetropes.org/wiki/User:Zzo38
19:30:09 <\oren\> I remember one time I was playing as france and made the English culture extinct
19:30:33 <rdococ> Current English is half French anyway -.-
19:32:40 -!- augur has joined.
19:33:55 <rdococ> I was trying to come up with ideas for a language with some non-English sounds
19:34:01 <rdococ> palatal stop, palatal nasal...
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19:41:52 <\oren\> how about a labial affricate
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19:41:58 <\oren\> ("pf")
19:42:08 <\oren\> pfeffer
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19:43:30 <\oren\> or ('bv')
19:43:33 <rdococ> kx
19:44:33 <rdococ> How about I make up as many digraphs as possible that equate to the same sound?
19:45:04 <zzo38> If all of the words equate to the same sound then how can you know what you are meaning when you are saying?
19:45:32 <rdococ> Exactly!
19:45:46 <\oren\> also you would do different things with syllable structure
19:46:39 <\oren\> english does sothing along the lines of s?C[rlyw]?V[rlyw]?Cs?
19:47:21 <rdococ> wat
19:47:29 <\oren\> whereas Japanese does CVn?
19:47:35 <rdococ> well
19:47:39 <rdococ> I will be doing
19:47:40 <rdococ> idk
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19:54:37 <orby> Hello all
19:55:04 <rdococ> I found a good one
19:55:27 <rdococ> CV[D/C]VCV[D/C]V where D refers to any of the various digraphs
19:55:33 <rdococ> and [A/B] is either A or B
19:55:39 <rdococ> bakanudzju
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19:59:24 <hppavilion[1]> "In Soviet $country, $permute([$sadj $subj $adv $verb $oadj $obj])"
20:00:03 <rdococ> olo
20:01:08 <rdococ> Anyway, my sentence order will be random, but it will always have two O's.
20:01:23 <rdococ> so SOOV, SOVO, OOVS, OVOS, VOSO, etc. are allowed.
20:01:40 <rdococ> Kinda like set notation for ordered pairs.
20:01:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
20:01:53 <\oren\> I a pie ate a pie
20:02:06 <rdococ> ye
20:02:17 <rdococ> Lie lie is the cake
20:02:29 <rdococ> aw
20:02:29 <rdococ> gtg
20:06:22 -!- ruut has joined.
20:08:50 <hppavilion[1]> `tmflry cake
20:08:51 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: tmflry: cannot execute: Is a directory
20:08:57 <hppavilion[1]> `tomfoolery
20:08:58 <HackEgo> I have nothing to tell you.
20:08:59 <hppavilion[1]> `tomfoolery cake
20:09:00 <HackEgo> I must confess, I know not of what you are speaking.
20:09:09 <hppavilion[1]> `cat le/rn
20:09:09 <HackEgo> sep="//" \ [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || { echo 'Usage: `le/[/]rn <key>//<wisdom>' >&2 ; exit 1; } \ key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)" \ value="${1#*$sep}" \ [ -e "wisdom/$key" ] && verb="Relearned" || verb="Learned" \ echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "wisdom/$key")" && echo -n "$verb '$key': $(echo "$value" | sed 's.^[ ].&.')"
20:09:13 <hppavilion[1]> `cat misle/rn
20:09:14 <HackEgo> sep="/"; [[ "$0" == *//* ]] && sep="//"; [[ "$1" == ?*"$sep"* ]] || exit 1; key="$(echo "${1%%$sep*}" | lowercase)"; value="${1#*$sep}"; echo "$value" > "$(echo-p "tmflry/$key")" && echo "Was lied to about «$key»"
20:09:24 <hppavilion[1]> `paste le/rn
20:09:25 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/le/rn
20:09:46 <hppavilion[1]> `paste bin/slashlern
20:09:47 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/bin/slashlern
20:10:02 <hppavilion[1]> `paste ../bin/slashlern
20:10:03 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.577 \ cat: ../bin/slashlern: No such file or directory
20:10:14 <hppavilion[1]> `which slashlern
20:10:14 <HackEgo> No output.
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20:32:38 <hppavilion[1]> @metar PAMR
20:32:39 <lambdabot> No result.
20:32:42 <hppavilion[1]> @metar PAMR
20:32:42 <lambdabot> No result.
20:32:44 <hppavilion[1]> Uh
20:32:49 <hppavilion[1]> `metar PAMR
20:32:50 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar PAMR
20:32:50 <lambdabot> No result.
20:32:53 -!- ruut has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:32:58 <hppavilion[1]> Is lambdabot down?
20:33:07 -!- ruut has joined.
20:33:34 <hppavilion[1]> Nope, looks like it's METAR itself
20:35:01 -!- ruut has quit (Client Quit).
20:35:04 <hppavilion[1]> `metar
20:35:05 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/airport-lookup", line 20, in <module> \ print '%s (%s, %s)' % (row[1], f(row[4]), f(row[5])) \ IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe \ lambdabot: @metar AYGA
20:35:11 <hppavilion[1]> @metar AYGA
20:35:11 <lambdabot> No result.
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20:37:19 * hppavilion[1] is scared
20:37:22 <hppavilion[1]> is METAR broken?
20:38:36 <hppavilion[1]> @metar KJFK
20:38:36 <lambdabot> No result.
20:38:43 -!- ruut has quit (Client Quit).
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20:40:42 <int-e> @google lambdabot
20:40:44 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/Lambdabot
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20:56:20 <\oren\> a singleton is an OO zealot saying penance in the form of boilerplate for the sin of using a global
20:57:17 <shachaf> \oren\: One time I had a job interview of some sort where the interviewer kept trying to get me to say "singleton".
20:57:44 <shachaf> And I kept avoiding it and saying global variable or something instead.
20:58:36 <\oren\> nice
20:58:55 <shachaf> It was great.
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21:21:26 <quintopia> The Witness is half off :D
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22:27:57 <shapr> I've heard it's good
22:34:57 <shachaf> I enjoyed it.
22:50:56 -!- boily has joined.
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22:51:32 <boily> `wisdom
22:51:33 <HackEgo> superduperinteressantesandersonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal//Superduperinteressantesandersonnegelegenesdorfmitoderohnesahneistunsdabeiabsolutscheissegal is where mroman lives.
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23:07:56 <quintopia> helloily
23:08:03 <quintopia> hows ur monday
23:13:49 <boily> quinthellopia!
23:13:58 <boily> I got hit by a beep beep sheep.
23:14:16 <boily> is it mondayful on your end?
23:14:32 <quintopia> its fine. sitting in SFO, two hours early.
23:14:41 <quintopia> what is a beep beep sheep
23:16:04 <boily> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZlfbep2LdU
23:16:09 <boily> @metar KSFO
23:16:09 <lambdabot> No result.
23:18:33 <boily> ...?
23:18:42 <boily> @iaca SFO
23:18:42 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:18:45 <boily> @iata SFO
23:18:45 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
23:18:47 <boily> ...
23:18:49 <boily> @icao SFO
23:18:49 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "freenode", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "boily!~alexandre@cable-192.222.245.222.electronicbox.net", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#
23:18:49 <lambdabot> esoteric",":@icao SFO"]} target:#esoteric rest:"SFO"
23:20:16 <quintopia> those poor sheeps their elbows bend backwards ow :(
23:25:39 <int-e> @metar lowi
23:25:39 <lambdabot> LOWI 032220Z AUTO 27004KT 200V310 9999 FEW036 SCT046 BKN050 11/07 Q1021
23:25:49 <int-e> @metar ksfo
23:25:49 <lambdabot> No result.
23:27:04 <int-e> KSFO 032056Z 29015KT 10SM FEW200 19/01 A2999 RMK AO2 SLP155 T01940011 58009 hmm.
23:27:21 <fizzie> `` iata SFO # though you got it right the first time
23:27:22 <HackEgo> San Francisco Intl (SFO, KSFO)
23:27:47 <int-e> that's almost 4 hours old and lambdabot asks for an entry that's no older than 2 hours.
23:28:08 <int-e> ?
23:28:41 <int-e> no, that's wrong
23:28:56 <shachaf> shapr: I think int-e was ambivalent on The Poochness.
23:29:10 <int-e> @metar ksfo
23:29:10 <lambdabot> KSFO 032056Z 29015KT 10SM FEW200 19/01 A2999 RMK AO2 SLP155 T01940011 58009
23:29:37 <shachaf> `? weather
23:29:38 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @@ @@ (@where weather) CYUL ENVA ESSB KOAK PAMR
23:29:41 <lambdabot> No result. \ ENVA 032220Z VRB02KT CAVOK 09/01 Q1013 RMK WIND 670FT 16006KT \ ESSB 032220Z AUTO 15005KT 9999 OVC002/// 01/00 Q1025 \ KOAK 032053Z 23011KT 10SM FEW250 19/06 A2999 RMK AO2 SLP153
23:29:41 <lambdabot> T01940061 58010 \ No result.
23:31:04 <int-e> CYUL 032000Z 10005KT 090V170 30SM FEW180 SCT220 08/M07 A3004 RMK AC1CI4 AC TR SLP176 <-- okay, this one is definitely older than 2 hours.
23:31:17 <shachaf> @metar CYUL
23:31:18 <lambdabot> No result.
23:31:31 <shachaf> @metar KSJC
23:31:31 <lambdabot> KSJC 032053Z 32010KT 10SM FEW100 22/03 A2997 RMK AO2 SLP147 T02220033 58015
23:31:39 <shachaf> life is skittles and life is beer
23:32:04 <shachaf> `? oerjan
23:32:05 <HackEgo> Your omnipheasant principal witty arrant knave oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance; but lately it's the only word he ever rememes. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
23:32:34 <int-e> but they seem to have some other problem as well
23:32:43 <int-e> @metar PAMR
23:32:43 <lambdabot> PAMR 032053Z 02007KT 10SM CLR 04/M06 A2972 RMK AO2 SLP065 T00391056 58034 $
23:33:37 <int-e> "they" being www.aviationweather.gov
23:33:52 <shachaf> `swrjan s/;[^\.]\+//
23:33:54 <HackEgo> oerjan//Your omnipheasant principal witty arrant knave oerjan the indecisive is a hazy expert in merry compaction. Also a Glaswede who disses Roald Dahl. He could never render the word "amortized" so he put it here for connivance. His arch-nemesis is Betty Crocker. He twice punned without noticing it.
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23:36:32 <boily> omnipheasant?
23:36:50 <shachaf> You should complain.
23:36:53 <shachaf> write a letter to the editwr
23:36:59 <quintopia> boily: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5sgsOPIN5A
23:37:08 <shachaf> I think if anyone is omnipheasant here, it's probably boily.
23:37:43 <\oren\> https://kpopalypse.com/2017/03/11/why-its-not-okay-to-wear-frenchface-ever/ lol
23:38:05 <int-e> you could replace 'ph' by 'pl'
23:38:44 <shachaf> `dowg oerjan
23:38:53 <HackEgo> 10582:2017-04-03 <shachäf> swrjan s/;[^\\.]\\+// \ 10561:2017-03-31 <oerjän> swrjan s/lik/s/ \ 10560:2017-03-31 <oerjän> swrjan s/l/h/;s/cis/decis/;s/can //;s/meme/&s/ \ 10559:2017-03-31 <shachäf> swrjan s.exclu.inci. \ 10558:2017-03-31 <shachäf> swrjan s.rant.arrant knave. \ 10531:2017-03-27 <shachäf> swrjan spresentpleasantp \ 10530:2
23:39:10 <boily> quintopia: I love those guys!
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23:44:14 <boily> time for a mac'n'cheese, because this is the Mac'n'Cheese Week.
23:44:38 <boily> (yes, really. nonsense, but eh, who am I to complain, eh?)
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23:45:30 <shachaf> @tell boily why not make modified mac and cheese? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6AKDODgLwU
23:45:31 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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2017-04-04
00:04:20 -!- Warrigal has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
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00:20:57 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: I don't know OO really. WHat does anyy of that mean?
00:21:35 * oerjan high fives hppavilion[1]
00:21:59 <hppavilion[1]> Is a singleton when you have an object that doesn't do anything except for store either only loosely- or entirely-unrelated data?
00:22:03 <oerjan> functional or bust!
00:22:03 <shachaf> oerjan-oriented programming
00:22:06 <hppavilion[1]> Instead of just storing it globally?
00:22:17 * hppavilion[1] creates the wiki page for ØO
00:22:26 <shachaf> @google what is a singleton
00:22:27 <lambdabot> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singleton_pattern
00:22:51 <hppavilion[1]> "In software engineering, the singleton pattern is a software design pattern that restricts the instantiation of a class to one object."
00:22:56 <shachaf> A singleton is a class that only has one instance.
00:23:00 <shachaf> This instance is stored in a global variable.
00:23:28 <shachaf> But instead of using that global variable directly, you call a method called getInstance() which checks if the variable is initialized and initializes it if it isn't.
00:23:31 <hppavilion[1]> So it's basically using a class for the exact opposite of what classes were invented for?
00:23:42 <oerjan> alas, even haskell has singletons, although goldfire is trying to fix that.
00:24:00 <shachaf> You just said you don't know OO, so how do you know what classes were invented for?
00:24:05 <shachaf> checkmate atheists
00:24:43 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I don't do OO in the sense of using it as my technique. I still do plenty of stuff with classes when they're useful, but I don't structure my code *around* having classes
00:25:01 <shachaf> oerjan: What's wrong with Haskell singletons?
00:25:06 * oerjan has read the original Simula Begin book, or at least part of it.
00:25:30 <oerjan> shachaf: they're just a poor man's pi types, or something.
00:25:39 <hppavilion[1]> Like, if I need a Euclidean Vector, I'll create the EuVector class and make it deal with vectors logically, overloading operators as needed
00:26:10 * oerjan doesn't really know dependent typing either, obviously
00:26:33 <hppavilion[1]> Because that makes sense. I don't want to have to use addVectors(a, b) for addition, and if I'm using Vectors then I'm using a *lot* of vectors, so bundling their structure together in one big thing makes sense
00:26:38 <shachaf> oerjan: Do you like System F?
00:26:53 <oerjan> System F is beautiful
00:27:05 <shachaf> @ask zzo38 Do you like this?
00:27:05 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
00:27:25 <hppavilion[1]> Classes are good if you want a bunch of related data together, and you want to have a structure for putting that variety of related data together.
00:27:28 <oerjan> shachaf: are you sure you're not approaching harassment with that phrase
00:27:37 <shachaf> oerjan: no :'(
00:27:46 <shachaf> i wouldn't want to be harassing people
00:28:17 <shachaf> i hardly even noticed it until a third party pointed it out
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01:32:57 <Jafet> `? this
01:32:58 <HackEgo> this is a word
01:44:53 <hppavilion[1]> The real problem with Stranger Danger is that it implies to children they don't have to be constantly paranoid about people they *do* know
01:48:11 <Warrigal> So I've got a dumb Wikipedia game.
01:48:34 <Warrigal> Start at whatever article. Try to get to the article "Indo-European languages" by following no more than 4 links.
01:49:10 <Warrigal> Example...
01:49:20 <Warrigal> "Mirza Mohammadabad (Persian: ميرزامحمداباد‎‎, also Romanized as Mīrzā Moḩammadābād) is a village in Garamduz Rural District, Garamduz District, Khoda Afarin County, East Azerbaijan Province, Iran."
01:49:27 <Warrigal> Option 1:
01:50:06 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:50:25 <Warrigal> That page happens to mention [[Daylight saving time]], and that article mentions the [[German Empire]], from which you can go to the [[German language]], and thence to [[Indo-European languages]].
01:50:48 <Warrigal> Option 2: dude, Persian is an Indo-European language. You only need 2 clicks.
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02:05:19 <Zarutian> Warrigal: can I convince you to deposit some in my Daylight Savings Fund? You know, sunlight for rainy day?
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02:20:09 <hppavilion[1]> @tell Warrigal Oh yeah? Well I've got an even dumber Wikipedia game: Get to the main page in as few clicks as possible.
02:20:09 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:20:46 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I just thought of an actually-interesting one, but you have to be polylingual to make it work
02:21:16 <hppavilion[1]> Given a page and two wikipedia, get from that page on the first wiki to its counterpart on the second in as few clicks as possible
02:24:20 <Zarutian> @tell Warrigal can I convince you to deposit some in my Daylight Savings Fund? You know, sunlight for rainy day?
02:24:20 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
02:30:13 <shachaf> DST is scow
02:30:58 <shachaf> But I'd be interested in some esoteric daylight derivatives.
02:31:04 <shachaf> I guess they usually call them exotic.
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03:13:25 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: now get to the main page without clicking on anything outside the article proper hth
03:13:50 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: NEEVEEEEEEEEEEER
03:14:39 <oerjan> in fact your polylingual one also needs that restriction to be interesting.
03:16:12 * oerjan feels he may have gone overboard in backseat golfing a newbie at PPCG
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03:17:32 <oerjan> ok apparently not.
03:17:38 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: The latter case is acceptable
03:18:12 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Well, it's still interesting in the latter case, but not as much; you're just taking the distance to a particular article from the main page of the target language +1
03:20:12 <oerjan> um the sidebar links go to the corresponding page
03:42:07 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: oh.
03:42:11 <hppavilion[1]> Have we made Esopunk a thing yet?
04:08:20 <oerjan> @ask rdococ <rdococ> Or, if you want to be really gross, through alien saliva. <-- have you read yudkowsky's Three Worlds Collide hth
04:08:20 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
04:17:27 <oerjan> @metar ENVA
04:17:27 <lambdabot> ENVA 040250Z 10004KT CAVOK 05/01 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 16010KT
04:18:01 <oerjan> `cat bin/metar
04:18:02 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ icao="$(airport "$*" | sed -e "s/.*, //;s/)//" | head -n 1)" \ echo lambdabot: @metar "${icao:-$1}"
04:18:52 <oerjan> `metar
04:18:53 <HackEgo> Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/airport-lookup", line 20, in <module> \ print '%s (%s, %s)' % (row[1], f(row[4]), f(row[5])) \ IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe \ lambdabot: @metar AYGA
04:19:02 <oerjan> `metar ENVA
04:19:03 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar ENVA
04:19:03 <lambdabot> ENVA 040250Z 10004KT CAVOK 05/01 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 16010KT
04:19:16 <oerjan> `airport
04:19:17 <HackEgo> Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ P
04:19:20 -!- potato has joined.
04:19:34 <potato> hello
04:19:37 <potato> everyone
04:19:43 -!- potato has changed nick to Guest54930.
04:19:54 <Guest54930> oh okay
04:19:55 <Guest54930> then
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04:20:38 <oerjan> `sled bin/metar//s,head,shuf,
04:20:40 <HackEgo> bin/metar//#!/bin/bash \ icao="$(airport "$*" | sed -e "s/.*, //;s/)//" | shuf -n 1)" \ echo lambdabot: @metar "${icao:-$1}"
04:20:47 <oerjan> `metar
04:20:48 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar ?
04:20:54 <oerjan> `metar
04:20:55 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar SARI
04:20:55 <lambdabot> SARI 040300Z 00000KT CAVOK 21/20 Q1013
04:21:39 <oerjan> `cat bin/airport
04:21:40 <HackEgo> airport-lookup any "$*"
04:21:56 <oerjan> `cat bin/airport-lookup
04:21:56 <HackEgo> ​#! /usr/bin/env python \ \ import csv \ import sys \ \ if len(sys.argv) < 3: sys.stderr.write('usage: airport-lookup any|name|iata|icao key\n'); sys.exit(1) \ kind, q = sys.argv[1], ' '.join(sys.argv[2:]) \ \ fieldnames = dict(name=1, iata=4, icao=5) \ if kind == 'any': fields = [1, 4, 5] \ elif kind in fieldnames: fields = [fieldnames[kind]]
04:22:14 <oerjan> `airport
04:22:15 <HackEgo> Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ P
04:22:26 <oerjan> `airport
04:22:26 <HackEgo> Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Goroka (GKA, AYGA) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Madang (MAG, AYMD) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Nadzab (LAE, AYNZ) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ Port Moresby Jacksons Intl (POM, AYPY) \ P
04:22:40 <shachaf> @tell zzo38 By "this" I meant System F. Hope that helps.
04:22:41 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
04:22:45 <oerjan> `metar
04:22:46 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar VANR
04:22:46 <lambdabot> No result.
04:23:04 <oerjan> oh it was just a random ?
04:23:28 <shachaf> `metar
04:23:29 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar YBPN
04:23:30 <lambdabot> YBPN 040300Z AUTO 12018KT 9999 // NCD 29/21 Q1013
04:23:38 <shachaf> `cat bin/metar
04:23:39 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/bash \ icao="$(airport "$*" | sed -e "s/.*, //;s/)//" | shuf -n 1)" \ echo lambdabot: @metar "${icao:-$1}"
04:23:59 <shachaf> oerjan: You should be able to provide partial airport names, e.g. just a country.
04:24:24 <oerjan> `airport norway
04:24:25 <HackEgo> Norway House Airport (YNE, CYNE)
04:25:01 <oerjan> it doesn't actually search the country field, though.
04:25:12 <oerjan> `airport EN
04:25:13 <HackEgo> Mount Hagen (HGU, AYMH) \ Estevan (YEN, CYEN) \ Estevan (YEN, CYEN) \ Geraldton Greenstone Regional (YGQ, CYGQ) \ Dryden Rgnl (YHD, CYHD) \ Gjoa Haven (YHK, CYHK) \ Stephenville (YJT, CYJT) \ Moose Jaw Air Vice Marshal C M Mcewen (YMJ, CYMJ) \ Port Menier (YPN, CYPN) \ Kenora (YQK, CYQK) \ Trenton (YTR, CYTR) \ City Centre (YTZ, CYTZ) \ Edmonton Ci
04:25:50 <shachaf> Oh, wait.
04:25:55 <shachaf> I didn't see the $* part.
04:26:25 <shachaf> `metar K
04:26:26 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar UNKY
04:26:26 <lambdabot> No result.
04:26:49 <shachaf> `edit bin/airport-lookup
04:26:50 <HackEgo> https://hackego.esolangs.org/edit/bin/airport-lookup
04:27:09 <shachaf> I guess I could've just used `url
04:27:41 <shachaf> airport-lookup just does substring matching? It should do something more expressive.
04:28:15 <shachaf> please add regular expression matching twh
04:28:44 <oerjan> it's fizzie's work i think. or at least addition.
04:43:17 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, has anybody found Donny's PornHub or Xvideos account yet?
04:43:33 <shachaf> Maybe you should ask your Twitter followers.
05:38:49 <hppavilion[1]> Gragh, what's the name of that famous gay homophobe preacher again?
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08:10:14 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: News: Bombing in St. Petersburg | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
08:10:42 <hppavilion[1]> [huh, looks like it's old news. 9 hours at least]
08:10:59 <hppavilion[1]> [Suspect from Kyrgystan]
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11:43:25 <boily> fungot: nostril.
11:43:25 <fungot> boily: is it possible to use swig and an ffi without knowing c++?)
11:43:41 <boily> fungot: no, especially when knowing C++.
11:43:41 <fungot> boily: now i got it right that is.)
11:43:58 <boily> @massages-loud
11:43:58 <lambdabot> shachaf said 11h 58m 27s ago: why not make modified mac and cheese? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6AKDODgLwU
11:50:29 <boily> helloochaf ^^
11:51:21 <boily> last night's mac'n'cheese was good. I should've taken a picture. maybe next week, if I don't get distracted by the smoked meat.
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11:55:30 <shachaf> was it modified?
12:02:16 <boily> quite saucy, gratiné, served with roasted cheddar chips.
12:07:34 <b_jonas_> Hmm, so the D&D rules say you can still score a critical hit with an improvised weapons. That means we only know that the legend of the horn of Lehel is apocriphial for a historical reason, not because the event itself is impossible.
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12:08:47 <b_jonas> "<int-e> We also need a new prime example of vaporware now that Duke Nukem Forever is released." yeah.
12:09:43 <b_jonas> what do you count as vaporware? does it matter if we expect that it will never be completed, versus if we expect that it will be completed but take like a decade or two more?
12:10:00 <Jafet> could it have been a sneak attack with an improvised weapon?
12:10:06 <b_jonas> ah yes, ASOIAF is a good example too
12:18:52 <b_jonas> "<hppavilion[1]> You can even justify Aliens Speaking Basque because you can say that's where we got the language. That's why it isn't related to any others." => sure, there's that old myth about Hungarians
12:19:28 <b_jonas> though of course it might be easier to justify if the aliens just learn the language from some human they first met
12:19:53 <b_jonas> and their saucer just randomly happened to land in a place where people speak that language
12:20:29 <b_jonas> "<\oren\> or cast ReRaise on it before it dies" => "ReRaise"?
12:22:23 <b_jonas> "<shachaf> \oren\: One time I had a job interview of some sort where the interviewer kept trying to get me to say "singleton"." => was this one of those interviews where they expect you to have learnt "design patterns"?
12:26:20 <b_jonas> Jafet: um, how do sneak attacks work in D&D? I think it's something strange where you can do them even without sneaking. or was that surprise attacks, which you can do without surprising?
12:27:46 <b_jonas> Jafet: I dunno really
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14:50:48 <izabera> "yellow bellied weasels" someone used this as an insult i think
14:50:59 <izabera> what does that mean?
14:52:07 <b_jonas> izabera: you can use anything as an insult really if it's clear from the context that it's an insult. that's useful if you're driving cars abroad and want to swear at other drivers with whom you don't share a languag.e
14:54:38 <fizzie> izabera: I believe yellow-bellied = cowardly.
14:54:48 <izabera> why?
14:55:21 <fizzie> There's conflicting etymologies in the internet, I don't know which one to trust.
14:55:46 <fizzie> http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/yellow-belly.html is a bit of a summary of sorts.
14:56:03 <fizzie> And of course for the other half, 1. weasel -- (a person who is regarded as treacherous or sneaky).
14:57:53 <izabera> thanks
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17:23:19 <\oren\> b_jonas: ReRaise is a spell from Final Fantasy 6
17:23:53 <\oren\> it automatically casts Raise on a character when they die
17:24:43 <oerjan> . o O ( what about when they get a pay cut )
17:25:33 -!- oerjan has set topic: News: Nothing on topic | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
17:25:39 <\oren\> . o O (Someone make an anime called "Our Tank is a part timer")
17:26:46 <oerjan> Parutimuro the Tanku
17:27:26 <oerjan> wait, no ti
17:28:04 <oerjan> Paruchimuro?
17:28:05 <b_jonas> oerjan: "the"?
17:28:27 <b_jonas> \oren\: I see
17:28:28 <oerjan> b_jonas: only in the translated version, obviously.
17:28:58 <oerjan> (Paruchimuro is the tank's name)
17:29:34 <oerjan> or maybe the translaters are just misinterpreting it that way
17:29:36 <oerjan> *o
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17:31:07 <b_jonas> oerhan: nothing on topic? they found a new pyramid in Egypt! http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/40/262156/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/Remains-of-th-Dynasty-pyramid-discovered-in-Dahshu.aspx
17:31:34 <oerjan> i guess that's esoteric enough
17:31:44 <b_jonas> a pyramid hiding so well that people haven't noticed so far? that's obviously proof of alien cloaking technology
17:31:53 -!- oerjan has set topic: News: New pyramid found in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
17:32:17 * oerjan was really just trying to get rid of the bomb news
17:34:18 <\oren\> bomberman used to be a game, not something you do to survive your commutr
17:35:05 <b_jonas> seriously, a new pyramid?
17:35:06 <oerjan> b_jonas: actually the pyramid seems to be just parts left, so it's easier to hide. however, a pyramid being destroyed like that is obvious proof of ancient nuclear weapons!
17:36:20 <oerjan> clearly some aliens used a brahmastra there
17:37:33 <oerjan> which also explains why there's so much desert.
17:39:45 <shachaf> b_jonas: I don't know.
17:40:30 <b_jonas> oerjan: hehe
17:42:46 <b_jonas> oerjan: note that it's one of the pyramids built the latest, during the 13th dynasty. I think that means those ancient aliens are still building pyramids in the past as we speak, and when they build it in the past, we discover them meanwhile in the present.
17:43:01 <b_jonas> It's just not a very common event, because they only build one every few decades.
17:45:10 <oerjan> figures
17:45:49 <oerjan> (would these aliens happen to be three in number, and pretty stupid?)
17:52:46 <b_jonas> Instead of basing our metric system on hard to measure nuclear stuff, we should just define the centimeter as the thickness of typical wooden boards used in furniture.
17:57:21 * oerjan tries in vain to backronym IKEA for the purpose
17:57:36 <oerjan> International is easy.
17:58:06 <oerjan> oh wait, maybe it's in swedish
17:58:24 <oerjan> um still no help.
18:00:04 <rdococ> aperture
18:00:17 <oerjan> imagine a world in which IKEA were the first to introduce standard measures.
18:00:29 <oerjan> @wn aperture
18:00:30 <lambdabot> *** "aperture" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
18:00:30 <lambdabot> aperture
18:00:30 <lambdabot> n 1: a device that controls amount of light admitted
18:00:30 <lambdabot> 2: a natural opening in something
18:00:30 <lambdabot> 3: an man-made opening; usually small
18:00:41 <oerjan> hm i don't think that fits.
18:00:58 <rdococ> 4: a fictional esoteric laboratory
18:01:15 <oerjan> i know. i don't think that's good for this purpose.
18:02:36 <rdococ> wait, what purpose?
18:02:57 <oerjan> to backronym IKEA into a wood-based international system of measure hth
18:03:20 <int-e> @metar lowi
18:03:20 <lambdabot> LOWI 041650Z 08007KT 050V110 9999 FEW025 SCT070 BKN110 10/06 Q1021 NOSIG
18:03:27 <oerjan> i was assuming you were trying to help with the A
18:03:27 <int-e> good, good.
18:03:29 <int-e> @botsnack
18:03:29 <lambdabot> :)
18:03:37 <oerjan> `metar
18:03:39 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar LICD
18:03:40 <lambdabot> LICD 041550Z 32012KT 9999 FEW025 16/12 Q1016
18:03:43 <int-e> @giggle lambdabot
18:03:45 <lambdabot> https://wiki.haskell.org/Lambdabot
18:04:09 <oerjan> @boggle ikea
18:04:09 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: hoogle google
18:04:11 <int-e> workaround for that is still holding too
18:04:12 <b_jonas> fungot, how would you define a centimeter?
18:04:12 <fungot> b_jonas: have you seen orion? :( but fis promised i cry now? mooz's going to kill someone? yes.
18:04:13 <oerjan> oops
18:04:26 <b_jonas> what
18:04:44 <oerjan> int-e: is lambdabot starting to get held together by duct tape?
18:05:32 <int-e> oerjan: "the problem" is flaky IPv6 neighbour discovery, and it's really not lambdabot's fault, I can repreduce it with a C program.
18:06:06 <oerjan> OKAY
18:09:00 <rdococ> International Ksomething Esomething Authority
18:09:40 <int-e> Knob Embellishment
18:09:54 <rdococ> YAKO
18:10:56 <rdococ> How about an esoteric-class type?
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18:28:54 <\oren\> oerjan: the katakanization of "part timer" would be paatotaimaa btw
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18:35:01 <rdococ> /pɑ:t taımə/ if you have a non-rhotic dialect
18:36:34 <\oren\> japanese katakanization of words is, in general, non-rhotic
18:37:28 <oerjan> mhm
18:37:31 <\oren\> apartment -> apaato, whiteboard -> howaitoboodo, etc
18:38:36 <rdococ> I doubt anyone pronounces the "wh" in wh words any more.
18:38:58 <\oren\> my dad does but he's really really old
18:39:17 <rdococ> I was working on a conlang with /c/ but meh.
18:39:23 <rdococ> I need motivation to continue it.
18:40:05 -!- augur has joined.
18:42:56 <rdococ> No motivation? :c
18:43:09 <\oren\> it also for some reason always assimilates t and y into ch
18:43:23 <\oren\> naisutumiichuu
18:43:48 <rdococ> Does Japanese itself have /t/ and /j/?
18:43:56 <\oren\> yes
18:44:01 <rdococ> Strange.
18:44:15 <b_jonas> \oren\: what does naisutumiichu mean?
18:44:24 <\oren\> nice to meet you
18:44:27 <b_jonas> ah
18:44:40 <b_jonas> strange
18:44:41 <rdococ> naisu tu miichuu
18:44:44 <b_jonas> `starwars
18:44:45 <HackEgo> the Rancor
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18:44:58 <rdococ> Oh.
18:45:05 <rdococ> You mean /tj/ becomes /tS/?
18:45:13 <\oren\> yes
18:45:13 <rdococ> That's not all that strange, to be honest.
18:45:35 <rdococ> It's pronounced with a /tS/ in my dialect too.
18:45:53 <\oren\> well yes some dialects of english have a lot of these features
18:46:00 <rdococ> /nais tu mitSu/
18:48:43 <\oren\> service -> サービス
18:48:54 <\oren\> saabisu
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18:49:56 <rdococ> I also tend to add /ɹ/ between some words.
18:53:01 <\oren\> what like "so the idea r is"
18:53:21 <rdococ> "so the idearis"
18:53:30 <\oren\> some people in my family do that
18:53:47 <rdococ> /aıdiæɹıs/
19:03:37 <rdococ> . o O ( I like using thought bubbles and porthellos outside of #esoteric )
19:07:45 <oerjan> <rdococ> I was working on a conlang with /c/ but meh. <- /c/ is all greek to me
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19:09:46 <rdococ> it's IPA.
19:09:55 <oerjan> *whoosh*
19:10:02 <rdococ> Also, it's Latin, not Greek.
19:10:42 <oerjan> i repeat, *whoosh*
19:12:29 <rdococ> *swipe*
19:12:37 <oerjan> eep
19:12:40 <oerjan> (wat)
19:13:13 <rdococ> (/wat/)
19:13:57 <oerjan> anyway, the word for "and" in modern greek starts with it, and seems _very_ common.
19:15:05 <oerjan> [ˈmicis θeoðoˈɾacis]
19:16:41 <rdococ> Sounds nice.
19:16:59 * oerjan should get back to learn more songs, but seems to get too preoccupied with code golfing...
19:17:49 * oerjan thinks his grammar is slipping, needs more -ing
19:18:16 <rdococ> Iing agreeing.
19:18:33 <rdococ> Iting woulding being bettering ifing youing useding moreing inging.ing
19:18:42 <oerjan> norwegian doesn't have progressive aspect like english
19:19:01 <rdococ> Sounds progressive.
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20:13:40 <\oren\> there's a political party in Ontario called the progressive conservatives
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20:53:33 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, I wonder if there are noneuclidean vectors
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21:08:13 <hppavilion[1]> I just thought of *one* time that singleton classes are reasonable (while programming; I need one) though I'd rather if I could just create it as a literal object
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21:08:55 <hppavilion[1]> Iff your language supports operator overloading, using a singleton to have an "undefined" type (for which any operation involving it is undefined) is allowed.
21:09:37 <wob_jonas> There should be a protocol that's half-compatible with IRC, with weaker guarantees, in which the servers need not be connected in a forest topology, so there can be cycles. That will help if we ever have servers on three non-collinear planets or moons or space stations, because restricting the connections to a forest can cause transmission delays.
21:09:47 <hppavilion[1]> (same goes for infinity and -infinity, I guess)
21:10:04 <shachaf> `5 w
21:10:09 <HackEgo> 1/2:^//^ (also notated by ⊕ or ⊻) is the exclusive-or operator; ∧ (also notated by /\ or &) is the and (conjunction) operator; ^ (also notated by ↑ or ** or ⋆) is the power operator. \ istr//istr istr is vaguely similar to iirc. \ all//All that glitters is not gold. \ infinitive//Infinitives are atomic verbs. They were first spl
21:10:35 <shachaf> `n
21:10:36 <HackEgo> 2/2:it in the 1940s, and the world hasn't looked back since. \ xor//Xor is just addition of nimbers.
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21:21:21 <shachaf> `dowg istr
21:21:28 <HackEgo> 10567:2017-04-02 <oerjän> learn istr istr is vaguely similar to iirc.
21:21:54 <shachaf> istr = int-e seems to recall?
21:22:11 <hppavilion[1]> wob_jonas: I'm not actually sure what connected servers mean?
21:22:23 <shachaf> oerjan: istr "istr" is vaguely similar to "iirc" iirc
21:22:46 <hppavilion[1]> coquine "coquine" is a coquine.
21:23:10 <shachaf> Classes are scow.
21:23:27 <shachaf> object-oriented programming < return-oriented programming
21:23:29 <wob_jonas> hpp: and IRC network (which is this stuff we're talking on now, you know) is made of servers and clients. each client is connected to one server, and the servers are connected to each other, but not pairwise, but only in a tree shape. the servers manage to transmit the messages on channels and private messages and all other stuff to the right clien
21:23:29 <wob_jonas> ts.
21:23:31 <hppavilion[1]> (a coquine is a program which never outputs its own source code; to coquine a string s is to output anything but «<s> "<s>"»
21:24:14 <shachaf> Do you mean anything by the word "co"?
21:24:19 <shachaf> I mean prefix.
21:24:22 <shachaf> Just "not"?
21:24:33 <wob_jonas> hpp: the servers within an IRC network are connected so eg. if a client says something on a #-channel on one server, then every client who's joined that channel on any server will get that message.
21:25:18 <wob_jonas> hpp: does that make any sense?
21:30:00 <wob_jonas> An alternate theory (to martians) is that the new pyramid was made for publicity by WotC for the upcoming Amonkhet set, which has an ancient Egypt theme.
21:30:53 <wob_jonas> So in that case, Mark Rosewater went back in time more than three thousand years, carried the giant stones on his own back, and built the pyramid.
21:31:14 <wob_jonas> I don't know whether that's more believable than the martian spaceship hangars.
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21:49:33 <int-e> . o O ( return oriented programming is one of those things that makes your computer not just useful to you, but to a greater part of society... )
21:50:11 <shachaf> hint-e
21:50:17 <shachaf> Did you read _Max Und Moritz_?
21:50:25 <int-e> been ages
21:50:38 <wob_jonas> `? altruism
21:50:38 <HackEgo> altruism? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
21:50:43 <wob_jonas> `quote altruism
21:50:45 <HackEgo> No output.
21:50:51 <shachaf> Do you remember the teacher? They made fun of him for being a goat, I think.
21:50:56 <shachaf> Or for being goat-like.
21:50:58 <shachaf> Having a beard?
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21:53:28 <int-e> easy to find out... http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17161/17161-h/17161-h.htm#Vierter_Streich
21:53:54 * hppavilion[1] applies the Fast Furrier Transform to a vector containing all of the world's Sphynx cats
21:56:36 <int-e> shachaf: So... the goat-like person was the tailor.
21:56:47 <shachaf> Ah, makes sense.
21:57:24 <hppavilion[1]> ...
21:57:41 <hppavilion[1]> `addquote <int-e> So... the goat-like person was the tailor. <shachaf> Ah, makes sense.
21:57:43 <HackEgo> 1311) <int-e> So... the goat-like person was the tailor. <shachaf> Ah, makes sense.
21:57:59 <shachaf> scow quote imo
21:58:54 <int-e> (and basically it was just because of the name)
21:59:06 <shachaf> Ah, right.
21:59:10 <int-e> `` revert #veto
21:59:11 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /hackenv/bin/revert: Permission denied
21:59:11 <shachaf> Anyway, did you read Jim Knopf?
21:59:16 <int-e> `revert
21:59:17 <HackEgo> Done.
21:59:24 <int-e> I forgot that this is built in :P
21:59:37 <wob_jonas> yes, once, but don't remember much of it
21:59:38 <int-e> No, I didn't read Jim Knopf.
21:59:54 <shachaf> Oh.
21:59:57 <shachaf> How about Momo?
22:00:04 <int-e> Yes.
22:00:09 <wob_jonas> except for the giant that appears bigger if you look at them from farther, which is the opposite from normal people, who seem tinier if seen from farther
22:00:19 <wob_jonas> sure, Momo is great!
22:00:20 <shachaf> Mr. Tur-Tur
22:00:22 <wob_jonas> I love Momo
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22:00:51 <int-e> Tough names though, what's the tortoise called... was it Kassiopeia?
22:01:03 <shachaf> Yes, Cassiopeia or something like that.
22:01:07 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_turtles hth
22:01:15 <wob_jonas> int-e: yes. from the constellation.
22:01:22 <shachaf> I read it in Hebrew.
22:01:27 <shachaf> But I later reread it English.
22:01:44 <int-e> I read it in German, naturally.
22:01:52 <wob_jonas> what? why'd you do that? is the Hebrew translation that bad?
22:01:53 <int-e> (semi-pun :P)
22:02:02 <wob_jonas> or was it no longer available to you?
22:02:18 <shachaf> I think it's not easy to get in the US.
22:02:27 <shachaf> There were probably at least 15 years between the readings.
22:02:37 <wob_jonas> :-(
22:02:43 <shachaf> What?
22:03:11 <shachaf> Oh man, those scow gray gentlemen.
22:03:15 <shachaf> They even got Beppo?
22:03:18 <shachaf> What a scow.
22:03:31 <shachaf> I'm reading the plot summary now.
22:03:32 <wob_jonas> it's just sad in general that we still live in a world where I have to go to libraries, and often can't get books, especially ones published abroad, from them
22:03:44 <shachaf> Wait, did I actually reread it in English?
22:03:46 <wob_jonas> why can't I just get any book digitally through the internet, no matter where it was published?
22:03:52 <shachaf> Maybe I only bought a copy and didn't read it?
22:03:58 <shachaf> Oh, digital books are scow.
22:04:00 <wob_jonas> shachaf: hehehe
22:04:12 <wob_jonas> shachaf: sure, I like dead-tree books too
22:04:24 <shachaf> Master Secundus Minutus Hora
22:04:26 <wob_jonas> but still, I'd prefer digital books over no books
22:04:40 <wob_jonas> yep, those are some of the characters
22:05:12 <shachaf> cigars are scow
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22:50:24 <hppavilion[1]> Hm. Problem with referring to Native Americans as "Indians" (or "American Indians"): If the people in the Antilles (where Columbus landed) were Indians, that would make Natives living in now-Colorado Turkmen
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23:40:50 <boily> `wisdom
23:40:52 <HackEgo> cosplay//Cosplay is the art of dressing up as people to show off to other people dressed up as people.
23:41:51 <boily> I should cosplay into something bright pink. that way, if I ever get lost during the next convention, I'll know where to find me.
23:42:32 <DHeadshot> Mr Blobby?
23:43:06 <boily> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
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23:44:11 <DHeadshot> ?
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23:44:37 <\oren\> boily: you should cosplay as Madoka
23:44:52 <boily> he\\oren\! good idea!
23:47:53 <\oren\> Apparently Emma Watson is a furry
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23:48:42 <boily> eh?
23:49:03 <\oren\> http://dlisted.com/2017/03/13/emma-watson-is-totally-a-furry/
23:49:26 <\oren\> “Aslan in Narnia. I found the lion quite hot. Is that wrong? Is that okay? Probably not. No, it’s not okay. It’s not okay. I’m getting shaking heads. It happens. Sometimes animals in films are hot. I don’t know what to say.” -- Emma Watson
23:49:57 <\oren\> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
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23:51:30 * boily acquires a large sodium chloride crystal and waves it around his desktop
23:53:09 <\oren\> I agree,http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/3/2055/1187025029_Suffer_Not_the_Furry_to_Live_Desu.jpg
23:55:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:57:16 <hppavilion[1]> Well, it's abuse of mathematics time. i̊ = (π/180)√-1.
2017-04-05
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00:08:27 <boily> `wisdom
00:08:28 <HackEgo> partial order//A partial order is just a small thin skeletal category.
00:08:57 <boily> @ping
00:08:58 <lambdabot> pong
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00:15:41 <quintopia> helloily
00:17:56 <quintopia> i get where emma watson was coming from there
00:18:26 <quintopia> adult Nala was pretty hot in that "can you feel the love tonight" scene
00:18:51 <boily> quinthellopia!
00:18:57 <boily> @ping
00:18:57 <lambdabot> pong
00:19:03 <quintopia> what do?
00:19:15 <boily> hmm... very laggy tonight.
00:19:24 <quintopia> why
00:20:35 <boily> no idea. generic connectivity uncoöperativeness...
00:20:35 <boily> @ping
00:20:36 <lambdabot> pong
00:20:56 <boily> 33 seconds.
00:21:16 <boily> meanwhile, laundry, eating, random stuff...
00:21:27 <boily> how life on your end?
00:27:10 <quintopia> its a writing month
00:27:28 <quintopia> so im eating a sub and reading my novel
00:27:37 <quintopia> still havent done my taxes
00:32:27 * boily is proprocrastinating his taxes >_>'...
00:39:54 <shachaf> Oh, I should do my taxes.
00:44:49 <quintopia> yuuuuup
01:08:56 <shachaf> ybden: http://feelingmyage.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/periodictable.gif hth
01:13:22 <boily> helloochaf. there is something not quite right with that table...
01:22:10 <boily> `wisdom
01:22:11 <HackEgo> glitch//glitch? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
01:27:39 <shachaf> `forget glitch
01:27:41 <HackEgo> Forget what?
01:29:02 <boily> thachaf.
01:29:02 <boily> `wisdom
01:29:04 <HackEgo> sparta//WE. DON'T. KNOW. ANYTHING. ABOUT. SPARTA!
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01:37:24 <\oren\> `widsom
01:37:25 <HackEgo> trantor//Coruscant is a planet covered entirely by a city. It is the capital of the Galactic Empire, and the home for the biggest library in it.
01:37:44 <\oren\> `widsom
01:37:46 <HackEgo> fourth wisdom//.wisdoms other the all upon builds wisdom fourth The
01:38:03 <\oren\> `widsom
01:38:05 <HackEgo> ​`1//`1 <cmd> is equivalent to `` <cmd>, except that it splits the output into irc-sized pieces. The next pieces can be viewed with `spam. See also `2.
01:38:19 <\oren\> `widsom
01:38:20 <HackEgo> typoglycerine//Typoglycerine is an explosive that scrambles the letters inside a word.
01:38:22 <\oren\> `widsom
01:38:24 <HackEgo> thanks ants//thants
01:38:42 * Zarutian had not heard of typoglycerine.
01:52:39 <Sgeo> `? typescript
01:52:40 <HackEgo> typescript? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
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05:22:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51639&oldid=51568 * Btzy * (+7) /* Optimizing implementations */
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05:55:28 <shachaf> `grwp hth
05:55:35 <shachaf> `grwp h\(th\)
05:55:47 <HackEgo> ​🐚:(1+sqrt(5))/2 hth \ but:But is an hth derivative. \ chthonic:Chthonic lithping can be vethy dithturbing to lithten to. \ hambiguitous:We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth. \ hðh:hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. \ helloily:helloily is
05:55:47 <HackEgo> ​🐚:(1+sqrt(5))/2 hth \ but:But is an hth derivative. \ chthonic:Chthonic lithping can be vethy dithturbing to lithten to. \ hambiguitous:We're not sure what hambiguitous means, but it's definitely not hth. \ hðh:hðh is how hppavilion[n] decides to sæ 'hth' when e's beiŋ annoyiŋ. At least, in a subset of ðose times. \ helloily:helloily is
05:55:55 <shachaf> `grwp h(th)
05:55:57 <HackEgo> associativity:Associativity means that h(th) = (ht)h, if you're flexible about it.
05:56:08 <shachaf> Oh, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible_algebra
05:56:15 <shachaf> I'm not sure whether I understood it before?
05:56:17 <shachaf> Maybe I did.
06:09:10 <izabera> is north korea actually thinking they could win a nuclear war against america?
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06:48:13 <Hoolootwo> it could possibly cripple the US with an EMP pulse
06:48:29 <Hoolootwo> we can't do the same to them because they don't have much technology to lose
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07:35:47 <hppavilion[1]> Hm, does Solfège cover sharps?
07:35:54 <hppavilion[1]> (or accidentals in general)
07:38:22 <pikhq> Yes.
07:39:56 <pikhq> Do di ra re ri me mi fa fi se sol si le la li te ti. There's the sequence of half steps.
07:40:56 <Jafet> > length $ words "Do di ra re ri me mi fa fi se sol si le la li te ti"
07:40:58 <lambdabot> 17
07:41:32 <izabera> sol si le la?
07:41:38 <izabera> that can't be right, can it?
07:41:57 <pikhq> There's redundancy there.
07:42:05 <pikhq> Si and le are the same note.
07:42:14 <pikhq> (for instance)
07:42:30 <shachaf> Note names are such a mess.
07:42:32 <izabera> in italian the 7 normal notes are do re mi fa sol la si
07:42:42 <izabera> and you put si between sol and la
07:42:45 <shachaf> And so are piano keyboards.
07:43:01 <shachaf> Diatonic scale? More like diatonic scow.
07:43:12 <pikhq> The English solfege is "do re mi fa sol la ti".
07:43:13 <shachaf> s/D/d/ s/M/m/ s/.$//
07:43:28 <izabera> i see
07:43:33 <pikhq> Also, the English system is a relative, not fixed, system.
07:43:49 <hppavilion[1]> izabera: I once invented a Zeno-y notation for crazy accidentals
07:44:07 <pikhq> i.e. all the names are *in relation* to an arbitrary "do".
07:44:20 <hppavilion[1]> The first accidental affects your pitch by 1/2 tone (a semitone)
07:44:30 <hppavilion[1]> The second affects it by 1/4, the third by 1/8, and so on
07:44:34 <shachaf> Oh, that's good, at least.
07:44:48 <pikhq> Apparently in the Romance systems, the solfege thing is *actually the note names*.
07:44:50 <shachaf> But there's no da?
07:45:13 <pikhq> i.e. "do" is C, unconditionally, there.
07:45:15 <hppavilion[1]> Though in retrospect, maybe trientones would be more interesting
07:45:22 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: da
07:45:28 <pikhq> shachaf: Not generally, no.
07:45:34 <hppavilion[1]> </super-funny-language-joke ref="ru">
07:46:15 <shachaf> `metar denver
07:46:16 <HackEgo> lambdabot: @metar ?
07:46:19 <shachaf> Hm.
07:46:26 <shachaf> @metar KDEN
07:46:26 <lambdabot> KDEN 050553Z 33008KT 10SM BKN060 01/M02 A3017 RMK AO2 SLP222 60004 T00061022 10039 20000 51013 $
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10:43:53 <ybden> shachaf: shelloachaf
10:43:58 <ybden> shachaf: I approve of this table.
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11:48:38 <boily> test
11:48:41 <boily> @ping
11:48:41 <lambdabot> pong
11:48:52 <boily> aaaah, finally internet!
11:49:00 <b_jonas> helloily
11:49:06 <boily> b_jellonas!
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15:12:34 <b_jonas> `random-card valkyrie
15:12:36 <HackEgo> Adarkar Valkyrie \ 4WW \ Snow Creature -- Angel \ 4/5 \ Flying, vigilance \ {T}: When target creature other than Adarkar Valkyrie dies this turn, return that card to the battlefield under your control. \ CSP-R, MMA-R, C14-R
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17:04:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Aceto]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51640 * L3viathan * (+1145) Created page with "'''Aceto''' is an [[esoteric programming language]] made by [[User:L3viathan|L3viathan]], designed according to the wishes of [https://twitter.com/sarnthil @sarnthil]. The nam..."
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19:10:51 <rdococ> ...
19:12:07 <shachaf> rdococ: I recommend taking int-e's advice.
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19:27:27 <moony> `relcome zsoc
19:27:31 <HackEgo> zsoc: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
19:27:33 <moony> `help
19:27:33 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
19:27:45 <moony> :P
19:28:10 <zsoc> relcome?
19:28:15 <zsoc> s/relcome/welcome/
19:28:16 <zsoc> :p
19:28:18 <moony> Just a rainbow welcome command :P
19:28:33 <zsoc> I was just testing if a bot would pick up my sed, i'm sad now
19:28:38 <moony> lol
19:28:42 <moony> `sed
19:28:42 <HackEgo> Usage: /bin/sed [OPTION]... {script-only-if-no-other-script} [input-file]... \ \ -n, --quiet, --silent \ suppress automatic printing of pattern space \ -e script, --expression=script \ add the script to the commands to be executed \ -f script-file, --file=script-file \ add the contents of sc
19:28:44 <moony> it has it installed
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19:29:56 <rdococ> hipav
19:29:59 <shachaf> so much bot spam
19:30:02 <moony> hellopvilion
19:30:13 <moony> shachaf, Sorry. Was just showing him what hackego does
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19:38:45 <rdococ> Wylkum, Herbstkind.
19:39:02 <Herbstkind> Thx, rdococ
19:40:07 <rdococ> Pronounce it /wylkum/.
19:40:19 <rdococ> It's a word in my new language, it means "Welcome".
19:41:32 <moony> lol
19:41:33 <Herbstkind> so so
19:41:35 * Herbstkind nods
19:41:51 <Herbstkind> And what is that language called?
19:44:23 <rdococ> Haven't come up with a name yet.
19:44:35 <rdococ> It will have /c/, /y/ and /ɥ/.
19:45:32 <zsoc> is this worldbuilding? :3
19:45:54 <Herbstkind> uhuh
19:45:55 <rdococ> nah, just the language
19:46:05 <rdococ> I need a name for it.
19:46:07 <Herbstkind> Any specialization for the language? ^^
19:46:17 <rdococ> whadya mean?
19:46:31 <Herbstkind> Are you constructing it with a special purpose in mind?
19:46:36 <rdococ> not really
19:47:19 <Herbstkind> so just for the heck of it
19:47:43 <rdococ> ye
19:49:26 <moony> zsoc, Welcome to #esoteric, where you never know what the next topic will be unless you are the one starting it
19:49:33 <moony> Sometimes not even then
19:51:48 <rdococ> lol
19:53:21 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlp58qAOjRU
19:56:56 <rdococ> <Herbstkindem Mi wylkum>, <Mi Herbstkindem wylkum> or <Mi wylkum Herbstkindem> are sufficient to say "I welcomed Herbstkind"
19:57:24 <rdococ> The -em means that the noun is the object of the sentence.
19:58:23 * Herbstkind nods veeery slowly
19:58:25 <Herbstkind> I seeeeeee
19:58:47 <Herbstkind> So what would "rdococ welcomes Herbstkind." mean?
19:59:22 <rdococ> ?
19:59:28 <rdococ> oh, tense?
19:59:31 <Herbstkind> no
19:59:52 <Herbstkind> As if when someone states that you're welcoming me. They would say "rdococ welcomes Herbstkind".
19:59:59 <rdococ> yes
20:00:09 <rdococ> <Herbstkindem rdococ wylkum>
20:00:15 <Herbstkind> pff okay ^^
20:00:28 <Herbstkind> Also who or what do you intend to program with that language :P
20:00:46 <rdococ> ha ha
20:01:24 <Herbstkind> *whom (?) :I
20:02:13 <rdococ> <Herbstkindem Mi wylkum pas> for past, or <Herbstkindem Mi wylkum fytur> for the future (atm)
20:02:30 <Herbstkind> that's lame xD
20:02:57 <rdococ> Many other languages had some variation of <past> and <future> in their language, so it's not that lame
20:03:10 <Herbstkind> What does "I will have welcome Herbstkind" mean?
20:03:13 <rdococ> <futur>, <passe>
20:03:23 <rdococ> idk for sure yet
20:03:23 <rdococ> gtg
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20:11:21 <hppavilion[1]> The music-geek equivalent of the Sad Trombone is the Sad Brass Section
20:11:55 <hppavilion[1]> Well, except when you're specifically a Rock Music Geek, in which case it's the Sad Seven-Nation Orchestra
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20:38:41 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Fourthdwarf * New user account
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21:03:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51641&oldid=51357 * Happa * (+131) Added link to NemFunge93 interpreter
21:03:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51642&oldid=51641 * Happa * (+11) Fixed link
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21:17:22 <hppavilion[1]> Hm. Nonprinciple of communication: If t is a subtopic of T and t is an inappropriate topic in a given circumstance, T is an inappropriate topic in the same circumstance.
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21:46:11 <Herbstkind> hppavilion[1], if that is valid in the other direction too ( inap(T) => inap(t) ) then everything is an inappropriate topic, I presume
21:46:42 <Herbstkind> Since anything is connected somehow ^^ (That's my Axiom)
21:47:29 <hppavilion[1]> Herbstkind: Yeah, that's why it's a nonprinciple
21:47:46 <Herbstkind> as in e. g. bestiality is a subtopic of animals which is a supertopic of plushies or something *shrug*
21:47:49 <Herbstkind> I seeeeeeeeeee
21:48:15 <Herbstkind> (okay, really bad example)
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22:12:05 <fizzie> There's this artwork near King's Cross, https://www.kingscross.co.uk/ifo
22:12:08 <fizzie> This evening on my commute there was a guy next to it with a megaphone, reading some sort of pseudo-poetry about a bird that's too scared of freedom.
22:12:52 <shachaf> What's the difference between poetry and pseudo-poetry?
22:13:45 <fizzie> I just mean I'm not sure if it counted as poetry (what's the definition?), but it was at least some sort of a spoken word thing.
22:13:57 <shachaf> @wn poetry
22:13:58 <lambdabot> *** "poetry" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
22:13:58 <lambdabot> poetry
22:13:58 <lambdabot> n 1: literature in metrical form [syn: {poetry}, {poesy},
22:13:58 <lambdabot> {verse}]
22:13:58 <lambdabot> 2: any communication resembling poetry in beauty or the
22:14:00 <lambdabot> evocation of feeling
22:14:20 <fizzie> Well, it wasn't sense 1, might've been sense 2.
22:14:29 <shachaf> 2 is a recursive definition.
22:14:32 <fizzie> Or if it was metrical, it was too subtle for me.
22:14:33 <shachaf> Presumably 1 is the base case.
22:15:16 <fizzie> Here's the part that I heard. Approximately, at least.
22:15:18 <fizzie> "Someone left the cage open, but it doesn't matter. The bird won't fly out of the cage. It's too scared... of freedom."
22:15:54 <shachaf> any communication resembling (any communication resembling (literature in metrical form) in beauty or the evocation of feeling) in beauty or the evocation of feeling
22:18:20 <shachaf> fizzie: The bird represents commuters.
22:18:32 <shachaf> Maybe you should fly out of the cage?
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22:24:07 <hppavilion[1]> ...
22:24:20 <hppavilion[1]> I just evaluated a function and got what appears to be ∞̃
22:25:24 <hppavilion[1]> (For those for whom combining diacritics or Unicode characters don't render, that's the infinity symbol (∞) with a tilde (~), as in the Spanish bonus letter ‹ñ›)
22:25:48 <hppavilion[1]> Apparently it means complex infinity??
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22:50:13 <DHeadshot> Is that INFi or INF+i?
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22:56:12 <boily> `wisdom
22:56:15 <HackEgo> action//An action should always have an equal and opposite reaction, whenever thausible.
22:56:47 <shachaf> `cwlprits action
22:56:57 <HackEgo> oerjän
22:57:13 <shachaf> oerjan: I thought "thausible" meant "thanks, plausible"?
22:57:22 <shachaf> no one tells me anything
22:57:24 <shachaf> `4 w
22:57:29 <HackEgo> 1/2:welcome.is//Halló og verið velkomin á hinn alþjóðlegann miðpunkt fyrir esoteríska forritunarmálshönnun og dreifingu. Meiri upplýsingar er hægt að nálgast á wikinu <http://esolangs.org/>. (Fyrir annarskonar esoterík prufið #esoteric á EFnet eða DALnet.) \ myndzi//myndzi used to keep us all on our feet. \ persistence/
22:57:32 <shachaf> `n
22:57:32 <HackEgo> 2/2:/Taneb invented persistence long ago, and it's been around ever since. \ northumberland//Northumberland may be today a sparsely populated country... but SOON! THE NORTHUMBRAINS SHALL RISE!
22:58:19 <boily> helloochaf!
22:58:24 <boily> `? thausible
22:58:25 <HackEgo> A thausible action is one committed toward a thausiblee.
22:58:30 <boily> `? thausiblee
22:58:31 <HackEgo> A thausiblee is the recipient of a thausible action.
22:58:43 <boily> cqfd.
23:00:11 <int-e> wzbw
23:00:26 <boily> int-ello. German version?
23:00:29 <int-e> yes.
23:00:34 <shachaf> מש"ל
23:01:01 <boily> HHIG
23:01:27 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
23:01:30 <shachaf> Higgins Hemb Insurance Group
23:01:34 <int-e> His Hero Is Gone was an influential American crust punk band from Memphis, Tennessee?!
23:01:58 <boily> Heute Habe Ich Gelernt
23:02:11 <int-e> oh damn
23:02:28 <boily> shachaf: " is for abbreviations, right?
23:02:36 <int-e> I had a theoretical chance of getting this, I suppose.
23:02:46 <shachaf> boily: For acronyms.
23:02:46 <int-e> In practice, not really.
23:02:55 <shachaf> And some other things.
23:02:58 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gershayim
23:03:23 <shachaf> If you want to be pedantic it's ״ rather than ".
23:03:26 <int-e> boily: w.z.b.w., like cqfd, is in actual use.
23:03:59 <shachaf> heute die welt, morgen das sonnensystem
23:04:02 <int-e> (interestingly I have not seen it without the dots)
23:04:29 <int-e> shachaf: that's a lot to eat.
23:05:07 <shachaf> ewige blumenkraft und ewige schlangenkraft
23:05:07 <int-e> `grwp pointless
23:05:43 <int-e> hist... hackego is slow today
23:05:47 <HackEgo> No output.
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23:05:54 <boily> hist?
23:05:56 <shachaf> `grwp pointless
23:06:03 <boily> `grwp pointless
23:06:12 <int-e> boily: look again
23:06:15 <HackEgo> pointfree:Pointfree programming sounds better than pointless programming.
23:06:15 <HackEgo> pointfree:Pointfree programming sounds better than pointless programming.
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23:17:39 <quintopia> helloily
23:19:03 <boily> quinthellopia
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23:37:23 <boily> thausiblellørjan.
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23:40:15 <quintopia> explox plox
23:40:18 <shachaf> ewige ørjankraft
23:41:51 <oerjan> shallochaf
23:42:29 <oerjan> evenily. thoily.
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23:59:04 <pikhq> *facepalm* Well, no wonder I get a few random Unicode bugs in my terminal.
23:59:18 <pikhq> screen doesn't use wcwidth, but rather its own function for character widths.
23:59:25 <pikhq> It disagrees with libc wcwidth.
23:59:58 <pikhq> http://sprunge.us/MQeB Nice little hack to tell if libc and your terminal agree on character widths.
2017-04-06
00:00:27 <shachaf> pikhq: Yes, it's a mess.
00:00:56 <pikhq> mosh *seems* to just defer to libc on that subject.
00:01:25 <shachaf> I'm using tmux and mosh and in the end things never work right.
00:01:35 <pikhq> I don't know if tmux does its own mess.
00:01:49 <pikhq> The above should help debug things.
00:02:04 <shachaf> I'm already pretty sure wcwidth is broken.
00:02:10 <quintopia> boily: do you have any fertility rites planned for the worship of the green goddess Eostre?
00:02:19 <shachaf> OK, I'll try it.
00:02:42 <pikhq> Problem is, wcwidth is what some popular programs and libraries like "curses" use for their notion of how many columns a given character takes.
00:03:01 <shachaf> Are you supposed to run thins 2>file?
00:03:03 <pikhq> Yes.
00:03:36 <pikhq> I did mention it was a tiny little hack. I was frankly just tinkering a tiny bit and wanted to talk about what I saw from it.
00:03:56 <pikhq> I'd also recommend against Ctrl-C'ing it, cause I've not made it robust enough to reset the terminal afterwards.
00:04:36 <shachaf> Would you looj at that, 171 broken code points.
00:05:12 <pikhq> tmux here appears to agree with glibc.
00:05:32 <hppavilion[1]> It's a good thing Hitler wasn't a mathematician.
00:05:36 <shachaf> Two are libc 1 tty 0, the rest are libc 0 tty 1
00:05:46 <shachaf> hppavilion[1]: Can you quit it with those jokes?
00:05:54 <shachaf> Just put them on a Twitter account and I won't follow it.
00:05:54 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I try ;-;
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00:06:31 <pikhq> So there's a few libc thinks are combining characters, and some the tty thinks are combining characters.
00:06:34 <pikhq> Huh.
00:06:56 <pikhq> As I understand it, Unicode *defines* this, too.
00:07:11 <Jafet> gtk has a is_valid_utf8 function, which forbids U+0000
00:08:28 <Jafet> because “all strings are nul-terminated”
00:08:48 <pikhq> Might be worth investigating to see which codepoints terminals even agree on.
00:15:13 <pikhq> Perhaps write something-or-other whereby programs would be able to test those codepoints in particular, and if they don't work, output U+FFFD instead.
00:15:20 <pikhq> (maybe as a patch to ncurses?)
00:16:55 <Jafet> terminal rendering is already unportable anyway, because of fullwidth characters
00:17:34 <pikhq> ?
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00:20:14 <shachaf> pikhq: I'm running this program in ssh instead of mosh-tmux, and it's very slow.
00:20:39 <shachaf> I started it 10 minutes ago and it's only 10% done.
00:21:01 <pikhq> It will be limited by the speed of the connection with its terminal.
00:21:10 <Jafet> actually it's even worse, there are “ambiguous-width” characters
00:21:23 <shachaf> Yes, I know.
00:21:31 <shachaf> But actually it'll be limited by my patience.
00:21:32 <pikhq> Note that it's sending escapes to the terminal requesting the cursor position and waiting for a response... On each and every codepoint.
00:22:01 <Jafet> and gnome-terminal, for instance, lets the user decide how wide they should be
00:22:07 <pikhq> Jafet: :(
00:22:08 <shachaf> There are many more "not okay" this way, even when I ^Ced it.
00:22:33 <pikhq> I might bother doing some research to figure out which codepoints are actually likely to vary and get it to test only those.
00:22:36 <Jafet> but I'm sure there are also fullwidth characters that are displayed as narrow in some terminals
00:23:15 <pikhq> That sorta bullcrap is *kinda* a problem given that most terminal programs have specific ideas about the terminal state...
00:23:23 <pikhq> And if they disagree, you have a freaking problem.
00:23:50 <Jafet> possibly the only good solution is to wmove() frequently
00:24:06 <Jafet> or to use gtk, if your strings don't contain U+0000
00:27:05 <boily> quintopia: if by fertility rite you mean consuming liberal amounts of eggs, yes ^^
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00:32:28 <boily> Eggs Blackstone are the bee's knees, the spider's shoulders, and the butterfly's thighs.
00:36:03 <quintopia> ...this is a thing i'm unaware of
00:36:31 <quintopia> i know more about the political structure of ancient egypt than i do about eggs blackstone
00:36:54 <boily> http://howtofeedaloon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/eggs-blackstone-1050x700.jpg
00:36:54 <quintopia> (i know the names of like three pharaohs and the science of mummification)
00:37:00 <boily> nice!
00:37:10 <boily> fungot: mummy?
00:37:11 <fungot> boily: something fun ( in fact, scheme48 init files bundled in slib. this would compromise my other criteria.
00:37:28 <boily> Eggs Blackstone are just like Benedict, but with bacon and grilled tomatoes.
00:43:16 <quintopia> oh
00:43:23 <quintopia> way to ruin a great dish
00:43:49 <quintopia> i'm not sure what you mean by "but with bacon" though
00:44:14 <quintopia> eggs benedict has bacon (that which we refer to as Canadian) by default...
00:49:30 <boily> it's more like ham, eh?
00:51:17 <quintopia> are you saying you substitute belly bacon?
00:53:14 <boily> yup ^^
00:57:29 <quintopia> well that doesnt sound terrible
00:57:38 <quintopia> as long as the hollandaise is dialed in
00:57:45 <quintopia> but tomato sounds horrible
00:58:36 <boily> hollandaise is an incontournable.
00:58:42 <boily> tomato is wonderful!
01:01:28 <boily> let's ask our resident vegexpert about tomatoes...
01:01:38 <boily> fungot: are tomatoes good?
01:01:38 <fungot> boily: why would you want to call
01:01:54 <boily> fungot: because it has to be known.
01:01:54 <fungot> boily: so you can show that automatically in the message
01:07:55 <quintopia> fungot: automatically message me your opinion on tomatoes
01:07:56 <fungot> quintopia: manipulating xml as sexps is easier and mroe powerful than php
01:08:06 <quintopia> that didnt help
01:08:12 <quintopia> ^style
01:08:12 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
01:08:25 <quintopia> ^style speeches
01:08:25 <fungot> Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg)
01:08:41 <quintopia> fungot: do you have anything to say about tomatoes now?
01:08:42 <fungot> quintopia: " not this way, and really it trimmed him as it would a tree. he had been some time a member who enters that service has to pursue the general happiness. if, therefore, with him, rather a weak constitution, and, adopting very nearly the sentiments of his people. he is writing four fnord volumes about me, i was going to be on the ground of a public direction by the power of trampling on their subjects, though history
01:09:11 <quintopia> exactly fungot. i agree. tomatoes are the worst.
01:09:11 <fungot> quintopia: but, as soon as he had observed with respect to nobility. why? because a representative system, which varied only in local and circumstantial fnord much less, that they may earn, their own bread. now it is dismal enough to be fnord
01:09:47 <quintopia> true, bread is much more representative
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01:10:09 <quintopia> helloony
01:10:11 <moonythedwarf> IT finally happened. someone made a brainfuck interpreter in The Powder Toy (see save 2122891 )
01:10:25 <quintopia> huh?
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01:11:06 <moonythedwarf> http://powdertoy.co.uk/Browse/View.html?ID=2122891
01:11:18 <moonythedwarf> its another computer in The Powder Toy, but this time brainfuck
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01:11:49 <boily> mhelloonythellodwarf.
01:11:56 <moonythedwarf> helloily
01:12:05 <boily> tomatoes are the best. bell peppers are also good.
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01:12:19 <moonythedwarf> Why has noone made a hello command for hackego yet? so i can automate my helloilys
01:13:58 <quintopia> there is no agreed-upon porthello for every situation
01:14:32 <quintopia> like, what's the best porthello for zarutian, for instance?
01:14:52 <Zarutian> ask boily
01:15:35 <quintopia> i just asked everyone
01:15:49 <quintopia> boily surely is allowed to make a suggestion :D
01:15:59 <moonythedwarf> zaruthian
01:16:10 <fizzie> There is a command, it's just very rudimentary.
01:16:12 <fizzie> `hi Zarutian
01:16:12 <HackEgo> Hi Zarutian. Harutian.
01:16:18 <moonythedwarf> lol
01:16:32 <fizzie> That may have been derived from `thanks.
01:16:35 <quintopia> probs
01:16:37 <boily> I usuall Zarutellon Zarutian.
01:16:58 <quintopia> hmm
01:17:22 <boily> hmm?
01:17:26 <quintopia> boily: i trust. write down a set of trustworthy substitution rules to produce optimal porthellos please
01:19:39 <boily> I latch upon the first available h, e, l, o. I check if it sounds right, along with morphological features. if it doesn't, I follow with the next available anchor.
01:19:58 <quintopia> and if none exist?
01:20:00 <boily> if it still doesn't work, I may try “hi” instead of “hello”.
01:20:28 <boily> if nothing works, chop off the first letter and “hi”. so far, only kmc reached this fallback.
01:20:36 <quintopia> "morphological features" is so nebulous. can you explain that in EBNF?
01:20:42 <boily> eeeeeh...
01:20:59 <boily> for example, \oren\ has he\\oren\ because backslashes.
01:21:32 <boily> b_jonas has b_jellonas and wob_jellonas, because jell-o.
01:22:06 <boily> and rdococ has rdochelloc because it sounds better.
01:22:40 <boily> (could've been rdellococ, but it isn't as good IMPO)
01:24:12 <quintopia> okay it's clear now
01:24:13 <boily> there may also be customary decorations and declensions, re hellørjan, helloochaf and Tanelle.
01:24:26 <boily> and you're QUINTHELLOPIAAAAAAAAAAA.
01:24:31 <quintopia> this is a task only manageable by high quality AI
01:24:39 <quintopia> machine learning stuff
01:24:40 <boily> or a sane person!
01:24:44 <quintopia> something that knows english
01:25:15 <quintopia> boily: i don't know where we'd find a sane person. but we might be able to write one from not-scratch
01:26:36 * boily fell into the trap headfirst
01:26:52 <boily> fungot: tell me I'm sane.
01:26:52 <fungot> boily: but i will struggle with my bursting heart, to portray that heroic spirit, which has sometimes seemed to foreign states to invite and provoke their aggressions, peace has been unbroken, their work has been excellent, and honourable man, with a single solitary exception, every one of which has much to fear from his loss than now they have, in certain indian transactions, fnord the worst of the caesars, gradually effacing
01:28:31 <kmc> hoily!
01:30:32 <boily> himc!
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02:48:37 <tsw_ett> I've been playing Thumper!
02:48:47 <tsw_ett> My left hand is pretty sore from all that thumping.
02:49:06 <tsw_ett> I've probably been thumping too hard, is all. I need to thump more gently.
02:49:22 <tsw_ett> I decided to try thumping with my other hand, and it went surprisingly well.
02:49:38 <tsw_ett> Maybe I'm actually a right-handed thumper and I've been thumping with the wrong hand this whole time.
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03:25:58 <shachaf> Is there a programming language that uses something like a call queue instead of a call stack?
03:28:25 <oerjan> . o O ( Fueue? )
03:33:31 <shachaf> I was thinking about depth-first and breadth-first search. Depth-first search is more natural to implement, but can you make an environment where breadth-first search is more natural?
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09:59:08 <fizzie> shachaf: There's a language literally called "Call Queue".
09:59:12 <fizzie> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Call_Queue
10:00:00 <fizzie> "Call Queue was inspired by the similarities between a queue-based algorithm implementing breadth-first search in a tree, and a stack-based algorithm emulating recursion."
10:01:48 <shachaf> fizzie: sgtm
10:02:03 <shachaf> Doesn't look very fleshed out.
10:02:34 <fizzie> Yes, it's a little unfinished.
10:03:25 <shachaf> I'm not sure whether the traditional function call syntax it uses is misleading or what it should be like.
10:04:04 <shachaf> Maybe you can make something with coroutines.
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11:28:31 <Jafet> you should generalise this to best-first search, then
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11:36:27 <Jafet> how about a message-passing computational model based on restaurants?
11:36:52 <Jafet> everyone sends messages at different volumes; if the total volume is too loud, the messages become garbled
11:57:22 <b_jonas> hello fungot
11:57:23 <fungot> b_jonas: the china trade. no voice, i guess, then, as it has been in literature. compare the members for the great remains of classical antiquity, which will be applied as long as the moral constitution of men's minds shall continue to infest the platform on these conditions--that there is nobody in the world that put its whole trust in god.
12:20:29 <boily> fungot: infesting platforms is generally frowned upon.
12:20:29 <fungot> boily: on monday, the twenty-seventh of february, 1832.) for my pillow, and a re-charter was granted by congress. that re-charter was laid before general jackson. it was inevitable that you would be an exception to it, but i remember one detail. all my life.
12:20:57 <boily> fungot: at least you got your dates right.
12:20:57 <fungot> boily: paraphrase of a passage in the review of jenyn's inquiry into the causes of wealthy zemindars, after residing at the courts of europe, and in great manufacturing towns, marriages are less prolific than in the substance, but regulating the mode and the principles on which they pronounce with so much profusion and so little discrimination, that they may be assured, that by keeping a vigilant eye on the fnord gentleman for
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17:49:00 <\oren\> there's no dot in Dr Pepper
17:54:15 <\oren\> meaning that it was the same price in the days of ocean liners as when the
17:54:19 <\oren\> Did you know, that Coca-Cola was 5 cents a bottle from 1886 to 1959?
17:54:31 <\oren\> ok wtf stupid copypaste
18:00:44 <int-e> https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2017-April/126716.html ... "more transparent", really...
18:01:37 <\oren\> Apparently the US senate are going nuclear! WE'RE DOOMED
18:01:46 <b_jonas> \oren\: what?
18:02:07 <\oren\> they are deploying the "nuclear option" to defeat a democratic filibuster
18:02:25 <\oren\> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/06/senate-republicans-tee-up-nuclear-showdown-on-gorsuch.html
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19:45:16 <pikhq> Which means that, essentially, the norms of the body are utterly dead.
19:46:18 <shachaf> p. scow
19:46:23 <int-e> unprecendented, hear, hear.
19:46:27 <int-e> -n
19:46:53 <pikhq> So, next time we've got a Democratic Pres and Senate, I'm hoping the GOP gets faced with how dumb that was.
19:47:11 <pikhq> Note for starters there's no cap on the number of sitting justices.
19:47:41 <shachaf> Didn't a Democratic senate already do a similar thing a few years ago?
19:47:53 <\oren\> “This is an extreme nominee from the far right who doesn’t believe in the fundamental vision of ‘We the People.“’
19:48:03 <pikhq> By a "few" you mean "nearly a century ago".
19:48:16 <\oren\> Is Grosuch really so bad?
19:48:28 <shachaf> I mean in 2013.
19:48:45 <int-e> I'm just trying to imagine the outcry if the Democrats had changed rules like this... or perhaps they did on less visible matters? I don't know.
19:48:50 <shachaf> Not for a Supreme Court nomination, though.
19:48:54 <pikhq> Oh.
19:49:02 <pikhq> shachaf: In 2013, they eliminated the nuclear option on other nominees.
19:49:06 <pikhq> Erm, the filibuster.
19:49:22 <pikhq> After the GOP doubled the number of nominee filibusters that have ever happened.
19:49:53 <pikhq> There have been about 160 nominees filibusters, of those, 80 were Obama's.
19:50:53 <pikhq> And we're talking some very uncontroversial nominees, too.
19:51:11 <\oren\> but is gorsuch really so bad, or are they just filibustering him because AAAA TRUMP AAAA
19:51:13 <pikhq> But the GOP was determined to make his Presidency the least successful one ever.
19:51:28 <pikhq> \oren\: The main justification is actually that Garland never got heard. Ever.
19:51:39 <pikhq> \oren\: But there are some really concerning things in his record as well...
19:51:51 <\oren\> so it has little to do with gorsuch himself?
19:52:50 <pikhq> Well, it's made *worse* by Gorsuch being a fairly right-wing nominee.
19:53:18 <pikhq> But, yes, the main thing turning it from "vote against" to "filibuster like your life depended on it" is Garland.
19:54:12 <pikhq> Opinion-wise, he's very nearly a Scalia clone.
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19:57:01 <\oren\> "On November 21, 2013, the Senate used the so-called "nuclear option", voting 52–48—with all Republicans and three Democrats voting against—to eliminate the use of the filibuster on executive branch nominees and judicial nominees, except to the Supreme Court."
19:57:33 <\oren\> So that's why the dems couldn't filibuster any of trump's other people
19:57:39 <pikhq> Yep.
19:58:24 <pikhq> Because after seeing the GOP filibuster nominee after nominee, they finally got rid of it, and the GOP for their part decided "fuck your opinions, we vote as a block".
19:58:36 <\oren\> so, when is the second american civil war scheduled?
19:58:55 <pikhq> About 1 hour after Trump's impeachment by a Democratic Congress.
19:59:03 <\oren\> cool
20:03:24 <fizzie> I think I heard them doing something slightly out of the ordinary re Lords and Brexit here as well.
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20:16:46 <hppavilion[1]> I have just ruler-and-compass constructed a square. I feel like it shouldn't be this complicated
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20:25:23 * hppavilion[1] . o O ( I feel like 270 degree angles should be square
20:26:28 <hppavilion[1]> )
20:31:01 <\oren\> wait, wy would it be hard to construct a square
20:31:09 <moonythedwarf> Technically they are the inverse of a 90 degree angle, but that suggusts we dont need 360 degrees to describe things, we only need 180..... *thinking*
20:31:57 <\oren\> first construct two perpendicular lines, then draw a circle around the intersection, then connect the places where the lines intersect the circle
20:35:33 <moonythedwarf> matching keyword /* linked */ equiv { } /* Voids its contents, 'ignored' by the parser */
20:35:37 <moonythedwarf> i have metalanguage ideas in mind
20:43:06 <moonythedwarf> ruled keyword // equiv { } linked rule { arg: *\n } // Also voids its contents, but has a regex match to boot.
20:43:32 <moonythedwarf> Figuring out how various ticks will work
20:43:36 <moonythedwarf> *tricks
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21:00:46 <shachaf> Ewige Muminkraft
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21:02:21 <hppavilion[1]> IMO, when translating a fictional or real brand name (or in general, any newly-invented word not derived from pure throwing-syllables-on-paper), the word should be translated by finding its source, translating those, then recombining
21:02:35 <shachaf> Or Ewige Snufkinkraft?
21:03:26 <hppavilion[1]> So Soylent Green is Sojalinse Grün- since "Soylent" is 'soya' (as in 'soy')+'lentil', I translated 'soy' and 'lentil' into German, mushed them together, and translated 'green' normally
21:03:50 <hppavilion[1]> (Of course, if it's a real company which has an official international variant, use that instead)
21:04:04 <hppavilion[1]> (Following this rule, Apple, inc. becomes Apfel, Inc.
21:04:07 <hppavilion[1]> )
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21:11:51 <pikhq> IMO, this depends on whether the brand name has much relevance to the story, or whether it's an opaque string.
21:12:12 <pikhq> Like, would the name itself confer meaning to the original audience.
21:12:36 <shachaf> What if the name involves an intricate and untranslateable pun?
21:12:44 <pikhq> I don't know.
21:13:17 <pikhq> But I will say e.g. Weyland-Yutani shouldn't have anything done to it, aside from maybe swapping the Romanization scheme used for the latter half.
21:14:21 <pikhq> (of course, there the meaning of the name is all to do with the nationality of the two surnames, so any sort of translation would change the meaning while leaving it alone, would not.)
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21:22:09 <\oren\> pikhq: ウェランド湯谷株式会社
21:22:32 <pikhq> That works.
21:22:57 <pikhq> That's also just the exact same name in Japanese, so hey. :)
21:26:03 <\oren\> There's also the Shinra Electric Power Company
21:28:07 <\oren\> where shinra wasn't translated into "god-cloth" or anything
21:28:24 <pikhq> That's a bit hard to translate.
21:29:07 <pikhq> I guess you could do "Theopani"?
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21:50:01 <\oren\> "The Daily Beast reported Thursday that Bannon had called Kushner a "cuck" behind his back."
21:50:14 <\oren\> WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
21:54:44 <hppavilion[1]> Hm.
21:57:47 <hppavilion[1]> There are mnemonics for remembering the planets- "My Very Excellent Mother Just Gave Us Nachos" (archaic: "My Very Excellent Mother Just Gave Us Nasty Pizza") or "Mary's Virgin Explanation Made Joseph Suspect Upstairs Neighbor) (xkcd)
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21:58:00 <hppavilion[1]> s/\) \(/" \(/
21:58:29 <hppavilion[1]> But I want one for remembering the dwarf AND normal planets
21:59:06 <Zarutian> add "Piano Charokee" to the xkcd one?
21:59:14 <Zarutian> s/add/append/
22:24:18 <\oren\> you also need Ceres
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22:27:18 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yeah
22:27:28 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: And Haumea and Makemake and Eris
22:27:34 -!- lynn_ has changed nick to lynn.
22:28:07 <hppavilion[1]> I wrote a bad one for fun: My Vampire Emu Might Consume Judgmentally-Stirred Udon Noodles with Pre-Crumbled Hot Macaroons, Eventually
22:29:09 <hppavilion[1]> (I'm particularly proud of using "Pre-Crumbled" for "Pluto and Ceres", since it binds them together; the only issue is that the 'C' should be disposable rather than the 'P')
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22:47:13 <\oren\> that's pluto and charon
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23:20:30 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Oh, yeah, Pluto and Charon.
23:21:01 * hppavilion[1] commits astronomy seppuku
23:21:14 <\oren\> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
23:21:23 <\oren\> because apparently, -D options in gcc invokation doesn't overpower #define
23:21:27 <\oren\> I have to add an #ifndef around the #define in question
23:21:27 <hppavilion[1]> (AKA reading his Horoscope)
23:21:42 <\oren\> well then, what I've been doing for the last few days is apparently useless
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23:30:41 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Were you reading your horoscope?
23:30:51 <hppavilion[1]> [and using it to determine which homeopathic remedy to pick?]
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23:52:08 <hppavilion[1]> My mother just encountered the word "Probabilistic" for the first time, apparently
23:52:51 <hppavilion[1]> She's reading a medical report (involved in some legal case) in silence and just said "Pro-buh-bull-ist-ic? Is that even a word?"
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2017-04-07
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00:34:58 <quintopia> :\
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01:25:43 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Crorem * New user account
01:30:30 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51643&oldid=51620 * Crorem * (+123)
01:30:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:SMA]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=51644 * Crorem * (+211) Created page with "Hi, I noticed that the link to the interpreter for [[BiTrax]] is dead. Is there any possibility that you could re-host it? Thanks! --~~~~"
01:33:21 <fizzie> That's a little optimistic.
01:35:50 <oerjan> well, it's not _much_ more than a year since User:SMA edited last.
01:36:01 <oerjan> oh wait, it's less.
01:36:10 * oerjan read May as March somehow.
01:38:40 <oerjan> that was an annoying hosting site. and robots.txt violated, so no chance of wayback.
01:39:28 <fizzie> "This file is no longer available because of a claim by system."
01:40:45 <oerjan> meh.
01:42:04 <fizzie> There was a rather odd search hit where the title of the page was "A source code is a bitmap, where each pixel defines a statement:" but then the contents included "Bitrix24 in the App Store" and a Britax baby stroller.
01:42:15 <fizzie> It looks like a website generated from an odd mishmash of things.
01:42:50 <fizzie> Things of somewhat similar lexicographic appearance.
01:45:20 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: i can construct a square in 12 steps, the three first being marking two arbitrary points and the line between them; are you doing it more complicated than that?
01:45:51 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: I... don't remember. I've deleted the construction because I didn't need it
01:46:07 <oerjan> OKAY
01:46:10 <hppavilion[1]> It involved finding a bunch of tangent lines on a circle
01:46:27 <oerjan> well you don't need that to construct a square.
01:46:48 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Yeah, but that was the only way I could think of
01:47:04 <hppavilion[1]> It was, like
01:48:27 <hppavilion[1]> A:point, B:point, l:line A B, f:circle A B, g:circle B A, C:intersect l g, and so on or something
01:48:32 <hppavilion[1]> I needed a LOT of circles
01:50:15 <oerjan> the first 5 steps are the same as mine.
01:50:40 <fizzie> 2 (points) + 1 (line) + 4 (for a perpendicular from first point) + 4 (for a perpendicular from the other point) + 1 (the one missing line) = 12 is what I got.
01:50:42 <oerjan> oh i guess you count finding intersections, i didn't do that.
01:51:05 <fizzie> Is this about that one game or just in general?
01:51:38 <oerjan> i don't know what hppavilion[1] is doing.
01:52:21 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: What game‽‽
01:52:33 <fizzie> There was that game about constructing things.
01:52:51 <fizzie> https://www.euclidea.xyz/
01:52:58 <fizzie> I think it was probably that.
01:53:30 <oerjan> not euclidthegame.com?
01:54:01 <fizzie> Yeah, in retrospect that looks more familiar.
01:54:01 <oerjan> which i just found again while trying to seach for an online geometry visualizer (and failing)
01:54:34 <fizzie> I guess euclidea.xyz could be someone's "let's cash in on the fad" thing.
01:54:46 <fizzie> Looks a little more polished maybe.
01:56:20 <fizzie> Like, you get pithy quotes at the end of a task and so on.
01:56:59 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: ok after what you said, D:intersect l f, h:circle C B, i:circle B C, E,F:intersect h i, m:line E F and that's your first perpendicular.
01:58:23 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Sounds about right, but I've yet to formally prove the correctness of the ad-hoc language :P
01:58:33 <hppavilion[1]> (skimming it suggests you're doing the same thing I did)
01:58:38 <hppavilion[1]> Damn squares are convoluted
01:59:59 <oerjan> okay
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02:13:52 <oerjan> hppavilion[1]: your translation talk in the logs made me suddenly realize that the translation of Einstein into a classical greek borrowing is Monolith
02:14:19 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: ...my god.
02:14:28 <hppavilion[1]> Or, uh, Mein Gott.
02:15:06 <hppavilion[1]> (Or Mein Gotten? Or maybe Mein Götter since polytheism?)
02:15:30 <oerjan> i don't think -en is a suffix used there
02:18:06 <oerjan> wiktionary lists no such word form, even for the archaic 16th-18th century forms.
02:18:50 <oerjan> it would be Meine Götter in the plural.
02:25:12 <fizzie> Misbe-gotten.
02:27:02 <oerjan> . o O ( newton <- new-town -> nea-polis -> naples )
02:29:10 <oerjan> darwin seems to have disputed etymology
02:31:25 <oerjan> although one of them could give Philophilos
02:31:42 <oerjan> (philos meaning both dear and friend in greek)
02:34:15 <oerjan> the other meaning could give Drys
02:35:17 <oerjan> or maybe Dryinos
02:35:40 <oerjan> which if so looks like it might be cognate
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02:36:54 <oerjan> `relcome crorem
02:37:01 <Crorem> Hi
02:37:11 <HackEgo> crorem: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
02:37:35 <oerjan> Crorem: i'm afraid User:SMA hasn't been seen in nearly a year
02:39:08 <oerjan> i don't remember if they ever came here on irc
02:40:16 <Crorem> That's a shame
02:40:51 <Crorem> Would you know anywhere where the BiTrax interpreter might be archived?
02:41:14 <oerjan> i checked wayback, but of course the site has a robots.txt :(
02:41:37 <oerjan> and fizzie googled some, i think
02:42:23 <oerjan> but he didn't seem to find anything relevant
02:43:44 <Crorem> Drat
02:43:48 <Crorem> Well, thanks for trying
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02:54:00 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: Oh, whoops, I meant to just say say "Mein Götter", but my syntax messed up when I changed plans
02:54:44 <hppavilion[1]> oerjan: But what about the unfortunate town of Dildo?
02:55:08 <oerjan> DUNNO
02:55:08 <shachaf> get your mind out of the götter
03:01:58 <oerjan> <hppavilion[1]> There are mnemonics for remembering the planets- "My Very Excellent Mother Just Gave Us Nachos" (archaic: "My Very Excellent Mother Just Gave Us Nasty Pizza") or "Mary's Virgin Explanation Made Joseph Suspect Upstairs Neighbor) (xkcd) <-- i think you mean "Served" or something hth
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03:02:40 <oerjan> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HE ESCAPED
03:13:46 <\oren\> the USA has hit a Syrian Air base in homs with 50 cruise missiles
03:13:50 <\oren\> esitmated to destroy at least a quarter of the Syrian Air Force
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04:23:55 <shachaf> `? i,i
04:23:56 <HackEgo> i,i is short for "I have wasps in my underwear, and I want to distract myself by saying".
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05:12:06 <\oren\> AAAAAA Idiots on CNN keep saying it's an "air strike"
05:12:08 <\oren\> those aren't the same unless you're Japanese
05:12:13 <\oren\> It's not it's a CRUISE MISSILE strike
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05:51:32 <Jafet> they're clearly ground strikes, anyway
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06:57:50 <shachaf> newsham: There's such a thing as a stovetop pizza oven?!
06:57:53 <shachaf> Is it any good?
07:02:17 <newsham> you're asking me?
07:02:24 <newsham> i havent heard of a stovetop pizza oven
07:04:24 <shachaf> But you're a pizza expert.
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07:35:20 <ais523> voxelperfect.net appears to have been taken over by domain parkers
07:35:28 <ais523> does anyone have a backup of the Esoteric Files Archive?
07:36:30 <hppavilion[1]> Is there an equivalent of the Vesica Piscis for ellipses?
07:38:33 <ais523> actually this may be worth putting in the topic, a lot of esolang content is hosted there
07:38:57 -!- ais523 has set topic: voxelperfect.net is parked; anyone have a backup of the Esoteric Files Archive? | News: New pyramid found in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
07:49:28 <ais523> it crosses my mind that graue may still be contactable and probably still has a copy, but it may be best to see if an actual regular has a copy, first
07:50:29 <shachaf> ais523: https://github.com/graue/esofiles hth
07:50:29 <int-e> hmm the (linode) server that went with it seems to be gone as well.
07:50:46 <ais523> oh good
07:50:52 <ais523> we should probably update links, in that case
07:51:07 <ais523> also, get a few clones of the repo going just in case Github gets parked too ;-)
07:51:33 -!- ais523 has set topic: News: New pyramid found in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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07:59:12 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: voxelperfect.net is parked; use github.com/graue/esofiles as a mirror | News: New pyramid found in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
07:59:26 -!- hppavilion[1] has set topic: voxelperfect.net is parked; use github.com/graue/esofiles | News: New pyramid found in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
08:08:19 <Jafet> the topic is mostly write-only
08:08:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:BackFlip]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51645&oldid=49072 * Ais523 * (+472) /* How to make infinite memory */ another, belated, idea
08:08:49 <Jafet> or write-mostly, or is it mostly right?
08:09:04 <shachaf> It seems to be left-mostly.
08:09:15 <shachaf> And rarely right.
08:10:39 <Jafet> well, only the rightmost parts are mostly left
08:11:37 <shachaf> The right part alone is mostly left alone.
08:21:47 * hppavilion[1] hands shachaf an MD
08:22:11 <ais523> perhaps we should try randomly reordering it and seeing if that changes the sort of edits we normally get?
08:22:34 <shachaf> Well, the logs and esolangs.org links are important.
08:22:47 <shachaf> Most of the rest is usually superfluous.
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08:32:43 <ais523> is wisdom.pdf meant to be a permanent feature? or not?
08:33:00 <shachaf> I don't know.
08:33:13 <shachaf> I don't like it. I don't think my wisdom should be recorded for eternity.
08:33:20 <shachaf> But others like i so who knows.
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08:44:10 <ais523> I don't really care for it being there permanently, although advertising it when it was made made sense
08:46:27 <shachaf> `le/rn esoteric files archive/The Esoteric Files Archive is now available at https://github.com/graue/esofiles
08:46:31 <HackEgo> Learned 'esoteric files archive/the esoteric files archive is now available at https:': github.com/graue/esofiles
08:47:14 -!- shachaf has set topic: http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | For bots, use #esoteric-blah.
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10:20:13 -!- int-e has set topic: News: New pyramid found in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
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11:39:25 <boily> `wisdom
11:39:26 <HackEgo> ​?//? is wisdom
11:39:43 <boily> yes, but what is wisdom?
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11:42:53 <FireFly> `? wisdom
11:42:54 <HackEgo> wisdom is always factually accurate, except for this entry, and, uh, that other one? It started with, like, an ø?
11:43:08 <FireFly> boily: always factually accurate (exceptions may apply)
11:43:28 <boily> FirelloFly. I trust the Wisdom.
11:44:13 <FireFly> bohily
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13:13:16 <b_jonas> heh heh. heard on ##workingset: "make is not a programming language in the sense that people write applications or OSes in it." Sounds like make is an esolang then.
13:13:25 <b_jonas> (In the sense that openttd signals are.)
13:39:52 <fizzie> Also sounds like a challenge.
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16:34:44 <hppavilion[1]> Do they make Fat Link Shorteners?
16:37:00 <rdococ> Fat Link Thinners*
16:37:40 <rdococ> and yes, it's called a font size menu
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16:37:53 <rdococ> works for both fat and long links
16:40:21 <rdococ> not broad ones tho :/
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18:11:40 <\oren\> I wonder if anyone has the phone number 5138008
18:12:56 <APic> Why?
18:13:16 <\oren\> if you have 5318008 on a calculator and you turn it upside down
18:13:26 <APic> lol, ok
18:23:20 <\oren\> hmm, make is turing complete when you inlcude its ability to run other programs, but what if make is executed in an environment with an innefectual version of sh?
18:24:52 <b_jonas> \oren\: gnu make or some other version of make?
18:25:17 <\oren\> gnu make would probably be the most likely to be turing complete...
18:26:37 <b_jonas> I think gnu make is probably turing complete. It has all sorts of crazy built-in functions, including text-manip stuff and an eval function. You can define variables.
18:26:51 <b_jonas> Has conditionals too.
18:27:33 <erkin> http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-make-2466.html
18:28:34 <b_jonas> You can access variables indirectly by name too.
18:37:41 <moony> \oren\, pls. y u do joke like dat
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19:08:03 <rdococ> hi
19:08:30 <rdococ> How about a program that searches for all possible combinations of numbers that yields letters, and returns the ones that are in dictionaries?
19:11:07 <shachaf> I already wrote such a program to look for a Google Voice number.
19:12:35 <FireFly> rdococ: wouldn't that just be grep(1)?
19:14:36 <rdococ> probablistic
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20:34:45 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI9hqvync5Y
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20:41:52 <hppavilion[1]> They're talking about Emmental in class.
20:44:40 <fizzie> Speaking for searching a dictionary.
20:44:42 <fizzie> `` grep -E '^a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?$' share/dict-words | perl -pe 'print length($_), " ";' | sort -nr | head -n 20 | cut -d ' ' -f 2
20:44:43 <HackEgo> loquacity \ imprudent \ certainty \ mortuary \ invaders \ impudent \ hostelry \ horsefly \ hindmost \ foremost \ envelops \ eloquent \ develops \ degrades \ deforest \ definers \ corsairs \ citadels \ chowders \ chivalry
20:45:10 <fizzie> That's the regex for nethack inventory letter words.
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20:47:01 <shachaf> fizzie: What about uppercase?
20:47:59 <fizzie> If you mean uppercase in input, in my 'words' those are boringly names. If you mean uppercasing the first half in the output, that's left as an exercise.
20:48:20 <shachaf> Oh, wait, you did include the alphabet twice.
20:48:29 <fizzie> Or is it the second half. I forget. Anyway.
20:48:33 <shachaf> OK then.
20:49:22 <shachaf> `dowg bin/sort-by-lengths
20:49:36 <HackEgo> No output.
20:49:54 <shachaf> `dowg bin/sort-by-lengths
20:50:00 <shachaf> `cat bin/sort-by-lengths
20:50:01 <HackEgo> awk '{print length"\t"$0}' | sort -n | cut -f2-
20:50:02 <HackEgo> No output.
20:50:05 <fizzie> 'w'?
20:50:07 <shachaf> Oh, right, doag
20:50:11 <shachaf> `doag bin/sort-by-lengths
20:50:18 <HackEgo> 9746:2016-11-20 <shachäf> mkx bin/sort-by-lengths//awk \'{print length"\\t"$0}\' | sort -n | cut -f2-
20:50:21 <shachaf> fizzie: I thought it was a pretty wise move to put it there.
20:51:55 <shachaf> `` abc='a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?'; grep -E "^$abc$abc$" share/dict-words | sort-by-length | tac | head -n20
20:51:56 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: sort-by-length: command not found
20:51:59 <shachaf> `` abc='a?b?c?d?e?f?g?h?i?j?k?l?m?n?o?p?q?r?s?t?u?v?w?x?y?z?'; grep -E "^$abc$abc$" share/dict-words | sort-by-lengths | tac | head -n20
20:52:00 <HackEgo> loquacity \ imprudent \ certainty \ mortuary \ invaders \ impudent \ hostelry \ horsefly \ hindmost \ foremost \ envelops \ eloquent \ develops \ degrades \ deforest \ definers \ corsairs \ citadels \ chowders \ chivalry
20:53:13 <shachaf> `` abc=$(echo abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz | sed 's/./&?/g'); grep -E "^$abc$abc$" share/dict-words | sort-by-lengths | tac | head -n20
20:53:14 <HackEgo> loquacity \ imprudent \ certainty \ mortuary \ invaders \ impudent \ hostelry \ horsefly \ hindmost \ foremost \ envelops \ eloquent \ develops \ degrades \ deforest \ definers \ corsairs \ citadels \ chowders \ chivalry
20:53:31 <shachaf> `` abc=$(echo abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz | sed 's/./&?/g'); grep -E "^$abc$abc$" share/dict-words | sort-by-lengths | tac | head -n30 | xargs
20:53:32 <HackEgo> loquacity imprudent certainty mortuary invaders impudent hostelry horsefly hindmost foremost envelops eloquent develops degrades deforest definers corsairs citadels chowders chivalry belabors airships adorably adjacent adequacy acquaint acerbity abstains thirsty tailors
20:53:42 <fizzie> Thirsty tailors.
20:53:50 <rdococ> Hungry sailors.
20:54:47 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
20:55:32 <shachaf> It's amazing that sort by length isn't a thing you can easily do, isn't it?
20:55:53 <shachaf> What a mess.
21:00:17 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
21:16:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:21:37 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
21:23:50 <zzo38> I had the idea "HTTP Directory Listing", which has the format of a list of key:value pairs with blank lines between records, and with the MIME type "application/directory-listing" perhaps. That is the main problem with HTTP, so the implementation of this idea would fix that problem.
21:23:58 <zzo38> ?messages-loud
21:23:58 <lambdabot> shachaf asked 3d 20h 56m 51s ago: Do you like this?
21:23:58 <lambdabot> shachaf said 3d 17h 1m 16s ago: By "this" I meant System F. Hope that helps.
21:26:17 <int-e> `` < /usr/share/dict/words awk '{print length($1)"\t"$1}' | sort -rn | cut -f2- | head -n10 | xargs
21:26:18 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: /usr/share/dict/words: No such file or directory
21:26:28 <int-e> `` < share/dict-words awk '{print length($1)"\t"$1}' | sort -rn | cut -f2- | head -n10 | xargs
21:26:29 <HackEgo> xargs: unmatched single quote; by default quotes are special to xargs unless you use the -0 option
21:26:34 <int-e> mm
21:29:07 <int-e> `` < share/dict-words awk '{print length($1)"\t"$1}' | sort -rn | cut -f2- | head -n10 | tr \\n \
21:29:08 <HackEgo> electroencephalograph's electroencephalographs electroencephalogram's counterrevolutionary's counterrevolutionaries Andrianampoinimerina's electroencephalograph electroencephalograms counterintelligence's uncharacteristically
21:29:57 -!- moony has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:30:35 <int-e> hah. I didn't look at the code above... funny it should be the same... minus one unintended bug.
21:31:39 <int-e> (namely, using $1 instead of $0)
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21:37:20 <hppavilion[1]> Particle Physics is all about seeing small numbers as huge; math is all about seeing infinitely large numbers as quaint.
21:40:16 <rdococ> lol
21:42:00 <zzo38> QuickBASIC does not allow a RETURN command inside of a SUB/FUNCTION to specify the label to return to.
21:42:22 <zzo38> I think it ought to be allowed (only if returning to another label in the same subroutine though)
21:52:17 <rdococ> I had the idea of implementing GOTOs by allowing the instruction pointer to be read and written like a variable
22:09:54 <\oren\> rdococ: that doesn't tend to work well unless you have labels as constant variables
22:11:51 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:25:41 <rdococ> that was the approach I was taking
22:27:13 <Jafet> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | sort-by-length
22:27:13 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/`: line 4: sort-by-length: command not found
22:27:19 <Jafet> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | sort-by-lengths
22:27:19 <HackEgo> long \ 缩短
22:27:40 <Jafet> `` locale
22:27:41 <HackEgo> LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ
22:29:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
22:29:33 -!- `^_^v has joined.
22:29:35 <Jafet> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | awk 'print length;'
22:29:36 <HackEgo> awk: line 1: syntax error at or near print
22:29:41 <Jafet> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | awk '{print length;}'
22:29:42 <HackEgo> 6 \ 4
22:29:57 <Jafet> it's amazing that sort by length isn't a thing you can easily do
22:34:07 <\oren\> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | perl -ne 'print length $_;'
22:34:08 <HackEgo> 75
22:34:15 <\oren\> WTF
22:34:24 <\oren\> oh, newlines
22:34:25 -!- `^_^v has quit (Client Quit).
22:34:33 <\oren\> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | perl -ne 'chomp;print length $_;'
22:34:34 <HackEgo> 64
22:35:17 <\oren\> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | perl -ne 'use utf8;chomp;print length $_;'
22:35:18 <HackEgo> 64
22:36:04 <\oren\> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | perl -Cne 'chomp;print length $_;'
22:36:05 <HackEgo> Unknown Unicode option letter 'n'.
22:36:12 <\oren\> `` (echo 缩短; echo long) | perl -C -ne 'chomp;print length $_;'
22:36:12 <HackEgo> 24
22:36:16 <\oren\> there
22:38:27 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
22:39:00 <\oren\> does awk have a unicode option
22:39:04 <Jafet> rdococ: ARM32 allows accessing the IP as r15; writing to it results in jumps
22:41:39 <\oren\> what if you increment it?
22:42:08 <shachaf> Jafet: To sort by length accurately you need to know what font you're using.
22:42:43 <\oren\> shachaf: or demand the user use a CJKwidth-correct font
22:43:02 <shachaf> Anyway sort-by-length operates on bytes, not characters.
22:43:50 <Jafet> unfortunately, people probably use different fonts
22:43:56 <Jafet> (and different terminals)
22:44:19 <shachaf> Terminals are unique up to isomorphism.
22:45:04 <Jafet> so are initials, apparently
22:45:29 <Jafet> I suppose that's why there is only one xinit and one xterm
22:45:56 <\oren\> cjkwidth-correct fonts at least guarantee that a cjk character is twice the width of a latin character. the standards are iffy on emoji, brahmic and arabic thoough
22:46:01 <int-e> looking at my screen there are many xterms
22:46:13 <shachaf> But they're all xisomorphic.
22:46:48 <rdococ> adsf
22:47:05 <\oren\> gjhk
22:47:18 <rdococ> ugh
22:47:20 <rdococ> I need inspiration
22:47:31 <shachaf> You should take inspiration from int-e.
22:47:39 <rdococ> int-e, inspiration please
22:47:45 <int-e> Waaaaaaah, I needed that.
22:48:11 <shachaf> I meant the thing where int-e talked about the kinds of things you say in this channel.
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22:55:12 <rdococ> ...
22:57:19 <int-e> Has anyone ever written a book on how to be uncreative, I wonder.
22:57:37 <shachaf> contrapumpkin: yontrapumpkin
22:59:16 * rdococ sad
22:59:58 <\oren\> int-e: perhaps "Design Patterns"?
23:00:38 <int-e> \oren\: oh that's better than the direction I was heading (something about accounting)
23:02:36 <Jafet> by the gang of forced analogies
23:03:11 -!- hppavilion[1] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
23:03:19 <rdococ> Sorry for being uncreative. it's just that my creativity is sapped every day by something called school.
23:03:34 <rdococ> I try my best to fight it, but I guess I'm just meant to be an Average Joe.
23:04:10 <\oren\> rdococ: what kind of school?
23:04:50 <rdococ> A school purported to be for "special" kids, despite the fact that they're no different.
23:10:47 <Zarutian> how is it sapping your creativity?
23:11:22 * Zarutian is genuinly curious to know what can be done better with education.
23:13:02 <\oren\> I was in the "gifted" program until I realized they were just giving us twice as much work and quit it
23:13:35 <rdococ> Zarutian, a lot.
23:13:53 <rdococ> Zarutian, I can tell you, what we have right now that passes for "education" in today's world, is horse manure.
23:14:20 <Zarutian> oren: mostly busywork, yes?
23:14:22 <rdococ> I could be curing cancer with doodles, and the teacher would probably still tell me to do my work.
23:14:43 <Zarutian> rdococ: you mean 'show your work' kind of work?
23:14:56 <rdococ> Whadya mean?
23:15:19 <Zarutian> like in maths. You show every step of the way.
23:15:41 <rdococ> I dislike worksheets that tell me to "show my workings out" even more than I do regular worksheets. What if my mind performs it for me automatically in an efficient manner? Should I draw a picture of a brain?
23:16:15 <Zarutian> or you talking about 'this homework which is impossibly boring and uses stuff that I havent covered yet is due tomorrow', kind of stuff?
23:16:48 <rdococ> Nah. I just plainly refuse and forget about any homework I receive, but I am worried for other students in other schools too.
23:17:54 <\oren\> I think they should increase career oriented focus in high school
23:18:12 <Zarutian> I once got a math teacher two insisted on 'show my workings out', he quit it when he got back a worksheet from me that showed each microstep in excrusiating detail.
23:18:25 <rdococ> Lol :P
23:19:04 <Zarutian> \oren\: perhaps this is a cultural misunderstanding, high school being ages 12-16 years?
23:19:59 <rdococ> But seriously, children are humans - just like adults, and they should be given choices. Many counters I've heard from staff are "What if you get a job and you're told to do something you don't want to do?" My response is always "You get paid for a job, and you signed up for it." Of course, they never respond to that, because they know I'm right.
23:20:02 <Zarutian> elementary school here goes from 5 or 6 to 16 years. There is no high school here.
23:20:12 <\oren\> In Canada: grade 1-6 -> pirmary school, 7+8 : middle school. 9-12 :high school
23:20:16 <Phantom_Hoover> <rdococ> I dislike worksheets that tell me to "show my workings out" even more than I do regular worksheets. What if my mind performs it for me automatically in an efficient manner? Should I draw a picture of a brain?
23:20:42 <Phantom_Hoover> explaining your answers is at least as if not more important than producing correct answers
23:21:04 <rdococ> And why is that?
23:21:25 <rdococ> Also, it has nothing to do with the ratio of good education to horse manure in current "education".
23:21:32 <Phantom_Hoover> because, in general, why would anyone believe the automatic processes of your brain
23:21:39 <Zarutian> rdococ: my response to these kind of 'reasoning' by teachers is: sure I will do it but it better have utility, something that your busywork does not.
23:21:44 -!- boily has joined.
23:22:21 <rdococ> Zarutian: I have previously mentioned a variant of that.
23:22:25 <rdococ> s/mentioned/used
23:22:28 <\oren\> anyway, I think they need to start having streams toward different career categories starting at age 14 at the latest
23:22:59 <rdococ> Scrap that, school is a prison and it needs to be abolished if we want our species to have a future.
23:23:06 <boily> rdochelloc, he\\oren\, Zarutellon.
23:23:27 <Zarutian> also, I knew quite a lot of people that did not leave the school building until the 'homework' was done. Why? Because work is at work and school stuff is no different. If you do not learn this early you will have life-work balance issues.
23:23:40 <boily> school needs to be revised, but kept. it is essential.
23:23:49 <rdococ> Essential to what? Horse manure?
23:24:04 <Zarutian> boily: indeed. But there are pedalogics that defy logics
23:24:15 <\oren\> rdococ: essential to acquiring the skills to earn money
23:24:38 <\oren\> something which even universities aren't focused on these days
23:24:46 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ are you presently in school
23:24:51 <\oren\> that's the core of the problem
23:25:03 <rdococ> \oren\: Depends what you consider under the term "school". Would a learning environment that's not comparable to manure be considered school?
23:25:11 <\oren\> yes
23:25:23 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Are you going to shun me when I reveal that I am presently in school, simply because I am a "student"?
23:25:24 <Zarutian> never understood why univeristies and such are meant to be training camps for employers.
23:25:48 <\oren\> Zarutian: becasue they cost so much
23:25:59 <rdococ> Oh, and it's not just school I have a problem with.
23:26:25 <\oren\> if universities are not teaching how to earn money, then they are a waste of time and a waste of enormous aamounts of money
23:26:26 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, well i mean school can be stressful and shitty for various reasons which can lead one to indulge in fantasies of radical educational reform
23:26:37 <Zarutian> oren: the camps? or the univeristies? Srue the price has gone up but then the overhead has too afaisi.
23:26:44 <rdococ> s/can be/inevitably is
23:27:11 <rdococ> I have a problem with some of the most common parenting practices too.
23:27:34 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm sure you do
23:27:44 <Zarutian> talking about schools. The whole concept of grading is crappy but especially how USA implement it.
23:27:45 <rdococ> Time-outs for doing "naughty" things can fuck right off, because children act to achieve their urgent needs.
23:27:51 <rdococ> Urgent needs for love and care.
23:28:11 <rdococ> And it's the parent's fault if the child has to act "naughty" to get attention.
23:28:17 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: I advocate radical education reform and I became a fully-fledged adult with a well paying job more than a year ago
23:28:20 <Zarutian> I have gone back with papers that just got an grade and nothing else from the teacher.
23:28:34 <rdococ> Well, they may be under a lot of stress; work could be to blame too.
23:28:50 <\oren\> however, the problem is that up until university, virtually nothing I was taught I actually use in my present job
23:28:53 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, i have nothing against radical education reform in general but in this case it just reads as venting personal stress
23:29:23 <Phantom_Hoover> i honestly find the idea that education should be whittled down to totally utilitarian job preparation to be completely abhorrent
23:29:36 <Zarutian> oren: oh, you use what the British called the three Rs, every day do you not? (Reading, wRiting and aRithmatic)
23:29:51 <rdococ> What's wrong with venting personal stress?
23:30:09 <\oren\> I wasn't taught those in school. My parent's taught them to me before I entered kindergarten
23:30:11 <rdococ> Zarutian: Reading can often be learnt at home with these things you can get from shops and libraries called "books".
23:30:19 <Phantom_Hoover> a common line in this vein is "school never taught me to file my taxes or write a monthly budget!"
23:30:52 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: well, why not? isn't that a useful thing that could be included?
23:31:12 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: nor did the schools even teach how to even get information about that kind of stuff. We Icelanders have an class for that kind of stuff, it is called 'Lífsleikni'.
23:31:46 <Phantom_Hoover> well apparently it doesn't work! students just don't give a shit about being taught very specific procedures that they don't actually need to perform yet
23:32:01 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Students don't give a shit about things they're forced into doing.
23:32:09 <rdococ> And no wonder.
23:32:26 <Phantom_Hoover> jesus christ rdococ how much educational psychology research have you done
23:32:28 <Phantom_Hoover> how much have you read
23:32:33 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: ?
23:32:42 <Phantom_Hoover> and how much are you drawing your opinions from "they made me do this at school and it pissed me off"
23:32:53 <rdococ> ...
23:33:07 <rdococ> They force students to do a lot of things. Namely lessons many of them are probably not interested in.
23:33:08 <\oren\> rdococ: hence why I advocate having different streams starting at an early age. kids who like math can go into the math stream and not bother with essays for example
23:33:09 <Phantom_Hoover> b/c my current evaluation is that all your strongly-proclaimed views on How Education Should Be Done derive entirely from the latter
23:33:31 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: My opinions are drawn from "CHILDREN ARE HUMANS".
23:33:41 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: to answer your question even though it was not aimed at me: I have done something strange, I have looked into the methadologies of some educational psychology research and frankly found it rather wanting.
23:34:00 <Zarutian> s/found it/found them/
23:34:13 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, lol
23:34:38 <Phantom_Hoover> i didn't realise that you had a total and infallible model of human nature worked out
23:34:48 <rdococ> ???
23:34:59 <rdococ> What on earth are you talking about?
23:35:15 <Phantom_Hoover> you apparently know exactly what should and shouldn't be done in education
23:35:22 <Phantom_Hoover> solely on the basis of "CHILDREN ARE HUMANS"
23:35:46 <Zarutian> oren: what I have found the most irritating about schooling is rote-memorization.
23:35:49 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: So you think treating children like actual humans - giving them the right of choice to what they want to learn about - is "exact"?
23:36:07 <Phantom_Hoover> you've never been responsible for a child have you rdococ
23:36:07 <\oren\> there would be at the very least a generalized "Art Stream", "Humanities Stream", "Science Stream", divided starting in grade 5
23:36:18 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: You've never given a fuck about a child, have you?
23:36:29 <Phantom_Hoover> you just are/were recently a child and have a chip on your shoulder about your treatment
23:37:01 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: is the converse the true about you? That you were child so long ago that you have forgotten?
23:37:02 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Seriously?
23:37:13 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, i've never been responsible for a child, no. which is why i don't go around shooting my mouth off about it on the internet like i know for sure how best to do it
23:37:30 <Phantom_Hoover> this apparently is no obstacle to you
23:37:32 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: I have even deeper experience with children. I AM A CHILD.
23:37:46 <Phantom_Hoover> well no shit welcome to the entire fucking human race
23:38:13 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: what do you think about the idea of dividing students into different career streams very early
23:38:36 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Hm. Okay. Let me get this straight. You think I should have little to no say in how I should be treated, for what legitimate reason exactly?
23:38:48 <Zarutian> oren: it is not the splitting up the curiculum or such that I deem to be the problem but the actual methods used to do teaching.
23:39:04 <rdococ> At the moment, it's hard not to call you an asshole for thinking I shouldn't be given freedoms.
23:39:15 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean you are obviously entitled to a say but not to total dictatorial fiat over the matter
23:39:25 <rdococ> That's not what you sound like.
23:39:28 -!- sleffy has joined.
23:39:38 <int-e> rdococ: Look, one source of your lack of creativity is probably that you simply disregard certain kinds of information as uninteresting. However, one key source of inspiration is to think about various things, and try to connect them. School may not be perfect but it can still function as a source of inspiration. You probably also do not appreciate (but that time will come) just how much free...
23:39:44 <int-e> ...time you have, even with school taking a huge part out of that. Finally, this is hard to accept, but what you think is good for you and what will actually benefit you in the long term are not the same thing.
23:39:48 <\oren\> I think if students are being taught subjects they are interested in they will learn well even if teachers are quite incompetent
23:39:52 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, sounds crazy tbqh
23:40:02 <rdococ> So you think shit like school is going to benefit me?
23:40:20 <boily> `relcome sleffy
23:40:22 <HackEgo> sleffy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
23:40:22 <rdococ> Even if all I've actually learned is "my life is futile" or some shit like that?
23:40:24 <Zarutian> rdococ: you could look at Phantom_Hoover as a demented geraric that should not be given as much freedom as he is old curmagedonly and does not know how to navigate the current world. Just as an thought exercise.
23:40:50 <boily> Phantom_Hoover is old?
23:40:53 <rdococ> Zarutian: You know, that's actually a very good idea. It would show him how I feel.
23:41:03 <rdococ> I'm not sure how I would go about it, though.
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23:41:18 <Phantom_Hoover> fuck me we were the channel babies 6 years ago and already we're geriatrics
23:41:26 <sleffy> whoa, I get a relcome committee?
23:41:31 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: this is how your attitude to rdococ comes across here.
23:42:11 <Phantom_Hoover> my attitude to rdococ is basically "i remember kind of feeling similarly in the past and i now think that i was pretty misguided"
23:42:17 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: why should we teach students to analyze shakespeare if they are destined to program, write proofs, or weld steel?
23:42:28 <rdococ> And it comes across as "You are pretty misguided because I think I was."
23:42:43 <rdococ> Well, Phantom_Hoover, you seem to be the misguided one here.
23:42:47 <Phantom_Hoover> pretty much yeah. you sound pretty misguided
23:43:00 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in).
23:43:12 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: you remember feeling similarly in the past and now you think you were pretty misguided. What caused your change of heart?
23:43:17 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm guessing you're mid teens? everyone in their mid teens thinks that they unquestionably know what's best for them and that the world is unfairly conspiring to keep them down
23:43:24 <rdococ> -_-
23:43:38 <Jafet> there is a programming language based on shakespeare
23:43:48 <int-e> . o O ( they're half right anyway... :-P )
23:43:50 <\oren\> t(-_-)t
23:44:03 <int-e> . o O ( guess which half ;-) )
23:44:05 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: oh, ya think this is purely gelgjuskapur? (closest but not quite acurate translation is teenage agnst)
23:44:07 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, well do you think the purpose of school is solely to turn you into an effective worker
23:44:11 <\oren\> yes
23:44:23 <Phantom_Hoover> as opposed to an effective member of society?
23:44:43 <Zarutian> Jafet: yeah, but I do not recall its name. I could be something like "To Be or Not To Be, that is the buzzing question"
23:44:47 <boily> sleffy: we always welcome newcomers to this fine channel! (we being usually myself, trigger happy with the `relcomes...)
23:44:48 <rdococ> -.-
23:44:49 <\oren\> to a first order approximation, an effective worker is an effective contributor to society
23:45:06 <boily> sleffy: have you already perused our magnific wiki?
23:45:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Zarutian, well that's too patronising because obviously a lot of people do go through unfair shit in their teens
23:45:28 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: what is an effective member of society? Everyone I have ever asks only give answers that are insubstancial as fog when probed.
23:45:35 <int-e> boily: did you see that shachaf rebelled against the eternal wisdom?
23:45:39 <Phantom_Hoover> but when you're a teenager you tend to be really bad at evaluating that!
23:45:45 <shachaf> int-e: What!
23:45:49 <sleffy> boily, that's how I got here
23:46:01 <shachaf> ais523 is responsible.
23:46:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Zarutian, idk. as far as shakespeare goes i think the ability to engage with and understand culture is valuable and we would be impoverished without it
23:46:27 <boily> int-ello! what you say!
23:46:28 <Jafet> actually, the language is just named Shakespeare
23:46:28 <sleffy> Specifically, my interest in entirely usable and practical programming languages with real-world applications
23:46:31 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: it is the patronising that seems to be what is comming from you. But then again often the 'it is too complex for you to understand' implict attitude does that.
23:46:39 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Okay. Listen. You think you know what my life is like? Well, you don't. You've grown so old you don't remember how shit school was. But I do remember, because I am living in it. I don't give a fuck if it's "beneficial to me in the long term" (which it absolutely isn't), I'm sick of being treated like shit.
23:47:11 <boily> sleffy: computer science student?
23:47:12 <Phantom_Hoover> look i'm not saying, at all, that whatever you're going through at school is for your own good so shut up and stop complaining
23:47:20 <Zarutian> rdococ: do tell, perhaps we gain some insight why the schooling system is not working, at least not working for you?
23:47:31 <sleffy> boily, I guess I'm technically a student
23:47:48 <sleffy> I'm fresh out of high school, on a "gap year" which turned into getting bored enough to take classes at city college
23:47:55 <\oren\> I was a high school student only 6 years ago
23:47:58 <Phantom_Hoover> what i am saying is that you shouldn't use your personal experiences to inform a total hatred of all formal education
23:48:09 <rdococ> I don't hate all formal education.
23:48:12 <rdococ> I hate all public schooling.
23:48:20 <Phantom_Hoover> potato, potato
23:48:23 <boily> sleffy: heh :D
23:48:23 <int-e> boily: http://sprunge.us/NgEP seems to be the relevant bit (for reference, it's now 00:48)
23:48:31 <Phantom_Hoover> you shouldn't do that either
23:48:43 <rdococ> Okay.
23:48:48 <sleffy> Language design is a hobby, personal goal is a fairly ergonomic efficient and purely functional language which can run without a heap
23:48:56 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: do like I do, look if the experience is shared with lot of other people, then use that to inform the hatred of stultified education.
23:49:00 <rdococ> I hate all public schooling that requires you to "learn" about things you're not interested in.
23:49:05 <boily> int-e: dun dun dun! I can't remember when was the last time I updated it, tho...
23:49:32 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: The point is, the majority of what people think when they hear the word "school", is utter bullshit.
23:49:41 <Zarutian> rdococ: and are not even remotely usefull? is that a good qualifier to add?
23:49:49 <int-e> boily: just before christmas it seems
23:49:59 <rdococ> Zarutian: Agreed.
23:50:00 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, hahaha do you not see how you're coming across here as an angry kid who thinks he knows better than everyone else
23:50:15 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: to you maybe, I quite sympathize
23:50:19 <boily> sleffy: running without a heap is quite difficult. you can try to cram everything on the stack, but then you're still stuck doing some memory shuffling by other means to achieve interesting stuff.
23:50:25 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: I don't think I know better than everyone else. But I do know better than everyone else about myself.
23:50:35 <rdococ> And, perhaps, other students too.
23:50:37 <boily> int-e: it's always before christmas.
23:50:46 <rdococ> I don't know what goes on in the brains of other people, and I don't admit to that.
23:50:53 <int-e> boily: it's not always *just* before christmas though.
23:50:56 <Phantom_Hoover> you objectively don't, humans are incredibly shitty at self-evaluating
23:50:58 <sleffy> boily, I'm okay with a sorta "holey" stack. That's a necessary sacrifice to make. For reference I'm looking at Rust's implementation which admits the same thing
23:50:58 <rdococ> But I do know many students seem to complain.
23:51:00 <Zarutian> rdococ: even though said usefullness is only to kindle a bit of likeness to good asethetics. Like learning of the still life paintings of the old masters.
23:51:09 <sleffy> TBF Rust trusts the LLVM to optimize bits of that away
23:51:24 <boily> int-e: point.
23:51:46 <sleffy> And also, while I want it to be usable without a heap, I recognize that for many things a heap is borderline necessary, so I want to make heap operations available via a library
23:52:07 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Imagine a thought experiment where you were prodded and poked with a hot iron, and then I said the same sort of things to you. How would you feel? Probably pretty upset. But that's just your objective shittiness to self-evaluation, correct?
23:52:08 * int-e ponders doing a quick s/shachaf/anonymous/g
23:52:10 <Phantom_Hoover> putting everything on the stack would mean aligning your function call structure with your memory allocation patterns, right?
23:52:16 <Zarutian> rdococ: what do those students complain mostly about?
23:52:55 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, i'm not even going to engage with that because you are not in fact being prodded with a hot iron
23:53:09 <\oren\> basically, I was forced to learn about shakespere plays and other things that I wasn't interested in, do not use in my present job, and had no benefit I can percieve.
23:53:45 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Really, I thought I was. </sarcasm> The point is, humans might be shitty at self-evaluation, but they aren't shitty at realising when they're being treated like shit.
23:53:55 <Phantom_Hoover> i absolutely hated doing shakespeare in school but
23:53:57 <rdococ> What if I said all this kind of stuff to slaves, back when slavery was accepted?
23:53:58 <rdococ> But what?
23:54:37 <rdococ> But now you're grateful because you can now torment the next generation on how they're so bad at self-evaluation?
23:54:39 <Phantom_Hoover> later on in english we did some other texts which i found engaging and had things to say about
23:54:44 <sleffy> Phantom_Hoover, yeah, I guess so, if I understand exactly what you mean
23:54:45 <rdococ> So?
23:54:55 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: What does that have to do with shakespeare?
23:54:59 <sleffy> I assume you're referring to returning large structures which don't fit in a register?
23:55:09 <Zarutian> rdococ: news for ya, most people are still bad at self-evaluation even after teenage years.
23:55:17 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Maybe if they had started with the engaging texts, you'd be a writer.
23:55:25 * Zarutian considers himself below average driver for example.
23:55:55 <Phantom_Hoover> and subsequently the ability to critically analyse works i read for entertainment has, i think, really enhanced my appreciation of them
23:55:58 <rdococ> Zarutian: Maybe that's what Phantom_Hoover is going through, then. He is re-evaluating his past at school, and his past-evaluation is shit - which I definitely agree is true.
23:56:13 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Again, maybe if they had started with the engaging texts, you'd be a author.
23:56:14 <Jafet> it's kind of hard to make a minimalist stack language if you want it to be more powerful than push-down
23:56:40 <rdococ> Jafet: You could cheat and turn it into a tape by adding a command to move the top element to the bottom.
23:56:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Jafet, no it isn't
23:57:26 <\oren\> rdococ: I have a more advanced theory: If I hadn't wasted so much time on useless stuff I could have entered university 2 years earlier, and by now been working fro 3 years.
23:57:27 <Phantom_Hoover> efficient stack-only allocation basically just means that you malloc/free in FILO order
23:57:34 <Jafet> it's already hard to make a pure functional language that doesn't have pippenger's slowdown
23:57:44 <Jafet> well malloc isn't really minimalist
23:57:51 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Do you think your two separate experiences of "doing Shakespeare" and "critically analysing works" somehow 'prove' that school is 'good' for you? Because they don't.
23:57:59 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:58:34 <Phantom_Hoover> i think they proved to me that hating being in a class in school does not invalidate the entire value of teching that thing in school
23:58:36 -!- hppavilion[1] has joined.
23:58:52 <rdococ> It kind of does, if you're not interested in such a thing in the first place.
23:59:12 <rdococ> Either way, it definitely comes across to me that you are saying "whatever you're going through at school is for your own good so shut up and stop complaining"
23:59:33 <\oren\> basically, by not allowing children to specialize their education to the things they are good at, we are wasting literally YEARS of productivity for every individual
23:59:38 <Phantom_Hoover> no, not at all. i am saying that please stop posting here saying that school is useless and terrible
23:59:44 <rdococ> Exactly, \oren\.
23:59:45 <Jafet> also you may mean fifo order, which is less delicious but more stack-like
2017-04-08
00:00:06 <Phantom_Hoover> fuck i was going to write fifo but then i was like 'that's the wrong one'
00:00:14 <shachaf> int-e: Where?
00:00:15 <Phantom_Hoover> no it must be filo
00:00:25 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Others seem to be participating in the topic - you seem to be bored of it. I guess I'll just get bored of the stories of people with cancer, or poverty, too.
00:00:28 <\oren\> our economy as a whole is then hindered, and billions of dollars are wasted
00:00:31 <Phantom_Hoover> filo: push a b c d, pop d c b a
00:00:38 <rdococ> \oren\: Exactly!
00:00:50 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm not bored, quite the opposite
00:01:00 <Phantom_Hoover> fifo: push a b c d, pop a b c d
00:01:06 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Then why do you want me to stop?
00:01:15 <int-e> shachaf: in boily's wisdom repo
00:01:31 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Because you are trying to invalidate my cries for help?
00:01:35 <Phantom_Hoover> because i think you're being an arrogant prick who thinks he knows better than everyone else on the planet
00:01:47 <rdococ> Ah.
00:01:58 <rdococ> We both seem to think that each other is being said arrogant prick.
00:02:01 <hppavilion[1]> Wait, is MIDI really fixed to 128 instruments?
00:02:13 <rdococ> Except, what we are discussing is the education of people like me.
00:02:16 <hppavilion[1]> like, in the sense that there are 128 instruments it can use and no more??
00:02:22 <int-e> shachaf: which would not have any immediate effect and I rather suspect boily would just revert the change and revoke my commit access :P
00:02:25 <Phantom_Hoover> you have my every sympathy in your cries for help but i suggest finding a way to express them that isn't "i know better than all these idiots who make up society"
00:02:33 <rdococ> We both seem to think that each other is being said arrogant prick.
00:02:35 <rdococ> Except, what we are discussing is the education of people like me.
00:02:54 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm quite worried for your sake that you'll end up reading ayn rand or something
00:02:55 <Jafet> a large orchestra has fewer than 128 different instruments
00:02:58 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: School isn't useless, but it would be better by allowing some specialization
00:03:02 <rdococ> "Ayn Rand"?
00:03:08 <\oren\> from the moment you find out, "well timmy is good at writing creatively, but not so good at long division and algebra" little timmy could be placed into a special "writing stream" where only the most vital mathematics is taught.
00:03:33 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: The issue with that, of course, is that sometimes you figure it out later on, or you just get a bad teacher
00:03:45 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, literally have you looked at any research that's been done on the effectiveness of aggressive streaming in education
00:03:45 <\oren\> rdococ: Ayn Rand is a writer who a lot of people hate. Read her books!
00:03:56 <rdococ> \oren\: Why do people hate her?
00:04:09 <int-e> https://xkcd.com/1049/ <-- having read the books I fully agree
00:04:13 <Phantom_Hoover> because she's the definition of arrogant, self-absorbed, antisocial selfishness
00:04:29 <\oren\> rdococ: and has "bad" political views
00:04:43 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, i would advance https://xkcd.com/610/ as the better xkcd take on rand
00:04:58 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, fuck me are you an objectivist
00:05:11 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: No, I'm a TROLL
00:05:16 <rdococ> er...
00:05:39 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: hmm, perhaps too ambiguous without the image title
00:05:49 <rdococ> I'm sorry, how is "School is shit, it treats students like shit, it should be abolished" equal to "Be an asshole and troll to everyone! LOL!"
00:05:50 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Especially like, what if Timmy could be a great mathematics communicator, educating the dull masses about the wonderful and useful parts of mathematics (See: Douglass Hofstadter; Matt Parker; James Grimes; Mr. whoever wrote How Not To Be Wrong) that- if they teach you them in school *at all*- they wait until AP high school classes to even *mention* despite the simplicity of the basics (like Group Theory)
00:06:11 <\oren\> rdococ: so, If you want to learn ideas that will utterly infuriate people like Phantom_Hoover, read the book "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand!
00:06:42 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, did you look at the comic i linked?
00:06:47 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover, I did.
00:07:07 <hppavilion[1]> But, since you deny him anything more than the most basic mathematics (and he likes that!), he never gets to the good part and just internalizes that math is terrible because it's a chore that he does because he *must* and because he never has to *really* understand, so he never sees the good part
00:07:13 <Phantom_Hoover> do you see why i get a sense of the same sentiments from what you've been saying here
00:07:19 <Jafet> Phantom_Hoover: hmm for some reason I had associated a stack with lifo order but not filo
00:07:42 <rdococ> I can sort of see where you're coming from, but where she goes "Everyone is stupid; be an asshole", I go "Everyone is stupid about this one particular thing; try to educate them".
00:07:53 <rdococ> Educate in the good way, not the school way.
00:08:03 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: Yeah.
00:08:15 <rdococ> Because educating people in the school method about things would be equivalent to being an asshole, and a control freak to boot.
00:08:28 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: The way schools teach mathematics is atrociously unmathematical
00:08:34 <rdococ> hppavilion[1]: Agreed.
00:08:35 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, okay but what you seem to be missing out on is the part where
00:08:49 <hppavilion[1]> My precalculus teacher was literally impressed when I decided to prove the Change of Base Theorem
00:09:01 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: I believe I covered the "arrogant" part you keep going on about already.
00:09:05 <Phantom_Hoover> "maybe everyone else isn't stupid, maybe i'm not the only person who happens to be right, maybe they have a case for their beliefs and it's more complicated than i think"
00:09:29 <rdococ> Hm.
00:09:30 <hppavilion[1]> (that is, if you're unsure, log_b(x) = log_k(x)/log_k(b) forall [usefully-defined] k)
00:09:33 <Phantom_Hoover> "maybe i should try to make my voice heard but in doing so hear the voices of others"
00:09:38 <\oren\> rdococ: In general, I advocate reading about dangerous ideas. Read Atlas Shrugged. Read the book "Beyond Good and Evil" by Nietzsche. Read "Capital" by Karl Marx.
00:09:39 <rdococ> Okay.
00:10:02 <rdococ> So these voices of others are "Go to school, a place you find hell, because it'll probably be good for you in the future, idk because I don't remember. LOl!"
00:10:05 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Read Art of the Deal
00:10:21 <rdococ> And my voice is "Please kill me now, or free me from this terrifying dystopia."
00:10:24 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: indeed, although it wasn't actually written by Trump
00:10:29 <Phantom_Hoover> don't actually read atlas shrugged tho because it's the prose equivalent of that thing where you try to eat a packet of crackers without drinking any water"
00:10:35 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yeah, that'd be one of the dangerous ideas.
00:10:52 <rdococ> Are you seriously expecting me to listen to voices that agree with my almost literal enslavement?
00:10:52 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Ah, Nietzsche
00:11:08 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: It's not *that* close to literal
00:11:17 <rdococ> hppavilion[1]: It's not too far from literal, either.
00:11:27 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, okay see this is what i'm talking about, when you are at the point where going to school is "almost literal enslavement" you have nobody to blame but yourself when people don't take you seriously
00:11:39 <Jafet> Das Kapital is mostly a rather weird and outdated theory of macroeconomics
00:11:46 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: I don't understand what you mean.
00:11:53 <Zarutian> rdococ: I am not sure if you answered already. How is grading done in your school? Is it beurocratically arbritary and based on the whim of the teachers?
00:11:55 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: um. I don't actually see how he's wrong.
00:11:58 <rdococ> Is this another one of your rants where you try to explain away my feelings?
00:12:00 <Phantom_Hoover> this again is a hallmark of randians
00:12:06 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: OTOH, reading "Beyond Good and Evil" and "Capital" might be a bad idea because they were written by people that we don't like in a foreign language
00:12:13 <rdococ> I'm not selfish, either.
00:12:27 <Phantom_Hoover> "paying my taxes is LITERALLY SLAVERY AND RAPE"
00:12:28 <Zarutian> Jafet: so is most of Keynesian and think Mises stuff.
00:12:30 <rdococ> ...
00:12:42 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: And since we don't plan to teach students fluent German *just* to read 2 books, they'll be reading a translation
00:12:55 <Zarutian> Jafet: it is like many of them have not learned proberly about logistics or meta-logistics.
00:12:58 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Okay, okay, wait, so you think I equate paying taxes to the fresh hell of school?
00:12:58 <Phantom_Hoover> \oren\, i don't know what to say except 'read more about what slavery is'
00:13:16 <\oren\> Phantom_Hoover: being forced to do work without being paid
00:13:30 <rdococ> EXACTLY.
00:13:32 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: I do not know about you. But my taxes do not go to boondoggles like wars.
00:13:40 <Phantom_Hoover> is doing community service as punishment for a crime LITERAL SLAVERY then
00:13:45 <\oren\> yes.
00:13:52 <Phantom_Hoover> should it then be abolished
00:13:56 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Work that benefits others without benefiting you, involuntarily
00:14:13 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: I mean, you are ~forced to do school work and not *directly* paid
00:14:15 <rdococ> Honestly, some of my stronger feelings are that all punishment should be abolished, but that's not the point of this conversation.
00:14:19 <hppavilion[1]> er, \oren\
00:14:35 <Zarutian> Phantom_Hoover: depends on the crime. Some crimes such as publicly urinating should result in public toilet cleaning and mantenance.
00:14:40 <rdococ> hppavilion[1]: I'm sorry, are you about to suggest that school indirectly benefits me? That's what Phantom_Hoover has been saying this whole time.
00:14:45 <hppavilion[1]> And since the translator was probably an American with the pre-internalized "COMMUNISM AND ATHEISM ARE BAD", regardless of whether it's true (the first may be, the second is not), so the translation is pretty bad.
00:14:50 <shachaf> Should this conversation be abolished?
00:14:57 <Phantom_Hoover> imho yes
00:14:59 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: yes?
00:15:04 <rdococ> shachaf, I don't know; does it include slavery?
00:15:05 * hppavilion[1] submits his vote
00:15:08 <\oren\> hppavilion[1]: there are translators who are communists
00:15:09 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, look, white smoke
00:15:12 <Phantom_Hoover> my posting in this conversation is LITERAL SLAVERY
00:15:15 <rdococ> As in, not as a topic of conversation, but as an actual thing.
00:15:22 <hppavilion[1]> \oren\: Yeah, but we're not going to trust those dirty communists to educate their kids
00:15:29 <shachaf> Atheism may be bad.
00:15:30 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Making that stupid joke is LITERALLY SLAVERY
00:15:36 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Probably not though.
00:15:42 <shachaf> I'm not sure.
00:15:47 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: You can opt out of this conversation whenever you want. At this point, you're just making shitty jokes.
00:15:53 <hppavilion[1]> No more than any other religion*.
00:15:57 <rdococ> In a very serious topic, too.
00:15:59 <rdococ> Shame on you.
00:16:00 <Phantom_Hoover> it's true, i am compelled here by the MALIGNANT FORCE OF A TYRANNICAL SOCIETY to post in this conversation
00:16:17 <int-e> I think this conversation should move to a different channel.
00:16:20 <hppavilion[1]> [*I mean, atheism isn't one, but it's still a value- the same way you can have 0 sheep]
00:16:21 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: Do you seriously fucking think that what I go through is equivalent to a joke?
00:16:23 <shachaf> I agree.
00:16:25 <\oren\> No personally I advocate exposing oneself to as many ideas that others hate as possible.
00:16:26 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Or abolished entirely
00:16:35 <shachaf> How about #esoteric-blah?
00:16:39 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, the real tragedy of it is that we were actually talking about esolangs for a minute earlier
00:16:40 <int-e> hppavilion[1]: I don't care about that, really
00:16:42 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: I was going to suggest #esoteric-flame
00:16:46 <Phantom_Hoover> and it was quite an interesting topic
00:17:13 <rdococ> Another tragedy is you don't give a fuck about children.
00:17:21 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Making a computer contort to execute esolangs for you is LITERAL SLAVERY
00:17:24 <rdococ> Humanity's future, being treated like shit.
00:17:36 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, for the nth time this isn't about what you're going through, it's about your decision to shitpost in #esoteric about it
00:17:53 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: Is there a procedure for some sort of official channel vote, or..?
00:18:05 <Phantom_Hoover> the procedure is finding someone with ops
00:18:12 <hppavilion[1]> Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, figured
00:18:14 <hppavilion[1]> Hm
00:18:16 <alercah> hppavilion[1]: first the chair must clearly state the motion to be voted on
00:18:24 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: Ah, yes.
00:18:30 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: On a related note, are you a fan of Nomic?
00:18:31 <hppavilion[1]> ^ops
00:18:33 <alercah> yes
00:18:36 <hppavilion[1]> :D
00:18:38 <hppavilion[1]> `ops
00:18:39 <HackEgo> ​/msg ChanServ access list #esoteric
00:18:41 <alercah> though not enough time to play lately
00:18:47 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover: This started because someone called me out on my lack of creativity.
00:19:01 <hppavilion[1]> I ran #xkcd-nomic on Foonetic for a while, but it deyed
00:19:16 <rdococ> I explained that school caused it, and now here we are, with someone on my side, an idiot who can't tell slavery from taxes, and some other people who just want to esolang.
00:19:42 <rdococ> I think we should stop already. I have two weeks off, and I shouldn't let this stupid school thing swallow my life.
00:20:07 <rdococ> Agreed?
00:20:12 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: poke?
00:20:13 <Phantom_Hoover> that is by far the wisest thing you've said tonight
00:20:26 <hppavilion[1]> `wisdom
00:20:27 <rdococ> Or you're just going to criticise me again.
00:20:27 <HackEgo> steprans//A Steprans variable is a variable whose notation is variable.
00:21:04 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm not, 'don't let this stupid school thing swallow your life' is genuinely an excellent idea regardless of what you or i think about the whole thing
00:21:06 <rdococ> At least the wisest thing I've said tonight, includes the fact that Phantom_Hoover is an idiot who can't tell slavery from taxes.
00:21:34 <int-e> rdococ: you're an insufferable prick right now
00:21:58 <hppavilion[1]> int-e is correct
00:21:59 <rdococ> int-e: I'm sorry if I'm causing you any discomfort. School causes me discomfort too, so I can sympathize.
00:22:00 <\oren\> rdococ: he was trolling me when he said that
00:22:02 <int-e> now what was that thing about stacks
00:22:20 <hppavilion[1]> int-e: Ah, yes
00:22:21 <\oren\> he thought I adhered to the ideology of Ayn Rand
00:22:33 * hppavilion[1] pops this topic of conversation off of the #esoteric tangent stack
00:22:49 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, please please follow your own good advice and drop it
00:22:57 <fizzie> hppavilion[1]: Peek?
00:23:28 <hppavilion[1]> fizzie: Hi
00:23:31 <rdococ> Phantom_Hoover, I was in the process of doing such a thing.
00:24:06 <rdococ> Of course, the conversation has been popped from the stack; the conversation is no longer stored in memory. So, drop what?
00:24:13 <\oren\> drop it and go to the library and get some of those books I told you about, you'll like them I think
00:24:17 <int-e> So a minimalist stack language with two stacks would be Turing-complete. The challenge is to find something interesting and minimal between PDA and TC.
00:24:29 <rdococ> Between PDA and TC?
00:24:49 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought we were originally talking about a notional rust variant with only stack allocation
00:24:52 <shachaf> I'd like someone to figure out how Call Queue works.
00:24:57 <int-e> PDA = push-down automaton; TC = Turing complete
00:25:03 <rdococ> Yes, I know.
00:25:05 <Phantom_Hoover> which i thought was quite interesting because it's esoteric in a reasonably practical way
00:25:14 <shachaf> pooch-down automaton?!
00:25:35 <int-e> can we ban pooches too
00:26:05 <rdococ> Pull-Up automaton
00:26:08 <boily> pooch pooch pooch pooch pooch pooch ♪
00:26:08 <fizzie> int-e: There's that tree stack thing.
00:26:50 <rdococ> I wonder if giving a data tree the ability to hold a countably infinite number of branches and nodes would give it FSA capability, or TC capability.
00:27:12 <int-e> fizzie: oh I haven't seen that, thanks!
00:27:22 <hppavilion[1]> shachaf: It's really an incomplete language, and I think that the page at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Call_Queue should just explain the concept, personally
00:27:28 <hppavilion[1]> Rather than a particular incomplete language
00:27:36 <Phantom_Hoover> the tree alone has no computational class, how are you operating on it
00:28:36 <Phantom_Hoover> a PDA has an infinite stack but since it can only operate on the top element it's sub-TC; give it the ability to operate on an arbitrary element and its TC
00:29:05 <rdococ> Hm.
00:29:16 <rdococ> How about an FSA that fits the criteria to be a tree?
00:29:20 <int-e> Phantom_Hoover: google brought me to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_stack_automaton
00:30:38 <Phantom_Hoover> rdococ, well you can unwind any FSA's state graph into a countably infinite tree
00:31:01 <rdococ> Exactly my point.
00:31:04 <rdococ> Kinda.
00:31:18 <rdococ> I guess that was my point, but I'm never certain.
00:31:46 <rdococ> How about an uncountably infinite tree?
00:31:54 <rdococ> Would that be PDA, or TC?
00:32:16 <rdococ> You may be able to unwind an infinite SA's state graph into an uncountably infinite tree, yes?
00:32:41 <rdococ> That would make it TC.
00:32:51 <Phantom_Hoover> you could unwind any TM into a countable tree as well i think
00:34:03 <Phantom_Hoover> except idk if the operation i have in mind is any kind of meaningful
00:34:39 <rdococ> hm.
00:34:40 <fizzie> Wikipedia's template has a lot of proper subsets: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Formal_languages_and_grammars
00:34:45 <int-e> though right now I'm irritated by the presence of "set_\gamma"... unless that only works on leaves...
00:35:50 <fizzie> There's the nested stack automaton too, that's like the Funge-98 stack stack.
00:36:47 <Phantom_Hoover> int-e, in general i'd expect these to be TC...
00:37:36 <Phantom_Hoover> like you should just be able to directly use the tree stack as a tape
00:37:52 <fizzie> The tree stack one is, but the restricted form isn't.
00:37:57 <fizzie> And the nested stack one isn't.
00:39:07 <Phantom_Hoover> answers the original question i guess
00:39:40 <fizzie> Granted the restriction Wikipedia talks about is a little awkwardly arbitrary.
00:41:16 <rdococ> With multiplication and division by a set amount, could a BF machine with one cell and unbounded value be TC?
00:41:37 <rdococ> ...Not sure.
00:42:24 <Phantom_Hoover> surely 'no'
00:42:52 <Phantom_Hoover> because your only way to do anything conditionally is if the cell drops to 0, at which stage all the data in your program is gone
00:42:54 <int-e> you need some extra conditional, otherwise any test will reset your state completely in one of the branches
00:43:46 <Phantom_Hoover> yes, it's basically a finite state machine where the state is just which loop you're in
00:45:01 <rdococ> true
00:45:17 <rdococ> oh
00:45:23 <rdococ> nvm
00:47:21 <Jafet> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Collatz_function#Reduction_to_3-cell_brainfuck
00:48:02 <Jafet> two-cell is probably sub-TC but it seems that no one's bothered to prove it?
00:49:50 <Phantom_Hoover> 2-cell brainfuck + constant multiplication/divison is enough that i'd wonder if you could do FRACTRAN in it
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00:54:51 <int-e> Jafet: oerjan has tried but I believe his proof is still incomplete
00:59:55 <int-e> Jafet: I once tried to make things work with just two mutable cells and one or two that is always zero (and where trying to modify that cell would be an error)
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01:10:56 <hppavilion[1]> SubStation Alpha is an... unfortunate format
01:11:09 <hppavilion[1]> The file extension is .ass
01:12:05 <rdococ> lol
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01:22:44 <hppavilion[1]> Oh, no, it's Advanced SubStation Alpha
01:22:48 <hppavilion[1]> (the subtitle format)
01:22:50 <rdococ> ha
01:22:52 <rdococ> .assa
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02:48:13 <slacko64_31196> I think noah built the great pyramid, and it's actually the great ark
02:48:44 <rdococ> I think the ark was made from the cheese of the pizzas noah kept
02:49:08 <slacko64_31196> i think sharp chedder is the best kind of cheese, but only when it's melted
02:49:36 <rdococ> think about this:
02:49:47 <rdococ> if only two of every animal got on board, all of them would have to inbreed
02:51:21 <slacko64_31196> http://viewzone.com/pyramidcavesx.html
02:51:35 <slacko64_31196> think about this:
02:51:39 <slacko64_31196> the telephone game
02:51:52 <slacko64_31196> the details of stories are lost as time moves forwards
02:52:09 <slacko64_31196> so if you hear a story about taking two of each animal literally, well...
02:54:06 <rdococ> true
02:54:26 <rdococ> I'm not religious anyway
03:01:40 <oerjan> there were seven pairs of _some_ animals </quibble>
03:02:50 <rdococ> ?
03:03:47 <oerjan> the clean ones, aka those jews can eat
03:03:53 <rdococ> ah
03:05:09 <slacko64_31196> the kosher ones
03:07:47 <rdococ> sounds kosher
03:07:56 <oerjan> `relcome slacko64_31196
03:07:57 <HackEgo> slacko64_31196: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.)
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03:08:26 <oerjan> i suspect our topic is a bit deceptive at the moment.
03:09:09 <shachaf> whoa whoa whoa, what happened to the topic?
03:09:14 -!- oerjan has set topic: Olds: There ar pyramids in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
03:09:19 <oerjan> oops
03:09:26 -!- oerjan has set topic: Olds: There are pyramids in Egypt | http://esolangs.org/ | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | For extensive phở testing, use #esoteric-blah.
03:35:40 <\oren\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyQWXRJ8Lc4
03:40:53 <Jafet> they say it's a new pyramid, but it seems pretty old
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06:11:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:Picofuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51646&oldid=51616 * Oerjan * (+1109) /* Conjecture counterexample */ new section
06:15:31 <oerjan> `? esoteric files archive
06:15:31 <HackEgo> cat: esoteric files archive: Is a directory
06:15:37 <oerjan> wat
06:16:14 <shachaf> I ran into evincar today.
06:16:23 <oerjan> oh duh
06:16:42 <oerjan> that's a bug, hm, but how did that happen
06:16:50 <oerjan> oh right
06:17:03 <oerjan> `revert
06:17:04 <HackEgo> Done.
06:17:06 <shachaf> I'm on my phone, hard to see what command I ran.
06:17:14 <shachaf> Did I mess it up?
06:17:16 <oerjan> you forgot to use two slashes
06:17:29 <shachaf> Oh. But it had http://
06:17:34 <oerjan> yep
06:17:34 <shachaf> I see now.
06:17:57 <shachaf> You should force le//rn
06:18:02 <oerjan> i noticed it into the log because the response was lower cased
06:18:04 <oerjan> shachaf: i do
06:18:24 <oerjan> *in
06:18:37 <shachaf> No, I used l a/rn
06:18:43 <shachaf> le/rn
06:19:01 <oerjan> well that's not the point where the error happens, anyway
06:19:32 <shachaf> If it failed with the name le/rn I would've remembered to double slash it.
06:21:24 <oerjan> `` hg log -1
06:21:25 <HackEgo> hg log: option -1 not recognized \ hg log [OPTION]... [FILE] \ \ show revision history of entire repository or files \ \ options: \ \ -f --follow follow changeset history, or file history across \ copies and renames \ -d --date DATE show revisions matching date spec \ -C --copies s
06:21:30 <oerjan> hmph
06:22:46 <oerjan> `le/rn esoteric files archive//The Esoteric Files Archive is now available at https://github.com/graue/esofiles
06:22:47 <HackEgo> Learned 'esoteric files archive': The Esoteric Files Archive is now available at https://github.com/graue/esofiles
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07:07:17 * oerjan fetches the big firehose to flush out all the remains of burnt strawmen from yesterday's channel discussions
07:07:48 <shachaf> I was on my phone for most of that conversation so I didn't read it carefully.
07:08:03 <oerjan> i'm not reading it carefully either.
07:08:17 <shachaf> I mean I barely read any of it.
07:08:22 <shachaf> Maybe I'm better off that way.
07:08:28 <oerjan> almost certainly.
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08:42:37 <fizzie> A mer-pointer is half fish, half pointer. A fishy pointer, if you will.
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09:16:56 <shachaf> Which half is the fish?
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09:28:20 <fizzie> I think it's the pointy half.
09:37:42 <fizzie> That's so odd. java.sql.SQLException implements Iterable<Throwable>.
09:38:16 <fizzie> It iterates over the cause chain, which makes some amount of sense, but it's specifically SQLException and its derivatives.
09:38:43 <fizzie> Looks odd in the "All Known Implementing Classes" list of https://docs.oracle.com/javase/8/docs/api/java/lang/Iterable.html
09:51:59 <\oren\> for future reference: any plan that involves flying at 25 km altitude at 5 km/s is a good plan
11:00:32 <int-e> . o O ( "This [...] is just Coyoneda" is not really helping me! )
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11:04:21 <int-e> \oren\: let me guess, the vessel was called Tunguska?
11:10:44 <int-e> Hmm I don't know... 25km altitude may actually be high enough to not immediately flatten everything on ground.
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13:23:15 <rdococ> sounds flighty
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14:07:37 <rdococ> yay
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14:44:34 <boily> `wisdom
14:44:35 <HackEgo> disflagrate//disflagrate v.t.perf.: a traditional technique from Poland (earliest attestation c. 1042) used to separate szoups. Nowadays, commercial production is entirely mechanized.
14:45:13 <boily> `cwlprits disflagrate
14:45:22 <HackEgo> oerjän boil̈y
14:55:11 <Jafet> `? szoup
14:55:12 <HackEgo> A szoup a szilárd tápszereknek híg alakban való elkészítése a célból, hogy könnyebben emészthetők legyenek; a hígító anyag a viz, mely feloldja s magába veszi a tápanyag legértékesebb részeit.
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14:57:40 <boily> `? unnerver
14:57:41 <HackEgo> unnerver? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:28:39 <rdococ> `wisdom
15:28:41 <HackEgo> nothing//Nothing would have been better than to create this wisdom entry.
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15:36:13 <Jafet> oerjan has a firehose? ╺ը╾═══💦⢑
15:37:16 <Jafet> perhaps it delivers disflagrating szoup
15:42:38 <boily> oerjan has a firehose?
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16:14:51 <rdococ> oejan is a firehose?
16:15:33 <rdococ> oerjan*
16:15:43 <rdococ> in an alternate universe, his name is Øryan
16:16:05 <rdococ> in another alternate universe, his name is Ørjen
16:20:19 <Taneb> Those don't sound like very interesting alternate universes
16:20:31 <rdococ> true
16:21:12 <rdococ> in some other universe, I'm actually useful for something instead of the worthless pile of IRChit I am
16:21:39 <rdococ> I wasn't ever meant to be here.
16:39:10 <rdococ> how about a gate that maps {A, B} to {A xor B, A and B}?
16:39:48 <rdococ> FF -> FF, FT -> TF, TF -> TF, TT -> FT...?
16:40:03 <rdococ> nah
16:40:04 <rdococ> nvm
16:40:08 <rdococ> Actually
16:40:10 <rdococ> wait
16:55:00 <boily> time to phở!
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16:57:45 <rdococ> whatever that means
17:14:28 <rdococ> Does Pokemon R/B/Y count as a programming language?
17:14:44 <rdococ> If we interpret it as one, is it TC?
17:20:22 <rdococ> //
17:23:24 <rdococ> asepotamia
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17:54:49 <quintopia> helloily!
17:55:04 <quintopia> what do of a sat?
17:55:13 <quintopia> rdhellococ!
17:56:10 <rdococ> quintopia: Is Pokemon R/B/Y with ACE TC?
17:56:58 <quintopia> i doubt it!
17:57:33 <quintopia> but i don't know what ace does or how it works
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17:58:22 <rdococ> Arbitrary Code Execution.
17:58:33 <rdococ> It's a glitch which allows you to execute arbitrary code in PKMN R/B/Y.
17:59:57 <rdococ> People have created games like both singleplayer and multiplayer Pong and singleplayer Snake in it, as well as two viruses (the first of which corrupts your game - the only thing you can do then is trade and spread the virus to others, and the second of which brings the Mew truck rumour to life).
18:01:08 <Taneb> rdococ, given that the Game Boy doesn't have unbounded memory, I'd think it isn't
18:01:15 <quintopia> oh i thought you were referring to https://crystalnoel42.wordpress.com/pokemon-for-ace-kit/
18:01:22 <rdococ> True.
18:01:24 <quintopia> the thing you're describing i know as "total control glitch"
18:01:52 <rdococ> But still; is it possible to execute every possible valid combination of instructions, or not?
18:02:20 <rdococ> Even if not, some combinations may be equivalent and the system may be as TC as possible anyway as a result.
18:03:10 <quintopia> Taneb: my issue with it is that you're saying "Pokemon is TC" when what you mean is "8080/Z80 is TC". The latter is obviously true given access to arbitrary memory, while the former seems unlikely to be true
18:04:59 <quintopia> the total control glitch entails writing Z80 instructions into game memory and using a buffer overflow to jump to them. it is not simulating anything on top of the game itself.
18:19:00 <rdococ> Yay.
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18:52:17 <\oren\> I should go watch the Ghost in the Shell movie with Scarlett Johannsen
19:01:42 <\oren\> also people should stop English-washing Romeo and Juliet. Only Italians are allowed to play them!
19:27:27 <zzo38> I suppose Italians would be preferable, although sometimes they might not have that possibility
19:28:02 <zzo38> But if they have good Italian actors to play them then they should, in preference to the English.
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19:43:10 <fizzie> \oren\: The (Japanese) guy they have playing Aramaki speaks Japanese, and everyone else replies to him in English. It's a little odd.
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20:18:18 <Zarutian> does anyone where to find the howto on using contract-of-adhesion against power trip junkies?
20:18:59 <\oren\> fizzie: they're cyborgs, they've got google translate in their heads!
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20:38:27 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51647&oldid=51418 * Serprex * (+52) Mention gas
20:38:56 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Serprex]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=51648&oldid=51647 * Serprex * (+2) Let's use italics, it'll be fun
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21:17:33 <boily> `wisdom
21:17:35 <HackEgo> corkscrew//A corkscrew is a downwards spiral of doom. See mapole.
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22:11:20 <hppavilion[2]> Is content about abstract mathematics which is relevant to Esolangery appropriate for the Esowiki?
22:14:49 <zzo38> Maybe. Describe here on this IRC too I suppose.
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22:51:21 <rdococ> hi
23:00:03 <DHeadshot> It's taken me 10 days but I now have a working XML parser (for a certain type of XML) written in C!
23:00:35 <DHeadshot> After 6 days of bugfixing, I'm now grinning ear to ear...
23:02:49 <boily> DHellodshot!
23:02:53 <boily> rdochelloc!
23:03:04 <DHeadshot> helloily!
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23:04:12 <boily> parsing XML from scratch is a bitch.
23:04:22 <DHeadshot> Yes. It is
23:04:40 <DHeadshot> My code is far from perfect, but it works.
23:04:56 <DHeadshot> It does use GOTOs though...
23:05:02 <boily> and converting stuff between jdom and jdom2 in Java because some legacy stuff makes me angry.
23:05:06 <Taneb> I don't know much about XML in the nitty-gritty
23:05:19 <Taneb> What's the hard things about parsing XML?
23:05:20 <boily> DHeadshot: SACRILÈGE! how dare you!
23:05:24 -!- hppavilion[2] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
23:05:52 <DHeadshot> boily: I had to to break out on certain errors!
23:06:26 <boily> oh. that. that's ok.
23:07:07 <DHeadshot> Saves a lot of repeated code for freeing mallocs...
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23:13:23 <alercah> Taneb: namespaces, etc.
23:13:26 <boily> Tanelle. it's a lot of grunt work for getting it Just Right™.
23:13:34 <alercah> bonjouroily
23:13:35 <hppavilion[1]> Hm
23:13:38 <boily> hellorcah!
23:13:45 <hppavilion[1]> I'm considering abandoning WinAmp in favour of PotPlayer
23:13:47 <boily> hppavellon[½].
23:13:50 <hppavilion[1]> I wonder if this is a good plan
23:14:00 <boily> VLC.
23:14:30 <hppavilion[1]> boily: itym hppavellon[√½] hth
23:14:49 <hppavilion[1]> boily: I've seen VLC because my mother's FWOB watches pirated TV shows with us on VLC
23:14:58 <hppavilion[1]> s/FWOB/FWoB/
23:15:07 <Taneb> alercah, boily I see
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23:15:31 <hppavilion[1]> [They're mostly shows we have legal access to that we want to watch without eating up data]
23:15:52 <alercah> Taneb: also cdata and entities and...
23:15:57 <alercah> XML is frigteningly complex
23:16:28 <hppavilion[1]> hppavellon[√½ ≈ 0.7071067811865476]
23:17:05 <hppavilion[1]> alercah: BURN IT WITH <del>XORRISO</del> FIRE
23:17:37 * hppavilion[1] considers XML to be his archnemesis
23:18:08 * hppavilion[1] like sexps though. sexps are cool.
23:18:12 <quintopia> hmm
23:18:30 <Taneb> {"hppavilion[1]": ["what", "do", "you", {"think of": "JSON"}]}
23:18:43 <hppavilion[1]> Taneb: JSON is OK, but you're using it terribly.
23:18:57 <hppavilion[1]> And I've heard good things about YAML
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23:20:51 <rdococ> hppavilion[/¼]
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23:22:21 <hppavilion[1]> rdococ: hppavilion[4]?
23:22:46 <hppavilion[1]> hppavilion[1:4]
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23:27:28 <rdococ> nah, that was my rendering of square root
23:27:59 <rdococ> x:y = x / (x + y)
23:28:06 <rdococ> Imagine an alien which used x:y rather than x/y
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23:30:43 <hppavilion[1]> `? this
23:30:44 <HackEgo> this is a word
23:31:03 <hppavilion[1]> `? sweet dreams
23:31:04 <HackEgo> sweet dreams? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:31:20 <hppavilion[1]> `? luftballon
23:31:21 <HackEgo> luftballon? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:33:20 <alercah> there are indeed good things to be said about YAML
23:34:40 <rdococ> `? YAML
23:34:41 <HackEgo> YAML? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
23:41:44 <hppavilion[1]> `learn A Luftballon is an experimental weapon first developed by the German military in 1983 designed to scramble fighter jets, causing chaos and starting wars between their enemies.
23:41:46 <HackEgo> Learned 'luftballon': A Luftballon is an experimental weapon first developed by the German military in 1983 designed to scramble fighter jets, causing chaos and starting wars between their enemies.
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2017-04-09
00:20:23 -!- oerjan has joined.
00:39:28 <oerjan> <boily> oerjan has a firehose? <-- helloily. no, this is the channel's firehose. got to have proper fire precautions, after all.
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00:46:15 <boily> hellørjan!
00:46:20 * boily likes fire
00:46:39 <oerjan> O KAY
00:47:09 <boily> `? things boily like
00:47:10 <HackEgo> things boily like? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
00:47:18 <boily> `` ls wisdom/thing*
00:47:19 <HackEgo> wisdom/things boily likes
00:47:23 <boily> `? things boily likes
00:47:24 <HackEgo> Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở. Moreover, cubes.
00:48:08 <oerjan> `slwd things boily likes//s,M,And kimchi. M,
00:48:10 <HackEgo> things boily likes//Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở. And kimchi. Moreover, cubes.
00:48:15 <oerjan> istr.
00:49:42 <oerjan> oh, and poutine.
00:49:59 <oerjan> we may have to split into foods and other things.
00:50:01 * rdococ burns boily
00:51:21 <oerjan> `slwd things boily likes//s,M,Or poutine. M,
00:51:23 <HackEgo> things boily likes//Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở. And kimchi. Or poutine. Moreover, cubes.
00:52:23 <oerjan> . o O ( is there any food boily _doesn't_ like? )
00:56:06 <boily> I don't like the green part in lobsters, and I can't eat mussels.
00:56:17 <oerjan> aha
00:57:54 <oerjan> `learn Mussels are boily's natural enemies. Fortunately he runs faster than them.
00:57:56 <HackEgo> Learned 'mussel': Mussels are boily's natural enemies. Fortunately he runs faster than them.
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01:19:40 <zzo38> I wrote a program to read GEM .ICN files. I almost got it to work now.
01:26:05 <boily> hezzo38. GEM?
01:27:04 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Environment_Manager presumably
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01:27:50 <oerjan> ahis523
01:28:18 <zzo38> Yes, that is what it is
01:28:55 <ais523> hi
01:29:23 <boily> his523.
01:39:45 * hppavilion[2] . o O ( ♫ You might think I'm crazy ♫ )
01:57:53 <\oren\> The ghost in the shell movie was good!
02:05:32 <boily> he\\oren\. is it faithful to the original?
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02:19:07 <Jafet> ghost chicken in the eggshell
02:20:13 <Jafet> on the other hand, the recent animations could be said to be… too faithful to the original
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